best examples of sophomore records blowing the debut out of the water

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sorry if this has been done to death already

the most obvious example for me is 'spiderland'.

also, 'being there'

what else

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:04 (nineteen years ago)

Could Post by Bjork actually be better than Debut (which was already really great)? I think it is.

― Marty Innerlogic (marty innerlogic), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:06 (nineteen years ago)

i prefer debut, personally. but obviously love them both

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:09 (nineteen years ago)

It is Hello I Must Be Going by Phil Collins. Divest of its predecessor Face The Value with its irrit tendency towards left-wing avant-garde noise-making such as I Missed Her Again, this second solo outing reveals him as a true master of melodics, with beautiful rhapsodies of song such as "Don't Leave Me Wife" and "Why I Pay You To Have Another Men," but his pinnacle of this record arrives with the number one single "You Calgary Love" which is better than all amelodic, overrate Motown style songs of all times!

― Comstock Carabineri (nostudium), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:12 (nineteen years ago)

what's collins writing songs about canada for

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:13 (nineteen years ago)

Teardrop Explodes - Wilder

― Jez (Jez), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:14 (nineteen years ago)

Love - Da Capo

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:17 (nineteen years ago)

The Bends
Head Over Heels

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

Nevermind

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

'post' is almost infinitely superior to 'debut'.

love/hate - wasted in america > blackout in the red room
led zeppelin - II > I
faith no more - introduce yourself > we care a lot
sleepytime gorilla museum - of natural history >> grand opening and closing
system of a down - toxicity > self-titled
dead kennedys - plastic surgery disasters > fresh fruit

― mister the guanoman (mister the guanoman), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:20 (nineteen years ago)

Nevermind

commercially and in terms of critical consensus, certainly. I personally still think bleach is better.

― mister the guanoman (mister the guanoman), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:21 (nineteen years ago)

led zeppelin - II > I

It might be better (arguable) but it doesn't exactly "blow it out the water" does it?

― Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:23 (nineteen years ago)

Low End Theory
The Infamous
Liquid Swords

― ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:23 (nineteen years ago)

xpost:

depends how you define 'blow out of the water'. musically I see it as much better than the first, and didn't it represent something of a step up in acclaim and success? the lead track is their second-biggest track of all time.

― mister the guanoman (mister the guanoman), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:24 (nineteen years ago)

Nico, Marble Index

― Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:26 (nineteen years ago)

To be honest, it happens so often, it puts to the lie the old "you have 20 years to write your debut, and 18 months to record your second"

I'm out. (In a "Dragon's Den" style)

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:27 (nineteen years ago)

Zombies, Odessey and Oracle

― Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:28 (nineteen years ago)

Transformer

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:28 (nineteen years ago)

Blur - Modern Life Is Rubbish > Leisure

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:28 (nineteen years ago)

Astral Weeks

― Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:28 (nineteen years ago)

Come And Get It

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:29 (nineteen years ago)

Angels With Dirty Faces (Sugababes)

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:30 (nineteen years ago)

mclusky do dallas

― a.b. (alanbanana), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:45 (nineteen years ago)

coloma - finery

― electric sound of jim [and why not] (electricsound), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:49 (nineteen years ago)

― Bumblepuppy (Horbgorbling Slubberdegullion), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

"The 5000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion"

― Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:52 (nineteen years ago)

xposts - I'd have Debut and Post as equally great in the final analysis (I've always preferred Debut personally too).

Joni Mitchell - Song To A Seagull > Clouds
Ellen Allien - Stadtkind > Berlinette

― dance dance counter-revolution (fandango), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:52 (nineteen years ago)

"What We Did On Our Holidays"

― Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:53 (nineteen years ago)

Countdown to Ecstacy

― sonofstan (sonofstan), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:53 (nineteen years ago)

dammit... my > are mixed up reverse! reverse!

>:(

― dance dance counter-revolution (fandango), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:54 (nineteen years ago)

absolutely > one step beyond it takes a nation of millions >> yo bum rush the show

― mark e (mark e), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 11:59 (nineteen years ago)

mclusky, tribe, lou reed otm

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

bad formatting. soz. back to using Lynx web browser.

― mark e (mark e), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

Reel to Real Cacophony

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:06 (nineteen years ago)

Shaq-Fu: Da Return

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:07 (nineteen years ago)

Rock Bottom

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:09 (nineteen years ago)

Metal Box

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:09 (nineteen years ago)

basically 'every band whose second record was better than their first', ie LOTS OF FRIGGIN BANDS.

'cupid & psyche 85'

― EARLY-90S MAN (Enrique), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:13 (nineteen years ago)

Rock Bottom

OTM

― Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:15 (nineteen years ago)

trying to think of some hip-hop ones

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:16 (nineteen years ago)

It Takes a Nation of Millions

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:17 (nineteen years ago)

hahhaha. yes, andy k

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:18 (nineteen years ago)

More Songs About Buildings & Food
Candy-O
Rooms On Fire
Before Hollywood

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:18 (nineteen years ago)

to me the "blowing out of the water" thing means a sense of omg shock has to be present - kind of "WOW i had no idea they were capable of THAT". so eg justin timberlake wouldn't count because although FS/LS is much much better than justified, it's not a level which shocked me coming from justin. bjork certainly doesn't count.

it's not a sophomore album but the knife totally fit this for me - deep cuts was a collection of decent-to-good songs which somehow made for a v underwhelming album, but silent Shout is quite astonishing as an album.

xtina from whatever her first album was called to stripped, as well. i guess destiny's child as well though i haven't actually heard their debut all the way through.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:23 (nineteen years ago)

Van der Graaf Generator!

― Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

Randy Newman: 12 Songs
Neil Young: Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere
Bob Dylan: The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan
Radiohead: The Bends
Psychedelic Furs: Talk Talk Talk

― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:29 (nineteen years ago)

to me the "blowing out of the water" thing means a sense of omg shock has to be present - kind of "WOW i had no idea they were capable of THAT"... bjork certainly doesn't count.

given that (rather good) definition, bjork is the best example thus far as far as I'm concerned. I didn't like anything off of 'debut' at the time, and only one or two tracks are tolerable now. but I happened to hear 'post' and it amazed me pretty much from start to finish. it turned me around 100% from a bjork-hater to a bjork-lover.

although not in the physical sense. sadly.

― mister the guanoman (mister the guanoman), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:34 (nineteen years ago)

i don't think 'post' is a massive leap forward. it is better.

― EARLY-90S MAN (Enrique), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:37 (nineteen years ago)

i think debut is better! i love both but debut has 'come to me' and 'human behaviour' => WINS

homogenic is her most masterful, er, masterwork though

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:39 (nineteen years ago)

I think it's the abandoning of the already dated handbaggy club cheese that elevates it far beyond 'debut'.

'homogenic' is excellent, but I return to 'post' and 'medulla' most often.

― mister the guanoman (mister the guanoman), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:40 (nineteen years ago)

for me, 'post' is different sounding, which is welcome. but ultimately marginally weaker that the stunning 'debut'.

for me 'debut' and 'homogenic' tie as the best two. can't really pick between those two

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:41 (nineteen years ago)

i love handbaggy club cheese though! and bjork did it very well. i admire medúlla but never return to it. post does have 'isobel' on it though. xp

(btw bjork is CURRENTLY WORKING WITH TIMBALAND!!!)

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:42 (nineteen years ago)

I think it's the abandoning of the already dated handbaggy club cheese that elevates it far beyond 'debut'.

at this point it's ALL dated so pick ur poison! agree 'debut' lacks bottom, figuratively.

wots 'joga' on? i think i like that one best.

― EARLY-90S MAN (Enrique), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:45 (nineteen years ago)

no, I mean it even sounded dated at the time.

― mister the guanoman (mister the guanoman), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:45 (nineteen years ago)

joga's on homogenic

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

'jóga' is my favourite ever bjork track! sometimes i love 'bachelorette' equally.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:50 (nineteen years ago)

What about "Sod Off" then?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:52 (nineteen years ago)

beastie boys - paul's boutique

― matagouri (matagouri), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

'sod off' is amazing as well, yes

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

xpost -- I've been dying to post that here Lex :D

I just hope the end result isn't underwhelming, or at least some kind of proper collaboration. Debut has wiggly bottom.

― dance dance counter-revolution (fandango), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:00 (nineteen years ago)

'Silent shout' is not The Knife's sophomore ('The Knife' counts as an album surely) altho yeh it was many people's first experience of them.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

By Lex's definition, the only example i can think of is The Underground Lovers.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

'big time sensuality' is kinda m people (though in a good way), let's face it.

― EARLY-90S MAN (Enrique), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

sorry ignore that, can't read (xpost x2)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

I just hope the end result isn't underwhelming, or at least some kind of proper collaboration. Debut has wiggly bottom.

timbaland says what they've done is amazing, which may mean...anything really! it's a pity bjork and missy never collaborated, for two artists who praised each other to the skies at any chance they got when both were at their peak. apart from the 'jóga' sample on the 'hit 'em wit da hee' rmx.

'big time sensuality' is kinda m people (though in a good way), let's face it.

yes! i love it! ah handbag house.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:05 (nineteen years ago)

Steve McQueen
Bummed
Power, Corruption & Lies
Abandoned Luncheonette
Isn't Anything

― hank (hank s), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

Steve McQueen - hmmmmmmmm, not sure
Bummed - no

― Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:21 (nineteen years ago)

Steve McQueen trumps Swoon by a country mile, if only because the sophomore LP does not feature Paddy McAloon singing "bo-bee" over and over...

― hank (hank s), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:28 (nineteen years ago)

Cheap Thrills > Big Brother and the Holding Company
Ride The Lightning > Kill 'em All

― M. Agony Von Bontee (M. Agony Von Bontee), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

Neither Fish Nor Flesh.

― Buffalo Stan (Buffalo Stan), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

Steve McQueen trumps Swoon by a country mile, if only because the sophomore LP does not feature Paddy McAloon singing "bo-bee" over and over...

Please tell don't me that you disapprove of Paddy McAloon singing "bo-bee" over and over! I despair!

― Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

Bandwagonesque

xpost: damn, now I can't get "I Couldn't Bear To Be Special" out of my head!

― hank (hank s), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:41 (nineteen years ago)

hahah ride the lightning yes!

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

me to thread, MANSUN to thread, WOT NO MBV, and of course the Fiery Furnaces.

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

MBV already mentioned

― hank (hank s), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

replace MBV with The Electric Soft Parade, retire ten paces, and put fingers in ears.

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

Broken Social Scene. Unfortunately, the third album blew them right back into the water.

― darin (darin), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

Espers II

― peter x (bucksbreeze), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 19:14 (nineteen years ago)

DEATH CERTIFICATE.

― matt the queeg (veal), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 19:15 (nineteen years ago)

ooh i don't know about death certificate.

US Maple - Sang Phat Editor

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

Mr. Bungle Disco Volante

― a naked Kraken annoying Times Square tourists with an acoustic guitar (nickalici, Tuesday, 26 September 2006 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

They might as well have been a completely different band.

― a naked Kraken annoying Times Square tourists with an acoustic guitar (nickalici, Tuesday, 26 September 2006 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

ATCQ, Radiohead, Bjork and Psychadelic Furs are all OTM.

― Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 19:56 (nineteen years ago)

Rum, Sodomy & the Lash perhaps.

― The Bearnaise-Stain Bears (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 19:59 (nineteen years ago)

Mr. Bungle Disco Volante
They might as well have been a completely different band.

-- a naked Kraken annoying Times Square tourists with an acoustic guitar (crucial.bonu...), September 26th, 2006 3:54 PM. (nickalicious) (later)

YES

― The Bearnaise-Stain Bears (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 20:01 (nineteen years ago)

DV! christ...I can't believe I didn't think of that. it's only pretty much the greatest album ever made. durrr.

― mister the guanoman (mister the guanoman), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 20:03 (nineteen years ago)

Olivelawn with "Sophomore Jinx!" is a textbook example. Also: Polvo's "Today's Active Lifestyles"; JSBX "Extra Width!"; Heavy Vegetables "Freesbie"; Nation Of Ulysses "Play Pretty for Baby"; Tortoise "Millions Now Living Will Never Die"; Bästard "Radiant, Discharged, Crossed-Off"; Boredoms "Soul Discharge '99"; Jawbox second whatever it was called; Dazzling Killmen "Face of Collapse", the list goes on...

System of a Down, My Bloody Valentine, Public Enemy, McLusky and Mr Bungle are OTM.

― Pom (pom), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 20:46 (nineteen years ago)

"Trepass" by Genesis. Although they got even a lot better later on.

Also, "Sheet Music" by 10cc.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 20:51 (nineteen years ago)

You're Living All Over Me

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 20:53 (nineteen years ago)

to me the "blowing out of the water" thing means a sense of omg shock has to be present - kind of "WOW i had no idea they were capable of THAT".

Sounds like a perfect description of what Mansun tried to do on "Six". They didn't succeed though.

Personally I'd like to add "(What's The Story) Morning Glory". I know lots of people prefer the debut, but you cannot argue with the fact that those two albums are very different, and that they did a lot of stuff on the second album that was musically rather far from anything on the debut.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 20:54 (nineteen years ago)

Fugees

― PappaWheelie has no answers to any question that requires actual thought (PappaW, Tuesday, 26 September 2006 20:55 (nineteen years ago)

superchunk
tori amos
m83
sleater-kinney?

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 20:58 (nineteen years ago)

xpost - yeah it really was their Metal Machine Music that one XD

― dance dance counter-revolution (fandango), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 21:23 (nineteen years ago)

Sophomore Unjinx: Groups Whose Best Album Was Their Second

― musically (musically), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 21:42 (nineteen years ago)

Gnarls Barkley, I hope (not that their debut's bad, just slightly meh).

― chap who would dare to contain two ingredients. Tea and bags. (chap), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 21:45 (nineteen years ago)

geir, i snarl.

Suede, anyone?

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 21:45 (nineteen years ago)

(Oasis)... did a lot of stuff on the second album that was musically rather far from anything on the debut.

Haha, when did Oasis ever do anything that was musically rather far from their one idea?

― chap who would dare to contain two ingredients. Tea and bags. (chap), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 21:59 (nineteen years ago)

Joanna Newsom YS - granted she had help from the best in the business - but fucking wooooow

― Space Is the Place (Space Is the Place), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:10 (nineteen years ago)

Haha, when did Oasis ever do anything that was musically rather far from their one idea?

"Morning Glory" contains a lot of music that is musically very far from the "Definitely Maybe" musical idea constituting loud guitars, fast rock'n'roll songs and screaming Johnny Lydon-esque vocals.

"Morning Glory" was when they started attempting to sound like the one band they had been comparing themselves to already around their completely non-Beatlesque sounding debut album.

See also Franz Ferdinand: First album: Establishing themselves as a rather fast past-punk act. Second album: Trying out slower and more sophisticated stuff and a more stylistically varied approach than the debut.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:32 (nineteen years ago)

Pink Flag --> Chairs Missing

Three Imaginary Boys --> Seventeen Seconds

Unknown Pleasures --> Closer

― Stephen Bush (Stephen B.), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:59 (nineteen years ago)

Symphonies of Sickness over Reek of Putrefaction by a long ways.

And the Polvo mention is definitely wrong, even if TAL is the best.

― lrsn (larssen), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 23:30 (nineteen years ago)

The Stooges-Fun House

Refused-The Shape of Punk to Come

Mastodon-Leviathan

Wire-Chairs Missing

Liars-They Were Wrong So We Drowned

Drive Like Jehu-Yank Crime

Ghostface Killah-Supreme Clientele

Deftones-Around the Fur

Ho!1a.

― brightscreamer (brightscreamer), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 23:38 (nineteen years ago)

animal collective - danse manatee
ol' dirty bastard - nigga please
minutemen? kinda

radiohead and public enemy thirded or fourthed

― Kevin Mulllligan (Reebock Mcentire), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:10 (nineteen years ago)

raincoats-odyshape
streets-grand don't come for free
swell maps-jane from...

― Kevin Mulllligan (Reebock Mcentire), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:14 (nineteen years ago)

majestic 'wake up come out and play'
slowdive 'souvlaki'
architecture in helsinki 'in case we die'

― keyth (keyth), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:19 (nineteen years ago)

Also on the shortlist:

Aluminum Group (Wonder Boy > Plano)

Antony and the Johnsons (self-titled > I Am A Bird Now)

Aqsak Maboul (Onze Danses Pour Combattre La Migraine > Un Peu de L'ame des Bandits)

The Divine Comedy (Fanfare for the Comic Muse > Liberation)

Penguin Cafe Orchestra (Music from the Penguin Cafe > Penguin Cafe Orchestra)

Stina Nordenstam (Memories of a Color > And She Closed Her Eyes)

Trenchmouth (Construction of New Action > Inside the Future)

Willard Grant Conspiracy (3AM at Fortune Otto's > Flying Low)

― Myke. (Myke Weiskopf), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:37 (nineteen years ago)

Im'a disagree about the Raincoats: "Odyshape" strikes me as somewhat thrown together. It has lots of interesting ideas, but they rarely seem to gel; the debut was sloppy, too, but at least was catchier.

Oh, that reminds me: "Return of the Giant Slits" >>> "Cut"

― Bumblepuppy (Horbgorbling Slubberdegullion), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:45 (nineteen years ago)

kelly clarkson - breakaway
elvis costello - this year's model

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:45 (nineteen years ago)

Spoon's "Series of Sneaks" was miles better than "Telephono."

― Binjominia (Brilhante), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:46 (nineteen years ago)

Gish --> Siamese Dream

Dry --> Rid of Me

Tigermilk --> If You're Feeling Sinister

Something About Airplanes --> We Have the Facts and We're Voting Yes

Mirror --> Echoes

― Stephen Bush (Stephen B.), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 02:32 (nineteen years ago)

Black Heat - NO TIME TO BURN
Dwight Twilley - TWILLEY DON'T MIND
War - ALL DAY MUSIC
Isaac Hayes - HOT BUTTERED SOUL

― Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 04:26 (nineteen years ago)

Have any of you people even listened to Pink Flag lately? In what ocean does Chairs Missing blow it out of the water? I'm not saying it's not better, but christ!

And to represent the letter "B" alongside BSS and the Beasties, I nominate Built To Spill.

― cosmo vitelli (cosmo vitelli), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 05:07 (nineteen years ago)

sleepytime gorilla museum - of natural history >> grand opening and closing

they had a live album in between those. plus, Grand Opening is amazing.

this thread is mostly missing the original point, that the 2nd album has to be a huge quantum leap that nobody expected - and the 1st had to kind of suck. Paul's Boutique and Metal Box are the only things suggested that I think qualify. I guess ISB qualifies also.

― sleeve version 2.0 (sleeve testing), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 05:28 (nineteen years ago)

Spacemen 3 - The Perfect Prescription

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 05:39 (nineteen years ago)

xpost:

'grand opening' is amazing, but 'of natural history' is still leaps and bounds ahead. I listened to 'grand opening' over and over and was actually reluctant to get the follow-up because of my unreasonably high expectations, but it totally floored me. it's absolute genius - essentially one segmented song, simultaneously more engaging and more bizarre, greater rythmic complexity, less repetitive, nils and carla's voices are vastly improved and more dominant...the first two songs alone destroy the debut.

and I don't count the live album. I prefer to think it didn't happen, as it's absolutely godawful. badly recorded stopgap crap chockful of pointless skits. you're better off with one of the many bootlegs.

― mister the guanoman (mister the guanoman), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 05:44 (nineteen years ago)

dude have you seen them live lately? fucking amazing. I thought they could never replace the orig drummer (Frank?) or Mo but somehow they've gotten even better.

I agree that the live album sucks.

― sleeve version 2.0 (sleeve testing), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 05:57 (nineteen years ago)

I agree wholeheartedly with the Bjork example: Debut has stunning songs, but Post has that AND a stunning new/old sound to match.
I disagree vehemently with the Penguin Cafe Orchestra example: I think their first album is a one-of-a-kind masterpiece, and the second is no more than the embryonical draft for greater things that were to follow - in fact I regard it as their weakest.

― Max Blazevic (kitaj), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 09:42 (nineteen years ago)

A lot of these seem to boil down to "the second album is better than the first".

I agree with Simple Minds and Stina Nordenstam though, definitely.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 09:51 (nineteen years ago)

refused, yes

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 09:53 (nineteen years ago)

a lot of these examples fail to convince because the artists in question had these exact OMG moments on later albums - for example i'd say tori amos's quantum leap forward wasn't under the pink but boys for pele. pj harvey's was either to bring you my love or is this desire? but it certainly wasn't rid of me.

i've never heard stina nordenstam's debut! what's it like? each of her albums is so different.

i don't like any radiohead album but they're probably as good a fit as you're going to get if you have bad enough taste to be into what they do.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 10:12 (nineteen years ago)

Lex, Stina's debut is kind of like a tamer, jazzier version of And She Closed Her Eyes - only a bare handful of the tracks have those eerie dark overtones that make And She Closed Her Eyes so compelling despite its superficial prettiness, and at times the songs can be a bit cloying. I would never have thought she was a major talent based on that album, although it's enjoyable if you already like her.

Actually I think Rid of Me possibly is PJ Harvey's quantum leap, or at least it is as much as any of her subsequent albums.

Tori's second, third and fourth albums were more like quantum leaps sideways frome each album that preceded them - again just a case of natural artistic development.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 10:19 (nineteen years ago)

Shoso Strip > Muzai Moratorium (Shiina Ringo)
69/96 > The First Question Award (Cornelius)
Pan-da > Astro (The Aprils)

― Badrock Example (Barima), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 10:29 (nineteen years ago)

i guess another way of looking at my criteria for this question would be ambition - a conscious decision to make an album which takes natural artistic progression much further than what would have been expected, and which skirts artistic folly quite narrowly, the possibility of falling flat on its face (haha saturnz return could well have fitted except it WAS artistic folly!). rid of me seems to take the persona and sound established on dry and push it a little further into itself, flesh it out more; to bring you my love switches it up completely while still being recognisably pj harvey.

and she closed her eyes was the most recent stina album i heard, and i was like wtf-she-did-jazz-once! (though going back to everything since dynamite the echoes of it are still present. in retrospect. except not retrospect because ASCHE came first.) (the only stina album i haven't heard apart from the debut is people are strange: is this worth tracking down?)

(xp to tim)

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 10:31 (nineteen years ago)

Gnarls Barkley, I hope (not that their debut's bad, just slightly meh).

Plus it's way worse than Cee-Lo's two solo albums that preceded it.

I don't think Mouse on Mars's first album is bad, but their subsequent albums certainly went into a rather more unique and interesting direction.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 10:34 (nineteen years ago)

And count me in as Debut lover as well. It certainly has better songs than Post, and the dance beats are great (plus they're not actually nearly as cheesy as some other acts of the era, not that being cheesy is necessarily a bad thing).

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

And technically Debut was Björk's sophomore effort.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 10:37 (nineteen years ago)

"(the only stina album i haven't heard apart from the debut is people are strange: is this worth tracking down?)"

Eh, it depends on how much you love Stina. It's very claustrophobic and deeply untuneful (esp. for a covers album) but there's some interesting stuff on it. The single "I Dream of Jeannie" was great.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 11:30 (nineteen years ago)

oceanic > celestial

can't believe i only realised this one now

turn loose the swans > as the flower withers

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 12:26 (nineteen years ago)

Electric Warrior (if you don't count Tyrannosaurus Rex)

― 0xDOX0RNUTX0RX0RSDABITFIELDXOR^0xDEADBEEFDEADBEEF00001 (donut), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

I would submit:

Toni Halliday and Dean Garcia released a terrible, disappear-without-a-trace LP as State Of Play, regrouped, and subsequently issued the first Curve LP, Doppelganger, which blowed the first one clear out the water...

― hank (hank s), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

Psychedelic Furs: Talk Talk Talk
How does this blow the s/t debut out of the water? Both albums have the same two songs on them, the mid-tempo and the slow one.

I really object to these:
Unknown Pleasures --> Closer (yeah I prefer Closer, but c'mon it's the debut still stands - or swims)
Wire-Chairs Missing (more varied, not necessarily better)
raincoats-odyshape (lovely new sound and some of their best tracks, but the debut is a TIMELESS CLASSIC too)
elvis costello - this year's model (not even sure I like this one better--in any case it's the same songwriting, same band, same basic sound, slightly different production)

Spoon is OTM. I'd say Pavement too, but that's because I don't get their first album, others seem to think it's the best. PiL, yeah--good contrast to Wire. The first PiL album was good, but the second exposes its limitations. I never listen to "First Issue".

― These Robust Cookies (Robust Cookies), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

Oh and from a recent thread:
Art Bears - Winter Songs destroys Hopes and Fears

― These Robust Cookies (Robust Cookies), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

elvis costello - this year's model (not even sure I like this one better--in any case it's the same songwriting, same band, same basic sound, slightly different production)

Different band (i.e. not Huey Lewis' band Clover), Different sound (i.e. lack of 'country' influence), same producer (nick lowe)...

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:18 (nineteen years ago)

oops. Production does sound a bit different to me, though, even if producer is the same.

― These Robust Cookies (Robust Cookies), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

Brand Nubian - In God We Trust>>>One For All

― mucho (mucho), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 17:14 (nineteen years ago)

"Brand Nubian - In God We Trust>>>One For All "

Not in this universe or any other.

― 100% CHAMPS with a Yes! Attitude. (Austin, Still), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 17:28 (nineteen years ago)

I'd say that ATLiens revealed a side that Southernplayalistcadillacmuzik didn't even hint at, though.

― 100% CHAMPS with a Yes! Attitude. (Austin, Still), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 17:32 (nineteen years ago)

-- The champion of this thing has to be Freewheelin' Bob Dylan (which got mentioned once, sure, but it deserves mentioning again).

-- I didn't know Teenage Fanclub HAD a record before Bandwagonesque.

-- More classic rock department:
Surrealistic Pillow >> Jefferson Airplane Takes Off
Bayou Country >> Creedence Clearwater Revival
The Band >> Music From Big Pink (>> almost everything else)

-- Whiskeytown: Stranger's Almanac (vs. Faithless Street)
Cafe Tacuba: Re (vs. Cafe Tacuba)
Cowboy Junkies: Trinity Sessions (vs. Whites Off Earth Now)
The Roots: Do You Want More??!!!?! (vs. Organix)

-- Slightly more obscure division, but perhaps the biggest quality gap on the list: Juana Molina: Segundo (vs. Rara)

― Vornado (Vornado), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

nah re: the band. it's close-ish, but MfBP>s/t

― Lazy Comet (plsmith), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

In God We Trust, ATLiens, Siamese Dream seconded.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

If You're Feeling Sinister DENIED. Tigermilk is a hair better actually.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

Respectfully insist on superiority of The Band to Music From Big Pink.

Big Pink is a great album, but it sounded (and still sounds) like Dylan's back-up band. It has only one Levon Helm lead vocal (granted, it's THE great Levon Helm lead vocal), and lots and lots of Richard Manuel songs(I prefer him in smaller doses) and weakish Danko leads. The instrumentation on The Band was way more inventive and interesting; Big Pink relies too much on that trick with putting the organ through a wah-wah pedal or something.

I believe The Band created Americana. Personally, about half of my taste stems from The Band, which I probably listened to at least three times a week during my entire high school years. I listened to Big Pink every once in a while.

The sepia photos on the cover of the brown album beat the pandering crappy Dylan painting on the cover of Big Pink (but not necessarily the family picture inside).

Big Pink has "The Weight" and "Chest Fever" and "I Shall Be Released", some other good songs, and also some really forgettable songs. The Band has nothing as good as "The Weight", but its average track quality is amazing. The filler tracks (like "Look Out Cleveland" or "Rocking Chair") are wonderful on their own. Some of them ("Whispering Pines", "When You Awake") sound just like Big Pink.

― Vornado (Vornado), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:22 (nineteen years ago)

Oof don't agree with ATLiens. My least favorite pre-Stankonia album.

― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:28 (nineteen years ago)

I reappraised it a few years ago and went from really liking it to loving it. Which reminds me, I've done an about-face on Supreme Clientele the same way, I remember arguing against it here somewhere(maybe with you). Doesn't make this thread though.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:34 (nineteen years ago)

I donno, in some ways it does - Ghost's performance on SC puts it ahead of Ironman, although just knocking the albums together isn't quite the same.

― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:40 (nineteen years ago)

but really, ilx doesn't need another Wu Tang discussion!

Shawnna might make this thread, although I've softened on her new one a bit.

― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:44 (nineteen years ago)

Re Stina Nordenstam, I think People are Strange may be her best album behind And she closed her eyes - it's a damn sight more tuneful than Dynamite and adds more flesh to the raw, noisy core of that (at times unbearably austere) album. I think her versions of "I Dream of Jeannie" and "Reason to Believe" are two of her finest individual pieces, and I love the barely-there cover of "Love Hurts."

Re the first Penguin Cafe album, I don't care for it at all, although I agree with the assertion that the second album is effectively a stylistic warm-up for the ones that followed. (I think When in Rome's live performances actually trump their studio equivalents altogether, although Broadcasting from Home is their most roundly satisfying non-concert disc.)

― Myke. (Myke Weiskopf), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 20:32 (nineteen years ago)

Orbital 2
Rio

― turkey (turkey), Thursday, 28 September 2006 02:20 (nineteen years ago)

Twitch

― turkey (turkey), Thursday, 28 September 2006 02:25 (nineteen years ago)

replicas > tubeway army
heaven up here > crocodiles
taking tiger mountain (by strategy) > here come the warm jets
white light/white heat > velvet underground and nico
i also agree with the upthread assertion that supreme clientele > ironman

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 28 September 2006 07:12 (nineteen years ago)

He Poos Clouds

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 28 September 2006 07:36 (nineteen years ago)

Okay but you can't sanely tell people that Taking Tiger Mountain (refer to thread title). Or as far as I'm concerned WL/WH (although depending on who you talk to the first two Velvets records blow each other out of the water).

― cosmo vitelli (cosmo vitelli), Thursday, 28 September 2006 07:38 (nineteen years ago)

"Rio" is better than "Duran Duran", but stylistically not very different.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 28 September 2006 08:46 (nineteen years ago)

btw liars' first record is still my favourite by them

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Thursday, 28 September 2006 11:08 (nineteen years ago)

Their second record should have been called BLIARS as a pungent comment on warmongering gangster TONY BLIAR

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 28 September 2006 11:10 (nineteen years ago)

Do Eminem or Warren Zevon (first album rightly ignored in its day, surfaced later) count? (I mean, think about it. There must be plenty of other examples along the same lines. Oh yeah, Shania Twain, right?)

― xhuxk (xheddy), Thursday, 28 September 2006 11:28 (nineteen years ago)

Good God, yes, I'd quite forgotten about that first Eminem album...also wasn't the first Tim Buckley album (s/t?) a bit meh? (Goodbye and Hello was the second one, right?)

Also:
More Specials (much as I love the first one, the second one takes everything so much further out)

Was Fifth Dimension the Byrds' second album?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 28 September 2006 11:31 (nineteen years ago)

Cypress Hill - Black Sunday

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 28 September 2006 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

goodbye and hello is a step up from s/t, but it certainly doesn't put the first one to shame, which is a really sharp set of songs for mine

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Thursday, 28 September 2006 11:44 (nineteen years ago)

funhouse

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Thursday, 28 September 2006 12:41 (nineteen years ago)

doesn't put their first one to shame

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 28 September 2006 12:41 (nineteen years ago)

hah!

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Thursday, 28 September 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

Natural Bridge >>>> Starlite Walker

― Jamesy (SuzyCreemcheese), Thursday, 28 September 2006 12:50 (nineteen years ago)

Ohio Players; Pain > Observations In Time

― hank (hank s), Thursday, 28 September 2006 13:17 (nineteen years ago)

I'm out

― hank (hank s), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:25 (nineteen years ago)

wait, here's another one:

Squeeze, Cool For Cats

― hank (hank s), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:26 (nineteen years ago)

all this talk about ghostface and the wu and we forget the MOST OBVIOUS example of a sophomore record blowing away a debut record:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drf700/f744/f74464r9k0d.jpg > http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc500/c505/c50552xy94l.jpg

really, quite an omission y'all!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 28 September 2006 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

Dragnet by the Fall. Okay there I said it...

― George Lochinski (Destroy A. Monsters), Thursday, 28 September 2006 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

Squeeze had already proven on their debut single that they were capable of great things though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 28 September 2006 20:46 (nineteen years ago)

Shucks, I was hoping someone was going to bash Dragnet on here...

Other ideas
The Breeders - Last Splash
Kyuss - Blues for the Red Sun

― George Lochinski (Destroy A. Monsters), Thursday, 28 September 2006 22:12 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry, In God We Trust >>>> All For One. All For One is pretty spotty. Try To Do Me, Who Can Get Busy Like This Man and Dance To My Ministry can all get skipped.

― mucho (mucho), Thursday, 28 September 2006 22:47 (nineteen years ago)

COMETS ON FIRE --> FIELD RECORDINGS FROM THE SUN

― Stephen Bush (Stephen B.), Friday, 29 September 2006 01:47 (nineteen years ago)

peace sells... but who's buying

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Saturday, 30 September 2006 04:15 (nineteen years ago)

Severe Exposure >> The Pigeon is the Most Popular Bird

― lrsn (larssen), Saturday, 30 September 2006 04:26 (nineteen years ago)

xpost Eisbar

I said Liquid Swords near the top of the thread.

― ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Saturday, 30 September 2006 05:03 (nineteen years ago)

in recent weeks, i would say junior boys and the rapture

― Arnault (arc73hk), Saturday, 30 September 2006 06:41 (nineteen years ago)

I believe the new Rapture album is number 3.

― Apocalypse '07: Rodney Strikes Back (R. J. Greene), Saturday, 30 September 2006 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

Junior Boys OTM

― Stephen Bush (Stephen B.), Saturday, 30 September 2006 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah but there's nothing on "In God We Trust" that comes close to 'Concerto in X Minor' or 'Slow Down' or the title track. Puba's decision to leave is deeply felt (and yeah, I know he doesn't even rap on one of the tracks I mentioned. Shut up.)

― It's the lazy and immoral way to become super hip. (Austin, Still), Saturday, 30 September 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

And hey, thanks for bringing up "Dance to my Ministry." It's skippable, but deserves mention on the token hip-house track thread that I started last night.

― It's the lazy and immoral way to become super hip. (Austin, Still), Saturday, 30 September 2006 15:12 (nineteen years ago)

Can't agree on Ghostface or Ol' Dirty.

I don't really like the production on "Supreme Clientele" that much. And "Bigga Please" has way more skippable tracks than his first album does. Plus, the first one is one of the most comical rap albums ever. Plus it has "snakes" on it.

Anyway, my votes are -

The Clash - London Calling

K-OS - Joyful Rebellion

The White Stripes - De Stijl

Franz Ferdinand - You Could Have it So Much Better

Joanna Newsom - Ys.

Radiohead - The Bends

Offspring - Ignition

The Stands - Horse Fabulous

Ratatat - Classics

The Polyphonic Spree - Together We're Heavy

Sean Lennon - Friendly Fire

Another good thread would be bands whose first albums blow their second out of the water. I can think of a bunch of those too.

― Erock Lazron (Erock Zombie), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:52 (nineteen years ago)

I accidentally put "Bigga" instead of "Nigga", not because of racial tension, but merely because I have poor typing skills

― Erock Lazron (Erock Zombie), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:53 (nineteen years ago)

You also typed "London Calling" instead of "Give 'em Enough Rope."

― These Robust Cookies (Robust Cookies), Saturday, 30 September 2006 22:55 (nineteen years ago)

god dammit !

― Erock Lazron (Erock Zombie), Saturday, 30 September 2006 23:09 (nineteen years ago)

Alright, I can't back up "Give Em Enough Rope", the debut is better.

I pretty much only focus on the first two, so I forget the order of the albums. I mean, I don't really need to hear "Cut the Crap" again, right ?

― Erock Lazron (Erock Zombie), Saturday, 30 September 2006 23:13 (nineteen years ago)

And when I say "first two", I mean the self titled and "London Calling", despite the fact that L.C. is not in fact the second Clash record.

sigh

― Erock Lazron (Erock Zombie), Saturday, 30 September 2006 23:14 (nineteen years ago)

london calling would be a good case for 3rd albums blowing the 2nd album out of the water. as much as i love give em enough rope and all...

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Sunday, 1 October 2006 03:40 (nineteen years ago)

The White Stripes though? Their first album kicks! (though De Stijl is excellent as well)

― Destroy A. Monsters (Destroy A. Monsters), Monday, 2 October 2006 20:14 (nineteen years ago)

Paul McCartney: Ram

OK, everybody knew he was capable of great things from his Beatles years, but this solo effort was still miles and miles and miles better than the a-bunch-of-songs-i-wrote-and-recorded-in-a-rush-at-homea-album that was "McCartney".

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 2 October 2006 20:21 (nineteen years ago)

I find the first White Stripes to be a lot more monotonous than "De Stijl", which is actually a nicely layered record.

The first one never appealed to me as much for whatever reason

― Erock Lazron (Erock Zombie), Tuesday, 3 October 2006 03:23 (nineteen years ago)

Cat Power - Myra Lee
Indigo Girls - S/T
Grifters - One Sock Missing
Built To Spill - There's Nothing Wrong With Love

― nicky lo-fi (nicky lo-fi), Tuesday, 3 October 2006 05:32 (nineteen years ago)

Elliott Smith, surely?

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 3 October 2006 08:32 (nineteen years ago)

ha ha 'Bigga Please'

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 3 October 2006 08:42 (nineteen years ago)

elliott smith's records are all too consistently good for any of them to be 'blown out of the water'

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 3 October 2006 10:42 (nineteen years ago)

~~best~~ examples of sophomore records ~~blowing the debut out of the water~~

― eh (fandango), Tuesday, 3 October 2006 10:54 (nineteen years ago)

Ooh, "Roman Candle" vs. "Elliott Smith", tough call.

Best songs off "R.C." - Condor Ave, Kiwi Maddog 20/20, Last Call, Drive All Over Town, 1 or 2 of the "No Name"s, can't remember which ones are which

Best songs off "E.S." - Southern Belle, Single File, Coming Up Roses, Good to Go, The White Lady Loves You More, The Biggest Lie (one of my favourite E.S. songs)

So yeah, personally, I'd have to give this one to the second album, despite the fact that I dig the first one, though I personally think he got better with every record, with the possible exception of "X.O" vs. "Figure 8", but Figure 8 is a wicked album also.

If only we could've gotten his originally intended double disc version of "From a Basement...", with the second disc being instrumentals. That would've been siick.

― Erock Lazron (Erock Zombie), Tuesday, 3 October 2006 18:14 (nineteen years ago)

Elton John, rather obviously.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 3 October 2006 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

either/or is close to being my favourite album of time. the man doesn't strike a note wrong with that one in my view.

s/t and roman candle are both fantastic also, with the slight edge going to s/t.

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Wednesday, 4 October 2006 11:23 (nineteen years ago)

MEAT IS MURDER

― bham (bham), Wednesday, 4 October 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

hahaha
i like meat is murder too, but it's my least favourite nonetheless

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Wednesday, 4 October 2006 12:04 (nineteen years ago)

TRAVIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 October 2006 23:25 (nineteen years ago)

I think that's the most excited I've ever seen Geir.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Thursday, 5 October 2006 00:18 (nineteen years ago)

was 'the man who' the second one?

in that case, i'm glad i haven't heard the first one

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Thursday, 5 October 2006 10:50 (nineteen years ago)

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