"Combat Rock" by The Clash - classic or dud

i don't like "london calling", i like "...enough rope"

Wow, seven posts in and no Clash haters. Raggett must not be up yet.

a good alb is indeed a good alb. even if its 'yuppie' (whatever that means).

LONDON CALLING has become one of those albums that people go out and buy because they're told to, not because they necessarily are moved by the music therein. That's not the Clash's fault, it's Jann Wenner's fault.

(b) You know what I'm getting at. LONDON CALLING has been so deified that it's become a rather stodgy standby that people arbitrarily pick up because they're constantly informed that it's a MUST-HAVE, just like DARK SIDE OF THE MOON and fuckin' SGT. PEPPERS. I still love it, but you know what I'm getting at.

also, Jesse: read yr bit in No Depression, good stuff.

Of course it's great that people are buying LONDON CALLING, but I guess I just don't like seeing it being put in a fuckin' museum.

But it looks like this thread has since changed directions.

Combat Rock = Straight To Hell and Casbah and, erm, not a lot else. But those two are as good as anything they ever did.

2) Lots of discussions here seem to be implicitly about canonization, while trying to knock other popes' hats off.

I was on the phone, dammit. Oh, and fuck the Clash and everything they stand for and ever were, including this album. There, happy? ;-)

COMPLETELY ANNOYED RANT STATEMENT OF THE DAY: I can name at least fifteen Manic Street Preachers songs I would rather listen to than anything by the Clash. And this includes an album cut from Know Your Enemy called "Intravenous Agnostic," which I don't think even the Manics obsessives like.

I was kind of pissed off at Richey today when he forgot and left whipped cream on my Frappucino. It's all good though. He says hi.

You make this sound like a bad thing!

As for Richey, I want all the cultists to know that I dug him up from his grave, and fucked him. His skeleton.

(RED: "Listen you yellow-bellied sonofabitch...")

*emo*

And you only got sloppies with Richey. Erlewine was there first.

An unfortunate skin condition, that. Use some Bactine.

Erlewine was there first.

"Icky!"
"DOUBLE ICKY!"

'that sounded all misogynistical 'n' shit'
'like, yeah, what's up with that?'

"Camera one... camera two!"

The songs most people like are the songs I like. The songs most people dislike are the ones I dislike. Wow!

Oh but Nate this tells us so much more about you than about the Manics
OR the Clash.

haha sorry, I'll stop.�

This was a really good tape to have when my brothers and I were being driven all around Wyoming and Montana and Idaho by my mom and her boyfriend for two months. We used to turn up the Sony boombox in the back seat and rock out. We had to turn it down when the bad words came on, though, or my mom would remember that it was her boyfriend's turn to play HIS music and then it'd be Red-Headed Stranger by Willie Nelson. Which I also now love. But not as much as Combat Rock. All of it.

Ha ha ha - but seriously folks - look at all the above posts - everyone mentions a different song they like from CR. It can't be a dud, can it? London Calling kicks it's ass, but I like Combat Rock just fine.

combat rock is simply the natural progression.

as someone who first found about the clash through the great chorus "should i stay or should i go......" on the radio durring 7th grade....well i am glad they got that exposure. this album rocks....it's no london calling but then again an apple ain't an orange

And basically the rest of it too, in spite of myself.

Could be right about this - it may actually have been why I first purchased it. I was a few years too young to be into the Clash at the time, after all. But it is a blast from start to finish - I just played it the other day, and it holds up and then some.

On "Overpowered by Funk," the keyboard is credited to one Poly Mandell. Is this a pseudonym for someone else, I wonder (or even a misspelling)? I can't find any information about her.

It's Howie Mandel.

!!!!

bump

still dud

i am drunk but right

that is all

On "Overpowered by Funk," the keyboard is credited to one Poly Mandell. Is this a pseudonym for someone else, I wonder (or even a misspelling)? I can't find any information about her.

-- roxymuzak, Thursday, April 17, 2008 4:09 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

Seriously.

I'm starting to think that the identity of this person died with Strummy. Futura won't take my calls.

mark s rong again

mark s korrekt agane

ah this album is fun/funny

how many haters ever actually got rid of their copy is what I want to know

'cause if you did then LOL u a fool

funk OUT

heehee

"overpowered by funk"

good old shakey

let us bond over our shared love of A.E. Van Vogt

that's a sentence you don't see every day

the e stands for elton

albums like this are why i'm going to miss the big ugly bloated music industry : (

This album is absolutely classic with a few duds.

Better than everything between CR and The Clash.

you're saying combat rock is better than everything between combat rock and the first album?

i mean

maybe there is a better way to say this, man

just bustin your balls pal

<, not <= dude.

On "Overpowered by Funk," the keyboard is credited to one Poly Mandell. Is this a pseudonym for someone else, I wonder (or even a misspelling)? I can't find any information about her.

Whoever she is, maybe she should have done the rapping.

ooh, burn!

futura's email inbox is overquota

Really hoping Don Letts restores and completes the Clash on Broadway film, the raw footage of which turned up last year, and part of which became the "This Is Radio Clash" video with Futura in disguise.

Yeah, the fact that the footage was uncovered is v v exciting.

I love this record.

I've been a die-hard Clash fan now for what, 20, 30 years? and just this week heard The Rat Patrol from Fort Bragg for the first time--Google to download. Thank you, Internet!

Socca song! Steel-drum funk song! Sax solo on "Should I Stay or Should I Go"! Not quite Sandinista!, and the mixes aren't better than the final versions of the same songs, IMO, but that's partly because they're so rough: Interesting and forward-looking of Mick not to emphasize the guitar so much as Glyn Johns did, and a more final Mick version of "Know Your Rights" might have been truly awesome. The sequence is better too, maybe, and no "Overpowered by Funk" (would have liked to hear that with less guitars too--the whole song should sound like its opening bars).

People used to call The Clash out on so many things, so they pack over conceptual arguments, and their space is taken by U2 who never get accused over anything because nobody cares.

the best clash album maybe

dang, I used to listen to this album a lot in high school but I hadn't heard it in about 10 years before I got the sudden urge to hear it last week. I forgot what a great, weird album this is. I didn't remember the toilet bowl cleaner ad in "Inoculated City," was that in all the versions? "Ghetto Defendant" is amazing, "Overpowered by Funk" just keeps adding more and more ridiculous parts, etc.

love this album. so good.

but has that very common mobile phone ringtone sound always been in rock the casbah around 1 min 50?

I listened to it for the first time in ages the other day, and thought it was great - all the way through great. However Mrs The New Dirty Vicar thought it sounded "dated".

xp Yep, that sound was always there, at least on the album version. It's not on the single version. I believe the sound originated from a digital alarm watch.

There's several zany samples on the record, artifacts of a much more ornate (and some would say bloated) mix that predates the one released as Combat Rock. Clash fans will definitely be interested in the earlier mix, though, as it makes the record a lot more like Sandinista. It goes by the name "Rat Patrol at Fort Bragg."

For my part, I really love Combat Rock. Despite a couple of weaker numbers, I think it's the record where they really work out their relationship to dub most effectively (i.e. not by copying, but by translating). Also some of the b-sides like Cool Confusion and First Night Back in London are the nuts.

ah okay - i think as i knew the single version so well from radioplay when it was reissued in the early 90s that sample on the album has always sounded odd.

love this period of The Clash so much. honestly nowadays feel that this lp and Sandinista are superior to the first three lps for me.

I've been a die-hard Clash fan now for what, 20, 30 years? and just this week heard The Rat Patrol from Fort Bragg for the first time--Google to download. Thank you, Internet!
Socca song! Steel-drum funk song! Sax solo on "Should I Stay or Should I Go"!....
― Pete Scholtes, Monday, March 22, 2010 9:40 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^ Yes! I'm three songs in and this is so fun!

So glad I clicked on this. I cannot wait to hear Rat Patrol.

Total 100% classic. I've been listening to this album in the car for the past two days and was actually considering posting to the "favorite albums from bands that are not the usual favorite album" or whatever thread. I put this on over just about every Clash album, or at least certainly on par with "Sandinista!" and "London Calling." Listen to the early stuff less and less these days...

Not to get completely arcane (read geeked) but I'm pretty sure that the "phone sound" at 1'50" of the album version of "Casbah" is the touchdown sound from the Mattel handheld football game!

http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Mattel/FB.htm

on par with "Sandinista!" and "London Calling." Listen to the early stuff less and less these days...

it is definitely better (ie, shorter) than Sandanista. but otm about the early stuff

Not to get completely arcane (read geeked) but I'm pretty sure that the "phone sound" at 1'50" of the album version of "Casbah" is the touchdown sound from the Mattel handheld football game!

Wow, I think I recognized this without recognizing it my whole life. Thank you!

is there really no 'combat rock' poll??

Poll the albumopolis
List the good songspolis

Spilled into this album because Straight To Hell came up on Discover Weekly and was really surprised at how much I instantaneously dug it, and for some reason I had always had this impression from a distance that it had a poor critical reputation, but the back end of it full of weird enjoyable stuff with Ginsberg talking and saxophones and generally a much lighter touch than I expected from a band whose contemporary videos made them seem like stadium rockers.

Listened to Combat Rock a few months back for the first time in probably 20 years and had forgot that theLP mix of Rock the Casbah was different. That's a song I hear quite a bit on the radio and hearing that different mix surprised me.

this is a good album imo

This is my fave Clash album. I live how weird and fevered a lot of it sounds.

uneven and some of it sounds dated, but some strong moments

Straight to Hell is one of their best. It is such a sad song. That dry sound they use on Strummer's voice get's a similar vibe as Sly on Family Affair. The double tracked percussion panned wide really works well too,

True

I THOUGHT I SAW LAUREN BACALL
I THOUGHT I SAW LAUREN BACALL
HEY FELLAS - HEY FELLAS?
LAUREN BACALL!

A MAN WHO STOOD UP AGINST THE SCUM THE FILF

I'm digging the Fort Bragg bootleg that leaked years ago.

Then I thought, what it would be like if Jones was like Robbie Robertson, remixing and resequencing the album à la Stage Fright with the same exact sleeve notes: "The album has become a whole new listening experience with the original song order and the depth of these mixes. There may be some purists that prefer 'the way it was' and of course that’s readily available. I’m enjoying this new version, this new story, this musical journey. It feels like a fulfillment and I know my brothers in The Clash would definitely agree." Even with the back story on Combat Rock (how it was mixed without his presence and Johns basically blowing off his input and saying "sorry, too late"), it's still impossible to imagine Jones doing that 'cause he ain't a dick like Robertson.

Then I thought, what it would be like if

…….. how many Fort Bragg versions do you think have been “leaked” in the last 39 years

Damn if I know, I don't keep track! The one I heard was actually "upgraded" by a fan who actually sequenced it in Mick's original order:

Side A:

1. Straight To Hell

2. Know Your Rights

3. Rock The Casbah

4. Red Angel Dragnet

Side B:

5. Should I Stay Or Should I Go

6. Ghetto Defendant

7. Sean Flynn

Side C:

8. Car Jamming

9. The Fulham Connection

10. Atom Tan

11. First Night Back in London

Side D:

12. Inoculated City

13. Death is a Star

14. Cool Confusion

15. Idle in Kangaroo Court W1

it's still impossible to imagine Jones doing that 'cause he ain't a dick like Robertson.

Indeed he ain’t. Back in the mid-‘00s, Epic was planning a 2CD deluxe Combat Rock reissue, complete with the original Rat Patrol mix and sequence. But Jones shut it down, saying it wasn’t right to release material that had been such a point of contention between him and Strummer with Joe no longer around to give his input.

Thanks. Just found this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LydRMPvW850

Then there is this

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxe6Ls1C2GNZE2EAaEXRYC2XRd9-COrZf

And this

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8DB69F633066B014

Looks like one of those was taken from this one, which is the fan upgrade. Using that famous photo as the cover is a terrible idea though.

Oh yeah, that is awful

I much prefer the drawn-out woozier Know Your Rights. I like how the spectre of dub enters into every part of Jones' mixes, and totally see why that wasn't viable at the time.

Totally missed this, but Masterdisk acetates for a rejected single LP version made before Glyn Johns came in and sometime after Mick sequenced his hour-long double LP version were auctioned off a little over two months ago. A low-res stream of each acetate side can still be accessed, and it sounds better than any bootleg out there:

https://bid.omegaauctions.co.uk/auction/lot/344-the-clash---rat-patrol-from-fort-brag-acetate-lp-the-original-combat-rock/?lot=8523&fbclid=IwAR1IpzdEirjCmKCdtiVFw_ujMw9fyRr9MeapPij_xCa6qtxlD7pZ4PUZPlQ

Actually the streaming link doesn't seem to work, at least on the browser I'm now using, but someone on a Clash forum ripped it - here's the link.

until this thread revival, i had no idea re the different version of this album (or of the chaos behind its release).
listening to it now, and yeah, much prefer this version of 'know your rights'.
cheers for the pointer BITW.

Using that famous photo as the cover is a terrible idea though.

Agreed, so I made my own camouflaged version: https://imgur.com/a/VmB4fc6

Until I heard the Ft Bragg version I always thought there was something truncated feeling about “Know Your Rights” even though it was a favorite, and even though he’s says “all three of em”. It’s like a gag with not enough build up, timing off.

Also, how is "Know Your Rights" not the first track on Fort Bragg? It's so obviously a Track 1 song. Especially coming out of "Straight to Hell"--you've got to build to a segue like that.

I've seen different running orders to this thing of course, but Straight to Hell is also sooo not a track 1 song.

I should add, as much as some (like myself) prefer Fort Bragg, it was still a work-in-progress. Even with Mick still with us, what he thinks now isn't going to be what he would've done then, so who knows what the final track sequence would have been (in which case, "Straight to Hell" might've lost its opening spot). And it's too bad the band didn't go along with his plan to make longer mixes and a double LP, because who knows how they could've improved it had they worked towards his original vision.

Strange how keeping this as a double LP feels better to me because I always wished Sandinista! had been reduced to a double LP with at least the dubs and the most disposable stuff saved for a separate 12-track release or a promo LP of some kind.

When I was deep in the throes of Sandanista! a couple of months ago I listened to Combat Rock and it just seemed like a mess - they had pushed the experimentation and punky-dub too far.

I listened yesterday again, including to the Fort Bragg versions, and Combat Rock clicked. I immediately walked to the record store and picked up a copy. I do agree that some of the tracks seem truncated on the Combat Rock versions, especially Inoculated City.

Were any other bands of this era (or any other) putting out this kind of weird, dub-y punk? I need more of this. The one album that kind of reminds me of this, at least in vibe, is XTRMNTR, though it is more aggro than sorrowful, more pre-millennial than Combat Rock's post-Vietnam/Colonial.

Combat Rock is one of those rare albums that's both the band's biggest hit and also its weirdest and most experimental. REM pulled this off, too.

Were any other bands of this era (or any other) putting out this kind of weird, dub-y punk?

Wrongtom put together a compilation of all sorts of one-off singles that definitely meet this criteria back in 2012.
He recently dropped his spare cd/vinyl copies up on bandcamp.

https://rongorongorongo.bandcamp.com/album/spiky-dread-issue-one-2

Also, the Fort Bragg version of Innoculated City is basically when Mick Jones 'invented' B.A.D.
the whole sound and extra parts were totally recycled for their debut album, but especially 'Bottom Line'.

thanks, mark! I will check out that comp!

I always loved the Rush and The Globe videos when they were on MTV back in the day, but never listened to their earlier stuff. They don't ever go for the grim political bent of Sandinista! and Combat Rock, do they?

Combat Rock is one of those rare albums that's both the band's biggest hit and also its weirdest and most experimental. REM pulled this off, too.

― Josh in Chicago

"The biggest hit is the most alienating album" should be a poll option.

I always blink when remembering Autobahn hit the U.S. top five.

They don't ever go for the grim political bent of Sandinista! and Combat Rock, do they?

I think Mick gets a little political on the debut, which for me is a much better-realized "Clash" album than Cut The Crap, though it's pretty inconsistent. "Medicine Show" in particular is the most coulda-been-a-Clash-song, but also a pretty clear illustration of why Paul and Joe wanted Mick out (though, ironically, they're both in that song's video).

I knew Strummer produced the second record, but I didn't realize he co-wrote half the songs, too.

the weirdest and most experimental r.e.m. album is probably up?

and as weird as combat rock is, sandinista is still more alienating and out there overall. neither has ever managed to click with me really, each has a few good moments but they're totally impenetrable as wholes. it's hard to imagine that the original planned double album version of combat rock with extended mixes etc. could have been anything but a more difficult listen

I always blink when remembering Autobahn hit the U.S. top five.

I just did the same so I had to look it up to be sure - alas, it was actually #25, not #5, but for the U.S. charts in 1975 still impressive nonetheless.

I think Mick gets a little political on the debut, which for me is a much better-realized "Clash" album than Cut The Crap, though it's pretty inconsistent. "Medicine Show" in particular is the most coulda-been-a-Clash-song, but also a pretty clear illustration of why Paul and Joe wanted Mick out (though, ironically, they're both in that song's video).

I always preferred listening to BAD's singles (albeit unedited) rather than their albums in their entirety, but that first album is definitely a better Clash album than Cut the Crap. WAY better. It's not really the Clash without the others, but it's a definite extension of what they had already achieved from album to album up to that point.

FWIW, I once tried mixing solo Clash tracks post-1982 the way some people mix solo Beatles tracks, but it's the same effect in both cases - you kind of get something that hints at a potential album had they all stayed together, but without the others each cut feels very much like a solo work.

I just did the same so I had to look it up to be sure - alas, it was actually #25, not #5,

The singles, yes. I meant the album.

(why I italicized it)

I knew Strummer produced the second record, but I didn't realize he co-wrote half the songs, too.

The better half IIRC, and generally better than his own solo material. I love Strummer, and he's done good film soundtracks like Walker and When Pigs Fly, but his own records were always frustrating, like they should've been better.

The singles, yes. I meant the album.

Ahhh, my mistake, and yes, that is mighty impressive!

Probably the most immaculately produced Clash record.

Also, this comment from way upthread in 2003 is otm. Combat Rock has a ton of space in the mix even though it is meant to be nightmarish and guitars and dub effects just seem to jump out of nowhere.

I just watched this for the first time in over 30 years. I think the former Clash bandmates were working through some shit (starting around 4:10).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD2kWCfTcaU

Inspired by the (other) thread, I was playing the first album, and in the middle of "(White Man) In Hammersmith Palais" my daughter looked up from her phone and growled "Can you turn this off? It's super annoying." Broke my heart. But then two nights later I was listening to "Straight to Hell" and she said it again! "Can you skip this, this is annoying." Kids today ...

“no but can i skip YOU? yr the one that’s annoying”

also i am not a parent so idk if this would go over really at all

lol that's pretty much how it went.

my go to: "you payin rent here? no? im pickin the songs right now. you can leave if you want."

Ha, the first time we were in the car. "My way or the highway! Literally!"

<3

LOL, if I had a kid who did that, I'd be like "wow, I've spawned my parents."

I was just bummed that of all the songs, *those* are the ones she thought were annoying? (Conversely, maybe they were just the ones she couldn't ignore, so ... advantage Clash?)

Ahem. https://www.npr.org/sections/ablogsupreme/2009/06/jazz_and_dads_a_short_essay_1.html

Scroll down to the part about Ray Vega if you are in a hurry.

It probably wasn't her problem with it, but I can see "Straight To Hell" not passing the wokeness test with some listeners today.

Yeah, she wasn't listening to the words. God knows, I've listened to the band regularly for the better part of 30 years and to my shame even I barely know what Strummer is saying on most songs half of the time.

had a similar moment to that Vega story happen last week: on a family vacation, early morning i'm in the kitchen making pancakes & listening to quiet charlie parker ballads, my 4y/o niece walks through the door, i havent seen her in months, my face lights up with joy, she just locks eyes w/me and immediately growls "what is this music I HATE IT!!!!"

I dunno, I don't expect kids to find Coltrane or post-post experements any more appealing than pasta puttanesca or marinated mushrooms. You gotta work up to some stuff. My toddler liked "Come on-a my House", and as a college student loves Marked Men, which I suppose may lead eventually to Coltrane and the Clash. She asked about the Wipers the other day.

My parents had The Other Village Vanguard Tapes, and I tried a few times at age 15, but couldn't latch on to more than the familiar bits of Greensleeves.

I've had classmates in high school and college who won't watch or listen to anything old, sometimes for the most inane reasons (which pains me to say because they're otherwise intelligent and thoroughly decent people). Unless someone's really engaged or cares about whatever art form you're talking about, you can't be surprised if they have an excessively narrow view of what's listenable or watchable, regardless of age.

But that is especially true for children, and you can't expect them to have "good" taste. I spent countless hours watching garbage when I was a kid. I thoroughly enjoyed it. But I also grew up and it was painfully obvious how shitty many of those TV shows were when I tried to revisit them for nostalgia's sake in high school, and I mean thoroughly shitty from the writing to the music to technical aspects like animation.

there are a lot of things about this band you can’t expect to impress people much these days, unless they just happen to connect with it the right age (mid teens?). the eclecticism seems less impressive now because it’s almost the rule and why would you chose clash-reggae or clash-rap or clash-funk over less, you know, clunky examples of those genres? (also I assume the reggae etc interpolations meant a lot more socially at the time than they do now)

(I think “white man” is still one of their better songs, maybe not entirely down to them, but I’ve never been quite sure how to take it - the usual line is he’s being self-critical about his own tourism, privilege, projection which is certainly part of it but it’s pretty murky - and what’s wrong with the four tops? not revolutionary enough?)

According the Genius annotations, yes.

I think there's a big difference between expecting your kids to like hours of free jazz skronk vs not expecting them to find "White Man" or "Straight to Hell" "annoying." Granted, everything adults do is annoying to teens, but of all the songs to call annoying, those are not them. "Overpowered by Funk," fine. "What's My Name?" maybe. But a call to arms anthem and a beautiful, thematically complex, melancholy anti-anthem?

my kid was really into Gorguts - Obscura which was endearing until I remembered i didn't have a kid and wondered who was in my house

"straight to hell", while its a total masterpiece, i can imagine how someone who is not in the mood for it could find it annoying. "white man" otoh is one of those songs that is so ridiculously engaging and catchy that its hard for me to imagine anyone having a strong negative reaction to it.

i was gonna express surprise that kids wouldnt at least connect with "hell" immediately as being the hook from "paper planes", but then i realized that song itself is almost 15 years old now :\

High school aged bendy didn't get Straight to Hell in 1983 or whenever I first heard it, or for years afterwards. I loved the dub grooves of Sandinista but they lost me with the wider-world beats of Combat Rock at the time. A few years later, so desperate for Clash product, I saw B.A.D. as a big step up, and retroactively started to appreciate it. Really it took subsequent Public Enemy and Adrian Sherwood and such for Combat Rock's collage to make sense.

It took Havana 3am to help me appreciate (early) BAD.

rooting around youtube inspired by this thread, i discovered there are some nice needledrop recordings of a few Rat Patrol songs up there, uploaded a few months ago, apparently dubbed from a newly discovered acetate. i'm ripping them now while i can, excited to finally have them in decent sound quality.

Actually the streaming link doesn't seem to work, at least on the browser I'm now using, but someone on a Clash forum ripped it - here's the link.

― birdistheword, Saturday, August 7, 2021 4:28 PM (three days ago)

One Eye Open : yeah, this quoted post up there quietly linked to the acetate rips.
oh, and not youtubes.
i have been loving it since i grabbed it.

oh excellent! thx, yeah, i missed that scanning the thread - stoked to hear the rest!

wondering how many people here heard this album first (like me) vs. those whose intro to The Clash was the first album?

I def. heard "London Calling" first, though of course I heard plenty of "Rock the Casbah" on the radio as a kid.

I guess what I'm getting at is ... this was the first album by The Clash I heard/owned (on cassette) and at the time, I didn't really think that musically it was a departure or shift from anything because I didn't have the original context. Instead, I associated it with music like "Rapture" by Blondie that incorporated "underground black music" into punk, which I knew as a term but didn't know what it was "supposed" to sound like

I didn't own this first, but I heard it first, because I used to listen to Casey Kasem's American Top 40 back when "Rock the Casbah" was a hit, and I liked that a lot, so I took this cassette out from my local library. I think I heard London Calling next, then the US version of the debut, and didn't hear Give 'Em Enough Rope or Sandinista! till I was an adult.

I used to listen to Casey Kasem's American Top 40 back when "Rock the Casbah" was a hit,

same

I don't think I had Sand. until I was older, too. Had Combat, first US album, Broadway box and London Calling.

London Calling was my first intro to the Clash, but "Rock the Casbah" and "Should I Stay or Should I Go" sounded familiar so I'm certain I was exposed to them through commercials or some movie or TV show before I knew who the Clash were.

Straight to Hell was my first Clash song, but I just heard it on the radio once (many years after Combat Rock) and never heard it again. I fell in love with this song. I had just bought a family-sized bag of the then-new Peanut Butter M&Ms and had eaten like half of it and was laying in bed on a pretty serious sugar high. The DJ just announced the song as "The Clash" so I was a little lost. However, I remembered the line "it ain't Coca-Cola, it's rice", so when I saw the song title Koka Kola on the back of London Calling, I figured that was the one. Boy, was I disappointed, but I did end up really liking London Calling. Never bought Combat Rock! Bought the first Clash album and wasn't impressed. But I listened to Combat Rock years later in someone's car once while I was stoned and it was pretty great. Haven't heard it since then though.

When I bough Combat Rock in the '90s, "Straight to Hell" was a standout, but it took M.I.A. to deepen it -- here was a Tamil Londoner, a product of the so-called Third World, rubbing the song's face in two decades of cultural detritus.

For me it was London Calling cuz FM radio actually played it in 1979

Then the rest in rapid succession

I actually got to see the last US tour in October 1982 when I was 16, forever grateful

hearing the debut and london calling first, when i got combat rock next i couldnt figure out a way into it at all. aside from the singles and "straight to hell", it just seemed like a strange flailing mess. only after absorbing sandinista years later was i able to come back to it and start to figure it out.

"Sandinista!" and "Combat Rock" were both of course bolstered by studio experimentation and guest musicians and ringers and whatnot, so it's always kind of fascinating to hear how the band adapted the songs to live performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3kYZv2Dg4k

a college buddy -- future bill clinton speechwriter and later (and currently) president of the brennan center for justice at NYU school of law -- to me: "jeff, the clash just put out a three-record set! and it SUCKS!!!!"

I love both Rat Patrol and Combat Rock (also BAD). And it's great to have increasingly good versions of Rat Patrol. Having said that, I actually think the Combat Rock versions of Straight to Hell and Know Your Rights are superior. The tape edit that brings it all back to the top (the part MIA sampled) is really key to have in there twice. And Joe's ironic laid back vibe on Know Your Rights seems obviously inferior to the later version, which also has more melody. "You have the right to fish money" is hilarious though. (I think that might be only on the new acetates.)

Btw I had a bootleg of Joe and the Latino Rockabilly War where they did 2-3 songs from the second BAD album and it was awesome. I think it went up on the Doom and Gloom from the Tomb blog some years ago but I might be misremembering.

Does anyone else read the album's title as an imperative: "Rock must be defeated!"

I never had!

The "fish money" thing is hilarious, like it's some awkward translation of a Brecht polemic. Strummer's lyrics on Rat Patrol/Combat Rock are the peak of his beatnik-soapbox free association. You always know what he's getting at, yet his lines are so oblique.

as a USAer theres a lot of great strummer lines like that where i'm never sure if they're some kind of brit slang i'm unfamiliar with or a beat-poetic invention of strummer's

I just watched this for the first time in over 30 years. I think the former Clash bandmates were working through some shit

I just read in Edgy Style Mag that the title of this video is A Fistful Of Miami Vice

fish money? i heard it as food money. Is it actually fish money?

Fish
Which is my favorite dish

food money on Combat Rock, fish money in the Rat Patrol version

Fish money might be more UK-centric, as in fish and chips. Fish money is about as uncommon as "burger money" but it doesn't sound like an awkward phrase - like if someone in the U.S. said "I need burger money" it would sound fine as a colloquial sentence.

The more I think about it, fish money is more to the point, and not in an abstract way at all. It's a very concrete detail - this came up a lot in the debate over fast food needing to be healthier (circa mid to late '00s) but it's something that would especially impact the poor and working class. When I was a poor visiting student in London at a time when the exchange rate was ridiculous (more than two U.S. dollars per pound), the only cheap, satisfying meal I could get was fish and chips.

*it was something that would especially impact

Anyway, just to clarify a bit, when I hear "fish money," it has a lot more context than just "food money" - it feels more like welfare or government aid. The verse in full:

You have the right to (fish) money
Providing of course
You don't mind a little
Investigation, humiliation
And if you cross your fingers
Rehabilitation

idk my 12 year old reading of "food money" was that it referred to welfare and government aid, especially in the context of the verse. Granted this was in the mid-80s when US political discourse was still focused on "welfare queens" and "ketchup as a vegetable" in terms of healthy school lunches for poor children.

I assumed it just meant "no one should go hungry." A la:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auipNs8mqi8

idk my 12 year old reading of "food money" was that it referred to welfare and government aid, especially in the context of the verse. Granted this was in the mid-80s when US political discourse was still focused on "welfare queens" and "ketchup as a vegetable" in terms of healthy school lunches for poor children.

I should clarify, I actually don't think the intended meaning was changed, but "fish money" just gives it the right detail where it really sinks in for me. BUT, you're absolutely right about the American context - if I was an adult in 1982, the political climate would probably ensure that those were the first things that would come to mind.

Or not even an adult I should say, just anyone who's aware like you were at 12!

the last line on that verse is different on Combat Rock isn't it? Isn't it ... we have redemption?

I actually grabbed that verse from the Combat Rock version, but the last lines are also the same on the Fort Bragg version.

Completely forgot this, but John Mellencamp (who I actually like) hated the Clash, and I found that out because he singled out "Know Your Rights" in an old JAM magazine interview.

JAM: The Clash bugged you?

Mellencamp: For some reason, that band really pissed me off. I remember at the time they were writing songs like they had some sort of pulse on the people of England. That was total bullshit. Those guys had maybe one successful album and they were all the rage. Their message was basically this: "Know your rights, no one is allowed to take your life." Well thanks for the newsflash boys that no one can kill me. I don’t know what streets they walked on, but if you got stopped by a cop in Indianapolis, and you’re being hassled, you have no rights.

I actually like Mellencamp when he gets interviewed on TV by someone like Letterman, but I'm sorry to say he usually sounds thick-headed when I read him in print.

So John Cougar only listened to, what, the first line of the song?

Fun fact: John Cougar and the Clash opened for the Who at different points on the Who's 1982 tour. And at different points on that tour, both Cougar and the Clash got booed off after 30 minutes.

(Eddie Money and the Clash opened the Pontiac, MI date of that tour. Money spent most of his set complaining about going on before the Clash, since he'd had more and bigger hits than them.)

I recall some article claiming that the Coug used to do Stooges covers back in the early years.

XP Yeah, and the "Should I Stay..." video was shot at the notorious Shea Stadium show, which is why they looked so pissed leaving the stage in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMaE6toi4mk

My brother saw the Clash opening for the Who here in Toronto.

I saw The Clash with The Who at the Los Angeles Coliseum. T-Bone Burnett (with Mick Ronson) was the first opener.

Btw The B-52’s also opened for The Who on that ‘82 tour and also were booed off stage. In their case it took about 20 minutes iirc.

Why would anyone think having the B's open for The Who would even work, let alone be a good idea?

JiC, I have that Gary Clail CD and had completely forgotten I own it. I liked it, time for the first relisten in 20+ years.

The last straw for the fans was when Fred Schneider did a solo rendition of "Love, Reign O'er Me".

The B-52’s / Who fiasco was the first rock concert I ever attended (Orlando, FL). Joan Jett & the Blackhearts were also on the bill. I came away from it liking the B-52’s even more because I picked up on the fun element of their presentation even while they were being pelted with beer cups. Would’ve liked to have seen The Clash at that point though! I think that was perhaps the last time that promoters were naive about the differences between classic rock and new wave, and about the way the various subgenres of rock didn’t necessarily mix well.

Pete Townshend asked the B-52s to open, as he did the Clash; he was a fan. But him being a fan obviously doesn’t mean shit to an audience fearful of the new and/or unfamiliar (when Pete asked Toots and the Maytals to open their 1975 US tour, it was a similar situation).

The Clash ran into this themselves when they had Kurtis Blow, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, and other hip-hop acts open some dates at their Bond’s stand in 1981; Strummer was pissed, and iirc gave the audience shit for their narrow-mindedness.

Also Prince was booed off stage opening for The Rolling Stones in ‘81. Funny how 1981-1982 was a big time for that kind of stuff.

90s version was Sonic Youth opening for Neil Young.

This was posted elsewhere, but also Terence Trent D'Arby when he opened for Springsteen (I think at a charity concert in 1992?) and Springsteen chastised the audience for it.

What could a headliner do to prevent or minimize this kind of reaction? Introduce the opening act as "my very special guests", join them for a song, etc?

Joining them in song is probably the only practical way, yes.

My friend Josefa beat me to the punch.

Maybe this happened to David Johansen too, can’t quite remember.

Think he was opening for The Who too! Maybe it was already mentioned a little bit upthread.

But in those days the headliner was not supposed to show their face until they hit the stage for their own pwrformance. It was part of the mystery of rock. You had to keep the crowd wondering if you were gonna show up at all.

Maybe even between The Clash and The Who.

Our friends at stevehoffman seem to have a thread about this phenomenon as well.

Supposedly David Johansen too, he also opened for the Who at Shea in 1982. According to some who were there, Johansen got booed, but he sang like only two songs, said "Love you New York, enjoy the Who. Good night!!" and got the hell out of there.

1981 I was so into the new music, and had a roommate who totally wasn't. I remember trying to persuade him of Prince's guitar chops, and all he could hear was "disco." He would have been one of the one booing and throwing cups.

That’s not a terrible practice tbh. Some stories about James Brown, how he was careful not to be seen until Star Time.
xp

It's kind of sad how those awesome bills were wasted on those hammerhead audiences. The Stones AND Dirty Mind/Controversy-era Prince! The Who AND The Clash AND The B-52's (w/Ricky!) AND Johansen!

90s version was Sonic Youth opening for Neil Young.

There's a video over on one of the Spiritualized threads of them opening for Neil at a summer shed in '96-7. One of the amazing things about it is it's shot FROM the stage, so you can see this tiny daytime audience slowly file in, perplexed by these pasty weirdos droning on and on.

Hear hear. The Who’s ‘82 Orlando performance is up on YouTube, but it would be way more interesting to see the B-52’s aborted performance preceding it. Or even Joan Jett’s, which was received fairly well, again iirc.

I've never seen a worse reaction to an opener than general impatience and inattention, unless someone calling out "Lou!" between songs by the Feelies counts.
A friend went to see Sonic Youth open for Neil, he said the boomers were as perplexed by Crazy Horse as they were by SY.

'00s version: Sleater-Kinney opening for Pearl Jam in 2003. "Who are the dykes?" a guy in front of me said to his bro.

90s version was Sonic Youth opening for Neil Young.

I’ve told this story in a few threads, but when I saw SY opening for Neil, the crowd was maybe 60-40 pro-SY. I was super into SY’s set, and an older dude next to me said, “You LIKE this shit?!” I said, “Yeah! It’s just like Crazy Horse, but faster!” He listened for a bit and said, “Hey, you’re right!”

My friend told me a lot of the audience at his show seemed to be expecting "Heart of Gold".

I saw SY open for Neil Young and didn't notice any pushback at all. In fact, the spinning hippies and bikers seemed to be equally into it, though maybe more the more the former. I *think* there were some stories of Living Colour getting booed opening for the Stones.

Famously, Skynyrd supposedly gave the Who a run for its money when they opened for them in 1973.

I *think* I saw S-K open for Pearl Jam once, and the crowd loved them. I did see PJ play one of those Vote for Change shows in Grand Rapids, MI. The same night I think the Dixie Chicks were playing nearby, for the same reason, and when Vedder mentioned them there were lots of boos. But this was peak Dixie Chicks hate time, of course. I recall Vedder then lectured the crowd for being a bunch of assholes for booing a band that courageous that was backing the same cause they were there for that night.

xpost That's absolutely accurate. The crowd was maybe one third younger and hipper (it was SY and Social Distortion opening), 1/3 rough and tumble Neil Young lifers, and 1/3 yuppies who only like "Harvest."

i did see Kim Salmon (then ex-Scientists) opening for U2 at a Sydney stadium gig in 1993 or so - there was discontent and booing for sure but the crowd was sparse enough that it didn’t feel too intense. as it happens Mick Jones was also on that bill (with the merely okay BAD II).

locally this show had echoes of a notorious gig in the mid-80s where the Scientists supported pub rockers The Angels and were subjected to a torrent of abuse and bottles from the crowd - but at least the U2 supports would have been well-paid

i saw crazy horse a few years ago and the Drones supported - wasn’t sure how they were gonna go down but they really smashed it, won some fans i think. Of course this was one of those crazy horse shows where a bunch of people are pissed cos they were somehow expecting Harvest.

Xp Heh snap on the Harvest denied vibes

ha yeah there should be some kind of "old hippie disclaimer" for NY/CH tickets - THIS DOES NOT SOUND LIKE HARVEST

i saw lou reed’s metal machine trio once and those tickets had an excellent disclaimer like “CONCERT WILL NOT FEATURE SONGS”

(it was SY and Social Distortion opening)

Ha, that reminds me that, at the show I saw, some high-school-age kids left after Social Distortion’s set and didn’t return for Neil. I assume/hope they have been regretting that deeply over the last 30 years.

Thread reminded me of the only time i saw this happen: a truly dismal & cursed pairing of Ima Robot opening for Hoobastank at an early 00s college show. To their credit Ima Robot played their entire set despite constant loud booing and thousands of kids whipping baseball caps at them. I remember the singer being ankle-deep in hats onstage by the end. A low point for all involved.

I don't remember Living Colour being booed opening for the Stones but it was 30 years ago. I do recall great indifference and even though I personally loved Vivid I thought the band was not good - they seemed lost on the huge stage, the giant sound system did Vernon Reid's guitar no favors, and there was like zero crowd energy to feed off of.

I came for the Combat Rock talk, but since we're all sharing uncouth crowds for openers stories, I remember Alex Chilton getting booed offstage while opening for the Counting Crows at a mid-90s show, which actually turned out really cool because we had no interest in seeing the Counting Crows so we went out to the bar in the lobby for their set and Alex was sitting there drinking alone so we went up and apologized for our stupid city and ended up having a nice little conversation with him.

So THAT’s how to get on Alex Chilton’s good side!

when talking & trading concert stories with normal people who arent big music fans, who maybe go to one arena concert every year or 2 by their favorite super-famous rock performer, Ive definitely noticed a longstanding generally accepted idea among them that "opening bands always suck and are here to waste our time" - like, the concept of 'opening band' by definition only includes bands that are awful, and they go in w/the mindset that the opening band is something to be actively avoided and disdained, a trick or prank being pulled on the audience. the unspoken idea always seems to be that the headliner wants to be onstage as early as possible, and would be there giving the crowd an extra hour of hits if it wasnt for the uncouth no-ready-for-prime-time opening band who have rudely invaded the stage and delayed the start of the show. ppl with this attitude love to make a big deal out of either missing the opening band entirely or pointing out how much less famous they are than the headliner, which idk, maybe makes them feel more like music fans rather than people who only listen to 2 or 3 bands. always been so strange to me that this is such a common idea among the avg big concertgoer.

i get that not every band is for everyone and the audience for huge concerts is mostly people who just dont really like a lot of music except for their few favorite acts. but still especially with the high price of big concert tickets i'm always surprised that people will go out of their way to get less than what they paid for by missing or pointedly ignoring opening bands.

I remember seeing PJ Harvey opening for U2 at her critical and commercial peak, and virtually no one was there. Puts things in perspective, I guess. Then again, it's possible she was still playing to more people than she would normally play to, empty as the place appeared.

Wait Josh, was that the PJ/U2 show at the Palace of Auburn Hills? I saw you mentioned that Grand Rapids PJ show earlier. Just wondering because I was at that Palace show and regretfully missed PJ's set and the first song of U2's because traffic was so bad on I75 north that people were just abandoning their unparked cars in the parking lot drives and running in to the show because we were all so late and couldn't get through to open parking spots deeper in the lot. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Palace was half empty for PJ's set that night.

heh I went to the Elevation tour's opening gig in Ft. Lauderdale because I wanted to see PJ Harvey. Instead, thanks to illness, we got the Corrs.

that was the gig where Bono toppled off the stage

So, on balance, a worthwhile show.

well, the Corrs.

I remember seeing PJ Harvey opening for U2 at her critical and commercial peak, and virtually no one was there. Puts things in perspective, I guess. Then again, it's possible she was still playing to more people than she would normally play to, empty as the place appeared.

Hah, I remember that show in Chicago, I had a friend who had tickets, but at the time $75 seemed enormously expensive so I passed. I actually like that tour a lot, but I was definitely more interested in seeing PJ Harvey. However, an arena is a terrible place to see someone who isn't U2 (who always sounded custom fit for arenas and stadiums). Last time I saw Spoon was in support of Arcade Fire's first arena tour - they were good, but it definitely wasn't a great experience compared to their usual shows in much smaller venues.

xxxpost No, this was the Chicago U2 show in 2002 or so. I was only in Grand Rapids to see that one Pearl Jam show. Road trip!

Say, this spaghetti western opening to "One More Time" from Clash Mk 2 is pretty cool how it works its way towards reggae. I can really see what Strummer was hoping for post-Mick, even if it all fell apart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ysRRP2JYKM

XP Yeah, and the "Should I Stay..." video was shot at the notorious Shea Stadium show, which is why they looked so pissed leaving the stage in it.

Weird, I didn't realize there was a video with the studio version. This is the only "Should I Stay" video I've seen, and some boos can be heard at the very end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGIFublvDes

It's basically the same footage, just edited a little differently and with the live audio.

I actually grabbed that verse from the Combat Rock version, but the last lines are also the same on the Fort Bragg version.

Completely forgot this, but John Mellencamp (who I actually like) hated the Clash, and I found that out because he singled out "Know Your Rights" in an old JAM magazine interview.

JAM: The Clash bugged you?

Mellencamp: For some reason, that band really pissed me off. I remember at the time they were writing songs like they had some sort of pulse on the people of England. That was total bullshit. Those guys had maybe one successful album and they were all the rage. Their message was basically this: "Know your rights, no one is allowed to take your life." Well thanks for the newsflash boys that no one can kill me. I don’t know what streets they walked on, but if you got stopped by a cop in Indianapolis, and you’re being hassled, you have no rights.

I actually like Mellencamp when he gets interviewed on TV by someone like Letterman, but I'm sorry to say he usually sounds thick-headed when I read him in print.

― birdistheword, Thursday, August 12, 2021 4:18 PM (two weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

I keep thinking about this Mellencamp quote every time I listen to Know Your Rights and it is alternatively enraging and hilarious. 1) Like, did you even listen to the song, and 2) Oooo the mean streets of Indianapolis, John.

This is the only Clash album I still listen to

xp: I'm sure the cops in Indianapolis are absolute dicks.

Of course. Authority always wins.

I imagine Mellencamp's lawbreaking to be along the lines of smashing up parking meters like Paul Newman in Cool Hand Luke

he seems like a gun owner

Car Jamming has been rolling around in my head for about six months and I still love it.

hey fellas

I used to work in a record store in Boulder, Colorado back in the 80s. Allen Ginsberg used to spend time at the Naropa Institute in town. He'd come in every once in a while asking if we stocked his album "First Blues." We did--in fact, we had had the same copy for years.

LMAO. You should've asked him to sign it, though it would be pretty sad if he kept coming back and saw it was the same signed copy over and over again.

I wish they'd do a 40th anniversary deluxe edition, nothing ridiculous like a box set but a double CD set that would have the "original" Fort Bragg double LP on the bonus CD. (I guess a vinyl edition would have to be a triple disc box set.) I doubt it'll happen given Mick's comments in the past.

Apparently something related to Combat Rock is planned for release this year. It's NOT Rat Patrol (which would've been the most sensible and most desirable release) so don't get your hopes up, but there's something in the pipeline.

On the other hand, quite a few Clash-related projects have fallen through over the years, so while this will likely happen, I can't say I 100% believe it will.

What else could be left to release that isn't the Rat Patrol versions or the already available tracks from Sound System Extras?

I mean, there's the Rankin Roger vocal takes on Red Angel Dragnet and Casbah. New York Mix of Overpowered by Funk. Tymon's Once You Know. But these are inconsequential next to the Rat Patrol versions.

Live stuff and remixes?

I don't know, but it's crazy what's been collecting dust in their archives. I know Mick Jones still has unreleased songs he wrote and recorded with Joe Strummer from BAD's No. 10, Upping St. NONE of that's been bootlegged and he's been trying to put it all out for years, once in 2011 as a remastered deluxe edition for the album (which even got some press even though it never happened) and again before the pandemic hit.

I get that Mick doesn't want to issue a "rat patrol" facsimile (like the Pistols' "God Save" LP) but those 'versions' really should come out as some extra disc like the London Calling 'vanilla sessions' did.

The reason Mick doesn't want to release any Rat Patrol tracks/mixes is because he doesn't think it's right to put them out without Joe's approval. Mick already nixed a planned 2CD Combat Rock/Rat Patrol in the early '00s.

Not to take anything away from Mick because I think his reasoning is classy and deserves respect, but most of Rat Patrol is already spread out on Sound System.

What it doesn't have are six tracks: none of them are missing songs, just Rat Patrol versions of "Know Your Rights" (longer), "Red Angel Dragnet" (longer), "Inoculated City" (longer), "Atom Tan," "Rock the Casbah," and "Should I Stay or Should I Go" (more cod-Spanish backing vocals by Joe and Joe Ely).

So most of it *is* out there, and the Combat Rock versions of those remaining cuts (especially the singles) are arguably better. IIRC Mick definitely said so, and what exists as Rat Patrol (either in the vaults or on bootleg) was never pitched as a finished master anyway, mix or editing-wise.

("out there" meaning officially released)

That's what I'm saying, although a Combat Rock "deluxe" without the already released "rat patrol" tracks would seem to be a bad idea, yes.

Details coming later this week!

But a source who's supposedly a friend of Mick's says it's a two CD set, and not live stuff. Also a separate single of interest not included in the set is to also be released.

Details seem to be trickling out.

The second CD is entitled “The People’s Hall” (where the album was originally hatched), though not all tracks were recorded there. There’s also a piece about the history of Frestonia (the London neighborhood where the People's Hall was located) in the booklet.

not live stuff

Good. The ‘82 live recordings with Terry Chimes are awful. He was hapless when attempting any post-debut songs. An official release of the Us Festival set might be nice — Pete Howard was as adept a replacement for Topper as they could have hoped for — but that can be easily found on youtube.

Apparently, Tory Crimes has found fulfillment as a chiropractor.

The debut is a classic in spite of the fact the drums are pretty damn dull

Announcement's probably later today - here's the vinyl edition:

Originally released in May 1982, ‘Combat Rock’ is the final Clash album by Joe Strummer, Mick Jones, Paul Simonon and Topper Headon. It contains two of the band's best-known songs, 'Should I Stay Or Should I Go' and 'Rock The Casbah'. Now reissued in a special edition 180g 3LP, with 12 extra tracks! Returning to London after 17 shows at Bond's Casino in New York in 1981, the band rehearsed and recorded at The People's Hall in London and from there embarked on a tour of East and Southeast Asia, as evidenced by the cover image. The songs on ‘The People’s Hall’ cover the period from what was their last single Radio Clash to the release of Combat Rock, including unreleased and rare versions. It also includes rare images of Pennie Smith and an essay on Tom Vague’s Frestonia story.

http://www.clashcity.com/boards/download/file.php?id=8978

One of the extra tracks is likely the alternate version of "Rock the Casbah" with Ranking Roger of the (English) Beat.

We had that poster in the basement of the record store I worked at in college. Man, does that bring back memories.

I think it's still folded up in my copy of the album!

Tracklist leaked:

http://www.clashcity.com/boards/download/file.php?id=8982&t=1

(A little disappointing they'd leave one vinyl side without any real content. I guess that means the CD edition doesn't fill out the second disc either.)

Long Time Jerk was the B side to . . . Rock the Casbah?

Forgot, there was going to be a separate standalone release like a single, so that's where the Ranking Roger version of "Rock the Casbah" will probably go. (One of their social media accounts referenced it yesterday.)

Futura 2000!

Some titles I've not seen before.. "He who dares.." ?

Actually that single is probably going to be a Ranking Roger single - both sides uploaded to YouTube!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69zglj8jYNA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6LwhvZJtR4

And they're up for sale.

Only two unreleased songs; I don't think I need this.

I actually think the stronger vocal on the Combat Rock version of "Know Your Rights" make it preferable to the longer version from Rat Patrol (if that's what they're using here in the bonuses).

The Ranking Roger single is cool, but otherwise yeah, pretty disappointing if you already have Sound System. Obviously there are the bootlegs but what hasn't been officially released is generally taken from crummy sources.

Its cool the Ranking Roger stuff is standalone - thats what I'm mainly interested in re:this set. Honestly surprised theyre doing that rather than including it as a sweetener in a deluxe package

Some more info, what's here includes a version of ‘Know Your Rights’ "recorded at The People’s Hall on The Rolling Stones‘ Mobile Studio, previously unreleased instrumental ‘He Who Dares Or Is Tired’, ‘Futura 2000’ (an unreleased original mix of ‘The Escapades of Futura 2000’)"

I've never owned the album on vinyl, happy to have this version.

Apparently Sony has approached the surviving members of the Clash many times about various ideas for reissues, but they rejected nearly every single one. For example, the band seriously considered a Sandinista! deluxe set, but they ultimately passed on the idea because they didn't think there was enough worthy bonus material. Sony apparently wanted a big box set for Combat Rock or at minimum a deluxe set with Rat Patrol, but they could only get the band to do this smaller issue. As mentioned before, the band really doesn't want to put out Rat Patrol now that Joe is no longer around to give his approval. Mick wasn't kidding when he said many times that he wanted Sound System to be the final word, so we're lucky to get this. I guess it's more of a release for people who don't own this stuff already or who don't want to get something as large and expensive as Sound System (or simply want this stuff on vinyl).

Is Sound System even still in print? A lot of those pricey/exhaustive 'Complete Albums' sets from the '10s have gone OOP.

I didn't realize what a good package Sound System was until like 5 years too late

If I ever see one used in the wild, I'll probably pick it up and dump all regular Clash CDs that I've had since HS

Is Sound System even still in print? A lot of those pricey/exhaustive 'Complete Albums' sets from the '10s have gone OOP.

It looks like it's still available brand-new. Merchbar and Amazon are two that pop up when I did a quick search - goes for like $150-$250 depending on the merchant.

It is a GREAT looking package, but if you already have the albums on CD (like I did), it may seem pretty redundant and less convenient since each CD actually mirrors the original vinyl (so London Calling is spread out over two discs instead of one and Sandinista! on three instead of two). I know it's remastered, but I thought it was a little bright for my tastes and kind of preferred the sound of the old CD's I already had on hand. DVD's awesome though.

(not saying you should buy from Amazon, but if they have it in-stock, surely other people will)

I like that it restores the UK tracklisting of the OG s/t

For sure. The UK version and London Calling may very well be my two favorite records of the '70s.

I grew up on the US track listing and still think it's better, but I own this box and that has the UK version in it.

Have the Clash ever had a proper Past Masters-style compilation of all the previously released singles, b-sides etc? I had the impression that whatever was out there (like Black Market Clash) was incomplete.

I think the box is p comprehensive except a few dub mixes and alternates

Have the Clash ever had a proper Past Masters-style compilation of all the previously released singles, b-sides etc? I had the impression that whatever was out there (like Black Market Clash) was incomplete.

They did that giant 19CD box of all their singles in 2006. The label sent me one; I kinda wish I still had it.

Have the Clash ever had a proper Past Masters-style compilation of all the previously released singles, b-sides etc? I had the impression that whatever was out there (like Black Market Clash) was incomplete.

The Singles which should have scooped up the rest (for those who already have Super Black Market Clash), but I think it's missing a few things. "This Is England" would have been damn welcome and would have saved one the troubled of getting Cut the Crap.

I watched The Rise And Fall Of The Clash documentary the other day, detailing the decline years in more detail than I'd realised anyone (including Jones, the CTC line-up) had ever gone on record to describe. Bleakly fascinating. Understood why they'd want to airbrush away the utter farce that was Mk II more than previously

It felt at the time, and still seems now, as though Strummer had a nervous breakdown.

the utter farce that was Mk II

Except their post-Mick/pre-Crap shows were largely received positively. iirc, there was eager anticipation, based on the live shows, for the new studio record. After the disappointment of Crap it was suddenly, “Why’d they carry on without Mick?”

Same thing happened with the post-Moon Who: the ‘79-‘80 tours were almost universally praised, and built up expectations for a dynamite studio album. After two disappointing records, the retrospective view then became, “They shouldn’t have continued without Moon.” But no one was saying that during the tours.

I saw the pre-Crap show at Red Rocks. It was good, but I can't honestly say it was the Clash.

I really like the stuff Strummer co-wrote on BAD'S No. 10, Upping St.. Given that he also produced that album, I think they could have gone on to make more vital music, but I imagine there was just too much stress on that band for lots of reasons, and simply going on hiatus then re-grouping isn't that easy.

Yeah, I remember the sense of optimism around that album and the Strummer/Jones rapprochement that preceded it, but I think Strummer was pretty much done being "Joe Strummer of the Clash" at that point.

Joe actually asked Mick to rejoin the Clash after Crap flopped, but Mick was happy in B.A.D., and he, Joe, and Paul got on far better as friends (they’re all in the “Medicine Show” video) than as bandmates.

Yeah, they're the cops, right?

Yeah, and they all shoot at each other which…I suppose is one way of working through their issues.

Everything I've seen on video documenting Mk II just looks completely bizarre, especially their image and Joe's behaviour and presence in general

Regarding the 19 cd singles set.

There is a promo version which has all the tracks on 4 CDs. I have one, it's certainly handy and it wasn't that expensive (when I got it, anyway)

oh for a big fat 12" of those ranking roger versions.

That acetate of the single LP version of Fort Bragg is now on YouTube as one continuous listen. (You can still get the original streams from the old auction link, but this may be more convenient for some who want to listen to it.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0dqKsYRRIc

Again, edited down from Mick's original proposed double LP mix (i.e. his mixes as Glyn Johns wasn't involved yet), it was more or less done behind his back, though the result feels more like a balanced compromise than Combat Rock. Not necessarily "better" than Combat Rock, but at least this version kept Mick's original mixes.

I actually think the changes made to "Know Your Rights" and "Should I Stay or Should I Go" under Johns's direction improved both of those tracks. I kind of miss the opening percussion intro on "Rock the Casbah" - it would've been a nice segue on the album - but otherwise it's difficult to distinguish Johns's version from Jones's. For all I know, they're actually the same mixes, just with the intro cut out of Johns's. Bob Clearmountain's 12" mix (also on Sound System) is far more different.

Also it sounds like Johns took out a lot of Jones's wonderfully spacey guitar overdubs on "Inoculated City," especially during an extended sound collage break that was severely truncated (to the track's detriment IMHO - that was most of its charm).

Apparently there were two bonus tracks on this new reissue that Mick wanted to include but couldn't. Here's what was reported on the Clash message board by someone who knows Mick:

The record company wouldn't pay to clear the samples for the extended Inoculated City. Mick would have included the "final" version from Electric Lady, dated February 2nd, a couple of days after the Rat Patrol acetates were cut.

They didn't include Cool Confusion because Mick doesn't like the recorded version. There's an earlier more rhythm-based demo, more like he wished they'd done it, but they couldn't locate the one with Joe's vocals. Guessing maybe the instrumental is what's on Hell W10?

my ps here to a thread that truly covers it all is weak, buuut...

ha i only just ripped that acetate versh of rat patrol, that's interesting enough. entertaining. seems to me that the garage-y sound in that mix of _should i stay..._ is what i had understood they wanted that song to be, even with cod spanish or whatever. also finally got to hear the 2000 flushes commersh again that was on my 1983 cassette lol

also interested me to read all this ^^^^ discussion on an album i didn't care too much about, it turns out so rich in v worthwhile content. imo.

Some days it Combat Rock my favorite Clash record. And having its evil expansive twin in Rat Patrol makes it even better.

Ghetto Defendant rules so hard. Allen Ginsberg could have had a second career doing doomy spoken word on rock and roll records.

I get why someone wouldn't like it, but it makes me laugh. The layering of Strummer's vocals and Ginsberg's spoken word works for me.

do the worm on acropolis