Am I the only one who can't stand Bruce Springsteen?

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At least his music, I mean. A decent fellow from all accounts, but his music I find to be boring. Probably a fine live performer, some good lyrics buried in there, but those chiming arena rock tunes don't do it for me at all. I don't like his synth-pop or "me 'n' my guitar" stuff either.

Just wondering if I'm flying solo on this trip.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree completley. With the possible exception of "Atlantic City" off Nebraska, I've never heard anything from him that I would consider exceptional in the slightest.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i've tried very hard to enjoy anything that bruce has done but it all sounds tiresomely stadium rock. i DO like the 2 cover versions done by manfred mann's earth band, though.

― phil turnbull (philT), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i DO like the 2 cover versions done by manfred mann's earth band, though.
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Which reminds me, I saw Crooked Fingers several months ago, and they performed "Promised Land", which made Bruce's version sound positively irrelevant.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not a big fan (not very familiar) but i think "brilliant disguise" is a great song.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The only thing Crooked Fingers make sound "positively irrelevant" is Eric Bachman!

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

once again I'll state my total devotion to his synth-pop (Born In The USA, Tunnel Of Love, "Streets Of Philadelphia") but his non-blatantly commercial attempts at ROCK GLORY from the '70s (and "The Rising") all tend to be filled with painfully overwraught BAD poetry that needs to be streamlined. He's one case where the '80s synthetic demands were a good thing, cuz they forced him to EDIT.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

colin, not to be a bruce apologist, but the lyrics to "born in the usa" are not as patriotic as you might think!

cf: randy newman's "i love LA".

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah yeah, I know, it's ironic etc. So was Jimmy Barnes with his 'Working Class Man'. I understand, Gygax, but I still say he's being sentimentally patriotic, even once the irony level is grasped.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I do like Randy Newman, but. I think he sounds humbler, maybe it's the delivery.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Springsteen = yech. Vague exceptions might be made here and there but fie on him, pretty much.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't feel bad about my appreciation because I get to describe my favorite songs as Johnny Cougar meets Flock Of Seagulls, which offends most of my Boss-lovin' pals.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I would actually concur with Anthony on that I find his synth stuff *more* agreeable, if only because he's more restrained. I still don't like it, but at it doesn't sound like he's getting an enema whilst recording his vox.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

so we can accept sentiments of misguided affection and stalker intentions and lolita issues and adulterous hedonism and inescapable addiction and self-infatuation but once it's patriotic it's a no go, terrible, how could anybody write a song about that

― Millar (Millar), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

well patriotic for a country yr not of = a turn-off unless yr like a TRAITOR millar

i like springsteen mostly

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

THUNDER ROAD ROOLZ!

― Nick Hornby (kenan), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd800/d810/d81026dtos3.jpg

the purpose of this album cover was to reveal he had successfully removed the blockage, and could now walk (and sing!) freely and comfortably.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Later this year, Dave Marsh is going to have his two Bruce books reissued in one volume, along with a new chapter bringing the story up to the present day. 688 pages. Aren't you glad?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

mr marsh does like writing exceedingly long books

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I like him as a performer and bandleader (that early E Street Band stuff was so soulful and tight), and as a pop songwriter (although his lyrics I sometimes have to cop to merely liking "ironically" if I don't immediately profess disgust). Good on 'im.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll give Brooce this much: he's never written anything as terrible as "God Bless the U.S.A.", which is what immediately comes to mind when I think of patriotic tunes, sad to say.

(I don't think Brooce is overtly patriotic, though..)

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

In some ways Bruce is even worse. He's a pretty fervent liberal who refuses to speak too loudly or openly about it since it would alienate all the fans who didn't see the irony when Reagan tried to use "Born In The U.S.A." during his '84 campaign. Bruce (or at least Jon Landau) is evidently very comfortable with people mistaking him for Lee Greenwood.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I like him best as a Dylanesque trickster (the early stuff) or a Megastar cheesehound (Born in the USA) but other than that, he gets overbearing.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i like 70's Bruce a lot. the E Street Band sound is great and unique, very lush and energetic.

the sentimentality of his lyrics connects with me about as often as it makes me cringe. sometimes just feeling how much someone wants to paint a certain picture is enough to make it work. i like that kind of earnestness, when he doesn't take it too far.

I smile anytime "Rosalita" or anything off Born To Run comes on the radio. say what you want about his songwriting abilities, but shit, "Mary Queen of Arkansas", c'mon.

― Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Bruce got it wrong and thought a thousand words EQUALED a picture.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Good point, AM. I'll still take Bruce over Lee (and Bruce Lee over both), but point taken!

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

No, you're not the only one. Me too. him and Bryan Adams.

― Scaredy Cat, Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

bruce roxx u r all pedestrians

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm walking, yes indeed, I'm walkin...

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Aside from most, but not all of Nebraska, I can not stomach him. Nebraska is worthy of the recent comp that came out for the album, which while not grebt, was at least interesting. Partly because the songs I expected the least from were the runaway best.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I love his music. I really do!

― N. Ron, Tuesday, 24 June 2003 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I have been listening to Nebraska a whole lot lately.

which is funny, because I don't think it is very good.

don't worry, it doesn't make sense to me either.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Geez ... I'm starting to think that Born in the USA may be one of the most UNDERRATED albums ever, at least in certain circles, and I didn't even like it much at the time.

Anthony Miccio owns this thread, but I'll concur on his assessment:

Springsteen 80s > Springsteen 70s > Springsteen 90-present

I love "Rosalita" and "Thunder Road" but that period had more embarrassing stuff like "The poets out here don't write nothing at all/They just stand back and let it all be" and the whole West Side Storyish street-gangs-fighting-it-out-with-guitars thing. Sometimes I think Lifter Puller did Springsteenian verbosity better than Springsteen. Though I guess if I were old enough to have seen him live during the period I'd be kinder.

But Nebraska and Tunnel of Love are real good and The River has the song where he drives his girlfriend's mom to pick up her welfare check and she keeps putting her smelly feet on the dashboard -- how can you dismiss the guy who wrote that song? And Born in the USA is GRATE, one of the great driving records and probably more honest and realistic than any of his hipper records (Nebraska, Born to Run). The only catch is that most of the best songs (save "Glory Days") weren't singles.

Hate to sound all rockist, but dismissing Springsteen outright seems totally silly to me

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm curious, was Bruce the first guy to SAVE rock? Did that damn Jon Landau crap about his rock glory start the whole precedent of some rock savior meant to make the world a better place through non-stop malarkey? My god, is it BRUCE'S FAULT that Sleater-Kinney got boring?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Hate to sound all rockist, but dismissing Springsteen outright seems totally silly to me

Dismissing Springsteen is alot easier to do if your not American nor give a shit about New Jersey. I have no clue what he was saving rock from cause to me he was one of the people that it needed to be saved from. Maybe Im just mixed up, cause I feel no vibe from Boomtown Rats either, another band I should get that warm fuzzy 80s rock saving feeling from.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr Noodles, no-one in England gets a vibe from The Boomtown Rats. Besides, they were Irish. Poms get a vibe from The Buzzcocks. Anyway, your point is true enough. The same could be said for every nation's Bruce equivalent (and every nation has one).

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:14 (twenty-two years ago)

where's the Australian "I'm on Fire" so I can download it

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:16 (twenty-two years ago)

it's called "I'd die to be with you tonight"

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I like about 2/3 of Nebraska and what I've heard off of Tom Joad. But I can't stand the rest of his stuff.

If I want '80s pop-rock Americana, I choose John Cougar Mellencamp.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:17 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hell Ain't A Bad Place To Be" - AC/DC

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:17 (twenty-two years ago)

"I'm on Fire" > Tunnel of Love > Uh Huh > Nebraska > Scarecrow > Born in the USA

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Hate to sound all rockist, but dismissing Springsteen outright seems totally silly to me

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I wouldn't say I'm dismissing him as saying that everything I've ever heard by him either makes me ill or shrug my shoulders and switch stations.

What does "rockist" mean, anyway? I've seen that word around here almost as much as variations on the word "parse", but I'm not sure about the meaning. "Rock is better than all" or something along those lines?

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - get ready

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

ham on rye, how do you stand on "indie guilt"?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

please say "on its throat"

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

All these new terms being thrown at me. Your new world frightens and confuses me. But I do know this: indie guilt is for people too concerned with labels and not enough with music.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

ham on rye is my new favourite person

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 02:53 (twenty-two years ago)

haha

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Geez ... I'm starting to think that Born in the USA may be one of the most UNDERRATED albums ever, at least in certain circles, and I didn't even like it much at the time.

I loved it at the time, but I was 10. Even more amazingly, I love it now. The synths were fabulous in the 80's, really colorful punctuation, and then became cheesy in the 90's. I think it's time to let the "cheesy" synth back in again.

Nebraska is a fantastic mood piece. No better album has been made for driving through the midwest in the dark.

Born to Run rocks, it's true, but I never got into Bruce's 70's stuff as much. I have no affinity for working class heroes, and most of his lyrics from back then have about as much depth as "Livin' on a Prayer."

Tunnel of Love is half a masterpiece. "Brilliant Disguise" and "One Step Up" and "When You're Alone" and "Valentine's Day" are some of the most affecting, plain-spoken and meditative songs about love I've ever heard.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn you all for making me pull out Bruce when I was so happily listening to TNT. Hell, maybe you did me a favor.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 03:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah yeah, I know, it's ironic etc.

Not ironic, no. Irony isn't really Bruce's thing. I know "Born in the USA" has been debated to death, but I think the song is fascinating. On the lyric and vocal level, it's nothing but rage and despair. I mean, from "end up like a dog that's been beat too much" to "nowhere to run, ain't got nowhere to go," there is zero room for reading sentimentality of any kind into it. It's essentially a portrait of a homeless Vietnam vet who's been screwed by his country at least three different ways. On the other hand (and hence the confusion), there's that barrelling ballpark organ, that boom-crash beat, and the over-the-top "keep it goin, keep it goin, 1-2-3-4" coda, all of which make you want to hear as some sort of affirmation. I think the tension between the lyric and the music is deliberate (that's why he didn't release the acoustic version, even though it would have fit fine on Nebraska and nobody would have mistaken it for patriotic). And I think the tension is what makes it a pitch-perfect portrait of Reagan America, the clash between myth and reality. But if you don't hear the tension, you're basically only hearing the myth. Reagan, of course, didn't hear the tension. But it's hardly Bruce's job to explain art to the president.

I love him, obviously. For me, the key threesome is Darkness on the Edge of Town-The River-Nebraska, with Nebraska standing out from the rest. The title track alone is (ahem, imo, coff coff) hands down one of the 20 greatest American pop lyrics of the 20th century. Or, OK, maybe 50 greatest. Great, anyway. "You be sure my pretty baby is sittin' right there on my lap" -- I mean, jesus. And he sounds like he means it.

I think Bruce tends to be misunderstood by both his fans and his detractors. He's way more interesting than either of them will allow.

― JesseFox (JesseFox), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

(Which is why The Rising was so weak -- it was Bruce trying to be BROOOCE, because he thought that's what the moment called for. Now that was sentimental. But I don't hold it against him. I just don't listen to it.)

― JesseFox (JesseFox), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

The streetgangs fighting with guitars stuff is why Bruce is good! Romanticism > Realism EVERY TIME!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 07:28 (twenty-two years ago)

"brilliant disguise" rox u r all heavy handed.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 07:51 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i now want to start a dave q-style TS: the boss vs the rats EXCEPT THEY ARE TOTALLY THE SAME THING SO HOW CD YOU CHOOSE!!
"She's so... 20th century!" vs "Candy's Room"

(cf the smiths = guns'n'roses for similar EXACTLY THE SAME THING)

lady if you don't understand this blah blah

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr Blount, if you're looking for the Aussie equivalent of Bruce Springsteen you might like to try Cold Chisel or Jimmy Barnes solo (Cold Chisel was his former band). Gaz, Jim, have I got this right? Or is there a better match?

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 10:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I like a lot of Bruce's stuff, especially "Darlington County." But this is one of my favorite quotes about him, attributed to Curt Kirkwood of the Meat Puppets:
"I'm trying to deflate the idea that somebody like Bruce Springsteen isn't incredibly avant-garde. I may not listen to his music very much, but it sure is weird to me."

― Jim M (jmcgaw), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 11:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't stand him as a musician and the whole canoe thing makes me question how nice a man he is.

― mei (mei), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I find him appalling. He sums up everything that is bombastic and aggressively, partriotically sentimental about the U.S. Frankly, I believe that 'Born in the USA' is the soundtrack for the apocalypse. Every country has a Bruce Springsteen. In Australia he's called Jimmy Barnes.
Um...you do know that he kept trying to PREVENT the Republicans from using his song for pseudo-patriotic purposes? Besides... a song that starts out:
Born down in a dead mans town/ The first kick I got is when I hit the ground/ You end up like a dog that's been beat too much/ and you spend half your life tryin' to cover it up/
is hardly a patriotic anthem.
In fact, the entire song is a very pungent indictment of the Reagan Era.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

What does "rockist" mean, anyway?

I so want to say RTFFAQ but we never did fill that one in. Instead use the search function.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

ahem :(

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

SEARCH: Cover of Jimmy Cliff's "Trapped" on We Are the World LP!

― Possum Slimm (Possumslimm), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Lord Custos, being anti Republican doesn't mean you can't be a patriot. He's an underdog patriot, but still very patriotic. The underdog move is a classic tactic for the closet xenophobe.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 26 June 2003 00:30 (twenty-two years ago)

patriotism /= xenophobia

you still haven't told me what the australian "I'm on Fire" is

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 June 2003 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

patriotism /= nationalism

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 June 2003 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I did, Blount! "Hell Ain't A Bad Place To Be" is the Australian "I'm On Fire." If you meant sonically and not lyrically, I'll say "Overkill" by Men At Work.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 26 June 2003 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean sonically and lyrically - I want Johnny Cash + awkward sex angst + synth + more Johnny Cash

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 June 2003 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

+ Australia! Good luck.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 26 June 2003 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

where's the Australian "I'm on Fire" so I can download it
-- James Blount (littlejohnnyjewe...), June 25th, 2003 11:16 AM. (later)
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it's called "I'd die to be with you tonight"
-- electric sound of jim (electricsoun...), June 25th, 2003 11:17 AM. (later)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 26 June 2003 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

who duz it who duz it

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 June 2003 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

jimmy barnes natch

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 26 June 2003 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks Jim. I knew you'd know the answer to this one.

Relation b/w patriotism and xenophobia is as follows.

Patriotism = my country first

Xenophobia = every other country last

It is impossible to be a patriot without being a xenophobe. They are definitionally inextricable.

Loving your country, alone, doesn't make you a patriot. To be a true patriot you need bombast, flags, righteous anger and a mythological view of your country's destiny.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 26 June 2003 01:14 (twenty-two years ago)

It is impossible to be a patriot without being a xenophobe. They are definitionally inextricable.

Here's some literary food for thought that might shed light on this painfully narrow definition of Patriotism.

I cannot ask for your trust any longer, either, having put you in jeopardy. I forgot what a king is, forgot that the king in his own eyes is Karhide, forgot what patriotism is and that he is, of necessity, the perfect patriot. Let me ask you this, Mr. Ai: do you know, by your own experience, what patriotism is?" "No," I said, shaken by the force of that intense personality suddenly turning itself wholly upon me. "I don't think I do. If by patriotism you don't mean the love of one's homeland, for that I do know." "No, I don't mean love, when I say patriotism. I mean fear. The fear of the other. And its expressions are political, not poetical: hate, rivalry, aggression. It grows in us, that fear. It grows in us year by year.

- The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K LeGuin

Above is a quote from early in the book where one of the protagonists clarifies the blinkered philistine pig-ignorance of the government for which he works.
And just like the backward government of Karhide, Colin is supporting an idea whose time has passed. Patriotism is a Virtue. Xenophobia is a personality flaw. They sometimes look the same but are opposites.
One of the major points of that book was that the villians were Xenophobes pretending to be Patriots, and the heroes genuine Patriots who did great deeds which *seemed* unpatriotic or treasonous, but turned out to be good.
I honestly believe it is possible to love one's county *and* have hope for a better future. Colin's assertion that a patriot and a xenophobe are inextricable is a dark lie that has be destroyed if we (both Humanity in general and Americans/Westerners in particular) are to survive.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 26 June 2003 01:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually I had a problem once about not being able to stand Bruce Springsteen. Dude kept falling over.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Thursday, 26 June 2003 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Loving your country, alone, doesn't make you a patriot. To be a true patriot you need bombast, flags, righteous anger and a mythological view of your country's destiny.
No, the bombast, etc...is what needs to be done away with. All that Nuremburg Rally pageantry is exactly what is wrong with the narrow-minded hobgoblins and their caveman ideologies.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 26 June 2003 01:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Dictionary.com to thread.

xenophobia - n : a fear of foreigners or strangers

na·tion·al·ism - n.
1. Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.
2. The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
3. Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.

pa·tri·ot·ism - n. : Love of and devotion to one's country.

That oughta clear up half of this debate right there. I don't mean to be pedantic but... oh, who am I kidding. That's exactly what I mean to do.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 26 June 2003 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

keep doing it, esp. when colin s. barrow is around

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 26 June 2003 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

See. Subtle shades of meaning.
Patriots can become nationalists and then Xenophobes, but they don't HAVE to.
I think one of the big deals with 'steenHeads is they (think|know) he is a patriot without being a nationalist or xenophobe.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 26 June 2003 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

(xpost)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 26 June 2003 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

As Mark Twain said, "The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice--and always has been."

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Thursday, 26 June 2003 02:42 (twenty-two years ago)

As Anton Chekov said, "How little justice and humility there is in us, how poorly we understand patriotism!"

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 June 2003 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

The challenge is to separate Springsteen the singer-songwriter from Pareles and Marsh and everyone else who wants to uphold him as the Great Voice of the American Working Class.

In my opinion the best of 80s Springsteen constitutes arena rock at its best, although said work is still rather feh.

― j.lu (j.lu), Friday, 27 June 2003 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

three years pass...

lol @ patriotism beef
springsteen's been getting love from hipster types lately it seems

― gershy, Sunday, 13 May 2007 05:39 (nineteen years ago)

As Samuel Johnson said, 'Patriotism is the last refuge of the soundrel'. But I think a more cogent argument against Colin is to point out that Bruce may not be a patriot at all, and that his lyrics are deeply ambivalent about whether that's a good thing or not. Sure, those lyrics have often been co-opted as slogans by patriots.

― moley, Sunday, 13 May 2007 06:05 (nineteen years ago)

My terrible English teacher made us study "My Hometown." "Talk about the rhetorical devices that make this such a powerful and wonderful piece."

(She considers him to be one of the greatest poets ever.)

My response was something along the lines of: "He uses absolutely breathtaking repition of these wonderful, mundane words to create a sense of understanding...this palpable knowing, this true emotion, OH, it's just so, so magical."

Her: YES!

― Tape Store, Sunday, 13 May 2007 06:16 (nineteen years ago)

as an acquaintance once said about mr. springsteen, when asked to explain his indifference to The Boss, "he sings about and for the people who in high school would've called me a 'faggot' and beaten me up."

that said -- i do like some of his songs, and i think that the wild, the innocent, and the e-street shuffle is genuinely great (that record always makes me think that, at least early on, bruce was a closet yes-fan -- DEFINITELY some prog influence going on there).

― Eisbaer, Sunday, 13 May 2007 06:32 (nineteen years ago)

Here's hoping someone who went to a real highschool can give me some insight into this - but why does so much taste in music for adults seem to surround their experiences in highschool? Certainly your acquaintance has had positive experiences since which would allow him to appreciate Springsteen, right?

― Mordechai Shinefield, Sunday, 13 May 2007 06:42 (nineteen years ago)

Springsteen has been sort of rehabilitated lately after seeming like a thing of the past for quite some time.

Personally I quite like him, but I don't understand those people who adore him endlessly. Personall, the only stuff I really like is the stadium rock. (This also included synth-based songs such as "Dancing In The Dark"). When he slows down and tunes down the arrangements it becomes very boring, and there are lots of other people who do the singer-songwriter-bedsitter thing way better than him.

― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 13 May 2007 10:43 (nineteen years ago)

but why does so much taste in music for adults seem to surround their experiences in highschool?

the answer: rolling teenpop thread

― m coleman, Sunday, 13 May 2007 11:24 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, "Dancing In the Dark" is pretty great. I was surprised no one had mentioned it yet. I love Manfred Mann's cover of "Blinded By the Light", too. Other than that, I'm indifferent.

(xp)

― The Reverend, Sunday, 13 May 2007 11:55 (nineteen years ago)

but why does so much taste in music for adults seem to surround their experiences in highschool?

because there exists a huge chunk of people in the united states who believe that the high school years were the most important years of their lives. this holds equally true for the 40-year-old ex-jock who still talks about scoring the game-winning touchdown AND the 40-year-old ex-hardcore kid who still talks about the jocks who picked on him when he was 18... or about how awesome that government issue show was at the polish-american hall.

― QuantumNoise, Sunday, 13 May 2007 11:55 (nineteen years ago)

in his excellent book This Is Your Brain On Music author and cognitive psychologist Daniel Levitin maps out the neurological basis for musical tastes being formed in childhood, solidifying in adolescence and peaking in early adulthood. which isn't to deny the sociological influence, high school looms large over american adulthood no kidding, but Levitin's clear explanations and experience as a musician himself will expand your understanding of how we percieve and process music.

oh and springsteen wrote lots of songs about teens at least early on

― m coleman, Sunday, 13 May 2007 12:35 (nineteen years ago)

rock criticz always loved the "highschool poet" aspect of bruce's art

Remember P.F. Sloan? Sure you do. It was back when every folk rocker worth his harmonica holder was flushed with Dylan fever and seeing how many syllables he could cram into every involuted couplet. There was Tandyn Almer, of "Along Comes Mary" fame ("The psychodramas and the traumas hung on the scars of the stars in the bars and cars -- something like that), and David Blue had his own Highway 61 too, but absolutely none of 'em could beat ol' P.F. He started out writing surf songs, but shook the world by the throat with his masterpieces "Eve Of Destruction" and "Sins of a Family," and all his best material was just brimming with hate.

Boy howdy, the first thing the world needs is a P.F. Sloan for 1973, and you can start revving up yer adrenaline, kids, because he's here in the person of Bruce Springsteen. Old Bruce makes a point of letting us know that he's from one of the scuzziest, most useless and plain uninteresting sections of Jersey. He's been influenced a lot by the Band, his arrangements tend to take on a Van Morrison tinge every now and then, and he sort of catarrh-mumbles his ditties in a disgruntled mushmouth sorta like Robbie Robertson on Quaaludes with Dylan barfing down the back of his neck. It's a tuff combination, but it's only the beginning.

Because what makes Bruce totally unique and cosmically surfeiting is his words. Hot damn, what a passel o' verbiage! He's got more of them crammed into this album than any other record released this year, but it's all right because they all fit snug, it ain't like Harry Chapin tearing rightangle malapropisms out of his larynx. What's more, each and every one of 'em has at least one other one here that it rhymes with. Some of 'em can mean something socially or otherwise, but there's plenty of 'em that don't even pretend to, reveling in the joy of utter crass showoff talent run amuck and totally out of control:

"Madman drummers bummers and Indians in the summer with a teenage diplomat/In the dumps with the mumps as the adolescent pumps his way into his hat" begins the very first song, and after that things just keep getting more breathtakingly complicated. You might think it's some kinda throwback, but it's really bracing as hell because it's obvious that B.S. don't give a shit. He slingshoots his random rivets at you and you can catch as many as you want or let 'em all clatter right off the wall which maybe's where they belong anyway. Bruce Springsteen is a bold new talent with more than a mouthful to say, and one look at the pic on the back will tell you he's got the glam to go places in this Gollywoodlawn world to boot. Watch for him; he's not the new John Prine.

LESTER BANGS

― m coleman, Sunday, 13 May 2007 12:49 (nineteen years ago)

yeah but that's the first record, right? which is pretty great.

― Mr. Que, Sunday, 13 May 2007 12:52 (nineteen years ago)

Bruce's mindless rave-upss are great though! "I'm Goin' Down" is, like, one of the best songs about cunnilingus ever.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 13 May 2007 12:55 (nineteen years ago)

In my green and youthful bluster
Bruce could do no wrong
I saw the whole universe
In every trumped-up song

Now that I am older
I still like his stuff
But now I go more track-by-track
Cause some of them are duff

― Dimension 5ive, Sunday, 13 May 2007 13:07 (nineteen years ago)

When I was in high school, I strongly disliked most of the music in the hitlists. I was sort of already kind of bitter, longing back to the great synthpop and new romantic stuff that had dominated the hitlists when I was around 11-12 years old in 82-83.

― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 13 May 2007 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

Jesus Christ! I am old enough to be Geir's father.

― M.V., Sunday, 13 May 2007 14:08 (nineteen years ago)

n.b.: when i was in high school (1984-1988), bruce springsteen was one of the biggest pop stars in the world. also, i went to high school in new jersey -- a little less than an hour from bruce's old stomping grounds (which nowadays are a regular run-of-the-mill new jersey suburb as opposed to some springsteen-esque blue collar/factory-town dump). and yes, this acquaintance is a late 30s-something ex-hardcore kid.

have fun, ILM sociologists! ;-)

― Eisbaer, Sunday, 13 May 2007 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

Dude, your friend sounds like a pussy.

― milo z, Sunday, 13 May 2007 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

Dude, your friend sounds like a pussy.

maybe. anyway, he was just explaining why he doesn't relate to springsteen or his music.

― Eisbaer, Sunday, 13 May 2007 14:23 (nineteen years ago)

I actually thing Born in the U.S.A. is a great album. *ducks*

― Jazzbo, Sunday, 13 May 2007 14:27 (nineteen years ago)

"Born In The USA" remains the greatest thing he ever did.

― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 13 May 2007 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

as an acquaintance once said about mr. springsteen, when asked to explain his indifference to The Boss, "he sings about and for the people who in high school would've called me a 'faggot' and beaten me up."

Except, he sings about them when they get out of high school and are stuck in dead end jobs, driving around wondering why they're alive and wishing they were back in high school. It would seem like your friend would LIKE these songs.

― filthy dylan, Sunday, 13 May 2007 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

my feelings for bruce are similar to my feelings for the clash. i like the hits (and in some cases LOVE the hits). i like hearing them on the radio. i like seeing live footage (loved the hbo concert that bruce did a while back and the pbs live in london circa born to run show) i have no desire to play their albums.

― scott seward, Sunday, 13 May 2007 14:49 (nineteen years ago)

Bruce rules, people. Come on. I'm from New Jersey so there's definitely some bias, but for crying out loud, he's the friggin' Boss!

His best song: The Promised Land
Best album: Born In The USA

― kornrulez6969, Sunday, 13 May 2007 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

T/S: Bruce "The Boss" Springsteen vs. Ross The Boss

― Jon Lewis, Sunday, 13 May 2007 15:17 (nineteen years ago)

Debut albums by both Springsteen and the Dictators had lines rhyming "growing up" with "throwing up," so that comparison actually makes a lot of sense!

― xhuxk, Sunday, 13 May 2007 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

Anyway, basically here's what I think:

I love '70s Bruce a lot.
I like early '80s to mid '80s Bruce just fine.
I have almost no use for Bruce from the late '80s on (with very rare exceptions like "Streets of Philadelphia" and, well, "Streets of Philadelphia.")

― xhuxk, Sunday, 13 May 2007 15:22 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, but do you ever play Clash albums?

― scott seward, Sunday, 13 May 2007 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

Bruce rocks! "Blinded By the Light"! "Rosalita"! "Incident on 57th Street"!

― Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 13 May 2007 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

Ha ha, also:

I love '70s Clash a lot.
I like early '80s Clash just fine.
I have almost no use for Clash from the mid '80s on (including their solo records, that is.)

― xhuxk, Sunday, 13 May 2007 15:43 (nineteen years ago)

Not even "This is England"?

― JN$OT, Sunday, 13 May 2007 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

I had an epiphany last night and realized that The Arcade Fire are basically emo Springsteen.

― darin, Sunday, 13 May 2007 17:59 (nineteen years ago)

"springsteen's been getting love from hipster types lately it seems"

...goes along with the OTM just above about Arcade Fire. Especially the fucking Killers, who seem to have mistaken Springsteen's (deadly dull, in my humble) earnestness as the key to making "serious" records.

I'd like Springsteen more if he weren't so frequently so fucking boring, along with the vast majority of these neu-Steens that seem to come out of the woodwork just long enough to compose a press pack that talks about their authenticity and Rust Belt charm.

― I eat cannibals, Sunday, 13 May 2007 18:22 (nineteen years ago)

I find him insufferable on the whole. I like Darkness on the Edge of Town, Nebraska, and especially The Wild, The Innocent and the E Street Shuffle, but only in small doses. I, like many upthread, have a great many friends who think he's just wonderful. I find that his arrangements and awful production ruin perfectly good songs all the time. I mean, enough with the fucking saxophones fer chrissakes.

Every time I hear him and start to think, 'Hey, this sounds a little like Dylan!' the other side of my brain goes 'Hey - this also sounds a little like Billy Joel.'

I think that's Bruce in a nutshell.

― Manalishi, Sunday, 13 May 2007 18:28 (nineteen years ago)

i do love the song born to run. i'm a fan of rocky horror rock, mudrock, do the strand, paradise by the dashboard light, bonnie tyler, and john "bowzer" bauman.

― scott seward, Sunday, 13 May 2007 18:34 (nineteen years ago)

love this guy too. he had it all:

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MG/194489~Eddie-and-the-Cruisers-Posters.jpg

― scott seward, Sunday, 13 May 2007 18:38 (nineteen years ago)

what the? cousin larry?

http://www.gapersblock.com/detour/gfx/03122004_eddie.jpg

― scott seward, Sunday, 13 May 2007 18:39 (nineteen years ago)

pauline kael was a big mark linn-baker fan.

― scott seward, Sunday, 13 May 2007 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

big BROOS on the spring STEEN

― gershy, Sunday, 13 May 2007 19:13 (nineteen years ago)

What's more, each and every one of 'em has at least one other one here that it rhymes with. Some of 'em can mean something socially or otherwise, but there's plenty of 'em that don't even pretend to, reveling in the joy of utter crass showoff talent run amuck and totally out of control:

so bruce was basically a rapper.

― fact checking cuz, Sunday, 13 May 2007 19:22 (nineteen years ago)

Wizard imps and sweat sock pimps, interstellar mongrel nymphs
Rex said that lady left him limp. Love's like that (sure it is).
Queen of diamonds, ace of spades, newly discovered lovers of the everglades
They take out a full page ad in the trades to announce their arrival
And Mary Lou she found out how to cope, she rides to heaven on a gyroscope
The Daily News asks her for the dope
She says "Man, the dope's that there's still hope".

― scott seward, Sunday, 13 May 2007 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

his worst trait, which has grown more and more glaring over the years: his appallingly unimaginable, predictable and just plain awful arrangements. first verse quiet and spare, maybe a "stately" roy bittan keyboard pad, leaden drums then kick in along with big acoustic guitar strum, some organ of course, and whatever else it tells you to do on the first page of the mid-tempo singer/songwriter bible.

his most underrated trait: his kick-ass lead guitar playing (which is consistently better sounding and more fun and more emotionaql than anything any of his proper lead guitar players ever play).

― fact checking cuz, Sunday, 13 May 2007 19:27 (nineteen years ago)

Madman drummers bummers and Indians in the summer with a teenage diplomat
In the dumps with the mumps as the adolescent pumps his way into his hat
With a boulder on my shoulder feelin' kinda older I tripped the merry-go-round
With this very unpleasing sneezing and wheezing the calliope crashed to the ground
Some all-hot half-shot was headin' for the hot spot snappin' his fingers clappin' his hands
And some fleshpot mascot was tied into a lover's knot with a whatnot in her hand
And now young Scott with a slingshot finally found a tender spot and throws his lover in the sand
And some bloodshot forget-me-not whispers daddy's within earshot save the buckshot turn up the band

― scott seward, Sunday, 13 May 2007 19:30 (nineteen years ago)

Some silicone sister with her manager's mister told me I got what it takes
She said I'll turn you on sonny, to something strong if you play that song with the funky break,
And go-cart Mozart was checkin' out the weather chart to see if it was safe to go outside
And little Early-Pearly came in by her curly-wurly and asked me if I needed a ride,
Oh, some hazard from Harvard was skunked on beer playin' backyard bombardier
Yes and Scotland Yard was trying hard, they sent a dude with a calling card,
he said, do what you like, but don't do it here
Well I jumped up, turnedaround, spit in the air, fell on the ground
Asked him which was the way back home
He said take a right at the light, keep goin' straight until night, and then boy, you're on your own

― scott seward, Sunday, 13 May 2007 19:31 (nineteen years ago)

She sits on the porch of her daddy's house
But all her pretty dreams are torn
She stares off alone into the night
With the eyes of one who hates for just being born

The alternative version with the harmonica is amazing.

Best thing about Springsteen is Steel Mill though.

― MRZBW, Monday, 14 May 2007 00:44 (nineteen years ago)

Steel Mill? That's commercial bullshit. The best Springsteen is the Castiles, or even better, his junior high guitar lessons.

― kornrulez6969, Monday, 14 May 2007 00:52 (nineteen years ago)

"his most underrated trait: his kick-ass lead guitar playing"

i agree! is it tunnel of love where he rips the killer solo? i like his guitar-playing too.

― scott seward, Monday, 14 May 2007 01:10 (nineteen years ago)

His "Cover Me" solo is pretty great too.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 14 May 2007 01:39 (nineteen years ago)

My attitude toward Springsteen used to hover somewhere between apathy and mild hostility, but a few weeks ago "Born to Run" came on the local 70's/80's radio station and it just clicked. Don't know what it was, but all of a sudden I can't get enough- I'll probably start picking up some of his bigger albums soon. It's the same thing that happened to me with Neil Young (the one-two punch of "My My Hey Hey"/"Hey Hey My My" off of Rust Never Sleeps) and Fleetwood Mac (TUSK!), where one massive song becomes the tipping point that completely reverses my opinion of an artist I never liked.

― Telephone thing, Monday, 14 May 2007 01:54 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, and Brooce is a huge Suicide fan, too, which helps.

― Telephone thing, Monday, 14 May 2007 01:55 (nineteen years ago)

bruce's sexiness is an underappreciated trait. there's a lot of horniness in there. "pink cadillac" is one of the few great car-as-pussy songs ("little red corvette" the obvious other one). "i'm on fire" is pretty hot. and the whole structure of "born to run" is serious foreplay almost-almost-almost right up to the big orgasmic breakdown (from where it coasts into post-coital cuddle). oh, and "candy's room."

― tipsy mothra, Monday, 14 May 2007 06:47 (nineteen years ago)

(candy's room)

― tipsy mothra, Monday, 14 May 2007 06:56 (nineteen years ago)

The way to tell Scott Seward from Dan Bunnybrains— Scott posts gibberish Springsteen lyrics for comic effect... in the Springsteen thread.

If I saw those anywhere else, I'd look for Dan's handle.

― I eat cannibals, Monday, 14 May 2007 07:55 (nineteen years ago)

(candy's room)

speaking of nice, compact, ripping gtr solos! and notice that even the little lead fills during the verses are being played by the boss, not the consigliere standing to his left.

― fact checking cuz, Monday, 14 May 2007 17:52 (nineteen years ago)

Steel Mill? That's commercial bullshit. The best Springsteen is the Castiles, or even better, his junior high guitar lessons.

Let's settle on Dr Zoom.

― MRZBW, Monday, 14 May 2007 17:59 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, and Brooce is a huge Suicide fan, too, which helps.

that explains the new-wave power of "Dancing in the Dark"

― QuantumNoise, Monday, 14 May 2007 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

"dancing in the dark(wave)" was the original title.

― QuantumNoise, Monday, 14 May 2007 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

"Born In The USA" remains the greatest thing he ever did.

It's very disconcerting when I agree with Geir.

― Jazzbo, Monday, 14 May 2007 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

I dont hate the "Boss" but he's grossly over rated, largely due to the corporate rock whores who helped create him...

― Tinky-Winky, Monday, 14 May 2007 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

"Born In The USA" remains the greatest thing he ever did.

It's very disconcerting when I agree with Geir.

what's odder is that geir's favorite springsteen song has ONLY ONE CHORD! (well, almost two, but you can still play that one chord against the other)

― Lawrence the Looter, Monday, 14 May 2007 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

I hear Eddie and the Cruisers in the Arcade Fire (and that's a good thing! yuk yuk)

― bnw, Monday, 14 May 2007 20:05 (nineteen years ago)

XP I was speaking of the album not the song.

"Born In The USA" has two chords though. Still way too little, but there's a lot of energy. But not among the best songs on that album.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:01 (nineteen years ago)

Oh yeah, "Pink Cadillac". Great, too.

― The Reverend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 15:13 (nineteen years ago)

I've come to peace that the only Bruce I enjoy listening to is the early, pre-Born to Run stuff. Ouch!

― iago g., Wednesday, 16 May 2007 00:54 (nineteen years ago)

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/boorn-in-teh-usa_r.jpg

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

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