sun kil moon?

awesome

y'mean the new one, or just in general?

Sun Kil Moon S/D?

That thread is weird. I've never seen him play a dud show.

Also: Sun Kil Moon -- April

No love for Admiral Fell Promises? That album is just gorgeous.

Its good, but less gorgeous than the two preceeding it.

I'm really enjoying the sound of nylon strings, and the classical and spanish influences on this album. It's a little shift in direction for him.

Alesund is so gorgeous.

lol at song titles for next record due out in May:

I Know It’s Pathetic But That Was The Greatest Night Of My Life
Sunshine In Chicago
The Moderately Talented Yet Attractive Young Woman vs. The Exceptionally Talented Yet Not So Attractive Middle Aged Man
That Bird Has A Broken Wing
Elaine
The Winery
Young Love
Song For Richard Collopy
Among The Leaves
Red Poison
Track Number 8
Not Much Rhymes With Everything’s Awesome At All Times
King Fish
Lonely Mountain
UK Blues
UK Blues 2
Black Kite

so what do you guys think of the desertshore record?? i like it. it's like "old ramon" but less lugubrious

Those titles read like an article in The Onion!

Lugubrious, good word that. Saying something from Mark Kozelak is "less lugubrious" is like saying knife wounds hurt less than gunshot wounds, though.

yeah. turtle pond and mercy are not exactly "party songs"

i think (hope) kozelek is taking the piss with those titles -- or at least the three longest ones

Skip to 5:40 to hear / watch Sunshine In Chicago...

http://www.southernsouls.ca/mark-kozelek/

"Sunshine in Chicago makes me feel pretty sad / My band played here a lot in the nineties when we had / lots of female fans and fuck they all were cute / now I just sign posters for guys in tennis shoes"

http://pitchfork.com/features/interviews/8845-mark-kozelek/

This one might be something else from grumpy ol' Mark.

sounds like the record AFTER this one might be all time great

I'd like to hear the full-band again sometime, but it seems he has to grow tired of the nylon strings first. Song weren't bad, but I'm only semi-excited for this one, though I'm a big fan.

i like this album a whole lot, certainly more than admiral fells promises; the immediacy and almost tossed-off-edness of the lyrics is a nice change. it's a much more eitzel-like record (long song titles, more tongue in cheek).

out today. some creepy lyrics!

what about the new one, "among the leaves"? the cover art is horrid but the samples sound good.

it's pretty okay. mark kozelek getting more literally creepy in his lyrics was a development i could've done without

I love it. "Young Love" was one of my favorite songs of the year.

I dig it. It's definitely a change from his previous stuff... At least lyrically. He's much more matter of fact, self-deprecating and just plain assholish but it ends up being affecting as an album. Esp if you couple it w his new one w jimmy Lavalle

Loving this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHH-pAYaMEI

Lovely stuff.

normally i'm not a fan of lyrics that read like you've flipped open someone's daily-diary. a lot of teenpop lyrics read like this; it's okay, but i kinda think it's a little "artless," maybe? but mark kozelek absolutely, positively does this lyrical-style right.

lol i really really can't follow him down this road unfortunately, though i love the sax solo

his voice has deteriorated terribly

i can dig the destroyer-style arrangement, but i'm not into the rapping that he's doing or whatever. maybe i'm boring but i prefer serious koz to the post-admiral fell promises goofy koz.

he's pretty goofy on old ramon but it's a goofy i can get with

more songs about your cat

He has a knack for punctuating his new, more relaxed style with really devastating lines and songs here and there - or merging the style with super depressing vignettes (see Perils From the Sea).

Overall, I agree with monotony but I do enjoy this style too.

But yeah, it's like he became so fascinated with the serious guitar virtuoso/Andres Segovia and intricate/delicate melody approach on Admiral Fell Promises that he burnt himself out and has been doing something with an opposite vibe and approach since then.

And while I do enjoy this stuff so much (and it is often WAY more captivating live) either way, when I come back to AFP I'm knocked off my feet in comparison.

Yup, this is pretty far from the stunning brilliance of the first Sun Kil Moon album. Props for following his muse and all...

what is wrong with yall this shit owns

It's great! It just is much less great than the AFP style to me.

(Just noticed, having ordered from Caldo Verde for the 2 disc version and bonus live album, that Amazon are claiming to be stocking the limited 2-disc version in the UK, for a tenner anyway).

i still hate nils cline

and nels lofgren too

For an admitted fanboy of RHP, I had a fairly pronounced dropoff with Koz circa the first SKM record. Sadly, this doesn't restore much interest for me.

somehow the wonder of life prevails

Admiral Fell Promises may be a top 3 favorite album ever (so far) for me. Young Love was my favorite song off of the last one, which is arguably closest to AFP. I'm sure I'll enjoy the new one a lot but I don't think it'll compare ultimately.

he doesn't practice as much as nils cline.

lmao what the heck

this kind of rules though

i still hate nils cline

oh, c'mon. he's awesome, especially when deployed as the secret-weapon in someone's pop or rock act (e.g., wilco and, on their last album, the equally-awesome tinariwen).

I don't think it was intended as a personal attack, rather just a (misspelled) lyrical reference.

i can play circles around jay farrar

I don't know, I think this is his best album by a distance. Songwriting is just incredible. So much detail to get lost in. Anyone know how much of his writing is based on actual people vs. invented characters?

this article makes it sound like a lot of it comes from actual people

It's a bit inconsistent but some of it is utterly devastating (perhaps helped along by a hard-going week at work and a bottle of red). Found the bit about 4ad's Ivo strangely emotional for some reason.

Man, brothers just tears my heart out

Ian Cohen forcing me to order that vinyl (whenever it becomes available) even more promptly. That stuff sells out quick enough as it is.

In case you don't know what I mean: http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/18860-sun-kil-moon-benji/

solid lol, from the interview

I can see how some of these incidents would sound odd, to say, a British journalist, or someone who is very young, or sheltered...

awesome

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, March 23, 2008 7:02 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

y'mean the new one, or just in general?

― dell, Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:18 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i meant in general

Still true.

this is good but perils from the sea was much more in my wheelhouse songwriting-wise so it feels a bit of a comedown from that

Have you checked out the Kozelek/Desertshore album?

yeah that one's solid too, dude's on a roll lately

'i watched the film the song remains the same' is the highlight so far

lyrics on this are as good as the pfork review etc insist but he's given up on writing vocal melodies half the time which irks me a bit since that was a strength of April and last year's records

this got a 9.2 omg

i dunno. i like kozelek a lot, and a guitar album about the sadness, desperation, regrets, and dignity of aging seems tailor-made for me. but i have a hard time imagining this is better than ghosts of the great highway, and that's after hearing about three or four songs from benji.

^ could not be more otm

like i came here to basically post what you did almost word for word, except insert "one or two" for "three or four"

Who said it's better than Ghosts?

its not better than his past successes, no, but it's also kind of evading comparison by doing something pretty different. his lyrics are more prose than poetry now and he doesn't really aim for catharsis

Who said it's better than Ghosts?

p4k review strongly implied it (and may have actually said it)

Who gives a fuck about pitchfork reviews?

http://i.imgur.com/ds80lOC.png?1?9390

literally no one good point

wait you're saying that pitchforkmedia.com's numerical score isn't an objective and universal indicator of quality?

dammit.

yeah i meant it as yet another criticism about the phenomena known as people/hipsters still fascinated by an album getting a high score from Ian Cohen or whoever from pitchfork.

no offense, Daniel, i know you are not one pf them.

Who gives a fuck about pitchfork reviews?

― nostormo, Monday, February 3, 2014 4:47 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

insound.com does.

I don't care what they give it. I linked it because it means higher sales from what I've seen.

still blown away pfork linked to his yes cover

http://www.dustedmagazine.com/features/836

"A journalist recently compared my playing to Steve Howe’s. It’s taken 15 years for that to happen."

it's the sound of his newer stuff, more than the lyrics (but that, too), that makes me say ghosts of the great highway is better (from what i've heard so far). ghosts has this massive, hypnotizing wall of sound, and a menacing, dangerous undercurrent. the newer stuff -- while very good, don't get me wrong -- sounds smaller, less ambitious, intentionally more slight, and the focus on mundane, everyday subjects in the lyrics reinforces the idea that the songs are smaller. to be fair, that's largely me focusing on the last album, which had some high-points, but sounded really awkward to me at times. maybe it was a transitional album, leading to benji. i'm still excited to hear new kozelek, and this album in particular.

hard to imagine anything will ever equal this song, tho:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKRA7weVyLs

Sorry that
I could never love you back
I could never care enough
In these last days

__________________________

Can't count to
All the lovers I've burned through
So why do I still burn for you
I cannot say

my god, those lyrics still kill.

All true. Though I think the delivery and phrasing is what makes it seem more powerful lyrically. Themes of death should be more crushing but the compositions and conversational approach does make it feel much smaller.

I might suggest that part of the idea is that death IS small, which is one of the reasons it's frightening and devastating. It's here all the time, a bit of a paradox b/c its omnipresence both makes it mundane and possibly, when you think about that, more disturbing. Death is small because we're all small, here one moment and gone the next.

that's interesting, and there's a lot of truth to it. i'm going to think about that when i begin listening to this album.

I'm struggling to think of another rock album in which a comparable number of specific biographical details and banalities are included. You get an incredibly comprehensive picture of who Kozelek is and what he cares about. (I realize that many will not find this notion endearing or interesting.)

I still prefer Perils From the Sea, though.

The idea that *this one* might be his late-career breakout is kind of hilarious, actually. It's a pretty strange album.

It's a pretty strange album.

i've only sampled part of it, but i bet this is right.

I can live with the sky falling out from above
I can live with your scorn, your sourness, your smug
I can live growing old alone if push comes to shove
But I can't live without my mother's love

I can live flying 'round at an impossible pace
I can live with the bad ettiquette that's falling on this place
I can live with anything you've got to throw in my face
But I can't live without my mother's embrace

My mother is seventy five
She's the closest friend I have in my life
Take her from me I'll break down and bawl
And wither away like old leaves in the fall

You can be cruel all you want talk bad on my brothers
Shoot me full of holes and I won't by bothered
Judge me for my ways and my slew of my ex-lovers
But don't ever dare say a bad word 'bout my mother.

When she's gone I'll miss her how slowly she walks
Playing scrabble with the chimes of the grandfather clock
I'll even miss the times that we fought
But mostly I'll miss being able to call her and talk.

I can live without watching the classical fights
I can live without a lover beside me at night
I can live without what you might call a charmed
But I can't live without my mother providing her light

My mother is seventy five
One day she won't be here to hear me cry
When the day comes for her to let go
I'll die off like a lemon tree in the snow
When the day comes for her to leave
I won't have the courage to sort through her things
With my sisters and all our memories
I cannot bear all the pain it will bring.

interesting in its hyper-confessional nature. when it's good, it has the power of neil young's best, most bracing, most direct lyrics.

gonna ruin somebody's day by saying this but when kozelek gets to near-rapping he sounds like the dude from Everclear

you have dishonored the name of "kozelek."

a lyric snippet out of this (otherwise edgy, interesting) richard ramirez song illustrates the highs-and-lows of kozelek's lyrics:

i don't like this gettin' older stuff
having to pee 50 times a day is bad enough
got a nagging prostate and i gotta bad back
when i fuck too much i feel like i'm gonna have a heart attack

so, the overall theme about the scariness and dignity of aging is a good focus for a record, and an artist. and a lot of times, kozelek nails that feeling perfectly. but the laundry-list of ailments feels a little artless and kvetch-y. and trying to squeeze in the extra words in the last line ("i'mgonnahaveaheartattack") makes it awkward.

to some extent, this is over-complaining. the just out-of-sync vocal harmonies and the dark, heavy-sounding guitar lines give the song an evil vibe. and that, i love.

at 53 richard ramirez died; but in 83, he was very much alive
he was the scariest killer in the land
had a pentagram in the center of his hand

kozelek's songs sometimes drip blood, which is a good thing.

gonna ruin somebody's day by saying this but when kozelek gets to near-rapping he sounds like the dude from Everclear

― da croupier, Monday, February 3, 2014 10:08 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol this is pretty otm

It's not just the lyrics that are noteworthy for their oddness. Those backing vocals on "I Love My Dad" for instance are, uh, a choice. I guess. And I could have gone with more Will Oldham and less multitracked Koz.

so, lyrically, here's where sun kil moon is at its best. there's this hazy, hypnotic guitar-driven song, with kozelek singing about loving mundane things, like watching late-night cable and debates over which old pro-boxer was more hated or more loved, and nostalgic things, about behaving like his dad before him. it's wistful, a little sad, a little sweet, and makes me think about what it means to grow older. then, bam.

I buried my first victim
When I was nineteen
Went through her bedroom
And the pockets of her jeans
And found her letters
That said so many things
That really hurt me bad

I never breathed
Her name again
But I like to dream
About what could have been
I never heard her calls again
But I like to dream

now maybe this is a metaphor for kozelek breaking up with a girlfriend. that's a possible reading. but it seems too literal to me for that. and what a swerve. most of his lyrics i love for the reasons appearing above the block-quote, but kozelek has the ability to really surprise.

by the way, setting aside the serial-killer lines, the rest of the song today made me think of how much i miss my maternal grandfather (died when i was 10) and grandmother (died when i was in my 30s), how much i'd give to speak to them, even one more time, again, and how much they'd love my daughter.

I'm loving this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejBfyKd3WSs

Daniel I've had pretty much the exact same feelings about that song. The murder angle is jarring but so well done. And the nostalgic imagery just before it has always grabbed me in the same way.

the live version of "I Love My Dad" on the bonus disc is hilarious

Kozelek - "Do you guys get that reference or not? Edgar Winter was an albino..."

Lone audience member - "woo!"

Kozelek - *annoyed grunt*

Hahaha! Picking this up today at the shop I used to work at.

this album is really fucking good

can't stop listening to this

iiiii haaaaate thissss recorrrrd

lol

why

is the nels cline hating a joke?

What do you have against Nels Cline? This is the second time you’ve brought him up in one of your albums. Has he tried to retaliate? Do you secretly like him?

Honestly, I don’t know anything about him. I saw Wilco live only once, in New Orleans, and on TV once. I decided to name off a bunch of guitarists I liked, in the chorus of “Bramble,” but then thought it would be more dynamic if I named a few I hated. The thing is, I don’t hate anybody. His name just rhymed with whatever came before it, and people laughed. So on Benji, I did it again. I do things twice, sometimes, like how I did “UK Blues” and “UK Blues 2.”

i dont understand why someone would hate this record, unless you dont like mark kozelek's music. and if thats the case, then why the fuck are you listening to it?

I can understand someone loving ghosts and not liking this record

he also mentions Panera Bread twice and his uncle twice on this record

that is fantastic

i have a little trouble reconciling the deep-redneck trash-burning uncle and the presumably exurban panera bread flirting dad. maybe they are from different branches of the family. kozelek cosmology. also this record is great.

I don't know where you're getting "exurban" -- it says elsewhere on the record that he was an eighth grade dropout. Panera Breads are everywhere. You see truckers getting coffee at rest-stop starbucks. I feel like you're speaking from kind of a narrow idea of what a working/middle class family might look like.

i dont understand why someone would hate this record, unless you dont like mark kozelek's music. and if thats the case, then why the fuck are you listening to it?

― everyday sheeple (Michael B), Tuesday, February 18, 2014 11:24 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I can understand someone loving ghosts and not liking this record

― the Norwegians are leaving! (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, February 18, 2014 11:25 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah within the Kozelek world this record is very distinct, even if the MK/Desertshore record was a direct "warm up" that lead to it.

AFP and Benji are so similar on the outside but are so very different in context.

Some people have been pointing out the Newtown song as the weak spot of the album, but I think he does something kind of neat with it that relates to a larger theme of the record. When he talks about the Norway killer, there's a great moment where he says "they didn't really care, but I did (pause) cause I got a lot of friends out there." At first you think "but I did" is a self-righteous thing, but it's actually about his personal connection to the tragedy. In the same way, he writes about Newtown not because he heard it on the news, but because a fan (from Newtown I think) wrote to him and asked him to pray about it, so once that connection was made he felt compelled to do something. It all ties back to the line in Song Remains "whenever anything close to me at all in the world died/ To my heart, forever, it would be tied." Same force that motivates him to write a song for the second cousin he didn't know well, and for his dad's friend who he spent the day with.

he doesn't rap on ghosts

Yeah I totally read that song to drive the concept that we shouldn't let moments of tragedy leave our thoughts even when time has passed or something happy is happening to us personally. As a way to stay grounded? Not necessarily to keep depression perpetual throughout our lives- which a Kozelek non-fan might joke.

can't stop listening to this

― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 18 February 2014 15:20 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Same. So good.

I love the short, descending string melody (mandolin?) in Carissa - it's like he gave her her own "theme" as part of the eulogy.

sry it's nylon string guitar

i tried to listen to this in the shop but somehow i think there is a maximum of kozelek albums you need in your life and i have surpassed it. in the end it is always the first ep and the rollercoaster album i come back to. his vocal delivery on the new one really turns me off. he has completely given up singing, it is not even sprechgesang anymore here. and i am not too interested in his personal stories.

they have panera bread at truck stops?

http://linktown.wcnc.com/biz/panera-bread/amherst/oh/44001/15641266

it's even in ohio. story checks out.

http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/82ec9715-e9d8-44d0-9dab-4491465ef816.jpg

http://www.mightysweet.com/mesohungry/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/03-Panera_Ohio.jpg

is that a picture of heaven?

it is so beautiful.

lol

"Whut the hell is a Panera Bread. I'm hungry, I'mma go keel me a possum"

serves the possum right. they're super-gross.

xp wait is that supposed to be someone from Ohio?

no it's supposed to be someone's ridiculously wrongheaded idea of a "redneck" in the 21st century

ah, i get it now

nels lived in SF for ages I'm surprised he doesn't know anything about him.

i also took the noodly guitar stuff after "i hate nels cline" to be parody

which would require some familiarity

I have no doubt he knows him better than he lets on, but I doubt there's any big story behind it

mark kozelek auditioned for wilco in 2004 when he was beaten in a crossroads-style guitar battle with nels cline

I just figured he was a good figurehead for muso guitarists within his relative musical universe, and also his name fits lyrics well.

It's funny to say "I'm no Nels Cline" because of the particular position Nels Cline occupies. It's better than saying "Yngwie" or something like that.

i work at it every day, and i can bake a mean pumpernickel. but i'm no panera bread.

so "Ben's My Friend" is basically kozelek's remix of "Semi-Charmed Life"

I don't mean this as an insult, but you could basically write "RILY: Eels, Soul Coughing, Everlast" about this record and it wouldn't be wrong

Indie rock fans in being confused about what "rapping" sounds like non-shocker. I mean, I can't help but immediately dismiss any praise or criticism for this record that says Mark is "rapping".

Most of the criticisms of this record are suspiciously just criticisms of the one song they actually heard (Richard Ramirez Died Today of Natural Causes)

i have heard the whole thing and i wish he would write or sing a vocal melody and would edit himself enough so that the syllables of each line didn't spill over bc it's so awkward and diaristic. i don't think this unedited linear and mundane approach really produces the novel apprehension of death or whatever that people seem to be responding to here. for instance on carissa he spends a lot of time outlining his intentions for the song (honor someone he barely knew and engage with the intricacies of her life and death), and imo the song does nothing except outline itself over and over. i'm sure that's what kozelek wants out of his own music at this point but i can't get with it. the songs are unearthly long and are powered by half-composed ideas. it's exhausting.

I think we're both victims of confirmation bias- clearly there are vocal melodies in some cases and vocal melodies are lacking in others for example. I totally agree there isn't as much craft overall and lyrically it's all first-draft-journal-entry but the approach as a whole is really doing a lot for me. Reasons why have been explained upthread better than I would right now.

i have heard the whole thing and i wish he would write or sing a vocal melody and would edit himself enough so that the syllables of each line didn't spill over bc it's so awkward and diaristic. i don't think this unedited linear and mundane approach really produces the novel apprehension of death or whatever that people seem to be responding to here. for instance on carissa he spends a lot of time outlining his intentions for the song (honor someone he barely knew and engage with the intricacies of her life and death), and imo the song does nothing except outline itself over and over. i'm sure that's what kozelek wants out of his own music at this point but i can't get with it. the songs are unearthly long and are powered by half-composed ideas. it's exhausting.

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, February 20, 2014 4:28 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't understand what you mean by "sing a vocal melody" -- how are the vocal melodies of these songs not "vocal melodies"? I realize some songs, like Carissa, are more "talky" but otoh there's "I Can't Live Without My Mother's Love" or "Micheline." As for "editing" himself, I just think you are mistaking artless style for artlessness, because if you listen to the songs enough they seem pretty well thought out individually and as an album.

I can't really argue with you about Carissa because the things you don't like about it are part of what I like about it. But I do think you're missing some of what's going on in the song, in that (1) the song is very much about why he wants to go back to Ohio and go to the funeral and find out more about Carissa and narrated at the point when he hasn't done so yet, and (2) there are some subtle details about her that tell you a lot, like the fact that she got pregnant at 15 and was an RN at 35 -- a wild child who managed to turn her life around as a (presumably) single parent.

Which Soul Coughing album sounded like this? Must be El Oso b/c I never heard that one.

that could be it--el oso is from 98 which is right about when panera bread began their national expansion from their humble beginnings as a st louis-area bakery chain so that checks out (SOURCE: WIKIPEDIA)

"El Oso" is spanish for "The Bread Bowl"

I think the distinction about whether you like this album or not as a Kozelek fan is whether you interpret this record as him trying something new vs. him not trying at all.

Indie rock fans in being confused about what "rapping" sounds like non-shocker. I mean, I can't help but immediately dismiss any praise or criticism for this record that says Mark is "rapping".

― an enormous bolus of flatulence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, February 20, 2014 4:10 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

Huh, so even though I had a Red House Painters CD back in the day, somehow I never got around to checking out Sun Kil Moon. This Ghosts of the Great Highway is pretty great, isn't it?

yes it's very good. april is pretty good too, and admiral fells promises has it's good points.

I had basically never checked out this dude at all so when I got sick of having Benji on repeat I checked out Ghosts of the Great Highway, and yeah it's good. Carry Me Ohio is an earworm. Kind of struck by how different Benji is from that one and his other stuff though.

This Ghosts of the Great Highway is pretty great, isn't it?

― o. nate, Monday, February 24, 2014

if i had to make a short list of landmark rock albums of the 00s, ghosts would be on it.

Well, I've drunk enough red that "Benji" sounds incredibly touching (for all its faults).

For reasons that I can't quite fathom, I love that Ivo is acknowledged in song.

There is such a mis-match (and such a fine line) between Kozelek-the-arsehole and Kozelek-who-writes-the-most-beautiful-of-songs, isn't there?

yes, there is. what red are you pairing with Benji?

The whole thing sounds like he went with the first draft of every song. That approach works really well with the subject manner throughout the record.

I remember reading The Underpainter by Jane Urquhart and discussing how artists who paint the most beautiful and touching things are often seen as being sensitive, caring people. In reality, they are just as human as anyone else and at times far worse human beings. It's their craziness that helps them create such beauty to begin with.

I think it applies to musicians, as well.

But what do I know.

Also, some tracks off his new album really resonated with me.

Various xp's

Yes, I was giving it another listen this morning and most songs cut off abruptly. There is no 'outro', so to speak. But he does this enough to make me believe he's doing it on purpose. Almost like a musical prosody on that album.

Query to all: Since I don't know Kozelek, I can't vouch for the authenticity of the songs. Suppose it turned out that most every event and person referenced in these songs were fictitious. Would your esteem for Kozelek as songwriter grow or diminish? Would your opinion of the songs themselves change?

neither grow nor diminish, and no, my opinion would not change. I had actually had that thought - "What if it turns out he made all this shit up."

FWIW, someone linked me to a news article about the burning death of a Carissa in a small ohio township in the right region that I'm pretty sure is his cousin.

we confirmed that the Panera Bread exists if the Panera Bread exists it all must exist he ate blue crab cakes

this panera bread is my body/ this crab juice is my blood

*lifts up Panera bread to the sound of multiple overlaid nylon string guitar arpeggios*

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/sound-check/Content?oid=18915321

"They were good people". Sort of sums up this record's themes, I feel.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/234-sun-kil-moon-benji-glossary/

^ made me chuckle.

note comment after stranger interview:

How in god's name have you not yet written about the absolute catastrophe of his show at the neptune? one would think he was doing a tony clifton routine.
Posted by bdrlgion on February 25, 2014 at 12:51 PM

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/soundposts/2014/02/22/sunkilmoonlive/

"Misreading his frustration as contempt, some showgoers started heckling Kozelek, casting a pall of negativity over a night meant to celebrate the 47-year-old artist’s current renaissance."

I wonder what specifically happened/was said.

Both on Mark's show of frustration and the resulting heckling. Curious.

Query to all: Since I don't know Kozelek, I can't vouch for the authenticity of the songs. Suppose it turned out that most every event and person referenced in these songs were fictitious. Would your esteem for Kozelek as songwriter grow or diminish? Would your opinion of the songs themselves change?

But...it seems pretty clear that the people aren't fictitious. The Carissa thing, the Jim Case thing, the existence of Ben Gibbard, these things are internet verifiable. I mean, I guess I'll just have to take his word on the experiences he lays out in Dogs and the story about the albino on the dad song, and things like that.

In any case, I never understand hypotheticals like this, questions along the line "What if this the reality of this record were something totally different? Would you like this record as much?" I see it most frequently in "If X were by a new artist, you wouldn't like it at all!" or alternately, "If a new artist had put out X, it would be called album of the year!"

In any case, I might even like the record more if the whole thing was made up

If the whole thing were made up, I would regard it as a Nabokovian tour de force instead of a Carveresque tour de force.

why would the sun kil the moon anyway?

In any case, I never understand hypotheticals like this, questions along the line "What if this the reality of this record were something totally different? Would you like this record as much?" I see it most frequently in "If X were by a new artist, you wouldn't like it at all!" or alternately, "If a new artist had put out X, it would be called album of the year!"

Well it's not necessarily equivalent to other questions like that. In this case, this record is extremely raw and sounds like the lyric/instrumental compositions weren't fussed over at all, at least compared to past efforts. So you have the striking unfiltered directness of the stories doing all of the heavy lifting. If the stories were all fiction I think there would have been more criticism regarding the comparatively unfinished/first-draft sounding compositions.

I wonder what specifically happened/was said.

― Evan, Friday, February 28, 2014 11:32 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Both on Mark's show of frustration and the resulting heckling. Curious.

― Evan, Friday, February 28, 2014 11:33 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

“I’m spilling my guts up here and you guys won’t shut up.”

Kozelek's use of "you guys" = further evidence for his Ohio roots

you guys

I don't see what the difference is between weaving a great song out of "true" facts and weaving a great song out of false ones.

one great song is composed of "true" facts while the other is composed of false ones.

“I’m spilling my guts up here and you guys won’t shut up.”

True, just suspecting there's more to it. The article implies tension first started between staff and Mark, then between audience and Mark, then that quote happened...

http://theabbeycatering.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/crab-cakes-cl-1665282-l.jpg

the stage was set with a table and a chair. he walked out and tucked a napkin into his shirt. he ate some blue crab cakes. he put his fork down and turned to the crowd:

“I’m spilling my guts up here and you guys won’t shut up.”

that sounds like almost every show I've seen Kozelek do w/out RHP, which is one of the reasons I don't go see him anymore. It also sounds like half the shows Eitzel used to play, but surprisingly he never acts like that (in SF anyway) anymore. It's like they've switched places.

the crowd is always loud? he is correct in yelling at them.

Nah just saw him in October and it was nothing like that. Except for the asshole who kept belting "WOOO!!" during a few songs...

xp

i saw kozelek a couple years ago w/out really knowing much about his music and he was extremely prickly from that start. sometime in the middle of the show he started monologuing about how being on the road is hard and lonely, i guess as an excuse for his mood. then someone in the audience with outstanding comic timing was like "why don't you write a song about it?"

sometimes he's not being as serious as people think, too, I suspect. like, he's acting like a dick but it doesn't mean he's really in a terrible mood. at any rate, I don't like seeing him without a band enough to bother these days. Glad I went to RHP shows when I could.

xpost @Evan

I don't think the "striking, unfiltered directness" "doing all of the heavy lifting" comes only from the lyrics. The sound of his voice and the way he's delivering these lyrics are doing as much lifting as any lyric on this record.

I mean, I'm sure there are some people who like this because it's "real," but I think a lot of people find it compelling because it's full of resonant little details, and the vocal delivery that is part conversational and part super-sincerity adds up to a pretty interesting mix.

His delivery is great yeah, but I really believe this record is being carried by the stories that are that much more moving because they're real, and that he is telling real stories with brutal honesty. Otherwise, the song-craft is way way less refined than on previous albums. But those elements work together because the whole thing sounds like him getting everything off his chest without fussing too long over how.

I understand what Evan is saying, but it can also be argued that Koz is using the kind of 'art of raw truth' and detail and confessional poetry and stuff to bring on some emotion on the listener's part. I mean, it's not as black and white as some are explaining it here.

I guess if he were just using it as an artifice, people might get offended (I don't know why, to be honest), or feel he is being too disingenuous, but I don't mind it at all.

I love the tunes for what they are. They are raw and direct. Whether the stories are real or not, he seems to want to do this to evoke specific emotions by maybe pretending the stories are true--but that is part of his art. It's like seeing a photo or a movie of someone burning, while it being just an act. I don't think less of the artist because the person wasn't really burning. I let the art piece take me for the ride it wants to take me on.

I don't really understand how anyone can assume there's "less craft" here or that he worked on the songs less or "edited" them less or "just wrote down his first thoughts" or whatever. That seems really naive and also presumptuous.

yeah. Even if the songs give a loose feel, I think they are songs from a better musician, songwriter, etc.

This album feels like Tonight's the Night if Neil just kept a more Harvest sound for that phase. And the deaths were his relatives.

Feel like doing tiny cities was a turning point for his songwriting. He's had an early modest mouse feel to his lyrics ever since. Substitute Panera bread for orange julius.

I don't really understand how anyone can assume there's "less craft" here or that he worked on the songs less or "edited" them less or "just wrote down his first thoughts" or whatever. That seems really naive and also presumptuous.

― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Friday, February 28, 2014 11:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, on this one and on MK/Desertshore, some lyrics imply that the songs are extremely fresh prior to recording "James Gandolfini died at 51 that's the same age as the guy coming to play drums" (from memory).

Besides, if you compare the guitar lines and poetry to that of his work on Admiral Fell Promises, it's evident to me that he didn't "craft" these new songs as much overall.

That being said, I am in no way saying that Benji is not as good for any reason. I acknowledge it as a totally different approach and I love it.

― 4. Philip Seymour Hoffman and Bruce Berry "Eat Soup" at "Panera Bread" (3:37)

Absolutely love 'Benji'.

Long time follower of MK. Brutally honest and Grade A tune age

don't care if it's a piss take.

I always hear "bacon powder" instead of "baking powder"

thought it was an ohio home remedy

So, he was born in San Francisco but grew up in Ohio?

Grew up in Ohio but lives in San Francisco? Or maybe it was that he was born in San Francisco, grew up in Ohio then moved to San Francisco later on. Not sure.

Oh, ya. I think you're right, Evan. He was born in Ohio, but spent a lot of time in San Fran.

Yeah I'm pretty sure he's been in San Fran ever since Red House Painters began in 1992 at least.

yes, I'm not sure when he moved here but he's been here since the very early 90's.

It's nice to hear an artist taking chances like this so far along in their career. I love about half of this, but the other half is borderline unlistenable.

man i've never been a fan of this guy but i also can't think of anyone else who could pull off this material. excellent record.

You do all realise that "Perils from the Sea" is far better, yes?

No. Maybe a little better. Or maybe Benji is. Haven't made up my mind.

good lord, this is amazing

i never cared that much about red house painters and consequently never went out of my way to listen to sun kil moon.

is there no vinyl version???

final verdict: perils from the sea does way more for me than this one does, though i can still admire it and there's a couple songs that hit

If you love Benji you should really check out the Mark Kozelek/Desertshore album, as it is the direct lead up to Benji stylistically.

Benji is quite a bit better, don't you think?

Than the Desertshore collab, I mean.

Yes I do! But it's definitely the closet to Benji over the rest of his discography.

It's kind of like the "warm up" record to Benji is what I mean.

It's interesting (well, slightly) how much more "chat" the Sun Kil Moon album has generated compared to the preceding two Kozelek related albums.

It's not a side-project, it's much heavier lyrically, and I've got say though the Pfork BNM (esp with 9.2) forces new listeners to take notice (plus I have a little theory that many review sites tend to back whatever pfork backs in their own reviews)

oops didn't mean to word that so repetitively

I love the sound of the guitars on Benji. Don't know much other RHP or SKM stuff, but it's a good album. Played Micheline to my partner and she said it was one of the most affecting songs she'd ever heard, aaahhhh!

I think about this album whenever I have soup in a bread bowl

Yeah, I must check out some more of this guys stuff. I've liked what I've heard of RHP ("Michael", "New Jersey") though.

your first stop should be Ghosts of the Great Highway

I think the first two RHP albums is some of the best music I've ever heard. Third one (Bridge) and the first EP feels like part of that era though.

Benji is slaying me...I feel choked up through the whole thing and that last song is like a huge relief when you get to it

I don't ever shut up about it but I really think Admiral Fell Promises, while initially sounding extremely same-y with the nylon string only + similar song structures throughout, is probably one of his most poetic, proficient and beautiful albums. I know proficiency is not a critical aspect of good art but there is just SO much craft in his compositions on that record both musically and lyrically that Benji in comparison is far to the other side of the spectrum for him (given his playing capabilities as evidence particularly on AFP, the guitar melodies on Benji were probably as quickly written as the lyrics were and he's so good that there is nothing wrong with that).

what robert adam said. the first two albums plus the shock me ep have never been topped by mark. after that he is still great but the returns are diminishing.

"Moorestown" is one of the most heartbreaking songs I've ever heard.

There's a level of post-work weariness and drunkenness where the Streets' "A Grand Don't Come For Free" sounds like the most poignant album ever made. I thought I'd capture some of that feeling with a bottle of white, some "sour cream lentil curls" from M&S and "Benji". But I didn't.

(Big fan of Kozelek ... but somehow it just isn't doing it for me in the way you'd think it might.

On relisten, I'm...really torn on Benji. On one hand I admire that many of the arrangements take a lot more chances than basically anything else in his whole discography, which has generally switched btwn various types of restraint, even when supposedly "cutting loose." The combination of the somewhat brighter and broader sonic palette with the off-the-cuff lyrics does work some of the time, resulting in some really primally accessible music like "I Can't Live Without My Mother's Love" and "I Watched the Film..." and a couple others, as well as a couple of refreshingly breezy portraits like "Ben's My Friend" that would have been unthinkable even a couple of years ago. But it does have a tossed-off quality that backfires more than I cared to admit at first. What worries me is that it was so much better-received than Perils and Admiral, which are both better records that he might feel compelled to pull away from in terms of approach. (Then again he might decide that critics and audiences are full of shit and pull a 180 of some kind - predicting what the Koz will do at this point is folly.)

h8 this record but realistically simon h otm

If you love Benji you should really check out the Mark Kozelek/Desertshore album, as it is the direct lead up to Benji stylistically.

― Evan, Sunday, March 16, 2014 2:52 PM (5 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Just want to add this point that I was very surprised when the writing style carried over into Benji- when MK/Desertshore came out I wasn't put off because that kind of lack of refinement was appropriate for a side project record. Like a jam session gained some momentum and suddenly they had enough songs to make a record, and lyrically Mark had an opportunity to vent about Tim Mooney and Jason Molina dying among other things in a quickly written fashion. Never expected that approach to continue into an official Sun Kil Moon release. But given the success of artist-as-character-in-back-story-infused-records like Bon Iver and Girls it's no surprise the drama of the content is carrying this beyond the success of anything else he's done even when it is also the most underwritten by miles.

he was already doing this kind of stuff on Among The Leaves

Never gotten anywhere near all the way through AtL.

no surprise the drama of the content is carrying this beyond the success of anything else he's done even when it is also the most underwritten by miles.

I must again remind everyone that he just recently did the flagrantly autobiographical thing better on Perils, which he did none of the music for. An acquired taste I guess but the combo of simple electronic accompaniment with Koz's drifting travelogues really clicks for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7yYMfjVNJc

as I said, it's not a new development

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqV9ilyiWK4

It took Panera bread to connect with the people

Fair enough. Among the Leaves was the literal first time he changed his approach in the autobiographical way, but MK/Desertshore and Benji seem directly from a diary and entirely unedited beyond a first draft. To me they differentiate that way. AtL and Perils both have the conversational feel yet sound to me like he worked on the songs a bit more. "Young Love" for instance wouldn't even be that out of place on AFP (though I admit it isn't the best representation of AtL on the whole).

AtL literally has one that goes

Well I wrote this one and I know it ain't great
I'll probably sequence at track number 8
And pick up some water at 7/11
On my way to the mastering session

It's called Track Number 8

Plus as far as why Benji resonated more is clear- people don't emotionally connect to funny stories about touring the same way they do about the relatable accounts of family members tragically dying in their mundane hometowns between visits to mundane Panera Breads, reflections of parents much like theirs, growing up, etc.

xpost OK, OK, fair. Benji is still farther down the rabbit hole of quickly written and patched together songs though. His choice of guitar lines plays a big part as well.

I like to imagine that he laid down some really complicated and overwritten tracks before switching to chords + blue crabcakes

blue crabcakes + sports bar shit are my favourite moments on the album

otm

always read Panera bread as Pantera bread.

I'd eat a dime bag of chocolate croissants

LOL

I just realized that Koz must be looking at post-divorce Ben Gibbard w/ dollar signs in his eyes

Does anyone know who the female vocalist on Songs For A Blue Guitar is? I remember trying to find out a few times with no luck.

Stephanie Finch

"I just realized that Koz must be looking at post-divorce Ben Gibbard w/ dollar signs in his eyes"

why? Koz didn't get a divorce

"Stephanie Finch"

she's Chuck Prophet's wife and sings with him as well.

Thank you! Looks like she had a solo album a few years ago.

Can someone please tell the dude he is NOT funny?

he has his moments. funnier than most people, i think.

Yeah, like his funny songs

With regard to "beer commercial lead guitar music" or whatever, I used to see Red House Painters perform in San Francisco in the mid-90s. Kozelek was playing mostly electric guitar in those days. He would launch into a noodly, 20-minute guitar solo at least once during every set. It used to bore the piss out of me.

there's a point in OLD MAN YELLS AT CLOUD reportage where you stop laughing at the old man and start laughing at the reporter

i could except this sort of criticism from a band like Swans or something.
not from Kozelek, which is closer to the mainstream maybe even more than War On Drugs are

xpost

accept

'Make Like Paper' is fucking awesome, and I would listen to 90s kozelek's neil young impression all night long with a smile

agreed. i got to see him do a condensed, acoustic version of River, but it just wasn't the same without the Neil Young-isms.

So, logically, out of nowhere, we're getting a Mark Kozelek solo Christmas carol album. Enjoy?

http://caldoverderecords.com/christmas/mkscc2014.html

Kozelek has been particularly prolific these last few years so more material isn't surprising.

Personally I'm quite puzzled by pitchfork's stanning for Benji. Much more into the Koz with gravitas than the borderline rapping, teetering b/w sad and jokey Koz of Among The Leaves and beyond.

The Christmas carols album was actually announced about a year ago.

I think the pitchfork review is mostly based on their tendency to overestimate albums that are made by compelling characters. They seem to emphasize artists that would have compelling backstories over artists with without that attribute.

Think about how they treat very solid albums by not so distinct artists vs solid albums by very distinct artists.

Kozelek shifted from a incredible musician, singer and poet into a sloppier musician with an unedited, heart-wrenching and uncensored series of stories to tell and that's when pitchfork perked up.

lol revisiting pitchfork scores and april got an 8.3. pretty sure pfork were woke to kozelek

Right, they considered it solid but they didn't make a big fuss- no BNM etc.

Some albums just seem to come at the right moment. Never been able to figure out whether that was the result of zeitgeist or just a good PR team.

my thing is i think that a lot of early rhp lyrics had a stream of consciousness quality that's entirely distinct from benji and was way more rich than shit hanging on walls plus someone died man

which wouldn't be necessarily measurable by pfork scores. april being an 8.3/non-bnm is kinda right imo, it's a more discursive ghosts of the great highway and not as many people would be interested in that than, say, old white guy indexes memory, inevitably stumbles upon profound shit

mostly i'm thinking of "strawberry hill"

Honestly what's kind of funny about April though is that it may be (now after Benji, perhaps) the most heard album by SKM, and largely by demographics you wouldn't expect to care... all due to Heron Blue being used in that Gears of War trailer/commercial.

i can dig the destroyer-style arrangement, but i'm not into the rapping that he's doing or whatever. maybe i'm boring but i prefer serious koz to the post-admiral fell promises goofy koz.

― pearly-dewdrops' bops (monotony), Saturday, January 18, 2014 7:30 AM (8 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol, turns out I made basically the same post in January

He was pretty deadpan hilarious at the show I saw a couple weeks ago. Also poked fun at the BNM designation.

i hope neil young will remember: a southern man don't need him around, anyhow

http://sunkilmoon.com/mkwod/index.html

"the whitest band I've ever heard" - says the guy who makes the whitest music I've ever heard. What a stupid ass-clown. "bridge and tunnel people" - gee, sorry we can't all afford to live in the city itself, you elitist fuck-face.

song is pretty lol

It’s way funnier than a song called "War on Drugs Should Suck My Cock" should be.

friends with the writer he called a "spoiled bitch rich kid blogger brat" :[

the part about War on Drugs is sorta funny I guess

I wouldn't mind being called names in a song if it meant Mark Kozelek. If Matt P is a singer that's probably the closest I'll get.

I do agree that War on Drugs edges ahead of Sun Kil Moon as far as whiteness goes. And he never said he wasn't a close second so there's that.

I don't know if anyone would have predicted that the guy singing Alesund in 2010 conjuring Segovia in the process would in 2014 be channeling Art Alexakis in some bitter asshole joke-song about some buzzband.

friends with the writer he called a "spoiled bitch rich kid blogger brat"

did not enjoy that line much at all, and though most of the rest of it was pretty funny, i really wish he would concentrate on doing something more worthwhile

i can't take it as anything other than a sendup of his current bitter crank persona

That line reads as sexist and ugly to me

yeah, that is spiteful however you slice it

could imagine warren drugs being able to laugh at the stuff aimed at him though

looking forward to his new album, Finally Getting Publicity

Warren Druggs vs. Sunkle Moone

that sounds like a dope outlaw country record

Some backstory: here and here (scroll down).

"spoiled bitch rich kid blogger brat"

fuck that

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10338687_10203176249983475_5380334911075845925_n.jpg?oh=4cbc450febcb8b098b9b9a82e4d837c6&oe=54BA6B0E&__gda__=1422514200_6e65ee504e398f9d5bdb6afcc8562f3c

this is the best song koz has done in years

This is completely horrible and lazy and not funny, no idea how anyone made it all the way through it

this is the best song koz has done in years

Yup, and therein lies the tragedy.

Although I will give Koz points for referring to it as the Ottawa Bleedfest. Thanks to the same management, we now have this flawed template for two of our biggest music festivals.

he's on some shia labeouf shit lately, nagl

Had he been to rehab before?

when he was 14

kinda feels like this is leading up to heading back there

I'm not sure any of this is drug/alcohol related. He's been saying this kind of shit at gigs for years. It's just now he's got Pitchfork etc. covering his every move.

^

Yeah honestly I can't tell if this is a sign of darker things or just a high-profile bored trolling

I'm not sure any of this is drug/alcohol related. He's been saying this kind of shit at gigs for years. It's just now he's got Pitchfork etc. covering his every move.

decades

i mean jeers to calling a woman a bad word, but cheers to an old crank making the internet's beef obsession work for him

don't really understand people saying this is far and away his best or worst song of late - pretty guitars with stream-of-conscious hyper-personal lyrics, seems fairly par for course

seems like the dude just comes up with a lick and then croons whatever's on his mind over it, be it they might be giants lyrics or his shopping list

i mean jeers to calling a woman a bad word, but cheers to an old crank making the internet's beef obsession work for him

otm

I think the anti-fan commentary is fascinating. When I was a teenager I wrote Mark a few letters, he always replied. In fact, I, for whatever reason, stopped our correspondence. I still order from Caldo Verde and the notes and knick knacks he includes strike me as sincere and personal gesture of gratitude.

He’s very much a pre-Internet performer. I think closeness for fans today is very different than it was when Red House Painters emerged. It’s far more personal for him. He’ll never retweet or reblog and I think that’s fine.

oh god the pitchfork article on this. STOP PAYING ATTENTION TO THE TROLL PEOPLE.

dunno, personally i would rather someone call out high-profile macho bullshit as such than just report it tmz-style

kinda hard not to pay attention to a troll who's this dedicated to not shutting the f--- up. yes he seems to have always been like this, and yes people are paying more attention now b/c outlets beyond the hipsterverse have discovered benji, and editors know that this crap gets clicks. but if it doesn't exist with this frequency no one writes on it. and for the record, if it's dumb trolly behavior, so what if it's only being covered with such frequency now? that doesn't make it less annoying, especially for someone who appreciates how good his music is independent of all this. if it didn't involve calling someone a stupid bitch and using homophobic language, it'd just be mildly pathetic. but it does do those things.

as for the p4k pitch post, no mark kozelek might not have active fantasies about forcing buzz bands to fellate him and is definitely trolling but his language does tie into the systemic things that meredith graves is discussing.

if it didn't involve calling someone a stupid bitch and using homophobic language, it'd just be mildly pathetic. but it does do those things.

How many of Pitchfork’s Top 100 Tracks of 2015 will include a lyric calling someone “a stupid bitch” and homophobic language?

(I should emphasize that I don’t think anyone should do either and that’s changed my music preferences dramatically …)

oh wow that's gotta be a landspeed record for finding a way to indict rap music damn bruh

if it had even been like, a good song, or had a real point, honestly i could probably find a way to let those things go. maybe i'm a hypocrite for letting it go in a fair amount of the rap music i love. so the hell be it.

maybe i'm a hypocrite for letting it go in a fair amount of the rap music i love. so the hell be it.

― slothroprhymes, Wednesday, October 8, 2014 11:44 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i say this as a rap fan: there is no "maybe"

the one 100% true fact about this is that the song is currently playing in the daily tar heel office, like right now

welp, there it is. oh to the well.

xp the DTH can lick my boots

That whole p4k article blows details way out of proportion, honestly.

Ha. Wow. That article...

(n.b. I don't know this for a fact. but I also... kinda know it for a fact)

So happy with that article, fist-pumps for days

"war on drugs suck my cock" sounds like that acoustic version of "i kill everything i fuck" that an ilxor recorded 10 years ago

yeah Meredith Graves' article was excellent, fuck this guy

it never really would have occurred to me that the red house painters guy's cock would become erect in the first place so this whole scandal seems absurd

suck my cock is maybe as homophobic a phrase as perfect pussy is transphobic a phrase. they're also equally terrible phrases to use for your music band.

the allusions to emotional & physical abuse in the lyrics of red house painters songs used to make me distressed to the point of nausea when I was a sad teen. now I don't listen to RHP anymore (save for an occasional revisit of "bubble" from the bridge album which has a nice melody)

the whole troll campaign is so lame, i dont think he's off his rocker, he's just trying to make some money and get some attention and succeeding, but he's such a nasty prick, calling a journalist a "spoiled bitch" and using "suck my cock" as an insult, it's a bit out of date, no?

I thought the analysis of "suck my cock" was reaching quite a bit. I definitely agree it is very douchey though.

"suck my cock" as an insult isnt much different from calling someone a fag/bitch/cunt, whatever- this graf:

Which is why, in all likelihood, Kozelek chose to say "suck my cock" instead of "I think your band is bad." "Suck my cock" is a command heard most often in two places: heterosexual porn, and schoolyard taunts between presumably straight boys. In no way does Mark Kozelek actually want his cock sucked by the members of the War on Drugs. What he wants is to make them feel violated, to make them feel submissive. "Suck my cock" is an order, not a request. "Suck my cock" is, when used by the wrong person, the language of physical force, the language of rape. He wants the world to know that he thinks TWOD sucks cock, implying that sucking cock is a bad thing. Who sucks cock? Not straight dudes like Mark Kozelek, but women and gay men. Which one of these groups is he using as an insult?

although i think it's safe to say "suck my cock" appears in almost all forms of pornography where a cock is involved

lol

even fake ones!

it never really would have occurred to me that the red house painters guy's cock would become erect in the first place so this whole scandal seems absurd

― j., Wednesday, October 8, 2014 2:12 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah dude's music is SO PUSSY right bro

hey antidepressants are no joke

criticizing something you find objectionable by stooping to its level is the american way, can't knock that

i just think if you want to effectively demean somebody by talking about your cock you would be wise to consider the rhetorical position from which you do so

He wants the world to know that he thinks TWOD sucks cock, implying that sucking cock is a bad thing.

There is a leap here. He never says "TWOD sucks cock" as an insult (I think?). I agree that he is saying grossly macho stuff, but the song title seems to only hinge on the power dynamic involved in oral sex that is not reciprocated. It does not imply that sucking cock is a bad thing imo.

the rest of the paragraph seems OTM though

Yeah that was my thought too, more or less.

ilm busts out the extra powerful textual analysis magnifying glass for sun kil moon song "war on drugs: suck my cock"

great thread

anyways, fuck this guy imo

Admiral Fell Promises forever! (also ghosts)

April is good too.

maybe MK and chris ott (if he hasn't clipped himself yet) could band together and form like the hipsterati version of that MRA group a voice for men can you imagine the thinkpieces and (justified) outrage that would spawn.

hey mark and chris if you see this i'd like my intellectual property payment in ones and fives please

Is there any real consensus on the best Kozelek releases?

As I said earlier, I think the first two RHP albums are amongst the best music I've ever heard. The 3rd album and the 1st EP are in that same sweet area.
Ocean Beach and Old Ramon was mostly lukewarm for me but had some great tracks too. I really love Songs For A Blue Guitar.
Haven't heard the RHP tribute album stuff (was it the John Denver one with Slowdive's Rachel Goswell? I heard that was the last RHP stuff).

I mostly liked Ghosts Of The Great Highway, especially the incredible "Duk Koo Kim".
I mildly enjoyed April and didn't get much from Admiral Fell Promises. Some people vastly prefer Sun Kil Moon to early RHP but I just don't get that.

My ranking

Red House Painters- I (rollercoaster)
Red House Painters- Down Colorful Hill
Red House Painters- Songs For A Blue Guitar
Red House Painters- II (bridge)
Sun Kil Moon- Ghosts Of The Great Highway
Red House Painters- Shock Me EP
Red House Painters- Ocean Beach
Sun Kil Moon- April
Red House Painters- Old Ramon
Sun Kil Moon- Admiral Fell Promises

What do you recommend next? Are the AC/DC cover albums still favourites?

guys...sayin "fuck this guy"...not really that diff from him tellin war on drugs bro to suck his cock...

...think about it

#whoa

#STAYWOKE

mind blown

sorry mark kozelek

In no way does the ilx poster actually want mark kozelek fucked by the other posters of ilx. Who fucks kozelek? Like seriously, I look at him and think 'who would fuck kozelek?' Can you believe I work in a bank? You're losing it guy, and it shows. But at night, I'm crazy. I'm the king of the blogs. Fuck this guy, right?! Fuck this guy!

I don't really care much about Sun Kil Moon or Perfect Pussy, but I thought that was a good essay. Also I like War on Drugs a lot. So fuck this guy.

jfc yall are fuckin morons sometimes

Who's fucking Christ? Not kozelek.

Who's fuckin morons? Not kozelek.

hey everybody come and look at the violence inherent in the system

mark kozelek would never stoop to such a level god how gross

No results found for "mark hoselick"

― john wahey (NickB), Wednesday, October 8, 2014 4:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

aaahahahahahaha outstanding

Drew Daniel from Matmos kind of dropped some knowledge on this topic:

https://twitter.com/DDDrewDaniel

OTM. The ageist parts of the essay didn't even make sense anyway.

also, the two main ottawa folk festival stages did point directly at each other this year. they at least angled them away from each other in previous years. come on, ottawa!

Yeah, it was weird. Mark Kozelek isn't sliding into irelevance, he is more popular than ever. And actually, 'white guys who were big in the nineties' is pretty much the new black in the industry atm. None of those are particularly good things, imo, but it is what it is.

Right, and he didn't choose John Mellencamp because he's an old dude trying to stay relevant to the younger crowd. He chose Mellencamp because he is trying to punch up. He thinks he is punching up at TWOD as well, and he is in some ways. Still, the pitchfork essay was worthwhile given the praise and exposure given to his choice of hate filled language. It's just weird that the essay also contains this incorrect and ageist analysis of kozelek's motivation for his word choice.

he covered Ted Nugent recently. He is not gunning for the hearts of youngsters.

it's all over now, baby blue

It's absurd to me that this incident has received such extended analysis. That said, Drew kinda nails it.

Oh, and Robert, I'm generally with you on your rankings. Rock and Roll Singer should be next on your search list. Also the Hultsfred 1997 live versions of Old Ramon tracks are far superior to the studio versions.

stone temple pilots, they're elegant bachelors

Thanks Doug.

old ramon was a huge disappointment when it finally came out. we sat around and waited to hear that for years. it's less irritating now but at the time, eh.

Is that live bootleg big among fans? There is one song in particular I'd love to hear but can't remember the title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rhjAF9oQyc

Sorry that the clip doesn't embed.

Listening to it now, I'm baffled by how P4k could get so excited about Benji. It's like stanning for Lou Reed's Take No Prisoners at the expense of the entire back-catalog of the Velvet Underground.

Take No Prisoners rules!

i love old ramon but then i've never actually heard that bootleg

guitar tone on old ramon is the most gorgeous thing

kinda kozelek agnostic, but i love most of old ramon.

the best thing on Old Ramon is indeed Phil Carney's guitar.

channeling Steve Hackett

I hadn't yet picked up on the Hackett comparison, must now relisten

some bullshit about this in pitchfork: " "Suck my cock" is a command heard most often in two places: heterosexual porn, and schoolyard taunts between presumably straight boys" such a joyless reading i mean lots of people say suck my cock in contexts that are much more fun. i bet there are plenty of dyke power tops who have used it and meant it as an example, obviously there are more. if you presume everything takes place within the confines of straight white male sociality then of course everything can be read as the violent product of this culture but i mean who has the time

srsly who could think a mark kozelek song takes place within the confines of straight white male sociality

dude totally could be imitating dyke power tops

i just got a promo of mark's new solo album, and he has really gone off the deep end this time...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1911787_10153393520727137_6536637952645129286_n.jpg?oh=7261f1826b19307d3151bd9c82f7a016&oe=54CA9702&__gda__=1425446482_e3ea6b9354ec16fd27a885e8961c0785

Did someone say power hops? Because I could sure go for a cool, refreshing 9% abv IPA.

War on Drugs, suck my hops

lol

I know tomorrow
You will be somewhere in London
Living with someone
you want some kind of trumpeter to play two
and that's just what i'm gonna give you
*solo*

Looked around for the Old Ramon song I loved and it's "Void". Fucking great song.

I haven't read the insults, listened to the song or read the articles, but all the controversy has put me in the most Kozelek hungry I've been in years.

"Kozelek. Now available with aspartame."

if you listen to the end of void, the intertwined lead guitars (which is carney overdubbed) absolutely sounds like Hackett circa Nursery Cryme.

I guess I'm an outlier but my favorite Kozelek period is Songs From a Blue Guitar/Old Ramon/If You Want Blood/Ghosts of the Great Highway.

I know tomorrow
You will be somewhere in London
Living with someone
you want some kind of trumpeter to play two
and that's just what i'm gonna give you
*solo*

― da croupier, Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:22 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Amazing

Kool Kat Song

srsly who could think a mark kozelek song takes place within the confines of straight white male sociality

― da croupier, Thursday, 9 October 2014 16:13 (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah but you find what you want in a culture. a hermeneutics of intent is a pretty pointless way of reading anything but hey i guess you could ring up david lynch and ask him what the log lady means.

stop trying to lie to us like her log didn't see something that night

Is Retrospective worth getting for the demos and live versions?

Is Retrospective worth getting for the demos and live versions?

No.

Yes.

it's ok. you can probably find it incredibly cheap.

I haven't read the insults, listened to the song or read the articles, but all the controversy has put me in the most Kozelek hungry I've been in years.

Mission Accomplished.

plax otm

constant

damn yall some limber motherfuckers with the gymnastics in this thread

stop objectifying us

everybody's moved on to the Grimes/Ariel Pink beef now anyway

can't wait to see what next week has in store!

speaking of dried beef

BEEF CROSSOVER http://actuallygrimes.tumblr.com/post/98711973564/people-who-dont-like-the-smashing-pumpkins-can

survivorman once ate some beef that had crossed over

http://pitchfork.com/news/57253-mark-kozelek-adam-granofsky-blues/

oops he did it again

Seriously Mark. This is some full fledged bullying! I mean, I kinda had this theory that he's been doing this to clown all of the media outlets that are since Benji suddenly paying close attention to the things he's always been doing. But damn.

This guy went like five notches down in my esteem for his pointless, childish diss tracks.

to what granularity do you esteem?

Maybe he's trying to sabotage his recent new Benji fan base and get back to how it was before.

He had that little stupid dig at Nels Cline on Benji -- kind of funny but also just kind of insecure that there are people who play guitar better than him.

I always read that as him thinking Nels Cline's style was too noodle-y.

Yeah I'm sure that it's what he means (plays the little noodly lick after), but it also just reads to me as resentment. I just think it's weird that a dude his age still feels so much of that kind of resentment toward other musicians, especially in the midst of a semi-surprising resurgence in his career.

(I mean maybe he didn't know it was a resurgence when he wrote the Nels Cline line but certainly by the time he did the War on Drugs song).

Yeah that's what I mean though- like he's acting out so he can sabotage all the good will the resurgence brought him. Maybe it's getting to him.

I thought that the War on Drugs shenanigans were kinda funny - but I also think War on Drugs had the better album this year.

yawn this guy

https://soundcloud.com/andrew-broder/mimon-sparfunkel-can-kizz-my-whole-entire-azz

i thought the initial dis was sort of amusing but fake laughing at the response is like barely better than complaining about "haters" as far as engaging in public beef goes

I think it would be funny coming from some 20-year-old upstart punk, it's not really funny coming from a guy that's not far from being some kind of indie eminence grise. Like even if he thinks War on Drugs is not interesting and shouldn't be as big as it is, where has the guy been? Is it really still surprising him by now that something he finds a little bland is popular?

not to defend it, but i don't think he really cares if these songs stand the test of time. he's trolling.

I don't think it's a new thought for him. It's just getting attention now.

Think he fancies himself 'a real blue collar SOB from the Midwest' and he's behaving like one.

bc he is one prbly

I thought midwesterners were supposed to be excessively polite

not in my experience!

Check it out, here's a new Sun Kil Moon song:

My dad is a really cool guy
One time we split a panini at Panera bread
four cousins were killed later that day in unrelated gravel pit tragedies
and when I got the news the radio was playing the song Limelight by Rush

...Rush can suck my cok

to be fair rush is fucking awful

but xpost yeah thats a pretty OTM caricature/summary of benji and of "confessional storytelling" koz

based on how he looks of late in publicity photos i would guess that a drinking problem of some severity might play into all this (as well as the obvious trolling factor/aspects of insecurity with fame and frustration w/ the indie press discussed above)

there was an article about the tiff from a female perspective (i.e. s&*k my c&*k) in the last day or two but now I can't find it

Thinking of the pitchfork article written by the lead from Perfect Pussy?

Yes, that's right...thanks!

this guy is a jackass

:-o

koz was sober/straight for years and years but I wouldn't be surprised to find out he is no longer

Is it really still surprising him by now that something he finds a little bland is popular?

lol @ idea that someone who steve reichs acoustic chords and hold steadys livejournal words over it in 2014 finds anything "bland"

take out whatever terrible line he has about his teenage sexuality and put in "that was the first time I drank blonde roast" and u got urself a buzzfeed-approved hit

acoustic chords

xpost BUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

xpost

http://www.acoustic-guitar-weddings.com/images/Em_chord.jpg

I'm no WoD stan tbqh but this hardman posturing by a guy who pedals privileged anger over a well-worn style of music makes me cross, though his nonsense was already taken care of by m graves

let him continue shaking his fist at the world around him, it's tough being part of the most privileged demo alive man i feel u

Eminor is an acoustic chord got it

i could post all the pictures but load times etc.

there are at least ten, maybe eleven

He phase-shifts acoustic chords?

That would be amazing

i like 'steve reichs' as a verb.

could just say 'arpeggiate'

has the sun kiled the moon yet

lunacide

RIP moon i hardly knew u

Except arpeggiating chords isn't really a thing Steve Reich does a lot so?

let's not pick apart too much ppl i typed that in between mouthfuls of wheat thins

xp but it seems to be something koz does a lot but i could be mistaken

So you mean you can't type during the time when your mouth is full of wheat thins?

Or do you just mean that wheat thins, with their carb coma-inducing capacity, impair your ability to think clearly

think he means that the moments between wheat thins are frivolous

and franklin otm

Typing while eating wheat thins: succumb to my middle-aged white male privilege (or, I project self-loathing for failures of simultaneous wheat thin consumption and typing through the language of male violence aimed at unsuspecting individuals)

q: are your wheat thins 'popped'?

indeed, what is life but a series of frivolous moments in between mouthfuls of wheat thins, xp

my wheat thins are standard, except they are the "low sodium choice"

i find most snack foods are salted enough tyvm xp

'popped' wheat thins seem overly buttery to me.

but I am ignorant of the 'popping' process as applied to wheat thins so maybe it is required

how about you play one of your songs now, and I play wheat thins commercial guitar over it?

as long as u use electric chords

i will use saucy chords

something something something panera bread

philip glass & wheat thins join forces for astoundingly crunchy, minimally seasoned, zero-calorie 'glass thins'

wheat thins are expected to be a thematic thread throughout the next sun kil moon record

Ham on Reich/Lick My Thins

Salt Kil Fish

I Can't Live Without My Mother's Spinach Dip

we're goin' down the road, towards tiny cities made of crackers...

"And that was the same day I found out my great niece Kaitlin slipped and fell on some wheat thins"

kozelek is the racoon tanuki of folk rock

^^^^^BUUUUUURRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNN

koz gonna need time in the hospital for that, 2nd degree at least

if somehow he ends up in the hospital due to a booze relapse i'm prob gonna feel bad about saying that huh

Now Sings Christmas Carols finally comes out and it feels like an unwanted present from the obnoxious uncle you try and avoid at family gatherings. What happened in between? Kozelek saw the reaction he got from a typically cranky and offhand comment about War on Drugs’ music bleeding into his own at a festival and somehow thought releasing not one but two songs about it a would be amusing to someone other than himself (plus a t-shirt with another insult). Suffice to say the joke isn’t funny anymore, and Kozelek is looking pretty sad, not to mention that he’s probably alienating new fans he may have acquired since Benji’s release.

kozelek is looking pretty. pretty sad.

Is there a record somewhere of Kozelek seeing the reaction he got and then looking sad?

is there a picture of him somewhere not looking sad?

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsK/45349-29304.jpg

just looks kinda 'what?' there

but he is playing a character. there are no non-sad photos while not in character.

kinda funny how the best verse of the centerpiece track of this album is about apologizing for bullying someone for no good reason

ha! I had forgotten about that. He's just creating future material...

New song: "John Paul Jones Sucks At Keyboard"

Kozelek has not heard the No Quarter overdubs on the deluxe reissue

xpost or how about "I Can't Fucking Believe Zep Licensed 'Rock And Roll' For A Toyota Commercial I Am Now Hate-Watching While Drunk"

Dude.. That was Cadillac...

The Possum. http://www.sunkilmoon.com/skmpossum/

thoughts?

This dude has crawled up inside his own ass at this point.

I think it's great. I wish I could navigate a midlife crisis by recording a song about a dead possum and going to a Godflesh show instead of other mistakes that I have made.

I do wish that he would go back to his natural beautiful pipes instead of trying to do this Modest Mouse guy howling thing. It's kind of like if John Lennon ended up recording every song for the rest of his life in Yer Blues mode. I guess it's almost like some kind of natural law regarding genius that if you're really talented you have to sabotage it in some way through a combination of overthinking and trying too hard to get away from what you do best. But I like the song a lot.

Yeah, I'm not into it myself. He should maybe write a book and get the stream of conscious story telling out that way since he doesn't seem very interesting in "crafting" songs as of late.

Musically for him this is something he can shit out with absolutely no effort. I just with he would put some energy back into that aspect of his songwriting.

Mm, yeah, Benji is great and all but I haven't been able to listen to it more than one and a half times. Aside from the harrowing subject matter, just from a basic aesthetic sense it's not exactly a song format that bears repeated listens. I feel like on Old Ramon/Ghosts of the Great Highway/April he managed to fit his storytelling/confessional urges in a format that was more conducive to hitting the repeat button

It's funny, I only just now realized this, but the first time I ever heard GoTGH was on Thanksgiving, my friend sent it to me for no reason at all, and I opened up the package on t-giving and finally listened to it, like maybe 30 seconds of each song before I had to rush out of the house and go do holiday stuff, and I knew instantly that it was an amazing record -- it was that good. My friend advertised it to me by saying that he got stricken with a stomach virus and he was bedridden for several days in a row and just kept listening to the record on repeat. I can totally understand that -- he did something on that record that he hasn't been able to do since ... tho I do love April as well.

Yeah, I agree Evan.

Right, Admiral Fell Promises edges out as the favorite for me, but I feel the same more or less. I definitely repeat listen to later material myself, but so much of the latest from him is carried almost entirely by poignancy in the narrative and his delivery.

https://twitter.com/pitchfork/status/538723495274758144
just look at the title of the b-side. DIS SHIT DONT STOP.

not that I'm mad at anyone for making fun of the hipsterati, even with them being the lowest possible hanging fruit there is, but given everything he's already done it's just pathetic, and also the people he hates are paying his bills and keeping him relevant, not the older indie dilletante TROO BELIEVERZ. so it's wild hypocritical altho I doubt he cares. standing by my logic that he's either relapsed to boozing OR, alternately, is having a real hard time being sober.

I knew instantly that it was an amazing record

same here. i checked it out of the library because of the cover art and as soon as i started playing it i was like "wow i uh made the right decision"

Did you rip it?