Britpop songs better than the best Spice Girls song

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Received wisdom: The Spice Girls, glamour and girl power et al, were the key factor in the dismantling of Britpop circa late 96/early 97

Poppists say: yay
Indie rockists say: Boo hiss.

Exercise:

a) What's the best Spice Girls song?
b) Name the Britpop tracks, if any, you consider superior to it.

No, this isn't just Lexbait.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:31 (nineteen years ago)

Received wisdom: The Spice Girls, glamour and girl power et al, were the key factor in the dismantling of Britpop circa late 96/early 97

no it isn't!

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:34 (nineteen years ago)

the best SG song is 'spice up your life', which came out in late '97, ie after britpop had passed anyway.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:35 (nineteen years ago)

best Spice Girls songs are jointly 'viva forever' and '2 become 1'

there are quite clearly no britpop tracks superior to it

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:36 (nineteen years ago)

both are shit, britpop and spice girls. but you have your memories, and if you liked britpop back then your likely to hold it in higher esteem than the spice girls. lex wasn't into either at the time --> automatic disqualification.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:40 (nineteen years ago)

I think "Be Here Now" was the key factor in the implosion of ShitPop

― fandango (fandango), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:45 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not sure this is "Received wisdom" either Dom - I think what happened to Britpop is that the bands who were making the 'pop' bit got itchy feet about being big pop stars, and the huge success of Oasis tilted the sound permanently towards rock. I've sometimes said that the Spice Girls were a Britpop band but I dunno whether I actually believe that at all.

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:45 (nineteen years ago)

"Received wisdom" = "john harris went on and on and on about it till everyone believed him"?

My favourite spice girls numbers are "wannabe", "2 become 1" and "viva forever". I like a number of blur songs from "modern life is rubbish" and "parklife" better than these, especially "this is a low", which is as good as anything anyone's recorded ever, I think. Other than that, The spice girls win for me. Most britpop stuff I can barely remember these days, a poor showing for a genre supposedly all about "classic songwriting".

"No Limits" by 2 unlimited is better than any spice girls track, mind.

Actually thinking about it, do supergrass count? "Sun hits the sky" from their second album also beats the spice girls.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:46 (nineteen years ago)

Isn't it usually seen as a combination of the Spice Girls, cocaine, and Gareth Southgate that killed off Britpop? I suppose "Spice Girls songs better than Gareth Southgate" may have some legs as a thread, but I simplified. We can run electricity through Britpop's corpse in order to kill it again in this thread though!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:48 (nineteen years ago)

Isn't it usually seen as a combination of the Spice Girls, cocaine, and Gareth Southgate that killed off Britpop?

heroin more like.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:50 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but heroin fucks up the individual rather than the music.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:52 (nineteen years ago)

Best Spice Girls song is in fact "Say You'll Be There". Hmm. "Common People" might be a match for that. Close, though, but yeah, I'll give this one to the Spicers.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:53 (nineteen years ago)

who is gareth southgate?

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:54 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but heroin fucks up the individual rather than the music.
-- Dom Passantino (juror...), July 24th, 2006.

many fine songs have been written on cocaine. oasis's 'all around the world' is not one of them.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:54 (nineteen years ago)

"Sun hits the sky" suffers from being too obviously two songs bolted together. They did this a lot, this being the most obvious example.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:55 (nineteen years ago)

I think I've heard "Common People" far too much to decide if I actually like it or not, to be honest. It'd be like being objective about "Dancing Queen" or "YMCA" or "Hey Jude" or something.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:56 (nineteen years ago)

a.) "wannabe" or "spice up your life"
b.) none. fuck oasis, blur, suede, nme, and the melody maker.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:57 (nineteen years ago)

it's not just a matter of something dying but something changing and mutating, old reference points becoming worn out and new ones coming in. by 1997 britpop's core audience (music press readers) were sick of dadrock and third-gen britpop, and were ready to embrace the heady experimentalism of gomez.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:58 (nineteen years ago)

many fine songs have been written on cocaine. oasis's 'all around the world' is not one of them.

There's a bit in some men's magazine interview with Peter Stringfellow this month where he complains that back in 96 Blur and Oasis would turn up at his club, drink free champagne all night, and when it came for them to pay for their drinks, they'd nurse a single bottle of beer for the rest of the evening. My guess is that when Oasis were playing in front of crowds of 150 at the start of their career and writing half decent music they weren't coked off their tits, and only when they started did their "talent" take a significant nosedive.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:59 (nineteen years ago)

by 1997 britpop's core audience ~~(music press readers)~~Nick Southall were sick of dadrock and third-gen britpop, and were ready to embrace the heady experimentalism of gomez.

Fixed.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 08:59 (nineteen years ago)

? baffled as to how "sun hits the sky" is 2 songs bolted crudely together (unless you mean the instrumental bit @ the end)

"common people" has that thrilling headlong accelerating feel, great lyrics, generally intense/powerful performance, but I don't think the tune is all that.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:02 (nineteen years ago)

being objective about "Dancing Queen" or "YMCA" or "Hey Jude" or something.

Great, great and completely shit.

x-post (I actually prefer "Mis-shapes" but I'm in a minority.)

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:03 (nineteen years ago)

slow news day then...

― fandango (fandango), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:04 (nineteen years ago)

I think I prefer "Lipgloss" to be honest, I liked my Pulp a little more woman-hating than the "Different Class" era.

I'd also be surprised to hear "Sun Hits The Sky" ranked ahead of "Caught By The Fuzz".

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:04 (nineteen years ago)

Bzz. Best Supergrass single is actually "Moving" or "Richard III".

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:05 (nineteen years ago)

yes

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:06 (nineteen years ago)

My guess is that when Oasis were playing in front of crowds of 150 at the start of their career and writing half decent music they weren't coked off their tits, and only when they started did their "talent" take a significant nosedive.

the quality of oasis's music never nosedived, it was always dreadful. i don't think cocaine, or any drug, is necessarily bad for the music, though of course it can be.

the best britpop song is 'ladykillers' by lush. pulp had a few good songs as well, i think my favourite is 'sorted for es and wizz'. 'this is a low' by blur is nice. that's about it for britpop.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:07 (nineteen years ago)

supergrass never had a good song. fucking annoying cunts.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:07 (nineteen years ago)

Isn't what dismantled Britpop the same things which have scuppered every other movement i.e hubris, boredom, urge not to repeat oneself*, poorer imitators following in the slipstream, more interesting things happening elsewhere.

*Not including Shed Seven, Bluetones etc

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:07 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, Supergrass were never quite indie enough for you, Lex. They wrote big pop songs with choruses and everything.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:08 (nineteen years ago)

also the bluetones had quite a number of quite good singles

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:09 (nineteen years ago)

Bzz. Best Supergrass single is actually "Moving" or "Richard III".
-- edward o (edwardo...), July 24th, 2006.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes
-- Konal Doddz (stevem7...), July 24th, 2006.

'pumping on your stereo', people.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:09 (nineteen years ago)

"Richard III" perhaps, "Caught by the Fuzz" or "Moving", not for me.

supergrass never had a good song. fucking annoying cunts.

7/10

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:09 (nineteen years ago)

also the bluetones had quite a number of quite good singles

"Slight Return" is the great overlooked classic single of the mid 90s. FACT.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:11 (nineteen years ago)

we should take this to the Annie thread really.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:11 (nineteen years ago)

"Slight Return" almost made the second wave of Britpop worthwhile. No, wait, it totally did.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:12 (nineteen years ago)

~~It's a shame we don't have C*l*m here right about now.~~

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:12 (nineteen years ago)

we should take this to the Annie thread really.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:13 (nineteen years ago)

'slight return' was...ok? not terrible? it's alright but there is nothing GREAT about it. there was only one genuinely GREAT britpop song ever, as i have said, 'ladykillers'.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:14 (nineteen years ago)

"Slight Return" is the great overlooked classic single of the mid 90s. FACT.

-- Dom Passantino (juror...), July 24th, 2006.

what the fuck? who overlooked this song?

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:14 (nineteen years ago)

"Ladykillers" was too gauzy to be Britpop, Lex.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:14 (nineteen years ago)

When do you hear it talked about/played these days En? The Bluetones are basically a Northern Uproar/Powder style punchline these days, even though they were a lot better than that. The fatsuit song was shit though.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:15 (nineteen years ago)

"Slight Return" is the great overlooked classic single of the mid 90s. FACT.

-- Domum r0bert w4d3ll (juror8@g

Oi you.

(x-post edward o BASTARD faster typer)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:15 (nineteen years ago)

I have actually owned a copy of "Ladykillers" but cannot remember a single thing about it.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:17 (nineteen years ago)

'Single Girl' and '500 (Shake Baby Shake)' were as good as 'Ladykillers' if not better. Lush should've stuck to their earlier sound tho man (altho not if they wanted to sell more records).

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:18 (nineteen years ago)

I don't wanna get all Geir on youse, but "500" is the only one that sounds like Britpop. "Single GIrl" and "Ladykillers" have sort of shoegaze roots, even if a bit of a departure from the earlier stuff.

I heart "500".

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:19 (nineteen years ago)

I watched the 'Live Forever' film again on BBC Four the other day and cringed all over again.

Wener comes across better than I remembered, tho not as much as Cocker obv.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:20 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I liked sub-cocteaus lush much better than sub-britpop lush. (x-post)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:20 (nineteen years ago)

i dunno, maybe not on the fashionable stylus website but no more or less than other hit songs of feb '96 (actually that was a rerelease i think).

xpost

haha 'single girl' is not showgaze.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:20 (nineteen years ago)

Ed I think it's a bit pointless decreeing which mid 90s Lush songs are and aren't Britpop. they all share the same basic hallmarks and it's not as if Britpop was a real genre anyway.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:21 (nineteen years ago)

Point taken. But "Single Girl" and "Ladykillers" sound like the same band as the one that made "Desire Lines". "500", to me, doesn't.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:22 (nineteen years ago)

elastica's 'connection' is better than any spice girls song.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:23 (nineteen years ago)

14 BT featuring Vincent Covello Loving You More (remix) Feb 1996
25 Bobby Brown Every Little Step (remix) Feb 1996
22 QFX Everytime You Touch Me Feb 1996
17 Northern Uproar From A Window / This Morning Feb 1996
35 Solo Heaven Feb 1996
6 Technohead I Wanna Be A Hippy Feb 1996
24 Lisa Moorish Mr Friday Night Feb 1996
9 Dog Eat Dog No Fronts Feb 1996
33 Elton John Please Feb 1996
30 Brandy Sittin' Up In My Room Feb 1996
2 Bluetones Slight Return Feb 1996
34 Dave Clarke Southside Feb 1996
5 Radiohead Street Spirit (Fade Out) Feb 1996
20 E-Motion The Naughty North And The Sexy South Feb 1996
29 Marion Time Feb 1996
8 M People How Can I Love You More (remix) Feb 1996
27 Donna Giles And I'm Telling You I'm Not Going Feb 1996
7 East 17 Do U Still Feb 1996
40 Q-Tee Gimme That Body Feb 1996
31 Shamen Heal (The Separation) Feb 1996
35 Alice In Chains Heaven Beside You Feb 1996
5 Etta James I Just Want To Make Love To You Feb 1996
4 Lighthouse Family Lifted Feb 1996
6 Joan Osborne One Of Us Feb 1996
37 Gemini Steal Your Love Away Feb 1996
39 Gin Blossoms Til I Hear It From You Feb 1996
28 Inner City Your Love Feb 1996
16 Smashing Pumpkins 1979 Feb 1996
40 Michael Ball (Something Inside) So Strong Feb 1996
11 Red Hot Chili Peppers Aeroplane Feb 1996
27 Mike & The Mechanics All I Need Is A Miracle Feb 1996
18 Scooter Back In The UK Feb 1996
37 Longpigs Far Feb 1996
12 Alcatraz Giv Me Luv Feb 1996
3 Luniz I Got 5 On It Feb 1996
14 Diana Ross I Will Survive Feb 1996
23 Cypress Hill Illusions Feb 1996
39 Love Decade Is This A Dream Feb 1996
35 Speech Like Marvin Gaye Said (What's Going On) Feb 1996
33 Monica Like This And Like That Feb 1996
4 Mariah Carey Open Arms Feb 1996
29 Cardigans Rise And Shine Feb 1996
13 John Alford Smoke Gets In Your Eyes Feb 1996
15 Ocean Colour Scene The Riverboat Song Feb 1996
2 Robert Miles Children Feb 1996
12 Whitney Houston & Ce Ce Winans Count On Me Feb 1996 Notes
11 N-Trance Electronic Pleasure Feb 1996
5 Gabrielle Give Me A Little More Time Feb 1996
27 Clock Holding On 4 U Feb 1996
8 Bjork Hyperballad Feb 1996

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:23 (nineteen years ago)

hurrah the one britpop song i love turns out not to be britpop at all, i win!

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:23 (nineteen years ago)

I think it's quite clear the best song from February 1996 was "No Fronts". "No fronts, no tricks, no soapbox politics..."

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:24 (nineteen years ago)

Lex in not liking popular music NON SHOCKA.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:25 (nineteen years ago)

The Spice Girls weren't actually that good though. I think what I find offputting about them is the same naff forced permagrin that puts Lex off S Club. I'll allow them Say You'll Be There and Who Do You Think You Are but the rest just annoys me.

Britpop songs I like more than Who Do You Think You Are - most of the big Pulp and Elastica singles, Caught By The Fuzz, Girls And Boys and, erm, that's it really.

The Spice Girls are pretty much irrelevant to the decline of Britpop. What really killed it was OK Computer and Bittersweet Symphony and (arguably) A Design For Life as well. Suddenly it stopped being about storming the charts and more about Big Serious Rock Music. Ironically you can pretty much draw an increasingly soppy line from there through to Travis, Coldplay and Keane thus bececoming bigger than almost all of Britpop.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:25 (nineteen years ago)

34 Dave Clarke Southside Feb 1996

this is what i was listening to!

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:26 (nineteen years ago)

3 Luniz I Got 5 On It Feb 1996

i prefer this, to bluetones.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:27 (nineteen years ago)

23 Cypress Hill Illusions Feb 1996

This too.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:27 (nineteen years ago)

14 BT featuring Vincent Covello Loving You More (remix) Feb 1996
22 QFX Everytime You Touch Me Feb 1996
6 Technohead I Wanna Be A Hippy Feb 1996
30 Brandy Sittin' Up In My Room Feb 1996
34 Dave Clarke Southside Feb 1996
20 E-Motion The Naughty North And The Sexy South Feb 1996
27 Donna Giles And I'm Telling You I'm Not Going Feb 1996
28 Inner City Your Love Feb 1996
18 Scooter Back In The UK Feb 1996
12 Alcatraz Giv Me Luv Feb 1996
3 Luniz I Got 5 On It Feb 1996
33 Monica Like This And Like That Feb 1996
2 Robert Miles Children Feb 1996
5 Gabrielle Give Me A Little More Time Feb 1996
8 Bjork Hyperballad Feb 1996

all great!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:27 (nineteen years ago)

Ultramix96 looking hot!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:28 (nineteen years ago)

fuck a robert miles man.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:28 (nineteen years ago)

"Pumping On your Stereo" and "Song Woo-oo" are better than "Spice Up Your Life"

But that's about it.

yank.
|
v

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:29 (nineteen years ago)

'Children' is the 'Vernon's Wonderland' it was okay for the charts to like.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:29 (nineteen years ago)

best song from feb 96 = luniz with bjork and gabrielle not far behind

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:29 (nineteen years ago)

robert miles also great

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:29 (nineteen years ago)

my actual fave track from that period was the Alcatraz one. it's funny now to think Dave Clarke was getting in the charts at that point also.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:31 (nineteen years ago)

CHARTS IN '96 MORE LIBERAL AND DIVERSE THAN '06 SHOCKAH?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:32 (nineteen years ago)

'Three Girl Rhumba' is as good as any spice girls song.

-- Roughage Crew

fixed

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:34 (nineteen years ago)

THE QUESTION WAS ASKED:

10 A-Ha Analogue (all I Want) Feb 2006
15 Pharrell Williams Angel Feb 2006
16 Young Jeezy featuring Akon Soul Survivor Feb 2006
24 Starsailor This Time Feb 2006
27 Protocol Where's The Pleasure Feb 2006
30 LMC featuring Rachel McFarlane You Get What You Give Feb 2006
24 Fall Out Boy Sugar We're Goin Down Feb 2006
40 Ferry Corsten Fire Feb 2006
2 Chris Brown featuring Juelz Santana Run It Feb 2006
5 Dead Or Alive You Spin Me Round (re-issue) Feb 2006
12 Ashlee Simpson Boyfriend Feb 2006
13 50 Cent Hustler's Ambition Feb 2006
15 Lee Ryan When I Think Of You Feb 2006
16 Jesse McCartney Beautiful Soul Feb 2006
19 Bon Jovi Welcome To Wherever You Are Feb 2006
26 Go Team Ladyflash Feb 2006
38 Mogwai Friend Of The Night Feb 2006
1 Meck featuring Leo Sayer Thunder In My Heart Again Feb 2006 Notes
7 Source featuring Candi Staton You Got The Love (2nd remix) Feb 2006
8 Fall Out Boy Sugar We're Goin Down (re-issue) Feb 2006 Notes
18 Kubb Grow Feb 2006
19 Antony Costa Do You Ever Think Of Me? Feb 2006
24 Alarm MMVI Superchannel Feb 2006
29 Bullet For My Valentine All These Things I Hate Feb 2006
33 Three 6 Mafia Stay Fly Feb 2006
39 El Presidente Turn This Thing Around Feb 2006
5 Liz McClarnon Woman In Love / I Get The Sweetest Feeling Feb 2006
13 Friday Hill One More Night Alone Feb 2006
15 Goldfrapp Ride A White Horse Feb 2006
20 Magic Numbers I See You You See Me Feb 2006
26 Boy Kill Boy Back Again Feb 2006
25 Kaiser Chiefs I Predict A Riot / Sink That Ship (re-entry) Feb 2006
31 James Blunt You're Beautiful (re-entry) Feb 2006
32 Rhymefest featuring Kanye West Brand New Feb 2006
28 Kanye West featuring Jamie Foxx Gold Digger (re-entry) Feb 2006
37 Pretty Ricky Your Body Feb 2006
40 Nickelback Far Away Feb 2006

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:35 (nineteen years ago)

the girls were prettier and the jokes were funnier and and and

xpost

what's 'three girl rhumba'?

― Lexhage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:35 (nineteen years ago)

i do like 'Connection' tho

i also like 'Trash' by The Suedes

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:35 (nineteen years ago)

Good songs in Feb 06:

Three 6 Mafia
Kanye
El Presidente
Fall Out Boy
Meck
The Source

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:36 (nineteen years ago)

Suede's best single is "Beautiful Ones", which is probably the best non-twee indie single ever.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:36 (nineteen years ago)

I'm struggling to find anything I really like on Dom's 1st list, a number of them are excruciating to me. A couple of the numbers on the second list I like (the DoA best of all, har har I am old etc)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:36 (nineteen years ago)

i wuv the Rhymefest and 'Frapp

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:37 (nineteen years ago)

40 Q-Tee Gimme That Body Feb 1996

this was the rapper on st etienne's 'dirty'? signed to heavenly. you couldn't buy it anywhere. can't remember it now.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:37 (nineteen years ago)

"Analogue (All I Want)" is very underrated.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:38 (nineteen years ago)

Fall Out Boy

Dom if you're still coming to Poptimism prepare to be HARANGUED

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:38 (nineteen years ago)

Actually that "thunder in my heart" thing is 10 x worse than anything on the '96 list, which signifies nothing, I know.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:38 (nineteen years ago)

"Analogue (All I Want)" is very underrated.

fifth worst A-Ha single ever.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:38 (nineteen years ago)

Poptimists morelike Emomists ami etcetc

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:38 (nineteen years ago)

Actually that "thunder in my heart" thing is 10 x worse than anything on the '96 list, which signifies nothing, I know.

Get out.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:39 (nineteen years ago)

It's terrible!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:39 (nineteen years ago)

I mean, turn the radio off when it's on terrible.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:40 (nineteen years ago)

You didn't like "The Avenue" either!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:40 (nineteen years ago)

Thunder In My Heart and Fall out Boy are GRATE. NO ARGUMENTS.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:40 (nineteen years ago)

"the avenue" was at least roffleworthy in its ineptitude.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:41 (nineteen years ago)

Leo Sayer > Grime

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:41 (nineteen years ago)

we could compare the charts from Feb '91, Feb '97 and Feb '06. 'YOU GOT THE COCKING LOVE' would be in all of them.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:42 (nineteen years ago)

Thunder In My Heart and Fall out Boy GRATE. NO ARGUMENTS.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:43 (nineteen years ago)

best song of feb 06 = ashlee simpson and three 6 mafia and chris brown TIE (plus there're some good goldfrapp remixes too)

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:43 (nineteen years ago)

fall out boy are disgustingly shit, please defend your statements

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:44 (nineteen years ago)

THAT SONG THE BLUESTONES DID

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:44 (nineteen years ago)

I like all these, predictably Etta James and QFX pwn the rest of them.

22 QFX Everytime You Touch Me Feb 1996
2 Bluetones Slight Return Feb 1996
34 Dave Clarke Southside Feb 1996
5 Radiohead Street Spirit (Fade Out) Feb 1996
5 Etta James I Just Want To Make Love To You Feb 1996
4 Lighthouse Family Lifted Feb 1996
28 Inner City Your Love Feb 1996
29 Cardigans Rise And Shine Feb 1996
8 Bjork Hyperballad Feb 1996

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:45 (nineteen years ago)

leo sayer > grime is like saying jamming your finger in the door > a nasty papercut.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:45 (nineteen years ago)

1. When I search for "dance dance fall" in Windows Media Player, it also comes up with "Star To Fall" by Cabin Crew
2. "Dance Dance" is probably the best "dance like a moody 15 year old" song since, I dunno, "Hotel Yorba"?
3. It's finally convinced me emo may have something going for it.
4. It's basically an updated radio pop song with added self-mutilation scars, it's like The Cars or something.
5. "Whyyyy don't you show meeeeeee"... high school moping = good. New Nada Surf!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:46 (nineteen years ago)

Plus Lex, if one of yr R&B divaz used the line "I only want sympathy in the shape of you crawling into bed with me" you'd be all "OMG OMG GENIUZ!!one"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:47 (nineteen years ago)

I have no idea what any of you are talking about any more.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:48 (nineteen years ago)

Plus Lex, if one of yr R&B divaz used the line "I only want sympathy in the shape of you crawling into bed with me" you'd be all "OMG OMG GENIUZ!!one"

but presumably she would be singing the line properly over a decent beat, as opposed to honking it in that awful, unbearably emo whine over nasty guitars. PRESENTATION MATTERS

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:53 (nineteen years ago)

IT'S NOT FEBRUARY 1996 ANYMORE! CONTENT > STYLE

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:54 (nineteen years ago)

i have never heard an emo record.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:58 (nineteen years ago)

CONTENT > STYLE

rockist!

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 09:59 (nineteen years ago)

That's a goal for Lex there.

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:01 (nineteen years ago)

Fall Out Boy's problem is their lack of Content(ment). WHINY WHINE WHINE.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:01 (nineteen years ago)

Fall Out Boy are alright, but they're no Panic! At the Disco. Dom, what did you think of that remix?

WHINY WHINE WHINE == GOOD.

― stop moving. (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:03 (nineteen years ago)

I liked it a lot. There's a really weird "Sugar, We're Going Down" remix at the end of the FOB album as well done by the guitarist (I think), where they kind of turn it into a slightly more bitter Sugar Ray track. Very odd.

Gym Class Heroes are horrid, btw.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:06 (nineteen years ago)

Blimey, this thread's been busy.

Anyway,

"Sun hits the sky"
song 1) "I know a place where..."
song 2) = Drastic chord change and "I am a doctor"

Moving is like this as well, but the "I got a low low feeling inside me" at least has a sympathetic chord change.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:11 (nineteen years ago)

The best Spice Girls song is 2 Become 1, closely followed by Who Do You Think You Are?.
If the key Britpop albums are Different Class, Definitely Maybe, and Parklife I'd say the Spice Girls beat the first two, but there's lots of stuff on Parklife that beats them (especially Badhead, End of a Century, Tracy Jacks, To The End).

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:16 (nineteen years ago)

Gym Class Heroes is a really unpleasant name - even if you enjoy emo band names, somehow that one's just... too much, too well-appointed.

I'm kind of reeling from the revelation that 'No Fronts' was 1996, I thought it was so much earlier - in my head, it's divided up into individual segments of time, so baggy-shorts Dog Eat Dog rock ends before Britpop, which surely can't have been existed at the same time as the Spice Girls, and so on. I really liked 'Wannabe' at the time, and generally kind of approved all the way through their career (especially when they were interviewed in the nme and people got pissed off), but I just looked at a list of their singles and none of them really grab me? Whereas Britpop songs have loads of nostalgia tied up in them, they're a lot more personal, so personal that I've stopped thinking any of them can be all that good in and of themselves.

i think I actually like post-britpop better than britpop? all that tail-end generic evening session shit - Rialto's "Monday Morning 5:19", that's better than the best Spice Girls song.

― stop moving. (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:29 (nineteen years ago)

THROWDOWN

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:31 (nineteen years ago)

>>> I'm kind of reeling from the revelation that 'No Fronts' was 1996, I thought it was so much earlier

This must have been a reissue, I'm also almost positive it was much earlier, unless I have invented memories of it being played in indie clubs in '94/5.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:34 (nineteen years ago)

Wikipedia says it was a remix that hit the charts in 1996, the original version having come out and failed to do anything in 1994. I find it really weird that Dog Eat Dog's debut album preceeds KoRn's debut album, to be honest, considering that DED sound like a more buttrock KoRn.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

'No Fronts' originally from 93/94.

UK often slow on the uptake with this sort of thing.

RHCP's 'Give It Away' and 'Under The Bridge' also charted highly in '94 after being re-released two years later.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:37 (nineteen years ago)

I thought of Dog Eat Dog as more the precursor to Limp Bizkit than Korn. That is to say, when 'Nooky' came out I thought 'oh great it's Dog Eat Dog upgrade'.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:37 (nineteen years ago)

after being re-released 2 years later

― stop moving. (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:38 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but Limp Bizkit were always a kind of KoRn minus issues plus boobies, so you can see the lineage there. It's like what KoRn added to the Dog Eat Dog template was what LB removed from the KoRn template.

KoRn released an album alst year, you know? It charted at #71. lol rock music.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:39 (nineteen years ago)

cis, as in 'came out in '92 but did better on re-release two years later for some reason'

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:40 (nineteen years ago)

xpost those RHCP tracks were hella old when they charted in the UK

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:40 (nineteen years ago)

yes, TWO YEARS OLD

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:41 (nineteen years ago)

Think how strange and weird a place 2004 seems now!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:41 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.virginmusic.de/de_images/artists/3252382.jpg

"Babycakes, you just don't know know..."

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:42 (nineteen years ago)

the front guy went on to release an album under the guise of Burial.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:44 (nineteen years ago)

the other two present WACKADON'TRYIT weekdays on CITV.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:44 (nineteen years ago)

2004... when rachel stevens ruled the charts.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:44 (nineteen years ago)

'babycakes' was a 'give it away now' type delayed hit from 1999 innit.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

sure sounded like it

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:46 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, right, sorry Doddz, v slow today. That would make more sense, fit with the approximate timeline of stuff in my head, and that.

delayed hits are clearly the best! No Fronts, Babycakes, Renegade Master...

(haha oh man I was totally chanelling gravel puzzleworth on the rialto > spice girls tip.)

― stop moving. (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:48 (nineteen years ago)

Apart from the ones already mentioned that I agree with (Connection, Common People, Single Girl, Ladykillers, Parklife)...

Pulp - Do You Remember The First Time?
Sleeper - Inbetweener
SFA - God! Show Me Magic
Tiger - On The Rose
Bennett - Mum's Gone To Iceland

...are all better than Wannabe.

(xpost sorry to get back to the subject)

― ewmy (ewmy), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:48 (nineteen years ago)

The only good Spice Girls song was 'Wannabe'. Most of the classic britpop singles were better, than the other SG singles, 'Wannabe' perhaps the same level with the best britpop tracks from that era (Blur especially).

― zeus (zeus), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:56 (nineteen years ago)

speaking of 2004, i heard 'these words' yesterday, it was a pleasant surprise.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:57 (nineteen years ago)

I had totally forgotten Babycakes ever existed.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:58 (nineteen years ago)

'baby cakes' is amazing.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 10:59 (nineteen years ago)

Good songs from '96 February, which I remember:

6 Technohead I Wanna Be A Hippy Feb 1996
9 Dog Eat Dog No Fronts Feb 1996
16 Smashing Pumpkins 1979 Feb 1996
29 Cardigans Rise And Shine Feb 1996

― zeus (zeus), Monday, 24 July 2006 11:00 (nineteen years ago)

so... ten years from now can we admit that Girls Aloud were often a bit shit then?

― fandango (fandango), Monday, 24 July 2006 11:00 (nineteen years ago)

2006:

5 Dead Or Alive You Spin Me Round (re-issue) Feb 2006
26 Go Team Ladyflash Feb 2006
39 El Presidente Turn This Thing Around Feb 2006
15 Goldfrapp Ride A White Horse Feb 2006

― zeus (zeus), Monday, 24 July 2006 11:03 (nineteen years ago)

when people say 'i only remember x, y and z' i just think 'crap memory you then' rather than 'oh that must mean everything else was shit'. but then i remember so many rubbish songs from ten years ago as well as the brilliant ones.

this Spice Girls 'backlash' is v strange to me. 'Wannabe' is surely a pop monolith towering over the tenements of 1996's numerous indie chancers and their own efforts.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 11:52 (nineteen years ago)

i never drank the 'wannabe' kool aid.

so... ten years from now can we admit that Girls Aloud were often a bit shit then?
-- fandango (...), July 24th, 2006.

balls, sir. balls!

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

'crap memory you then'
= no soulseek then

― zeus (zeus), Monday, 24 July 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

6 Technohead I Wanna Be A Hippy Feb 1996

thom (s) has fucked up my memory on this one.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

i never drank the 'wannabe' kool aid.

i HATED it at the time so it's odd that even among people who are generally pro that kind of music consensus may never have been reached on it's level of greatness. obv. have to be careful and not resort to 'if you hate Wannabe you hate pop' type remarks tho.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:09 (nineteen years ago)

who would do such a thing?

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:13 (nineteen years ago)

i hated it in '96. i could see the arguments for it -- steven 'protolex' wells talked it up in the nme, and probably simon price/taylor parkes did in the maker, but it's just horrible.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:15 (nineteen years ago)

ha ha ha

I loved "Wannabe" at the time, a great piece of cheese, I though, & still think.

There is a whole lot of stuff I can't remember! Some of it I even liked at the time. I mean, most of the stuff on Dom's 1st list upthread, I look at the titles, and about 5 of them I can actually remember whet the rekkids sounded like. If I heard one of them again, that would probably be different, I'd remember it then.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:17 (nineteen years ago)

but what is 'i can only remember a few' prove? i mean why is it worth mentioning? (not singling anyone out here as several people do this)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:19 (nineteen years ago)

I loved it! We briefly had cable just when it was released, and I used to catch the video on the box fairly often, and probably had a fight or two with my brother about it (i think at the time we were enacting the blur/oasis battle on a domestic level), so when it got to number one I felt almost personally proud. When you see the video again, it's amaing how ugly it is - intentionally so, it wants to be brash and an eyesore.

― stop moving. (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:19 (nineteen years ago)

my 12-year-old sister liked it lots.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:20 (nineteen years ago)

When you see the video again, it's amaing how ugly it is - intentionally so, it wants to be brash and an eyesore.

there's that bit with the hideous old woman all dolled up. and i don't mean Geri.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:21 (nineteen years ago)

I liked Wannabe in '96, though I didn't confess it even to myself.

― zeus (zeus), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:23 (nineteen years ago)

Like, I really think 'glamour' is the least apposite word Dom could have chosen in starting this thread - the Spice Girls image, especially round the first album, was kind of in-yer-face vulgar.

xpost I was about twelve at the time as well!

― stop moving. (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:24 (nineteen years ago)

little sisters, doin it for themselves, etc.

― brakhage crew (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:24 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I remember the hype of several britpoppers @ the time (specifically oasis, embrace, rialto, cast/lee mavers) being all about how their songs were classic, timeless, awesome, up there w/th* b**tl*s and so on. I don't particularly like th* b**tl*s, but I can remember a whole slew of their tunes. I can remember a whole load of tunes that I didn't/don't even particularly like over the years, but most of britpop is a memory blackhole to me, even though I even owned & enjoyed a few of the records. I find it a/strange and b/ comical as in i)"we're the best songwriters that ever lived, la" vs ii) "what exactly did your song go like again?"

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:25 (nineteen years ago)

dom's initial post was completely wrongheaded.

for one thing the audiences for the spice girls and for, god i dunno, cast, had what you might call a minimal overlap. people didn't go 'oh, sod this britpop, let's all listen to the spice girls'.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:26 (nineteen years ago)

fair enough pash but if ott braggadoccio (sp) is ok for jay-z, why not for ------ rialto?

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:28 (nineteen years ago)

for one thing the audiences for the spice girls and for, god i dunno, cast, had what you might call a minimal overlap. people didn't go 'oh, sod this britpop, let's all listen to the spice girls'.

Funny, because that's exactly what happened to me.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:29 (nineteen years ago)

There was an overlap, Enrique, it was called teenage girls and large numbers of singles buyers.

― stop moving. (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

bah, xpost.

― stop moving. (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:33 (nineteen years ago)

4 reals?

speaking for me, early 96 indie was i guess TS ocean colour scene vs bis, which was a pretty shoddy choice but there we are. so when the spice girls showed up and protolex started hyping them i read the situation in the same way: surely it must be possible to not like cast, and not like bis, and not like the spice girls.

i *did* like kenickie though.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:35 (nineteen years ago)

(clarification: I bought "Finetime" by Cast. I really did.)

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:43 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know, steve. It's a personal thing, I suppose. I don't really give enough of a shit about jay z to get bothered by it, otoh, the early britpop thing (select "crimplenists" issue etc) seemed exciting and going-somewhere at the time, and to see it a) turn into dull, dewrivative, plodding meat&2veg pubrock and b) get ridiculously hyped, as in noel gallagher/lee mavers is a songwriting genius, is america ready to get pwned by these bands etc was kind of galling at the time. I don't really care enough about it now to get too bothered, but I still think it's a shame that ppl in the mmedja didn't call out shit on stuff that even at the time was shit.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:44 (nineteen years ago)

'finetime' was their best song.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:45 (nineteen years ago)

The ones I still like today.

2 Bluetones Slight Return Feb 1996
34 Dave Clarke Southside Feb 1996
5 Radiohead Street Spirit (Fade Out) Feb 1996
4 Lighthouse Family Lifted Feb 1996
39 Gin Blossoms Til I Hear It From You Feb 1996
16 Smashing Pumpkins 1979 Feb 1996
11 Red Hot Chili Peppers Aeroplane Feb 1996
12 Alcatraz Giv Me Luv Feb 1996
3 Luniz I Got 5 On It Feb 1996
23 Cypress Hill Illusions Feb 1996
35 Speech Like Marvin Gaye Said (What's Going On) Feb 1996
33 Monica Like This And Like That Feb 1996
8 Bjork Hyperballad Feb 1996
29 Cardigans Rise And Shine Feb 1996
30 Brandy Sittin' Up In My Room Feb 1996

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:48 (nineteen years ago)

Were Cast some kind of mass delusion? The way we (whoever 'we' were) bought into the Cast line so completely seems kind of amazing, looking back - there really was nothing there but blustering! No tunes, no charm, no substance. But we were riding on this self-congratulatory high that made anything that seemed to have some kind of heritage, some kind of pedigree behind it become good - even when it's "john power was in a band, once, with An Actual Real Mad Person in it, they had one song that was quite popular and evocative-sounding". Or maybe this was just me, I"m not sure.

(I had the cast album on a c90, with the supergrass album on the other side. I didn't buy records very much.)

― stop moving. (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:52 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, and Northern Uproar and Powder aren't the biggest butt of the joke from that era. Menswe@r, anyone? The un-art-rock Franz Ferdinand of their day? Bloc Party's manager former band?

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:52 (nineteen years ago)

Menswe@ar! But "Daydreamer" and "I'll Manage Somehow" are both really great.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:55 (nineteen years ago)

they weren't *that* big, and as i said there were anti-cast voices (the parkes-price axis, select magazine, sometimes); but yeah: classic songwriting, chiming guitars, return to the '60s golden age were the big things about summer 1996, 'climaxing' with knebworth.

i'm going to say that beck killed britpop, rather than the spice girls.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

Calling them Menswe@ar makes them sound South African.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

But if you want to call Britpop's heyday as being, say, late 1994 to early 1997, Beck only had two charting singles during that period: "Where It's At" (#35) and "Devil's Haircut" (#22)

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:00 (nineteen years ago)

that's as maybe, but the case stands.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

The thing about Menswe@r is that they were the butt of the joke at the time! It felt like there was a lot more scorn directed at Menswe@r than at any other group - from my 12-y-o view this seemed to be cos Johnny Dean was cute and ugly people are more credible? - so bringing them up in a "ooh, menswear, remember them" kind of way is a bit redundant as from the beginning they were presented as a The Quasi-Boyband That Is Ruining Britpop, their existence was a comment on britpop's nature, Menswe@r only happened so that people could go "ooh, remember Menswe@r?"

― stop moving. (cis), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:09 (nineteen years ago)

THE NEW POLLUTION KILLED BRITPOP WITH ITS MASSIVE #14 PLACINGS.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:10 (nineteen years ago)

beck took down britpop form the inside.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

The ten percent of his yearly income that goes towards curing the gays stripped Britpop of its andrognyic powers?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

Menswe@r, anyone? The un-art-rock Franz Ferdinand of their day? Bloc Party's manager former band?

The most brilliant band ever. Well, one of them.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:18 (nineteen years ago)

beck created the context of reception for the mild experimentation of uk indie c. 96-9.

otoh belle and sebastian also killed britpop.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:21 (nineteen years ago)

That strikes me as a bit frying pan/fire.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

beck created the context of reception for the mild experimentation of uk indie c. 96-9

which was then undertaken by.....who?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:28 (nineteen years ago)

BENTLEY RHYTHM ACE

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, Beck killed Britpop and paved the way for the glorious triumph of such rock colossi as Scott 4 and Delakota.

A more plausible answer might actually be Robbie Williams, clearly the elephant in the room here, but I'm still going with The Verve.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:30 (nineteen years ago)

I am just an ignorant American, and I like the Spice Girls just fine, but I would like to vote for "Wake Up Boo" and "Disco 2000" as two answers to the title question.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:30 (nineteen years ago)

"DE-BOR-AH!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

i really really really really really hate 'wake up boo'

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:34 (nineteen years ago)

Though I'm a massive Boos fan that one doesn't resonate with me as much -- not because it was 'the hit' (please), it just seemed sorta there. ("Barney (...and Me)," now that's a brilliant single, but it was from the previous album, so.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

it's all about 'Lazarus' re the B-Radleys

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

I think NME posited the notion that the death of Diana was also the official death of Britpop. It's a notion I retained some sympathy for although it was a bit hard to rationalise beyond 'Candle In The Wind' knocking 'The Drugs Don't Work' off the top spot.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:39 (nineteen years ago)

Neither "Barney" nor "Lazarus" has really ever grabbed me very much as singles, I only know them in their album contexts. Actually maybe "It's Lulu" is better as a pure pop single, including references to vomit and the image of good teenage girls wanting to go on a rampage.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:42 (nineteen years ago)

matt dc otm, i suppose, but beck made 97-verve possible, in a way.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

Actually maybe "It's Lulu" is better as a pure pop single, including references to vomit and the image of good teenage girls wanting to go on a rampage.

Now there is that. Plus, that's one loud chorus.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

never quite got the boo radleys. i suppose 'c'mon kids' was *meant* to be the album that killed britpop.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

Robbie Williams seems to be a strong contender for the britpop poison pill. There's something kind of steamroller-like about the way he came along and took over oasis' schtick (shameless knockoffs of older yob-terrace-chorus hits) but did it "properly", somehow.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

matt dc otm, i suppose, but beck made 97-verve possible, in a way.

Not really seeing a direct connection. Noel G, Power and others bigged up Ashcroft so much that by the time they hooked up with 'Youth' for BSS their profile was already considerably higher on word-of-mouth/recommendation basis. This wouldn't have meant shit on it's own if the Stones sample and Walter Stern-directed video hadn't grabbed people so instantly tho.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 24 July 2006 14:26 (nineteen years ago)

there's two things, i suppose, mass market popularity and then music press popularity, and 'bss' had both, and i'm interested more in the latter.

(it's a confusing case cos the strings in that song are not actually sampled, i'm convinced.)

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

I'm starting to see the Beck connection now, mostly because I remember an interview with 1997-era Damon Albarn going "yeah, Beck's amazing, he really turned me onto what the Americans were doing" and then next up it's all Beetlebum and Song 2 and Pavement references pretending to hate Country House. Although I contend they were just incredibly embarassed by Space and wanted to distance themselves from it as much as possible.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 24 July 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

Somebody way upthread said something slightly disparaging about John Harris (I forget what, and I'm too lazy to check), but The Last Party is essential reading for this thread. I can't remember his conclusions exactly (and again, I'm too lazy to check) (although I seem to remember it was something like 'They were all on smack'), but I'm pretty sure he never suggested that The Spice Girls killed Britpop. From what I remember of the book 'Britpop' = distinctively English indie guitar pop circa 93-95 as a reaction against distinctively American grunge of 91-93, which was initially Suede, then Blur, then Oasis, then Pulp. I can't really see how The Spice Girls killed any of them off. Suede peaked too soon and went alarmingly epic just when pop was what was called for. Blur were just about to unleash a completely new sound when Wannabe came out, but this was a reaction to what they/Britpop had become by late 1995. Pulp couldn't handle the fame and got depressed. Oasis snorted themselves into tedious mediocrity while disappearing up their own arsehole in a horrible mixed metaphor.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Monday, 24 July 2006 14:41 (nineteen years ago)

otm

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

I actually have that harris book, and really enjoyed reading it! I'm sure there is some reference to the spice girls killing britpop in it (I'll have to check) and I'm sure I've read him on about it more than once elsewhere as well, though I could be wrong!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 24 July 2006 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

Why look for out-there theories, when it was all just about the old industry practice of milking a cow's tits until it all gets spoiled? It's simple, really: Suede opened the doors with their debut album, Blur's "Parklife" and Oasis's "Definitely Maybe" kicked them wide open, and the rest is the same old history of signing "similar" bands left and right with no criteria whatsoever and shoving it down people's throat's until they get tired and someone somewhere starts selling them something slightly different and off they (the people) go and embrace it.
Repeat ad infinitum.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Monday, 24 July 2006 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

viva forever was my favourite spice girls songs. i have an affinity to britpop and there's several classic britpop songs (disco 2000, trash, parklife, live forever etc), but then i was 11-15 during the end of britpop so no doubt my opinions are influenced by strong feelings of nostalgia.

― Alexei (alexei), Monday, 24 July 2006 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

they weren't *that* big

All Change went double platinum, but I doubt if I'd be able to recognize any of them now (or then). That may be a part in Britpop's downfall too.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 24 July 2006 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

a) What's the best Spice Girls song?

"Viva Forever".

b) Name the Britpop tracks, if any, you consider superior to it.

Most.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 24 July 2006 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

Harris' theory was either that laddism killed Britpop, New Labour killed Britpop, or Britpop selling out killed Britpop. Mainly the last one.

― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 24 July 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

I too enjoyed the Harris book but it read a little like asking Jello Biafra to write a history of SoCal punk--it'll be really richly detailed but dude is too emotionally connected to the subject matter to have any sort of accurate objective opinion about it. Not that I have any idea about Harris' connection with Britpop, but certainly his conclusions seemed to have more foundation in his personal feelings of disgust than any actual facts.

― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 24 July 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

Jello Biafra to write a history of SoCal punk

Uhh...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 July 2006 19:19 (nineteen years ago)

I didn't have any problem with Harris's description of Britpop, in fact I thought it was a great book in that respect, I just thought he overplayed the Blair/New Labour angle a bit.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Monday, 24 July 2006 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

Britpop appeared to follow a fairly classic populist-scene trajectory, nothing in particular "killed it off", bar the usual music industry shenanigans (milking a dried up teat indeed) and musicians inability to consistently deliver commercially over anything beyond a 5 yr period (in general).

― gekoppel (Gekoppel), Monday, 24 July 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

But if we really want to go all brainy/out-there here, I think the first sign of the Britpop decline came from the spiritual fathers themselves: The Stone Roses. Or rather what was left of them, at Reading '96. Remember, they were the closing act on the last day at the main stage, and many people saw it not only as a last chance for them to prove they had legs after John Squire left, it was also some sort of celebration of their legitmacy as iconic and spiritual percussors of the then still almighty, still all-conquering force called Britpop. As we all know, they blew either chance away, and they separated not long after that.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Monday, 24 July 2006 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

Mega-poxy-fulage means my theory of how Shampoo invented the Spice Girls and killed Britpop in an alternate universe with a two year time slippage has been lost forever.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 24 July 2006 20:57 (nineteen years ago)

If one can choose one album which killed britpop, it should be 'OK Computer'.
(I know, I know, it came out in the summer of '97, but that was definitely the turning point for British guitar bands: before that they wanted to be Oasis, after that they became Radiohead-wannabes. The Spice Girls had a totally different fanbase I think.)

― zeus (zeus), Monday, 24 July 2006 21:33 (nineteen years ago)

I think, overall, "OK Computer" and Robbie Williams seem like they might share the credit. Britpop was seen as authentic, while simultaneously bought by lots of people. Those two things sort of became the standard for cred and sales, for a bit, anyway.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 24 July 2006 21:36 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but Robbie wanted to be Oasis also for a few years, and he managed to beat Oasis at their home ground. Robbie Willams had much more common with Britpop than the Spice Girls.

― zeus (zeus), Monday, 24 July 2006 21:42 (nineteen years ago)

Well, isn't it time to come with the theory that Labour winning the General Election was, in hindsight, the death toll on Britpop?

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Monday, 24 July 2006 21:46 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, I see, John Harris already did it for all of us...

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Monday, 24 July 2006 21:52 (nineteen years ago)

So the winners of the Who Killed Britpop contest:

1. Tony Blair
2. Thom Yorke
3. Robbie Williams
4. Beck
5. Spice Girls

Anyone else?

― zeus (zeus), Monday, 24 July 2006 21:55 (nineteen years ago)

needs more beating.

― fandango (fandango), Monday, 24 July 2006 21:57 (nineteen years ago)

maybe it never died.

― pscott (elwisty), Monday, 24 July 2006 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

So the winners of the Who Killed Britpop contest:
1. Tony Blair
2. Thom Yorke
3. Robbie Williams
4. Beck
5. Spice Girls

Anyone else?

The Stone Roses at Reading '96. The Oasis' Knebworth Vanity. Liam G not fookin' going on a US tour. Chris Evans sacked from Radio 1. The Prodigy having two #1 singles in a row. Crisipan Mills Swastika comments. Noel G's XTC/Parliament comments.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Monday, 24 July 2006 22:09 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, and "3 Lions", of course. And England losing in the semis to the Germans at Euro '96.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Monday, 24 July 2006 22:11 (nineteen years ago)

maybe the original scene died, but that was kinda difuse once you get to oasis, it just went a bit quiter. travis hittin big in 1999 was britpop wasn't it? well quiter britpop. i mean if wonderwall was britpop then so was the man who and jamie oliver. if you want to say oasis are britpop then it didn't go away really. it just sounded a bit different but it was still BWG's. then when the strokes "happened" (76th best selling album of 2001? lower probably) they were a britpop band, thats not quite right, but maybe hoggboy were. or ikara colt and the parkinsons in a sorta nwonw which wasn't britpop anyway but sort of is. i think xhxck thinks placebo are bripop and if thats the case then it went from strength to strength.

― pscott (elwisty), Monday, 24 July 2006 22:24 (nineteen years ago)

placebo songs better than the best spice girls song?

― pscott (elwisty), Monday, 24 July 2006 23:02 (nineteen years ago)

best spice girls song: Wannabe. Yeah, Wannabe. deal with it.

superior britpop songs:

Various and sundry Elastica songs
This is Hardcore, Disco 2000
Blur's Girls&Boys, Coffee and TV

Ladykillers is ALMOST better, but not quite.

― Matthew E. Armstrong (gensu3k1), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 00:20 (nineteen years ago)

I always see what happened as a kind of split in '96: after the chart-triumph of "Wonderwall" and this notion of a triumphant burnished classicism (rather than straightforward retro-as-reinvigoration which arguably characterised Parklife, "Connection", "Cigarettes & Alcohol" etc.) becoming ascendant (Noel Gallagher boasting in Q that he'd already made 2 classic albums - "stack that up against the Beatles, their first two against mine, who wins?" or something to that effect) reaching a point where Britpop either just kept going in that direction and there was then a vacuum at the trashy pop end which was ripe to be filled by the Spice Girls.

Remember that pre the Spice Girls the big UK pop group was Take That who were really rather po-faced. So. if you squint, in 95 it was almost as if prefab pop was serious and britpop was fun, then there was this freaky friday reversal, and instead of best-practice being defined by "Back For Good" and "Boys & Girls" it was "Wannabe" and "A Design For Life".

I've always thought "A Design For Life" was the tipping point much more than OK Computer. By the time the latter came out Blur had already abandoned britpop and Oasis had surely already recorded Be Here Now. Also with Manic Street Preachers it was like a band who had been outside the club were suddenly hailed as returning champions (repeated the following year with The Verve) - the whole center of gravity had already shifted towards serious rock. The advance press on OK Computer (circa the end of 96) already reflected this, a lot of the media kind of characterised this forthcoming classic as a reaction to a newly serious, ambitious rock landscape.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 01:24 (nineteen years ago)

My friends and I all loved Spice Girls BTW, though I think we were a bit nonplussed by "Wannabe" and only really got on board with "Say You'll Be There", then granted retrospective love to the first hit.

The same thing happened with Britney for me actually, I wasn't really sure what I thought about "Baby One More Time" and it was really with "(You Drive Me) Crazy" that it all clicked with me, and suddenly the first hit seemed amazing too.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 01:25 (nineteen years ago)

When Blur came out with "Tender", one of their best singles to come back, and lost out to "..one more time" Britney.

"America was clearly top nation, and Britpop came to a full stop."

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 06:47 (nineteen years ago)

lost out the number one spot to "..one more time" Britney, I should add.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 06:48 (nineteen years ago)

Not that I have any idea about Harris' connection with Britpop, but certainly his conclusions seemed to have more foundation in his personal feelings of disgust than any actual facts.
-- Eppy (epp...), July 24th, 2006.

he wrote a big piece in nme in about january '95 that defined laddy britpop (ie post-oasis britpop). he *loved* oasis and wasn't exactly anti-lad in those days. it was around then that britpop moved definitively away from the suede-st et-denim-auteurs model.

and then he edited select 95-?99 which was very pro-britpop and pro-asis.

tim -- i just don't think anyone then thought that 'wannabe' existed in the same universe as the dadrock hits of summer '96: 'design for life', 'the day we caught the train', 'tattva'. by then there wasn't much 'britpop', in the 'parklife'/elastica sense, going on... but it was still britpop, just :/

bear in mind the manics played at knebworth... it's true, that single brought them in from 'the cold', but it wasn't a case of 'serious rock' exactly and it wasn't the tipping point -- 'ok computer' was because of the Mild Experimentalism. which isn't quite serious rock either.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 07:36 (nineteen years ago)

"beck created the context of reception for the mild experimentation of uk indie c. 96-9

which was then undertaken by.....who?"

Well, the Beta Band for one, who affected both Oasis & Blur pretty much immediately, & a whole lot of other UK indie, still, 10 yrs on.

― bham (bham), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 07:41 (nineteen years ago)

Tim, that's more or less exactly what I said hundreds of posts ago ;)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 07:56 (nineteen years ago)

Beta Band is good answer. i really can't think of many others tho. Gomez? heh

I'm not sure I agree with Tim about Take That being po-faced. They were always on TV larking about here.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 08:14 (nineteen years ago)

am trying to think of list of Mildly Experimental uk indie 96-9 but an firin' blanks a bit. it's not that beck necessarily directly influenced these bands, but helped create the context.

for example, how did 'country' stylings come into uk pop, c. 98?

anyway do far we have: beta band, super furry animals, gomez, scott 4, delakota (this stuff shades into the indie end of big beat), 'blur' era blur, errrrrrrm...

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 08:22 (nineteen years ago)

Cornershop.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 08:25 (nineteen years ago)

Primal Scream? (not that they were ever Britpop, or influenced by Beck or The Spice Girls)

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 08:27 (nineteen years ago)

If we're on the subject of late 90s Serious Big Rock, I've recently become obsessed with Tranquilizer by Geneva after downloading it again. (Myself and Tim's fantasy JLC remixes conversation prompted this).

Surely this is the ultimate 'released at totally the wrong time' record. Made not much impact at all in 1997, would have been all-conquering in 2004 or since.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 08:33 (nineteen years ago)

i wonder of bands like keane or whoever look up to geneva in a big way.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 08:36 (nineteen years ago)

I doubt they remember them. Weird that, at the time, his voice was this Big Unusual Thing and the reviews were all "ooh, he sings like a girl, not sure about this" whereas no one would bat an eyelid now.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 08:39 (nineteen years ago)

but geneva must have had fans... some of whom formed bands and stuff.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 08:40 (nineteen years ago)

Surely this is the ultimate 'released at totally the wrong time' record.

yes, it should have been released NEVER

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 08:58 (nineteen years ago)

i disagree about take that being po-faced, too. right at the end they went a bit 'serious' - as i remember this was BECAUSE they were splitting up - but prior to that, i mean, there was the jelly-covered ludicrousness of take that and party for starters. mostly they did cod-r&b which didn't try to be wacky or zany but after 'wannabe', and with the exception of 'spice up your life', the spice girls did the same.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 09:00 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I think the argument is that Take That were po-faced on record (which is true, outside their early quasi-rave stuff how many of their singles are FUN?) but a bit wakka-wakka-wakka live (jelly, S&M, devil worship, cheeky ickle Mark Owen et al); and that the Spices brought that "personality" of TT to record. But I dunno, out of "Wannabe", "Spice Up Your Life" and maybe "Who Do You Think You Are?", they weren't exactly free of the usual ballads and MEANING for pop. Steps should have been bigger...

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:17 (nineteen years ago)

no. mixed-gender bands are like blue peter presenters and their permagrins disturb me. steps have some good songs but 0 personality!

i think the best pop combines both the fun wakka-wakka stuff and the MEANING (whether hidden or whatever) - which was why spice girls were so great.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:21 (nineteen years ago)

steps were shit, always.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:22 (nineteen years ago)

So so so wrong.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:24 (nineteen years ago)

Gene were under my radar really. I think I only heard their rubbish singles.

which is true, outside their early quasi-rave stuff how many of their singles are FUN?

Relight My Fire, Everything Changes...maybe Sure...so yeah fair point i suppose

steps have some good songs but 0 personality!

H was WELSH. and GAY. and LSL liked it rough. bags of perso.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:24 (nineteen years ago)

Steps singles better than the best Britpop single:

Last Thing On My Mind
Tragedy
Deeper Shade Of Blue
Chain Reaction

(xp)

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:25 (nineteen years ago)

Gene were under my radar really.

what about gene, va?

xp crack is wack

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:26 (nineteen years ago)

"Chain Reaction" is OK, no better. You mean "One For Sorrow" instead!

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:27 (nineteen years ago)

seriously if steps had been all girls, or even all boys, i would be able to love them rather than liking some of their songs and being left utterly cold by steps-the-entity

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:29 (nineteen years ago)

that's very silly of you.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:30 (nineteen years ago)

altho you are sort of right in that no mixed-gender group of recent times has been able to match groups of just-girls or just-boys for quality...have they?

and if true, WHY is that? why should it be?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:32 (nineteen years ago)

i think lex makes sense here.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:32 (nineteen years ago)

i mean mixed-gender pop groups should be able to work just as well (of not more so) than all girl groups or all boy groups. and people should be able to love them just as much.

so why doesn't this happen?

before people bring up S Club and Liberty X, yeah they have some great moments but neither are as successful or as popular as certain other boybands/girlbands.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:34 (nineteen years ago)

Is it because all girl groups are "aspirational", and all boy bands are "desirable", and if you mix the two you're left with something nobody can get truly behind?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

i don't like s club-as-entity either - though oddly i'm perfectly fine with liberty x! maybe because they went for the MOODY look rather than the plastic-clothes-and-permagrins one.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

Lib X are older and sexier than S Club were. but S Club had some v good pure pop songs (co-opting the 'Swedish R&B' thing a lot, unlike Lib X).

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:39 (nineteen years ago)

altho you are sort of right in that no mixed-gender group of recent times has been able to match groups of just-girls or just-boys for quality...have they?
and if true, WHY is that? why should it be?

-- Konal Doddz (stevem7...) (webmail), Today 12:32 PM. (blueski) (later) (link)

Two reasons:

It's hard for a mixed group to create the illusion of a tight gang in the audience's mind.

What made ABBA work was the sheer pure magic of their pop songwriting, not the mixed gender factor.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:39 (nineteen years ago)

Does LEX think that Swedish R&B is a whitening of it or an actual appreciation of an "alien" culture?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:39 (nineteen years ago)

xp - yeah, i think dom is right. there isn't really any way to 'identify' with mixed-gender bands. also - they can't do 'dirrty' in the same way that all-boy and all-girl groups can, if they have double entendres they generally fall flat.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:39 (nineteen years ago)

Also, remember that before the Spices record labels were convinced that the full scale girl group was dead.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:40 (nineteen years ago)

swedish r&b seems fine to me, it's the whole bloodshy & avant sound innit. i never think of it as r&b though! it's bloody better than bwo.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:41 (nineteen years ago)

S Club 7 were probably as big as Girls Aloud if not bigger. Which is big enough when you think about it.

Dom's theory sort of makes sense. S Club made the best fist of it because their marketing people emphasised the Monkees-meets-90210 'big gang hanging out and having fun!' aspect. Even allowing for the FHM shoots, they were strangely sexless.

The logical conclusion to this is that some evil svengali needs to put together a 'Dawsons Creek' band where there is real actual sexual tension between the members. It will implode horribly after an album or two but nobody will care because the intervening months/years would have been such an amazing tabloid rollercoaster.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:41 (nineteen years ago)

NO ONE ELSE IS ALLOWED TO STEAL THAT IDEA THOSE ARE MY MILLIONS OKAY?!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:42 (nineteen years ago)

Do you think we could launch a Proper Pop Group in this day and age though, or would it be more "pop through the backdoor" by making them indie/R&B/emo?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:43 (nineteen years ago)

also it seems that popstars usually have to take a fairly traditional gender template as a base for their 'personality' (which they can reinforce or subtly get around in many ways, but there's always the underlying assumption that Boys are Like This and Girls are Like That, and Here are the Signifiers for these Boy Popstars and Girl Popstars conforming to that). and obv it's based on love/lust for the other gender - and most mixed-gender socialising in real life (past puberty) will have that frisson of sexual chemistry in it. mixed-gender bands don't acknowledge this at all - they barely recognise the concept of gender at all, they certainly don't do sexual tension. they're kind of like sexless barbie/ken dolls.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:44 (nineteen years ago)

HAHA XP!

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

eg: does anyone actually believe that any member of steps had genitalia? i can't imagine that.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

S Club 7 were probably as big as Girls Aloud if not bigger. Which is big enough when you think about it.

S Club were bigger than GA, had more #1s. But still an echelon below the most successful boybands and girlbands.

What made ABBA work was the sheer pure magic of their pop songwriting, not the mixed gender factor.

Well then one could theoretically have a mixed gender group with Really Good Songs/Song-writer and perhaps be v successful couldn't they?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:47 (nineteen years ago)

matt's idea is genius.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:48 (nineteen years ago)

S Club 7 were probably as big as Girls Aloud if not bigger. Which is big enough when you think about it.
Dom's theory sort of makes sense. S Club made the best fist of it because their marketing people emphasised the Monkees-meets-90210 'big gang hanging out and having fun!' aspect. Even allowing for the FHM shoots, they were strangely sexless.
The logical conclusion to this is that some evil svengali needs to put together a 'Dawsons Creek' band where there is real actual sexual tension between the members. It will implode horribly after an album or two but nobody will care because the intervening months/years would have been such an amazing tabloid rollercoaster.

-- Matt DC (runmd...) (webmail), Today 12:41 PM. (Matt DC) (later) (link)

Well, that means ABBA fit the bill perfectly.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:49 (nineteen years ago)

mixed-gender bands don't acknowledge this at all - they barely recognise the concept of gender at all, they certainly don't do sexual tension. they're kind of like sexless barbie/ken dolls.

but they COULD/SHOULD acknowledge it. look at the template in the States with Pussycat Dolls ft. WillIAm or that new one with Snoop - male guy is there to try and get boys into the track more and to provide response to the girls on record. This sort of dynamic could work just as well if not better if the guy was actually part of the group - I'm convinced of it.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:50 (nineteen years ago)

ha ha, 'male guy'

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:50 (nineteen years ago)

Dom, the videos to their ballads will feature them sitting in lakeside reveries and would be perfect for drippy acoustic guitar + strings arrangements for guilty consumers who hide their Steps records behind copies of Back To Bedlam.

Their club bangers would be raunchy in a 'Justin and Kylie grinding on the dancefloor' manner and would be enormous. Also the blokes would be rugged lumps of testosteronex0r and not gay-looking like them in Steps.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:50 (nineteen years ago)

The name that everyone's missing in the 'mildly experimental mid-90s UK indie, influenced by Beck' field is Badly Drawn Boy, who I think feeds into a lot of the nu-folk stuff around today - Adem, Tuung, Fence people. Beta Bands 3 eps also a big influnece, obv.

― bham (bham), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:51 (nineteen years ago)

Also, one big reason why Lex is wrong = ALCAZAR.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:52 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but Alcazar are probably the best band ever, so its not far to compare other acts to them.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:53 (nineteen years ago)

matt dc's idea has to happen. i want to be in charge of video concepts please

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:53 (nineteen years ago)

mixed-gender bands don't acknowledge this at all - they barely recognise the concept of gender at all, they certainly don't do sexual tension. they're kind of like sexless barbie/ken dolls.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:54 (nineteen years ago)

Alcazar worked v well except they weren't popular/successful enough (in UK). But personally I'd put that more down to them being from the continent (and too 'culturally different' to industry/media demands) than being mixed gender.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:54 (nineteen years ago)

did alcazar have any songs apart from that one AMAZING one? i certainly don't relate to them as an entity, i don't even know what they look like!

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:54 (nineteen years ago)

i forgot about when badly drawn bwoy was relatively uh hip.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:55 (nineteen years ago)

Lex:

http://www.musikbase.de/images/groups/Alcazar.jpg

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:56 (nineteen years ago)

did the guy in Elastica ever sing?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:56 (nineteen years ago)

And if the "amazing" one you're thinking of is "This Is The World We Live In", then, yeah, they had so many other great songs. "Sexual Guarantee", "Physical", "Crying at the Discotheque" (please make sure that is played at my funeral, kthx)... want me to gmail them to you?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:57 (nineteen years ago)

no.

xpost

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:58 (nineteen years ago)

Amazing Alcazar songs:

This Is The World We Live In
Crying At The Discotheque
Sexual Guarantee
Tears Of A Clone
Menage A Trois
maybe 1 or 2 others

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:58 (nineteen years ago)

i am in work and cannot look at pictures

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:58 (nineteen years ago)

did the guy in Elastica ever sing?

-- Konal Doddz (stevem7...) (webmail), Today 12:56 PM. (blueski) (later) (link)
No. But that sort of "response" could be worked visually (i.e., in the videos).

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:58 (nineteen years ago)

the corrs are another one.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 10:59 (nineteen years ago)

family groups don't count.

you would only know what Alcazar looked like if you saw their videos on The Box (is this still going?). i don't know if Smash Hits et al really acknowledged them (did they?)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 11:00 (nineteen years ago)

look at the template in the States with Pussycat Dolls ft. WillIAm or that new one with Snoop

I LOVE THE NEW PUSSYCAT DOLLS SONG SO MUCH

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 11:00 (nineteen years ago)

PCDs have sex but 0 personality whereas S Club/Steps etc. had personality but 0 sex.

Ou est le middle ground?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 11:02 (nineteen years ago)

sex >>>>> personality

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 11:03 (nineteen years ago)

this is why justin >> jc

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 11:04 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, Lex, you're breaking new records in being completely wrong again. Justin looks like he'd cry after sex. JC would slam you against a wall until you begged him to stop.

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 11:10 (nineteen years ago)

Justin looks more like he'd make you tea and cookies after sex. JC just sounds desperate.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 11:16 (nineteen years ago)

JC pwns

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 11:17 (nineteen years ago)

And not just because he gives me the horn something fierce. Justin is a lightweight, an upper-body queen and... an emotional wimp.

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 11:18 (nineteen years ago)

JC sounds like he would be happy having sex with skanks the rest of his life.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

JC = man of the people, then.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:07 (nineteen years ago)

justin is more of a twink.

justin vs jc is a potentially interesting thread actually. i have no vested interest - i fancy justin a lot more and probably prefer his music, but only just - but in terms of justin turning into massive global star and jc, er, not. and now justin seems essentially to be doing exactly what jc did for his album, but succeeding with it!

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:11 (nineteen years ago)

Sometimes I think people love Justin more because his lesser degree of skillz compared to JC makes him less intimidating! But really it's the old 'it's the song, not the singer, that is the star' thing with JT so much of the time.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

really it's the old 'it's the song, not the singer, that is the star' thing with JT so much of the time.

!!!!!!!!!!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

My mind is boggling about how this can even remotely be true considering the massiveness of the global cult of personality surrounding Justin especially relative to the quality of Rock Your Body or whatever that fourth single was called.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:31 (nineteen years ago)

except he's not that interesting, is weird lookin', has a pretty weedy voice, mediocre dancer...he's just a really nice guy (but still struggles to convince with the 'rebel' thing). like Dan, Ned and others i guess i was never fully convinced by the level of star quality perscribed to him. but i do think he has one or two great singles and one or two more very good ones. see also Xtina being clearly better than Britney but this not stopping Britney having had better singles in certain ways.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:41 (nineteen years ago)

i.e. Xtina is waaaay more intimidating than Britney - a big part of that being because she is stronger in several ways (esp. in voice)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:43 (nineteen years ago)

this thread is basically just a summarisation now of every ILM thread ever isn't it?

we'll be onto minimal vs dadhouse next.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:43 (nineteen years ago)

JC = man of the people, then.

-- Dom Passantino (juror...) (webmail), Today 3:07 PM. (Dom Passantino) (later) (link)

LOL!

No, just a lonely sad bloke, if that were true.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

that was the best single?

dunno, the whole jt phenom is v embarrassing to look back on.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

he may be sad (no new deal?) but he is surely not lonely. (xpost)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

Hooray!

justin vs jc is a potentially interesting thread actually.

And JC would win and that's that. (Justin's elevation I see primarily as a function of projection from a critical subset desperate to ascribe hero quality to a particular figure that summarizes an already overcooked situation by means of a 'pedigree.' Britpop comparison point: Richard Ashcroft.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

PTS OF ORDER RE MY BOYFRIEND:

the fourth single was 'senorita'. it was terrific! it had that really obvious and inevitable "gentlemen, goodnight; ladies...good morning" end which nevertheless made everyone's knees go totally weak. he was super-hott in the video. 'rock your body' is the weakest justin single but it's still good.

except he's not that interesting, is weird lookin', has a pretty weedy voice, mediocre dancer

he is v interesting to me, he is NOT WEIRD LOOKING HE IS FIT, he has a good voice for his material, and he is A SUPERB DANCER LOOK AT THOSE HIPS.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

Put it simply: JC is talented, some of the songs were actually good, but the sex-freak persona of his songs didn't come off as sexy, but rather as awkward.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

(To tease out my words a bit more -- Justin FUNCTIONS so perfectly/inoffensively as a 'boy band meets state-of-art hip-hop' fusion that he is lauded for that alone. This same line of thought applied to differing all-conquering genres of its time produced Blood, Sweat and Tears.)

which nevertheless made everyone's knees go totally weak

It kinda made me consider dumpsters and guns, but it would.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

Justin's elevation I see primarily as a function of projection from a critical subset desperate to ascribe hero quality to a particular figure that summarizes an already overcooked situation by means of a 'pedigree.' Britpop comparison point: Richard Ashcroft

He's talkin' funny talk!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

Justin looks like he'd sweet-talk you into sex, take you by surprise, cum in 45 seconds, and then slink and mutter his way out of the room, half-dressed, before you realized what happened.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

I like 'Senorita'

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

but would prefer it if it had been sung by the bloke from GO WEST during his heyday.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

Justin looks like he'd sweet-talk you into sex, take you by surprise, cum in 45 seconds, and then slink and mutter his way out of the room, half-dressed, before you realized what happened.

Regrettably for him, he proceeded to do just that with Janet in front of billions.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

i can buy this re justin's critical love (though i think justin's music is a lot better than you do!) but that's not really what i'm talking about. justin is a supermegahottpinuppopstar who can pack stadia worldwide with screaming girls, and this would have happened whether some critic those girls had neither heard of nor cared about gave him the thumbs up. jc's album got good reviews too, but their popularity can't be compared. i'm interested in why - especially as the easy "justin's hip hop sound is more commercial than justin's electro sound" explanation is being shown up to be a red herring now that justin is now doing jc's electro sound himself and it will no doubt be a massive success.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

it had that really obvious and inevitable "gentlemen, goodnight; ladies...good morning" end

not sure how it was 'obvious' or 'inevitable'!

jc was two years ahead of his time innit.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

Also, the idea of an ILM-managed pop group is hilarious. I can see the press release now: "4 years after their formation and following the 'accidental' deaths of all but one member of their management team, internet pop supergroup 'Poxy Furious' is finally about to release their first single..."

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

Justin looks like he'd sweet-talk you into sex, take you by surprise, cum in 45 seconds, and then slink and mutter his way out of the room, half-dressed, before you realized what happened.

please don't talk about my boyfriend like that :(

(ALSO HE TOTALLY DOES NOT LOOK LIKE HE'D DO THAT TO ME)

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

i'm interested in why

like i say i think it's largely down to his fans not feeling intimidated by him because he's not THAT good as to alienate them. it ties in with what you've said before about 'generic' being good.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

Also, the idea of an ILM-managed pop group is hilarious.

haha, shimura curves!

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

and this would have happened whether some critic those girls had neither heard of nor cared about gave him the thumbs up

I dunno, man, everything about Justin's solo career makes it seem like he WANTS the critics on his side and is groaningly self-conscious of the fact -- every other thing about him seems to have him mentioning about how he writes or cowrites the songs, and who the hell would care about that other than us earnest scribblers? Which is probably what makes him so offputting all around (and the slavering in response all the more obviously boring), though it also probably proves your larger point about how he would have succeeded without those moves. As it is, the overwrought 'OMG the PERFECT POP STAR!' discourse that's resulted turned an initially passive 'well THIS sucks' impulse into seething rage on my part (partially because it seemed like a slew of people happily dedicated to demolishing ideas of set canons that had been stifling discussion for so long then proceeded to merrily build a new one, a heartily disgusting prospect).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

i missed the ilx commentary on jc and as a 'civilian' in this war i thought that his first single was just ok (in retro i like it more than 'like i love you' but not at the time) and 'a.d.i.d.a.s' was ludicrous. i now 'get' 'a.d.i.d.a.s' tho.

every other thing about him seems to have him mentioning about how he writes or cowrites the songs, and who the hell would care about that other than us earnest scribblers?

nah, real people *do* care about that shit

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

like i say i think it's largely down to his fans not feeling intimidated by him because he's not THAT good as to alienate them. it ties in with what you've said before about 'generic' being good.

but he appeals in an entirely different way! i don't think intimidation/lack of is particularly important. his fans mostly just want to bone him (as well as liking his music). his big hits weren't particularly generic either - they certainly didn't have the anonymity that eg the new pussycat dolls single, or amerie's 'touch', have. if anything i think there's a perception that justin is "more" than a generic popstar, that he is a genuine long-lasting talent.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

nah, real people *do* care about that shit

I should become more fake.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

xpost I don't think Justin's doing that to impress critics, I think he's doing that so he can be more like mid-80s Michael Jackson. I think he wants his fans to take him seriously, and to do so the critics are a useful tool, but I think he's talking directly to his fans as much as he is to us. Basically, he's making it more defensible to like him.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:08 (nineteen years ago)

eppy otm

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

oh i think justin def wants the critics on side (very much like pharrell (whose album, as an aside, is so goddamn bad)). and largely i agree with ned's assessment of why those critics decided to be on side. but their motives and reasons are almost certainly not the same as those of the people who buy justin's cds and concert tickets, who would have made him a massive star regardless of the critical discourse.

every other thing about him seems to have him mentioning about how he writes or cowrites the songs, and who the hell would care about that other than us earnest scribblers?

sadly, authenticity is 'in' :(

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

And Shimura curves are indie, they totally don't count.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

x-post to Eppy's 'defensible' bit -- Yeah, but doesn't that mean you're buying into an idea of what constitutes a 'valid' artisic creation, an idea that is at best axiomatic? ("To defeat the rockist we must BECOME the rockist!")

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

It goes back to the Beatles move really--you already look hot, so you broaden your audience by appealing to the boys who need to be able to defend their music collection to their friends. Doing so doesn't really lose you the female fans unless you go all-out Radiohead.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:12 (nineteen years ago)

Wait, what? I'm just saying it makes sense from a career standpoint.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:12 (nineteen years ago)

Uh, last one being an xpost to Ned.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:12 (nineteen years ago)

very much like pharrell (whose album, as an aside, is so goddamn bad)

I just said this elsewhere, but I like the cover art...and that's all I have to say either way.

Doing so doesn't really lose you the female fans unless you go all-out Radiohead.

Based on things like my casual observations of demographics at their concerts you might want to choose a better example. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:13 (nineteen years ago)

Haha well I didn't say join Radiohead, that'd be a different thing altogether...

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

And let us not forget the whole "Justin appears with the Flaming Lips" thing.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

I'm just saying it makes sense from a career standpoint.

Which in turn calls into question ideas of 'career!' (I may be beating dead horses here but I'm starting to get fascinated by how readily this conversation is turning into not-so-hidden parallels to general business model development.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

btw, several years ago, people tried and failed with this:

am trying to think of list of Mildly Experimental uk indie 96-9 but an firin' blanks a bit.

Super Furry Animals, anyone?

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

"Greetings, welcome to the board meeting of Timberco. As we can see here, the latest projection indicates a further market penetration among the long-term NPR demographic necessary to sustain purchase of the planned sixth album, Honestly Bare Naked (With Just a Detuned Guitar), in 2015..."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

But yes, Super Furry Animals I suppose. Beta Band, yeah. Lo-Fidelity All-Stars?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

I think Justin was put in a position where he could have very well lost his ability to make music on such a high level, with such a visible producers, i.e. his "career" would have tanked. Before Justified almost everyone assumed he would be dead in the water--it was only after that turned out to be so good that his stardom seemed predestined. Pop is not, fundamentally, basement-bedroom-garage music, so to make it you have to be career-conscious, and the fact is that picking a level of authenticity you think will be most beneficial and then consciously cultivating that realness or unrealness is a necessary part of making pop.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

But then I'm sitting here inputting show deposits for Gary Numan, so maybe I'm biased.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

SFA are a weird red herring when it comes to speak about British indie 1989-2006 (not as big a one as Belle & S are, but still).

LFAS were never really that popular in the UK, I think they may even have sold more records in America.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

x-post -- :-D

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

ailsa, people did provide quite a few examples in the end - see upthread

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

Eppy is eating all the OTM and spitting it back in your faces here.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

Ew, sticky.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:23 (nineteen years ago)

justin can eat my otm any time

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:28 (nineteen years ago)

:-O

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:28 (nineteen years ago)

As it were.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:28 (nineteen years ago)

Old trouser member?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

Odd tricky muscle.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:30 (nineteen years ago)

SFA are a weird red herring when it comes to speak about British indie 1989-2006 (not as big a one as Belle & S are, but still).

uh?

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

Which JC wuz you lot talking about just then?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

Before Justified almost everyone assumed he would be dead in the water--it was only after that turned out to be so good that his stardom seemed predestined.

I'm not so sure. The Neptunes had already stated to demonstrate how their pop productino could work with Nelly/N-Sync's 'Girlfriend'. And N-Sync themselves were reaching for wider audience with 'Pop' and it's super-slicker-than-yer-average production. People had earmarked JT for solo success since N-Sync started as he was clearly the frontman (read 'cutest' and LEAST-THREATENING for the tweens).

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

Which JC wuz you lot talking about just then?

John Cena obviously.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

Jimmy Carter.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but everybody else from a boyband who'd tried to go solo met with swift defeat. I'm not saying there aren't reasons for suspecting he would have done well, but I remember very very clearly the utter surprise that he had a successful solo career. Maybe the doubt was more pronounced before the Neptunes signed on.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

uh?

Neither of them fit into any great narrative of indie, surely? Outsiders of outsiders, if you will.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

telstar (i think) clearly had posh spice marked for greatness and see how that worked out... jt's success + 'cred' was a surprise.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

Well, how about Gary Barlow vs Robbie Williams, then?

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

And certainly he and his "handlers" came at it from the angle that it was far from assured--he worked really, really hard at becoming a solo success, it seems like.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

telstar (i think) clearly had posh spice marked for greatness and see how that worked out

actually scrap what i said at the start - 'out of your mind' is the greatest spice girls song ever

FULL CIRCLE!

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

THIS THREAD'S GONNA PUNISH U

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

So far this thread hasn't managed to fit in MIA, Dave Matthews, or Pitchfork, but apart from that I think we're doing pretty well.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

I heard from Pitchfork that MIA was sonned by the Dave Matthews Band in a AOL beef.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

i hope it fits in neither of the last two things

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

It didn't fit MSTRKRFT or Justice in either.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:46 (nineteen years ago)

Or Popjustice.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:46 (nineteen years ago)

Posh worked considerably less hard at becoming a proper post-Spices pop success than Geri, Emma or Mel C (who's 'indie direction' and subsequent u-turn was the textbook example of how NOT to do Robbie/Justin-style crossover).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

mel c >>>>>>>>>>> robbie fucking williams

(mel c has two good songs, williams NONE)

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

Posh worked considerably less hard at becoming a proper post-Spices pop success than Geri, Emma or Mel C

Who needs to work hard, when you've got a man doing it for you?

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

Commercially, I mean (both are shit IMO). Mel C was a good pop weathervane in the late 90s - Robbie was the biggest pop star in Britain and she thought "I could do that!" and tried to go all indie, playing at V, covering Anarchy In The UK etc.

At the same time the pop audience was at the total opposite ends of the spectrum and it was all hands-in-the-air pop trance, which is exactly what she ended up aping.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:01 (nineteen years ago)

'Goin' Down' >>> 'I Turn To You'

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

the two good mel c songs are 'when you're gone' and 'never be the same again'

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

and she was not alone for either of those.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

bryan adams and lisa lopes had to hold her hand, yes

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:24 (nineteen years ago)

best Spice Girls solo song in which the ex-Spice Girl is the only performer/artist credited?

i'm saying Bunton's 'Maybe' or Mel C's 'Goin Down'

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

"Crickets Sing for Anamaria"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

1 Melanie B featuring Missy 'Misdemeanor' Elliott I Want You Back Sep 1998 Notes
4 Melanie B Tell Me Oct 2000 Notes
5 Melanie B Feels So Good Mar 2001
13 Melanie B Lullaby Jun 2001

Bryan Adams featuring Melanie C When You're Gone Dec 1998
4 Melanie C Goin' Down Oct 1999 Notes
4 Melanie C Northern Star Dec 1999
1 Melanie C featuring Lisa Left Eye Lopes Never Be The Same Again Apr 2000 Notes
1 Melanie C I Turn To You Aug 2000
18 Melanie C If That Were Me Dec 2000
7 Melanie C Here It Comes Again Mar 2003
14 Melanie C On The Horizon Jun 2003
27 Melanie C Melt / Yeh Yeh Yeh Nov 2003
10 Melanie C Next Best Superstar Apr 2005

2 Tin Tin Out featuring Emma Bunton What I Am Nov 1999
1 Emma Bunton What Took You So Long Apr 2001 Notes
5 Emma Bunton Take My Breath Away Sep 2001
20 Emma Bunton We're Not Gonna Sleep Tonight Dec 2001
5 Emma Bunton Free Me Jun 2003 Notes
6 Emma Bunton Maybe Oct 2003 Notes
7 Emma Bunton I'll Be There Feb 2004 Notes
15 Emma Bunton Crickets Sing For Anamaria Jun 2004

2 True Steppers & Dane Bowers featuring Victoria Beckham Out Of Your Mind Aug 2000
6 Victoria Beckham Not Such An Innocent Girl Sep 2001 Notes
6 Victoria Beckham A Mind Of It's Own Feb 2002
3 Victoria Beckham This Groove / Let Your Head Go Jan 2004

2 Geri Halliwell Look At Me May 1999 Notes
1 Geri Halliwell Mi Chico Latino Aug 1999
1 Geri Halliwell Lift Me Up Nov 1999
1 Geri Halliwell Bag It Up Mar 2000
1 Geri Halliwell It's Raining Men May 2001 Notes
8 Geri Halliwell Scream If You Wanna Go Faster Aug 2001
7 Geri Halliwell Calling Dec 2001 Notes
4 Geri Halliwell Ride It Dec 2004 Notes
22 Geri Halliwell Desire Jun 2005

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

best Spice Girls solo song in which the ex-Spice Girl is the only performer/artist credited?

haha, i never thought about that! yeah, the good 'solo' spice songs are mostly collaborations.

mel b ft missy elliott
truesteppers ft victoria beckham and dane bowers
mel c ft lisa lopes/bryan adams ft mel c

best actual solo spice single = emma's 'i'll be there' (or any of the stuff off that album; 'crickets sing for anamaria' and 'no sign of life' and 'maybe' are all very good too)

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:47 (nineteen years ago)

whoever thought emma would end up with the best strike rate?!

good post-spice singles:

1 Melanie B featuring Missy 'Misdemeanor' Elliott I Want You Back Sep 1998 Notes

Bryan Adams featuring Melanie C When You're Gone Dec 1998
1 Melanie C featuring Lisa Left Eye Lopes Never Be The Same Again Apr 2000 Notes

2 Tin Tin Out featuring Emma Bunton What I Am Nov 1999
1 Emma Bunton What Took You So Long Apr 2001 Notes
5 Emma Bunton Free Me Jun 2003 Notes
6 Emma Bunton Maybe Oct 2003 Notes
7 Emma Bunton I'll Be There Feb 2004 Notes
15 Emma Bunton Crickets Sing For Anamaria Jun 2004

2 True Steppers & Dane Bowers featuring Victoria Beckham Out Of Your Mind Aug 2000

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

is 'Ride It' Geri's best single?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

all of geri's singles make me go :ooooo but i guess 'it's raining men' was at least, once upon a time, before she got her grubby paws on it, a very good song

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

"Scream If You Wanna Go Faster", I'd have said, but its not exactly rich pickings.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

"I Turn To You" should've been in Mel C's list too. Tho it is the weakest of the 3.

― Annie Get Your Gin (noodle vague), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

"Let Your Head Go", people!

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 20:11 (nineteen years ago)

Neither of them [SFA and B&S] fit into any great narrative of indie, surely? Outsiders of outsiders, if you will.

-- Dom Passantino (juror...), July 25th, 2006.

nah. both emerged summer '96, in the middle of anglomania, so there's their non-englishness. and that connects, for b&s, with the whole arab strap-delgados-mogwai thing. (arab strap also 'broke'/had their one hit during euro '96.) sure, b&s don't sound much like those bands but it felt like a 'return to proper indie' thing. and then they were the big act at the first ATP in '99, i think, the 'bowlie weekender'. back to '86 indeed.

sfa are harder to put into a narrative, but i think they go alongside the bayda band in the 'mildly experimental' box. none of these acts are as easily lumped together as, say, britpop acts -- exactly because 'eclecticism' was their big thing.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 07:33 (nineteen years ago)

mel c's "suddenly monday" is a great pop song.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 07:44 (nineteen years ago)

You guys forgot one in that first SG listing, for an obvious reason...

14 Melanie G Word Up Jul 1999 Notes

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 07:56 (nineteen years ago)

Am I alone in liking Look At Me?

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 08:13 (nineteen years ago)

I don't dislike any of her stuff. But then, that's me.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 08:16 (nineteen years ago)

>elastica's 'connection' is better than any spice girls song.<

Is elastica britpop? Then the worst song off that first album is better than any spice girl's song.

― nicky lo-fi (nicky lo-fi), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 08:33 (nineteen years ago)

elastica are definitely britpop.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 08:39 (nineteen years ago)

B&S surely fit into the 'narrative' of Scottish indie very well.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 08:39 (nineteen years ago)

Let's mention Bis with the other Scottish acts, also Gorky's Zygotic Mynci with SFA.

― zeus (zeus), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 08:47 (nineteen years ago)

yes.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 08:48 (nineteen years ago)

And should we mention Clinic? Their first EPs came out in '97 (alongside the Beta Band-type of more experimenal indie). Even we can mention Broadcast, too.

― zeus (zeus), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 08:50 (nineteen years ago)

ah, why not? they don't really fit my 'beck' story but ech.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 08:51 (nineteen years ago)

lol what is the most Britpop Stereolab song?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:09 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.lookalikes-susanscott.co.uk/Images%2010_03/TV%20Resized/Chris%20Evans%20-%20Archie%20Look.jpg

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:10 (nineteen years ago)

http://eil.com/newgallery/Blur-To-The-End-73317.jpg

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:14 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.lookalikes-susanscott.co.uk/Images%2010_03/TV%20Resized/Chris%20Evans%20-%20Archie%20Look.jpg

http://boazrimmer.com/wordp/wp-content/billiepiper.jpg

The Death Of Britpop

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:18 (nineteen years ago)

lol what is the most Britpop Stereolab song?

Yeah, Laetitia was a back singer in Blur's "To The End". Stereolab charted with "Ping Pong" in 1994, at the height of Britpop!!! Hahaaaa.

― zeus (zeus), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:51 (nineteen years ago)

i never found that at all strange. i found it strange that they took a shitty post-kraut direction, as i saw it.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:54 (nineteen years ago)

The one thing I'm amazed no one on this thread has mentioned is the dreaded term NOELROCK. Around 1996, the time OCS and Cast and the myriad Oasis clones started springing up, being self-consciously retro suddenly became the most unfashionable thing in the world (unless you were Oasis). Suddenly it all became about Beck or Radiohead or whoever in terms of critical plaudits (although obviously many of the above dadrock acts were massive commercially).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:55 (nineteen years ago)

otm (i've been using 'dadrock' fer 'noelrock').

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:56 (nineteen years ago)

Was there any difference between dadrock and noelrock? Was noelrock more FOR THA KIDZ, or were they the just terms for the same genre (remember "sports metal"?)?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:57 (nineteen years ago)

stereolab are really good!!! they can't be britpop, they make BRAINY music.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:58 (nineteen years ago)

Intelligent Britpop Music (IBM)

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 09:59 (nineteen years ago)

Was there any difference between dadrock and noelrock? Was noelrock more FOR THA KIDZ, or were they the just terms for the same genre (remember "sports metal"?)?
-- Dom Passantino (juror...), July 26th, 2006.

basically the same thing. perhaps it's unfair to call weller 'noelrock'.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:00 (nineteen years ago)

It was SPORTZ metal! There was a Z there people.

Nu-metal is the other big factor here. There was still a bit of a hangover from Britpop that extended right into the late 90s, especially in relation to who was still selling albums, headlining festivals etc.

I remember being at the Leeds festival in 2000 (my last big indie hurrah probably) and you had Oasis and Pulp (and Beck) vying on the bill with Slipknot and Limp Bizkit and Blink 182, attracting totally different audiences. Probably the first (and to be honest only) time when I felt like some gigantic sudden generational shift had occurred at which point the 90s bands meant next to nothing to The Kids. Then 12 months later the Strokes happened and a whole new aristocracy began to establish itself.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:18 (nineteen years ago)

pulp headlining a festival in 2000 is an odd idea!

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:20 (nineteen years ago)

pulp headlining a festival in 2000 is an odd idea!

-- Roughage Crew (miltonpinsk...) (webmail), Today 12:20 PM. (Enrique) (later) (link)

Then what do you say to Pearl Jam headlining the last day at this year's Reading Festival on the main stage?

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:27 (nineteen years ago)

you're kidding?

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:30 (nineteen years ago)

Limp Bizkit were the highlight of Leeds 2000.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:31 (nineteen years ago)

I had a pretty embarassing 'should I go and see Les Rythmes Digitales or Rage Against The Machine?' dilemma that day ha ha

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:32 (nineteen years ago)

you're kidding?

-- Roughage Crew (miltonpinsk...) (webmail), Today 12:30 PM. (Enrique) (later) (link)

No, I'm not. Just check it out.

http://www.meanfiddler.com/displayPage_reading.asp?PageID=445

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:32 (nineteen years ago)

which did you choose, stevem?

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

i stood equidistant between the two and lo the mash-up ensued.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:37 (nineteen years ago)

I saw RATM! They were great!

I'd seen LRD twice that year anyway and frankly the entertainment value of watching Jacques Lu Cont and Some Girl jumping around while the album played in the background had worn off by then.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:44 (nineteen years ago)

(Will the Lex ever speak to me again after that post, I wonder?)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 10:51 (nineteen years ago)

that festival was the only time i've seen Primal Scream and Oasis too.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:34 (nineteen years ago)

it was THIS DECADE ffs!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:34 (nineteen years ago)

you two are horrifying me.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:38 (nineteen years ago)

Do you like RATM Lex?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:40 (nineteen years ago)

No, this isn't just Lexbait.

- Dom Passantino ([email protected]), July 24th, 2006 10:31 AM.

can't hold us down

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:48 (nineteen years ago)

of course i don't like ratm. ratm are UNACCEPTABLE

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:48 (nineteen years ago)

But they are URBAN MUSICS

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:51 (nineteen years ago)

they'e unhygienic.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:52 (nineteen years ago)

So was ODB.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:55 (nineteen years ago)

dom you are being silly, ratm are so obviously horrifyingly bad and awful in EVERY WAY that to compare them to genius odb is ludicrous.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

I was heard some kids rapping along to Bulls On Parade on the bus. THIS IS ACTUALLY TRUE.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

who are bulls on parade?

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 11:59 (nineteen years ago)

we all are bulls on parade.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

jim bowen's old rap crew.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

who is jim bowen?

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:05 (nineteen years ago)

He did a lot of work in the black community.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:08 (nineteen years ago)

(man alive)

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:11 (nineteen years ago)

Jim Bowen's racialist howler on radio = death of Britpop

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:15 (nineteen years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38312000/jpg/_38312237_jim_bowen300.jpg

"Rally round the family with a pocket full of shells"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:15 (nineteen years ago)

Damon Albarn wanted to call "Beetlebum" "Daft Nig Nog", but Graham stopped him.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:16 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.getnoticed.net/my_sites/jim_bowen/jb7.jpg

"Lights out, guerilla radio, turn that shit up"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:21 (nineteen years ago)

"and Bully's special prize....A BULLET IN THE HEAD"

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:25 (nineteen years ago)

the Bullseye theme tune >>>>> all Britpop, all Spices

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:26 (nineteen years ago)

IT'LL TAKE ME FIVE MINUTESZ TO KOUNT DIS OUT!! KOUNT DIS OUT!! KOUNT DIS OUT!!

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

"And Bully's special prize... freedom for Mumia Abu Jamal"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:30 (nineteen years ago)

those that bullseyed are justified

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:37 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.ukgameshows.com/atoz/programmes/b/bullseye/bowenbully.jpg

Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me! MOTHERFUCKER!

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

The "All of which are American dreams" mantra on "Know Your Enemy" = The Death Of Britpop

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:57 (nineteen years ago)

of course i don't like ratm. ratm are UNACCEPTABLE

Sir, you are a hero.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

Today, Stylus "Magazine" sez that only racists liked The Smiths.

I can't wait until Stylus claims that only racists like music with guitars in it!!

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

Also, Mel B's solo record deserved better because it had a couple of great shots of her tits. Phowar.

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

Does anybody remember how after RATM's first album everyone treated them like they were Sleater-Kinney or something? Total critical respect. Or am I just making this up? (My main RATM memory is sitting on the running track at my high school and listening to "Bulls on Parade" and thinking "I like this but I am a teenage boy, so I don't think that counts.")

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:16 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe more inter-band respect, but still.

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:17 (nineteen years ago)

They were like a thing to namecheck to get cred.

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:17 (nineteen years ago)

Also, Mel B's solo record deserved better because it had a couple of great shots of her tits. Phowar.

-- ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (estebanbutte...) (webmail), Today 3:15 PM. (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!) (later) (link)

Now I know why Geri H's second album flopped: it was the lack of curves.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:18 (nineteen years ago)

Does anybody remember how after RATM's first album everyone treated them like they were Sleater-Kinney or something? Total critical respect.

Oh yes, I remember it all too well. And as I've said many times before, my first experience of them was a live show before the album's release that I *hated*, and so for the next months I felt like I was living in an asylum.

My favorite comment on them at the time from Front 242 -- "While I like them, they make me feel like I am back in kindergarten."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

"Scream If You Want Me To Get Plastic Surgery"

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

Did anyone ever apologize for that whole thing or did it go without saying after a certain point?

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:21 (nineteen years ago)

-- Eppy (epp...) (webmail), Today 3:16 PM. (Eppy) (later) (link)

I think it was the return of the "No synths were used during the making of this record" disclaimer.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:21 (nineteen years ago)

Carmodist Theory: Britpop died when the Spice Girls launched Channel Five.

Anyone? Anyone?

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:30 (nineteen years ago)

Britpop died when THATCHER'S CHILDREN fuelled up on years of BEECHING RAILWAY REFORMS and MIND YOUR LANGUAGE durp-de-durp ta-teedle-e-tum.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:31 (nineteen years ago)

I think it was the return of the "No synths were used during the making of this record" disclaimer.

Ah yes, I had forgotten about that hateful little bit of poseurdom.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

Really? Anyway, Britpop began once ITV stopped broadcasting morning start-up tunes (including the Human League-esque "Yorkshire Television Theme") and I don't think you can dispute that.

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

estebin carmodez otm.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

hateful little bit of poseurdom

you like smashing pumpkins

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

Britpop died when the NME made that Tony Blair cover.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

you like smashing pumpkins

They would have recorded with eight thousand synth players if they could have afforded it. (And that is one reason why I like them.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:38 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, for whatever you can say about Billy Corgan, dude never made any particular claims to authenticity.

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

I think it was the return of the "No synths were used during the making of this record" disclaimer.

Ah yes, I had forgotten about that hateful little bit of poseurdom.

Didn't White Stripes have a similar statement on Elephant or White Blood Cells or both?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah but they also had a song about a squirrel so it was more OK.

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:55 (nineteen years ago)

it's kind of implicit that the white stripes hate most things post-~~1865 1964~~ amplification.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:55 (nineteen years ago)

And Meg's tits are pretty nice.

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

The White Stripes are more of an overt art statement than a band as such so I'm more amused by that end-runaround in their case (though it's still a lame sentiment -- I'll allow Queen's use of it originally because 1) it was before the construction of the 'synth haircut music' strawman and 2) they went that route anyway).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

And Meg's tits are pretty nice.

-- ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (estebanbutte...) (webmail), Today 3:56 PM. (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!) (later) (link)

The most OTM regard this thread has had up until now!

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:00 (nineteen years ago)

fook off

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

why is it that people leering over meg white feels creepier and more wrong than people leering over beyoncé?

(prob because b could kick all indie leerers' asses)

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

both are munters, in their separate ways.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

Because people leering over Meg are indie leerers, I'm guessing.

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

Since we're clearly attempting to encompass all ILM threads ever here, I can't work out whether Lex's observation is racist (well durr) or sexist (Beyonce dresses far more overtly sexually than Meg therefore it's okay to leer over her).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:10 (nineteen years ago)

It's because Beyonce is not a real musician and is just there to be looked at as is the case with all "pop tarts."

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

Since we're clearly attempting to encompass all ILM threads ever here

I've read a description somewhere about some band that said: "Electro-house meets minimal techno in a sorta grimy-dubstep way, with some R&B/hip-hop grooves, an acid-house/garagey-rock energy and a baile-funk balance".

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

And all that peppered with a voice somewhere between dancehall toasting and country twang, all made with a teenpop bent.

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

Hur hur hur.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know - Lex is it okay to leer over the Pipettes? What about Xtina? I need to calculate how creepy I am.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

And what if I leer over MIA or Linday Lohan?

― Ricardo (jaxxalude), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:28 (nineteen years ago)

"Electro-house meets minimal techno in a sorta grimy-dubstep way, with some R&B/hip-hop grooves, an acid-house/garagey-rock energy and a baile-funk balance".

tigarah

i've changed my mind about the leering, you're all creepy and wrong and should leer over justin timberlake instead. (or jc.)

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

"you are all creepy and wrong and should join teh gays"

― stop moving. (cis), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

something off there.

― stop moving. (cis), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

yes!

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

That description sorts of suits Tigarah because if ever there was an act designed by alien robots to appeal to ILX hiveminders it was Tigarah.

(I actually think she's a bit rub really)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

Tigarah would be great if she didn't only have one good song.

The thing about leering over Meg White is that you get the sense that she wouldn't know what to do about it, she'd be baffled and out-of-her-depth and secretly a little creeped out by random admirers; and that almost seems to be the appeal? Whereas leering over, e.g. Karen O, you feel like she could take it, and if she thought you were being inappropriate she'd shoot you down/knee you in the balls/w'evs. Whereas Beyonce's persona is more like "of course you're lusting over me, who wouldn't-- you get one inch closer than that and my people will have you killed."

― stop moving. (cis), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

Creep is something I do not something I am [/unconvincing]

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

Creep is something I do not, something I am [/unconvincing]
-- Konal Doddz (stevem7...) (webmail), Today 3:47 PM. (later) (link)

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:49 (nineteen years ago)

waht

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

yeh. huh?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:55 (nineteen years ago)

cis otm!

tigarah has two good songs, there's also the 'thoughtful' ballad about how "things'll never change, life on the streets will always be the same" which is especially amazing coming from a woman who said she'd never visit the favelas because they were too rough

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:56 (nineteen years ago)

if you're not from the favelas, don't go to the favelas.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:57 (nineteen years ago)

she's a political science graduate too!

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

*storms in angrily about 3 days too late bearing a gigantic mace with the single word Mansun engraved on the side*

*storms out*

Actually, Blur were frickin' fantastic and in 13 released one of my favourite ever albums. But it's fashionable to despise them so I'll just

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 22:14 (nineteen years ago)

It's always fashionable to despise an annoying twat like Damon, lil' newbie.

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ The Unstoppable Troll Machine (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Thursday, 27 July 2006 03:58 (nineteen years ago)

>The White Stripes are more of an overt art statement than a band as such<

the overt art statement seems to be able to kick ass live, with nothing more than drums, guitar, a few pedals, and a voice.

― nicky lo-fi (nicky lo-fi), Thursday, 27 July 2006 05:51 (nineteen years ago)

white stripes nothing. terrible, terrible band.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Thursday, 27 July 2006 07:32 (nineteen years ago)

i love 'em i do

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 27 July 2006 08:52 (nineteen years ago)

eight months pass...

NEW YORK (AP) -- Former Spice Girl Melanie Brown has given birth to a daughter in California, her publicist said Tuesday.

The baby, who weighs 5 pounds, 4 ounces, was born just after midnight Tuesday at St. John's hospital in Santa Monica, said Nadine Bibi in an e-mail.

"Baby is completely healthy with a good head of hair. Mother and baby are now resting," the statement said. "No name has been decided on as yet, and (she) is purely known as Baby Brown!"

Brown has said ex-boyfriend Eddie Murphy is the father. The 46-year-old "Dreamgirls" star has said he's not sure. Brown has said there's "absolutely no question that Eddie is the father."

The 31-year-old Brown, known as Scary Spice when she was in the megahit group of the '90s, has an 8-year-old daughter, Phoenix Chi, from her marriage to Jimmy Gulzar.

Gulzar married Brown in 1998 after he had performed on a Spice Girls tour. Their 15-month marriage ended in divorce in 2000.

Murphy's wife, Nicole, filed for divorce in 2005, citing irreconcilable differences. The couple were married in 1993 and have five children.

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 20:53 (nineteen years ago)

a) What's the best Spice Girls song?

"Viva Forever"

b) Name the Britpop tracks, if any, you consider superior to it.

About 500 songs, at least. Britpop, after all, was the best thing to happen to music since New Romantics.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 21:00 (nineteen years ago)

Haha: "Baby's got that good hair," said the publicist.

― nabisco, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 21:01 (nineteen years ago)

a) 2 become 1

― s1ocki, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

i just lost my shit re-reading that Jim Bowen/Bullseye stuff.

but revival not worth Geirbot

― blueski, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:19 (nineteen years ago)

It may seem weird, but Spice Girls sort of couldn't have happened without Britpop. I mean, they were all about songs. Good old-fashioned songs with verse and chorus, some of them quite good even. Britpop was what paved the way for those to dominate the charts again, and Spice Girls picked up on the same thing, just getting rid of the guitars, the British Nationalist history-conscious thinking and singer-songwriter approach of Britpop.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 23:58 (nineteen years ago)

a. The one that goes "I'm giving you everything all the joy [something] yes I swear."

b. Um, how are the Spice Girls not Britpop?

― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:48 (nineteen years ago)

Les Filles Spice's best tune: "Stop."

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:53 (nineteen years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Britannia

^ HAHAHAHA LOL

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:28 (nineteen years ago)

Similar terms for Wales and Scotland, "Cool Cymru" and "Cool Caledonia" respectively, were also coined, but never gained any real popular currency.

― blueski, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

The best song is "If You Can't Dance," a b-side to Wannabe in which they try to rap - the lyrics are something like "whenever I go out, wherever I may be, never is a real Keanu but a dweeb looking at me, and even if I do score he's a loser on the dance floor.." It also, I believe, includes "even as his eyes met mine, his slamming grooves were out of time. can't you just feel the groove? why don't you mooove?". And better than this was Kenickie screaming about PVC, Shampoo getting into Trouble, and most definitely every second on Sleeper's the It Girl, especially Factor 41.

― Finefinemusic, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

...might be slamming moves, not grooves. Even Spice Girl lyrics weren't <i>that</i> lazy.

― Finefinemusic, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

my penis is a britpop track and it is superior to all

― wesley useche, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:04 (nineteen years ago)

SPICE GIRLS LYRICS

"If You Can't Dance"

If you can't dance, if you can't dance
If you can't dance, if you can't dance, if you can't dance to this you can't do
Nothing for me baby.
If you can't dance, if you can't dance
If you can't dance, if you can't dance, if you can't dance to this you can't do
Nothing for me baby.
Now we got the flavour, the bad behaviour
The rhythm the melody, the juice for you to savour,
Rockin and vibin somebody is jivin,
You need to take a tip, sort it out,
Get a grip whenever I go out wherever it may be.
There never is a keanu but a dweeb lookin
At me but then even if I did score
He's a loser on the dance floor,
Take a deep breath count 1 2 3.
Even when his eyes met mine his
Slamming moves were out of time.
Can't you just feel the groove why don't
You move it's easy can't you see take
My hands and dance with me.
If you can't dance, if you can't dance
If you can't dance, if you can't dance, if you can't dance to this you can't do
Nothing for me baby.
If you can't dance, if you can't dance
If you can't dance, if you can't dance, if you can't dance to this you can't do
Nothing for me baby.

[Spanish Rap]

If you can't dance, if you can't dance
If you can't dance, if you can't dance
If you can't dance to this you can't do
Nothing for me baby.
If you can't dance, if you can't dance
If you can't dance, if you can't dance
If you can't dance to this you can't do
Nothing for me baby.

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:07 (nineteen years ago)

It's unreasonable to ask a web designer not to use HTML, btw.

Thank you Catsup! See, everything I "mad freestyled out" was off the top of my head. Because I was once a 14 year old girl. Does everyone know that Wannabe knocked Gary Barlow's debut single Forever Love off the #1 single chart? A sad day. A SHITTY song in retrospect, oh God. And I had it imported to Canada..

― Finefinemusic, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:09 (nineteen years ago)

a)say you'll be there
b)ummm.....

― Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:35 (nineteen years ago)

Does everyone know that Wannabe knocked Gary Barlow's debut single Forever Love off the #1 single chart?

Hardly the worst crime commited by that song...

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 5 April 2007 01:21 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

Wow, BRITPOP OPINIONZ threads were great before LJ turned up.

― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 08:29 (eighteen years ago)

Britpop killed by Knebworth, Chris Evans and Princess Diana, not in that order.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 08:40 (eighteen years ago)

The spirit of Britpop still lives on today in Travis, Coldplay and Keane. And also to some extent in Franz Ferdinand and similar bands.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 09:27 (eighteen years ago)

(not to mention Kaiser Chiefs)

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 09:27 (eighteen years ago)

No.

― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 09:28 (eighteen years ago)

i just lost my shit re-reading that Jim Bowen/Bullseye stuff.

but revival not worth Geirbot

― blueski, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 10:07 (eighteen years ago)

2006: ILM's peak.

― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 10:08 (eighteen years ago)

The spirit of Diana lives on in TV's Konnie Huq.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 10:13 (eighteen years ago)

Except Konnie Huq is fit.

― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 10:20 (eighteen years ago)

For what purpose?

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 10:25 (eighteen years ago)

Don't make me get all explicit lyrics on here.

― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 4 July 2007 10:27 (eighteen years ago)

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