When the World is Running Down, You Make the POLL of What's Still Around – ILM Artist Poll #116 – THE POLICE - (Voting extended to Friday, Dec 2, 2022)

https://i.imgur.com/Ii22Xoc.jpg

Ballot Part One (Mandatory) - Your Top 20 tracks by The Police (or less min. 5). Please order your list with #1 at the top and #20 at the bottom, no need to number them.

Ballot Part Two (Optional) – Your Top 5 albums by The Police or any album that they are involved in (or less min. 2).

Ballot Part Three (Optional) - Your Top 10 solo tracks that has Sting, Andy or Stewart on them, “Money for Nothing” of course counts here (or less min. 2).

Please send ballot to: thepolicepoll AT gmail (please include your username).

Voting is open until Sunday, Nov 27th, 2022 Midnight Pacific Time Zone.

I wrestled with part three as I don’t really have any interest in the solo stuff and was going to ask the board if I should even bother. Decided, that if you are running an artist poll then you should go all in. I might even be able to come up with five tracks myself.

They broke up the year I was born but still were my favorite band as a kid. I listened to their CDs so many times. Even my Mom was like “uhh maybe you wanna try Billy Joel?” Nah. Fuck Billy Joel. Anyway I’ll be the guy voting a lot of the goofy album tracks but I will say I heard “Synchronicity II” at a grocery store last week and still think that’s the coolest fuckin tune

Doesn't really count for part three, but I had no idea Andy was the band director for Dennis Miller's first talk show. (Gig didn't last long. Leno apparently sabotaged Miller's shows, telling guests they couldn't be on his show if they appeared on Miller's first. When ratings tanked and retooling began, Andy apparently saw where this was going and abandoned ship.)

*Miller's show

I'm here to vote for the second side of GITM.

FWIW, I have a real soft spot for the Police. I was definitely aware of Sting growing up, but only through his ubiquitous TV presence (car commercials, etc.) I didn't know he was with the Police but recognized two or three of their songs that really appealed to me. It was a nice surprise when I found out he was in the group - it was almost like finding out McCartney was a Beatle, it really changed my impression of them.

Regarding part three, can we include stuff like "Red Rain" with Stewart on hi-hat?

Also, just to confirm, are covers excluded (like Johnny Cash's "Hung My Head")?

Here's an Andy Summers deep cut featuring Sting on bass. Sounds like a cross between ... well, it sounds like some of Sting's solo stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B4PN4xoiJQ

Speaking of guitarists gone solo, Stewart plays a lot of the drums on this forgotten Mike Rutherford solo album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa2QbwNsv1U

For any fans of "Driven to Tears," let me suggest this version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCH-OcHQOdo

Andy was very proud of his solo on this version, so even though the sound fidelity isn't the best, that solo is enough to lift it above the studio version for me.

I've got a list of 19 songs I can get behind from the five albums, should I bother to listen to the Flexible Strategies b-side comp to find one more? And what about the newly released "alternate sequence" of Ghost in the Machine?

is “lucid dreams” by juice wrld eligible for ballot three?

Regarding part three, can we include stuff like "Red Rain" with Stewart on hi-hat?

Also, just to confirm, are covers excluded (like Johnny Cash's "Hung My Head")?

Yes, when I say sole I'm of the mind anything that they're involved in.

Not inclined to have covers here tho if we want to discuss this here, I'm willing to change my mind on this part.

Nah, I think we're good without including covers.

This is weird. A Doors reunion, without Morrison obviously, but with Stewart Copeland adding his distinctive drumming...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t0VQzIRnOY

I. Burn. For. You.

I’ve always really likeed shadows in the rain it seems to describe the way I feel much of the time in life

I meant solo and not sole for what its worth

For those who think "Next To You" isn't new wave enough, there's always Klark Kent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzFVRm6EwLg

hello i might do a ballot for this one, love those police boys

Forgot Sting was on Lost in the Stars: The Music of Kurt Weill. Surprisingly great album, it's out-of-print but shouldn't be too hard to find. I found a used CD for about $15.

For your consideration in part 3 of the poll (Sting on bass):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJjTZtdZ5qg

is “lucid dreams” by juice wrld eligible for ballot three?

― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Thursday, November 10, 2022 1:36 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

this q was not a joke btw (well only half a joke)

Mad that I am not the first person to post the amazing "Don't Care" by Klark Kent in this thread

is “lucid dreams” by juice wrld eligible for ballot three?

― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Thursday, November 10, 2022 1:36 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

this q was not a joke btw (well only half a joke)

ok, make an argument for its inclusion

whole song is an interpolation of “shape of my heart” and sting is a credited writer

Mad that I am not the first person to post the amazing "Don't Care" by Klark Kent in this thread

on the subject of songs sampling the Police, I would like to campaign (if eligible) for Talib Kweli ft John Legend - "Around My Way" - chorus is a heavy sample of "Every Little Thing She Does is Magic" verse and quite sublime imo. Don't know if it ends up with a writer's credit though

Regardless of how much you like the songs including samples - - why would you vote for something that the artist being polled had no intentionality or involvement in? Would you vote for "Can I Kick It?" in a VU/Lou Reed poll?

Hmm.

Chinchilla what do you think the value and purpose of these polls is? I mean it’s not like Sting is going to be giving an acceptance speech when the #1 song is revealed.

In other words, just trying to spread good music around

Voted! This one was fun to think about. My first stab at a shortlist gave me 21 songs, so it wasn't hard to winnow down.

honestly have zero clue what my top 10's gonna look like. I really like a lot of the wonkier songs on Reggatta which are barely tunes but feature really cool playing, like "Contact" and "Deathwish"

I'm not going to restrict anything here even if I do agree with Chinchilla Volapük.

So everything is opened up for you who wish to vote for samples in songs.

And don't forget King of Suede by Weird Al (credit: Sting, Yankovic).

what about Velvet Elvis

Sting's greatest performance as a solo artist is on Miles Davis's You're Under Arrest.

Voice [French Policeman] – Sting

what about Velvet Elvis

Sure, why not

tbc i'm not actually voting for any of these tracks. i participate in polls purely, just want to make sure all are aware of weird al's imo superior police parody

still like this sting appearance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNYwJP8Sfq4
eberhard schoener - why don't you answer?

actually andy and stewart were on that too iirc?

I might actively enjoy 10 solo tracks. At least half are Klark Kent.

what about Velvet Elvis

Better than Locked Out of Heaven.

I don't think I have the requisite ilm skilz to correctly vote in this poll, but Regatta de Blanc is (and forever shall be) my muthaflipping jam.

a nice eno-esque piece from the second album andy did w/ fripp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ7TQZgcscM
Andy Summers / RObert Fripp - Bewitched

Forgot Oysterhead existed until now

have posted this before but andy plays on it and it absolutely smokes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_aAsg2UTZo
Eric Burdon & The Animals - Coloured Rain

^ middle three minutes is just one epic guitar blaze up, not sure if it's andy or the other guy?

I like "Radon Balloon" and "Birthday Boy" on the Oysterhead CD more than anything Phish ever did honestly

Funny how a thread on the merits of the Police is mostly the Police as sidemen.

this is a track off stewart's first appearance on a record:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8w8ArmII-Y
Frolk Haven - Quest

weird fact: contains the lyrics "have you ever failed your part of the dream / as an organ of the soft machine?" - andy was previously a member of the soft machine but it didn't work out. synchronicity eh? would be a cooler story if he played the organ not the guitar though obv, but i guess mike ratledge had that job nailed down

Ballots are trickling in, will send out conformation emails but not yet.

Underrated Sting appearance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRLBIr5CBLI

those Fripp/Summers records are fantastic, both of them

this is proving pretty hard!

where is the love for 'all for love'?

also any takers for this?

https://cdn.ontourmedia.io/sting/non_secure/images/20220421/shaggy1650551307/shaggy1650551307.jpg

I have listened to each Police album twice now and getting that part of my ballot completed in my mind. Thanks everyone for the clips in this thread as the solo stuff is my next step.

I voted for two things off the Brimstone & Treacle soundtrack, and could have voted for more.

I will defend "Mother."

That is all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkB67-TIDsg

I'm definitely voting for Mother. I mean come on.

definitely gonna try and bang out a ballot for this!!

the Kent 10" is full of great jams, with "Away From Home" being the best, next to "Don't Care":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99c8HMxtg-Q

as far as barely-eligible covers, samples, etc. go, i just want to share out The Blow's bedroom-pop interpretation of "Everything She Does is Magic," "Come on Petunia," which first grabbed me on a mixtape left behind in a well-intentioned but under-used DIY "recess center" in 2004:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO1HSfzK1Ns

a lot of the best Klark Kent stuff isn't on the 10", you gotta get the Kollected Works CD for everything. if you like that stuff I highly recommend the Gizmodrome album, or even better the live album. I know a lot of people were disappointed in it but I think that was mostly because it was marketed as some crazy prog supergroup when it's really just Klark Kent with a better backing band.

surprised myself by including three copeland songs on my longlist. one of them will def make my final ballot

The Mother debate should be interesting and do wonder where it will end up.

Controp: the stingster's contribution to long long way to go > his contribution to money for nothing

Although money for nothing is a better song

Sidenote: I first typed monet for nothing, and I giggled imagining a very good art transaction

Also, I sing Come on Petunia to the tune of Billy Joel's "Only the Good Die Young."

Come on Petunia, don't make me wait

Controp: the stingster's contribution to long long way to go > his contribution to money for nothing

otm

"Long Long Way to Go" is a better song and record.

Voted.

Voted - I think this was the easiest ballot I've ever had to compile, 20 tracks is the perfect number for these guys.

^^^ same, this went really quickly. In theory I could have done some dedicated listening to Zenyatta and Ghost, the albums I know the least well, but I think I've got a pretty great set of tracks here in an order I could more or less defend. Feel like there'll be a lot of little things to discuss and praise with the rollout!

Voted! Didn't think about it too hard, mostly went on vibes. Really looking forward to this rollout.

Every time I see this thread title, the song comes into my head and I get lost in its groove, so maybe that tells me what my favourite Police song is.

growing up the Sting Bring on the Night live CD was playing constantly so it was pretty strange to hear the original versions of When the World is Running Down, One World, Demolition Man, & Bring on the Night. I think they work in both contexts but the arrangements are so much different it really does show what the other two brought to the band

I really like that live album, as far as solo Sting goes. But yeah, the jazz-funk vibe is very different from the Police.

Maybe I should have re-listened before voting but I've listened to these records so much in my life (OK except "Ghost") that I voted based on what I felt like hearing when I saw the title.

voted!

Voted

Ghost In The Machine became my #1 over the last 5-6 years. I get it now.

Aside from "One World" it's probably their least corniest album. And "One World" isn't even that corny.

one world is fun. didn’t sniff my list but heard it in a department store recently and it was great department store music

It's so hard to hear Synchronicity side 2 with fresh ears. Do I squeeze them in or drop them in favor of challopsy picks?

GITM has Copeland and Summers' best songs.

Saturday night I went to my local bar and a jam band was doing a cover of Driven to Tears with a saxophone rave-up in the middle that kind of sounded like Can't You Hear Me Knocking. Pretty sweet.

Alfred - Do you mean because there are so few of them?

Personally I prefer RDB because it more of a group effort. GITM is Sting with special guests.

yeah

Speaking of non-corny, relistening to “Rehumanize Yourself” (which was on my ballot) made me think it’s Sting’s best didactic song. The verses have a punky directness that holds up.

Rehumanize Yourself was the first time I heard the c-word in a song as a kid, closely followed by Two Swords by The Beat, in both instances it's used for far-right racists. That was my early-years anti-fash education

Same, it was shocking especially to American ears because we don't have the same colloquial use of it.

Can’t recommend this enough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w71K0ff1VBs

I recently rewatched that actually - having loved it when it was released - and although the musical segments are fantastic I was floored by how mindblowingly precious and pretentious Sting is throughout. He sounds like someone who believes his own PR. The rest of the band are relaxed and stunningly capable, and the performances are loose and vibey ("Consider Me Gone" etc.) but the "portrait of a genius" element is grating.

We got into double digits over the weekend, there is still plenty of time to vote.

Didn't Sting switch to guitar for Blue Turtles?

He plays guitar on much of the live solo stuff, yes. That said, iirc he played the guitar first, so the characterization may be somewhere between switching and switching back.

(obligatory apology for boring semantic distinction)

yeah, rightly or wrongly, I assume so-called bassists switch often, especially if they're songwriters (and plenty of guitarists switch to bass when needed).

My impression of Sting is that he's a capable guitarist but a terrific bass player. (I don't know enough to assess his lute abilities.)

if I made a list of the Top 10 lutists off the top of my head he would probably be on it yeah

Sting Bring on the Night live CD

Iirc, live CDs; I think it was spread across two!

One of the last times I saw Sting he played "Message in a Bottle" on a classical guitar, replete with food propped up on stand, and ... he fucked it up a bit! It's hard to play, that song. Anyway, he's a great bassist, but only a functional guitarist.

xpost Here's Sting playing the Hurdy-gurdy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg-0KXjGyGE

And here's my brother in law, who looks remarkably like Sting:

https://i.imgur.com/G31S0Qi.jpg

(I don't know enough to assess his lute abilities.)

Oh, I think you know plenty!

uhh he looks like all 3 morphed into 1 person

In other words, Sting's dream.

controp: Andy is an extremely skilled guitar player, among my personal icons, blah blah blah. Mad props to him.

But I don't believe for a second that he wrote or originated the guitar lines of "Every Breath You Take" or "Roxanne" or most of the Po-Pos' hits. Those were the work of mr. tantra ego yoga blondie-bear infuriating sweater guy.

It pains me to grudgingly admit it. But The Stingster, for all his well-documented personal faults, did bring a level of songwriting creativity that the others simply could not match.

The lute shit is boring, so at least we have that to fall back on when we want to tear down the rock icon.

A song like Roxanne, I imagine that was a band taking his pretty basic blueprint and making it more interesting. but Every Breath, if Sting came up with that guitar part, Sting would claim credit for that guitar part.

in fact, guitar part aside, that song is a pretty run in the mill doo wop progression by way of Leo Sayer.

sting did claim all credit for the guitar part, and the rest of the song

he's the only credited writer, including on "i'll be missing you" which prominently uses the guitar

absolutely. but Sting has never claimed to come up with the guitar part.

There's that infamous interview with the three of them c. the reunion where Stewart basically calls Sting on it, and Sting's response is more or less tough shit.

yeah i mean according to the legal standard for songwriting copyright, if you wrote the melody and the lyrics, you wrote the song.

Hate to disagree with the ilx braintrust but.

I am watching the "Bring on the Night" doc right now.

What Darryl Jones is playing is light years ahead of what Sting would ever have played. Sting is a good bass player with a great pocket, but he is not even in Darryl's league technically. Darryl effortlessly does runs that Sting would never even attempt.

Similarly, Sting cannot play the guitar as accurately as Andy. Very few people can.

But who the hell do you think _came up with_ the chuggy rising-then-falling arpeggio of "Every Breath You Take," and its subtle modulation as the verse progresses? Personally my theory is that Sting wrote and it and played it - maybe a bit ham-handedly - once. Andy listened and said, "right, mate" and proceeded to execute it perfectly, for decades, because he is a highly fucking skilled musician. Doesn't mean that he came up with it, or that he could have or would have.

Who deserves more credit is not for me to decide, nor how to apportion credit.

is there a thread where that is discussed? (songwriting / copyright conventions)

always thought that the “play it on a piano/acoustic guitar” model of ownership was pretty uncool and inaccurate in the pop realm

i once read that Roxy Music split their royalties into words / music / arrangements, with everyone who played on a track receiving a piece of the latter

it may be untrue or I misunderstood- but it seems like a much fairer way of doing it

i think i agree with you re: "every breath you take," but summers is a very creative player. that solo from "driven to tears" is advanced stuff

the melody/lyrics convention is very old fashioned and comes from the days when the primary distribution method for music was through sheet

just saying, Andy has told the story of coming up with that guitar part over and over again. If it weren't true, Sting would have called him on it

emsworth, we have totally discussed it but I am not sure in what thread. I will try to find it.

Infamously, the Miles Davis recording of "My Favorite Things" is credited solely to Rodgers and Hammerstein even though each individual soloist improvised their part completely from scratch. ILX came down firmly on the side of the performance being the composition, and the Tin Pan Alley definition of songwriting / copyright is utterly out of date. I do not disagree with that assessment.

That said, I still think that if Andy Summers could have written songs as catchy as Sting wrote, he would have done so. He has had ample opportunity. Apologies for choosing the wrong example. The other policemen are very skilled musicians, and I adore them. But Infuriating Sweater Guy has repeatedly shown that he has a greater ability to create lasting melodies and lyrics. It's okay to recognize that, just as it's okay to recognize similar estimations of other popular rock and roll bands, e.g., the Beatles.

There has been talk of how certain bands divide songwriting royalties on ILX. For example, Radiohead, Coldplay, Chili peppers, u2, I think they all split songwriting credit equally. REM did, too. probably a handful of other high profile acts. probably goes a long way toward promoting longevity if you're not always fighting about money.

IIRC, Sting originated "EBYT" on an organ - stop sniggering - and as JiC noted above, at its core it's based around a bog-standard progression. Summers' big contribution was to add ninths into some of the chord arpeggios - I think he said his inspiration came from listening to Béla Bartók - which made the harmonic structure sound much more sophisticated.

Ferry takes the lion's share of the credit on Roxy songs, with Manzanera and McKay earning credit on material starting on Stranded. Eddie Jobson got credit on one song.

xp Yeah I don't know enough to know, but I've been told by guitarists that the guitar part to Every Breath only sounds simple and is surprisingly intricate to play. Plus of course just the metronomic precision of it.

as an extremely modest guitarist, I can say that Every Breath You Take is kind of a pain in the ass to play, especially if you have small hands.

(modestly skilled, that is)

same thing with "message in a bottle"! lots of four fret spreads, which i cannot do with my stubby fingers

My guitar teacher once pointed out that Message in a Bottle, which also features essentially a song length guitar solo in the background, also has all these subtle harmonic counterpoints to the main guitar riff. it's one of the few Police songs with tons of guitar parts.

(xp)
One thing that's interesting to me is that I assume Summers himself has relatively small hands, because my impression is that he's a small-ish guy. In the band photos, the other two tower over him. Maybe his fingers are unusually long.

xp yeah, Paul Davids did a whole video on that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAp_1vgGWxA

xp he's mentioned that he has small hands, i think he moves his hands on the neck very quickly

Imagine if Andy had run against Trump in 2016!

anyway, just voted. prob could've gone up to 25

I originally had a Top 25 but my research found the Police only released 69 songs. So a Top 25 seemed to be too many and changed it to 20. I think overall it works better but yeah, I'm sure I could have picked more too.

I think the challenge may be that, thanks to Stew and Andy in particular, even their worst songs (or most non-songs) sound great or have interesting things going on.

Never really thought about this song much before because I never feel the urge to pull that album out, but had the Police been listening to Can before they made this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0k6nXLwZrY

I think I've made this comparison before but a lot of the grief in Mike Doughty's book about Soul Coughing is rooted in this same argument. He wrote the chords, the melody, the words, the "song" as it's defined legally....and yet there is no question that the band never would've made it anywhere if not for the other three dudes in the band. But while I think SC is more like Can where the playing is the whole point - like, who cares who actually wrote "Mushroom" or "I'm So Green" - Sting's songs were fairly well-developed and clever. Stew could write some good tunes, maybe Andy could too (I really love "Omegaman" and placed it quite high, but I don't think he has another song like it in his catalogue), but Sting wrote the hits, so he's the man.

"Every Breath You Take" is a fun example because I could argue that what Andy does to that guitar riff really *makes* the song (which has probably earned the band some 50 million dollars on its own? Or more?), the truth is it would've been huge even if Andy bungled the hell out of it, because The Police were just that fucking big in 1983. But! Why were they so big in 1983? Was it because of the cool & crisp instrumental playing of their first 3 records? Well, Stewart certainly thinks so. He has a point too. It's very hard to say.

the truth is it would've been huge even if

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=837k74c4rHQ

Have seen an interview with Andy where he talks about his guitar playing on 'Bring On the Night' and how he based those lovely arpeggios that you can hear during the verses on stuff that he learned from studying the guitar compositions of Villa-Lobos at California State University, and that atmosphere he creates really makes the song for me. Take one guess who gets the sole writing credit for it?

imo there is no way the Police ever got reMOTEly as big without the things Summers and Copeland do, on every single one of their hits. they're always kicking the energy up more and more, turning pretty good songs into incredible earworms and electrifying toe-tappers, or sketching out all this atmosphere and space and emotional depth. i'm sure when i was a teen i thought of them as Sting and two faceless other guys who got super lucky, but once i really started paying attention to their music it was obvious they were anything but that.

which has probably earned the band some 50 million dollars on its own? Or more?

apparently it earns sting $2000 a day.

Infamously, the Miles Davis recording of "My Favorite Things" is credited solely to Rodgers and Hammerstein even though each individual soloist improvised their part completely from scratch. ILX came down firmly on the side of the performance being the composition, and the Tin Pan Alley definition of songwriting / copyright is utterly out of date. I do not disagree with that assessment.

This problem would be solved if performers/recording artists received royalties in all the same situations as songwriters and publishers, but don't say composing/songwriting doesn't exist when 95% of professionally released music depends on some form of the craft.

split songwriting credit equally...probably goes a long way toward promoting longevity if you're not always fighting about money.

Unless one guy (let's call him Sting) is actually writing (or originating) the hit songs and resents splitting with the others. Anyone feeling aggrieved for Summers and Copeland should remember that they would have shared in album sales (when those meant something) and concert grosses over and above songwriting royalties; and, even their one song apiece on Synchronicity probably made them each six figures with roughly zero airplay.

Also, "official" songwriting credits are sometimes not the entire story. In Jethro Tull, for instance, Ian Anderson would take almost total credit but earnings for certain songs with contributions from other members would be paid "informally" via the Tull management.

Just to be clear (I probably wasn't) I agree 200% with Doctor Casino. The music is the performance done by the people, and that is what lasts.

However- I am kind of also interested in the germ of a particular idea, and that is also salient. No, a Stingian idea is not (on its own) a song by the Police.

But one can also ask - how many songs by the Police would exist without Stingian ideas? Not as many, probably. He is an insufferable asshole and I am sure I would want to punch him in the face more or less constantly if I were in a band with him. But he was a creative catalyst, and that needs to be factored into our assessment of the band.

Upthread we mused about the Police with a different drummer, and how boring it would be.

But to continue the thought experiment: imagine a band consisting of excellent guitarist Andy Summers, exciting drummer Stewart Copeland, and a good bass player like... I dunno, Tony Butler or Kim Deal or John Taylor or Benjamin Orr.

How well would that band do, chartwise? Where would its songs come from? What would be its overall creative direction?

I totally get the impulse to say that Sting would have sucked without the other Policemen. But it's equally true that without him, the other two would have lacked a space in which to work their specific magic.

I say split it all equally. Why not? The resentment isn't worth it, for anybody involved. If you're raking in millions and millions of dollars for your rock band that might just as easily have run out of steam after six weeks, you should be delighted that your bandmates are also now millionaires, and not waste a moment going down the path of wondering if you deserve more credit than they do...

well, one of them does live in a castle

time traveling Kim Deal plus Summers and Copeland sounds incredible, imo!

btw "how far would they make it" is kind of an unfair question given what we know about Miles Copeland and his aggressive marketing techniques. like how far would they make it if they weren't all blonde and didn't have a singer who looked like a movie star

Just to be clear (I probably wasn't) I agree 200% with Doctor Casino. The music is the performance done by the people, and that is what lasts.

So songwriters shouldn't receive any royalties at all?

to be clear summers and copeland do receive royalties for their performances on all the recordings, they just don’t get publishing on sting’s “solo” compositions

so they didn’t benefit from the puff daddy windfall, and they don’t get paid when “every breath” is played on the radio (more than any song in fm history)

Generally I love the model of splitting money and credit equally - I am on record as loving how REM and U2 both did precisely this.

But I believe we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

1. Yes absolutely we can and should praise and reward instrumentalists (who, almost always, write their own parts).

2. But also yes, there actually IS something notable going on when someone initiates the process of original songwriting in the form of lyrics, melody.

I think we can honor both #1 and #2 without risk of hypocrisy. We don't need to overcompensate to redress a historical imbalance.

right, which is why performing artists in bands or on session sheets earn royalties when a recording is purchased or streamed

there actually IS something notable going on when someone initiates the process of original songwriting

And songwriting is work that takes time and effort.

Xxxxxxxpost to self

I was obv way off re Roxy

Because music publishing operates according to an antiquated, pre-rock conception of composition that rewards those who write the top-line melody and lyrics, most Roxy tunes are credited solely to Ferry. "It goes back to Tin Pan Alley and the 1930s," says Manzanera. "Eno's synth part on Ladytron, Andy's oboe parts – that came from them. Each member was contributing to the music and to all the arrangements. I like to think that we produced the musical context for Bryan to put his vision into. But that's not reflected in the publishing."

It's all the more unfair because, according to Manzanera, from about halfway through For Your Pleasure and onwards, the band would write "the music first – all the music, including the solos. Then Bryan would listen to it and try to write a top-line tune and words.

From here

On the Roxy forum where I found this being discussed, someone mentioned that Blur split was 10% drummer, 20% bassist, 30% bassist and 40% singer - my anarchist ideals feel an even split is better, but that’s a non-terrible setup imo

Sorry those two big pars are quotes

Blur split was 10% drummer, 20% bassist, 30% bassist and 40% singer

Oof, poor old Graham.

Wow, did not know that re. Roxy. Some songs that makes sense—Ferry singing “You got me girl on the run round …” over the oboe melody and drone—others it seems harder to imagine. In the case of The Police, I find it hard to believe that if, say, Summers had written the riff to Message in a Bottle (not just the harmonies as the YouTuber describes upthread, as good as they are) he wouldn’t have gotten some songwriting credit. But very little ever surprises me about the music industry screwing over artists, so ...

One thing BTW that I think gets overlooked with Summers is his sound. Back when I was a teenager we used to kind of slag Summers as a player because he was almost anti-flash. But listening back, it’s clear that a huge part of what makes Police records tick is that incredibly warm chorus-y distortion he gets on his guitar. Yes he did some clever overdubbing of his parts and on later records added the Roland GR-300 guitar synth to the mix (ie, the synth wash intro to Secret Journey). But, the sound of his guitar is one of the band’s chief aural attractions and through-lines from Outlandos to Synchronicity.

Oh, absolutely. His use of the Echoplex and, later, the Memory Man was historic, but might not have been so had he not understood what kinds of chords really lent themselves well to delay. Especially since, like I mentioned, all the overdubs and whatnot in "Message..." were I think an anomaly, that's more intricate a studio production than he usually does, especially on that album. "Ghost in the Machine" is the sound of a bored Sting trying to grab full control of the band, which is why a song like "Every Little Thing" barely features any guitar at all, and you get Sting playing rudimentary horns and bringing in outside musicians and aside from the opening salvos, songs that barely count as jams and sketches.

anyone into the band's early period may wanna check this out:

https://www.discogs.com/master/243998-Strontium-90-Police-Academy

the liner notes kind of imply this was the band that led to the formation of The Police, though I think they were actually already around by then, but with Henry Padovani instead of Summers. it's a project headed up by Mike Howlett of Gong, which wound explain how he got a guy like Andy Summers. originally they wanted Chris Cutler to drum but wound up with Copeland instead. if nothing else this is what must've convinced them to go with Summers instead so I guess it's pretty important. anyway the CD is just a loose collection of demos, and a lot of it is written by Howlett, but there are some gems for the Police fan. "Visions of the Night" was re-recorded as a B-Side. the riff on "3 O'Clock Shot" was later used on "Be My Girl - Sally" and the lyrics would later show up on "O My God". there is a 4-track demo of "Every Little Thing She Does As Magic" which I think is relevant to this discussion. I think this is all Sting. the bones of the song are all there, but obviously it sounds nothing like the record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfolkO4Ninc

Heretical, I know, but I enjoy the '86 rerecording of "Don't Stand So Close to Me..."

Me too! The original is fun and spiky, but the lusher version works too. I remember it seeming like a bold move. A self-cover.

Kinda wish more bands did stuff like that. There is never just one way to interpret a song. But you have to be choosy about it.

"Ghost in the Machine" is the sound of a bored Sting trying to grab full control of the band, which is why a song like "Every Little Thing" barely features any guitar at all, and you get Sting playing rudimentary horns and bringing in outside musicians and aside from the opening salvos, songs that barely count as jams and sketches.

Yes and no. Ghost has a lot of synth and keyboard experimentation that Sting and Hugh Padgham were clearly leading, but Summers is also, as I noted, pretty present and I suspect a lot of those synthesizer riffs on the album were actually composed on the guitar by Andy. And the thing is, it works -- I mean, yes, Every Little Thing is sort of dominated by the piano -- but it is pretty simpatico with Summers’ guitar arpeggio in the verse – Summers' part almost sounds like a high speed warmup for the Every Breath riff 2 years later.

So I don’t think it was exactly just Andy sitting on the sideline and taking a dip in the pool while Sting pushed him out of the way. And, as I mentioned, Summers got in on the synthesizer act himself. Ghost is the rare record where I think “bringing in the synths“ actually works.

Yes. "Darkness"!

the Gizmodrome version of Darkness is great, I think Mark King sings it better than Sting does

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcNWlA11Llk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBOn6jsoQk

^ live version of 'Secret Journey' off GITM is pretty cool with more synth than on the album. As per the comments, Andy is on synth guitar, and Sting is apparently playing one of this things with his feet while he plays the bass:

https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/styles/news_large/s3/imagelibrary/M/MoogTaurus3_01-MsS22TpcNKTmi41G0fvKMXixwq8heEz_.jpg

whoa that actually sounds a lot like Fortress Around Your Heart. like I almost expected that chorus to come in after the mid section

Indeed!

I dunno, aside from "Demolition Man" I can't think of much Andy at all on the jammy stuff. "Hungry for You," "Too Much Information," ""One World (Not Three)"... those are the ones that are barely songs, and I can't recall off the top of my head what Andy is doing there. And as for "Demolition Man," that guitar stuff is pretty run of the mill, especially for Andy. Even the guitar synth stuff on that album is pretty simple, at least the stuff more recognizable as guitar synth. It's Andy finding something to do on tracks that don't necessarily lend themselves to what it is he does. I mean, Mike Rutherford was using guitar synths to at least trigger synth pads in a lot of Genesis, but I don't think what he was up to was particularly interesting, either. Just a way to thicken the sound a little and/or find something to do with himself.

But for sure I agree those last three songs on the album are great, because they're distinctive and weird. And I love Stew's playing on the record.

Too Much Information is so good! That afrobeat riffing in the right channel and the wah pedal on the left, bassline nicked from 'A Love Supreme'

I'm not saying they're bad or no fun, they're just not really songs, imo. Just kind of repetitive jams.

xp No wait, Hungry For You has the Love Supreme bassline, always getting those muddled in my head, pretty similar iirc

I'm not saying they're bad or no fun, they're just not really songs, imo. Just kind of repetitive jams.

Well they'd obviously been listening to Fela and a lot of jazz, so no they're not typical western rock songs but that is sort of the point

on the "covering your own song" topic: i agree! i think it's something a lot of bands work out in a live setting, which would probably be really fun and stimulating especially if you've been playing the same song another way for a long time. and maybe if you're enjoying it in that way, it doesn't seem necessary to record it... see also, bands with songs where some later, different live arrangement becomes THE definitive version, in the eyes of the fans. (is that a thread btw?)

(also: putting it on record risks giving the impression that you're desperate, out of ideas, trying to boost your new album with a whiff of past glories, etc. you have to be in a mood where you're not afraid of all that stuff.)

tbh I love the "not really a song" stuff on Zenyatta & Ghost...I guess Reggatta had some of this as well ("Deathwish"??). in retrospect this band was touring constantly and doing a bazillion interviews so it's not surprising they didn't have much time to develop actual material....so it's a testament to how great the band was that this stuff actually sounds pretty great

This re-recording of "Truth Hits Everybody" from 1983 is apparently based on the live arrangement they had been doing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYSPPfyytCs

There's some suspicion that it's actually a demo with Sting playing guitar as well as bass and programmed drums.

I'm into that, it sounds like an early Husker Du song like Amusement or something

It’s all in the Wikipedia article so hardly deep lore, but I was surprised to hear the 86 version of DSSCTM sounded so synthetic because Copeland broke his collarbone and sequenced the drum parts. No wonder it sounds leaden.
The unforgivable thing about Ghost for me is how shrill and ugly it sounds. Sting sounds like he’s being pushed against the bars of an iron fence most of the time, and when you add deliberate discord on some tracks it’s just unlistenable. Hard to believe they signed off on the mix.

"Shrill and ugly" is what I love about "Demolition Man"!

Sure, but not an entire album of it.

I used to listen to the cassette of Ghost while working my morning paper route. My brother listened to it every night at bedtime. It was a perfect album for both contexts.

I always thought the production on Ghost matched the album cover - a sea of blackness with these bright slanted shapes in the center. feels like it was recorded in a space with unknown but generally large dimensions. kind of a Robocop vibe to it.

I think I owned the record for 3 years before I understood the cover, I’d thought it was just a graphic showing malfunction and chaos.

It's kind of chilling when you figure it out.

...I always thought it was a representation of the three band members?

think I had it for 20 years before I finally figured that out! thought it was some sort of code, or an ancient script rendered in lcd, which fitted in with my understanding of Secret Journey, a song about ancient knowledge played on synths

I always thought it had a dual symbology in that it spells out "666."

Well, it seemed cool in high school.

I have never heard that the band was way into or even knew of Fela in 1981, as Talking Heads very clearly did: jazz? Yeah, Der Stingle and Andy were very much 'bout it, and Stew was very obviously familiar with non-western music, different time signatures and accents, but if someone can cite evidence of them being Fela fans, please let us know…

early this year, I heard "Synchronicity II" on Sirius, and it occurred to me that this could be the one and only song that could almost pass for a Rush-influenced Police song, whereas the advent of the Police more than anything else prompted Rush to change their shit up in '81: there are many many Police-ish Rush tunes, and the band was crystal clear in acknowledging as such. And also that Stewart surely knew of and at least appreciated Rush, due to him and Neil being at the utter zenith of the Modern Drummer milieu, whereas the other two but particularly Sting would take one look or listen to Rush and make a face like somebody let out a truly vile fart. Like, he was keeping company with McCartney and Bowie, and would tell everyone he could that Wayne Shorter and Arthur Koestler were what he was into, and Rush would be no different to Motley Crue to him…

Sting was into Koestler, Peart was more of an Ayn Rand devotee

if someone can cite evidence of them being Fela fans, please let us know…

only evidence i could give you is just listen to 'too much information'. imo there's clearly a firsthand afrobeat influence at work there.

and obviously they both did that Amnesty benefit tour later in the 80s...

https://i.ibb.co/BTBxD6H/sting-fela.jpg

and sting's definitely a fan now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk1BUJpTPM8

yeah I think a lot of people hear Rush in that track, in fact once hearing it in the grocery store my brain registered it as Rush until the vocals came in

one observation I've made is that if The Police had stayed together they would've wound up sounding like Big Generator-era Yes. not the worst thing in the world I guess, but still I think they broke up at the right time.

Stewart surely knew of and at least appreciated Rush

From RS:

-You were close to Neil Peart. I imagine you’re still in a state of shock over his death.

Yes. It took longer to hit me than his family and so on. He was a really good friend and a unique character. And a big part of my enjoyment of life was going down to the Bubba Cave and shooting the shit about cars, or him coming over here with Danny Carey and others to have it up at the Sacred Grove. I am very sad to miss those times.

When he first passed, I was pleased for him, because (his illness) was a two-to-three-year process. At one point during it, he said, “Look, I’m a year past my sell-by date. I’m still here.” And then another year went by. So when he passed, my first thought was, he had an incredible life. What a great way to go out. He saw his train coming and he got a first-class seat. That’s him. Then comes me, thinking, “Wait a minute. He’s not there anymore. I can’t call him up anymore.” I started to just miss him. I just wish he was back. Like, “That was really cool, Neil! Wow! You really aced it there, buddy! OK, you can come back now.” And that’s the part that sticks with me. I just wish he was here.

-Can you tell me about the last time you saw him?

It was at his birthday party, (four) months before he passed. He still had his dignity. You could tell he was appreciating to still be here, but you could see it was beginning to take its toll. It went from not great to really bad very quickly. It was a gradual, gradual impairment. Socially, he was still Neil. He was still the Doctor, still the Professor. Still Neptune on high! But he said, “I’m not getting on my motorcycles again and I’m not getting on a drum set anytime again.” And those were disappointments to him, but he was still glad to be here.

-Do you have a favorite memory of Neil?

A few … the favorite is bound to be him over here at the Sacred Grove. Because usually, everyone says, “Wow, saxophone! I’ve never played a saxophone!” ‘Cause I’ve got the world’s largest collection of the cheapest instruments money can buy. I’ve got one of everything. I got tuba, I got baritone saxophone, I got cello, I got timpani. Most musicians come over here, it’s like a candy store. Alex Lifeson came over here one time. Snoop Dogg comes over, he just picks up everything. Neil, he gets behind the drums and commands the chariot for the duration.

-The public perception of him was as this very quiet, serious guy. But he was obviously very funny and engaging.

Yes. Very dry, very deadpan. He had some quirks. One of the stranger quirks, which any Rush fan probably knows, or anyone who has loved Neil, (is that) he cannot take compliments. He cannot take adulation. It just touches a button. I should be speaking in past tense. He had, I suppose, a dour exterior, but that craggy, dour exterior just made his wit more piercing. If you’ll forgive the pun.

sounding like Big Generator-era Yes

Supposedly the other guys used to make fun of Sting's high voice in the early days by comparing him to Jon Anderson!

but but but Synch II is all in 4/4!

'Mother' is the one in 7/4 on that album, take that sting you poseur

due respect and affection for the earnest Canadians, but Rush is pretty much the answer to the previously posed question, “what would the Police have been without Sting’s pop writing talents?”

truthbomb

Eh, I don't think that's fair at all, not least because Rush was Rush and being Rushy well before the Police formed. But sure, Rush borrowed a bunch from the Police in the early '80s, and got some commercial traction thanks to that good timing. So did Yes. So did Men at Work.

Not too many Police songs in odd signatures, other than "Mother" and "Sync 1" though they are really good with beat displacement and polyrhythms. Like, I think "Tea in the Sahara" is in 4/4, but it kind of floats in this amorphous space between the beat.

yes, but without Sting …

Omegaman, Does Everyone Stare, Darkness - all top-notch non-Sting songs imo

Big fan of Behind My Camel too, but that might be a bit more of a niche interest

also add “Deathwish” to the tally of songs in 4 but you can’t be sure without counting it

From wiki

The music video for "Synchronicity II" was directed by Godley & Creme... The band members stood apart from each other on separate towers made of scaffolding, wearing dystopian outfits... During the filming, Copeland's tower caught fire and the crew started to leave the building. Creme told the director of photography to keep the cameras rolling despite the danger.

Now that's rock 'n' roll.

Lol!

Lol Creme, that is.

I’ll take Rush’s Police-isms over The Police any day.

Listened to the first two albums today thinking I might vote and outside the singles and Bring on the Night, shit was dire.

aw c'mon, "Walking On The Moon" is great

I thought they would be an act with a bunch of deep cuts I would find were just as good as the overplayed stuff we all know. No, imo.

"On Any Other Day" would be in my top 10 were it not for the homophobic lyric

"It's All Right for You" is still a banger imo

voted

and obviously they both did that Amnesty benefit tour later in the 80s...

Fela only appeared on the final date of that tour, at Giants Stadium, alongside Ruben Blades and Carlos Santana. He did not bring his band.

On the earlier dates of that tour, few knew if it would be Sting’s solo band or the Police closing the show. I saw the Chicago date, and the place freaked out when the lights came up and the Police appeared. I remember it being a solid set, but U2’s set was much more exciting and unpredictable (two adjectives few would associate with U2 post-1997).

I'm much cooler with Rush imitating The Police than The Police imitating The Police.

Oh shit I forgot about Murder By Numbers, that’s a fucked up little tune. Doesn’t register as “The Police” at all, doesn’t even seem like a Sting solo song

It's Sting + Summers (i.e. Andy had the chords worked out independently). It'd fit pretty seamlessly on Blue Turtles I think.

BTW do we like "Fortress Around Your Heart"? It and ""All This Time" are the solo songs as smart as he thinks he is.

I love Fortress. There are not very many pre-Pixies songs with such a good contrast between the subdued verse and the rocking chorus. The way the drums come in for real is thrilling, and always will be. Omar Hakim. The raise/raze ambiguity is fun too.

All this Time is a nope for me, though. Boringly middle-aged.

BTW do we like "Fortress Around Your Heart"? It and ""All This Time" are the solo songs as smart as he thinks he is.

Yea on both counts. They both could've been solid Police hits.

Oh wait, fuck, as soon as I hit submit I realized raze/raise isn't even in "Fortress Around Your Heart." It's in "World Leader Pretend."

Crud, sorry, I shouldn't be allowed to post while tired

But that could be an interesting "Taking Sides"! Add "Angry Young Man" and you have a trifecta of military metaphor

Fortress is v good. Great chorus.

All This Time is nothing but chorus and it’s not good.

I love the verses. For once his Simon-indebted talk-singing works putting forward these crisp images imo

Oops forgot to vote for "Murder By Numbers"

One of the best interviews ever: https://renew.sting.com/news/title/Interview:%20REVOLVER%20(2000)

Revolver: Okay, we're back to Freud from Jung. We've finally come to the only cover song you ever did - that Puff Daddy hit 'Every Breath You Take'.

Copeland: In my humble opinion, this is Sting's best song with the worst arrangement. I think Sting could have had any other group do this song and it would have been better than our version - except for Andy's brilliant guitar part. Basically, there's an utter lack of groove. It's a totally wasted opportunity for our band. Even though we made gazillions off of it, and it's the biggest hit we ever had, when I listen to this recording, I think 'God, what a bunch of assholes we were!'

Revolver: Stewart, who was responsible for the groove?

Copeland: I say all this knowing exactly who's responsible for the groove. And yet, with an absolutely straight face, I will blame my two scumbag colleagues for all of it.

Summers: Wait a minute! It's stunning in its simplicity. It does have a great guitar part. I'll take credit for that.

Copeland: Andy, since we're here, I'm going to back you up on this. You should stand up right now and say, 'I Andy want all the Puff Daddy money. Because that's not Sting's song he's using, that's my guitar riff.' Okay over to you Andy, Go for it...

Summers: [meekly] Ok, I want all of the Puff Daddy Money.

Copeland: There you go, you feel better now don't you?

Sting: Okay Andy here's all the money. [pours some change on the table] Unfortunately, I've spent the rest of it.

Summers: I'll tell you what, Stewart, I'll take your share, I know Stings' not going to let me have his.

Copeland: So Sting's making out like a bankrobber here, while Andy and I have gone unrewarded and unloved for our efforts and contributions.

Sting: Life... is... f***ing... tough. Here I am in Tuscany.

Copeland: And don't we know it! You're in Tuscany in your palace with wine being poured down your throat and grapes being peeled for you. Sting can you buy me a castle in Italy too? With the proceeds from the longest running hit single in the history of radio? Just a little chateau somewhere?

Sting: We don't have f***ing chateaus in Italy, They're called palazzos. I'll lend you a room. [laughs]

Copeland: Stingo, you always considered yourself to be the 'King of Pain'. You had this concept at the time that you were Satan, that you were the evil one. I felt that it was my duty to point out to you that, no you were not Satan, you were not Beelzebub, You were just a common garden-variety asshole.

Sting: Shut up, Stewart. Have a drink, take a valium.

Wow at that exchange

Glad I decided to run this poll, it's going to be a lot of fun.

Copeland: Andy, since we're here, I'm going to back you up on this. You should stand up right now and say, 'I Andy want all the Puff Daddy money. Because that's not Sting's song he's using, that's my guitar riff.' Okay over to you Andy, Go for it...

LMAO

If anybody needs to modify a ballot you may, just point it out.

whatever one thinks of sting, stewart seems like an extremely difficult bandmate

no idea where you'd get that impression
https://i.imgur.com/TAFCSZH.jpg

Three guesses as to what is written on the tom on the bottom.

Andy's memoir is pretty entertaining on all the Sting-Stewart stuff, positioning himself as the quiet guy in the middle who just wants to make some cool guitar noises. Hard to know what the Police would have been like without that dynamic — like if Stewart was the same player he is but was a laid-back "Sure, dude" kind of guy. Probably not as weird or interesting, I'm guessing.

Also makes clear that Stewart never stopped thinking of the Police as his band.

Yeah, second the Andy book recommendation. It's a reminder of how much older he is than the other guys, peers with folks like Clapton and his ilk/generation. Summers is 79 right now, same age as Jagger.

Stewart is super obnoxious, but without a doubt is what makes the band most exciting (see: almost everything Sting has done a solo artist). I've seen similar trajectories in a few bands, where the singer/songwriter gets tired of the drummer's energy and ousts him for a stable beat keeper. It happened eventually with Tom Petty, it happened with Dire Straits, it happened with Roxy Music, it even happened with Wilco (at least to an extent; Glenn Kotche is a super creative drummer, but Ken Coomer was notorious for never doing the same thing twice). I have a hunch that once a lot of these dudes started writing or demoing to a drum machine, where nothing got in the way and everything stayed robotically steady, they had trouble going back to work with a non session dude human. I noted on this or another thread how Sting has worked with some serious chops monsters, but that is not why he went with Omar Hakim, or Keith Carlock, or Vinnie Colaiuta. Related, perhaps, is how Stew, despite being one of the most beloved drummers of all time and despite dipping his toes in, never really got many session gigs; almost everything he's done post Police has been a pet band project.

that is not why he went with Omar Hakim, or Keith Carlock, or Vinnie Colaiuta.

and Manu Katché!

I actually think part of the reason Stew didn’t get a lot of session gigs is that he isn’t the most stable timekeeper. There was a hilarious story in RS I believe around the time that Sting finally married Trudy (‘92-ish) and the Police reunited for the wedding and like two seconds after they started the first tune, Stew rushed the beat and Sting immediately shot him a death (wish) stare.

They also weren't sober.

Manu is of course awesome, but especially on Soul Cages he's pretty reigned.

I'm suspect Stew is either sampled looped or programmed for much of Breath, with overdubs. Very in keeping with the times, so to speak. Would also explain why he thinks it lacks groove.

That Revolver piece is one of the greatest things EVAH.

Still, imagine coming to the studio with something as lite as “Walking on the Moon” in lyrics and chords, and emerging with a spooked-out, dubby masterpiece crammed with hooks. I guess all trios have to be well matched but it’s thrilling how much each of them brings.

giant steps are what you take

Any guesses as to which album tracks will receive zero votes? (I'm assuming most of the b-sides will not get any.) There's a handful of their songs that I really hate, but I imagine somebody could say "it's funny" or "it's dynamic" or "it's moody".

Behind My Camel

But that's a Grammy-winning instrumental!

Plus "it's moody"

Behind My Camel is metal af tho

"No Time This Time" feels to me like it's too deep to get more than 1 or 2 other votes besides mine but it's in my top 5 for sure.

Okay I just sent mine over. I didn't put anything from Outlandos d'amour.

xpost Love that one, one of my fave Stew performances.

Up to 17 ballots, will send out confirmation emails this weekend sometime.

Just sent mine in. It came together surprisingly easily. These guys were so much a part of my youth, and my favorites have remained pretty constant since.

Any guesses as to which album tracks will receive zero votes?

"Born in the 50's"

"Contact"

"Peanuts"

"Born in the 50's" is charming in that reminded me that all three of them would've been old enough to witness someone like Carl Perkins or Buddy Holly as an enormous chart-topping pop star. The '50s seem ancient compared the late '70s, but it really wasn't that much earlier. When I think about 2002 vs. 2022, the cultural differences don't seem nearly as great.

Nope I voted for Contact. I love that instrumental pre chorus thing

Me too

will try and bash out a ballot now. i think all my votes will be for the weirdo ones no-one likes, not trying to be a contrarian but i never really feel the urge to listen to the hits anymore

No Time This Time" feels to me like it's too deep to get more than 1 or 2 other votes besides mine but it's in my top 5 for sure.

― billstevejim, Friday, November 25, 2022 12:51 PM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

i voted for this one

I voted for the other quasi-punk track on RDB.

It's Alright for You?

I think they both are necessary

Just realized I left off Canary in a Coalmine, which I should’ve voted for. Oh well.

I voted for all three of these, I gotchu

canary rose up my ballot pretty steadily, one of my fav summers parts

Sent!

Also, never forget:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlesUq8U7KM

I wonder if that (in its original version) will be the lowest-ranked of their singles in this poll? I've never seen it get much love.

I've always found "Do Do" almost hauntingly spare. So austere for a single.

Like most of that album, my favorite.

My ballot breakdown more or less reflects my album preferences, with 5 each from Regatta and Ghost and 3 from each of the others (plus 1 non-album).

If anybody needs to modify a ballot you may, just point it out.

― Bee OK, Wednesday, November 23, 2022 10:43 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

OK, please add "Contact" to mine, you can put it in position 11 if that's not inconvenient, or if that's a pain, put it at the bottom, I'm still under 20 at any rate

but no big deal if not, it's my own omission

Any guesses as to which album tracks will receive zero votes?

"O My God"

Copeland: 'Darkness' is a song about vertigo. I'm very proud of it, and there's not really much to say about it except that...

Sting: 'Vertigo' is an Alfred Hitchcock movie!

Copeland: True, but unlike you, Sting, I didn't steal my ideas from films or other literary sources. I came up with the crap I wrote my goddamn self!

Summers: That's easy for you to say, Stewart. You've never even read a book - or seen a film!

that interview is insane

In part 3, if any of you vote for Flowers in the Desert imma cut a beeyotch

By which I mean Desert Rose which is totally distinct from Tea in the Sahara

“Contact” is gonna be number one now, isn’t it

sent

Does anybody need more time?

lol I'm just sending my ballot in now :)

we’re we supposed to get confirmation emails?

lol I'm just sending my ballot in now :)

― poster of sparks (rogermexico.), Monday, November 28, 2022 12:24 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's alright for you

"O My God"

#15 on my tracks list.

What is everyone's favorite Synchronicity single?

Mine: "Synchronicity II." "King of Pain" almost gets points because (a) its effrontery (b) its excellent arrangement.

"Synchronicity II" is my #1 track overall. Their absolute high water mark, imho.

Something crawls to the surface
Of a dark Scottish LOCH

Props to Sting for (sorta) rhyming with "crotch."

Synchronicity II also my top vote from that album (and the only one in my top 10).

Unintentional, no doubt, but I hear "S II" as The Police tipping the hat to Rush, who'd already mastered their own version of their sonics and skank on the previous year's Signals.

many miles away……

We know all the suicides are fake

I made a little playlist of the songs on my ballot and my main reaction listening to it is what a phenomenal groove band they were. Almost every song — especially the non-singles — is built on one great groove or another. Which is why for all the surface connections they are a much different proposition than Rush. The Police absorbed and understood the space and movement in reggae and dub better than maybe any contemporaries. (This was mostly gone by Synchronicity, one of the reasons it's my least favorite.)

"O My God" and maybe "Wrapped Around Your Finger" are the last gasps imo.

Yeah WAYF does have some of that slinky spaciness.

gotta say the live version of Walking In Your Footsteps is pretty great

I guess I'm the only one who much prefers "Synchronicity I" over "II"?

I just like the rush - also some amazing polyrhythms in there IIRC.

Logic so inflexible
Causally connectible

xxp nope, I vastly prefer it

I like the rush of "Sync I" and it's also maybe the most Rush-like thing they ever did. I can totally hear it in Geddy Lee's voice. (And Peart was into Jung, too.)

I had a professor in grad school who threatened to fail us if we cited Jung or Joseph Campbell in our papers.

re-humanties-ize yourself

I am very psyched for this rollout

xxp nope, I vastly prefer it

same

spotify stats:

https://i.ibb.co/LpywVF4/Screenshot-2022-11-28-184622.jpg

Surprising how steep the dropoffs can be, at least on the bottom end (like after "King of Pain," the next popular track gets less than half the plays).

as usual I am blown away by the orders of magnitude there re: most plays

lol yes xp

"EBYT" numbers truly astonishing

Glad "So Lonely" is so high. Did that have some afterlife I'm not aware of?

xpost I think it's a keystone of an earlier season of Stranger Things.

Ah that would make sense. Good call, Stranger Things.

Hello everyone, confirmation emails have not yet gone out but they are still coming. I got a bit lazy on my four day vacation. I have come back to work and I'm swamped and won't be able to run this thing this week like I had planned. It will run next week no matter what. Sorry but work is out of control at the moment.

Good news is if you still need to make a ballot then you may...up until Friday, December 2.

I think Wrapped Around Your Finger should be after King Of Pain in terms of total plays but I really don't understand Spotify's ordering mechanism sometimes

I like both "Synchronicity"s but consider the four songs in-between them a wasteland.

I remember a review of the 1986 Police compilation in the local alt-weekly that suggested that "Invisible Sun" was the only song on the record that wasn't about romantic issues but also wasn't a hit, thus undermining the band and their audience's pretensions to significance.

I mean, "Spirits in the Material" world isn't about romantic issues, and you'd be hard pressed to say "Don't Stand So Close to Me" is, either.

Wasn't Invisible Sun banned in the UK?

the video definitely was

according to that revolver interview anyway

I think "Russians" alone discouraged me from ever wanting Sting to write about something *important*. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all he's done for charity, but he's recorded better songs for beer commercials.

We work the dark ale together

guys we don’t have to be cool. ebyt is a monster track with a sound that deservedly got ripped off immediately and for years. sync ii is… fine. it’s a good riff.

my biggest surprise listening back through everything was maybe “walking on the moon” which always bored me when I was young and foolish but wow… Stewart just absolutely kills it. up there with “in the air tonight” for lead drums.

they really got a lot of mileage out of reggae verse/rock chorus

I respect EBYT's many achievements and I voted for it (unlike some of the other big hits), but it's never been a personal fave.

And otm about the drums — the cymbals! — on "Walking on the Moon."

copeland is the best cymbalist in rock music

the fill that opens “every little thing she does is magic” is my personal fav moment among many

"On Any Other Day" would be in my top 10 were it not for the homophobic lyric

"It's All Right for You" is still a banger imo

the fill that opens “every little thing she does is magic” is my personal fav moment among many

― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili)

and the one before the EEEYOHHHH part.

Love the coda to that song as well

A lot of Police songs, I often have trouble figuring out the drum parts. There is a lot of overdubbing, a lot of effects, stuff like that that clutter up the performance. Depending on the song really. But Copeland is so creative in how he puts it all together that it really doesn't matter if he has two arms or four or six.

copeland is the best cymbalist in rock music

Hell yeah. I voted for Peter Gabriel's "Red Rain" in category three - apparently they hired Copeland just to play the hi-hat. Like they spent the money and flew him out just for that, and it opens both the song and the whole album.

(his hi-hat that is, it opens the track all by its lonesome)

I recall reading once that one of the pitches Lanois made is that after a couple albums of no or few cymbals, what if Gabriel did an album that was *all* high-end bright, with an *emphasis* on cymbals. Manu Katche did a pretty good job capturing Copeland's splashy expressiveness, but with more discipline. Copeland if I recall correctly plays hi-hat on Red Rain and most of the drums on Big Time, but that's it.

I also voted for the “Red Rain” hi-hat. His Sonic signature. Also otm about the Every Little Thing intro.

I’m not gonna tip my hand or nothin but let’s just say that def left an impression on my ballot. just a preposterous talent, tho you can see why every now and then the songwriter might not want to compete…

I knew about Red Rain, as it was a huge influence

But must have forgotten - or that he was on Big Time! It's funky but it's played pretty straight. Frankly uncharacteristic - perhaps I just mentally blocked out the liner notes because it seems close to what Manu would have played.

Sorry about work Bee but glad I can submit a late ballot.

xpost It's honestly really hard to tell, because a lot of the tracks on So are a combination of Manu, Stewart, Jerry Marotta and drum machines/programming. Just an incredible production all around.

btw, am I the only one that always thought Jay-Z's "Can I Get a ..." sampled "Walking in Your Footsteps"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH8Ps8jeTrU

listening to Reggatta de Blanc tonight, it would appear Mr. Copeland is very nice at the hi-hats

god if I tried to play the Bring on the Night riff my head would probably explode

Using traditional grip, too.

hey is Reggatta de Blanc a play on “white reggae”? I had always wondered how the spelling mistake made it to production, it’s been staring me in the face the whole time.

yes it is

I have owned that record nearly 40 years and never twigged

I know that now, but at the time I thought it was something to do with a sailboat race

Before the “white reggae” thing clicked I used to think it was some kind of commentary on “white race.”

My earliest memory of the Police as a 6 or 7-year-old is that stark, glowering black and white image of them in their short blond hair and THE POLICE in big letters. A neighbour had a giant black sheet or towel of it hanging off his balcony. They looked like scary Nazis.

hey is Reggatta de Blanc a play on “white reggae”?

I'm gonna continue to think of it as not, I have always liked those first three album titles as conveying the feel of some made-up Esperanto-like language. I sort of wish they'd kept up with it and called the next album Fantomo Machinisto or something

My brother's review of the record for his college newspaper also said that the conventional title was evidence of a drop-off in quality.

lol. Trend of two.

30 years ago i asked a french-speaking friend what 'zenyatta mondatta' meant. without hesitation he responded 'high and mighty'

i think of this every single time i hear any song from the record

Very loosely translated, indeed

I thought it was zenyatta = zenith, mondatta = world? in like a combo of 3 different languages

Reggatta is such an obnoxious title since it's the only instance I can find of that extra "g" being in there. probably not a big deal in pre-internet times but still annoying when you gotta spell it in say, the iTunes search

I think it's just kind of made up.

I have to say I never knew that g was doubled

Outlandos d'Amour is the truly genius one IMO

"It means everything," he yelled back. "It's the same explanation that applies to the last two. It doesn’t have a specific meaning like ‘Police Brutality’ or ‘Police Arrest’, or anything predictable like that. Being vague it says a lot more. You can interpret it in a lot of different ways. It’s not an attempt to be mysterious, just syllables that sound good together, like the sound of a melody that has no words at all has a meaning."

https://web.archive.org/web/20030215094654/http://www.infinitedensity.net/music/copeland/Stingchronicity%20Interview%20Archive,%20Stewart%20Copeland%20interview,%20Musician's%20Only,%20Oct%201980.htm

I have had a very intense week at work, there was no way I could have run this thing this week. It's after hours now and thinking about what ahead a bit. Confirmation emails are next then...I'm stuck on images and can't figure out what I want this poll to look like. So instead, I'm going to throw it out there. Does anyone want to help out with images? If so email this box and we will talk. I'm terrible at these type of things anyways, so any help would be amazing!

Getting amped for this poll

Email confirmations have been sent, if you did not get a reply please resend your ballot.

Sent!

was just going through a pile of disco records and wow, there's a strong resemblance between this bohannon-produced caroline crawford tune and 'demolition man':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5FtxthqjnE

whoa youre not wrong ha (and i dig it)

Voted! Although I just realised I missed one of their best songs.

c'mon kp tell

I forgot to vote for Driven To Tears which should have been top ten.

i will re-listen thx!

Hello kitchen person, you may modify your ballot until you get the confirmation email which should be by tomorrow.

Only a few more hours to go...

Hello kitchen person, you may modify your ballot until you get the confirmation email which should be by tomorrow.

― Bee OK

Thanks Bee! Just sent it.

so Andy played all the parts on "Behind My Camel"? if so is he trying to imitate the way Stewart rides the hi-hat? kinda funny

Bring On the POLL - ILM Artist Poll #116 - THE POLICE - (Results Thread)

i just came searching for something about that guitar figure in TMI. glad to find comments. damn i love that songs like, construction.