Taking Sides: It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back vs. Straight Outta Compton

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Which of these 1988 early rap classics do you like better?

My vote goes to Straight Outta Compton.

― Rotten Dirt, Thursday, 20 May 2004 01:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Mine too, even though nation is way more consistent. But the first three tracks on SOC cannot be faded.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Nation by a mile, even if the title cut of SOC is the best thing on either.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

only one loses steam halfway through.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 20 May 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Because the other didn't have any steam to begin with.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 20 May 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

oh please.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

so what's the best track on "nation of millions"?

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:13 (twenty-two years ago)

honestly i've never thought of "straight outta compton" as an album. it sounds more like two eps by different groups pasted together and sold with a few bonus tracks.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:15 (twenty-two years ago)

straight out of compton has aged way more gracefully.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

straight outta compton has inspired way more "straight outta..." titles

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:18 (twenty-two years ago)

best track on NOM: "Rebel without a Pause"

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:20 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, PE sure were brilliant with their punny, substitutive wordplay

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

so what's the best track on "nation of millions"?
-- vahid

'Louder Than A Bomb'. Or maybe 'Don't Believe the Hype'. Or maybe 'Rebel'.

I vote for NWA's less consistent record, because of the first 4 tracks. The PE record is a little too consistent, too long, and drops off right and the end. Too many filler tracks. Still amazing though.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

how about niggaz4life vs apocalypse 91?

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Nations and "Caught, Can We Get a Witness?".

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

"extra special thankz to ... all the gangsters, dope dealers, criminals, thieves, vandals, villians, thugs, hoodlums, killers, hustlers, base heads, hypes, winos, bums, arsonists, police, maniacs & bad ass kids for listening"

straight outta compton has better liner notes.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:27 (twenty-two years ago)

another reason this is unfair: three rappers versus one rapper (yes, i know).

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

SOC, easily.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Though to be fair, it has been tainted by everything Chuck D has done since the album came out.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:29 (twenty-two years ago)

And Dre, Ice Cube and Easy-E all peaked after SOC. So maybe it's a little unfair.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Nations and "Bring the Noise". But "Night of the Living Baseheads" has my fave moment on the record:

[um, sample attribution I don't remember]:"1,2,3,4,5,6 kick it!"
[Run sample]:"A few years ago.."
Chuck: "I put this together to-"
[Aretha sample]:"ROCK!"
Chuck: "-the bells that boost the dose," etc

Two brilliant life-changing records. But PE came first and will always be nearest and dearest to my heart. I never thought Straight Outta Compton had any filler at the time. In retrospect, sure, there are a couple superfluous tracks on the second side. Back in the day though, we just put the sucker on and let it play.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

t/s: "something 2 dance 2" vs. "mind terrorist" / "show em watcha got" / "security of the first world"

(three of the most tension-filled hip hop instrumentals ever!)

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

(gah; "the bells of those that" etc)

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm surprised nobody's mentioned "black steel". in my mind "black steel" competes with everything on SOC except the title track.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:33 (twenty-two years ago)

one is one of the great records. the other is a notch above a piece of shit.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

how about niggaz4life vs apocalypse 91?

shouldn't that be vs "fear of a black planet"?

how about "NWA and the Posse" vs. "yo! bum rush the show"?

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:36 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post HAHAHA but i've no idea which is which!!!

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

try listening to them

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Matos "by a mile" is an overstatement, I mean I love Nation but "Gangsta Gangsta"? "Straight Outta Compton"? "Express Your" fucking "Self"? "Fuck tha" motherfucking "Po" fucking "lice"? Maybe I'm pullin' some you-had-to-be-there bullshit or something, but in southern California Straight Outta Compton rang like Waterford crystal. I have seriously never experienced anything like it, especially when I saw how the adolescents on the locked ward loved it. To them, Public Enemy was fun, but N.W.A. was killer, which struck me then & strikes me now as a meaningful distinction.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i am - it's like one of those optical illusions where it switches back and forth as you look at it!

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

ha gabbneb I don't know which one you mean is which but you're wrong either way!!!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

both are 91 vahid

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

AH now i see...

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

by a mile isn't an overstatement at all

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:41 (twenty-two years ago)

yes it is so there

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:42 (twenty-two years ago)

NOM by a mile, maybe by two miles. The album is great from start to finish (my fav is prophets of rage), and the only filler are the transition tracks that are basically MEANT to be filler. You need a breather, after all.

The fact that everyone is picking a different favorite track from NOM is further evidence of its superiority. If you ask 20 people what their favorite track on SOC is, you will get a total of 3, MAYBE 4 answers. With NOM, I bet you get 8-9. I can listen to people argue for SOC (I mean, I agree, John, those SONGS you list were unbelievable), but the bottom line is that I NEVER get the urge to hear a single song from side 2.

Plus, NOM still has my favorite intro ever for a hip hop album.

Go get a late pass! Step!

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

this one is too close to call for me...I agree with some of the points both J0hn and Matos have made...

actually I might take Nation if forced, because of vahid's excellent point about the short instrumentals....they are amazing little bits.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

this is kinda surprising coming from you Matos! the beats: they're totally electro, not that you're a big electro head or anything but I'd think you'd have love for a record whose heart has some dance floor in it

I don't know, I love NOM but everybody gets so rockist when they talk about it

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm rooting for the other team and all, but "Cold Lamping With Flavor" can't go unmentioned!

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

also Ice Cube's meter & rhyme slays Chuck D's eight ways to Sunday, and always has

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know, I love NOM but everybody gets so rockist when they talk about it

I was just going to say that PE's classic rock canon love is working against them BIG TIME on this thread....

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

also Ice Cube's meter & rhyme slays Chuck D's eight ways to Sunday, and always has

Not to mention his acting. TS: Barbershop vs. An Alan Smithee Film: Burn Hollywood Burn

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously though, solo Cube slays everything by PE and NWA combined.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

hooray for rockism!

xpost haha yeah that War & Peace was some kind of masterpiece no doubt!

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously though, solo Cube slays everything by PE and NWA combined.

Amerikkka's Most Wanted is basically just a perfect mix of PE and NWA, so it's only logical.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh come on, that's like discrediting PE becusae of Chuck D's Air America show.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

"Extradited" from The War Disc is about as perfect as a song can get!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd think you'd have love for a record whose heart has some dance floor in it

Nation has some dancefloor in it too!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever happened to Mr. Short Khop?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

War and Peace has "Pushin' Weight" though. I take it all back, Cube! I never meant to imply disrespect.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Nation's got rather more Fillmore than dance floor

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

what's holding me back from saying "nation of millions" is the idea of being marooned on a desert island with it. i imagine after a few years chuck d's monotonous flow (big xpost back to j0hn) would be maddening. there's just a lot more you can do in the way of entertainment with three mcs (four if you count ARABIAN PRINCE!)

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I WAY prefer Chuck as a lyricist, and if Cube's more elastic Chuck's still underrated in that dept. and the idea that NOM isn't danceable is a fucking joke.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

btw "Pushin' Weight" while great is even greater if you sing the chorus as "Whoa-whoa, I put bananas in my pudding"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

plus I totally prefer PE's production. Dre is the most overrated producer alive. really takes a genius to loop old funk hits and TURN UP THE FUCKING DRUMS, dude.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, if we're going that route, what was Chuck D doing when "You Can Do It" came out? Confrontation Camp?

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

tons of x-post

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

they're both great and influential and world-changing records - but if we're gonna bring up "rockism" and Chuck D.'s later work ruining Nation, we have to also bring up that not all hip-hop inspired by SOC has necessarily been so hot, either.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

BTW mc ren is plenty underrated, at his best he's as good as chuck d = see "if it ain't ruff"

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

"Dopeman" is on Side 2!

― dave q, Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

and plz don't talk about "no he hires ppl to replay them, he doesn't sample" same fucking diff. and I like samples and looped old hits but Dre adds very little to them imho.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

plus I totally prefer PE's production. Dre is the most overrated producer alive. really takes a genius to loop old funk hits and TURN UP THE FUCKING DRUMS, dude.

hooray for rockism!

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

J0hn's resorting to charges of "rockism" = he automatically loses the arg

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Cube's not just more elastic, he's a better writer on every count - his narratives flow more smoothly & naturally, he switches persona a lot more convincingly, he didn't write "She Watch Channel Zero"...he's just better. Chuck's not "underrated," Jesus, he's one of the all time greats Matos! Did somebody make you listen to Straight Outta Compton right after a bad breakup or something?

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

NWA were definitely funnier. Chuck D's words often had rhyme and metre at the expense of total, crystal clear coherence. Eg, his argument for sampling on 'Caught, Can I Get A Witness'. Not that NWA were any more apprised of legal niceties, or anything, but I found their arguments about police hypocricy on 'F*** Tha Police' beautifully laid out in neat little set pieces. Until this record the Bomb Squad were the masters of setting a theatre scene, sound effects and all, but I think NWA's staging was more vivid in the mind's eye. You can actually almost see those redneck cops being dragged out of the courtroom, swearing obscenities, in the face of NWA's blatant kangaroo court.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

And what about Flava Flav?

He is cold lampin. He took the g up state cold campin.

To the poconos, I believe it was.

What's not fun about that?

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post: Colin, too.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I do have to admit that for some awful reason I like Eazy Does It better than SOC so maybe that disqualifies me entirely.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

(four if you count ARABIAN PRINCE!)

Aieee! Another point for PE!

(btw I have a cassette copy of Arabian Prince's 89ish(?) solo album Brother Arab, I'll be accepting bid via email)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

saying Jim Jarmusch ruined "Cold Lampin' with Flavor" could possibly the most rockist argument ever.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post: Colin, too.

Haha, I was making a joke. See Matos' earlier post

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Eazy Does It has some of Cube's best rhymes on it stence!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Nation of Millions. NWA doesn't date well and proved to be not enduring at all.

― I Wish You Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

his rhythm is underrated, J0hn; he's consistently (and not completely inaccurately) accused of being stiff. but he switches meter and whatnot a lot more easefully than it sounds at first. that's my point there.

and re: rockism--fuck you too, asswipe

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

what's wrong with "She Watch Channel Zero?" It's got some of the funniest lines ever in it, when Flavor talks about the Super Bowl!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

that's what I'm saying J0hn - I like SOC but I prefer EDI and think it's a better record.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

How did this become so heated?

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry about that Colin I was getting overheated there, long day etc.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Cube is probably a better storyteller overall, including the stuff he wrote for E, but that is only one aspect of being a rapper, which is only one aspect of making a great hip hop record.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

anyway the best post-SOC pre-Chronic LA hiphop was THE DOC anyway.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Not at all, Matos. One doesn't get involved in this kind of discussion without welcoming some heat.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

haha xpost

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry about that Colin I was getting overheated there, long day etc.

Haha, no problem, I might have to put on "My Summer Vacation" to calm down.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Cube is the better rapper, but Chuck is the better everything else.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, if we're going that route, what was Chuck D doing when "You Can Do It" came out? Confrontation Camp?

Hyenas in the Desert to thread!!!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Can any of the SOC apologists talk about how great side 2 is? Because, to me, that's where PE pulls away down the stretch.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex hasn't seen An Alan Smithee Film..., obv.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

man when Matos, whose head I fully intend to smooch in two days even if I have to sneak up behind him to do it, is calling me an "asswipe" for pointing out that people tend to talk a lot about "whole album" tropes when NOM comes up, it's then time to quit the thread. Wess Coass, out here in California we do our job, etc

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

no no no! It was aimed at Colin dude, and I apologized.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha I didn't mean acting. Shit, ANACONDA!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

plus they united for "Burn Hollywood Burn!" 'and now for today's feature presentation - Driving Miss Daisy'...

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Worst CAMEO ever by Cube to boot.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe people talk about Nation in terms of a "whole album" because it's a great album? Shocking concept, I know, but...

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm somewhat amused to see the word "asswipe" in print...it's been too long...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

anyway, if the thread asks "which albums do you prefer," as this one does, OF FUCKING COURSE I'm going to answer it to the letter. but even if the thread title were "which of the two had the best singles," I'd say it was a tie.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

hahaha Alex but didn't Cube write his cameo for "Burn?"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah Cube on "Burn Hollywood Burn" ain't so great, although I can recite the whole rhyme from memory, oddly enough - not Big Daddy Kane's though

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=1:302684~C !!!???? INFO, PLZ

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, also j0hn what's wrong about talking about whole albums?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

pimpin' ain't easy, J0hn.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

But Kane's cameo is great!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I can TOTALLY recall Kane's from memory; it's my favorite thing on the song. (even more than the *Driving Miss Daisy* thing)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post. ahaha, Kevin Bacon as "Jorge"

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe people talk about Nation in terms of a "whole album" because it's a great album? Shocking concept, I know, but...

yes but stence there are a bunch of ways to consider albums. There are a lot of spotty albums I'd consider better than plenty of other fantastic-front-to-back albums, and I'd even argue that pretty much all my favorite albums are bolstered by their weak spots. I'm not interested in tours de force, I think they get boring fast. (=I have not felt compelled to play nation in forever; I play compton fairly often, yes even side two). I am a big lover of the album format, it's practically all I ever think about! But I also prefer flawed raw things to overpolished things, and while "Cold Lampin'" comes close to redeeming Nation in this aspect, there's an immediacy and an ugliness to Compton that makes it always sound loads better to me.

Hating on Dre's beats I cannot understand, I mean I just cannot

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"overrated" /= "hate," duh

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"Guess I figure you to play some jiggabo/One the plantation, what else can a nigga do" destroys "Ice Cube is down with the PE/Now every single bitch wanna see me".

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

quick, somebody write a verse around that rhyme

Alex in SF OTMFM SUPREMO

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I can think of very few albums which struck me as immediate as NOM did when I first heard it. It hasn't aged much in this regard for me either.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"For what she does Aunt Jemima is the perfect term/Even if now she's got a perm"

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"Don't fight the power, shoot the motherfucker" works for me as the end of what I've already owned is a wack verse

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"Big Daddy is smooth, word to mother/ Let's check out a flick that exploits the color"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

mine was an example of what not to do, obv.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

J0hn do you as a rule think that all albums in all genres are better if they're "inconsistent?"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The Bomb Squad unhinge their collective jaw and eat this entire thread whole.

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

John, you're not saying that SOC is better because it has more weak spots, are you?

I don't really hear SOC as less polished--it sounds extremely produced to me, or more raw, unless by more raw you mean it is more violent, and has more cursing.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean if we're going into other albums "So-called chosen, frozen/apology made to whoever pleases/still they got me like Jesus" isn't exactly Rilke

xpost stence I don't know if I wanna go quite as blanket-statement as "all albums in all genres," thanks

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:13 (twenty-two years ago)

That rhyme is better if you include the first line, John.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't really hear SOC as less polished--it sounds extremely produced to me

god but there's so much empty space on it - compare to comparatively lush Nation

I have to go to bed now, I feel like I'm arguing in favor of garage rock at a Beatles convention or something

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha John you are a such a drama queen.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I also prefer the way Chuck D. wanders from the topic and attacks a million different things all at once to Ice Cube's organized narrative thing.

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I knew people would be going crazy on this thread. I am suprised I didnt hear some gats going off.

Both these records are killer. I do think that I like SOC better though for some reason. The beats are just killer and Ice Cube's lyrics kill it. PE I love more overall up until Apocalypse 91 anyway.

― hector (hector), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

re: polished ... hey how about the end of "parental discretion..."?? that's some SMOOVE JAZZ!!

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

well J0hn I'm just wondering about your methodology here - would inconsistency be a plus for hip-hop but a minus for death metal? I'm not making a value judgement, I'm moreso just fascinated to understand any reasoning behind that (not saying that you believe that specific example, either).

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

John, I am not sure exactly what you mean by empty space. I mean, there are the skits/quieter bits, but those don't seem any emptier than, say, "The Security of the First World, which is basically just a breather.

Straight Outta Compton the SONG, for example, sounds as dense as anything on NOM. I mean, it has the sounds of someone getting the shit kicked out of them, fer chrissakes.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Nations, no question. And the best track is "Return Of THe Living Baseheads".

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

hell yes, Dan. That's probably the best video ever.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Another vote for Straight off the streets of muthafuckin' COMPTON, beyyotch!!! It's the Never Mind the Bollocks of rap: There's only three good songs on it, but those three songs are as good as any songs ever made ever.

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow, in reading over this thread, I just realized something -- as much as I know a slew of songs from both albums, I've never heard either of them all the way through! Weird.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned that makes you qualified to be the impartial judge, then!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:28 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - the jazz on "Parental Discretion"! I love that track. When Eazy-E comes in for his verse it's awesome - "Little did they know, that I would be arrivin'" etc

I actually heard Eazy Duz It first. THAT's actually more of a complete record, really. But it's all the personalities that make Straight Outta Compton so much fun.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:28 (twenty-two years ago)

didn't EDI come out first?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned that makes you qualified to be the impartial judge, then!

If I got around to hearing them again sometime soon, sure (but I'm in a Seefeel mood right this second, so excuse me).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I think they actually came out on like the same day or something! But I might be wrong.

The best part about it, though, was teasing out all the sample sources between the two records; because various songs had been released earlier as singles, they'd then been sampled themselves for various album tracks across the two records. It all got a little gloriously disorienting.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

EDI actually sticks with me as a collection of vivid moments, thanks to the friend who had it. Oddly enough, the one that's most vivid is the "I like rock but I prefer hip-hop" part, though doubtless I've got the words wrong.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr. Snrub is so OTM it's amazing.

― Sym (shmuel), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:42 (twenty-two years ago)

PE gets my sentimental vote because they were the group that got me into hip-hop. I didn't start listening to NWA until much, much later.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 20 May 2004 03:42 (twenty-two years ago)

The best song on SOC is "parental discretion iz advized"... "group rap" over live bass/drums. The DOC's first verse is classic, Ice Cube's is legendary and Eazy's is very funny. See also "The Grand Finale" on The DOC's record (which is better IMO) and the last song on Above The Law's first record (which is allright).

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

PE all the way.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Question: does anyone think any other hip hop record released in 1988 comes close? Critical Beatdown? The Great Adventures of Slick Rick? Follow the Leader?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

ooooh those are good records though.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Well yeah that's why I'm asking!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Strictly Business meant the most to me, after these two. When did Power come out?

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know if I could pick one, although weirdly enough I don't own any of those anymore. I really need to get some hip-hop classics back in my collection.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:34 (twenty-two years ago)

when i was thirteeeeeen... it was a very good year...

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:36 (twenty-two years ago)

My sentimental vote goes to POWER.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:37 (twenty-two years ago)

that list is nearly untouchable (I'd drop the Fresh Prince).

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:38 (twenty-two years ago)

ah shit, wait, fuck it - By All Means Necessary came out '88. So that's definitely 3rd. THEN Strictly Business. And yeah, Power was '88 so that's 5th. Then probably EB & Rakim. Then, hell, I dunno, Sir Mix A-Lot's Swass or something. I wasn't sitting around listening to Ultramagnetics back then, sorry.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:39 (twenty-two years ago)

In Control Vol. 1 isn't on there even!!!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

how about a list of top 88 singles?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

a trusty cassette of Steady B.'s Let the Hustler's Play actually used to get a ton of play when I did my pizza delivery routes.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, I can't even front: I was all over Will Smith.
C'mon, I was thirteen! I knew all the lyrics to Nightmare on My Street and sang them loudly on the band bus.
They were easier kinder days...

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Nah, we all rocked He's the DJ, I'm the Rapper. Solid record. It's just got some stiff competition.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Ego Trip's 1988 List:
Rob Base & DJ E-Z Rock: "It Takes Two" (Profile)
Eric B & Rakim: "Paid in Full (Seven Minutes of Madness Remix)"(4th & B'way)
Big Daddy Kane: "Ain't No Half Steppin'" (Cold Chillin')
Boogie Down Productions: "My Philosophy" (Jive)
Run-D.M.C.: "Run's House"/"Beats to the Rhyme" (Profile)
Public Enemy: "Don't Believe the Hype" (Def Jam)
Marley Marl featuring Masta Ace, Craig G, Kool G Rap & Big Daddy Kane: "The Symphony" (Cold Chillin')
De La Soul: "Plug Tunin'" (Tommy Boy)
EPMD: "You Gots to Chill" (Fresh)
Biz Markie: "Vapors" (Cold Chillin')
Doug E. Fresh & the Get Fresh Crew: "Keep Risin' to the Top"(Reality)
J.V.C Force: "Strong Island" (B-Boy)
Biz Markie: "The Biz is Goin' Off" (Prism)
Mark 45 King: "The 900 Number" (Tuff City)
Boogie Down Productions: "Jack of Spades"/"I'm Still #1 (Numero Uno)" (Jive)
Eric B. & Rakim: "Microphone Fiend" (Uni)
MC Lyte: "10% Dis" (First Priority)
Stetsasonic: "Sally"/"DBC Let the Music Play" (Tommy Boy)
Jungle Brothers: "Because I Got It Like That" (Idlers)
De La Soul: "Jenifa (Taught Me)"/"Potholes in My Lawn" (Tommy Boy)
Chubb Rock featuring Hitman Howie Tee: "Caught Up (Remix)" (Select)
2 Much: "Wild Thing" (Warlock)
Marley Marl featuring Craig G: "Droppin' Science" (Cold Chillin')
L.L. Cool J: "Goin' Back to Cali"/"Jack the Ripper" (Def Jam)
Chubb Rock featuring Hitman Howie Tee: "Road to the Riches" (Cold Chillin')
MC EZ & Troup: "Get Retarded" (Fresh)
Stetsasonic: "Talkin' All That Jazz" (Tommy Boy)
Queen Latifah: "Wrath of My Madness"/"Princess of the Posse" (Tommy Boy)
MC Lyte: "Paper Thin" (Priority)
Positive K: "Step Up Front" (First Priority)
MC Shan: "I Pioneered This" (Cold Chillin')
Chill Rob G: "Dope Rhymes"/"Chillin'"/"Wild Pitch" (Wild Pitch)
Kid 'n Play: "Do This My Way" (Select)
Super Lover Cee & Casanova Rud: "Super- Casanova" (DNA International)
Antoinette: "Hit 'em with This"/ "Unfinished Business" (Next Plateau)
King Tee: "Bass" (Capitol)
J.J. Fad: "Supersonic" (Dream Team)
Sir Mix-a-Lot: "Posse on Broadway" (Def American)
Supreme Nyborn: "Versatility" (Payroll)
Kid 'n Play: "Gittin' Funky" (Select)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I was thirteen too, and I thought Will Smith was corny. That's the kinda stuff my older brother was into (although he got into De La and better stuff later thanks to me).

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:44 (twenty-two years ago)

anything going on in Miami that year?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I got maybe 2/3rds of that on mp3. It might be time to fire up the P2P here.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:45 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i was about to post that alex

― Sym (shmuel), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:45 (twenty-two years ago)

'87 was "one and one... we havin' some fun, in the BEDROOM all day and all of the night"

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I was listening to NWA and PE (and lots of metal). I didn't hear a lot of the rest of this for a while.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I like just about everything on that list.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:47 (twenty-two years ago)

a lot of that stuff on the list was on regular Yo! MTV Raps and BET Rap City rotation.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

FWIW, "Microphone Fiend" is the best single on that list. But dayummm, that's tough competition.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:49 (twenty-two years ago)

and I am gonna posit that there's a subtle (and not so subtle) Miami bass influence on like 50% of that list. I think I remember arguing with a kid at school at the time that Fresh Prince sucked because he wasn't bassy enough.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha you lucky cable having bastard!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:50 (twenty-two years ago)

my sentimental favorite would probably be "Ain't No Half Steppin'"

"I'm Big Daddy/ Like your father..."

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:50 (twenty-two years ago)

dude I was 13 and in middle school and both my parents worked - when I got home I had nothing else to do but watch TV.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:51 (twenty-two years ago)

God, that Emotions sample on "Ain't No Half Steppin'" is like the best thing EVER.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:53 (twenty-two years ago)

so good:

I’m with this
I’m just gonna sit here laid back to this nice mellow beat, you know
And drop some smooth lyrics
Cause it’s ‘88
Time to set it straight, knowwhatI’msaying
And ain’t no half stepping
Word
I’m ready>

Rappers stepping to me they want to get some
But I’m the Kane, so yo, you know the outcome
Another victory
They can’t get with me
So pick a BC date cause you’re history
I’m the authentic poet to get lyrical
For you to beat me, it’s gonna take a miracle
And, stepping to me, yo that’s the wrong move
So what you on, Hobbs, dope or dog food?
Competition I just devour
Like a pitbull against a Chihuahua
Cause when it comes to being dope, hot damn
I got it good, now let me tell you who I am
The B-I-G D-A-double D-Y K-A-N-E
Dramatic, Asiatic, not like many
I’m different, so don’t compare me to another
Cause they can’t hang, word to the mother
At least not with the principal in this pedigree
So when I roll on you rappers, you better be
Ready to die because you’re petty
You’re just a butter knife, I’m a machete
That’s made by Ginzu, wait until when you
Try to front, so I can chop into
Your body, just because you try to be basing
Friday the 13th, I’mma play Jason
No type of joke, gag, game, puzzle or riddle
The name is Big Daddy, yes Big not little
So define it
Here’s your walking papers, sign it
And take a walk
As the Kane start to talk, cause...

Ain’t no half-steppin’
I’m the Big Daddy Kane
(3 times)

My rhymes are so dope and
The rappers be hoping
To sound like me, so soon I’ll have to open
A school of MCing, for those who want to be in
My field in court
Then again on second thought
To have MC’s coming out sounding so similar
It’s quite confusing for you to remember
The originator, and boy do I hate a
Perpetrator, but I’m much greater
The best oh yes I guess suggest the rest should fess
Don’t mess or test your highness
Unless you just address with best finesse
And bless the paragraph I manifest
Rap prime minister, some say sinister
Non-stopping the groove, until when it’s the
Climax, and I max, relax and chill
Have a break from a take of me acting ill
Brain cells are lit, ideas start to hit
Next the formation of words that fit
At the table I sit, making it legit
And when my pen hits the paper, ahh shit!
I stop and stand strong over MC’s
And devour with the power of Hercules
Or Samson, but I go further the length
Cause you could scalp my cameo and I’ll still have strength
And no, that’s not a myth, and if you try to riff
Or get with, the man with the given gift of gab
Your vocab, I’ll only ignore
Be sleeping on your rhymes till I start to snore
You can’t awake me, or even make me
Fear you, son, cause you can’t do me none
So, think about it if you’re trying to go
When you want to step to me, I think you should know that...

Ain’t no half-steppin’
I’m the Big Daddy Kane
(3 times)

I appear right here and scare and dare
A mere musketeer that would dare to compare
Put him in the rear, back there where he can’t see clear
Get a beer, idea or near stare, yeah
So on to be want to be competition
Trying to step to me--must be on a mission
Up on the stage is where I’mma get you at
You think I’m losing?
Psst, picture that...

Ain’t no half-steppin’
(3 times)
Mister Cee, step to me...

The name is Big Daddy, you know, as in your father
So when you hear a def rhyme, believe that I’m the author
I grab the mic and make MC’s evaporate
The party people say, damn...that rapper’s great
The creator conductor of poetry
Et cetera, et cetera, it ain’t easy being me
I speak clearly so you can understand
Put words together like letter, man
Now that’s dictation, proceeding to my innovation
Not like the other MC’s, who are an imitation
Or an animation, a cartoon to me
But when I’m finished, I’m sure that you are soon to see
Reality, my secret technique
Because I always speak with mentality
I put my title in your face, dare you to base
And if you try and come get it, yo I’mma show you who’s with it
So if you know like I know, instead of messing around
Play like Roy Rogers and slooow doown
Just give yourself a break, or someone else will take
Your title, namely me, cause I’m homicidal
That means murder, cause I’m about to hurt a-
Nother MC, that try to get with me
I’ll just break him and bake him and rake him
and take him and mold him and make him
Hold up the peace sign...
Assalam Walaikum

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex, re: "PE and NWA and lots of metal"; me too. Plus weird blips: IceT and Young MC of all people.

can YOU sing the fastest rhyme?

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 04:59 (twenty-two years ago)

imyoungmcthatismynameandrockingitforyouismygamethatismygamebutwhatdoyouliketheyoungmcison themikeonthemikeandintheplacei'mrockingittotheviciousbasstheviciousbassthevicioushousei'mreallygonnamakeyouhypnotized hypnotizedandthenyougoneyourockingittothebreakadawnthebreakadawnthebreakofdcausemynameistheyoungmc youngmciswhati'mcalledi'mnottooheavynottootalli'mnottootalli'mneverthewacktheyoungmcgiveaheartattack heartattackiswhatigivei'mreallygonnamakeyouwanttoliveyouwanttoliveyouwanttodieyourockingitviciouscan'tdeny can'tdenyjustwhatyouheari'mrockingitdayweekmonthandyearmonthandyearandmonthanddayi'mreallygonnatakeyourbreathaway yourbreathawayyourbreathalizerrhymejustlikeasynthesizersynthesizermusicmachinerockthehouseyouknowwhatimean whatimeaniswhatisaygonnareallyrockthehousetodayyourocktodayyourocktonightyougonnareallydoitright doitrightanddoitwrongi'mgonnareallymakeyousingthissongyousingthissong(neverunderstoodthispart)causemynameistheyoungmc.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 05:06 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't believe i ate the whole thing.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Meanwhile, I couldn't name the capital of Wyoming without Google.
I am so lame.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Someone stole my copy of SOC like 12 years ago and I've never replaced it. I think it's about time.

I'll take Fear of a Black Planet over both of them.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 20 May 2004 05:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm way in the PE camp album-wise, but in retrospect it's interesting how much they seem like a road not taken. Like, SOC was clearly a sign of something muthafuggin huge on the horizon -- seemed so at the time, and seems so even more in retrospect. Whereas PE in retrospect seem like a great, weird branch that they kind of climbed out on and then sawed off. And it's not just Chuck and Flav, or the whole "conscious" rap thing, it's the totally unbelievable sound of Nations and Fear of a Black Planet. I agree that the Dre beats are sweet, and as an influence on a decade of platinum hip-hop, you can't gainsay the man. But that Bomb Squad shit was something else entirely. It's no wonder their stuff didn't turn out to be the future of hip-hop. I mean, it still sounds like the future. It was too far out, or too far in, or too far something. Too punk. One of the rare things Spin got right on one of their lists in recent years was putting NOM on their Top 50 Punk Albums. What they got wrong was putting it at like number 50 instead of number 5.

― spittle (spittle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 05:12 (twenty-two years ago)

dq otm wrt dopeman.

remember too that some of the best SOC trax had come out already. which means in a strictly historic sense there was more "new" going on with NOM. But NOM was introverting in rhythms and rhymes, pushing things denser in the same framework till they cracked. SOC was opening the possibilities up -- there was really not much further the NOM direction could have gone.

SOC is also the way funnier record.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 20 May 2004 06:38 (twenty-two years ago)

SOC has two good tunes. ITANOMTHUB is a better album, collection of songs in general and it has 'Louder than a bomb' & 'Black steel'.

I pity the foo'...

― tester again, Thursday, 20 May 2004 07:46 (twenty-two years ago)

ITANOMTHUB is a better album but i actually owned SOC and listened to it more as a kid, hmmm

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 20 May 2004 08:46 (twenty-two years ago)

oops otm re FOABP

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 20 May 2004 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone not think Fear Of A Black Planet is better than Nation Of Millions? (except rockists obvs)

I Ain’t Tha 1 is on side 2 of SOC!

NOM has three MCs counting Flav and Griff (surely he gets like three lines in a row somewhere (Baseheads?)), SOC has six counting Dre and Arabian Prince and the D.O.C (he gets a whole verse and the permission to deliver it!)

― kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 20 May 2004 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

NOM is a better album than FOABP. The production on the latter is probably better, but that's apples and oranges. I'm not sure it has better singles either

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, fuck singles, 911 Is A Joke almost sinks the album by itself due to massive radio overplay

― kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 20 May 2004 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

nice to see the term rockist take on an entirely new meaning.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 20 May 2004 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

(I agree with everyone saying Eazy Duz It is better than Straight Outta Compton.)

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

(I love you, VengaDan)

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

(I'm of the rare opinion that No One Can Do It Better is better than SOC or Eazy Duz It)

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

(and not just because JJ Fad guests on it)

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

(I think I wrote upthread that the DOC was the best thing about that whole scene, so maybe it's not that rare)

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

(he was from houston texas and your time ref is a little distorted because he's wrote and rapped on SOC and his album was released on the heals of SOC ("I know that DOC makes you want to take a valium/So take a bucket cuz upcoming is my album") and Eazy Duz It.)

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

(his album was released on the heels of SOC = post-SOC)

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

(i'm not arguing the fact, just the distortion because Ice Cube released 2.5 really great records during that time too)

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

(maybe the pre-Chronic qualifier is too confusing since there's a lot of time between release of SOC and release of Chronic.)

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

([{}])

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I believe DOC is even on NWA and the Posse, as part of the Fila Fresh Crew...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Nation of Millions is Classic from beginning to end. Straight Outta Compton is half Classic and half Dud.
I wouldn't want to live without either of them tho.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude ... I've gotta go smoke a bowl and think this one through. This is incredibly tough.

Both SOC and ITANMHB rank among my top 5 albums of all time, and I've never decided on the order.

Shit.

Easy-E vs. Flava Flav ?

― x Jeremy (Atila the Honeybun), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

please

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

NWA by a mile. No musical moment in my life compares even remotely to 12 year old me hearing "Straight Outta Compton" for the first time. I sincerely thought I was doing something illegal!

I liked PE ok, but I could see them on MTV. NWA I had to listen to at other people's houses, because there's no way I could have played that shit at home!

― Kris (aqueduct), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

they played "Express Yourself" on Yo! MTV Raps.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Nation all the way, no contest. "Gangsta Gangsta" is awesome.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

( ". . . is awesome however" obv.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(And NOM for all the obvious reasons. It seems light years ahead in terms of production, it's more consistent, the songs are so much memorable than all but the first three on SOC.)

(But I'll also admit that I liked PE in Grade 5 and never even heard NWA until 2nd year undergrad.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i think there is a divide over west coast vs. east coast preference at work here... also i sense some classism at work as well.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

LONG ISLAND VS. COMPTON FITE

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

It's definitely WC vs EC for me; I barely even recognized West Coast rap until Ice Cube's _The Predator_.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

x post

*cough*ahem*cough* Strong Island.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

classism which way? (xpost)

― x Jeremy (Atila the Honeybun), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

that's horribly depressing Dan...

you'd never heard MC Hammer, Too $hort, or Digital Underground?

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, in terms of imagination and what I could/wanted to relate to at the time, paranoid tales of an ordinary black man getting ambushed by racism at every turn >>> gangbanger lifestyle narrative.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's actually a Democrat vs. Republican thing, gygax!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

(haha gygax! are you being disingenuous?)

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

"Results 1 - 10 of about 526 for Eazy E + republican. (0.25 seconds)"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

tough call for me, so I'll side with the one I actually listen to the most which is, of course, Straight Outta Compton. I gotta be in a particular mood for PE, and Nation of Millions seems more stuck in its particular time - it's like an artifact encased in amber - I don't wanna say its dated cuz that's a pretty dismissive term and it is a great record, but I do have a problem separating the record from my memories of black culture circa '89 (bad fades, Cross Colors, Do the Right Thing, Yo! MTV Raps). Whereas Straight Outta Compton has maintained its immediacy - it still sounds like a block party and a riot and a beatdown at the hands of the police rolled into one and all that shit could be happening tomorrow. NOM sounds a little stuffy and self-righteous next to SOC.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd take Straight Outta Compton over Nation if Cube and Eazy were the only rappers on it. But they're not.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, fine - Nation of Millions, by 100 Miles and Runnin'

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't care much for either album, which is odd because I consider Fear of a Black Planet and efil4zaggin to be among the greatest albums ever made. I'll vote in favour of Compton, though, because I only like one song on Nation, and it's due almost entirely to the JBs sample that makes up the music.

didn't Cube write his cameo for "Burn?"

I've always thought it was funny that of the 3 rappers on the song, Ice Cube almost completely ignores the Hollywood bashing of the track and ended up having the only successful movie career of the 3.

― Vic Funk, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

SOC fans are GOP fans too.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

"due almost entirely to the JBs sample that makes up the music."

Are you referring to "Blow Your Head"? Or "The Grunt"?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure Eazy really was a Republican, even if he did go to a GOP fundraiser

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

not that he was anything else

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

MONEY TALKS, BULLSHIT WALKS

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

which is odd because I consider ... efil4zaggin to be among the greatest albums ever made.

yes, that is very odd. ???

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I might prefer NWA, but I'd still never have dinner with the President.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

YOUR $12 LET EAZY PAY $2500 A PLATE

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

unless you were like me and just taped that shit off friends' copies

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

hah! by the time I actually paid for a copy of Straight Outta Compton, Eazy was already dead.

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

my dad upon listening to a second of a shitty dub tape of Eazy Does It: "I invented the word 'motherfucker.'"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

it's funny cuz your Dad said it....

one of my favorite memories of SOC was having a cop hold up the album at a high school journalism seminar and explain why it shouldn't be protected as free speech. The cop then went on to chuckle to himself while detailing his various methods for hassling crips when he pulled them over (spelling everything on their tickets with "B"s, a la "Bompton", etc.)

I hate LA cops.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

fucking cops

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you referring to "Blow Your Head"?

Yup.

yes, that is very odd. ???

It's all in the production (cuz I certainly wouldn't champion the lyrical content); I'm as amazed by some of the sounds on there as I was when I was 15. I don't think Dre ever came close to this again, which is why I've always thought Yella probably was a lot more important than he seems to be thought of.

― Vic Funk, Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I will listen again. "100 miles and running" is great musically, the only other songs i remember are the jokey skits/ballads... isn't michelle on this record?

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

speaking of Dr. Dre's verse on Michel'le's "Nicety" is one of the worst verses in the history of music.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

the title track of 100 miles is breathtaking absolutely one of the most thrilling rap trax evah.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I will listen again. "100 miles and running" is great musically, the only other songs i remember are the jokey skits/ballads

"100 Miles..." isn't on that album (or did that EP get tacked on the reissue?).

See, I hear the album as a whole set piece, so when "I'd Rather Fuck You" or "Don't Drink That Wine" comes on, it always strikes me as part of the "story" the album is trying to tell (in contrast, whenever the live in England stuff comes on Nation of Millions, the album comes to an abrupt hault, and loses all momentum).

― Vic Funk, Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

"Blow Your Head" was only sampled on the first record, wasn't it?

After reading some more of the "first three songs only" comments about Straight Outta Compton, I gotta reiterate what dave said: "Dopeman" is on side 2. I mean, have the people saying this ever listened to the 2nd side? How could anyone not consider that one of the classic cuts from the record?

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, my bad. i haven't heard this in 14 years, i just remember that era of NWA and the production which you and M@tt have pointed out which I definitely remember as being great. I just remember being really let down with efil4zaggin, probably due to the lagging skits/ballads/commentary when i really was just looking for more of the same great tracks.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I mentioned on some other NWA thread that side 2 also has "I Ain't Tha One" (and "8-Ball", correct?) I don't buy that "only the first 3 great songs" malarkey.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously the only song I would take off the whole album is "Something Like That", and the only reason I'm saying that is because as I sit here and look at the track-listing, it's the only one I can't remember anything about! AND it's on side 1, whaddaya know. Heck, maybe I even like it, too. I'll have to listen to it again. "8 Ball" is side one (and YES, another big time classic, that doesn't fall amongst "the first three". sheesh)

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

"Blow Your Head" was only sampled on the first record, wasn't it?

Fuck, yr right. I went and looked at my record collection, it's "The Grunt" I was thinking of ("Blow Your Head" is technically by Fred Wesley & the JBs, FWIW).

― Vic Funk, Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't go with the "first 3 tracks" theory, but I think SOC's middling tracks sit closer to the middle than NOM's, which doesn't have a weak track on it.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

The songs on side 2 are not awful, and yes, dopeman is great. Again, SOC is a great record all the way through. But side 2 just isn't nearly as strong as side 2 of Nation.

Side 2 of Nation just has more great tracks: Night of the living bassheads, rebel without a pause, prophets of rage, Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos! Those are 4 GREAT tracks. Just classic songs. The only song I would call a classic on side 2 of SOC is dopeman.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

doesn't have a weak track on it.

That means you like "Party For Your Right To Fight"?

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

No actually Vic, I think I might be wrong! I mean, it's just a minor pedantic point, but I was kind of wondering myself.

I looked it up - I was thinking of that wild synth intro, which was sampled on Yo! (on "Public Enemy No. 1", I think); but the-breaks claim it was sampled on "Caught, Can I Get a Witness". So maybe they sampled it twice. I can't remember it on the latter song, frankly. I'll have to listen again. Yikes, sorry for the confusion.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

That means you like "Party For Your Right To Fight"?

Hmmm, okay, well, it's as good as "Something 2 Dance 2" ?

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Fear of a Black Planet would be a lot better (and at least as good as Nation) if you got rid of the pace-killing filler: tracks 6, 13-15, 17 and 19, the first 1:50 of track 8, the last 1:05 of track 10, and the first :15 of track 11.

That means you like "Party For Your Right To Fight"?

absolutely. and "black steel" beats the entirety of SOC.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

WAIT WAIT WAIT You're describing "Can't Do Nuttin' For Ya Man" A filler???

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

comparatively, yeah.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

You want six dollars for WHAT?

No way is that filler.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Flav doesn't do filler.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anybody remember the commercial for Flava Flav cereal that was on that Fight the Power home video thing they released? It was this cereal with little clocks in it.

"Now, inside this box, is minature clocks! You eat this cereal, you gon know what tiiiiiiime it is." *Pours milk on cereal*

"Listen." *Holds bowl up to his ear*

"That shit be tickin!"

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - I have that video still, somewhere. I haven't watched that thing at least 12 years .. maybe more. It was awesome though. I might have to look for that tonight.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 21 May 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Track 17? Isn't that "Leave This off Your Fucking Charts"? That's better than anything on Nation!

So maybe they sampled it twice. I can't remember it on the latter song, frankly. I'll have to listen again. Yikes, sorry for the confusion.

Nah, "The Grunt" was the track I meant to say. I listened to Nation this evening and when "Rebel Without A Cause" came on this confused me even more because I couldn't figure out which JBs song was sampled, or if they just kept sampling the same two songs over and over again (there's a song on Terminator X's first solo album where he used "Blow Your Mind"'s synth part again, so it's not like they were above doing that).

― Vic Funk, Friday, 21 May 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

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