Real House Vs Fun House

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So what is the difference? I always feel that "Real" house is meant to be Derrick Carter/DJ Sneak/Derrick May/Freeform 5 etc etc and I guess I'd consider the likes of Jon Carter/Fatboy Slim/Justin Robertson/Jacques Lu Cont/Basement Jaxx to be "fun" stuff. Which do you prefer? What's the difference do you think? I ask cos I've seen hardly any of the real house dudes though I'd like to see them sometime, it's just they seldom tour. I guess the "fun" guys are the ones you can rely on to play whatever is big at a given time aswell as do their own thing. But I often think the boundaries which arise aren't really very helpful and one thing being seen as commercial or superstar dj and another as organic and slick is just snobbery and a bit silly. Having said that I'm sure Derrick Carter et al have something to offer which the others don't. and vice versa obv.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:16 (twenty-three years ago)

To anyone who thought this thread was about the Stooges, hahahahhahahahahahahaahha.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:20 (twenty-three years ago)

SCOOTER!

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Fatboy Slim is house? Or fun, for that matter?

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:22 (twenty-three years ago)

jesus ronan, this is an impossible question to answer unless you're terry farley.

― michael wells (michael w.), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:23 (twenty-three years ago)

terry farley to thread.

hstencil thanks for your excellent post, I always love reading the reams of insightful contributions you've made to dance music threads around here and this is no exception

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Although hstencil's comment brings me to the other point of the thread, dance snobbery, HOW FAR DO YOU GO? Me I'm just a trance/scooter hater. Still though "cheesey" in dance is as massive as "sellout" in punk, so much fear and paranoia there.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry, I've just never heard anyone refer to Fatboy Slim as "house," and from what I've heard of his music, it doesn't sound like house to me either (not that I'm Ronan "Dance Music Expert" Fitzgerald or anything).

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah well you are incorrect, where there might be some debate about his latest work being house, there is no question that the man is a house DJ. I don't really want to have an argument about it but if you weren't so snarky about being wrong I wouldn't have been so snarky about being right.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

"cheesey" is may pet hate critical term, it means nothing. i think it's easier to be a snob in dance music than virtually any other form of music. not sure what i mean by that, let me have a think.

scooter are grebt, ronan.

― michael wells (michael w.), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Wow! It's never a distinction I've seen expressed in those terms before. Having said that I've seen Derrick Carter, Sneak and Derrick May many times (although the first two not that recently) and they definitely have lots to offer. I guess it is kind of muso in its way because they tend to play long sets with lots of repeating themes and a fairly constant level throughout - not the big builds and breakdowns that you get over the course of most UK house DJ's sets. It's a warmer, more organic feel and kind of more heads down and sweaty - stuff for people who're really into house music and want to give the DJ a chance.

So, yeah, for music snobs. But enjoyable.

― Jacob (Jacob), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:35 (twenty-three years ago)

the definition of "house" is virtually impossible these days (unless you're terry farley) and it *is* possible to take issue with calling fatboy slim a "house dj" even though he drops house tunes (whatever the fuck they are - see i told you this was impossible to answer).

― michael wells (michael w.), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:37 (twenty-three years ago)

What the fuck? I'm just saying I've never seen him referred to as house or heard anything by him that sounds like house to me. Okay, so I made a joke out of it at first, but still ask most anybody and they'd say his stuff is "big beat," whatever the fuck that is.

It seems to me that I'm not being snarky or snobby about this, but hey I can't have any insight into "dance music," right? Because I'm like into indie rock and noise and weird stuff, right?

Hint to Ronan: I have quite a few "dance music" records in my collection, and believe it or not, I LIKE HOUSE.

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry, I've just never heard anyone refer to Fatboy Slim as "house,"

What aboot a Housemartin?

― Vic Funk, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

well, yeah, I guess Vic's right.

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh don't get me wrong, I reckon I'd love those DJs when I do see them. I like whatever mixes I've heard and their production work. I think cheesey can mean something in house music, but generally it just means pophouse as opposed to darker or deeper or dirtier stuff. I've tried to stop using it cos it's a wussout disclaimer in a review like "I like this but before you berate me and call it cheese here I've said it already".

Easier to be a snob in dance because of the nature of liking it maybe, ie lots of people who like dance end up only listening to dance and also it comes to become their social life also, so it's about who you go out with/where you go aswell even moreso than other genres. I mean I know there are indie clubs and all but they don't have connotations attached like I the dance ones in a given city do. (at least this is the case in Dublin and I'm sure even in a city where the clubs themselves don't have a rep, the DJ you say you went to see still gives it)

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:42 (twenty-three years ago)

actually, i'm with hstencil on this, i have never thought of fatboy slim as house either

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the house fatboy slim plays is by a million miles the most commonly used definition of house nowadays. Shakedown et al. Hstencil I think the problem here might be that I'm talking about his DJ sets not his production work so much.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

as for the distinction between 'real' and 'fun', i'd have to think about that some more

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

(NOT HIS PRODUCTION WORK!)

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

ah, see well I've never heard a dj set by him, then. You didn't really specify that in the question.

Not that you asked but I think Basement Jaxx is miles better than Fatboy anyway, at least in terms of their productions (never heard 'em dj either).

Back to sleep....

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I think they're better too, I'd say most people here will agree since I doubt Fatboy is too popular but I do love Better Living Through Chemistry and to a lesser extent You've Come A Long Way Baby. I mean I'm not sure people here get that when I was 15/16/17 this was dance music along with the Chemical Brothers hence I still love both.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:47 (twenty-three years ago)

but also back to your original point, it's nearly impossible to make a distinction, esp. as there's been so many mutations of house since the original or "real" Chicago back-in-the-day version. Does "real" mean "original" or "bleak" or "no-diva-vocals" as opposed to fun? What about all those people who like, say, Luomo, but don't like house? Is Luomo not "real" or "fun" or even "house?" Anybody hear that Soft Pink Truth record yet? All questions for other threads, probably.

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:47 (twenty-three years ago)

I suppose the thread really is a dissection of house music and the preoccupation with real and cheesey which developed. I'm sure the "real" stuff can be fun yeah, it's just traditionally one sort of fan argues that x is "real" and the other that y is "fun". Also I don't think this is like other genres where the gap is particularly big, I'm sure there are common tracks in dj sets of both and I don't think generally that there is a chasm of musical difference in the way.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

"Red House" vs. "House of Fun"

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Well isn't the common factor with a lot of the 'fun' DJs you mention that they'll drop non-house into a 'house' set?

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:55 (twenty-three years ago)

house means different things to different people is the key.

― michael wells (michael w.), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmmm yeah that is kinda true, even in the sense that they'll play a particularly accessible techno track or whatever aswell as maybe a rock one or whatever, perhaps the "real" thing is cos the others are purists in a sense. It's odd that there aren't many UK DJs who have reached this level of respect, I've seen Jockey Slut referring to "Carter/Sneak/Carter" cos they do like Jon Carter aswell as Derrick but other than that are there any? Tom Middleton maybe?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Where does deep house fit into this? What I've heard of Microhouse makes me think it's kind of the new deep house in a way. I mean all those old deep records feel so dull, as I said before "your mind connecting with the cosmos" yadda yadda yadda. Does anyone actually like deep house? All the fans I know are outrageous snobs.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:03 (twenty-three years ago)

I told Andy K how much I loved Larry Levan's Live at the Paradise Garage (bought on his rave) and he pointed me to deephouse.com. Haven't really checked it out yet, but if there is a connection w/ that Levan stuff than I'm sure I'd like it.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Fatboy Slim would call himself a house DJ and probably producer too - like Justin Robertson he likes to refer to the entire domain of popular British dance/club music as house or acid house...excluding jungle/drum n bass

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:21 (twenty-three years ago)

the best deep house is fucking amazing, ronan. sexy, funky, melancholy.

― michael wells (michael w.), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Me I'm just a trance/scooter hater.

I hope you're not implying that Scooter is trance?

― Siegbran (eofor), Friday, 10 January 2003 18:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Classic (real) house a la Chicago/Detroit/New York (and those influenced by the purist movement) the music and technique for me anyways is normally of primary importance, going to hear a "fun" house set would mean I could get more fucked up and relax, lighten up. I can't say I am comfortable with the terminology, coz although, for example, Basement Jaxx come under fun house, they offer a worthy sonic experience. Conversly, I wouldn't piss on Quentin Cook's set if his vinyl was on fire. That's harsh, I would probably tell a member of club staff about the fire hazard.

― Macattack (Macattack), Friday, 10 January 2003 18:55 (twenty-three years ago)

i feel it's pushing it to call fatboy slim a dj let alone a house dj. a colleague of mine put him on belfast in the summer where he got the princely sum of £25 000 to play a dj set. i heard a recording of it and frankly, anyone who got a set of decks this christmas would have done a better job. whatever he was playing, it certainly wasn't what i'd call house music.

― stirmonster, Friday, 10 January 2003 19:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah fair enough the guy can't mix for shit, I fully accept that stirmonster but he is good at reading a crowd, I mean so fucking what if he earns massive amounts of cash; this isn't here nor there as far as I'm concerned, a shit DJ or a great one earning 3 pints of beer is still shit/great. And maybe it isn't what you'd call house music but this is cos it's what you'd call "shit" right? So er....with all respect you see where I'm coming from.

(Siegbran no I wasn't implying that)

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 20:10 (twenty-three years ago)

It's worth adding that I don't think "good at reading a crowd" is as throwaway as it looks there. It's something lots of technically better DJs can't do as I'm sure anyone who's seen some dick bang out boring techno for 4 hours or something can see.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 20:15 (twenty-three years ago)

i never said what he played was shit. i just wouldn't call it house. 'house' covers a pretty wide spectrum but fundamentally, it's four to the floor disco music. what he was playing was more breaks orientated. my own personal taste is probably more towards the weirder / glitchier end of house but as i make people dance for a living, i appreciate the importance of quality cheese. i would never play a record i didn't like but while i might not listen to it at home i love playing basement jaxx et al out when i do a gig. purist entertainers certainly don't float my boat so please don't assume that i am a disconazi.

his fee is neither here nor there too, i just thought it might be of interest to know how much he was paid.

'good at reading a crowd' is what dj'ing is ALL about. i've met djs that have practiced their set all week to perfection and will keep to it no matter what happens on the dancefloor. imo they might as well burn it to cd-r and hit play.

― stirmonster, Friday, 10 January 2003 20:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah listen fair enough, anytime I've seen him he does actually play house, he's moved away from breaks as far as I know his sets and he just plays pophouse hit after hit. He's not my favourite DJ but I do think what he does, ie giving people whatever is big at a given time with a few quirky remixes thrown in, is a good idea. He's not remotely pretentious and I do genuinely go in for the idea that he is kinda the peoples dj.

I agree with you, I think LOADS of djs just do their thing and don't give a shit about the crowd and to be fair to Fatboy Slim, anytime I've seen him he always pops up with a few surprises. Anyway sorry if I sound irked I just am a bit surprised by how many people hate Fatboy Slim.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 20:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I have the Brighton Beach DVD and was surprised by how shit the mixing on it is (how abysmally awful and non existant to be honest) but when I've seen him I've not noticed it as much. It is possible that for bigger gigs he doesn't bother even picking tracks that mix together easily and just goes for the hits.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 10 January 2003 20:37 (twenty-three years ago)

What about Son House?

― Amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 10 January 2003 20:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Real House is house music made for reasons other than the remit of appearing in other "dance" or "hits" compilation and creating "album buzz" and selling tons of records....

Jon Carter/Fatboy Slim/Justin Robertson/Jacques Lu Cont/are not house.

Justin Robertson kinda used to be prog house, but I have no idea what he's doing now.

Basement Jaxx are house, because of the carnival spirit and Brixton connection, but they are other things too.

― Nik (Nik), Friday, 10 January 2003 20:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Or Ron House.

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 21:08 (twenty-three years ago)

the Brighton Beach set last Summer was ALL house music...also, just because Cook didnt always play house that doesnt mean he cant call himself a house DJ - he emerged with the house boom and if you check Pizzaman and Mighty Dub Katz stuff you'll see he was making decent housey tracks well before big beat shoved itself into the spotlight

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 10 January 2003 22:48 (twenty-three years ago)

house has always been the 'freest' sub-genre of dance music...and if Robertson, Cook, Carter and Lu Cont were to ever call themselves house DJs it wouldnt raise an eyebrow with me even thought they're all admittedly more remembered for their big beat tagged stuff...but from 1999 onwards they're surely all been playing at least 75% 4/4 stuff!

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 10 January 2003 22:50 (twenty-three years ago)

AND ANOTHER THING - it was NEVER that relevant that fatboy Slim was not known/admired/credited for his mixing...he played the best tunes! he got people dancing and happy! and as Ronan says with his 'reading the crowd' Fatboy Slim has been the master of that as far as i'm concerned...it pisses me off how much people drone on about DJs who can and can't mix...i couldnt give a toss, especially is the tracks they are seamlessly blending and at just the right moments are dreary minimal deep house tracks (not that i hate all deep house of course)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 10 January 2003 22:52 (twenty-three years ago)

If I don't like the straight-ahead stuff, am I, ahem hem, lost in the Fun House!!?!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 10 January 2003 22:53 (twenty-three years ago)

I am surprised by Nik's post, I think Big Beat must have ensured people didn't bother with whatever the Big Beat Djs did after it ended, back in 1998 or so!

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 11 January 2003 01:51 (twenty-three years ago)

you got me there, Ronan. I guess, if I examin my relationship with house, then it was my disgust of big beat that coincided with me buying tons of deep house records....

and so I no knowledge of Jon Carter or FBSlim's recent work. But I'm pretty sure its not house... I'm petty about these things, see?

Real House vs Fun House? neither: Hip-House!!!!!!!

― Nik (Nik), Sunday, 12 January 2003 02:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Fun House to its credit has Pat Sharpe.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 12 January 2003 15:14 (twenty-three years ago)

i thought bigbeat generally took off its rainbow afro wig and became 'breaks'

― zemko (bob), Sunday, 12 January 2003 21:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Lots of the djs went to house actually, most that I can think of, Touche, Fatboy, Matt Cantor, Jon Carter, with varying degrees of success/failure.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 12 January 2003 22:04 (twenty-three years ago)

I think you're right to say that it's a difficult distinction to draw here Ronan, because most of the producers worth their salt will do stuff that operates in both territories - eg. Basement Jaxx are "fun house" on their singles but "real house" on their Atlantic Jaxx releases, presumably. DJ Sneak is real house, but usually very very fun. Romanthony is the archetypal "real" US house producer/performer (albeit with a strong Prince element), but then he goes and works with Daft Punk and makes awesome tracks like "Never Fuck". The distinction only really makes sense at the extremes - yer Scooters (who aren't house, really) and Terry Farley (who aren't fun, really).

I don't think microhouse is so much the new deep house, if only because common garden variety tech-house (Plastic City, Plink Plonk etc.) performs that function so completely. Actually I'm beginning to agree with something a poster said a short while back as microhouse being more usefully understood as a subset of techno rather than house.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 13 January 2003 00:50 (twenty-three years ago)

"something a poster said a short while back" = something i said to Matos on Friday eve!!

"Real house" could even mean techno, the way Ronan's using it. If I did a line graph I would plot Blake Baxter and Ron Trent pretty close together as far as their style of mixing and what it accomplishes on the dancefloor.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 13 January 2003 14:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe "real" means "nothing exciting will happen"

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 January 2003 05:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe, I don't know. Maybe that's the point I'm missing. I think it is about how you define house but I still find this interesting.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 January 2003 14:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I imagine the dance genres as these different colored Go pieces (just when you think you've got somebody surrounded they flip it on you and YOU are subsumed), so instead of black and white you have like 8 different players all playing at once. And then you realize that your Go board is just one square of a much larger board... (*spooky music*)

Tim "nothing exciting"? I thought the whole lesson of techno and "real" dance music was that changes can happen SLOWLY and the excitement comes from the cumulative impact of staying with the incredibly minute gradations in affect and rhythm, which in the hands of ~~a good DJ~~ PORTER RICKS will knock you silly. (On the down-side now we have bands like Tortoise) But you know all this, so - what are you getting at?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 16 January 2003 15:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Mmm - actually keeping the changes small encourages you to become more immersed in the music (in a club environment anyhow). If I go hear Sneak (or just about any decent jungle or techno dj) I'll dance constantly for hours, but if I go hear Basement Jaxx I'll be on and off the floor all night depending on how much I like the tunes. The more 'dance' something is the less 'fun' it has to be in the pop sense - dance is all about a certain amount of uniformity and that's not just in electronic scenes either - look at stuff like batucada and salsa which is essentially all just small variations on a fairly rigid template...

― Jacob (Jacob), Thursday, 16 January 2003 16:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not disagreeing with you Tracer. I'm saying the *discourse* of "real"-ness is based around what the music denies itself. "Real" dance producers and DJs can still play/mix great records, but that's not what makes them real.

Just last week I danced to a minimal techno set and it was amazing, but then the Martini Bros came on for a live set that veered between real and unreal-but-fun constantly and it was the second best non-drug-assisted night of dancing I've ever had.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 19 January 2003 02:46 (twenty-three years ago)

four years pass...

funny!

― blueski, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:34 (nineteen years ago)

i was looking for a thread to post a youtube link to Ultra Nate's cover of Pointer Sisters 'Automatic' on.

― blueski, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:38 (nineteen years ago)

http://accel17.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/0/05/19/52/soad/funhouse.jpg

― NYCNative, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:00 (nineteen years ago)

i want to ask blunt this question but in a slightly different way from how ronan posed it. there was something on the dixon thread about "vibe house" vs "non vibe house" that i found totally mystifying.

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 01:12 (nineteen years ago)

i'm pretty sure that "vibe instilling house" is how he put it. live instruments is how i interpreted it. non-clinical, non-sound-obsessed, i think it stands up. the whole time we were going back and forth yesterday i couldn't help but be reminded of "imaginary dance music".

― tricky, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 01:30 (nineteen years ago)

*shivers* Unbelievably clueless, obnoxious -and recent- questioning on the part of a tastemaker-blogger type. "House is a feeling" give me a motherfucking break. I truly am done addressing this kid.

Anyway yes tricky I think that's what I meant. My efforts at definition were doomed from the start! The inclusion of musicians (solos, sessioning, song) in a track conveys emotion in a very gratifying way. This is not about melody per se, don't make me to be the Geir of disco.

That "vibe" largely contributes the feeling that house is, if you will. It hangs over the floor, keeps it together and in a kind of collective focus that I think goes beyond a mere (primarily drug-fuelled?) "tunnel" mindset a la OMG I resonate with the bleak inevitability of machine music in our metapostmodern age yadda yadda.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 04:49 (nineteen years ago)

sorta polemical?

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:08 (nineteen years ago)

This is totally a reasoning by assertion kind of argument.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:09 (nineteen years ago)

It sure is and I've only got personal experience to back it up, if you want mathematics you're barking up the wrong tree. I can't help being antagonistic Vahid, in this context. Hopefully it conveys more than that and I'm slowly learning: the main beef is surrounded by parentheses and a question mark after all.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:23 (nineteen years ago)

drugs is your beef? at most of the "live music" deep house things i've been to there's mad pot smokin going on. i am with you, though, that the whole "ketamine house" thing was a mega-turn-off, i just don't have that whole laissez faire european attitude toward drugs.

straightedge music = detroit techno, right?? (cue titonton duvante in an old issue of debug (i think) zine: "the only chemicals i get high on are cinnamon on my toast and green tea"

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:41 (nineteen years ago)

the argument sounds like it is more about soul than about drugs.

― tricky, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:47 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

or maybe it was in an old issue of forcefield zine? (RIP)

or maybe even in a xeroxed issue of EAR/seprononceoreille??

someone needs to make a web archives of forcefield, EAR, twoplayer and that zine that psherburn did the big minimal article for ... what was that called phil?!? the one se4n c00per was involved in?

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:48 (nineteen years ago)

xpost to V

Haha I had him sleep on my cold-hash stinking couch one time. Not amused. You might want to examine the relationship of a certain godfather of techno with a certain cocaine byproduct. This is all besides the point tho. Well what was polemical then, apart from my general attitude which precisely has been readjusted of late by quitting weed? I have let a number of things slide, time for no more Mr. nice guy in many areas...

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:52 (nineteen years ago)

http://images.art.com/images/-/Full-House--C10103065.jpeg

― latebloomer, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:55 (nineteen years ago)

^^^ ban latebloomer

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:56 (nineteen years ago)

i am listening to big youth and dillinger right now - i have a 100% drug-free lifestyle but i can't honestly say i demand that of the musicians i listen to.

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:57 (nineteen years ago)

xxpost - the photo -

Eight is Enough! Ummm.. I mean Seven is Enough!

― Bimble, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:57 (nineteen years ago)

I thought this was going to be a thread of Red House Painters vs. The Stooges. I'm confused.

― Bimble, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 05:59 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.magazines.com/magcom/covers/0/06/224/0062247.jpg

― tricky, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 06:06 (nineteen years ago)

It all feels like a bit of a false dichotomy to me: the sound of real instruments in deep house strikes me as being almost as much sound-for-sound's sake as any kind of computer/synthy sound... or anyway when it becomes more about some kind of cultural-political gesture (live musicianship as communal rallying point etc.) is when I turn off, although maybe it's merely coincidental that every house + live instruments performance I've ever seen has been shit boring.

Plus it's not like electronic dance music hasn't been around long enough for the "electronic" component to develop its own sense of history and trace. I also don't really identify with the notion that listening to more electronic strains of house is about some sort of postmodern digital alienation or something, if anything the a large part of the last ten years or so of (particularly German) house has been the advancement of the technology to the point where the real sound/artificial sound divide becomes really difficult to pinpoint if it's there at all - my favourite dance music artefacts this year (the Dixon mix and the Kalabrese album) weave digital and acoustic sounds (sampled, perhaps, but the distinction is a bit meaningless to me) together to the point that it's hard to be conscious that there's even a formal distinction at work.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 07:12 (nineteen years ago)

Obviously German house isn't the only area where this has happened, but it's the one that sort of needs defending in the context of this thread.

The wall of sound approach of the more discoid end of French house is another good example, albeit done in an entirely different fashion.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 07:24 (nineteen years ago)

i doubt blunt is really into the alan braxe / crydamoure movement

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 07:31 (nineteen years ago)

i dunno though, how you're going to separate "sound-as-sound" from "cultural gesture". no doubt for one group of people belgian hoover / mentasm techno is a communal rallying point. or hard house. or gabba. but don't rave aesthetes of the post-reyn0lds school listen to marc acardiapane / PCP strictly for "sound-as-sound" properties.

am i stating too much the obvious if i say readership is going to determine 90% of this?

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 07:36 (nineteen years ago)

i mean, for example i would arrange a "real house" --> "fun house" canon like this:

Derrick Carter - DJ Sneak - Jon Carter - Justin Robertson - Fatboy Slim - Derrick May - Jacques Lu Cont - Basement Jaxx -Freeform 5

just roughly in order of "least likely to deviate from straight 4/4 with disco / funk / soul / jazz bits" to "most likely to deviate from straight 4/4 and lose the disco / funk / soul / jazz bits"

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 07:39 (nineteen years ago)

we could totally argue that untl we're blue in the face, though.

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 07:39 (nineteen years ago)

"i dunno though, how you're going to separate "sound-as-sound" from "cultural gesture". no doubt for one group of people belgian hoover / mentasm techno is a communal rallying point. or hard house. or gabba. but don't rave aesthetes of the post-reyn0lds school listen to marc acardiapane / PCP strictly for "sound-as-sound" properties. "

That's what I mean I think! I wasn't very clear. I guess I mean that, in our tastes and musical choices, when we move beyond the sound as communal rallying point (e.g. the sound of a mentasm or a rhodes piano) to the process as a communal rallying point (the involvement of live musicians or a laptop) we're getting away what makes dance music work as dance music.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 07:45 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah this is what I meant re history or trace - you can't tell me that a mentasm doesn't have the same sort of "oh my god I'm part of a community or lineage or narrative" thrill as a diva or a saxaphone or whatever - and this is even mentally discounting the "hardcore continuum".

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 07:47 (nineteen years ago)

I never personally witnessed a house + live instruments performance -strictly talking records played in a DJ set here (and I have seen & heard more laptop ""performances"" than I cared to by now). Composition.

I do like me some Braxe/Crydamoure (and a whooole lotta techno). It just serves a different purpose in programming a set or inflecting an atmosphere.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 08:18 (nineteen years ago)

I dunno about PCP as sound-on-sound. What I (sometimes) like about M. Acardipane is the sheer RAAAH fuckoff & BS-free energy! Once a punk...

In fact, when I came to accept that the point of a good record isn't in tweaking hi hats in yet another smartass way I actually felt the music in terms of energy -positive or negative or neutral- and left nerdy hairsplitting/trainspotting behind to a large extent.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 08:29 (nineteen years ago)

"I dunno about PCP as sound-on-sound. What I (sometimes) like about M. Acardipane is the sheer RAAAH fuckoff & BS-free energy! Once a punk... "

What's the distinction here?

What records merely tweak hi-hats in yet another smartass way?

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 08:54 (nineteen years ago)

*shivers* Unbelievably clueless, obnoxious -and recent- questioning on the part of a tastemaker-blogger type. "House is a feeling" give me a motherfucking break. I truly am done addressing this kid.

the post you're replying to is over 4 years old, so perhaps it's not me being obnoxious.

In any case there's interesting stuff afterwards here. I think the drugs/not drugs thing is kind of a red herring. I haven't done drugs in a couple of years and barely drink but I actively enjoy music that probably works best in rooms of people on drugs.

Not that that's the be all and end all for me, not at all, but I don't think the two things have any real relationship. I probably listen to far weirder "druggier" music now I don't do drugs.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 09:11 (nineteen years ago)

This is all besides the point tho

And that is the last you'll hear from me.

Tim, I don't get your objection re:PCP. About anal tweaking of minute details, I direct to to 99.9% of records discussed in minimal bobbins.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 09:18 (nineteen years ago)

direct you

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 09:18 (nineteen years ago)

Am I supposed to miss you attacking me on every thread?

About anal tweaking of minute details, I direct to to 99.9% of records discussed in minimal bobbins.

Have you heard all of these records? Seems unlikely.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 09:24 (nineteen years ago)

Blunt, re PCP - how do you distinguish between sound qua sound and sound qua energy?

And re tweaking hi-hats - it was the "merely" I was querying. I was genuinely interested to know if there were specific records you thought were particularly er redundant in their hi-hat tweaking (as opposed to producers programming an interesting rhythm track to increase the push-me-pull-you attraction of the groove)... but if you're applying it to 99.9% of tracks in the minimal bobbins thread then it just seems like an empty accusation, I might as well claim that 99.9% of deep house tracks use instruments "merely" to be conservative dickhead "real music" gatekeepers, and you'd be just as entitled to disregard me as being full of shit.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 09:41 (nineteen years ago)

Tim, I'm afraid I don't understand this sound-on-sound thing, like I said. Maybe Vahid can elaborate since he brought it up.

Programming an interesting rhythm track as an end in itself = making music by & for drummers. There's got to be more than this (and a startling hookline or twist on the previous flavor of the month) to push/pull me.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 09:53 (nineteen years ago)

this thread is incredibly 2003, and the split at the top...i dont think has reflected very well on the 'fun house' guys...or they havent dated well at all. things got better again after 2003

i wonder if ronan still thinks of fatboy slim as a house dj

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:04 (nineteen years ago)

x-post;
I agree but sometimes a rhythm track works well as a groove and sometimes a rhythm track doesn't. I think the majority minimal producers are at least aiming to achieve the first result, such that it's not merely about an interesting rhythm track in itself. Some of them don't get there, of course, but it's not 99.9%.

The sound-as-sound thing - I think you're drawing a distinction between sound-obsessed minimal producers and vibe-obsessed deep house producers, and I think it's false, in that both groups are obsessed with sound and vibe - although they articulate and act upon their obsessions in different ways, certainly.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:05 (nineteen years ago)

but wasnt this, just like the real vs minimal of more recent times, just another chapter in the never ending detroit vs europe battle?

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:06 (nineteen years ago)

Funny that at the point when Ronan started the thread "Freeform 5" were in the "real" category. Their trajectory has to be one of the most radical in dance music in recent times?

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:13 (nineteen years ago)

Groove Armada and Basement Jaxx kinda started as real house too (remembering tracks like 'Pressure Breakdown' and 'Be Free').

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:14 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think time has been particularly kind to anyone in the first post, except maybe JLC and even then he's done next to nothing in 18 months.

What constitutes 'fun house' now I wonder?

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:19 (nineteen years ago)

tim wtf does "sound vs vibe" even mean?!

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:19 (nineteen years ago)

'fun house' now is somewhere between haircut house and blog house, right?

― jabba hands, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:23 (nineteen years ago)

sound = aesthetics, ideas behind and technical details of the track etc.
vibe = how fun all of that actually is to dance to

?

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:24 (nineteen years ago)

groove armada and bjaxx surely started out at fetishistic hyperreall giles peterson house?

lol@freeform five

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:26 (nineteen years ago)

This is such a ludicrous distinction to make in the first place because it's being made almost exclusively by people who are standing at the outside looking in on a crowd of people dancing to, say, minimal house and going "how can this possibly be fun to dance to?!" as if the assembled crowd are all standing there admiring the textural intricacy rather than getting their rocks off.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:26 (nineteen years ago)

Well exactly! Ha ha everytime I say "I don't know how to distinguish between sound and vibe" (in various formulations) in this thread people ask me how the hell I'm able to draw this distinction.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:29 (nineteen years ago)

groove armada and bjaxx surely started out at fetishistic hyperreall giles peterson house

as real as fake could get perhaps yes

ronan's initial example = a bunch of american dudes vs a bunch of british dudes. we could've just left it at that ha ha. and british house = what now? fragmented more than ever no? either it's euro-techy (BC or Soma-ish stuff) or actually in the charts (that new GA one) - still not aware of anything inbetween coming from this godforskaen Isle.

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:33 (nineteen years ago)

admiring the textural intricacy rather than getting their rocks off.

not mutually exclusive! the textural intricacy is a means towards the end of getting one's rocks off

all these binaries being set up seem incredibly dumb to me.

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

yes lex we all agree on this except blunt i think.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:40 (nineteen years ago)

it's being made almost exclusively by people who are standing at the outside looking in on a crowd of people dancing to, say, minimal house and going "how can this possibly be fun to dance to?!" as if the assembled crowd are all standing there admiring the textural intricacy rather than getting their rocks off.

happens with Dubstep (and 'IDM') too...but perhaps they have more of an argument there lol

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:42 (nineteen years ago)

Yes Lex I was arguing that there isn't a binary.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

we all agree on this except blunt

I have experienced a clear difference in atmosphere and purpose between a coherent (deep) house party and the generic techno/minimal house version, whether as a DJ, promoter or participant in said events.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 10:55 (nineteen years ago)

i have experienced a clear difference in atmosphere and purpose between a techno/minimal house party and a hip-hop/r&b party, whether as a dj, promoter or participant in said events

what's yr point?

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:06 (nineteen years ago)

several x-posts but actually this chimes in with Lex's last post I think:

There was a thread a few years back where I made similar arguments against drill & bass and several posters said that drill & bass was heaps fun to dance to hedonistically.

Ultimately I decided that even if this was so I just didn't like the relationship between body/groove/rhythm that the music sets up, i didn't like the fact that I couldn't match certain dance patterns to be in time with the beats due to drill & bass's deliberate failure to cohere into a groove I could predict in advance. Some people might enjoy that though. The few times I have been to events where people have danced to drill and bass, there was absolutely no effort on the part of anyone in the audience to try and match their bodies to the "groove", it was almost like their dancing was a purely formal display of appreciation for the music with no immediate connection to it (as an aside, people I know who go to worthy old skoolish live hip hop shows often dance in a similar way, only slower). I could imagine this would be fun for people, but it's not the way my body likes to show appreciation for the music it's dancing to.

I think if we're gonna talk about crowds and drugs and vibes and so on we have to be more specific about, well, crowds and drugs and vibes!

Another example: dubstep actually isn't all that texturologically intricate - any investigations as to its expression of the alleged rocks off vs admiration binary would have to take the more treacherous-to-navigate path forged previously by post-97 drum and bass as a starting point.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:10 (nineteen years ago)

"I like music I like and I hate music I hate"

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:11 (nineteen years ago)

i was one of the ones that argued against you that time, i think the truth was somewhere in between what you said and i said

blunt could use your argument against techno/minimal though, people on drugs not relating to the music but just monged out

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:14 (nineteen years ago)

definite sociology of narcotics things going on here though, where weed is often exempt, or considered more organic

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:16 (nineteen years ago)

"blunt could use your argument against techno/minimal though, people on drugs not relating to the music but just monged out"

minimal is pretty big over here now but not amongst monged out drug users. Only teh gays use ketamine really and they're still dancing to Joey Negro and/or Inaya Day.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:24 (nineteen years ago)

I guess from a sonic perspective as well minimal (or microhouse prior) has always been defined by a relationship between complexity and groove-coherence - closer to 2-step garage than drill and bass. I mean how many minimal tracks can people name that aren't basically assimilable to a 4/4 beat when all is said and done?

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:25 (nineteen years ago)

I wouldn't disagree with too much of what I said back when the thread was started. Fatboy Slim is STILL a house DJ, even if he plays remixes of Cream or whatever now, it's still house, it's "funky house" now more than anything. I think people confuse his production with his DJing.

He's been a funky house/flavour of the moment DJ for ages. I was quite surprised how much he ignored electrohouse when I had the misfortune to see him about 2 years ago. I thought at worst he'd be 2manydjs style stuff, but I guess they have taken his crown.

Minimal is big with drugged out people here, I think, but they like it plenty when not on drugs too presumably. I mean, you could use that criticism against all dance music! Seems such an archaic argument to have to retort to.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:26 (nineteen years ago)

x-post Ketamine a minority drug though even amongst gays to be honest - it's still all about crystal meth really.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:27 (nineteen years ago)

(and I shouldn't need to add, FWIW, that this idea of pristine hi-hats and stuff with "minimal" is kind of ludicrous, I mean, first of all sound design has been a part of club music since day 1, and second of all plenty of "minimal" sounds sloppy, some deliberately so. talking about "minimal" as one amorphous mass of music just cuts too many corners. does m_nus really sound like tuning spork? does get physical sound like kompakt? does connaisseur sound like mobilee?)

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:28 (nineteen years ago)

i saw the Southern Fried retrospective mix on iTunes and must confess i was quite tempted.

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:29 (nineteen years ago)

the funny (but hitherto unacknowledged here) thing about drugs vs music as well is that drugs go well with rhythmically simple dance music as well - people on drugs at trance events are very much in lockstep with the music! It's at the opposite end of the spectrum from drill & bass in that regard.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:31 (nineteen years ago)

drugs go well with everything

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:32 (nineteen years ago)

is being nice to people actually good, or do people enjoy it simply because they're monged?

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

^^ elephant in room

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

and also in hallway (is a smallish room)

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

i am often nice but never monged.

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:51 (nineteen years ago)

what's yr point?

You tell me. I'm stating a fact that I think doesn't have so much to do with music/drug/age/crowd/etc differences. Maybe you think I have all the answers and am slowly letting you in on some secret? Which involves ridiculous claims of "guardianship of true..." this'n'that? Fuck no.

There's something either generally absent in a minimal/techno event or often present at its' house counterpart and you don't know what it is, Mr. Jones.

And neither do I -but it's there for all to feel, only I doubt any posters in this thread frequent the latter type of event with any regularity, which means nobody here knows what I'm talking about.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

I think you are talking about how you like house more than minimal techno, in a very patronising way.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think it has anything to do with what I like but you're the second person to say that so clearly that's how I come off to some of you.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

you come off to me like that as well too:/

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

but as you say, most of the people here tend to go to minimal/techno things rather than house, and may be unaware of the extra something that is lacking at techno and minimal nights. having not gone to a house night in a long while, i cant really argue the fact!

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

And neither do I -but it's there for all to feel, only I doubt any posters in this thread frequent the latter type of event with any regularity, which means nobody here knows what I'm talking about.

whereas you know about "99.9 percent of stuff on the minimal bobbins thread"? I'd say most of the people who actually post and enjoy the music on that thread haven't heard a decent percentage of it.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

also you know, if people here did start going to those events, you'd have to like something else.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

there should be some extra seats at Elland Road next season

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:08 (nineteen years ago)

Weird how my observations have a threatening effect on some. Ignorance breeds contempt, sarcasm and the like.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

don't see any sarcasm/contempt.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

i maybe ignorant but im not contemptuous:(

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

wasnt even being sarcastic! difficulty of reading tone on the internet!

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

Blunt there definitely is a different feel to deep house nights than to minimal/techno nights (in general terms - there's also different feels between events within these categories), but don't you think the fact that you actively prefer deep house to minimal, and indeed DJ in the sub-genre, colours somewhat your perception of what is "objectively" going on?

If not, then you need to be more specific about what this difference is - at the moment it's only coming across as some sort of vague feeling you have.

e.g. if you said "at deep house nights people are kinder to eachother" and then regaled us with an example, people might still disagree, but at least it wouldn't seem like such an empty argument.

Personally, my sense of part of the difference in feel at deep house nights: there's less of a sense of separation between the dancing and the socialising, perhaps because the music is less invasive - whenever I'm at clubs that are playing deep house the spatial arrangement of people feels far more fluid in that you have huddled groups of people talking, sometimes right next to the DJ booth, and usually right next to people dancing. Whereas minimal/techno nights there is usually a clear physical demarcation between the people who are dancing and those who aren't.

I was dancing at a deep house bar a few years ago and the set culminated with Donna Allen's "He Is The Joy", and I remember feeling something of that communal celebratory vibe you seem to be talking about - the crowd positively sparked with shared enthusiasm for this big tune ("Finally" used to do this too I remember).

But i've had similar experiences at minimal/techno nights when anthems have come on. The mood is slightly different though in that anthems in minimal/techno (and I'm thinking of experiences dancing to the Superpitcher remix of "The Difference It Makes" or to "Rej" or to "Mouth To Mouth") tend to belong to more of a rave-euphoria lineage, so while everyone in the crowd is vibing off of everyone else's enjoyment, the tune itself doesn't have its own communal-celebration narrative for that enjoyment to plug back into, it's more like "all these people are feeling the same thing I'm feeling and I'm feeling what they're feeling" as opposed to "we are all participating in a feeling that is older than any of us". To make up for it, the hedonism factor is usually higher.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

you're all twats. there, is that better?

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

where do these pre-conceptions about 'minimal' dance music come from?

by the by i checked out those remixes of 'From Disco: To Disco' that came out late last year on Beatport. They thoughtfully had a 'real house' mix, a 'fun house' mix and a 'clicky/minimal' mix. I thought all were equally great!

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

every time i listen to one of ronan's mixes i'm ALMOST convinced to submit to minimal but i never quite give in.

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:23 (nineteen years ago)

(the main thing I remember about dancing to Kings of Tomorrow's "Finally" was dancing at an afterparty at the 2002 Sydney Mardi Gras, and this totally hot guy was dancing opposite me in denim overalls (and it appeared nothing else) which were folded down at the waist and kept on slipping below that point)

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:24 (nineteen years ago)

its weird that in 2007 this thread hasnt even gone near the techno/house vs nu-rave thing, which is kind of a reformulating of boundaries about what is 'proper'... or maybe it did earlier, when i was in the kitchen

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:25 (nineteen years ago)

i also wonder if the reason i'm so sympathetic to blog house (other than spencer and maybe vahid, i think i'm the only person on ilm!) is because it's all i ever hear when i go out. i think i have dance music stockholm syndrome!

xpost!!

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:26 (nineteen years ago)

you're all twats. there, is that better?

I think the "i" and the "e" on your keyboard are mixed up Jess.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:27 (nineteen years ago)

i have some sympathy for what is known by some as 'blog house' altho i find the House part of that description inadequate.

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:28 (nineteen years ago)

what do you propose then, steve?

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

"electronic pogo-pop"

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

"nu-grebo"

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

Jess please note that I have quite bravely done not one two reviews of Ed Banger comps for Pitchfork now!

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

this is true. you were rather curt with them.

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:30 (nineteen years ago)

i still dont know what blog house is!

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

yes you do.

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

I propose a voyage to Cape Dread to recover the trove of the wiggly worm. I'll need 50 able-bodied men and enough waxed dates to prevent scurvy for the duration of the journey. Arr.

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

i think it has something to do with this

http://www.republish.org/wp-content/upload/xlr8r104cover.jpg

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

actually, really i dont. im gonna go google though

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

oh...bloghouse and nurave are the same thing?

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

blog house = remixes of nu rave

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

blog house in the french end of things i think. nu-rave is shit british indie

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

blog house has its moments (one in every 100). nu-rave doesn't.

i must remember to read tim's ed banger reviews just so i can see what tim being negative is like.

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

god i have so many unwrapped ed banger promos on my desk :(

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

I thought my last review was quite positive, I just hate Uffie mainly. Krazy Baldhead's "Strings of Death" is amazing!

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

i'm usually drunk at these parties anyway so they could be playing blog house remixes of don henley and i'd probably bob my head to them

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

oh ok i guess i sort of thought it was that.

but that time at the end, with the horrible overdriven bass, those tracks, thats nurave isnt it?

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

that one uffie song is normally about as much as i can take! it's funny. 'ready to uff', i mean.

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

Yah Mo B There (Sebastian mix)

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

Tim -be more specific about what this difference is - at the moment it's only coming across as some sort of vague feeling you have.

That's indeed where I'm at! Was trying to harness the ilm hivemind to make more sense of it. So thank you for bringing something in a constructive spirit, especially: the tune itself doesn't have its own communal-celebration narrative for that enjoyment to plug back into, it's more like "all these people are feeling the same thing I'm feeling and I'm feeling what they're feeling" as opposed to "we are all participating in a feeling that is older than any of us". Food for thought at last.

However, you're talking about sudden crests in intensity, a "spark" suggesting the floor was somewhat dormant or business-as-usual-y immediately before the TUNE drops; whereas I'm talking about maintaining that feeling over time in a less hysteric way.

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

though i have never heard 'ready to uff' sober, it must be said

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

don henley is ok! no michael mcdonald, but still

hivemind is confusing, i always forget whos in and whos out:/

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

i don't mind ready to uff. secret shame.

don henley is great! the point being more that he doesnt need to be blog-house remixed.

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

I haven't heard "Ready To Uff". I didn't mind "Pop The Glock" but "Dismissed" is truly awful. Or maybe it's the sinking realisation that she's planning to make a career out of the schtick.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

The return of Psychedelia???

Is there anything that CAN'T be assimilated into this giant rolling snowball of BS now? My mistake for not realising noize dude aesthetics are now Nu-Rave too, 'cos they have like colours & shit too!!11!!1

― fandango, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

My brother got me the second Ed Banger comp for my birthday. I haven't opened it yet though I swore I would try and listen to it.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

i'm for anything that has someone saying they are ready to fuck

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

i'll also apparently forgive the french anything

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:46 (nineteen years ago)

I like the idea of noize dude/freak folk being part of nu-rave e.g. Animal Collective - Winter Love (Kissy Sellout's Love My White Bitches Mix)

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

"i'll also apparently forgive the french anything"

Really the appropriate name for Blog House is "Freedom House".

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

The Sebastian mixes of 'Pop The Glock', 'Bossy' and maybe Nadiya's 'Tous Ces Mots' is all the haircut-electro (as in all the non 4-4 stuff) side of Ed Banger you'll ever need.

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

Kissy Sellout are the only blog house I really like I think. Well, the only blog house with 'durr durr' basslines anyway.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:49 (nineteen years ago)

Or maybe it's the sinking realisation that she's planning to make a career out of the schtick.

yeah it was a nasty shock when she released a second single and people paid attention to it.

freak-folk is the worst of the worst, i'm slowly realising. all those put-on voices.

the feadz track on the latest bpitch camping comp is really good, it doesn't really sound all that ed bangery.

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

the phrase "nu french touch" makes me a little uncomfortable. i'm much happier with "blog house."

wait wait wait there's actually an act called KISSY SELLOUT? i might be turned around on this.

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

no one into dance music should be slagging off anything for "put on voices."

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

I like the idea of noize dude/freak folk being part of nu-rave e.g. Animal Collective - Winter Love (Kissy Sellout's Love My White Bitches Mix)

-- Tim F

Luomo black dice remix? nU rAVE?

I feel like the NME pwned music itself :/

― fandango, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

i like that Uffie did a beef/diss track against a messageboard (not ILM alas)

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

Also clearly blog house fits here because every time someone slates a Justice release or something someone goes "I saw them in Chicago, they were really fun, fuck all this chinstroking etc etc".

There's a Kissy Sellout mix of 'Bucky Done Gun' where they give her this really deep booming voice, it's great.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

I'm more interested in this 'Krazy Baldhead', although I never bothered to check out 'Lazy Fat People' on Ronan's recommendation so maybe a stupid name isn't enough to pique my interest any more.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:52 (nineteen years ago)

I quite like most Sebastian. Generally the Ed Banger stuff I like is the stuff that (unintentionally?) sounds like Nine Inch Nails/Depeche Mode.

Yeah Matt check out "Strings of Death", it's like the best rock-house anthem since "Monstertruckdriver" perhaps.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:53 (nineteen years ago)

these names are kinda off putting. or seductive. can't tell.

― blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

so where does jesse rose/switch/et al fit into all of this?

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

it's like the "blog house it's okay for techno people to like."

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

matt, that lazy fat people track was really good, you should check it out.

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:55 (nineteen years ago)

Lazy Fat People is real house though, right? I can't keep up.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:57 (nineteen years ago)

Lazy Fat People - European (so fake) but got a 12 inch on Planet E (so real)

They're not "fun", but they're good. Lex are you referring to "Shinjuku"?

― Tim F, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

yes!

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

btw those controversial get physical remixes and exclusives have landed in my lap just this second. i will listen & report.

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:01 (nineteen years ago)

Can't resist mentioning I wrote on LFP over a year ago (french-language mag) http://www.partynews.ch/magazine/123/fr/pdf/16.pdf

― blunt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:07 (nineteen years ago)

I am disappointed that this tread doesn't involve Pat Sharpe in some way.

― chap, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

isn't he in the Klaxons now?

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:11 (nineteen years ago)

do you like them blunt?

― Ronan, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:18 (nineteen years ago)

Do I like blunt klaxons?

Oh, I see what you mean.

― chap, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

the spatial arrangement of people feels far more fluid in that you have huddled groups of people talking, sometimes right next to the DJ booth, and usually right next to people dancing [...] "we are all participating in a feeling that is older than any of us"

this is also true of the oldschool techno nights i have attended over the last couple of years, and around these parts 'old school' means hawtin/bell/proto-kompakt cologne brutalism, ie music completely devoid of 'soul vibes' or 'real instruments' or whatever. so its mostly a scene thing i guess. lots of nostalgic old folks in the crowd = good vibrations

― ☪, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:22 (nineteen years ago)

you don't need real instruments to have soul :D

― tricky, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

i like tim's observation waaaaay upthread about drill'n'bass vs drum'n'bass.

what i have personally observed is that people at deep house nights actually dance, and dance well, like people at r+b nights. at minimal nights i see a lot of jittery bobbing-in-place (excepting the odd raver) so the vibe is a lot more like a dancehall night. electrohouse/blog house nights fall somewhere in between, much like hiphop nights, with a lot of fairly respectable things happening but also quite a lot of wite kids doing very cringeworthy and awkward stuff.

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

^^ last few words there = my feelings about uffie

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 17:04 (nineteen years ago)

i heard dbx losing control out the other day, it must have been sat but im not sure

― 600, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 17:30 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know how the original distinction was made but I felt this when I was listening to that MIA (substatic MIA) record the other day and it seemed so careful and precise like it didn't want to break a sweat or mess up its hair or spill its drink and I just thought fuck this and spent the rest of the day listening to Moodymann and UK Garage.

Probably not what's being discussed here, but I wanted to vent.

― admrl, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 17:38 (nineteen years ago)

where does this fit in?

http://www.myspace.com/bananasandecstasy

― admrl, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 17:44 (nineteen years ago)

lol

― admrl, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 17:44 (nineteen years ago)

Sounds like some hipster kids are trying to sound like Liquid Liquid without the hooks.

xpst adamrl

― Display Name, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 19:42 (nineteen years ago)

that'd certainly be the first time THAT had ever happened!

― pshrbrn, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

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