It's Official RIAA To SUE P2P Users. Could It Be You?

P2P WILL *NEVER* DIE, YOU HOPELESS KKKORPORATE FUCKNUGGETS! SO SPEAKS CUSTOS! KNEEEEEL BEFORE MY AUGUST GLORY, YOU GUCCI-WEARING RECORD COMPANY LEGAL DEPARTMENT MAGGOTS!
(*Logs onto WinMX in another window.*)

FOOLISH MORTAL,
YOU DIDN'T BARGAIN ON THE POWER OF WinMX, DID YA? HUH!? HUH!? *HHHUNNH*!?
NOW I SHALL RECIEVE ALLLL OF ROBBIE WILLIAMS ESCAPOLOGY...NOT BECAUSE I WANT TO...BUT JUST BECAUSE I *CAN*
TRY AND STOP ME!

....

SEE YOU COULDN'T STOP ME! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
INSIGNIFICANT INSECT!
(*Bitchslaps the RIAA*)
BEGONE!

let's all look forward to the bankrupcy of the riaa.

Let's see...that's $150,000 per copyright violation; they're going after the "heaviest" users and lots of people on S0ulS33k have well over 1,000 MP3s on their system, they say they're going to be prosecuting "thousands" of people. So, by a very modest esimate, they'll be seeking a total of about $150 billion in damages.

Part of me think this is probably a bit of a hard-assed rhetoric; they're going scare people first, see how much that curbs p2p usage, then sue the proper number of people accordingly. Probably not in the "thousands."

If it is going to be "thousands," I think it's definitely possible that one morning I'll wake up and notice a couple panicked threads where people say "OMIGOD I'VE JUST BEEN SUED FOR HALF A BILLION DOLLARS." Or (keep telling yourself this, Mike) maybe we're not the type of people they want to go after: we're reasonably articulate, usually adults, and have connections to the 'critical' side of the media. Or...fuck, who knows?

I seriously wonder if people will start firebombing record stores after people get sued.

C'mon people...talk me down from this.

maybe this is just their new business model.

Soulseek has a centralized *chat* server. Searches are distributed across clients since the server upgrade.

So I take this to mean that a) do what we say and nobody gets hurt (starting now, if you play nice, we won't sue) and b) we'll be prosecuting people who make their collections available to others, not to those who download from others. WTF?

You know, before downloading music was just about accessing music. Now it's like I'm making a political statement about what a bunch of cunts the RIAA is. I'll be downloading 2x as much now. Bring it.

it's easier to prove that you shared than that you downloaded because many folks have a lot of legal mp3s on their computer. i do. i have about 100 albums of stuff that was either freely given, i copied under fair use, or i bought via emusic. the riaa can't just take a copy of the contents of my hard drive and go "ah ha!" it's not that simple.

but if i fired up soulseek and shared those files, it's easy to prove that i'm assisting in copyright theft.

it's mainly an easier way to solidify proof.
m.

Richard Carpenter, legendary songwriter and producer said: “One of the many aspects of this issue that is so troubling, is the cavalier fashion in which so many approach it, as if it just isn't serious business. It is of course...It's theft, plain and simple; and we need to do all that we can to see that it stops!”

Missy Elliott, writer, producer, rapper, and singer: "Hip Hop has always been about the attainable dream - about running your own business, your own club, your own fanzine. Turning your back on the bootleggers helps us pave the way for the next generation of entrepreneurs. We do our best to bring you the latest, hottest beats, and we appreciate it when our fans show their love and respect by going in that record store and buying the finished product."

Eve, multi-Platinum Grammy award winning artist: “We work really hard. We love our fans and we appreciate the love, but don't steal from us, support us. Go in the stores and buy the records.”

Brooks & Dunn, multi-Platinum country music artists said, "We want the next Brooks & Dunn to have a chance. Piracy hurts that chance. There are a lot of really talented hardworking people making music. For them it's a job... If music gets stolen, it's hard for them to continue. So help us ensure the future of good music."

Shakira, Grammy-Winning Latin Pop Artist: "Making an album is a team effort, so when somebody pirates a record that not only affects the artist, but also the people who worked on it like co-producers, co-writers and musicians. Say no to piracy."

Mandy Moore, Platinum award winning artist: “While I admit that what I do for a living is a dream come true, it's still a job and how I make a living. Illegally downloading music is the same thing as asking an artist to truly work 100 percent for free. I spend a great deal of time and money on charities, but at the end of the day I would expect and hope to be compensated fairly for my work. It's not a lot to ask for.”

The Dixie Chicks, Grammy award winning and two-time Diamond award recipients said, "It may seem innocent enough, but every time you illegally download music a songwriter doesn't get paid. And, every time you swap that music with your friends a new artist doesn't get a chance. Respect the artists you love by not stealing their music. You're in control. Support music, don't steal it."

Peter Gabriel, Grammy award winning multi-Platinum artist: "In some ways we are the canary down the mine, the first battle ground, but behind us goes anyone who creates anything that can be turned into data whether its software, films pictures or music. Do people who create material have entitlement to get royalties? That's a bigger question for society. I would argue that you would get better range, better quality and better choice if you do pay the creator something. We live in the luxury of the in between world at the moment where some people pay for the records while others get it for free. It is the part of it that is the market stall, and at a certain point there will be less fruit on the stall if there's no money coming in.”

Sheryl Crow, Grammy award winning singer/songwriter: “Good music isn't easy to come by. Musicians spend their entire lives perfecting their craft and honing their skills. Unfortunately, everyone has to make a living. If musicians had to work ‘day jobs’ to support themselves and their families, they wouldn't have time or energy to be creative. Music fans cannot expect their favorite musicians to continue to produce quality albums if they are not willing to pay. People, including musicians, expect to be rewarded for a job well done. It's all about supply and demand. If there is not demand, there will eventually be no supply.”

Vanessa Carlton, singer/songwriter, “A Thousand Miles” and Platinum artist for “Be Not Nobody”: “I think it's great that there are even more avenues today to expose music and new artists. And I'm all for getting a taste of something before you buy it, but when it becomes more than a taste and people begin hoarding the entire work, it becomes piracy which results in a system in which artists are not being rewarded for their works. Works which they put everything they have into creating and then working their asses off to support and promote.”

Art Alexakis, lead singer of Everclear: "I think the fact that they are stealing recorded music is something that we have to stop. It's taking money out of my kid's mouth. That's the way I look at it. It's wrong. It's inherently wrong. It's stealing."

Mary J. Blige, multi-Platinum award winning artist: “If you create something and then someone takes it without your permission, that is stealing. It may sound harsh, but it is true.”

Musiq, Singer, multi-Platinum award winning artist, “AIJUSWANASEING” and “Juslisen”: "I think that people do need to be educated on the seriousness of music piracy because it cuts into hard working people’s money, especially the artists-people like me. So, it catches my attention. I don’t think that it’s cool, because if I’m putting in all of this work to see all of these returns and I don’t see the full capacity of my returns, because somebody is cutting in on it, we’ve got to do something about it. Right now you’ve got people thinking, 'What...I’m only just doing this, I’m only just doing that.' But, you’re only just doing this and this person is only just doing that, and it’s chipping away and it’s chipping away and chipping away. And, you don’t see it, but it’s a serious thing."

...and a lot more

I can see this creating even more of a backlash against the RIAA than anything. More than likely they will be suing a bunch of young college students (power users who trade the most files) for billions of dollars, and it will look like a bunch of corporate suits shaking down kids. It'll be a PR nightmare for them.

Maybe if you all didn't make such suck-ass albums we might actually WANT to buy them, filler-mongers....

I think the trick is making a record that's worth listening to, then. (Which according to some they've done anyway...)

stop me when you see a pattern start to develop...

We do?

what about the used cd market?!? they tried suing there because people were being cut out of royalties... and lost. different, i know, but royalties and per person exposure is NOT how media is priced. they can pretend it is, but that's not really how it is.

and when i buy lord of the rings on dvd i can only have 3.45 friends over to watch one viewing.

m.

anybody want to take a whack at the number of gross oversimplifications and clever omissions made in these quotes? There's at least a handful, so far...

those that hang onto the old are basically holding onto their carriage stocks as model t fords race by.

you can still be in the business of moving people around, but you need to change and change quick.

but those above have contracts and are stuck in an old mode. they feel entitled and lobbies and big money will keep the law on the side of their entitlement until they snap out of it.

m.

You forgot:

1981: CDs Are Killing Music! The Artists can't make any money if people can make a perfect copy every time without wearing out the original!

given that it takes me 20 hours to get an album means i probably wont be on their list

(*I have no children, helpless or otherwise.)
(**I reserve the right to adopt the exact same attitude as the above as soon as I am signed to a fat recording contract.)

ooo, that's a good one! I think I'll do a version of that: "Uh, yeah, I'm downloading this stuff to possibly select music for my next radio show."

And i blew another $42 on music today. Fuck 'em.

Just imagine!

What does someone like Fred Frith think about downloading? Or the "Dead"? Or, uh, Momus?

Well, it seems to have salvaged Janis Ian's career (or maybe just speaking out in favor of it anyway):

http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html

But how do you prove you've shared an MP3 copy of a song? Sorry if that sounds disingenuous -- other than actually downloading from a sharer, or nabbing the sharer's hard-drive, I can't see how this is necessarily proved.

But that's nothing. If I were to be caught yesterday morning, when I was sharing an estimated 4,000 songs, I would be sued for SIX HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS. This would set me back a bit.

Of course with someone like me, they would settle out of court for the relatively small sum of my entire income for the next five years, which would take me 25 years to pay. But those numbers sure are neat, ain't they? Look at all the potential liability on your hard drive! You could kill your mother and get off easier than SIX HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS!

get it here:
http://gominosensei.org/waste/
http://www.dhorrocks2003.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.html

...among hundreds of other places.

Hey, we should make an ILX WASTE hub! it would be incredible!

They're entitled to try and make millions by promoting pop stars, and also, I suppose, to ruthlessly protect that "business model" by suing P2P users, if that's how they want to play it. They CAN'T, however, go pretending that this is the only way music production and distribution can work and be profitable.

please be careful with what you're saying here.

use client/server and not p2p. more effort, sure, but less worries..

I like artists. Love them, in fact. Have spent the better part of my life patronizing them heavily. I care about what happens to them, and I care about them having monetary incentive to create.

But I do not care about the major labels. I do not care what happens to them. I sincerely want them all to tank. I want bankruptcy, scandal, suicides. Multi-million dollar homes suddenly for sale, vast estates returned to the bank. I want record executives to not be able to look their wives and kids in the eyes anymore. I want them to go down in flames, and I want them to feel shame and regret.

Never again will I hand over a $20 bill for a CD, and not have enough left over for a pack of fucking gum. Never again.

maybe they thought that since it took 45 minutes to encode a 4 minute file as an mp2 file nobody would have bothered doing it.

coming soon, RIAA in time machine research.

Well Missy's not particularly guilty, but Hip Hop has also always been about selling drugs, shooting people and violent political revolution and copyright infringement seems quite minor in comparison.

Sigh.

except, um, Everclear bloke, and he seemed the bitterest, heheheh

and would this utopia be the point at which significant aspects of a bloated, decadent, greedy (much like they would say the downloaders are) industry is rendered obsolete because there is sufficient quantities of all supporting parties to perpetuate its very existence...an illusion of an invisible system that runs on thin air rather than a bloody heart (the hapless consumer) almost.

does anyone really feel that either the industry or the public are worse off for file-sharing than they were 5-10 years ago?
only time will tell the real effects of the current revolution. 10 years from now ought to be very interesting indeed (as in this utopian principle is embraced and sustained...or um, i might be in prison).

"I don't have a career and a cultural milieu anymore! Love me anyway!"

it can still often be quicker to download an album than to encode it from CD. as far as I know you are allowed to make copies of albums you own, and that should include making a digital copy to keep on your hard drive for easier access. the RIAA and manufacturers are abusing, bending, or perhaps even effectively breaking, this law by introducing the Copy Control feature on new CDs and the whole 'won't play on computers' absurdity which is dubiously justified AND ultimately a waste of time as there is no way to stop people making copies of CDs via realtime playback recording.

this means a lot of people may well have downloaded albums and tracks they already own. its accepted that this is okay to do. e.g. you are legally entitled to download emulator ROM files of old video games for 'evaluation' purposes, as long as you own the game. why shouldnt this be the same with mp3s? another useful loophole (to add to the large stockpile)...how would they then go about asking you to prove that you do indeed own all the music you've downloaded ("well Mr RIAA Sir, i did buy this album but I've since lost it/lent it to a friend to listen to/my dog ate it")

CDs are actually a lot cheaper these days so the excuse about being ripped off doesnt wash as well. the new quandry is how bothered you are about getting the cheapest price on a CD for an artist you DO want to support. is it a big deal whether you pay £8.99 or £13.99 then?

i'd really rather just send the band themselves the money - a donation even. they can then pay the label and whoever else deserves money for putting it together. shouldnt every band have a PayPal account for this very purpose?

i know these are quite naive/idealistic views but their beauty is they expose further the absurdity and impending redundancy of the current way in which the industry works. the times they have become quite different, time to cast off what is no longer needed. i'm not saying i've worked out the real worth of everyone involved in the process of recording and releasing an album, but as an example, it may be the case that retail outlets will not be able to take a cut very soon. then again some people like going record shopping, even it its in some big stupid HMV...

As far as I've been able to work out that doesn't apply in the UK, but then neiher do the RIAA. Heh.

Since the Supreme Court made the right decision today in regards to Texas's terrorism laws against homosexuality, Missy's quote by default gets my "oh fucking please!" award of the day, for all the reasons all of you have given above. Oh fucking please! Like Missy's reputation doesn't owe half of its esteem to the "hard work" of the bootleggers/mashers-up/illegal-remixers/etc. (if people like Mandy Moore and Brooks & Dunn get to corner the market on "hard work," I say the rest of us are in slave labor.) But, like you said, her statment alone and RIAA's sampling of it was probably a business deal, since she's admitted to as much.

'turning your back on the bootleggers' - obviously she aint talking about Kurtis Rush, Freelance Hellraiser and Kid 606 - all of whom got people dancing, listening to and maybe even BUYING Missy Elliott who previously may not have done so (then again, everyone does seem to love the original mix of 'get ur Freak On')

SIX MILLION DOLLARS!!! heh

Music fans download stuff for free because:
1) They don't feel they are getting value for their dollar to buy the CD
2) Much of the stuff they are looking for isn't readily available in their local music stores.

Music fans download stuff for free because:
1) They don't feel they are getting value for their dollar to buy the CD
Damned Straight!
2) Much of the stuff they are looking for isn't readily available in their local music stores.
Excellent point! Where else will you find:
a) the "Ray of Gob" mashup
b) that record that your local WalMart refuses to carry
c) ...or we didn't even knew it existed. Like ROVO, ferinstance.

2. The price of a CD is more than just the cost of manufacturing. It's the cost of recording, promotion, art work, printing, etc. Besides, it's an artist right to profit from their work -- none of which is an excuse to rip them off.

3. As for much of the stuff not being in local record stores, have you ever heard of mailorder or the internet? Or reading magazines or on-line websites to find out about stuff?

Bullshit. All of the money spent on their videos and promotion was taken from their portion of the cut, not the record label's. They never actually had enough money to spend all of it. (I believe the final figure was that after all of the expenses were taken out of they're cut they ended up with something like $35K apiece for _CrazySexyCool_.)

They already do, $10 is the typical wholesale price (ex VAT of course). They used (= three years ago) to make about $1 clean profit on that on average. Not anymore, though...

If they'd want to get retail prices at $10, that'd mean $5 wholesale, and with variable costs (including artist royalties & distribution) at around $5 a disc that means they'd have to manage to find recording and promotion for free, and become a non-profit organisation at the same time. That's not going to happen. It has become almost impossible to make money on CDs alone - THAT'S why the RIAA is so desparate: their business is unsustainable and there's no working alternative model yet. iTunes might be one, though.

Well, yes and no. There may be a nominal cost to actually producing a CD, but the cost of goods sold for releasing a cd is obviously much higher. Studio time, producer's fees, mastering, artwork, packaging, marketing, distributor's fees, returns - all these add up, so it's a little unfair to say a CD cost .32 to make.

This is why even a band like The Strokes haven't 'made it' yet - they may have recouped, but the sales numbers don't add up to success, other than the vanity of having them on the label.

(Yes, I work at a label, and every MP3 you download is one less CornNut in my empty, quivering belly.)

To be followed shortly by DVDs, television, publishing and any artform that can be digitized AND enjoyed in the home. Concerts, plays, movies in theatres and art galleries will continue to be sustainable businesses, as they offer unique entertainment experiences that don't run on Windows.

Speaking of which, open-source software has presented an alternative business model for "free" digital content. Lots of big companies like IBM "sell" Linux. So maybe Apple's strategy is to offer iTunes as break-even or even loss-leader baitware to move more Macs and iPods.

The huge problem is, the people running the entertainment conglomerates only know the way things used to work...as New York media columnist Michael Wolff put it, "In a situation of such vast uncertainty, with the breakdown of all prior business and cultural assumptions, you don't necessarily want to have to depend upon, say, Tommy Mottola to create a new paradigm."

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/media/columns/medialife/6099/

also worth a read:

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/media/columns/medialife/n_8384/index.html

Every time someone from the music industry nags someone that they're doing something wrong, it only increases the "wrongdoing" ten fold.

Totally being flippant there, Andy. But you have to admit, the RIAA taking the "War on Drugs" approach here is pretty much fucking EVERY record label along the way... do you not agree? If not, doesn't this fucking piss you off, working for a label that could care less about associating themselves with the Principal Skinner of music associations?

figures.

Well, that was a lot of gibberish. In short, my downloading files doesn't hurt any artist or label, because I was never directly giving them money in the first place.

http://www.eff.org/share/

several alterative solutions to getting artists paid are presented there.

the more of us that get involved, the better chance we have that everyone can win in this. (at least to a degree.)

m.

this is like me buying a dvd based on a preview. fuck that.

prime examples are fi$cher$pooner and electric 6 (or wildbunch if you are of a certain age *)

i remember downloading emerge from napster and wondering what the fuss was about. why did ministry of sound almost go bust after signing a band who's album had already been released. did anyone buy theeir album on ministry of sound? or did they get it first time round, which poresumable all the people who liked the band did.

now, electric 6's danger high vooltage (no spelling mistake there*) has been around for bloody ages. radio played the damn thing for an eternity before it was released. in their defence, that strategy worked due to their rather high chart position. in saying that, if i ever hear it again, it'll be too son.

Also, could the music consumers, joining forces with artists who have lost sales due to price-gouging, get a counter-suit together? I think it might be appropriate given that it takes very little money to manufacture a CD.

When was the last time you needed tech support to listen to music, or required professional service to integrate a CD into your collection?

The cycle is going to just repeat itself over and over:
-Record companies make shitty music
-People don't feel like buying
-Record companies get whiney

Pay P2P will not work. Free P2P will not be stopped. And as long as good music is made, good music will be bought.

Erm, if I had a nickel for every time I've tweaked someone's Kazaa install...but what I meant was, you can value-add all kinds of goodies to the core product (outtakes, first dibs on concert tickets, live shows, etc.) to justify the customer's investment.

Then again, J.K. Rowling just sold several million copies of an overwrought fairy tale told the 5th time over, borrowing liberally from Star Wars, Dungeons & Dragons, Tolkein and Encyclopedia Brown. In hardcover. At bookstores. For full list.

That's ridiculously wrong.

- Download any P2P software.
- Enter "Godspeed You Black Emperor!"
- Enter the number one song on the top 40 right now (this week: "Miss Independent" by Kelly Clarkson).

Which do you think is going be on more people's computers?

hahahahahahaNO

Which do you think is going be on more people's computers? "

er, this would be entirely dependant on where you looked.

and strangley enough, no mention of irc channels and newsgroups - where else do you find the advance copies first online?

(but I didn't tell you that)

Well yes, if you confined your search to a GYBE! room on Soulseek, I could see the top 40 song losing out.

I dunno, by the RIAA's logic, they should sue all the used CD stores, and ebay, and anywhere you can buy music where the money doesn't go directly to the artist... I mean, the label...

saw a hilarious metallica video on tv this morning , lars the drummer, sporting a fine mullet, the track, needless to say, was cack.