Defend The Indefensible: Rick Wakeman

He remains a very difficult gentleman to defend, mind.

Actually, Kevin, it's one of the most enjoyable things I've read on ILM for a while.

Rick Wakeman, hey? He's an odd fellow. The thing is, I totally concur with your 'Hendrix of synth' summary, in a negative way - he's all technical ability over actually making something good (I'm going to get so kicked in the face for hating on Hendrix again, but nevermind). Despite this, I am actually incredibly glad that he exists.

For instance, when my band did a cover of 'Forever Autumn' from the War Of The Worlds soundtrack, everyone I knew had reminiscences of listening to the record as a child. I was a late convert, as a kid my mum had the the Journey To The Centre Of The Earth LP instead, so I will always have fond memories of that.

Also, he is FUNNY. As a keyboard player with an ever-expanding collection of synths and a strange increasing desire to wear a cape, how can I not find Wakeman amusingly relevant? No, I will never ever be tempted to make pompous concept albums about jesters or courtly romance or whatever, but I'm glad that someone does it (even if I won't be remotely tempted to listen to them, either).

And finally, he is the only person I've ever guessed correctly on Through The Keyhole.

None of these are very good defences, I'm afraid, but really, it is Rick Wakeman you're talking about.

On the downside, I really don't like his solo albums (or many prog keyboard player solo albums. I like Tim Blake, and if Simon House had recorded a solo alb around 1974, I'd probably have liked that, but that's all I can think of) plus there's GasTank, which was this wretched rock prog from the early days of ch4. Wakeman and some other keyboard player were the presenters. It was terrible stuff. All long blues jams, yurgh.

I think the good things outweigh the bad things by a huge margin though - "Space Oddity", "And You and I", "Siberian Khatru" especially.

I also forgot his role in lisztomania! Classic!! (only if you're steaming drunk, though)

It is. But I can't defend him outside of contexts where he is completely tied down to someone else's vision rather than indulging his own. (Hunky Dory as an obvious choice.)

An illustrative point of recent vintage -- I found, for very cheap, the Strawbs double disc comp last year and figured I'd give it a go, as they represent a British rock strand of the era I know comparatively little about. Most of it I thought was enjoyable one way or another but there was a stretch of songs on the first disc where I was BORED TO TEARS by the lengthy keyboard hash. So I check the credits and what do I find to my lack of surprise...

I admit that there are few words in the English language that can freak me out so much as this. (But quite why I like Jon Lord a lot, say, is a mystery.)

Prosecutor:

1) Most of his solo albums are pretty terrible, and I would include Journey to the Center of the Earth in the list. King Arthur has some decent moments and beautiful melodies, but a lot of it is either mediocre or bad--the vocals, the lyrics, the choirs shouting "Fight! Fight!" in irregular time. And albums like these don't even begin to scrape the surface of his really bad solo albums, the ones nobody knows about like: A Suite of Gods, Cost of Living, "Crimes of Passion"

2) For all claims of being a virtuoso, he is really a pretty limited virtuoso (i.e., relative to, say Keith Emerson, Patrick Moraz, a number of other keysman from that era).

3) He doesn't care for Tales from Topographic Oceans and he likes golf. :)

Defense:

1) Excepting Keith Emerson, there aren't many other people you could reasonably claim was a more influential (taking into account popular recognition and commercial success as well) person in defining the 'rock keyboardist' thang during the early 70s. Whenever you see someone today with a cadre of stacked keyboards (which, let's face it, is pretty much everyone), Wakeman was the guy at the forefront of doing that.

2) The aforementioned piano middle in "South Side of the Sky" (shivers).

3) I'd say Six Wives and Criminal Record at least are decent efforts.

4) Prog rock meets the Ice Follies wasn't really his fault (in that he had to accomodate the venue, which had an ice show going on).

5) The view of him as an aloof, cape-wearing prick is shredding paper tigers, at least going on for the past two decades plus. By all accounts, with perhaps the exception of the drummer, Wakeman is easily the most approachable and down-to-earth member of Yes.

I'll take that road over the Time and a Word road any day, thanks. At least it's not, well, boring as piss.

And I DID upgrade my browser -- AMG just doesn't work on Safari that well (no cookies, apparently). It's only when I look at it on my PC that I remember how much the new version blows.

that he's the most down-to-earth yes-man is nice, but kinda beside the point -- isn't the POINT of yes that they're NOT down-to-earth? if i had to spend time with a yes-er, i'd actually rather spend time talking w/ jon anderson (even if 99.999% of what would come outta his mouth would be new agey malarkey) or drinking w/ chris squire.

this 1984 concept-album sounds pretty interesting, at least as kevin describes it. chaka khan -- SCREAMING orwell vocals?!? how could you NOT wanna hear that?!?

If you honestly think that Hendrix was all about technique and not songwriting, then you simply can't have properly listened to him. In three years, Jimi recorded far more worthwhile music than Wakeman managed in thirty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But that Rick Wakeman story is true - I had an old biography of his which tells the tale.
It was the "Tales from topographic oceans" tour and during one interminable song, Rick mouthed to his keyboard roadie - who sat under the stage keeping his Moogs in tune - that he fancied a curry later. Said roadie mishears and disappears for fifteen minutes, returning with a big bag of curry, rice, popadums, bhahis etc, which Rick proceeds to eat during a drum solo. Chris Squier was annoyed about it at the time, but Jon Anderson enjoyed it so much he came over and shared a popadum and bhaji.

(It didn't help that Rick was the only non-veggie in the band at the time so he couldn't really share the chicken vindaloo with the others).

Sorry, X-post again.

-- Rob M (durutti24...), October 23rd, 2003.

Macrobiotic, dude. Macrobiotic.

I can't fucking believe the shit that the keyboardist on the glorious Yes Album is taking. Joe v OTM - what he played was perfect for those songs, whereas Wakeman could sometimes be really intrusive and overbearing. The organs and the jam on "Good People"! The organ riff on "Starship Trooper"! Also Moraz deserves major props.

Despite Wakeman's flaws, mind you, no one who played "South Side of the Sky" and "Siberian Khatru" is anything close to indefensible. He did get some classic sounds out of the keyboard - I love his bits on "And You and I" and nick is right about the synth float on "Heart of the Sunrise". And I'm surprised Ned doesn't even like "Long Distance Runaround".

(which nonetheless has an amazing first couple of minutes....as if Propaganda/ZTT had appeared 10 yrs earlier as mid-70's south american prog-rockers !)

That's three chords — and Kaye didn't even write them.

this along with Wives, and King Arthur are 3 wonderfully OTT albums for when your 14>16 and haven't discovered Foetus/ON-U Sound yet

.. then to be hidden deep in the archive forever after.

he was also one of the first Rock stars to ever respond to a sad fanboy letter ..

i'm revealing wayyyy too much here .. but hey ..

and live in 1984 Braford St Georges hall - he was quality (again, i was still within the predefined 14-16 years of age)

but damn - when the dude is bad he is seriously bad .. 'rock-n-roll prophet' album .. WTF ..

and while Tony Kaye was sort of neutral, I like that Hammond sound he got on "Yes Album," and "Yours is No Disgrace" does utilize the I-IV-VII progression (I think it's B-flat pedal tone with B-flat/E-flat-B-flat 7 sus 4 there) well.

It's sorta goofy.

A MONKEY, eh. Apparently you've never heard Kaye on 9012Live: The Solos.

Give it up for the white-haired wonder!

http://www.dhc.net/~krobert/yes/a_rick_2.jpg

I admit I haven't heard Rick's solo LPs, but only because I don't want to.

I have nothing against Tony Kaye. I do, however, find the notion of praising his abilities to be patently ludicrous on its face. The guy stayed out of the way — that's it, folks.

I should note, however, that Robert Fripp once gave Bill Bruford a writing credit for choosing not to interrupt an improvisation by playing. Perhaps he learned such restraint from his time spent in Yes with The Indomitable Tony Kaye!

Listen to 90125. The man added practically nada to the situation.

Back to the album cover,I particularly like the Snoopy doll hanging from the coat rack.

I fear to ask, but what does the 'plus' mean?

it's like the "32" on every bottle of rolling rock beer!

What kind of drunk are you? It's 33

(But quite why I like Jon Lord a lot, say, is a mystery.)-- Ned Raggett (Ned), teisipäev, 16. November 2004 11:50 (3 years ago)

Oi, man. Had we met in, say, '75 or samthung, I woulda been ready & willing to talk away on JonLord-iana for days on end. :)

er, lol?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IHVdG3rKqE

http://home.maine.rr.com/abajoran/img/rw11.jpg

Reminds me of somebody but I can't put my finger on it.

Rick Wakeman, per chance?

Or Gandalf the Grey with a reddish Rick Wakeman mane photoshopped unto 'im?

('m making them silly jokeses just to alleviate the strain of awaitin' my cd copy of six wiveses, which i orderered on teh cheap, to arrive...)

there some super funky shit on journey to the centre of the earth and no earthly connection.

one of my first threads *tear*
Taking Sides! Rick Wakemen vs. Keith Emerson!

All I'll say is he plays an INSANE keyboard. In fact two at the same time. I'm just echoing the sentiments of various youtube viewers but Rick can play, he's adventurous musically but I feel that you really shouldn't ignore the fact that he destroyed Yes because he did it so spectacularly.

(pace the thread header, i WOULD kinda want to hear mr. wakeman's take on dizzee rascal).

http://home.maine.rr.com/abajoran/img/rw11.jpg

Beck?

Rick creates a riotous pastiche of his extraordinary life and escapades

Eh?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/05/Thecaddy.jpg/200px-Thecaddy.jpg

What Yes albums does he play on? When were they destroyed?

there some super funky shit on journey to the centre of the earth and no earthly connection.

totally insane that the brilliant No Earthly Connection is STILL unavailable on cd. that needs fucking sorting out.

but I feel that you really shouldn't ignore the fact that he destroyed Yes because he did it so spectacularly.

Yes, we should. Nonsensical claim. Wakeman's part & parcel with the crew of over-the-top keyboard players working in Britain at the time: Keith Emerson -- ELP sold even more than Yes, Wakeman, and Vincent Crane, who never enjoyed much commercial success.

As for the classic Yes albums with Wakeman on them -- Fragile, Close to the Edge, Yessongs are great. Tales not so much although it's not his fault. Yes with Tony Kaye -- the first two can be passed on although the cover of "Every Little Thing" starts getting into the territory of righteous. The tunes arrive for Yes Album but not because of the keyboard player.

Going for the One's awesome too. Wakeman was back in the fold for that one after taking the (incredible) Relayer off. Whoever says he destroyed Yes has no idea what he's talking about.

Rick Wakeman is a genius and the main reason why Yes were so great in the 70s.

Solo Wakeman is largely indefensible though.

"White Rock" though?

IT'S ABOUT SKIING BEFORE ANYONE STARTS!!!

(it's great)...

"Rick Wakeman is a genius and the main reason why Yes were so great in the 70s."

Wont argue whether he's a genius or not, but the second part of this sentence is wrong.

I don't have the patience to read this whole thread, but I'm sure hoping someone here already pointed out that he is quite classic on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

rick wakeman does a section of presets on my GForce minimoog vst, and they fuckin rock - they're the first presets i try on pretty much *any* song i make involving synths these days - ironically pretty much every last one of them sounds perfect for todays TranceCrunk(tm) production aesthetic...

Six Wives - live !

no chance of me going along, but this is just going to be insanely over the top isn't it ..

I've been on a big prog rock trek for a couple of months, probably started by watching that BBC Prog Rock Brittania on You Tube a couple of times.

Haven't ventured past it yet, but I liked The Six Wives of Henry VIII more than I would have thought and it is one weird ass album to have somehow sold like 15 million copies. People had some patience back in those days, I just don't see any of this kind of weird music being THAT popular.

I liked it enough that I probably am going to try out another Wakeman record.

The Sex Pistols was the reason Rick left A&M, not the other way round...

No it has to be the other way around if it's true at all. I'm sceptical that he would have had that much sway at the label, since sales were waning (though his late 70s stuff is good - often preferable to the earlier, better known albums). Wakeman's final album for A&M came out in 1979, two years after the fact. I know that Wakeman showed up in a documentary talking about this and said it was essentially a bullshit story.

xpost to earlnash - try Criminal Record, which is a digestible and enjoyably brief album from '77. It has a fair chunk of solo Rick mixed with Alan White, Chris Squire and Wakeman doing some fairly disciplined and enjoyable proggy bits.

Basically, McLaren had said that the Sex Pistols' signing had upset some of the proggers on the label (He'd read, upside down, a memo on the A&M-A&R's desk to the extent of "hey, do we all have to wear safety pins through our noses now?" and said more or less in passing that it was him wot got them sacked.

At which point lots of A&M staffers were all "yes, yes, that's exactly what happened", which got Rick extremely pissed off. Doubtless, that was not the only factor, but maybe one of them that made him see out his contract then goodnight vienna.

One further album, "Rhapsodies", then off. (his "Criminal Record" presumably well on the way by then..)

Thanks, that rings true. Wakeman was probably nearing the end at A&M anyway. "Criminal Record" did not sell too well I think - I recall stacks of copies marked down in Boots at the start of the 80s, which is where I got it from. Rhapsodies could be looked at as a stereotypical "last album for the label". It feels/sounds cut-price, has a terrible sleeve design (as did Criminal Record) and is all over the place, apparently hoping to appeal to the general public (there's everything from James Last-style orchestal disco to moogy riffs on famous classical/jazz tunes. This from a guy who has no business even considering what what "commercial" might sound like (listen to "Rock'n'Roll Prophet" to see how lamentable is his take on early-80s synthpop. Notwithstanding all that, to me there is some good stuff on these album due to his general creative quirkiness and blokey whimsicality.

People had some patience back in those days, I just don't see any of this kind of weird music being THAT popular.

hypothesis: prog rock fulfilled a cinematic purpose for fantasy/scifi/stoner nerds in the mid seventies, but that purpose was superseded by blockbuster sci-fi movies and the spread of D&D and then FPS videogames. Punk didn't kill prog rock, the triumph of nerdery in other pop culture areas did.

Not wanting to sound negative but no.

I'm totally digging Rock and Roll Prophet at the moment. It's like Wakeman meets the Buggles. And he sings weird duets!

http://open.spotify.com/album/1cOv3eKLgw8Tuas65QvaS6

totally insane that the brilliant No Earthly Connection is STILL unavailable on cd. that needs fucking sorting out.

i had no idea, but this was sorted out in 2012 with a US pressing, and the mastering is gorgeous, a lot richer than the cd editions of the other classics.

Cool. I need to catch up on Wakeman.

expanded remasters :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Myths-Legends-Arthur-Knights-Round/dp/B00Q5V6QWO/ref=mb_oe_a

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Six-Wives-Henry-VIII/dp/B00Q5V6RYG/ref=pd_bxgy_m_h__img_y

about time.

I wonder why Journey To Centre Of Earth got that reissue with new cover so recently when these were going to come out?

those were new recordings ..
not reissues of the originals.

Oh! Good thing I didn't buy it! I don't remember there being any note of that on the cover.

its not that obvious at all.
i too nearly got the new editions but a nerd wakeman fan warned me.
however, these are indeed legit reissues !

I had the Strawbs 'All That Crazy Gift Of Time' pop up on my walkman a couple of weeks back. Got knocked out by the keyboard solo which sounded nicely distorto and had me thinking this is probably the closest RW came to garage punk like The later Seeds or something. Hadn't remembered the Antiques & Curios lp really going there but good lp.
I need to listen to the lp through again. Just had that track come up at random.

Interview in Rolling Stone is pretty interesting.

That site is making it very difficult to read with all the adverts shifting the page. I cant even copy and paste the thing.

Is he really known more for comedy in the UK?

he was on TV a lot* in the 90s in programmes like "grumpy old men", which i imagine were watched by many ppl who weren't much fussed abt the strawbs, but it's hard to run the numbers (this period seemed like forever at the time but in hindsight wasn't that drawn-out really)

*a bit

Who cares about solo careers and who needs defense when you played the gorgeous mellotron in "And you and I", on a five-stars record, in one of the 5 best classic prog rock bands ever.

As well with Yes stuff, I love his first album and Lisztomania soundtrack. Got a bunch of his other solo albums waiting.

I wonder what upsetting thing it was that his son saw on tour.

Mark S - just a bit? Check out his "self" credits on imdb.

Wakeman said that Have I Got News For You, Countdown (he's been on 87 episodes) and Grumpy Old Men opened a ton of doors for him, asked to lots of events and things as essentially a tv personality. On imdb I see he hosted a comedy club series. Not listed is a semi-regular (?) slot he had on Watchdog.

lol i was too lazy to check so i walked back "a lot" to "a bit" but i was right the first time i guess

(i am staying away from my first instincts in this thread so as not to upset all his loving fans)

he always seemed like the funniest and most down to earth Yesman there was, I'd def have a pint with him

Also was on Banzai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRRxgapzsU8

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-conservative-party-conference-rick-wakeman-106703899.html

I did enjoy his sideman roles in the early 70s. Strawbs stuff is pretty great, especially the utterly repetitive bit on Where is the Dream Of Our Youth which reminded me of Terry riley or Darryl Hooper or something.

Not heard the solo lps.

actually I see that that's All That Crazy Gift of Time. Saw I mentioned it a couple of years ago.

Is that the same song as the Kevin Ayers song, "All That Crazy Gift Of Time"?

Had no idea he did a track with Chaka Khan...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bjmWuRG8vmE

no internet evidence i can find that the strawbs have a song called "all that crazy gift of time" or indeed "all this crazy gift of time" (the ayers song)?

(lol except on this thread)

the wakeman solo on "where is the dream of our youth" is i guess a bit more garagepunkish than he usually is, plus exhibits the one thing i will generally cede him = good taste in overall sonic settings and sound-colour sense: he switches the organ stops several times, and this is the best element of the solo.

(sund4r schooled me on this aspect of his play on a yes thread years ago and he's right and i shd be more generous to RW.)

but the solo also exhibits exactly the things which annoy me abt wakeman: superfast nerveless showoffy fiddliness endlessly undermined by needless fingering blunders, like he spends all his practice time aiming for high speed and none ironing out precison of detail. i suspect it's why his solos so often end up sounding so bought-by-the-yard. his presence on TV as a fun down-to-earth figure was the same, kind of: much lazier and more quickly boring than someone this gifted should really be sounding… but he's just a a least-effort kind of guy. COULD DO BETTER SEE ME.

also lol strawbs vocals are insufferable

Wonder if i was listening to the Kevin Ayers song since getting home the night I noticed that 4 years ago. I know it turned up on my walkman as i was waitiung at the bus stop waiting to head home as I noticed. I think I replayed it a few times at the time. & I just went from the memory as I made the comment today, though I used the tracklisting from RYM and assumed that was the track. Then looked up the thread and noticed i'd made the comment.
So looks like my initial post today was the more accurate one.

& yeah whoever that singer is with Strawbs really is an acquired taste. Is that Cousins?

The keyboards on "All This Crazy Gift of Time", the Kevin Ayers song, are by Mike Ratlege, in case of confusion.

I'm the confused one, there aren't any keyboards on "All This Crazy Gift of Time", I'm thinking of "Song for Insane Times"!

Most conservative thing I've seen him actually say: "hoodies should be shot on sight". That was on Grumpy Old Men at a time when lots of young people were wearing hooded sweaters, some were using it to hide their face, it was associated with criminality and old people were terrified of them. Probably a cringey phase for many youngsters.

grumpy old men did brexit >:(

(= true with and without caps and quote marks)

perhaps had prog not been so thoroughly devalued, brexit never would have happened

either way rick is to blame

He was asked to appear in Mighty Boosh but turned it down, don't know why.

He was at an awards ceremony for cats recently. Mostly talks about his diet and animal cruelty on twitter.

Love this so much
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdDpuT5stnk

grumpy old men did brexit >:(

(= true with and without caps and quote marks)

plus there's GasTank, which was this wretched rock prog from the early days of ch4. Wakeman and some other keyboard player were the presenters. It was terrible stuff. All long blues jams, yurgh.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:40 PM (fourteen years ago)

This is of course all on Youtube now, it's really bad (warning: 50 mins video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRvDoFGfWoE

I've never heard of this programme! I wonder if it was Not For Viewers In Scotland.

I remember watching it at the time but that was down in t'smoke, think yourself lucky you were spared the sight of an increasingly sloshed Tony Ashton banging out pub piano while Alvin Lee or someone of that ilk farted out a generic blues-rock solo. In fact Rick seemed the odd man out, what with his rococo synth fanfares and wizardly cape.

Living in Ayrshire a the time, I remember it took absolutely ages for C4 to get to us.

Hope Big World Cafe reached you.

'Anne Of Cleeves' on 'Six Wives ... '
is an absolute massive tune.

* Cleves *

to be fair this whole album is absolutely everything i love re PROG.
i rarely enjoy vocals in prog, so this album hits the spot more than most when the need for excess arises.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/06/the-stranger-than-fiction-secret-history-of-prog-rock-icon-rick-wakeman

Journey To The Centre Of The Earth is pretty great, especially the "save me!" and "praise god!" bits. Quite a departure from Six Wives.

ooh yes.
and to think its a live album.
the logistics/planning before the recording.

Some of the songlike parts are quite sweet too. "Forests from far gone time, no living man has seen, A private pre-historic world, for you and I a dream".

I heard this a couple of times more than 30 years ago, almost all I remember is "an embryo at birth". He's fine in Yes, but Wakeman is probably the one "big name" of 70s prog whose solo work does nothing for me.

So far I love his first two albums, I've got the next three at least.

I'd bail before the new age period if I were you

When asked about his personal favorites, he said the first 3 and A Suite Of Gods. So I feel I should at least try the latter.