Will Kanye West win P&J '04?

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It certainly seems that way, at the moment, doesn't it?

I'd imagine Loretta Lynn, Nellie McKay, the Streets, PJ Harvey, Franz Ferdinand, Modest Mouse Sleater-Kinney, Beck, Bjork, Eminem, Elliot Smith, and possibly Prince and Sonic Youth to place high. What else will contend? The Madvillain album? (I haven't gotten around to checking it out yet.) Where will Boy in da Corner end up this year--higher than it's #10 last year?

― Josh Timmermann (Josh Timmermann), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Congratulations, Josh, on starting the first P&J thread of the year. (I think I started it about this time last year!)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

D12 to just beat off The Vines and Sam and Mark.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sure it'll be more frontloaded with whatever comes out 4 months before the poll.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Loretta Lynn takes it by a landslide. (has there been a safer record since Love and Theft?)

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

no way in hell, Y.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I highly doubt the winner for the year has come out yet, but of what has, Kanye's probably the best bet (oh, the humility!).

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

no one gives a crap about Mike that's why I'm acting nasty

― skinner (nickalicious), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Bersuit Vergabarat runs away with it, natch.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Who's this dude wearing a bear suit now?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Cibula, check yr email.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Kanye and the Streets top 10. Nellie McKay and Prince will be lucky to make it to he top 50. The rest of those, assuming they're all released this year, will probably float around somewhere in between. And don't forget Drive-By Truckers, TV on the Radio, and maybe U2.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

>Sleater-Kinney, Beck, Bjork, Eminem, Elliot Smith<

I didn't even know any of these albums were coming out! Anyway, God, I don't wanna start thinking about this shit for five more months, at least. But it's hard not to. I've been handicapping Kanye and Loretta (and maybe The Grey Album) in my head, but maybe I'm wrong, esp. if enough people vote for Dizee to carry over his '03 votes. (The list at the top of this thread is so boring that I'm really depressed now.)

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

>Sleater-Kinney, Beck, Bjork, Eminem, Elliot Smith<

They may get pushed back--I'm just going by Metacritic's upcoming albums page.

― Josh Timmermann (Josh Timmermann), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

it's far too early, but for pure stats/ facts: this is the current Metacritic Top 10 2004 list

[Mr Rascal counts as 2004 as that is the US release date]

Metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/music/

1 Loretta Lynn
Van Lear Rose 95

2 The Icarus Line
Penance Soiree 90

3 Dizzee Rascal
Boy In Da Corner 89

4 Madvillain
Madvillainy 89

5 The Streets
A Grand Don't Come For Free 87

6 Kanye West
College Dropout 86

7 Sufjan Stevens
Seven Swans 84

8 Lali Puna
Faking The Books 84

9 Franz Ferdinand
Franz Ferdinand 84

10 Cee-Lo
Cee-Lo Green Is The Soul Machine 83

also

fast'n' bulbous
http://www.fastnbulbous.com/rock.htm

Mission Of Burma * ONoffOn (Matador)
Franz Ferdinand (Domino)
Fennesz * Venice (Touch)
TV On The Radio * Desperate Youth, Blood Thirsty Babes (Touch & Go)
Wilco * A Ghost Is Born (Nonesuch) Jun 22
Arto Lindsay * Salt (Righteous Babe)
The Walkmen * Bows And Arrows (Record Collection)
!!! * Louden Up Now (Touch and Go/Warp) Jun 8
Spektrum * Enter ... The Spektrum (Playhouse UK)
Sonic Youth * Nurse (Geffen) Jun 8
Tortoise * It's All Around You (Thrill Jockey)
Beta Band * Heroes To Zeros (Astralwerks)
Lali Puna * Faking The Books (Morr)
John Vanderslice * Cellar Door (Barsuk)
Cee-Lo * Cee-Lo Green Is The Soul Machine (Arista)
Animal Collective * Sung Tongs (Fatcat)
Telefon Tel Aviv * Map of What Is Effortless (Hefty)
Savath & Savalas * Apropa't (Warp)
Bark Psychosis * Codename: Dustsucker (Fire)
Nicolai Dunger * Here's My Song You Can Have It (Universal)
Madvillain * Madvillainy (Stones Throw)
Shalabi Effect * Pink Abyss (Alien 8)
To Rococo Rot * Hotel Morgen (Domino)
Califone * Heron King Blues (Thrill Jockey)
90 Day Men * Panda Park (Southern)
Laura Veirs * Carbon Glacier (Bella Union UK)
Stereolab * Margarine Eclipse (Elektra)

Sondre Lerche * Two Way Monologue (Astralwerks)
Amen * Death Before Musick (Eat URmusic/Columbia)
CocoRosie * La Maison De Mon Reve (Touch and Go)
Jim White * Drill A Hole In That Substrate And Tell Me What You See (Luaka Bop)
The Icarus Line * Penance Soiree (V2)
The Streets * A Grand Don't Come For Free (Vice)
Shannon Wright * Over the Sun (Quarterstick)
Old Time Relijun * Lost Light (K)
Mirah * C'mon Miracle (K)
Beauty Pill * The Unsustainable Lifestyle (Dischord)
Richmond Fontaine * Post To Wire (El Cortez)
Kerrier District (Rephlex)
Múm * Summer Make Good (Fat Cat)
Young Heart Attack * Mouthful Of Love (Beggars XL)
Gomez * Split The Difference (Virgin)
Mellow * Perfect Colors (Atmospheriques)
N*E*R*D * Fly Or Die (Virgin)
Valley of the Giants (Arts & Crafts)
Dani Siciliano * Likes... (K7)
Sufjan Stevens * Seven Swans (Sounds Familyre)
The Magnetic Fields * i (Nonesuch)
Delays * Faded Seaside Glamour (Rough Trade)
Grant Lee Phillips * Virgina Creeper (Cooking Vinyl)
Bikini Atoll * Moratoria (Bellaire)
Probot (Southern Lord)
cLOUDDEAD * Ten (Mush)
Einsturzende Neubauten * Perpetuum Mobile (Mute)
Kanye West * College Dropout (Roc-A-Fella)
Sixtoo * Chewing on Glass and Other Miracle Cures (Ninja Tune)
Deerhoof * Milk Man (Kill Rock Stars)
Air * Talkie Walkie (Source/Astralwerks)
Squarepusher * Ultravisitor (Warp)
Icarus Line * Penance Soiree (V2)
Juana Molina * Tres Cosas (Domino)

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Nickalicious dude
if you knew obscene Spanish
you would LOVE Bersuit

Argentina's best,
they are rowdy rock/ska/funk
dirty-mouthed bastards!

(and thanks to Martian
now I'm all depressed like Chuck.
thank god for these drugs!)

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

>the current Metacritic Top 10 2004 list <

This means very, very little in Pazz and Jop terms.

>fast'n' bulbous<

This means even less. (In fact, I have no idea what it is, even.)

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck: Do you think Courtney Love has any sort of shot at placing top 40?

― Josh Timmermann (Josh Timmermann), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

oh god.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

If Kanye West does win, I have a feeling there'll be "P&J Tokenism" discussion all over again.
I hope it doesn't come to this, though.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

no way will Dizzee
end up with a higher place
than he did last year

and I think, Matos,
that you underestimate
Loretta's appeal

especially to
daily/weekly newspaper
critics on this tip

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I can actually conceive of not voting for 10 albums this year.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

chuck, fast 'n' bulbous has yearly personal lists from 1965 onwards, he also does yearly summaries, take a look
http://www.fastnbulbous.com/index.html

recently also compiled a personal all time list:
The 500 Best Albums Since 1965
http://www.fastnbulbous.com/best_since_1965.htm

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Courtney SHOULD have a shot. She made a real good album, better than most of the ones listed on this thread so far. So yeah, I hope so. And perhaps. Liz Phair did wind up finishing last year, after all.

>no way will Dizzee
end up with a higher place
than he did last year<

So you're saying he won't get even half as many points as last year, Matt? Maybe you're right. But if he does, he could *win*, I think, since (I hate to belabor this), all his 2003 votes will carry over (except for ones from critics who voted for him again in 2004).

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I will definitely check out those bear suit dudes!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

nick their new album
translated: "Argentina!
Get Your Penis Up!"

(Sorry, I'll start a thread about these guys separately. But how can you not love a record where the first song concludes "To fuck is not to love...IT'S MUCH BETTER!"?)

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Metacritic counts for nothing on the P&J because you can't vote against for albums on the P&J list, unlike Metacritic, wherein you can. Thus "America's Sweetheart" could, and should, place. Or we could give it to, I dunno, Phixx.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think Lynn will win but she'll certainly place top 10 unless there's some kind of consensus landslide of, say, a dozen albums. and I think Nellie McKay will CERTAINLY be top 30 at least.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, my mother in law did call me raving about the Nellie. But is that a good thing?

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I love the album myself, and I know a lot of other people who do too. and if Rufus Wainwright is a perennial, she will be too.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Nellie's the only major label album I know I'm voting for.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

What happened to Usher, Anthony?

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I got the impression that the Nellie album (which I like okay, but which won't come near my own top 100 much less top 10) flopped commercially, and, like TV on the Radio (which I hate), everybody stopped talking about it after its first two weeks in the store. Maybe I'm wrong, though. I thought she was really gonna explode, and it didn't happen. Or is there somewhere I haven't been looking? (I'll have plenty of major label albums in my top ten, though every one of them might be country record, the way things have been going so far.)

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't heard the Usher album (my hunger to purchase it was diminished by "Confessions, pt. 2") but "Burn" will likely make my top 10 singles. Though who knows? there's already been so many great singles this year that it's hard to believe there's still 7 months to go.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Yancey OTM thanks to White's Law (which states that the White Stripes will top P&J every year they release an album, and if they don't release an album, then whatever project Jack White is even remotely involved in will win).

― Nick Mirov (nick), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

and I think its way too early to count Nellie McKay out commercially. The audience for that album isn't something that is found immediately but built up over time. Every so often I keep hearing random people announce their joy over discovering her.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

WHY DON'T YOU ALL JUST SLIT YOUR FUCKING THROATS YOU FUCKING CANCER. YOU CONTRIBUTE NOTHING TO THIS WORLD. YOU ARE WORSE THAN HITLER. FUCK OFF.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

y hunger to purchase it was diminished by "Confessions, pt. 2")

WHAT?

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

the Nellie album's only been out for like two months! it can't "flop commercially" when it's barely been released!

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

So you guys think Nellie's gonna take off Norah/*O Brother* stylee? I dunno; I'd say she's too much a weirdo for that to happen, not comforting enough, not tasteful in the right way for most aging boomers. (I mean, her album title is a PARODY of Norah's title, for crissakes.) Can't imagine any radio formats picking up on her either, unless she hits as a sort of novelty artist (like Beck and Eminem admittedly did, initially) or with some wacky video. So it COULD happen, I admit. And more power to her if it does; that'd be fun. Seems like a longshot though. Los Lonely Boys (way better album, #45 and climbing in Billboard with an album that actually came out last August) have that Norah/*O Brother spot locked up, if you ask me.

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think she's going to take off Norah-style, but I do think she's going to rise above "commercial flop" status.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll be surprised if Get Away From Me doesn't eventually go gold (especially since double CD's only have to sell half as many copies!)

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Then again, it's not like the vast majority of aging boomers give a shit who the (way more boring) Rufus Wainwright is, and that's not hurt HIM when it comes to Pazz and Jop time, so maybe it's a moot point. (But did Nellie even get great reviews? I was under the impression that they were mostly, deservedly, pretty mixed. Which means I doubt many people who wrote about her will vote for her.)

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

No more mixed then Rufus Wainwright's debut (which is a worthwhile comparison both commercially and pazz'n'jopally, as you note)

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

the Nellie album's only been out for like two months! it can't "flop commercially" when it's barely been released!

Right. Sony's pouring tons of money into promoting that record, and I don't think they've even begun to push it. They are still in the "grass roots" stage of their masterplan.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I think if Nellie were to release "Sari" as a single and put together some sort of attention-catching video for it, she'd hit big-time.

― Josh Timmermann (Josh Timmermann), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe you guys are right. But who do you think they're gonna try to sell it to? Who do you think her potential fans are? I can't imagine who Sony thinks is going to eventually buy that record...Beck fans? (How many of those are left these days?) The singer songwriter audience (audiences? Avril one or Fiona one or Sarah McLachlan one or Tori one?) is way too self-serious (so are most grown up ex indie kids, I bet); the rock and rap audiences will *hate her; the show tunes audience doesn't exist as record buyers, I don't think.

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

But who do you think they're gonna try to sell it to?

liberals, particularly women, who like to laugh and aren't afraid of cabaret

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Daily Show fans

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 24 May 2004 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, there's a couple hundred sales right there! (And a couple thousand more thanks to Jon Stewart!) (I mean, alright I agree, gold for a double album sounds like not an outlandish bet. But if they're really pouring tons of money into her campaign -- I had not idea, but I'll take your word on it -- isn't gold STILL a flop these days?)

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe they should give her a reality show, though; that might work.

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

You like the Los Lonely Boys?

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Monday, 24 May 2004 22:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I keep running across ads for it on CMT late at night.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Monday, 24 May 2004 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck, they are going to sell it to a whole bunch of demos. Every little constinuency you've mentioned, and more. It all snowballs.

A few years ago, people would've said "oh, how could Norah Jones sell several millions copies? No one buys jazz ballads anymore!" The trick is to appeal to people who "like a little bit of everything" and do not actually buy modern cabaret and showtunes albums, but like the IDEA of the music and want to expand their "eclectic" cd collections.

Also, there are a LOT of theatre geeks out there who will love the album, and probably don't even know it's out there just yet.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Monday, 24 May 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Basically, what I'm trying to say is: do not ever underestimate the buying power of the square demos.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Monday, 24 May 2004 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, maybe I'm just clueless. Heck, I kinda hope I am, to be honest.

And yeah, that Los Lonely Boys album is surprisingly good, sort of like if Santana made an album these days with a whole bunch of songs as catchy as "Smooth," but way prettier than that, and nowhere near as cynical. My initial reaction was my usual kneejerk dismissal of the thing as Stevie Ray Vaughan/Los Lobos style beer-commercial stodgniess, but I was wrong. Current hit "Heaven" is a SOUL record, and has a shot at my top ten singles list. (#56 in Billboard, and ha, the album just climbed ten more spots in a week, to #35! Best album of the year BY FAR Big & Rich jumps from 89 to 58; Loretta's at 41; Gretchen Wilson enters at NUMBER TWO!! Nellie McKay? Doesn't exist, sorry.) (Country chart: Gretchen #1, Loretta #5, Big & Rich #9.)

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Toby Keith and Kenny Chesney still in country top ten, too; that's five great albums (not even counting Lee Ann Womack's *Greatest Hits*, which is probably pretty great itself, given how good all her singles usually are); when was the last time THAT happened? Next week, I believe, Montgomery Gentry enters. (I SUPPOSE there is 2004 music that isn't country, but it's not real clear to me why anybody would particularly care. Just kidding. I think.)

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

(Well, okay, there is Toby Keith's and Montgomery Gentry's absolute asshole tendency toward fascism, and the past couple weeks haven't been a great time for tolerating THAT stuff. And the Pazz and Jop ballots don't even go out til well after November! But what the hell.)

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Toby Keith's and Montgomery Gentry's absolute asshole tendency toward fascism

Does that matter much in terms of enjoying the music? (Yes, overdiscussed music-fan question number 34314, but still.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 May 2004 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

when I saw Nellie two months ago it was a mix of older cabaret fans, gay men, and lotsa women. she has pretty widespread appeal--I mean, she's fucking opening for STING in Europe right now.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, Ned, believe it or not, despite how fucking amazing country music is this year, there are times when I find it completely depressing to put on country radio in my rentacar on the way to Bucks County. But yeah, on the other hand, if TK and MG are great(which they are), whether they're little Hitlers is basically a moot point.

xpost

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Which isn't to say their most dumbass political grandstands aren't often some of the worst things they do (which they often are), or that they'd be great if their politics weren't way more complicated than their belicosity frequently makes them seem (which they are).

― chuck, Monday, 24 May 2004 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

she has pretty widespread appeal--I mean, she's fucking opening for STING in Europe right now.

I get exactly what Matos is saying...and yet somehow these two points almost contradict each other.

Granted and well understood. It's not a Catch-22, this situation, it's more a 'hey, what can be done?' Unless one hopes that they have a great awakening or something, the answer is 'not much,' thus the conundrum etc. etc. see all various angst elsewhere about most everybody regarding lyrical sexism and objectification and history of pop music to thread...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

somehow these two points almost contradict each other

no they don't.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

It's just that Sting himself seems to have transcended concepts of mainstream appeal to be, you know, there. Like a gas station.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

uh, no. people buy his records and attend his concerts in great number. he does not appear on your street corner and people are not by necessity forced to do business with him. ergo, he has mainstream appeal.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

You're taking this far too seriously!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:30 (twenty-two years ago)

haha toby keith
just said in the TV Guide
he's a democrat!

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Roxor!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

That doesn't shock me in the slightest.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually by the end of October the majority of his fans MIGHT even be Democrats.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

All this yakkity-yack has convinced me to listen to the Nellie again. And one of Chuck's comments reminded me that there's a new Fiona Apple due this year, too. You never know with a nut like her.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

and since Nellie in crit-response terms basically = Rufus + Fiona + Randy Newman, top 20 easy.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 24 May 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I just got the Kanye record yesterday and I'm befuddled at the critical fawning. It's a nice record (granted I've only listened to it once, heard snippets several times) but it doesn't strike me as all that different or unique from other hip hop shit out there - it's like a slightly poppier backpacker album. Maybe I'm missing something.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 24 May 2004 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

You're missing all the good will.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

On the album or for it?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha both!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I think lots of crits really wanted Kanye to make an album that would follow Outkast in being, y'know, pop but worthy. And if they focus on "All Falls Down" and "Jesus Walks" and "Family Business" and "Through The Wire" and ignore a lot of the rest, the album fulfills that desire quite well. And he gets all the flow-on points from "You Don't Know My Name" etc. for people who think albums are more important than singles.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

kanye gets much love
because he's an emo guy
in producer's clothes

self-critique, softly;
anger, but not scary rage;
brilliant marketing

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

yes otm - the cover of the album is totally inspired in that regard.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

you're OTM too:
the first song big-ups drug deals
but he's still "conscious"?

he's got hooks for days
and his beats are competent
but they won't draw blood

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

But even the drug deal stuff is suitably conflicted in that late-period De La Soul kind of way where it can be explained away or overlooked.

I think some of the hooks on the album are brilliant ("Never Let Me Down", "Family Business", "Slow Jamz", a few others). I find it odd though that his beats aren't as demolishing as he's proven they can be - you certainly can't fault "Stand Up" or "B R Right" or "Girls Girls Girls (Remix)" or "Izzo (H.O.V.A.)" in the beats department.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

he's over that now,
now his words take precedence,
gold pearls of wisdom

(all I care about
is how fine Stacey Dash is
in the video)

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

nipples that could cut
diamonds, make me feel all
funny, like when we

used to climb the rope
in gym class, or maybe when
i just see nipples.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

This isn't really a pazz&jop question, but is the Alanis album a big deal? Is she still huge? She used to be huge. That other female singer stuff up above reminded me of her. Her album just came out. Is it a blockbuster? (don't ask me why i am wondering. i don't know why.)

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

it's about ryan reynolds!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost to strongo:

and she looks so SAD
to leave him behind, but he
got the mug of stone

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:30 (twenty-two years ago)

there is a "psychedelic" track.

xpost to mc:

said it before, say it
again: p. diddy with real
bad water weight gain

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

ryan reynolds, guys!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

well meant "in-sic-curr"
pathos vs. pathetic
"c'mon c'mon" voice

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

ILM has scared me off of that Kanye West album so bad it's not even funny.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

haha it's easily the most overrated rap album since well maybe ever?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

since Outkast?

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I got a Prince Po album in the mail the other day. I don't know Po from a ho in the ground. It sounded like an album that other people would tell me was great and then I would hear it and go ugh, err, um, okay.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

is it bad? i had really high hopes. that second organized konfusion album is one of my favorites ever.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

who knows, maybe i would love the kanye west.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

the Po has too much jazziness on it for me. and the songs aren't all that great.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

when i first put it on i thought it was the greatest thing ever until i realized that the baby had turned the treble and bass all the way up on the stereo.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

that organized album sorta predicts the whole el-p thing eight years in advance, except, you know, they can actually rap.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:48 (twenty-two years ago)

(hi nate!)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:48 (twenty-two years ago)

people love them. i always thought the first divine styler did that whole thing way before anybody too. and better. and on more drugs.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:49 (twenty-two years ago)

and funkier.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:50 (twenty-two years ago)

oh you and ned and divine styler

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

in a tree

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

you know how i find great rap records? completely at random. it's either something i buy on a whim or i'm flipping channels and i see a great video or i turn on the radio and catch a great song. It's never from reading anything. my fave right now is the Pitbull mix cd. it's great. except for the john lennon song. which is good for a laugh once.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I've been a Divine fan since the first record came out. I make no apologies. I loved his last record just as much.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

first record i ever wrote about for the Voice. first record i ever wrote about, PERIOD!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

The Lil Scrappy & Trillville split cd is really good too.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Scott I bought Spiral
Walls based on THAT DAMNED REVIEW!
Oh my freakin' GAWD!

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

See, if I can just touch one young boy's heart....

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 01:11 (twenty-two years ago)

that wasn't my heart!
I lived down in park slope then
those were gentler times

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 01:12 (twenty-two years ago)

so the discussion goes this far without a mention of Wilco? i mean, thats probably like a Top Ten lock already for quite a few critics.

― jonviachicago, Tuesday, 25 May 2004 01:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Except that the album sort of...sucks.

― Josh Timmermann (Josh Timmermann), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

That didn't stop Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i haven't heard enough of the new album to say for sure, but there's enough people out there who would vote a Tweedy bowel movement into the top ten.

― jonviachicago, Tuesday, 25 May 2004 02:05 (twenty-two years ago)

oh you and ned and divine styler

in a tree

What, where? Scott's right BTW, of course.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never heard the first Wordpower record, but nothing Divine Styler has done since is even in the same league as Stress: The Extinction Agenda (or even the Pharaohe Monche solo record!)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

my favorite album of the year is the alicia keys record, easily.

my father's favorite album in ages is that los lonely boys record. he played it for me four or five times while i was home. it was easy to see that it'll be a HUGE hit, but i didn't like it in the least (the second track was okay tho).

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Ok . . . . so I'm starting to find examples of myself being really offensive all over the internet which I have no memory of writing. I'm not drinking to excess at the moment, and I certainly won't have had a drop when I was abusive up there. Oh fucking dear.

Sorry everyone, I think I might actually be falling apart.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Ok. So 11.30 is prime booze territory. At the time I posted that I had a lot of friends round, my brother, my dad. Why the fuck would I leave their company to go on the net and post loads of abuse? It doesn't make sense.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Lynskey, it's someone pretending to be you -- different IP address. I'll look into it further.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm glad i'm not the only one who likes the alicia keys album!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

y in "it's still 2003" shocker, alicia AND l.l.b.-wise

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

it came out in 2003?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you think Phoenix album will place in the P&J this year? I've really fallen in love with that record lately - if I was to fill out a ballot today, it would probably be my #2 or #3 choice after The Fiery Furnaces and Ghostface.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, maybe #3 or #4, I'm already forgetting that the Scissor Sisters record is technically a 2004 album.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't imagine it would. It's in my top 5 right now, too, but I've seen hardly any press on it.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

the Alicia Keys record came out the first week of December, and placed #61 in the '03 P&J.

― Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

isnt LCD soundsystem putting out an album this year? i'd imagine they're a shoe-in for the top "look, hipsters like to dance too!" spot on the polls. especially since they were kind of underrepresented for "yeah" due to bad timing.

― Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned - cheers. I've been getting awfully worried.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

It seems to have only been two posts. Pretty weird, though, and it's not traceable to any other poster here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

the alicia didn't "impact" until 2k4, so i'm voting for it! i don't think i've listened to another album nearly as much. (singles, on the other hand...)

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

oh I understand,
alicia blowing up
so much bigger now!

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

singleswise yeah by usher has to be way up there...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

there's not been anything anywhere near as ubiquitous this year, so much to the point that i'm actually pretty sick of it, just like hey ya.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...

More prognosticating, please. (I'm kinda surprised this wasn't revived sooner.)

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

SMiLE must be in the running now.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

the metacritic list has changed:

1 Brian Wilson
SMiLE 96

2 Loretta Lynn
Van Lear Rose 95

3 Talking Heads
The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads [2004 Version] 92

4 Madvillain
Madvillainy 91

5 Dizzee Rascal
Boy In Da Corner 90

6 John Cale
HoboSapiens 89

7 The Streets
A Grand Don't Come For Free 89

8 Elliott Smith
From A Basement On The Hill 88

9 Junior Boys
Last Exit 88

10 Dungen
Ta Det Lugnt 87

if smile counts as a new album its easily the odds-on favorite. like 1:1 style.

― david day (winslow), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

oh crap, it will be Smile, won't it?

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see why it wouldn't count as a new album. It's new recordings of a lot of material that was never officially released.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

That said, it's not even in my top 20.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm still placing money on Kanye, although I don't feel at all confident about it. Van Lear Rose and SMiLE both in Top 10. I have no idea how Dizzee's '03/'04 split is going to shake out.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

sMiLE or however I'm supposed to type it will fall somewhere outside my top 10,000.

― Andy K (Andy K), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm more lenient - somewhere just outside my top 100.

― Jedmond (Jedmond), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

metacritic current top 10
http://www.metacritic.com/music/

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

great minds think alike obviously, i must learn to check threads first

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

current fast n bulbous rankings:

http://www.fastnbulbous.com/rock.htm

2004
9+

TV On The Radio * Desperate Youth, Blood Thirsty Babes (Touch & Go)
Björk * Medulla (Elektra)
Razorlight * Up All Night (Vertigo UK)
Junior Boys * Last Exit (Kin UK)
The Walkmen * Bows And Arrows (Record Collection)
Arto Lindsay * Salt (Righteous Babe)
Tom Waits * Real Gone (Anti/Epitaph)
The Black Keys * Rubber Factory (Fat Possum)
The Earlies * These Were The Earlies (WEA UK)
Sketch Show * Loophole (Third Ear)
The Mark Lanegan Band * Bubblegum (Beggars)
Mission Of Burma * ONoffOn (Matador)
The Flaming Stars * Named And Shamed (Vinyl Japan UK/Alternative Tentacles) Nov 16
Franz Ferdinand (Domino)
Blue States * The Soundings (Memphis Industries UK)
Fennesz * Venice (Touch)
Syd Matters * A Whisper And A Sigh (3rd Side/V2)
Isis * Panopticon (Ipecac)
Bark Psychosis * ///Codename: Dustsucker (Fire)
Ed Harcourt * Strangers (Heavenly UK)
PJ Harvey * Uh Hu Her (Island)
Nick Cave * Abattoir Blues/The Lyre Of Orpheus (Anti/Epitaph) Oct 26
The Czars * Goodbye (Bellaire) Nov 2
Rachid Taha * Tekitoi (Wrasse) Nov 30
Elliott Smith * From A Basement On The Hill (Epitaph)
Wilco * A Ghost Is Born (Nonesuch)
Joseph Arthur * Our Shadows Will Remain (Vector)
Camper Van Beethoven * New Roman Times (Vanguard)
Lali Puna * Faking The Books (Morr)
Interpol * Antics (Matador)
Spektrum * Enter ... The Spektrum (Playhouse UK)
The Soft Pink Truth * Do You Want New Wave Or Do You Want the Soft Pink Truth? (Tigerbeat6)
Nouvelle Vague (Peacefrog)
Beastie Boys * To The 5 Boroughs (Capitol)
Beta Band * Heroes To Zeros (Astralwerks)
Sonic Youth * Sonic Nurse (Geffen)
Social Distortion * Sex, Love and Rock 'n' Roll (Time Bomb)
John Vanderslice * Cellar Door (Barsuk)
The Blue Nile * High (Sanctuary)
!!! * Louden Up Now (Touch and Go/Warp)
To Rococo Rot * Hotel Morgen (Domino)
The Blues Explosion * damage! (Sanctuary)
Tortoise * It's All Around You (Thrill Jockey)
Califone * Heron King Blues (Thrill Jockey)
The Eternals * Rawar Style (Aesthetics)
The Eternals * Out Of Proportion EP (Antifaz)
Telefon Tel Aviv * Map of What Is Effortless (Hefty)
Beans * Shock City Maverick (Warp)
Animal Collective * Sung Tongs (Fatcat)
Stereolab * Margarine Eclipse (Elektra)
Ben Christophers * The Spaces In Between (Cooking Vinyl UK)
Savath & Savalas * Apropa't (Warp)

The Arcade Fire * Funeral (Merge)
American Music Club * Love Songs for Patriots (Cooking Vinyl)
Psapp * Tiger, My Friend (Leaf)
Crispy Ambulance * Powder Blind Dream (Darla)
The Roots * The Tipping Point (Geffen)
Adem * Homesongs (Domino)
Marianne Faithfull * Before the Poison (Naive UK)
Efterklang * Tripper (Leaf)
Twilight Singers * She Loves You (One Little Indian)
Black Dice * Creature Comforts (DFA/Fat Cat)
Bebel Gilberto (Six Degrees)
Peter Murphy * Unshattered (Viastar)
Youssou N'Dour * Egypt (Nonesuch)
Giant Sand * Is All Over The Map (Thrill Jockey)
The Libertines (Rough Trade/Sanctuary)
The Delgados * Universal Audio (Mantra UK)
The Soundtrack Of Our Lives * Origin Vol. 1 (WEA UK)
Tangiers * Never Bring You Pleasure (Sonic Unyon)
Hot Snakes * Audit In Progress (Swami)
Mouse On Mars * Radical Connector (Thrill Jockey)
Cee-Lo * Cee-Lo Green Is The Soul Machine (Arista)
We Ragazzi * Wolves With Pretty Lips (Suicide Squeeze)
Frog Eyes * The Folded Palm (Absolutely Kosher)
Sondre Lerche * Two Way Monologue (Astralwerks)
Lhasa * The Living Road (Les Disques Audiogramme)
The Faint * Wet From Birth (Saddle Creek)
Omar A. Rodriguez-Lopez * A Manual Dexterity V.1 (GSL)
Flogging Molly * Within A Mile Of Home (SideOneDummy)
The Futureheads (Fantastic UK)
Heiruspecs * A Tiger Dancing (Razor & Tie)
The Bees * Free The Bees (Virgin UK)
Ikara Colt * Modern Apprentice (Fantastic Plastic UK)
Eleni Mandell * Afternoon (Zedtone)
Kevin Tihista's Red Terror * Wake Up Captain (Parasol)
Amon Tobin * Recorded Live (Ninja Tune)
Rachel Goswell * Waves Are Universal (4AD)
The Radio Dept. * Lesser Matters (XL/Labrador)
Drive-By Truckers * The Dirty South (New West)
Clinic * Winchester Cathedral (Domino/Universal)
Comets On Fire * Blue Cathedral (Sub Pop)
The (International) Noise Conspiracy * Armed Love (Burning Heart)
Madvillain * Madvillainy (Stones Throw)
The Fiery Furnaces * Blueberry Boat (Rough Trade)
90 Day Men * Panda Park (Southern)
Les Savy Fav * Inches (French Kiss)
Regina Spektor * Soviet Kitsch (Sire)
Loretta Lynn * Van Lear Rose (Interscope)
Solex * The Laughing Stock Of Indie Rock (Arena Rock)
Dogs Die In Hot Cars * Please Describe Yourself (V2)
The Mattoid * Hello (Cleft)
Joanna Newsom * The Milk-Eyed Mender (Drag City)
A.C. Newman * The Slow Wonder (Matador)
Brian Wilson * SMiLE (Nonesuch)
The Ordinary Boys * Over The Counter Cultuer (B-Unique UK)
Wagon Christ * Sorry I Made You Lush (Ninja Tune)
Rogers Sisters * Three Fingers (Troubleman Unlimited)
Ulrich Schnauss * A Strangely Isolated Place (Domino)
Dead Texas * Dead Texan (Kranky)
Stina Nordenstam * The World Is Saved (V2)
Mono * Walking Cloud and Deep Red Sky, Flag Fluttered and the Sun Shined (Temporary Residence)
Brave Captain * All Watched Over By Machines Of Lovign Grace (Wichita UK)
Laura Veirs * Carbon Glacier (Bella Union UK)
Shalabi Effect * Pink Abyss (Alien 8)
Amen * Death Before Musick (Eat URmusic/Columbia)
Helmet * Size Matters (Interscope)
Thalia Zedek - Trust Not Those In Whom Without Some Touch of Madness (Thrill Jockey)
CocoRosie * La Maison De Mon Reve (Touch and Go)
Nicolai Dunger * Here's My Song You Can Have It (Universal)
Black OX Orkestar * Ver Tanzt? (Constellation)
Secret Machines * Now Here Is Nowhere (Reprise)
Jim White * Drill A Hole In That Substrate And Tell Me What You See (Luaka Bop)
The Cribs (Wichita UK)
Shannon Wright * Over the Sun (Quarterstick)
Ozomatli * Street Signs (Real World)
The Hidden Cameras * Mississauga Goddam (Rough Trade)
The French Kicks * The Trial Of The Century (Star Time)
McLusky * Difference Between Me And You Is That I'm Not On Fire (Beggars/Too Pure)
Old Time Relijun * Lost Light (K)
Mirah * C'mon Miracle (K)
Múm * Summer Make Good (Fat Cat)
N*E*R*D * Fly Or Die (Virgin)
The Zutons * Who Killed The Zutons? (Deltasonic UK)
The Ponys * Laced With Romance (In The Red)
Richmond Fontaine * Post To Wire (El Cortez)
Ken Stringfellow * Soft Commands (Yep Roc)
Gomez * Split The Difference (Virgin)
Kerrier District (Rephlex)
Elizabeth Anka Vagacic * Stand With the Stillness of the Day (Constellation)
Valley of the Giants (Arts & Crafts)
Dani Siciliano * Likes... (K7)
cLOUDDEAD * Ten (Mush)
Helio Sequence * Love And Distance (Sub Pop)
Sufjan Stevens * Seven Swans (Sounds Familyre)
The Icarus Line * Penance Soiree (V2)
Grant Lee Phillips * Virgina Creeper (Cooking Vinyl)

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh, DJ Martian, I was surprised that first Metacritic post wasn't you.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Thursday, 25 November 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I predict that Dungen (who I never even heard of til now) will not finish. Neither will that Talking Heads reissue. Metacritic is so silly. (And yeah, Kanye W and Brian W are neck and neck. Obviously.)

― One of the pazz and jop poobahs, Thursday, 25 November 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Dungen are one of Pitchfork's raves of 2004
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/d/dungen/ta-det-lugnt.shtml

Psychedelic rock from Sweden

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 25 November 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

If Pitchfork raved about them, they're automatically a P&J lock. Because Pitchfork has all that influence. And stuff.

― Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 25 November 2004 05:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Said Pitchfork review also contains this caveat: This record currently has limited distribution, and is presently available only via Swedish import. Sorry, pal.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Thursday, 25 November 2004 05:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I predict that Dungen (who I never even heard of til now) will not finish.

They'll be on my ballot. Brian Wilson will not.

(My #1 album? RJD2. Please do not ask me to explain. It will lead to hurt feelings and a straw man pogrom.)

― MC Transmaniacon (natepatrin), Thursday, 25 November 2004 05:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I dont think kanye will win; came out too early in the year. Smile and v. rose definitely look like locks for the top three.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 25 November 2004 07:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I like VLR somewhat but I'd feel like a fucking fraud voting for it since I know almost nothing about country. I did find a used LP of Entertainer of the Year a couple weeks ago, and I should probably start listening to it.

― MC Transmaniacon (natepatrin), Thursday, 25 November 2004 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Erick Sermon!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 25 November 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the new Interpol, so I might vote for that. But honestly, most of 2004 is kind of a blur. I'll have to go back and look at what I wrote about to even start making up a list.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 25 November 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

my theory: rock and indie people will vote for kanye (along with loretta and brian, though possibly less than them.) very very few hip-hop people will vote for loretta or brian. hence: if i had to put down $, i'd put it on kanye. but it'll be close. (loretta very well may not finish in the top 5, or maybe even top 10 -- though she is my favorite of these three albums by the way. brian by far my *least* favorite of the three. none of these make my own top ten though.)

― one of the pazz and jop poobahs, Thursday, 25 November 2004 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I like VLR somewhat but I'd feel like a fucking fraud voting for it since I know almost nothing about country.

b..b..but you like it, right? Who cares how much you know about country? Oh right, you're afraid of hillbilly tokenism!

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 25 November 2004 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I might vote for Brian Eno's Discreet Music (reissued this year, and I'd never heard it before).

Other contenders, after some thought: Electric Wizard, Mastodon, Lamb of God, Pig Destroyer, Matthew Shipp, Isis, Dizzee Rascal (Showtime), UA, Alice Coltrane (the reissue of Universal Consciousness, not the new one), Cecil Taylor (All The Notes).

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 25 November 2004 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

UA will be on my list somewhere, although I'm not sure she'll be high enough for th P&J ballot.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 25 November 2004 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Note usage of term "somewhat". And yeah, I hate poseurs. Also, I fear that if I endorse any Jack White-affiliated projects the ILM Hivemind will beat me all senseless and concussed with a printout of the Amy Phillips thread.

― Nate (not at home), Friday, 26 November 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Also: "hillbilly"?

― Nate (not particularly cheerful, either), Friday, 26 November 2004 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

What's "P&J"?

― Crapstone (Crapstone), Friday, 26 November 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Peanut butter and jelly.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 26 November 2004 02:12 (twenty-one years ago)

nate stop worrying about being well-informed or credible enough!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 26 November 2004 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

P&J is "Pazz & Jop" (do they catually spell it with two zs? I can't remember) an annual poll of music critics that the New York city weekly newspaper the Village Voice does, featuring lists and comments.

― LaRue (rockist_scientist), Friday, 26 November 2004 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously! If you think something's good enough, vote it in. I've got no shame about liking Outkast and liking very little other mainstream hip hop. In fact, I'd make a t-shirt that says "Tokenism Walking" and wear it proudly.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 26 November 2004 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

(That was for Crapstone, obviously.)

― LaRue (rockist_scientist), Friday, 26 November 2004 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Crapstone, see also these search results:

http://ilx.p3r.net/searchresults.php?board=2&mode=threads&q=&titlepart=paz&name=&email=&username=&dateafter=&datebefore=&catid=all

― LaRue (rockist_scientist), Friday, 26 November 2004 03:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Way to be proud of your close-mindedness, johnny!

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 26 November 2004 04:11 (twenty-one years ago)

here we go!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 26 November 2004 04:13 (twenty-one years ago)

nate stop worrying about being well-informed or credible enough!

OK, OK, sorry. I haven't been the same since some publicity dude from Matador sent me an e-mail about how I got nearly every single lyric quote from my Antics review wrong

― MC Transmaniacon (natepatrin), Friday, 26 November 2004 05:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Kanye got #1 album in Blender mag's Top 50. It the only time their Top 50 intersected with my Top 10 (though I agree w/ their inclusion of PJ Harvey).

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 29 November 2004 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Amazing that no one has mentioned U2 in this thread. Mainstream critics have been jizzing all over it. I could imagine Kanye West or Loretta Lynn outpointing it in P&J, but if I had to bet I would bet that U2 and SMiLE finish 1-2 (in some order).

― Vornado (Vornado), Monday, 29 November 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

god that's horrifying

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 29 November 2004 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

The Futureheads have an 85 average on Metacritic, which excites me a bit, obviously. The Delgados are averaging 80, which is nice, but one more nicely placed review of 84 or thereabouts pushes them over the threshold required to have their name in bold with a little star beside it on the sidebar.

Neither of them will win, but I'd like them to wind up doing quite well in the results as some kind of pathetic self-legitimising thingy.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 29 November 2004 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Uh....yeah, Michaelangelo, it would be. And now I'm suddenly scared...do mainstream critics really like that useless U2 thing *that* much? Wow. I am so out of touch. (But nobody likes Eminem much, right? Or PJ Harvey? It just occured to me that Ray Charles is probably gonna finish, but probably not top 10 and maybe not Top 20.) (Ray Charles *was* this year, right? I am sleepy.)

This, on the other hand.....

>The Futureheads have an 85 average on Metacritic. The Delgados are averaging 80,<

means absolutely nothing.

― chuck, Monday, 29 November 2004 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, obviously.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 29 November 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

For a couple weeks maybe a couple months ago, by the way, I was positive that Elliot Smith would win, but I have fortunately since changed my mind. He has a good shot at top 5 or so, though, I bet.

― chuck, Monday, 29 November 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm setting myself up to be laughed at, of course, but are Franz Ferdinand that far out of the running? Even with my 27 points?

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Monday, 29 November 2004 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

They've got a better shot than Big $ Rich with my 30 points do, Joseph. I'd say Franz Ferdinand somewhere in the bottom half of the top 10, Big $ Rich around #37 or so. But maybe I'm wrong. And maybe I shouldn't even be making predictions, in case it influences anybody's ballot (which I really would prefer not to.)

― chuck, Monday, 29 November 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

On the other hand, I have to admit that Franz Ferdinand, if they won, would make for a much funner and more interesting winner than Wilson, Smith, or U2, if possibly not than Lynn or West. (Has new wave haircut pop ever won the poll? I don't think so. It has lots of enemies -- primarily among people who hate haircuts.) (Which is not by any means an endorsement on my part of FF, who last time I checked had maybe one song I liked a lot. I have nothing against their genre; I just think there are bands out there who do it way better these days.)

― chuck, Monday, 29 November 2004 19:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Dear Rock Critics of America,

I DON'T KNOW YOU ANYMORE.

With Deep Nausea,
Michael Daddino

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 29 November 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I predict Bersuit
will get only my first-place
points...and nothing more

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Monday, 29 November 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

hey matt i keep looking in latin-oriented record stores around here for copies of bersuit AND grupo climax and have not been able to find them, but i will keep looking, i promise! also what was the name of that norteno comedy rapper guy you recommended? i wanna look for him, too...

― chuck, Monday, 29 November 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

chingo bling baby!
(you might have to look for just
"climax" in the store.

and try, say, borders
or b&n for bersuit,
or just amazon)

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Monday, 29 November 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

What, no "That's What I Call Music, Vol. 17"? I may have to vote for it since regionally, it's hot.

― George Smith, Monday, 29 November 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

apparently, i've been dropped from the voting list. what sin did i commmit?

oh, one less vote for "toxic"

;-)

― seanp (seanp), Monday, 29 November 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Have the ballots gone out and I missed it? :-(

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 29 November 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i seem to recall being in touch with the P & J intern about ballots by this time last year, so i don't know.

― seanp (seanp), Monday, 29 November 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Have the ballots gone out and I missed it? :-(

I don't think so.

― George Smith, Monday, 29 November 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

ballots go out in a few weeks. i hope.

― one of the poobahs, Monday, 29 November 2004 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Will Kanye West win the men's speed skating contest in the 2006 Winter Olympics?

― LaRue (rockist_scientist), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

No but he'll bitch about how he should have one for his rendition of "Jesus Skates" alone.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 02:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahahahahaha!!

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 03:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Has new wave haircut pop ever won the poll? I don't think so. It has lots of enemies -- primarily among people who hate haircuts.

Your search for the terms "rock critics" bald returned 373 hits.

(Sorry Franz.)

― Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I hope Pinback places.

― 57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

It won't.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you have to be a prof music critic to be vote for Pazz & Jop?

― stephen morris (stephen morris), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

prof music critic

Jim DeRo, Ph.D

― Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Ph.D

No dissing the scientist's union card.

― George Smith, Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you just have to be a published critic? Should I e-mail la Chuck?

― stephen morris (stephen morris), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

It doesn't hurt to try!

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

pro crit in the us is the guideline sorta i think

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

What if you're just a message board agitator?

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Notable bloggers have also been allowed in.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Its like studio 54 for nerds!

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:44 (twenty-one years ago)

All I'm saying is, Josh Kortbein voted in 2002 on the strength of a blog that's more about analytic philosophy, sometimes, than it is about music.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:46 (twenty-one years ago)

True. It also doesn't hurt, however, that he's also an absolutely brilliant writer straight up. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Also it used to be more about music and less about philosophy.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 03:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Also I made a joke about laclau to an analytic philosopher and I think they got really mad because they never wrote me back. :-(

Josh is better than that though!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 03:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I know, I love Josh, I'm just teasing.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 03:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm also trying to hide my enthusiasm that I'm voting this year.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 03:57 (twenty-one years ago)

ha, I assumed it was a little more exclusive than that. Maybe someday the bastards at the paper I write for will decide to pay me.

― stephen morris (stephen morris), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 03:59 (twenty-one years ago)

You should still e-mail Chuck.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 04:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm also trying to hide my enthusiasm that I'm voting this year.

I shall plan my vote to completely counteract yours, as I am mean (this is a lie).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 05:15 (twenty-one years ago)

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