Mahavishnu Orchestra C/D/S/D

there's a great album of John McLaughlin and Carlos Santana called "Love, Devotion, Surrender" in which they do a tribute to John Coltrane. it's super duper beautiful and heavy. they're all wearing white outfits and hanging out with their guru Sri Chinmoy on the cover.
Santana was hanging out with Mrs. Alice Coltrane around this time and put out and album with her called "Illuminations" that's not too shabby.
Matching Mole - Robert Wyatt's band after Soft Machine. even though they're considered prog, this is more jazz influenced. the s/t album is my favorite.
Return to Forever - chick corea's band. very fast & complicated stuff.
Tony Williams' Lifetime - ex-Miles drummer. his mid 70s stuff is da bomb. Allan Holdsworth's guitar puts eddie van halen to shame.
The first couple of Weather Report albums kick serious ass. not as heavy as some of this other stuff, but still great.
Michael Urbaniak - Polish fusion with violin as the lead instrument. his wife, Urszula Dudziak sings some wacky shit on a bunch of his albums.
and lastly a modern album - Raoul Björkenheim's "Scorch Trio" with Ingebrigt Haker Flaten and Paal Nilssen-Love on Rune Grammofon. one of my favorite albums of last year. guitar, bass & drums. super heavy modal fusion

Later stuff is a different affair, I've only heard "Apocalypse" which has an orchestra and everything... Didn't hit the spot at all for me.

Incidentally I'm listening to Shakti's self titled live album right now, which I think might be even better; pure acoustic madness.

Birds of Fire- I think it's their best, Jan Hammer expands with Moog (okay, maybe a tad cheesy, but I love it anyway)...Generally better music, IMO.

Between Nothingness and Eternity- Hmmm...maybe this is their best one, actually. The live one. Sound is not great, but if I could've attended one concert, it probably would have been this one, from the sound of it. All the songs on Lost Trident Sessions are bested by the versions here. Ending of "Sister Andrea", with Hammer's spiraling Moog and McLaughlin burning that final note is fantastic. "Dream", however, once it gets going, is absolutely fucking insane.

Apocalypse- The beginning of the ensemble version, recorded with an orchestra. Probably their overall least album, despite the talent involved.

Visions of the Emerald Beyond- Excellent; my favorite after Birds of Fire. Very eclectic. "Eternity's Breath 1" is a stunning opening, "Lila's Dance" is also beautiful. The closer, "On the Way Home to Earth"...whoa.

Inner Worlds- A contract fulfiller, too much encroaching Narada Michael Walden (great drummer, but...). However, "All in the Family" and the funky Miles one ("Miles Out"?) are killer.

Lost Trident Sessions- Again, bested by Between Nothingness (except in sound quality), but fans will want to own it anyway.

SHAKTI
Shakti - Live album, hair-raising, ridiculously fast climax at the end of "Joy".

A Handful of Beauty- Nice, but still probably their least.

Natural Elements- I think this was their best, more diverse in sound (non-Indian percussion, etc.), excellent scalloped guitar from McLaughlin. Check out the amazing "The Eagle and the Daffodil" and also "Get Down and Sruti" w/ superb Kanokol (sp?) scatting at the end.

there was a recording of mcclaughlin stuff pre-mahavishnu/pre-sri chinmoy, when he was still part of the hangdog brit blues boom, which i was always faintly intrigued by

but i never heard it

Yeah the first two Shakti albs are super-killer - Speed-Bhangra! Sadly, the recentish reunion discs are not specifically too gd.

Sundar, you're insane!! ;)

Another notible McLaughlin appearance is on Larry Coryell's "Spaces". The band also includes Billy Cobham and Chick Corea. There is some furious playing on this one. This album also has a couple of acoustic duets that kind of foreshadow the stuff McLaughlin did with Paco DeLucia and Al DiMeola later on. This one came out originally in 74.

http://www.lp-cd.de/2/B8334_01.jpg

mclaughlin seems really fucking high in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J88Ep3_vKIk

god, they were really pretty sick and weird and ahead of their time, weren't they?

So fucking awesome, holy shit they were good.

yeah, when they were good, they were as good as any prog band going (tho my jazz loving dad hates them for that reason). however, when they weren't good = also the reason I don't listen to that much fusion.

true

MILES BEYOND

I don't think you will ever see a group quite like this one come together again, I was amazed by some really low quality video (though the sound was OK) live clip of Mahavishnu on You Tube a couple of days back. Billy Cobham is a freak of a drummer in a band of freaky good players.

man Visions of the Emerald Beyond is so fucking sweet

You're talking about "Noonward Race", one of the giddiest thrill-rides in recorded history. I just love hearing McLaughlin play those flurries of 16th notes at the end of his solo, only to fuck up and leap headlong back into the song proper before he can do any more damage. That whole track (whole album) owes way more to rock than jazz. (And so what?)
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, August 22, 2005 1:13 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

This is a brilliant description of this song. The end of McLaughlin's solo he just abrubtly changes gears into the main riff is one of my favorite musical moments. It sounds like he was greasing his strings beforehand with WD-40.

Great great band.

anybody heard any of Billy Cobham's solo stuff? his drumming on Birds of Fire is fucking insane.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HNHy2x3a8fo/SdvXe-rkvyI/AAAAAAAAACQ/xuNuW4CrpOM/s320/billy.jpg
this one's pretty ok, tho it's not really mahavishnu-ish, as the title implies.

"spectrum" is immortal. haven't heard much besides that, and the stuff i have heard is forgettable. get "spectrum"!

yea spectrum

i found this one on the street. i need to relisten to it, but i remember digging it. the title track is a really long, freaky, avant krauty, synth weirdo track.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NZES9E3VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

and you should know this one if you listened to mid 90s hip hop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3E9vx5vVck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg86di2p34c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cda693NGOc

^flying lotus is repping this vibe hard these days

anybody heard any of Billy Cobham's solo stuff? his drumming on Birds of Fire is fucking insane.

― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, July 15, 2011 2:39 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Only Spectrum, Tommy Bolin's finest moment (which is saying a lot). The guy is fucking amazing on that record.

thanks guys grabbing spectrum! that track "heather" that jaxon posted is gorgeous too though so mellow & dialed-back

Wow, George Duke rocking the Minimoog and ARP Odyssey both - I thought those fusion guys generally had loyalty to one or the other

Apparently McLaughlin and Santana reunited at this year's Montreux Jazz Festival. It probably sucked, but I'm gonna see if any bootlegs are floating around.

Whaddya know, here's some footage of them doing "The Creator Has A Master Plan"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=230YzDsAUMs

I just got an incredible-sounding bootleg of a 1973 concert McLaughlin and Santana did together. The band was McLaughlin, Santana, Larry Young on organ, Doug Rauch on bass, Billy Cobham on drums and Armando Peraza on percussion. There are several existing bootlegs of this show - the guys I got mine from took all of 'em and combined the best parts to create a really, really clean-sounding double disc that contains the entire 2 1/2-hour show. Amazing stuff - seven tracks, all but one running between 15 and 30 minutes.

Would love to hear this. There's a great concert on YouTube of the Santa Monica show I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgz4ESqjj98

Awesome – thanks, cock. Phil, if you can hear me, I'd love to get my hands on those files if possible.

The band was McLaughlin, Santana, Larry Young on organ, Doug Rauch on bass, Billy Cobham on drums and Armando Peraza on percussion.
The same band as on "Love Devotion Surrender" of course.

I'm sure it's easily locatable online. The CD-R version I have was given the title With Loving Devotion to John Coltrane by the assembler.

I will hunt this down!

Getting into The Lost Trident sessions this morning, which is one I have not heard much. "Sister Andrea" is a really, really good track. The section on that tune when they break it down low you really hear McLaughlin channeling his inner-Miles Davis ala Sketches of Spain. It certainly sounded like a nod to me.

Billy Cobham's drumming is really the glue that holds these records together imo. I find a lot of McLaughlin's post-Mahavishnu output to be sort of, idk, watery?

Seeing McLaughlin play Mahavishnu tunes live last year was incredible. Agree about Cobham; he's amazing.

Who was in his band when you saw him?

I really like McLaughlin's first two acoustic jazz records with My Goals Beyond and the first Shakti album. That Shakti album is really intense. Eventually i would like to run into a LP of the San Francisco acoustic trio records. I had that one on tape as a kid and haven't heard it in years.

Apocalypse is pretty good for a Mahavishnu record after the original band. The 80s band sounds pretty 80s, although the stuff with Jonas Hellborg on Adventures in Radioland is pretty groovy.

Yeah Shakti is pretty good, but I never liked the Friday Night in San Francisco or his other acoustic stuff.

Who was in his band when you saw him?

I don't remember all their names, but I wrote about the show for Stereogum in November.

I like the last track on inner worlds a lot

Cobham is insane. I read a story once that when Cobham was a kid, he and his friends would have competitions to see who could keep a quarter pressed against the wall the longest with a roll.

Agree that he holds that group together, but Narada Michael Walden was a solid replacement. So crazy that he became this slick hitmaker. I saw Aretha Franklin this summer, and Walden was playing drums with her, and I kept thinking, huh, the same dude who did "Freeway of Love" and Whitney's "How Will I Know" was in Mahavishnu Orchestra. Anyway, he was a joy to watch, having so much fun. Here's a bit of him backing her at the show I saw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzPHaRowxu0

So cool to find this, this is a set I saw McLaughlin do in Spain in 1993, with Dennis Chambers and Joey DeFrancesco!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po_toT6n9aE

Who was in his band when you saw him?

4th dimension: ranjit barot, gary husband, etienne mbappé

mbappé was so sick. not only was he an insane bass player but he wore god damned gloves

JUst checking out Where fortune Smiles which is McLaughlin either just before he started mahavishnu or a little after. Alongside John Surman, Dave Holland, Karl Berger nad Stu martin.
JUst seen that Esoteric reissued it recently. Sounds interesting so far.

This is p much the sickest thing ever imo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10a45mgMGcY

What can you say? Wow! I wish more 1970's drummers kept their solos that short n sweet. And of course his technique is absolutely phenomenal. Nice clip.

"Sunflower" by Milt Jackson, w/Ron Carter, Herbie Hancock, Freddie Hubbard, Jay Berliner and Billy Cobham: a fantastic record.

He's pretty good in the core unit band on the CTI Allstars first live lp. Tracks like Red Clay on that are really great.

Agree that he holds that group together, but Narada Michael Walden was a solid replacement. So crazy that he became this slick hitmaker. I saw Aretha Franklin this summer, and Walden was playing drums with her, and I kept thinking, huh, the same dude who did "Freeway of Love" and Whitney's "How Will I Know" was in Mahavishnu Orchestra.

"Agree that he holds that group together, but Narada Michael Walden was a solid replacement. So crazy that he became this slick hitmaker."

i'm still a little flabbergasted whenever i realize that michael tilson thomas was the guy who did the orchestral stuff on "apocalypse" (and it wasn't very good...)

Didn't expect to get into Between Nothingness & Eternity at all but I enjoyed more of it than I thought I would. Cant be bothered with getting into the rest of it right now, so I'm shelving it for now. Didn't think this was so highly thought of.

I thought one of the riffs sounded a hell of a lot like Deep Purple's "Smoke On The Water" but I guess people who know better would have made a deal of that if it really did have much resemblance.

I liked Apocalypse. Not the whole way through but the highlights are great. Last track has a kind of "You And I" feeling and the soloing at the big climax is fantastic.

But "Smile Of The Beyond" is just gorgeous. Check out this live version with a far more energetic middle portion and added drum solo with good drumming faces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjM-UQ0zVUU

That was worth waking up to.

dude can shred

hats for sporting the spiritual SG double neck look

That right there is a spiritual custom Ibanez.

aah, I see!

Visions of the Emerald Beyond is really nice

Narada Michael Walden has had a pretty interesting career starting with Mahavishnu with Aretha (Who's Zoomin Who) and Whitney Houston and many others. From the Ashram to Malibu I would suppose.

his drumming on a few songs on Fripp's "Exposure" is ferocious. NYC and Breathless are the two best songs on the album

You follow Billy Cobham, you better be able to deliver it. Those guys are/were so good, they are like superheroes.

Birds of Fire- I think it's their best, Jan Hammer expands with Moog (okay, maybe a tad cheesy, but I love it anyway)...Generally better music, IMO.

Need to poll Birds against all the other titular objects Of Fire at some point (Chariots of Fire, Wheels of Fire etc) to determine which one is the most awesome.

It could be called 'POLL of Fire'

Rhapsody of Fire
In the Line of Fire

Yeah, there's lots. I just worry that some ppl will miss the point and vote for the music they prefer.

Was McLaughlin the first real shredder?

He was probably the most technically accomplished and polished player in rock up to that time.

GW In your opinion, who was the first shredder?

SATRIANI That’s a good one. When you say “shredder,” I would say it’s probably a guy who’s not a great writer but yet can play really well. So that first wave of rock guitarists—people like Hendrix and Page and Beck and Clapton—they weren’t shredders. The fusion guys—Al Di Meola and John McLaughlin and Allan Holdsworth—were doing their own trip; they were fusion guys. So you can put them in another bag. I see shred as a metal thing—someone who listens to Di Meola, who loves the freak-out of Hendrix and the I’ll-do-whatever-I-want nature of Page, and who innocently brought it into a new era. I’m hard pressed to name that person who just played something so simple but really overdid it. [pauses] It might be Alvin Lee from Ten Years After.

( https://www.guitarworld.com/features/joe-satriani-shred-ache )

That super trill that McLaughlin plays going into some of those speedy runs sends signals up my spine. It's got an effect like sometimes when they play a filtertwist on a really distorted TB-303 in acid music.

What's an example you have in mind?

Oh the big one that has always raised neck hairs was that first run after the riff on "Meeting of the Spirits". His picking is just so super speedy and clean. It's like Dick Dale on steroids. There are plenty of that double picking on the live record, especially on "Dreams". JM does some crazy picking matching the high speed tabla runs on acoustic with Shakti.

As my garage band mind understands, some of this is McLaughlin doing his take on 'sheets of sound' by Coltrane using altered pentatonics. The one I came across was using the minor pentatonic raising the 5th up to the 6th

Ah yeah, those are magnificent.

Sounds like that’s a mode of mixolydian pentatonic, If you start from the 4th. Like the unison lines on Eternity’s Breath.

Did McLaughlin invent shredding?

The one I came across was using the minor pentatonic raising the 5th up to the 6th

I'm trying to parse this: so a minor pentatonic would be A - C - D - E - G, raising the 5th would make the E an F, so you'd just be using a different pentatonic scale (F - G - A - C - D, but favouring the A as a tonic)?

I think it was proven on another thread that Alvin Lee invented shredding, but McLaughlin sure did it faster and more accurately.

I always get Alvin Lee, Albert Lee, Albert King, and Albert Collins confused.

Of course. Surely that has come up before on some other threads

I saw one of them on The Everly Brothers tribute this weekend. Can’t be 100% sure, think it was Albert.

Albert Lee, that is.

Dick Dale invented shredding.

GW In your opinion, who was the first shredder?

SATRIANI That’s a good one. When you say “shredder,” I would say it’s probably a guy who’s not a great writer but yet can play really well. So that first wave of rock guitarists—people like Hendrix and Page and Beck and Clapton—they weren’t shredders. The fusion guys—Al Di Meola and John McLaughlin and Allan Holdsworth—were doing their own trip; they were fusion guys. So you can put them in another bag. I see shred as a metal thing—someone who listens to Di Meola, who loves the freak-out of Hendrix and the I’ll-do-whatever-I-want nature of Page, and who innocently brought it into a new era. I’m hard pressed to name that person who just played something so simple but really overdid it. [ pauses ] It might be Alvin Lee from Ten Years After.

GW I was just about to name him!

SATRIANI Yeah. And it’s totally innocent, that moment from Woodstock that everybody refers to [Ten Years After’s performance of “I’m Going Home”], because Alvin Lee is a great blues guitar player. But as a shred moment…it could be that. He might have invented the genre right there.

https://www.guitarworld.com/features/joe-satriani-shred-ache

Iirc, Satriani was a lot more positive/defensive of shred in 93 and defined it more as someone who plays what they believe in regardless of the trends or the industry (?)

someone who plays what they believe in regardless of the trends or the industry

Shredding as masturbation — you're doing it for your own pleasure, and if you care at all what other people think, you're taking the wrong approach. Of course, this also means you shouldn't do it in front of other people without asking first.

Feel Like You've Been Here Before? It Might Be Déjà Vu - Penn Medicine

The shredding at the end of "Hymn To Him" is just incredible. There has never been a film epic enough to justify using that music for the ending.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV4eOohUsAA0wbo?format=jpg&name=900x900

Whoever paid the $3.75 admission sure got their money's worth

Finally cleaned a bunch of McLaughlin records I had laying around - previously only knew the first two Mahavishnu Orchestra records - and Extrapolation and especially My Goal's Beyond are really great records. Maybe I'm soft but his shredding sounds better to me done acoustically in a more trad setting. There is a short riff on Peace Two that sounds like the underlying ascending/descending riff in Heart of the Sunrise.

do you know the Shakti stuff? acoustic fireworks!

cosined^

(i think it's his best playing)

I have never heard of Shakti. I am excited to try and find them!

They're touring soon.

https://www.shakti50.com/tour/

Another JM title to search out for acoustic fireworks is “Friday Night in San Francisco” with Al DiMeola and Paco DeLucia. It used to be one you could find on LP pretty easy as they sold a boodle of them.

First Shakti is pretty nuts especially as they do all those hyperspace unison runs with the guitar and tabla.

Somebody mentions Santana/Mclaughlin live upthread I think there was a several date tour cos I remember getting several dates about a decade back. So they must be circulating somewhere. Songs stretch out longer than on the studio lp Love,Devotion, Surrender I think by like 10 minutes in some places.

I also really like the band on the CTI Allstars live double with Billy Cobham on drums and George Benson on guitar. Pretty different feel but not sure how well known that is. Think it's a 5 piece band doing 3 or 4 numbers without a horn player amongst a bunch of other stuff with different lineups on the set. Heard it and wished there was more. Accompanied by Ron Carter on bass, Johnny Hammond keyboards and Airto on percussion. What is there is pretty long so there is something to get into but still wish there was more. On the record with the red most of a circle on the cover The California concert from 71.

Lifetime are pretty great too. I think especially as a 3 piece where they have more space to play around each other. Think the addition of a bassist makes them less fluid even if it is Jack Bruce.
Not sure how legit versions of the Village Gate set are but think it was released a few years back.

Devotion the 1970 studio lp is pretty good too. I thought I read years ago that Alan Douglas had damaged the tapes and tried out reconstructing them before release prototyping techniques used on Hendrix material notoriously a few years later. Pretty good lp though. Larry Young on keyboards as he is on the Lifetime and Santana stuff. & Buddy Miles on drums.

most of these albums are still easy find in decent condition on vinyl, they sold a lot and for whatever reason never had a hipster revival

Birds of Fire is one of my favorite albums, songs on it have been earworms for me for almost 40 years now. I bought it without knowing a thing about them other than recognizing Jan Hammer's name.

mclaughlin is one of the genuine classic artists of his time who remains pretty cheap on LP. The best of his stuff is close to miles, herbie, and some other fusion dudes who were/are his contemporaries. The one I had trouble finding for awhile was visions of the emerald beyond but I wound up getting a decent copy awhile back and it’s great.

All of JMs post 1990 records are on my list to check out at some point.

I like the two 80s Mahavisnu records especially Adventures in Radioland but it’s a totally different thing than what he’d did before. Jonas Hellborg does some cool stuff on that one (and he is an another musician I’d like to hear more…got a couple he did with Jeff Sipe and Shawn Lane).

I have checked out some videos of JM on the ‘Tube and that one with a trio with Joey DeFancisco and Elvin Jones is pretty fab, although no Marshalls like the early Mahavishnu stuff.

Adventures in Radioland is like ECM not on ECM…it’s kinda got that vibe.

The Inner Mounting Flame is str8 fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5LmOzgwW6M
The hornless lineup from the expanded CTI All-Stars California Concert with Billy Cobham on drums, George Benson on guitar which was the instrument that brought him to fame as a Wes Montgomery influenced player, Johnny Hammond on Keyboards, Airto on percussion and Ron Carter as bandleader on bass.
So this is what Cobham was doing at the stat of Mahavishnu getting material out. Do wish there was more of this, there are a couple more tracks without horns on here and the band here is the backing band elsewhere too. I think the band is a bit moe alive and definitely less string drenched than the studio recordings from the label. Picked this up on cd a decade or so ago thinking i recognised the title and quite enjoyed it when I got it home. Several longer tracks across the 2cds, 1st of which is pretty much teh lp as released in the 70s plus I think a couple of edited tracks restored to full length.

I read recently that in the '60s, Jimmy Page took a number of guitar lessons with John McLaughlin. It makes sense, McLaughlin was the only one of his peers from whom Page could have had anything to learn.

Bathed In Lightning the Colin Harper biography seemed to be pretty good

Devotion the 1970 studio lp is pretty good too.

I got around to this one this evening and I think I put it third behind Extrapolation and My Goal's Beyond. Still good.