http://pitchforkmedia.com/features/castoffs-and-cutouts/
Ott takes some severe potshots at some unsuspecting 80's/90's acts with a style that could be best summed up as savage character-assasination. However, does the man have all his facts straight? Witness his needlessly nasty swipe at my beloved Cop $hoot Cop's Ask Questions Later
49: Cop Shoot Cop: Ask Questions Later Usually bought on the basis of its EXTREME cover art, Cop Shoot Cop were one of Interscope's earliest signatures, an industrial funk-metal mess from NYC in dire need of a decent drummer and a real singer. No single record more accurately captures the sound of a bad high school Goth band trying to intimidate their teachers from behind a Yamaha PSR
Granted, Cop $hoot Cop were often lazily lumped in with theso-called 'industrial' scene, but their lack of any sci-fi shenanigans or silly haircuts usually made them stick out like turds on the prayer rug. I have *NO* idea how Mr.Ott heard any "funk metal" in C$C. And "Goth"? I fuckin' think not.
Beyond that, Ott aims his sharpshooting keyboard at some otherwise respectable albums. See what you think.....
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Felcher (Felcher), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link
― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Bruce Urquhart (Bruce Urquhart), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:32 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:34 (twenty years ago) link
And a few of those albums are pretty damn good.
― Charlie Rose (Charlie Rose), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:40 (twenty years ago) link
― ... (gareth), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Frye (paul cox), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Jeremy (Jeremy), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:02 (twenty years ago) link
― Sam J. (samjeff), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link
I have no use whatsofuckingever for Chris Ott or Pitchfork (and I actually think "I Feel You"'s great Bad Company imitation is one of the best things Depeche Mode ever did, and I like a couple songs by the Dambuilders, too) but believe me: The items listed above are hardly "factual innacuracies." They're matters of opinion, okay??
― chuck, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:11 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:13 (twenty years ago) link
C'mon man, if you are struggling to fill it with real stuff, why not farm it out? or use real store stats and give a second store some publicity and yourself some basis in fact.
scott
― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:26 (twenty years ago) link
― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:27 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:28 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:33 (twenty years ago) link
I still maintain it's a good idea if he ever tried to root it in fact.
― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:36 (twenty years ago) link
OK, I should have chosen my words more carefully. "Only skimmed the article but noted a couple of very debatable opinions." But honestly, calling the KLF grebo makes about as much sense to me as calling Negativeland twee pop.
― Jeremy (Jeremy), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:49 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:53 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:56 (twenty years ago) link
― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:24 (twenty years ago) link
― fffv (fffv), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:38 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:39 (twenty years ago) link
― fffv (fffv), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:48 (twenty years ago) link
― fffv (fffv), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Nicolars (Nicole), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:56 (twenty years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:01 (twenty years ago) link
And my only interest is to "rile" readers? Do me a favor and read some of my reviews, rather than just the last two admittedly inflammatory features. I've gotten behind loads of records. And hate me all you want, guys-- I don't start threads about anything you've written.
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:17 (twenty years ago) link
and this proves what, exactly?
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:32 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:33 (twenty years ago) link
Now are you riled? SUCKAZ SHOCKA!!!
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:43 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:43 (twenty years ago) link
― self-adoring, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:46 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:51 (twenty years ago) link
also, Ott, you're not exactly the person to be calling other people out on cynicism, either.
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:54 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:03 (twenty years ago) link
Pick it off, maaaannnnn.
― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:11 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:11 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:13 (twenty years ago) link
So hold on... you're calling other people arrogant?
― wanksta, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:14 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:15 (twenty years ago) link
Glad I'm not one of those hundreds of people writing to you!
― onanist, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:15 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:16 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:17 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:19 (twenty years ago) link
I am so quoting you next time i mount a britney spears defense -- "She gets thousands of letters from kids WAY less cynical than YOU! Like she gives a damn what you think you insignificant punk.""
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:20 (twenty years ago) link
I check Pitchfork (and Stylus) in the morning, glance at what's being reviewed and maybe once a week read part of one of them. Am I getting counted in that readership? Do I get counted 20 times a month, since I check weekday mornings?
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:20 (twenty years ago) link
― jackmeoff, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:21 (twenty years ago) link
hey, everyone! this thread's title has turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy! it's not arrogance, it's a fact!
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:24 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:25 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:25 (twenty years ago) link
I think this should be your sig file.
― godownslow, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:26 (twenty years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:27 (twenty years ago) link
(ha xpost)
― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:28 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:28 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:29 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:29 (twenty years ago) link
Hey Ott, I just invited you to be my friendster. HOOOOTTTTTT!
― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:31 (twenty years ago) link
This is just...fuck.
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:32 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:32 (twenty years ago) link
....but the Amps! Pacer is awesome. And I was sort of wondering where the Spin Doctors and Gin Blossoms were.
― ham on rye (ham on rye), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:32 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:34 (twenty years ago) link
― onemoretime, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:34 (twenty years ago) link
Look, man, I'm no stranger to bile-ridden rants, and I'm not decrying your right to write them. I'd just suggest that you do a bit more homework before you submit them. Otherwise, your opinions come off like damp, meaningless flatulence.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:37 (twenty years ago) link
As opposed to Pitchfork? Jesus Christ, do Pitchfork writers confuse their e-zine with, I dunno, a real publication?
(Go ahead with that "jealous rock writer" comment - the only piece of music criticism I wrote was a one-paragraph blurb on Californication.)
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:38 (twenty years ago) link
this is poetry.
though this is too:
Otherwise, your opinions come off like damp, meaningless flatulence.
― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:38 (twenty years ago) link
― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:39 (twenty years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:40 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:43 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:45 (twenty years ago) link
"It's the truth," he says.
He spits out a laugh.
"The Bible says speak the truth," he says. "It doesn't say anything about you having to like what I say."
Barry Bonds, 2003
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:55 (twenty years ago) link
I come back after a few hours later and the thread is suddenly awesome. I've read the reviews and I don't really remember them, but I remember this stuff.
― fffv (fffv), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:56 (twenty years ago) link
― steve, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:59 (twenty years ago) link
― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:01 (twenty years ago) link
1 - way too much copy, way too many page links. This piece cries for sarcasm in one sentence blurbs. This will not only make it more lively and entertaining, but less reliant on actual facts. And that's fine. (and as an aside, I'd say Pitchfork's biggest downfall is that there are too many damn words in every review; it's not the quantity dude, it's the quality.)
2 - keep the "homoerotic" comments to whatever it is you do with your boys when the town pump is being serviced. Then again, it's that kind of comment that makes Pitchfork such an easy target. So, I guess you'll keep that up.
3 - don't pick a fight with Matos. Or iLx. Why?
You. Will.Always.Lose.
P.S. Bragging about having more pageviews than SPIN is not equitable to readership. Because if it is, you'd better start fucking paying your writers.
― don weiner, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:02 (twenty years ago) link
― Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:07 (twenty years ago) link
"we totally move into blender territory!"
(nb editors who may hire me i like certain parts of spin and blender fine, but the gag's too perfect)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:10 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.bondscentral.com/images/bonds7.jpg
― ham on rye (ham on rye), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:11 (twenty years ago) link
I decided to mosy on down to pitchforkmedia.com and look at the masthead. Chris Ott isn't listed as, oh, an advertising salesman, an executive of some sort or even an editor.
Did all two-dozen Pitchfork writers take part in the New Line pitch, or are you just bragging (about an ad from New Line - how low is that) about something you had nothing to do with?
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:12 (twenty years ago) link
Do I have to register now to view the PFMS threads, or do I just have the wrong URL? Because you're right, that's where the most entertaining stuff is, but I haven't been able to check it out for the last week or so.
― fffv (fffv), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:12 (twenty years ago) link
for example:when he blunders that jesus jones' "right here, right now" (which was released 1990 or 1991 depending on what side of the pond you were on) was "Another mid-90s one-hit wonder"* it is a forgivable error. it's when he follows with "we're only now running into younger fans that haven't heard", the condescending tone of elevated plurality is self-incriminating; the reader instantly recognizes just how transparent chris' stance is... he IS that "younger fan" he's bemoaning.
*as of 8:05pmPST, 09/23/03
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:12 (twenty years ago) link
1. The Stems, At First SightGhastly post-INXS ska-funk with a brilliant Big Star cover stuck up front. Talk about hedging your bets.
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:13 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:15 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:15 (twenty years ago) link
Not really. It's. Just. Boring.
I have a hard time believing that Pitchfork's target market would have the attention span to read through an article like this.
― Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:16 (twenty years ago) link
no less their critics!
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:17 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:18 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:19 (twenty years ago) link
― steve, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:21 (twenty years ago) link
Furthermore, if you think your advertising space is more valuable than SPIN's, then you are a total fucking moron. Do not go bragging to me about New Line Cinema or how you guys got that deal--I've experienced more advertising sales and know more about that business than you will ever imagine. I know exactly, to the fucking letter, how that game is played. So if YOU are always getting things right, then start explaining right now how all the studios are lining up to advertise on Pitchfork before they run anything in SPIN. Oh wait, they're not doing that.
― don weiner, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:21 (twenty years ago) link
WORD!
But I love him for his talent, idiosyncracy and art. Seriously.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:30 (twenty years ago) link
i wish brent Diwhatshisface posted on ilm. he's funny!
― scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:31 (twenty years ago) link
he'll make Scott's legs shake! Scott makes him go crazy!
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:33 (twenty years ago) link
And then, convince me that you have shitloads of advertisers lined up because you can deliver more effectively and better than SPIN.
And then, start bragging about how much you charge for ads.
And then start showing me all the auto ads you guys run and how much that industry loves working with you. Same for cigarettes.
Bitch, the last thing on earth I want to do is defend a marginally interesting read like SPIN--hell, I'll give you that your editorial is more compelling than theirs--but you make it easy.
― don weiner, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:34 (twenty years ago) link
― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:37 (twenty years ago) link
You mean your best retort isn't "HAHA U R FAT"?
Spin and RS have a combined circulation of ~1.75mln.
I'd like to see numbers supporting the contention that Pitchfork "dwarfs" them. What does dwarf mean? 100% more? 200%? Are you going claim, with a straight face, that Pitchfork has 3.5mln readers?
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:40 (twenty years ago) link
Let's try again:"Spin and RS have a combined circulation of ~1.75mln.
I'd like to see numbers supporting the contention that Pitchfork "dwarfs" them. What does dwarf mean? 100% more? 200%? Are you going claim, with a straight face, that Pitchfork has 3.5mln readers?"
And maybe we can go back to the advertising thing:
"Did all two-dozen Pitchfork writers take part in the New Line pitch, or are you just bragging (about an ad from New Line - how low is that) about something you had nothing to do with?"
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:43 (twenty years ago) link
But I can infer from your post that these negotiations will bring Pitchfork annual advertising sales equitable to Rolling Stone and SPIN combined--you know, you indicating that that your readership is that large and therefore, just as or more valuable and all. The syndicate is going to love you for that. My only question is why go with a syndicate if you are so valuable on your own? Oh I know, all that is tied up in the negotiation details as well but either way if you can kill off SPIN and Rolling Stone it will more than makeup for the hubris that has rolled out of that IP address over the past few years.
― don weiner, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:47 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:48 (twenty years ago) link
― don weiner, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:48 (twenty years ago) link
:-(Ñ
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:50 (twenty years ago) link
ka-boom! Shame you guys flat out ignored my application. Wankers! I want in on the gravy train!
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:54 (twenty years ago) link
Let me shave first. I don't want to scratch you up.
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:04 (twenty years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:10 (twenty years ago) link
(as are guys with beards in certain gay bars...)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:14 (twenty years ago) link
thanks for not tanking mercury rev. that makes it hard to complain about anything else.m.
ps "no sacred cows were sacrificed by the writing of this rock piece."
pss who really wants readership bigger than say... 10 people...? i evidentally don't. a football team would be too many people. the combined members of deerhoof and tful282 would put me over my limit.
psss seriously tho. bad jokes aside. a readership the size of rs+spin is going to require RADICALLY different content than covering the indie beat. you can't lie to yourselves. why be the next lame fucking industry mag? you might as well be the bmg/columbia house catalog.
― msp, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:17 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:45 (twenty years ago) link
not sure why Ott seems so angry. i cant quite tell who or what he is angry with. i am wary of saying this, because i fear being attacked by him, which seems a curios way of winning me over. i suspect that, as an occasional poster to a message board he seems to dislike, he has little regard for what i say, perhaps he shouldnt.
equally unsure about others anger towards Ott. there is some kind of history? it seems Ott is very scathing about ILM, i dont know if this is towards every poster, or whether that is conflation (ilm is guilty of this in regard to pitchfork though).
if Ott attacks me with the same vigour as he has some of the others here (whether in name or as 'ilx'), i dont know why i would respond in the same manner, as some here have. i am only responsible for my own words, i dont really need to do that, im not sure why some of you do
Ott is an average writer, he is ok i guess, obviously there are many better, but, you know, he likes what he does, and thats the main thing, and it doesnt really matter if he is bigger and more well known than someone like Reynolds or not, i dont think there is any need to attack Ott, i think he is best judged by his own words on this thread.
I think an ability to take negative criticism without self-aggrandizement or attack or petty retort shows your class, after all, i am curious as to what Ott would think if he got an email from a band he had criticized which outlined how they had sold more records than he had and had reached a wider audience and that that mattered more than the words of a webzine (which is the tack Ott has taken on this thread)
But, on the other hand, Ott has received many answers on this thread, and many people reading his article, so its a successful article, and i think Ott can be pleased that so many people have taken an interest in his writing, and that he has got so many people talking. and, as he says, emails from hundreds of people telling him he has made a difference in their lives.
i think Ott needs to have a little more confidence in his work, regardless of its quality, then perhaps he can avoid the prickly defensiveness and let his work speak for itself. if the views of ilm are irrelevant then there is no need to spend quite so much time defending your work, which should be good enough to stand by itself. if the views of ilm are relevant, then i'm not quite sure what you are getting, or aiming to get, from this thread, other than a critics throwdown, which is offputting to most people i would guess
― ryan stewart, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:52 (twenty years ago) link
― ryan stewart, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:54 (twenty years ago) link
and i still cant quite understand why people on both sides think there is some huge gulf between ilm and pitchfork, they seem very similar to me, especially now that ilm is predominantly american
― ryan stewart, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:56 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 05:25 (twenty years ago) link
Actually you didn't. Re-read your paragraph.
But let's stick to this one, then, as there's no wiggle room:"We have more readers than SPIN, Mikey. Sit the fuck down."
Spin has a circulation of 500k+ by itself. Where are the numbers that show Pitchfork with equivalent numbers? Since I clicked on all the pages for your article to look at the album names, did I get counted as six "readers" by PFork-math?
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 05:36 (twenty years ago) link
And also, wasn't American Music Club's "Everclear" album on the top albums of the 90's list by pitchfork?
I'd like to think that the writers at SPIN at least have something better to do with their time then argue online at some silly message board.
Ah well. Oh hey, the ramones released another live album. weird. thanks pitchfork.
― Andrzej B. (Andrzej B.), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 06:01 (twenty years ago) link
it seems that this kind of topic is mainly enjoyed by males, both on ilx and at large. is there an argument to be put forward that the kind of combative behaviour on this thread is offputting and counter-productive to many people? this kind of thread seems a strange legacy, that i am surprised people would want attached to them. or perhaps it doesnt matter?
or perhaps there isnt a competitive and combative locker room vibe to this thread? what do you all think? i am curious to learn from people about their own posts here, and if that is the kind of effect and impression they were aiming to get across.
― ryan stewart, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 06:36 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 06:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Vic (Vic), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 06:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 07:48 (twenty years ago) link
wtf is wrong w/"homoeroticism" anyway?
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 08:02 (twenty years ago) link
― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 08:10 (twenty years ago) link
There are whole piles of these records I have absolutely no knowledge of (presumably all linked to US college radio/TV spots) - Dada's 'puzzle', for example, I seriously doubt ever made it to Britain in any kind of quantity - so can't comment on the accuracy there, despite the strong feelings Chris clearly has for them.
Of the stuff I do know... erm... it's not that accurate. Alex points out the CSC one at the outset of this thread, and some other people have picked out other ones, but for me... if someone can show me the musical link between Bleach and Th' Faith Healers I'd be grateful (and surprised). Oh, and Grebo was an odd term that applied to the Fraggle bands that weren't Fraggle (coming as it did from PWEI's major Fraggle single) and was interchangeable with it for a while - but ultimately became music press shorthand for any Black Country outfit (even bands like The Hunters Club).
(Note for trivia fans - the dance that the people on stage with Mud on *that* performance of 'Tiger Feet' is called The Grebo)
My biggest gripe though is with myself. I'd read this thread before I read the column and Mr Ott has managed to build such a negative perception of him that it's hard to be positive about his writing. I'm going to try his linked 'So Much For The Afterglow' and give him another chance.
― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 09:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 09:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 09:14 (twenty years ago) link
I think I need to search the site and try and find him saying something positive about anything, just for balance.
― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 09:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 09:35 (twenty years ago) link
― David. (Cozen), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 09:48 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 09:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 10:07 (twenty years ago) link
john who packs bags at my local grocery store has a 6th toenail
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 10:08 (twenty years ago) link
This is same question Ott asked himself when he started the piece. Trouble is, he didn't bother to find out before writing.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 10:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 12:53 (twenty years ago) link
― st tremaine, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 13:07 (twenty years ago) link
I checked out about 3/4 of that before I started getting bored. Isn't Ott's own participation in a forum he decries as self-serving and masturbatory a little suspect? Especially because he's writing about his own writing (yawn) and basically by the end just trading imprecations with other board dwellers...? Way to build credibility, champ. And why does any musical discussion that reaches an impasse invariably devolve into guys calling each other homos?
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 13:21 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 14:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 14:21 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 14:24 (twenty years ago) link
So my criticism of this article is that not enough of it reads like that, there's not enough surprise or pleasure. Too much of it feels like the kind of pat opinions I'm prone to giving out in the pub when I've had one too many.
Sorry to be negative.
― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 14:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 14:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 14:31 (twenty years ago) link
It's clearly not a consistent stance though - as I said earlier, I went looking for other reviews to see if you could say anything positive about anything. I found the 'Forgotten Mixtape' piece you wrote, in which you excuse a lot of what's on it because, well, it was 1988, wasn't it... although you do defend Phil Collins and Robert Palmer...
Is that why almost all of your favourable reviews are for greatest hits, or reissues, or by big artists - because you've already decided you like them? (Or most bizarrely, for the Pavement reissue, because they sound like a band you were in?)
IMHO you had done yourself no favours in the debate up to this point, and coming back in today in the manner you have isn't winning you any points.
― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 14:42 (twenty years ago) link
I'm with Tim.
Chris, what's the point of spitting out old opinions? I'm being serious. For me, half of why I write has to do with discovery. What kind of pleasure do you get out of the kind of writing you do?
― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 14:48 (twenty years ago) link
Well, if you'd read the post, you'd see that I was quoting someone else, not expressing my own opinion.. As far as I'm concerned, your credibility as a music journalist is measured by your knowledge of the material, and your ability to convey/contextualize/communicate based upon the facts regarding that material. I'm not entirely convinced that your grasp of the material is that well versed. Thus, what you have to say is moot.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 15:13 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 15:30 (twenty years ago) link
― NA (Nick A.), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 15:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 15:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 15:38 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 15:42 (twenty years ago) link
― NA (Nick A.), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 15:45 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 18:17 (twenty years ago) link
― thom west (thom w), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 18:17 (twenty years ago) link
― st tremaine, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 18:21 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 18:26 (twenty years ago) link
nah.
that's pretty cool that pitchfork got free advertising on radio though.
― st tremaine, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 18:28 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 18:31 (twenty years ago) link
― st tremain, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 18:33 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 18:34 (twenty years ago) link
― st tremaine, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 18:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Felcher (Felcher), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:03 (twenty years ago) link
― maria b (maria b), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Felcher (Felcher), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link
maybe because "mid-90s" = "early-90s"?
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:53 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:00 (twenty years ago) link
- Ott refers repeatedly to certain acts as "signatures" (i.e a band that has been signed to a record label). I may be mistaken about this, but isn't the conventional term "signings" instead of "signatures"?
- Keith Morris of the Circle Jerks has been sporting dreadlocks since at least as far back as 1988 (the last time I saw the band live). Thus, this in no way renders his chosen hairstyle "recent".
- "TV II" by Ministry could hardly be considered "proto-grindcore", given that Napalm Death (inargualby the preeminent grindcore band) debuted in 1987, a good half a decade prior to the release of Psalm 69.
- Ned's Atomic Dustbin a "shoegaze" band? Love'em or hate'em, Jonn [sic] Penney and co. could never be accused of playing dreamy, ethereal pop, much less boasting a stage presence particularized by somnambulistic stasis. They were one of the most hyperkinetic live acts of the time (lots of rampant leaping about).
- I hate to differ with the estimable Chuck Eddy, but calling the KLF a "grebo" band is decidedly not simply a matter of opinion, but rather a sizable error. The KLF are as much a 'grebo' band as Celine Dion is a New Romantic. As much as it's a remarkably trivial distinction, 'Grebo' (a truncation of "greasy boy") referred very specifically to guitar-based bands like Gaye Bykers on Acid, Crazyhead and the hirsute, garage-clatter era of Pop Will Eat Itself. The KLF, meanwhile, were an entirely different breed of cat, concentrating more on chill-out ambient music and house (something PWEI wouldn't get involved in until later on). I'm not suggesting that one is greater than the other or that any of them are worth a damn, but if you're going to allude to them -- let alone lambast them in print -- at least get your facts straight.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:09 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:22 (twenty years ago) link
― st tremaine, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:26 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.bigcworld.com/
― scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:51 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.wens.com/airstaff/chris_ott.aspx
― scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:54 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.footbag.org/newmembers/profile?MemberID=40543
― scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link
― David. (Cozen), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:20 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:34 (twenty years ago) link
― ham on rye (ham on rye), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 23:48 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 23:49 (twenty years ago) link
― keith (keithmcl), Thursday, 25 September 2003 00:57 (twenty years ago) link
Aussie buddy Tom Morgan of Smudge wrote most of this record ['Come on Feel the Lemonheads'], and though I'm sure he made some nice money on the royalties for "Into Your Arms", he couldn't have been too happy that a druggie pinup boy reaped all the career-extending rewards.
anyone with either an internet connection or the album itself could tell you that (a) morgan shares co-writing credit with evan dando on 8 out of 15 songs and gets full credit on none, which is not the same thing as writing "most of the record" and (b) morgan had nothing to do with writing "into your arms," that was by another aussie, robyn st. clare, though maybe all those aussie pop geniuses look alike.
frankly, i don't think it's that huge a deal, but then again my name does happen to be...
― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 25 September 2003 01:07 (twenty years ago) link
it's true! we all look like shabby longhairs
― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 01:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 25 September 2003 01:30 (twenty years ago) link
― scott pl. (scott pl.), Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:08 (twenty years ago) link
― John 2, Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:38 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:41 (twenty years ago) link
also, i try not to miss any chance to enter tom morgan and robyn st. clare into the discussion.
― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:57 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:57 (twenty years ago) link
― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:09 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Jester, Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:35 (twenty years ago) link
I'm enjoying the article, not for any one album critique in particular but because it gives me a rather neat snapshot of a particular span of time, from when I first discovered, uh, alternative via MTV's 120 Minutes and bought a couple of the records named (a Lush album, actually just found my old cassette of "Happy Days" by Catherine Wheel, "Honey's Dead," "Psalm 69," Sugar, Belly, etc.).. and then saw nearly all the rest of them either show up at my college radio station & get trashed mercilessly by the staff, or already on the shelves of the radio station, never getting airplay.
Thing is I no longer fret so much about what kinda music is cool & actually rebought a couple of albums I'd ditched because, you know, I LIKE Ministry & recently discovered how Depeche Mode are utter genius (and did plenty of brilliant songs well after 1990) & Lush & Belly have some great singles, and I wish I could find my tape of "Harmacy" because "Beauty of the Ride" is another all-time fave of mine.
And who sells "Last Splash"? It never gets old! Nobody sells that! :)
― daria g (daria g), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link
Well as I recall he did that Fischerspooner review and made that astonishing observation wrt Royksopp and microhouse.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 25 September 2003 06:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Bruce Urquhart (Bruce Urquhart), Thursday, 25 September 2003 06:52 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 25 September 2003 09:28 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.ad.nl/images/posh.jpg
― Nicolars (Nicole), Thursday, 25 September 2003 11:32 (twenty years ago) link
I LIKE Ministry & recently discovered how Depeche Mode are utter genius (and did plenty of brilliant songs well after 1990) & Lush & Belly have some great singles
Daria G just became Dan's and my closest friend.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:14 (twenty years ago) link
Tim, yeah, as soon as I typed that I did think, 'oh, Fischerspooner.'
― scott pl. (scott pl.), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:18 (twenty years ago) link
...which is still wrong.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:34 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:41 (twenty years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 25 September 2003 13:01 (twenty years ago) link
I can't help but smile...
― johnypants, Thursday, 25 September 2003 13:45 (twenty years ago) link
― mcwop23, Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:33 (twenty years ago) link
UPDATE: DAMN YOU JORDAN!!!! NOBODY steals my lame replies!
― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:51 (twenty years ago) link
(or else i'll start thinking i'm losing my touch)
― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 16:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Brooke Hardy, Thursday, 25 September 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 17:08 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 25 September 2003 17:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 17:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 25 September 2003 19:35 (twenty years ago) link
For what it's worth, Ott probably turned a couple kids onto Ministry. For that I can forgive most any flaws.
― ben welsh (benwelsh), Thursday, 25 September 2003 19:39 (twenty years ago) link
― mark e (mark e), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Daron Gardner (Daron Gardner), Friday, 26 September 2003 18:35 (twenty years ago) link
To ‘clear that up,’ in August, PFM had more unique hits than Spin has monthly subscribers. (But this, of course, does not mean that PFM has more readers because that stat doesn’t take into account Spin’s newsstand sales, comp list recipients, and that multiple ppl read each circulated copy of a magazine.)
― scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 26 September 2003 18:56 (twenty years ago) link
The website I work for gets around 20 million unique hits a month. And it has around 6 million users a month. Big difference.
― auditor, Friday, 26 September 2003 19:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Andy Beckerman, Friday, 26 September 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link
― auditor, Friday, 26 September 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link
― scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 26 September 2003 19:09 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Friday, 26 September 2003 20:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 26 September 2003 20:56 (twenty years ago) link
No, of course not. I'm not trying to manipulate these numbers to 'prove' PFM is bigger than Spin, just explaining in the face of this confusion and derision the root of that claim (and why, yes, it is flawed). (And I'm probably being defensive in the process, but I personally don't find anything healthy about these sorts of pissing contests. I'm more than happy to defend the site when I think it's being unfairly characterized, but floating misinformation as proof of PFM's size and 'superiority,' I don't find to be helpful to altering the site's image. That's not meant to be a slight toward Chris. We just approach things differently.)
― scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 26 September 2003 22:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Vic (Vic), Friday, 26 September 2003 22:27 (twenty years ago) link
― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Friday, 26 September 2003 22:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 27 September 2003 14:28 (twenty years ago) link
For the record, I want it to be known he singlehandedly makes me ashamed to write for the site. Sure, Ryan's opinions can make me shudder, but Ryan is a great, funny guy. Ott's incapable of holding a civil conversation. He loves to insult you, then come back for a big hug of "aww, I'm just kidding. I just like to rile." He loves that word "rile."
― brent_D, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 01:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 01:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:07 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:07 (twenty years ago) link
His writing has such a boner to be British.
― Carey (Carey), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:09 (twenty years ago) link
(and hitchens)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:17 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:21 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:23 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:37 (twenty years ago) link
― scott pl. (scott pl.), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 03:30 (twenty years ago) link
("who i want to meet: fewer people. interests: hating people, making enemies"), so i guess thats all quite sweet really, if a little try hard
hes a friend of maura too, is everyone in the world a friend of maura?
― ... (gareth), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 06:00 (twenty years ago) link
I gotta say, I think Ott's stuff withstands these criticisms for the most part. My sense has always been that he's insightful and I think the notion that he's contemptuous of his audience is a red herring. I think he's just deeply invested, and I don't mean in persona or cred or any of that, I mean in music. There's room for disagreement, but the premise of most of these criticisms seems to be that disagreement vitiates the exercise.
Hey, but that's just me. I realize the furor has died down but I'm surprised to see that it once was so ... furious.
― smarty mcsmartyson, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 16:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 19:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 12:09 (twenty years ago) link
I'm fairly objective, because ignorant of the rivalries on show here. And I have this to say: Chris Ott comes out on the high ground. The detractors, and there are so many, mainly come over as petty and secretly rather admiring. I think the Pitchfork piece is entertaining. And of course it's idiosyncratic!! Ott deserves his props and can take heart that such a long droopy arsed thread was pushed out in response to his piece. If it was that awful would anyone have bothered?
― mick hall (mick hall), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 13:55 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 14:15 (twenty years ago) link
Chris Ott comes out on the high ground.
Chris Ott:
Cut the wolfing pal, I know plenty of people who know and revile your fat, frustrated ass. Let's stop pretending what gets said on the Internet is reality, we both box in the same class. The pseudo-intellectual coddling that goes on around this place is just homoerotic. When will you accept yourselves?
hmmm....
― stevie (stevie), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 15:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 16:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Vic (Vic), Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:01 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:17 (twenty years ago) link
what crap.
― mike bott, Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Vic (Vic), Thursday, 2 October 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 2 October 2003 05:03 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 2 October 2003 05:10 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 2 October 2003 05:12 (twenty years ago) link
― twelve, Friday, 10 October 2003 19:41 (twenty years ago) link
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Sunday, 12 October 2003 00:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 13 October 2003 14:39 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 13 October 2003 14:46 (twenty years ago) link
One time I attempted to point out some factual errors and influences he apparently missed in one of his reviews, and he told me that i displayed "a complete lack of knowledge of popular music of the last 40 years". It was pricelessly funny. (Incidentally, in that same review, he went off on a fact-impaired rant about an entire genre and didn't actually say a damn thing about the music on the album in question.)
As for the feature in question: I'm solidly in the camp of "Why Bother?" La, la, la, let's make a list of things I don't like and share it with the whole world! I don't like things, la la la!
This whole "we have more readers than Spin" thing strikes me as pretty funny. As if that was the point. As if that was a measure of quality or success! Jessica Simpson sells more albums than Mecca Normal, does that reflect on the quality of the product?
Pitchfork is increasingly irrelevant, at least in the world of college radio that I inhabit. I read it only for the news. Every colleague I've talked to feels the same way.
― Kevin Erickson, Thursday, 16 October 2003 10:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Mike Ouderkirk (Mike Ouderkirk), Friday, 17 October 2003 08:11 (twenty years ago) link
― s>c>, Friday, 17 October 2003 08:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 17 October 2003 08:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 October 2003 11:58 (twenty years ago) link
that's ummm....kinda sad really. do you have voodoo dolls of your favorite ilm posters too?
― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 17 October 2003 14:42 (twenty years ago) link
you're the one adding comments to a thread that's been pretty much dead for a month, dude.
― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Mike Ouderkirk (Mike Ouderkirk), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:19 (twenty years ago) link
Reclaim? Who took them? Are they gonna get in trouble?
― Clarke B., Monday, 26 January 2004 20:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Chuck D (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:16 (twenty years ago) link
― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:19 (twenty years ago) link
― andrew s (andrew s), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:42 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:55 (twenty years ago) link
― Clarke B., Monday, 26 January 2004 20:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Clarke B., Monday, 26 January 2004 20:58 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:00 (twenty years ago) link
Santorum should apologize for anti-gay remarksBy Chris Ott
As a gay man, I don't have a problem with Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa. But I do have a problem with the fact that he caused an ongoing national controversy with his anti-gay remarks, and is either too ignorant or mean-spirited to simply apologize.
http://www.progressive.org/mediaproject03/mpom103.html
― dean! (deangulberry), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Jon Williams (ex machina), Monday, 26 January 2004 21:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 26 January 2004 22:02 (twenty years ago) link
― gear (gear), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 21:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 21:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 21:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 21:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 22:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 23:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 15 June 2006 00:49 (seventeen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 15 June 2006 00:50 (seventeen years ago) link
― don weiner (don weiner), Thursday, 15 June 2006 01:00 (seventeen years ago) link
― jergins (jergins), Thursday, 15 June 2006 01:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 15 June 2006 01:45 (seventeen years ago) link
(and from Technique, for that matter)
WHAT
― Telephonething (Telephonething), Thursday, 15 June 2006 02:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― a.b. (alanbanana), Thursday, 15 June 2006 04:20 (seventeen years ago) link
funny how that taunt actually came to pass. also, for fun, see sales figures for series1. The Smiths2. The Kinks3. Pink Floyd4. Joy Division5. Velvet Underground6. The Beatles7. Radiohead8. Love9. Neutral Milk Hotel10. Neil Young11. Rolling Stones12. Dusty Springfield13. Beach Boys14. Jimi Hendrix15. DJ Shadow16. The Band17. The Replacements18. Led Zeppelin19. Prince20. David Bowie21. Jeff Buckley22. The Ramones23. Bruce Springsteen24. R.E.M.25. Elvis Costello26. Beastie Boys27. Abba28. James Brown29. Jethro Tull30. The Pixies31. The MC532. Sly and the Family Stone33. The Stone Roses
― timmy tannin (pompous), Thursday, 15 June 2006 05:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― Baaderonixx immer wieder (baaderonixx), Thursday, 15 June 2006 10:12 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.everydayteaching.com/Gallery/back2school/welcome.back.gif
― hold me, thrill me, kiss me, lil b (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 30 August 2010 18:03 (thirteen years ago) link
...adding comments to a thread that's been pretty much dead for six years, dude.
― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, October 17, 2003 10:11 AM (6 years ago)
― cee-oh-tee-tee, Monday, 30 August 2010 19:23 (thirteen years ago) link
you people are high.
― twelve, Friday, October 10, 2003 3:41 PM
― markers, Monday, 30 August 2010 21:10 (thirteen years ago) link
twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/367865860150407168
― Geoffrey Schweppes (jaymc), Thursday, 15 August 2013 04:59 (ten years ago) link
I WILL FUCKING KILL ALL OF YOU I WILL FUCKING SKIN YOU ALIVE IF IT MEANS ONE KID DOESN'T UNKNOWINGLY WRITHE UNDER YOUR BRO HIERARCHY
― Poliopolice, Thursday, 15 August 2013 05:05 (ten years ago) link
It's always a good day to remind a member of Grizzly Bear how unimportant they really are.
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Thursday, 15 August 2013 05:15 (ten years ago) link
Oh No!Page Not Found (404)Unfortunately, we can't find the page you're looking for — believe us, we really tried.
If you think we've made an error, please contact us and describe the problem. We'll do our best to get it sorted out quickly.
― not some dude poking a Line 6 pedal with his dick (sarahell), Thursday, 15 August 2013 07:03 (ten years ago) link
Neither of the above posts made resurrecting this thread worthwhile.
― Moka, Thursday, 15 August 2013 07:54 (ten years ago) link
What was that exchange about?
― afriendlypioneer, Thursday, 15 August 2013 19:33 (ten years ago) link
http://i40.tinypic.com/29okfae.png
― afriendlypioneer, Sunday, 18 August 2013 12:52 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vLlpJc9mW0
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 18 August 2013 13:02 (ten years ago) link
Woah
Also where is ott pulling down 94k?
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 18 August 2013 13:08 (ten years ago) link
Not counting the value of the free trucker speed he apparently gets
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 18 August 2013 13:10 (ten years ago) link
Bragging about a 94k salary is like bragging about your 5.9-inch penis
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 18 August 2013 13:27 (ten years ago) link
angry dude
― socki (s1ocki), Sunday, 18 August 2013 14:52 (ten years ago) link
Wow dude's not changed at all.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Sunday, 18 August 2013 15:09 (ten years ago) link
what's the other famous ott boast? i forget it now
― k3vin k., Sunday, 18 August 2013 15:42 (ten years ago) link
i was looking at this last night and just
― markers, Sunday, 18 August 2013 15:49 (ten years ago) link
doesn't ed droste come from family money anyways?
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 18 August 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
Damn how much do they pay you guys at spin?
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 18 August 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
Benny's
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Sunday, 18 August 2013 16:31 (ten years ago) link
he's still going
― socki (s1ocki), Sunday, 18 August 2013 16:36 (ten years ago) link
this thread has some hot Ott action: Village Voice's F2K
― some dude, Sunday, 18 August 2013 16:38 (ten years ago) link
a guy calling himself Shallow Rewards proclaiming "I make $94k base, with full bennies" like it's the most swagged out boast ever made is just too perfect.
― some dude, Sunday, 18 August 2013 16:41 (ten years ago) link
https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/368961225700278274
― some dude, Sunday, 18 August 2013 16:44 (ten years ago) link
Look it's 6 inches if I measure from the base of my Benny
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 18 August 2013 16:52 (ten years ago) link
every generation gets the lester bangs/lou reed it deserves
― da croupier, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:02 (ten years ago) link
except this time it's the critic on stage ranting about toefuckers
― da croupier, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:03 (ten years ago) link
"critic"?
― balls, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:06 (ten years ago) link
fine, vlogger
― da croupier, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:10 (ten years ago) link
actually, i stand by critic. it's 2013, vimeo counts.
― da croupier, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:11 (ten years ago) link
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/215323358/deep-sea-shallow-rewards/
i don't know what's more surprising, that this wealthy, charming individual couldn't convince people to pay for his book about Sugar Ray or that he couldn't pay for it himself
― some dude, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:18 (ten years ago) link
Hey a vimeo raconteur got $2k in pre-orders for an alt-rock Fear And Projected Self-Loathing, don't hate
― da croupier, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:24 (ten years ago) link
all around the world statues crumble for me
― some dude, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:26 (ten years ago) link
and doing all that with a day job, three kids and an addiction to bennies? again, we have no reason to mock.
― da croupier, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:27 (ten years ago) link
http://www.pitch.com/binary/1dcb/bennigans.jpg
― some dude, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:28 (ten years ago) link
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, August 18, 2013 9:08 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ott works in IT i'm pretty sure
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:33 (ten years ago) link
disappointed droste didn't clap back, this had the makings of a classic beef
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:37 (ten years ago) link
If love's what you got, don't startle a wry Ott
― da croupier, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:40 (ten years ago) link
remember that
― markers, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:41 (ten years ago) link
we gotta get this guy back on ilx
― flopson, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:49 (ten years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/pPVao1e.png
ott was really pulling off dom passantino style turning retorts into ufc chokehold maneuvers
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:51 (ten years ago) link
lol
― flopson, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:52 (ten years ago) link
"whaddya do this weekend?"
"took down a grizzly!"
― da croupier, Sunday, 18 August 2013 17:54 (ten years ago) link
how does droste come off the top rope at big perp but let ott just pummel him into submission? https://twitter.com/edwarddroste/status/276065588344942592
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:03 (ten years ago) link
omg
― flopson, Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:05 (ten years ago) link
"I am more middle class than you!"http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I1wg1DNHbNU/0.jpg
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:10 (ten years ago) link
yeah why would droste take perpetua more seriously than ott whatta mystery
― balls, Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:17 (ten years ago) link
you think he knows who either of them are?
― flopson, Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:20 (ten years ago) link
i think he knows who both of them are
― alpine static, Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
i'm not up on indie rock twitter maybe i'm underestimating the degree of familiarity bw artists & critics but like i just assume no one outside of ilx is that in-tune
― flopson, Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
Droste is particularly up on the indie rock writing circle jerk
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:27 (ten years ago) link
94k with benefits in IT, be still my heart.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:28 (ten years ago) link
perp's the music 'editor' at buzzfeed so i could see droste being familiar if only thru 'jesus christ look at this garbage' posts on facebook. he's probably old enough to remember when ott was a critic also.
― balls, Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:29 (ten years ago) link
in the northeast no less, i mean how did he swing that.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:31 (ten years ago) link
there's always a need for those guys who come around and look at your computer when it freezes and tell you to reinstall windows
― j., Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:52 (ten years ago) link
http://research.gmu.edu/techtransfer/images/SidePhoto3.png
― some dude, Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
I want 94k and bennies :(
Actually I'm fortunate to have good bennies, I asked em right up front in the interview "Say buddy boy, before we make this official, I gotta know what kinda bennies you got around here.."
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:59 (ten years ago) link
Then I says "listen chief I like my bennies like I like my women, big and a lot of them"
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
buddih
― j., Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
I imagine that after a wife and three kids and a mortgage and car insurance, 94k will probably go about as far as a kid freelancing blog posts for Noisey or band signed to Underwater Peoples
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
that's what the "novel" about Mark McGrath was gonna help cover
― some dude, Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:02 (ten years ago) link
Can't put a price on bennies though
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:03 (ten years ago) link
i believe the term is bodied?
https://twitter.com/edwarddroste/status/368972270808477696
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:04 (ten years ago) link
how does droste come off the top rope at big perp but let ott just pummel him into submission?
you think droste's the loser in last night's exchange?
― Geoffrey Schweppes (jaymc), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:16 (ten years ago) link
you can't be surprised that someone who thinks 'dom passantino style' is something to aspire to would think that
― balls, Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
Ott is pig shit
― ship who you wanna ship (flamboyant goon tie included), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:27 (ten years ago) link
This: When u have a family & they're asleep at the same time u will understand happiness PRO TIP it's not 4 chords & a reverb pedal
And this: Are you asking to sleep with me I am not gay I actually transmitted the seed that birthed my three kids into a woman.
*barf*
wowwww didn't see those
― some dude, Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:29 (ten years ago) link
When u have a family & they're asleep at the same time u will understand happiness PRO TIP it's not 4 chords & a reverb pedal
isn't this a brad paisley lyric
― da croupier, Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:31 (ten years ago) link
this thread should be condemned.
― scott seward, Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:31 (ten years ago) link
<3 u balls
― no one should be offended by the lyrics in this song (stevie), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:32 (ten years ago) link
"actually"
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:33 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZj4Cb-2bfE
― markers, Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:33 (ten years ago) link
also there is little that has made me more ashamed of music journalism as a "thing" than twitter
― no one should be offended by the lyrics in this song (stevie), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:33 (ten years ago) link
He started baiting Ed saying "I'm happier than you because I have a family" and Ed said "I'm gay" and Ott said "why are you suggesting that homosexuals cannot start families" and "are you coming on to me" plus "I fathered my children in a natural way" followed by "you're a Nazi". Ed is my bud and I'll always be on his side regardless but I thought he handled this idiotic motherfucker with an exceptional amount of dignity
― ship who you wanna ship (flamboyant goon tie included), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:35 (ten years ago) link
when u have a family & they're asleep at the same time & u are still awake shit-talking indie rock musicians online u will understand happiness
― mookieproof, Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:35 (ten years ago) link
if there's anything worse than an aggressive straight male music guy, it's an aggressive straight male music guy with a Twitter account who emulates dom
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:36 (ten years ago) link
@edwarddroste@shallowrewards go to bed. Your kids will be up soon.
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:41 (ten years ago) link
i don't see why it matters that the whole family is asleep at the same time, seems like ott has some zingcraft problems to work out
― j., Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:48 (ten years ago) link
http://www.tvworthwatching.com/blog/2008/12/11/shield-finale-shane-family-.jpg
― balls, Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:59 (ten years ago) link
just some sad angry man struggling with the fact that he's completely irrelevant. this is why i quit caring about silly things a long time ago.
― illegalblues, Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:25 (ten years ago) link
― Geoffrey Schweppes (jaymc), Sunday, August 18, 2013 3:16 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
no just that i figured dude who pulled an embarrassing perpetua photo from the depths of the internet after being called "the frasier of indie rock" wouldn't take the high road after being called a nazi
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:35 (ten years ago) link
pulled an embarrassing perpetua photo from the depths of the internet
https://twitter.com/edwarddroste/status/276073021842792450
― markers, Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:38 (ten years ago) link
this is why i quit caring about silly things a long time ago.
very glad that i've spent as much time on this as i have
― markers, Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:39 (ten years ago) link
just as bad! xp
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:39 (ten years ago) link
@edwarddroste@shallowrewards go to bed. Your kids will be up soon.― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Sunday, August 18, 2013 3:41 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark
Damn
― 乒乓, Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:43 (ten years ago) link
Just in case this hadn't already hit a new level of sad, I'm pretty sure Ott has either paid someone or gamed the system to get a lot of his twitter followers. Just too many fake accounts in there. Perhaps that's his IT gig?
― Position Position, Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:45 (ten years ago) link
buying followers to get up to 8k is pretty sad indeed
― some dude, Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:46 (ten years ago) link
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-000-Twitter-followers-/261267197940?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd4bd0ff4
― 乒乓, Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:50 (ten years ago) link
i could do a lot w/ that money
― markers, Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:51 (ten years ago) link
― some dude, Sunday, August 18, 2013 4:46 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark
remember, he makes $94k base with bennies... he's definitely not breaking the piggy bank here. i'm impressed
― 乒乓, Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:55 (ten years ago) link
give it to me instead
― markers, Sunday, 18 August 2013 20:56 (ten years ago) link
I dunno, I like him.
― abcfsk, Sunday, 18 August 2013 22:20 (ten years ago) link
this guy seems like a nutball.
― Poliopolice, Sunday, 18 August 2013 23:10 (ten years ago) link
Watched this play out yesterday morning. Whether you like Grizzly Bear or not, Ed is a lovely guy with a huge amount of time for his fans and a genuine curiosity and interest in the music press (that is to say that there's no way he doesn't know who Ott or Perpetua or whoever are - he knows who I am, ffs). I've never seen him be anything other than gentlemanly, good-humoured, and humble on Twitter, and I thought he dealt with Ott's frankly pretty disgusting trolling with impeccable restraint and class.
As for Ott... well he's always been a troll to some extent, but this was beyond the pale. Does anybody know why it started, what triggered it?
― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 19 August 2013 08:28 (ten years ago) link
demotion in the IT dept.
― j., Monday, 19 August 2013 08:34 (ten years ago) link
At least old-ILX has retreated into the foothills of social media
― imago, Monday, 19 August 2013 08:41 (ten years ago) link
Big ott
― Charlie Slothrop (wins), Monday, 19 August 2013 09:46 (ten years ago) link
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/images-5/over-the-top-poster.jpg
― no one should be offended by the lyrics in this song (stevie), Monday, 19 August 2013 10:09 (ten years ago) link
with every blow, comes another lie
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 19 August 2013 10:31 (ten years ago) link
can't you feel the 'fork?
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 19 August 2013 11:20 (ten years ago) link
Wait a minute, "The Orc"? WHAT Orc?
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 19 August 2013 12:02 (ten years ago) link
http://students.english.ilstu.edu/rwohara/creation/Orcs.jpg
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 12:04 (ten years ago) link
Needs more bennies, that one.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 19 August 2013 12:18 (ten years ago) link
balls otm
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Monday, 19 August 2013 14:26 (ten years ago) link
balls otm and i am cringing so hard at the lack of dignity on display, what is wrong with people
― lex pretend, Monday, 19 August 2013 14:40 (ten years ago) link
@shallowrewards no I don't want to sleep with you. Stop drunk tweeting and feeling sorry for yourself and take care of your family
― scott seward, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:11 (ten years ago) link
― abcfsk, Sunday, August 18, 2013 10:20 PM
ban this guy. ott-sock.
― scott seward, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:12 (ten years ago) link
It's funny. Another community in which Ott embedded himself (Hipinion) seems to think he's a total badass for acting like this.
― afriendlypioneer, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:14 (ten years ago) link
yeah, the 'you're a gay nazi and I HAVE KIDS" combo is pretty symptomatic
strong self-hatred vibes coming through there, you don't have to be lee edelman to notice that homosexuality is thereby constructed as the decadent/self-indulgent/"sterile" alternative to a manly life of grumpy breadwinning self-sacrifice- it's a common rhetorical move when social conservatives make it, weirdly exotic coming from an indie rock "critic", here it is served with a twist i.e. "now that gays can adopt, you better man up and start a gay family or you're a decadent, bad gay". Fuck that shit.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/78767.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.rankopedia.com/Favourite-Movie-From-Luchino-Visconti/Step1/21025/.htm&h=475&w=262&sz=16&tbnid=7jc4Ih58aIGh6M:&tbnh=186&tbnw=102&zoom=1&usg=__okZUs9BZUnaOX3LBhSCxBqteycI=&docid=t0vatSPLuv_1yM&sa=X&ei=fDYSUoeiC46i4APV2YGgBQ&ved=0CC0Q9QEwAA&dur=55
― the tune was space, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:19 (ten years ago) link
shit, there's people here that think Ott "won" that exchange, so who knows.
― JACK SQUAT about these Charlie Nobodies (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 19 August 2013 15:20 (ten years ago) link
Or he's straight-up trolling like a 13-year-old on his first computer, which might be as bad.
― afriendlypioneer, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:23 (ten years ago) link
Who here thinks Ott 'won'? Ott comes across as a nasty, attention-seeking bigot, and Droste comes across as a decent, polite human being faced with a torrent of twitter effluent.
― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 19 August 2013 15:24 (ten years ago) link
So according to droste's tweets, ott got fired from pfork? Was it just because he was a lousy critic or was there something interesting behind it?
― how's life, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:25 (ten years ago) link
When is Scik Mouthy's Grizzly Bear audition?
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 19 August 2013 15:27 (ten years ago) link
didn't he get booted after the exchange about the dude from Hello Nasty PR a whiles back?
― the husbster (self-professed octopus expert) (stevie), Monday, 19 August 2013 15:46 (ten years ago) link
so seriously, his argument is that Grizzly Bear benefited from the holocaust because they licensed their music to Volkswagen?
― brio, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:47 (ten years ago) link
~think abt it~
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 15:50 (ten years ago) link
and is he really dissing whiney on twitter? now he's really gone too far. that's our job!
― scott seward, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
okay, i weighed in on this subject:
scott seward @skotrok Chris Ott Is Seriously The Worst Thing Ever.Expand
― scott seward, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
― the husbster (self-professed octopus expert) (stevie), Monday, August 19, 2013 11:46 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this was Brent D.
― some dude, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:58 (ten years ago) link
is ott reading this thread? he must be. hello, ott
― 乒乓, Monday, 19 August 2013 15:58 (ten years ago) link
Ott and Weingarten need to form some kind of combustible rockcrit version of Kriss Kross.
― some dude, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:03 (ten years ago) link
The Mack Dad'll make you TAKE! NAZI MONEY!
― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
never heard of this guy, but at least in the old days ppl who soiled themselves in public like this put out good records
(alb1n1, c0sl0y)
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
― some dude, Monday, August 19, 2013 6:03 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Insane Crit Posse
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
was Brent D also an ilxor for a short while? my memory is so fuzzy on this stuff, thankfully.
― the husbster (self-professed octopus expert) (stevie), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
Gathering of the Beefalos
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:11 (ten years ago) link
Brent D himself posts way upthread.
Chris Ott's music:
https://play.spotify.com/artist/595bn4OFL0PEUkfW6ITeQq?play=true&utm_source=open.spotify.com&utm_medium=open
I've never listened to it.
― afriendlypioneer, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:13 (ten years ago) link
that shows impressive restraint for someone who posts the link
― da croupier, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:09 (ten years ago) link
I listened to the first track, which was basically like having a mosquito buzz my ear for two minutes
― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:12 (ten years ago) link
really? hmm, maybe he should start a band with whiney.
― scott seward, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:14 (ten years ago) link
i don't think ott got fired from PF but if he did it was suicide by cop
― J0rdan S., Monday, 19 August 2013 17:14 (ten years ago) link
Nice to see that Totally is up to his old tricks.
I wonder if Ed Droste ever posted on Pitchfork Smackdown.
― polyphonic, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
So...failed musician and failed writer-about-music? Shit, it's no wonder he's degenerated into basement video-blogging. I'm just surprised he's clothed while on camera.
― 誤訳侮辱, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:16 (ten years ago) link
the rest of this ott album is pretty cool actually
the first track isn't representative
it's not great but there's some cool stuff going on in parts
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:18 (ten years ago) link
though i think it's kinda dumb that everyone who does music as a hobby is automatically called a "failed musician" this just seems like a guy making some weird beats for fun
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:19 (ten years ago) link
while i agree, i think it would be fair to call ott a "frustrated musician" as he's a musician and clearly frustrated
― da croupier, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:21 (ten years ago) link
I'm not talking about commercial prospects. I listened to his music, and it fails. As music.
― 誤訳侮辱, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:22 (ten years ago) link
EPIC OTT FAIL
― scott seward, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:24 (ten years ago) link
putting it up on spotify implies that you want it to be more than a hobby though.
― wk, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:27 (ten years ago) link
we are all failed musician
― ship who you wanna ship (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:30 (ten years ago) link
that's not really true. lots of people puts lots of stuff up everywhere. still hate the ott though.
― scott seward, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:31 (ten years ago) link
quality of ott's music or grizzly bear's music or size of island's owned by either or number of courses at the meal you ate last week should have no bearing on what is fucked up twitter harassment in the name of "criticism"
― ship who you wanna ship (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:31 (ten years ago) link
oh yeah he seems like a total fucking dick no question
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
the problem isn't that he's a failed musician or whatever, it's that he's being a psycho. None of his zings at grizzly dude are more than neo-redneck gibberish
Makes no difference if his band sucks. I think it's good when music writers try to play some music or at least dick around with instruments - if only to realize that making really good music is hard, and give em a bit of humility. One would hope. Doesn't seem to have worked that way for Ott but whatevs
― brio, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
I think it's good when music writers try to play some music or at least dick around with instruments
I'd go so far as to insist on it
― ship who you wanna ship (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:36 (ten years ago) link
i didn't know or had forgotten was this dude was like before this incident, so i read the beginning of this here thread, and...
― R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:40 (ten years ago) link
7.4http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/3537-dynasty/
― wk, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:41 (ten years ago) link
This is what Ott wants. Ott knows this is how to market a twitter handle.
― Evan, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:46 (ten years ago) link
7.4: http://www.pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/3667-the-remixes/
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:47 (ten years ago) link
haw
― some dude, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:50 (ten years ago) link
plz don't insist that film critics make movies, I don't get up that early.
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:55 (ten years ago) link
vines are acceptable
― wk, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:55 (ten years ago) link
;)
― ship who you wanna ship (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:58 (ten years ago) link
丂んムレレԾЩ 尺乇Щム尺Ð丂 @shallowrewards 1m@earlxsweat thanks for helping me pay for my million-dollar condo -- love, @ryanpitchfork #hiphopin2013
丂んムレレԾЩ 尺乇Щム尺Ð丂 @shallowrewards 4mWho else can I fuck with, this shit is so fucking boring.
― some dude, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:13 (ten years ago) link
@shallowrewards 3mMan I gotta say Prince William is owning his pattern-baldness better than anyone in world history. Sexy as hell, respect a fucking killer.
― some dude, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theonion.com/articles/father-teaches-son-how-to-fly-into-rage-over-compl,33487/
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
wait, Ott plays drums?? okay, its all coming together now. The Whiney Otters double drum attack will not be denied.
― scott seward, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:21 (ten years ago) link
fuck are you dragging me into this for
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:34 (ten years ago) link
I don't even understand this:
Me: RT @shallowrewards Who else can I fuck with, this shit is so fucking boring. [An entire life, summed up in 57 characters.]
Ott: @burn_amb boring...and looks like a guitar tech.
Is he saying I look like a guitar tech? Or that he does?
― 誤訳侮辱, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:35 (ten years ago) link
i'll give you one guess
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2012/12/6/14/enhanced-buzz-9394-1354823884-4.jpg....................................................
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3473355368/ddfac9389a3e6aca555d39cc201c0c5e.jpeg
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:38 (ten years ago) link
lmfao
― J0rdan S., Monday, 19 August 2013 18:39 (ten years ago) link
That photo of me is at least 10 years old.
― 誤訳侮辱, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:40 (ten years ago) link
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/karmacorn/sleazy.jpg
― 誤訳侮辱, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:42 (ten years ago) link
― 誤訳侮辱, Monday, August 19, 2013 2:40 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
this is a hilarious retort considering it's your chosen twitter avatar
― J0rdan S., Monday, 19 August 2013 18:45 (ten years ago) link
I'm not disavowing it or anything; I'm just saying, twitter avatar may not accurately reflect reality of person tweeting.
― 誤訳侮辱, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:49 (ten years ago) link
"fuck are you dragging me into this for"
eh it was just the cranky indie rock writer drummer thing. no offense. i LIKE you. hate the ott.
― scott seward, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:49 (ten years ago) link
I don't really want to engage with this because it's the epitome of NAGL but did he spend last night proclaiming his heterosexuality as a setup for today's swooning over Prince William?
― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:51 (ten years ago) link
http://vimeo.com/50499530
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:58 (ten years ago) link
Re-reading your 33 1/3 book on Unknown Pleasures and it's taken on a whole new slant as I now have your voice in my head
― markers, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
there are pills u can take for that
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:02 (ten years ago) link
so what is going on here
― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:04 (ten years ago) link
omg that video. hahahaha
― wk, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:06 (ten years ago) link
nice find ums
― R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:08 (ten years ago) link
'telling' as they say
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, August 19, 2013 2:58 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is a lot more entertaining if you imagine that there's a loaded handgun on the table in front of him
― call all destroyer, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:08 (ten years ago) link
pointed which way
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:09 (ten years ago) link
up to you, my friend
― call all destroyer, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:13 (ten years ago) link
"i just think people are tired of, um, people are tired of reading the same thing in 20 different places. i think they're tired of top ten lists. i feel like we've kinda failed... to do anything with the internet. we're not doing anything that's helping anyone."
"i know. but nobody has to die today, chris. we can all walk out of here, ok?"
― R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:16 (ten years ago) link
"There's more levels of passes at the Pitchfork festival than there are levels of security in the US government! Think about it!"
― brio, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:24 (ten years ago) link
I couldn't get past the part where he claimed that print mags knew more about their readers than internet advertisers. Is it worth watching more?
― wk, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:27 (ten years ago) link
Depends how much you like listening to weird angry muttering. I dug it.
― brio, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:29 (ten years ago) link
so good
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:33 (ten years ago) link
would he feel comfortable saying this stuff if his real name was attached to it? (the twitter stuff)
― markers, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:34 (ten years ago) link
do black helicopters show up at the end?
― wk, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:42 (ten years ago) link
so sad that ott failed the children of the internet. he only wants to raise them the way he was raised.??????????????????????
― scott seward, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:50 (ten years ago) link
man does whiney make six figures? crazy
― flopson, Monday, 19 August 2013 21:35 (ten years ago) link
Whiney G. B.M.F. Weingarten
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 August 2013 21:37 (ten years ago) link
we're not doing anything that's helping anyone."
this just made me realize that whiney and john roderick in the same room together would make the universe collapse
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 21:39 (ten years ago) link
The SR video series is entertaining. He only seems to _write in half-formed caps lock metaphors these days but in video form the arguments were engaging whether I agreed or not.
― abcfsk, Monday, 19 August 2013 22:40 (ten years ago) link
there's definitely a mumblecore lester bangs vibe that can be amusing when he's informing rather than seething
― da croupier, Monday, 19 August 2013 22:59 (ten years ago) link
if he honestly wanted to spotlight cool random shit rather than bitch about how stupid other writers are those videos would be dope, but the level of transparent resentment is just so high
― da croupier, Monday, 19 August 2013 23:05 (ten years ago) link
'they don't care about music -- they just want attention'
― mookieproof, Monday, 19 August 2013 23:08 (ten years ago) link
tynan delong meets mark david chapman
― balls, Monday, 19 August 2013 23:15 (ten years ago) link
like many an ilxor, i have no right to call out anybody who decided/accepted that making a life of profesh music crit was for the birds/not for them, but clearly doesn't have better things to do than gawk and snark from the sideline. but making a series of web vids about how wrong, wrong, wrong everybody is while crowing about how you've got a real deal grade a middle class life while gay-baiting the dude from grizzly bear (and @ing other critics to make sure they know you're doing it) is just...yeesh.
― da croupier, Monday, 19 August 2013 23:21 (ten years ago) link
also I'm pretty sure people do in fact want more top 10 lists
― wk, Monday, 19 August 2013 23:30 (ten years ago) link
This whole thing made me realise this generation of kids will be able to browse the twitter's history of their parents and really, daddy? ed droste?
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 19 August 2013 23:32 (ten years ago) link
This guy is a bitter fool.
― van smack, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:49 (ten years ago) link
can't believe a dude with opinions is running around writing about music
― beans on toast and ghosts (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:52 (ten years ago) link
i think that's ott's position towards everyone else, is the thing
― some dude, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:55 (ten years ago) link
wk otm
― R'LIAH (goole), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 03:31 (ten years ago) link
this is a lot more entertaining if you imagine that there's a loaded handgun on the table in front of himso good― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, August 19, 2013 7:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, August 19, 2013 7:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
― marcos, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 05:26 (ten years ago) link
only way to view it imo
― marcos, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 05:27 (ten years ago) link
Just watched some of his other videos. Very informative and interesting, tbf. Too bad he cant just stick to that kind of thing.
― Hooks on Phoenix worked for me (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 05:35 (ten years ago) link
"We know how to read webtstats, son. *snicker* Yeah, we're BEGGING to inflate our worth. Money is made on valid stats, you think we fooled New Line Cinema with hocum? You. Are. Always (I can only assume). Wrong."
"page views, all these metrics that they use to sell advertising are completely worthless"
― Fetchboy, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 06:51 (ten years ago) link
If you're so wizened with "the biz", Don, you know I can't discuss the particulars of any current negotiations, but they involve syndication. And dwarf SPIN and RS's readership combined.
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:37 PM (9 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Book it.
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 12:05 (ten years ago) link
This is as far as I got. Serious question: do other people get this emotional about this stuff?
― Tim F, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 12:32 (ten years ago) link
o/
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 12:40 (ten years ago) link
WHY DO YOU MOCK MY PAIN uh
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 12:53 (ten years ago) link
won't someone please think of the internet?
― Neil S, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 13:01 (ten years ago) link
― Tim F, Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:32 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
depends on what prescriptions they're taking, or what prescriptions they've stopped taking.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 13:10 (ten years ago) link
"This whole thing made me realise this generation of kids will be able to browse the twitter's history of their parents and really, daddy? ed droste?"
OTM. Can't imagine that his kids or wife know anything about the recent nonsense, but I am embarrassed for them.
― grandavis, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:31 (ten years ago) link
Page views don't seem to be as important a metric for advertisers as they used to be
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:36 (ten years ago) link
oh yeah? what are they looking for?
― R'LIAH (goole), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
number of shares/likes ("engagement") & dwell time
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:31 (ten years ago) link
page views are still the dominant metric only because much better ones (time on site for instance) are still in their infancy
but page views are so easily manipulated
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:31 (ten years ago) link
you can't trust that shit
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:34 (ten years ago) link
(time on site for instance) are still in their infancy
is it seen this way? this + ~engagement~ were my primary metrics last time i was doing this stuff for a gig & nobody complained, but that could be because because nobody understood what i was supposed to be doing anyway.
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:36 (ten years ago) link
http://vimeo.com/51405581
"i mean you're looking at a guy in a basement"
― am0n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:36 (ten years ago) link
We are all of us in a basement, but some of us are looking at a guy in a basement.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:45 (ten years ago) link
ugh, yeah, i'm not making fun of him anymore. all of a sudden i feel bad now. that vid is the last i need to see. i don't actually HATE him. i don't even know him. just that persona here and elsewhere. really rubs me the wrong way. that weary thing too in the videos. blah. weary of all the fuckin' bullshit, man. life is rough.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:46 (ten years ago) link
that could be because because nobody understood what i was supposed to be doing anyway.
ding ding ding ding
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:46 (ten years ago) link
Fader? FACT? Pitchfork? You know, you go all the way through to the really, um, editorially focused sites. You know, Collapse Board and these message boards. Um, ILM. You know, Pre-fix Mag. This just goes on and on and on. And…it just stretches everything way too thin.
― how's life, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:47 (ten years ago) link
and i blame you guys too cuz i never think of this stuff unless you guys bring it up. i think i'm really just still mad at him dissing lansing-dreiden. that's really what it's all about.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:49 (ten years ago) link
on a human level I sympathize with people who are sad and frustrated, but that doesn't license him to lash out at somebody else, and the gleeful wielding of the word "sunsetting" by a critic against a musician just reeks of free-floating resentimment against the object (Music) he supposedly is so passionate about. once you add in the homophobic animus that he pointed at ed, it's harder still to feel any sympathy.
just remember: the great thing about being a family man is that eventually the wife and kids go to sleep and you can get online and chat with cute gay guys
― the tune was space, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:31 AM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i dunno people tell us time on site, unique viewers, bounce rates etc are important, it's changed a lot in the last 5 years i think
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
& engagement as hoos said
We are all of us in a basement, but some of us are looking at a guy in a basement.― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:45 AM
sometimes the guy in the basement stares back is what youre saying
― am0n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:03 (ten years ago) link
his whole point in that vid is that there are too many portals and magazines and websites?? wtf that's not true.
― R'LIAH (goole), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:05 (ten years ago) link
ok just emailed our head of ad sales and he said that unique visitors is by far the number one metric and page views is "secondary in terms of importance"
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
I'm really only going to worry if he crawls out of the screen with his hair in his eyes.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:08 (ten years ago) link
no joke: I have no idea what they are.
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
tom selleck wants his mustache back
― am0n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
and then his solution is writers like julian cope who have their own site? confusing stuff.
― wk, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:11 (ten years ago) link
for once you're actually not missing anything
― wk, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:14 (ten years ago) link
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2012/12/6/14/enhanced-buzz-9394-1354823884-4.jpghttp://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/28600000/Ned-Flanders-ned-flanders-28668597-1000-1000.gif
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:15 (ten years ago) link
It's like Between Two Ferns if you took out the guests, the jokes and the ferns
― da croupier, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:18 (ten years ago) link
http://oi43.tinypic.com/28jy9hz.jpg
― am0n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:24 (ten years ago) link
no joke: I have no idea what they are.― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:09 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vines_(band)
― am0n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:25 (ten years ago) link
ok whenever anyone posts a tinypic, i click the link and get a page full of ads and then the pic appears like 5 seconds later. not sure how that "pageview" gets calculated but i hope some droplet of my rage makes it into the stats
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:27 (ten years ago) link
morbs, check these great vines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoEmsjIYj1s
― how's life, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:29 (ten years ago) link
wow vine sucks
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:42 (ten years ago) link
lolll
― ship who you wanna ship (flamboyant goon tie included), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:48 (ten years ago) link
wow vine sucks --usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown)
ladies and gentlemen, someone schooling us on online strategy
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:53 (ten years ago) link
i've seen vine before whiney, i wasn't schooling you on 'online strategy' just saying that page views don't matter as much anymore
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:57 (ten years ago) link
you're the one who makes 150K with full bennies u should know this stuff
― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:58 (ten years ago) link
viney g. vinegarten more like it
― socki (s1ocki), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:00 (ten years ago) link
All hitting F5 on ilx a bunch of times then close up on his face "WHO GIVES A SHIT?"
― how's life, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:04 (ten years ago) link
would watch
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:05 (ten years ago) link
i make 94k. base
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:07 (ten years ago) link
thank you 94k base god
― da croupier, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:09 (ten years ago) link
god damnit i was literally about to make that my display name
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:10 (ten years ago) link
is he really @PitchforkMe? :(
― i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:12 (ten years ago) link
https://vine.co/v/hMLVA1emhej
― markers, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:16 (ten years ago) link
man see u
― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:46 (ten years ago) link
pitch a fork @ me i'm done
― am0n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:12 (ten years ago) link
I was watching the basement video and there was some dust on my screen right where his mustache was and I whipped it with my finger and then it just felt like I was having an intimate moment so I bailed on the video. Oh well.
― Evan, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:42 (ten years ago) link
Ah, the plot of Spike Jonze's new film.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:43 (ten years ago) link
Tweets of Rage off Ott's Basement Tapes now up on spotify
― touch. zing touch. you've almost convinced me I'm real (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:48 (ten years ago) link
http://mimo.recordingconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/her-poster-joaquin-phoenix-628x628.jpg
When u have a family & they're asleep at the same time u will understand happiness
― wk, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:48 (ten years ago) link
Ninety-Four-Thousand Dollar Bash
― touch. zing touch. you've almost convinced me I'm real (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:51 (ten years ago) link
taking the potatoes down to be mashed
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:54 (ten years ago) link
Gentlemen, it has come to my attention that a breakaway Russian Republic called Kreplachistan will be transferring a nuclear warhead to the United Nations in a few days. Here's the plan. We get the warhead and we hold the world ransom for 94k and full bennies.
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
i just died @ "you wanna go see people who are young and sexy just like you!"
― some dude, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 19:03 (ten years ago) link
not even tiny montgomery makes 94k base
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 19:17 (ten years ago) link
forget bennies
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 20:01 (ten years ago) link
suggest bennies
― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 20:12 (ten years ago) link
Maybe he meant 49K and bennies.
― how's life, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 21:42 (ten years ago) link
18 and life
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:07 (ten years ago) link
http://rlv.zcache.com/bennies_go_home_jersey_shore_t_shirt-r1d55f887c2d54363bf90059701b32ba8_804gs_512.jpg
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 02:27 (ten years ago) link
that video was so weird and meandering and pointless.
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 03:13 (ten years ago) link
"When we keep doing this and participating in this way, it confuses the kids."
"You can't just say this is the best album ever recorded ... that album is going to say it for itself."
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 03:16 (ten years ago) link
"Over in that direction, Over the Top of those mountains,“ Nobodaddy shouted back, “is the unusual land of Oh-tee-tee, Ott, a land ringed by bright waters, whose denizens, the Otters, are devoted to all forms of excess. They talk too much, eat too much, drink too much, sleep too much, swim too much, chew too much betel nut, and they are without any question the rudest creatures in the world. But it's an equal-opportunity impoliteness, the Otters all lay into one another without discrimination, and as a result they have all grown so thick-skinned that nobody minds what anyone else says. It's a funny place, everyone laughs all the time while they call one another the worst things in the world. That lady up there is their Sultana, their Queen, but because she's the most brilliant and sharp-tongued abuse of them all, everyone calls her the 'Insult-ana.' It was her idea to take the battle to the Respectorate, because she respects nobody and nothing. You could almost call Ott the 'Disrespectorate,' and dissing is unquestionably what they do best-- Look at her!” he broke off, admiring the Queen. “Isn't she gorgeous when she's angry?”
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 10 November 2013 19:49 (ten years ago) link
:D
― imago, Sunday, 10 November 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
FULL BENNIES, BITCHEZZZ
has anyone named their band Full Bennies yet? Cuz I'm thinking I should take it.
― Poliopolice, Wednesday, 13 November 2013 23:20 (ten years ago) link
I am considering naming my bleeding haemorrhoids Poliopolice bands.
― Damo Suzuki's Parrot, Wednesday, 13 November 2013 23:41 (ten years ago) link
Apparently he spent Thanksgiving weekend not giving thanks?
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 1 December 2013 18:44 (ten years ago) link
hmm?
― EZ Snappin, Sunday, 1 December 2013 18:48 (ten years ago) link
Like he became the crabby bullshit uncle at Thanksgiving we've all heard about.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 1 December 2013 18:56 (ten years ago) link
and this surprised folks?
― EZ Snappin, Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
Wish people would stop taking the bait.
Also: http://laurasnapes.tumblr.com/post/68689072745/who-are-you-to-say-whats-significant
― Murgatroid, Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:11 (ten years ago) link
He does Chris Ott better than anybody, he might as well get in on it.
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:13 (ten years ago) link
Ok what's going on?
― lorde willin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:14 (ten years ago) link
let me guess: a person on this earth did something condemnable that we can now condemn if we so choose
― sleepingbag, Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:17 (ten years ago) link
I need deets bruh
― lorde willin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:18 (ten years ago) link
i don't; i condemn the person/thing. smh wtf etc go broncos
― sleepingbag, Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
Apparently this is the cause of the kerfuffle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHo9XHm3tWY
― EZ Snappin, Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:24 (ten years ago) link
Try watching this Vikings/Bears game & you'll be begging for some choice nuggs of Ott drama
― lorde willin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:25 (ten years ago) link
Haha... Damn..
― lorde willin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:47 (ten years ago) link
so his alternative to writers who are getting paid, however little, is to do it themselves and not get paid and also provide free content for twitter and tumblr?
― sleepingbag, Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:50 (ten years ago) link
Does he have scoliosis?
Why does he light the room that way, ugh
― polyphonic, Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:52 (ten years ago) link
"All you people living in Bushwick excited about seeing new bands...why are you giving this exuberance to this company?"
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:53 (ten years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/lHoc33e.jpg
Do you think he consciously goes for this look. I bet he does
― 乒乓, Sunday, 1 December 2013 19:59 (ten years ago) link
Chris Ott: 'True Blue' was a big ass hit for Madonna. I don't even follow this Tops In Pops shit, and I've at least heard of "True Blue".
― 乒乓, Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:00 (ten years ago) link
Kidnapping Bushwicker for non-hip Deniece Williams dancing.
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTUxMDU1Mjk5MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMjI1MTkxNA@@._V1._SX640_SY956_.jpg
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:02 (ten years ago) link
it's just a matter of time until we have to change this thread title because he's actually begun taking prisoners
― some dude, Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:29 (ten years ago) link
drawing attention to the DIY scene-journalism-advertising-venture capital foodchain seems worthwhile to me
at least, I'll take this over slinging homophobic taunts at Grizzlybros
― the tune was space, Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:29 (ten years ago) link
it's not an either/or thing, he can do both! he's a renaissance man!
― some dude, Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:34 (ten years ago) link
He's replaced his homophobia with a barely-veiled creepy targeting of female music writers
― Murgatroid, Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:44 (ten years ago) link
renaissance. man.
― some dude, Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:46 (ten years ago) link
With bennies
― 乒乓, Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:48 (ten years ago) link
Ugh this guy sucks
― goth drama is universal (latebloomer), Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:48 (ten years ago) link
there ott-a be a law
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:49 (ten years ago) link
There oughta be a windscreen on that mic.
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:55 (ten years ago) link
otm generally, but he actually spends like 3/4 of the video exhibiting funny ways to call pro journalists stupid rather than drawing out a helpful analysis. also, like sleepingbag said, his proposed alternative seems to be that writers give away the same content for free, easy to say when you've already got long bennies
― een, Sunday, 1 December 2013 21:35 (ten years ago) link
there's an interesting (sort of) move going on in which he pre-empts the accusation that he's just old and stuck in nostalgia for his own DIY scene glory days by delegitimizing and pooh-pooh-ing his own regional scenester past- I don't mean to be Capt. Save-a-Ott but that shows at least some self-awareness about the problem of the older/wiser platform from which he's castigating millenials for being sheeple / naive about the corporate entanglements of web media (tho it also makes you wonder about whether that's just another form of navel-gazing self-importance too)
(said the 42 year old just before running away)
― the tune was space, Sunday, 1 December 2013 21:40 (ten years ago) link
I prefer this stuff when it's coming from dash snowden
― 乒乓, Sunday, 1 December 2013 21:45 (ten years ago) link
He poo-poos his old scene because it included people who weren't him. It took him awhile to realize that he's the only person who mattered.
― polyphonic, Sunday, 1 December 2013 21:54 (ten years ago) link
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=1Q-fkC4aRwUigM&tbnid=hVR8S7V843KuEM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fguyspeed.com%2Fdrunk-uncle-snl%2F&ei=urCbUqnFLI_xoASQr4E4&bvm=bv.57155469,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNH7-lVg9QOZLARXp1E6iXybeJ0DJw&ust=1386021420457481
― da croupier, Sunday, 1 December 2013 21:57 (ten years ago) link
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/guyspeed.com/files/2013/07/Uncle-4.gif
by delegitimizing and pooh-pooh-ing his own regional scenester past
Is he really delegitimizing and pooh-pooh-ing his scenester past though. Isn't he saying that he was part of a purer and cleaner scene because they weren't playing for viewcounts and retweets but were only "doing it to have fun" or whatever.
― 乒乓, Sunday, 1 December 2013 22:04 (ten years ago) link
Must ...not ... link to that one Onion article again.
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 1 December 2013 22:18 (ten years ago) link
His presentation in that video is just hilarious. Like I have no idea exactly what effect he's going for but the tired concerned sad look plus thinly veiled contempt in his voice plus full frame pompadour just makes for near constant giggles on my part.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Sunday, 1 December 2013 22:28 (ten years ago) link
he doesn't understand how money works
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Sunday, 1 December 2013 22:48 (ten years ago) link
"it's not just that i'm older" omg
i like how he points to "the same thirteen million amount, its spooky."
this is some glen beck level fight the new world order going on
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Sunday, 1 December 2013 22:49 (ten years ago) link
i don't know what he's angry about.
cue josie "they're using.. our music.. to sell stuff!"
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Sunday, 1 December 2013 23:04 (ten years ago) link
if not for this guy the nme might start publishing insignificant journalism regularly way to take a bold stand
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Sunday, 1 December 2013 23:07 (ten years ago) link
I "get" what he's doing, and find it weirdly watchable—then again, I spent most of the afternoon drunk+banging my head on the floor, so being yelled at by an aging punk could be seen as a step up
― confused subconscious U2 association (bernard snowy), Sunday, 1 December 2013 23:33 (ten years ago) link
he seems to me to be presenting himself as earnest-but-uncool relic of a bygone era ("zine culture") lecturing kids today on what that culture was, why that culture died, what replaced it, and why contemporary artists and journalists who have latched on to its ideals and tried to run with them are fucking it all up
― confused subconscious U2 association (bernard snowy), Sunday, 1 December 2013 23:37 (ten years ago) link
I keep thinking of the grad student in Slacker who videos his manifesto before taking his advising committee hostage.
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 1 December 2013 23:38 (ten years ago) link
― some dude, Sunday, December 1, 2013 3:29 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 1 December 2013 23:39 (ten years ago) link
niiiice
― confused subconscious U2 association (bernard snowy), Sunday, 1 December 2013 23:39 (ten years ago) link
actual lol @ that sd quote
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 2 December 2013 01:34 (ten years ago) link
i for one was shocked to find out that media company bosses make more than the people writing articles for those companies. capitalism gone mad
until i saw that video i had no idea how much charlie sheen had let himself go
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Monday, 2 December 2013 02:00 (ten years ago) link
I already nailed it with the Nice Guy Eddie reference upthread. No further celebrity comparisons will be allowed from this point on
― 乒乓, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:03 (ten years ago) link
That video is so weird. It's got the not-terrible analysis of the big picture economics of the media landscape, paired with the weird attribution of responsibility for this situation to writers and bands. And then the demand that writers publish their work for free so they can remain pure, instead of pushing forth what Ott views as an irredeemably corrupt system.
It seems like an analogue of the "buy ethical" argument, this idea that it's incredibly crucial to make sure you're never purchasing anything that has any dicey production practices. Which I think everyone does in certain doses, but becomes a total dead end when taken to extremes. If you spend all your time making sure you never make "unethical" purchases, you end up spending a ton of time, money, and energy that you could have spent more actively making the earth less terrible.
― intheblanks, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:18 (ten years ago) link
That's not even getting into the digressions about NME, and how dare they try to draw attention to a scene that's not actually significant, like that's this weird new thing that NME is doing in 2013.
No further celebrity comparisons will be allowed from this point on
His hair and mustache always remind me of GWAR manager Sleazy P. Martini.
― Humorist (horse) (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 2 December 2013 02:21 (ten years ago) link
i'm actually somewhat confused by the idea that music mags/sites aren't supposed to make money for the vc firms that invest in them.
i really don't think that's how vc works.
also i think he's a smidge off on trader bonuses, in general.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Monday, 2 December 2013 02:26 (ten years ago) link
i mean lol "multiples of 6 figures".
i guess when your ladder reaches all the way to $94k base then quantities above that become a bit... fuzzy.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Monday, 2 December 2013 02:27 (ten years ago) link
dude really spends a lot of time bitterly subtweeting... someone
― socki (s1ocki), Monday, 2 December 2013 02:28 (ten years ago) link
oh and he neglects the main reason ppl want to write for big sites -- not necessarily so they can say they're paid, but to get more exposure. like he of all ppl should understand writers and egos.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Monday, 2 December 2013 02:28 (ten years ago) link
what a weird thing for him to hone in though... some woman who wrote an article about a little regional scene? shouldnt that be the kind of writing he IS championing?
― socki (s1ocki), Monday, 2 December 2013 02:30 (ten years ago) link
But you see she did it and got a small fee for it. It would have been better had she not been paid at all
― 乒乓, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:30 (ten years ago) link
I think he maybe has a point about media/vc, in that sometimes media properties are allowed to be loss leaders in order to give a veneer of prestige or cool to corporations. The Atlantic Monthly, for example, wasn't profitable for decades.
― intheblanks, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:31 (ten years ago) link
down with the corporate oligarchy! down with reporting on small regional scenes! up with, uh.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Monday, 2 December 2013 02:32 (ten years ago) link
The New Yorker is also a huge loss leader for Condé Nast iirc
― 乒乓, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:33 (ten years ago) link
still think his overall argument is weak, for the record, and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets details wrong re: monetary amounts and other things
― intheblanks, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:33 (ten years ago) link
― intheblanks, Sunday, December 1, 2013 9:31 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
but the problem here is its usually the individual rich benefactor with a prestige project that sustains publications that don't do well. freefloating investment groups care much less about that stuff and much more about just making a quick buck.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Monday, 2 December 2013 02:35 (ten years ago) link
Just had the insight that the term "loss leader" here is just the idea of patronage recontextualized for the 20th and 21st century. Need to monetize this idea quick
― 乒乓, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:37 (ten years ago) link
xpost Yeah, you're probably right. it would certainly explain the ridiculous turnover at Spin.
Maybe Ott just really wants a ton of on-the-scene reporting from Rich Antoniello. He was pretty mad that guy doesn't have any skin in the game.
― intheblanks, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:37 (ten years ago) link
the odd thing is that he seems to think he's dropping truth bombs on every other writer, but what does HE imagine that WE imagine the reality is? he thinks the rest of us are walking around thinking that every place that still pays for music writing is faultless and noble and that covering important music is their #1 priority and entire plan for reaping profit?
― some dude, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:45 (ten years ago) link
honestly what I might find most puzzling about this is claiming you can't live in NYC on $50,000 a year
― katherine, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:53 (ten years ago) link
51K is median HOUSEHOLD income in NYC
― intheblanks, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:58 (ten years ago) link
average NYer just ain't living
― intheblanks, Monday, 2 December 2013 02:59 (ten years ago) link
Not super-shocked by that, though. The internet is full of upper-middle class/fully upper class folk imagining a 6-figure income is the "middle."
It usually takes the form of morphing an actual fact ("The cost of living is higher in NYC.") into a self-serving fantasy ("100K in NYC is 50K in every other city.")
― intheblanks, Monday, 2 December 2013 03:12 (ten years ago) link
That's not even touching the issue of bennies
― intheblanks, Monday, 2 December 2013 03:15 (ten years ago) link
this whole thing just makes me very YOU AIN'T GOT THE ANSWERS, SWAY! because it seems like he's just scolding anyone who's not doing the exact thing he's doing without suggesting any real alternatives and frankly, we don't all have the amazingly hypnotic hair it takes to be a vlogger.
― some dude, Monday, 2 December 2013 03:23 (ten years ago) link
Think there is somebody missing from this thread: Sticky-Uppy Hair
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 2 December 2013 03:31 (ten years ago) link
these videos resemble joe pesci in jfk more and more
― papa smango (fadanuf4erybody), Monday, 2 December 2013 03:39 (ten years ago) link
― 乒乓, Sunday, December 1, 2013 9:33 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is a good thing imho?
― socki (s1ocki), Monday, 2 December 2013 04:08 (ten years ago) link
tbh i think it's the "he has to offer an alternative" that fucks this all up -- he DOES offer an alternative, it's just dumb and misguided, and the whole thing would've just been better as a floating rant about how badly the industry has changed wrt the branding and the money (this has happened in every industry but w/e). maybe he's smart enough to know that nothing he says in his dumb vlog is ever going to change the way the venture capitalists and whatnot act, and he needed SOMEONE to yell at, so, uh, why not the plebes feeding the machine? guess he's not smart enough to know that there'll ALWAYS be people willing to make 5 cents a word to replace all these new tumblr martyrs? idgi
there really is nothing he can say to anyone that'll change the way the system works. he just ends up coming off as a dude using an otm rant about capitalism to cover up his baseless disdain for certain writers
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Monday, 2 December 2013 04:20 (ten years ago) link
also jfc how old is chris? how can he possibly have this super-old-person "you have the whole internet at your fingertips! your opportunities are endless! the world wide web is a real game-changer!" attitude? this is so close to my mom telling me that i need to start making tutorials for things and putting them on youtube "i don't know how but i think you just have to put tutorials on youtube and you'll start getting money"
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Monday, 2 December 2013 04:36 (ten years ago) link
when the vid started in on those bands from the early-mid 80s i thought "oh wait was that his scene, i guess he has been around for a minute" and then lol headfake his 'scene' was shittier bands from way later. also i thought those early-80s bands were pretty good sounding from the clips and i was thinking maybe he'd big-up them or something?
he's vehemently arguing for the status quo, basically.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Monday, 2 December 2013 04:41 (ten years ago) link
i'll bet that most everything he rails against now is pretty similar to the way things worked in the 90s, the 80s, the 70s, etc. every era has some big magazines or sites or what-have-you that become well-recognized gatekeepers/taste-makers, and i'd bet those magazines or sites invariably become too cozy with their favorite labels or acts.
brb, i gotta go dig out my copy of clap-your-hands-say-yeah.
― Daniel, Esq 2, Monday, 2 December 2013 04:41 (ten years ago) link
Thought those bands sounded fine too, guess I fell for the lol head fake.
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 2 December 2013 04:50 (ten years ago) link
lol yeah my biggest takeaway from the whole thing was "wow i want to listen to the oysters"
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Monday, 2 December 2013 04:51 (ten years ago) link
Haha, me too. In fact head fake fits in with the whole shinola-grin wearing "I know something you don't because I have a third eye that allows me to distinguish among things that are otherwise identical DO U SEE?" vibe.
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 2 December 2013 04:55 (ten years ago) link
anyone know where this guy is from? i kinda figure he's from Boston, woke up one morning, read the story in the NME and got super bitter that it was this new scene and not his old scene that's having a moment, and that's why he zeroed in on the Pelly/NME piece.
― alpine static, Monday, 2 December 2013 05:56 (ten years ago) link
also, yeah, some dude w/ the lol line of the thread
― alpine static, Monday, 2 December 2013 05:57 (ten years ago) link
alpine static
― buzza, Monday, 2 December 2013 07:00 (ten years ago) link
http://www.hipsterrunoff.com/node/8599
this piece did this whole steez much more effectively imo
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 2 December 2013 07:48 (ten years ago) link
I gave up midway through the video. I was getting a weird feeling that Ott was trying to channel Professor Brian O'Blivion in Videodrome and then I couldn't stop laughing.
His argument feels stale. I'm sure I read something similar in Maximum Rock & Roll in the early 90s.
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 2 December 2013 09:34 (ten years ago) link
http://www.cartoonito.co.uk/sites/www.cartoonito.co.uk/files/imagecache/Image-Character-280-280/robbieroten-mainimage.jpg
― how's life, Monday, 2 December 2013 10:15 (ten years ago) link
It's weird that he thinks that writing an article in NME equates to letting us all know about something.
― I got the glares, the mutterings, the snarls (President Keyes), Monday, 2 December 2013 11:35 (ten years ago) link
and that P4K was covering Radiohead before Spin and Rolling Stone
― I got the glares, the mutterings, the snarls (President Keyes), Monday, 2 December 2013 11:38 (ten years ago) link
yeah that was bizarre
― some dude, Monday, 2 December 2013 12:23 (ten years ago) link
http://s.pixogs.com/image/R-2428040-1283501627.jpeg
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 2 December 2013 12:59 (ten years ago) link
http://images.45cat.com/les-baxter-his-chorus-and-orchestra-wake-the-town-and-tell-the-people-capitol.jpghttp://images.45cat.com/les-baxter-his-chorus-and-orchestra-wake-the-town-and-tell-the-people-capitol.jpg
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 2 December 2013 13:01 (ten years ago) link
So he slams the NME for covering a young, obscure, interesting band that the editor and writer both love because "It doesn't translate at scale" and somehow he's the truth-talking dreamer? Sheesh.
lol at "be strong enough to be alone on a Friday night"
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, 2 December 2013 13:30 (ten years ago) link
never 4get
https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/368973419829673984
― goole, Monday, 2 December 2013 17:57 (ten years ago) link
Wait his Twitter avatar is 'The Orc'? I'm glad I missed or forgot that.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 2 December 2013 18:00 (ten years ago) link
"What does the orc say?"
"GODDAMN KIDS *wracking tears*"
ott ends one of these videos crying in a snowy field to slowdive's "blue skied an' clear" so i like to believe that is the sole content of his every vlog
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 2 December 2013 18:21 (ten years ago) link
one sad thing is, when he tries to be the change he wants to see in the world, sitting sans advertising in a snowy field discussing the merits of the Curve oeuvre, no one cares. It's only when he goes drunk uncle and curses the darkness of his fellow writers that other critics and nerds go "oh right, he exists." When he lights a candle, it's just him and a candle.
― da croupier, Monday, 2 December 2013 18:31 (ten years ago) link
Brutal but accurate
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, 2 December 2013 18:32 (ten years ago) link
That's a fair point. I actually do like passionate, enthusiastic Ott better than "Musicians/writers are fucking shills and evil and P4K and ..." Ott
― intheblanks, Monday, 2 December 2013 18:34 (ten years ago) link
this wouldn't be sad, of course, if he was fine sitting with his candle of wisdom, waiting for the young and deluded to come to bask in its glow. but instead he grumbles about how everything's changed and he's seen it all before, arbitrarily shitting on whatever scribe made his radar.
― da croupier, Monday, 2 December 2013 18:35 (ten years ago) link
never 4gethttps://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/368973419829673984― goole, Monday, December 2, 2013 12:57 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― goole, Monday, December 2, 2013 12:57 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
can I just say that every time this comes up I laugh my ass off
― deX! (DJP), Monday, 2 December 2013 18:36 (ten years ago) link
The solipsistic self-regard with which this guy gazes into the camera to disdain and dismiss everybody's epinion but his own reminds me of that one gif of Geir as every single child in Village of the Damned, which I can't look for right now.
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 2 December 2013 18:58 (ten years ago) link
can't wait til the day this guy returns to ilx
― flopson, Monday, 2 December 2013 19:26 (ten years ago) link
http://www.dominicanablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Albrecht-Durer-The-Revelation-of-St-John-12-The-Sea-Monster-and-the-Beast-with-the-Lambs-Horn.jpg
― tylerw, Monday, 2 December 2013 19:28 (ten years ago) link
I wonder how he spends his time besides being dumpy. Maybe he stands behind his friends while he makes them watch videos of himself ranting.
― Evan, Monday, 2 December 2013 19:28 (ten years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/lqNziP6.png
― 乒乓, Monday, 2 December 2013 19:29 (ten years ago) link
was 'besides being dumpy' meant to say 'besides being grumpy'?
― elegant eyes, aristocrat face, gorgeous hair (soref), Monday, 2 December 2013 19:30 (ten years ago) link
oh I hope not
― deX! (DJP), Monday, 2 December 2013 19:30 (ten years ago) link
'I wonder how he spends his time besides being dumpy' is a funny sentence either way.
― elegant eyes, aristocrat face, gorgeous hair (soref), Monday, 2 December 2013 19:31 (ten years ago) link
I meant dumpy, yeah.
― Evan, Monday, 2 December 2013 19:34 (ten years ago) link
k i'm finally watching this and am DYING to know what ethical, non-capitalistic company he gets his 94k and bennies from
― call all destroyer, Monday, 2 December 2013 19:40 (ten years ago) link
^^ exactly
― 乒乓, Monday, 2 December 2013 19:42 (ten years ago) link
Google
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 2 December 2013 19:43 (ten years ago) link
Pitchfork.tv should remake "A Woman Under The Influence" recasting Ott as Mabel.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 2 December 2013 19:43 (ten years ago) link
"the largest fashion corporation....in england"
― call all destroyer, Monday, 2 December 2013 19:44 (ten years ago) link
Like, boomers have been telling millennials since before the crash of 2008 to "follow your bliss" and find a job that you love to do. Okay, that'd be good if you can get it. And some people do get it. Some people love to write about music and they found jobs that paid them money to write about music. But Gen X Chris Ott comes along and says no, that's selling out maaaaaan, you need to do it out of the pureness of your heart. Follow my lead and make 94k with bennies from unchecked corporate capitalism; in your spare time, vlog about music for free. I'm selling out during my day job to capitalism but at least my music writing is pure and untouched. That way you know my opinions about deep album cuts from Moose have not been influenced by InBev.
― 乒乓, Monday, 2 December 2013 19:47 (ten years ago) link
so i think his point is that it was ok for pitchfork to write about radiohead and leverage that into becoming the most influential music website (and make some money in the process) but it's not ok to write about speedy ortiz in nme because speedy ortiz is not a notable enough band to transcend predatory capitalism, and therefore you should be alone on friday night?
― call all destroyer, Monday, 2 December 2013 19:51 (ten years ago) link
also women amirite
― katherine, Monday, 2 December 2013 20:04 (ten years ago) link
call all destroyer plus katherine otm
― intheblanks, Monday, 2 December 2013 20:25 (ten years ago) link
does chris ott have aspergers syndrome? he's like that guy from the vines but he's got a real sad pompadour
― illegalblues, Monday, 2 December 2013 22:11 (ten years ago) link
94k and bennies and my lil rascal to get around safe
cool high road bro
― katherine, Monday, 2 December 2013 22:16 (ten years ago) link
idk, it's not really a put down. i like people that stir the pot. he just seems off
― illegalblues, Monday, 2 December 2013 22:17 (ten years ago) link
trying to diagnose anybody is def nagl
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 2 December 2013 22:39 (ten years ago) link
Hope he applies for this position: http://www.jobscore.com/jobs/buzzfeed/music-editor/cCmHaIw6ar45SiiGakhP3Q
― Murgatroid, Monday, 2 December 2013 22:40 (ten years ago) link
I'm going to say he's bonkers and that's not a medical diagnosis and leave it at that
― mh, Monday, 2 December 2013 22:43 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci40ae8BlcE
― deX! (DJP), Monday, 2 December 2013 22:48 (ten years ago) link
How the fuck do you get benefits when you are on 94K?
― Damo Suzuki's Parrot, Monday, 2 December 2013 23:04 (ten years ago) link
its true ive seen em on the bbc
― Rong Male (wins), Monday, 2 December 2013 23:05 (ten years ago) link
That prick must have watched it !
― Damo Suzuki's Parrot, Monday, 2 December 2013 23:06 (ten years ago) link
in the us 'benefits' means health insurance and stuff
― maura, Monday, 2 December 2013 23:14 (ten years ago) link
Fuck 's sake Maura I was just about to report this tedious cunt to the fucking sooosh!
― Damo Suzuki's Parrot, Monday, 2 December 2013 23:18 (ten years ago) link
hahaha that would have been classic
― deX! (DJP), Monday, 2 December 2013 23:21 (ten years ago) link
wait what does it mean in the not-US
― polyphonic, Monday, 2 December 2013 23:22 (ten years ago) link
welfare, I think?
― deX! (DJP), Monday, 2 December 2013 23:23 (ten years ago) link
People don't boast about benefits in the current climate over here, it has a different meaning.
― Damo Suzuki's Parrot, Monday, 2 December 2013 23:31 (ten years ago) link
so it means being close to sea level? (current climate)
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Monday, 2 December 2013 23:33 (ten years ago) link
It means the atmospheric hatred that is allowed to exist and always has existed.
― Damo Suzuki's Parrot, Monday, 2 December 2013 23:43 (ten years ago) link
yeah, we have no real government assistance so "benefits" means health insurance, dental if you're lucky, retirement plan, and your own vlog
― mh, Monday, 2 December 2013 23:55 (ten years ago) link
I've been sticking $30 in bennies up my ass for the past 11 years
― Tip from Tae Kwon Do: (crüt), Monday, 2 December 2013 23:58 (ten years ago) link
$30 copay per visit and free vlog xp XD
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 00:00 (ten years ago) link
whenever i hear bennies i always think of benzedrine because i am time traveler from the 1950s
― it's going to be a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5PtyrewSs (latebloomer), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 00:04 (ten years ago) link
not just an isolated tweet -- that is his standard response to criticism
― zanarkand bozo (abanana), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 00:13 (ten years ago) link
This fucking bell-end is sat, swilling his brandy. Contemplating how many doughnuts follow him on twitter, how many fucking people on this thread are discussing him right now and he is a complete bell end with a stupid fucking punchable face, who talks lame student shite about an era of music that nobody gives a fuck about.
― Damo Suzuki's Parrot, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 00:24 (ten years ago) link
fooking students innit
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 00:39 (ten years ago) link
I've been sticking $30 in bennies up my ass for the past 11 years --Tip from Tae Kwon Do: (crüt)
dying
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 03:51 (ten years ago) link
<i> does chris ott have aspergers syndrome? he's like that guy from the vines but he's got a real sad pompadour </i>
@SadPompadour isn't taken if anybody wants to create a Shallow Rewards parody account
― asthmatic american, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:12 (ten years ago) link
man the courage it must've taken them to stand up to rolling stone, look fuckin wenner in the eye and say "YOU SHOULD PUT RADIOHEAD ON THE COVER OF YOUR MAGAZINE"
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:55 (ten years ago) link
yup, they held the hopes of a generation. they were looking history in the eye.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
go for credit in the spin worldlook a wenner in the eye
― how's life, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:06 (ten years ago) link
Why does he take himself so seriously?
― afriendlypioneer, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:15 (ten years ago) link
^this
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:19 (ten years ago) link
hey i mean i'm just glad they did it...bands like radiohead have had to fight tooth and nail for respect from the rock crit establishment
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:33 (ten years ago) link
96g, bennies, and 1000s of comments? just call him ot-win
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:57 (ten years ago) link
It's kind of sad to see Ott flailing around in the dark like this, just looking for a target to hit without enough thought going into what he's saying. Still, I miss the days when an Ott or a True or a Wells would be given room at a major pub.
― Position Position, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 16:59 (ten years ago) link
did that actually happen? i don't really have a good handle of where he's written, all i know is he was at PF before it was really a major pub
― deez the season (some dude), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:01 (ten years ago) link
I initially read "pub" as a literal pub and was imagining bars with "RESERVED FOR MUSIC CRITICS" signs set up on certain tables, which would be kind of awesome/hilarious
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:06 (ten years ago) link
Give it time.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:07 (ten years ago) link
critics shouting their opinions of new music releases, in a drunken stupor in a pub area "RESERVED FOR MUSIC CRITICS," is the only really true, pure music journalism. anyone who does it another way -- i hold you in contempt.
― Daniel, Esq 2, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:20 (ten years ago) link
丂んムレレӨω ЯΣЩΛг๔ร @shallowrewards 5h
Earn a living through socially-valuable effort, not helping point corporations at target market. /end @EthanM_Long
.@EthanM_Long modifier: feed people to corporations all you want, work for one, just keep music the fuck out of it.
I thought this was a cute save. "one should work to help others...oh wait, i mean KEEP MUSIC PURE"
― da croupier, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:23 (ten years ago) link
guess he forgot the limits of his piety for a sec
― da croupier, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 17:26 (ten years ago) link
an Ott or a True or a Wells
barf that you'd compare this guy to those guys
― fear of zing failure (flamboyant goon tie included), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:01 (ten years ago) link
2nded
― the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:02 (ten years ago) link
haha was just going to post the same thing
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:04 (ten years ago) link
Michael @RcmndedListen 2h@shallowrewards From the way you talk, it sounds like you're a well-off mid-30s-something unaffected by the last five years of the economy.
丂んムレレӨω ЯΣЩΛг๔ร @shallowrewards 2h@RcmndedListen maybe that's because I spent the prior 15 years working a trade and doing this in my spare time.
― goole, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:04 (ten years ago) link
a socially-valuable trade
modifier: a trade that didn't exploit boston basement culture!
― da croupier, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
working a relatively recession-resistant trade
― mh, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
"start a white collar career sometime in the 90s" is great advice, everybody should be able to do that
― goole, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:09 (ten years ago) link
artisanal IT
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:09 (ten years ago) link
Now I have Michael Jackson's "Heal The World (Modifier: OK, Just Don't Be A Professional Music Writer)" stuck in my head
― da croupier, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:12 (ten years ago) link
I was saying to someone the other day that many of the best people I've ever met are music critics and a handful of the worst. I've never met Ott but damn if he doesn't epitomise the most pompous, vindictive, toxic qualities.
― Deafening silence (DL), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
tbf, he's really making the "be pure! never try to do it for a living, that's so impure!" argument to other music writers that indie musicians frequently make to ::shudder:: "career" musicians.
― deez the season (some dude), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
musician purity test, what did you score
― mh, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:19 (ten years ago) link
xpost with the added hilarity of having to backpedal from a genuinely altruistic sentiment
― da croupier, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:20 (ten years ago) link
of all the angles of his multivalent arrogance and naievete, the one that really gets me is the sense that he's the only person to have ever seen through a sponsorship message. the same young people who are chronically underemployed, indebted and broke are very unlikely to be wowed by some logos showing up in their scene somewhere.
― goole, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:21 (ten years ago) link
what we know about the current young is that they are very brand disloyal and the most hostile to capital generally.
― goole, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:22 (ten years ago) link
i guess i'm trying to understand how he feels like music publications in the print age weren't in the business of delivering youth demographics to advertisers and large corporations?
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
I'm trying to understand why people are spending time trying to understand him, tbh
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:24 (ten years ago) link
I Cram 2 Understand U (Ott)
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:25 (ten years ago) link
telling other people "doing something for profit inevitably leads to moral compromises" says more about your moral compass than theirs in the same way as with religious people who think that not having religion leads to horrible immoral lifestyles
― deez the season (some dude), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:25 (ten years ago) link
indie musicians frequently make to ::shudder:: "career" musicians.
which ones and where? afaik it's fans that toe the hard line on this, most musicians know you gotta pay for gas
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:26 (ten years ago) link
xp Because we must work out exactly what this mediocre writer and aggressive asshole is trying to say.
― Deafening silence (DL), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:27 (ten years ago) link
what's the alternative in this scenario? ok, so I'll stop writing about music for money. ok, going to tell my landlord proudly that I have done the right thing. ok, landlord didn't give a shit. (sure wish I had 94K and bennies right now!) ok, going to apply for jobs and hear back from none because all I have done my entire life is write about music and I am unqualified for anything else, and in a job market where master's educated people can't even get jobs as clerks I am worthless. but hey, I am doing the right thing!
― katherine, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:28 (ten years ago) link
and, before it is mentioned, if I hadn't gone into music writing and stayed at my other job, I know for a fact I would have been laid off in about four months, because they laid everyone off.
― katherine, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:29 (ten years ago) link
musicians relying on fossil fuels, disgusting
― mh, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:32 (ten years ago) link
I'm trying to understand why people are spending time trying to understand him, tbhprospecting for clues to 94k-bennied sanctuary
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:34 (ten years ago) link
What you're supposed to do is to work directly for InBev and write about music on the side on your own time and for free
That's the responsible thing to do
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:36 (ten years ago) link
what does Ott think about countries where arts grants still exist?
― mh, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:37 (ten years ago) link
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 1:26 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i know plenty of musicians who are disdainful of making $$$ off music, but maybe it's more of a /punk/ thing. there was a thread earlier this year or maybe last year about a nabisco article about grizzly bear i think, and a discussion/debate between dude from indie band vs dude from another where one guy was defending music being a part-time job, used pig destroyer as an example. that attitude really pisses me off. i'll try and find the thread
― flopson, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:38 (ten years ago) link
Grizzly Bear - Shields
― flopson, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:40 (ten years ago) link
indie has a history of waltzing w/purity ideas no doubt but I think most indie dudes are pretty practical about it. in punk no doubt, there's still a whole "I have to talk to your booking agent to get a show? fuck that rock star shit" mentality subset that's really kinda mystifying (and dishonest & not true to its own values imo)
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:41 (ten years ago) link
grizzly bear thread "we have sufficient private income not to worry about full-time work"this thread "creeping on six figures bitches"
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:42 (ten years ago) link
http://h30631.www3.hp.com/search/technical-writer/ASCategory/-1/ASPostedDate/-1/ASCountry/USA/ASState/-1/ASCity/-1/ASLocation/-1/ASCompanyName/-1/ASCustom1/-1/ASCustom2/-1/ASCustom3/-1/ASCustom4/-1/ASCustom5/-1/ASIsRadius/false/ASCityStateZipcode/-1/ASDistance/-1/ASLatitude/-1/ASLongitude/-1/ASDistanceType/-1
FYI HP has a couple of tech writer jobs available if anyone's interested
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:44 (ten years ago) link
this was the other piece http://stereogum.com/1166392/debating-the-grizzly-bear-ny-mag-story-and-making-a-living-making-music/top-stories/lead-story
Doug is the frontman of Brooklyn-based experimental metal band Pyrrhon, about whom Decibel Magazine said, “Outré as they get, everything Pyrrhon do emanates from an obsidian death metal core — just that this music is that much more expressive, its impact that much more disquieting than almost anything else in the genre.” Doug Moore: The New York Mag piece on Grizzly Bear makes me feel lucky to be a member of a generation of musicians who never expected to be able to quit their day jobs.
Doug Moore: The New York Mag piece on Grizzly Bear makes me feel lucky to be a member of a generation of musicians who never expected to be able to quit their day jobs.
― flopson, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:44 (ten years ago) link
"What you're supposed to do is to work directly for InBev and write about music on the side on your own time and for free"
and even that might be a remotely fair argument (how much more than remotely is up to you) if InBev were routinely hiring. (the argument seems to be directed to people in their twenties, but if anything it's even more applicable to people who are older.)
― katherine, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:45 (ten years ago) link
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, December 3, 2013 1:41 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah it's super hypocritical. there was a minor controversy here because some friends of mine wrote "8$ don't be a cheap" on a show poster for a show with 3 touring bands, problem wasnt so much that it was 8$ (although ppl are still reluctant to pay more than 5$ fuck u fugazi) but that it didn't say PWYC. because of course musicians should live off of other people's generosity and their labour has no value! drives me crazy
― flopson, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:48 (ten years ago) link
"working a trade" ok big guy.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:54 (ten years ago) link
one of the most non-unionized, outsourced trades that's benefited from a high demand/supply ratio when it comes to workers so shmucks can still get jobs
― mh, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
he makes it sound like he's a longshoreman or something
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:57 (ten years ago) link
yeah I get pretty emotional about it tbh because I have some punk values and "pay people for their work" is one of them but you can get vilified for saying "look this is what my work is legitimately worth, you are asking me to short-change my family in order to get punk points from you"
but I do think that the indie music dude who looks down his nose at musicians with careers is a straw man, is my point. careerism is a different question but most people I know (nb "most people I know" equals "olds who have been in the game 20 years") have made their peace with and/or are plenty stoked about music as both realm of creativity & business space that, at least, has a better day-to-day vibe than the office
xp
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 18:57 (ten years ago) link
an Ott or a True or a Wellsbarf that you'd compare this guy to those guys
https://twitter.com/everetttrue/status/407630150746923008
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
*arched eyebrow*
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:05 (ten years ago) link
can you start a new column with this guy, it could be the RaggOtt report
― mh, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:06 (ten years ago) link
Never ever even SLIGHTLY joke about the possibility of us collaborating on anything.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:12 (ten years ago) link
writing that down as a "maybe"
― mh, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:14 (ten years ago) link
I get pretty emotional about these things because I have literally no idea what anyone wants from me (where "me" can be substituted with "writers in general"), and because the only guesses I have as to what people want are ones that are incompatible with actually living and eating and having a roof over one's head
― katherine, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:15 (ten years ago) link
if you could actually make money selling out, then it might be worthwhile to aspire to a career as a music writer. as it stands, there are lots of legit reasons to warn people away from a really rough career choice without having to make them up.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:19 (ten years ago) link
i have mad respect for those that keep their heads above water doing it (xposts) but seriously.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:20 (ten years ago) link
The idea that people’s futures might be economically determined deeply offends U.S. sensibilities. We want to believe that individual moxie matters, that a person’s creativity, effort, and intelligence will lead to economic success. Stories of exceptional strivers, heroically overcoming a stacked deck of obstacles, divert our attention from the data. But the large mega-trends are now indisputable. If you fail to pick wealthy parents and want to experience the American dream today, move to Canada.
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
on a journey thru the past
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:22 (ten years ago) link
worked for win butler
― da croupier, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:22 (ten years ago) link
canada ain't all it's cracked up to be
― mh, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:22 (ten years ago) link
smh @ Everett True
― subaltern 8 (Michael B), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 19:34 (ten years ago) link
kinda tangential question to the career musicians here - seeing that you're not multi-millionaires (i don't think, maybe i really misunderstand the indie economy), to what extent do you find yourself sticking to 'brand' to ensure that your career doesn't fall apart? (no judgment implied here, i'm 100% cool with musicians i like not starving to death.)
― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 20:00 (ten years ago) link
i have a day job so I don't know if I count as a career musician or not but I've been in a band that tours and puts out albums for 18 years or so, and it's a fine line between trying to evolve and playing to your strengths. since we try to have a conceptual orientation that is distinct that drives each album we kind of built into things the notion that we would change, and electronic music has such relentless trend turnovers that you can't really play catchup without seeming kind of spray-on and phony, so we don't bother too much with that. Every band is different in terms of how wide or narrow the initial genre frame already is- like if you're 60s garage rockers, you can add some country or some gospel or some soul, but there's a core there. But no matter what the genre, you can't not be aware of the fatigue issue for your fans and listeners- when they have eight of your albums, do they need number nine too? and you can start to feel threatened by your own past, as if you're competing with yourself and people's first impressions as much as with the cluttered landscape. not to be morbidly grandiose but in a weird sense every career "falls apart" insofar as contexts change and you change too and you just can't be the same person, onstage or on records, that you were when you started. cue Soft Cell's "the art of falling apart" . . . .
― the tune was space, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 20:13 (ten years ago) link
yeah i feel like the difference between how a musician navigates their career and how a critic navigates theirs are so fundamentally different that i wouldn't even want to compare them in any meaningful way. apples and oranges.
― deez the season (some dude), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 20:16 (ten years ago) link
If you fail to pick wealthy parents and want to experience the American dream today, move to Canada.
Here, I have a song for you
If you wanna be a starif you really wanna sellyou better buy the best PRyou better choose your parents well
― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 20:44 (ten years ago) link
Britney Spears to thread
"if you wanna party in France, you better work bitch" etc.
nuff sed
― the tune was space, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 21:11 (ten years ago) link
sorry, this is just happening at a particularly scary time in the writing landscape
― katherine, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 21:27 (ten years ago) link
the entire american economy sucks unless you come from family money/got a solid pre-Bush/Cheney.Crash career going
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 21:40 (ten years ago) link
thank God for my solid pre-Bush
― SHAUN (DJP), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 21:44 (ten years ago) link
Bush/Cheney.Crash
common misnomer. recession, and grinding "recovery," totally due to obamacare.
― Daniel, Esq 2, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 21:45 (ten years ago) link
not just obamacare but barney frank iirc
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 21:49 (ten years ago) link
oh good just what this thread needed
― katherine, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 21:52 (ten years ago) link
obamacore
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 21:53 (ten years ago) link
^^^^^^^^^^^^ new genre.
― Daniel, Esq 2, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 21:53 (ten years ago) link
focus, people
丂んムレレӨω ЯΣЩΛг๔ร @shallowrewards 56m
@coreybeasley @cryptochromatic I AM THE SOLUTION. I AM DOING WHAT IS A SOLUTION 2 THIS PROBLEM. NOT SELLING MUSIC IN2 AD-SUPPORTED PR LAND
― da croupier, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 21:59 (ten years ago) link
There has to be some way to articulate what kind of person finds the "replace each letter in your username with a wacky symbol shaped like that letter" an interesting and unique choice in 2013
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:02 (ten years ago) link
witch house is gonna come back, dude ^^^
― illegalblues, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:05 (ten years ago) link
But he's not even using the right witch house fonts
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:06 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88zQ_sf6BMg
― markers, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:08 (ten years ago) link
hey I made this choice in like 2006
oh you meant that guy, cool
― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:09 (ten years ago) link
if you wave this image in his face does he explode into flames
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Moby_play.JPG
― mh, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:09 (ten years ago) link
Saw some fellow getting of the subway this afternoon, studied his upswept do and said to myself " now that, in contrast, is a happy pompadour."
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 22:23 (ten years ago) link
― 乒乓, Tuesday, December 3, 2013 2:02 PM (2 hours ago)
http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/200H/i/2012/276/0/1/no_love_deep_web_by_fatal_nostalgia-d5gpzgi.png
― CANONICAL artists, etc., etc. (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 01:00 (ten years ago) link
We know how to read webtstats, son. *snicker* Yeah, we're BEGGING to inflate our worth. Money is made on valid stats, you think we fooled New Line Cinema with hocum? You. Are. Always (I can only assume). Wrong.― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:07 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― socki (s1ocki), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 01:18 (ten years ago) link
noticed a response to the sexism accusation in the comments box of that everett true post - apparently, it's the people HIRING young women who are the sexists.
It’s quite sad to me that in aid of developing a justifiable ad-hominem position Jake and his pals have invented the position that I am “against female writers” and believes age is a relevant basis for debating intellectual and ethical concerns. This sort of gap-seeking, self-martyring nonsense is endemic in your circle. Stop looking for reasons to invalidate your critics and confront them word for word.
Elitist cliques pull this whenever someone says something to upset their harmonious network of fast friends trading self-celebration, reinforcing their position while circling the wagons. All I’m trying to point out here is the wagon.
The “authentic experience”-hunting brands and the portals they pay for (like Pitchfork and the NME) want young women on the wagon for far more sexist reasons than you might understand. Their reader base is 70% male. And these young women chose to put themselves in my line of sight, I didn’t seek them out.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 01:54 (ten years ago) link
"And these young women chose to put themselves in my line of sight, I didn’t seek them out."
ted bundy quote?
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:00 (ten years ago) link
And these young women chose to put themselves in my line of sight, I didn’t seek them out.
Ok I don't know if dude is actually a sexist asshole or just an asshole but this sentence is super crepey.
haha xp
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:02 (ten years ago) link
the lack of self-awareness is kind of staggering
― it's going to be a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5PtyrewSs (latebloomer), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:03 (ten years ago) link
This guy gives a bad name to all of us who
Like musicUsed to play in a crappy bandHave a day jobDon't exercise or cut our hair as often as we should
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:10 (ten years ago) link
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:13 (ten years ago) link
"giving white guys a bad name since 2003"
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:14 (ten years ago) link
idk there are dudes who have non-pompadour affectations, like getting swole and having youtubes about it
― mh, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:15 (ten years ago) link
丂んムレレӨω ЯΣЩΛг๔ร @shallowrewards 9m
@RcmndedListen No, but I am a cancer to people who use music to draw an audience to sell shoes to.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:18 (ten years ago) link
i don't think he knows how cancers work
or maybe he just meant the crab
― da croupier, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:19 (ten years ago) link
CANCER...
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:29 (ten years ago) link
rhythm is a dancer
― mh, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:43 (ten years ago) link
his bit about how you don't have to deal with the advertising venture capital world thanks to twitter and tumblr reminds me of the various glenn beck speeches railing against socialism that include a part where he goes to the library.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:49 (ten years ago) link
he adorably missed the part where tumblr was sold to yahoo for a billion dollars
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:58 (ten years ago) link
Fucking venture capitalists, demanding a ROI on everything
Post your content to Twitter instead. They're clean
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 03:06 (ten years ago) link
s1ocki otm, there's no voice as impassioned and offbase as from someone whose god failed them
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 03:25 (ten years ago) link
you don't have to deal with advertising venture capital because kickstarter or w/e will fund your sugar ray cruise
― mh, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 03:28 (ten years ago) link
I have no idea what post this is on or whose pal I am (I have literally never spoken to or chatted with Jake in my life), but if most of the blame for a systemic problem sustained by ad execs, CEOs and venture capitalists is placed on mostly beginning-to-mid-career female writers, and when their male writer counterparts are criticized only in terms of being pals with and/or wanting to sleep with said female writers (this isn't hyperbole, I'm pretty sure I remember a post saying some male writer was "just looking for a handjob") -- then yes, I'm going to make a wild guess and call that sexist
― katherine, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 03:41 (ten years ago) link
also, less from the "sexist" category and more from the "what the fuck is wrong with you," apparently said comments section goes and calls this one 19-year-old girl (who lives nowhere near Bushwick) a "dumb fuck" for asking what was going on and whether she should be discouraged from writing because of it, A+ everybody, fantastic work
― katherine, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:18 (ten years ago) link
what post is this i didn't see the link in the thread?
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:34 (ten years ago) link
http://www.collapseboard.com/everett-true/christopher-j-ott-the-other-guvner/
― katherine, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:34 (ten years ago) link
Frustrating to see a not-always-bad-writer-in-his-time Suddenly After Years Of Playing The Game become aware of systemic culture problems like he didn't have a sentient friend to lend him an Adorno text in his early 20s and then in typical white man's burden steez start blaming the people on the lowest rung whilst celebrating his own ""enlightened"" stance, yo guys I got a job, but I am a cancer Ott OTM
― fear of zing failure (flamboyant goon tie included), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:54 (ten years ago) link
If guy wants to get ahead of the curve on "music actually sucks" discussions, guy should hang out with musicians one time
― fear of zing failure (flamboyant goon tie included), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:59 (ten years ago) link
old man grumbles about pop, internet destroyed
― CANONICAL artists, etc., etc. (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:59 (ten years ago) link
Totally
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:04 (ten years ago) link
Tom, delete youtube now.
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:05 (ten years ago) link
personally I'm still stuck on "frustrating to see that all of this has resulted in calling a 19-year-old girl who writes on her own blog a 'dumb fuck'". this isn't about "not liking critics attacking other critics," this is about the fact that this entire godforsaken thing has now devolved into straight-up bullying of teenage writers with blogs by grown-ass industry men at least in their thirties. (also, for what it's worth, bullying teenage *female* writers.)
― katherine, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:06 (ten years ago) link
wow at that link.
of the reasons to not be a music critic, dealing with those discussions has gotta number among them.
also i'm really impressed by how far he's taking the "discover the network" grassy knoll stuff:
"There is no way to confirm the direct involvement of rumored silent partner Marc Geiger of WME, but he is publicly on record as being Pitchfork’s agent for a number of years now. He is publicly on record as a board member of TopspinMedia, which shares venture capital advisement with Redpoint, a venture capital firm that financed SpinMedia (SPIN). He is further part of a succession of UCSD music directors and San Diego-area promoters along with Bill Silva and Larry Weintraub who are using music as an inroad to corral youth attention and sell it to marketers."
the elders of zion have gotta fit in somewhere around here, right?
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:08 (ten years ago) link
say what you will about Ott's stuff, at least it's an ethos - having read through that Collapse Board thread I've come out with absolutely no idea what point Everett True is trying to make.
― Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:22 (ten years ago) link
So Chris Ott = Nazism
― Murgatroid, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:26 (ten years ago) link
a+ invocation of godwin can we please be finished with this now
― katherine, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:29 (ten years ago) link
(that wasn't a diss on you, more "oh thank god, godwin's law achieved, that might mean this is over soon"
― katherine, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:30 (ten years ago) link
Actually, I was spelling out what I thought was a Big Lebowski reference but sure, I'll take any reason to be done with this.
― Murgatroid, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:30 (ten years ago) link
Wtf is collapse board lol there's a link on that page that's an open letter to whiney about haim
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:32 (ten years ago) link
iirc in both the ott post and the whiney one true acknowledges removing expletives after posting, wonder how often he has to do that
― da croupier, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 05:35 (ten years ago) link
why would music and music media be the one business without a back of house
― napgenius (goole), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 06:09 (ten years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, December 3, 2013 3:12 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
that explains Ned, let's talk about your 136 Albums of the 90s.
― zanarkand bozo (abanana), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 06:17 (ten years ago) link
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FkGU74aX1iY/TaZsILcd45I/AAAAAAAABPA/ATwPPKv69dE/s320/BarbraStreisandMemories.jpg
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 06:28 (ten years ago) link
User Profile: Murgatroid
― buzza, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 07:04 (ten years ago) link
You called?
― Murgatroid, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 07:11 (ten years ago) link
Around 4.20 I was laughing so hard.
hey we've all been there
― screaming lord, such opinion (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 10:11 (ten years ago) link
katherine sure takes writing about music SERIOUSLY doesn't she.
― the Shearer of simulated snowsex etc. (Dwight Yorke), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 10:16 (ten years ago) link
or sexism. why don't you tell us what you think we should take seriously?
― the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 10:35 (ten years ago) link
yeah Haimgate was the first time i'd even heard of Collapse Board. the Ott post refers to discussion on the Collapse Board facebook group, which i guess means that Collapse Board is not a message board but some kind of poorly named publication, and there's actually a Collapse Board board?
― deez the season (some dude), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 11:05 (ten years ago) link
i skimmed this thread my lord, do not chastise me, I skimmed it.
― the Shearer of simulated snowsex etc. (Dwight Yorke), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 11:08 (ten years ago) link
i don't know what DY is attempting to do with that initial post, but i did want to delurk to say i'm appreciating katherine's contributions itt
― reddening, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 11:11 (ten years ago) link
i do too.
― the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 11:14 (ten years ago) link
better that than being so terrified of earnestness that you can only respond with a rote sneer
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 11:18 (ten years ago) link
it's probably why katherine's one of the best music writers around right now, too. u should aspire to that
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 11:19 (ten years ago) link
kinda laughable that this guy who submits his reviews to ilx threads for feedback is jeering at writers for taking writing seriously on other threads.
― the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 11:21 (ten years ago) link
haha i thought the exact same thing
― deez the season (some dude), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 11:22 (ten years ago) link
see ya.
― the Shearer of simulated snowsex etc. (Dwight Yorke), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 11:23 (ten years ago) link
Scott Creney has Ott's back on the Collapseboard thread. They should form the Justice League of Self-Aggrandising Belligerent Dudes.
― Deafening silence (DL), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 12:09 (ten years ago) link
Scott Creney is the worst.
― the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 12:10 (ten years ago) link
Seems essential to me that if you're going to tell all the other, employable music writers that they're doing it wrong then your own writing should be dynamite. Otherwise, pthrrrrt.
― Deafening silence (DL), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 12:13 (ten years ago) link
yeah...the way Creosote keeps contrasting the problems of the current landscape with 'the way things used to be done and SHOULD be done' is a sly way of making his contributions to the business seem more significant than they actually were. it's right out of the Bob Lefsetz playbook.
― deez the season (some dude), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 13:44 (ten years ago) link
I never found out what this amazing move taht was going to mean that readership of Pitchfork eclipsed taht of Spin & Rolling Stone combined was. Unless it was the move over to covering non-indie divas that I read about by coincidence in another thread. But I'm not sure what the timescale there was & it sounded like people who had been reading Pitchfork might actually drop it for doing so anyway.
What was this amazing coup and how well did it work. I'm not sure if Pitchfork is a household world r if it only appeals to music geeks anyway. also not getting what the story is with Ott and them was there a parting of the ways & who called it & for what reason?
Nice to see that the great self-described Legend has teamed up with Ott in an attempt to stand up for the right of whatever. Not been a big fan of Jerry, is that ever? Or was he the sole reason that Sub Pop types broke through, I mean no Everett no Nirvana or Hole omigod etc. That the guy went from peddling indie twee to the oh so rugged sound of Minneapolis always did stick in the craw rather didn't it?
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 13:58 (ten years ago) link
Sorry should have maybe said that Everett True = The Legend = (non pseudonym )Jerry Thackeray (mere pseud?). who single handedly invented Sarah Twee pop, grunge and all points thereafter didn't he?
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:06 (ten years ago) link
feeling kind of wistful now that ATP is over, picturing the finale concert when ILX finally shuts down, naughty by nature getting the last song, a remake of OPP, ott nodding on stage between treach and vin rock, even the most flagrant otter-haters in the audience, like queen latifah in the original video, grinning sheepishly about being down with OTT when it gets down to it. chris ott hooray, ho, hey, ho!
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:09 (ten years ago) link
guys i'm sorry i lost my critic trading cards--can someone tell me who the fuck everett true is?
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:12 (ten years ago) link
I think he's a Legend that got fired from the NME back before it became quite as bad as it did later.
Think he helped push a wheelchair bound Kurt Cobain onstage at Reading or something too.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:16 (ten years ago) link
big shaker in late-80s Melody Maker, introduced Cobain to Courtney, was the dude Sub Pop paid for to fly over and do a feature on Seattle in MM, which arguably led to the ~alternative revolution~ of the early-mid '90s, later did Careless Talk Costs Lives, now lives in Brisbane and whinges on the internet
also had early singles on Creation
― giant faps are what you take, wanking on the moon (sic), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:17 (ten years ago) link
thanking u. at least he sounds like he once had a career worth being bitter about.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:20 (ten years ago) link
In the good ol' days what sources of revenue did music magazines like MM or NME or w/e have besides advertising and reader subscriptions
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:23 (ten years ago) link
newstand?
― the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:27 (ten years ago) link
the inkies shifted hundreds of thousands of copies a week in the 1970s
Incidentally I just discovered taht Everett True was actually initially a supposedly every-man comic character who debuted in the early 230th century and had been revived for a comics catalogue the year taht Jerry Thackray was fired from the NME and thought the Legend penname was too attached to taht publication.https://www.google.ie/search?q=outbursts+of+everett+true&rlz=1C1DVCJ_enIE452IE454&espv=210&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=AjifUqSeKOSw7AauloHwDQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=652#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=tk0WOa6-6yjk4M%3A%3Bt86NMCBkKZkyAM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%252F2595%252F4177895834_e3a128930f_o.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fovo127.com%252F2010%252F09%252F10%252Fa-d-condo-and-j-w-raper-the-outbursts-of-everett-true-38%252F%3B404%3B800is several of the comic strips featuring him.
I can't be awake yetor I'd know that the town that everybody loves in the title of the oral history on grunge is Seattle not Minneapolis. Can't think why I'd confuse the two.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:27 (ten years ago) link
& also might be able to type 20th instead of 230th.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:28 (ten years ago) link
your posts appear to be the ravings of a lunatic whose band received a poor review from ET in the 1980s. if your intention is to make him look bad you're really not succeeding.
― the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:28 (ten years ago) link
i'm appreciating katherine's contributions itt
― reddening, Wednesday, December 4, 2013 3:11 AM (3 hours ago)
me too, if nothing else
― CANONICAL artists, etc., etc. (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:33 (ten years ago) link
me too
also i don't remember but i probably made some great posts
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 14:50 (ten years ago) link
i was happy to find out katherine was KATHERINE katherine
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 15:14 (ten years ago) link
cant tell if collapse board is sadder than sportsjournalists.com or if theyre both equally sad
― max, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 15:22 (ten years ago) link
FWIW, Jerry/ET posted here back in the early days and the only reason I have a vague kind of writing profile in the UK music press is due to writing in Careless Talk Costs Lives and its successors, and now The Quietus. So I'll still thank him for that!
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 15:27 (ten years ago) link
He was a good writer and a vibrant figure for a long time, and totally deserves respect for ploughing new furrows over and over.
― giant faps are what you take, wanking on the moon (sic), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 15:34 (ten years ago) link
man i feel bad that i don't know who katherine is
― an enormous bolus of flatulence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 17:23 (ten years ago) link
gave up and posted on that comments section so
― katherine, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 19:02 (ten years ago) link
I love katherine's posts but have never figured out if she is a) the first victim of the Maura's infamous Fancy A Bout Of Alcohol Poisoning karaoke night b) a friend of bell_labs I once had drinks with or c) somebody else entirely
― fear of zing failure (flamboyant goon tie included), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 19:25 (ten years ago) link
whoa, irl just crept into my ilx
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 19:27 (ten years ago) link
ilx is well known for irl creeps
― bnw, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 19:31 (ten years ago) link
as for taking this seriously feel free to replace all text with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHXgdtiFRNY
― katherine, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 19:32 (ten years ago) link
A nasty hangover today and I was thinking "I haven't felt this bad since
xp perfect
― fear of zing failure (flamboyant goon tie included), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 19:32 (ten years ago) link
whoa xp
― Tip from Tae Kwon Do: (crüt), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 19:33 (ten years ago) link
great responses katherine, both here and on collapseboard
― fear of zing failure (flamboyant goon tie included), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 19:38 (ten years ago) link
yeah, great stuff katherine
amazing how infuriating this is, considering the stakes.
― napgenius (goole), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 19:57 (ten years ago) link
http://tinyurl.com/pztmnkbis several pages with the Outbursts of Everett True comic strip that Jerry Thackray named himself after. Hadn't known the source of the name until earlier today when I posted this with a longer URL.Apparently the character had been revived in a comic catalogue earlier in the year that the once Legend had been fired from the NME and thought the pen-name too associated with that publication.
Interesting strip, possibly a bit dated but it is from the early years of the 20th century. I think it debuted in 1905.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 21:23 (ten years ago) link
the Tony Isabella cover version was in CBG, not a "catalogue"
― giant faps are what you take, wanking on the moon (sic), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 23:30 (ten years ago) link
I can see you, you know.
― failed music critic, Thursday, 5 December 2013 02:50 (ten years ago) link
What's up failed music critic
What'd you have for breakfast today
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 02:59 (ten years ago) link
I was eating my own words. Again.
― failed music critic, Thursday, 5 December 2013 03:26 (ten years ago) link
hot stuff coming through:
http://www.imposemagazine.com/features/chris-ott-shallow-rewards-interview
― afriendlypioneer, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:03 (ten years ago) link
I think this guy has apoint or two
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:06 (ten years ago) link
I am part of an age group that was raised to believe that if you went to school and learned a particular skill, you would come out of school with a chance at turning that skill into a career.That’s called entitlement. I’m sorry you weren’t better protected. I don’t understand how anyone can justifiably look at the world and say, “I should earn a living wage to express my deep, intense feelings about a local band.” The only way you can do that is if you let people sell ads on the back of your exuberance.
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:10 (ten years ago) link
"Get a job. That’s what I did. I got a job."
will get right on that, maybe I can buy one at the grocery store, wait no I can't afford to buy groceries this month
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:11 (ten years ago) link
Doesn't Ott understand that advertising is simply the way corporations give back to the community
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:11 (ten years ago) link
He found his contrarianism no longer welcome in an industry that, due almost entirely to Pitchfork's rise, now rejected controversy.
ok seriously this is how the reporter frames this shit??
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:13 (ten years ago) link
The writer means controversy over what bands are cool and what bands are not
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:14 (ten years ago) link
Q: Bullshit—why did you start writing for the internet if you weren't vain?
A: Because I wanted to express something that wasn’t being expressed anywhere else.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:16 (ten years ago) link
okay, I'm reading on further and his more reasonable option: "I got a job as an administrative assistant at a book publisher, making twenty-two grand." oh my god this is amazing. you want to talk "fucking deluded"? I was actually interviewed for a job as an assistant at a book publisher this year. You know how many people applied for the job (they told me at the interview)? 500. Five hundred. That's a 0.2 percent chance of getting a job. Harvard has better admissions odds. Even if you assume that a large portion of the applicants are unqualified (I mean, it's entry-level, but in the 2013 job market the process of becoming qualified realistically starts in, like, middle school), only a handful of people were asked to interview. Out of 500 applicants.
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:16 (ten years ago) link
It's not Ott's fault that the job market stinks, though. His point stands.
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:18 (ten years ago) link
reading on even further and "political correctness" is being used as a justification for hiring women, nope
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:19 (ten years ago) link
wait till you get to the Pell twins point.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:20 (ten years ago) link
"When guys find out that there are cool girls that listen to cool music, they’re going to listen to those girls more than the guys that they’re jealous of."
nope nope nope hahahahahahaha NOPE. I'm sure this is going to be dismissed automatically because it's from a Pitchfork writer (a damn good writer, too), but I think it's a better depiction of how guys react to girls who listen to music (source: I am a girl)
http://lindsayzoladz.tumblr.com/post/29966963774/dont-blame-us-four-women-talk-about-why-they-didnt
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:21 (ten years ago) link
thanks, katherine. Love this part:
And then they quiz you on the artist’s entire catalog. For instance, I really like this one Mission of Burma album, but I am hesitant to bring that up to a man, because I don’t listen to ALL of their albums. I agree that men are more likely to think their opinions are Definitive and Correct.
As per women not finding as much pleasure in solitary activities, maybe? But a lot of our lady friends love to read and to discuss books and articles and etc. I’m turned off from talking about music because I’ve encountered so many men who are mainsplain-y about it, while I haven’t had that same experience with books, because a lot of men are dismissive of, like, Jane Eyre, so we never have those convos to begin with.”
yes yes amen
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:23 (ten years ago) link
Honestly I think it takes some things to have the energy to make one of those: a) some degree of narcissism to assume that literally anyone cares what albums you like b) enough self esteem to believe your choices are correct or to not care if people disagree with you or think less of you because of which albums you like c) the fastidious patience to actually complete a task that is based mainly in narcissism.
Yes!
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:23 (ten years ago) link
Those are obvious points that a high schoolers know. "Wow! Did you know that writers are narcissists because they want people to read their shit? YOU DON'T SAY."
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:26 (ten years ago) link
Way to ignore his main points guys. I guess you guys think music writers should be paid like kings
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:26 (ten years ago) link
"I don’t want to pile on an already disadvantaged gender. I feel they deserve a little more explanation for why they bother me. A guy doesn’t deserve that."
this is a very peculiar form of logic. I don't even know what to compare it to. maybe that VICE spread about models dressed as female writers who committed suicide, in honor of their all-woman issue?
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:27 (ten years ago) link
I'm not ignoring his main points, but the only logical conclusion to his main points is "destroy capitalism" because there is likely no paying job in the system that does not indirectly fund people's huge mansions. some may be more direct than others, but I don't think directness comes into his argument at all.
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
Did you know that writers are narcissists because they want people to read their shit?
You are way over simplifying the point. The point of that clip is male music writers are so narcissistic that they think people CARE what their ten best albums of all time are. Yes, all writers are narcissists who want to share their art with the world. It takes a particular kind of self involvement to spend the time and energy ranking your all time music, that your choices are best, etc and so forth.
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
well, yeah
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:29 (ten years ago) link
I'll let Ann Powers know.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
Fuck them for besmirching the name of DIY and punk and hardcore in the pursuit of being cool.
God
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
You think Ott ever went to a Warped Tour
Sure, because female music writers get such a famously easy ride from male readers.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:31 (ten years ago) link
I just gave you two very successful examples. Stylus, there’s another.
You mean the music website that closed in 2007
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:32 (ten years ago) link
but the only logical conclusion to his main points is "destroy capitalism" because there is likely no paying job in the system that does not indirectly fund people's huge mansions. some may be more direct than others, but I don't think directness comes into his argument at all.
No, I get this. Totally. He's hyper focused on this one area that's bugging him. I don't know.
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:32 (ten years ago) link
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, December 5, 2013 3:26 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Also, you know my quote is from the article that Lindsay Zoladz wrote, right??
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:33 (ten years ago) link
Not Ott
― 乒乓,
I dunno what he meant by this, honestly – successful b/c we were awesome by Chris Ott's lights or successful because, uh, the site's still up?
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:34 (ten years ago) link
The conversation, however, felt like a cathartic scene in Steinbeck's East of Eden
Sure it did.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:35 (ten years ago) link
Do you pronounce his name 'Ott' or 'Oh-Te-Te'?
― elegant eyes, aristocrat face, gorgeous hair (soref), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:36 (ten years ago) link
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:34 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
I suppose TSJ is still running strong
Really uh, lol, that when he talks about independent music pubs that don't depend on ads he fails to mention Maura Magazine which iirc is entirely based on reader subscriptions, but then later calls out Maura as not having the independence to say what she wants to say?!
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:37 (ten years ago) link
that bit felt like subtle bullying. it really did
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:37 (ten years ago) link
He meant she can't speak out against the industry:
Because I’m in a position to speak truth to power. I am literally one of the only people who can speak truth to power. Chris Weingarten would get fired. All these other people that you guys think are so fucking important? They’d all get fired. Maura Johnston? As much as I fucking love her? She wouldn’t be able to book a gig. They’re all trying to preserve what they have by playing nice. I have never played nice. That’s why I quit The Village Voice after two months, that’s why I quit Pitchfork, I don’t work with these fucking people. They all sell out, every fucking time.
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:39 (ten years ago) link
I’m saying that particularly in the case of the Pelly twins, who are very sharp girls, I’m sort of mystified that they are continuing to plow this road of nonstop excitement and positivity and championing without questioning why they’re getting put up out front on Pitchfork and the NME, when a lot of male writers at those sites aren’t getting the same pop level promotion.
Reverse sexism at its finest. When will the young white male music writer finally catch a break in this heavily gender-biased industry??
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:42 (ten years ago) link
for someone who knows so much about the publishing industry this guy doesn't seem to know how to find the masthead
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:43 (ten years ago) link
"why do all these full-time reporters make A1 over the stringers???"
from a ten-minute YouTube video I posted, the entire music criticism architecture is shitting their pants.
In this respect, I’m not a person, I’m a message.
I’ve explained this all day on Twitter, and I hope you’ve taken the time to read it.
Everyone wants to always invoke riot grrrl as if it was some fucking scion of feminism—you weren’t fucking there, I was there.
They don’t know. They’ve demonstrated that they don’t know… I cannot allow that. If you’re going to start talking about things like punk and DIY, then I can’t allow that.
I am literally one of the only people who can speak truth to power.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:45 (ten years ago) link
that shit was heinous. also i still don't know what a collapse board is
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:48 (ten years ago) link
It's amazing to see the most self-righteous indie ideology aimed at the smallest possible purview. He's fine with you working for the beast, as long as you leave music out of it (he does!). He's fine with you GIVING your work to the beast (via twitter and tumblr), as long as you don't make money from it (he doesn't!). The scope of his contempt and ire is nothing more than people who dare to make even the smallest amount of money in the fashion he attempted ten years ago. He doesn't even expand it to journalism or criticism as a whole, just fucking indie rock. How anyone can see this as anything but sour grapes is beyond me.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:49 (ten years ago) link
this fuckin guy, yeah I saw Bratmobile in 1991 also, go fuck yourself.
not a writer and didn't read the OG article, but I am just stopping in here to give props to katherine. fwiw I do purchase music writing.
katherine, you seem awesome and I think you have made some great points in this and the other threads that have been around recently.
― sleeve, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:50 (ten years ago) link
xp I see it as sociopathy, but sour grapes is more polite
― fear of zing failure (flamboyant goon tie included), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:50 (ten years ago) link
katherine otm as usual
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
the Pelly twins are "very sharp girls"
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
this isn't exactly about me
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
didn't Henry James call Jane Austen "that clever little woman"
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
I'll say one thing for Ott he's never been afraid to double-down on his idiocy.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
The conclusion I'm drawing from his discussion is that he actually doesn't mind capitalism, but music is uniquely holy and should be untouched by it, and that bands and writers are increasingly tainted by corporations that turn music into purely a means to sell something.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
There's also the fact that despite the venom with which he promotes his stance, who he shits on and who he hits up for a chummy RT is completely irrespective of it. I get why we can't turn away (for all his talk about the entitlement of music critics, he's set himself up as their unchecked, ugliest form of id), but I don't get how anyone can take him seriously. In the long history of self-righteous macho indie, I can't think of anyone who stood for so little and so unconvincingly.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
What totally pure completely non-exploitive industry is Ott actually in now btw?
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
I honestly think he's the most self-important deluded asshole I've ever encountered in music journalism. Kudos Ott. Everybody's paying attention to you because you've out-assholed everybody else but keep on telling yourself it's because they can't handle The Truth.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
don't agree with it, but I think that a key part of his point is that music should be untouched by "brand bullies" to quote No Logo, a book I'm sure Ott worships.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:58 (ten years ago) link
"The only thing that has tainted what I’ve done is that YouTube shows ads before my videos .... All that they ask and all that they demand is that they show ads before my videos begin. I can’t reach that many people any other way."
"When your viewpoint goes up with a Converse banner behind it, you better start digging."
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:58 (ten years ago) link
whereas beer or whatever, that's fine, that's a product pure and simple, so capitalism is totally fine for that.
WE ARE NOT MEANT TO PRODUCT ART OR ART COMMENTARY FOR THE AD-PR COMPLEX WE ARE MEANT TO WORK IN THEIR SALT MINES AND MAKE PURE ART ON THE WEEKENDS. THAT IS THE WHOLE OF THE LAW.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
Ott places huge importance on being there and "having lived through it." Pity he wasn't born 20 years earlier so he could have screamed "PUNK IS DEAD!" in 1979
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:00 (ten years ago) link
Ads on YouTube videos are not mandatory, btw. You have to opt in.
― Humorist (horse) (誤訳侮辱), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:00 (ten years ago) link
da croupier otm, i think that's basically Ott's point. I think it's a tad ridiculous
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:01 (ten years ago) link
fucking entitled music writers
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:01 (ten years ago) link
expecting to get paid to write a review of art
wtf
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
God damn if I don't find his appropriation of the term "speak truth to power" genuinely offensive here
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
If I want to hear about brands and counterculture without all the toxic self-regard and name-calling, Thomas Frank did it 20 years ago.
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/f/frank-dissent.html
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:03 (ten years ago) link
I agree he's a little out of his mind but dude makes a point
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:03 (ten years ago) link
it's like the world's teeniest tiniest version of "fight club" - a guy giving himself a righteous ideology to explain why he made the choice he made, then going batshit trying to force that ideology on the world.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
I get why we can't turn away (for all his talk about the entitlement of music critics, he's set himself up as their unchecked, ugliest form of id), but I don't get how anyone can take him seriously.
i've been semi-following this and i was gonna ask, as a britisher who's not in the NYC music crit scene, is this guy actually like...relevant to anyone, or is it just ~naming names that's provoked this conversation
― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
he's relevant in the sense that i'm sure lots of people toil with the idea of whether it's worth it (or whether they should try harder or should have tried harder, etc), and he's pushing the envelope on the "hey maybe if i don't try to make money off my art, my art will be better" impulse to a violent, blinkered extreme.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:06 (ten years ago) link
violent, huh? missed the part where he stabbed Vampire Weekend with a machete in his video
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
at this point it is relevant for being relevant
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
His point seems to be that music writing should be a hobby for the already affluent. Or for people who live on air. Much like the pro-piracy hardliners who resent any band who expects to earn any money.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
"His point seems to be that music writing should be a hobby for the already affluent."
some would call this a bug, not a feature
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
I really hate how he thinks he has music writers "shitting their pants" - like what people are responding to is His Great Truth instead of his poor reasoning
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:12 (ten years ago) link
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:48 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
especially weird because it looks like he writes for Maura on occaission??http://www.maura.com/451/unreal-is-here
waterface doesn't agree with ott but is powerless to resist the siren song of such percfecto online assholism
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:12 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theonion.com/articles/90s-punk-decries-punks-of-today,1486
― Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:14 (ten years ago) link
xpost totally, that plus the fact that he's calling out names. Take the bizarre NME/Pelly section out of that video, my guess is that the online response to Ott decreases about 60-70%
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:15 (ten years ago) link
xxpost on that last one
I agree with him u numbskull
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:18 (ten years ago) link
i don't care
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:20 (ten years ago) link
you have achieved perfecto online assholism
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:20 (ten years ago) link
nah man i'm a nice guy
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:22 (ten years ago) link
online posting should be for the intellectually affluent
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:23 (ten years ago) link
delurking to comment that oddly Ott's position reminds me more than anything of these quotes from Austrian economist Friedrich Hayek I read in a Corey Robin article this year:
However important the independent owner of property may be for the economic order of a free society, his importance is perhaps even greater in the fields of thought and opinion, of tastes and beliefs.
The importance of the private owner of substantial property, however, does not rest simply on the fact that his existence is an essential condition for the preservation of the structure of competitive enterprise. The man of independent means is an even more important figure in a free society when he is not occupied with using his capital in the pursuit of material gain but uses it in the service of aims which bring no material return.
It is only natural that the development of the art of living and of the non-materialistic values should have profited most from the activities of those who had no material worries.
http://jacobinmag.com/2013/06/nietzsche-hayek-and-the-meaning-of-conservatism/
― i have sounded the very dub step of humility (anonanon), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:26 (ten years ago) link
to think this could have all been avoided if people had funded his kickstarter (well, and mark mcgrath's)
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:28 (ten years ago) link
ha
― SHAUN (DJP), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:28 (ten years ago) link
I mean, everyone is kind of painting Ott's argument on some NO LOGO, SHEEPLE 9/11 truther shit because, well no doy, brands have been tacking themselves on to bands since Fred Astaire was shilling cigarettes in the '30s.
But I think what's getting lost here (probably since Ott can't make a cogent argument) is that the gap between the oligarchs at the top of the internet food chain and the bands they cover is probably wider than it's ever been.
It's one thing to talk about how Bob Guccione Jr or Ryan Schrieber bought a nice house covering Husker Du or Tapes N Tapes, but another thing when the FABULOUSLY WEALTHY (ie, Vice is a BILLION DOLLAR company, Mountain Dew's record label, Converse Rubber Tracks) are taking advantage of the new culture of cool: writers and editors who will work for the lowest rates in the history of music journalism, and bands who've existed less than a year.
It sucks and that's the way things are headed now.
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:29 (ten years ago) link
I don't know if blaming the writers is the answer, but I wish editors would pay more since this is basically hastening the eventual demise of "music journalism" as a career even faster than Spotify can
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:30 (ten years ago) link
(probably since Ott can't make a cogent argument)
this appears to be the crux of the problem, resulting in the whole "blaming the writers" thing
― SHAUN (DJP), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:34 (ten years ago) link
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:29 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:30 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you're right of course
it's all horrible
then Ott's essentially like a guy walking through a field in Bakersfield screaming "SELL OUT" at the migrant workers & asking to be treated like a hero for doing so
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:38 (ten years ago) link
considering you want editors to pay more to help "music journalism" as a career survive, i don't believe what you see as being lost is what ott's trying to have found
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:38 (ten years ago) link
The writers are to blame if they pretend they aren't contributing to the corporations. Isn't that the point he's making?
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:39 (ten years ago) link
and the crux of *that* problem is, suppose a writer agrees. suppose a writer feels chastised, they have SEEN THE LIGHT, they want to do right, come to jesus, what have you. what can they do? "Get a job. That’s what I did. I got a job." I mean, fuck, at least evangelical christians offer people a sinner's prayer they can do right away
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:39 (ten years ago) link
evangelical Christians in America these days would want you to get a job before they pray for you, so maybe Ott's missed his calling.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:40 (ten years ago) link
ott isn't exactly articulating problems that pretty much EVERY JOURNALIST isn't aware of and hasn't been discussing at length already
― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:40 (ten years ago) link
Well, he isn't saying anything about how easy it is to get a job. He's just saying if you give a shit about whether you are contributing to corporations by compromising your actual opinions about music, than don't expect music criticism to be the way in which you expect to build your career.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:42 (ten years ago) link
ha god if only that was just what he's saying
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:44 (ten years ago) link
"hey, principles can get in the way of career, guys. sucks but it's true. anyway, curve's new album..."
This isn't true, in my experience. Over and over YouTube asked me if I wanted to monetize my videos by including ads and I always said no, so eventually they just put ads on them anyway.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:44 (ten years ago) link
I was perhaps too smarmy on Twitter about this, but if I gave a shit about whether I was indirectly contributing to corporations, I could not use this laptop, populate these sites by tech corporations, drink this coffee, take this cold and flu medicine for the cold I have, probably live in this house, definitely not live in this city, or really do anything but go off the grid.
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:47 (ten years ago) link
a stance he paints as absurd because he is not anti-corporation. he's just anti-taking a paycheck from corporations for knowing about or creating indie rock. that's literally all he's anti.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:48 (ten years ago) link
I don't see how he ISN'T saying (overall) "Look, if you care, keep your music criticism untainted by keeping it a hobby and make money another way, because it is extremely difficult to both make enough money to live on AND keep your opinions untainted".
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:48 (ten years ago) link
as for compromising my opinions about music, I've never done that, not even when I primarily covered pop music. (this is honestly the part that baffles me -- why he doesn't go after THAT segment of the music press, considering the problem is even more endemic there and -- this is mean but -- there are plenty more young female writers working there.)
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:48 (ten years ago) link
I appreciate Whiney making the argument Ott's too blinkered to make. I posted somewhere itt that some of Ott's big picture stuff about the economics of music journalism right now seemed pretty good, but the rest of the argument was filled with crazy nonsense.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:49 (ten years ago) link
ya, he's not anti-capitalist, he's saying people like him are the only ones who can express a pure opinion and others are all tainted by drawing paychecks
(this is what reminded me of Hayek)
― i have sounded the very dub step of humility (anonanon), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:49 (ten years ago) link
you can use their platforms for free, you can work in their IT dept. just don't write a 5 Best Siouxsie & The Banshees listicle for $30, cuz then you're scum.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:49 (ten years ago) link
― Evan, Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:42 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
again as croup and others have pointed out SEVERAL times, he for some reason thinks it's ok to use twitter and tumblr which is contributing to corporation in no less of a way, but for some reason if you actually see nothing from the work then it's ok in his mind...also the other relevant point that "just get a job" part of his argument for a lot of people will involve other corporations that will often be morally compromised in ways a whole lot worse and more important than selling converse to young people
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:49 (ten years ago) link
My other gripe with Ott, besides his singling out primarily female writers as the main source of vitriol, is that his interest in issues of economic inequality come to a screeching halt for anything other than the music writing business.
Obviously these trends that Whiney outlined above are far from specific to music journalism. It's basically the story of the last 20/30 years of many industries in this country, with rapid acceleration in the last 5 years or so. I'll grant that it's probably more pronounced in music and journalism, two fields whose earning power has been slashed by the internet.
But if, as everyone knows, the gap between the wealthy and everyone else is increasing everywhere, why is music and music journalism basically the only place we should be raising a stink?
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:51 (ten years ago) link
I dunno, katherine, I do think it's really lame how much something like Mountain Dew can benefit from an artist as small and inconsequential as Neon Indian; or how companies have gone from giving bands $10k to use songs in their TV shows to giving them little more than "exposure"; or how sponsored content is funding multiple websites that pay their writers the most dogshit wages in history.
I think I'm allowed to be upset at that without being all "Oh, I'm wearing shoes so I guess the corporations win, Ayn Rand 4-eva"
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:53 (ten years ago) link
whiney why are you pretending people mocking ott's stance are mocking your stance.
i mean, he could have just mocked bad shitty articles, laughing about all the losers trying to scrape together a living by doing dumb listicles, making pennies pushing mediocrities for mountain dew ads, etc etc etc etc, but instead he has to pretend he's KEEPING MUSIC PURE. it's ironically the piety, not his arbitrary abuse of writers, that really does him in.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:54 (ten years ago) link
I mean, I'm upset at that too -- I don't think anyone in this thread isn't -- but at the individual writer level there is really not much that any one person can do without either a) getting a lucky break or b) taking the kind of hardline moral stance that does beg to be applied en masse.
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:55 (ten years ago) link
he is not concerned about broader economics, in fact I bet he's an Atlas Shrugged kind of guy at heart. he's only concerned about purity which is why his stance has very old conservative echoes, that only the independently wealthy are pure enough to think clearly and express a true/right opinion
only in this context merely working a non-music journalist job for 94k plus bennies = independently wealthy
― i have sounded the very dub step of humility (anonanon), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:56 (ten years ago) link
and, yeah, intheblanks, the income gap between the haves and have nots in music journalism is widening just like the erosion of the middle class in america. so it's hard out here for anyone content with 94k plus bennies
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:56 (ten years ago) link
which is honestly the most frustrating thing about all this (as opposed to the infuriating thing, which is that this kind of vitriol directed in this direction means the venture capitalists give zero shits and the earnest new writers give all the shits -- this distribution seems a bit familiar, doesn't it?): I am sympathetic to a large portion of this argument but when it comes to what one is actually supposed to do, as a writer, to be in the right, there is a blank and "get a job, you lazy shit."
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:59 (ten years ago) link
it's true that millenials are def the most "I'm gonna be a ballet dancer/writer/musician/artist/professional video game player" generation in history thanks to helicopter parenting and this is one forum where the chickens are definitely coming home to roost
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:03 (ten years ago) link
"hey guys you're so focused on his nonsensically selective anti-capitalism that you're missing the real point, which is FUCKING MILLENIALS MAN"
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:05 (ten years ago) link
jus sayin
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:06 (ten years ago) link
not blamin
in that case I apologize.
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:07 (ten years ago) link
(that wasn't smarmy, it's sincere, I don't like being entitled and I try to battle it in myself but sometimes I slip.)
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:13 (ten years ago) link
@whiney I absolutely agree re:"haves and have-nots," and I think those are the part of Ott's video that are good. The gap between the haves and have-nots is growing everywhere, and wealth and power getting concentrated isn't a good thing in music journalism, or public policy, or agriculture, or any field.
I just don't get combining the "don't be a tool of the wealthy" with the "94K plus bennies"/"Get real job, man!" components of his arguments.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:14 (ten years ago) link
my main takeaway from all of this is that ott used to write for pitchfork when they didn't have ads. and now they have ads and he doesn't write for them anymore. hooray for ads!
― wk, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:14 (ten years ago) link
unless being a tool of the wealthy only matters in one field: music journalism, historically the purest of all trades
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, December 5, 2013 11:03 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
def lots of proven facts in this post
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, December 5, 2013 11:49 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
He is saying there is nobody pressuring him to tailor content in any way on twitter or tumblr in the same way pitchfork might. He isn't making a point on the moral compromise of alternate jobs/careers, just that you can't expect to have your music criticism remain pure (likely) if you work at, again, a pitchfork business model.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:22 (ten years ago) link
Purity is a great concept if you have the brain of a 15 yr old
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:24 (ten years ago) link
otm
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:25 (ten years ago) link
Should have said "pure": as untouched by "corporate pressure" as possible.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:28 (ten years ago) link
how many times do you think ott has watched the "This Note's For You" video?
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:28 (ten years ago) link
gotta be in the 1000s
this ott's for you
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
xpost I don't think it's corporate pressure he's worried about. He doesn't think Converse executives are pushing bands on Ryan Schreiber and Mark Richardson. He's saying that the corporations are exploiting these guys' taste/talent/skills/whatever to turn fans of hip music into converse customers. And that it sets up a culture of "finding what's cool" because that's what advertisers covet.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:35 (ten years ago) link
for the record i don't really care too much about that. Most of the argument is so toxic I feel like I need to distance myself even when I'm citing parts I agree with.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:36 (ten years ago) link
not literally toxic, I don't want waterface to chime in with "I missed the part in the video where he poisoned the water supply."
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:37 (ten years ago) link
it's literally toxic in that I feel sick to my stomach
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:44 (ten years ago) link
out of fear, mostly. which I suppose is the solution to the income/success/whatever-you-call it gap in music journalism: instill more fear in writers.
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:45 (ten years ago) link
i'm probably we're dealing with two parallel problems here, the first is that ott's analysis is shaky, narrow and conspiratorial. the second is that he's a belligerent jerk.
the belligerent jerkiness is where i checked in, specifically his white collar down-punching (the now famous "94k + bennies") but more importantly, his crude, sub-breitbart gay-baiting trolling of ed droste. and it's readily apparent in this big exchange here; a bunch of people have tried to engage critically w/ him on twitter and gotten another blast of name calling etc. i don't know what he's like a critic or a writer; indie rock isn't really my thing and the discourse around it really isn't my thing.
factor all that out (not that you should; you shouldn't) the analysis itself doesn't hang together. and yeah, it all rests on the assertion that Music Is Special and should be Untainted.
the first step is that contemporary internet music media outlets aren't really what they are, they are just fronts for venture capital. people have asked how this is different from earlier ad-funded/print media era and he said that was just as gross, or something (https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/408407992061931520). people have also asked, well, how is that different from the rest of capitalism? and the argument is "capitalism is fine" (https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/408414088545705984) but capital's relationship to music -- really ANY relationship between capital and music writing -- is heinous (https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/408645007084515328). it should all be free, i guess, somehow.
the second step is how writers who take money from these sites are implicit in their own corruption, or blind, or something. and the third is that nobody should care about any of these bands anyway, because nobody cares anymore about the bands he wrote about ten years ago.
yeah, it's a monastic/aristocratic argument. do it as a hobby. i do it as a hobby, i'm in the upper middle class. do what i did, start your straight career during the clinton era. or i'll call you a cunt on twitter.
my advice, if anybody is listening, is the opposite. get by! survive. for god's sake, take the money. there's less money out there for anybody, for anything, period. are you kidding? take the hundred bucks or whatever. why not?
― napgenius (goole), Thursday, 5 December 2013 17:49 (ten years ago) link
er that first sentence is garbled -- "i'm probably repeating a lot of what has already been said, or will be, by the time i hit submit"
Good summary. I think that deep down thinks music writing should be a hobby (which, fine! Ignore pro writing!). But he also doesn't like a lot of the music that is getting written about, and attributes it to shady forces behind pro writing..
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:08 (ten years ago) link
also he hates women
Sure, take the money, but don't pretend to think you're doing anything worthwile or lasting, you're just shitting down the throats of a million people
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:09 (ten years ago) link
what is the morally superior alternative, then? preferably, is there a morally superior alternative that is attainable and will allow one to pay the rent? this is a serious question.
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:10 (ten years ago) link
In his opinion, it's finding a job and doing the music writing as a hobby.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:13 (ten years ago) link
Have you guys read that article this morning about SWARM????
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:14 (ten years ago) link
I'm not being smarmy. if I came off as smarmy, that is my fault and I apologize.
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:15 (ten years ago) link
As D-40 pointed out, this http://www.hipsterrunoff.com/node/8599 also picked up on the way bands seem to be treated the same way a new flavor of Doritos from a marketing standpoint online.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:16 (ten years ago) link
"Shitting down the throats of a million people" is a necessary consequence of making a living as a citizen in a modern first-world country unless you are rich enough to have piles of liquid cash that are not tied to any market or commodity that you can then distribute to people in need. Also, said cash must be distributed from the hut floating in the middle of the ocean that you forebears lived in by you as you live your life naked and eating fish that you have caught and killed with your bare hands.
― SHAUN (DJP), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:17 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw0C5Sga6So
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
to make an argument about the endangered purity of music and music journalism that ignores ones relationship with the world beyond it, or the history of music, music journalism and advertising, is stupid and vain.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:20 (ten years ago) link
"Shitting down the throats of a million people" is a necessary consequence of making a living as a citizen in a modern first-world country
Ok, totally. But you don't have to make a living as a music writer.
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:21 (ten years ago) link
...If you would feel guilty shitting down people's throats in that way.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:22 (ten years ago) link
You can be a good citizen and do a different kind of job, one that doesn't involve writing music reviews
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:22 (ten years ago) link
So... "you should find some other avenue to shit down people's throats" is the argument being advanced here? That doesn't seem to solve the core problem.
― SHAUN (DJP), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:22 (ten years ago) link
That's my argument, yes, and I agree it doesn't solve the core problem of our shitty economy
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
If you're forcing the premise that no matter what you do in a modern first-world country you're shitting down throats then yes.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:24 (ten years ago) link
i mean, points to waterface for acknowledging and embracing the whole of ott's stance - "career musicians and critics suck" - rather than picking and choosing which parts to alter and defend
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:25 (ten years ago) link
the problem with that argument is that many people do not have the means or luck (or 94K and bennies to stall with) to find some other avenue to shit down people's throats, at least not quickly enough not to go broke. (it isn't just millennials either -- the largest category of job hunters I know is 40+ women who've been left by their husbands and suddenly need to enter the job market they hadn't prepared for -- but really that's beside the point.)
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:25 (ten years ago) link
if the whole world is systematically unfair and exploitivethen why are we begrudging some people who write about music their beer money
also when was this fantastical tyme when music journalism was uncorrupted and advertising and marketing free?
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:26 (ten years ago) link
which you do acknowledge, but it does put the person receiving the argument into a bit of a bind. "You are morally bankrupt! And you don't even have the option to become less morally bankrupt! Probably the most moral thing you can do is drop dead, I dunno."
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:27 (ten years ago) link
if anything waterface is probably more ideologically consistent than ott, who seems to pick and choose which pro writers should be called out for being pro writers
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:27 (ten years ago) link
some music is free and critique seems beside the point
http://www.dead.net/30daysofdead
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:28 (ten years ago) link
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, December 5, 2013 11:17 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
actually i retract this as it might have just been whiney starting intra-spin beef w/j0rd
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:30 (ten years ago) link
Thanks, man!
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:36 (ten years ago) link
waterface ilu
― SHAUN (DJP), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:36 (ten years ago) link
why
― polyphonic, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:41 (ten years ago) link
guys it's time, can you feel it
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:56 (ten years ago) link
combing in the hair tonight
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2012/12/6/14/enhanced-buzz-9394-1354823884-4.jpg
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:59 (ten years ago) link
i feel like that should be a still from some paul thomas anderson film i haven't seen
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
is it true that phil collins wrote that song about seeing ryan schreiber sell out indie and then sang it directly to ryan schreiber at a concert and then ryan schreiber was like "damn"
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
In some versions of the story i've heard schreiber then went home to kill himself, in another he is arrested by awaiting police officers.
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:02 (ten years ago) link
take a look at me now
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:04 (ten years ago) link
"You are morally bankrupt! And you don't even have the option to become less morally bankrupt! Probably the most moral thing you can do is drop dead, I dunno."
Context...
As I understand the point:
Do you care about covering what you want and saying what you want about it? Probably much harder to get paid to do that.
Therefore, find a different kind of job and cover music as a hobby, or stop caring and happily continue making a living as a pro writer.
That's as much of his broad point as I'll defend.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:05 (ten years ago) link
Xp Its just a 404
― Strangers look on with a discernible, barely contained ‘wow’. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:05 (ten years ago) link
someday shriebs is gonna be dying and ott won't have a car but he'll drive his lawnmower across the country to see shriebs and they'll sit out on the porch and crack open two beers and look out at the sunset while that one wrens album plays in the background
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:06 (ten years ago) link
Sorry- not "defend", but that's what I interpreted him to mean at least.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:06 (ten years ago) link
lol matt
― festival culture (Jordan), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:07 (ten years ago) link
evan WHY are you doing him the favor of ignoring the self-righteous bile and contradiction, and trying to pull some friendly "hey writers and musicians, if you don't wanna deal with commercial grief, get a day job and do your shit on the weekends and nights" sentiment out of his shit?
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:09 (ten years ago) link
dicrescenzo and passantino will be inside the house playing nba jam
xpost
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:09 (ten years ago) link
while that one wrens album plays in the background
I love you
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:10 (ten years ago) link
This thread is exhausted.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:12 (ten years ago) link
cuz every hit on this record's hard won but . . .
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:15 (ten years ago) link
one thing that has been bugging me: I find the "you shouldn't have ambitions, you shit" stance, closely related to the "the truly great people don't care if anyone reads/watches/notices their stuff" stance, tiresome at best, especially when it comes from people who are already successful and/or wealthy. (and especially when it is deployed selectively, but everyone who hasn't already acknowledged that isn't going to.)
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:17 (ten years ago) link
What I don't get is like, okay music writing has to be pure and untainted by filthy lucre but it's okay for Kevin Shields to take a million quid and spend it on recording...?
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:19 (ten years ago) link
http://gladwell.com/outliers/
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:20 (ten years ago) link
― katherine, Thursday, December 5, 2013 2:17 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
Yeah the parts of the interview where he says "if you're publishing really good stuff *for free* on your tumblr/blogspot/livejournal then the people who care will find it" is the closest we get to his sublimated Randian ideology that if you're truly talented and work hard then you will automatically, 100% be awarded
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
Oh god rockcrit has Paul Ryan starve- your-grandma types among us.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:23 (ten years ago) link
― da croupier, Thursday, December 5, 2013 2:09 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Because that sentiment seems to be his point and people seemed to be taking stances against isolated parts of it that weren't what he was actually saying without context. Definitely didn't say he gets any pass beyond that. It just bothers me when the "fuck this guy" spills over into things that he didn't actually mean.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:24 (ten years ago) link
His rationale for singling out female writers is so strange. Like he expects to be thanked for it.
I don’t want to pile on an already disadvantaged gender. I feel they deserve a little more explanation for why they bother me. A guy doesn’t deserve that.
Boys only deserve run-of-the-mill schoolyard insults. Girls deserve to be interrogated in front of the entire school assembly.
― jmm, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:25 (ten years ago) link
poors don't deserve to have their taste addressed let alone validated
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:26 (ten years ago) link
Also weird how this thing THE INTERNET that he points to as being the savior of pure indie rock music criticism is also pretty much directly the riphook that gutted the entire music criticism magazine business that allowed people to make livings as music critics and that arguably gave music magazines the financial independence (via being able to depend on reader subscriptions) to be able to publish scathing whatevers without risk of financial retribution from their sponsors
Also weird because if you take his logic and apply it to any other segment of the journalism industry it falls apart. Nobody at the NYT is worrying that publishing an expose on Apple's labor practices is gonna put the squeeze on the ad cash pipeline from Tim Cook
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:28 (ten years ago) link
Evan killing it
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:28 (ten years ago) link
Is he still waving around the fact that he was accused of sexism as a martyr's badge? That was definitely one of his best looks so far.
― Murgatroid, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:28 (ten years ago) link
record critics, how do they work?
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:29 (ten years ago) link
alright now i know waterface is a sock, a true ottophile wouldn't let evan dilute his stance like that
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:30 (ten years ago) link
Evan's contributing. You're not.
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:31 (ten years ago) link
"if you're publishing really good stuff *for free* on your tumblr/blogspot/livejournal then the people who care will find it"
ha, does he think this works for musicians too?
― festival culture (Jordan), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:33 (ten years ago) link
it's so absurd because every moderately successful artist knows at least one other artist, and often several, who he thinks of as much better than himself but whose work never finds its audience. dude is kidding himself if he thinks charisma & biz savvy aren't utterly crucial to any level of success
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:33 (ten years ago) link
if i admitted it's short for regina not reginald would people be all like oh THAT regina?
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:34 (ten years ago) link
To be fair, there's not much to contribute to a thread which is making the same arguments over and over again against a person who is making the same arguments over and over again.
― Murgatroid, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:34 (ten years ago) link
Heavens to
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:35 (ten years ago) link
hey man unless our betters vouch for us, all we are is dust in the wind
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:37 (ten years ago) link
I don't think I diluted anything about my stance. What I said was the extent of my devil's advocating.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:39 (ten years ago) link
you're pulling a sliver of rational sentiment out of ott's quagmire of nonsense, phrasing it in a sympathetic form ott would never use, and defending it as if that's what people are critiquing. but i'm glad you're admitting to playing devil's advocate.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:44 (ten years ago) link
he's an editor
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:45 (ten years ago) link
i'm not saying anything anybody doesn't know, but, for my own purposes, i just want to have it out there:
national wealth has been significantly erased and unrecovered since the crash of 08. share of income for those outside the upper %s have been flat or declining for a generation. future prospects for returns to labor are not good either. we have high, and chronic unemployment. *youth* unemployment and labor force participation are even worse, are as bad as they've ever been. the numbers for the non-college educated are even more terrifying.
innovations in delivery have rendered old physical media more expensive than they were once worth. turning a dime off ears and eyeballs was fairly easy when the desired information moved on a chunk of vinyl or a sheet of newsprint. bits are cheap, which is a benefit as far as it goes, but it means both the initial supplier (read: the artist/writer) and the middlemen&women have hugely reduced budgets to do their work.
and so, the music industry is collapsing. the media is collapsing. music media is suffering a double collapse, AND young people -- both as consumer and talent pool -- are in the worst circumstances they've found themselves in since we've had rock music. it's stunning to put it that way, you know? put all together i don't think we've seen a worse decade in terms of the headwinds to this particular li'l cultural enterprise. sorry lefsetz, the few bright spot successes of the new models (carly rae? pitchfork itself?) are minor countercurrents to an overall decline.
it's no wonder that music and music media are necessarily shifting away from a consumer-funded one to one more nakedly tied to advertising and PR (though that relationship was always core to the old model anyway). nobody else has any money.
look, the whole ocean is drying up. what's ott's great idea? try to pick off the last few little fish taking a drink? it's pathetic as analysis. get a job? what job?
confronted with this basic contextual blindness he doubles back and says the old media world was just as compromised (prostitution ads in the alt-weeklies!!) and nobody should have ever cared about the subjects of paid writing to begin with -- remember in his vid the contention was that those new boston bands didn't deserve or merit any "national" coverage in the first place, so obviously the women who wrote about them were just happy to be stooges for spinmedia's shadowy backers.
― napgenius (goole), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:52 (ten years ago) link
― da croupier, Thursday, December 5, 2013 2:44 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
No, people were arguing with the idea that it is super easy to get another job, which isn't what he was saying, and they were arguing with the seeming double standard that you can use tumblr or youtube or twitter but somehow other large money making companies are bad. Yet his point was that those platforms give you freedom to cover what you want and in the way you want. So it isn't some contradiction. (There were a few other examples too.) So as I said I was just trying to keep it within what, as far as I could tell, was his actual argument.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:53 (ten years ago) link
xpost yeah, he uses guilt by association a lot: Pelly basically worked for a prostitution ring, Droste is a Nazi because his song was in a Volkswagen ad, etc.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:56 (ten years ago) link
meanwhile Ott appears to work for a multinational alcohol conglomerate
Booming poost goole
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:56 (ten years ago) link
Haha does Ott really work for InBev. That would be rich
evan, if ott was simply arguing that creative freedom is most easily found outside of channels where corporations have the most control, no one would be debating him
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:57 (ten years ago) link
which I have no problem with, but it's a weird position to get on that particular high horse about
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:57 (ten years ago) link
yup! like i said, sub-breitbart. droste hates gays because he's gay and doesn't have kids, he must be against gay adoption. iirc that was his schtick for a few minutes there.
people who reach for whatever shit they can sling in the moment because they're in an argument and just have to win really get stuck in my fucking craw
xp to intheblanks
― napgenius (goole), Thursday, 5 December 2013 19:59 (ten years ago) link
off topic and not to be sycophantic but i am particularly grateful that katherine (on ilx and wherever i've read her) always fights valiantly in discussion on topics related to sexism and music crit to avoid paying the the troll toll and to keep basic civility a base protocol. it's rare and appreciated.
― Strangers look on with a discernible, barely contained ‘wow’. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:02 (ten years ago) link
goole otm+
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:03 (ten years ago) link
― da croupier, Thursday, December 5, 2013 2:57 PM (50 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah I agree that isn't all he was arguing, though I was trying to clear up the phantom arguments he never made in the first place. Saw some stuff misinterpreted imo and wanted to redirect energy to the shitty points that actually deserve it.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:03 (ten years ago) link
i do wonder how this week would be different for this lil circle of critic and critic-adjacents would be different if the videos were just "i like it out here. just a man, his camera, his pride in his trade, and his thoughts on curve. no paycheck on the line. no editor telling me the elders of zion want me to be nicer to curve. i hope someday you'll join me, and the world will live as one."
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:05 (ten years ago) link
good one
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:06 (ten years ago) link
forgive the second "would be different" there, the perils of no editing
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:06 (ten years ago) link
I actually watched one of his Vimeo things from start to finish because that was literally what he was doing. Chris Ott, sitting in a chair framed by a sullen Massachussetts winter background talking about Curve
Or was that what you were referencing
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:08 (ten years ago) link
indeed it is
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:09 (ten years ago) link
no editor telling me the elders of zion want me to be nicer to curve.
idk, do you have to do this? he's indulging in a whole lot of down-punching foolishness but not this particular socialism of fools.
― napgenius (goole), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:10 (ten years ago) link
it was a low blow and i apologize. but my point is that stuff is beautiful. he's got a decent visual sense for a vlogger and a decent on-screen persona, but no one watches it so he has to get closer to the camera and call out all the assholes tainting the love between a man and his shoegaze albums by writing listicles for money
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:12 (ten years ago) link
"No, people were arguing with the idea that it is super easy to get another job, which isn't what he was saying"
no, but he was telling everyone who gets paid for music writing that in order to be morally correct they should get another job, as evidenced by his pulling himself up by his bootstraps and getting one of the most competitive entry-level jobs in the world. and if not, then... forfeit all their income in the name of moral correctness? I said this earlier but if you want to tell me how I can and cannot make money then at least offer me a paycheck so I can do what you say
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:12 (ten years ago) link
re: the "elders" bit pretend i wrote "the advertising-pr-industrial complex" or something
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:15 (ten years ago) link
no thanks
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:16 (ten years ago) link
(man, why did i write that post here and not on my own tumblr? i coulda made something of myself, no hustle. oh well, it's all my employer's dime anyway. during daytime hours at least)
― napgenius (goole), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:18 (ten years ago) link
look, I don't know who you are, and I don't have any issue with you, and if I've said something wrong or bad or entitled or upset anyone, I truly apologize. this isn't sarcastic, it's sincere. but it just seems like as a writer, and as a writer who wants to do the right thing and not be a terrible person, one is at a loss
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:19 (ten years ago) link
i think this dude's got some good ideas in the mix but now that he's found god he'd be better served delivering the word more like pope francis and less like reverend phelps.
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:20 (ten years ago) link
Reminder that ILX is funded by ads and that stet drops the guillotine on anybody InBev tells him to
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:20 (ten years ago) link
question: why are people so fascinated by / willing to engage with chris ott? hundreds of posts. days of twitter analysis. etc
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:22 (ten years ago) link
beats workin i guess
― napgenius (goole), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:23 (ten years ago) link
because he's an extreme example of an familiar impulse and ideology, with sexism and bullying as garnish
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:23 (ten years ago) link
real answers: what he's saying are ideas that are kind of 'in the air' about the industry, what he has said has been needlessly crude and offensive to a lot of people, what he's said are particularly bad answers to good questions.
xp yeah, that
― napgenius (goole), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:24 (ten years ago) link
that's like asking "why are the kardashians famous"
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:25 (ten years ago) link
plus goes without saying he solved the serious k + bennies code
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:25 (ten years ago) link
Well I'm not about to go start reading the Marvel Puzzle Quest Support Group thread
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:26 (ten years ago) link
JOIN US
― SHAUN (DJP), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:26 (ten years ago) link
― katherine, Thursday, December 5, 2013 3:12 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Actually, I'm honestly asking here cause I don't remember exactly how he put it- did he say "You're morally scum unless you get another job" or "don't delude yourself into thinking you're DIY or punk if you have this fabricated corporate force using you"? Because the freshest thing in my mind is that interview with him upthread which I think was closer to the latter. And it seemed to imply a "don't let yourself be used" angle.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:28 (ten years ago) link
hey did you guys hear they dropped the punisher cover today
― Strangers look on with a discernible, barely contained ‘wow’. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:30 (ten years ago) link
issue 1233?
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:34 (ten years ago) link
"Q: What else are you supposed to do? Especially for young people right now. I know tons of writers who are freelancers making so little money, or they're just flat-out unemployed.
A: Get a job. That’s what I did. I got a job.
Q: What about the people who believed they’d some day end up as a full-time writer, then a big shot editor, and they’d fulfill everything they’d ever dreamed of?
A: They’re fucking deluded. I didn’t think that when I was 22, so that’s why I didn’t try to do it. I got a job as an administrative assistant at a book publisher, making twenty-two grand. Everything else has been the sweat of my labor in my career."
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:35 (ten years ago) link
We all better rally the wagons and write Tumblr posts and agonize over Twitter and get Impose to do an interview because some guy who hasn't logged a legitimate clip since 2006 made a video with 3,547 views.
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:36 (ten years ago) link
That video only got 3,457 views but every one of those viewers would later compromise their purity by writing a blurb promoting Deafheaven for InBev ad bucks funneled through a venture capitalist firm
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:38 (ten years ago) link
Katherine, I guess I interpreted it as they're deluded if they don't want to compromise their writing for the sake of ad revenue and demographic targeting and whatever else would manipulate your ability to write freely and get paid that kind of money.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:39 (ten years ago) link
did he say "You're morally scum unless you get another job" or "don't delude yourself into thinking you're DIY or punk if you have this fabricated corporate force using you"?
4:25 of the vid, re: people writing for these companies, "I completely hold you in contempt"
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:39 (ten years ago) link
someday all this tribal warfare may cease
http://m.apnews.com/ap/pm_5067/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=1Gk7456P
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:39 (ten years ago) link
Took a while to get to the point where people are posting about this guy to ask why people are posting about him.
― Position Position, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:39 (ten years ago) link
I interpreted it as "you're deluded if you had dreams of having a successful career and wanted to achieve your dreams. I certainly didn't when I was 22. Instead I got a assistant job at a publishing house [ed. note. lol] and pulled myself up by my bootstraps."
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:42 (ten years ago) link
I know he wouldn't put it this nicely but I still think the core point was: You're going to have to play that game or you're going to have a really hard time being successful as a pro writer.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:44 (ten years ago) link
da croupier- Ah yes, thanks. I don't know. Feel like the interview is a slight back pedaling after being challenged for the shit in the video. Only slight.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:45 (ten years ago) link
I just don't see that as his core point, or maybe that'd be his core point minus the moralizing.
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:46 (ten years ago) link
I blame Bill Hicks for all of this
― wk, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:50 (ten years ago) link
To clarify: obviously there are people who are successful full time writers, he wouldn't deny that. So I think the context he's driving at is that if your dreams involve not having your opinions edited to cater to your sponsors that dream is really tough to achieve in this day and age.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:52 (ten years ago) link
xp Hicks is at least partially responsible for the still ongoing appeal of the angry white dude.
― Murgatroid, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
...and be a successful full time writer of course.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
oddly enough, bill hicks specifically dismissed young actors trying to make a buck (and irs victims like willie nelson) from his "fuck you for doing advertising" bit, saving his contempt for folks like jay leno who didn't need the money. though i'm sure he'd also be grumpy about folks eager to shill.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:54 (ten years ago) link
he'd be way more likely to call out "hey can we get a photo of you guys holding our beer" social media vultures (probably from a "fuck off and let me drink in peace" perspective) more than journalists who talk about cool shit in major pubs
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:55 (ten years ago) link
I'm just thinking of that general idea that you can make a really facile, naive critique of advertising, deliver it as a macho angry rant, and people will look at you as some kind of countercultural rebel bravely speaking truth to power and sticking it to the man.
― wk, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:57 (ten years ago) link
oh i get it, just noting that ott's stance is even less practical and sympathetic than hicks
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:58 (ten years ago) link
plus, season to taste with a dash or two of misogyny and homophobia
― wk, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:00 (ten years ago) link
xp to myself, forgot important part of the recipe
― wk, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:01 (ten years ago) link
I suck at baking- all my pompadours come out flat and crusty and bitter.
― Evan, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:04 (ten years ago) link
― da croupier, Thursday, December 5, 2013 2:54 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i was just thinking of this, trying to extrapolate the ott critique, such as it is, to other artforms.
should the jobbing actor or writer not take the sitcom gig? that's about as direct and ad-funded and pr-besotted medium there is. are movies better? those are funded by the previous season's receipts at least, right.
maybe stick to classical, an even more sharply draining pool, funded (as far as i can tell) by the state and the remaining few rich people who give a shit about it. perfect!
― napgenius (goole), Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:05 (ten years ago) link
Despite certain parts of his philosophy that have some vague appeal, I don't see Bill Hicks as a person anyone should aspire to be like. Honestly, it's perplexing that he's become the icon that he has.
― Poliopolice, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:08 (ten years ago) link
Despite certain parts of his philosophy that have some vague appeal, I don't see Bill Hicks as a person anyone should aspire to be like. Honestly, it's perplexing that he's become the icon that he has.Despite certain parts of his philosophy that have some vague appeal, I don't see Bill Hicks as a person anyone should aspire to be like. Honestly, it's perplexing that he's become Despite certain parts of his philosophy that have some vague appeal, I don't see Bill Hicks as a person anyone should aspire to be like. Honestly, it's perplexing that he's become the icon that he has.the icon that he has.Despite certain parts of his philosophy that have some vague appeal, I don't see Bill Hicks as a person anyone should aspire to be like. Honestly, it's perplexing that he's become the icon that he has.Despite certain parts of his philosophy that have some vague appeal, I don't see Bill Hicks as a person anyone should aspiDespite certain parts of his philosophy that have some vague appeal, I don't see Bill Hicks as a person anyone should aspire to be like. Honestly, it's perplexing that he's become the icon that he has.re to be like. Honestly, it's perplexing that he's become the icon that he has.
― Damo Suzuki's Parrot, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:09 (ten years ago) link
― napgenius (goole), Thursday, December 5, 2013 4:05 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
That's not quite the analogy though - he would be critiquing Peter Travers while championing, idk, Slant magazine (although I don't know how Slant is funded)
That's sort of what I was getting at upthread w/ the Kevin Shields reference - why not turn your BLINDING SPOTLIGHT of EXPOSING CORPORATE INFLUENCE on the bands themselves if you really want to make this a platform
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:12 (ten years ago) link
Like he doesn't even care that any band he's currently into that has enough funds to actually put out a record is probably funded indirectly by the same corporate overlords that bought SPIN
Or maybe he only listens to music nowadays that is burned onto CD-Rs and the bands break up before they get too big
But he still makes plenty of time to listen to Curve
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:14 (ten years ago) link
On the last point he's not wrong.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:16 (ten years ago) link
I heard "Horror Head" the other day and thought, "Hm, I need to make time to listen to Curve."
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:17 (ten years ago) link
I learned from his vimeo actually that curve was pretty forthright in their commercial aspirations
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:18 (ten years ago) link
Like it's probably much more appropriate to accuse curve of selling out than it is to point a finger at a freelancer who sold a blog post for $50 to THEFADER to pay rent
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:20 (ten years ago) link
has he ever mentioned spc eco or chatelaine or rose berlin, if he's that concerned about highlighting currently working acts
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:30 (ten years ago) link
Speedy Ortizwe've added an NME Awards Show on february 18th, so those of you who missed tickets for the ATP london show can still come hang out
buy the$e ticket$ becau$e capitali$m and corporate $pon$or$hip top$hop
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 5 December 2013 21:33 (ten years ago) link
getting paid to write about music is pennies from heaven imo. if music writing is the least profitable arm of many large corporations, who don't really care who does the job or how well they do it, i don't really see the issue with putting that money in my pocket, where it makes a difference for me, and doing the job better than the next guy might or covering stuff the next guy might not. i mean, in my day job, i work very a very lefty small independent business and we very frequently have to work with/for prominent republicans and all other kinds of corporate scum, so as moral compromises go this is weak sauce to me.
― deez the season (some dude), Thursday, 5 December 2013 22:02 (ten years ago) link
oh but the purity of diy
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 5 December 2013 22:12 (ten years ago) link
I gotta back it up and say that this thing katherine linked to
Was really great
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 22:17 (ten years ago) link
def
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Thursday, 5 December 2013 22:22 (ten years ago) link
it really is good, in the sense that it is disturbing. if people wonder why I take stuff like this so seriously things like what gets described in that post are why
― katherine, Thursday, 5 December 2013 23:10 (ten years ago) link
am i being a contrarian if i think it's not interesting really? or extremely non-revelatory. and some of the answers are shortsighted & it's, like, here's an anecdotal response to a statistical thing. [lindsay wrote a great piece recently tho about tuning out twitter which i enjoyed]
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 5 December 2013 23:17 (ten years ago) link
Well I think it lays clear its 'methodology' in the opening so if 'anecdotal response to a statistical thing' is a criticism, it's very self-aware of that
xp Yeah 'really great' is the wrong choice of phrase but I just found it really interesting
― 乒乓, Thursday, 5 December 2013 23:20 (ten years ago) link
it's sad. i get turned off by music talk with men for similar reasons, then when i do it i find myself complicit in it which is worse. that habitual internalized greek chorus of objective measurement of bands, albums. is it because music is basically queer that it has to be so patriarched all the goddamn time.
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Thursday, 5 December 2013 23:27 (ten years ago) link
yes, that's exactly it.
Results 1 - 10 of about 256 for gaydiohead. (0.28 seconds)
― deez the season (some dude), Thursday, 5 December 2013 23:28 (ten years ago) link
― Murgatroid, Thursday, 5 December 2013 20:53 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
so fucking glad I haven't participated in this thread. as are the rest of you, probably
― veneer timber (imago), Thursday, 5 December 2013 23:38 (ten years ago) link
the idea of ott big-upping curve was funnier when i was misreading it as "cursive"
― reddening, Thursday, 5 December 2013 23:38 (ten years ago) link
<3 goole itt
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 5 December 2013 23:47 (ten years ago) link
Rightly so.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 December 2013 00:06 (ten years ago) link
this was all fun and games for Ned until shoegaze bands starting becoming guilty by association
― deez the season (some dude), Friday, 6 December 2013 00:32 (ten years ago) link
Things took an ugly turn then.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 December 2013 00:56 (ten years ago) link
i just watched one half of two of this guy's videos and i can't believe a person like this exists and that people expend keystrokes over him
he pretty plainly has nothing to offer as a critic except a lot of hyperbolic impressionistic hooey
above all it seems like he just fell down some indie rabbit hole years ago and has yet to emerge
some people take themselves too seriously
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 6 December 2013 05:35 (ten years ago) link
just catching up lol
"Fucking idiot sheeple writers just feeding the capitalist beast"
vs
"Fucking idiot sheeple writers think they should get paid for their work... that's not what the capitalist beast wants! How dare you disobey the desires of the capitalist beast"
"I am the example. I vlog the fuck out of music all darn day and I don't get paid a cent. I am not obeying the capitalist beast. I am actively disobeying the capitalist beast by refusing to let it pay me all the money it wants to pay me. That really gets its goat."
"I think I'm in love with the capitalist beast but it feeds me these impure thoughts and my priest is on vacation and"
"People really listen to me (when I'm saying the names of non-famous people and then talking shit about those names) and no one makes a cent (except Youtube) off of it (except Youtube)."
"Also, DIY scenes suck and the music is the worst and no one should give a shit about them and we should protect them with all our purity."
"Y'know, they called someone else a troll, too. Maybe you've heard of him... his name was... Jesus Christ."
also
"I literally have no fucking idea how to respond to the accusations of sexism so I am literally going to make up some stuff about women writers getting worshiped as goddesses from shiftless, masturbating men. I'm not vain, I'm just saying, if my projections aren't trustworthy than what is?"
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Friday, 6 December 2013 05:38 (ten years ago) link
or
??????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Friday, 6 December 2013 05:39 (ten years ago) link
if i want to hear challenging opinions like that i'll just knock on my downstairs neighbor's door and offer him a beer
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 6 December 2013 05:40 (ten years ago) link
i don't understand him but i also don't understand why anyone is defending any of this shit. if you want to make your point, make YOUR fucking point instead of sticking it in the mouth of someone 1. completely unable to make it for himself 2. completely unable to make it without being a shitty human being 3. entitled enough to expect everyone to understand his tantrums without you clarifying
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Friday, 6 December 2013 05:41 (ten years ago) link
it reminds me of the cottage industry of kanyesplaining that's been going on the last few months
― deez the season (some dude), Friday, 6 December 2013 05:45 (ten years ago) link
lol i haven't read a thing on kanye this year but that's been going on foreeeeeever hasn't it. i can at least understand the ever-popular "no look kanye is a magical unicorn" undercurrent, i have no idea what the impetus is for defending ott rather than just stating an opinion relevant to the subject ("subject") without trying to force a cosmic connection with The Artist Himself
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Friday, 6 December 2013 06:02 (ten years ago) link
it's funny how this thread has existed for 10 years now, not because of Ott's antics that have been going on for at least that long, but because he dared to insult The Band Alex In NYC Really Likes That's Not Killing Joke.
― deez the season (some dude), Friday, 6 December 2013 06:05 (ten years ago) link
the wonder stuff?
― balls, Friday, 6 December 2013 06:09 (ten years ago) link
Cop Shoot Cop
― the tune was space, Friday, 6 December 2013 06:13 (ten years ago) link
Who Do You Think You Are Kidding, Mr. Schreiber?
― buzza, Friday, 6 December 2013 06:16 (ten years ago) link
https://twitter.com/jensenclan88/status/408847549991096320
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 6 December 2013 06:58 (ten years ago) link
Is the article this was initially responding to online anywhere still?The original link 404ed.I mean I can just about imagine what it's like but would'nt mind a quick peruse. I'm still intrigued by what the scale of popularity of PF is since I have no way of guaging it? Or a norm to compare with. I stumbled on it by googling non-mainstream records I again wouldn't know the popularity of & don't think anybody I know who might be aware of it is exactly mainstream. So its difficult to landmark a horizon for its popularity. What would it compare to?
― Stevolende, Friday, 6 December 2013 10:04 (ten years ago) link
Otterface
― imago hard or go haim (wins), Friday, 6 December 2013 10:47 (ten years ago) link
Actually that article ended uo being the thing that got me into the Melvins
― kA+herine (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 6 December 2013 12:31 (ten years ago) link
*up
zachlyon those were some very hard body posts, we could lock thread now I think
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 6 December 2013 14:14 (ten years ago) link
"if my projections aren't trustworthy than what is"
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 6 December 2013 14:45 (ten years ago) link
yeah man that was top notch
― napgenius (goole), Friday, 6 December 2013 14:59 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K8A1AmtyVo&feature=player_embedded
― afriendlypioneer, Friday, 6 December 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K8A1AmtyVo
what the fuck
― call all destroyer, Friday, 6 December 2013 17:19 (ten years ago) link
i mean that is not an actual thing right
― call all destroyer, Friday, 6 December 2013 17:20 (ten years ago) link
man is /mu/ something people have to pay attn to?
― napgenius (goole), Friday, 6 December 2013 17:21 (ten years ago) link
the only thing I know about it is that they have a massively circulated memelistphotothing of the albums everyone should listen to, which is more or less exactly what you think it is
― katherine, Friday, 6 December 2013 17:24 (ten years ago) link
i think i need to step away from my laptop for a little bit
― call all destroyer, Friday, 6 December 2013 17:25 (ten years ago) link
http://4chanmusic.wikia.com/wiki/4chanmusic_Wiki
― 乒乓, Friday, 6 December 2013 17:26 (ten years ago) link
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Jay-Z%26R.KellyBestofBothWorlds.jpg
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 6 December 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
http://4chanmusic.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Mucore
― katherine, Friday, 6 December 2013 17:39 (ten years ago) link
lol men
― maura, Friday, 6 December 2013 17:52 (ten years ago) link
whole damn thing essentially feels like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTGKzWDakK8
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 6 December 2013 17:57 (ten years ago) link
dying at ILX just discovering /mu/
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 6 December 2013 18:41 (ten years ago) link
/mu/-two
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 6 December 2013 18:44 (ten years ago) link
but seriously, can someone explain to me why there's a video with audio clips of ott and some other guy, set to visuals of wintry landscapes, with bon iver playing?
why does this exist?
― call all destroyer, Friday, 6 December 2013 18:48 (ten years ago) link
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, December 6, 2013 12:41 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i knew it existed but i don't fuck with that place, come on
― napgenius (goole), Friday, 6 December 2013 18:53 (ten years ago) link
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, December 6, 2013 6:41 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This is some real slick insider bullshit peacockery
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Friday, 6 December 2013 19:02 (ten years ago) link
personally i'm gonna take it as a point of pride that i had no idea it existed
― call all destroyer, Friday, 6 December 2013 19:04 (ten years ago) link
Word
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Friday, 6 December 2013 19:37 (ten years ago) link
always good to see 'u don't know something haha' totally a classic internet sentiment
― intheblanks, Friday, 6 December 2013 20:40 (ten years ago) link
4chan's Alexa rating in United States: 368 Pitchfork's: 1,410
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 6 December 2013 21:22 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1jJENKW1nI
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Friday, 6 December 2013 21:35 (ten years ago) link
bragging that i know this incredibly popular, far-reaching thing, ok lets have more talk about girl slugs night unit wut wut
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 6 December 2013 21:38 (ten years ago) link
http://man-over-board.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/head-up-butt.png
can't believe ilx doesn't know what's going on in here, super hilar brah
― Joe Jack Herpes (Old Lunch), Friday, 6 December 2013 21:38 (ten years ago) link
haha yep
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 6 December 2013 21:57 (ten years ago) link
considering how this latest revive started, snarking about the alexa rankings of 4chan seems about as an appropriate way as any for it to end
― My Chief Keef Keef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 6 December 2013 22:04 (ten years ago) link
Roll Credits
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Friday, 6 December 2013 22:04 (ten years ago) link
I may start a fantasy novel titled The Alexa Rankings of 4chan next year
― SHAUN (DJP), Friday, 6 December 2013 22:05 (ten years ago) link
In a website...
― Strangers look on with a discernible, barely contained ‘wow’. (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 December 2013 22:07 (ten years ago) link
lol whiney if you really think it's /mu/ that boosts 4chan's Alexa rate at anywhere near the level of /b/, then it's you who are an out-of-touch old-ass man my friend
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 6 December 2013 23:36 (ten years ago) link
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_chord
― Skatalite of Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 6 December 2013 23:39 (ten years ago) link
you don't have to be affluent to write about music as a hobby. Not sure where that idea is coming from.
― sarahell, Friday, 6 December 2013 23:44 (ten years ago) link
you need a certain amount of free time.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Saturday, 7 December 2013 00:20 (ten years ago) link
idk most of the people i know who write about music as a hobby are not affluent
― sarahell, Saturday, 7 December 2013 00:20 (ten years ago) link
that you can devote to concerns very distant from those regarding food and shelter for yourself and your family.
and you need even more time to follow what's going on more broadly and engage with it, and time on top of that to assemble thoughts and hone them.
otherwise you're not necessarily writing, you're just putting letters on a screen.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Saturday, 7 December 2013 00:21 (ten years ago) link
you certainly don't need to be in the 1%. but you do need secure employment, of the sort where you only have one job, probably.
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Saturday, 7 December 2013 00:22 (ten years ago) link
writing about music as a hobby is less time and money intensive than being an amateur musician, and if you want to argue that you have to be affluent to be an amateur musician, then i would say you need to get out more.
― sarahell, Saturday, 7 December 2013 00:26 (ten years ago) link
writing about music as a hobby is less time and money intensive than being an amateur musician, and if you want to argue that you have to be affluent to be an amateur musician, then i would say you need to get out more. --sarahell
Someone post that Cord Jefferson article about middle class privledge and media jobs, I'm on my phone
― tuostprophets (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 7 December 2013 00:54 (ten years ago) link
with an IMPORTANT CLIENT
― socki (s1ocki), Saturday, 7 December 2013 00:56 (ten years ago) link
Being an amateur musician is easy
Learn three chords on the guitar and you're basically done
― 乒乓, Saturday, 7 December 2013 00:59 (ten years ago) link
I'm not saying that it would be a level playing field in terms of "success" -- or that writers should write for free -- but only that if one wants to write about music but cannot support oneself with the meager wages that "playing the game" gets you, it is something one can do as a hobby. Lots of people do it, just like there are lots of people who are amateur musicians. It isn't like writing a review of an Arcade Fire album or a think piece on slut-shaming in pop music requires the level of resources as writing a doctoral dissertation.
― sarahell, Saturday, 7 December 2013 01:04 (ten years ago) link
same thing with being an amateur music critic too. three words (angular, ethereal, visceral) and off you go. xp
― deez the season (some dude), Saturday, 7 December 2013 01:06 (ten years ago) link
Again, I am not agreeing with Ott's Randian premise of the cream will always rise to the top in terms of talent. Not at all.
― sarahell, Saturday, 7 December 2013 01:07 (ten years ago) link
― combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned),
Basically this is the truth, and it's really just a matter of how the artist wants to deal with it -- play the game or be a hobbyist or quit entirely
― sarahell, Saturday, 7 December 2013 01:13 (ten years ago) link
i have successfully avoided everything about this for several days, but something compelled me to click on the video today, and i had to stop at "the ceo of complex media, he lives in an almost million dollar apartment in turtle bay."
that's like complaining that "the editor of my website, he spent almost five dollars on a beer."
― i play too fast (which is the sign of an amateur) (fact checking cuz), Saturday, 7 December 2013 01:52 (ten years ago) link
the CEO of Shallow Rewards, Inc. doesn't live so lavishly, i'll have you know. he won't even take a vacation on a cruise line unless he can get somebody else to foot the bill.
― deez the season (some dude), Saturday, 7 December 2013 01:57 (ten years ago) link
today's historic inequality doesn't at all impact music/criticism imho. and even if it does, it's boring and not worth talking about, because it's not like there've ever been any songs about social justice
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 7 December 2013 02:13 (ten years ago) link
it's germane to Ott's claims that are at the root of this discussion, but i won't say that's "worth talking about" itself really, so point taken
― deez the season (some dude), Saturday, 7 December 2013 02:18 (ten years ago) link
Take a poorly composed potshot at Cop Shoot Cop and pay the price.
― Alex in NYC, Sunday, 8 December 2013 23:23 (ten years ago) link
Ott Shoot Ott
― The Glam Of That All The Way From Memphis Man! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 8 December 2013 23:26 (ten years ago) link
noooooooo
― SHAUN (DJP), Sunday, 8 December 2013 23:26 (ten years ago) link
sorry
― The Glam Of That All The Way From Memphis Man! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 8 December 2013 23:35 (ten years ago) link
xp to Sarahell. It depends what you mean by music journalism. Sure, album reviews and thinkpieces can easily be done in your spare time but anything that involves reporting can't. I don't want to read nothing but opinion pieces and that's what you get if anyone has to work for free.
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, 9 December 2013 10:08 (ten years ago) link
Angry Ott is angry.
https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/441615906679291904
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:44 (ten years ago) link
is he angry because a woman is making music, or because a woman is writing about it, this time?
― socki (s1ocki), Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:45 (ten years ago) link
both obv, although not in the tweet Ned linked, just this one
https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/441301111207505920
― he always came across as a great guy in Kerrang! in the 90s (some dude), Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:50 (ten years ago) link
apparently he's mad at ilx c---s
― PSY talks The Nut Job (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:50 (ten years ago) link
this guy is so pathetic and sad
― you are clinically deaf and should sell you iPod (stevie), Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:51 (ten years ago) link
it's kind of awesome to watch someone completely bury themselves so publicly imo. a few years ago he still had a vague air of legitimacy to people who hadn't seen his ILM antics, twitter is so magical.
― he always came across as a great guy in Kerrang! in the 90s (some dude), Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:53 (ten years ago) link
it's hilarious that he won't type cunt
why won't he type cunt
― le goon (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:53 (ten years ago) link
κ↑ℵζ φ∩ς⌊Ξ @shallowrewards 53m.@natepatrin Subscribing to outmoded definitions of information legitimacy and hierarchy also comes to mind.
κ↑ℵζ φ∩ς⌊Ξ @shallowrewards 53m@natepatrin You will never be more than that to me.
^^^ shit got real
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:53 (ten years ago) link
Does he respond to everything by singing the Malcolm in the Middle theme song? Sure seems like it.
― EZ Snappin, Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:55 (ten years ago) link
why are we bumping this thread tho
― lex pretend, Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:55 (ten years ago) link
what all is on the master list of subjects that require ott's input
― mookieproof, Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:56 (ten years ago) link
well, we do subscribe to outmoded definitions of info legitimacy, lex
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:57 (ten years ago) link
good idea. i say we get in any closing comments we have by 1pm EST and then let the thread go dormant again. (xp)
― he always came across as a great guy in Kerrang! in the 90s (some dude), Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:57 (ten years ago) link
there is nothing real about this shit whatsoever
― you are clinically deaf and should sell you iPod (stevie), Thursday, 6 March 2014 17:58 (ten years ago) link
it's kind of awesome to watch someone completely bury themselves so publicly imo
i think he's only increasing his brand/worth with this stuff
― VegemiteG I R L (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:01 (ten years ago) link
cool
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:04 (ten years ago) link
is c---s a type of furry? if not Ott whiffed at a massive opportunity in this twatbeef imho.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:05 (ten years ago) link
ott beefs are really fun, i hope this blows up more
― marcos, Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:42 (ten years ago) link
the guy is super entertaining however much of an asshole he is
i approve
kind of hard to follow tho-- did Ott coin "Night Bus"?
― I got the glares, the mutterings, the snarls (President Keyes), Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:43 (ten years ago) link
no but i think he put together a series of mixtapes based on the themes patrin talks about in his paper?
― marcos, Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:45 (ten years ago) link
sorry, just still getting this straight, Ott is mad that he wasn't interviewed by Nate Patrin about some mixtapes he made a few years ago?
dude must have some heavy duty google alerts set up to find shit that obscure to get cheesed about
― brio, Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:52 (ten years ago) link
can we change this thread title to Chris Ott gets Cheesed
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:53 (ten years ago) link
you better interview me about it if you do!
― brio, Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:54 (ten years ago) link
better yet get Nate Patrin to interview me about it... OR ELSE you ILXOR CUNTS
― brio, Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:55 (ten years ago) link
Hipinion invented night bus, thought out its tenets, and made mixtapes, all of which Ott was crucial in. It didn't have a fraction of the legs as "seapunk" and didn't make any actual waves beyond being half-jokingly referenced in a few e-zine interviews with Tumblr-core musicians.
Nate Patrin is basically doing an academic paper on a message board thread.
― VegemiteG I R L (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:57 (ten years ago) link
This Night Bus mixtape by Hipinion poster CFCF has 6 Facebook Likes: https://www.thefader.com/2011/11/01/cfcf-night-bus-ii-mix-mp3/
― VegemiteG I R L (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 March 2014 18:58 (ten years ago) link
Hipinion invented night bus, thought out its tenets
http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/mnmusicfan_1332456363_John-Goodman_.png
"I mean, say what you will about the tenants of Night Bus, Dude, at least it was an ethos!"
― gimme the lute (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:00 (ten years ago) link
People were allowed to have legit meltdowns on here when someone suggested turning ILX into a book, but Ott basically gets a message board thread hijacked and you guys are pointing and laughing?
― VegemiteG I R L (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:01 (ten years ago) link
for shame, people.
― socki (s1ocki), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:02 (ten years ago) link
not cool
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:03 (ten years ago) link
hahha
― VegemiteG I R L (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:03 (ten years ago) link
later guys, just got my advance for my book about "New Jersey"s
― I got the glares, the mutterings, the snarls (President Keyes), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:05 (ten years ago) link
it's hilarious that he won't type cuntwhy won't he type cunt
he was typing "coyote" actually
― death and darkness and other night kinda shit (crüt), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:09 (ten years ago) link
late to this whole thang, but just a query about clarification: did Ott himself coin the genre term? was he the poster who turned a Burial song title into a genre? If so, then Patrin ought to at last acknowledge and cite that fact in his talk, though he's under no obligation to do so in an abstract of a conference paper (abstracts are always general summaries and often short on details, it's the nature of the format). The language of "stake-holding" seem kinda jacked up and over-stated here. Critics trying to "own" genres seems weirdly secondary anyway (just imagine how presumptuous the "stake holding" assertion would sound to your ears if you were, say, Burial).
― the tune was space, Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:09 (ten years ago) link
it's not a real genre, though!
This isn't like "post-rock" or even "chillwave." This is about the contents of something that barely left a single message board thread
― VegemiteG I R L (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:12 (ten years ago) link
the second night bus mixtape was pretty cool
― no war but glass war (Lamp), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:12 (ten years ago) link
had no idea it started as an ilx thread though
― no war but glass war (Lamp), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:13 (ten years ago) link
i have been to several "night bus" club nights!
― socki (s1ocki), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:15 (ten years ago) link
i mean, ott demanding stakeholder status is super dumb, but he wouldn't even have to pull that card if someone didn't do the EVEN DUMBER thing of turning his series of message board mixtapes into an academic paper to be read at a rock museum
― VegemiteG I R L (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:15 (ten years ago) link
this will be a stain on this comically-designed rock museum's honour for all time
― socki (s1ocki), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:16 (ten years ago) link
Lamp is the only person on this board I trust to really walk the night bus walk
― death and darkness and other night kinda shit (crüt), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:17 (ten years ago) link
i don't think ott needed to be interviewed and i also think he is an asshole but if the central concept of patrin's article originated in a given place and patrin doesn't acknowledge that place, that's kind of shitty? i haven't read the article so i don't know whether he acknowledges the origin or not (excluding the burial song, obv)
― marcos, Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:17 (ten years ago) link
here's the abstract
“Under a Street Halo: Night Bus and the Commuter Soundtrack”
For a brief stretch of the early 2010s, Night Bus was a scene that wasn't. It had its dubious origins on a music message board as a tongue-in-cheek pseudo-genre, sharing its name with a track from minimal dubstep star Burial's landmark 2006 debut. Whatever it was meant to convey—post-last-call transit rides home, foggy with fading inebriation and heavy with melancholy—was later consolidated onto a 2010 mixtape, Do U Like Night Bus? by Montreal electronic musician CFCF. And while there were several forms of music that fit under its overarching category—dubstep, UK garage, cloud rap, minimalist R&B, witch house, and ambient—Night Bus seemed constructed more around a sense of mood than one of aesthetic constraints.
But what gives a song that Night Bus quality, and how does that tie in with the feeling of riding after dark at the end of a long night? This paper will break down the connection from multiple angles: the stop-start rhythms of public transportation, the effect of private headphone soundtracks accentuating public journeys, the emotional qualities of long trips home in fluorescently-lit introspection, and how the dynamics involved in songs that ideally soundtrack being a passenger differ from the more established precedent of the “driving music” that fits a trip behind the wheel.
The soundtrack will run through a few different lines, starting with a personal recollection of the pivotal work of mid-00s dubsteppers like Burial, Kode9, and Skream, then sprawling out like a subway map to highlight routes through auteurs of instrumental hip-hop (Clams Casino, DJ Burn One, Flying Lotus), R&B (The Weeknd, Jeremih, Bilal), bass music (James Blake, Forest Swords, Bibio), and contemporary ambient (Tim Hecker, Emeralds).
― VegemiteG I R L (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:20 (ten years ago) link
haha i didn't read the article and clearly i barely even read the abtract
― marcos, Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:21 (ten years ago) link
it is admittedly an interesting genre patrin has coined there
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:22 (ten years ago) link
it basically seems to be "here is a way of looking at music that i think is cool," since when does everything have to be about a mt dew-approved scene for ppl to talk about it
― socki (s1ocki), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:24 (ten years ago) link
― I got the glares, the mutterings, the snarls (President Keyes), Thursday, March 6, 2014 1:05 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you have to interview me that's the ILX cunt law
― gimme the lute (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:24 (ten years ago) link
i agree with whiney in that is pretty embarrassing for nate patrin to write a pseudoacademic paper about the burial-mixtape-as-genre he invented but i dont understand what the other dude is so angry about
― no war but glass war (Lamp), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:25 (ten years ago) link
whats really embarrassing is 'bass music'
― no war but glass war (Lamp), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:26 (ten years ago) link
i dont understand what the other dude is so angry about
No one had paid attention to him for at least a week.
― Humorist (horse) (誤訳侮辱), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:27 (ten years ago) link
Chris Ott invented the Night Bus? In that case can he do something about the persistent funky smell on the N159 and maybe move the stop a little closer to John Lewis? Thanks!
― my stories are boring and stuff (Branwell Bell), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:27 (ten years ago) link
it's kind of like how The Misfits were left out of Please Kill Me, except not interesting
― brio, Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:29 (ten years ago) link
I think it's pretty clear from the trail of breadcrumbs as it were that patrin invented the genre. ott just made a mix tape some months later and I guess was hoping to get it picked up by DJkicks and to be called in as a panelist for EMP. when neither came to pass he lashed out. he's probably over it now. Anyway congratulations to patrin.
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:31 (ten years ago) link
[cit. needed]
― PSY talks The Nut Job (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:35 (ten years ago) link
Going Cheese: Chris Ott, ILX Cunts, and the Prison of Belief
― 4. Nels Cline and My Uncle Eat Soup at Panera Bread (3:37) (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:37 (ten years ago) link
ain't it funny how the night bus moves
― he always came across as a great guy in Kerrang! in the 90s (some dude), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:48 (ten years ago) link
while this seems like a pretty flimsy thing to write a paper on, I wouldn't be surprised if message boards become a topic of academic interest
― I got the glares, the mutterings, the snarls (President Keyes), Thursday, 6 March 2014 19:50 (ten years ago) link
― he always came across as a great guy in Kerrang! in the 90s (some dude), Thursday, March 6, 2014 2:48 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
okay you got me there, major larfs
― the tune was space, Thursday, 6 March 2014 20:01 (ten years ago) link
Nate posted a response to some of you over on Facebook:
So that big Twitter back-and-forth between me and Ott has spilled over into some ILX debate that I wish I could clarify there. (see link below.) Since I can't post there -- I forgot my login info some 7ish years and three computers ago -- I wanted to point out a couple things.1) My snarking at Ott was probably a bad idea, since the feeling of being set upon by outsiders is the fuel that sets his nitro-burning funny car on a collision course with wackiness. That said, the fact that we don't actually follow each other on Twitter but he jumped right out with a "MUST CREDIT ME" beef moments after I posted the link to my EMP abstract set off a big red flag. I do my best not to get wrapped up in inane beefs like that, since it almost never produces anything of value (unless you value hate-@s), but years of me being fed up with him shitting on my critical peers and friends took reckless precedence this time.2) That said, he jumped to a lot of defensive conclusions based solely on the abstract (and probably a grudge against Pitchfork, ILX, whatever he ate for breakfast, etcetera), and while I didn't mention Hipinion by name in the abstract itself (and used unfair, heat-of-argument terms like 'circle-jerk' to describe the thread he claims I hijacked), I planned on attributing the messageboard and giving them their due, much like every circa-2011 "What Is Night Bus?" article I found on the Web did.3) In fact, the paper I have planned (and haven't finished yet) starts with the idea that it's possible for something to start as a joke or a parody -- or at least come across like one, as most HRO-voice excursions in to subgenre-coinage are -- yet still get at something that actually resonates in wider terms outside of genre, as the CFCF mixes (which are rooted in that Hipinion dialogue) set out to prove.4) And even then, aside from the necessary introductory historical context as mentioned above, the paper's almost entirely about pointing out, exploring, and emphasizing the aesthetics that these early adopters were getting at -- not claiming ownership over it, sanitizing it, or creating a revisionist history. Especially since "night bus" has since been discounted and declared "dead" by trend-fatigued bloggers and has largely fallen out of use.5) I have no interest in gaining "cred" or whatever -- I've already done a couple EMP panels in the past, and it's a fun thing I get to do every so often as a way to connect with other music enthusiasts. Mostly I'm just interested in throwing around some ideas without the expectation that they'll be taken as gospel in academic circles. (And not to diminish said academic circles, but I'm far more interested in getting into dialogues with people from more journalistic/critical circles.)
1) My snarking at Ott was probably a bad idea, since the feeling of being set upon by outsiders is the fuel that sets his nitro-burning funny car on a collision course with wackiness. That said, the fact that we don't actually follow each other on Twitter but he jumped right out with a "MUST CREDIT ME" beef moments after I posted the link to my EMP abstract set off a big red flag. I do my best not to get wrapped up in inane beefs like that, since it almost never produces anything of value (unless you value hate-@s), but years of me being fed up with him shitting on my critical peers and friends took reckless precedence this time.
2) That said, he jumped to a lot of defensive conclusions based solely on the abstract (and probably a grudge against Pitchfork, ILX, whatever he ate for breakfast, etcetera), and while I didn't mention Hipinion by name in the abstract itself (and used unfair, heat-of-argument terms like 'circle-jerk' to describe the thread he claims I hijacked), I planned on attributing the messageboard and giving them their due, much like every circa-2011 "What Is Night Bus?" article I found on the Web did.
3) In fact, the paper I have planned (and haven't finished yet) starts with the idea that it's possible for something to start as a joke or a parody -- or at least come across like one, as most HRO-voice excursions in to subgenre-coinage are -- yet still get at something that actually resonates in wider terms outside of genre, as the CFCF mixes (which are rooted in that Hipinion dialogue) set out to prove.
4) And even then, aside from the necessary introductory historical context as mentioned above, the paper's almost entirely about pointing out, exploring, and emphasizing the aesthetics that these early adopters were getting at -- not claiming ownership over it, sanitizing it, or creating a revisionist history. Especially since "night bus" has since been discounted and declared "dead" by trend-fatigued bloggers and has largely fallen out of use.
5) I have no interest in gaining "cred" or whatever -- I've already done a couple EMP panels in the past, and it's a fun thing I get to do every so often as a way to connect with other music enthusiasts. Mostly I'm just interested in throwing around some ideas without the expectation that they'll be taken as gospel in academic circles. (And not to diminish said academic circles, but I'm far more interested in getting into dialogues with people from more journalistic/critical circles.)
― Murgatroid, Thursday, 6 March 2014 20:04 (ten years ago) link
honeybus > night bus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn0hsxzE5eU
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 6 March 2014 20:42 (ten years ago) link
fresher than the sweetness in water...
― afriendlypioneer, Thursday, 6 March 2014 21:02 (ten years ago) link
Thanks, Nate!
― nitro-burning funny car (Moodles), Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:00 (ten years ago) link
haha, nate's post convinces me to scroll back up the thread to get the whole story.
i'm sure all that guy wants is for you to reject "the man," man, and post content free on a blog. like god intended when he created the earth 6,000 years ago.
― Daniel, Esq 2, Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:02 (ten years ago) link
Live vlog and prosper
― Evan, Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:31 (ten years ago) link
patrin doesn't know how to sign up for a new account?
― JoeStork, Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:36 (ten years ago) link
Or maybe he doesn't want one
― Scooby Doom (۩), Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:40 (ten years ago) link
He seems to look upon this board with nearly as much scorn as Ott
― nitro-burning funny car (Moodles), Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:45 (ten years ago) link
*cries*
― Derping 2, Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:48 (ten years ago) link
well, that's fine, but "i can't post there" comes off a little disingenuous then.
― JoeStork, Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:49 (ten years ago) link
he meant "I can't post there because it makes me feel unclean"
― nitro-burning funny car (Moodles), Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:52 (ten years ago) link
Why should he sign up again to make one post? Why does it matter if someone posts that thought for him?
― EZ Snappin, Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:53 (ten years ago) link
"i can't post here because i don't care enough about you jackholes to sign up for another gd email account"
― Derping 2, Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:55 (ten years ago) link
Nah. I decided to take a break some years back because of personal reasons (stress, anxiety, etcetera) and felt like I didn't really fit. It's not scorn (definitely not on an Ott-type caliber; this is not possible). More that I got fed up with the shit I was getting into, a lot of it my fault.
I can now. Registration took a couple hours. Not sure why I picked a late-period Sun Ra LP for my username other than that I like the record, but w/e
― lanquidity, Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:58 (ten years ago) link
(tho I'm not interested in posting about gripe stuff for the most part, just yakkin' about music, figuring stuff out, the usual)
― lanquidity, Thursday, 6 March 2014 22:59 (ten years ago) link
welcome back!
― Scooby Doom (۩), Thursday, 6 March 2014 23:03 (ten years ago) link
welcome back, sir.
― EZ Snappin, Thursday, 6 March 2014 23:03 (ten years ago) link
yo is it true that lanquidity got sonned in a cheese beef with Ott
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 6 March 2014 23:05 (ten years ago) link
hi n8
― gimme the lute (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 6 March 2014 23:05 (ten years ago) link
hey dude, i'm not even involved in this debate, sorry for harassing you but welcome!
― JoeStork, Thursday, 6 March 2014 23:06 (ten years ago) link
This has made the whole ordeal worth it
― lanquidity, Thursday, 6 March 2014 23:15 (ten years ago) link
serious use of "stakeholder" re: message board citation beef is amazingly classic.
― call all destroyer, Friday, 7 March 2014 01:08 (ten years ago) link
haha otm
― mookieproof, Friday, 7 March 2014 01:23 (ten years ago) link
to call back to earlier in the thread, now at least i know his i.t. job is real
― call all destroyer, Friday, 7 March 2014 01:25 (ten years ago) link
welcome back nate, however briefly
― PSY talks The Nut Job (forksclovetofu), Friday, 7 March 2014 03:03 (ten years ago) link
lot of posts about an inconsequential pop music opinion-haver, i see, gj ilx
― k3vin k., Friday, 7 March 2014 03:06 (ten years ago) link
^^^shit-stirrer sad that he missed the prime beef
― mookieproof, Friday, 7 March 2014 03:19 (ten years ago) link
i barely see k3v on ilx now he's sticking to his promise not to troll the race thread
― you are clinically deaf and should sell you iPod (stevie), Friday, 7 March 2014 07:24 (ten years ago) link
CAD OTMx2
― Charles, hatless (sic), Friday, 7 March 2014 13:49 (ten years ago) link
also poor nate getting dragged back in here :(
― Charles, hatless (sic), Friday, 7 March 2014 13:50 (ten years ago) link
Whatever the rights and wrongs of any individual case, Ott always appears so obnoxious that if he were kidnapped by Somali pirates I'd feel bad for the pirates.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Friday, 7 March 2014 14:08 (ten years ago) link
"You guys hijhack ships for money? You should get telemarketing jobs and do piracy on your free time for the love of it!"
― I got the glares, the mutterings, the snarls (President Keyes), Friday, 7 March 2014 14:10 (ten years ago) link
it's so funny/sad to see guys mourn the aspiration towards principles and ethics in '80s/'90s indie by demanding everyone engage ethically with '80s/'90s indie sounds.
― da croupier, Friday, 7 March 2014 15:13 (ten years ago) link
work for haliburton, who gives a fuck, UNLESS YOU HAVE A FUZZBOX THEN NO
― da croupier, Friday, 7 March 2014 15:14 (ten years ago) link
hmmm
https://twitter.com/wewenthenfap
― goole, Friday, 7 March 2014 15:28 (ten years ago) link
ilx up and spontaneously twittermorphized. machine sentience!
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 7 March 2014 15:31 (ten years ago) link
New registrant Twin Stars of Pence should frequent the base ball board.
― Andy K, Friday, 7 March 2014 15:56 (ten years ago) link
that is a really awful concept twitter, even by concept twitter standards
― he always came across as a great guy in Kerrang! in the 90s (some dude), Friday, 7 March 2014 16:12 (ten years ago) link
fuck yes
https://medium.com/shallow-rewards/59c631acbb48?curator=MediaREDEF
― famous instagram God (waterface), Friday, 9 May 2014 19:35 (nine years ago) link
I found that article utterly unreadable
― Doritos Loco Parentis (Hurting 2), Friday, 9 May 2014 19:47 (nine years ago) link
straight gibberish
― adam, Friday, 9 May 2014 19:50 (nine years ago) link
isn't it always
― afriendlypioneer, Friday, 9 May 2014 19:52 (nine years ago) link
The ultimate problem for Apple, Beats and any other media distributor is that people want to experience art for themselves. These marketers speak in terms of data, simplification, and “music discovery,” an asinine formalization of “turning on the radio.” It’s not about discovery, the “user experience,” or their “trust” in your brand: it’s about finding a way we can arrive at music, on our own terms, free of the hype, advertisements, PR chicanery, and editorial bias you’re offering. We’re not paying you to tell us what to like: we’re paying you to provide us an easy platform through which to navigate music.
Shut up, and take our money.
― famous instagram God (waterface), Friday, 9 May 2014 19:52 (nine years ago) link
[guy I've never heard of and have no reason to care about]’s CV reads like [incomprehensible reference to old-ass shitty movie], and [disclaimer that just leaves me more baffled. Plucked from the back room of [???] by [namedrop of some other dude I have never heard of and don't give a shit about] in [21 fucking years ago asshole, some of your readers are that age], Rogers lived out the decade as a hybrid digital hipster [what the fuck does that mean?], parlaying his double-threat reputation as a web designer and music industry insider into a lucrative if fruitless position at Yahoo! in the early 2000s [wanks, frustratingly unable to cum]. Honing an innate talent for concept-evangelism [motherfucker what?], Rogers absorbed the slick, bulletproof jargon [come again?] of his peers in digital marketing, and set out on his own, forming [Circle Jerx, Inc., now defunct] in 2007.
― Doritos Loco Parentis (Hurting 2), Friday, 9 May 2014 20:13 (nine years ago) link
Killer lede graf brah. Tell me more.
all that linguistic detritus is what makes it such a special, special article.
― Daniel, Esq 2, Friday, 9 May 2014 20:17 (nine years ago) link
he wrote like 11 paragraphs of backstory so he could arrive at one point about how he doesn't like the beats music app that much
― call all destroyer, Friday, 9 May 2014 20:24 (nine years ago) link
And it's 11 paragraphs of confusing music industry inside baseball to arrive at the point that these music industry types should get out of the way and let me hear the music, man.
― Doritos Loco Parentis (Hurting 2), Friday, 9 May 2014 20:26 (nine years ago) link
word
― Bo Diddley Is A Threadkiller (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 9 May 2014 20:27 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0
― Bo Diddley Is A Threadkiller (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 9 May 2014 20:28 (nine years ago) link
this is why I only read the sub-header
― chillin' on an "awesome pretzel" hoagie (DJP), Friday, 9 May 2014 20:31 (nine years ago) link
the sub-header kind of misses the fact that beats had like a billion dollars in revenue last year. ty for your business insight chris ott of pitchfork media.
― Doritos Loco Parentis (Hurting 2), Friday, 9 May 2014 20:37 (nine years ago) link
even with that omission, I've only spent about a second on interpreting Ott today so I feel like I'm coming out ahead of others on this thread
― chillin' on an "awesome pretzel" hoagie (DJP), Friday, 9 May 2014 20:39 (nine years ago) link
sigh, otm
― Doritos Loco Parentis (Hurting 2), Friday, 9 May 2014 20:40 (nine years ago) link
at least we got some cleese
― famous instagram God (waterface), Friday, 9 May 2014 20:41 (nine years ago) link
sorry everyone
*sulks in the corber*
― famous instagram God (waterface), Friday, 9 May 2014 20:42 (nine years ago) link
This mentality permeates Beats Music, a re-badged relaunch of MOG Music, which Beats purchased for $14 million in 2012.
wasn't MOG what Insider1 became? If so, I think technically Beats owns some stuff I wrote for Insider1 when it was a zero-ads for-love-only operation. Please send my billion dollars c/o Aerosmith
― Now I Am Become Dracula (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 9 May 2014 21:05 (nine years ago) link
send u some bennies
― the glimmer man (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 9 May 2014 21:09 (nine years ago) link
lower back surgery asap plz
― Now I Am Become Dracula (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 9 May 2014 21:11 (nine years ago) link
I thought Beats was just something Dre called his line of headphones, had no idea it was anything else, much less anything else worth money
― famous instagram dog (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 May 2014 21:11 (nine years ago) link
i mean beats by dre is worth money.
those headphones are a key cultural artifact of this decade.
i never heard of the other thing either. i listen to all my music on c80s and youtube and also if i want to hear something that's not on youtube i'll just sing it to myself
― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Friday, 9 May 2014 21:58 (nine years ago) link
its fun because then you can make up words
did Ott apply to make playlists for beats and get rejected? Half the ones it's recommended to me lately we're create by h4rvell
― a strange man (mh), Friday, 9 May 2014 22:31 (nine years ago) link
beats by j
― socki (s1ocki), Friday, 9 May 2014 22:40 (nine years ago) link
Maybe in seconds spent thinking you win, DJP, but in brevity of posting I believe I have the upper hand.
― Bo Diddley Is A Threadkiller (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 May 2014 02:58 (nine years ago) link
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s1qmsj
― °ㅇ๐ْ ° (gr8080), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:05 (nine years ago) link
so wait, does he like kyary pamyu pamyu or not?
― sitting on a claud all day gotta make your butt numb (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:09 (nine years ago) link
wow
― how's life, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:09 (nine years ago) link
Happy Independence Day, fuckers.
― nitro-burning funny car (Moodles), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:11 (nine years ago) link
I'm eagerly looking forward to TS: Chris Ott vs. Anthony Fantano
― nitro-burning funny car (Moodles), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:12 (nine years ago) link
Lots of people say they don't read Pitchfork. They do.
busted
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:23 (nine years ago) link
that's on some 'i can't believe you've never seen the wire' shit.
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:29 (nine years ago) link
"I never go to the P4K main page" is the new "I don't even own a TV"
― relentlessly pecking at peace (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:31 (nine years ago) link
― marcos, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:33 (nine years ago) link
best new music more like best new bullshit
― °ㅇ๐ْ ° (gr8080), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:34 (nine years ago) link
I know that "tl;dr" is annoying these days but you guys would make an exception if I used it for this, right
― Herbie Handcock (Murgatroid), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:34 (nine years ago) link
Lots of people say they don't read Chris Ott's Needle Drop rant. They do.
― ςὖτιe (some dude), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:38 (nine years ago) link
this thing is like a year old, why
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:44 (nine years ago) link
tbh i hadn't even heard of No Fanta until like a few months ago so i'm guessing this thing just pops back up as he becomes more well known
― ςὖτιe (some dude), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:46 (nine years ago) link
αυтнєηтι¢ ρяινιℓєgє @shallowrewards · 17h
The Internet is real. Break the cycle.
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:48 (nine years ago) link
Surprised that nobody has a summarisation startup called tldr.com
― popchips: the next snapple? (seandalai), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 16:58 (nine years ago) link
"Any freelancers reading this are probably drooling right now, and they should be."
...unless they're female, in which case doing a youtube vlog with your face and voice and home decor attached is more likely to result in death threats and/or rape threats and/or stalking threats and/or actual stalking?
― katherine, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:21 (nine years ago) link
I appreciate how Ott uses examples from everyday life to ground his high-flying cultural criticism in terms we can all understand.
"Fantano went to SCSU and is originally from Prospect, which is sort of the Connecticut equivalent of being from Farmingdale and watching fuckheads from Oyster Bay cut through your town in color-coordinated 458s whenever the LIE goes harsh realm."
― brio, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:26 (nine years ago) link
(which isn't hypothetical at all. I follow a couple popular youtube partners -- no idea how much money they actually make, but they're close to the upper limit of success in their niche -- and several have said they are reluctant to have female guests because literally every time they've invited a female guest on she has been stalked.)
― katherine, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:27 (nine years ago) link
xp: brio, I had to google almost all of that sentence.
― how's life, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:30 (nine years ago) link
I know what Connecticut and fuckheads are. The rest is lost on me. Does he maybe put all his writing through an online translator into Bulgarian and back into English?
― brio, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:40 (nine years ago) link
Let me explain it for you: Being from Town A is the equivalent of being from Town B and watching people drive through your town
makes totally sense
― relentlessly pecking at peace (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:43 (nine years ago) link
I did get that much as well, sorry for exagerating
― brio, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:48 (nine years ago) link
actual lol
― dude (Lamp), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:52 (nine years ago) link
So is being from Prospect but attending SCSU the equivalent of watching fuckheads from Oyster Bay cut through your town in color-coordinated 458s whenever the LIE goes harsh realm? Or is it simply just being from Prospect that is the equivalent?
― how's life, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:54 (nine years ago) link
xpost I'm joking too--the sentence doesn't actually make sense
― relentlessly pecking at peace (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:55 (nine years ago) link
it's like 'he attended this school and is originally from this somewhat nearby town, which is like watching people drive through your town to avoid traffic jams.'
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 17:55 (nine years ago) link
when Ott blogs, he creates his own reality. And while we’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — he’ll blog again, creating other new realities, which we can study too, and that’s how things will sort out.
― relentlessly pecking at peace (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 18:00 (nine years ago) link
haha
― goole, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 18:01 (nine years ago) link
― dude (Lamp), Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:52 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
my mom has been denying that she has a problem....i went through her browser history and there it was...the url for the stream of the new hercules and love affair ;_;
― dollar rave club (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 18:01 (nine years ago) link
You read it when someone reblogs or retweets them; you follow “attribution” back-links to understand why every other site on the Internet is shitting out second-stage coverage of Something Pitchfork Did.
The last thing I read on Pitchfork was their update of the Flaming Lips saga...which was shat-out second-stage coverage of Something Rolling Stone Did.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 18:05 (nine years ago) link
Anthony can probably even afford his own health care plan.
bennies
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 18:11 (nine years ago) link
the Chevy Cruze is actually not a bad car, terrible name but a decent ride tbh
― Now I Am Become Dracula (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 19:15 (nine years ago) link
omg ums
― hella good Jewish homies (DJP), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 19:31 (nine years ago) link
it is GM's top selling vehicle after all
― the glimmer man (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 19:33 (nine years ago) link
shallow-rewards:mbmelodies:The Needle Drop Reviews Kyary Pamyu PamyuSo this is a very conflicting review for me personally. First, the negative…
So this is a very conflicting review for me personally. First, the negative…
lmao
― original bgm, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 21:07 (nine years ago) link
http://images.dazedcdn.com/1000x800/dd/1070/3/1073071.JPG
― original bgm, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 21:08 (nine years ago) link
Never got to the positive
― nitro-burning funny car (Moodles), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 21:36 (nine years ago) link
i started writing a little bit for pfork and guess what, lots of people *don't even know what pitchfork is*. and lots of people know what it is *but don't care*.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 21:40 (nine years ago) link
that was actually mbmelodies assessing needle dropbro's faulty ideas about j-pop
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 23:07 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHs81dv0y9s
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 20 May 2014 23:51 (nine years ago) link
A lot of people say they don't read Tyler's essays about Pavement bootlegs. They do.
― dollar rave club (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 00:39 (nine years ago) link
A lot of people say they don't read my stuff. They do.
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 14:12 (nine years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/h2VO2Kz.jpg
― 龜, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 14:18 (nine years ago) link
http://m.memegen.com/y0xdkf.jpg
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Wednesday, 21 May 2014 14:35 (nine years ago) link
i can't believe how long this guys bluster has gone on. keep negatively sub-tweeting musicians into your 40s you brave soul. you're really saving music
― hackshaw, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 19:54 (nine years ago) link
whenever i read about this dude and his "ideas" i think his social circle must be incredibly narrow and circumscribed because he writes about stuff in the "rock" world with no perspective or sense of proportion whatsoever. as if he had no idea that there were other taste groups, other realms of human experience.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 20:00 (nine years ago) link
more narrow than that, the "indie rock" world
it's like his world is coextensive with the walls of a college radio station
― I dunno. (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 20:03 (nine years ago) link
..and even more narrow than that, the "indie rock" world of his past
his views are completely archaic at this point
― hackshaw, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 20:11 (nine years ago) link
i sort of still stand behind my theory that he's behind a certain widely hated ilx poster/troll/potential sock whom i think we all know, though some v solid holes were poked it it elsewhere
in any case, yeah, his schtick is utterly pathetic, and aside from a small cult audience of TROO BELIEVERZ all his reads/video views/twitter TL scrolls are probably of the "lol i can't believe this dude" variety. its gamergate logic with less sexism (or at least less violent sexism), applied to music and music writing.
yeah chris, everyone's a sellout, p4k has corporate sponsorship (OMG NOOOO HOW COULD THAT HAPPEN *clutches pearls*) and some obscure-ass vaguely postpunk or noise or whateverthefuck bands you saw in allston or NYC when you were in your 20s are the only real musicians. real brave of you to point that out. finally, it's hilarious to think that he honestly thinks p4k cares as much about him as he does about them.
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 20:11 (nine years ago) link
tbh it seems like a "twlight zone" premise: some revenant from my college radio days returns 20 years later still complaining about the same shit in the same terms, referencing the same bands, wearing the same t-shirts. it's unsettling and almost kind of uncanny.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 20:14 (nine years ago) link
how many new artists does he even take on? to my understanding he specifically targets a lot of these vaguely 90's revisionist college rock bands (Speedy Ortiz) that only a scant few people give a shit about anyway.
i guess it's his chance to have a "moment" in the scene that neglected him. whatever helps you sleep at night bud
― hackshaw, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 20:26 (nine years ago) link
dude's got bennies he can get treated for sleep apnea if he wants
― i did it all for the 'nuki (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 20:30 (nine years ago) link
yeah man an apnea sleep mask isn't even that expensive with decent insurance
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 21:17 (nine years ago) link
that might be an actual problem of his tho
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 21:18 (nine years ago) link
he's currently harrassing craig jenkins (forgive me for not knowing his poster name if indeed he is on ILX, i'm still a relative n00b) saying he "doesn't get to decide" when he gets dragged into ott going truth to power once again on yet another p4k writer (hard to feel sympathy when it's cohen tho)
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 21:25 (nine years ago) link
he forgot take his heart attack pills
― hackshaw, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 21:39 (nine years ago) link
he forgot to take his heart attack pills*
oof
tbh and this can be hard bc it's really really fun to make fun of ott but i'm pretty sure this thread is the only place where anyone actually gives a steady shit about him and if we close it he might just dissolve into dust
― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 22:49 (nine years ago) link
well, that and his cloud of bizarro twitter followers i guess. you have a point. but it is REALLY fun...
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 23:05 (nine years ago) link
must be cool to be an IT tech bro firing off hostile tweets all day about actual creative people who aren't doing anything particularly wrong. he has a lot of bennies in life
take away the bennies and this man crumbles
― hackshaw, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 23:36 (nine years ago) link
b-b-b-bennies! bennies and the otts! [someone's probably made that joke already]
― tylerw, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 23:39 (nine years ago) link
there's a universe where using a public enemy review that happened to run the day of the darren wilson non-indictment as an opportunity to dry-rub your ian cohen beef is less "tone-deaf" than someone calling said review "well-timed," but I'm not sure where it is. probably in hell
― katherine, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 23:40 (nine years ago) link
otm it is def in some corner of hell
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 23:46 (nine years ago) link
i'll give him the benefit of the doubt that having a mid-life crisis can be sorta painful. it might be time to let the dream of the 90's go, ott. there's more important things
― hackshaw, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 23:50 (nine years ago) link
Yeah! Fuck old people. They don't understand us kids!!!!
― kornrulez6969, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 23:52 (nine years ago) link
the dream of the 90s is alive in ottland
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 23:53 (nine years ago) link
i guess i don't see ott's current persona as being one bit different than 10 yrs ago
― i did it all for the 'nuki (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 25 November 2014 23:53 (nine years ago) link
meet the new ott, same as the old ott
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 01:07 (nine years ago) link
a few months ago he temporarily deleted his twitter and permanently deleted his videos and a FAN re-uploaded a bunch of them to youtube
― Murghan Troidor (some dude), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 01:08 (nine years ago) link
sorry that was me
― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 01:50 (nine years ago) link
no one understands our love
Gamergate comparison otm, although: this bag of trash typed good typing about female musicians, once upon a time
― mango unchained (fgti), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 01:58 (nine years ago) link
I mean, in the "reminiscent of Cat Power" heyday of the early 2000s Ott was pretty great in how he covered this or that.
― mango unchained (fgti), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 02:00 (nine years ago) link
G'bye, tho, tbh
― mango unchained (fgti), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 02:01 (nine years ago) link
the ironic thing is his largely /mu/ fan base overlaps significantly with gaters so he is constantly fielding questions from them about how he HAS IT ALL WRONG (being against)
― katherine, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 02:20 (nine years ago) link
Didn't know what to do when he retweeted a post of mine last week so I played Malkmus.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 02:23 (nine years ago) link
ILX should hypothetically love the Ott: Dude is an A+ troll, hates corny indie fuxxors, his twitter feed is like this popular thread a lot of the time.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 03:32 (nine years ago) link
OK, dude is a little hung up on pitchfork minutae, but we're NEVER like that [*links to ILX posts about "why don't they show the individual writers lists"]
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 03:33 (nine years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/zi7hd.gif
― ✓ out this insane nakh yall (gr8080), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 03:35 (nine years ago) link
will nvr 4get the day whiney held the mirror up to us all..............and we saw the mosnter within
― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 03:42 (nine years ago) link
U mean we saw the monster and ott was us
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 03:44 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4uzGXwwUG4
― hackshaw, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 03:49 (nine years ago) link
whiney I think you know full well the reasons you listed (re: how he's similar to ILX) are not the real reasons why he gets lampooned and hated on. come on.
OMG did he offer you some bennies have you been bought YOU SELLOUT
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 04:10 (nine years ago) link
the last time Ott posted here he made a real Tanuki of himself
― Murghan Troidor (some dude), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 04:21 (nine years ago) link
i thought this guy deleted his whole internet presence, why couldn't it stay deleted.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 05:12 (nine years ago) link
the real reasons why he gets lampooned and hated on
name your reasons why he is so bad & hated
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 06:07 (nine years ago) link
What the world needs nowIs A+ trolls
― mango unchained (fgti), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 08:49 (nine years ago) link
I started paying less attention to Ott when he started spouting unforgivable classist and queerphobic bullshit on another message board, and stopped paying attention entirely when he started going toe-to-toe with whoever and whatever on Twitter with the same ""rhetoric"". This was a while ago so my points of reference are cold. Has he changed or does he still get drunk and tilt-at-windmills and bully girls and queers online? But then I have no taste for "A+ trolls"
― mango unchained (fgti), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 09:10 (nine years ago) link
Whine ott?
― why do I hate that thing (excluding imago, marcos) (wins), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 10:04 (nine years ago) link
Otta give em a chance
― $0.00 Butter sauce only. No marinara. (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 10:30 (nine years ago) link
"the ultimate fuckin bro shit stoner lame-ass jam band battle of the bands music smith fucking stratocaster velvet fucking top hat fucking scarf-wearing paisley bullshit ever"
- an actual quote from chris ott in a shallow rewards video
― j. winters (josh), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 10:32 (nine years ago) link
various xposts to brad - I've read almost all of this thread, and the offending interview/video, and gone through a handful of the older videos...are you seriously asking me to list those things like jfc come on
but ok sure: vaguely sexist/creepy statements about women who write about music, his bullshit truth to power aesthetic, obsession with a culture that doesn't exist and prob never did, numerous ad hominem attacks on people unrelated to their opinions, etc etc etc was this some sort of test? fucks sake.
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 11:45 (nine years ago) link
vaguely is an understatement like a huge one actually
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 11:46 (nine years ago) link
wasn't brad just joking
― Tim F, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 11:47 (nine years ago) link
Dave Matthews Band : Name Your Reasons Why They Are So Bad & Hated.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 11:48 (nine years ago) link
welp, there I go not knowing an ILX in joke. egg, meet face. I'm newish here.
my apologies.
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 11:50 (nine years ago) link
haha I had assumed you were an oldtime poster with a new name and was trying to work out who wasn't accounted for.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 11:52 (nine years ago) link
nah, I'm not a sock. (I learned most of the terminology quick but def not everything or would've known brad's statement as a joke)
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 11:55 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEzmzpoaKek
― Junior Dadaismus (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 12:21 (nine years ago) link
"They’re angry because I’m calling them out on the questions that they refuse to ask. They’re complicit in trying to make money out of talking about fucking pop music"
― Raccoon Tanuki, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 12:52 (nine years ago) link
the call is coming from inside the house
― you fuck one chud... (stevie), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 13:10 (nine years ago) link
People making money from popular things---does anyone else know about this?
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 14:03 (nine years ago) link
lol that budweiser video is so good
― ✓ out this insane nakh yall (gr8080), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 14:17 (nine years ago) link
I started paying less attention to Ott when he started spouting unforgivable classist and queerphobic bullshit on another message board, and stopped paying attention entirely when he started going toe-to-toe with whoever and whatever on Twitter with the same ""rhetoric"".
feels like a huge bunch of the young male critic contingent from a few years back are/were really into this Critic-As-Pretend-Bully thing, like they're gonna paste you one if you betray some imagined cause. confidentially though I don't think any of these guys are really very good at fighting
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 14:28 (nine years ago) link
people with good dental plans more willing to take a punch in the mouth
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 14:51 (nine years ago) link
glad he blew the lid off budgate. beer companies giving away beer to college kids and money to rock bands... who knew?
― Brio2, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 15:23 (nine years ago) link
he truly is tireless in his vigilance
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 15:37 (nine years ago) link
http://dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2008/m06/x139174251930799715_8.jpg
― Junior Dadaismus (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 15:49 (nine years ago) link
Waiting for him to call out Pamplemoose, if he hasn't already, at which ILX will finally implode.
― Junior Dadaismus (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 16:57 (nine years ago) link
It's about ethics in rocking.
― wk, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 17:02 (nine years ago) link
sorry for otty rocking
― celfie tucker 48 (s.clover), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 17:13 (nine years ago) link
Guess who's coming to dinner?
― Junior Dadaismus (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 17:15 (nine years ago) link
otty dreadlock
Maybe should have said: Guess who's coming to YouTube?
― Junior Dadaismus (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 17:21 (nine years ago) link
if you play shoegaze around The Ott, he becomes a big preeening softie.
― hackshaw, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 20:40 (nine years ago) link
but only slowdive or catherine wheel or moose or ride B-sides - none of that my bloody valentine crap nothing that any urban-outfitters-patronizing millennial might have heard of, amirite???? because INTEGRITY and REALNESS and STICK IT TO DA MAN
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:11 (nine years ago) link
no, IIRC he loves that stuff too
― the farakhan of gg (DJP), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:14 (nine years ago) link
It's about ethics in rocking.― wk, Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:02 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― wk, Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:02 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:15 (nine years ago) link
it's one of the only things he loves and will be totally sincere about it. also The Cure. but anything else will be reduced to rich kid posturing accordingly
― hackshaw, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:17 (nine years ago) link
huh. interesting. it sure can be beautiful sometimes & it involves an aesthetic that i imagine is attractive to a purity/integrity/DIY obsessed shitbiscuit like him
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:22 (nine years ago) link
his goth thing was kinda good
― i did it all for the 'nuki (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:26 (nine years ago) link
Sloth, dude, are you down with Moose?
― Evan, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:39 (nine years ago) link
Moose are among the purest artists in history. those guys were THE ETHIC and THE LIGHT
― hackshaw, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:44 (nine years ago) link
havent listened to be quite honest, i knew they went under the obscure column of shoegaze bands as opposed to MBV and ride tho
i might do a deep dive on the genre, i have quite a bit of vacation time coming up
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:45 (nine years ago) link
if you've heard mbv you will go to your grave no poorer if you just stop there
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:48 (nine years ago) link
do not listen to Ray Tabano, when it comes to shoegaze-type music he is totally insane
― the farakhan of gg (DJP), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:58 (nine years ago) link
Ride is just as good as mbv
― i did it all for the 'nuki (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:49 (nine years ago) link
You're the one for me, Otty.
― Junior Dadaismus (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 November 2014 01:29 (nine years ago) link
Moose are one of the reasons i found this board and here i still am around seven years and 10,000 posts later. they only started as a shoegaze band with their first three EP's (aka Sonny & Sam EP). by the time their first album ...XYZ come out they were completely different band. they actually got better by mellowing out with "Honey Bee" and Live A Little, Love A Lot both being outstanding albums.
― 2010, 2012 and 2014 World Series Champions San Francisco Giants (Bee OK), Thursday, 27 November 2014 02:16 (nine years ago) link
bee I will give them a shot (btw I'm sorry about panda we will treat him well in boston)
― hanley ramirez ordering a pizza (slothroprhymes), Thursday, 27 November 2014 02:47 (nine years ago) link
Yeah ...XYZ is my favorite. One of my favorite records in the genre!
― Evan, Thursday, 27 November 2014 04:19 (nine years ago) link
wish i'd been here 13 hours ago to post "your bennies, sir"
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 27 November 2014 05:44 (nine years ago) link
all shoegaze fans unfamiliar with vaadat charigim's album from last year need to remedy that immediately
― ✓ out this insane nakh yall (gr8080), Thursday, 27 November 2014 19:52 (nine years ago) link
just ascending more into complete loserdom
https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/542365704163708928
― hackshaw, Tuesday, 9 December 2014 23:28 (nine years ago) link
which band/artist is he alluding to?
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Tuesday, 9 December 2014 23:33 (nine years ago) link
dude is the REAL pitchfork reviews reviews
― da croupier, Tuesday, 9 December 2014 23:43 (nine years ago) link
How is getting hit by a car or your mom getting cancer a failure?
― you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 00:03 (nine years ago) link
He's referring to this article, I believe: http://noisey.vice.com/blog/andrew-rinehart-you-cant-break-my-heart-pretty-people-make-graves-music-video-premiere
But let's be honest. There's a thin line between many ILX users and @shallowrewards dude
― ∞, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 00:09 (nine years ago) link
its really not that thin
― deej loaf (D-40), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 00:13 (nine years ago) link
it's a thin line between lol and hate
― da croupier, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 00:17 (nine years ago) link
http://pitchfork.com/features/rising/9528-tobias-jesso-jr/
― hackshaw, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 00:18 (nine years ago) link
if we're lucky one of chris's sock will grace us with its presence
― ∞, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 00:19 (nine years ago) link
socks*
― hackshaw, Tuesday, December 9, 2014 7:18 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
what a failure. a real shoegaze man would've stood there as the car blew into pieces around him Rabbit In Your Headlights-style.
― some dude, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 00:26 (nine years ago) link
two-month-old zings
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 00:29 (nine years ago) link
between his ambitious writing projects and twitter celebrity status, the man is just playing catch up
― ∞, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 00:46 (nine years ago) link
all the from the comfort of a Duxbury IT cubicle. sometimes there is a man...
― hackshaw, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 00:57 (nine years ago) link
wonder if this dude really gets how intense it is to one's life & art when a person's mother gets cancer
wott an asshole
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 01:45 (nine years ago) link
https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/542498134257967104
― goole, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 02:25 (nine years ago) link
lmao what a maroon
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 02:30 (nine years ago) link
Will they look back with appreciation and say, "Thank God for that Ott guy in 2014 who headed off that loss of freedom, who kept us now 100 years later free, who kept our genre from selling out"?
And if we failed, they probably won't get to read the tweets at all because they spoke of indie rock, and they won't be allowed to talk of that or read of it.
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 02:35 (nine years ago) link
i mean, the narrative that the pitchfork piece is putting out is basically "dude was an aspiring money-hungry L.A. session dude who failed, and now, two years later, wants to be indie rock I guess"
Like idgaf about this guy, but can you blame ott for not seeing this as the sympathetic story of rags-to-RSSches it's supposed to be, idk?
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 02:47 (nine years ago) link
RSSches
smh
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 02:48 (nine years ago) link
i dunno, what kind of background does he need to be a real indie-rocker?
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 02:50 (nine years ago) link
probably grad school
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 02:54 (nine years ago) link
NPR internship
― Free Me's Electric Trumpet (Moodles), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 03:02 (nine years ago) link
one floor tom
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 03:03 (nine years ago) link
he would've tried to cover his tracks if he wanted to be a REAL INDIE ROCKER. the dude is putting himself out there. that doesn't warrant comments about his dead mom as sort of ponzi scheme for success
― hackshaw, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 03:04 (nine years ago) link
https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/542498134257967104 --goole
man he really is that fucking naive that he's this truth warrior
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 03:17 (nine years ago) link
*thinking that he's
Like I'm sure whoever that interview is with is totally crappy but like I dunno dude's mom died of cancer so lay off
― you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 03:41 (nine years ago) link
Like I'm sure whoever that interview is with is totally crappy but like I dunno dude's mom died of cancer so lay off --you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown)
exactly, and ott wouldn't even bother to mock this dude if he hadn't been sitting angrily in front his comp looking at p4k for hours, probably drinking, hitting refresh refresh refresh, looking for something, anything to hate
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 03:45 (nine years ago) link
always look forward to Whiney's handwavey quasi-defences of this guy every time someone notices him being a sociopathic piece of shit
― cornelius pardew (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 09:06 (nine years ago) link
@shallowrewards @MattHelgeson music's last honest soldier. his weapons? caps lock and an inexorable will to PWN two-month-old pop profiles
― Re-Make/Re-Model, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 09:34 (nine years ago) link
Ott's thinking is in keeping with the Gamergate "righteous troll" approach - any amount of misanthropy, bullying and general obnoxiousness is valid if you believe yourself a warrior for a noble cause.
― Re-Make/Re-Model, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 12:12 (nine years ago) link
Ott's thinking is in keeping with the Gamergate "righteous troll" approach - any amount of misanthropy, bullying and general obnoxiousness is valid if you believe yourself a warrior for a noble cause. --Re-Make/Re-Model
had a bit of rum last night and dropped a tiny bit of sarcasm on him via twitter. he tried to zing me back by saying "nice fucking hair, food truck," then asserted I was one of his "disgruntled fan" twitter followers (I wasn't, oddly he followed me after I ripped him subtly on a previous occasion that could've only been read as a serious compliment if you're an idiot)
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 12:56 (nine years ago) link
I honestly think he doesn't know or understand (or want to believe) that the people who are mocking him aren't doing so cause their brains are breaking due to his message, but because his message is naive bullshit expressed in a shitty hateful manner
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 13:07 (nine years ago) link
sloth if you could post the entire rum fueled exchange that would be awesome.
― Evan, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 14:42 (nine years ago) link
first i'm gonna have to see evidence that sloth is not a food truck
― you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:03 (nine years ago) link
The thing is that at a certain time of night Chris sees everyone as a food truck or a hamburger or a delicious cooked turkey.
― Evan, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:07 (nine years ago) link
xp irl lols at that
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:23 (nine years ago) link
man if i was a sentient food truck that could type that'd be kinda dope, honestly
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:24 (nine years ago) link
i blocked him bc i didn't feel like having it go on for much longer but i'm sure y'all can see his replies even tho they dont show up for mehttps://twitter.com/liamchgreen/status/542521014736125952
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:27 (nine years ago) link
― cornelius pardew (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:06 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I mean, I just think he's a funny internet personality and it's really befuddling watching a bunch of people who post all day to a zing-centric, belly-button-gazing, nit-picky, narc-of-small-diff music, corny-indie-fuxx-hating message board clown a guy for "caring" and being a meanie to indie rock personalities.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:27 (nine years ago) link
also i said this initially before he even replied to me, stemming from the issue that renewed our interest in ott-trollinghttps://twitter.com/liamchgreen/status/542520243961094145
immature on my part to stoop to his level, obvs, but i was really annoyed, and as stated previously, rum.
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:28 (nine years ago) link
i think ott is a total dick but tbh i am happy he exists, he is hilarious and those videos he used to do are tremendous
― marcos, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:29 (nine years ago) link
sloth, you've really never eaten at a food truck?
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:45 (nine years ago) link
Whiney's right that the pious zingery of an ilxor isn't far removed from a self-righteous twitter troll.
Lol at trying to defend ott by bringing that up though
― da croupier, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:49 (nine years ago) link
― Re-Make/Re-Model, Wednesday, December 10, 2014 7:12 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark
tbf this describes 99% of humans
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:50 (nine years ago) link
xxp lol i havent! i never remember when the supposedly good ones are posted up near my office and they dont really come to the neighborhood in the city where i actually live often
also don't quite understand how that works as a zing about "hipsters" unless he thinks clover represents all food trucks
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:53 (nine years ago) link
LOOK INTO THE MIRROR GUYS
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:53 (nine years ago) link
I am but all I see is a food truck
― Evan, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:55 (nine years ago) link
are we human or are we food truck?
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:57 (nine years ago) link
we are marshall food truck
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 15:59 (nine years ago) link
corny-indie-fuxx-hating
he's a corny indie fuck who hates corny indie fuxx
probably just supporting the "ott is a distorted ilxor" theory here
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:00 (nine years ago) link
xp to myself (the sequel, with a hot soundtrack full of tunes from the most unknown boston DIY bands possible & a bit of shoegaze for nostalgia)
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:00 (nine years ago) link
but when ott goes on his true indie ad-free music journo crusades he overwhelmingly targets women which imo is gross and fuck him
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:01 (nine years ago) link
WHY can you people not ignore this clown? i am sure that no one outside this thread gives a fuck so you are probably the only people keeping him alive
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:02 (nine years ago) link
Yeah I always understood that as the reason ilx gets upset not because he in general carries himself like the ilx strawman
― Evan, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:03 (nine years ago) link
It's just silly to say "hey ilx you give him shit when he's just like one of you" as if ilx isn't happy to give shit to its own when they get ott-ish as well.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:11 (nine years ago) link
also i feel like ilx doesn't care enough to get fired up about corny indie bullshit anymore. i could be way off there but it seems like those battles were fought long ago. though i guess the pitcfork is dumb thread still gets plenty of action. also i've kind of avoid the year end critics poll thread
― marcos, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:14 (nine years ago) link
― lex pretend, Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:02 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
always weird to me to see some crude or just incomprehensible tweet of his have a dozen or so likes and RTs. he has his fans, i guess
― goole, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:15 (nine years ago) link
also i just will always lol @ call all destoyer's instruction to always imagine a loaded gun on the table during ott's monologue videos
― marcos, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:18 (nine years ago) link
though i guess the pitcfork is dumb thread still gets plenty of action.
It has apparently become the "spot the typo and run-on sentence in today's reviews" thread
― Evan, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:19 (nine years ago) link
he has his fans, i guess
And about 10,000 paid-for bots.
https://www.twitteraudit.com/shallowrewards
― Position Position, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:06 (nine years ago) link
huh i didn't know about that site
looks like about 1000 of my 6500 are fake but i'm not super surprised i get a lot of fakey looking accounts replying to me sometimes
― you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:10 (nine years ago) link
My followers are 94% real.
― Humorist (horse) (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:11 (nine years ago) link
yeah idk about "paid for" there. I have 33k fake followers and nobody in my camp paid for that because lol be serious
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:12 (nine years ago) link
but are the bennies real?
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:12 (nine years ago) link
the realest
yeah looking at some co-workers most media ppl w/decent-ish followings are gonna run between 80-95 percent real....
as two somewhat applicable comparisons, jessica hopper is 94 percent real and whiney is 84 percent real....i'm 84 as well, lots of it you can't control obviously who spam accounts' algorhythms decide to follow
but yeah ott's 6% real rating is pretty drastically low to the point where there's gotta be something up
― you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:17 (nine years ago) link
ray how many total do you have?
just under 100k
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:20 (nine years ago) link
well yr still running 75 percent-ish real then....i feel like you hit certain levels and more bots start to attach themselves, i noticed that around 5K...so i'd imagine if you're closing in at 100k there's gonna be more bot activity....
but ott is running 650-ish real and 10K+ fake i don't see why that many bots would randomly decide to attach to it, or at least i don't see any evidence that it happens often
― you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:22 (nine years ago) link
maybe bots just like him. they crave the authenticity they can never achieve
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:29 (nine years ago) link
botts be hott for ott
― sosmix klopp (NickB), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:32 (nine years ago) link
maybe he name-drops brands a lot more than most
― da croupier, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:32 (nine years ago) link
ottbotgate
― Brio2, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:36 (nine years ago) link
I like that answer, still <1000 real followers and 10k fake is pretty weird
OTTOH for him to get caught buying followers would be so rich it's hard for me to imagine him risking it
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:37 (nine years ago) link
for every sensitive nerdlinger who shakes their head when ott at-replys a pitchfork scribe about bacardi for the 80th time, eight bots just see the word Bacardi, and assumes he's on the street team.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:40 (nine years ago) link
OTTOH
― gr8080, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:41 (nine years ago) link
I don't even think you'd need to "buy" followers to corral that number at this point, just (knowingly or unknowingly) get their attention
― da croupier, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:43 (nine years ago) link
can we just turn this thread into a twitteraudit thread, because I'm finding that way more interesting than ott-talk (Ray's Ott puns notwithstanding)
― the farakhan of gg (DJP), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:44 (nine years ago) link
(sorry, nottwithstanding)
maybe he's just really deep undercover blowing the lid off the whole corporate marketing takeover of indie rock and he has to buy bots to fit in, like when Rust Cohle had to do meth in True Detective
― Brio2, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:47 (nine years ago) link
loooollllllllllll
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:49 (nine years ago) link
love from a bot don't startle wry ott
― da croupier, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:50 (nine years ago) link
Doesn't Ott work in IT? Paid or not, he's figured out how to manipulate the system. Either way he's rallying to almost no one.
― Position Position, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:53 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3RjtmOeDhA
― gr8080, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 17:53 (nine years ago) link
There are over 1700 posts in this thread. I wonder how many would be here if you removed all "bennies" references.
― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 18:46 (nine years ago) link
4 or 5
― Evan, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 18:46 (nine years ago) link
Why does the perennial WGW "this is what ILX is" argument follow up with a description of himself and only himself
― fgti, Thursday, 11 December 2014 00:29 (nine years ago) link
Ott-watchers take note he is in the midst of launching into a harrowing first person account of the first time he saw Boogie Nights:
https://twitter.com/shallowrewards
― Badmotorfinger Debate Club (MFB), Thursday, 11 December 2014 00:43 (nine years ago) link
zing-centric,
check
belly-button-gazing,
check, though less than some, who's not guilty on this count
nit-picky,
two checks
narc-of-small-diff music,
check check check
need I say check
think goon tie merits an otm from you here my man
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Thursday, 11 December 2014 00:44 (nine years ago) link
caught up on Ott's twitter feed, he's been on quite a run lately. telling a female writer he's almost ready to file his libel suit against her, defending the Pomplamoose guy's essay, taking great satisfaction in the downfall of Wondering Sound.
― some dude, Monday, 15 December 2014 03:51 (nine years ago) link
ok, i'll bite, why the hell is he threatening a libel suit on twitter
― call all destroyer, Monday, 15 December 2014 04:01 (nine years ago) link
It's that DIY spirit
― Evan, Monday, 15 December 2014 04:07 (nine years ago) link
Ott also started a fight with one of the human cocaine baggies from DIIV, apparently dude's misogyny is bad because he looks old (?)
― cucked by steely dan (Andre Gunder Frank 3000), Monday, 15 December 2014 04:23 (nine years ago) link
ott saying that DIIV's singer is actually 10 years older than they say he is is my fav ott conspiracy
― J0rdan S., Monday, 15 December 2014 05:15 (nine years ago) link
threatening someone during the holidays, over twitter, publicly, that "you're about to have really, really bad new year" is slimy as fuck
― katherine, Monday, 15 December 2014 05:17 (nine years ago) link
not that there's a great time to do this, mind you (even if it's just a libel suit, which anyone who knows the remotest amount of media law knows is pretty toothless), but still
― katherine, Monday, 15 December 2014 05:20 (nine years ago) link
all his recent DIIV tweets are 9.0 classics
― J0rdan S., Monday, 15 December 2014 05:25 (nine years ago) link
i can't believe this thread is 11 years old.
i heard a long-ass time ago that grimes/james bought ott a bunch of fake followers as a joke. true or false, i still remember his count exploding overnight
― soyrev, Monday, 15 December 2014 12:52 (nine years ago) link
Lmao can you do that??
I'm gonna do that right now
― 龜, Monday, 15 December 2014 12:52 (nine years ago) link
*Dips into my bennies and extracts $20 which I use to buy Ott 10,000 fake twitter followers*
― 龜, Monday, 15 December 2014 12:53 (nine years ago) link
i can't believe this thread is 11 years old.i heard a long-ass time ago that grimes/james bought ott a bunch of fake followers as a joke. true or false, i still remember his count exploding overnight --soyrev
i heard a long-ass time ago that grimes/james bought ott a bunch of fake followers as a joke. true or false, i still remember his count exploding overnight --soyrev
quite a bit of discussion of ott's follow count being 94 percent fake upthread, as determined via twitteraudit, so yea that combined with this tidbit adds up
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Monday, 15 December 2014 13:10 (nine years ago) link
yeah i meant to be replying to that, hah sorry :B
― soyrev, Monday, 15 December 2014 13:24 (nine years ago) link
also, why is he threatening lindsay zoladz with a label suit? cld not find any explanation lol
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Monday, 15 December 2014 13:25 (nine years ago) link
haha wow. is he friendly w/ Grimes or is she on his enemies list? Murgatroid pointed out to me recently that Ott refers to his daughter as "Baby Grimes" repeatedly in tweets which just seems so odd and creepy.
― some dude, Monday, 15 December 2014 13:28 (nine years ago) link
Hahah that is so http://www.theonion.com/articles/cool-dad-raising-daughter-on-media-that-will-put-h,26132/
― 龜, Monday, 15 December 2014 13:31 (nine years ago) link
SD I would guess that she's too hyped by pitchfork to not(t) be on his enemies list.
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Monday, 15 December 2014 13:35 (nine years ago) link
Wait what did the DIIV dude do? I can't keep up
― you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 15 December 2014 13:47 (nine years ago) link
Wait what did the DIIV dude do? I can't keep up --you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown)
some member of the band (not heroin-casualty zach cole himself) went on a tear of misogynist and sexist bullshit via 4chan
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Monday, 15 December 2014 13:50 (nine years ago) link
correction to above redundancy: misogynist and racist (and anti-Semitic! and homophobic) bullshit
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Monday, 15 December 2014 13:53 (nine years ago) link
grimes has tweeted anti pitchfork things, inc. "fuck pitchfork" and "pitchfork sucks"
He doesn't "hate people hyped by pitchfork", that's like really stupid thing to say, you clearly know nothing of the Ott
― Raccoon Tanuki, Monday, 15 December 2014 16:51 (nine years ago) link
WE HAVE SOCK SLIPPAGE ATTENTION WE HAVE SOCK SLIPPAGE
― just a couple of assholes having breakfast (slothroprhymes), Monday, 15 December 2014 16:54 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__HBBf_eDLM
― Nixon head is essential. (stevie), Monday, 15 December 2014 16:58 (nine years ago) link
Looks like your big toe popped through, probably due to your little claws.
― Evan, Monday, 15 December 2014 17:00 (nine years ago) link
sloth you're a charli xcx superfan i think that qualifies you to the autosock club
― Raccoon Tanuki, Monday, 15 December 2014 17:02 (nine years ago) link
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 15 December 2014 17:03 (nine years ago) link
you're saying sloth is charlie xcx?
― Evan, Monday, 15 December 2014 17:05 (nine years ago) link
look, it's no one's fault but god's that you don't have opposable thumbs, take it up with him
i am a superfan of many musical things, even ones supposedly approved by both otts and tanukis
― franch montana (slothroprhymes), Monday, 15 December 2014 17:06 (nine years ago) link
xp i'd prob have my student loans paid if i was, that'd be so convenient
― franch montana (slothroprhymes), Monday, 15 December 2014 17:07 (nine years ago) link
lisen I said something unkind about charlie xcx when I joined and it set a light to your ass ever since don't be mad cuz I'm right
― Raccoon Tanuki, Monday, 15 December 2014 17:18 (nine years ago) link
Don't Be Mad Cuz I'm Right: The Thoughts of Raccoon Tanuki (self-published)
― Re-Make/Re-Model, Monday, 15 December 2014 17:20 (nine years ago) link
oh,
http://31.media.tumblr.com/c2f7227472d03fca6402df75065ca3c9/tumblr_n78b0nDAT91qdc41so1_500.jpg
― (曇り) (clouds), Monday, 15 December 2014 17:21 (nine years ago) link
ott i mean nuki you have never once said anything about charli xcx while i've been on ILX, other than posting a link to the saul austerlitz article ITT, and i could care less if you did - for the 1,000th time, things like that are not why people mock you for clowning on pop music
also i know the spelling errors might be a cover-your-sock-tracks tactic but goddamn dude
― franch montana (slothroprhymes), Monday, 15 December 2014 17:31 (nine years ago) link
bene vixit qui bene latuit
― Pigbag Wanderer (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 28 December 2014 22:09 (nine years ago) link
the ott is gone, long live the ott
― hackshaw, Monday, 29 December 2014 00:26 (nine years ago) link
how did I miss this most glorious of moments
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Monday, 29 December 2014 01:55 (nine years ago) link
Is there a sadder bastion of back-patting than ILM IDK.
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Monday, 19 January 2015 04:34 (nine years ago) link
Hi
― Wu-Tang Clannad (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 January 2015 04:39 (nine years ago) link
IT ISN'T SO WRONG TO BE WHERE YOU'RE FROM.
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Monday, 19 January 2015 04:39 (nine years ago) link
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Sunday, January 18, 2015 11:34 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
probably you, by yourself, making videos in your basement
― call all destroyer, Monday, 19 January 2015 04:39 (nine years ago) link
Basements are underrated though
― polyphonic, Monday, 19 January 2015 04:42 (nine years ago) link
Xpost It's not where you're from but where you're ott
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Monday, 19 January 2015 04:45 (nine years ago) link
My videos had more hits than this thread, so, no.
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Monday, 19 January 2015 04:50 (nine years ago) link
i'll never know, until i can watch chris ott's children sleeping ;_;
― mookieproof, Monday, 19 January 2015 04:50 (nine years ago) link
ILM is the NME mailbin of the Internet age.
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Monday, 19 January 2015 04:51 (nine years ago) link
are your video hit numbers as trustworthy as your twitter follower stats?
― call all destroyer, Monday, 19 January 2015 04:53 (nine years ago) link
that sounds like something a Brand Strategist would be really concerned with vetting.
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Monday, 19 January 2015 04:56 (nine years ago) link
zing, because hits don't matter, oh wait
― poxy fülvous (abanana), Monday, 19 January 2015 06:41 (nine years ago) link
why do i care how many hits this thread is do i think this thread should go viral and make me money what is this?
this thread has insufficient hits its a failure shut it down
― celfie tucker 48 (s.clover), Monday, 19 January 2015 06:55 (nine years ago) link
http://img.pandawhale.com/post-33728-normalizedtmp52ab8dbb2544a-YS1L.gif
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Monday, 19 January 2015 06:56 (nine years ago) link
thing is a lotta guys who see themselves as Benders are really Brians
― Wu-Tang Clannad (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 January 2015 14:53 (nine years ago) link
But Stapp later came into the Harbor Court Hotel bar while Sexton and bandmates SA Martinez and P-Nut were watching basketball on television. He stepped in front of the screen and said, "311, I am ready to fight," according to Sexton.
― da croupier, Monday, 19 January 2015 15:07 (nine years ago) link
bytchass of juxberry rules, agreed?
― a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Monday, 19 January 2015 15:25 (nine years ago) link
Hey Chris,
Pygmalion is just "OK".
― Evan, Monday, 19 January 2015 15:37 (nine years ago) link
*cries in the snow*
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 19 January 2015 17:01 (nine years ago) link
A Place to Bury Strangers did Loveless better than MBV
― 龜, Monday, 19 January 2015 17:03 (nine years ago) link
still got a tiny black mole on my heart for the ilxor bluds.
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Sunday, 12 April 2015 03:21 (nine years ago) link
http://38.media.tumblr.com/a06023ea28c9dc642f080829063fcb4f/tumblr_nmoccroW0U1qdmmiqo1_400.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/EoIwjZ3.jpg
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 12 April 2015 03:35 (nine years ago) link
Is it asymmetric?
― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, 12 April 2015 03:56 (nine years ago) link
i don't know, but it keeps coming back and it's gross and it smells
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 12 April 2015 03:57 (nine years ago) link
has Ott ever been more hilariously dumb than when he tried to make hay out of PF 'cashing in' on The Jacka's death by running an unpublished interview with him by the writer who'd done the most to champion his music (and wrote an 8.0 review of one of his albums for PF just weeks earlier).
― some dude, Sunday, 12 April 2015 04:08 (nine years ago) link
i mean, pitchfork literally posted it so people would click on a newsworthy thing and then they could subsequently provide traffic numbers that they could give advertisers in exchange for money...
But that's just called "doing your job"
― ciao, o rank cunt (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 12 April 2015 18:15 (nine years ago) link
Nothing new there. Publications, print and online, have published "previously unpublished" interviews with recently deceased artists since time immemorial. There's just a more direct way of tracking the effect of that now.
― Position Position, Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:10 (nine years ago) link
eh i think there's such a thing as being TOO cynical when it comes to things like this. we all, as writers, have niche artists we love and have championed. they're all gonna die someday, some of them maybe unexpectedly and way too soon. when that happens, and you have something substantial to say about them, or an unpublished interview or whatever, you're not gonna send it to an editor and put it front of an audience, and try to do something for their now-suddenly -posthumous legacy? maybe because some asshole on twitter thinks you're just 'doing it for the clicks'? fuck that. there've been underrated regional/local rappers who i've had to write obituaries for in the last few years and i sure as fuck wasn't doing it for the little check that i could've gotten writing about anything else, it fucking sucked, i'd rather those guys were still alive and i'm sure deej feels the same about one of his favorite rappers.
― some dude, Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:48 (nine years ago) link
i mean, i'm not yelling at you guys for your reasonable responses, i'm just venting because Ott is a moron who'll put anything Pitchfork in the crosshairs for any ridiculous reason.
― some dude, Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:50 (nine years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMexjQBWUAEVZ5u.jpg
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Thursday, 20 August 2015 03:52 (eight years ago) link
lonely, big fella?
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 20 August 2015 03:57 (eight years ago) link
no those are two of my kids at right. lonely, as a descriptor, hasn't applied to my life in over ten years.
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Thursday, 20 August 2015 04:00 (eight years ago) link
http://38.media.tumblr.com/1a1a7d8051e4c7505248c9255da945d9/tumblr_n7lwor6HKF1rrkahjo3_400.gif
― da croupier, Thursday, 20 August 2015 14:40 (eight years ago) link
peak dadbod
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 20 August 2015 14:59 (eight years ago) link
well that's awkward
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 20 August 2015 15:10 (eight years ago) link
who's the person in the distance yelling 'put a shirt on'
― am0n, Thursday, 20 August 2015 15:30 (eight years ago) link
Dan Hedaya?
― Eternal Return To Earth (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 20 August 2015 15:52 (eight years ago) link
I didn't realize that Chris Ott and the guy from Man vs. Food were related.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 August 2015 16:05 (eight years ago) link
why is this happening
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 20 August 2015 16:15 (eight years ago) link
dnftt
― scott seward, Thursday, 20 August 2015 17:31 (eight years ago) link
I like the album cover, but where's the track list?
― Evan, Thursday, 20 August 2015 18:00 (eight years ago) link
― scott seward, Thursday, August 20, 2015 1:31 PM
literally
― am0n, Thursday, 20 August 2015 18:30 (eight years ago) link
back in my day kids wanted to be doctors and astronauts and princesses, now they just want to be ammo in internet flame wars
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Thursday, 20 August 2015 18:46 (eight years ago) link
Its a good part, filming commences in February.
― Mark G, Thursday, 20 August 2015 22:01 (eight years ago) link
dnfott
― Eternal Return To Earth (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 20 August 2015 22:58 (eight years ago) link
He looks pretty well fed
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 21 August 2015 01:15 (eight years ago) link
Damn. I get that the guy has some controversial opinions and can be a bit of a blowhard about it, but the bitterness here is intense…
― soyrev, Friday, 21 August 2015 01:26 (eight years ago) link
don't fight the bloat, let it wash over you
― hunangarage, Friday, 21 August 2015 01:28 (eight years ago) link
― soyrev, Thursday, August 20, 2015 9:26 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
he keeps showing up, which does nothing to discourage my assumption that he likes the abuse
― call all destroyer, Friday, 21 August 2015 01:32 (eight years ago) link
pictures of people who have somehow figured out how to...
― Eternal Return To Earth (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 21 August 2015 02:31 (eight years ago) link
For how many posters can this be said? (Change the pronoun as appropriate.)
― Vernon Locke, Friday, 21 August 2015 06:23 (eight years ago) link
https://twitter.com/sad13/status/636560806491082752
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 15:58 (eight years ago) link
I don't know who Chris Ott is and I don't give a fuck.
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 16:12 (eight years ago) link
good call
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 16:18 (eight years ago) link
For context, and because it's much more interesting than Ott being creepy and abusive on the internet yet again, there's a storify of the responses to Jessica Hopper's question about sexism in the music industry here: https://storify.com/Laupina_/from-the-margins
― one way street, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:19 (eight years ago) link
man, those remarks to Sadie Dupuis are completely unacceptable. I mean, a troll is a troll is a troll, but still: his "bad boy" persona is a flimsy cover for utterly pedestrian phobic sexist garbage.
― the tune was space, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:54 (eight years ago) link
he claims she omitted the tweet he was responding to, which had similar language. I can't find it though
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:57 (eight years ago) link
Oh, I found it. It was from a few months ago. I guess he meant it as a callback?
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:58 (eight years ago) link
I'm not sure of the timeline here but it looks like Ott's tweets are old too since they're responding to a handle she doesn't use anymore
― Why because she True and Interesting (President Keyes), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 19:01 (eight years ago) link
She made an obvious sonic youth reference at his expense, he made "hermaphrodite" jokes in response. Either he's being facetious or forgot the name of a SY song about rock critics, guessing former
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 19:02 (eight years ago) link
he harasses women on twitter all the time
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 26 August 2015 19:11 (eight years ago) link
his twitter feed thru 8/24 is pretty *steeples fingers*
― goole, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 19:11 (eight years ago) link
"harassing women on twitter all the time" should be a steely dan post-reunion lyric
― anti-hackers (mattresslessness), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 19:14 (eight years ago) link
is there a reading of this tweet other than the one I'm employing https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/634145850026033152
― Hector Ringtone (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 19:22 (eight years ago) link
something I did not say in response to that post: a later instance of feeling like I don't count is that one thing that ran on collapseboard or wherever on ott's latest crusade against pitchfork, and in the comments he would respond to the men there (including pitchfork writers!) with comments to the effect of "you know you're my man, but..." and then ignore the women entirely
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 19:39 (eight years ago) link
not sure just how much 'chris ott is awful and a fucking creep' we can handle but there's more to be found in this feed https://twitter.com/ween_ebooks
― Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 23:25 (eight years ago) link
how old is ott?
― soref, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 23:40 (eight years ago) link
i retract my earlier 'damn' re: the vitriol this guy gets here and elsewhere, he does it to himself...
― soyrev, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 23:52 (eight years ago) link
ts: chris ott vs. edward champion
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 23:55 (eight years ago) link
hey chris, how's the family?
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 27 August 2015 00:32 (eight years ago) link
∆ֆᏲℒཇƴ ɱΛÐརᎦᎧƝ
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 27 August 2015 03:59 (eight years ago) link
: )
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 27 August 2015 04:13 (eight years ago) link
∆ֆᏲℒཇƴ ɱΛÐརᎦᎧƝ --Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli)
― slothroprhymes, Thursday, 27 August 2015 04:27 (eight years ago) link
nice
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 27 August 2015 05:57 (eight years ago) link
Who will protect the innocent 21 year-olds from those lecherous "adult" 35 year-olds? Oh, the humanity. I actually apologized - but you won't see that on the timeline.
Ashley mad xpost - best in ages.
― $90k plus bennies (CJ IN THE CUT), Thursday, 27 August 2015 09:18 (eight years ago) link
please leave
― 龜, Thursday, 27 August 2015 13:08 (eight years ago) link
xpost "Actually..."
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 27 August 2015 13:34 (eight years ago) link
gtfo
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 27 August 2015 14:03 (eight years ago) link
please don't post in the thread we made about you and constantly update
― Now Dom Go Suggbanizer Way (Why?) (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 27 August 2015 14:12 (eight years ago) link
Yeah this is getting silly
― abcfsk, Thursday, 27 August 2015 14:22 (eight years ago) link
Getting?
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 27 August 2015 14:23 (eight years ago) link
I've made real progress today - I removed the bookmark from this thread.
― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Thursday, 27 August 2015 14:34 (eight years ago) link
so apparently Chriss Ott is REALLY popular on reddit and 4chan
― flappy bird, Sunday, 15 May 2016 23:20 (seven years ago) link
he did an AMA yesterday on r/indieheads and it was like, we are not worthy. i never heard of this guy before i read about him on ILM, so it was sort of a shock to see people (teenagers?) worshipping him
― flappy bird, Sunday, 15 May 2016 23:21 (seven years ago) link
people really respond to that level of financial success
― adam, Sunday, 15 May 2016 23:25 (seven years ago) link
all about the bennies
― Elvis Santana (stevie), Monday, 16 May 2016 08:31 (seven years ago) link
lol 'indieheads'
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 16 May 2016 13:14 (seven years ago) link
Does Chris Ott laugh? Smile? What a miserable fella
― afriendlypioneer, Monday, 16 May 2016 14:56 (seven years ago) link
what does he even do now, besides be an internet grouch? i remember him doing some good stuff for perfect sound forever but it feels like my 2010s awareness of him has been exclusively through this thread
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Monday, 16 May 2016 15:01 (seven years ago) link
he followed me on twitter for awhile, then unfollowed me after i unfollowed him. so he seems like he spends a lot of time on the internet. he's probably reading this! hi chris
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 16 May 2016 15:34 (seven years ago) link
reddit thrilled to have someone just say what they've all been thinkin'
― 龜, Monday, 16 May 2016 15:37 (seven years ago) link
That more people read and/or react to my writing than most music critics out there today, and usually (notably, gratefully) from beyond the self-adoring, self-obsessed ILM/Reynolds/Momus/blogger community.Now are you riled? SUCKAZ SHOCKA!!!
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, September 24, 2003
― scott seward, Monday, 16 May 2016 15:37 (seven years ago) link
wow some things never change
― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Monday, 16 May 2016 15:39 (seven years ago) link
"I guess someone's trying to start Who Pays Influencers (this is a completely bullshit scenario people are trying to pretend is commonplace - companies are not giving cash to people on Insta to wear their clothes, anyone who believes this and reports it needs to get checked. It's like six people and they're legit celebrities beyond social media)." lol what
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, 16 May 2016 15:44 (seven years ago) link
"this phenomenon, which is so established that the FTC issued guidelines on it years ago, is bullshit. I know this because I have all these /mu/ followers and yet no one wants me to wear their clothes."
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, 16 May 2016 15:46 (seven years ago) link
I don't think there's anyone who doesn't want Ott to wear clothes tbh
― it's getting ott in here / so take off all your clothes (stevie), Monday, 16 May 2016 15:49 (seven years ago) link
i'm listening to that swirlies record now, it's ok
― goole, Monday, 16 May 2016 16:36 (seven years ago) link
The concept of "growing" is so pathetic - and the best part is this laughable conflation with it as some badge of depth, of wooden, True music, maaaaaaaaaaan. A "grower" is an album you don't like but either A) repeatedly subject yourself to because you know it has social currency and if you want to partake of its social currency you must submit to it on some level, or B) you ensure people know you're aware of until its handlers find some way of selling it in the future, at which point you can say "Oh yeah I remember that album, it came out last October", broadcasting your stature as an Alpha Consumer.I am hitting you in the face with a baseball bat right now.
I am hitting you in the face with a baseball bat right now.
I really dislike this guy.
― afriendlypioneer, Monday, 16 May 2016 16:56 (seven years ago) link
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, May 16, 2016 10:44 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lol completely wrong!!
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 16 May 2016 18:13 (seven years ago) link
wait which person is wrong in this scenario
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, 16 May 2016 18:19 (seven years ago) link
TBF Reddit isn't happy with everything he's saying:
whatever9991230 9 points 2 days ago ive been way more disillusioned with music, recently. Every album is either a "surprise" release or pushed by the same marketing cycle. Is it too much for me to want something real/ is that even really possible anymore?
shallowrewards 0 points 2 days ago Patience is a virtue. Just ignore the noise and definitely filter anyone out of your life who uses music in a competitive way. If anyone asks you if you've heard of a band or heard a record, I mean, just delete that person from your life. When people ask me that, I invariably say no, whatever the case may be. And if they start to recommend it to me, I tell them it doesn't really sound like my kind of thing. Their discomfort and disappointment in not being able to use music in a way they should not be using it is a wonderful feeling.
VERY_LARGE_BENIS_XD 41 points 2 days ago Who the fuck is upvoting this? This idea is bizarre and misanthropic. Sure some people will do this in the competitive sense but others just want to turn you on to good music. I have found some great stuff by listening to friends and I'm all the happier for it.
― Evan, Monday, 16 May 2016 18:56 (seven years ago) link
I nearly c&p'd that exact conversation.
― how's life, Monday, 16 May 2016 19:03 (seven years ago) link
what an odd comment to make from a rock critic who shouts at people for not having heard certain obscure shoegazer albums
― Neptune Bingo (Michael B), Monday, 16 May 2016 19:14 (seven years ago) link
did you expect anything but wisdom from VERY_LARGE_BENIS_XD
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, 16 May 2016 19:16 (seven years ago) link
(also, it is equally unsurprising that one of the top threads is "hi, do you agree with all this mental snot I'm going to smear about political correctness and SJWs?" "yes yes this is good I completely agree")
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, 16 May 2016 19:17 (seven years ago) link
If anyone asks you if you've heard of a band or heard a record, I mean, just delete that person from your life. When people ask me that, I invariably say no, whatever the case may be. And if they start to recommend it to me, I tell them it doesn't really sound like my kind of thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx6IzwOdnac
― le Histoire du Edgy Miley (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 May 2016 19:18 (seven years ago) link
VERY_LARGE_BENNIES_XD
― le Histoire du Edgy Miley (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 May 2016 19:19 (seven years ago) link
― Sufjan Grafton, Monday, 16 May 2016 19:28 (seven years ago) link
okay i got curious and went to check out this 'r/indieheads' and wow the formatting is bad it's really ugly and unpleasant to look at
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 16 May 2016 19:32 (seven years ago) link
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, May 16, 2016 1:19 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Ott is obv factually completely wrong
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 16 May 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link
ok, just checking. (it would be concerning if my sister was getting paid bennies for an imaginary job!)
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, 16 May 2016 20:27 (seven years ago) link
It's a weird claim to make even.
maybe eveything u think u know is a lie
― Tim F, Monday, 16 May 2016 20:42 (seven years ago) link
(it would be concerning if my sister was getting paid bennies for an imaginary job!)
it would be fucking awesome!
― it's getting ott in here / so take off all your clothes (stevie), Monday, 16 May 2016 21:07 (seven years ago) link
"maybe eveything u think u know is a lie"
i've got a thread for that...
The Case Against Reality: If snakes aren’t snakes and trains aren’t trains, what are they?
― scott seward, Monday, 16 May 2016 21:12 (seven years ago) link
these zoologists with their jobs pretending snakes are real
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Monday, 16 May 2016 23:11 (seven years ago) link
If we've evolved to tolerate jokers like Ott for our survival, Ott is, in reality, even more intolerable than we perceive.
― Sufjan Grafton, Monday, 16 May 2016 23:19 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/CraigSJ/status/735220549685805062
"He tried and failed?"
"He tried and died."
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 02:55 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/CraigSJ/status/735286559965077504
― how's life, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 10:10 (seven years ago) link
Ott's obsession with Conde Nast/major media conglomerates is so stupid.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 15:56 (seven years ago) link
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 15:59 (seven years ago) link
Well, yeah.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 16:42 (seven years ago) link
transcribing an interview with a child dev. researcher and she said:
"So, it may be that some of the biological bennies of the attachment relationship have a sensitive period to them. "
― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 August 2016 19:16 (seven years ago) link
Oh dear.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 20:01 (seven years ago) link
I say bennies all the time now lol
― Spottie, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 20:19 (seven years ago) link
it's to the point where if i were offered a job that paid, say, 97K and bennies I might talk them down to 94K just because after taxes and shit it wouldn't make that much difference, just so i could live the #ottlyfe
― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 August 2016 20:32 (seven years ago) link
yup same
― Spottie, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 21:15 (seven years ago) link
This Tweet is unavailable.
― mookieproof, Monday, 6 February 2017 15:43 (seven years ago) link
Heard about some scrap he and Craig Jenkins got into?
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 February 2017 16:10 (seven years ago) link
― mookieproof, Monday, February 6, 2017 10:43 AM (forty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Would look good on a t-shirt or mug I think
― Evan, Monday, 6 February 2017 16:25 (seven years ago) link
donald trump reminds me of chris ott
― Poliopolice, Monday, 6 February 2017 16:41 (seven years ago) link
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pXGxkIeF5JA/hqdefault.jpg
― Evan, Monday, 6 February 2017 16:55 (seven years ago) link
apparently went after craig jenkins in the middle of the night on twitter and said some nasty shit (don't know what he said, jenkins is referring to it but not repeating it)
― nomar, Monday, 6 February 2017 17:11 (seven years ago) link
fascinating
― k3vin k., Monday, 6 February 2017 17:12 (seven years ago) link
I wonder if history books will littered with references to infamous early 21st century twitter beefs.
― Poliopolice, Monday, 6 February 2017 17:21 (seven years ago) link
Chapter IV: Azealia Banks
― ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Monday, 6 February 2017 17:28 (seven years ago) link
what different do you expect from someone who's aligned himself so publicly with the alt-right
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, 6 February 2017 17:30 (seven years ago) link
(ott, I mean)
He seems to be on a deleting spree - his account currently lists only 69 tweets. He's directed more than that at Jenn Pelly alone, I bet.
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 6 February 2017 17:40 (seven years ago) link
69 tweets
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Monday, 6 February 2017 17:49 (seven years ago) link
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 6 February 2017 17:53 (seven years ago) link
all of his tweets are retweets of noz rn pretty much
― husked, tonal wails (irrational), Monday, 6 February 2017 18:00 (seven years ago) link
suprised, he's seemed like he's in a really good place lately
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7-dlPD6WAY
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 February 2017 18:01 (seven years ago) link
69 Love Tweets
― duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Monday, 6 February 2017 18:01 (seven years ago) link
― nomar, Monday, February 6, 2017 11:11 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
he went after jenkins for having a job, said 'yo' and other condescending shit for a while. i shouldn't have been awake with my phone in my hand to see it, but it was that kind of night.
― goole, Monday, 6 February 2017 23:56 (seven years ago) link
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, February 6, 2017 11:30 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
what's the deal w/ this? can see he threw a few likes to one of those trumpy fashwave dealios...
― goole, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 00:04 (seven years ago) link
so did someone take over his account as parody?? or is this real.
i guess it says something that i can't tell.
though the followers are way down so maybe it was restarted.
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:10 (six years ago) link
Thank you for providing that link, because for some reason the block I had placed on it apparently wasn't there anymore. I've now solved that problem anew.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:16 (six years ago) link
haha glad to helpstill can't tell if it's real :?
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:21 (six years ago) link
based on the background image, no.
― campreverb, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:26 (six years ago) link
This guy SUCKS.
― afriendlypioneer, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:29 (six years ago) link
he curses a lot
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:33 (six years ago) link
idk could be
― goole, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:34 (six years ago) link
oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
― joshywinty (josh), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:26 (six years ago) link
@shallowrewards Jun 25 500 Days of Summer. Gets me. Every. Fucking. Time. When I talk about what my days were like under Ryan, that's what it was.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:28 (six years ago) link
500 days of custos
― mark s, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:31 (six years ago) link
I think it's amazing that Ned hates this guy so much.If Ned hates you, you really must have no redeeming qualities.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:20 (six years ago) link
He might love puppies or something, but I care not.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:22 (six years ago) link
ts: ott vs. c-man
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:24 (six years ago) link
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6DGNZnfKYnU/hqdefault.jpg
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:25 (six years ago) link
"Gorilla mindset follower." is the giveaway here
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 00:08 (six years ago) link
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/chris-ott-deleted-his-shallowrewards-twitter-for-real/
― joshywinty (josh), Wednesday, 28 June 2017 00:12 (six years ago) link
yeah, this is parody. definitely someone from hipinion.
― fffv, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 02:11 (six years ago) link
how has there not been a single mention of "bennies" yet?
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 02:20 (six years ago) link
Dude is going to be 65 and probably still excited that several decades before about twenty other dudes wrote about him on a message board.
― yesca, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 02:56 (six years ago) link
If Ned hates you, you really must have no redeeming qualities.
ned is an o.g. hater
― j., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 03:32 (six years ago) link
Why does Ned Raggett hate Belle and Sebastian with such unbridled intensity?
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/nylpm/2000/05/in-answer-to-the-band-best-of-lists/
In answer to the band best-of listsNED RAGGETT • NEW YORK LONDON PARIS MUNICH • POP • POST A COMMENT • 203 VIEWS… I deem it both meet and right to speak about the music and related things I loathe. In an underrated essay from Neil Tennant that appeared in a mid-1992 issue of Details, he discussed hate as a motivating factor for creation and sense of self. To quote: “It tells you, by elimination, what you’re about. Sometimes you can only define yourself by what you hate. Hatred becomes an inspiration, it makes you think, ‘What I’m doing now I totally believe in, and I don’t care what other people say.’ Guided by hatred, you don’t have to follow the herd.”
NED RAGGETT • NEW YORK LONDON PARIS MUNICH • POP • POST A COMMENT • 203 VIEWS… I deem it both meet and right to speak about the music and related things I loathe. In an underrated essay from Neil Tennant that appeared in a mid-1992 issue of Details, he discussed hate as a motivating factor for creation and sense of self. To quote: “It tells you, by elimination, what you’re about. Sometimes you can only define yourself by what you hate. Hatred becomes an inspiration, it makes you think, ‘What I’m doing now I totally believe in, and I don’t care what other people say.’ Guided by hatred, you don’t have to follow the herd.”
― j., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 03:35 (six years ago) link
And indeed, I know what deserves my venom.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 03:36 (six years ago) link
iirc, Interpol and Elliott Smith too
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:32 (six years ago) link
The former, yes. The latter I was never really convinced by, though I was a Heatmiser fan. I just remember him doing an opening set for the Tindersticks in late 1997 that seemed pretty blah.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:39 (six years ago) link
Allmusic's Ned Raggett takes No Prisoners
― Guidonian Handsworth Revolution (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:48 (six years ago) link
ned will really burn you on a bad show experience
― j., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:50 (six years ago) link
It sure didn't help!
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:53 (six years ago) link
Oh man, I still have my copy of that Neil Tennant essay. Have to pull it out again to re-read.
― john. a resident of chicago., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 05:06 (six years ago) link
Lots of people dig up my old tweets. They dont get it. Mad because your dad gets more pussy than you? Suck my fuckin dick12:05 PM - 17 Jun 2017
― hackshaw, Thursday, 29 June 2017 03:38 (six years ago) link
what if everyone just unfollowed chris ott and stopped talking about him and we all pretended he never existed
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 29 June 2017 03:48 (six years ago) link
I'm in.
― Shanty Brunch (stevie), Thursday, 29 June 2017 09:13 (six years ago) link
reddit first
― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Thursday, 29 June 2017 17:51 (six years ago) link
we need the eggs, karl
― j., Thursday, 29 June 2017 18:04 (six years ago) link
👋🐨 pic.twitter.com/z6SwVQUHaW— Pallbearer (@pallbearerdoom) July 2, 2017
― j., Sunday, 2 July 2017 14:11 (six years ago) link
whut
― alpine static, Monday, 3 July 2017 08:16 (six years ago) link
it seems unrelated but it's an absolutely wonderful post that is appreciated very much by me. keith fullerton whitman must've went to the same koala farm because there's a great picture of him with one. i'll see if i can find it
― flappy bird, Monday, 3 July 2017 17:19 (six years ago) link
http://factmag-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/keithwhitman-4.15.2013.jpg
grant morrison needs to lay off the pies
― 🎵oooh, kevin has a place in perth🎵 (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 3 July 2017 17:22 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7MSTcRlKzs
― Leslie “POLLS” Hartley (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 25 March 2018 16:35 (six years ago) link