Beatles biographies?

macca's 'many years from now', ace ace ace.
paul in full-on honesty mode, totally different from his pain-in-the-arse-at-times persona in 'anthology' tv show. he talks about everything from taking smack to w*nking competetions with lennon.

dom delillo's 'longest cocktail party' was re-released lately to much hoo-ha. not read it, meant to be ace. it's all about the 67-69 era.

then there's michael braun's eye-witness '64 tour report
'love me do: the beatles progress' which purported to show them
'as they really are' at the time, seemed pretty revelatory in it's day
(" do the boys really swear this much" asked NME) but seems tame now.
good though, as it's a one-of-a-kind job, and they never did it again because lennon said he made them look 'like a bunch of bastards because we are...'

the Q official beatles mag (4.99 from q online) is about as good as a
starter for the full story as you could get. it really is fantastic.
every major bit of their career in detail, loads of opinion, loads of
piss-take, eyewitness accounts, reviews etc. much of it culled from peak-era of Q writing (yes there was such a thing).

their own anthology book should be out soon in pprback too.

mark lewishon's books are a bit too technical and dry i find, though they get lots of critical appraisal.
also it goes without saying that the latest, up-to-date version
of ian macdonald's 'revolution ion the head' is the bible, but there's
obviously no 'story'.

Should I read Norman or Spitz?

If Norman hates McCartney as stated upthread then not only do I hate him but also he should be slowly roasted and killed while "Simply Having a Wonderful Xmas Time" blares in his ears

also curious about the new mccartney bio Fab.

Paperback Writer seconded.

I recently finished Peter Doggett's You Never Give Me Your Money, which covers approximately Abbey Road through to the present day. It's simultaneously fascinating and depressing, and there are a number of revelations (the one that stayed with me most was that the knife attack on Harrison was far worse than it was made out to be at the time). About two-thirds of the way through you realize, wait, this band he's writing about, where each member almost went bankrupt, who got cheated out of millions and millions of dollars...is the BEATLES.

must read that! You Never Give Me Your Money seems to be the most critically acclaimed fabs book in a very long time. no end of scholars repping for it all over the place.
can't wait for Lewisohn's books though, the first of which is due out this Chrtistmas. 3 volumes over the next decade! (although supposedly Lewishon was only "up to Hamburg" about 6 months ago.) seems Philip Norman's recent Lennon book is another winner, perhaps the most even-handed *decent* Lennon book written since his death.

i can only apologise for my '03 posts being written like i was EE Cummings.

by the way we had a few chats about biogs (and indeed every thing else Fabs related under teh sun) on this thread
I have had it up to here waiting for the Beatles catalogue to be remastered

'The Love You Make' 1983. By Peter Brown and Steve Gaines. The authors were there as it happened, and aren't afraid to paint an honest picture of the "boys in the band".

I love how fucking trashy this book was. Just loved it. Gaines wrote an equally OTT Beach Boys bio.

so what are these new lewisohn books?

As mentioned upthread "Many Years From Now" is A+++.

Love Richie Unterberger's "Unreleased Beatles".

Bought Christopher Sandford's "McCartney" cheap and soon figured out why it was a bargain. Crappy.

xp to tylerw
a 3 volume set coming out over the next decade covering the whole story in insanely exhaustive detail. volume 1 pushed back and back, but recently there has been some activity:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0316729604?ie=UTF8&tag=thebeabib-21 terrible title!

ADVANCE INFORMATION The Beatles – The Complete Story

Key Editorial Points: UK Publication Date: 01 September 2011 Edition: Hardback

First part of the definitive three-volume biography of the Beatles

ISBN-13: 978 0 316 72960 4

UK Pub Price: £25.00

Classification: Biography

The Book: Format && Size: R (234 x 153 mm)

Illustrations: 16pp of b/w photos Extent: 800 pp

The Beatles are the cultural phenomeon of our time, arguably – unarguably? – of all time.

In addition to their outstanding and clearly timeless music, their influence still pulses around the world in unaccountable aspects of everyday life. FAB has one aim: to be the all-tile standard word on the Beatles. Comprehensive, objective, unexpurgated and the product of definitively deep-level research, it will set down the whole story, easily, in three volumes.

Volume One tells the early part of the story in two parts: 'Passion' from 1940-62 discusses the beginnings of the band, and 'Explosion' focuses on 1963, the year when everything changed.

Mark Lewisohn is the author six previous Beatles books and has been described by the Independent as the band's 'Emeritus Professor'.

Backlist:

The Beatles Live!, The Beatles: 25 Years in the Life, The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions, John Lennon: In My Life, The Complete Beatles Chronicle, The Beatles' London

Reviews: 'Mark Lewisohn stands supreme. His dedication in getting all the true facts, coupled with a style of writing that is most readable, leaves him with no rival. Time and again he has proven that he knows far more about what we did than any of us' George Martin.
-

FAB the working title one presumes.

mark lewishon's books are a bit too technical and dry i find, though they get lots of critical appraisal.

Me too...the only one of his I've enjoyed reading is The Beatles London (one of my favourite Beatles books), and it's notable that it has two co-authors.

so...Spitz

dunno, that bio kind of depressed me -- not that i need a beatles bio to be all la-di-dah aren't the beatles great, but doesn't everyone in it come across as petty jerks?

I'm about 20 pages into You Never Give Me Your Money, and it's so so good so far. Amazing descriptions of Paul in 67, swanning around London charming everyone he meets, followed by him leaving a typewritten note for John saying "You and your Jap tart think you're hot shit" which he left for him "for a lark." Just fucking crazy.

to be fair they did think they were hot shit

(just kidding, that's terrible. is it TRUE, though?)

(you should see what Lennon said about Linda.,)

i am going to read this book.

You should, its so good.

Maybe there's another thread already discussing Mark Lewisohn's Tune In? If so, please point me toward it.

Otherwise just want to say that I am ENTHRALLED. It's as detailed as his other books, except far less technical in nature. I can say now that (aside from a potential future corrected/annotated edition) this will be the ultimate Beatles biography and will stand for all time.

It's 900+ pages and covers the story through 1962. Devouring this and more excited for the next entry than I am about another George RR Martin tome. Yeah yeah yeah!

I thought I'd be bored by this, but I'll be damned if it isn't unbelievably engaging. I'm up to (um, spoiler alert?) the part where they get back to Liverpool after their first Hamburg stint, and how everyone is just completely and utterly stunned at how powerful they'd gotten (especially since they weren't thought much of, if they were noticed at all, before they left for Hamburg).

I put it on hold at the public library months ago. Imagine my surprise when I received an email the week it came out. "Your book has arrived..."

Now scrambling to put a dent in it before the due date. Thing is MASSIVE.

Yeah, but it flies by.

The level of detail is staggering, made especially impressive for how readable and well-organized it all is. At no point so far have I thought "Eh, that part isn't necessary."

And seeing as how he'll presumably have exponentially more documentation to work with for the future volumes, I can easily see 900+ pages covering, for instance, just 1963-1965.

damn you guys, i've been trying to convince myself i do not need to read another huge beatles biography.

It's actually a little tough going at the very beginning, with Lewisohn going all the way back to great-great-grandparents. But whereas standard Beatles bios would, for instance, sum up Ringo's upbringing with "he grew up in the slums of Liverpool, and he was sick a lot," this one really digs into just how bleak his living conditions were, how many times he was in the hospital, the frustration at his lack of schooling...and it all just adds another fascinating layer to a story we think we already have a handle on. You really start to think, wait, how is it going to be physically possible for this kid to even lift a drumstick, much less play with a band?

I have the two volume "director's cut" of this and can't wait to dig in!

It's impossible to fathom that any detail was left out, let alone 800 motherfucking pages of details.

I believe the expanded edition traces each of the Beatles' family lineage to single-celled amoeba.

ha ha, yes, the expanded edition is 1,728 pages....

This'll probably be my first-ever ebook purchase when I finally cave and buy a reader sometime around mid-decade

nate you're a genius, my library has it too -- am going to put in a hold request for it :D :D

Does the director's cut include an in-depth history of each individual plank of the stage John & Paul first performed together on? Cause if not, gtfo.

i think that one appendix with biographies of everyone who attended their shea stadium concert is what pushed it over 1,700 pages

Man I had no idea there was an expanded edition. Fiddlesticks.

Also want to clarify that it doesn't really begin with great-great grandparents. That info is certainly in there in depth, but Lewisohn wisely opens with the first time Lennon and McCartney played music together. Only then does he reel back in time. I think it's a very graceful approach and I have not been bored.

I got it on the UK site, don't think it's been released in the US (that doesn't help you, I know--sorry, Nate :(

If I have any complaints, it's the number of notes which require 2 bookmarks and constant referencing of the appendix. A bit of a hassle given the size of the book. Wish these notes were more often on the bottom of the page or in sidebars, but I suppose that would be less scholarly.

I remember one of the beautiful things about the Ian MacDonald book was his use of footnotes.

Anybody know exactly why Mccartney and the rest (of the living) refuse to cooperate with Lewisohn on this project?

For a moment I even though perhaps the BBC Sessions 2 disc was released the same day in order to steal thunder from this book but when I checked again they were released a few weeks apart.

I don't think they refused did they? I think he wanted to try to remain independent but ran things buy them now and then when I needed a specific question answered.

Josh reveals himself to be Mark Lewisohn!

yes, iirc lewisohn has said he deliberately did not seek anyone's approval.

i've picked this up several times in the store and it's very very very tempting -- but, erg, not yet.

From Amazon:

Q. You have a long professional association with the Beatles, and some of them individually. Are they involved in Tune In and is this book authorized?

A. No. I received the odd tiny bit of help which I specifically asked for and they didn't have to give – but substantially no, they're not involved. That's fine, because it's what I expected and what I wanted. This has to be an independent and impartial book. But are the all main players appearing and speaking at the book's core? Yes, constantly. Paul McCartney decided not to talk to me for this particular project, and I completely respect and understand his reasons – but I've interviewed him maybe fifteen times in the past and I've also sourced other quotes of great strength and immediacy for all the players.

One of many reasons the Beatles' achievements and reputation sustain with such integrity is because they were true. They stood for truth, projected truth and lived truthfully as best they could. It's entirely right that their history is written as true as possible, with no embroidery, nothing faked or glossed, nothing stupidly interpreted, everything transparent, everything attributed. Of course my attachment to this subject is deep and lifelong, but I'm not the least bit interested in writing a book simply to say how great they were. They certainly don't need that, and I certainly wouldn't do it. It'd be a waste of my time. My passion is for learning everything I can about this subject, understanding it, and doing my best to set it down clearly so it can be understood relative to what happened.

the fact that Neil Aspinall talked to ML is the real scoop i'd say as he talked to hardly anyone for decades. i read an interview where ML said that many people said they would only talk to him on the record once they'd "cleared it with Neil first". your 5th Beatle right there.

i bet Macca hates it, just the same as he did every other Fabs book since time began. i was well impressed that ML was prepared to 'burn his bridges' so to speak, especially as he did Macca's sleevenotes a few times etc.

i saw bob spitz speak at an event a while back and he said mccartney liked his book. wouldn't really blame him for hating most of the other books, espec. philip norman's (very overrated) bio.

Philip Norman's book is a drag, a well-known drag. Didn't he start that business that McCartney was a righty but only played lefty because he misinterpreted something he read?

oh i don't blame Macca for hating a lot of the books either.

Bought an ebook of the Lewisohn based on except about Julia Lennon but haven't made much of dent in it yet even though it seems good, tons of detail. Last Beatle book I read was You Never Give Me Your Money, thanks to some recommendations here. Looked at the Bob Spitz book but it just didn't grab me, seemed liked it would just be Hunter Davies or Philip Norman retread with a few new facts but maybe that was too harsh.

Also want to clarify that it doesn't really begin with great-great grandparents. That info is certainly in there in depth, but Lewisohn wisely opens with the first time Lennon and McCartney played music together. Only then does he reel back in time. I think it's a very graceful approach and I have not been bored.

― Nate Carson, Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:16 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is true. I looked at that chapter as more of a prologue, but it's true, it sucks you in immediately (though the details about their family histories, while intermittently interesting, are still a bit sloggy).

Friend gave me the spitz book a few years ago. Its ok but shortchanged the last 5 years of the band imo. Also cheap shots at yoko.

interesting webchat with Mark Lewisohn on the WORD mag forum http://www.theafterword.co.uk/content/mark-lewisohn-afterword-webchat

I'm reading You Never Give Me Your Money rn, don't know if the guys are bigger assholes or idiots...actually I'm pretty sure assholes

I may give the ML book a try; after reading so many beatles books I never thought I'd need to read another one, sounds here though like it might be worn the read?

Definitely assholes, except for Ringo.

Just starting in with the Extended version of Tune In, wish me luck

Wow, didn't know about the Extended Version until now. Lewisohn says in the webchat linked upthread:

My book contracts called for 250,000 words (already a lot), and I wrote 780,000. My UK publisher (Little, Brown) read it and said they wanted to put out the entire thing. My US partner, Crown Archetype, remain undecided still, why is why it’s only out in Britain. Both publishers required the mainstream book for which I’d signed the contracts, so I had to set about creating it from the 780k version. I was aiming for 250k and got it down to 400k, which was pretty good going, and enough for both companies to accept the length and publish. The editing task was mine – I'd not have allowed it to be done by anyone else.
It was never my intention to create two different products, but that’s the way it worked out. If you have the mainstream edition, you’re not missing anything truly vital – I made sure it’s all in there. But the Extended Special Edition (ESE) has more layers, more levels, more context, more anecdotes, more Beatles.
Both editions achieve the goals I set for them, but the ESE is the full, fullest story, everything I wrote just as I wrote it.

there are a number of revelations (the one that stayed with me most was that the knife attack on Harrison was far worse than it was made out to be at the time)

I had no idea he had been stabbed FORTY times, I mean jesus f christ

Am a couple of chapters into the Lewisohn book now and am LOVING it.

I've read a few Beatles books over the years, but there is something about Lewisohn's voice that makes this book feel much closer to them, much more *interested* in them. Idk, I may be generalizing but I always felt a bit of authorial distance in other Beatles books, like the authors admired them but were sort of looking at them from a kind of remove. I don't remember picking up on a whole lot of fondness for them. But Lewisohn turns even the teenage Beatles into characters I find myself pulling for, even though I know how they end up. Even the way he tells their stories doesn't feel as hashed over as it has before. And I love the way he layers them on top of each other so you get this clear map in your head of where they are in relation to each other, both geographically and even emotionally etc. I'm definitely fangirling over this

And I love the way he layers them on top of each other so you get this clear map in your head of where they are in relation to each other, both geographically and even emotionally etc.

Yeah, otm. For me, the more I reflect on it, the key to the depth of understanding that Lewisohn brings is how he treats Liverpool as probably the most important element of the story. Every other Beatles bio left it at "eh, it was a seaport shithole," but Lewisohn, holy shit, you can smell the city. The standard notion of "How did they come out of Liverpool?" is replaced in history by "They could have only come out of Liverpool" in about three pages.

omg yes. so spot on

and the way he keeps slowly sprinkling in key music moments, whether instruments or songs, like I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for them to hear elvis

John & Paul's first meeting in the Lewisohn book is electrifying.

like I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for them to hear elvis

Totally. That's one of the most exciting things about this book (and what will no doubt be amplified in future installments): you have some idea of what's about to happen, but when it happens, it's incredibly thrilling, and fleshed out with more detail than you could've possibly imagined. And it's not just Elvis: their discoveries (spoiler alert?) of Motown ("What's this then? 'Tamla'? Detroit?") and Goffin-King, via the Shirelles ("Hey Paul, let's snap up every record that has 'Goffin-King' on it") are reported by Lewisohn in a way that really communicates the excitement they felt at hearing those records for the first time. And that's another great thing about this: the massive pre-rock 'n' roll context that Lewisohn necessarily sets up makes those music discoveries really jump. For the first time I got some sense of what it must have been like for John and Paul to hear "Money" or "Long Tall Sally" for the first time with little precedent for either.

Yeah that lengthy description of John speechless when he first hears Little Richard -- so great.

I'm genuinely moved by the little efforts various parental figures make towards their musical interest, especially given how well he's contextualized their financial situations ...that story of George's mum sitting up with him til the wee hours making cups of tea and giving him encouragement make me a little teary. And Ringo's stepfather carting that drumkit all the way from wherever it was on like four different trains. <3 <3 <3 Oh and that student giving John the harmonica for not one but TWO songs :)

Aw, all these little details make me wonder whether the full-length is the one to buy after all...?

does the full-length one really cost like 10 times more than the regular one? if I'm gonna read this, I want to do it right, but only once

Same. UK amazon shows the full-length at £120 as opposed to £15 (for the short one, which I've already got but not read). It was £60 there on release, gah.

And Ringo's stepfather carting that drumkit all the way from wherever it was on like four different trains

Oh man, that one really got to me. Poor little Richy was supposed to have died about four or five times, and they were gonna do anything they could to make him happy.

I know it's crazy to think how he could have ended up!

I enjoyed how much it revealed that George was always George - little use for formal education, sardonic wit, can't be bothered with church, obsessive about cars and guitars . . .

you guys are making me want to read this

the Bob Spitz book I got a few years ago for Xmas is gathering dust (deservedly so)

It's worth it just for the stuff about Neil Aspinall and Mona Best, frankly. But it really is worth it. I've read *everything* over the years, and this made it all feel very fresh.

Yeah. Also feel like he gives a lot more context re the John/Mimi/Julia arrangement, or at least a lot more than I realized.

Yes, that and the whole Fred Lennon situation. And "Twitchy."

All the "new" characters at the periphery are pretty interesting, and while Lewisohn obviously deserves a lot of credit for finding and interviewing them, you wonder why no one did before (particularly the drummer that couldn't stay on because he didn't want to quit his day job).

Also, wtf, no interviewer ever asked Lennon about Sutcliffe?

Pulled out the first Anthology set to listen to the other day -- I'd listened to it here and there but I never really was jazzed about it. The Lewisohn book has made all the difference to my enjoyment of it, because now I understand more of the context about when and how the early recordings came about, and where they occur in the book etc

so good

Has anyone read the long version yet?

It's back down to £74 on amazon uk, post-Xmas, and I've got to say I'm on the brink.

I'm reading the long version on kindle, really enjoyable.

Pulled out the first Anthology set to listen to the other day -- I'd listened to it here and there but I never really was jazzed about it. The Lewisohn book has made all the difference to my enjoyment of it, because now I understand more of the context about when and how the early recordings came about, and where they occur in the book etc

Agree 100%. All of a sudden those early performances felt more like looking through a keyhole at some historic event of enormous significance instead of early scraps.

If the long version comes out in the US, or one falls in my lap, I would gladly give this a second read.

Ultimately, my one criticism of Tune In is that in a great many spots, Lewisohn encounters a grey area and assumes/implies what must have happened. Of course he always cites it, but I can easily imagine future film/miniseries versions of this including some of his guesswork as canon. Then again, it is mythology so that's not the worst thing that could happen.

Also can well imagine that as this book is read, many interesting letters and emails will make it to Lewisohn and shed light on the grey areas. Glad I read this at the library because a corrected edition will eventually be the standard text. Can't really believe there will be any need for another history of the Beatles after this one is complete. They'll just keep updating it like the encyclopedia (RIP).

I agree about the grey area bits. Kinda jolts you out of the detail into fanboy pondering...but again, like you say, it's not the worst thing that could happen.

Love that he's got lots of anecdotes from regular Cavern-goes, and the girls who started the fanclub, like not just quotes but long reminiscences. Am only about halfway through and still just loving the hell out of all of it

The amount of time it takes for Ringo to join the band is MADDENING. Also it's hilarious at how long they were 3 lead guitarists and maybe/sometimes a drummer. If they'd have waited another 20 years they could have been a prog band, lol

Brief interview with Lewisohn in today's NYTimes. I thought this was pretty fascinating:

Q: How did you get fresh information from people who had been interviewed about the Beatles many times over the decades? Don’t many of them tell their stories by rote, at this point?

A: Actually, a lot of people in this book were interviewed for the first time ever. But whether it was them, or people who have been interviewed often, I have a technique that is rooted in a psychotherapists’ technique, taking things to the interviews that will unlock memories — that will trigger thoughts that they hadn’t considered for a long time and will put them back into the time frame that I’m interested in. I would take old phone directories, so they could look up their parents’ address, and that would get them talking about other things from the time. Or street directories, maps, photographs. I’d take along a book of old Liverpool cinemas, because everyone has a nostalgia for the cinemas they used to go to in their childhood, especially in the pre-television days. I’d play recordings or video, or show them a contract or a letter, and it always worked: without fail, they were back in the zone, remembering things they hadn’t considered since the event.

Holy smokes, this guy really is some kind of genius.

I'm a bit concerned that he plans on finishing vol.3 when he's 70

Give the man a medal

Robert Caro's 78, and LBJ has only been president for a few months. I'm sure Lewisohn can finish this.

However, I can see how one might worry about Lewisohn's sources/interviewees dying off.

WRITE LIKE THE WIND, MAN

the good thing about this bio is that Lewisohn is happy to make it clear that John and Paul were both almost complete & utter knobs, but in their own unique way

Yeah, and for a bit in Hamburg it looked like Paul might be kicked out of the band. Fortunately for Paul, Pete was hated even more.

I'm a bit concerned that he plans on finishing vol.3 when he's I'm 70

*sings* when we're 64

The postman just arrived with my extended edition. It's a very nice object. It hadn't occurred to me to be aggrieved that I got a 'first edition - reprint' rather than a 'first edition' 'til I saw some chump moaning about it in the amazon reviews. I still don't know how enraged I should be tbh.

That's my 2014 sorted anyway.

Fuck it, I'm reading this thing again. While I was listening to the new BBC dealie I realized I had a much deeper understanding of/appreciation for where they were, how they were, why they were, the insane journey to get there, etc. etc.

Love finding stuff like this: "Had Paul passed [his audition for the Liverpool Cathedral Choristers' Guild], all subsequent events could have turned out very differently, for being in the choir involved a busy calendar of commitments for at least three years and possibly longer."

"subsequent events"...like the transformation of Western popular culture.

Nearly done with the uber version, it's been great, I expected a little more detail on the recording sessions but I guess you can look elsewhere for that shit

2020, though FFS

Somehow, I never knew George Martin's oboe teacher was Jane Asher's mother. Crazy coincidence.

Loving this. Can tell it's going to drive me nuts to wait however long for the 2nd edition.

Also, in case anyone cares, I'm creating a Spotify playlist that contains most of the songs referenced in the book:

https://play.spotify.com/user/darinfabrick/playlist/290CKldsqShkpShOFFxsRk

What a great idea, I'm in.

I've crawled to about page 120, loving it and it's worth taking my time. They are about five years old now. What gets me is all the stories not told - meetings guessed at but not recorded, what Alf and Julia might have got up to, the lists of great aunts and uncles who never lived, and so on and so on. It's like the book could've taken a thousand courses, of which The Beatles is only one.

darin, you're a genius

xpost well put!

thanks! I'll keep adding to the playlist (I'm only at page 300 or so currently).

Ismael otm (and darin, great idea!). I found myself much more gripped by the pre-Beatles-births dramas the second time around.

yeah that family history added a lot more depth to john & ringo's childhoods in particular

that whole bit about him falling out of the hospital bed to see the other kid's toy was so heartbreaking

I may get this as an audiobook. It's 43+ hours long, lol.

I still can't get over the idea that it's going to be 6/7 years before I get to read the next volume.

one wonders, does he have a back up guy/girl to finish it off for him.. *just in case*? his wife maybe (as per the John Peel 'Margrave Of The Marshes' book which was only half-finished when he passed on).

Indeed, does the publisher have him insured? Maybe they sent him off to Bupa before he started.

rachel lichtman ‏@DJRotaryRachel

Not saying the new Beatles book is thorough but I'm 700 pages in and Ringo's great-grandfather just returned a hat.

Hah, that reminds me of a place I used to work where I was in the occasional orbit of the guys that were putting together the Beatles anthology doc, I asked one of them how it was going and he gave me a weary look and said 'yeah really good, we've gotten the rough cut down to 10 hours and Pete Best hasn't even left the band yet'

yeah Anthology is glacial. and *boring* too has to be said.

It gets going when the period reportage catches up, it was a mistake to get every single bit of regional Beatles footage EVER and then try and parse it, pre '65 it's all the same pretty much.

yeah it's clunky for sure. i think No Direction Home has permanently altered my concept of how a rock doc should look/feel/sound. nothing else really compares.

I would have thought a rock doc stands and falls on the amount of footage available, Anthology disproves that theory. But I love it when you see some killer bit of film in a doc and think 'how did they *find* that? why even was somebody there with a camera??'

But I love it when you see some killer bit of film in a doc and think 'how did they *find* that? why even was somebody there with a camera??'

yeah, it's kinda amazing that there's a photograph and a sound recording of the concert Lennon met Paul at.

It's interesting to compare Anthology v. Lewisohn: Lewisohn makes the Beatles' childhoods so involving, puts them in a rich world of interconnecting characters. Anthology feels like stock Time-Life "Forties" footage by comparison.

I've been racking my brains trying to think of what documentary I saw in the last couple of years that completely blew my mind with the wtf quality of the footage, it's driving me crazy.

Rush : Beyond The Lighted Stage?

YES!

Yeah, that was a great one, and I'm not much of a Rush fan. Pretty surprised that there was so much footage of their pre-label/pre-Peart days.

finally finished Lewisohn & now I'm sad ;_;

One thing I meant to say in all my rabbitting on about how much I love it, is what a beautiful job he has done in his portrayal of Brian. There is such genuine affection and admiration for him, so much more than I've ever seen put into words for him, it really does his memory so well.

And there's a really sad little footnote in the acknowledgements in the end, about how Neil Aspinall called him up after he'd retired from Apple in 07 and said 'okay I can do those interviews now, anything you want to know I'll talk' - they got together for a lovely chat which comprised most of Neil's comments in the first volume...and he promptly passed away soon thereafter. And he is another who certainly is served well by Lewisohn's portrayal of him.

anyway. what a cracking good read!! bloody hell.

OTM re: Lewisohn's portrayal of Epstein. Supposedly, most of the additional material in the expanded edition is about Brian (and George Martin). Since those were the most fascinating parts of the book to me, dammit, now I wanna read the expanded version.

I was reading about Brian's army days last night, where he was reposted to London and the gay underworld first opened up to him (to an innocent extent). I wondered where the quotes came from - 'I met homosexuals everywhere I went' - when it would have been either still illegal or only just legal when he died.

agree that Epstein is a wonderfully drawn character (and Martin, too)--am about halfway through the first volume of the enormo version. You can see the seeds of how he'd present the Beatles in his first days at his family's department store, where he makes the window displays chic but not ostentatious

and in re Martin, it's so refreshing to see him as a human being. Usually he's just cast the patrician straight man figure in most Beatles bios, with no inner life.

otm

Tweets from Lewisohn:

"The extended edition of Tune In has sold out and is now unavailable. Another print may or may not be scheduled at some future time. The e-book (issued in two halves) IS still available, but it’s UK only. My US publisher, Crown, wouldn’t issue the extended book and couldn’t agree terms for the e-book. I’m sorry about that, for me and for everyone in US who wants to buy it, but I can do nothing about it."

Man, that's a shame. Glad I got it in time.

I picked up a used copy of 'You Never Give Me Your Money' -- interesting to come at them from the money/snark angle, makes for v interesting reading!

Yeah, and it's such a sad story. But the most fascinating aspects about that era for me were how they were able to compartmentalize. It was, almost literally, "Hey, asshole, sign this Allen Klein agreement!" "Fuck no! Go fuck yourself! Anyway, OK then, it's 'Something' take 2, innit? One, two, three, four..."

It's like Ringo said in the Anthology: there were always great songs, and when they were playing/recording, the business bullshit may as well have never existed.

yeah, I find that really interesting. I wonder if it ties back into all that time in Hamburg...like when there's music to play they just can't help but hone right in no matter what.

think i was most surprised to find how close they did come to reuniting, how it was this thing out there that was always a real possibility and also kinda a thing they could eventually cash in on (which is effectively what happened w/ george and the 'reunion' in the 90s). the paul-john relationship is still kinda an enigma to me tbh. obv there's a love there and they both were aware just how much the other mattered to them being who they were but at the same time there always been this element to that relationship that reminds me of 'work friend' or 'workplace spouse' or whatever. it reminds me of gilbert and sullivan where the one is nearly impossible w/o the other but they're not nearly as close as you might imagine.

i think it's the opposite imo

my theory is they *are* that close, but songwriting is the only place where it translates, where they can use it unconsciously & not have to think about what the other means/thinks/wants - their inherent closeness drives them apart in the rest of their life bcz they never knew how to talk about it imo

I was going to post something about how the Who were close because they constantly talked shit/were vocal about how much they didn't like one another, but VG, you nailed it. Lewisohn talks about how neither John nor Paul even mentioned Julia's death, as if to do so would reveal a certain vulnerability. I think that carried through the rest of their lives. It's why Paul kept showing up with a guitar on John's doorstep into the late 70s, knowing that songwriting (or at least the potential opportunities for collaboration) was the only way they could remain close, or at least communicate what they couldn't otherwise communicate to one another.

exactly.

like all of Daltrey & Townsend's fist-throwing translates to RAGH FEELINGS I HAVE THEM FUCK OFF RAGH

my theory is they *are* that close, but songwriting is the only place where it translates, where they can use it unconsciously & not have to think about what the other means/thinks/wants - their inherent closeness drives them apart in the rest of their life bcz they never knew how to talk about it imo

i think this is pretty much dead-on. it's telling that even when they truly seemed to hate eachother's guts in the "Let it Be" sessions, they can still do a gorgeous duet on "Two of Us" and subconsciously acknowledge how much they mean to each other (Macca's assertions that "ToU" is about him & Linda aside)

It's hard to imagine Jagger and Richards holding conversations about babies and feelings either, but unlike the John-Paul dynamic Richards has bellyached for more than 20 years about Jagger's reticence.

I haven't read Mark Lewisohn's book (honestly, I don't know that I'm up to a long book on the Beatles at this point in my life), but I'll see this, in part because of all the enthusiasm for the book here.

http://revuecinema.ca/movies/articles/2014/beatlemania-at-the-revue-july-31,-7-pm

awesome

um so I bought the hardcover...even though I have the kindle version

a) is there a 12-step program and b) do I really need it or am really v sane

u mad

;_;

It was cheap, wasn't it?

$35, purchased w a gift card so practically free :D

I won't tell you how much it was in Fopp then.

Didn't get one: too heavy.

is the hardcover the complete version that didn't get released in the US?

torn between my desire to read this and my gut feeling that i already know too much about the beatles

If you know what "Japage 3" is, you know enough about the Beatles.

torn between my desire to read this and my gut feeling that i already know too much about the beatles

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, December 19, 2014 4:31 PM (3 minutes ago)

A friend of mine who is the biggest Beatles obsessive in the world was actually going to pass on this, because he figured, what more is there to know? Then I started telling him about the stuff in the book, and since he knows Lewisohn a bit, he started hearing first hand, and he eventually went screw it and bought the UK version, which is like 2000 pages. He's excited like a little girl in the Ed Sullivan auditorium.

Me, I'm a casual Beatles fan, but it was one of the best books I've read in months. Just amazing to read this mind-blowing day to day detail about all the chance encounters and serendipity that changed the world forever, tiny little things that, had any of the many moving pieces did not fallen into place just right, would have meant no Beatles. Just fascinating.

that's it, yes.

totally otm

does this pretty much render every other beatles book irrelevant? i did read every beatles book i could get my hands on between the ages of like 13 and 16, but in retrospect i suspect a lot of them were pretty unreliable. the only one i've felt the need to dig out and reread since then is the ian macdonald book, which is great but of course isn't a biography.

I've read several that kind of suck for various reasons - All You Need is Love, the Bob Spitz one - would love to read a great one but find this a bit daunting

Spitz one made me actively angry at several points. All You Need is Love I read as a teenager and I remember it being very tabloid-y.

it doesnt render anything else irrelevant per se

but this is the def one of the most engaging biographies out there imo

the philip norman one has a weirdly high reputation but even as a teen i could tell it was overwritten crap with a stupid bias against paul.

otm. Seem to recall that he is the one who came up with the crazy theory that Paul was right-handed but only played left-handed, or something like that.

I believe that is true. Sure Paul has said it just felt more natural that way.

Our Alice used to mess around with guitars when little and would play them either way round, but she's settled on right-handed now.

Anyway, most of the Beatle books lock down the facts and put a little narrative between them. And most of them rattle through the early years to get to "Love me do" and beyond, where the facts are easier to lock down.

The Lewisohn book is great for people who already know everything about the Beatles because more than any work it places them in the context of the times and places where it happened. (Revolution in the Head tried to do this and completely failed imho). As mentioned by everyone the detail is tremendous and lots of it is about Liverpool/England/The World at the time, not specifically the Beatles. So ultimately it enriches and contextualizes all the information we already have consumed about the Beatles.

http://www.beatlesagain.com/breflib/lefthand.html

I didn't grow up in Liverpool in the late fifties, more South Shields in the early sixties, but I definitely felt the time and place for real. And playing pubs and clubs with three guitarists and one amp with 2 guitars through it, yes.

i got the lewisohn out of the library earlier this year, but only got about 1/3 of the way through it before i had to return it.
might have to buy it. or i might just wait for the next volumes when things start getting serious.
tbh i kind of want someone to re-do revolution in the head -- which i like a lot, but i disagree w/ the author so much that it's sometimes frustrating to pick up.

I really like the song summaries and the recording info in Revolution In The Head, though I don't agree with a lot of it, but I think the timeline stuff at the back is just pointless.

revolution in the head is a great book imo but you have to sort of take a lot of what he says with a grain of salt. there's a lot of misplaced anger and general misanthropy in there, but a lot of his insights are brilliant and it's very well written. it was one of the last beatles books i got around to during my teenage-fan days and it was kind of bracing to read after a lot of indifferently written and gossipy books that tended to ignore the music.

Tried to read that book but
1) It was at least twenty years after my youthful Beatles fandom and
2) I had already been reading Alan W. Pollack's Notes On...: http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-notes_on.shtml

Love his relatively light touch so far - he knows that he can just say "known as Penny Lane" and it's ka-BOOM.

Paul is left handed, but it's actually Ringo who was born left handed but taught to be right handed, which may be one reason his playing has this nice awkward quality to it.

The Lewisohn book talks a lot about how John originally played guitar with banjo chords, so Paul would have to teach him the correct guitar chords, playing left handed in front of him while John mirrored the finger positions. There are lots of stories of John and Paul (or maybe Paul and George?) taking the bus for hours to some part of England just to see a guy who supposedly knows some chord they can't figure out.

Book also notes - which is obvious once you think about it - that the standard John, Paul, George and Ringo (which sounds weird any other way you say it) is the order they joined the band.

Another neat epiphany in the book is that Paul more or less ended up playing the bass by default. He grew up playing piano, then took up guitar, even played drums on the occasions that Pete didn't show, and would sometimes switch back to piano in the early days when one of the piano players wouldn't show, but took up bass only as a last resort when Stu dropped out. He used Stu's bass, which is only a Hofner because it was the cheapest domestic bass he could find while they were playing in Germany.

The book also tallies up the total number of hours the Beatles logged in Germany, some ungodly number that was the equivalent to a year and a half of steady gigging in Liverpool or some such wild total. All squeezed into just a few months. Maybe the equivalent of 1200 gigs at home? Something like that. It explains how the Beatles got so good, and certainly so much better than any other band in Liverpool. Though curiously fails to explain how Pete Best didn't manage to improve nearly as much as his bandmates.

Paul was on the Nerdist podcast today, just casually telling stories from the long ago...having picked up the book yesterday it was just such lovely timing, universe saying YES rereread the book bc here's lovely old macca chatting away about their early years, all the little things I love, the "mach shau!" and john & paul sitting down together "to write a swimming pool", or how they wrote in thd toilet because the acoustics were better, contextualizing the sadness & fear of his parents generation vs the joy & freedom of his teenage generation, being born during bombs & coming of age with rock n roll...i love all that stuff! and hearing it from him is just nice. it makes me so teary!!! he even talked abt him & john at the Dakota watching SNL momentarily toying with going down to 30 rock :)

idk

i think if you have any love or curiosity for the chain of events & cultural forces that brought the lads together, you really really should read Lewisohn

just for the fact that it helps you to re-love them all over again :)

hmm i realize even that overstates it though

for me, it just really is the book i always *wanted* to read sbout the beatles, but i didnt know what i wanted exactly til i read this

I think my favorite part of this book was when poor George got stuck in a car with a wasted and armed Gene Vincent who was trying hunt down an ex-lover or something.

Also, how John and Paul are constantly "pulling birds" and desperately searching for places to furtively hook up while poor George keeps getting drawn into these platonic relationships.

Revolution In The Head the *audiobook*

http://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Arts-Entertainment/Revolution-in-the-Head-Audiobook/B00P2W2YRS?source_code=M2M30DFT1BkSH101614009R

read by David Morrissey, Robyn Hitchcock, Danny Baker, Matt Berry, David Hepworth and a few others i haven't heard of.

One beatle each?

Can't wait to hear Danny Baker's go at Ringo.

Ooh look, Joe Boyd's book narrated by Joe Boyd!

good stuff here for anyone waiting for the 2nd volume of Lewisohn's books. due by 2020 supposedly and possibly going from '63 to '66.

http://www.criticsatlarge.ca/2015/10/beatles-confidential-mark-lewisohn-in.html

i love the cut of his jib i have to say

" I refuse to accept such preconceived views. There are many entrenched opinions about the Beatles history – “this was a mistake, if only that had happened, Brian Epstein squandered all the merchandizing rights, Magic Alex was a charlatan, the Maharishi episode was stupid, Dick James sold them down the river, Allen Klein was the devil, Magical Mystery Tour was a folly, Apple was a waste of money” – all the usual things – but I won’t allow any of that into my head. I refuse to look at things that way.. "

fuck, i thought TUNE IN was the whole project! wasn't it like 10,000 pages or something? this isn't going to be finished until 2025?

fuck, i thought TUNE IN was the whole project! wasn't it like 10,000 pages or something? this isn't going to be finished until /2025/?

That was part one. I read the directors cut version that came in two volumes, forget how many pages it was, like 2000? Flew by.

so excited for next book, vol 1 was such a treat

I'm not so interested in vol 1 but vol 2 covers my favorite period. 10 years from now I should be able to afford a copy lol

i understand he's changed the name of the third volume to Holy Shit, I Am So Sick Of The Beatles

heh

plz tell me volume 2 isn't going to be called "Turn On"

it is!
(but yeah, I agree -- i wasn't toooo interested in the childhood narratives of the first volume, but the rest of it seems like it'll be great)

lol that is terrible

I'm not so interested in vol 1 but vol 2 covers my favorite period. 10 years from now I should be able to afford a copy lol

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, November 24, 2015 7:01 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's what I thought before I read volume 1. Now I have a new favorite Beatles period. Reading about their earliest days -- as people, not just as bandmates -- has effectively recontextualized their music for me now when I hear it (in a positive way).

jesus christ I have to wait 5 more years for this next book?!!!

;_;

in the meantime we all have each other

I've been waiting almost 15 years for the second volume of Gary Giddins' Bing Crosby biography. No publication date in sight.

That's what I thought before I read volume 1.

Me too. I though Volume 1 would be a chore but it was a real pleasure. Everything felt new.

plz tell me volume 2 isn't going to be called "Turn On"

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, November 25, 2015 12:03 AM (12 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Vol 3 is gonna be called "... Naah!"

I still think Japage3 is some sort of proto-indie 80's bandname.

Vol 3 should just be called "The End"

yes.

I managed to get Vol 1 for €5 but haven't read any of it yet.
I think it's vol 2 or 3 that will most interest me though. Psych era which is probably more 65-68 so probably overlaps the 2 volumes.
So when is volume 3 due? 10 years from now? & if so, do wonder if he is just working totally chronologically or if he is adding parts as research leads him. I think research is unlikely to wind up with information in strict chronological order. THings turn up at unexpected times. Just wondering what happens if he gets in an accident between here and when he has the Beatles split, if his wealth of information might be useful to somebody else who wanted to pick up the reigns.

& I also really want to get a book of the Robert Whittaker photos, so wonder what the best one is.

There is something weird about his project i.e. the non-zero chance he will die or get ill before everything is complete, and whether that happens or doesn't how his information is laid out for future biographers.

Like, he is trying to be definitive in the last period in which this might be possible for the Beatles specifically, but also the first period in which it is truly possible information-wise. Like, he's nudging at the edging of the period when all primary sources are available forever.

On my phone so hard to type this crap. But seems tragic. The search for the truth and all that.

His 20 years or more of research will be quickly superseded by regular contemporary précis, rewritten according to the age.

gettin vol 1 from the library today

i'm about halfway through revolution in the head[.

when i started it, i was unaware of the author's depression issues but keep thinking: jeez, this guy is relentlessly/unnecessarily negative. and now i just feel bad.

man the Brian Epstein stuff is so sad

Good interview:

www.travelsinmusic.com/episode-01-mark-lewisohn/

Thanks for posting that. Really interesting stuff. When asked "Why Liverpool?" Lewisohn points out that, among other things, Liverpool was the only city in the world in the 1950s with a rock 'n' roll scene. That is, many cities (in the US, obviously less so in other parts of the world) had jazz, blues, and rhythm & blues scenes, but none had (and Lewisohn does leave himself open to correction) a rock 'n' roll scene.

He also talks about how the India trip was the real turning point in terms of them starting to get sick of each other.

There was some other thread where we were talking about the Ron Howard film, but I can't find it. In lieu of that, the full trailer:

https://www.facebook.com/hulu/videos/10154397830312188/

Another good new interview with our guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0fXa1DTR6U

Watched Eight Days a Week over the weekend. Good fun, but not a lot of new ground covered.

really enjoying this book:

https://books.google.com/books/content/images/frontcover/8geICwAAQBAJ?fife=w300-rw

Some really entertaining anecdotes including Paul playing Tomorrow Never Knows for Bob Dylan before Revolver came out (Bob's response "Oh I get it. You don't want to be cute anymore."), interesting context around Yellow Submarine / infantilism in mid-sixties London and infighting during the recording of She Said She Said.

interesting -- jon savage also recently wrote a book about the year 1966.

Just listened to audio book of Barry Miles' new Zapple history. Very cool history but the Fabs - at least John, Paul and George - come across a bit assholish at times.

is there a worse contemporaneous critical body of work than the stuff written about the Beatles? Granted rock crit was in its infancy, but going back and reading reviews from the time (esp as the Beatles got further into their career) the amount of misguided invective and just retrospectively bizarre opinions is mind-boggling. Feels sort of similar to how Zep and Sabbath eventually got ret-conned into the canon at Rolling Stone - at some point critical consensus coalesced into acceptance + much higher degree of acclaim

(tbf this occurred to me while scanning the critical reception of McCartney's first two solo albums but larger point stands)

nik cohn famously panned both the white album and abbey road:

https://static01.nyt.com/packages/pdf/arts/nikcohn1968.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/library/music/100569lennon-beat.html

and then there was this gem: http://screwrocknroll.tumblr.com/post/482115454/we-still-need-the-beatles-but

I know they got a lot of positive press too, but sometimes that isn't any better, as it's just vapid and adoring. Rolling Stone did p well in general, but some of the other stuff that was floating around is p dire.

Nice take on Beggars Bandquet in that first Cohn link though

i'd seen that richard goldstein pan of pepper mentioned countless places but had never actually read it till now -- i don't agree w/ most of his take on the album but it is actually a more thoughtful, less kneejerk dismissal than i would've assumed. i did kind of lol at this line --

Musically, there are already indications that the intense atonality of “A Day in the Life” is a key to the sound of 1967.

-- because it reminds me of the "maybe he's an early clue to the new direction!" scene in a hard day's night.

Golstein piece isn't dumb but it does reach bizarre conclusions. Like tying their aesthetic legitimacy to their willingness to be shouted at by masses of teenagers, for ex.

We need the Beatles, not as cloistered composers, but as companions. And they need us. In substituting the studio conservatory for an audience, they have ceased being folk artists, and the change is what makes their new, album a monologue.

I'm not a big Beatles fan, one way or the other, but I've got to give a lecture on them as part of a wider course on the sixties this week, so I've been digging around. I'd read both the Norman book and Revolution in the Head before, and had reasonable memories of them, bu returning to them....Shout! is wildly inaccurate about lots of details, which make you doubt the whole thing - Dick James had a office on the corner of Denmark St and Old Compton St? they don't intersect - Epstein wend to school in Beaconsfield, which Norman carelessly relocates in Kent etc. loads more. RitH is full fo journalistic cliche - McCartney and his celtic blood etc....everytime I read something now by the NM writers I grew up with I realise how bad that shit was.

I don't regret reading the first part of Mark Lewisohn's All These Years, will probably read the next volume when it's out. You can't fault him for accuracy, it's such a tome that any great insight tends to get lost somewhere, but still plenty I remember, especially as two of the Beatles grew up just round the corner from my mum, so I know all the places. The only real complaint I have is the way he tries to lighten the tone with bits of scouse slang, this really begins to grate after a few hundred pages.

nothing touches Lewisohn for scope and accuracy imo

agree

I'm just about finished the Lewisohn book. The nearest analogue in my experience is the Lord of the Rings — it's an astonishingly detailed epic, in a vivid setting (complete with map!), with its own dialect, amazing characters and a propulsive narrative that just builds and builds.

Been seeing Lewisohn commenting on Youtube in a couple of interviews that Vol2 won't be ready for next year, more like 2020 or later :(

Many Years from Now is a good one for McCartney's perspective.

I think I said this upthread but the biggest achievement of the Lewisohn book is re-investing me in their story. Like, I pretty much know how they met and I was still excitedly anticipating the moments when they meet up in the book. and peeling the mythology back to them being fairly normal teenagers etc.

Yeah, that whole "three guitarists, one amplifier" stuff put me right in the room.

Like, I pretty much know how they met and I was still excitedly anticipating the moments when they meet up in the book.

That was a big part of what I loved about the book, too. But also, there were the parts of the story I thought I knew being turned on their head, e.g., "George Martin heard them and said, 'not great, but not bad, I'll sign you'" is now "George Martin was having an affair with his secretary, which his bosses punished him for by forcing him to record a band EMI had only signed for songwriting publishing purposes."

To say nothing of "Japage 3" and all those other band names that pre-date the Qs

I thought the story in Lewisohn of "Love Me Do"'s climb and run on the charts was equally compelling and shocking in how much it had never been told before.

yeah i agree

https://open.spotify.com/episode/66u8d0xhy1mDMAxzpYkibZ?fbclid=IwAR0aRIrcVwMRiRfN27c9qX1LlkS2DTvzk82QTnt081KFJ2sKNd_tBNj2BXg

There's a first part to this, too, but I was just listening to this.

(Lewisohn on Beatles '69)

Thanks a lot for that! It's hard enough to wait for the next volume, much less whichever one will cover the final years, so that was a nice taste. I too tried to go through all the Nagra tapes but fell behind a day or two and never caught up. Here's hoping whatever companion to the Jackson film or anniversary sets will cherry pick the best of it (including conversations). Some incomplete but pretty interesting efforts here: Get Back to Let It Be Dissected and They May Be Parted. Definitely for the hardcore only, but I found it engrossing.

Thanks so much for that! I love Dutch radio DJ voices!

i think of myself as fairly hardcore in terms of the beatles, but close readings of the nagra tapes are just too much for me. can't get past the writing style on "they may be parted" or the appalling web design on "dissected".

Yeah, the web design on "dissected" is like a peek into a world where GeoCities still rules the net. And those goofy images!

fbclid=IwAR0aRIrcVwMRiRfN27c9qX1LlkS2DTvzk82QTnt081KFJ2sKNd_tBNj2BXg

I teetered on the edge of exploring those nagra tapes and then said fuck it I'll let the hobbit guy explain it all to me later

Lewisohn's narrative is kinda interesting, he's examined the nagra reels and suggests that the Twickenham sessions (and by extension, most of the events of '69) weren't at all as gloomy as history has made it to be, far from it, in fact.

i don't know, maybe it wasn't! what i've heard from the sessions is dire, miserable music, but they certainly could have been enjoying themselves while indulging in those terrible aimless jams! i mean i guess it's not actually _worse_ than "thanks for the pepperoni"...

kind of curious as to what lewisohn makes of "a toot and a snore in '74"

I enjoyed that They May Be Parted site but lol that 7+ years later and he's still only covered the first week of recordings