Name one great hip hop album from 2003

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― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

King Geedorah - Take me To Your Leader
Viktor Vaughn - Vaudeville Villain
Five Deez - Kinkynasti

― angel duster, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I suppose there's some agenda at work here but the two I put on my P&J thing were David Banner and Bubba Sparxxx. Pretty obvious choices really.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Sparxxx, Atmosphere, Jay-Z (I haven't really been convinced by all the arguments against it i.e. "OMG HE SAYS HE LIKES KWELI, WHAT A HERB"), anything with MF Doom's name or pseudonym on it, Aesop Rock.

Like hip-hop's importance relies in its status as an "album genre" anyways.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

and Banner, definitely, yeah

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I've been listening to 'This is Not a Test' a lot. It's top-notch (I don't know about 'great').

― Debito (Debito), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

tom otm mot mto tmo omt

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)

>Like hip-hop's importance relies in its status as an "album genre" anyways.

Hip-hop's importance, it seems, lies in its usefulness as a bludgeon.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:03 (twenty-two years ago)

"seems"

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Doom, Banner, Jigga and Bubba seconded.

Also -

Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Vol. 2
Jean Grae - The Bootleg of the Bootleg EP
Danger Mouse and Jemini - Ghetto Pop Life
Jaylib - Champion Sound
Cunninlynguists - Southernunderground

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I just wanted to know what it felt like on the other side of that bludgeoning for once.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

everyone passes up cadence. cadence "cadence poisons the minds of children." the track about bush is really good. guy is a good lyricist.

― sjhgf, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:14 (twenty-two years ago)

No agenda Tom, I just honestly don't have any real big faves from 2003! London and la escuela has got me kind of out of the loop too. I have a stiff test for hip hop albums which I TOTALLY don't apply to other genres, like I'll be all "hey there's a record out by this band, maybe I'll get it" (actually I can't remember the last time I said that - wait haha it was No Doubt!!). I've got double standards for sure, multiple standards that bear no relation or justification or equivalence to each other. A hip hop album HAS to have three great songs on it before I even think about getting it. The latest Eve album for instance I was looking forward to like nothing before or since. But I didn't get my three. If I haven't heard three songs from it that just "drip diamonds out they browneye" and keep my headphones welded down on my brane then I won't even be interested.

I do love some songs from David Banner. Maybe I should get it! I wasn't all that into the JZ thing too much. Didn't hear the Sparxx at ALL so I didn't get it... thing is, I bet it's great. I didn't hear my three songs there because of sheer laziness. New Missy feels super COLD and actually reaches backwards in time and makes her older albums feel even colder than they were in the first place.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

David Banner
Non-Prophets
Ludacris
Bubba Sparxxx
Soul Position
Missy Elliot
All the MF Doom projects
Madlib
DM and Jemini
Jay-Z
Louis Logic
Atmosphere
Brother Ali
Outkast
Diverse (so underrated...)
Pete Rock (Lost and Found)
Aesop Rock
Joe Budden (criminally underrated)
Gang Starr
50 Cent (overexposed, but dece)
Immortal Technique
Little Brother

and I'm sure I'm missing some.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Although it def. seems hip hop is more a singles genre now than it was in, say, the early 90s.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Nobody here has mentioned Ying Yang Twins or Buck 65, both of which I'll take over any other hip-hop album released last year, except for the David Banner *Screwed And Chopped* Mississippi one. Bubba Sparxxx is just a millimeter below Buck 65, though.

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

No one's mentioned Freeway either.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree that the Joe Budden is underrated, too. And two more really good 2003 albums that NOBODY ever talks about (much better than Jay Z, Atmosphere, or Ludacris) are the one by the Youngbloodz and Turk.

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Freeway - good call.

I haven't heard Buck 65s, maybe I should check it out.

The only song I heard by him was "Centaur," and I sorta found it a bit too ridiculous for me...not that funny, not that great...I donno. I gave up on him a bit early perhaps.

Mississippi chopped and screwed is pretty terrific.

xpost - I haven't heard either Youngbloodz or Turk, but I have a hard time believing they're better than jay-z. On the other hand, I'm currently camping out under Jay-Z's nuts after hearing the Black Album.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

>it def. seems hip hop is more a singles genre now than it was in, say, the early 90s.<

I totally disagee with this, by the way. (Though it's possible I'm just forgetting how good all those Kriss Kross and Vanilla Ice and House of Pain and Sir Mix a Lot albums were; I dunno.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the pure number of incredible albums from say '87-96 blasts the number of great hip hop albums being released now. Choose any year in that period and I'll drop twice as many great albums that were released last year (or the year before, or the year before).
And I'm not some sorta nostalgic mufucker either...I think hip hop is just as great as it was then, just more focused on singles than it was at that time...

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

That should read "twice as many great albums THAN were released last year." My bad.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

(perhaps you're focusing more on pop hip hop releases?)

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

That doesn't mean it's more focused on singles, as much as it means that you like the albums from that period better.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

no fair. you said early 90's, not mid 80's to mid 90's.you only get to choose from 1990 to 1993.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

(Actually I think the decline in great albums as a whole--not just in hip hop--has more to do with the fact that so many artists feel the need to FILL every single second of space on CDs, a virtual non-problem in the late 80's/early 90's.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Best hip hop albums of 1987-1990, off the top of my head: Spoonie Gee, *The Godfather of Rap,*, The Real Roxanne, *The Real Roxanne,* L'Trimm *Drop That Bottom.* But yeah, I'm sure there were many others. (Including a few hundred by Maggotron, probably.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

most 70 minute albums blow chunks.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

87 to 90? yeesh, there are ten million great rap records.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

(Oops, I meant 1987-96. Same list, pretty much. Which just goes to show how great 1991-1995 were for hip hop LPs. I do need to go back and relisten to Quad City DJs one of these days, though, I admit.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn, do I have to be the one to say it? Big Boi 'Speakerboxxx'. Yeah yeah overrated blah blah fuck you.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't remember 91 to 95. what the hell happened? where was i?

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

when did the chronic come out? i think i blacked out.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

And I also need to relisten one of these days to Tag Team. (But the Hi-Town DJs' excellent *We Came 2 Groove* wasn't til '88, ha!)

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i have a great quad city t-shirt. a big arrow on the back points to my booty.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

what eric b & rakim album had Mahogany on it? that was 91 or 92 right? All my old idols were losing some steam. even Schooly.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

And I actually think the REALLY best era for hip-hop albums was more like 1980-1986 (Those Sugarhill Greatest Hits collections through Schooly D's *Saturday Night* and the Beastie Boys' *Licensed to Ill.*)By '87, things were somewhat going WAY THE HELL down the tubes.

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Eric B and Rakim and EPMD did make some fun singles, though.

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:17 (twenty-two years ago)

*circles pointed index finger around right ear*

x-post: Not about the Eric B & Rakim and EPMD part of that.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:18 (twenty-two years ago)

That doesn't mean it's more focused on singles, as much as it means that you like the albums from that period better.
-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...), January 27th, 2004.

Well obv. its all subjective...but I think that the amount of strong albums from that period were better, and that singles have again become emphasized in the art (influence of the internet?)

to fair. you said early 90's, not mid 80's to mid 90's.you only get to choose from 1990 to 1993.

That's fine.
Where the hell were you guys in the early 90s?

3 classic Gang Starr albums, 3 classic Tribe Called Quest albums, Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg, Digital Underground, Illmatic, Ready to Die, whatever releases 2pac had, Pete Rock and CL Smooth, Main Source, KMD, Pharcyde, Souls of Mischief, 2 Digable Planets albums, Diamond D, DITC, Big L, O.C., Organized Konfusion, Raekwon, Wu Tang, GZA, Method Man, ODB, 2 great Ice Cube albums, the last great Eric B and Rakim album, a couple great Public Enemy albums, Boogie Down Productions and early solo KRS-1, the first Outkast album, Jeru the Damaja's 2 classic albums, Showbiz and AG's Runaway Slave, Brand Nubian (was that very late 80s?), Mobb Deep, Scarface, Geto Boys, Redman, Large Professor, Beatnuts, Alkoholiks, Smif-n-Wessun, Del tha Funkee Homosapien, Run DMC's last great album, Aceyalone's first album, Black Sheep, Black Moon, The Artifacts, The Coup, Das EFX...

is that enough evidence?
Early 90s for me goes straight thru 95, sorry...
Thats what I was referring to when I first was discussing "the early 90s." One or two of the albums I mentioned may have been like 96 or something, but the vast, vast majority were 90-95.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I forgot Common's "Resurrection" (1994 I believe) which is prolly one of my favorites.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Shoot, another great 2003 hip-hop album (better than Youngbloodz, Turk, or Joe Budden even!) that nobody has mentioned is Panjabi MC. If he counts. Which he should. (As should Dizzee Rascal, I guess. And all those *Garage Rap* compilations that came out in England, too.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)

"Though it's possible I'm just forgetting how good all those Kriss Kross and Vanilla Ice and House of Pain and Sir Mix a Lot albums were"

The first Kris Kross album was great--I'd take it over 50 Cent or any of the Banner stuff. The House of Pain records weren't all that bad either.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i was listening to slayer and k.d. lang back then.(early 90's) it's all a blur. i was working the graveyard shift 60 hours a week in a supermarket in new milford, connecticut. THAT much i remember. my own glory dayz of rap would be 87 to 89. i felt like i was living thru a revolution that would only end with the death of capitalism.from public enemy's debut to nwa's debut make nice bookends. i thought rap music was gonna save the world. then i got drunk and suicidal. when i woke up, i was in philadelphia and cash money was playing old school for new schoolers. that youngbloodz album is pretty damned good.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:33 (twenty-two years ago)

>(But the Hi-Town DJs' excellent *We Came 2 Groove* wasn't til '88<

I meant '98, obviously. And thanks, Keith. Though I still want to know whether Sir Mix a Lot ever made any albums where all the songs were as amazing as "My Hooptie" or "Posse on Broadway" or "Cake Boy" (if that's what his song about cake boys was called; I forget.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:36 (twenty-two years ago)

juve the great -- kind of slept on but very good, the thing i've been listening to most recently, i think.

― cloverlandthug, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Conclusion: the early 90s is mad slept on.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:38 (twenty-two years ago)

'91-'95 were my rock en espanol years, so I may have been out it from a hip-hop standpoint. I definitely doubt I'd like those 2pac or KRS or Tribe Called Qwest albums much, though, since those people have always bored me. The Beatnuts and Redman and the Coup? More likely.

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

No problem, Chuck. Anything I can do to make sure the legacy of "I Missed the Bus" ("and that is something I will never ever ever do again") lives on.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, Spiral Walls Containing Autumns of Light came out in 1992. I forgot about that one. It's in my all-time top ten albums to take to Mars with me once Dubya gives me the go ahead.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i think you may be right about the early 90's being slept on. i blame Dre.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:45 (twenty-two years ago)

But even more likely (you think I'm kidding, but I'm not) is that there were countless great Miami Bass LPs during the time period that were really really REALLY slept on. Not to mention way influential in that they collectively predicted the future of music (= right now, crunk crunk crunk crunk crunk Timbaland Neptunes) almost as much as Mantronix and the Jonzun Crew combined. Which is a lot.

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:46 (twenty-two years ago)

2003 was a good year for albums, i think. if you made a list of albums that were big. da unbreakables, beg for mercy, philadelphia freeway, mississippi, trap muzik, kings of crunk, bella mafia, from me to u, black album, street dreams, dsgb, big money heavyweight, the missy album, those are all pretty hot. i can't really compare it to the late eighties or early 90s but that seems like a good list. it was a great year.

― cloverlandthug, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:47 (twenty-two years ago)

and J Beez Wit The Remedy came out in 1993. that's also going in my rocket ship. see, i was listening to rap, it was just a little nutso is all.

oh, heck, i never stopped listening to miami bass, no matter what year it was.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, Spiral Walls Containing Autumns of Light came out in 1992. I forgot about that one. It's in my all-time top ten albums to take to Mars with me once Dubya gives me the go ahead.

:-)

But even more likely (you think I'm kidding, but I'm not) is that there were countless great Miami Bass LPs during the time period that were really really REALLY slept on.

Based on the stuff I've heard courtesy of Mr. Donut B, Chuck is OTM beyond all description.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

what's the best album to come out so far this year? i will go buy it tomorrow.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd be really interested in hearing this, actually.

But you gotta promise not to sleep on Organized Konfusion and Digable Planets.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Buck 65

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i've never heard black moon.were they great or just good?

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:58 (twenty-two years ago)

― sym (shmuel), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I think they're great. Beatminerz production is ace. Check out the "I Got Cha Open (Remix)", which is fantastic.

"Enta Da Stage" is their classic. Just Blaze sites it and "Dah Shinin'" by Smif-N-Wessun as his favorite hip hop albums and biggest influences.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:01 (twenty-two years ago)

The Nappy Roots album is great and hasn't been mentioned yet. I've also heard good things about some skinny 18 year old from London.

― sym (shmuel), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:03 (twenty-two years ago)

djdee2005, you are aware that ILx is sort of an alternate universe and that most hip-hop fiends jock the early '90s like there was no tomorrow, right?

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd say that most hip hop headz today my age to even five years older than me already think this way w/ regards to hip hop history. (i'm 20).

M Matos - yes.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

just making sure ;-)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:07 (twenty-two years ago)

It's cool! I meant slept on (on ILX) < subtext.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember some piece of revisionist history in the Source arguing that 1994, not 1988, was the true Great Year of hip-hop. They kind of cheated by using albums from 1993 to make their point, but it was convincing. Tho IMO, early 90s hip-hop> pre 90s hip-hop anyways.
I'd say that most hip hop headz today my age to even five years older than me already think this way w/ regards to hip hop history. (i'm 20).

Yeah, I guess the source was arguing with headz in their 30s who thought Black Planet was the last good hip-hop album.

― sym (shmuel), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw that and it made me wonder, Why are they bothering, since most of those people probably aren't buying The Source to begin with.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, The Source makes you wonder a lot of things.

― sym (shmuel), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:14 (twenty-two years ago)

They don't even try to be surruptitious with the corruption....

Rolling Stone does a better job keeping it on the dL.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i think a good portion of source readers are those 30 year old public enemy people. that's who edits and writes it, really, and there are a couple articles and interviews per month for them. who else is interested in krs-one?

― cloverlandthug, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:18 (twenty-two years ago)

djdee2005,

I love that early '90s period. I own half the albums you listed. It's certainly my golden age of hip-hop.

It was the P-Diddy, bling-bling thing that completely turned me off of hip-hop, and I'm only just now starting to buy hip-hop again.

There's a nice scapegoat for the shift to singles in hip-hop: Puff Daddy. Please let me forget those horrid singles from the mid to late '90s. And that dance...

― Debito (Debito), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I totally didn't even list any de la soul, even though "Buhloone Mindstate" is one of my favorite albums.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Buhloone Mindstate is saddly underrated

― Debito (Debito), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Count me in amongst those who consider '89-'94 the peak years for hip-hop, though I get bored hearing new crews regurgitate it. (And yeah, '98-present is in second place)

"Hypnotize" redeems Combs IMO. That and "Bad Boy 4 Life", which is compellingly fucked-up/catchy and the kind of sound underground MOR '94-style cats should start rhyming over.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I've been pretty lenient on P Diddy. I think "Victory," despite the obv. sample choice (how many times do you say that about diddy? a lot, thats how many) was successful in its bombastic awesomeness. Biggie came correct fo sho.

"Perform like mike/choose one tyson, jackson, jordan..."

I think that's the line.

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

everything pre-, maybe, 1995 does not sound nice at all to me. i like nas a lot and big and de la soul. but i don't own any hip-hop albums made before 1995 (except by nas [1] and big [1] and de la soul [2]) and i basically know nothing about it.

― cloverlandthug, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I donno what to say other than that I think you're missing out!

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

nobody's mentioned Killer Mike's Monster!

― T. Weiss (Timmy), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 06:42 (twenty-two years ago)

if you need to get one from 2003: Viktor Vaughn - Vaudeville Villain

― paulhw (paulhw), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Just because it sounds so fresh next to all the good commercial stuff thats been so huge over the past couple years:

CANIBUS - Rip The Jacker

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Have not many people heard "Rip The Jacker" or does everyone just hate Canibus past the point of no return now??

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

King Geedorah seconded.

Did Beans's Tomorrow Right Now come out in 2003? If so, that's my nomination. If not, see above for alternative...

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

>>what's the best album to come out so far this year? i will go buy it tomorrow.<<

Best hip-hop album? The new one by Clouddead, maybe? Which I bet you'd like a lot, Scott, and I have a feeling a lot of people on here would hate. In fact, maybe *I* should hate it, since my main problem with so much of the late '80s/early '90s stuff above is how that still strikes me as a time when hip-hop really forgot its roots in disco, so anything that was too danceable was dismissed as "pop" by afficianaados or whatever (or it just stayed in Miami). And Clouddead may not have any use for beats at all; it's just background noise. But it's sorta like Dalek or Techno Animal -- WEIRD background noise!

The best 2004 albums I've heard in general are Kenny Chesney's *When the Sun Goes Down* and *The Monster Records Seventies Sampler,* probably followed in some order or other by Chromeo, Hold Steady, Lving Things, and the Mekons' *Punk Rock.* None of which much qualify as hip-hop, I don't think. Though the Hold Steady guy (aka the former Lifter Puller guy) does talk rather than singing, if that counts.

(Then again, you could count Dizzie Rascal or Buck 65 as 2004 albums if you didn't already count them as 2003 albums, and they're quite possibly better than any of the above. In fact, since I didn't vote for Dizzie last year, maybe I will this year. Who the heck knows?)

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

>>it's sorta like Dalek or Techno Animal -- WEIRD background noise!<<

And beautiful, too. Sometimes.

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe i'll vote for Buck 65 this year then! i'll have to see if i'm still playing it all year. i did enjoy it a lot, but i don't play it that much. okay, Clouddead it is then. If there were rapping on that Old Bombs album that would probably be my favorite rap album of 2003. But there isn't. so it isn't.I really want to hear that Hold Steady. Is it as good as Lifter Puller?

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I would say...no. Not sure how much I can elaborate on that after listening to the album all the way through three times this weekend, but as good as most of the songs are, I still get the idea the band isn't as memorable or the guy's wheels are shtuck in his shtick in a way or, or...something. In other words, I don't think this is as good as the two Lifter Puller albums (incl. the double CD best of thing) or one Lifter Puller EP I own. In fact, I'm pretty sure one of the songs (the second one?) WAS an old Lifter Puller song. And my kids can't stand the guy's monotone, for what it's worth (but then, they don't like Buck 65's monotone too much, either.) Still, a good album. My favorite song is the first one, I think, where he starts out with this (often wrong) decade by decade history lesson. And the one about "Only the Good Die Young" and "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" is better than the new Kenny Chesney song about "Only the Good Die Young" and "Jack and Diane" and "Rockin' Me" by Steve Miller. Kenny does more convincing Springsteen imitations in general, probably, but Hold Steady have more specific words. I guess the main thing is that Kenny is a better singer, and he has a better band. Um...what was the question again? I'd love to know Michaelangelo Matos's opinion....

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm sure Matos loves it to pieces cuz he's a fanatic. and so is john mountaingoat, and nate patrin too, i think. maybe there was already a thread? i'd still like to hear it even if it's not lifter puller quality. that guy intrigues me.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, there have been a couple of threads I think -- knowing nothing about Lifter Puller or its associated bands I just sort of observe from the sidelines and ponder.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Jesus, was Killer Mike '03? How could we all forget? It just seems like it's been out for a long time (I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing).

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

a time when hip-hop really forgot its roots in disco, so anything that was too danceable was dismissed as "pop" by afficianaados or whatever

Just because a genre moves away from disco doesn't mean it loses danceability. Many younger folks who missed disco the first time around and didn't grow up around much house/techno probably find it a lot easier to move their bodies to hip-hop than to disco.

― Clarke B., Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, it's not like hip-hop was embracing much techno or house in the early '90s either (at least after "hip house" ended, and again, except in and around Miami), was it? And I know, I know, that's not what you claimed it was doing, and of course I'm not claiming that it HAS to embrace disco. Lots of great hip-hop DOESN'T embrace disco, though the best of it sure seems to, somehow. And just because lots of people like it when it doesn't embrace disco doesn't mean it's any GOOD then; lots of people like (and dance to) bad music, right? (And distinguishing between techno and house and disco is silly, in a lot of ways, anyway, since lots of techno and house IS disco, and by disco I mean Kraftwerk based stuff, not just Chic based stuff -- in fact, it was the Kraftwerky electrobeats that disappeared off most of the hiphop map in the early '90s, near as I can tell.) My point is more that music which DID contain disco (L'Trimm, for instance) was suddenly determied to be too cheesy or too pop or unnutritious and therefore somehow NOT hip-hop, even if it did the things that hip-hop had been doing since the beginning. And with people like Rakim and Public Enemy, hip-hop really started to act like it was this Major Imporatant Art Music of Complexity and Big Statements, just like what happened to rock when prog-rock happened. So it slowed down and lost lots of its silliness and lots of its freedom. Which made it worse.

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

(Which is nothing against Rakim and P.E., per se', both of whom I like -- but then again, I like the Doors and Yes and shit like that, too. I just don't think they were as great as Mitch Ryder, you know?)

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

(This is probably the 500th time I've made these arguments in my life, though -- including several times on this board -- so maybe I should just shut up about it now and see what everybody else says.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

(But I mean, hippies "danced" to the Grateful Dead, too, right? Which is fine. But it doesn't make them better dance music than the Supremes.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

The Chingy album is very pleasant.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

No, it fucking isn't.

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

whateva

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

The Chingy album is very pleasant. And you can dance to it. Or at least i have.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

dancing to something doesn't mean that it's good.
being 'pleasant' doesn't mean an album should be on a list of allegedly 'great' albums.
chingy raps like it's his senior project in a high school for the gifted arts. he got a B+, teacher didn't like all the parts where he called himself a pimp.

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

i said you CAN dance to it and that it was pleasant. not great. and no, you are right, that doesn't mean that it's good.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

The Chingy album is in fact less a chore to get through than *The Black Album,* and it may even have better high points as well; a toss up, I'd say. Which just goes to show that rapping like it's a senior high school project is not the kiss of death for him or anybody else.

― chuck, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

but that still doesn't mean that Chingy OR Jay-Z did anything like the best record of last year, or in the top 5.
I sold Chingy's record, and all I think about Jay-Z is that Naomi Campbell looks pretty hot in the video.

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

You know, I've got reservations about the somewhat goody-goody blandness (at least compared to, say, Ying Yang Twins) of both of their albums, but I have to say I still think it's kind of odd that nobody on this thread (including me until now) has mentioned either Lyrics Born or Lifesavas -- two more acts who put out more playable LPs last year than Jay-Z, Missy, Atmosphere, Budden, Chingy, Freeway, or Ludacris. (Are they hated on ILM for being "underground" too? Or is it just that hardly anybody has heard them?) (McEnroe's album was pretty decent too; but as a white guy from Vancouver, he SEEMS really obscure; Lifesavas and Lyrics Born seem less so to me. Am I wrong?)

― chuck, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Jay-Z's album was album of the year. I think time will prove that it is one of the best hip hop albums of this era. But I could be wrong, you know.

― djdee2005, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't mean to post right then...but what I was getting at was that I think VV and HOPE by the Non-Prophets are great albums and underground...I think Diverse's album was slept on HARDCORE and that "Ain't Right" is probably my favorite song from this year...I need to hear the Lyrics Born and Lifesavas albums tho.

― djdee2005, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

chuck I think that everyone is EXACTLY afraid to like any of these underground records on this site anymore, because of ridicule. look what they did to poor Nate D.

on the other hand I like one crunk record of 2003 more than Lyrics Born's record which I like a lot, and I am not all that interested in a pro-life anti-abortion group out of Portland.

― Begs2Differ, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

no one here is afraid to like anything.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I meant to say "like...on this site anymore," like admit to liking it, or something. I'm probably wrong.

― Begs2Differ, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"poor" Nate D?

― Broheems (diamond), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I donno that underground h-h gets shit on all that much...I have plenty of criticisms of some ILXers (joke!) from my first couple days here, but it seems like most of them are against the underground MINDSET - (i.e. mainstream rap sucks) than they are against underground MUSIC. Even Pfork voted for a Madvillian single in their top singles of 2003! (btw, the Madvilliany album, redone, is scheduled for a March release date! A must buy for any hip hop fan.)

― djdee2005, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

>>I am not all that interested in a pro-life anti-abortion group out of Portland.<<

Your choice, of course. But considering how the Sex Pistols' "Bodies" and Graham Parker's "Love Gets You Twisted" were pro-life/anti-abortion songs and Quarterflash and Nu Shooz were from Portland, maybe it makes sense to keep an open mind about such things.

>>the Hold Steady guy (aka the former Lifter Puller guy) does talk rather than singing, if that counts.<<

Plus, Lifter Puller's line about "she kisses like she already came" is quoted (and attributed to Lifter Puller) on Atmosphere's album, which also has a song CALLED "Lifter Puller," but which isn't as good as the Hold Steady LP. So maybe Hold Steady should count after all.

― chuck, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

fair point, I was under the impression that they're an issue group, all Christian-let's-all-hug-each-other and stuff, maybe there's more to Lifesavas than that

and I dont hate Portland I dont I dont hate it I dont

but I have no use for Sex Pistols' "issue" songs, and Graham Parker is the indie-cred Elvis Costello and always bored me kind of, I tried with him, no dice

― Begs2Differ, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Amazed nobody's mentioned It Takes A Nation Of Tossers!

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"Sex Pistols issue songs"???? What the heck does THAT mean? "She was a girl from Birmingham/she just had an abortion/she was a case of insanity/her name was Pauline she lived in a tree/?" "Fuck this and fuck that/fuck it all and fuck the fucking brat/She don't wanna baby that looks like that/I don't wanna baby that looks like that"? Do you really think that's all that different from their "NON-issue" songs? Whatever THOSE would be? (Not even the Eddie Cochran covers!)

I admit that Lifesavas and Graham Parker don't have any lyrics that exciting, but hey, neither do Rakim or Biggie or Chuck D or fucking Jay-Z. And I don't know what "indie cred Elvis Costello" means, since I had no idea any indie fans were old enough to even know who Graham Parker is!!! Actually he's the pub-rock-cred Jo Jo Zep and the Falcolns (or Sports or Billy Falcoln or somebody), and his last good album came out 25 years ago. (But "You Can't Be Too Strong" was his great stupid anti-choice song, not the one I mentioned above. My bad.)

Actually, Tim McGraw's and Kid Rock's abortion songs are better than Lifesavas one, too (which I actually can't remember, off the top of my head.) But I don't think King's X's is, for whatever that's worth.

― chuck, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

look what they did to poor Nate D

Those monsters...

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I love Jo Jo Zep and the Falcons! Screaming Targets on cassette was the shit!
and I meant "songs where the Sex Pistols try to take a stand on an issue" as opposed to "songs where the Sex Pistols just crap all over everything".
so if Lifesavas aren't as interesting as the Sex Pistols, why again would I want to care about them?

― Begs2Differ, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The Lifesavas album really is totally fucking listenable goodness. I can't believe I didn't hear it until after I saw them live and bought it from Versatile directly and listened to it on the way home. It's very friggin solid. The Lyrics Born album is really good too, but some of the choruses on there kinda rub on my nerves (such as "Stop Complaining", which is otherwise a fucking gnarly jam). He's such a ridiculously good and versatile MC though that the bland hooks aren't really much of a distraction. The song "The Last Trumpet" on there (w/ Lateef) is one of the greatest songs I've ever heard or ever will hear.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

well okay then.

― Begs2Differ, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

My current favorites on the Lifesavas album = "Hellohihey", "Resist" (which SMOKED live), and "Emerge".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Begs2: If you only care about music as interesting as the Pistols, why do you care about ANY hip-hop after, like, 1981?? (Except for, I dunno, Slim Shady, who IS Johnny Rotten. Or whoever.) (Not to mention why do you care about Jo Jo Zep and the Falcolns?? Lifesavas are more interesting than *them*, for sure!) And what about songs where the Sex Pistols CRAP ALL OVER ISSUES? I mean, do they have any "issue songs" where they *don't*? And what counts as an "issue" anyway? How do you crap all over everything WITHOUT making an issue of it????

― chuck, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

How do you crap all over everything WITHOUT making an issue of it????

I think my performance on this forum proves your point!
Actually, I don't really like the Sex Pistols all that much.
Maybe Jo Jo Zep is better in my memory than they were in reality. Me and my friend Joe used to play that on his boombox when we ran around trying to impress chicks, along with London Calling and Joe's blue cassette of Metallic K.O. Teenage girls did not dig Iggy.

― Begs2Differ, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I love the idea of the Sex Pistols as an advocacy band. I think I love the idea of Ludacris as an advocacy artist too. ("The Ludacris Foundation" -- gr8est story of the past two years!?)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha ha

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

The Too $hort Center for Illiteracy

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

He graduated from pimp university, class of 86.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

"poor" Nate D?

Not anymore; I got a platinum bidet and a Gremlin on 24s

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 29 January 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

(McEnroe's album was pretty decent too; but as a white guy from Vancouver, he SEEMS really obscure; Lifesavas and Lyrics Born seem less so to me. Am I wrong?)
McEnroe's great! McEnroe > Lifesavas > Lyrics Born

But then I am just a white kid from the 'Couv.

― sym (shmuel), Thursday, 29 January 2004 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

short like troll / mean in soul / that's how all my gremlinz roll

― Begs2Differ, Thursday, 29 January 2004 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: DMX vs. AMX

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 29 January 2004 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

isn't mcenroe from winnipeg?? i hope he didn't move to vancouver, even if he sucks. is he going to produce the new swollen members?

― cloverlandthug, Thursday, 29 January 2004 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Reppin' the Antipodes:

Hilltop Hoods, "The Calling"
Mareko, "White Sunday"
Scribe, "The Crusader"
Curse Ov Dialect, "Lost in the Real Sky"

― OCP (OCP), Saturday, 31 January 2004 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

or should that be rep'in? whatever.

...

― OCP (OCP), Saturday, 31 January 2004 04:50 (twenty-two years ago)

usa: gang starr (despite all haterz)

uk: taskforce. [have i missed a thread on them ?]

― fletcher dexter, Saturday, 31 January 2004 10:09 (twenty-two years ago)

just searched ilx and a few snippets of threads - mainly it appears tim h has plenty to say about taskforce. i feel somewhat happier now...

― fletcher dexter, Saturday, 31 January 2004 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

GET RICH OR DIE TRYING

― scg, Friday, 16 April 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I believe I mentioned that.

― djdee2005, Friday, 16 April 2004 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

Name one great hip hop album from 2005

― Adam In Real Life (nordicskilla), Monday, 22 August 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

Common - BE
Lyrics Born - Same Shit, Different Day
Felt 2, A Tribute to Lisa Bonet
Blueprint - 1988
Danger Doom

yours truly, a corny rap indie fuxor

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Monday, 22 August 2005 21:05 (twenty years ago)

googlit: Danger Doom AND Dangerdoom AND Dangerdoom AND Adult Swim

― M. V. (M.V.), Monday, 22 August 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

danger doom is a real let down. its fuxing boring. doom on cruise control.

― okokok, Monday, 22 August 2005 21:23 (twenty years ago)

for me lyrics are sooo important and for that reason
a lot of rap does not appeal. Common, jayz dont appeal to
me for that reason.
jurassic 5 and Blackalicious are where its at
great beats and deep meaningful lyrics

― banksy, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 07:23 (twenty years ago)

what is this 'hip hop is best when it embraces disco' shite? hip hop relied on and embraced funk and soul a lot more than disco, and there were plenty of danceable funk and soul tunes. hip hop was related to disco in the early days, but a lot of hip hoppers didnt like it, or what it became cos it was softer than hard funk. lot of weird revisionism going on in this post. face it, most people dont like pre-96 rap cos its musically harder, and basically much more rooted in soul and funk then the poppier strands that have followed since. hip hop has gotten quite a bit soft, musically.

yeah you have people like lil jon, bonecrusher and their ilk, but thats not a huge portion of modern day popular hip hop.

― okokoko, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 10:59 (twenty years ago)

no dis to c. eddy, but hip hop didnt get all prog rock in the late 80s, if anything that was its late 60s phase, not its bloated epic 70s prog phase. and the idea that it got all self important back then is kinda ridiculous. that type of comment sounds like the type of reviews PE got with their first album when idiot reviewers were talking about how they should stick to party rhymes, nothing more.

― okokoko, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 11:15 (twenty years ago)

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