http://www.brooklynvegan.com/files/2019/05/DC680_PurpleMountains_MINI.jpg01 That’s Just the Way I Feel02 All My Happiness Is Gone03 Darkness and Cold04 Snow Is Falling in Manhattan05 Margaritas at the Mall06 She’s Making Friends, I’m Turning Stranger07 I Loved Being My Mother’s Son08 Nights That Won’t Happen09 Storyline Fever10 Maybe I’m the Only One for Me
Out July 12
― mizzell, Friday, 17 May 2019 15:34 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvUBbROsXBw
I like the cover art a lot -- are those Egglestons? Because if not, they are some of the most Egglestonian Eggleston imitations I've ever seen.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 17 May 2019 15:49 (four years ago) link
nothing's wrong, no one's askin'but the fear's so strong, it leaves you gaspin'
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Friday, 17 May 2019 16:09 (four years ago) link
I like the cover too. Reminds me of the poster that came with the Natural Bridge.
https://www.dragcity.com/uploads/products/1451/images/533/large_dc101p.jpg
His prophecy of a well-curated instagram account was seemingly foretold in 1996.
― del griffith, Friday, 17 May 2019 16:11 (four years ago) link
That poster brings back memories... I had it hanging in one (or more) of my apartments as a young guy. Is it known who plays on this new LP?
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Friday, 17 May 2019 16:18 (four years ago) link
Is it known who plays on this new LP?
Four-fifths of Woods (Jeremy Earl, Aaron Neveu, Jarvis Taveniere, and Kyle Forester), and Anna St. Louis.
― del griffith, Friday, 17 May 2019 16:22 (four years ago) link
That's from the back of the single, though. There might be more on the LP.
― del griffith, Friday, 17 May 2019 16:23 (four years ago) link
That poster brings back memories... I had it hanging in one (or more) of my apartments as a young guy.
― circa1916, Friday, 17 May 2019 16:35 (four years ago) link
The nod to "Melt With You" in the chorus of "All My Happiness Is Gone" must be intentional, right?
― days of being riled (zchyrs), Friday, 17 May 2019 17:03 (four years ago) link
Huh, it really does sound like "Melt With You"...
DB is looking like a Brett Gelman character
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Friday, 17 May 2019 17:16 (four years ago) link
got a bit of a "Take The Skinheads Bowling" kinda vibe too
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 17 May 2019 17:23 (four years ago) link
I also heard “melt” in the chorus but didn’t bring it up because I want to forget it’s there
― calstars, Friday, 17 May 2019 17:33 (four years ago) link
Is he still together with, whatshername, Cassie? (It’s none of my business, but the video pointedly projects a “lonely old guy” vibe, so made me wonder...)
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Friday, 17 May 2019 17:53 (four years ago) link
Thought I saw Cassie in the video
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 17 May 2019 18:20 (four years ago) link
No one deserves to be called whatshername. But yeah, the whole ol' gang makes an appearance in the "when we last left our heroes" intro footage from the Joos' final show at Cumberland Caverns.
― del griffith, Friday, 17 May 2019 18:29 (four years ago) link
Tour dates this summer! http://www.brooklynvegan.com/david-bermans-purple-mountains-announce-debut-lp-share-single
― del griffith, Friday, 17 May 2019 18:34 (four years ago) link
Good to know (I did that as a rhetorical move, to signal that I don’t presume to be on a first-name basis with these folks)
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Friday, 17 May 2019 18:36 (four years ago) link
Rhetorical devices POX
― calstars, Friday, 17 May 2019 18:41 (four years ago) link
There was an interview with Bob Nastanovich a few years back where he mentioned that Berman had been making "sculptures" out of toys and things he'd found at thrift stores (it's around the 30-minute mark here: http://vishkhanna.com/2015/02/18/ep-165-bob-nastanovich-of-silver-jews/), and the middle picture on the right of the album cover looks exactly like one of the ones he described, so I'm gonna guess these are Berman orginals. Also pretty sure I've seen pictures of him with one or both of those dogs.
Anyway, Bob kind of made it sound like the artwork was inspiring some new songs, and it seems like some of the photos correspond with the tracklist (the second picture is the cover of the All My Happiness Is Gone single, bottom left goes with track 7).
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Friday, 17 May 2019 18:52 (four years ago) link
yeah the plastic dayglo toy sculptures and their mirror-image photos are all over his twitter https://twitter.com/prplmtns
and speaking of mirror-imagery, who knows, maybe "Snow is Falling in Manhattan" is a reference to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QDiST2a0q0
― del griffith, Friday, 17 May 2019 19:13 (four years ago) link
I worry about DB’s mental health but yeah it’s none of my business and as long as he can keep it together I guess he’s ok
― calstars, Friday, 17 May 2019 21:28 (four years ago) link
That’s Just the Way That I Feel is available for download on itunes.
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Saturday, 18 May 2019 00:41 (four years ago) link
From Drag City newsletter:
TOUR DATES:
Sat-Aug-10 Pine Plains, NY Huichica EastSun-Aug-11 Jersey City, NJ White Eagle HallMon-Aug-12 Philadelphia, PA World Cafe LiveWed-Aug-14 Washington, DC Black CatThu-Aug-15 Asheville, NC Grey EagleFri-Aug-16 Knoxville, TN Pilot LightSat-Aug-17 Nashville, TN Mercy LoungeMon-Aug-19 Louisville, KY OdeonTue-Aug-20 St. Louis, MO Blueberry Hill Duck RoomWed-Aug-21 Iowa City, IA The MillFri-Aug-23 Minneapolis, MN Cedar Cultural CenterSat-Aug-24 Chicago, IL Sleeping VillageSun-Aug-25 Chicago, IL Sleeping VillageTue-Aug-27 Toronto, ON Lee's PalaceWed-Aug-28 Montreal, QC La Sala RossaFri-Aug-30 Boston, MA SinclairSat-Aug-31 New York, NY Murmrr TheatreFri-Sep-06 Raleigh, NC Hopscotch FestivalFri-Sep-13 Seattle, WA NeptuneSat-Sep-14 Walla Walla, WA Huichica Walla WallaSun-Sep-15 Portland, OR Wonder BallroomWed-Sep-18 San Francisco, CA ChapelSun-Sep-22 Los Angeles, CA Lodge Room
Purple Mountains Online: Drag City-https://www.dragcity.com/artists/purple-mountainsPre Order-https://www.dragcity.com/products/purple-mountainsStream "All My Happiness Is Gone"-https://ffm.to/purplemountains
― dow, Saturday, 18 May 2019 20:51 (four years ago) link
I met failure in AustraliaI fell ill in IllinoisI nearly lost my genitaliato an anthill in Des Moines
― del griffith, Sunday, 19 May 2019 04:38 (four years ago) link
we're just drinking margaritas at the mallthat's what this stuff adds up to after allmagenta, orange, and acid greenpeacock blue and berberinedrinking margaritas at the mall
we're just drinking margaritas at the mallthis happy hour's got us by the ballsmagenta, orange, and acid greenpeacock blue and berberinedrinking margaritas at the mall
― del griffith, Sunday, 19 May 2019 05:08 (four years ago) link
"all my happiness is gone" is completely stunning.
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 19 May 2019 14:55 (four years ago) link
^ it is.
I got to listen to the whole new album last night, and I'm so pleased with how Woods turned out at his new backing band. So good. They're a natural pairing. I think it's the best the music behind DCB has sounded since American Water. Woods just excellent in their own right too - I only found out about them in the last year and pretty quickly I realized they were exactly the kind of band I'd been looking for. Picking up Pavement's torch actually, as it were
― del griffith, Monday, 20 May 2019 01:35 (four years ago) link
The Spotify page has two other remixes of the single.
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 20 May 2019 02:41 (four years ago) link
Where are people hearing the album? Is it press promos? I'm in no hurry, I've waited this long and can't be bothered with p2p leaks anymore. Just interested if there's label promo money behind this.
― kraudive, Monday, 20 May 2019 02:49 (four years ago) link
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/micheal-sheen-sang-silver-jews-how-can-i-love-you-if-you-wont-lie-down-on-last-nights-the-good-fight/
― mizzell, Monday, 20 May 2019 13:04 (four years ago) link
I think it's the best the music behind DCB has sounded since American Water.
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 03:41 (four years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/david-berman-was-the-cult-musician-who-went-away-for-10-years-what-made-him-finally-come-back/2019/06/03/19735620-77db-11e9-b7ae-390de4259661_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a0300e94ffbb
― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 05:44 (four years ago) link
Really interesting article... I didn’t know a lot of the backstory (or even that Drag City has a “message board”).
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 06:06 (four years ago) link
Yeah, not sure if they meant the Drag City newsletter or what. Also, surprised there's a place to live above their offices -- mostly artist-studio-type spaces without showers and so on.
― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 11:52 (four years ago) link
it's neither, it's the old disc.server board:
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/Indices/18043.html
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 13:26 (four years ago) link
He toggles from the virtues of silence as the most powerful artistic statement, as laid out by Susan Sontag in her 1967 essay “The Aesthetics of Silence” (which he insisted I read before our first meeting), to the virtues of getting banned from websites for trolling (which he admits happened to him)
Odds on Berman posting on here at some point?
― Position Position, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 14:43 (four years ago) link
I don’t get the feeling he necessarily “loves music.”
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 15:23 (four years ago) link
hasnt stopped any of us before tbf
― One Eye Open, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 15:28 (four years ago) link
lol
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 15:44 (four years ago) link
The wapo interview's pretty good. Answers a few questions I had and confirms a few suspicions about the Chicago loft and the separation.
The option of anonymous posting on the disc.server board was one of the greatest things about it in its heyday. Guaranteed daily chaos. That's the board where, late one Friday night around the time of Bright Flight, someone posted David's home phone number. I called it, thinking I could just say I was only trying to alert him to its presence if he was irritated about it, but sure enough he picked up and gave no indication of irritation whatsoever but was in fact totally cheery about it and chatted with me, the lowly internet fanboy, for a good ten minutes, wouldn't let me go even, despite the fact there were all kinds of voices and noises in the background on his end from a party at his house that sounded like it was still going strong.
― del griffith, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 18:06 (four years ago) link
“He liked it when I called Jack White ‘Sir Edgar Scissor Blues.’ ”
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 18:15 (four years ago) link
Is this legit?: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/purple-mountains-lodge-room-highland-park-tickets-61917164907
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 19:00 (four years ago) link
The first thing I thought on watching the "All My Happiness Is Gone", was 'oh no, he and Carrie have separated'
― Duke, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 19:02 (four years ago) link
Cassie not Carrie
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 19:20 (four years ago) link
morrisp -- there are a bunch of tourdates announced upthread.
new album is ... pretty great? still absorbing, but a bunch of really good songs / lines.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 19:26 (four years ago) link
Yes! Sorry Cassie.
― Duke, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 19:29 (four years ago) link
xp Thanks, I missed or glossed over that
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 19:39 (four years ago) link
Interesting how this isn’t sold out in a small Chicago club, whereas Silver Jews would certainly sell out the Metro or Vic pretty quickly.
― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 21:44 (four years ago) link
don't underestimate brand recognition. I doubt Robert Pollard sells anywhere close to the number of records Guided by Voices does. The mid-or-late-career moniker change is a tough thing to navigate (though Sun Kil Moon, Bonnie Prince Billy, and Magnolia Electric Company--to name three off the top of my head--made it work, I guess)
I bet labels hate when established bands / artists / solo acts change their name
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 22:02 (four years ago) link
Yup. I bet 80+% of people who'd pounce on a Silver Jews ticket don't have any idea that Berman is back under this name.
― alpine static, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 22:42 (four years ago) link
We ended up buying tix for that L.A. show (final show of the tour?); I bet it would have sold out already under the Joos name / "back in the day."
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 22:53 (four years ago) link
intentional sabotage?
― calstars, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 00:06 (four years ago) link
Listening to the promo right now, as it happens.
― Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 00:43 (four years ago) link
That's the board where, late one Friday night around the time of Bright Flight, someone posted David's home phone number. I called it, thinking I could just say I was only trying to alert him to its presence if he was irritated about it, but sure enough he picked up and gave no indication of irritation whatsoever but was in fact totally cheery about it and chatted with me, the lowly internet fanboy, for a good ten minutes, wouldn't let me go even, despite the fact there were all kinds of voices and noises in the background on his end from a party at his house that sounded like it was still going strong.
― circa1916, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:39 (four years ago) link
I mean this era was, according to the article, his “crack” phase
Well sure, that is true, but it was also soon after 9/11, which was everyone everywhere's crack and/or some crack variant phase. Besides, I also got to chat with him after the Asheville show in 2006, with all crack and/or crack variants out of his system, and he was still equally cheery.
― del griffith, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 03:07 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZKMa-ByLBQ
― mizzell, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 14:20 (four years ago) link
ok that little thing at the end made me laugh hard
still these videos might be getting a little too real for me
― One Eye Open, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 14:36 (four years ago) link
i laughed when he was sweeping something into a dustpan and then looked up at the camera to deliver the back-up vocal
― na (NA), Tuesday, 11 June 2019 14:37 (four years ago) link
Lol at the Steve McNair action figure.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, 11 June 2019 14:46 (four years ago) link
Kind of a slacker “Ruby (Don’t Take Your Love to Town.”
― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, 11 June 2019 15:41 (four years ago) link
I didn’t think I would enjoy that but it was great! Stone cold deadpan
― calstars, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 16:58 (four years ago) link
not to be all gossip-y but aren't they separated?
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 11 June 2019 17:57 (four years ago) link
The ending is funny, but yeah, not sure how to "take" this particular kind of thing.
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Tuesday, 11 June 2019 19:54 (four years ago) link
I'm struggling to like these two new tracks.
― Duke, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 20:36 (four years ago) link
not to be all gossip-y but aren't they separated?― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 11 June 2019 19:57
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 11 June 2019 19:57
Yes this was one of the revelations from the WaPo interview that saddened me. Maybe not so clear cut
― Duke, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 20:38 (four years ago) link
Vish tackles DCB:
http://kreativekontrol.eone.libsynpro.com/ep-481-david-berman
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 14 June 2019 16:16 (four years ago) link
Thanks Al
― calstars, Friday, 14 June 2019 16:32 (four years ago) link
Refreshing honesty and openness from David there. Nice to hear an interview free from bullshit
― calstars, Friday, 14 June 2019 18:13 (four years ago) link
Yeah its great hearing about his process & approach here
― One Eye Open, Friday, 14 June 2019 18:32 (four years ago) link
The “hundred nights” comment was pretty harrowing
― calstars, Friday, 14 June 2019 18:53 (four years ago) link
loved the bits about songs as architectural instantiationand disturbing (?) lack-of-anxiety about musicians coming up behind him
― sean gramophone, Friday, 14 June 2019 19:33 (four years ago) link
There were a few moments in that interview that straight choked me up. His candor was really touching.
― circa1916, Saturday, 15 June 2019 20:10 (four years ago) link
I like Vish, but sometimes I find him to be a bit of a cringey interviewer. This one worked just right.
― circa1916, Saturday, 15 June 2019 20:11 (four years ago) link
Al, thanks much for posting that. Hard to describe the feeling of hearing his voice crack and bend under the emotional weight of what he's talking about, hearing him re-realize and re-resist his own storyline fever as he speaks, I guess. Amazing.
This was a particularly interesting revelation to me:
"I think that Silver Jews was a very burdensome band name. It confused people, or I never made it clear what I meant by it. I think it was wasn't really until the end that I realized what the proper definition of a Silver Jew would be outside of the context of my music, which would be a Jew that's not a Jew, really. It's the outsiders to the outsiders. It really sucks when you're Jewish from patrilineal descent because you get the last name but none of the benefits of being Jewish. So, you get the marker, but as you know, in Judaism, your mother has to be Jewish. And my mother converted before I was born, but it never really took. So, there aren't different kinds of Jews - I mean, there are, there's Sephardic and Ashkenazi - but Judaism's Judaism and there aren't secondary Jews. There aren't partial Jews. So, a Silver Jew isn't a Jew at all, really. But it conveys belatedness in and of my interest in Judaism, which came very late in life. But in the end I felt alienated for precisely those reasons, from fully dissolving myself from Judaism."
― del griffith, Sunday, 16 June 2019 01:05 (four years ago) link
This is America goddamnit, and I think people should be free to be secondary Jews if they want to, but what the hell do I know.
― del griffith, Sunday, 16 June 2019 01:08 (four years ago) link
"commerce is a purgatory"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BamaU09AdGA
― del griffith, Saturday, 29 June 2019 22:20 (four years ago) link
^ song of the year, IMO
― Auld Drink of Misery (zchyrs), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 13:54 (four years ago) link
name change totally threw me off - got pretty excited when i realised there's a new Silver Jews lp out in 2 days! I bet a ton of people are the same and don't realise this is a thing...
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 14:10 (four years ago) link
It's good! His band (Woods) sounds strong, and he hasn't lost the lyrical magic, imo.
― alpine static, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 15:24 (four years ago) link
another long, detailed profile, this time in the ringer: https://www.theringer.com/music/2019/7/10/20686306/david-berman-silver-jews-purple-mountains-drag-city
― na (NA), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 15:38 (four years ago) link
A few weeks ago I noticed the nine photos on the album cover correspond with the themes of the first nine songs on the album, in sequential order. Track ten, about self-acceptance, can be symbolized by all previous tracks/images together. That kind of thoughtful, subtle attention to detail keeps unfolding with every listen.
― del griffith, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 17:12 (four years ago) link
Perpetua ticked off about him poo-pooing Pearl Jam over on Twitter
― badg, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 17:16 (four years ago) link
who's Pearl Jam?
oh and re: the chorus of Margaritas at the Mall, I guess the lyrics are actually "magenta, orange, and acid green, peacock blue and burgundy," but I actually prefer my initial interpretation of berberine. After all, there's already red representation with magenta, so it just makes sense to get some yellow in there for a more robust sampling of the frozen beverage spectrum.
― del griffith, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 17:20 (four years ago) link
There seemed to be surprisingly few people listed as Interested/Going on the Facebook event for this show around here, so yeah, I think this is likely flying past people at the moment.
― circa1916, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 17:35 (four years ago) link
followed this guy for years and he never bugged me till the past few months. he thinks he knows all!
― alpine static, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 19:48 (four years ago) link
who the hell would ever think Berman would like Pearl Jam?
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 19:59 (four years ago) link
lol pretty dumb that people got up in arms about that quote — it's just him kinda rambling about old legacy artists who keep going and how critics give them a pass a lot of the time.
If critics were harder on the musicians that they love, there would be better songs. But as they grow older and they lose their talent, critics refuse to let them know that and protect them, and they get to the point where they put out music that just isn’t up to the levels where they’ve already been. It must be very strange to live in the world of Willie Nelson or Bruce Springsteen or Pearl Jam. I don’t know what kind of handle they have on their own loss of talent. Obviously Willie Nelson understands that it’s been forty-five years since anyone’s really cared about any song of his, but I feel like I don’t see very much vocational unhappiness. I heard Springsteen was an unhappy person. I don’t know, I haven’t read his biography. But a lot of people in my field should be a lot more unhappy than they are. They go to press with bullshit.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:10 (four years ago) link
it's a good interview though! https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2019/07/08/david-berman-the-aquarium-drunkard-interview/
Thanks NAThat lying on his back / heroin comment tho
― calstars, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:00 (four years ago) link
That’s a weird quote — why would any of those artists be unhappy? (Willie Nelson’s awesome, btw)
― stan by me (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:19 (four years ago) link
Others artists enjoy touring and playing music, they don’t hinge their self-worth on critical assessments or album sales, surely he must realize this
― stan by me (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:25 (four years ago) link
I think he realizes that, because no one in their right mind could possibly dislike Willie Nelson regardless of what they know or don't know about anything he's done in the last generation or two. But I get his point all the same. I think he's just trying to be fair about something that no one really needs to be, because that's just the way he is.
― del griffith, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 23:08 (four years ago) link
https://americansongwriter.com/2019/07/purple-mountains-any-way-you-hear-it/
another interview, I guess he's holding that 3/4 size guitar mentioned in one of the other ones, with the kitsch that decorates his room in the background?
― calstars, Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:42 (four years ago) link
> That’s a weird quote — why would any of those artists be unhappy?
Oh, honey...why assume *anyone* is happy?
― john. a resident of evanston. (john. a resident of chicago.), Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:53 (four years ago) link
xp Interesting piece (he disses Bruce in that one too, lol)
― stan by me (morrisp), Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:55 (four years ago) link
“Whenever a Bruce Springsteen album comes out, you’re always told it’s a return to form; it never is.”
genuine lol
― triggercut, Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:58 (four years ago) link
I’ve really loved his recent interviews, whether I think some comments are otm or not. He’s a guy who spends a lot of time in his head and seems to have no qualms about being totally honest about what’s there. Doesn’t seem to come from a place of bitterness or anything.
― circa1916, Thursday, 11 July 2019 02:35 (four years ago) link
That’s a great way to put it. Yeah he’s always really engaging to listen to, even when he’s off the mark. Like critics who I often disagree with but enjoy reading anyway, he seems to come by his opinions pretty honestly & with some thought.
― One Eye Open, Thursday, 11 July 2019 03:15 (four years ago) link
This is great. 2019 is turning out pretty good for most of my fave sad lad songwriters. Just need a new Destroyer lp.
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Friday, 12 July 2019 10:35 (four years ago) link
Snow Is Falling in Manhattan + Nights That Won't Happen <3
― triggercut, Friday, 12 July 2019 10:47 (four years ago) link
The backing vocals/melodies all across this thing are so nice.
― triggercut, Friday, 12 July 2019 10:52 (four years ago) link
i'm not sure the rest of the album lives up to the singles but it's a good listen overall
― na (NA), Friday, 12 July 2019 14:44 (four years ago) link
like this album a great deal
Guardian review of it today states confidently that 'Storyline Fever' is about Trump which unless I've missed an explanation to that effect seems wildly speculative?
― wot's the tea mum? (not beef again) (DJ Mencap), Friday, 12 July 2019 14:45 (four years ago) link
I spose it is, in as much as it's about publishing and consuming your own fake news
― del griffith, Friday, 12 July 2019 17:43 (four years ago) link
man, between sites and writers posting their reviews and Drag City retweeting, my twitter feed is all Berman today
― alpine static, Friday, 12 July 2019 18:34 (four years ago) link
Was hoping that sonically this would sound a bit more Woods-y. It's hard to figure out what they brought to this tbh.
― Position Position, Friday, 12 July 2019 22:03 (four years ago) link
This is a DB record, not a collaboration. They sound fine in the background. If the Bejar stuff had worked out I’m sure it would have been a different story.
― calstars, Friday, 12 July 2019 22:05 (four years ago) link
They've probably given him his most accessible album. It's easy to imagine it arranged like an earlier Silver Jews album
― PaulTMA, Friday, 12 July 2019 22:24 (four years ago) link
kind of choked it didn't work out with bejar tbh
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Friday, 12 July 2019 22:31 (four years ago) link
I can’t stand Bejar’s voice but I’d pay to hear syntho DB
― calstars, Friday, 12 July 2019 22:42 (four years ago) link
Was hoping that sonically this would sound a bit more Woods-y. It's hard to figure out what they brought to this tbh.they played the music, which is a pretty big part of the record
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 12 July 2019 22:49 (four years ago) link
xp bejar can't stand your voice buddy
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Friday, 12 July 2019 22:51 (four years ago) link
xp sure, but I was hoping they would bring something that sounded a bit more like them. As it is, it's hard to see why it would be them and not some other dudes. No big deal. There are plenty of great Woods records out there.
― Position Position, Friday, 12 July 2019 23:40 (four years ago) link
Don't know this band. What are good Woods records?
― kraudive, Friday, 12 July 2019 23:44 (four years ago) link
Jarvis and Jeremy from Woods brought all the cool guitar parts, all the cool drum parts, all the cool bass parts, all the gorgeous steel guitar parts, all the cool organ textures, the harmonica in Darkness and Cold, the lonesome cowboy falsetto cry in Darkness and Cold, the tranquil horn parts in Snow is Falling in Manhattan, the rousing horn parts in Margaritas at the Mall, the little bit of what I guess you could call "funkiness" in Storyline Fever. They brought everything but David's voice, words, and I guess the chords to the songs. They brought a lot, but still, to focus on just the sound of the record itself is really missing the point when it comes to what I believe is the most thoughtful, most beautiful, most cohesive collection of songs David's ever made.
I mean: "how we stand the standard distance distant strangers stand apart" - are you even kidding me? The fella done outdone himself! And that's not even close to being the best line on the album.
― del griffith, Saturday, 13 July 2019 00:07 (four years ago) link
What are good Woods records?
City Sun Eater in the River of Light does the job for me
― del griffith, Saturday, 13 July 2019 00:08 (four years ago) link
this record would be just as good if it was just D and his guitar.
― calstars, Saturday, 13 July 2019 01:17 (four years ago) link
diggin this a lot. that last joos record was kind of a let down and i was (initially) pretty indifferent to Tanglewood #s. came around on that one though.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 13 July 2019 01:24 (four years ago) link
Eh, I dunno about that. He could've done that if he wanted to, but what's the point? He's my favorite songwriter because of the lyrics, but he's also one of my favorite artists because he's always been so willing to partner with musician friends who are more proficient at their instruments than he is. Like so many others, I only got into him because I became a disciple of Malkmus's style in the late nineties, and then when I eventually found out about how Malkmus had played on this kickass collaboration with an old friend who so clearly eclipsed him lyrically, called American Water, I was blown away. Most all of the Silver Jews recordings, save for a stripped-down singer-and-his-guitar track here and there ("Death of an Heir of Sorrows," and basically "Pretty Eyes"), have been about partnerships with likeminded individuals who were happy to set the physical setting for the words to live in, and that's what's built his cult, so why mess with a winning formula?
― del griffith, Saturday, 13 July 2019 02:26 (four years ago) link
hey man I hear youI mean there may be some nice instrumental passages - that jam on American water for instance - but I thinks he’s a writer
― calstars, Saturday, 13 July 2019 02:30 (four years ago) link
he is! you're not wrong. and Woods are players. and when writers meet players, baby that's a fruitful marriage
― del griffith, Saturday, 13 July 2019 02:34 (four years ago) link
lolsometimes maybe
― calstars, Saturday, 13 July 2019 02:36 (four years ago) link
I think the Woods guys brought *a lot* to this record, both in terms of ideas and in really solid performance. the music sounds more substantive / less secondary here than on any of the Joooooos records.
― alpine static, Saturday, 13 July 2019 04:58 (four years ago) link
which is not to say that Berman didn't bring a lot. lyrics are amazing, and his singing is relatively strong.
― alpine static, Saturday, 13 July 2019 04:59 (four years ago) link
Finally gripped my copy of this yesterday and after spinning it 1.5 times I can tell I’m gonna be listening to it all summer, really really digging it
― One Eye Open, Saturday, 13 July 2019 15:02 (four years ago) link
This is the saddest record to make me feel really happy
― circa1916, Saturday, 13 July 2019 15:11 (four years ago) link
Like a jubilant embrace of the abyss
― circa1916, Saturday, 13 July 2019 15:12 (four years ago) link
nah, he's just playing chicken with oblivion
― calstars, Saturday, 13 July 2019 15:19 (four years ago) link
This is so fucking good. Musically, it picks up all the best ideas from latter-day Joos (Bright Flight onward), but I feel like the music is doing *so much more* of the heavy lifting than on any of those albums; and the extra space that creates allows Berman's beautifully turned words to land with that much more force.
Or, in a nutshell, this:
Snow Is Falling in Manhattan + Nights That Won't Happen <3― triggercut, Friday, 12 July 2019 10:47 (yesterday) link
― triggercut, Friday, 12 July 2019 10:47 (yesterday) link
― Keep poltiics OUT of Dancing!!!! (bernard snowy), Saturday, 13 July 2019 15:27 (four years ago) link
Also I love how "Margaritas at the Mall" takes the apocalyptic dread vibes of "Time Will Break the World"/"My Pillow is the Threshold" and balances them out with an honest-to-goodness chorus
― Keep poltiics OUT of Dancing!!!! (bernard snowy), Saturday, 13 July 2019 15:37 (four years ago) link
You nailed it re: "Margaritas at the Mall." He definitely is channeling the same existential frustration that he did in "Time Will Break the World," but with so much more backbone this time. That song always felt overly lugubrious to me, like trying to hang out with a goth kid in high school who you knew deep down meant well but honestly you were embarrassed to be seen around. "Margaritas at the Mall" at least looks you in the eye when it talks.
I'd disagree that the record is a "jubilant embrace of the abyss." If he'd laid around for another few years further dissolving into stasis and not working on a project, that'd be embracing the abyss. If he'd done nothing with additional chemical assistance, that'd be more chicken with oblivion. This record is him actively resisting the abyss, kind of like what he was going for on Tanglewood Numbers and Lookout Mountain, but without the giddy cutesiness that kinda irked me, and a lot more of the heartfelt twists that drew me in in the first place. This is a proper example of what you get when artists take a generously long time to think about what they want to say before they say it.
― del griffith, Saturday, 13 July 2019 16:19 (four years ago) link
the virtues of getting banned from websites for trolling (which he admits happened to him)
the Heart of a Poster
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 13 July 2019 16:48 (four years ago) link
Apropos of the abortive Bejar collaboration (mentioned in one of the interview pieces linked upthread), it strikes me that "Snow is Falling in Manhattan" would be right at home in the soundscape of Destroyer's Rubies
― Keep poltiics OUT of Dancing!!!! (bernard snowy), Sunday, 14 July 2019 00:51 (four years ago) link
Man I always kinda disliked Destroyer/Bejar but maybe it’s time to re-evaluate.
― circa1916, Sunday, 14 July 2019 02:48 (four years ago) link
he's doing a Reddit AMA in a few hours if anyone wants to ask him if he really stuck his dick in an anthill
― del griffith, Monday, 15 July 2019 18:44 (four years ago) link
dg, could you please post the link when it goes live?
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 15 July 2019 19:20 (four years ago) link
"snow in falling in manhattan" is easily my least favorite song on here. i do think the woods dudes bring a lot of nice elements and playing to this album though.
― na (NA), Monday, 15 July 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link
would if I could! I don't Reddit, personally, all I know is this:
pic.twitter.com/CpSy9etToe— Silver Jews (@silverjews) July 15, 2019
― del griffith, Monday, 15 July 2019 19:29 (four years ago) link
missed it..... here it is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/indieheads/comments/cdjakw/purple_mountains_ama/?st=jy51z8nw&sh=8780bc7c
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 16 July 2019 00:03 (four years ago) link
re: last time he jammed w/ Malkmus
in the studio in Vancouver.Everyone else in the building was enjoying what a fun, funny guy he is; so I couldn't get him to concentrate. Plus the family back home is a constant pull.But we have plans to co-write an album in Albania. That's a far enough awayplace no one will laugh at his jokes and we will get some work done.
Everyone else in the building was enjoying what a fun, funny guy he is; so I couldn't get him to concentrate. Plus the family back home is a constant pull.
But we have plans to co-write an album in Albania. That's a far enough awayplace no one will laugh at his jokes and we will get some work done.
― alpine static, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 00:46 (four years ago) link
and he'll get him to smoke some pot again!
― del griffith, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 00:52 (four years ago) link
Love the idea of Berman playing the stern teacher to Malkmus’ talented but distracting class clown.
― triggercut, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 01:23 (four years ago) link
the pot thing was good, but i especially love Berman being annoyed that SM was making everyone laugh and love him. so good.
― alpine static, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 01:29 (four years ago) link
he didn't express annoyance, mind you. i'm reading into it.
here we go:
I mean this genuinely; without the contempt of critics like you, i would never havethe fight in me to live. thank you. https://t.co/22MODoE1OJ— purple mountains (@prplmtns) July 15, 2019
― alpine static, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 01:34 (four years ago) link
of all the interesting things DCB has said in these recent interviews, the one that stands out to me is that it was a middling P4k review that - at least in large enough part to mention 10 years later - drove him away from music.
― alpine static, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 01:35 (four years ago) link
Wow, just when you thought you could not have any less respect for Pitchfork...
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 16 July 2019 02:20 (four years ago) link
Tbh I'm more impressed when people notice bad reviews and move swiftly on, like Will Sheff did - a brief mention in a single lyric, just enough to register offense, then onto more interesting subjects.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 16 July 2019 02:57 (four years ago) link
I’m not necessarily impressed by that but I get it, and n some level. Middling reviews can be more discouraging than a fully negative review, sometimes.
― One Eye Open, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 03:14 (four years ago) link
I know at least one other musician of Berman’s Stature who stopped after the self-consciousness following a middling Pitchfork review.
Anyway, I’m probably completely off-base, but I had picture: “Snow is Falling in Manhattan” as being about Berman showing up busted in NYC and crashing on Malkmus’s couch.
― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, 16 July 2019 03:27 (four years ago) link
getting mad about a bad review of your music is a good sign that maybe you should do something else
― brimstead, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 03:32 (four years ago) link
Not getting mad so much as getting hurt, especially if it’s psychoanalyzing the musician and not the music.
― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, 16 July 2019 03:36 (four years ago) link
xpost? why would artists be able to separate themselves from criticism? everyone gets upset about being criticized in all kinds of work
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 16 July 2019 03:39 (four years ago) link
uh, I don't know who Will Sheff is, but I'm more impressed by any artist who doesn't mention any of their album reviews in their lyrics.
I wonder how many clicks per week pitchfork would lose if they did away with patronizing aspies by summarizing works of art on a numerical scale.
― del griffith, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 04:27 (four years ago) link
I question my fellow artists desire to read other what other people write about them. I’m not sure how useful reading it is. Maybe I’m underestimating to what extent most musicians are lacking confidence in their work. I don’t know how it’s the same as being criticized for doing shitty work at my office job.
― brimstead, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 04:40 (four years ago) link
I guess it’s impossible to avoid if you’re serious these days, with having to be hella online and all
― brimstead, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 04:41 (four years ago) link
Been digging Storyline Fever over the last few days. The guitar riff that gets repeated throughout sounds a little New Order-ish.
― triggercut, Saturday, 20 July 2019 00:16 (four years ago) link
All My Happiness has a Joy Division-like flavour to it. The bass and the synth
― Duke, Saturday, 20 July 2019 14:48 (four years ago) link
most people lack confidence and don't like being criticized, musicians are the same as anyone else
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 20 July 2019 14:56 (four years ago) link
A comedian I follow sometimes talks about he avoids reading online commentary, because even one negative comment (in a sea of praise) will stick out like a sore thumb — and that’s what he’ll focus on: “Why didn’t that one guy like the show, what’s his problem?” etc. Comedians, as a group, may be even more thin-skinned than musicians... but I am surprised whenever I learn that an artist (of any kind) reads reviews of their stuff. I don’t even get why so many of them use social media at all (especially for those who don’t need to use it for promotional purposes).
― the last Berry La Croix in the work fridge (morrisp), Saturday, 20 July 2019 15:47 (four years ago) link
I am surprised whenever I learn that an artist (of any kind) reads reviews of their stuff. I don’t even get why so many of them use social media at all (especially for those who don’t need to use it for promotional purposes).
I'm just a simple, hard-working philistine who doesn't claim to understand the high-falutin', artsy-fartsy ways of the creative class, but I suspect the main reason that an Artist might be interested to know how someone has interpreted their Art is because Artists, as a group, are mentally ill. This psychological abnormality leads the Artist to believe they are merely ordinary people like you and me, people who are typically interested in sharing their thoughts with other human beings as part of their daily lifestyle.
However, reasonable people of sound mind, such as ourselves, know better. We understand it is more appropriate that the Artist remain cloistered within an airtight bubble of solipsistic purity. There, safe from the contaminating influence of Pitchfork, SPIN, and the various social medias, the Artist must solemnly respect their self-imposed restriction on engagement with the community of Regulars, a community by which they are surrounded, but of whom they are not a part. Only in this way may the Artist's uniquely sensitive impulses be incubated and nourished.
As a result of this sacred sacrifice, we the Art-consumers are guaranteed an eternal wellspring of musical delights borne from the fractured genius of our irregular friends, the Artists. Without it, we would risk a future devoid of the "It's Five O'Clock Somewhere"s, "She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy"s, or the "Honky Tonk Badonkadonk"s that enrich our lives and give them meaning.
― del griffith, Saturday, 20 July 2019 20:29 (four years ago) link
I’m sorry, there seems to be a thick haze of sarcasm obscuring the point you’re trying to make.
― the last Berry La Croix in the work fridge (morrisp), Saturday, 20 July 2019 20:48 (four years ago) link
I think my Pavement buddy is very disappointed he just had to alert me this was David Berman and not a new psych folk bore band. I listened to All My Happiness Is Gone and was meh on it until it turned into a Camera Obscura song. Silver Jews was the show in nyc that broke me on being over going to shows in nyc. They had the absolute worst audience.
― Yerac, Saturday, 20 July 2019 21:28 (four years ago) link
As an artist I go to extraordinary lengths to avoid seeing any reviews or criticism of what I do, and what I do is probably less than 1% as personal & soul-exposing as the average Silver Jews record, I can absolutely see how a bad or lukewarm review could throw his system out of whack
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Saturday, 20 July 2019 21:37 (four years ago) link
As an artist I go to extraordinary lengths to avoid seeing any reviews or criticism of what I do
But do you share your art with your friends and family? Wouldn't their opinion mean more to you than that of someone you don't know personally? If your art is more than a commodity to you, then why would you care about the opinion of someone who treats it as such?
― del griffith, Saturday, 20 July 2019 22:24 (four years ago) link
this is such an absurd conversation, musicians and artists are just people.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 20 July 2019 22:46 (four years ago) link
Regardless of everything else on the subject, I was still bummed out to read that Berman was so negatively affected by that review. Perhaps it's easy to not immediately understand why this gifted lyricist of his stature would have his confidence knocked so hard
― PaulTMA, Saturday, 20 July 2019 22:52 (four years ago) link
― del griffith, Saturday, July 20, 2019 6:24 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
Friends and family are typically not very reliable critics, so their opinions can't always be trusted. Of course your boyfriend thinks you make the best techno; of course your mom thinks your songs are as good as Bob Dylan's. Putting your work out into the world allows you--for better or worse--a relatively more accurate read on your talents. I'm not an artist but I imagine it's similar to the reasons I choose to see a therapist rather than just meeting a friend for a drink to discuss the same things.
― Paul Ponzi, Saturday, 20 July 2019 23:41 (four years ago) link
Is this the Pfork review in question?: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/11916-lookout-mountain-lookout-sea/
― the last Berry La Croix in the work fridge (morrisp), Saturday, 20 July 2019 23:42 (four years ago) link
That review, in retrospect, doesn't seem especially harsh to me
― Paul Ponzi, Saturday, 20 July 2019 23:46 (four years ago) link
Friends and family are typically not very reliable critics, so their opinions can't always be trusted. Putting your work out into the world allows you--for better or worse--a relatively more accurate read on your talents.
OK maybe not family necessarily, but you choose your friends, and if you're choosing friends whose critical standards are wildly different from your own, well then you've really only got yourself to blame if you're not getting from them the meaningful feedback you're seeking. And to another point, I don't know that artists are necessarily seeking an analytical/critical judgement so much as they're seeking to merely share their thoughts, to be heard, understood, and appreciated in the same insightful and empathetic way that they do for others. At least that's how I like "my" artists to think, and I like to think David is one of "mine."
I agree with the second part of this statement!
― del griffith, Sunday, 21 July 2019 00:28 (four years ago) link
Euuuuuuuugggghhhhhhhhh ok I was harsh upthread, really just speaking for myself as I just couldn’t imagine getting miffed in the slightest about some writing by a stranger (sorry more glib). let alone proactively seeking out random negative criticism to help me “improve” my craft or serve as therapeutic in some way... my music is just so fucking personal to me... but I mean, I make instrumental music for my own high standards of listening pleasure and I’m never really in doubt as to whether or not I’m enjoying or not enjoying something I’ve made/am currently working on. Yeah it’s different for music with lyrics and stuff. Maybe some people are just drawn to searching bad stuff out. I know I sound totally crazy and childish, sorry, bye :-(
― brimstead, Sunday, 21 July 2019 00:35 (four years ago) link
I’m 12 years old btw
― brimstead, Sunday, 21 July 2019 00:36 (four years ago) link
It's not. This whole thing has really been blown out of proportion. If I recall correctly, he merely stated in an interview that he had made his best effort for that album and then it just kind of received a middling review. So what! People are allowed to read their own review, feel that what they've created hasn't been fully appreciated, and then not get called a primadonna for offhandedly mentioning it in an interview. If he'd further internalized it and called his next album Pitchshit Mountain, Pissfork Pee, then yeah that might signal some ego issues.
― del griffith, Sunday, 21 July 2019 00:42 (four years ago) link
Uh, no, he didn't just say that he made his best effort and that it received a middling review. He said:
"It got a really average rating on Pitchfork, 6.7, and that really burned me for a long time. I really felt like, wow, I really tried as hard as I could and I really got the message back that maybe I had peaked. And so I decided to walk away from it."
I would say a review being the reason (or the final straw) for David Berman walking away from music for a decade is a pretty big deal! I don't think we've blown it out of proportion. (I also don't at all think he's a prima donna for mentioning it.)
― alpine static, Sunday, 21 July 2019 01:07 (four years ago) link
I mean everyone who's been in a band there's this sort of feeling that creeps in after awhile why the fuck are we bothering with this?
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 21 July 2019 01:25 (four years ago) link
I would say a review being the reason (or the final straw) for David Berman walking away from music for a decade is a pretty big deal! I don't think we've blown it out of proportion.
Alright, well, by all means then, keep talking about it until it's in the proper proportion you want it to be?
― del griffith, Sunday, 21 July 2019 01:49 (four years ago) link
You guys aren’t going to believe this, but I was just out walking and heard a guy whistling that little melody from “Living Waters.”
― the last Berry La Croix in the work fridge (morrisp), Sunday, 21 July 2019 01:56 (four years ago) link
The review isn't THAT harsh, but I feel like it's off the mark, kind of just makes it seem like a poorly produced, half-hearted mediocre collection of songs, when it's way better than that. I love the Nashville-sounding production, and pretty much all the songs are at least really good to great. Suffering Jukebox, San Francisco BC and Party Barge are all-time-great Joos songs in my books.
I do remember not loving it that much when it came out, but I think the record has aged really well, and is way better than most of the stuff Pitchfork hyped in 2008. Sorry, The Mae Shi.
― triggercut, Sunday, 21 July 2019 03:14 (four years ago) link
Not sure this is the case, but if you tell someone who has cleaned up their act that their new music is half-assed...
― ... (Eazy), Sunday, 21 July 2019 04:38 (four years ago) link
I think Berman's reaction makes more sense if you remember just how bad Pitchfork and the media ecosystem that had developed around it were by 2008. Their ability to make or break indie acts with a single review was at an all-time high, but the level of actual engagement with the music in those reviews had ebbed. Dan Bejar registers this same phenomenon in his weird "Grief Point" monologue, speaking about an album that came out the same year as Lookout Mountain and received a similarly lazy and disinterested, pro forma good review from PF:
The message from the critical reception of [Trouble in] Dreams was quite clear: We will not be listening to you any further.
― Keep poltiics OUT of Dancing!!!! (bernard snowy), Sunday, 21 July 2019 10:52 (four years ago) link
(Btw I just looked up the Pitchfork review of that Destroyer record and it's truly pathetic, just a bunch of indie rock horse-trading and market analysis. The reviewer wastes multiple paragraphs drawing parallels between Bejar's career arc and Guided By Voices, a band that his band sounds nothing like, a band that at that point had been broken up for 4 or 5 years. The concluding paragraph tells us "I caught only one pun, two snippets of others' famous lyrics, and two references to other bands" but I guess the writer+editor thought readers of this review would be more interested in William Bowers's parodies of GbV song titles than in knowing, e.g., that one of those famous lyrics is Crystal Waters' "Gypsy Woman (She's Homeless)". I could go on, I won't.
― Keep poltiics OUT of Dancing!!!! (bernard snowy), Sunday, 21 July 2019 11:16 (four years ago) link
I was talking to one of the screenwriters of Top Gun 2 after its Comic-Con panel last weekend. Turns out the guy is a big Purple Mountains fan, believe it or not. He told me he managed to work in a last-minute line for Aging Maverick to say: "I feel the need... the need to speed into the lead suddenly decline."
Anyway, this album is basically unruinable for me, and that's good, because otherwise the sound of that third line being snuck into "Nights That Won't Happen" as an obvious last-minute overdub might've just shot the whole thing down for me like a MiG over the Indian Ocean.
― del griffith, Thursday, 25 July 2019 19:13 (four years ago) link
How does PM come up in conversation with an action movie screenwriter?
― calstars, Thursday, 25 July 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link
Easy, it's all I talk about anymore. Also, he writes rom-coms too.
― del griffith, Thursday, 25 July 2019 19:33 (four years ago) link
Was listening to the album on headphones in a small shop then took them off to hear 'Darkness And Cold' playing on their speakers. Felt nice, can't say that has ever happened before, strange for it to be a Berman-related experience
― PaulTMA, Thursday, 25 July 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link
Paul, you're gonna wanna register that here, I think.
Obscure Singles Heard at CVS
I know "Darkness and Cold" is the single with the video starring Steve McNair, but I hadn't picked up on the "first and goal" football reference in "All My Happiness is Gone" until someone pointed it out to me this morning.
Fittingly, I'm very proud of myself for being the only one I know so far to have discovered the lil reference to Starlite Walker in "Maybe I'm the Only One for Me."
― del griffith, Thursday, 25 July 2019 19:59 (four years ago) link
please don' talk like this on this board or elsewhere. instead, choose not to be an asshole. thanks.
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 25 July 2019 20:07 (four years ago) link
You're right that I shouldn't have used the a-word there, but I do think numerical ratings does a great disservice to the written language. Which is kind of the whole point of a review.
― del griffith, Thursday, 25 July 2019 20:09 (four years ago) link
Excuse me, do! Do a great disservice to it. Heh
― del griffith, Thursday, 25 July 2019 20:10 (four years ago) link
I agree with you on that point massively actually, I think numerical ratings as a default did irreparable damage to music criticism
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 25 July 2019 20:11 (four years ago) link
i give this album 5 bag of popcorn
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 July 2019 20:12 (four years ago) link
and a grape Fanta
― del griffith, Thursday, 25 July 2019 20:20 (four years ago) link
Anyway, this album is basically unruinable for me, and that's good, because otherwise the sound of that third line being snuck into "Nights That Won't Happen" as an obvious last-minute overdub might've just shot the whole thing down for me like a MiG over the Indian Ocean.― del griffith, Thursday, 25 July 2019 21:13
― del griffith, Thursday, 25 July 2019 21:13
I hadn't noticed that. Now I'll hear it every time. Thanks for ruining this album for me forever (joke)
― Duke, Thursday, 25 July 2019 20:30 (four years ago) link
DB albums have always had weird, obvious overdubs. Which is why I find it so strange he left the weak go of the first line of the album.
I agree it's great though.
― kraudive, Thursday, 25 July 2019 21:34 (four years ago) link
Hadn't caught that, thanks for pointing it out! I'm a little surprised I haven't seen anyone note how Snow Is Falling in Manhattan is kind of an extension of "We're trapped inside the song."
Anyway I love this album and I'd say the first five tracks are a perfect album side.
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Thursday, 25 July 2019 21:41 (four years ago) link
Finally listened to this in full... I dig it (natch), and can also see why he used a different moniker this time around; somehow it doesn't feel like a Joos record.
― the last Berry La Croix in the work fridge (morrisp), Thursday, 25 July 2019 22:03 (four years ago) link
Holy fuck.
Just heard from Peyton Pinkerton. I wish it was a sick joke. Our friend David Berman has committed suicide. Devastated beyond words.— Joe Pernice (@JPernicious) August 7, 2019
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:01 (four years ago) link
GODDAMN.
We couldn't be more sorry to tell you this. David Berman passed away earlier today. A great friend and one of the most inspiring individuals we've ever known is gone. Rest easy, David. pic.twitter.com/5n5bctcu4j— 𝕯𝖗𝖆𝖌 𝕮𝖎𝖙𝖞 (@dragcityrecords) August 7, 2019
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:01 (four years ago) link
fuck, awful news
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:07 (four years ago) link
oh no.... goddamn it. what a talent
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:13 (four years ago) link
Fucking hell. RIP
― Simon H., Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:15 (four years ago) link
what the fucking goddamn fuck
― jakey mo collier (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:19 (four years ago) link
Aw man
― The World According To.... (Michael B), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:21 (four years ago) link
:(
― Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:27 (four years ago) link
oh fuck
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:32 (four years ago) link
Oh no
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:33 (four years ago) link
Rest in peace, few as great as him. Felt something so friendly and warm in his voice and words.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:36 (four years ago) link
I was just introducing a friend to his work and life story yesterday. He'll be spoken of long, long after many of his contemporaries are forgotten.
― Simon H., Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:46 (four years ago) link
Damn.
― ☮ (peace, man), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:50 (four years ago) link
wasn't a huge fan but this is such a punch in the stomach after reading a fair amount of the press about this album and the last few years of his life
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:51 (four years ago) link
Just.... man.
― Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:52 (four years ago) link
“Nights That Won’t Happen,” christ
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:52 (four years ago) link
Actual Air is a legit great collection of poetry, and it unlocked Berman's catalog for me -- the only artist in my personal history who's ever done so.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:53 (four years ago) link
terrible newslife is brutal
― The Ravishing of ROFL Stein (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:54 (four years ago) link
Thinking now of his friends, family, bandmates, and how they must be coping or trying to process this.
― Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:54 (four years ago) link
ugh been thinking so much about him the last few months as well, this is awful awful news
― Clay, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 23:56 (four years ago) link
Wow
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Thursday, 8 August 2019 00:13 (four years ago) link
This is a total fucking crusher
― circa1916, Thursday, 8 August 2019 00:14 (four years ago) link
Dammit.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Thursday, 8 August 2019 00:21 (four years ago) link
Awful news. RIP DCB
― badg, Thursday, 8 August 2019 00:23 (four years ago) link
ughyh
― ciderpress, Thursday, 8 August 2019 00:27 (four years ago) link
Horrifying I have no words.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 8 August 2019 00:42 (four years ago) link
oof
― gbx, Thursday, 8 August 2019 00:44 (four years ago) link
wasn't a huge fan but this is such a punch in the stomach after reading a fair amount of the press about this album and the last few years of his life― call all destroyer, Wednesday, August 7, 2019 7:51 PM (fifty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, August 7, 2019 7:51 PM (fifty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Me too.Not many songs better than "Random Rules"
― flappy bird, Thursday, 8 August 2019 00:49 (four years ago) link
yes
― Dan S, Thursday, 8 August 2019 00:50 (four years ago) link
horrible
― cheese canopy (map), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:03 (four years ago) link
fucking hell man. RIP.
― 龜, Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:09 (four years ago) link
with touring scheduled to start next week, it almost feels like he wanted to prove once more that he could still do it before he decided to travel on
― alpine static, Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:10 (four years ago) link
I want to post lyrics but there’s just too many
― badg, Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:15 (four years ago) link
If it is a suicide, I don’t think I’m strong enough to re-listen to his records.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:17 (four years ago) link
SM posted this a few hours before the news broke:
I’m not up on astrology/cosmic slop —is there something up ??cuz a lot of xxxtra bad stuff is happening to friends and also in the 🌎 #hippytwitter— Stephen malkmus (@dronecoma) August 7, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:29 (four years ago) link
Xp yeah same. The new record seemed, if not hopeful, at least comforting in a way. I was looking forward to spending the rest of the summer with it, gradually finding its hidden doors and exploring its secret rooms. Unbelievably sad.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:34 (four years ago) link
this AMA was just a few weeks ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/indieheads/comments/cdjakw/purple_mountains_ama/
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:35 (four years ago) link
Wow. This is so sad. :( I’d really only become familiar with him over the past few months due to this recent release and the surrounding press. He seemed like a very special person. RIP.
― Vape Store (crüt), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:35 (four years ago) link
This fucking sucks
― Heez, Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:35 (four years ago) link
man this is sad. honestly I haven't listened to silver jews in years and years and years and hadn't even gotten around to hearing the new album. Despair is a real thing.
― akm, Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:36 (four years ago) link
"HEADSTONE:
HE WAS CRESTFALLEN UNTIL HE WAS ABLE TO RATIONALIZE IT AS A GREAT MISTAKE"
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:37 (four years ago) link
too horrible to even deal with
― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:37 (four years ago) link
The new album seemed to be about getting old. And this seems vulgar, but they’d just added a date in LA. So right now it’s just a shock for me. Fuuuuuuuck.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:42 (four years ago) link
"On the last day of your life, don’t forget to die..."
made me take the record off the turntable. I'm not sure I can listen to these records for a while.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:43 (four years ago) link
"...something's added to the air, forever"
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:44 (four years ago) link
idk
the ringer interview linked above basically suggested that he was living in absolute hell
― mookieproof, Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:45 (four years ago) link
in an interview a few months ago he said about the album (paraphrasing here) "it's not a cry for help, but something more like my way of offering what help I can."
I understood.
― del griffith, Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:50 (four years ago) link
i just dug out my old CD of American Water, i couldn't make it through the album and had to turn it off.
― Bee OK, Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:52 (four years ago) link
this is very sad. actual air is the only book of poetry i've ever given as a gift. Loved this man's words amd music.
― triple-washed (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:54 (four years ago) link
it's hard for me to imagine how deeply people must experience depression
― Dan S, Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:56 (four years ago) link
Reading that reddit thread and imagining the depth of pain that can’t be eased by such an outpouring of gratitude and affirmation and love.Some darknesses for some people are just indelible, and exhausting.
― The Ravishing of ROFL Stein (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:56 (four years ago) link
I didn’t know about my friend DCB when I wrote this must have been in the air .His death is fucking dark ..depression is crippling.. he was a one of a kinder the songs he wrote were his main passion esp at the end. Hope death equals peace cuz he could sure use it— Stephen malkmus (@dronecoma) August 8, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 01:57 (four years ago) link
fuuuck man it seemed so cool that he was getting out there again in such an auspicious fashion. going to miss the absolute hell out of this guy
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Thursday, 8 August 2019 02:02 (four years ago) link
Many good and kind words here.
https://pitchfork.com/news/david-berman-remembered-by-silver-jews-collaborator-bob-nastanovich-deerhunter-more/
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 8 August 2019 02:07 (four years ago) link
Who knows, but I can only imagine the complete change of daily habits that go with dozens of profiles coming out about your life and your work, getting it right or not, plus everything that goes into starting a tour for the first time in forever. So much pressure and just being out in the world, even with stellar reviews and shows sold out (I had two tix for them in Chicago).
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 8 August 2019 02:36 (four years ago) link
Huh, and related to that, just saw this quoted (by Howe Gelb on Instagram) from a 2006 Pfork Berman interview:
He talked to Pitchfork about his stance on performing in 2005, “I believe that intermittent live performance has cut short the writing lives of touring musicians. If you are making an argument with history you don’t waste your energy and brain cells on sales, publicity, relentless travel, and other adjoining tasks. The less my body moves, the more energy my brain has to write.”
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 8 August 2019 02:46 (four years ago) link
*2005 interview
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 8 August 2019 02:49 (four years ago) link
I wonder if he reached out to, or reconciled with, his dad in some way before the end. I can’t help but think about his dad losing his son.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Thursday, 8 August 2019 03:34 (four years ago) link
oh no, just seen this. that’s terrible. fuck. all those wonderful lyrics.
― Fizzles, Thursday, 8 August 2019 03:50 (four years ago) link
goddam it’s so sad.
― Fizzles, Thursday, 8 August 2019 03:54 (four years ago) link
This is a tough one. Sometimes as I get older I feel an impulse to accept people's suicides, like "Maybe it's ok if someone doesn't want to be alive anymore." But when someone who continued to write so beautifully until the end somehow "doesn't want to be alive anymore" it's especially hard to accept and leaves me at a loss. I guess he suffered a lot and the suffering wouldn't end for him, and nothing about writing beautifully changed that.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 8 August 2019 04:13 (four years ago) link
Heartbroken pic.twitter.com/DuEmHrd1l4— 3 Songs Podcast (@3songspod) August 8, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 04:43 (four years ago) link
i rewatched the Slow Century the other night, on a lark. it's all on YouTube.
Berman's in the background of all that old footage.
also, Bob is just the best.
Bob, DCB and SM forevah
― alpine static, Thursday, 8 August 2019 05:04 (four years ago) link
This is devastating
― flamboyant goon tie included, Thursday, 8 August 2019 05:49 (four years ago) link
Beneath the bitching and the bickeringWhen I try to drown my thoughts in ginI find my worst ideas know how to swim
RIP David Berman.
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 8 August 2019 06:02 (four years ago) link
this is bad :(
i felt like with this new Purple Mountains album he was on his way to become 'our' Leonard Cohen.
― Ludo, Thursday, 8 August 2019 06:29 (four years ago) link
It is a certain hill the one I imagine when I hear the word "hill" and if the apocalypse turns out to be a world-wide nervous breakdown if our five billion minds collapse at once well I'd call that a surprise ending and this hill would still be beautiful a place I wouldn't mind dying alone or with you.
― tashted the milk of human kindnesh - an' it's a lot of Fermillac (fionnland), Thursday, 8 August 2019 07:29 (four years ago) link
man this is terrible :(
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 8 August 2019 07:44 (four years ago) link
Oh no. :(
RIP.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 8 August 2019 07:45 (four years ago) link
I've never really engaged with his work or been particularly motivated to do so, but I'm listening to the Purple Mountains album now and realising I was wrong in that. RIP.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 8 August 2019 07:51 (four years ago) link
RIP
I visited Philadelphia earlier this year and saw the American Water building across the Delaware, which immediately made me think of Berman and that fantastic album. Totally inconsequential but the kind of humdrum revelation that he seemed to be able to capture in his lyrics.
― Captain ACAB (Neil S), Thursday, 8 August 2019 07:55 (four years ago) link
Fuck. Fuck. This really, really hurts.
I feel so grateful for the art he created. His music touched a rarely accessible place in my soul; the way he combined humour, melancholy, truth....his storytelling...while having a distinct, original artistic voice. All of the things I most look for and value about art can be found consistently throughout his work. And his new album...just, one of those records that came along when I was starting to doubt whether music could have the kind of impact on me that it once did, and reminded me that the old feeling is still possible.
He had more knockout couplets and one-liners than any other lyricist I can think of. His lyrics are a constant part of my internal monologue. Like sometimes I'll think of a random Jews lyric and just smile. Thank you, David.
― triggercut, Thursday, 8 August 2019 09:24 (four years ago) link
Ah christ - that's some horrible news to wake to. The P in RIP never made so much sense.
― Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Thursday, 8 August 2019 09:52 (four years ago) link
Nastanovich’s quote in the pitchfork rememberances really hits home: It was enlightening to have such a talented friend at a young age and realize that the talent wasn’t always a blessing.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Thursday, 8 August 2019 10:00 (four years ago) link
real mc recognize real mc
rest in peace to the great David Berman 😞— el-p (@therealelp) August 8, 2019
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 8 August 2019 12:38 (four years ago) link
I have no words for this, really. I was going to see him play on Monday, and was looking forward to it, having never gotten a chance to catch the joos. I'd been listening to the new album a ton since it came out. I don't know if I can listen to it again for a while.
― Auld Drink of Misery (zchyrs), Thursday, 8 August 2019 12:46 (four years ago) link
The dead know what they are doing when they leave this world behind.
A little spooky, as if he had planned it in advance...
― je est un autre, l'enfer c'est les autres (alex in mainhattan), Thursday, 8 August 2019 13:00 (four years ago) link
Definitely. The whole song comes off as foreboding in hindsight:
And as much as we might like to seize the reel and hit rewindOr quicken our pursuit of what we're guaranteed to findWhen the dying's finally done and the suffering subsidesAll the suffering gets done by the ones we leave behindAll the suffering gets done by the ones we leave behind
― pomenitul, Thursday, 8 August 2019 13:02 (four years ago) link
Some of the heaviest lyrics on the album, for sure. I hadn't really fully finished processing a lot of parts of the record (and now it will probably be a very long time before I return to it, if ever), but up until yesterday I'd bean hearing those lyrics as an argument against suicide, an indictment of it from someone who'd been there and only in hindsight understands the magnitude & consequences. Now I feel like a dope for thinking that, like I was grafting an optimistic reading onto it to make myself feel good. I dunno. Today that verse just reads like a blunt statement of fact. Awful.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Thursday, 8 August 2019 13:13 (four years ago) link
I went through the exact same process.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 8 August 2019 13:14 (four years ago) link
Just miserable at this news. My favourite living songwriter, and now he isn't. Sound-magic & richness of all those lyrics. So many ways of being brilliant.
I'd been treating it as an out-the-other-side album, but it wasn't, obviously. Peace to you, DB.
― woof, Thursday, 8 August 2019 13:30 (four years ago) link
I listened to Purple Mountains for the first time this morning. I hadn't realized the whole thing was on Spotify yet. I had heard Margaritas at the Mall first and kinda waved it off. I wasn't really ready to hunker down with David Berman in the excitement of early summer. Oh my god, what a record.
― ☮ (peace, man), Thursday, 8 August 2019 13:44 (four years ago) link
I never listened to his shit, as WORDS WORDS WORDS is not really my preference… but I hung out with him 2 or 3 times, and found him to be very engaging, not in the least sadsack… at the time, I very much hated my boss, and when I was introduced to him and I told him where I worked, he asked me why my boss is such a asshole, and launched into a diatribe about how unpleasant she was…he and got along great afterwards…
― veronica moser, Thursday, 8 August 2019 13:50 (four years ago) link
I hadn't taken the time with the Purple Mountains record until now, sadly, and fuck, it's good. It has some of his best lyrics ever. It has cringey moments too, the way a suicidal person's self-pity often does, where you just want to scream "No! You don't have to see things that way!" but you know that something in their chemistry or their soul just makes it that they can't help it. But the best moments are so good.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 8 August 2019 14:12 (four years ago) link
And yeah, the suicide note aspects are all over it, sadly. He's pretty frank and straightforward about how he came to feel about his life and it's gut-wrenching.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 8 August 2019 14:19 (four years ago) link
why can't monstersget along with other monsters?
― jakey mo collier (voodoo chili), Thursday, 8 August 2019 14:28 (four years ago) link
joining the chorus of people really devastated by this news last night. in a way that no artist/musician passing has hit me since i was 18 or 19.
one of the greatest nights of my life was out-of-nowhere getting guest-listed into the first silver jews tour at 40 watt in athens, while in town on tour for a single night...and just being awash in how great it was. thanks for that, dcb.
― dronestreet, Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:03 (four years ago) link
God he was funnyFrom a David Berman interview I did in 2001. "I don’t expect to be insulted by being told Ryan Adams in the best songwriter in America. Maybe mid-period Steve Forbert B sides sound fresh to some ears. It's just self-pity in rock. These people have no compassion for anybody."
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:11 (four years ago) link
watched the Israel doc which is on YouTube last night, been putting it off for The Right Time and obviously, well, cried and cried and cried
― Clay, Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:17 (four years ago) link
I've never even heard of Steve Forbert before, but just looking at his album covers and song titles that sounds OTM
― ☮ (peace, man), Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:17 (four years ago) link
he is also otm about ryan adams and seems like a very compassionate person in addition to being funny and clever and gifted with sight & the ability to translate the seeing into words for us to enjoy :(
i like when someone can be amusing without being mean and he never seemed mean to me. his father was so mean & cruel that i think it made him aggressively the opposite, afaict. selfish wrt self-destructive habits, but kind at heart? is this accurate?
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:18 (four years ago) link
He strikes me as a guy who possessed a high level of empathy and sensitivity and I think when faced with a brazen and smug lack of empathy (let alone in one’s own family) it can be extremely painful. Everything I’ve read about his father suggests that’s the type of person he is.
― omar little, Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:24 (four years ago) link
people that knew him seem to speak affectionately of himRyan Adams is so thoroughly phony and full of shit, I can imagine it rankled someone who seemed to try to look life in the eye
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:25 (four years ago) link
i totally understand that about him, that is why i was asking to confirm. i don't know the guy personally and there is something about his relationship with his (legitimately terrible) father that struck a nerve w me when i heard it years ago. when one's father is so awful and one is so sensitive, how does one cope? it's a very lonely feeling. idk if he had siblings or not, or if they felt the same way.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:27 (four years ago) link
I remember seeing an interview with the surviving members of joy division where they said they never paid much attention ian curtis' lyrics. Then he killed himself and they realized how much of his suffering was laid bare in those lyrics.I'm having a similar moment listening to the purple mountains album this morning.
Just in the first minute of the first song:"the life I lead is sickening / i spent a decade playing chicken with oblivionday to day i'm neck and neck with giving in / i'm the same old wreck i've always been"
― enochroot, Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:32 (four years ago) link
awful awful news. Back in ‘98, I remember seeing how the spine of the American Water CD mimicked the old Bob Dylan style and laughing at the chutzpah of that move – and then listening to the record over and over and thinking … “Well, fair enough.” I’m thinking now of seeing him play about a decade ago in Denver. When the last song was over, he didn’t go backstage. He hopped down and walked through the crowd, shaking hands and grinning, before cruising out into the Colfax night.
― tylerw, Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:33 (four years ago) link
I don't even really care about Ryan Adams but I hated the sort of "Ryan Adams culture" that existed at his peak, this weird, phony, cold, music-critic driven rockism that felt like a bunch of desperate paleontologists dusting off rocks and bones to find something "real." A certain kind of doucheyness that is not a jock doucheyness but the guy-who-resented-the-jock-in-high-school doucheyness and thinks that the resentment = victimhood = entitlement.
I never met David Berman but he definitely seemed in his public persona and music like the opposite of that, a kind person who was really afraid he wasn't kind enough, a person driven by shame that he never did anything to deserve, who couldn't believe that he was good enough.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:37 (four years ago) link
him, jason molina, vic chestnutt - a whole generation of great songwriters already gone.
― Heez, Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:42 (four years ago) link
Elliott Smith, too...
― flappy bird, Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:48 (four years ago) link
yeah i thought about "farewell transmission" last night
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:49 (four years ago) link
i'm crushed, too, but ... i mean there are lots of great songwriters in that generation still around!
― alpine static, Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:50 (four years ago) link
I'm assembling people to read from David Berman's work outside of the Met Breuer (former location of the Whitney) as an informal memorial gesture. 7pm Thurs Aug 7th. Please spread the word, let me know if you would like to read anything, and check on your friends. #DavidBerman pic.twitter.com/3QiAz2yzqB— Lance Bangs (@lancebangs) August 8, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 15:58 (four years ago) link
(sic: tonight, Aug 8th)
― woof, Thursday, August 8, 2019 9:30 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Yeah it's really painful to realize he wasn't reflecting on past struggles.
― Evan, Thursday, 8 August 2019 16:16 (four years ago) link
Just want to point out that from those recent interviews posted above, it sounds like he was still in touch with his dad, who paid for his treatment etc. I also don’t recall him saying that his dad was a bad father (other than a story about his dad being competitive when they played board games, and “he wasn’t even sorry!” when he beat young David at Sorry).I know that DCB made his shame & hatred of his father’s professional life a structuring part of his own “story,” but I wouldn’t assume that his bad relationship with his father was a two-way street, or that his dad didn’t love him or somehow caused David’s pain through bad parenting.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Thursday, 8 August 2019 16:18 (four years ago) link
As a closing couplet, "If no one's fond of fucking me/Maybe no one's fucking fond of me" is a pretty great/sad/hilarious/heartbreaking one.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 8 August 2019 16:35 (four years ago) link
My favorite moment on Purple Mountains is his "She was, she was" in "I Loved Being My Mother's Son."
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 August 2019 16:36 (four years ago) link
I hadn't listened to Silver Jews in many years, so this didn't hit me the way Elliot Smith, Mark Linkhous, or Vic Chestnutt's suicides did, but having felt the sorrow after those (to this day I find it very difficult to listen to an Elliot Smith album all the way through and haven't been able to watch the documentary either) I know how this feels to those really close to his music. My friend Nick just posted on FB how this underscores how important it is for people to tell those whose art touched them what it means, and I agree, but I also know that in cases like Berman's it can fall on deaf ears, depression is an all encompassing and smothering force, and you often do not hear or accept words of love from others. That said I still shot Eitzel an email saying I was happy he was still around.
― akm, Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:09 (four years ago) link
I know it’s an overstatement to talk about “all” the leading men of this generation, but between the drug toll on the grunge guys and the indie suicides (and Kurt, managing to be both), it is a pretty blasted landscape.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:13 (four years ago) link
Gen X forever skeptical of its own achievements.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:14 (four years ago) link
It was linked earlier, but the Ringer profile from early July is hard to read as a last-days portrait (once you get past the simple comeback-album intro).
https://www.theringer.com/music/2019/7/10/20686306/david-berman-silver-jews-purple-mountains-drag-city
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:20 (four years ago) link
^^ yes, that's a wonderful, heartbreaking piece
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:24 (four years ago) link
After I read that I said to my wife, “I don’t know if he’s going to live much longer.”
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:27 (four years ago) link
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, August 8, 2019 1:14 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
to be fair, the world for guys like Berman has changed a lot since he started releasing records, and not necessarily for the better
― Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:29 (four years ago) link
Yeah, for sure.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:38 (four years ago) link
Yeah, that one was good. Also, I just read this interview, which I guess took place sometime in the last 48 hours?
http://www.citypages.com/music/this-is-one-of-the-last-interviews-with-david-berman/526551471
I had read the SPIN review he refers to as being the worst, including the part about the reviewer doing a bit of projecting, I guess you could say. I also didn't like it, and I thought about bringing it up here, but what's the point of criticizing critics about their criticism of a relentless self-critic. I'd just finished trying to make a point about that upthread, and at this point I don't think it could mean any less anyway.
Self-Ignition, now that was a good song.
https://youtu.be/bISQXWdgRzQ
"...and I have to remember your not wanting me doesn't make me any less here."
― del griffith, Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:38 (four years ago) link
I had some feelings.
https://rockandrollglobe.com/indie-rock/i-dont-really-wanna-die-i-only-wanna-die-in-your-eyes-remembering-david-berman/
― Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:39 (four years ago) link
I was really loving the new album, which despite all the scars had such a glow of tenderness and gratitude to it and it just seems so sad now
― ogmor, Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:55 (four years ago) link
The first 3 or 4 Silver Jews records were (and still are) super important to me, I need to go back and listen to the last two. I've been listening to Purple Mountains a lot and like a lot of people here I was excited about seeing him live, as I never got the chance when the Jews were still going. I remember listening to this a few weeks ago and feeling a little worried for him, though I imagined that the success of the new record might maybe bring him out of it...
http://vishkhanna.com/2019/06/12/ep-481-david-berman/
― pophatte (admrl), Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:57 (four years ago) link
When I told David I was getting married 11 years ago, he asked me for some interesting details and observations about Colette and then just before our wedding day we received an eight-panel Berman cartoon in the post, as a gift for Colette. I'll try and dig it out this weekend. https://t.co/lzxeUrznuD— Andrew Male (@Andr6wMale) August 8, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 18:02 (four years ago) link
disappointed but not surprised he dislikes "Old Town Road" tbh
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 August 2019 18:15 (four years ago) link
very fair criticism of OTR imo
― Vape Store (crüt), Thursday, 8 August 2019 18:33 (four years ago) link
In 2016, we asked David Berman for a quote about the mid-90s early days of Jagjaguwar in Charlottesville. Instead, he sent a loving, hilarious and slyly beautiful poem about UVA football, the early Internet and plant life. Now, we share it with you.https://t.co/JvKfDy65t7 pic.twitter.com/oJnUWHJcwS— JAGJAGUWAR (@jagjaguwar) August 8, 2019
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 8 August 2019 18:38 (four years ago) link
I had some feelings.https://rockandrollglobe.com/indie-rock/i-dont-really-wanna-die-i-only-wanna-die-in-your-eyes-remembering-david-berman/
Raymond, thanks for that. I remember thinking the same thing after seeing him at the merch table after a show in 2006 ("what if, accidentally, we broke him?"), and then deciding that's bullshit. I'm a reserved fella, but if he could sack up for a US tour against his inner will, I could at least sack up to express my appreciation for it. I'm glad I got to.
a kind person who was really afraid he wasn't kind enough, a person driven by shame that he never did anything to deserve, who couldn't believe that he was good enough.
Yes, this. I had the same read on his personality.
I'd been following his blogs since 2011 or whenever, and he'd occasionally post youtubes of songs he liked, always new to me. I held his taste in pretty high esteem, so I'd always give them a few listens even if I didn't like them at first.
This one had to grow on me.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHgYdI1ElMM
This one I liked right away.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYcjW2MOZoI
This one he posted in the summer of 2015 before going dormant for two years. I realize now that when he posted it, it was around the same time he had been taking care of his mother in Ohio while she was dying of cancer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0nO9VXC6lw
― del griffith, Thursday, 8 August 2019 19:01 (four years ago) link
Following some of these links brought me to this long 2008 interview with a lot of interesting stuff in it... worth a read / revisit.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Thursday, 8 August 2019 19:14 (four years ago) link
That Spin review he referenced is by Brian Howe, who’s also responsible for my least favorite Pitchfork review ever, which was a cruel and faintly misogynist takedown of a very good Edith Frost record.
― omar little, Thursday, 8 August 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link
Regarding Cassie I just suddenly had the line "If it ever gets really really bad, if it ever gets really really bad/let's not kid ourselves, it gets really really bad" pop into my head, which is kind of heartbreaking in this new context.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 8 August 2019 19:29 (four years ago) link
Ned, thanks for that. I had to send it to my UVA-grad brother-in-law with a "wahoowah" attached.
I'm not even prepared to let myself start thinking about what this must be like from Cassie's side. I mean, he was well aware that the suffering gets done by the ones we leave behind.
Here's a lighter shade of his apocalypse from 1994:
A drawing David Berman sent me entitled “At The End of the World” after I interviewed him for my fanzine in 1994 pic.twitter.com/JZqLycyRNQ— John Masters (@johnnymetro) August 8, 2019
― del griffith, Thursday, 8 August 2019 20:09 (four years ago) link
Just saw these posted - three long interviews from 2013/2014. Below is the first, the other two are on the same Youtube channel.
"This is an audio-only phone interview I conducted with David Berman in late Dec 2013 when I was working on a book proposal for the 33 1/3 series on American Water. The book was never made but I thought in the wake of his death today that others might like to hear it. He talks about the difficult process of making the Natural Bridge and how American Water was so much easier, his mental health throughout that period, his writing process and more."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqjwDK00rts
― city worker, Thursday, 8 August 2019 20:13 (four years ago) link
If, over the last month, you'd caught me staring into the distance and asked me what I was thinking about, my honest answer would likely be one of the following:
a) nothing. the words 'ceaseless feasts of schadenfreude' are just circling round in my head.
b) the words 'ceaseless feasts of schadenfreude' have been circling round in my head for days - without a melody - and I am part-meditating on, part-wondering at David Berman's pure and precise mastery of the magic of language-sound - how can he work this phonemic hypnosis on me?
c) I'm thinking about about how 'that's just the way I feel' syntactically/formally moves perfectly, really perfectly over those first verses and god the funny/bleak/honest tone; and how I think it falls off a little with that 'I met failure in Australia' section, which almost feels like quotebait - but then he caps it with 'That’s the shit I'm talkin bout/When I talk to you about/Ceaseless feasts of schadenfreude', and that second 'ceaseless feasts' makes it feel like the trap has closed and the joke is properly deadly again.
d) Nothing. The words 'Trotting the sod of the visible with no new word from God' are just circling round in my head.
Anyway I'm drunk and just listening and staying up late.
― woof, Thursday, 8 August 2019 22:21 (four years ago) link
absolutely devastating
― flopson, Thursday, 8 August 2019 22:22 (four years ago) link
Also her last one so far...
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 8 August 2019 22:24 (four years ago) link
this guy sounds like bad company
― triple-washed (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 8 August 2019 23:13 (four years ago) link
the world is and will always be a david berman lyric. i miss you so much, david.— Bill Callahan (@BillCallaman) August 8, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 23:15 (four years ago) link
A great David Berman concept...: pic.twitter.com/GBnIq0flpm— Neil Hamburger (@NeilHamburger) August 8, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 8 August 2019 23:17 (four years ago) link
Thank you, del griffith.
This a great, on point obit from one of our own.
https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/david-berman-changed-the-way-so-many-of-us-see-the-world/?fbclid=IwAR3YFfBibOc9UWb3mv8SgBwFytiD6NdqXnsW-dCwml8xX2wwKHkoEbYDCPA
― Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 9 August 2019 00:21 (four years ago) link
posting a pitchfork link (replete with FB tracker tag) in this thread is pretty crass imho.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 9 August 2019 02:17 (four years ago) link
huh
― flappy bird, Friday, 9 August 2019 04:38 (four years ago) link
pitchfork didn't kill him
― Simon H., Friday, 9 August 2019 05:03 (four years ago) link
Standing room only on the sidewalk outside the Met for David Berman. pic.twitter.com/IO4TH1XHkJ— Brian Heater (@bheater) August 8, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 9 August 2019 05:30 (four years ago) link
need more embedded tweets by indie guys to atone (xp)
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Friday, 9 August 2019 05:33 (four years ago) link
That article doesn't not read like a composite of several of the ones I read yesterday that preceded it
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 9 August 2019 10:50 (four years ago) link
More kind words: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/postscript/david-berman-made-us-feel-less-alone
― EvR, Friday, 9 August 2019 11:30 (four years ago) link
There's something so annoying to me about the new yorker piece. maybe it's in part bc of all of the bad press nyt has been getting lately bc of their constant faux pas's and i am just lazily conflating them and the new yorker, but these days i get almost angry when i see the new yorker's dumb logo and pretentious faux old graphic design etc. wow! shocker that some person has an oblique connection with him from back in the day that they can work into their article about his life and death.
as if I were strolling through a gorgeous museum whose construction I’d glimpsed through a peephole
like wtf. there is that book "miller bukowski and their enemies" (yeah, i know but.) which i think sums it up well... the posthumous adulation for people that one never would have deigned to shake hands with during their creative period or actual messiness of their lives. i'm so sure that the writer gave a fuck or ever thought about him while he was like, living in a literal crackhouse or whatever. but thankfully now he can be packaged safely! i mean, i realize i probably sound like ppl who complained about kurt cobain obits back in the day, but there's something so insulting about it. a comeback from addiction makes money and a death from related issues does too. it's just gross to me. whatever...
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:10 (four years ago) link
"Listening to his songs, I always feel an active wonder."
there are not enough "ughs" in the world!
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:22 (four years ago) link
The New Yorker suxx... not in the same way as the NY Times (whose offenses are worse than mere “faux pas”), but I always regret clicking into & reading a New Yorker “essay.” I guess they still run long, investigative articles that are worthwhile.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:25 (four years ago) link
if i ever felt an "active wonder" listening to something I would ask my gp to up my depends scrip.
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:26 (four years ago) link
GEN X
― flappy bird, Friday, 9 August 2019 15:28 (four years ago) link
yah, and despite my bile i think they have actually gotten much better in the last 2-3 years. but, it's always so jarring to see an attempt to sum up someone's life/death mated w the dumb happy caricature face and other graphic design stuff that i guess is supposed to be super-endearing but to me is just like, borderline-enraging at this point. but whatever. i have issues!
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:29 (four years ago) link
their long, investigative articles remain worthwhile
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:30 (four years ago) link
i have issues!
So do I -- they accumulate on my living room table week after week!
ummm I think y'all are doing some very strange projecting onto that very sweet & mild obit essay but w/e
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:30 (four years ago) link
otm
― tylerw, Friday, 9 August 2019 15:39 (four years ago) link
lol, yes and see my 2-3 yrs thing... their longform stuff has if anything improved in the last couple yrs imo
but
the obit essay bummed me. likely i am strangely projecting. but why should everything be neatly wrapped up into a new yorker obit or pitchfork piece? his life was evidently severely messy, as most of ours probably are upon reasonable inspection, and the tone of her piece rubs me the wrong way.
Berman’s friends were supporting him, caring for him; his record label, Drag City, was, too, even housing him in recent months. His fans were eager for his tour, which was to begin this weekend. We wish he hadn’t suffered; we’re grateful he existed. We loved him to the max.
um, ok? it just seems weirdly antiseptic. i mean i guess I am just bitter for the very fact of him killing himself, and it's spilling over, but i hate the attempt to wrap it up into a neat package by legacy media or whatever.
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 15:45 (four years ago) link
Death, unfortunately, is great PR. But I don't see what makes this piece any worse (or any better) than any of the other mostly identical 15 or 20 I've read over the past 24 hours.
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 9 August 2019 15:50 (four years ago) link
I liked the New Yorker piece and I don't really understand these criticisms.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 9 August 2019 16:06 (four years ago) link
As advanced as we consider ourselves,we still allow ad copy to pander to us.The scam exposed, it endures with our permissionas a parallel narrative running beside our liveswhere we sit with an unbuttered baked potatoand a warm beer in multiple versions of Akronleavened with foreclosure, heartburn and rain.
Great-grandfather’s hobbies, whether they be botany or magic,can barely make sense to a boy named Occupant III.
Their genius was to let us criticize themuntil it became boring and obvious to do so.
Meanwhile they were up ahead, busily constructing a worldin which boring and obvious criticismwas about the worst thing you could do,and when we reached them in time they were waitingwith their multiple Akrons,always one link ahead in the chain of consent.
― del griffith, Friday, 9 August 2019 16:22 (four years ago) link
OTOH I listened to the Kreative Kontrol interview and I found the host's joviality painful--I guess to no fault of his own since it's not like he knew Berman was going to die, but some of his readings of things annoyed me, particularly when he missed the fact that drinking margaritas at the mall is obviously supposed to evoke something depressing, not something "fun"--in fact it's the bad simulacra of fun that makes it especially depressing. I think the host even said something about it being like a "resort"--no dude, it's fucking called "margaritas at the mall"! Not at a resort!
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 9 August 2019 16:26 (four years ago) link
man, don't you just hate it when people are wrong
― del griffith, Friday, 9 August 2019 16:35 (four years ago) link
just seems fucked up in light of the overall thrust of his lyrics and stuff. but whatever... everything sucks, for real.
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 16:58 (four years ago) link
(meant for the people defending the new yorker article).
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 17:00 (four years ago) link
2.4
ayo those are his friends and colleagues, not a gaggle of "indie" (your word) edgelords who deleted their negative tweets/subtweets (in shame?)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 9 August 2019 17:08 (four years ago) link
didn't know his hatred for his dad was so well deserved
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 August 2019 17:19 (four years ago) link
oh totally
― sleeve, Friday, 9 August 2019 17:21 (four years ago) link
There's a lot of love in this, I think:
https://www.caughtbytheriver.net/2019/08/caught-by-the-reaper-david-berman/?fbclid=IwAR3ZYKGgnYaKIFSm3WVPNKIdUrVfInq8biDBIyt2qD6uNDX8tsTjdJR__wo
― djh, Friday, 9 August 2019 18:00 (four years ago) link
I've now read the New Yorker thing and I think it's fine for what it is, but I agree w/del about how it feels a little weird to be summing up the "messiness" of this guy's life in a patly written thinkpiece; especially when he has so many interviews online that you can go back and read to really get a sense of who he was, what he was about, and the stuff he was dealing with. But these third-person essays aren't written for me, I don't need the hundredth piece quoting the lyrics of "People" or whatever; I guess they're intended to bring DCB to the attn. of readers who weren't aware of him (...but even then, in this context, it's like... ok? better late than never, I guess?)
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Friday, 9 August 2019 18:02 (four years ago) link
if i ever felt an "active wonder" listening to something I would ask my gp to up my depends scrip.― dell (del), Friday, August 9, 2019 4:26 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― dell (del), Friday, August 9, 2019 4:26 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
i lold
― cheese canopy (map), Friday, 9 August 2019 18:07 (four years ago) link
also wb dell
― cheese canopy (map), Friday, 9 August 2019 18:08 (four years ago) link
There's a lot of love in this, I think:https://www.caughtbytheriver.net/2019/08/caught-by-the-reaper-david-berman/?fbclid=IwAR3ZYKGgnYaKIFSm3WVPNKIdUrVfInq8biDBIyt2qD6uNDX8tsTjdJR__wo
Thanks for posting this.
― EvR, Friday, 9 August 2019 18:32 (four years ago) link
I hate comparing two albums due to their creators fates, but this really reminds me of Vic Chestnutt’s ‘At the Cut’. Both come from this place of clear pain and oblivion (their word) but they seem to somehow be conquering it through wit and melody
― Heez, Friday, 9 August 2019 18:59 (four years ago) link
*whispers* you dont need a scrip for depends
― gbx, Friday, 9 August 2019 19:16 (four years ago) link
This Nastanovich quote, mentioned above:
It was enlightening to have such a talented friend at a young age and realize that the talent wasn’t always a blessing.
Is easily the most satisfying eulogy to the man I've read over the past couple of days. That Berman would've been so concise in his delineation of human experience (its joy, questioning, confusion, suffering) suggests a hyper-sensitivity that could easily turn a cloudy day into an unbearable tragedy. What comforts me through his passing, aside from the fact that he left behind such a generous and rich body of work, is the hope that, along with the "storms" that his eulogists have repeatedly referred to as defining his life, there was also a balance of equally profound and exquisite joyousness, also. The eulogies I've read on Facebook from friends who had personal relationships with the man suggest that this was the case, story after story about what a delight he was.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Friday, 9 August 2019 19:29 (four years ago) link
thanks map. it fucking sucks and yeah there is projection involved as a given in that we probably all know ppl who have been like, "okay, outta here" and subsequently it always brings up a lot of fucked-up feelings. they say that funerals and other associated rites are for the survivors more than the departed, and so this is my way of honoring him atm. if he was selfish enough to kill himself then i think it's ok for me to be selfish enough to throw a little fit about the state of, what'd i call it up there, "legacy media"? it's all good. i wasn't even a huge silver jews fan but i was a huge fan of what david berman stood for -- to me, in my mind. a sort of demonstrative naked honesty and unwillingness to compromise and a staunch if shocking ability to make (literal!) poetry of it.
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 19:42 (four years ago) link
there was also a balance of equally profound and exquisite joyousness, also. The eulogies I've read on Facebook from friends who had personal relationships with the man suggest that this was the case, story after story about what a delight he was.
otm. I like how Bob Nastanovich always seems to make a point to call attention to DBs humor. We all know his lyrics were wry and funny, but Bob will go out of his way to refer to DB as a "poet and humorist" and things like that. Beyond just "oh yeah he was a real funny guy", making sure he gets credit as someone who worked hard to make people laugh with his work.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 9 August 2019 20:18 (four years ago) link
i’d recommended the new purple mountains album to a colleague last week and as we normally bond over megan thee stallion and suchlike wasn’t sure what she’d think about it... she loved it and did some first listen notes: GeneralLyrics! This man is a poet non? (ed: googled, OK, yes, he is) By turns jaunty/mellow Americana with sad sad sad lyrics. He sounds so lonely.That's just the way that I feel - super, love this song, more poppy than the rest. Can see why you’ve listened to it so much.Snow is falling in Manhattan – “salts the stoop and scoops the cat in” lovely. This song feels like being wrapped up in a blanket in front of a fire which fits lyrics, obv. Feels like someone longing for security and safety. Liked the jarring use of smithereens. Eesh. Shes making friends I'm turning stranger - Any song w tantamount in the opening line = cool. I know it’s about him but I like the way he draws this woman. Smalltown superstar. A bright character. The rest kind of blend together tbh but words! Fond of fuxking fuxking fond of me. Stand the standard distance distant strangers stand apart. Happy hour got us by the balls. Try to drown thoughts in gin worst ideas know how to swim. On the music, I like the shuffly guitar and drums. I don’t know how to describe it. Wooshywooshy softness. doesn’t sound like the words which, if you were to match music to it, would prob sound like screaming in pain.and then next day she was “dave berman died :(“
― Fizzles, Friday, 9 August 2019 20:30 (four years ago) link
if he was selfish enough to kill himself then i think it's ok for me to be selfish enough to throw a little fit about the state of, what'd i call it up there, "legacy media"? it's all good.
Eh, I'd say not really. You're two entirely different people making two very different decisions for two very different reasons. I totally get the point you're making about these hermetically-sealed obituaries to be packaged and sold so people can read about them for 30 seconds and then maybe click on an ad, and it irritates me too, but why let yourself be surprised? If I'm understanding you correctly, your issue is with ad-driven media and isn't at all exclusive to the case of David Cloud Berman.
along with the "storms" that his eulogists have repeatedly referred to as defining his life, there was also a balance of equally profound and exquisite joyousness, also. The eulogies I've read on Facebook from friends who had personal relationships with the man suggest that this was the case, story after story about what a delight he was.
Yep. In the wake of a suicide, it's natural to point to some of the gloomier attitudes in the songs and be like "see! see!" but we're talking about the guy who wrote "I'm gonna shine out in the wild kindness and hold the world to its word." The unwillingness to compromise, the punk principles (the Germs tattoo!) were a huge part of what I liked about him, even if that mentality fueled a lot of his less hopeful perspectives too. Ultimately, I believe he was a self-righteous force for good, as evidenced by the fact that I wasn't the only fan to receive a few of his apparently abundant gestures of friendliness.
― del griffith, Friday, 9 August 2019 20:57 (four years ago) link
I can't help but contrast the dead American Jewish genius with the dead Canadian Jewish genius and note the similarities and contrasts between Berman and Cohen.
First of all I say "Jewish" but it's not actually about Judaism, it's about (firstly) a relationship with spirituality and a desire to capture the infinite, and (secondly) about having zero practical musical talent and seeing that as an asset rather than a burden (and it absolutely is an asset, as a songwriter).
There is the fact that Canadian songwriters are unable to make references to Canadian places-- America is The Place, Canada is not The Place, and so making a reference to Portland or San Francisco is within the territory of the collective human consciousness, but making a reference to Medicine Hat or Quebec City seems comedic, like the songwriter is suddenly in drag and doing a bit.
There is the fact that Berman was a prodigious brainstormer and Cohen was a prodigious editor-- every line of a Berman song was an epiphany or a wordplay more powerful than the entire song of a lesser songwriter, but the lines were seldom effectively unified to a single thesis-- Cohen, on the other hand, was devoted to a thesis, and didn't allow for hairiness or inefficiency, but his songs were not as confounding as Berman's songs were.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Friday, 9 August 2019 21:14 (four years ago) link
xposts Yes, fair enough...
aside from that, I'd been scared to listen to purple mountains over the past day or so but man it's actually a really life-affirming record? to my ears. Like the honky-tonk vibe on the first track only escalates the dude you just need another drink or a nap thing. get out of the metaphorical west and into the actual space away from your mind. is that a crazy reading? it's something like felt's all the people i like are those that are dead. yes! exactly! so taken to its logical conclusion it's like a health powder. be those crystal spires my man
― dell (del), Friday, 9 August 2019 21:17 (four years ago) link
I listened to it today, and enjoyed it; listening felt like the appropriate tribute, and the record did feel more affirming than sad. Though "Nights That Won't Happen" definitely hits you.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Friday, 9 August 2019 21:23 (four years ago) link
It is life-affirming. It's a beautiful work of art. It's a gift to us. Its very existence affirms the life-time spent making it. This is easy for me to say because I wasn't a personal friend of his, and I don't know for a fact that he died on his own terms. But I suspect he did. And just because someone dies on their own terms doesn't mean their life was meaningless, or that they didn't enhance other peoples lives while they were here.
I feel the album can be safely summarized by these lines from the first track:
A setback can be a setup for a comeback if you don't let upbut this kind of hurting won't heal.The end of all wanting is all I've been wantingand that's just the way that I feel.
You don't have to be Ian Curtis's former bandmates to retroactively read that the way it was intended.
I will miss more songs from him, constantly.
― del griffith, Friday, 9 August 2019 21:38 (four years ago) link
been feeling the comforting intention of Snow is Falling in Manhattan
― triple-washed (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 9 August 2019 22:22 (four years ago) link
different kind of sadness but this reminded me of another dead canadian genius
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 9 August 2019 22:28 (four years ago) link
these hermetically-sealed obituaries to be packaged and sold so people can read about them for 30 seconds and then maybe click on an ad
I gotta say, I really dont get the characterization of pieces like that NYer obit as being crass commercial clickbait cash-ins? Surely there are more popular and clickworthy things that could have taken up that space than a personal essay-obit on a marginal poet-songwriter who probably didn't sell 20k copies of any single album? Like whatever your criticisms of that piece might be, clearly the writer was a huge fan and had an honest connection to him & his music and wanted to express something about it. Whether she did his life & work justice or not, she obviously wasn't sitting thinking "I've gotta quickly churn some uplifting words out about this ultra-minor-celebrity to get those newyorker.com pageviews up to our weekly quota!"
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 9 August 2019 22:37 (four years ago) link
I get that people feel protective of him but it's not exactly like post-Cobain vultures feasting on his legacy. A lot of writers had a strong enough connection to his music taht they felt compelled to write something, and in the 24hrs they had to turn around a piece some hit the mark better than others but I dont think anyone is getting rich off of David Berman obits this week.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 9 August 2019 22:38 (four years ago) link
Of note:
Patiently waiting forever for the album made by Berman, Bejar and Malkmus, which Berman rejected on completion.— Judy MillerSilverman (@motormouthmedia) August 9, 2019
I recall seeing it on the Dropbox I share with the studio and thinking I shouldn’t listen to someone’s unfinished album. There is a code there.— Carl Newman (@ACNewman) August 9, 2019
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 9 August 2019 22:40 (four years ago) link
Yeah that’s pretty wild — is it the same songs as on the purple mountains LP or other stuff entirely?
― tylerw, Friday, 9 August 2019 22:44 (four years ago) link
excellent posts from fgti
― budo jeru, Friday, 9 August 2019 22:55 (four years ago) link
“Diamonds in the Mine” feels in some ways like the ur-text for Purple Mountains.
― ... (Eazy), Friday, 9 August 2019 23:44 (four years ago) link
Pulled up my 2008 tour diary tonight. From the week opening for #SilverJews pic.twitter.com/3H7m0aOjmT— Ryan H. Walsh (@JahHills) August 9, 2019
― ... (Eazy), Friday, 9 August 2019 23:55 (four years ago) link
I really dont get the characterization of pieces like that NYer obit as being crass commercial clickbait cash-ins?
Just to clarify, I haven't read it, but I don't have a problem with it. I was just responding to dell's grievance about the alleged tone of this eulogy piece in particular by saying that I can empathize with the frustration of having to see these sorts of things under these sorts of circumstances in general ("hey, someone died, so here's a tribute").
― del griffith, Saturday, 10 August 2019 00:02 (four years ago) link
thanks del griffith for yr post upthread (I should change my name if I keep on posting!)
speaking for myself, yeah, yah i don't think it's like, reflexx quickbait but it's irritating nonetheless. maybe none of us know how to best write about the recently departed but for whatever reason that piece just seemed like an empty and fairly depressing neoliberal exercise. but whatever. that's just one dell's take.
― dell (del), Saturday, 10 August 2019 00:16 (four years ago) link
I hear ya. If one doesn't make a living stringing together words for people to read, then one would have no reason to rush to put out some words for sale about someone suddenly departed. The things you've said in the past, and everything that will eventually be written about them anyway, should be good enough for now.
(I think you were here first, so that'd be on me! I'm probably due for a name change/message board resignation anyway if I'm getting emotionally invested enough to interject myself into conversations about issues that I believe deep down are pointless)
― del griffith, Saturday, 10 August 2019 00:34 (four years ago) link
the double del of heat
this song never needed that pre-chorus anyway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_xumPRwjxA
― del griffith, Saturday, 10 August 2019 00:37 (four years ago) link
aw man, that is a good song.
postscript of sorts, i recently took a trip out west and stopped at an antique store in antelope valley w my girlfriend. the proprietor was otherwordly charming and warned us that there might be flash floods coming over the mountains before we walked in. she was really beautiful. she had some eighties-era country music blasting throughout the store and now I wish I had followed up on my my thought of asking her exactly what it was! It was all one artist, one cd (she was old school that way) but it was very much like the tune you posted above. The funny or not-so-funny thing is, ever since that trip i have been wanting to listen to country music before, during, and after. Whether Beachwood Sparks pastiches or Waylon late night songs. The landscape hit me hard, it was right on that part where nevada slants and you can be in California in an instant. This country is insanely beautiful. Damn.
― dell (del), Saturday, 10 August 2019 01:32 (four years ago) link
Berman really helped 20 year old me from the south who always associated country with authority and conservatism appreciate country again. just picked up a george strait record at an antique store recently!
― Heez, Saturday, 10 August 2019 01:39 (four years ago) link
(unrelated xpost!) and also I was doing a dad visit so no doubt I had some berman-esque thoughts in my mind.
I guess where I stumble is trying to grasp where MAGA-esque chuds get by in that environment. When I am out there I feel absolute awe. I dunno where the gross guns and other stuff comes from.
― dell (del), Saturday, 10 August 2019 01:44 (four years ago) link
Interesting enough, my family is planning a trip to Williamsburg, VA where he was born. I wonder if there's a local record store around there or something.
― Piano Mouth, Saturday, 10 August 2019 01:45 (four years ago) link
Listening to The Arizona Record for the first time in forever and it's inspiring to recognize the leap from, say, "The Wild Palms" to, I dunno, "I Remember Me" or [your favorite song].
― j.o.h.n. (john. a resident of chicago.), Saturday, 10 August 2019 04:04 (four years ago) link
The NY Times obit has been updated with some details about his death (and a statement from his father). For those who are interested.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Saturday, 10 August 2019 07:35 (four years ago) link
Despite it coming back in print recently, his collection of poetry is still hard to get at the moment. It’s here:https://www.poemhunter.com/i/ebooks/pdf/david_berman_2012_3.pdf“Self-Portrait at 28” is particularly special imo
― circa1916, Saturday, 10 August 2019 07:41 (four years ago) link
thanks for that
― Clay, Saturday, 10 August 2019 07:43 (four years ago) link
Despite it coming back in print recently, his collection of poetry is still hard to get at the moment.
As these things go, there was a statement on Twitter the other day from a publisher (PGM? PGB?) that there will be a reprint soon.
― EvR, Saturday, 10 August 2019 08:27 (four years ago) link
from the updated nyt piece:
A spokeswoman for the city’s medical examiner said that Berman had hanged himself, and ruled it suicide.
― je est un autre, l'enfer c'est les autres (alex in mainhattan), Saturday, 10 August 2019 12:00 (four years ago) link
I mean, we had been going under the reports that it was a suicide this whole time, but that still hurts to read. Suicides by hanging are also particularly sad for me.
― ☮ (peace, man), Saturday, 10 August 2019 12:21 (four years ago) link
somehow i had thought he had overdosed, hanging is indeed somehow a terrible way to go, one part being when the corpse is discovered.
― je est un autre, l'enfer c'est les autres (alex in mainhattan), Saturday, 10 August 2019 12:35 (four years ago) link
I have had three friends kill themselves in the past ten years and they all hung themselves.
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 10 August 2019 15:16 (four years ago) link
probably common knowledge among berman fans, but i didn't realize that (according to the intro to the PDF posted above) the final silver jews concert on jan 31, 2009, in the cavern, consisted of Berman's "15favorite Silver Jews songs." here is that set:
We Are RealPlay VideoTrains Across the SeaPlay VideoHow to Rent a RoomPlay VideoSlow EducationPlay VideoK-HolePlay VideoWhat Is Not but Could Be IfPlay VideoThe Wild KindnessPlay VideoRoom Games and Diamond RainPlay VideoSuffering JukeboxPlay VideoI'm Getting Back Into Getting Back Into YouPlay VideoRandom RulesPlay VideoTennesseePlay VideoWe Could Be Looking for the Same ThingPlay VideoPretty EyesPlay VideoSmith & Jones Forever
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 10 August 2019 16:00 (four years ago) link
jfc i hate the internet. it copied and pasted a bunch of "play video" links. but you get the idea.
play video
This may not be for everyone and I haven't seen it linked, but I think this is very lovely.
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/remembering-david-bermans-wild-kindness-869252/
― Yerac, Saturday, 10 August 2019 16:04 (four years ago) link
wow Smith & Jones Forever is my favorite SJ song too!! ;_;whenever my brain is idle i keep thinking about "the wild kindness"
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 10 August 2019 16:15 (four years ago) link
grass grows in the iceboxthe year ends in the next room
― JoeStork, Saturday, 10 August 2019 16:32 (four years ago) link
it may be to dcb’s credit as an enigmatic poet or the fault of my aging brain that for exactly one second I thought “which b side was play video and why did he feel the need to use it as a refrain”
― Clay, Saturday, 10 August 2019 17:46 (four years ago) link
video of 6 songs from that Cumberland Caverns show - the last SJ show:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9CD0D43454C6F5DF
You get a few glimpses of William Tyler on guitar, and Bob drums on Trains Across the Sea, then says a few words to the audience. Berman also tells a funny story related to the pipe organ and chandelier in the cave.
― alpine static, Saturday, 10 August 2019 17:48 (four years ago) link
the fact that this was - presumably? - filmed for the Bluegrass Underground TV series gives me hope that pro footage of the entire show may someday be released. maybe?
― alpine static, Saturday, 10 August 2019 17:53 (four years ago) link
So may I turn a light off and embraceWith resignation, better still with grace,The dreamless sleep that all awake must face.
― meaulnes, Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:41 (four years ago) link
Sleeping, it has been said, is the only love.
― del griffith, Sunday, 11 August 2019 01:59 (four years ago) link
Thank god these songs are warm and fun when music gets added to all these lyrics.
― ... (Eazy), Sunday, 11 August 2019 03:44 (four years ago) link
Would be oppressively dark without it, yeah.Since the song was released, have found myself idly singing the chorus to “all my happiness is gone” under my breath while just doing stuff around the house. Only half the time aware of how absurd that is.
― circa1916, Sunday, 11 August 2019 04:33 (four years ago) link
Me too :/
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Sunday, 11 August 2019 04:57 (four years ago) link
same
it's an insanely catchy song. i know it's a direct rip of a new wave song i can't remember the title of right now, too, but as with all DB songs, the lyrics lift it completely beyond that
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 11 August 2019 05:04 (four years ago) link
I Melt with You, but only kinda
― circa1916, Sunday, 11 August 2019 05:20 (four years ago) link
yea
― flappy bird, Sunday, 11 August 2019 05:24 (four years ago) link
I sang the chorus of darkness and cold while pushing my 1 year old on the swing today.
― triple-washed (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, 11 August 2019 06:03 (four years ago) link
and I sang it entirely bc it is stuck in my head
― triple-washed (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, 11 August 2019 06:05 (four years ago) link
That’s the other one I have in my head a lot... I assume the perverse catchiness of those particular choruses, with those particular lyrics, is “intentional.”
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Sunday, 11 August 2019 06:40 (four years ago) link
The scale of the outpouring of grief/celebration/tributes is amazing
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Sunday, 11 August 2019 08:34 (four years ago) link
― Heez, Sunday, 11 August 2019 13:30 (four years ago) link
https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68531872_10216588647761308_7097629298558763008_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQln2ofPKXAXxY3dmuQpoINKQ8xNY8b1lkTTZrBLgK7YPSR4SUsRkFTBqG6VhL6Lwrg&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-1.fna&oh=c0066a3ab431fda1fd6168950a775f48&oe=5DE4500D
― Cow_Art, Sunday, 11 August 2019 14:51 (four years ago) link
A friend used to hang out with David back in Virginia and wander abandoned foundries with him. This pic was when he was in a band called Doom, with an infinity symbol instead of the o's.
― Cow_Art, Sunday, 11 August 2019 14:53 (four years ago) link
amazing!
― tylerw, Sunday, 11 August 2019 15:02 (four years ago) link
Was his hair new wave or human error?
I was traveling with my family in Savannah last week when the news about David came in. I stayed up late that night, drinking whiskey and listening to his music on shuffle in the dark. Throughout the trip we were driving around, seeing the deep south through car windows and it was a good fit. So many words hit harder than they used to.
Last night I rewatched Silver Jew and it was tough going, especially the end when he is praying and crying.
Listened to Starlight Walker on repeat flying back home. It's the album I've always neglected because I like the singer-songwriter stuff more than the Pavement sounding jams. But it clicked this time and I really enjoyed it. Lookout Mountain is my favorite though. I came to the band late in the game and never understood why that album isn't as beloved as others. Candy Jail is so great.
― Cow_Art, Sunday, 11 August 2019 15:05 (four years ago) link
oh my god, that's awesome.
― ☮ (peace, man), Sunday, 11 August 2019 15:05 (four years ago) link
which is he -- the dude on the far left?
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 11 August 2019 15:08 (four years ago) link
yep. that pic is awesome, and thanks so much for the context and story, cow_art.
i am sitting here listening to my own neglected D.C.Berman album, Tanglewood Numbers. i recently found it on my record shelves, miscategorized, away from the others, and didn't even realize i owned it! it's a special gift this morning
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 11 August 2019 15:21 (four years ago) link
Good album. Small problems, but I recently started buying vinyl again and had a couple SJ albums in my list of things I absolutely need to have. I imagine they'll be backordered for quite a while now.
― ☮ (peace, man), Sunday, 11 August 2019 15:54 (four years ago) link
Yessir, that's a heavy scene to say the least. Says a lot about the steel of the filmmaker that we even got to see it. I don't know that I would've been able to breach that highly personal (figurative) wall by getting my camera so close to him during the wailing, but I guess he was cool with it.
Heavy scenes like that one are balanced out by lighter ones in the beginning, like when he's asking the pet shop owner for a chewable menorah.
― del griffith, Sunday, 11 August 2019 16:16 (four years ago) link
As much of a fan as I am, have never watched "Silver Jew". Will have to rectify that soon.
― Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 11 August 2019 16:18 (four years ago) link
It's worth your time, for sure. This scene even has a ski vest button-style convenience store mirror in it.
https://j.gifs.com/2x1yAN.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zVzxausyPo
― del griffith, Sunday, 11 August 2019 16:43 (four years ago) link
That pic of D♾M is fantastic, thanks a lot for sharing. (I feel like I know the guy in the middle somehow, like he was a camp counselor or something, but I guess lots of guys looked like that.)
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Sunday, 11 August 2019 17:38 (four years ago) link
Don't know the name of the guy in the middle. The guy on the right is Rob Chamberlin. I think Rob and David were Doom. Not sure if the other guy had anything to do with the band or if they were just hanging out together.
Silver Jew was hard to watch with hindsight, not because it is inherently depressing. He was actually at a pretty good place in his life then.
― Cow_Art, Sunday, 11 August 2019 18:40 (four years ago) link
it's an insanely catchy song. i know it's a direct rip of a new wave song
Listening for the first time in weeks (and really enjoying it after days of just reading lyrics quoted), I noticed how the synths really are separated from being just a signifier of 80s top-40 pop. They sound live and part of the band, rather than an imitation of or homage to the era when they were a commercial necessity.
― ... (Eazy), Sunday, 11 August 2019 18:40 (four years ago) link
do we think we can try to figure out the bands for the two setlists on the wall behind the guys in that Doom pic?
― alpine static, Sunday, 11 August 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
my guess for the one on the left is True Believers - I've never heard them but they have songs called:
MarianneHard RoadLucky MoonFoggy NotionShe's GotWho Calls My Name
they are also from Austin and Club Dada on the poster next to it is in Dallas - could be the set list is from that gig?
― Colonel Poo, Sunday, 11 August 2019 19:03 (four years ago) link
The keyboards are essential to the sound: I love the Mellotron on "She's Making Friends, I'm Turning Stranger" (reminds me of similar passages in Bowie's "Big Brother," oddly), for example.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 11 August 2019 19:37 (four years ago) link
This is the Twitter feed of Silver Jew director Michael Tully, scroll down a bit for some remembrances:
https://twitter.com/tullstoy
― Position Position, Sunday, 11 August 2019 21:47 (four years ago) link
I like the way that WaPo piece dwells on Tanglewood Numbers; I agree that album occupies a special place in the SJ discography.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Sunday, 11 August 2019 22:14 (four years ago) link
Am I the only person whose favourite album is bright flight?
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 11 August 2019 22:27 (four years ago) link
No, I am a huge Bright Flight fan. Maybe his most depressing but I love it. The opening of Horseleg Swastikas ("Drunk on a couch in Nashville") might be my favorite Berman moment. Also, I'm a sap, so there is a 50-50 chance I tear up at I Remember You.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Sunday, 11 August 2019 22:50 (four years ago) link
How long has American Water been out of print? I just checked and it seems to be going for crazy money on eBay and doesn't seem to have any sellers (of any format) on discogs at all. How can this be? This album was everywhere!
― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:22 (four years ago) link
I noticed the same with Actual Air back in May -- the '99 Open City/Grove Press printing was going for $55 used online (now $275, though a 2019 reprint also is now out).
― ... (Eazy), Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:31 (four years ago) link
Bright Flight is my second favorite, about The Natural Bridge.
― Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:31 (four years ago) link
"after"
lol and to think I bought my paperback copy of Actual Air for $2 in the remaindered section of the campus bookstore in late '09.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:32 (four years ago) link
How long has American Water been out of print? I just checked and it seems to be going for crazy money on eBay and doesn't seem to have any sellers (of any format) on discogs at all. How can this be? This album was everywhere!― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, August 11, 2019 11:22 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, August 11, 2019 11:22 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Not out of print, afaik. Just that everybody bought the entire stock last week.
― ☮ (peace, man), Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:47 (four years ago) link
Caution to anyone clicking on circa1916's poemhunter link upthread! It's full of poems from a David Berman other than our David Berman.
$2 is a tough price to beat. Free is also good, but you know if they could, they'd sell the Air.
I'm so happy to still have my '99 Open City Actual Air, even though the pages are stiff from being waterlogged in some long-forgotten beverage that spilled on it some night many nights ago. I lent my little hardcover reprint edition out to some girl named Deborah that I hung out with twice in 2003, and now I'm starting to worry I might never get it back.
― del griffith, Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:48 (four years ago) link
Deborah F from Manhattan Beach, California: if you're reading this I hope you at least read the book, you scoundrel!
― del griffith, Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:52 (four years ago) link
Oh are there bogus poems in that link? My bad.
― circa1916, Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:54 (four years ago) link
It's cool. We were warned of impostor Davids. The premonitions never ceased with the guy.
http://mentholmountains.blogspot.com/2019/05/fyi-other-david-bermans.html
― del griffith, Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:58 (four years ago) link
cvilleweekly also had some nice memories.
https://www.c-ville.com/words-music-and-wit-indie-rock-icon-david-berman-touched-local-lives/
― Yerac, Monday, 12 August 2019 00:03 (four years ago) link
That article is good, though this is an odd remark (at least given the circumstances):
And of that Purple Mountains record, Hlad says, (...) “It’s so personal, and so revealing. It’s like Blood on the Tracks, but a much better record. And I’ll stand on Bob Dylan’s coffee table and tell him that.”
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Monday, 12 August 2019 00:46 (four years ago) link
Well, at least when he did it, it was funny.
e.g. "NIRVANA: BUSH:: REAGAN: BUSH"
― del griffith, Monday, 12 August 2019 00:59 (four years ago) link
Kind of a riff on Steve Earle’s old line “Townes Van Zandt's the best songwriter in the world, and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that.”
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 12 August 2019 01:07 (four years ago) link
Ah, I didn’t know that reference.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Monday, 12 August 2019 01:08 (four years ago) link
no wonder dylan gets so grumpy, look at this shit his coffee table has to deal with
― Karl Malone, Monday, 12 August 2019 01:24 (four years ago) link
and i'll stand on bob dylan's coffee table and look him in the eye and say that
Lookout Mountain is probably my favorite and most listened to, but I feel like Tanglewood & American Water are definitely his twin masterpieces, everything you need to know about him & Silver Jews is in those records.
The night before news of his death broke, I saw a gig by NYC antifolk/cartoonist guy Jeffrey Lewis and bought one of these delightful SilverJewsLand prints that he was selling, framed & hung it in my kitchen as soon as I got home. Woke up the next morning, saw the news, and thought I cant handle looking at this over morning coffee every day and took it right down. Maybe someday it'll go back up but I dunno when.
I'm envious of people that have been able to listen to the albums since his death, I just dont feel like I'll be able to handle engaging with any of the material for a while.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Monday, 12 August 2019 01:25 (four years ago) link
many, many xps but the other gothy guy on the right in that old UVA pic is Rob Chamberlain who I met when he was working at Strand Books shortly after he was replaced by Mark Ibold as bassist in Pavement.
He's one of the many obscure members of Pavement that not many people know of, others being early drummers Jeff Doyle, Kelly Hensley & Jason Fawkes (all early drummers).
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 12 August 2019 01:39 (four years ago) link
Wow, I’ve never heard of any of those guys. When were they members — like before Steve & Spiral even recorded with Gary?
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Monday, 12 August 2019 01:45 (four years ago) link
The early Pavement show I saw (at the Uptown bar in Minneapolis) had a drummer both the door and making toast.
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 12 August 2019 01:47 (four years ago) link
*both working the door
This is Rob's band, they were great live... much better than this. They were at the time contemporaries of the Silver Jews & Pavement if you could believe that lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WId0rLAItJo
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 12 August 2019 01:51 (four years ago) link
Those other guys were Stockton dudes who drummed on the early stuff (not to say Gary didn't either, but Gary was more of the engineer in the very beginning but sort of became the drummer by default). I think Perfect Sound Forever was the first Pavement record where the lineup was just SM/Spiral/Gary.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 12 August 2019 01:53 (four years ago) link
I remember reading somewhere that Scott had a different band called “Pavement,” and wondered if there was any bleedover.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Monday, 12 August 2019 02:03 (four years ago) link
Yeah, Scott's ASU band was named Pavement briefly (in '87):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyXheS4UcAEeGkU?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 12 August 2019 03:33 (four years ago) link
2/3rds of The Silver Jews (Hazel Figurine & DCB) at Steve Keene's studio in 1991 circa Dime Map Of The Reef:https://i.imgur.com/peWdS9I.jpg
In Portland, late 2018 post Bejar-sessions:https://i.imgur.com/OMwrp2Z.jpg
one of DCB's last short form broadcasts (trigger warning: embedded "indie" tweet):
"Albania..." pic.twitter.com/zGf3msItmi— purple mountains (@prplmtns) July 27, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 12 August 2019 04:11 (four years ago) link
This scanned interview from 2003 is really good.
“Out of James Tate and Charles Wright I got to meet grown dignified men who play with fucking words all day. They gave me permission to believe I could try for that in life.”
Back in 2003, as a grad student at @EmersonCollege I got to interview David Berman for Beacon Street Review (now @redividermag). I could not believe someone so talented (Actual Air from @dragcityrecords is actually perfect) would say yes, but he did: https://t.co/MOtQa6EfYo— Kathleen Rooney (@KathleenMRooney) August 12, 2019
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 12 August 2019 16:27 (four years ago) link
Re the American Water talk up above, I was surprised by the prices it's going for as well - even the CD copy. I could have swore I had a copy, but I guess I never did upgrade my old cassette. Hopefully Drag City gets more in some day soon. I also never got around to getting Tanglewood either and it's out of stock.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 12 August 2019 16:44 (four years ago) link
just dug up a copy of Minus Times from 2003 with a Berman poem called "The Irish Space Program."
― Heez, Monday, 12 August 2019 17:29 (four years ago) link
I vaguely remember that one. It was from around the same time as "The High Numbers." https://believermag.com/the-high-numbers/
If you want to post it here, I for one would be much obliged.
― del griffith, Monday, 12 August 2019 17:38 (four years ago) link
I'll have to transcribe it later when I'm less busy, but will do. A friend of mine got a story published in the same one.
― Heez, Monday, 12 August 2019 17:49 (four years ago) link
David Berman, “The Irish Space Program,” published in the Minus Times. pic.twitter.com/iilqtWUTq9— William Boyle (@wmboyle4) August 8, 2019
― Number None, Monday, 12 August 2019 17:50 (four years ago) link
go raibh maith agat!
― del griffith, Monday, 12 August 2019 17:55 (four years ago) link
drag city eulogy up
https://www.dragcity.com/news/2019-08-12-call-me-from-albemarle
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 12 August 2019 18:58 (four years ago) link
I stopped by Amoeba earlier; the Silver Jews section was entirely cleaned out (no copies of Purple Mtns, either).
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Monday, 12 August 2019 19:45 (four years ago) link
Snow Falls in Manhattan is just so warm and wonderful, A writer's song. The hopeful heart of the album.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 00:44 (four years ago) link
xp from the 2003 interview linked above:
”The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock” is like the “Stairway to Heaven” of twentieth-century poetry.
so this is a knock and not a compliment then ?
― budo jeru, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 01:01 (four years ago) link
Just now from Lloyd Cole.
You know the father. You know that haircut. He spent almost 40 years tilting against it, and we can be thankful for the spoils. It clearly wasn't all fun for him. I was a big fan. Recently, I was really happy to find that he enjoyed my stuff, too.— Lloyd Cole (@Lloyd_Cole) August 13, 2019
DB told me that the time he was in Dallas, which inspired my favourite of his songs, they were listening to Rattlesnakes. Neil and I will figure a way to play Dallas on this upcoming tour.— Lloyd Cole (@Lloyd_Cole) August 13, 2019
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 01:51 (four years ago) link
Another remembrance, from one of the publishers of Actual Air:https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2019-08-12/david-berman-appreciation-thomas-beller
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 05:06 (four years ago) link
the setback can be a setup for a comeback line is apparently from a self-help book.
https://www.amazon.com/Setback-Setup-Comeback-Willie-Jolley/dp/0312267738
― ☮ (peace, man), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 15:36 (four years ago) link
that la times thing is like thomas-beller-appreciation-thomas-beller
― adam, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 15:46 (four years ago) link
i'm having such a laugh listening to joos. so many funny moments. the seagulls and horns on 'party barge'. i still can't really stomach purple mountains, but my god, what a swan song.
― meaulnes, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 18:09 (four years ago) link
my ex bandmate would sometimes play SJ albums - after picking up bright flight just because he liked the cover art, he became quite the fan. i'd listen casually, though somehow DB mostly flew under my radar all these years. i guess you can't always discover everything. i clicked on this thread last week as ned posted the news, but i didn't scroll to the most recent post -- i only saw the record cover. i thought that it looked like a cool album, and got listening - then read the news. i've been rinsing the catalogue since; reading poetry, his reddit ama, email screenshots, and i already feel so familiar - not to mention inspired. the songs are so effortless, simple, so much fun. he seemed so charismatic for a deep introvert. i hope actual air is reprinted.
― meaulnes, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 18:17 (four years ago) link
the setback can be a setup for a comeback line is apparently from a self-help book
Ah, good catch! He at least made it his own by grafting on the "if you don't let up" part, which allows the whole line to pass a google purity test, technically.
This reminds me, sometime around 2002 I was reading "The Wild Palms" by William Faulkner, and I happened upon the phrase "actual air" on page 161.
and now he knew it was not the same deer because he saw three at one time, does or bucks he did not know which since they were all antlerless in May and besides he had never seen one of any land anywhere before except on a Christmas card; and then the rabbit, drowned, dead anyway, already torn open, the bird, the hawk standing upon it - the erected crest, the hard vicious patrician nose, the intolerant omnivorous yellow eye and he kicking at it, lacking it lurching and broadwinged into the actual air.
I emailed David to ask if that's where he borrowed it from, and he said he might've, but if he did it wasn't intentional. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the fact that The Arizona Record had a song called "The Wild Palms" can probably be introduced as evidence.
― del griffith, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 18:41 (four years ago) link
Hey Del G., do you remember what year we saw him give a reading at St. Mary's?
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 18:55 (four years ago) link
xp I always assumed the title "The Wild Palms" had something to do with the TV series which aired a few months before The Arizona Record came out; but I guess a Faulkner novel seems like a more likely source.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 18:56 (four years ago) link
that reading at Saint Mary's must've been 2002? 2003? I'm having no luck googling for a trace of it.
How have I never heard of the 1993 teevee Wild Palms? It sounds totally badass!
In the United States in the year 2007, the right-wing "Fathers" dominate large sections in politics and in the media. A libertarian movement, the "Friends", opposes the government, often making use of underground guerrilla tactics. The Fathers' leader is California's Senator Tony Kreutzer, who is also the leader of the religious sect "Church of Synthiotics" (similar to Scientology) and owner of the "Wild Palms" media group. Kreutzer's TV station "Channel 3" is about to start a new television format, "Church Windows", which creates a virtual reality on the basis of popular shows like sitcoms, using a new technique called "Mimecom".Harry Wyckoff is a successful patent attorney on the brink of becoming a partner in the legal agency where he works. He has two children with his wife Grace, a perfect housewife who also moonlights as a boutique owner: 11-year-old Coty, who has just been cast for the new "Channel 3" series, and the ever-silent 4-year-old Deirdre. His mother-in-law is the impossibly chic socialite and interior decorator Josie Ito, a woman of strong will and numerous connections. At night, Wyckoff is plagued by strange dreams of a rhinoceros and a faceless woman who has palm trees tattooed on her body.
Harry Wyckoff is a successful patent attorney on the brink of becoming a partner in the legal agency where he works. He has two children with his wife Grace, a perfect housewife who also moonlights as a boutique owner: 11-year-old Coty, who has just been cast for the new "Channel 3" series, and the ever-silent 4-year-old Deirdre. His mother-in-law is the impossibly chic socialite and interior decorator Josie Ito, a woman of strong will and numerous connections. At night, Wyckoff is plagued by strange dreams of a rhinoceros and a faceless woman who has palm trees tattooed on her body.
― del griffith, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 19:20 (four years ago) link
Lol, I think I watched that entire show and was very into it, but my recollection is quite vague (I.e I had to click the link to even recall it).
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 19:32 (four years ago) link
Snow is Falling is so comforting tonight. I still haven't processed this and how sad am I about someone I never met.
― kraudive, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 20:34 (four years ago) link
I started a trip the morning I heard the news. Just digesting now from home. Lots to read in this thread, for which I'm grateful.
― Duke, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:11 (four years ago) link
the penultimate verse of snow is falling, the "songs build little rooms in time" one, struck me as being too perfect to exist when i first read it on the lyric sheet, it just hovered an inch above the paper. A couple of days later it was still beautiful but a lot more concretely sad.
Yeah party barge is a riot, i feel like if i had ever made a silver jews c90, i would bookend it with that and silver pageant off starlite walker. the joos gave you the full emotional spectrum.
Does anyone have the DCB's favourite chords insert that came with (i think) Bright Flight (or maybe tanglewood numbers?) I spent many happy hours mangling away inchoate SJs numbe
― cw, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 22:16 (four years ago) link
...rs to that. i think it said "put your fingers on the polar bears noses" if anyone has it and could scan it i would be eternally grateful.
― cw, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 22:18 (four years ago) link
That's the insert with Lookout Mountain... I can't scan right now, I'm afraid.
― Duke, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 22:25 (four years ago) link
I noticed he gave the chords on the lyric sheet to the songs on the Purple Mountains album. But sometimes they were not quite right. And he wrote "Fm7" for F7.
― Duke, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 22:27 (four years ago) link
― del griffith, Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:41 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
This reminds me of when I was visiting a friend in Virginia and happened to see her utility bill from the water company - it was called American Water! Probably not a coincidence.
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 22:36 (four years ago) link
https://img.discogs.com/HgdHH9lZGaEu2jlOPsqqE3pHY2k=/fit-in/600x591/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1367600-1507365157-1699.jpeg.jpg
https://img.discogs.com/CSbDMz2oMcyCQrq2ZovRug1880s=/fit-in/600x598/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1367600-1507365156-5316.jpeg.jpg
― ☮ (peace, man), Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:00 (four years ago) link
(via discogs)
silver chords via discogs via peace, man
thank you!
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:15 (four years ago) link
wait what's the significance of that chord chart?
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Wednesday, 14 August 2019 02:31 (four years ago) link
― cw, Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:16 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― cw, Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:18 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Duke, Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:25 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 02:45 (four years ago) link
aha, ty
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Wednesday, 14 August 2019 02:50 (four years ago) link
thanks a million, peace, man
― cw, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 07:59 (four years ago) link
yeah XX3210 is an Fmaj7 not an Fm7
this is the chord mentioned by DCB as being the one ("looks like a staircase") that he identified as being his chord (cf. the opening of Dallas) in those amazing Paula Crossfield phone interviews xxxxxxp thread
it does have a kind of weirdly minor feel in that voicing though (say vs. X8109108 or 1X332X)
― linee, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 09:01 (four years ago) link
Yeah, I see he means Fmaj7. Just knew Fm7 sounded wrong and an F7 sounded fine, e.g. on That's The Way That I Feel.
― Duke, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:41 (four years ago) link
Yeah thanks peace, man -- hadn't ever seen that before. And it just occurred to me there's a good chance I learned Fmaj7 from playing Trains Across the Sea when I was first learning guitar.
Looking forward to a time when I can listen to the Purple Mountains album again without feeling completely gutted. I did tell my therapist to check out Storyline Fever today though.
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link
A last interview and remembrances from Will Oldham and a few others:
https://www.leoweekly.com/2019/08/remembering-david-berman-leader-silver-jews-purple-mountains
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 15 August 2019 00:44 (four years ago) link
From Oldham's tribute:
It was in recent weeks, David proposed that he, Bill Callahan and I tour together as the ‘Monsieurs of Drag City,’ with all three of us on stage trading off songs.
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 15 August 2019 00:46 (four years ago) link
From Oldham's tribute:/It was in recent weeks, David proposed that he, Bill Callahan and I tour together as the ‘Monsieurs of Drag City,’ with all three of us on stage trading off songs./
― circa1916, Thursday, 15 August 2019 03:11 (four years ago) link
that would have been amazing
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 15 August 2019 05:47 (four years ago) link
it is tough to get me out of the house sometimes. i would logroll down valleys for that show
yeah i woulda driven cross-country for that, basically my dream show
― Clay, Thursday, 15 August 2019 06:11 (four years ago) link
In That's Just the Way That I Feel, is he pronouncing 'gin' with a hard G? It sure sounds like it to me and kinda reminds me of 'gime' from Send in the Clouds. Does he have other purposeful mispronunciations in his work?
― ☮ (peace, man), Thursday, 15 August 2019 12:48 (four years ago) link
https://youtu.be/MdNeRgPKfOI33:00 inBob Nastanovich tells a pretty funny story about how he and Berman heckled Nirvana at NYC before they blew up.
― circa1916, Thursday, 15 August 2019 15:52 (four years ago) link
*At a NYC show
― circa1916, Thursday, 15 August 2019 15:53 (four years ago) link
He was a notorious heckler in his Nashville years.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 15 August 2019 16:09 (four years ago) link
haha, "Sub Pop destruction!" I'd heard tell of the night David yelled upstage to Krist "you look like a dork up there!" but I didn't know it escalated like that. Dollar budweisers at the grocery store afterwards, so perfect. That's almost as good as Bob's recollection that Kim and Thurston's phone number was 212-219-2658.
by the way, that story reminds me of David getting the cops called on him for throwing a CD at Frank Black's head in 1994:
"I remember years ago I got into a fight with Frank Black backstage at a concert. It was right after 'Starlite Walker' had come out... It was after his second album came out and I liked that. I had gone backstage to ask him to produce something of mine and he'd been this total bitch, you know I hate people who treat you with contempt who're like 'who the fuck do you think you are coming backstage into my dressing room?' and such and so what I'd done was I'd taken the CD and had brought it to give it to him to listen to and I like just went phssssss..." David takes a Josh Rouse CD off the table and imitates throwing it. "Right at his head like a Chinese throwing star and it went tchhhh and kinda glanced off the top of his forehead and his manager just freaked out and called the police and was like 'I want this man arrested for attempted assault on Frank Black, and I was 'oh god, bullshit man!' I was like, 'you're such a pussy, Frank Black, you're gonna have this guy arrest me for that? Come on.' So they handcuffed me and took me out to the police car. All the bouncers in the club and the police were like, 'god this guy's been...' they probably were basically saying behind my back, 'this guy's a fucking complaining New York Jew' you know, bitching da da da and they finally came back and said they'd decided not to press charges."
― del griffith, Thursday, 15 August 2019 17:55 (four years ago) link
Here's his obituary in The Tennessean, published yesterday.
O to be a fly on the wall at that tangle of nicotine swans to be held in Nashville at a later date.
― del griffith, Thursday, 15 August 2019 18:02 (four years ago) link
Omigosh, that frank black story is awesome. Also love the Josh Rouse reference...
regarding the nicotine swans, i felt like i should have gone to the thing in new york at the former whitney site last wk but like a, i felt horrible last wk and didn't feel much like "going out" and b, it's always weird or even vaguely horrifying to go to things like that and see these ppl who are other versions of yourself? i.e. i'm sure that most of the middle-aged white guys who were in attendance are lovely ppl but i'm not enlightened enough yet to look into that sort of mirror.
― dell (del), Thursday, 15 August 2019 18:43 (four years ago) link
That’s a very good obituary that captures him well.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Thursday, 15 August 2019 19:21 (four years ago) link
https://youtu.be/MdNeRgPKfOI
33:00 in
Bob Nastanovich tells a pretty funny story about how he and Berman heckled Nirvana at NYC before they blew up.
― circa1916, Thursday, August 15, 2019 11:52 AM (four hours ago)
I just listened to Bob's interview and I think this is that show: https://youtu.be/YGsVdq0a12E
You can hear the dork/jock exchange after Krist whines about his bass becoming unplugged at 12:50.
― city worker, Thursday, 15 August 2019 20:35 (four years ago) link
Bob mentions Tanya Small in the interview, but (more obscure band member trivia) she was actually in The Silver Jews under the pseudonym Spill Fantauzza on additional percussion.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 15 August 2019 20:40 (four years ago) link
You can hear the dork/jock exchange after Krist whines about his bass becoming unplugged at 12:50.― city worker, Thursday, August 15, 2019 4:35 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― city worker, Thursday, August 15, 2019 4:35 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
omg thank you for finding this, incredible. I love that you can hear SM echoing "dork!" there as well.
(Side note, never been a nirvana fan so honestly wondering - is krist joking/goofing with that whole whiny routine? "You said you were gonna tape my cord to the wall and you DIDNT, you said you were gonna DO it, and it came unPLUGGED! You should hire an electrician to put in new receptacles!" Even a nun would be tempted to heckle a dork like that.)
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Thursday, 15 August 2019 20:53 (four years ago) link
xp: Hold on, that doesn't appear to be correct. "Spill" is Jill Fantauzza. According to Bob, Tanya Small plays on either Dime Map or Arizona Record.. but does not show up on the credits. He says "my roommate Tanya plays on the first singes" in an audio interview, but in print he says his roommate "Jill" plays on Dime Map.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 15 August 2019 21:01 (four years ago) link
Nice Slacks interview from '92, I bolded some relevant passages:
The following was conducted during a soundcheck at the Khyber Pass Pub in Philadelphia on July 30, (1992).
NS= Nice SlacksSS= Spiral StairsBN= Bob NastanovichMI= Mark IboldGY= Gary Young
NS: Mic's over here, it looks like this thing is working...Alright, how much beer do you generally drink before a show?
BN: Four to eight
SS: It depends on the alcohol content of the beer. Here, beers are like, 3.2 percent, so probably on average, six. Other places...
BN: six to twelve.
SS: ...they're heavier.
BN: We prefer watery domestics to the bitter ales.
SS: I like a few stuff cocktails before the show, too. It gets me going a little better.
BN: See, I don't drink hard liquor. Scott does. He's smoother. He likes small, sour drinks.
NS: And Gary, of course, likes anything.
BN: Gary drinks whatever you put in front of him, it doesn't have to be alcohol, he's just always thirsty.
NS: You think you'll ever be in _Sassy_ magazine?
BN: I hope so! I don't know. That would be great! I've only read one.
SS: We're only gonna be in _Sassy_ magazine if we can pose with Rebecca Odes, of Love Child. NS: And what's the deal with this "Beverly Hills 90210" fiasco? [According to the __East_Coast_Rocker_, Scott and Bob beat up Jason "Brandon" Priestly]
SS: Well, you'd have to ask Bob that question.
BN: Absolutely true. NS: Then that really happened?
BN: It's been blown way out of proportion, it wasn't really that big of a deal.
NS: Give us the real story. Fuck the _East_Coast_Rocker_ version!!
BN: It was actually like a tryout in Los Angeles to be on the program. They didn't tell us exactly what we were gonna do if we made it onto the show, but it was a tryout. Hypnolovewheel was there, and a couple other bands sort of on the same fame level as us. And we went in there and we were a little nervous 'cause we were playing in this...kind of a fancy production studio type of place. We had to come in there and set up all our equipment and we were all by ourselves. It was sort of an intimidating atmosphere and we got drunk, just beer drunk...
NS: That's a really new thing for you guys.
BN: (chuckling)...And this...Luke Perry and Jason Priestly were just hanging out, figuring this is a way for them to check out the fresh, new indie sounds in this country. We didn't really try to talk to 'em or anything like that, we just...we were hoping they wouldn't come off as like, snotty or pretentious, and they didn't really, we didn't really give 'em a chance. I thought the way they treated Scott was a little bit unneccessarily unfriendly and I was just in a tense mood...
NS: What'd they do to Scott?
BN: I sort of, I shook the guy's [J. Priestly's] hand...They were just treating him like he was...they were treating him without respect, just kinda like, "Who is this slimeball, rock guy from Northern California," or something like that. So I just took a friendly swing at the guy and I wasn't intending to hit him-- I was just like, "Man, wouldn't it be fuckin' cool..." I went up to Scott and said, "Wouldn't it be outrageous, or how much would you give me if I punched the guy in the mouth?" (laughter)...And Scott said, "Twenty Bucks," so I went over there and...I mean I would hit you as hard on the arm as I hit his mouth and you might go, "Ow," but it wasn't as hard as I could hit him, it was a sucker punch. And I cut my knuckle a tiny bit on his tooth...
NS: Yeah, you showed me the scar last night.
BN: It's actually almost gone. It's just a little dot now, but that's the cool part, as I did scratch my knuckle on his tooth and it did bleed, but he laughed it off a like he new I wasn't trying to hit it hard. It wasn't an ugly situation at all.
NS: Oh, so you didn't physically assault him, as the magazine said.
BN: No, no. Well, technically, yes. I could have gotten in big trouble...
NS: But screw technicalities!
BN: Right! Well, see, the thing is when yr dealing with somebody on that fame level, then you don't wanna fuck around with that at all, but the fact that I got away with it...I just basically blew it off as not a big deal and then it just bacame a big rumor. You know, it was funny, the way it's been blown out of proportion. I mean, I've been congratulated more for that than anything else in my life! And I have nothing against the guy...I've seen his program two or three times. I don't enjoy it--to me it's just kind of vague. I don't understand the world that's portrayed on the program. That's basically the story. (laughs) Sorry to disappoint you! I know you were expecting something like "It was a good, hard hit!"
NS: You could have at least knowcked his teeth out!
SS: [returning from talking with the soundman] Oh, you guys are still talking about "Beverly HIlls 90210!"
NS: Scott, how did you meet steve?
SS: I met Steve at this...Well, when we were kids I took disco lessons (laughter) and I met Steve...this girl I was taking disco lessons from, it was his neighbor, so we hooked up that way.
NS: How old were you?
SS: I think I was about 10 or 12.
NS: What made you decide to form a band?
SS: Well, the very first time I saw, um...what band was it? I can't remember their name, but they played at the Stockton Civic Auditorium and...Oh, it was the Doobie Brothers! [I stare at him in shock] You know, have you ever heard of the Doobie Brothers?
NS: [amazed] Uh, yeah.
SS: Yeah, the Doobie Brothers. (laughs) I'm just joking with you!
NS: Thank God! For a second there, uh...
SS: No, the reason we started a band was-- See, Bob was out here on the East Coast and we were on the West Coast and Steve and Bob have this ongoing rivalry. And Bob and Steve have been in bands before, like when they went to school together...
BN: [chanting in the background] Ectoslavia! Ectoslavia! Ectoslavia! Ectoslavia!
SS: What was the other band?
BN: The Hammer Twins
SS: Hammer Twins. Anyway, it started as a rivalry...'cause Bob kicked Steve out of Ectoslavia...
BN: Cause he was too good of a guitar player.
NS: Alright, Gary, this question's for you: Is Treble Kicker still an active record label?
GY: That's Scott's label, ask him.
NS: Scott?
SS: Yes, it is. We have five or six projects on the shelf right now, but that's about it. (laughs) I don't know if they'll ever come out.
NS: Who writes Pavement's lyrics?
SS: Steve writes the majority of them. Gary writes, uhhhh, maybe, uhhhh, Gary writes none of the lyrics.
GY: Three words I wrote!
NS: What were they?
GY: I don't know.
SS: Well, that tells you right there.
NS: What the hell inspires you guys?
SS: What inspires us?
NS: Yeah, to write the sort of lyrics that you do.
SS: Well, we just recorded a new EP.
NS: Yeah, is this the one with the A-side from the album?
SS: No, that was the "Trigger Cut" single. BN: It's the _Watery,_Domestic_EP.
SS: The new EP is gonna be called Watery, Domestic.
BN: It's about watery, American lager.
SS: A lot of the lyrics on that have to do with...
NS: Beer!?
SS: No, with Stockton.
BN: It's our first thematic work.
NS: Are we ever gonna see the Pavement equivalent of "Jesus Christ Superstar?"
SS: That's kinda what it is.
NS: The thematic box set?
SS: IT's a cross between the Stranglers and um, what was that one? Screech? This one band Screech, have you heard of them?
NS: No.
SS: It's this band from northern California.
NS: So it's a cross between the Stranglers and Screech?
SS: Naw, Steve's lyrics are just inspired by, just anything that comes to his mind. I mean, there's a lot of stuff, you know. Pick a song and he'll...
NS: Are there any songs that you feel stand out as having a particular meaning to them?
SS: Sure, all of 'em do!
NS: Well, one of my favorites from _Slanted_and_Enchanted_ is "Perfume V."
NS: Yeah that's a great song. SS: The lyrics to that are just amazing.
NS: What are they about?
SS: Well, actually it is about Steve's old cat, if you wanna get down to it! (laughs) Actually, Steve's girlfriend's cat. And he had this dream one-- or not drea-- but he was kinda pissed at her so he envisioned throwing this cat in...We live really close to a nuclear power plant. And so, he envisioned taking this cat and throwing it into the nuclear power plant.
NS: The Pavement world of mutation!
SS: (laughs) Yeah!
NS: How and when did Gary join the band?
SS: How? Well, we've done a lot of recording at Gary's studio, Louder Than You Think, and he kinda evolved into being our drummer because we wanted more of a live sound on the records. Why is he our drummer? Well...(laughs) We don't have an answer for that!
NS: Anyone who sees you [play live] can figure that out! How did Pavement hook up with Dan Koretzkey and Drag City?
SS: I met Dan at this...I was in Chicago and I was at this really bad rave party, you know?
NS: Acid House!?
SS: yeah, and this guy, there was this one guy who was like, um, he had this Drag City t-shirt on. O.K. Drag City wasn't a label at the time. He had this DC t-shirt on, and then he was wearing...these Speedos and he was dancin' around. And this guy, he was supposedly one of the biggest, like, ravers in Chicago.
NS: And it was Dan?
SS: It was Dan, yeah. And anyway, for some weird reason they played our first single at this place and he knew about it. Steve and I were just kinda like, "Yeah, this is great, this is us!" and he overheard us and he decided, you know, he wanted us to be on his label. He's like a big, kind of a...Have you ever met Dan?
NS: Not personally...
SS: He's a big, like, cult figure in Chicago. An underground cult figure.
NS: What made Steve move to New York?
SS: Let's see...I'd probably have to say the smell of New York. Yeah! (laughter)
NS: Why did you add Bob and Mark?
SS: ...fill in for Gary. But also, more importantly, that's really not the reason. Bob's always been a part of this band from the start in spirit. We couldn't get by without Bob. Mark joined because we knew he was an amazing bass player.
NS: From the Dustdevils [at the time]?
SS: Well, I didn't know he was in the Dustdevils. I heard he was in this band called Heavy Load...I heard a couple of their records and someone told me Mark was their bass player and I was just like, "Yeah, great!"
NS: [to Mr. Ibold who is on stage tuning] Hey Mark! How did you hook up with Pavement?
MI: Well...I'd been living in New York, and Bob and Steve were living in New York. I guess I originally met these guys when after a Dustdevils show, when a friend of Bob's said, "What the hell are you doing in the Dustdevils, you're wasting your time. You should be playing in our band from Virginia." I forgot the name of the band...Bob! S'cuse me! [ducks down from the stage to talk to Bob] Bob, what was the name of the band that Dave Berman asked me to join after one of the Dustdevils' shos?
BN: Oh, man! That would be Ectoslavia!
NS: The infamous Ectoslavia!
MI: he said, "Man, you shouldn't be playing with the Dustdevils, you should be playing with Ectoslavia." I was like, "Man, what a dick!" How could he say that after one of our shows? And then I kept running into those guys at other shows and stuff. I just ended up joining the band last summer.
NS: Are the Dustdevils still a working unit?
MI: Yeah, on hiatus right now.
NS: [to Bob] So, who are these mysterious Silver Jews characters?
BN: That would be David Berman and...it's his band, he writes most of the songs. He's currently in Virginia. And I just play, whatever. We record in my living room.
NS: So the other two guys are fake, in other words?
BN: No, I'm in the band, I'm a full-time member of the band.
NS: No, the "ashtray" credit man. [On the Jews' Dime Map of the Reef EP Spill Fantauzza is credited for "armrest, ashtray."]
BN: Oh, that's a woman, Jill Fantauzza! Yeah, she's my roommate, and she's in the band.
NS: And the other guitarists?
BN: the other guitarist is Hazel Figurine.
NS: [horrified] They're real people!
BN: yeah.
NS: Is that her real name?
BN: No, Hazel's a boy, a young boy. He's 17. he's...for a 17-year old he's pretty sexually deranged. He sleeps with Jill. That's the reason he's in the band.
NS: Strange...Any more plans to release stuff under that name [Silver Jews]?
BN: We're going to South Carolina to make a record: August 15th through 18th at a beach house.
NS: Cool.
BN: It'll be great. And we're gonna add...Hunter Kennedy is gonna be in the band, who's a South Carolinian. He's a great writer.
NS: Any sessions from the same tape that the EP was drawn from gonna be released?
BN: Yeah, there's like 35 songs that we've already finished. It's gonna be on Drag City, it's gonna be a full-length album.
NS: [Will it have the] same basement, lo-fi, home recorded[ sound as the EP]?
BN: I imagine so, we might go with a four-track for some of it. We have a keyboard-- a really, really old organ.
NS: Do you distort it like Pavement do?
BN: No, not at all. We try to make it sound as clear and polished as possible. Usually we record into one of these [points to my tape recorder]. That single was recorded into one of these.
NS: By the way, who does play Pavement's keyboards?
SS: Steve and I.
NS: What do you use, old analogs? They sound very gritty.
SS: No, we don't. We have...they're very modern keyboards.
NS: You play them through a distortion pedal?
SS: Some of the stuff, yeah.
NS: Who played bass before Mark? I mean, on the records.
SS: There's no bass on the records. There's ony two songs that have bass on the records.
NS: What about Slanted and Enchanted?
SS: One song has bass.
NS: "Box Elder" would be the other?
SS: Yes.
NS: What's the other song?
SS: "In the Mouth a Desert" has bass.
NS: Gary, exactly how old are you?
GY: What? What date is today?
BN: The 29th? [actually the 30th].
GY: [loking at his watch] Thirty-nine and a half.
NS: What was the significance of all those vegetables you gave everyone last night?
GY: I tried to feed to crowd.
NS: That was very nice of you.
GY: Tonight is the end of an era.
NS: What's that supposed to mean?
BN: Did people actually eat the vegetables?
NS: I had a carrot and it was delicious. Was it poison laced?
BN: [to gary] He ate some! Really, no, it's not poisoned. It was fresh produce!
GY: [to Bob] Was it you that told me that great story the other day?
BN: [ignoring Gary] I gave away a sandwich last night.
NS: Yeah, and you kept my Wingtip Sloat record fresh in your little box.
BN: That's right, in my corner!
NS: In your cooler.
GY: Was it you that told me you had a friend that ran around on Halloween Night...?
BN: Yeah, man, with the apples and the razor blades!
NS: How long ago was _Slanted_and_Enchanted recorded?
GY: Huh? '90, uh, January '91, right?
BN: Yeah.
NS: Why the fuck did Matador take so long to put it out?
GY: 'Cause they don't have enough money.
BN: What it is is that they put out bands, and have an extremely busy schedule.
NS: They're still working on _Hippy_Porn_[a NY indie film from 1991] sountrack back from October.
BN: They're still working on so many things that, like...those people are trying their best. Just like Big Cat, you know...It's not like they sit around and like, hang out and get drunk every day in the office. I mean those people work. They've got four or five people in their office now, in fact they've just hired a new guy. They all work 40 or 50 hours a week. We don't complain about Matador.
GY: It's a very difficult thing.
NS: The next Pavement release is gonna be that EP.
BN: October. Watery, Domestic EP.
NS: And it's gonna be on Matador?
BN: It's gonna be on Matador and Big Cat. It's four songs and it's got some really interesting keyboard interludes between a couple of the songs. It's like four mid-tempo pop songs. There isn't as much variety on it as Slanted and Enchanted.
NS: What's the Drag City compilation gonna be called?
BN: I thought it was gonna be called HEY Drag City [Actually Westing(By Musket and Sextant)]. I think that's what it might be called, but I'm not sure.
NS: So you really don't know exactly when it's coming out?
BN: I don't know when that's coming out.. I think they're talking about December or something like that. I think they're talking about having a special Christmas gift price.
NS: So you guys, you and Mark, play on any Pavement records?
BN: We do a tiny bit on the upcoming EP. Mark does some keyboards on the upcoming EP. Mark does some keyboards, actually on "Sue Me Jack" [on the "trigger Cut" single] I do a really quiet spoken-word part. On one song that's actually on the Drag City compilation I play a rain stick.
NS: So neither of you play your actual instruments [in the studio]
BN: No, it's not necessary, really, to have two drum sets in the studio. Maybe down the road we will. For me it doesn't matter.
NS: Are you actually going to move to Kentucky?
BN: yeah, definitely. [He did]
NS: And you're joining Britt Walford's band.
BN: No, I'm going to...I'm moving there, Britt's my best friend there and that's one of the reasons why I wanna move there, but being in a band with somebody like Britt...he's a real musician, you know, he's an accomplished musician...I mean, I couldn't play with those guys, man, they're too good!
NS: So if you move to Kentucky are you still gonna be in Pavement?
BN: Sure, if I wanna be, I think.
NS: That's cool.
BN: Yeah. Alright, thank you, Jordan. [Bob splits for the stage to do a sound check.]
NS: Has there been any major label interest in Pavement?
SS: I mean, we hear about it through the grapevine. But the only person they talk to is Gary because he's the biggest sucker in the band. He just went down to CBS yesterday and acted like he was, you know...he passed out in Sony's office, this guy's office.
NS: [sarcastically] So you won't be putting out that split EP with Poi Dog Pondering?
SS: Oh, god, I wish, man!!!
NS: Have you all quit your day jobs yet?
SS: We had to. This is what we're doing full-time.
NS: What did you guys do [for a living]? I know Mark was a waiter, Bob drove a bus...
SS: Gary runs a recording studio, Steve, uh, loafed, and I worked in this hardware store. (laughs)
NS: How do you guys keep Gary under control?
SS: Well, lets see...that's a hard question to answer. [to Bob] How do we keep Gary under control?
BN: No way! It's impossible!!
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 15 August 2019 21:11 (four years ago) link
Terrific interview, thanks for posting. I love that it was the day after the infamous "Bob demands a million dollars at a major label" / "Quick, put in him in a cab to Hoboken!" incident.
― Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Thursday, 15 August 2019 21:25 (four years ago) link
(Gary, not Bob - obv.)
I found this quote from the Leo Weekly interview linked above interesting:
When I was younger, and people bought records, I could live on the royalties. Times have changed in those respects.
in case anyone is still clinging to the whole 'streaming is good for independent artists' thing
― Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 15 August 2019 22:51 (four years ago) link
Of course, as discussed itt, Silver Jews and Purple Mountains stuff is sold out everywhere, including Discogs. Where were all these customers when DCB was alive? Oh right, they were streaming his music and listening to it for free on Youtube
― Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 15 August 2019 22:53 (four years ago) link
Maybe, but I assume at least some people buying DCB's records in the past few weeks were not previously familiar with him, and interest was spurred by these tributes/articles/etc.
― Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Thursday, 15 August 2019 23:17 (four years ago) link
and Drag City wasn't on streaming until recently
― triple-washed (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 15 August 2019 23:22 (four years ago) link
ponzi scheme is just being trenchant again
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 15 August 2019 23:24 (four years ago) link
there's an interview upthread ... or ... somewhere, I don't know ... that i read recently where Berman was expressing pleasant surprise at how much he was making monthly in royalties off the old SJ records. obviously, that was a relatively old interview.
― alpine static, Thursday, 15 August 2019 23:29 (four years ago) link
I feel a bit sad that he had the thought that no one loved the band (SJ). It makes me think of Guadalcanal Diary when they broke up saying (I am pretty sure, I really don't want to have to factcheck this) one of the reasons they stopped was because they were no one's favorite band.
― Yerac, Thursday, 15 August 2019 23:41 (four years ago) link
The old records sold pretty well for Drag City.
Just over 30K for Starlite...just under 30K for Natural...almost up to 50K (that's a lot!) for American Water...back down to 23K for Bright... then, up to 25K for Tanglewood... and around 16K for Lookout.
― mr.raffles, Friday, 16 August 2019 02:09 (four years ago) link
― gbx, Friday, 16 August 2019 02:32 (four years ago) link
xp: "hey boys, supper's on me/our record just went aluminum!"
― ☮ (peace, man), Friday, 16 August 2019 11:22 (four years ago) link
Wouldn't have anticipated quite so substantial a contraction for Bright Flight. Oh well. (Some days that feels like my favourite.)
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Friday, 16 August 2019 12:37 (four years ago) link
I wonder how many Domino sold, I would assume significantly less? (did they cover Europe or just the UK) I find the sales of cult artists endlessly fascinating, particularly the relationship between such modest sounding figures and the number of times you spot them second hand. That said, i have hardly ever seen Silver Jews records resold. The last two lps have aged wonderfully, esp. lookout mountain.
― cw, Friday, 16 August 2019 13:28 (four years ago) link
In one of the interviews linked above (i think from 2002?) he bemoans that hes one of the biggest selling Drag City artists but sells very little on Domino
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 16 August 2019 13:58 (four years ago) link
Wouldn't have anticipated quite so substantial a contraction for /Bright Flight/. Oh well. (Some days that feels like my favourite.)
― circa1916, Friday, 16 August 2019 13:58 (four years ago) link
Starlite Walker - The Natural Bridge - American Water - Bright Flight is such an amazing run. I think each one is better than the one before it. Should poll the instrumentals, closing ballads, etc. I guess he thought the tambourine was mixed too loud on Transylvania Blues, and it ruined the song. It never really bothered me until I read that, but I can't unhear it now.
― triple-washed (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 16 August 2019 17:02 (four years ago) link
Tanglewood is the sleeper of the catalog imo. But I legitimately love them all. Weirdly, maybe, Starlite is my least favorite. It's the most uneven, I think.
I remember reading that DCB thought he "let up" on side 2 of Bright Flight or something to that effect, which was why it wasn't more popular, according to him. I wish I could remember where I read that. He's mostly right - that album is very front-loaded. Then again, how many songwriters would give their right arm to write something as amazing as "Death To an Heir or Sorrows?" I also have always had a soft spot for "Tennessee," even though it's pretty dumb (in the sweetest and most self-aware kind of way, of course).
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 16 August 2019 17:07 (four years ago) link
Bright Flight is often the one I return to most these days
― Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Friday, 16 August 2019 18:06 (four years ago) link
Jeremiah Cymerman retweeted this email from DB to a friend going to hospital for detox.
Seven years ago I was about to go into the hospital for detox after a really rough few years. I was scared and isolated. I sent an email to David in the dark. His response truly helped me and I will always carry it with me.thank you dcb#dragcity #DavidBerman pic.twitter.com/VsXjJDMl2S— Timrw58 (@Timothy17695396) August 8, 2019
― EvR, Friday, 16 August 2019 20:50 (four years ago) link
I would agree the first half of Bright Flight is better than the second half, but I love Let's Not and Say We Did and Tennessee. The former has such weird nonsense lyrics describing a surreal winter wonderland. The latter is the Silver Jews' version of Jackson.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Friday, 16 August 2019 21:08 (four years ago) link
I wrote another thing
https://www.spin.com/featured/david-berman-best-songs-silver-jews-purple-mountains/
― Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 16 August 2019 21:17 (four years ago) link
Tanglewood is the sleeper of the catalog imo. But I legitimately love them all. Weirdly, maybe, Starlite is my least favorite. It's the most uneven, I think.(...)― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 16 August 2019
(...)
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 16 August 2019
Fully agree. For me Starlite is his weakest album.
― Duke, Friday, 16 August 2019 21:30 (four years ago) link
It does seem a little filler-y, but Trains Across the Sea, Advice to the Graduate, and New Orleans are all time.
― circa1916, Friday, 16 August 2019 21:33 (four years ago) link
LET'S DO THIS
Natural Bridge>>>Purple Mountains>>>Bright Flight>>>American Water>>>Arizona Record>>>Tanglewood Numbers>>>Starlite Walker>>> Lookout etc
They all have great songs though
― Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 16 August 2019 21:40 (four years ago) link
agree Natural Bridge da best
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Friday, 16 August 2019 21:42 (four years ago) link
"Nights That Won't Happen" is beautiful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPtqrXx0sJs
― djh, Friday, 16 August 2019 22:24 (four years ago) link
Natural Bridge > American Water > Tanglewood Numbers > Purple Mountains = Bright Flight = Lookout Mountain > Starlite Walker > Arizona
― Paul Ponzi, Saturday, 17 August 2019 00:11 (four years ago) link
whatever works for ya
― braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Saturday, 17 August 2019 02:31 (four years ago) link
Honestly don’t know how to rank these outside of Natural Bridge at #1 with Tanglewood >> Lookout at the end.
― circa1916, Saturday, 17 August 2019 06:25 (four years ago) link
Not rly counting the lo-fi early stuff, kind of a different thing.
― circa1916, Saturday, 17 August 2019 06:26 (four years ago) link
^ exactly right. i mean of course you have to rank Starlite Walker with the others, but it's not really a fair fight. Starlite is very much embryonic Joos. everything from Natural Bridge on is more fully Berman-ized and on equal footing.
― alpine static, Saturday, 17 August 2019 07:48 (four years ago) link
"Nights That Won't Happen" is beautiful:― djh, Friday, August 16, 2019 10:24 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
― djh, Friday, August 16, 2019 10:24 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
Was listening to Purple Mountains again the other day and when this came on I was just gutted. Not just over Berman's death, but over every death I've experienced and will experience in the future. Like, I haven't even listened to it in days, just writing a post about it, and I can feel the tears welling up in their ducts. I'm gonna go hug somebody I love now.
― ☮ (peace, man), Saturday, 17 August 2019 12:46 (four years ago) link
been spinning my peak trio today. hard to argue with American Water's popularity goddamn it what an album.
― triple-washed (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 17 August 2019 22:43 (four years ago) link
apologies if it’s been linked but some Nashville folks talking Berman https://www.nashvillescene.com/music/features/article/21082123/friends-and-bandmates-reflect-on-the-life-of-david-berman
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 17 August 2019 23:36 (four years ago) link
Great stories in that one, thanks
― circa1916, Sunday, 18 August 2019 00:50 (four years ago) link
yes, very good. thank you.
― triple-washed (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, 18 August 2019 01:47 (four years ago) link
David had a universe of one-liners that were as profound as zen koans. One night, when load-out was taking too long and some of the band wanted to go out partying, he yelled: "We're adults — we are too old to make new friends." He was a true humanist both in his work and his outlook on life. He hated pretension. He told me his favorite novel was Dog Soldiers by Robert Stone. He valued real storytelling and real connection. I was always self-conscious about not going to college and reading the classics, and I remember one time he said, kind of dismissively: "You have to go to an academy to have someone walk you through Joyce and Ezra Pound." On an eight-week tour in 2008, I am pretty sure all we listened to in the S-Jews van was country oldies, Black Sabbath, Grateful Dead and Tennessee Titans games.
William Tyler OTM. I like his records, too.
― del griffith, Sunday, 18 August 2019 02:04 (four years ago) link
his new album is wonderful. "nights that won't happen" is of a different tone than anything else i've heard from him
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 18 August 2019 02:09 (four years ago) link
'tide to the oceans' such a standout track from starlite walker... played it about five times today
― meaulnes, Sunday, 18 August 2019 22:10 (four years ago) link
jfc
― Karl Malone, Monday, 19 August 2019 04:54 (four years ago) link
Was lurking BobNasty's IG, found these older posts:
https://www.instagram.com/p/17OfckD87t/https://www.instagram.com/p/BhrOqjnl8G2/
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 19 August 2019 05:04 (four years ago) link
Yeah that Darkness and Cold video is difficult to watch. xpost
― Duke, Monday, 19 August 2019 16:23 (four years ago) link
Wow: “For pleasant accidents, “Nights That Won’t Happen”, came out of mishearing “Knight In White Satin” ”— Marc Masters (@Marcissist) August 21, 2019
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 22 August 2019 02:54 (four years ago) link
^^ from another new recent interview:
https://www.metro.us/entertainment/metro-remembers-david-berman-1967-2019
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 22 August 2019 02:55 (four years ago) link
if you're into thinking about "pleasant accidents" or even unpleasant accidents I recommend clicking through the long history of the mostly desolately populated jibberish infested Silver Jews Bulletin Board, past all the dumb seemingly nonsensical pecker posts, to get to the the 2012-2015 era to find lots of rough drafts of now-familiar song lyrics and a lot of originals about marital dissolution, extramarital sex, Nashville, Brooklyn, alcoholism, homosexuality, suicide, and lots more (probably about 20-25 posts) posted by the poster breedlove, most often also under the lyrical pseudonym Kingston Bunkley, and also sometimes attributed to a "Craig Breedlove." ("Craig" of course being David's pre-Cloud middle name.) It's the same poster at the same time that posted the lyrics to songs called "The Veranda Over the Toy Shoppe" and "Wacky Package Eyes" that seems to line up with up what Bob Nastanovich was saying at the time about two new Silver Jews songs he said they'd written, but then later retracted as a joke. I'd post links to the posts directly but they don't seem to work. Other posts from around the same time suggest this is maybe an account operated by or shared with Chris Stroffolino, but then again there are also posts from breedlove saying "this is not Chris." I'll let the Nick Broomfields of ilx figure that out.
https://i.imgur.com/cYBV2N9.png
― del griffith, Thursday, 22 August 2019 04:02 (four years ago) link
btw that IP address can be traced to Brooklyn, New York.
― del griffith, Thursday, 22 August 2019 04:04 (four years ago) link
(also, he said in an interview that he intentionally chose "Nights that Won't Happen" as a titleplay on "Knights in White Satin," and was surprised when his friends didn't immediately realize it. so, there's that)
― del griffith, Thursday, 22 August 2019 04:10 (four years ago) link
breedloveSnow is Falling, New York CityMon Jan 26, 2015 22:0368.175.60.236
Snow is falling in Manhattan, I’ve got my coat, I’ve got my hat onFalling deepler down in Brooklyn, someone cold that I just took inSnowflakes causing quite a scene, Staten Island, The Bronx and QueensSoftly falling, oh so pretty, snow is falling, New York City
Falling down on Brooklyn Bridge, from Riverdale down to Bay RidgeFrom the narrows, to the heights, falling on the city lightsSee the city in a rush, transformed with a quiet hushCome tomorrow it’s all gone, still it falls on and on
Snow along the sidewalk sweeps, across the city that never sleepsChildren sledding in the park, couples skating after darkSounds of laughter in the air, snow plows rushing here and thereSnowmen, snowballs, snowflakes fall, snow draped buildings big and small
Snow is falling in Manhattan, I’ve got my coat, I’ve got my hat onFalling deeply out in Brooklyn, someone cold that I just took inSnowflakes causing quite a scene, Staten Island, The Bronx and QueensSoftly falling, oh so pretty, snow is falling, New York City---Kingston Bunkley
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 22 August 2019 04:17 (four years ago) link
The more I listen to this, the more I believe it's his finest group of songs (really a musical suicide note). I applaud him for finding a way to write this stuff while (likely) suffering through the worst depression of his life. This album is as chilling as any in recent memory. The fact that it's also hilarious at times is all the more remarkable. Album of the year.
― Wally P. Doyle, Thursday, 22 August 2019 06:07 (four years ago) link
(also, he said in an interview that he intentionally chose "Nights that Won't Happen" as a titleplay on "Knights in White Satin," and was surprised when his friends didn't immediately realize it. so, there's that)― del griffith, Thursday, August 22, 2019 4:10 AM (thirteen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― del griffith, Thursday, August 22, 2019 4:10 AM (thirteen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Had a feeling that was the case.
― ☮ (peace, man), Thursday, 22 August 2019 17:34 (four years ago) link
oh duh haha I'm so dense
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 22 August 2019 17:58 (four years ago) link
Bill Callahan did a couple Silver Jews songs last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sNdNyan_h4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CStDjTZnh2s
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Friday, 23 August 2019 15:43 (four years ago) link
I became momentarily and unwittingly internet famous for posting a bad 40-second-clip of one of those. Glad someone else did a better job capturing. http://pitchfork.com/news/watch-bill-callahan-cover-silver-jews-i-remember-me/
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 23 August 2019 19:22 (four years ago) link
("internet famous" on a very low level but high relative to my day-to-day anonymity)
how many rt
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Friday, 23 August 2019 19:44 (four years ago) link
instagram - hundred someodd likes and climbing, but point being that it's in pitchfork
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 23 August 2019 19:48 (four years ago) link
This might have been mentioned but reading that alternative version of Snow is Falling in Manhattan i wonder if it's an (not that) oblique reference to Joyce's The Dead.
― Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Sunday, 25 August 2019 10:08 (four years ago) link
It's interesting what he changed with the released version of Snow is Falling in Manhattan - I think its vastly superior to the version KM posted above. Changes the song from a one-dimensional observation/scene of a winter day to a multi-dimensional metaphor for writers/musicians and their relationship with readers/listeners. The song became less repetitive, but deeper.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Sunday, 25 August 2019 16:34 (four years ago) link
Put off listening to this until finally today, driving through the mountains of Vermont. Seemed like a good setting. It was a very hard, rewarding listen. Held it together until the 1-2 punch of “I Loved Being My Mother’s Son” and “Nights That Won’t Happen.”
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, 25 August 2019 23:03 (four years ago) link
For any Toronto-based fans, there's a tribute happening on the night that would have been the Purple Mountains show
― Simon H., Sunday, 25 August 2019 23:07 (four years ago) link
this briefly warmed my spirits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dl__2ILE8k
"there is no leisure with dignity in an unfinished world"
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Tuesday, 27 August 2019 06:33 (four years ago) link
https://anmlcollectve.bandcamp.com/track/ballad-of-reverend-war-character-silver-jews-cover-2
A few weeks ago we planned on seeing Purple Mountains together. Instead we spent the night listening to David’s records and talking about how much his music and art meant to us. He was an inspiration for decades. One we wouldn’t be here without. We’ve been playing covers of his music since 1994 when we first picked up guitars together, so it felt like one of the few things we could do to get through the sadness. The next day we worked on this cover of “Ballad of Reverend War Character”. Per the request from David’s family, all of the proceeds will be donated to MusiCares and Music Health Alliance, so pay as much as you want. - Avey Tare & Geologist
― flappy bird, Saturday, 31 August 2019 06:40 (four years ago) link
Looks like Drag City is taking preorders on their website for represses of all the Silver Jews LPs
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Saturday, 31 August 2019 17:56 (four years ago) link
https://boingboing.net/2019/09/02/my-unfinished-sound-project-wi.html
― na (NA), Tuesday, 3 September 2019 16:45 (four years ago) link
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/09/12/david-berman-of-silver-jews-remembered/
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 17 September 2019 20:33 (four years ago) link
"Nights That Won't Happen"...........................................................................Fuck
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 24 September 2019 04:54 (four years ago) link
Yes.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 24 September 2019 06:43 (four years ago) link
Episode 100: a tribute to the life, words, and music of David Cloud Berman. Songs from Silver Jews and Purple Mountains, stories from @BNastanovich. https://t.co/iu4DjR3Yus— 3 Songs Podcast (@3songspod) October 14, 2019
― drunk on hot toddies (morrisp), Tuesday, 15 October 2019 02:01 (four years ago) link
That was enjoyable, thanks for sharing that link. It'd be great to hear an unfiltered account of DCBs hijnks, understandable why people would be hesitant to do so though
― badg, Tuesday, 15 October 2019 16:56 (four years ago) link
Heartening (&heartbreaking) to hear about Jeffrey Lewis and DBs respect & admiration for him, Jeff was over the moon to be collabing with him & took it hard afterward.
I so glad that Bob has this podcast, I could listen to him talk about anything for pretty much any length of time.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 15 October 2019 17:47 (four years ago) link
Jeffrey Lewis is a treasure. One of the few lyricists I can think of that can measure up to DCB (though obviously coming from a very different place).
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 15 October 2019 17:52 (four years ago) link
still best album of the year, even if i can only listen to it in very specific moods and so not really that often.
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Monday, 28 October 2019 15:45 (four years ago) link
in fact i'd say it's Mr Berman's best since Bright Flight.
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Monday, 28 October 2019 15:50 (four years ago) link
"i loved being my mother's son" is the most heartbreaking song of 2019. oh my god. in the villa or ormen
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 20:17 (four years ago) link
Tennessee Titans honor David Berman with scoreboard message https://t.co/vU9qnaUDt4 pic.twitter.com/pEXsArZxSG— Stereogum (@stereogum) November 11, 2019
― quinn morgendorffer stan account (morrisp), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 21:18 (four years ago) link
That rules so much -- I would love to know how it happened, i.e. did someone pay for it, is there a fan in the ownership or mgmt, is he better recognized in Nashville than I realized, etc.
I haven't been able to listen to the record for months -- it's just too heartbreaking.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 21:24 (four years ago) link
I can't resist listening, despite it being a long suicide note. Some beautiful songs. Definitely one of his best.
― Duke, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 21:45 (four years ago) link
Oral history of DCB's time in Virginia/NYC:
https://news.virginia.edu/content/portrait-artist-oral-history-david-berman-uva
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 15 November 2019 05:34 (four years ago) link
& WTJU is having a tribute/memorial concert this weekend. They put together a band called The Wild Kindness. I am out of the loop so I don't know all the people involved but I see Matt D4tesman, Sh4nn0n W0rrel, G4te, N3d Oldh4m.
― Yerac, Friday, 15 November 2019 12:22 (four years ago) link
closest i've been able to get to listening to the album has been listening to covers & tributes, including repeat listens to this one of Dean Wareham doing 'Snow Is Falling In Manhattan (cant remember if its been posted itt): https://soundcloud.com/section26/dean-wareham-snow-is-falling-in-manhattan
Initially thought of 'Snow' as a pleasant romantic interlude on an otherwise very intense album, its gradually risen in my estimation to my favorite song on the record
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 15 November 2019 13:20 (four years ago) link
I had never listened to this guy before his death (I’m a pavement skeptic) but this album is really great. I know no one needed to hear that, but I wanted to say it.
― L'assie (Euler), Friday, 15 November 2019 13:23 (four years ago) link
Snow is the beating heart of the album. It is the song where you get the sense of Berman's warmth and humanity without the weight of his depression.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Saturday, 16 November 2019 02:31 (four years ago) link
i've mulled that "songs build little rooms in time" verse over in my head so many times this year and i'm in awe at how perfect it is
― Heez, Saturday, 16 November 2019 03:47 (four years ago) link
― circa1916, Saturday, 16 November 2019 03:48 (four years ago) link
Most of us haven’t even gotten a winter day to fully appreciate it in.
― circa1916, Saturday, 16 November 2019 03:52 (four years ago) link
The horns on Snow... are so damn perfect.
And I crapped on about this upthread but it's become so entwined with Joyce in my head I'm convinced Berman was communing with The Dead when he wrote Snow is Falling on Manhattan.
Generous tears filled Gabriel’s eyes. He had never felt like that himself towards any woman, but he knew that such a feeling must be love. The tears gathered more thickly in his eyes and in the partial darkness he imagined he saw the form of a young man standing under a dripping tree. Other forms were near. His soul had approached that region where dwell the vast hosts of the dead. He was conscious of, but could not apprehend, their wayward and flickering existence. His own identity was fading out into a grey impalpable world: the solid world itself, which these dead had one time reared and lived in, was dissolving and dwindling.A few light taps upon the pane made him turn to the window. It had begun to snow again. He watched sleepily the flakes, silver and dark, falling obliquely against the lamplight. The time had come for him to set out on his journey westward. Yes, the newspapers were right: snow was general all over Ireland. It was falling on every part of the dark central plain, on the treeless hills, falling softly upon the Bog of Allen and, farther westward, softly falling into the dark mutinous Shannon waves. It was falling, too, upon every part of the lonely churchyard on the hill where Michael Furey lay buried. It lay thickly drifted on the crooked crosses and headstones, on the spears of the little gate, on the barren thorns. His soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the universe and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the living and the dead.
A few light taps upon the pane made him turn to the window. It had begun to snow again. He watched sleepily the flakes, silver and dark, falling obliquely against the lamplight. The time had come for him to set out on his journey westward. Yes, the newspapers were right: snow was general all over Ireland. It was falling on every part of the dark central plain, on the treeless hills, falling softly upon the Bog of Allen and, farther westward, softly falling into the dark mutinous Shannon waves. It was falling, too, upon every part of the lonely churchyard on the hill where Michael Furey lay buried. It lay thickly drifted on the crooked crosses and headstones, on the spears of the little gate, on the barren thorns. His soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the universe and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the living and the dead.
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Saturday, 16 November 2019 11:04 (four years ago) link
this record is incredible
― treeship., Sunday, 17 November 2019 20:05 (four years ago) link
i also read actual air recently. really lovely poems.
"if Christ had died in a hallway we might pray in hallwaysor wear little golden hallways around our necks."
― treeship., Sunday, 17 November 2019 20:08 (four years ago) link
i don't see the purple mountains album as a suicide note btw. it seems more therapeutic--facing up to the horror of the present in order to shake loose of it.
― treeship., Sunday, 17 November 2019 20:33 (four years ago) link
Nights That Won’t Happen is the only song on here that feels utterly posthumous
― flappy bird, Sunday, 17 November 2019 20:52 (four years ago) link
The line “I wasn’t done being my mother’s son” gets me every time.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Monday, 18 November 2019 00:39 (four years ago) link
<q>i don't see the purple mountains album as a suicide note btw.</q>
I pretty much do.
― alpine static, Monday, 18 November 2019 00:54 (four years ago) link
ugh, my bad on the formatting. i knew it didn't look right but i hit "submit" anyway.
― alpine static, Monday, 18 November 2019 00:55 (four years ago) link
i don't see the purple mountains album as a suicide note btw.
I pretty much do. But have felt hesitant to say it out loud / online.
― alpine static, Monday, 18 November 2019 00:56 (four years ago) link
But this kind of hurtin' won't heal
That's the devastating conclusion of the first song. I know the suicide note thing sounds trite, but it feels like that to me.
― Duke, Monday, 18 November 2019 17:52 (four years ago) link
I just watched william tyler and Cassie Berman cover silver jews’s punks in the beer light and sure did cry in my car after pic.twitter.com/5H9LPoKMSc— marty in my mind (@Jorty_Spice) December 1, 2019
― ... (Eazy), Sunday, 1 December 2019 22:18 (four years ago) link
is there a video? i love that song
― treeship., Sunday, 1 December 2019 22:21 (four years ago) link
I’ll keep an eye out for one...0
― ... (Eazy), Sunday, 1 December 2019 22:31 (four years ago) link
I was wondering how the members of Woods were doing, how they've been feeling since August. It'd be sweet to see more tribute shows, maybe with them? Pretty bummed the Purple Mountains record never got played live.
― flappy bird, Sunday, 1 December 2019 23:39 (four years ago) link
a snippet here: https://www.instagram.com/p/B5ishqDBgpg/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
― tylerw, Monday, 2 December 2019 00:15 (four years ago) link
pic.twitter.com/KAGRSUBHob— Bill Callahan (@BillCallaman) December 4, 2019
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 4 December 2019 18:25 (four years ago) link
I miss him, and will forever.
― Mule, Sunday, 8 December 2019 11:43 (four years ago) link
I finally gave a good listen to the lyrics of “nights that won’t happen.” That song certainly sounds like a suicide note... But the thing ends with “maybe i’m the only one for me” where he describes a future where he resigns himself to loneliness. (“I need to learn to love myself”)... is this just - very cruel kind of irony? And what does it say to his wife who apparently had left him?
As a sufferer of depression I recognize all the thought patterns in these lyrics, and why I loved that he could have such humor about it. The ugly feelings were transmuted into something rollicking and playful, which is really what a lot of American music is about. But like—i feel personally invested in finding hope in this record for some reason
― treeship., Thursday, 19 December 2019 21:39 (four years ago) link
Nice essay about David Berman in the NYT Lives They Lived:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/23/magazine/david-berman-death.html
― Lily Dale, Friday, 27 December 2019 03:38 (four years ago) link
NYC & Portland, Ore live music tributes looked nice
― curmudgeon, Monday, 6 January 2020 20:15 (four years ago) link
i've mulled that "songs build little rooms in time" verse over in my head so many times this year and i'm in awe at how perfect it is― Heez, Friday, November 15, 2019 10:47 PM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Heez, Friday, November 15, 2019 10:47 PM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink
Lots of references to Berman's approaching demise throughout the album, but the third verse of "Snow" is absolutely the most spectral and most sublime of these. It's a little scary almost to contemplate how perfect all those verses are. "Snow" is probably song of the year imo
― PLEB AF (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 6 January 2020 20:33 (four years ago) link
This was probably my most played album of 2019 and, I think, has my favourite song of the year ... but I'm not really comfortable with the songs that clearly reference his partner, I don't think. Life/great records aren't necessarily about being comfortable but that isn't quite what I mean. Might come back and re-explain when not on wine.
― djh, Monday, 6 January 2020 22:36 (four years ago) link
Probably my my most played longplayer too.
Half of the PM album (Happiness, Darkness, Snow, Margaritas, Nights) was nominated for the 2019 tracks poll. Not undeservedly. Any interest in measures to overcome vote-splitting?
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Tuesday, 7 January 2020 01:08 (four years ago) link
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/watch-steve-malkmus-bob-nastanovich-rebecca-gates-more-play-david-berman-tribute-in-portland/
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 7 January 2020 04:28 (four years ago) link
Any interest in measures to overcome vote-splitting?
― enochroot, Wednesday, 8 January 2020 02:28 (four years ago) link
tbh I'm expecting ppl to gravitate towards "Nights" even without strategery
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Wednesday, 8 January 2020 03:01 (four years ago) link
I think Snow vs Margaritas
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 January 2020 03:02 (four years ago) link
I nominated and voted for “Snow.”
― Don’t yell ‘Judas!’ in a crowded theater (morrisp), Wednesday, 8 January 2020 03:13 (four years ago) link
I'll certainly vote for "Nights That Won't Happen" either way. Happy to add a further crowd-pleaser...
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Wednesday, 8 January 2020 03:24 (four years ago) link
this is gonna be the ultimate vote splitter. my vote went to 'happiness'
― culture of mayordom (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 8 January 2020 04:01 (four years ago) link
i think it'll get one or two songs on the countdown regardless
just voted for all of em!
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Wednesday, 8 January 2020 10:10 (four years ago) link
Snow will definitely be high on my ballot. Margaritas will be on there somewhere too.
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Wednesday, 8 January 2020 16:48 (four years ago) link
'Snow' seems popular. I'll make that my second PM vote then!
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Thursday, 9 January 2020 11:23 (four years ago) link
See if you recognize the former ilxor as MC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHTXXzdbf6s
The surviving members perform:
Secret Knowledge of Back Roads (Pavement version)Buckingham RabbitAdvice to the GraduateRandom RulesWelcome To The House of the Bats*Trains Across the Sea
*post-song banter refers to SM wanting Bob to reprise the monologue that Bob did as his first performance on a Pavement record ("Sue Me Jack") in a tribute to his good friends Slint's then-newly-released Spiderland. The monologue lyrics iirc refer to Bob's mom finding a Frederic Remington painting on the cheap somehow. Yes, I know deep Pavement trivia in case you were wondering.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 9 January 2020 23:14 (four years ago) link
I can't decipher the "Sue Me Jack" monologue, but are you referring to the monologue on "Welcome to the House of the Bats"?
― Don’t yell ‘Judas!’ in a crowded theater (morrisp), Thursday, 9 January 2020 23:20 (four years ago) link
Thanks for sharing that video, btw. And yes, I recognize D. Wolk (I worked w/him a million years ago)
― Don’t yell ‘Judas!’ in a crowded theater (morrisp), Thursday, 9 January 2020 23:25 (four years ago) link
SM asked Bob to do a monologue referencing Remington (i.e. the "Sue Me Jack" bit) during the Bats coda, I'm just providing some trivial background on it.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 9 January 2020 23:44 (four years ago) link
Cool, I just got to that part in the video (and sorry if I sounded confused -- I was referring to the fact that the Remington monologue can be heard very clearing in the original recording of "House of the Bats"; I didn't realize that the "Sue Me Jack" bit had the same subject, as it's buried so deep in the mix.)
― Don’t yell ‘Judas!’ in a crowded theater (morrisp), Thursday, 9 January 2020 23:47 (four years ago) link
I attended the Portland thing. Was hoping Stephen and Bob would say a bit more about David, but there wasn't much. Ever-guarded Stephen - as you might guess - said basically nothing. Bob had an emotional moment you can watch in the 22nd minute of that video up there.
That pretty much sums the two of them up.
Their relationship and the way it benefitted both of them in Pavement really fascinates me.
― alpine static, Friday, 10 January 2020 05:51 (four years ago) link
That performance was rough.
― Duke, Friday, 10 January 2020 17:09 (four years ago) link
They didn't practice. The songs are super old and they haven't played them in years. What they did is exactly what I expected (and wanted).
― alpine static, Friday, 10 January 2020 19:29 (four years ago) link
it was great — sounded like early joos.
― tylerw, Friday, 10 January 2020 20:03 (four years ago) link
Another Titans tribute:https://www.instagram.com/p/B7ZWAIMF3Tr/?igshid=1ns9wfh71uam4
― dad genes (morrisp), Saturday, 25 January 2020 20:30 (four years ago) link
Mentioned it in another thread, but I’d like to hear Pet Shop Boys do “Margaritas at the Mall.”
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 27 January 2020 19:03 (four years ago) link
His passing has received more mention from a professional football team than from the Grammys
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 27 January 2020 19:19 (four years ago) link
goes without saying but the grammys have virtually nothing to do with people who make music
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Monday, 27 January 2020 19:25 (four years ago) link
it's like an internal company end of year teambuilding award show that is for some reason televised and watched by millions of people
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Monday, 27 January 2020 19:26 (four years ago) link
No mention of Scott Walker, Bushwick Bill, or Mark Hollis on the Grammy memorial segment (and they misspelled Ric Ocasek's name)
Not that any of those people would give a shit, but fans of those people (like me) definitely did
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 27 January 2020 19:43 (four years ago) link
yeah that irked the fuck outta me
― I wanna publish memes and rage against machimes (rip van wanko), Monday, 27 January 2020 19:50 (four years ago) link
the grammies sucks ass and are run by scumbags, wouldn't want them to sully DCB's name by mentioning him
― frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver), Monday, 27 January 2020 19:52 (four years ago) link
"the grammies sucks ass and are..."
god i am illiterate
― frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver), Monday, 27 January 2020 19:53 (four years ago) link
"the grammies sucks ass" sounds better and rings truer.
― del griffith, Monday, 27 January 2020 21:01 (four years ago) link
It is one award show.
"Purple Mountains is..." would also work fine.
― pplains, Monday, 27 January 2020 21:16 (four years ago) link
the more appropriate test of industry integrity will be seeing whether or not DCB gets his three second salute within the obit montage at this November's 54th Annual CMA Awards.
or wait, I guess it's just The CMAs. or maybe just CMA. it's definitely not CMA's, that I know for sure.
― del griffith, Monday, 27 January 2020 23:28 (four years ago) link
actually I think the apostrophe is acceptable in that case, lol
― I wanna publish memes and rage against machimes (rip van wanko), Monday, 27 January 2020 23:41 (four years ago) link
I dunno if we're doing Chicago or APA style but to me it seems more intuitive to use the apostrophe like "Dierk's Bentley was not welcome at the CMAs so the CMA's valet requested he arrive in a muddy pickup truck instead."
― del griffith, Monday, 27 January 2020 23:47 (four years ago) link
long interview from 2018:
https://believermag.com/an-interview-with-david-berman/
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 31 January 2020 16:28 (four years ago) link
That piece is a) brilliant and ii) costing me a bloody fortune (it's FULL of reading recommendations). Along with everything else about Berman, he was a nexus for so much interesting stuff. I wish someone could/would aggregate all of his recommendations.
― Ngolo Cantwell (Chinaski), Sunday, 2 February 2020 17:39 (four years ago) link
That interview sure doesn’t make the album (or any of its songs) sound like they were intended as a “suicide note.”
― dad genes (morrisp), Sunday, 2 February 2020 18:21 (four years ago) link
I read https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-American-Prophecy-Rendezvous/dp/0767900464 [The Fourth Turning: An American Prophecy—What the Cycles of History Tell Us about America’s Next Rendezvous with Destiny] in the nineties.It really influenced my picture of what 2020 would look like, and 25 years later it looks to me like it’s still on course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theoryIt makes a really incredible claim, that four generational types go round and round every hundred years. That one of these types shows up every 80 years: glorious rev —-> American revolution —-> Civil War —-> Depression —-> WWII —-> today (these are all roughly 80 years apart). In conjunction with a major crisis/meltdown to rebuild society on new terms. So generation Z, in this case, grow up in chaos and develop the characteristics that the WWII generation had—the world conquering abilities. The children of the WWII generation—the silent generation, the baby boomers—grew up coddled in the new regime, and started to tear it down, initiating another meltdown. Any serious person would laugh at this book. Take a look.
It really influenced my picture of what 2020 would look like, and 25 years later it looks to me like it’s still on course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory
It makes a really incredible claim, that four generational
types go round and round every hundred years. That one of these types shows up every 80 years: glorious rev —-> American revolution —-> Civil War —-> Depression —-> WWII —-> today (these are all roughly 80 years apart). In conjunction with a major crisis/meltdown to rebuild society on new terms. So generation Z, in this case, grow up in chaos and develop the characteristics that the WWII generation had—the world conquering abilities. The children of the WWII generation—the silent generation, the baby boomers—grew up coddled in the new regime, and started to tear it down, initiating another meltdown. Any serious person would laugh at this book. Take a look.
nooooooooo david!
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Sunday, 2 February 2020 20:45 (four years ago) link
it's a great interview, btw (still reading). this just jumped out to me because nooooo
btw the vinyl is back in stock at Drag City for $22 so you don't have to go to scumbag eBay vultures, free shipping even!
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 2 February 2020 21:18 (four years ago) link
It's available again in the UK, too - a bunch of places have it. Norman Records have it's for £20.
― Ngolo Cantwell (Chinaski), Sunday, 2 February 2020 21:52 (four years ago) link
how well known would he have been without the pavement connection? i think he may have been virtually unknown
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 17:52 (four years ago) link
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/af/Slidingdoors.jpg/220px-Slidingdoors.jpg
― na (NA), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:00 (four years ago) link
*look of consternation*
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:04 (four years ago) link
how well known would he have been without the pavement connection? i think he may have been virtually unknown― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, February 4, 2020 9:52 AM (twenty-six minutes ago)
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, February 4, 2020 9:52 AM (twenty-six minutes ago)
This feels anachronistic to me. Around 1991, both bands had been operating in parallel. David, Steve & Bob were roommates in Jersey City goofing around as the Silver Jews while "Pavement" existed as a cross-country project with Steve's friend Scott in Stockton, basically recording when Steve would come home to visit on holidays/occasions. At the time, Pavement had a few obscure singles/EPs that had been primarily zine-worthy, maybe until SPIN hyped up Perfect Sound Forever is when the real buzz (or the Weddoes cover?).
The fact that David was roommates with 2 members of Pavement was simply circumstance as Bob, David & Steve had been playing music together at UVA a few years prior as Ectoslavia (with James McNew & Rob Chamberlain).
David is/was probably as famous as any other Drag City artist not named Pavement. So if you think Royal Trux, Will Oldham, Bill Callahan are "virtually unknown" then maybe you are on to something. But Pavement/Malkmus made the jump from Drag City to Matador at a particularly opportune time, which was a huge factor in the reason for their popularity.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:38 (four years ago) link
(I'm on a long boring call, apologies if that doesn't make a ton of sense)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:39 (four years ago) link
why does this matter again? not asking you, Jersey Al, just wondering.
he stopped being virtually unknown 20+ years ago, had a critically acclaimed career that attracted a non-negligible (and passionate) fan base and now he's dead.
it seems particularly silly to try to determine whether he *really* deserved it all or not.
― alpine static, Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:50 (four years ago) link
xp
it does make sense, and was interesting to read. you should write the longform pavement story/bio that i'm not sure exists yet
i thought SJ/DB were more popular than bill callahan, but as i compare YT view counts (not exactly definitive, i know) I seem to be wrong
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:56 (four years ago) link
xp: Oh I agree, which is why I stated that the OP's sentiment came from an anachronistic POV.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:57 (four years ago) link
my question really has nothing to do with Berman's work or value at all
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:58 (four years ago) link
in a subjective sense
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:59 (four years ago) link
I haven't read it since it was published, but I'm sure Rob Jovanovic's Pavement bio goes into most of this Inside Baseball level backstory.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:59 (four years ago) link
Albert B otm xp
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:00 (four years ago) link
OTOH drag city itself probably owes something to the pavement connection, so you could say that lifted all boats
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:03 (four years ago) link
I learned over the weekend that my mother, of all people, is apparently a big Callahan head ("Do you know him, and his band, Smog? He's so talented, he has an amazing voice... there's no one else like him!").
She's not an "indie" type at all. I was pretty surprised.
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:03 (four years ago) link
Regardless though, once I got to know Silver Jews, I thought (and still think) them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavement
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:04 (four years ago) link
(him)
There are hundreds of bands that were offshoots and side projects of better known indie bands whose albums currently languish in dollar bins worldwide. If SJ was ever considered a Pavement "side project," it transcended this, by my estimation, around the time of The Natural Bridge and became its own thing with its own distinct fanbase. To claim SJ might have been "virtually unknown" is incorrect. When I think of virtually unknown bands that feature members of relatively well-loved Drag City and Matador acts, I think of Pale Horse Riders, Drinks, Dan'l Boone, The Sundowners, New Bums, Nervous Cop, Preston School of Industry, etc.
fwiw idgaf about Pavement but I'm a longtime Silver Jews fan, and I can't imagine I'm the only person who fits this description
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:13 (four years ago) link
Hey Paul, totally off-topic – how did you like that Fiery Furnaces album you ordered on eBay?
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:17 (four years ago) link
My "favorite" Silver Jews/Pavement related obscure band:
They played CBs a few times. Nobody remembers them. This video has 568 views in 9 years, probably a dozen from me.
vox/guitar is UVA roommate/best-friend of DCB who was also a former member of Ectoslavia... and Mark Ibold replaced him as bass player of Pavement after a few gigs. Also a Swans & Live Skull connection.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:25 (four years ago) link
(^this is the definition of virtually unknown imho)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:28 (four years ago) link
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, February 4, 2020 2:17 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
I loved it, actually, and it made me want to go back to the others I neglected. Meant to thank you for the tip! "Drive to Dallas" and "Charmagne Champagne" are top shelf FF, and I laughed out loud every time the "Take Me Round Again" chorus repeated ("listen, Lester!"). Dunno why I ever stopped paying attention to this band when they were around, especially since I was crazy about their first few albums, and have also enjoyed all of Eleanor's solo stuff.
Sorry for the derail!
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:39 (four years ago) link
Great, glad to hear it! (and the derail is my fault, lol)
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:53 (four years ago) link
If SJ was ever considered a Pavement "side project," it transcended this, by my estimation, around the time of The Natural Bridge and became its own thing with its own distinct fanbase.
Pavement was a Silver Jews side project
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 20:26 (four years ago) link
that's a false myth:
first pavement recording: jan 1989, released july 1989first silver jews recordings: 1991, released may 1992
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 21:14 (four years ago) link
i know nothing, but recording dates don't necessarily prove that one thing existed before the other. they just mean that one sloppy unheard band decided to record something before the other
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 21:17 (four years ago) link
Wikipedia says they were formed at roughly the same time, fwiw, both in 1989
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 21:52 (four years ago) link
Pavement was not a side project of the Silver Jews. Like I said upthread, they were operating in parallel. One was some drunk roommates living room "recordings", and one was a cross-country project that would record on the occasional holiday break.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 22:05 (four years ago) link
Al -- thx for posting that Sugartime single. I love the riff... the vocals are SO in that '80s NYC zone, they sound like Das Damen or any number of other bands.
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 22:24 (four years ago) link
As far as the Sliding Doors game, if Berman had stayed only a poet, he probably would be at the fame level of Matthew Zapruder or Dean Young.
― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 22:54 (four years ago) link
Thx @morrisp,
Both David & Rob were huge Cure/Echo fans, you never heard it in David's voice but I hear a lot of goth/crossover in Rob's. I have a pic of them looking pretty gothy somewhere, it was sent to me around the time of David's passing.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:15 (four years ago) link
This is a good one (Rob & David):
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2srCfuDSFp/
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:23 (four years ago) link
This IG account was their other roommate at the time, she has a bunch of old pics of Rob & David:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2stEsKjxWl/
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:24 (four years ago) link
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2sLR-AD2YK/https://www.instagram.com/p/B1Scu5bDdMe/https://www.instagram.com/p/B1SbE0rDlA8/
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:25 (four years ago) link
Re: the 2nd pic (with the cig) -- looks like Malkmus borrowed that shirt at one point (or vice-versa).
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:31 (four years ago) link
Good eye, the first pic was taken ~86, the Starlite Walker pix ~8 years later.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:34 (four years ago) link
i had that exact shirt around 9th grade lol. surprised i didn't make the connection before
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 00:22 (four years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/PE32eVG.jpg
― PaulTMA, Thursday, 13 February 2020 13:22 (four years ago) link
https://uvamagazine.org/articles/testing_grounds_for_indie_greatness
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 29 February 2020 22:35 (four years ago) link
https://youtu.be/nsjQ3Gblzys?t=177
― enochroot, Thursday, 26 March 2020 19:50 (three years ago) link
Weeeiiiird. I've never been able to get into Avalanches, but I guess it's cool to see them pay tribute to David.
― ☮️ (peace, man), Thursday, 26 March 2020 20:03 (three years ago) link
i'm sure this is in this thread elsewhere, but
https://youtu.be/7XTrz0yvxe0
― circa1916, Thursday, 26 March 2020 20:08 (three years ago) link
Oh, I didn't know they had worked together.
― ☮️ (peace, man), Thursday, 26 March 2020 20:14 (three years ago) link
i'm sure this is in this thread elsewhere, buthttps://youtu.be/7XTrz0yvxe0🕸
― Fizzles, Thursday, 26 March 2020 20:17 (three years ago) link
i've listened to this album far more than any other over the past 8 months.
― treeship., Thursday, 26 March 2020 20:27 (three years ago) link
good album. one year. miss him.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 7 August 2020 18:12 (three years ago) link
<3
― the quar on drugs (Simon H.), Friday, 7 August 2020 18:16 (three years ago) link
It doesn’t seem like a year but here we are. On 8/7/19 the world lost one of the greats. I was lucky to call him a friend & a mentor; he was that & more for so many. Tried to think of a way to mark the date w/o focusing on the awful end. Here’s my idea. Tomorrow at @tresgatosjp. pic.twitter.com/VIYESE6T7l— Ryan H. Walsh (@JahHills) August 6, 2020
― mizzell, Friday, 7 August 2020 18:16 (three years ago) link
From someone's private collection:
"Dime Map Of The Reef"https://i.imgur.com/ah2mX4l.jpg
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 8 August 2020 05:41 (three years ago) link
And housed within the song's designIs the ghost the host has left behindTo greet and sweep the guest insideStoke the fire and sing his lines
― Mule, Sunday, 9 August 2020 12:51 (three years ago) link
that's a very nice image. but somehow i find self-referential lyrics still very heavy especially when they anticipate the disappearance of the songwriter. there is something coquettish about it. on the other hand there is also something very resolute about it. but of course i would have preferred him to be inconsistent, i.e. to write that song and not do it.
― walking towards the sun since 2007 (alex in mainhattan), Sunday, 9 August 2020 20:03 (three years ago) link
I don't take those lines as self-referential, or anticipating his suicide, necessarily. It's just a lovely way of saying that something of the songwriter lies within every song, forever. Taken with the lines before it, and the overall theme of the song, for me it evokes how a great piece of music can make you feel less alone, warm, comforted, human.
― triggercut, Monday, 10 August 2020 00:47 (three years ago) link
Yeah, I agree with that. There’s of course added poignancy following his death, but the lines stand out for me first and foremost because his songs are really like that, they are places you can go and experience the sensibilities, wit and intellect of a really special songwriter.
― Mule, Monday, 10 August 2020 06:34 (three years ago) link
I find PM to be quite a hopeful record for the most part tbh
― the quar on drugs (Simon H.), Monday, 10 August 2020 15:00 (three years ago) link
I dunno. Songs 1, 2, 3 and 8 are pretty devastating.
― Duke, Monday, 10 August 2020 15:55 (three years ago) link
of all the songs on the snow is falling in manhattan is the least grim to me and the most pretty and kind
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 10 August 2020 16:05 (three years ago) link
I agree
― Duke, Monday, 10 August 2020 16:18 (three years ago) link
I also thought the new record seemed hopeful, then and now. Obviously presenting super heavy stuff, but in a way that felt like ripping off a band aid rather than diving into the abyss or w/e. Ending it with "Stoyline Fever" and "Maybe I'm the Only One For Me" seemed like a big statement to me, a powerful combination of songs that seems to have something to say about how with some work you may discover that you're bigger than your problems. I couldnt really get on board when after his death people started parsing the lyrics for any reference to absence, exit, or finality as saying that the record felt like a suicide note, I just didn't see it. (Also I feel like if David Berman actually sat down and wanted to do a Blackstar-style album about his own impending death, it would be like 100x more scary and intense than PM.)
That being said I've barely been able to listen to it since his passing, aside from "Snow" which I'm more & more convinced is the best thing he ever did.
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Monday, 10 August 2020 16:28 (three years ago) link
^all OTM
― Washington Foosball Team (morrisp), Monday, 10 August 2020 16:33 (three years ago) link
That's a take I would like to believe in even if I'm not sure. Definitely OTM about "Snow", however.
― Mom jokes are his way of showing affection (to your mom) (PBKR), Monday, 10 August 2020 16:43 (three years ago) link
I don't find the album that depressing, there's a lot of funny stuff
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 10 August 2020 16:49 (three years ago) link
depressing is never depressing because it's ~relatable~
― Thicc Nhat Wanh (rip van wanko), Monday, 10 August 2020 16:57 (three years ago) link
I still have trouble listening to it (or any Silver Jews, to be honest). i'll dig back in at some point, but for now it feels rough.
― tylerw, Monday, 10 August 2020 16:57 (three years ago) link
"Nights That Won't Happen" does feel a bit morbid now, I admit.
― the quar on drugs (Simon H.), Monday, 10 August 2020 17:14 (three years ago) link
very much so. i think the album is full of really sad, poignant observations on life, much like his other albums. squint a little bit and you can see hints of the darkness to come, both on PM and the earlier SJ albums, but you can also see him coming to grips with what it would mean to push on. it's all of those things, throughout his work.
― The GOAT Harold Land (Karl Malone), Monday, 10 August 2020 17:17 (three years ago) link
It's very probably not a deliberate "suicide note", but describing an album containing the thoughts of Nights... or That's Just... or All My Happiness... as "hopeful" just seems way off to me. He was in a bad place.
― Duke, Monday, 10 August 2020 20:02 (three years ago) link
it's hopeful to me because, for the most part, it seems like he was making an effort. there's hope in the effort.
― the quar on drugs (Simon H.), Monday, 10 August 2020 20:07 (three years ago) link
the weird thing about people who kill themselves is often that just before they do it, they seem happy and relaxed. when the decision is made there must be a big load coming off their back.
― walking towards the sun since 2007 (alex in mainhattan), Monday, 10 August 2020 21:04 (three years ago) link
personally that's not the vibe I get tbh
― the quar on drugs (Simon H.), Monday, 10 August 2020 21:30 (three years ago) link
i think it's an album about facing depression, frankly, with humility and humor. the self-deprecating parts of the album are humane, not self-lacerating, and actually finding that narrow line and walking it.
― treeship., Monday, 10 August 2020 21:36 (three years ago) link
the disease took him in the end but this is the testimony of a survivor. if it wasn't, then "nights that won't happen" would have been the final track rather than "maybe i'm the only one for me."
― treeship., Monday, 10 August 2020 21:37 (three years ago) link
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 10 August 2020 21:38 (three years ago) link
Has this made the rounds? I found it today and it made me smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXLcpX2xUt4
For all his grouchy reclusive mystique, I get the impression that it seems like he really enjoyed dishing out little bits of himself like that, little painless things that he knew people would find special.
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 14:59 (three years ago) link
Mounting mileage on the dashDouble darkness falling fastI keep stressing, pressing onWay deep down at some substratumFeels like something really wrong has happenedAnd I confess I'm barely hanging on
― circa1916, Saturday, 15 August 2020 18:32 (three years ago) link
Yeah, I don’t know if it’s worth arguing whether this album is hopeful or resigned. It’s both. Guy was obviously in a battle. Love it to so much though, still finding corners and lines from it that hit me hard a zillion listens in.
― circa1916, Saturday, 15 August 2020 18:36 (three years ago) link
xpost those lines are so good
― alpine static, Saturday, 15 August 2020 20:46 (three years ago) link
Just saw this pop up on Spotify, haven't listened yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDE6_NUqagE
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Friday, 13 November 2020 17:52 (three years ago) link
could not get through more than 10 seconds of that garbage
― a (waterface), Monday, 16 November 2020 13:00 (three years ago) link
some old correspondence from DC Berman to Arthurt, 2004
https://arthurmag.com/2021/10/27/you-cannot-underestimate-how-big-a-deal-this-hair-thing-was-at-the-time-david-berman-on-a-certain-shift-in-punk-culture-in-the-1980s/
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 27 October 2021 23:12 (two years ago) link
is that Shakey’s brother or did I conflate some weird ilx dreams w reality
― caddy lac brougham? (will), Thursday, 28 October 2021 00:19 (two years ago) link
It is.
― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 28 October 2021 05:12 (two years ago) link
?
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 28 October 2021 05:19 (two years ago) link
(Arthur Mag’s Jay B.)
― caddy lac brougham? (will), Thursday, 28 October 2021 12:50 (two years ago) link
Yeah, been going through the old drives and email folders. I also recently posted an Actual Air-era transcript of an interview I did with DCB; only a very small part of it was published. Happy to share it, nice to remember him just riffing and laughing.
https://jaybabcock.wordpress.com/2021/10/25/live-from-mallard-crossing-david-berman-on-actual-air-interviewed-by-jay-babcock-1999/
― jaywbabcock, Thursday, 28 October 2021 18:29 (two years ago) link
nice, thank you for posting that!
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 28 October 2021 18:42 (two years ago) link
thanks for posting this archival and new(ish) stuff, it's been a real joy to see this stuff pop up on the Twitter timeline
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 28 October 2021 19:31 (two years ago) link
LONG LIVE ARTHUR MAGAZINE
― tylerw, Thursday, 28 October 2021 19:36 (two years ago) link
^^ hell yeah
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 28 October 2021 19:37 (two years ago) link
also i didn't know about the shakey connection, that is cool as well. i miss shakey over here
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 28 October 2021 19:38 (two years ago) link
Silver Jewel.
― pplains, Thursday, 28 October 2021 20:44 (two years ago) link
The pleasure is mine. I wish I had kept more of our correspondence/etc., but I think this is all there is. Always wonderful to hear from David. Such a bright spark.
― jaywbabcock, Friday, 29 October 2021 16:21 (two years ago) link
Purple Mountains is still a gut punch of a listen. Especially that incredible run from All My Happiness is Gone through Nights That Won't Happen. It seems like so many different ways, equally true, of experiencing and expressing grief. "She's Making Friends, I'm Turning Stranger" manages to perfectly capture that kind of long-term dissolution of a relationship, where you can see it coming and the depression just piles on itself. "Margaritas at the Mall", drinking and temporary rallies alternating with sincere laments that god isn't saying anything, even if you're listening. then the devastating Nights That Won't Happen, which has a heartbreak for the future that isn't wild or rash but is instead well-considered. Knowing that his actions would cause such horrible harm to others, and believing it was still the best decision. that is really hard to capture, and somehow he got the words down and the Woods' arrangement was there in the perfect way for it.
All of that makes Snow is Falling in Manhattan hit even harder, in the middle. It's so melancholy, but it's also like a little light, a very humble grasp toward comfort.
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 11 August 2022 18:30 (one year ago) link
Great post KM, thanks for that and a reminder to pull this one out again.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 11 August 2022 18:44 (one year ago) link
still find it kind of tough to listen to Berman! but I'm sure I'll get back into it.
― tylerw, Thursday, 11 August 2022 18:53 (one year ago) link
big credit has to go to Woods for much of the music and arrangements. I've always enjoyed their musical aesthetic but have been mostly indifferent to the singing and lyrics. in my mind they were a great match for berman. they have a natural tendency toward the light in their music, and at times on purple mountains they sound like they're almost pulling berman along with them to get it done. even in the more poppy songs, he sings stuff like "i confess i'm barely hanging on..." and the music, aptly, hangs uneasily there for a bit before the thwops of the snare drum snap him into the first chorus. there are lots of little moments like that. it's hard to listen to at times, but everything is in there for a reason
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 11 August 2022 18:58 (one year ago) link
https://www.stereogum.com/2196025/bonnie-prince-billy-shares-cover-of-the-ramones-outsider-recorded-with-david-berman/music/
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 11 August 2022 19:47 (one year ago) link
xp - yeah, I was glad to see your appreciation for Woods, I think they brought a lot to that record (though I've been a big fan of them for awhile anyway)
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 11 August 2022 19:52 (one year ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XTrz0yvxe0
― calstars, Thursday, 11 August 2022 21:20 (one year ago) link
https://www.creem.com/fresh-creem/david-berman-purple-mountains-final-days-feature
― fpsa, Friday, 9 December 2022 19:14 (one year ago) link
Looks promising, but damn paywall.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 9 December 2022 19:17 (one year ago) link
Straight forward to join for a month, if you haven't previously done so.
― djh, Friday, 9 December 2022 19:57 (one year ago) link
Happy should be 57th birthday. Still miss you.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 4 January 2024 21:19 (two months ago) link
The bareness and honesty in that Purple Mountains record is extraordinary. There's nothing quite like it. I loved his art.
― kraudive, Thursday, 4 January 2024 21:58 (two months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvogt_5lhkM
― corrs unplugged, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 12:47 (six days ago) link
incredible
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 13 March 2024 12:49 (six days ago) link
So great
― H.P, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 13:32 (six days ago) link
Good candidate for Artist-specific music jokes
― enochroot, Thursday, 14 March 2024 01:39 (five days ago) link
Someone apparently asked Gate Pratt about this and he said he had never seen the show when he wrote the original that was sent to Berman. (Berman finished writing it and later arranged it with Woods.) It is amusing how they have a similar vibe though.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 14 March 2024 04:28 (five days ago) link
Huh, weird that Gate Pratt doesn't get a writing credit on that one. (He does get one on "Maybe I'm the Only One...") Not that I don't believe him, and this was pretty clearly a coincidence in any case.
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Thursday, 14 March 2024 16:35 (five days ago) link