Will M.I.A. Win Pazz & Jop?

COMMON 2005 MOTHERGRABBERS

metacritic Top 30 2005 Albums Ranked By Metascore
http://www.metacritics.com/music/bests/2005.shtml

1 Arular by M.I.A.

*I haven't heard it. I suspect I'd like it lots.

(haha I think DJ Martian might have just pwned me again...but most of those rankings are from The Big Magazines)

Why did I just call you Mike?

anyway, I hear more buzz on M.I.A. but all that means is I run in non-rap circles, probably

I'd love to know the formula that MetaCritic uses to slap numerical ratings on Village Voice reviews.

Yeah, remember back when Exile In Guyville was burning up the pop charts?

The Decembrists album seems to have gotten good reviews in mainstream pubs and extremely good reviews in indie pubs, so that rating seems accurate. Didn't really see it on any of the ILM lists, though, which is sorta funny.

I'm not trying to argue, mind you. I'm just saying that you totally can win this thing and only have modest sales. None of those Dylan albums were very big either, remember. Or Wilco.

I see white people. And Wilco and Dylan debuted top 20.

(although, neither were forgotten by me!)

I'm influenced here by the fact that Arular didn't quite knock me out the way Piracy did.

but I'm a freak

But also, the riff on "Get Ur Freak On" was as monstrous as any since "Satisfaction."

"Good and slight" is an apt description of "Love & Theft" (a compliment too).

Yeah, but they weren't debut albums either. Dylan and Wilco both have culty fanbases that show up on the first week and then disappear. MIA is a record that will probably grow via word of mouth through the next several months. She's being pushed pretty hard on iTunes and is getting some MTV play, so it's pretty likely she will outsell the both of them. First week sales of established acts are often very misleading.

3/28/05

1. Moby "Hotel"
2. Jack Johnson "In Between Dreams"
3. "Napoleon Dynamite" sdtk
4. Lifehouse "Lifehouse"
5. "Garden State" sdtk
6. 50 Cent "The Massacre"
7. Queens of the Stone Age "Lullabyes To Paralyze"
8. The Killers "Hot Fuss"
9. Cake "Wheels EP"
10. The Decemberists "Picaresque"
11. Green Day "American Idiot"
12. Keane "Hopes and Fears"
13. Louis XIV "The Best Little Secrets Are Kept"
14. Gwen Stefani "Love Angel Music Baby"
15. Kelly Clarkson "Breakaway"
16. Bloc Party "Silent Alarm"
17. Amos Lee "Amos Lee"
18. Maroon 5 "Songs About Jane"
19. John Legend "Get Lifted"
20. U2 "How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb"
21. Jars of Clay "Redemption Songs"
22. Franz Ferdinand "Franz Ferdinand (special edition)"
23. My Chemical Romance "Three Cheers For Sweet Revenge"
24. Ben Folds Five "Forever and Ever Amen"
25. M.I.A. "Arular"
26. Bob Marley and the Wailers "Gold"
27. Billy Idol "Devil's Playground"
28. 3 Doors Down "17 Days"
29. Thievery Corporation "The Cosmic Game"
30. The Postal Service "Give Up"

What's up with Ben Folds Five?

I bet lots of us can (I certainly can) and how the hell are these lists late to any party unless you're one of those "oh that's so last month" corny newness fuxorz?

But "Satisfaction" has that great dub-metal break!

The first thing my wife said when I played her the album was, "This sounds like Nina Sky."

Madonna was VERY L'Trimm at first, absolutely. but she didn't stay there; that's where M.I.A. seems to be, perception-wise, as well.

Which would have been a good description of L'Trimm at the time, too.

L'Trimm was better than Madonna. Maybe. (Actually, I probably like "Everybody" nearly as much as "Cars With The Boom." My fave Madonna was 1982-83, so...)

Don't get me wrong, Matos. I don't mean that stuff that's big in the marketplace is bad or anything like that, I just find people who seem to require that kind of hugeness of sound or success to justify an artist's worth. It's just as awful as people who won't take anything mainstream seriously. The beauty of that MIA record is in part because it kinda blurs that line between mainstream and nonmainstream, so the Madonna comparison is pretty right on in some ways.

So in what way, here or anywhere else, do Kogan and Miccio do this??

God help me, I wasn't trying to start a meme (as simplified--though not by much--by Miccio)

I hope that "Galang" and "Bingo" will be major, too, like "Jumpin' Jumpin'" and "Who Let the Dogs Out" is still major on Radio Disney five years on!

Madonna never won Pazz & Jop (closest was "Vogue" as #3 single).

Michaelangelo, I think different pieces are signifying for me than for you. I'm hearing jumprope, you're hearing ______? But I can imagine M.I.A. signifying as the crest of a sociomusical wave finally making its way to the U.S. I'm just guessing that the sound won't be "serious" enough to make it all the way up the P&J chart (or if it does win, it will be a soft winner, Wilco size rather than OutKast.) That said (and here's where I differ from Matthew), I would be thrilled if there was a sociomusical wave, a Brit-Jamaica-Latino invasion. That would be exciting (though no more of a wave than the one that's been hitting steadily through crunk and reggaeton et al., to the general indifference of Pazz & Jop).

I bet lots of us can (I certainly can) and how the hell are these lists late to any party unless you're one of those "oh that's so last month" corny newness fuxorz?

Late-to-the-party, as in the Voice barely manages to compile and publish their list by the end of February. Every other online/print publication has published lists in late December or January. It was not too long ago that Pazz & Jop got to print sometime in April!

And then we are treated to some ponderous, unreadable Christgau essay and voter comments that read like all the previous years' voter comments, with minor updates to reference current politics or the latest headline-making pop star.

I was actually thinking about this very much on the way into work today (and then got sidetracked by work, so this is not going to seem as allegedly deep as I thought it might) -- but the whole 'OMG grime/baile funk/reggaeton fusion yay!' approach strikes me as missing the mark when indeed, this should be seen more as a pop album straight up and embraced as such.

By this I mean that while I am NOT as completely flabbergasted gagagoo over Arular as, well, nearly everybody it seems (or rather they're -- quite understandably! -- enthusing and talking the most), I do find it enjoyable, and I find it enjoyable *much* more than albums like, say, Stripped or In the Zone, metapop exercises that may have moments or two but on the whole felt like clunky 'and-we-shift-HERE-do-you-see' concoctions. Arular in comparison is much more fluid and less, dare I say, forced, though of course I don't expect everyone to agree.

Also, as a pop album, it's kinda nice to hear a voice that *isn't* -- to my experience, there are I'm sure important qualifiers I'm missing -- a post-Brit/Xtina (and post-American Idol, if you like) experience. I'm not trying to say it's wholly unique, that's a foolish canard, and Dan has already noted some antecedents. But seen through the angle of pop-as-such, it's far more enjoyable to listen to than a lot of dreary things that have come down the pike.

to drewo: god forbid a year-end poll actually takes place at the actual end of the year rather than three months before it's finished (as w/Spin's year-end list)

(hugely reductive xpost: The incongruity of a woman writing "rebel music" in support of a "terrorist"/"freedom fighter" organization getting heavy play on Radio Disney! That seems to be a little to on the overtly-and-unacceptably political side for Teh Mouse.)

...if further attention gets paid to that part of her work. Question is, will it? That may seem naive but...well, let's see. I'll tell ya this much, I'm not going to even *try* and predict the future of this album and its public profile because right now that's a mug's game.

Ned, this is the whole fun of trying to predict this, that we don't know where this is going to go. That's even part of the appeal of M.I.A. (which means, er, I'm starting to lean in Matos's direction here).

By the way, what about Spice Girls? They mattered, but it wasn't in a way that registered big in Pazz & Jop as "mattering."

Oh, granted. I think I'm interested in observing and seeing what happens than trying to see whether I was 'right' or not, I dunno.

I will bet you my entire salary on that fact.

$2 after taxes?

OK, Drewo, here's a challenge: Recruit a thousand or so critics to provide you with their top tens by January 1, 2006, and tally the results with full fact-checking in place and all essay comments assembled in under a month. As one of the volunteer compilers I find your statement a little bit offensive and a whole lot uninformed.

Sorry for the minor derailing of the topic at hand.

creepy, i just reviewed Arular for the paper here in Athens and likened M.I.A. to those same three artists, plus Dylan and Beck, in her ability to make compelling, emotionally responsive art without allowing the audience to get draw too much of a bead on her own personality (ie. authorial detachment, chameleonic tendencies).

creepy, i just reviewed Arular for the paper here in Athens and likened M.I.A. to those same three artists, plus Dylan and Beck, in her ability to make compelling, emotionally responsive art without allowing the audience to get draw too much of a bead on her own personality (ie. authorial detachment, chameleonic tendencies).

! Fascinating! I honestly didn't expect anyone else to necessarily be following along with that train of thought. The new meme starts here?

Odds are it'll be my top pick. Enjoy your maelstrom of mixed emotions and cognitive dissonance, fuckahs.

The buzz on Arular is massive. It will go Top 5 in P&J for sure.

Ned - I'm not seeing much of a difference here. If she hits as more than a novelty, it will be as a pop phenomenon, and to hit like that it helps to be popularly perceived as paddling in ahead of the wave.

how are any of those other lists remotely comparable to pazz & jop?

(Several months later I taped Drop That Bottom for the Ryerson's. I can't describe how wonderful it was too hear Jordana singing, "Do it like this, do it like that, drop your bottom.")

Hm, true enough. Still, there's a *lot* of expectation being read into this album in some corners, due to its range and source material, as being The Best Current Argument Against R**kism Ever (which in turn has already been implicitly acknowledged in earlier pieces, so it's hardly a fresh observation to say that). I find that dynamic frustrating and ultimately limited, not that I think it's some sort of conscious decision on the part of many. Subtextually, though, it's interesting what's sometimes seeped through.

pink has a song called "my vietnam"!

and as miccio himself said:

"Most memorable line in the single is about seasoning a mango."

Joseph -- do we really need a thousand critics to make this poll? Especially since the results parallel pretty much every other year-end music poll out there. And what's with the points system? Does anyone really care about year-over-year points awards, and if they do, is that not pretty pathetic when picking favorite pop records? Like Christgau's essays -- it's a case of overkill.

And I don't understand why the the thread-starter would single out this particular music poll (I think the M.I.A. album is great and will make lots of lists), unless ilx is some VV-sponsored site.

Deliberate obtuseness is not sexy, guys.

Er, don't want to derail this thread, since I think "rockism" is a delusion on the part of antirockists, a false issue, a straw man, but if you do want to use the phrase "Argument Against R**kism" it has to include the concept "doesn't have a ghost of a fucking chance of finishing Top Five in the Pazz & Jop albums list." Maybe the Ying Yang Twins winning album of the year would be Argument Against R**kism, but not Arular.

That said, the sequence from "Amazon" through "MIA" isn't slight in the slightest. A massive buildup to a perfect payoff.

Which is what?

xpost: Oh, so Radio Disney was all over that nursery rhyme single that Korn put out a few years back, then?

I love "Galang"; it's my favorite track, and the "yah yah heyyy, oey oey oh oh oh" near the end reminds me vaguely of being at the Galle Face beach, listening to the fishermen's chants as they hauled in the day's catch. But I saw the video the other day, and as she's dancing all these stenciled pink bombs fell in Pop Art sheets behind her.

Same way "Shiny Shiny" and "The Clapping Song" do: Goose chewed tobacco on the streetcar line. Line broke monkey got choked they all went to heaven in a little row boat.

ha, just like rob sheffield re: "surrender" by cheap trick!:

"some indonesian junk that's goin' round"

That's the best line of criticism I've read in days.

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0011,tracker_writer.inc,13242,.html

all i'm saying is I doubt this year's winner will be someone none of us have heard of yet, right now the front-runner's M.I.A. but the only folks I see knocking her off are already-established artists who release stuff later in the year - so far, nothing's looking too terribly world-beating (possible exceptions of brooce and outkast i guess).

James is right about Avril changing everything on Disney, except the change was already gathering steam pre-Avril, with Pink and with Michelle Branch and (remember!) Nelly Furtado. And Creed.

(Question, though: When people vote Franz Ferdinand or OutKast they think it's speaking to them in a deep demographically emotional way; are there enough P&Jers who feel this about M.I.A.?)

"The decoratively arrayed, pastel-washed tigers, soldiers, guns, armored vehicles, and fleeing civilians that bedeck her album are images, not propaganda — the same stuff that got her nominated for an Alternative Turner Prize in 2001. They're now assumed to be incendiary because, unlike art buyers, rock and roll fans are assumed to be stupid."

Unles you're even superficially acquainted with the Tamil Tigers, I doubt that the cover-art images would register with a purchaser. "Bits of Eastern/orientalist chic" a smarty-pants might say. I've listened to the album a half-dozen times and it's hard to parse her politics.

I guess this is a roundabout way of saying that Radio Disney can promote the hell out of "Arular" if it chooses.

But, Frank, there's lots of P & J voters on ILM, and so far either no one's unduly bothered by the deep/heavy criticism.

(xpost: Is Radio Disney in the habit of promoting gun/armored vehicle/fleeing civilian imagery?)

Well, that's an extreme statement, since there were people who'd heard of Nirvana pre-Nevermind, and maybe a few who'd heard of Liz Phair pre-Exile (to name two late year winners), but ahem, the unexpected does generally happen when you don't expect it, at least in my experience, so this is something none of us will really predict. But I don't think it was clear in March 1999 that Moby and 69 Love Songs were going to finish one-two, or in March 2000 that OutKast and Eminem would be Radiohead's and Harvey's main competitors.

...hm, now is this what Mr. Blount was referring to with "the press around mia, anti and pro, has been fairly rockist on both sides," though?

I don't think so Ned, but maybe. I mean I'm talking as somebody who's broadly speaking a Pop fan. I listen to the mainstream of all this stuff and I honestly think M.I.A. is just out-songing all of them at the moment. Not that I'd pretend to be objective, but I do hear this cross-genre hookiness in her work that's likely to appeal to critics come poll time.

2) How can you possibly lump all the daily writers into one stereotypic group and assume that they're all less hot on this album than the weekly/blogger crowd? That's insane. Daily writers are as diverse as any other group. And probably more likely to write honest reviews, rather than the pandering ones in glossies.

3) You people honestly think that a musician who will be lucky to sell 100,000 copies of her album in the United States has a legitimate shot at winning P&J? Placing high, sure, but winning? Forget it.

Oddly enough, I hadn't heard of that song or Daddy Yankee until today. It's pretty good.

Who Cares about Pazz and Jop

It's October, due time for all P&J-related threads to pop back up.

I mean, a blip on Google news, sure. So maybe a handful of critics who'd been sleeping on it decided to finally give it a listen. Not enough, IMO.

Kanye
Sufjan
New Pornographers
Spoon
MIA

hahahahahaha no way

the new one sold a lot more than any of their others, I'd say they're definitely more high-profile right now.

Where do you see McCartney placing? I'm never any good with predicting rankings for dudes like him. I thought the album was fairly well acclaimed, like, I dunno, The Rising.

As with The College Dropout, it benefits from the sheer number of votes it will receive. It's few people's absolute favorite, but LOTS of people like it well enough to put it somewhere on their top ten.

New Pornographers and Spoon quite possibly not top ten. (Hell, I thought people didn't like this New Porn one all that much. Why would they finish higher than they ever have?) Antony will finish higher than either of them I bet (but won't win.) Sufjan too, I agree. Probably Sleater Kinney and White Stripes and Franz Ferdinand too, though I could be wrong, My Morning Jacket, it just occured to me in the last couple days, could go top 10,

My money is on Kanye repeating right now, though an MIA upset would be a lot of fun.

Well, that's just it, Chuck. This is their best-reviewed reunion album, so the sentimental vote will join the aesthetic-merit vote for a pretty high placing. I can't see it placing below #20.

i'm also surprised you guys are so down on McCartney, seems like he's getting better marks in general than the Stones (fwiw I like 'em about equal) - if there's gonna be a token fogey in the top 10 or 20 I think it's him (certainly not Neil Young or Stevie I wouldn't imagine).

This nonsense justifies Rolling Stone's editorial decision to always run a Stones/Mick Jagger review in tandem with a Macca.

http://rateyourmusic.com/top_albums/year_is_2005

1 Sufjan Stevens:Illinois
2 Kraftwerk: Minimum - Maximum
3 Animal Collective: Feels
4 Opeth: Ghost Reveries
5 Sigur Rós: Takk...
6 Paul McCartney: Chaos and Creation in the Backyard
7 System of a Down: Mezmerize
8 The Decemberists:Picaresque
9 Porcupine Tree: Deadwing
10 The Mars Volta: Frances The Mute
11 Andrew Bird: Andrew Bird & The Mysterious Production of Eggs
12 Dark Tranquillity: Character
13 Iron Maiden: Death on the Road
14 Bright Eyes: I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning
15 Strapping Young Lad: Alien
16 John Frusciante: Curtains
17 Trivium: Ascendancy
18 Pelican: The Fire in Our Throats Will Beckon the Thaw
19 Sleater-Kinney: The Woods
20 Wolf Parade: Apologies to the Queen Mary
21 Antony and the Johnsons: I Am a Bird Now
22 Broken Social Scene: Broken Social Scene
23 Common: Be
24 Nevermore: This Godless Endeavor
25 Broadcast: Tender Buttons
26 Eels: Blinking Lights and Other Revelations
27 Clap Your Hands Say Yeah: Clap Your Hands Say Yeah
28 Dredg: Catch Without Arms
29 Kanye West: Late Registration
30 Thelonious Monk: Thelonious Monk Quartet With John Coltrane At Carnegie Hall
31 Nile: Annihilation of the Wicked
32 Spoon: Gimme Fiction
33 The New Pornographers: Twin Cinema
34 Devendra Banhart: Cripple Crow
35 Jesu: Jesu
36 Boards of Canada: The Campfire Headphase
37 Kamelot: The Black Halo
38 Ryan Adams: Cold Roses
39 Kreator: Enemy of God
40 Coheed and Cambria: Good Apollo I'm Burning Star IV: Volume One: From Fear Through The Eyes Of Madness
41 Pat Metheny: The Way Up
42 Sage Francis: A Healthy Distrust
43 Dane Cook: Retaliation
45 Jaga Jazzist: What We Must
46 Low: The Great Destroyer
47 Ulver: Blood Inside
48 Architecture In Helsinki: In Case We Die
49 Dälek: Absence
50 Bloc Party: Silent Alarm
51 Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings: Naturally
52 Patrick Wolf: Wind in the Wires
53 M.I.A. [GBR]: Arular
54 Gorillaz: Demon Days
55 Of Montreal: The Sunlandic Twins
56 Okkervil River: Black Sheep Boy
57 Edan: Beauty and the Beat
58 Josh Rouse: Nashville
59 Danger Doom: The Mouse And The Mask
60 Dream Theater: Octavarium
61 A Silver Mt. Zion: Horses In The Sky
62 Pickering Pick: Trafalgar
63 Black Label Society: Mafia
64 Fall Out Boy: From Under The Cork Tree
65 LCD Soundsystem: LCD Soundsystem
66 The National: Alligator
67 Between the Buried and Me: Alaska
68 Bruce Springsteen: Devils & Dust
69 Aimee Mann: The Forgotten Arm
70 13 & God: 13 & God
71 Judas Priest: Angel of Retribution
72 Doves: Some Cities
73 Queens of the Stone Age: Lullabies to Paralyze
74 Beck: Guero
75 Emiliana Torrini: Fisherman's Woman
76 Port-Royal: Flares
77 Fantômas: Suspended Animation
78 Candlemass: Candlemass
79 Mew: And the Glass Handed Kites
80 Depeche Mode: Playing the Angel
81 The White Stripes: Get Behind Me Satan
82 Stephen Malkmus: Face the Truth
83 M. Ward: Transistor Radio
84 DevilDriver: The Fury Of Our Maker's Hand
85 Morrissey: Live at Earls Court
86 Foo Fighters: In Your Honor
87 The Mountain Goats: The Sunset Tree
88 The Books: Lost And Safe
89 Napalm Death: The Code Is Red... Long Live The Code
Howl
90 Black Rebel Motorcycle Club: Howl
91 Bonnie "Prince" Billy & Matt Sweeney: Superwolf
92 Martha Wainwright: Martha Wainwright
93 M83: Before the Dawn Heals Us
94 Franz Ferdinand: You Could Have It So Much Better
95 Kent: Du & jag döden
96 Audioslave: Out of Exile
97 Meshuggah: Catch Thirty Three
98 Death Cab for Cutie: Plans
99 Six Organs of Admittance: School of the Flower
100 Super Furry Animals: Love Kraft

short of returning Kanye and Dangerdoom and more grime, I don't know what will get in this year. I'm not sure if my perspective is distorted by the influx of rap blogs and Pitchfork rap coverage in the past year, but I'm curious to see if stuff like Young Jeezy or Three 6 or Mike Jones will manage to make the kind of dent that T.I. didn't.

2 Kraftwerk: Minimum - Maximum
4 Opeth: Ghost Reveries
9 Porcupine Tree: Deadwing
12 Dark Tranquillity: Character
13 Iron Maiden: Death on the Road
15 Strapping Young Lad: Alien
16 John Frusciante: Curtains
17 Trivium: Ascendancy
18 Pelican: The Fire in Our Throats Will Beckon the Thaw
24 Nevermore: This Godless Endeavor
25 Broadcast: Tender Buttons
28 Dredg: Catch Without Arms
31 Nile: Annihilation of the Wicked
35 Jesu: Jesu
37 Kamelot: The Black Halo
39 Kreator: Enemy of God

I mean, I WISH Opeth would finish, but it won't. Doubt Coltrane/Monk will either, come to think of it, though I suppose it has some kind of weird outside shot. (Great album, btw.)

Bloc Party is better than most of the alt and indie records that people are saying have a shot, but I'd kinda forgot that it existed. Probably not top 10, and very possibly not Top 20, but I won't complain at all if it finishes high. Sure deserves it more than Antony does.

I'd forget LCD Soundsystem exists, too. I'll be surprised if it goes top 20, but who knows?

You mean this lot ?

ZEE INDIE ROCK ROBOTS LIST for 20/30somethings AKA Whatever Paste, Magnet magazine, Pitchfork, US Alt Weeklies and indie rawk bloggers sez rulez OK

1 Sufjan Stevens:Illinois
8 The Decemberists: Picaresque
11 Andrew Bird: Andrew Bird & The Mysterious Production of Eggs
14 Bright Eyes: I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning
19 Sleater-Kinney: The Woods
20 Wolf Parade: Apologies to the Queen Mary
22 Broken Social Scene: Broken Social Scene [melodic Sonic Youth Karaoke]
27 Clap Your Hands Say Yeah: Clap Your Hands Say Yeah
32 Spoon: Gimme Fiction
33 The New Pornographers: Twin Cinema
34 Devendra Banhart: Cripple Crow
48 Architecture In Helsinki: In Case We Die
55 Of Montreal: The Sunlandic Twins
82 Stephen Malkmus: Face the Truth
94 Franz Ferdinand: You Could Have It So Much Better
98 Death Cab for Cutie: Plans [indie gone major label $ sellout]

The Black Eyed Peas scored other hits this year.

The top 100 list is compiled using algorithms from the data in the rateyourmusic database.

Dammit, now I feel bad about not giving Comets on Fire enough dap.

The fact that nobody on this thread has mentioned the Hold Steady yet startles the hell outta me. If they don't finish Top 20 I'm gonna be surprised.

Kanye
Sufjan
Antony
Franz
MIA

is my vote, until i remember something else.

http://www.metacritics.com/music/bests/2005.shtml

1 Illinois by Sufjan Stevens 2005 90
2 Hypermagic Mountain by Lightning Bolt 2005 90
3 Z by My Morning Jacket 2005 88
4 I Am A Bird Now by Antony And The Johnsons 2005 88
5 The Woods by Sleater-Kinney 2005 87
6 Arular by M.I.A. 2005 87
7 Clap Your Hands Say Yeah by Clap Your Hands Say Yeah 2005 86
8 Lookaftering by Vashti Bunyan 2005 86
9 Apologies To The Queen Mary by Wolf Parade 2005 86
10 Minimum-Maximum [Live] by Kraftwerk 2005 85
11 Black Sheep Boy by Okkervil River 2005 85
12 The Mysterious Production Of Eggs by Andrew Bird 2005 85
13 Mezmerize by System Of A Down 2005 85
14 Extraordinary Machine by Fiona Apple 2005 85
15 The Runners Four by Deerhoof 2005 85
16 LCD Soundsystem by LCD Soundsystem 2005 85
17 Thunder, Lightning, Strike by The Go! Team 2005 85
18 I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning by Bright Eyes 2005 85
19 Blinking Lights And Other Revelations by Eels 2005 84
20 Beauty And The Beat by Edan 2005 84
21 Oceans Apart by The Go-Betweens 2005 84
22 Separation Sunday by The Hold Steady 2005 84
23 These Were The Earlies by The Earlies 2005 84
24 Takk... by Sigur Rós 2005 84
25 Chavez Ravine by Ry Cooder 2005 84
26 Twin Cinema by The New Pornographers 2005 84
27 This Right Here Is Buck 65 by Buck 65 2005 84
28 Late Registration by Kanye West 2005 84
29 School Of The Flower by Six Organs Of Admittance 2005 83
30 Lost And Safe by The Books 2005 83

[two of these albums are 2004 release, but released in US 2005 [Go Team, Earlies]

Yes, entirely.

Clap Your Hands etc.
Wolf Parade
Lightning Bolt
Fiona
Deerhoof (?)
Bright Eyes
Death Cab

Will the Go! Team count for this year?

Both the McCartney album and the RS album have surprised a lot of critics, many of whom were required to listen to them. I could see them picking up enough votes among the younger contingent to place well, although there might be a split ballot issue here.

Speaking of which, any chance of an executive decision to group the two SoD albums together?

When they were released six months apart? No way. They're no more the same album than Flip Your Wig and New Day Rising were, and a lot less the same album than Use Your Illusions I and II (which were not P&J-combined) were. Bright Eyes is two different albums as well, even though there are promo CDs which contain both in the same two-disc set.) (*69 Love Songs,* on the contrary, for instance, was actually apparently sold as a three-CD set, though I've never seen one. Mine were three separate CDs, but Xgau swears it was sold as a package, so I believed him. Hope we wasn't just trying to help them out!)

Yeah, Coldplay could do well. As could Fiona Apple, who hasn't been mentioned much here. Liz Phair might do better than last time, though she shouldn't, and might do worse. And weird that nobody mentioned Hold Steady til recently, given that I plan to vote for the thing.

(As for Lightning Bolt, I dunno. Again, I was under the impression that people were talking about this one *less* than than the last two. It's definitely a duller record, or maybe I'm just all okay okay I got the point three years ago guys. On the other hand, I've heard people call it more "accessible", so maybe LB will rake in all those stray Oxes and Fucking Champs votes.) (Oh wait, there aren't any.)

Yeah, I think the first 1,000 copies came as a box w/ a big booklet, and after that they were sold separately. They were definitely imagined as a single statement.

man, there's a lot of albums on those lists that i haven't even heard yet, mainly on purpose. makes me feel like a slacker tho. How out an insurgent campaign for congotronics?

2. No grouping of Ryan Adams' Rock n Roll and Love Is Hell in 2003, and they came out on the same day. Properly. I'm not so sure that the two Bright Eyes records are, in fact, separate albums. There's an awful lot of commentary back and forth.

3. There has been a tsunami of My Morning Jacket hype recently. Many, many people seem to like that record disproportionately to anything I can glean from the two songs I've heard. Anyway, I'm surprised that it isn't getting more discussion in this thread; it's the first rock record in forever I've heard people praising spontaneously without feeling they have to explain why they like it (as with, for instance, The Woods).

4. Kanye: On the one hand, who wants to vote for the same guy two years in a row, unless you think he's the greatest artist ever, which no one does about Kanye? On the other hand, Late Registration is clearly superior to College Dropout in almost every respect except for coming second and not having Jesus Walks. Kanye won last year because he was the official "See, I don't hate all hip-hop and stuff real people like" choice. This year, he will have stiff competition from OutKast, who have traditionally owned that category.

Bright Eyes is definitely two albums. Artists let commentary go back and forth between two or more albums by themselves all the time, not just when they're released on the same day. SO: not a consideration.

No no. This is the Predict the Future thread. The Read Other People's Minds thread is over there.

I certainly don't think reviewers should wait to take notice of major publications, but I think that's often how critical opinion gathers steam: positive reviews from prominent outlets encourage other critics to say "hey, I should probably give that a listen" if they haven't already. Also factor in the promotional push. EVERYONE knew about Late Registration before it even came out, and early raves ensured that almost every critic worth his or her salt would at least pay attention to the record.

As for Isolee, unless you read ILM, or happen to catch a review on Pitchfork or Stylus the day it runs, or are otherwise entrenched in the electronic/dance community, where are you going to hear about Wearemonster? And if you don't live in a big city with import sections in your record stores, and if you don't do the download thing (plenty of people don't), how are you going to even hear it? I could be wrong about this, but I doubt that Playhouse is sending thousands of promo copies across the U.S.

I reviewed it (4 stars!) for Uncut!

What about Trapped In The Closet? Will that count as one single, or 5?

The fact that VV reviews a helluva lot more hip hop and country and metal and etc. than ends up on the poll is obviously a good thing - P&J doesn't tell us what is wrong about the VV so much as what is right about it.

BTW in Australia 69 Love Songs wasn't even released in a box but in one of those 3-disc-holders like you get for "Songs of the 50s" compilations etc.

Obviously, I agree with this. But that doesn't mean people here don't often tend to confuse their own insular little world (which includes having certain friends, going to certain clubs, listening to certain radio stations, shopping at certain record stores, reading certain websites, paying attention to certain genres and ignoring others) with, uh, the whole world. Right, it's always that OTHER guy, who hasn't heard what YOU'VE heard, who's the lazy hack. Right. Even though you haven't heard what he's heard, either. What horseshit.

so why it would be a surprise, or an outrage, that young jeezy isn't going to win p+j or get on the cover of time, i have no idea.

Why did I spoof a funnier Onion headline? I’m not sure.

i don't think its simply about black/white. black people vote in p+j. white people listen to young jeezy.

but kanye disses bush, speaks out for gays, works with musicians outside of hip-hop, does songs that aren't strictly hip-hop. does a bunch of stuff that appeals very strongly to liberals, for want of a better word. and liberals are who read the voice and time.

young jeezy sings about dealing drugs, pretty much.

I don't think that's the outrage that people here are referring to. The outrage is that the recent hip-hop winners of P&J have been the types of hip-hop artists that would get on the cover of Time. This incenses some P&J voters who believe that Time is fusty, stodgy and, pretty much by definition, not "with it". Narcissism of small differences, etc, etc.

But it's a poll of over 1000 critics. It's not a carefully curated list of obscure choices that will surprise and impress people who typically read 50 other polls at the end of every year. Thus it reflects popular opinion. or, as chuck said, consensus. plus, time is hipper than you think it is, anyway.

This doesn't just go for hip-hop! It goes for pretty much *all* Pazz & Jop winners. (Rock critics LIKE get-on-the-cover-of-Timeness!)

I like *The Wire* and *Sopranos* about equally, for whatever it's worth. (But then again I always watch them years late on DVD.)

I may slightly prefer *Newsweek* to *Time*, but it's a close call.

& I prefer Young Jeezy's album to the new Kanye (but not the old one).

The point is not to be obscure. It's to ratify the sense that the hip-hop that is "safe" to liberal ears is not "as good" as hip-hop that is "dangerous" or "transgressive", especially when that "transgressive" hip-hop is actually more popular with "real people".

first-week sales figures for Young Jeezy: 176,000
first-week sales figures for Kanye West: 900,000

um, my point.

even ragged glory was a 'return to form' (or a 'return to horse' at least)

in most elections, if you can pick up voters outside your base, you're going to win. why this is bad isn't clear.

ah, but those young jeezy buyers are, you know, real people, so they count, like, quintiple

byt anyway, i'm not sure what groups are "outside of the rockcrit group"--you mean there's a "rapcrit group," a "countrycrit group," a "metalcrit group"? and how would you go about determining which crits fit each group? are you able to go down the entire list of p+j voters and slot them into a group?

Where was I in '86? Ann Arbor, I think. And, um, I wasn't talking to other critics much, to be honest. But yeah, I kinda remember it being "just another talking heads record, who cares." then again, i remember the "name of this band* live album from a few years earlier being even LESS than that -- nobody seemed to give a shit about it at all, which is one reason it didn't place in P&J, but when it was reissued a couple years ago suddenly it was this long-lost classic, which totally weirded me out. But oops, I'm getting off topic there.

>i'm not sure what groups are "outside of the rockcrit group"--you mean there's a "rapcrit group," a "countrycrit group," a "metalcrit group"? and how would you go about determining which crits fit each group? are you able to go down the entire list of p+j voters and slot them into a group?<

exactly my point above. rock critics vote for rap records, rap critics vote for pop records, blah blah blah. i doubt there's a single "country critic" per se (in terms of somebody who only votes for country records) in the poll; maybe there's a couple "metal critics" or "latin critics" here and there; maybe not. a small fraction of voters could MAYBE be pigeonholed, if that. and most of them wouldn't like it.

i guess i really wonder about this. do you have some alternate standard for a hip-hop album that should have won each of these years? should a hip-hop album other than kanye really have won last year? who was it? i can't think of anyone.

in other words, what do you mean by 'crossing over'? i think you're just presupposing that p+j is a rock poll, so by definition hip-hop albums have to cross over, and rock albums don't.

DING DING DING DING DING

Can I count reading this thread as "paying attention to the record?" Or do I have to give back my salt? (Though if I ever hear the thing I might actually vote for it, since I love that diamonds in the sierra sky thing.)

So far I think singles are going to be Kelly C., Amerie, Missy, Killers, I hope in that order but probably not.

Why do people who make a living or at least beer/DVD money writing about music like music with writerly qualities? IT IS A KOOKY MYSTERY

Dylan's stuff has a "simple--almost naive--musical background"? 'Scuse me, could you please say that again while replicating the fingerpicking from "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right"? Or working out the chords of "Po' Boy"? I mean, right, Jack Frost isn't Scott Storch, but "naive" is an unearned insult.

what albums should win p'n'j that don't qualify as any of these three? Powerage was totally a definite statement from an artist of now in '78!

I'm glad someone said this before I did.

x-post

Also, it's Kanye West, not Stacey Q or Def Leppard or Young Jeezy, who my kid's ninth grade English teacher assigns readings about, and puts fill-in-the-blank questions on quizes where sentences start by talking about how Kanye has "crazy flow." (True story.)

In general, Pazz & Jop awards the sort of music that high school English and Social Studies teachers would approve of. I think that's what Frank means by sociodemographic "importance."

ARRRRGH.

Why did Rolling Stone (et fucking al, i might add) give 5-stars to the bland new Kanye record and 3.5 stars to his debut? Because he wasn't some deified figure until well after his last album was out. Critics in the red states can't catch the buzz until everyone's talked something to death. Who can blame them for latching on to the Hold Steady?

And the same goes for the bullshit posturing on the blogosphere. This new Three 6 Mafia is exactly like their last two. Find me one person who puts it on their ballot who had them on in a different year.

It's really funny how people are being snobs about weekly writers in Missouri not having Bun B on their list, when Bun B couldn't fucking get a pixel of press two years ago in the webnrrd community.

Indie-rock folks get told what to like from someone, and internet snobs get told what to like from someone else.

I'm putting Odd Nosdam, Farm Fresh and Mouthus on my list and the internet can go die.

Which is why it's brilliant! Or was that not the point?

Also, can we stop hating on Kanye for being "feel-good." Last year he was "benz and a backpack! Yay!" Nowadays it feels like a bunch of 98-pound white grad students on the internet saying "kanye is bitchmade! [insert obscure houston thug] is the truth!" Its getting to be like "Holiday In Cambodia" around here sometimes.

And while i DO think no list is incomplete without some hip-hop on it (it is 2005, ferchrissakes), I'll be just as happy with a list with Dangerdoom and Atmosphere and Sage Francis as I would with a list with Jeezy, Bun B and Beanie.

And I'm be MOST happy with a list that had some variation of both.

~C

Also, Jello Biafra really needed his ass kicked by a gaggle of Ornette Coleman fans back in '79.

It's okay for critics to have other interests. Really.

P.S. I suspect I'll be the only person casting album votes for Jason Mraz, Robbie Williams, Alison Moyet, and Herbie Hancock. (No hip-hop in my lists so far, sorry.)

Perhaps because Rolling Stone realized that it IS a better album than the debut?

Sheffield reviewed Late Registration. His taste is as deliciously erratic as anyone's, but I'll take him over Robert Hilburn.

I guess a lot of blog dudes talked about it, including me, but uh 1. there were how many hip-hop blogs this time last year? Two? 2. How many of the people who run hip-hop blogs are around my age (22) or younger and had no vote on Pazz n Jop then anyway, or were just plain too young and not yet nerdy enough to 'list' their favorite music? Or maybe the fact that the higher profile 3-6 has this year had something to do w it - didn't it sell more than any of their other releases, on the back of probably their best single in the past couple years? Fuck I liked "Sippin on Syrup" when I was in high school but I sure wasn't voting about 'importance,' I probably would have told you the last DJ Premier track was the best of the year.

Point is there are a lot of reasons people on here are bitching about the lack of rap music and it isn't just because its 'trendy' to like certain rap right now.

I would say that you're overestimating the potential of BTHE.

I haven't been able to hear it in the same way since jaymc (accurately) likened it to Stacey Orrico (way to go, dude).

Anthony, the problem (inasmuch as it's a problem) is explained pretty well above (and elsewhere), I think.

In general, Pazz & Jop awards the sort of music that high school English and Social Studies teachers would approve of.

Chuck, I would have found it enormously endearing if my kids' ninth grade English teachers had done something like that.

But I don't do any of that as much as i woul;d like to. I do sometimes feel like publicists are telling me what color the world will be in two months.

And I wish Atlantic would tell me what the Lil Kim and Trina records sound like...

I think it's safe to say "It's Just Begun" was a big if not primary influence on mid-late '70s hip-hop DJs. Probably up there with "Apache".

people liking 'good' music instead of good music?

Nope.

>Chuck I would have found it enormously endearing if my kids' ninth grade English teachers had done something like that.<

I did!

1. Whatever promos I randomly get in the mail (mostly indie-ish)
2. ILM
3. The roughly 2 hours of MTV I watch per week
4. The handfull of print and web zines I skim
5. The continuation of personal interests
6. What buddies put on the mix CDs we exchange

This is why everyone will howl with laughter when they see my Pazz & Jop list. I can't remember the last time I listened to an MP3, in part because I can't do this at work and in part because I have no time.

Well, there was "Neanderthal Man" by Hot Legs (who were some prehistoric version of 10cc, if memory serves); was that before or after "Troglodyte"? And Kogan said a couple years ago that "Atom Bomb" by Fluke, which I happen to love by the way, had a sound that reminded him of "Troglodyte," but I never really figured out what he meant by that.

I can't stand MP3s. I can count all the ones I've listened to in my life on my fingers.

backing up a bit: another pedantic digression

I think it's safe to say "It's Just Begun" was a big if not primary influence on mid-late '70s hip-hop DJs. Probably up there with "Apache".

absolutely. both "apache" and "it's just begun" were still ubiquitous street jams, nyc anthems really, through the early 80s.

while obv Jimmy Castor imitations are few and far between (they broke the mold...)I'd suggest that his whacked-out influence can felt on now-forgotten old school jams like Captain Sky's "Super Sperm" or the collected oervre of Jimmy "Superrhymes" Spicer.

You know MP3s are computer files, right Chuck? Just like word files. You can keep them in folders and everything. But it's ok.

Yeah, I can maybe see a Castor/Captain Sky connection, though the two Captain Sky albums I'm heard seemed more fun in theory than in actuality. Not sure about Kool Keith though. (Hell, why not Newcleus or Jonzun Crew or Fat Boys or Biz Markie? who knows?)

And as for the MP3 forcing you to work on its schedule, that makes no sense whatsoever. If you don't know how to harness that unwieldy beast, fine. But don't blame the machine.

And Michaelangelo, I mentioned iPods in my above post. Still don't see how listening to one (even to podcasts, come to think of it) is remotely comparable to spinning the radio dial in a car, seeing what random stuff that I've never heard of before might come up.

Kool Keith may well reference Castor; I can sort of see a conceptual connection, I guess. But in the stuff I know by him, and Captain Sky and Newcleus and Jonzun Crew too, I hear a lot more Mothership than Bertha Butt. (Right, though, there's plenty I *haven't* heard, obviously. If he has truly Castor-worthy/Castory-like stuff, I'd love to know where it is. Kool Keith is one of those guys I always wanted to like, but he never clicked, somehow.)

I also don't own an iPod and love my Discman to death.

this is the first thing you've said that holds up.

ihttp://www.nchsband.com/pictures/Rookie%20Camp/Sorting%20Music.JPG

http://del.icio.us/

is an excellent way to organize links/information by tagging, it now has a built in media player for any link that is a mp3

as announced:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2005/10/29/wow-delicious-rolls-out-more-stuff/

last 100 mp3 links:
tp://del.icio.us/tag/system:filetype:mp3?setcount=100

most recent music tagged links
http://del.icio.us/tag/music

last 100 mp3 links:
http://del.icio.us/tag/system:filetype:mp3?setcount=100

No MP3 organization system could ever compete with a row of CD spines.

Plus who's gonna keep backing up all those files? Not me, that's for sure.

but i'd rather not do either

Hey wait, for a guy working for CMJ you seem awfully suspicious of a core part of your organization's raison d'etre!

But like you and Ned say, that's mostly a really cool thing, because it's so much easier to find and sample a huge gigantic array of things -- and also, it's not just the music that's more accessible but information about the music and musicians and styles, their forebears and descendants and derivatives, etc. It definitely changes to some degree how music works, how we relate to it, what it means in the culture. But hasn't that been true several times already over the last 100 years? Music in 1980 was functioning in ways that was radically different than how it functioned in 1880 (not that there aren't continuities too, obviously there are continuities in the musical experience all the way from the first apeman cave band or whatever).

On the other hand and that all said, last night I walked into a real live record store, bought a CD by a band I'd never heard of (Ha-Ash), took it home, liked it a lot, and despite the farflung resources of the Web have so far been able to find out nothing about the band apart from the fact that they have one other album and that they consist of two women who I think are probably from Mexico.

Hey wait, for a guy working for CMJ you seem awfully suspicious of a core part of your organization's raison d'etre!

Most of the stuff that kids play on the radio is from CDs sent from the same record companies that send me CDs. Not MP3s.

...Not that I'm not suspicious of our raison d'etre. I'll be the first to tell you how unlistenable most college radio is!

Issues of piracy/file sharing/whatever aside, I don't see how easier accessibility to music can possibly be a bad thing. Are people in television talking about this stuff? If all programming eventually switches to on-demand or TiVo, then TV schedules get tossed out the window. Is my viewing experience lessened by being able to watch my shows whenever I want rather than having to be home on Tuesday at 9PM to watch them? Can I still fully appreciate a series by renting DVD's of the entire season rather than following it from week to week when it originally aired? I say the answer is no. In the same way, spending days or months in music stores tracking down records should not automatically be the proper way to absorb a band's music, as opposed to d/l'ing their entire catalogue in an hour from slsk or wherever.

That said, I don't truly feel like I own a piece of music unless I go out, pay money for a physical object, and bring it home. Some people do feel "ownership" for mp3's (whether they were paid for or not), but I don't. However, my sense of ownership doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the feelings I have toward the music -- for instance, most of my favourite singles of 2005 exist in my house in mp3 form.

mir easier access is only a problem when normal people have as much easy access (or more considering xhuxkx flashing vcr and various other fogey obstacles and hack stubborness) as ye olde (asleep at the) gatekeepers.

Well actually, most of the mp3s I'm emailed (that I won't listen to) are *from* publicists (or record labels, bands, club promoters, etc.) I still don't see how listening mainly to what one gets sent is a *problem,* unless you're only being sent stuff by the same two or three publicists all the time. I get sent pretty much everthing, from everybody, and it's all competing with each other, and everybody else.

And hanging on to VCR tapes doesn't give somebody less access than if they'd got rid of them, it gives them *more*. (Though to be honest, my own VCR tapes are all in a storage garage now, along with my cassettes, and most of my DVDs for that matter.) Honestly, though, I seriously doubt many people who download have access to more music than I do. Certainly not access to more *new* music. No fucking way.

>spending days or months in music stores tracking down records should not automatically be the proper way to absorb a band's music, as opposed to d/l'ing their entire catalogue in an hour from slsk or wherever.<

Right, but I have to think some *emotional* connection to the music is lost when you don't have album covers to look at, etc. At some point, it turns into *just music.* Which is okay, I guess, in that it might keep critics from critiquing via extraneous factors such as what haircut the singer is wearing on the cover, and therefore make the criticism more "pure" or whatever. (Which, admittedly, might be something I've hoped for more than once.) But no way can it be as fun.

I have gotten this feeling finding something at 2 in the morning on slsk after months of looking...

I can see that, but one difference, is, usually when I've come across a Holy Grail record in a thrift store or wherever, I'm NOT looking for it; I'm stumbling upon it by *accident*, often without having even thought of it for ages. And meanwhile I'm also buying records I never even heard of for $1, because their album covers look really cool or weird. Is there an equivalent in the downloading world? Maybe there is, and I just haven't thought of it. To me, downloading just seems more *controlled.* (Though maybe people download songs because the bands have really cool names sometimes; I'm sure that happens.)

Tangent: awhile ago somebody (I think it was Kelefa Sanneh in the Times) wrote something incredibly stupid - that shuffling an iPod was like listening to the greatest radio station in the world because you'd be surprised all the time. But why would you be surprised? If it's your iPod, you put all that music on there yourself. Grab an iPod from a random stranger and put it on shuffle: then you've got some randomness.

And I download a LOT of records based on the name, more often of the song than of the band.

The 'accident' thing equivalent is checking out somebody's file list and coming across something forgotten but hoped-for on it.

I don't think a lot of people do this kind of thing, though I wish they did - it's fun. I'm writing something for Stylus about it at the moment.

just because pop recordings are no longer objects to be owned and cherished doesn't mean that the music itself (and peoples capacity to appreciate it)has been diminished by technology.

quite the opposite, if ILM is any indication!

My point is this: isn't it kind of starry-eyed to imagine that critics, who generally know what they like (but, again, are willing to be surprised if something falls into their laps) are gonna listen to a wider variety of music via downloading? I think, at best, they will download tracks by more artists within the genres they're already paying attention to.

They can do both -- and the increased availability means it's *easier* for them to do both. Critics (and fans) are less likely to search for new music in a record store than online, because it's a larger investment of time + energy to look for things in a store.

Critics who are apprehensive about d/l'ing might be stuck in "record store mode" -- they don't want to put forth the effort to track down certain types of music but they don't fully appreciate how EASY it is to do it (provided you know what networks or websites to search on, of course, but *that* information is incredibly easy to come by as well).

It all depends how you do it. I've downloaded a lot of stuff randomly that popped up while I was looking for something else, either because it somehow interested me or sometimes just totally by mistake. Two examples: I once d/l'd what was identified as an Eminem live track and turned out to be "Matty Groves" by Fairport Convention, which I'd never heard but prompted me to go and download the entire Liege and Lief album. Another time I was looking for something, no idea what, and something came up by Psycho le Cemu, which I downloaded because I thought it might be some kind of French electro thing. Turned out to be a totally great piece of power-pop by a Japanese band that dresses up like superheroes. I never would have found Psycho le Cemu in a record store (and nothing else I've found by them is as good as that first track, so I got doubly lucky).

And now with the proliferation of mp3 blogs, all specializing in different kinds of things, if you're somebody with catholic tastes and an interest in exploring, you can do a huge amount of wandering and sampling in all sorts of areas every day from home, for free. If you're not inclined to do that, sure, you can stay narrowly focused, but that's to do with the user, not the technology.

The ability for surprise can still happen in that traditional context, though. For instance -- I knew about Bloc Party at the start of the year but hadn't heard them yet. Then I was at a friend's house party where she was streaming some satellite station and I heard "Banquet" for the first time -- knocked me for a loop and then some, and is easily my single of the year hands down. Now sure, they make music that it's very easy for me to love, I'll grant, but a LOT of bands do that, so I'm quite glad this one took me off guard.

Gypsy Mothra's point ultimately is key -- "that's to do with the user, not the technology." I will not pretend to be the most catholic listener out there in terms of active pursuit; this is in large part because after my particular crisis of listening a couple of years back my focus with music is less overtly central for me -- if anything it's been a return to reading history books and plotting more to do with my own writing in general. But even so I'm able to keep up with a hell of a lot by clicking a few links and activating a couple of programs, and given the sheer volume of what is out there -- I am hardly swamped with the same level of promos as Chuck but what I do get gives me an idea of what it must be like -- that approach seems to me to be the most sensible one for what's happening.

If I can, let me draw a parallel with my own work at the library -- there, we have switched over the last few years from photocopied articles and selections of books to scanning in those items (when not already online, which with academic journals is increasingly the case) for download. Beforehand, you essentially had a wide range of people competing for a small resource -- if someone checked out a book while the selection from the book on reserve was also checked out, then you were stuck. Now, anyone from home can download what they need from home, get all that they need for their course, etc. It may be more 'solipsistic,' fine, but quite obviously what matters is getting the information to those who need it. (That a school/library model is clearly not a record business model is obvious, but I like to think the larger point applies.)

one of the radio stations i visted last month said it was a pain in the ass to play MP3s and refused to (for the time being).

I can only go by what they report, which seems very in tune with the packages I get in the mail.

And also:

[i]what college radio stations report /= what cmj reports they report[/i]

A single person who hasn't worked here in two years made a completely boner fucking move, which has absolutely nothing to do with what we do here now.

(Also, I first herad MIA on that Diplo mix)

Like If I don't have good MP3-blog disseminating habits, am I doing my job wrong?

Should I be downloading every "important" record I don't have?

Should I be downloading the records i don't get sent, so I can hear what they sound like?

I get real bummed out. I'm not so sure if some of us are gonna have jobs in 15 years.

Don't discount the joy in deleting a great track after you've already burned it on a CD!

This is true. Once a track or album is transfered a CD/DVD/HD, there's a sense of permanence about it. It's like "congratulations, Autechre Live in NYC 2001, we're pleased with your performance to date and would like to offer you a tenured position in our organisation".

Some expert you are!

I probably wouldn't have thought about the whole MP3 vs. CD thing ever again (having already pretty well worked it out for myself in my head), had the subject not come up. I have spent a fair amount of time thinking about all the records that people seem to get so worked up about here and on Pitchfork and Stylus and in Spin and Rolling Stone and all the other places where rock hackery is going on, and how come I've never heard any of them, and whether that means I'm "wrong" about the stuff I do listen to, though.

I know how to write features. Which I assume will save me once rock writing turns into nothing but referencing an obscure line from a popular rap song followed by talking about yourself for five paragraphs.

I mean:

I'm High Like Giraffe Ass
So, I was worrying about my MP3 intake today when I heard the new Audion track. The first time I heard Audion was two years ago in my friend's car...

Not sure, Jess. I know some serious audiophiles ... but then you have folks like me who can live with a Target-purchased portable, a CD-ROM drive and iPod earbuds.

Anyway, I expect My Morning Jacket and Sleater-Kinney to both make top 10 ... MMJ because of the word-of-mouth it's generating and S-K because of how how they've historically performed. That seems to carry weight in this poll.

Interesting thing will be to see how the System albums do -- I know that Mezmerize is my personal #1 at the moment. But they're sort of an acquired taste.

Rock publications and webzines that think it's cool to run reviews/features that read like blog posts are killing rock criticism.

Haven't heard the second one as of yet, but if it measures up to the first, that may present a conundrum when voting time comes around.

As to the benefits and drawbacks of being perceived as capital-I Important, or avoiding being perceived as capital-I Important, that's another topic, though one that's obviously relevant to M.I.A. As a kid I thrilled to that old TV show The 20th Century with deep-voiced Walter Cronkite announcing world-important events (the Battle for Stalingrad, for instance). As an adult I got a big kick out of Mystery Science Theater 3000, which was basically a bunch of people sitting around making wisecracks about the silly and shitty movies that were playing on video. The silliness and shittiness of the movies allowed for the wit and creativity of the commentators. They couldn't have done it to Schindler's List.

Stop torturing me, Phil.

Also, Schindler's List had fairly good production values and acting. Or does this factor into its Important-ness?

(But mocking the obviously important is a different dynamic from goofing around to the silly and apparently unimportant. I've dreamed of an animated version of the concentration camps where signs in the background would say "You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps," or "Save water: shower with a friend." Maybe South Park has one in the works.)

I'll let Frank figure out Exile in Guyville (my favorite of those three, though that's besides the point.)

I think Anthony is right to point out this is tautology of sorts. But I still don't get why he's blind to certain albums are marketed as Important and others being marketed otherwise.

These are Above the Fold Headlines, Anthony! Rock critics have to justify their Importance so they can justify their journalism salaries! Stop pretending you don't get it!!

Chuck, all reviews are justifications of importance. You just use quotations around the compliments when you don't buy them yourself.

And right, Dylan's real return to form was the boring one before that. But the 9-11 stuff stands.

I think the dynamic goes like this: There's a certain type of critic that is quick to call something they like "important". Then if the marketing people at the record company smell money, they take blurbs from said critics and turn them into ads, stickers on CD cases, etc. Pretty soon, if they do their jobs well and fortune favors them, the word has gotten around that this album is something "important".

I think most consumers of culture are curious about things that are labeled "important" because they don't want to be out of the loop. There's a certain need to be culturally literate - to not be ignorant of the things that the cultural gatekeepers have deemed worthy of consideration. This is the effect that the marketing people are trying to achieve. You don't have to like Wilco, but you should at least have some idea what Yankee Hotel Foxtrot is, or that is the perception that people have.

and again, chuck, you use capitals and quotation marks around a compliment when you think its an irrelevant shuck, when it's not REALLY that thing. if you were truly indifferent to importance or newsworthiness you wouldn't bother protecting the term.

They do???????

x-post Dan, I basically am looking at Rolling Stone as my model. A lot of music listeners aren't like that but most critics are, that's why they write long pieces about what they like and why.

x-post there's a difference between "cultural relevance" and "cultural literacy." an album somebody thinks is really exceptional they think other people should check out, but it might not actually create world peace or whatever the hell relevance stands for.

oh and obv. I'm referring to critics when I say "people" in that paragraph above (though critics are people too, just people who are supposed to appreciate a wider variety of music for reasons that reaffirm what assholes we be)

yeah, because rock criticism historically has NEVER EVER EVER had these kind of tendencies, it's all the interweb's fault, oh yes. and now, off to my Flat Earth Society meeting.

That's kind of how I think of it...I mean, I never have any illusion or even intention that anybody's going to (or should!) rush out and buy something because I say I like it. I can't even get my wife to listen to a lot of stuff that I like. I think of it more like, if you're part of the self-selecting audience that ever reads music reviews, here's something you might possibly be interested in at least knowing about even if you never hear it. (It's also why I try to keep descriptions as simple as possible. I hate reviews that invoke colors or flavors or astral planes or long autobiographical metaphors ("this record is the used Chevy Nova my older used to drive, the one with the stale cigarette smell and broken passenger window, the one I lost my virginity in to a girl with straight hair and knobby knees") but somehow never quite give me any idea what the damn thing sounds like.) I couldn't care less if anyone buys any particular record, that's for the artists and publicists to worry about, right?

Is there a requirement she should?

A lot of people dig things for reasons I find superficial, bullshit and less genuinely rewarding than the reasons I like what I like.

A lot of people dig things for reasons I find superficial, bullshit and less genuinely rewarding than the reasons I like what I like.

A lot of people dig things for reasons I find superficial, bullshit and less genuinely rewarding than the reasons I like what I like.

A lot of people dig things for reasons I find superficial, bullshit and less genuinely rewarding than the reasons I like what I like.

I just gave you 1 1/2 stars on my blog. Checkmate.

She vetoed that part of the wedding vows.

NOT SO FAST: I didn't even mention you on my blog!

9-11, Patriarchal Society, and Evil Music Conglomerates to thread!

(xpost)

I'm saying the exact opposite! That's precisely why they wrote those reviews (and I won't mention names).

-- Dan (BURN) Perry ([email protected]), November 1st, 2005. (Dan Perry)

dan, you forced my hand...

http://danperrywasthedrummerforgaydad.blogspot.com/

So people framed their positive reviews of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot in terms of Yadda Yadda Yadda. If the album had not been as successful, these tropes about the album wouldn't be so bothersome. When an album becomes something that wins P&J, it begins to look like these tropes, whatever the hell they might be, are really code for someone telling you that it's Culturally Important.

There's a site called Pitchfork, see...

just went to metacritc...and of all the links to full text of YHF, ALL of them (except Trouser Press and Neumu) mentioned the Label Troubles story....if not 100%, I'd bet that at least 99% did...