Hands up if you love Can!

But yes, I love Can.

(Name-dropping factlette: the drummer for my old band in NYC, Fugue State - his dad used to be in a band with Malcolm Mooney! True!)

Every day is a joy of discovering new music day!

The most absurd, laughable thing I've read on ILM.

You are good for a laugh, though, I'll give ya that!

First you say the Meters "plod", then you backtrack and say they "strut". ok. Then, "lazy" = lack-of-progression? Hmm, well if they had ended immediately following the '69-'70 period, it would have been enough for a legacy of great of-the-moment pop instrumentals, and an enduring contribution to the nascent funk lexicon. But in fact, they did expand and update their sound throughout the 70's with vocals, rock influences, and studio post-production. ALways successful? Heck no. But calling them lazy is groundless.

The Meters - yes, purposeless. Also - may I just say that Z. Modeliste is a rubbish drummer. OK at the loose n' funky, but singularly unable to lock it down real good when it NEEDS to be locked down real good.

"Nick Hornby's of this world" = some kind of weird sublimated rage toward a v. successful writer. Anyway, I sure know I've never read a lick of him (tho I did see that movie) (also, "[x]'s of this world" = very tired construct)

Anyway, I really don't want to hijack Nick's thread, so I'll just say that if Can's "Aumgn" led to the Happy Mondays (using whatever Chuck Eddy style derivation you wish), then Zig Modeliste's unparalleled high-hat work surely left an impression with Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson. And I'll take the two Americans, thank you.

When I fucking say so.

yeah. he didn't have to try hard tho': just the quotes from it makes me hate hornby. what a retard!

The best Happy Mondays track is also their most krautrock - 'The Egg' from the 'Freaky Dancin' 12 inch.

one of my fave tracks, 'half past one', unfortunately the 'Landed' album is pretty pointless..

Anyway, on the matter of this sub-Julian Cope bullshit about Can being old hat. I feel sorry for Th' Faith Healers who were rocking out a bangin' version "Mother Sky" and writing their own heavy Kraut inspired drones over a decade ago to little or no attention. An overlooked gem of the early 90's Camden Lurch scene methinks.

Now, where's me copy of "Reptile Smile" gone?

And I actually really like "Aumgn". It's the track that made me fall in love with Tago Mago. I know, I'm 'difficult'.

(And agreed, Future Days is fantastic.)

The reason I like "Aumgn" is because it reminds me of the deep-space psych feeling to the later, stranger parts of 2001.

Or that's why I initially liked it. Now I just like the cool drumming and the neat high-pitched whine at the end. Or sumthing.

Hah hah hah hah hah hah hah hah hah!!!

ROTFL!!! Considering my friend that advocates this opinion is probably the closest you can get to St. Julian without actually *being* Julian Cope...

Can = great I sez.

In regards to what?

Remember that scene in Close Encounters when the scientist plays the five-note melody at the mothership who answers back with a massive low-frequency honking which blows out the windows? OK, now replace the five-note melody with the Velvet Underground's "Sister Ray" and play it at the mothership. Can is what it replies with.

I like the Mooney era more than the Suzuki era, although I think the band's greatest moments were with Suzuki. "Can Delay 1968", "Monster Movie", and "Soundtracks" are precious. As is "Ege Bamyasi" and first half of "Tago Mago".

Marcello is just yanking our chains on the Meters, I think. I know a million people who listen to them, all the time. I disagree strongly with the assertion that Ziggy Modeliste couldn't lock it down. Lee Dorsey records aren't locked down? The Wild Tchoupitoulas album? What does Nick Hornby know about the Meters anyway? What does locking it down mean anyway, it all has to be like Booker T. or Zapp or James Brown? All of whom I find much more interesting than Can--whom I like just fine.

Funk is not about the loose and funky, as one poster above puts it...it's TIGHTENED UP and funky, I ain't going to call you stupid. And Ziggy M. is tightened up whereas Can--did I say I liked them?--just kinda rambles...not that there's anything...

And it was here that Neudonym first uttered that damning ILM phrase "sigh."

So it's personal taste, then, yes. But my taste is just as valid to me as yours to you. I love many different genres of music, by the way, and can get along without it. But I do feel strongly that funk, in and of itself, is enough.

"hunters and collecr0rz/

all come out at night/

hunters and collectors/

(very peculiar scrreeeeonggGgGgGgg noise you only hear after you've listened to thee rekkid loads ov times)

never see the li-hi-hight" (etc)

I do like amon duul & popol vuh loads better tho.

But I know you can't be bothered, so never mind.

And dave q, you are very naughty, but that doesn't mean you're right either.

Sorry, but anytime anyone bleats "well, i like it and my opinion is perfectly valid and if you don't like it that's too bad" I reach for my sick bag. It's a little hobby horse of mine.

OK, quick shot: What is this "extra content" without which funk is worthless, anyway? Meaningful lyrics? Conceptual albums? Really, I'm at a loss. What is James Brown about, other than the funk? Throw out the odd socially-conscious anthem like "King Heroin" and "Say It Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud," and the Godfather has two subjects at most: sex and funk, which are interchangeable in his music anyway. Look at the song titles alone: "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," "Ain't That a Groove," "Let Yourself Go," "Cold Sweat," "Sex Machine," "I Got the Feelin'," "Give It up or Turnit a Loose," "Mother Popcorn," "Funky Drummer," "Hot Pants," "Make it Funky," "I Got Ants in My Pants," "There It Is," "Get on the Good Foot," "Doing it to Death," "My Thang," "Get Up Offa That Thing," "It's Too Funky in Here"... His entire artistic world is composed of being lost in the funk, trapped by the funk, consumed by the funk, liberated by the funk, and whatever other existential implications arise from this condition, as expressed in its purest form by that howl that we all instantly know as JB. What else does he need?

My argument, or "bleat" as you so charmingly put it, was this: I really prefer funk music that incorporates other elements (my examples being Clinton, Chic, Hendrix), but funk is the only music for me that is great EVEN WHEN it's uninspired. To me, basic standard pop music is boring pop music; basic standard funk music is great. And I was trying to say that to Marcello without ramming it down his throat, because I knew he wouldn't be convinced by my just saying "Funk is funk is funk and that's the truth and if you don't like it fuck you." So your argument is really not with me.

And I agree with you about James Brown, although I think that his "socially conscious" stuff was a larger part of his work than you do. But he's clearly the shining zenith of funk, and all sorts of mystical stuff can be attributed to his revolutionary style of music, which thereby somehow makes it "something extra." What I was getting at was that, for me, lesser lights of the genre are still great. The Ohio Players are no James Brown, or even P.Funk...but I love 'em even at their stupidest ("Everybody Disco," etc.) The list goes on--funk is just the music that appeals to me on its most basic level.

That's what I meant to say. If you somehow got that I said "funk was worthless unless it had something extra to it," then that's on you.

And let's not talk about childish when we use words like "bleat" and "sick bag", okay? Damn, it's hard to agree with people around here.

Secondly, back to talking about Can, okay?

What you've said is that you like funk. So what? Tell me why you like funk.

How'd I do, then?

Rockist, I wouldn't know timba as a genre; I only know timba as a percussion instrument. I'll try to check that out.

Ben, I'm not a student or a teacher of musical forms, so I can't respond to what you say your argument is. For me, it's all about liking or disliking funk, and I like it. I don't need to justify my tastes by slapping a whole mess of critic-think on them, and so I won't.

And I wonder how you can generalize about "funk as a musical form" by referring to James Brown, who although brilliant and one of the most important musicians of the century is certainly not the only musician in this genre. If it was all JB then there would be no arguments, I think (he said knowing ILM will be able to produce at least someone to say "I don't like James Brown").

But anyway, it's been kind of fun but I'm gonna drop out of this one, due to fatigue and the pressing need to get some work done so I don't get fired so I can afford to get that Dazz Band disc that's been flirting with me at Frugal Muse.

What you've said is that you like garlic. So what? Tell me why you like garlic.

In most cases, explaining why you like certain thins is pointless and overly intellectual. This is esp true in the case of something like funk, where you 'feel' it more than you appreciate it at any higher level of thought.

where's my sick bag?

this is a discussion board ppl. so discuss funk. lets turn feeling to words.

Seems pointless to me, you either like it or you don't

I like Zekariya Ahmed and Riad el-Sounbatti's compositions for Oum Kalthoum better than Abdel Wahab's, generally, because, for one thing, they give her more room to improvise. But why I do like her improvising? Well, her voice goes here and goes there, and she does subtle variations on the same phrase. Why do I like that? Why do I like the taste of garlic?

(Apologies to those wanting to read about Can.)

Not that we haven't totally hijacked the fuckin' thread already. But still.

If that will remove me from the straw man position ("Remember that guy who wouldn't discuss why he liked funk music? Ha ha, what a maroon, good times, ah where are the snows of yesteryear"), then screw it, I'm in. Tonight, perhaps, or tomorrow. But I'm not promising that it'll be all that illuminating for anyone who isn't, say, me.

But you and Julio D. continue to insist that it IS important for me to spill my guts on this crucial issue. So okay then.

I don't think that Funkadelic is necessarily an improvement over what JB did...it's a modification, more "lyrical content" perhaps, but really, it's the same message. How does "One Nation Under a Groove" really differ--in its "message"--from most of what James Brown does? Plus JB certainly has "content" along with funk, doesn't it? Is not the obsessive namechecking of Mobile, lovely Atlanta, Augusta, Nashville-Johnny Cash-ville, and the dismissal (good-humored) of "Ohio" which JB pronounces "O-hye-a" content in and of itself? Assertion of pride of place?

I think Marcello was just pulling our leg, as I said earlier. The Meters is a bit empty, content-wise if you look at content as having something all mapped out beyond a blueprint, but isn't a blueprint meaningful? What does "Pungee" mean? "Dry Spell" sounds like one to me. And so forth...

Funk is a way of playing music for people who want to dance tightened up, is a simple, I'm sure I'll get dissed by people who say simplistic, way of looking at it, and of course it is deliberately simplistic. But I don't see how a way of playing music is necessarily only that, or how a methodology doesn't imply a worldview, I get a worldview from James Brown or even Lee Dorsey, two of my favorite artists ever, much more of one than I get from Can, a group from Germany whom I like and who was the original hands-up subject of this thread.

What does this phrase "tightened up" mean here?

MESSAGE FROM THE METERS

People, like birds from a feather, let's get together.

What does this phrase "tightened up" mean here?

-- Rockist Scientist

You ever watch "Soul Train"?
The whole idea of playing that music is to tighten up. Count a measure of James Brown and you'll get the idea, it's a very stiff--tightened up--four beats. The chank of those rhythm guitarists is very tightened up, too. Staccato. Staccato "robot" dancing.

Hands up if you prefer Kraftwerk.

http://www.niancrae.com/jayinterview2.gif

-- Julio Desouza

Saying "count along to James Brown's four beats" is musicological analysis, Julio? Snap fingers/move/dance?

it isn't.

Future Days and Monster Movie are really the shit, tho coming on to me as functionally opposite albums. the first being the numbingly beautiful late-nite bliss out album, while Monster movie is the perfect sdtrack for speed-crazed mornings watching the pale winter sun come up..

Outside the title track, most of the music is much more busy fusion than the stripped minimal sound on their earlier albums. Damo is gone, but the vocals are better on this one than later on when they started trying to write songs, otherwards it is mostly instrumental.

Michael Karoli gets down on a violin on one track which mingles in nicely with these weird soundscapes that Irmin Schmidt coaxes out of an Alpha 77 (whatever that is).