Stevie Wonder-- C or D?

You some sort of Counting Crows fan, jj ?

Anyway classic. I only know the mid 70s work, people on the other SW threads were praising the 60s stuff, which I imagine to be great in a fun motown way.

Woman in Red onward = Dud

but he made some of the most joyously swinging soul singles of the '60s, and then made these absolutely perfect albums all in a row in the '70s:

music of my mind
talking book
innervisions
fulfillingness' first finale
songs in the key of life

and then went on to make a couple of good if not great albums afterward before finally burning out and turning into a very hit-or-miss '80s soul dude.

an amazing singer, a great songwriter, an inventive arranger, and if he needed to play all the instruments himself, he could do that too, a la prince. that latter talent wouldn't really matter if the songs weren't there, but they were, and he had range, from smooth balladry to jittery funk to protest music with strings. and he could rock the clavinet like nobody.

if his rep is a bit lower than he used to be, which i'm not sure it's true, that sure as hell ain't stevie's fault.

dud. not.

And, hey - just because something's overrated doesn't neccesarily mean it's not great. It can be both!

Deserves a dud for his 80s output tho'.

Dud for inventing the interminable "thanks to..." credit list, on Songs In The Key Of Life.

AND SHE'S ON IT!

life has no more surpries for me now

http://www.mtv.co.uk/channel/mtvuk/news/06062008/423854/stevie_wonder_european_tour

Man, is this guy a great drummer. I'm listening to "Bird of Beauty" and "Have a Talk With God."

"Higher Ground"! He's got a cupla good backbeats on the last album.

He's like Ringo -- he gets a great SOUND from his instrument. You can distinguish him from other players.

He's hanging off the back of the beat even more than Charlie Watts = CLASSIC

A couple really distinctive things I've noticed about his drumming are that a) he tends to bust out with triplets on the cymbal against an otherwise straight-8th base and b) his tendency to use the ride cymbal in the function of the hi-hat, which makes those tricky cymbal rhythms sound clearer than they would played on the hat.

"What'd I Say" = #1 influence on Stevie as a drummer imo

Yeah, that makes sense -- that kind of busyness. He plays fills that I don't think anybody else could get away with on "Bird of Beauty."

Btw, who was the drummer on "What'd I Say"? That mf is my hero.

Also, the hats/ride tend to be mixed LOUD on Stevie's records. Cymbals, cymbals, cymbals.

But yeah, basically Stevie is a monster on the trap.

also he does a lot of overdubbing & multitracking (ie playing just the cymbals, then just the snare, and/or multiple hi-hat parts like on 'i wish')

Listening to "Bird of Beauty", the most amazing thing about the drumming is how ably he inserts all his oddball fills right into the middle of the groove, instead of breaking from the groove to fill. He just inserts all these other drums around the maintained pattern.

xp: I feel like you just told me Santa Claus doesn't exist.

I believe he also played drums on (and produced) "It's A Shame."

'i wish' is a pretty good one to hear how he does his shit btw, there a lots of times when the hi-hat on the right is playing something different than the one on the left or when there are two-handed fills when both hi-hats are still going. not that he always breaks it down like this, but listening to 'bird of beauty' there are parts where it sounds likely.

But on the real side:

Marvin Gaye began as a drummer too. Say what you want about Berry Gordy, but he knew what we most look forward to in a song.

Listening to "Bird of Beauty", the most amazing thing about the drumming is how ably he inserts all his oddball fills right into the middle of the groove, instead of breaking from the groove to fill. He just inserts all these other drums around the maintained pattern.

ha, that's because he is literally maintaining the groove on one track and doing oddball fills on another, i'm pretty sure.

not that i'm knocking it, that shit was ahead of its time and he makes it sound great.

'it's a shame' is awesome, i had no idea he played drums on it. the soul band i'm in does that song, i'll have to listen a little bit closer to the drum part.

yup, he at least double-tracked the hi-hats on 'it's a shame', maybe more. check the breakdown.

Jordan droppin' science

yeah this is fab, Jordan; you're helping me hear the songs differently (better, I think); this is the kind of shit I really come to ILM for.

No way I can believe we have to discuss this. Dud? Really? Maybe not even if you've only listened to I Just Called To Say I Love You. The man's body of work is just amazing.

Yeah, thanks, Jordan.

Listening to "Bird of Beauty", the most amazing thing about the drumming is how ably he inserts all his oddball fills right into the middle of the groove, instead of breaking from the groove to fill. He just inserts all these other drums around the maintained pattern.

And however he did it, this is OTM.

Overrated? Not likely. Underrated if anything. Whenever I put on any of the 5 70s albums listed above I find it hard to think of anyone who is not just a better all-rounder, but better individually at playing/writing/singing full-stop.

I got Talking Book and Innervisions in a boot sale.

TB has Superstition, but too many ballads for me.

I'd play Innervisions anytime.

Any Time.

that's more a S&D case, isn't it? no doubt he'll always be classic for all he did in the 70s.

Guys, breathing is overrated. Dud.

Anybody who says D should have their vote taken away, just like the idiots who didnt vote for Rickey Henderson for the HOF.

interesting wiki entry, thanks for the mention of a baseball hero I had no knowledge of.

what i'd really love to know is what order he tended to record his tracks in. did he do the drums first, and then did he start with the kick & snare or cymbals? did he use a click (or the early 70s equivalent)?

Can't help you there. All I know is the story about "It's A Shame" as related in Dennis Coffey's book. He tried to get Uriel and Pistol to play it the way he wanted it. They did it over and over but he just wasn't satisfied so they got up off their drum kits and said "YOU play it!"

Actually maybe you could go over to soulful detroit and see if Dennis Coffey or Bob Babbitt or somebody could tell you more.

"interesting wiki entry, thanks for the mention of a baseball hero I had no knowledge of."

ha ha, no problem

I think he's over-rated and given too much praise.

Dud

I think jj meant to say "Aretha."

Rickey Henderson/Stevie Wonder analogy really works, both show overwhelming technical mastery and dedication to craft of course but also exude style & seem to blow away the competition by sheer force of their larger-than-life personalities.

xpost heretic

ok, a few too many drippy ballads, but seriously: Superstition, If You Really Love Me, etc....genius.
I'll never forget standing outside my school as a teenager in the early 80s and this black guy walks past with a massive ghettoblaster pumping out Sir Duke. That intro blew my mind.

Dud for the mu-mus and the lyrical platitudes, some classic music.

The song he wrote for Obama was cringe-worthy.

what i'd really love to know is what order he tended to record his tracks in. did he do the drums first, and then did he start with the kick & snare or cymbals? did he use a click (or the early 70s equivalent)?

Have you seen the "Greatest Albums" doc about Songs in the Key of Life? Haven't seen it in awhile, but there may be a scene where he breaks his process down. In any case, it's an interesting program.

Superstition 16 track tape:

01 - Kick Drum Mic
02 - Drum Overhead L
03 - Drum Overhead R
04 - Lead Vocal 1
05 - Lead Vocal 2
06 - Clavinet Dub 1 through tape echo
07 - Clavinet Dub 2 through tape echo
08 - Clavinet Dub 1 L
09 - Clavinet Dub 1 R
10 - Clavinet Dub 2 L
11 - Clavinet Dub 2 R
12 - Clavinet Dub 2 Room Mic L
13 - Clavinet Dub 2 Room Mic R
14 - Horns Dub 1
15 - Horns Dub 2
16 - Moog Bass

yeah i think the drums on superstition are straight-up live.

wow, i never noticed that superstition had synth bass before. and it sounds so sloppy by itself (but is obv. super funky in the track). thanks for posting that.

I Just Called to Say I Love You is much maligned but it's an incredibly good song.

A very good singer and songwriter. I was always amazed he could play music on the piano being blind. He started out as a singles artist and then became such a great albums artists too.

And he is still only 58 years old which is also amazing.

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Don't get me wrong, he's a genius. Or he was, at least...

I mean,

"If You Really Love Me" is one of his best songs but doesn't always get the "Top Stevie Songs" nod, which is a shame.

haha, I have Where I'm Coming From on right now, and was just thinking that "If You Really Love Me" is a bit clunky in execution, and that if he'd written it a few years later, he would have structured it a lot better.

It's a little maladroit in its slow-fast dialectic, but it's all worth it for the key change.

well said, geir

It probably would've been better executed had it made just a few years later, but, at the same time, I like it a lot for its messiness. It's not unlike something that would've been on Rundgren's Something/Anything and it has that same breezy "We're just having fun in the studio writing songs. Are we even being recorded? Who cares - btw, somebody tell the engineer to order pizza," tone.

xpost I deserve that

love love love that whole album.

From Talking Book to Songs in the Key of Life Stevie was the man. I can't think of too many musicians that had a better run than he did from 1972 to 76. Even the weaker stuff, like Music of My Mind, would be a career highpoint for most. I don't see how anyone could say dud.

i always feel guilty that i don't like stevie wonder that much.

:\

u should. sorry. :(

i don't like stevie wonder i LOVE HIM

yeah i know i don't know what's wrong w/me.

i have like talking book and innervisions and songs in the key of life, too, so it's not like i haven't heard "the right albums"

i wouldn't sweat it too hard matt, you seem like a rockin dude otherwise

Could we have a Stevie Wonder albums poll? Please!

what's stopping you

A combination of tiredness right now and a feeling that people don't necessarily like polls as much as me, making me cautious about starting them. I'll do it tomorrow night if it's not shot down or appeared at someone else's hands (feel free, if the urge strikes you, anyone) by then. I'd be very interested to see how the big player albums stack up against each other.

loads of Stevie fans here and he's had a pretty weird career (who, oh who will rep for 80s Stevie?) I'm sure it'll go over well

i would love to vote in a stevie wonder poll, do it!

Would anyone want any of the compilations on the list, or would the wikipedia Live & Studio albums selection be OK?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevie_Wonder_discography

I recommend stickin with studio LPs

I'd honestly break it into decades ... '60s, '70s, and then '80s on.

And include the Syreeta albums.

def break it into decades. including the syreeta albums will make the 70s much harder to choose from!

huh I've never heard any of those, how many are there?

she did two in the early 70s, stevie produced/wrote at least one of them, and they're both excellent.

Thanks to Eric H we now have: 1970s Stevie Wonder Album Poll

Stevie Wonder could release an album a month for the rest of his life, each of which consisted of only 70 solid minutes of him farting, and his status as Total Classic wouldn't be at all challenged in my book.

Come to think of it, it might actually be strengthened, given that scenario.

I want Farts In The Key Of Ass volumes right now.

Sounded good (although not amazing) on the Haiti telethon the other night

Sixty years old today!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_XgqLz-YbA

Happy birthday Stevie Wonder! One time a long time ago I listened to Signed, Sealed, Delivered on the Motown box set and it was just the right day for me to really understand how great it was & I proceeded to listen to it for four straight hours, every listen revealing new things about the groove & your rad vocal performance & it was one of the best times I've ever had listening to music! You rule forever and when people hate on you for I Just Called or whatever you tell em underrated aerosmith albums wonders how many songs these haters have written that people use to build bridges between themselves & the people they love! Also, your pioneering use of the recording studio as a creative space is fuckin rad, and your taste in microphones is peerless! Have a kickass birthday! your fan, underrated aerosmith albums I have loved

Fucking hilarious that somebody (the guy who started this thread) would think Stevie Wonder is overrated.

One of his more underrated singles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8vMmgeDiKU

Somebody e-mailed me this morning that he is doing a free show at the Verizon Center in Washington DC on May 26th as part of a tribute.

Promotion code is DCPS

http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/150044A3B87C8CA1?artistid=1445022&majorcatid=10001&minorcatid=52

Having sold the Washington Wizards and Verizon Center to Ted Leonsis last week, the Pollin family is ready to celebrate its lengthy connection to this area. Irene Pollin, the widow of the franchise patriarch, and her sons, Robert and Jim, will host a free, private concert featuring legendary musician Stevie Wonder on May 26.

The Pollins plan to honor employees of Washington Sports and Entertainment and those of several civic and public service organizations, such as the D.C. Fire Department and police department, public school teachers and hospital workers from George Washington Hospital and Sibley Hospital, where Abe Pollin was treated before his passing last November. They are fittingly dubbing the event, "Living for the city," for Wonder's classic hit single.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2010/05/pollins-living-for-the-city-wi.html

What is the most embarrassingly sentimental Stevie Wonder song? He has a ton, but which one is the worst?

Inspired by hearing this today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ1-duv_zNk

You almost want to blame Stevie for inspiring that unique Michael Jackson-style of kitsch in pop that's so heavy-handed.

I saw Stevie Wonder for the first time on Sunday night, and man I was not prepared for how overwhelming it would be to see him perform right in front of me. Just, wow. I bawled like a baby. That music's been such a huge part of my life for so long, all woven around my family, as well as my friends...it hit me hard. In a good way! Like I dunno, being at some kind of weird outdoor church. Dancing in the middle of that huge crowd, tears streaming down my face. I had no idea it would be like that.

LA weekly has a great review + setlist: http://blogs.laweekly.com/westcoastsound/2012/08/stevie_wonder_outside_lands_august_12_2012.php

(I read another review in a local rag that said Stevie was 'meandering' and 'indulgent' ... u_u )

http://www.towleroad.com/2012/08/stevie-wonder-some-people-who-think-theyre-gay-are-confused.html

The actual quote isn't really very declarative. Chalking this one up to "from a different generation," but it's still disheartening, even though I've been well aware that Stevie's ideas about the nuts and bolts of relationships have always been pretty reactionary. Doesn't take much effort for me to picture him being bewildered by the dynamics of male-male or female-female relationships.

yeah this is the guy who wrote "Superwoman."

Hah, that's almost exactly what I posted on FB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45ZSIeSsmwI

man oh man

was just listening to the 70s-era live boot that opens with a 17 minute contusion this morning... wish stevie would put out some of his valt of unreleased 70s stuff at some point.

Supposedly there's a clause in his contract stating that his unreleased material is to be destroyed when he dies. But that might only be studio stuff (which, if there's unreleased 70s material, arrg).

yeah, i'd heard that, and it is a cold comfort!

They say that Stevie Wonder's unreleased songs are 10 zillion light years away.

You've got to I've got to they've got to
We've got to They've got to We've got to

Conversation Peace's "Cold Chill" is excellent!

Loved Treat Myself off that album too.

He's doing a short US tour where he's doing all of Songs in the Key of Life. I think you need a citi card for today's presale

Scoop!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUgngvsWLlE

Not completely blind =/= not blind. Lots of legally blind people have enough sight to watch sports (Stevie has courtside seats), use cameras and otherwise interact visually with the their surroundings.

Retinopathy of prematurity (Stevie's diagnosis, caused by exposure to high oxygen concentrations in an incubator after premature birth) produces a spectrum of visual deficits, many people affected are left with at least some sight.

The fact that Stevie wears sunglasses all the time is itself an indicator that he's not totally blind (or else the ambient light levels wouldn't affect him).

My Dad's blind but not completely so, he wears dark glasses even indoors. His friends who have no sight at all usually don't bother wearing glasses, there's no point.

Wouldn't be a surprise if Berry Gordy and co had decided to market Stevie as "blind" without bothering to explain the details.

Also, you'd be surprised what blind people can do. Ray Charles use to fly his plane, and he swore he could land* it too, though nobody would let him.

*he had a plan where he would bust the glass on the dials with his lighter and read them by touch

Even if stevie wasn't blind he'd still be the eighth wonder of the world.

what i wouldn't do for an LP of stevie's demos of sleeping alone, bring your sweet stuff home to me, his tracks for syreeta and minnie, etc...

"Do I Do" is so fantastical

YES

If there were another 20 minutes of it I would want to hear them all

Do NOT want to see this thread revived this year.

oh give me a break

I got "musical aquarium" on cassette, thing bumps

I love this man

I have some affection for the Jose Feliciano version of "Golden Lady" tbh.

hard 1000% agree with your #1 choice.

Have ben thinking lately how great an album of his demos of songs he gifted to other artists would be, a la the recent Prince posthumous release

like, stevie-sung versions of bad weather, baby bring your sweet stuff home to me, perfect angel... that would be amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TAC7aEegUc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNZRJB952b0

I think I've said this before here, but that modulation from "Perfect Angel" into "Loving You" is breathtaking.

What was the sendspace file Milton Parker linked to above, now long dead? The actual 16 track tapes of Superstition??

Makes me so sad that Stevie doesn't want his unreleased material ever to be heard(seriously, he wants the masters junked after he dies), you only imagine what he must have stashed away in the vaults from his golden seventies period.

I hope Stevie has a Max Brod in his life...

Happy birthday, dude. Let me put the spotlight on this jam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEK7tMxXRpo

Dud.

Oh, wait, I thought this was about Greta Van Fleet. I meant classic, sorry Stevie.

"A Seed's A Star" is so fantastic I only wish it didn't sound like it was emerging from a transistor radio.

and of course this Wonder-ful creation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGhSJIMHeoo

During lockdown, I took the time to re-evaluate his post-Hotter than July recordings. Robert Christgau's always defended those records, and while I don't think they're very consistent records (much less great ones), Christgau wasn't completely wrong. Barring some health or mental issue, talent doesn't completely dry up overnight for artists like Stevie Wonder, where not a single memorable hook or melody is suddenly beyond their ability. He was completely overshadowed as an innovator thanks to Prince and Michael Jackson, and he still had a weakness for syrupy glop, but he still crafted a few good tunes every now and then.

Yeah, I rediscovered "Never In Your Sun" this last year and cherish it fully.

A Time for Love in particular suffers from post-'90s CD-era bloat, but, damn, it's got jams. And he was still stretching as a balladeer.

This resequenced version of the most approachable material on Plants would've made for a still eccentric listen but still far more agreeable as part of the magnificent 1972-1982 streak.

Side A
"Send One Your Love" – 4:01
"Outside My Window" – 5:29
"The Secret Life of Plants" – 4:17
"Race Babbling" – 8:51

Side B
"Black Orchid" – 3:47
"Same Old Story" – 3:44
"Power Flower" – 5:29
"Come Back as a Flower" – 4:59
"A Seed's a Star/Tree Medley" – 5:53

Side B not quite as seamless with songs coming at you in complementary keys, but hey, I worked with what I had.

Ah thanks, I'll try your version ! Never managed to get into that album although I love all the ones before (and even some after... well, Hotter and parts of Square...).

You could even stick in "Kesse Ye Lolo De Ye" of the latter half of "Voyage to India" as something to give Side A some more space if you wanted.

I'd miss "Ecclesiastes" in that version.

So after listening to this version I like it ! Basically all ballads/smooth songs.
I could do without "Race Babbling" which is fun but a bit silly and far too long for its own good.

I could never do without 'Race Babbling'!

Just a heads-up: There's some good discussion of Stevie Wonder by Hanif Abdurraqib and Fred Moten on the most recent Millennials Are Killing Capitalism Podcast

https://www.patreon.com/posts/hanif-abdurraqib-51211207 - starting around 45:40

anyone else look at the cover of Music From My Mind and thought damn this dude got some tiny hands??