Is URBAN MUSIC a rasist term?

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is it just a politically correct term for 'black music' that Billboard adopted after black/white charts segregation was considered rasist...?

― klwfood, Tuesday, 9 September 2003 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

the radio stations themselves--well, at least WGCI, which is black-owned and -operated I believe--do use it themselves, although I'm not sure that answers this question.

"urban" is a euphemism for black in other contexts too, which also doesn't answer the question. there is "urban" hair product and "urban" fashion. but again i get the feeling that black marketers and businessmen were behind the shift.

why did this term start to gain popularity in this (musical) context? what was wrong with "r&b"...was it the emergence of hip-hop, and the resulting need for a more pluralistic/encompassing term? or did "r&b" seem to hark back to another era thus a source of embarrassment?

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

anyway at least in chicago recent developments in radio formats have clouded the whole "charts segregation" thing, just as happened earlier in the '80s. these things come and go. b96 plays what mtv plays, just not the rock stuff. 103.5 plays pretty much everything mtv plays, including the rock stuff. wgci (the "urban" station) sometimes delves a bit deeper into a given mtv-approved artist's catalogue but otherwise is like mtv w/o the rock and pop. but then there are the "dusties" stations which play older/"adult" r&b (which used to mean doo-wop and steppers, now it means anita baker and peabo bryson).... they also sometimes refer to themselves as urban.

no, i don't think it's racist, but its strangeness (urban = black WTF) has always seemed evident to me. i remember asking about this back in grammar school.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I use "urban" to describe sounds in music that remind me of the city -- the grittiness, the flow of things, the city mindset.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I don’t think it’s racist, but it is silly, yeah. I think it should be used for what Jeanne said. A lot of shows/stations here (the Netherlands) are using ‘urban’ as their genre, but I think it’s stupid, because... I don’t know, because I don’t want any R&B mixed in with my hip-hop.

― Orange, Tuesday, 9 September 2003 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Like "Rhapsody in Blue," you mean?

― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll acknowledge the term "urban" music when they stop playing Nappy Roots on so-called "urban" stations.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

mixing desks not being plugged into a generator in the middle of a field next to an outhouse shocker there nick

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

(and that goes for both broadcasting and recording.)

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

zing ya got me

― nickalicious has been denied (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I suppose the conglomeration of hip-hop/modern-version r&b could get away with calling itself "urban" in that, what with both styles more deeply rooted in hip-hop than what-was-historically r&b, it's a style whose roots are definitely city-spawned. However, was not punk rock also city-spawned? Are not many so-called "urban" music artists from the country? I just don't like the vagueness of the term is all.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

But I guess this raises my ire no more than referring to soundalike jangly-but-not-quite-exciting rock bands as "alternative" or somesuch. It's just that the term "urban" presupposes a specific geographical origination among the artists (that being The City, Any City) that isn't necessarily the case.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

FWIW I often do use the word "urban" to express a common element in music, but it almost never is in synch with the way it's supposedly supposed to be used; Medeski Martin and Wood's The Dropper is more "urban" than Goodie Mob, in the context of how I prefer to use that word, that is.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

(ie it conveys more of that sense of being-in-a-city, the hustle, the concrete, the adrenaline-pumping-anticipation of anything possible, the grime, subway trains, hookers on street corners at 3 am, sensory overload, etc.)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i think "urban" is a much better way to describe a music that a. has it's roots in the city (r&b came from electrified city-ified blues as much as the country blues) and b. has such a broad, multi-racial fanbase as to make the term "black music" misleading if not outright "wrong" (even if the determining context is overwhelmingly black.)

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I've used "urban" to describe punk and hardcore more than a few times. Though I have to admit, when I hear the word, I tend to think "concrete jungle"-ish hip hop.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, i do agree with amateurist that there's this bizarre notion that "urban" = "black", but i have to wonder how much of that comes from outside commentators/spectators rather than fans.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

To me, Luscious Jackson is extremely urban. And they're a bunch of white girls. (Yes, who rock the hip hop, but I'm trying to discredit the race card.)

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i think ignoring the aspect of race in this discussion is incredibly dangerous.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

then again i'm also gonna take a wild stab in the dark and guess that everyone who's posted so far is lily white.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh no, I didn't mean to ignore the aspect of race. I'm just saying to equate the word "urban" with "black people only" is silly. And I don't find the word inherently racist.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Bubba Sparxxx, on urban radio, right this very moment. Huh.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

that's kinda what i'm talking about.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:01 (twenty-two years ago)

It's cuz of this (as well as the fact that, m'hey, lotsa not-black folks live in "urban" areas wow) that I particularly agree with your point "gabbo" about the broad, multi-racial fanbase. Plus it's beginning to reflect that multi-culti influence sonically a great deal; the bhangra elements and rock-guitar elements and other such new-ish influences evident in "urban" music.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

German Radio uses the phrase "black music" repeatedly and unashamedly; there are advertised-on-tv hit compilations called "Black Moods" and "Black Magic", etc., and the cover art is nearly always two oiled-up beautiful people of African decent getting it on. I can't get used to this.*

*It's the blantant usage of the racial other for marketing purposes that I can't get used to; oiled-up beautiful people of all races are always welcome in my cd rack.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, this is one of my pet hates (the concept of 'black culture' is highly dubious imo) but I'm too ill to go off into a full-scale rant about it, but Radio 1xtra - which I've heard marketed as Britain's 'premier urban station' - actually describes itself as 'the home of black music' on its website, which last I looked was handily illustrated by pictures of Justin, J-Lo and Eminem. fzzzggdddzasguasguowe; fo;wGRRRR.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

?????

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

(the concept of 'black culture' is highly dubious imo)

um...

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i never had any problem with the term because where i live there aren't any nonwhite people in the sub-urban or non-urban areas. ok, that's not counting the latin americans but they don't listen to urban music, they listen to ranchera.

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

accordingly in the suburbs "urban music" is considered transgressive and/or passe. in the urban center of town urban music is just part of the landscape.

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, i do agree with amateurist that there's this bizarre notion that "urban" = "black", but i have to wonder how much of that comes from outside commentators/spectators rather than fans(emphasis added

wait wait are there really people who identify the type of music they listen to as "urban"?

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

The other day, a co-worker was talking about racial biases in standardized testing, and gave the example of asking kids what color a banana is. Supposedly, some test-makers were forced to change this question on the grounds that "kids in the inner city don't have the opportunity to see fresh fruit." Ignoring the fact that that's absolutely stupid, on so many levels, my next reaction was: "Wait, that's not a RACIAL bias at all -- if anything, it's a class bias."

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

"Wait, that's not a RACIAL bias at all -- if anything, it's a class bias."

WELCOME TO AMERICA.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, no shit.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

By the way, Dan, I like you, cuz you're not like all those other black guys.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

That sounds like a less-on-point version of something else I once heard said about standardized testing: namely, that a common question on some standardized children's intelligence test like the WISC or the WRAT or something was "What does the stomach do?" and that a kid who's always had plenty to eat was likely to answer "it digests" or "it turns food into energy" or something similar, but a kid from "the inner city" (the term used in the documentary where I heard all this) would be more likely to say "it growls" and get marked down. Which does seem a fair point to me.

I personally would now be compelled to answer the question "What does the stomach do?" thus: "It gets bigger, even if you subject yourself to insanely restrictive diets in a vain effort to defy time & regain your once-proud young-Peter-Murphy figure," but that's neither here nor there, I guess

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the idea of R&B hair products.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

By the way, Dan, I like you, cuz you're not like all those other black guys.

MY ENTIRE LIFE TO THREAD ARGH

I like the idea of R&B hair products.

"Just let your sooooooooul glow!"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Threads with the word "racist"* in the title = 100+ posts overnight, every time.

*if "racist" is misspelled, double projected-post count

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i really get the feeling that "urban" was a term employed *by* black marketing people and businessmen. the question is what are they getting at? or away from? i think it's a bit like how certain studies refer to women as "minority"--ridiculous on its face, but it gets at a certain truth in a roundabout way and can be appreciated (if not endorsed) in context. i tend to think this term is employed so that there remains a commercial space for product directed *at* black audiences without wanting to bear the legacies of either separatism or segregation. part and parcel, one could argue, of the de-politicization of the black middle class and pop culture which nelson george et al lament.

my experience of this term is tied to growing up in chicago. seeing as chicago is the 2nd-largest black city in america, i think it's probably a decent background for understanding, although as jess suggested i am indeed lily-white.

dan OTM. the whole "soul glow" riff in that eddie murphy film is kind of burlesque on the commercial mindset hinted at in my first paragraph.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

one problem with these threads (i was going to say this in my second paragraph and forgot) is that people from all over the world post presuming that the term means the same thing in all these contexts. it doesn't. i think "urban radio" etc. are very *american* terms--correct me if i'm wrong.

"black music" is a term that's never had much currency in america, while a great blues magazine had that name in the UK and in general it is acceptable t/o europe. why?

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i tend to think this term is employed so that there remains a commercial space for product directed *at* black audiences without wanting to bear the legacies of either separatism or segregation.

Directing product specifically at a black, or indeed white, audience IS a form of cultural separatism/segregation.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

the lex: that's probably true, in a sense. but i think the point is that the businessmen are *trying* to get away from controversy by deflecting it with a non-race-specific term that is nonetheless a code for race.

it's like "states' rights" albeit 1,000x less pernicious.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

key word in the sentence you quoted: WANTING

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

also as jess pointed out there are minorities of white folks on both ends...making the music and enjoying it. wgci is the top-rated music radio station in chicago. lots of white people listen to it even if a shifting notion of blackness informs its every move and affect. so "urban" is not entirely inaccurate.

p.s. 75% of america lives in cities/suburbs so what music is *not* urban these days?!

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

suburban music

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

rural music

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

detroit techno

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Bubba Sparxxx never struck me as particularly urban, or indeed particularly black.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

why is it ridiculous to call women a minority?

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

because they are technically a majority?

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I prefer "Blazin' Hip-Hop n' R&B".

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

"1947: The term "Rhythm and Blues" was coined in 1947 by Jerry Wexler as a replacement for the terms "race music" "sepia music" and "Harlem Hits Parade" during a reorganization of the Billboard charts."

I really don't understand the question as it was originally posed.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Here's some interesting stuff about marketing in urban and/or black-populated areas.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I missing something about the premise of this thread? When and where did Billboard adopt an "urban" chart? So far as I can tell, it's still called "R&B/Hip Hop," as it has since about 1990.

― Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 9 September 2003 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Radio & Records is more influential for radio play, and they have Urban, CHR/Urban, and Urban AC charts.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

b96 plays what mtv plays, just not the rock stuff. 103.5 plays pretty much everything mtv plays, including the rock stuff. wgci (the "urban" station) sometimes delves a bit deeper into a given mtv-approved artist's catalogue but otherwise is like mtv w/o the rock and pop.

Amateurist, I'd also like to add to this that WGCI (and Power 92, the other "urban" station = "#1 in the streets!") have mostly black on-air talent, while B96 and 103.5 have (I'm assuming) mostly white. Even when they're all playing "P.I.M.P." at the exact same time.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, as usual, Billboard is years behind radio.

Near as I can tell without hitting the library, here's the timeline of "race"/"black"/"urban" music:

dawn of time-present: "pop music" (all records bought by mass audience, presumably mostly "white")

1921-1949: "race music" (all records made mainly by, and presumably for, "black" people)

1949-1951: "rhythm and blues" (termed reportedly coined by Billboard writer Jerry Wexler; all non-bebop records made mainly by blacks, mainly for blacks and young people)

1951-early-'60s: "rocknroll" and "rhythm and blues" (same as above, except rocknroll is the stuff that goes "pop," and it never gets its own chart, I'm pretty sure; term popularized by Alan Freed)

early-'60s-1982: "soul" (I have no idea how this chart was defined, since the white audience for this chart was huge, and black radio was only starting to become a force. But the category includes Motown, soul, blues, gospel, funk, disco, early rap, even contemporary jazz. All that music reached the "pop" charts as well, so go figure.)

1982-1990: "black music" (same as above, except Billboard changed the name, and the chart might have been more defined by black radio. During the end of this period, however, Billboard began to deviate from black stations--see below.)

1988???-present: Black radio begins dividing into "urban contemporary" and "urban adult contemporary" (the rap vs. slow jam audiences). "Urban oldies" becomes a third category.

1990-present: At Billboard, "R&B" (and soon "R&B/Hip Hop") becomes the modern replacement for "Black Music." Then again, the format is just as all-encompassing and vague as when it was "race music," and it seems to be driven as much by white youth dollars as "pop" ever was. So again, go figure.

― Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Lewis Passmore to thread!

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Not rascist, but a bad name. Typical "nerd pop" such as Crowded House, Scritti Politti and other stuff generally preferred by academics is just as "urban" as that black inner city stuff, really.

Besides, 30s blues and 40s R&B wasn't particularly "urban", was it?

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 23:12 (twenty-two years ago)

geir who is calling 30s blues 'urban'?

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

and im pretty much fine with radio stations or record stores or whatever using the term 'urban' since it usually just means im going to like whatevers being called that, it is kinda embarrassing when artists self-identify with it though (the bubba sparxxx line about being a 'urban music pioneer' is cringey though i think hes using it for contrast) and i remember being really disappointed when i first saw there was a dude named keith urban and thought he would be either a rapper like keith murray or a rnb dude like keith sweat but then he was COUNTRY!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i actually wrote in one of my posts above about how one of geir's habits is popping in a thread and offering an opinion on a trend/phrase without seeming to understand the pertinent (American or British) context, but thought it wasn't necessary.

So there you go.

I think "urban" (again, in the sense it's used as in "urban radio" or "urban music") reeks of marketing and radio formatting -- I can't imagine many artist claiming to be part of an "urban" genre.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

so trife OTM

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

"Record Store Clerk Now Filing All Black Artists Under "Urban""

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

haha at doctor wax in evanston they stuck charley pride under "r&b" and acted real peeved (in the customary assholish dr. wax manner) when i suggested they move him into country.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

amateurist do you love those stations that play top 40 without the rock as much as i do!! in atl ours is 95.5 the beat, theyre really good even though all the djs are stupid, 103.3 has better djs but plays less music. i wish the top 40 w/o rock stations did commercials like the rock stations who brag abt not playing rap, like have 'rock radio' playing the beatles or nirvana or something and the announcer is like 'TIRED OF THE SAME OLD CRAP??' then the needle scratches and goes vvvVVVRRRRP!!! and hot in herre or in da club comes blastin in!! i guess such agressive smear tactics are usually only implemented by the losing side, though fox news has proved they dont have to be!!

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, most of the rest of radio format charts are silly too: Active Rock, Adult Album Alternative, Contemporary Hit Radio, etc. Trife is describing Contemporary Hit Radio/Urban, or in shorthand "CHURBAN."

― teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

haha charley pride!! yeah a lot of times in stores here you can find like dnb or techno by black artists in the hiphop section, and any white rapper in the rock section

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

i wrote an "exposé" for my high school paper about segregationist music store filing. it stunk.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

its funny how quick all the hippie ppl who 'dont see genre boundries' will resort to using them if forced to choose, how many of the wack idm heads who whine abt the idm name would rush straight to the IDM section of a mp3 download folder or record store?? same with 'alt country', 'trip hop', whatever, ppls mp3 genre classification is great for studying the sociology of this

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:12 (twenty-two years ago)

trife i fear you're derailing the thread....

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm doing a good job too...sorry...

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i knew a girl who proudly declared that her fav music was 'trip hop', and like this wasnt 1995 or something, this was last year!!

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, no record stores (that i know) use the "urban" designation. it seems strictly a radio thing, and i think it was popularized there as a result of a kind of initiative on the part of black industry professionals and marketing people. BET to thread.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

oh xpost haha sorry ist, im not sure how much more we can really say abt 'urban' filing though since everyones basically agreed its essentially stupid but currently necessary, like the electoral system or reading ilm

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

haha!

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

bet to thread, you mean BLACK entertainment television?? dont blame the euphemizing of black ppl on black ppl

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you remember when major retail CD chains would have "Pop/rock" and "Dance/hip hop" sections? Ah, those were the days.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

dont blame the euphemizing of black ppl on black ppl

Don King to thread.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I suspect "urban" became currency the moment "urban adult contemporary" started getting thrown around in the '80s, for no other reason than "adult contemporary R&B and Hip Hop" is too much of a mouthful...

― Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

To mix things up further, where are "the streets"? In Minneapolis, the inner-ring suburbs have all the gang and drug problems associated with "urban" areas, more of them, in fact. America in some places is becoming like Paris: Rich inner city, poor inner suburbs.

― Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

atl to thread!!!! sometimes the upper class atl suburbs seem like a cruel joke at the expense of the almost dystopian inner city here

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:25 (twenty-two years ago)

to thread as an counterargument, i mean

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i think that historically term URBAN was really introduced as a substitute for term BLACK, because black-made music couldn't be played on white radio stations and positioned on white charts...

― deniad, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

deniad you have brought a shocking revelation to this thread!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

oh Christ trife thank you, you have given me a hard case of the giggles & I really, really needed 'em pretty bad

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 00:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Deniad, respectfully, I don't think so. If anything, "urban" allows white artists to be played on the black-owned B96 chain. And Top 40 has been dominated by black artists at least since I started listening in 1978 or so.

― Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 01:02 (twenty-two years ago)

If we had non-rock top 40 here I'd listen to it all the time. (brief derail: montreal radio sucks ass) now back to Is URBAN MUSIC a rasist term?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

it is phrasist

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I wish that there were stations that REALLY played everything except rock. Coz if I get the R&B I need to listen to the r&b/hip-hop station but if I want dancepop too then I need to listen to the hip-hop/dancepop station and there's no R&B.

Of course that's not a problem in Boston now coz there's only one fucking hip-hop/r&b station at all, tho its not bad especially in the classic cuts it plays. And there's a decent soul/disco/motown one. And one college station plays plenty of dancehall and reggae which is a nice change.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 04:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Please: what the hell is active rock?

― Sean (Sean), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 07:02 (twenty-two years ago)

theres nothing good on the air in boston. WERS is almost good, but unfortunately never good enough to actually listen to for more than 5 minutes. so its KPOO/KPFA/WFMU/Resonance/Scanner streams all the way. btw 1xtra is called frequently by the bbc as their "Black Music" station, which if that isnt racist i dont know what is.

― carmen, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course that's not a problem in Boston now coz there's only one fucking hip-hop/r&b station at all, tho its not bad especially in the classic cuts it plays.

????

There's 94.5 (which is top-40 chart-oriented) and 97.7 (which I'm guessing is the station you were talking about).

The college station is WERS, right? I love that station.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Slightly offtopic: how come no-one calls Folk, Blues or Country "Rural Music"?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Well they do call country 'country music' ;)

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

The best thing to do w/ these labels is see the word as having a new meaning, not as an extension of an old one. When people are talking about music & then mention "urban," you know they're talking hip-hop & r&b, not "cities." When people mention "Alternative" you know they're talking Coldplay, you don't ask "Alternative to WHAT, man?"

Just the other day I was talking to an 18-year old girl, she is African-American, & she described her personal style to me as "Urban" and didn't feel the need to explain further. Kids growing up with these words just internalize them, there is no confusion.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 14:07 (twenty-two years ago)

With all those colleges you only got one campus station in Boston?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

NO MARK DO NOT TAKE AWAY OUR SEMANTIC TOYS

We have one and a half decent campus stations (Emerson and Boston College half of the time; DO NOT GET ME STARTED on the wrong-thinking mess that is WHRB).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Active Rock is hard rock. Often goes by the tagline 'extreme radio' or somesuch.

― teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

the bit about 'black music' being an inaccurate term because of the "broad, multi-racial fanbase"...what does the fanbase have to do with it? i never thought it meant 'music for black people' but rather music based in black culture, no matter who listens to it or plays it now.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

you know this could all be fixed real quick-like if we'd just make the switch from adjectival descriptions of music to numerical referents, starting with some high multiple of ten so that nobody'd say "what used to be 'rock' is now Music #1, thus affording it a place of privilege" etc

UK Garage is now #80
power metal is #110
retro surf-rock is #240
rap is #60

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i never thought it meant 'music for black people' but rather music based in black culture
Yeah...b-b-b-but...name one mainstream music genre (besides, say, Classical) in America that *doesn't* have roots in black culture?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, there you go. Some have been more thoroughly commodified than others though, and for longer.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I know I do it too, but I love it when people say "classical" like it's all one thing.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

That's how I am with "world" music, Dan.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

dan i think that's an unfortunate product of it being such a foreign object to most young people, so saying "classical" suffices to suggest this whole world of music in which they have little or no interest. saying "early music" or "baroque" or "romantic" or "20th century" would just invite incomprehension.

sadly.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: "early music" or "baroque" or "romantic" or "20th century" vs "garage" or "trance" or "progressive house" or "house" vs "punk" vs "thrash" vs "hard" vs "modern"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

But black music is a real thing, however complicated its identity. Have you ever heard anyone call themselves "world people"? Or talk about a "classical neighborhood"?

― Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

(Hey Pete, I read your article about the fight over First Avenue when I was home and was all "YO I KNOW THAT GUY!")

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan Perry on point
about HRB but still
the marathons rule

Robyn Hitchcock and
XTC's entire oeuvre!
that's how I survived

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

country music is an urban music that strives for the rural, BTW. hence the name.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Home as in here? You gotta call me.

― Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm back in Boston now, but I grew up in Hastings. Next time I'm in town for more than just a weekend I definitely intend to look more people up.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

dan perry in being bob dylan shocker

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Almost all popular music of the past 50 years (possibly even more) has been at least partly based on black culture.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

In fact, are genres defined more by audience than by stylistic qualities in popular music?

― youn, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

So it would seem silly for a musician to self-identify as urban cos it would imply she was reaching for an audience.

― youn, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

What would a genre classification for popular music, based strictly upon the music, look like?

― youn, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Dylan's from Hibbing, not Hastings

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

(that Geir post has me picking my jaw up off the floor, seriously)

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

(ditto)

(I realized that about Dylan just after hitting "submit." whoops, and thanks for the correction.)

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 11 September 2003 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

97.7? i must seek out this station and listen to it!

(i programmed my car radio in a fit when i first moved and thats been it.)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 11 September 2003 02:46 (twenty-two years ago)

four months pass...

i sing and play GOD's music, come join us at NORTHSIDE BAPTIST CHURCH roswell ga '''''god love's you

― michael l lingefelt, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

what time, Mike?

― Huck Everlasting (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Is God "urban"?

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

and if so, does that make him "rasist?"

― Huck Everlasting (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

you couldn't just leave well enough alone.

― g--ff (gcannon), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I suppose the blues isn't urban music, since it was developed on the countryside. Same about negro spirituals and gospel...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Well I guess that's why no one refers to those as 'urban music', innit?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Electric blues is urban though.

― Huck Everlasting (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

The term "urban" I think is indeed a euphemism for the word black, but is by no means a racist tearm. It describes not only a genre of music, but a lifestyle. "Urban" is a lifestyle and the music comes from that. Music isn't white or black, it belongs to everyone. In this case anyone and everyone who lives in has lived in or can just can relate to the urban, inner city mindset are able to experience it and those who don't understand or question it should stick with the rest of the teeny boppers. P.S. Nappy Roots is as urban as it gets playa, urban doesn't just mean Hip-Hop.

― Will not provide, Wednesday, 3 March 2004 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

sixteen years pass...

Republic Records removing the term "Urban" across all contexts: https://www.instagram.com/p/CBD5HfyFnD0/

― Charging for Brewskis™ (morrisp), Friday, 5 June 2020 21:58 (six years ago)

interesting decision but they're still going to be promoting records to a broadcast media landscape that is about as structured around race as it has ever been

― dyl, Saturday, 6 June 2020 02:54 (six years ago)

Grammys too, now: https://variety.com/2020/music/news/grammy-awards-drop-urban-recording-academy-1234629747/

― Charging for Brewskis™ (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 June 2020 16:26 (five years ago)

meanwhile three-chord, truth-based Country Music™ remains the exclusive domain of land-owning, denim-wearing Country People™

― the burrito that defined a generation, Wednesday, 10 June 2020 16:54 (five years ago)

Keith Progressive R&B (sorry)

― Charging for Brewskis™ (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 June 2020 17:04 (five years ago)

excellent article from elias leight on republic's supposed rejection of 'urban'

― dyl, Thursday, 18 June 2020 04:14 (five years ago)

This may be a good place to track any efforts that labels do make in the near future to actually change business practices, organizational structure, etc. -- like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jun/12/bmg-to-review-historic-record-contracts-due-to-shameful-treatment-of-black-artists

― Charging for Brewskis™ (morrisp), Thursday, 18 June 2020 04:46 (five years ago)

sorry to stan elias leight so much but an addendum to the article posted above is just as essential

― dyl, Saturday, 20 June 2020 07:15 (five years ago)

I believe his name is just Elias Leight.

― peace, man, Saturday, 20 June 2020 09:38 (five years ago)

Melanie Parrish: "Is Jon aware that this is an 11.30 show and he just told us that he booked the Wu-Tang Clan?"

Artie: "Yes! Staten Island's streetwise troubadours . . . okay, hit it! What about 'em?"

Kenny Mitchell: "Well, we think they might be a little too . . . urban."

Artie: "Urban? Well, I can call my good friend, Lenny Kravitz. He's only half-urban!"

― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Saturday, 20 June 2020 12:44 (five years ago)

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