Why does Europe love CocoRosie so much?

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We've realized they were really bad by album two, yet they keep dropping the "N" bomb and France and company eats it up likes it the freshest shit out there.

Europeans, care to explain this rather perplexing and distrubing phenomenon ?

― tornup_andhurt, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Not sure that fresh shit is more palatable than any other kind. Unpack?

― Pye Poudre, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 19:20 (seventeen years ago) link

We've realized they were really bad by album two, yet they keep dropping the "N" bomb and France and company eats it up likes it the freshest shit out there.

http://mmii.info/icons/Kaeptn_Blaubaer/other_O_RLY_.gif

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 19:28 (seventeen years ago) link

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen.jpg
those girls are le yoga flame for all time

― and what, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 19:30 (seventeen years ago) link

They do?

http://i10.tinypic.com/449gpz8.jpg

― StanM, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

N bomb?
I think their most recent single, "Rainbow Warriors" or whatever, is pretty great.

― Ben Boyerrr, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 19:54 (seventeen years ago) link

n00b

― rps, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 19:56 (seventeen years ago) link

what is cocorosie

― fies, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:02 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.no-13.com/vb/attachments/38Ep_cocorosie.jpg

they are from new york

― rps, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:04 (seventeen years ago) link

There's something fishy about one of them and some kind of weird racist/anti racist party thing I don't quite understand:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/25/AR2005082501818.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/25/AR2005082501818_2.html

― StanM, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:11 (seventeen years ago) link

their new album is the worst yet, a lot of crap rapping

I'm sorry, those girls can beat box, throw gang symbols, whatever but I'm not down with their ironic use of racial slurs

― tornup_andhurt, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Wait, I know the part about the "Kill Whitey" parties, but do they really drop the N bomb? On the album?

― matt2, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link

in their song "jesus loves me" they do but it's supposed to be ironic because the song is from the p.o.v. of a racist "good christian" or something

― rps, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:27 (seventeen years ago) link

im reasonably sure that cocorosie are not big in europe.

princess superstar is pretty big here; i dont know if she says nigger in her songs.

― fies, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:29 (seventeen years ago) link

It was on the first album.

They have a black backing group.

They have ... let's say they have some sort of "issues" or "a complicated relationship" with blackness. I have zero idea what its details are or how it works, but there is something going on there. They are "interested in" the notion of blackness, or "trying to engage with" the notion of blackness, or something, but god knows there's a thing there. A thing happening.

(Haha I went to see them once, with a big fan of theirs, and on the way down said "I think they have a vague and hard-to-interpret thing about black people," and she vehemently disagreed until after the show, at which point she was like "OMG okay yes." That said, though, I liked their performing live with a beatboxer, and would totally love to see more acts try that.)

― nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually to be completely honest I imagine a whole lot of acts have weird mental relationships with blackness / black people that are totally outside the scope of the music, so maybe it's better that Cocorosie at least kinda engage with theirs and occasionally score points for stuff like "sound good with beatboxer." Their issues here are hard to pin down, but I doubt they're more complicated than like "mild fetishization" and possibly a touch of "entranced by stereotypes."

― nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I definitely think it's hugely misleading to use the term "drop the N bomb"; that song "Jesus Loves Me" is clearly a song sung in character. Not trolling - I'm genuinely wondering if you think a non-black artist should never use the word "Nigger" under any circumstance?

― Ben Boyerrr, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link

----"entranced by stereotypes."----

hahaha

― tornup_andhurt, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Haha I think the only adequate approach to take here is that of Cocorosie's psychologist, who would say that while it's not prohibited for white singers to say "nigger," it is (shall we say) "very very interesting" that one would choose to put it in the song, then have to sing it to groups of people every third night for the next few years, then trade your drum loops for beatboxing from your black backing band (haha then get quoted in infamous "Kill Whitey" article), all leading up to a general chin-scratching steeple-fingered "very interesting, Cocorosie, you are very interested in black people."

― nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:54 (seventeen years ago) link

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/bramafear/James%20Bond/K1620-20Hugo2020Drax.jpg
"Ahh, Cocorosie..."

― deej, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 20:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh also when I saw Cocorosie one of them was wearing cornrows and a Sean John velour tracksuit.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 21:11 (seventeen years ago) link

any ironic homophobia in their music too or are we just not listening hard enough?

― blueski, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 21:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Which, you know, whatever, she just looked like Lady Sovereign or something, but doesn't exactly play against the "HMM VERY INTERESTING" factor.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link

i heard that some of sean john's clothing is actually pretty nice

― deej, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 21:22 (seventeen years ago) link

i do realize that made it sound like i think sean john is a person

― deej, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 21:23 (seventeen years ago) link

I downloaded the new one on o1nk because I saw it just upped and thought it might help boost the ratio but it hasn't and it's basically unlistenable.

― jim, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 21:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh my, just read the thing about the Kill Whitey party. Doesn't go to non-hipster hip-hop nights because there's too many black dudes is basically what she's saying, no?

― jim, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 21:41 (seventeen years ago) link

These girls have art school theory coming out the ass. They wouldn't be sincere if you asked for the time.

― fife, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/wayw/060908/
http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/wayw/060908/grills.jpg

― deej, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Rich white semotics victims adopting gangsta stereotypes. My worldview has been so shattered.

― fife, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 22:27 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't really know much about the whole controversial aspect of this band.

but i went to their myspace and listened.

and, in my non-professional opinion, ignoring any racial implications, this band sucks up a storm.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

CocoRosie are not loved in Europe, in my experience.

― caek, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 22:51 (seventeen years ago) link

is that a picture of cocorosie that deej posted? they look like a bunch of ding-dongs.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 22:51 (seventeen years ago) link

oh wait nevermind. that's some other ding dongs.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 22:53 (seventeen years ago) link

White message board posters casually equating "black" with "gangsta" = my worldview is sarcastically shattered too.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 22:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Fred Durst is a fucking faggot
He thinks he's black, but he's just gay
He cancelled a show cuz he sprained his ankle
He's also a fucking midget

[Chorus:]
You're not fucking black, you're just fucking gay (x2)
You're fucking gay

The guitarist wears a mask
To hide the cum stains on his face
They're the gayest band I've ever seen
And I've seen the Culture Club live

[Chorus]

Fred wears a hat to hide his baldness
I refuse to believe blacks think he's cool
I wish he'd beaten and raped by some black guy
And see if he still wants to be black

― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link

zing!

― s1ocki, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:05 (seventeen years ago) link

fucking xpost

― s1ocki, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:06 (seventeen years ago) link

White message board posters casually equating "black" with "gangsta" = my worldview is sarcastically shattered too.

Have they toyed with any non-gangsta black stereotypes?

― fife, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Do you think every black person wearing Sean John, cornrows, or beatboxing is a gang member?

― nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Make this go away.

― Pye Poudre, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:22 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean FFS, what "gangsta" stereotypes have they played with?

― nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:25 (seventeen years ago) link

doug e. fresh was a vice lord.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:27 (seventeen years ago) link

This dreadful racism stuff aside, I do like their choons. I dig the music box stylo.

― Drooone, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:27 (seventeen years ago) link

i'm just sad that the cocorosie controversy is taking away attention from the 50 foot tall michael jackson robot.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Wait who are these people? I am in Europe and I don't even know who they are </lex>

― Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:36 (seventeen years ago) link

I like how the hipsters on ilm interpret hipsters fascinated with blackness as morally worse than "mainstream"/middle class/working class fascination with same.

― vadx, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I like how the hipsters on ilm interpret hipsters fascinated with blackness as morally worse than "mainstream"/middle class/working class fascination with same.

― vadx, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I like how you're projecting

― deej, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 23:52 (seventeen years ago) link

No, not every person in real life, but those who submit themselves to mass media scrutiny use them as signals to establish a subcultural affiliation for social or commercial reasons. Doesn't a row of silver teeth as in the picture above have "gangsta" media associations? Doesn't it say "I'm a tough guy you don't wanna mess with?" CocoRosie are trying to dynamite that association or point up the shallowness of media identity by stripping the signals from their racial/cultural context. I think. If that is the case, my problem is that they're muddling the issue by not declaring their intent.

― fife, Thursday, 29 March 2007 00:08 (seventeen years ago) link

i like how everyone is afraid to take a stance for fear of ILM rejection, if I say i'm offended I'm being sensitive, if I say they're cool, then I like shitty music....hmmmm

such a catch 22
the right answer: fuck all y'alls I don't care

― tornup_andhurt, Thursday, 29 March 2007 00:12 (seventeen years ago) link

actually fuck all y'alls let's listen to LCD Soundsystem seems more appropriate

― tornup_andhurt, Thursday, 29 March 2007 00:13 (seventeen years ago) link

wouldn't muddling the issue make it a better point?

― vadx, Thursday, 29 March 2007 01:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I like Metallic Falcons.

― Manalishi, Thursday, 29 March 2007 01:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Am I gay for hearing similarities to The Microphones?

I've only heard one song, but that is what I got.

― redlightsting, Thursday, 29 March 2007 02:04 (seventeen years ago) link

fyi fife the girls with the grills aren't cocorosie

― Lingbert, Thursday, 29 March 2007 02:14 (seventeen years ago) link

There was a brainwashed article about CocoRosie's supposed flirtation with racism, but as far as I could tell it was just another one of the 3 billion bitchy daily posts written about rich kids in New York that seem to dominate the 'blogosphere'. I find it difficult to find any connection between this and real racist behaviour. White kids have been playing dress-ups as rappers for years, and it really only seems to signify a fascination with that scene. They know they can't pull it off without looking stupid so they turn it into some kind of a joke.

― badg, Thursday, 29 March 2007 03:23 (seventeen years ago) link

fyi fife the girls with the grills aren't cocorosie

Haha, ok, nevermind then. Maybe they're just goofball hipsters playing dress up.

― fife, Thursday, 29 March 2007 03:51 (seventeen years ago) link

"and, in my non-professional opinion, ignoring any racial implications, this band sucks up a storm"

so right.
and yes, in Italy Cocorosie are "popular", at least in indie terms.

― Marco Damiani, Thursday, 29 March 2007 06:36 (seventeen years ago) link

So... a bunch of students dressing up as Aunt Jemima = controversy!
A bunch of rich kids doing the same in a hip club = acceptable sociological phenomenon?

― StanM, Thursday, 29 March 2007 06:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I didn't think the rich kids in the club were dressing as Aunt Jemima.

― badg, Thursday, 29 March 2007 06:46 (seventeen years ago) link

ok, but it's almost comparable, isn't it?

― StanM, Thursday, 29 March 2007 06:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Not sure how this figures into their "issues"/"racial flirtations"/"fascinations" or whatever, but the press photo for the new album depicts both of the women sitting on a blanket looking bored, with some kind of clown makeup on, chewing bubblegum. One of them is pointing a remote control off into the distance and wears a see-through mesh shirt with her breast visible.

― Ben Boyerrr, Thursday, 29 March 2007 08:33 (seventeen years ago) link

On the cover, they're both dressed in, er, black.

http://www.tgrec.com/bands/album.php?id=400

― StanM, Thursday, 29 March 2007 08:40 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm European, and I've never heard of Cocorosie.

― Tuomas, Thursday, 29 March 2007 08:44 (seventeen years ago) link

No shit.

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 29 March 2007 09:16 (seventeen years ago) link

I think they're quite good here and there. I couldn't care less about any confused race (sounds more like culture to me) fetishism they might display outside of their music.

― blueski, Thursday, 29 March 2007 10:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Cute girly curly ginger ironic racist is far too cute to be hanging out with soulless dead eyed hipster racist.

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 29 March 2007 10:32 (seventeen years ago) link

the first song on the new album has a much more hip-hop-ish style than anything they've done before. in the beginning, they had much more of a whispery folk thing going on (one of them is dating devendra banhart if i remember correctly?). is their alleged "race fetishism" or whatever not possibly just a turn in a new musical direction, and they're consequently adopting the "appropriate" cultural signifiers? i mean, if we ignore for a second an ill-considered, one-line quote in the washington post, what makes this any different than lady sov, m.i.a., spank rock, girl talk, or something else similar? or are they all racists too?

― modestmickey, Thursday, 29 March 2007 10:59 (seventeen years ago) link

anyone watch that eternal children documentary? it's pretty good. you can watch the whole thing on youtube. cocodevendraantonyvashti action.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cw90TudSfXk

― Maria :D, Thursday, 29 March 2007 12:37 (seventeen years ago) link

oops, that was me scott. not maria.

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 12:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Dude, nobody has called them racist. Personally I just find it fascinating to watch them sort through all this very "interesting" stuff.

P.S. Sorry for misunderstanding, Fife -- I didn't realize you thought the picture was Cocorosie, and I was all ready to go off on the "gangsta" description, since most of the black culture they focus on is either fake-Billie-Holiday sweaty-old-south stuff or just modern boho/arty city material (e.g., their backing group is VERY boho/hipster NYC black artist types).

― nabisco, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:30 (seventeen years ago) link

i ONLY know them from watching that documentary on youtube and from watching that i never would have known about the black thing. i just thought they were twee folkers.

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Well yeah but Scott, as for the first part of my equation there, don't you think lots of freak-folk is interested in old-south stuff that winds up involving blackness? The popularity of the pinched-up fake-Holiday voice in itself seems like a thing there, and I think people wind up matching that to certain imagery that raises the issue. So I felt like it was a fairly natural and interesting leap for Cocorosie to start in on modern black-music signifiers, too.

― nabisco, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:46 (seventeen years ago) link

although yeah i get the billie holiday thing. devendra has that too. devendra does a great blues mama thing! he sounds like david sedaris doing billie holiday doing the oscar meyer theme song.

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:47 (seventeen years ago) link

holiday x-post!

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Hahaha. I also can't imagine Cocorosie recording that first album in Paris without having like a bunch of Josephine Baker imagery in their heads.

― nabisco, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:48 (seventeen years ago) link

devendra has often stated that one of his biggest inspirations is ella jenkins:

http://www.naesp.org/client_files/EllaJenkins.jpg

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:49 (seventeen years ago) link

sorry about the confusing grills post.

― deej, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:49 (seventeen years ago) link

that one cocorosie person definitely has a distinctive voice. in that indie cat power mirah (maybe? can't really remember what she sounds like) kinda way. you don't expect it to sound as strange as it often does. maybe not mirah. maybe i'm thinking of someone else.

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:51 (seventeen years ago) link

that was the first time i had heard/seen antony too watching that documentary. i don't know if i need any more antony. he's cool though.

― scott seward, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:55 (seventeen years ago) link

some more tangentially related stupidity:
http://www.shopthefizix.com/store/files/images//d_456.jpg

― deej, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Scott, if you mean the one I think you mean (the "secondary" instrument-player one, and not the lead), then yeah, she's really talented, and she can take her voice in some amazing directions -- at some point, watching them, I was like "wait, who's playing the theremin?" and then realized she'd just lapsed up into this amazing high quavering hum.

― nabisco, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:00 (seventeen years ago) link

man where was ethan to turn this thread into the mess it could have been?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:04 (seventeen years ago) link

he posted, to make a jab at france's right wing

― deej, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

ha i missed it! subtle.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Dunno about ethan, but thread recovery circa scott & mickey's appearance = remarkable. Anyway, I like Cocorosie, and haven't ever been bothered by their toying with "blackness". Gets a bit creepy sometimes, but remains too self-aware (and confused) to register as anything objectionable. Bravely naive, maybe.

Anyway, I've never seen 'em, but at least one of them is an amazing singer. Dunno who to credit, though. I kinda like that the question of authorship is unresolved. It's not Bianca doing this and Sierra doing that, it's just Cocorosie.

― Pye Poudre, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Night passes, morning comes, thread "recovers" from talking about race, bunnies frolic.

― nabisco, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:46 (seventeen years ago) link

no one took the bait about the john carlos skateboard streetwear : (

― deej, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:47 (seventeen years ago) link

he posted, to make a jab at france's right wing

deej on Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:34 AM (1 hour ago)

lol this makes ilx sound like some algonquin round table shit

― and what, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Not recovery from talking about race. I'm all about race (ask anyone). Just recovery from not want part.

― Pye Poudre, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

i wish i was talented in photoshop so i could make some sort of possibly_racist_drudgealert.gif. ilx desperately needs one.

― modestmickey, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

The use of the n-word. There was never the same controversy when Jack White sung "When I hear that nigger sound", which to me seems rather more dodgy than anything Cocorosie have sung. I suppose you could argue he's commenting on how as a white fan of black music, he's looked on with suspicion by some whites. Or maybe he's trying to tap into his idea of the blues idiom. Either way it's clumsy and troublesome, particuarly when you consider his idiotic comments at the time in the NME about poor blacks in the old south being "happier".

― Stew, Friday, 30 March 2007 12:38 (seventeen years ago) link

i've just had to listen to all three cocorosie albums (and while i don't hate them, i am REALLY struggling right now) and it's pretty clear that they just fetishise (many) stereotypes of blackness in a pretty dumb and superficial and ham-fisted way, and that they're not very interested in taking these thoughts much further (a pity).

― lex pretend, Friday, 30 March 2007 12:45 (seventeen years ago) link

making a bizarre kind of sense:

Joss Stone: A Thread [Started by Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), last updated 1 minute ago] 8 new answers
Why does Europe love CocoRosie so much? [Started by tornup_andhurt, last updated 2 minutes ago] 94 new answers

― lex pretend, Friday, 30 March 2007 12:48 (seventeen years ago) link

the borderline-minstrel thing is tricky. tim buckley could pull it off. i saw devendra do a nina simone tune in drag once and he pulled that off too! maybe it helps if you are a white man channeling black women. or makes it more novel somehow. or just more gay, thus more endearing.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 13:24 (seventeen years ago) link

they do some well dodgy accents on their new album

― lex pretend, Friday, 30 March 2007 13:27 (seventeen years ago) link

― stevie, Friday, 30 March 2007 13:47 (seventeen years ago) link

i heard what stew heard on 'dead leaves and the dirty ground'
but all lyrics websites, which we all know are an unimpeachable, reliable source on these matters has it:

dead leaves and the dirty ground
when I know you're not around
shiny tops and soda pops
when I hear (your) lips make a sound

― blueski, Friday, 30 March 2007 13:59 (seventeen years ago) link

those are the lyrics. i've never checked em before, but those are the lyrics as i've always heard 'em... never heard an n-bomb from jack before...

you know, i have a friend who's convinced chas smash of madness shouts 'that nazi sound' as opposed to 'that nutty sound' at that start of 'one step beyond'.

― stevie, Friday, 30 March 2007 14:15 (seventeen years ago) link

one goose-step beyond

― blueski, Friday, 30 March 2007 14:54 (seventeen years ago) link

i still think debbie harry is singing "i'm riding high / i'm lost to the jewish lie" in "heart of glass"

― s1ocki, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:02 (seventeen years ago) link

randy newman uses the n word

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Listening to that song now, and I can't understand how someone would think he was saying "that nigger sound." Weird.
That said, I seem to remember Jack White making some uncomfortable comments about rap music and its fans in an interview (or two) that certainly flirted with the racial danger zone (tm).

― Ben Boyerrr, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:07 (seventeen years ago) link

where's ethan with that 'nick or treat' ad

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:09 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah i remember that, and the stoopid "i wish i was a black man in the 20s" comment (paraphrased obv).

it kind of annoys me that acts who are less easy to take pot shots at than cocorosie seem to get passes for much worse, like sunn o))) and daniel johnston

― lex pretend, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link

"they do some well dodgy accents on their new album"
-- lexpretend

Haven't heard the new album, so I can't comment on the dodginess of the delivery. On their earlier albums ("Jesus Love Me" aside), I never heard them doing anything more than incorporating the sounds they like. No more off-putting than the the Tim Buckley or Devendra B. voice-appropriations that Scott mentioned. Less so than John Spencer...

Re: Jack White and Madness:

The "your" isn't even swallowed. Just kind of rushed: "When I hear yrlips make a sound". Lyrics printed in the LP version from day 1.

And "Nazi sound"? WTF people?

― Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:18 (seventeen years ago) link

And "Nazi sound"? WTF people?

that was my reaction, and my reaction to the misinterpretation of 'dead leaves' too.

― stevie, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Lex it might be useful here to distinguish between the BONKERS public persona of Cocorosie and that of Daniel Johnston, which is borne from an actual and genuine mental illness

― DJ Mencap, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:54 (seventeen years ago) link

"randy newman uses the n word"

he kinda bugs me more than anyone! i truly hate that shuffle/slur voice/shtick of his sometimes. hell, give me leon redbone anyday over randy.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:06 (seventeen years ago) link

>> you know, i have a friend who's convinced chas smash of madness shouts 'that nazi sound' as opposed to 'that nutty sound' at that start of 'one step beyond'.

Well hey, Suggs was mates with Ian Stuart, so it's possible.

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:09 (seventeen years ago) link

But yeah, re: Dead Leaves, WTF how do you hear that?

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, that "Rednecks" song always bothered me, too. Something about it doesn't sit right. Randy supposedly gets away with "we just keepin' the niggers down" 'cuz he's mocking white racism, but the general level of spite is so high that the excuse doesn't wash. Even as a kid, the song always left an extremely unpleasant taste in my mouth. Like underneath the veneer of "social commentary", Randy's just trying to have his hate-cake and eat it, too. He gets to say "nigger" on the radio, offending half the world, and he gets to justify the provocation by couching it in a context that deliberately insults the other half.

― Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:18 (seventeen years ago) link

he sings almost every song in that mushmouth cornpone voice. i loved when that guy on mad t.v. did his randy newman impression. such sweet revenge.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link

But yeah, re: Dead Leaves, WTF how do you hear that?

fremme neppe venette

― blueski, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:26 (seventeen years ago) link

dont care about these herbs but randy newmann is the shit

― and what, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:32 (seventeen years ago) link

no doubt. picked up the remaster of "Good Old Boys" a couple weeks ago. It comes with a bonus cd i haven't listened to yet.

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Leon Redbone's Mr. Belvedere theme song > Randy Newman's Monk theme song

― nabisco, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:44 (seventeen years ago) link

ugh, you can have him. don't even care about his genius songwriting. only rock critics listen to that shit.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

he was the hold steady of his day.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Agreed. With our without "Rednecks", I can't imagine listening to Randy Newman voluntarily.

― Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:47 (seventeen years ago) link

plus, his film scores blow.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

alfred newman, on the other hand, was the bomb.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:54 (seventeen years ago) link

>:-O

only rock critics listen to that shit.

scott seward on Friday, March 30, 2007 11:45 AM (11 minutes ago)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=RNWE%2CRNWE%3A2005-10%2CRNWE%3Aen&q=+site%3Awww.villagevoice.com+scott+seward

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:57 (seventeen years ago) link

okay, i will admit though, the image of a monkey tree IS pretty adorable. i mean, who doesn't love monkeys?

Sail Away

In America you'll get food to eat
Won't have to run through the jungle
And scuff up your feet
You'll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day
It's great to be an American

Ain't no lions or tigers
Ain't no mamba snake
Just the sweet watermelon and the buckwheat cake
Ev'rybody is as happy as a man can be
Climb aboard, little wog
Sail away with me

Sail away
Sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston Bay
Sail away
Sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston Bay

In America every man is free
To take care of his home and his family
You'll be as happy as a monkey in a monkey tree
You're all gonna be an American

Sail away
Sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston Bay
Sail away
Sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston Bay

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:58 (seventeen years ago) link

My dad used to listen to Randy Newman all the time so there's a sentimental attachment

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Not that he needs defending on those terms! I think he's great

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:59 (seventeen years ago) link

just something a little to curdled and cutesy to me. the "satire" isn't enough.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:59 (seventeen years ago) link

yes i know i have written rock reviews deej. and i like the hold steady!

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Newman's version of "satire" doesn't strike me as making for good music -- like no more than you'd say "this Capitol Steps CD is the best record of the year, you gotta understand it's satire."

― nabisco, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:01 (seventeen years ago) link

i was just joking around

I even like the weird 80s-sounding albums he did, like the one with "I Love LA"

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:02 (seventeen years ago) link

i thought short people was pretty funny when i was a kid. it was mad magazine enough for me.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I like when Dr. Dre sampled it to diss jermaine dupri

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link

plus, i don't even get sail away's premise. a slave trader is trying to "lure" africans into his boat by promising them the good life? didn't they just beat them over the head and throw them in the boat?

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:04 (seventeen years ago) link

one of randy's cousins wrote the score to Pay It Forward and another cousin of his wrote the score for Norbit. it's like the axis of evil.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Umm Scott I think the irony he's going for is the whole "promise of America" versus it not really going that way for lots of people!

― nabisco, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Its really speaking from a contemporary mindset, I think, that idea that african-americans are somehow 'better off' because they were enslaved and brought here...just speaking as a character from that time to make sure that the satire is transparent

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:06 (seventeen years ago) link

and not to on-the-nose

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:07 (seventeen years ago) link

*too

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Lex, I've told you before, Soma , when editor of a magazine, took adverts from a dodgy label to pay the bills, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SUNN O))) , who is a band he formed AFTER. And the whole thing has NOTHING to do with Greg Anderson.

Perhaps you meant Paris got a free ride for her racism(especially by you)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:07 (seventeen years ago) link

And rockarolla magazine actually interviewed him about it.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:09 (seventeen years ago) link

why didn't he just make it about immigrants then? the land of milk & honey versus the reality.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:10 (seventeen years ago) link

"I think the irony he's going for is the whole "promise of America" versus it not really going that way for lots of people!"

the irony is that he's sweet talking africans into a boat and they don't know that they are actually going to be slaves! isn't that the irony? wait, maybe that isn't ironic. maybe that's just mean. i mean, it's not about starry-eyed immigrants who choose to come here and then become enslaved by the, uh, system or whatever.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:13 (seventeen years ago) link

It's not like SOMA ever came out and said he agreed with the opinions of the label whos adverts he accepted.
Then i'd be throwing out my records.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Paris has been caught saying racist things. Soma hasn't.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:16 (seventeen years ago) link

what label was it?

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Can we call him Stephen O'Malley? And yeah, dumb decision, regretted publically. Past mistakes not forgotten but not really indicative of evil intent, either. Nothing to do with SunnO)))...

― Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Soma is easier to write than Stephen O'Malley though! and he is known as Soma.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:20 (seventeen years ago) link

what label was it????

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:21 (seventeen years ago) link

i heard that some of sean john's clothing is actually pretty nice

deej on Wednesday, 28 March 2007 21:22 (Yesterday)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i do realize that made it sound like i think sean john is a person

deej on Wednesday, 28 March 2007 21:23 (Yesterday)

Oh I get it, deej, because Sean John Combs is black, you consider him less than a whole person? COCORACIST!

― Alex in Baltimore, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Also SOMA is sick of being asked about it. He's had those questions for years. It's hardly a free ride. It's not his fault magazines you write for/Read are late to the party!

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:24 (seventeen years ago) link

haha xp

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:26 (seventeen years ago) link

the irony is that he's sweet talking africans into a boat and they don't know that they are actually going to be slaves!

Yeah but Scott I think the part of it that resonates is that the "sweet talk" he's using is (in parts) the same kind of patriotic sweet talk Americans fervently believe / repeat about the country. (Though he maybe muddles by lapsing into other kinds of irony, like the watermelon and buckwheat cake part.) It's basically just a Pied Piper song, except it puts you in a weird position by having the Pied Piper sing for where you already are!

― nabisco, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, that's the problem. Who is this song directed to, really? What's being mocked? Again, it just reads as an attempt to say some unpleasant stuff, justified by the invulnarable armor of "satire".

― Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:50 (seventeen years ago) link

OK Scott I gotta clear this up for you. The narrator of "Sail Away" is describing his activities as he would like to have them remembered. In truth, he (along with crews of armed sailors) is brutalizing whole villages and forcing them into a cargo hold where many of them will die on the long journey over. Newman is, as nabisco points out, observing that many of the lies about America which the slave trader likes to imagine are true are also beliefs held by Americans now. And, probably, forever.

it's sorta one of the most horribly sadistic songs ever, and by setting it in one of his most lushly realized melodies, Newman's commenting on the almost narcotic appeal of America-as-Myth; on how deep some of the lies underlying the country's history run, and how they can resonate even with people who know they're bullshit.

Coco Rosie aren't really capable of anything like "Sail Away" but I love their new album

― Hans Rott, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:50 (seventeen years ago) link

haha pye poudre you are a weirdo

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:52 (seventeen years ago) link

(the entire album addresses other versions of this theme - "the past was wonderful and innoncent" (Dayton Ohio 1903, Simon Smith and the Amazing Dancing Bear), "father knows best" (Letter to My Son), "no-one understands the suffering of the impossibly rich and successful" (Lonely at the Top), etc etc)

― Hans Rott, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:53 (seventeen years ago) link

"Invulnerable". Yeah.

P.S. I'm a weirdo.

― Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:02 (seventeen years ago) link

I think its pretty clear who it is directed to

― deej, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Tuesday, March 13, 2007
CocoRosie - Japan
Life is like a rollercoaster
It does flips and throws you over
Board your ship that’s going nowhere
If you stop, you’ll end up somewhere

Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody, just hold hands

Everybody wants to go to California
To live their life on a sunny day
Dreaming of someone else’s wife and kids (kids and wife)
But they'll be bringing you the same old shit (strife)

Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody, just hold hands.

Everybody wants to go to Jamaica
Queens in drag will surely fake you
Take you home, and then they'll rape you
But you like it, so say 'thank you'

Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody, just hold hands.

Now, everybody wants to go to Iraq
But once they go, they don’t come back
Bringing peanut butter jelly and other snacks
We might have our freedom, but we're still on crack.

Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody wants to go to Japan
Everybody just hold hands

― max, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:07 (seventeen years ago) link

you wanna parse that verse for us max

― Hans Rott, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:09 (seventeen years ago) link

okay, i'll take that from hans. makes more sense that way. i'd never really thought about the song that hard. i really do have a problem with his voice. maybe if i heard other people sing his stuff i would like it more. ray charles did sail away didn't he? and hey i love mama told me not to come when three dog night does it! or the wolfgang press! (though nothing saves you can leave your hat on for me. certainly not joe cocker)

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:10 (seventeen years ago) link

jamaica is full of sexually predatory drag queens, but dont worry 'cause most people like getting raped

― max, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Rott OTM. Helped me understand this song. I never bought it as a mockery of the promises made by slavers, 'cuz I'm not aware that slaves were seduced in that manner (perhaps I'm wrong). But it makes lots of sense as a satire on the allure of American luxury to immigrants. Still, even in that context, the monkeys and watermelons imagery seems unnecessary, deliberately ugly. Maybe it's the worm in the apple? The reveal that the promise is predicated on an acceptance that will be denied? Dunno. But I admit I may have been too quick to condemn...

― Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Or, "what Scott said."

― Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link

the (awesome) live solo version of "leave your hat on" might actually do it for you - seriously all of his classic stuff, once you've correctly placed the narrator, is unstoppable

― Hans Rott, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link

jamaica is full of sexually predatory drag queens, but dont worry 'cause most people like getting raped

if this is what they mean there, then I think the issue is less "racist" than "loopy" eh wot

― Hans Rott, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:16 (seventeen years ago) link

i am glad that we can use this shitty thread to find that eveyrone who isnt a total douche thinks randy newman is a genius

― and what, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:19 (seventeen years ago) link

The Cocorosie song seems confused. A statement of some sort about exoticism and the appeal/terror of otherness. Collapses into groan-inducing cheese at the end, with the Iraq stuff. But they do such a good job of masking their intent, of making the confusion seem intentional, that it's almost totally butlletproof. WTF is the only response available.

― Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Thanks, AW. Wouldn't be ILX without that ray of sunshine.

― Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:21 (seventeen years ago) link

You know what else is a great song is Louisiana 1927.

― max, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:22 (seventeen years ago) link

I also really like Dixie Flyer, but a lot of people I know don't.

― max, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:22 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.harrynilsson.com/images/newman.gif
best white ppl music ever?

― and what, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:23 (seventeen years ago) link

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/1e/9a/c62f024128a0305799cde010.L.jpg

― rps, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:33 (seventeen years ago) link

see, there ya go. i would buy that album. i love harry nilsson.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:45 (seventeen years ago) link

i like the song "old man" off of sail away a lot.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:48 (seventeen years ago) link

"i am glad that we can use this shitty thread to find that eveyrone who isnt a total douche thinks randy newman is a genius"

fuck you. at least i explained WHY i don't like him. or more specifically his voice. and his shitty film work. what do you got? "randy pwnz, you suck". dillweed.

― scott seward, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

his disney songs make me feel old and depressed

― rps, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

how is his film work shitty? it's predictable maybe but I think it's decent enough! then again my personal history with randy newman is so long I'd probably defend anything he did

this is the post where I brag that, being very old, I saw him on the Good Old Boys tour only after he'd ditched the orchestra

― Hans Rott, Friday, 30 March 2007 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link

unless I already did that, it's kinda late here

― Hans Rott, Friday, 30 March 2007 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link

the Natural is fucking classic. Fucking classic.

― max, Friday, 30 March 2007 21:27 (seventeen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

wow, new album only gets a 2.3 on pitchfork. way to go guys, take a BITE out of RACISM

― modestmickey, Thursday, 19 April 2007 10:28 (seventeen years ago) link

It's really sad to me that white people always have these "vague" and "complicated" "relationships" with black people, and yet they very rarely live in an area that has a significant black population at all, and probably never will.

― filthy dylan, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:56 (seventeen years ago) link

^ lol

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Thursday, 19 April 2007 20:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Way to generalize, filthy.

― Mordechai Shinefield, Thursday, 19 April 2007 20:08 (seventeen years ago) link

CocoRosie is Pfork's new Joan of Arc?

― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Thursday, 19 April 2007 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link

UH doesn't CocoRosie live in NYC

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Thursday, 19 April 2007 20:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Uh, it's not like NYC has a uniformly significant black population. It's plausible that CocoRosie could live in the city 24/7 and avoid any meaningful interaction with people who are not of the hip-oisie.

― mark 0, Friday, 20 April 2007 07:32 (seventeen years ago) link

That pfork review is appalling. "Think Joanna Newsom with shittier pot and nobody to edit her"? Fuck off.

― Ben Boyerrr, Friday, 20 April 2007 07:37 (seventeen years ago) link

fuck you. at least i explained WHY i don't like him. or more specifically his voice. and his shitty film work. what do you got? "randy pwnz, you suck". dillweed.

-- scott seward, Friday, March 30, 2007 11:56 AM (2 weeks ago)

classy

― gershy, Friday, 20 April 2007 07:49 (seventeen years ago) link

It's something like Vitamin C's 1999 Top 40 hit "Graduation (Friends Forever)", only with neighing horses, buzzing synths, and Sierra's operatic soprano instead of Pachelbel-derived orchestral Radio Disney pomp/circumstance.

This sounds fantastic to me. Seriously, I would have bought the album on this quote alone.

But, I've been going to a lot of concerts in Belgium and of the people I've seen (LCD Soundsystem, Andrew Bird, Joanna Newsom, Akron/Family, Deerhoof, Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, Air) The only band that's been recognised more than once is Cocorosie. And everybody has been very jealous about that one. It was sold out. I mean, as far as I can tell, they're more famous than Air here.

― I know, right?, Friday, 20 April 2007 09:33 (seventeen years ago) link

That quote is from the Pitchfork review btw.

― I know, right?, Friday, 20 April 2007 09:33 (seventeen years ago) link

i've been on the fence because i've thought in the past that they had interesting ideas which at some point they might do something with, but the new album is just so...mediocre, so amateur, so comfortable in its refusal to make any kind of artistic progress, so hokey.

― lex pretend, Friday, 20 April 2007 09:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Really? I think it has a kind of frazzled eight year old psychedelia that comes over really well.

― I know, right?, Friday, 20 April 2007 09:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I think, rich kids in the attic, awaiting a genuine crisis, making fey and pretty tunes before the deluge. I should know. After the deluge, if they're not too rich to cushion it, we'll see what they've got. In the meantime, cute, fatuousl, smug.

― moley, Friday, 20 April 2007 10:08 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah it has this air of..."sigh. do we need to write a melody here? make an effort to convey anything in our voices? hire a producer? ...nah, whatever."

― lex pretend, Friday, 20 April 2007 10:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Who edits Joanna Newsom? I could do that job.

― braveclub, Friday, 20 April 2007 10:32 (seventeen years ago) link

"Editor-at-large, Joanna Newsom"

― braveclub, Friday, 20 April 2007 10:55 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...

I quite like the new album. The serious sister's vocals reminds me of one of the female vocalists on the Bows album a lot - and a lot of the music has that same ornate papery trip hop vibe too.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 5 June 2007 01:02 (sixteen years ago) link

and isn't their last name Casady?...(not exactly the Bows LP title, but you get my drift)...

― henry s, Tuesday, 5 June 2007 19:05 (sixteen years ago) link

eleven months pass...

http://hypem.com/track/550970

― danbunny, Sunday, 18 May 2008 15:33 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.concertgebouworkest.nl/nieuws/nieuws-detail.asp?id=355&cnt=3

― danbunny, Sunday, 18 May 2008 15:41 (fifteen years ago) link

ummmm

― RabiesAngentleman, Sunday, 18 May 2008 16:44 (fifteen years ago) link

yeah,,umm

― danbunny, Sunday, 18 May 2008 16:53 (fifteen years ago) link

so maybe it's better that Cocorosie at least kinda engage with (their weird blackness issues)

^^^kinda seriously questioning this

― RabiesAngentleman, Sunday, 18 May 2008 17:02 (fifteen years ago) link

engage
enrage
engorge
dislodge
hodgepodge
resolve
implore

― danbunny, Sunday, 18 May 2008 17:05 (fifteen years ago) link

i like th look of some of th orchestra players faces in that dutch video

― danbunny, Sunday, 18 May 2008 17:06 (fifteen years ago) link

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