The 27th P&J Albums Poll!

69 Love Songs then and now; then and now it's a really lame top ten.

The Soft Bulletin, easily.

Yeah, the top 10 is about half good, I'd say. Moby for me.

I still have no idea why the ballot function doesn't turn up anything at the Voice site for this particular year, (and this year alone, apparently) though. Anybody have any ideas?

A Prince Among Thieves.

I actually still have a few of these in their entirety: Magnetic Fields, Beck, Wilco, Randy Newman, Prince Paul, Basement Jaxx, Sleater-Kinney, Eminem, Chemical Brothers and John Prine. And the Magnetic Fields, Beck, Wilco, Prince Paul, Eminem, and maybe the Chemical Brothers are my favorite albums by those acts. I think I'm gonna go with Prince Paul over Wilco.

Ol' Dirty Bastard: N***a Please (Elektra)

^^ smh at this being the 4th most critically acclaimed rap album of its year

Lots of singer-songwriters in the Top 20 – if we count Mos Def and Moby, which they are to a degree.

5th, actually. And it's better than the Roots album. (...and the first ODB album, for that matter) I'll go with Dre, but even that feels off somehow. A lot of things here I haven't heard but would like to. (xp)

A co-worker plays Play all the time at work, and I have a hard time critics are really into the whole thing. I still enjoy "Run On," sometimes even more than "Lucas With The Lid Off."

hard time believing critics...

but then my favorite Moby album is probably Hotel so obv I'M the pervert.

well, I was counting Prince Paul but not Handsome Boy Modelling School, but I guess that's up for debate. Things Fall Apart is practically the only album on that list that I particularly like.

Handsome Boy Modeling has rapping on half the tracks, while another five are samples over hip-hop beats, and another is a skit with Biz Markie. That leaves one ballad and one skit involving Father Guido Sarducci that are pretty categorically not rap.

weird to see RATM in the top 10 on this, the highest either of their other albums got on P&J was #29, and I never really thought of them as a critic's band.

Oh man Bitter is one of my all-time favorites.

well, I was counting Prince Paul but not Handsome Boy Modelling School

That's fair enough. I've always found the Roots boring, even when I was really into that type of stuff. I still like the Mos Def album quite a bit.

You have to remember that this is the 90s, Al. I mean, Moby, dude. Moby.

oh i'm not even getting into the horror of the rest of the list.

This was a much better singles than album year.

EBTG, Prine, and Sleater Kinney were in my top ten that year, but now I'd rather listen to "Beautiful Stranger," "I Want It That Way," and "My Name Is."

oh, it was a great year for singles, yeah. if we're talking about stuff that wasn't on the P&J list, though, not "Believe" and "All Star."

Embarrassingly enough, I had my first kiss to "All Star".

I found my 1999 ballot on my hard drive and I voted for Gay Dad: Leisure Noise (London). I'm listening to it now for the first time in years. It's still a fine record. But I was clearly longing for anything remotely Pooh Sticks at that point.

I'd vote for 69 Love Songs if it weren't for my major Stephin Merritt reservation which is that his songs are demos for grand bits of zeitgeist that will never happen. And I'm not convinced that it's the current zeitgeist's fault. By many accounts, he's a flat-out jerk which leads me to believe that there is more than one reason why KD Lang won't record with him. Thus he's sabotaging (self-consciously?) an opportunity to figure out how an Irving Berlin-style songwriter might resonate in the 21st century. As it is, Gregg Alexander and Linda Perry have come closer to realizing this goal. I mean, Merritt so clearly wants to be Irving Berlin. Even moved to NYC to do so. Yet he sours the project with indie/alternative anti-sociality. And so in 1999, we have yet another Kurt Cobain/Lauryn Hill-style waste of potential. Many of his songs match Berlin's. Quite a few even surpass the master. But historians will scratch their heads at his oeuvre if they're compelled to remember it all. And that's a goddamned shame!

So I voted for Fight Songs. Their best album, almost as catchy as 69 Love Songs. And friendly! And pretty - who earns the now-antiquated moniker "babe" more than Rhett Miller? I saw him close up at SXSW so I know.

Also, am I the only person on earth who prefers 1990s Randy Newman to 1970s Randy Newman?

Also, the very worst album on this list is the Dre one. How on earth anyone can prefer its fat-not-phat public disservice to "I Can't Wait" is beyond me. Not that I'm overly concerned, but with Eminem fading, how does this man put food on his table?

Oh yeah and the Moby is mildly overrated. Not enough (xhuxk, this is for you, baby) gestalt for me. But not as overrated as some are intimating here.

I voted for Gay Dad: Leisure Noise (London)

You're a brave man to admit this.

Kevin John Bozelka was the drummer for the rock band Gay Dad.

(Really, Bitter, check it out. A great breakup record. If Joni Mitchell or Joan Armitrading made a record this good now it would blow everyone away.)

Also, am I the only person on earth who prefers 1990s Randy Newman to 1970s Randy Newman?

I'm halfways on-board with this, and listen to Bad Love more than the others. I love 1980s Randy Newman the Songwriter but alas those songs are on 1980s Randy Newman Records.

Kevin John Bozelka was the drummer for the rock band Gay Dad.

Would it were true. It was formed by a music critic, ya know.

Please tell me it wasn't the infamous Nick Crowe.

This was the year that tricked me into thinking I liked the album as a format. I would eat at least 8 to 10 of dis guys.

For the record, these I'm pretty much cool with.

Beck: Midnite Vultures (DGC)
Tom Waits: Mule Variations (Epitaph)
Fiona Apple: When the Pawn . . . (Clean Slate/Epic)
The Roots: Things Fall Apart (MCA)
Nine Inch Nails: The Fragile (Nothing)
Handsome Boy Modeling School: So . . . How's Your Girl? (Tommy Boy)
Prince Paul: A Prince Among Thieves (Tommy Boy)
Basement Jaxx: Remedy (Asralwerks)
Mary J. Blige: Mary (MCA)
Ol' Dirty Bastard: N***a Please (Elektra)
Chemical Brothers: Surrender (Astralwerks)
TLC: Fanmail (LaFace)
Everything but the Girl: Temperamental (Atlantic)
Underworld: Beaucoup Fish (V2)

The Moby sucks, but I still would say I prefer it to Everything Is Wrong.

Can't remember what I picked for No. 1 then, but I think it was Basement Jaxx. Same now. Handsome Boy Modeling School was either my No. 1 or No. 2.

Voted for Sleater-Kinney. At the time I liked Flaming Lips, Beck, Built to Spill, and Moby (which was played at pretty much every single party my senior year of college). I was a huge Pavement fan circa Brighten the Corners but never listened to Terror Twilight more than a couple times after the first listen let me down.

That Sleater-Kinney album suffers for me in that half of it is some of their most vulnerable, powerful stuff and the other half is the beginning of their "rock hero" phase, shit like "Banned At The End Of The World." What they could have become and what they wound up as.

First place: Kid Rock
Second place: Eminem
Third place: Basement Jaxx (their best album.)
Fourth place: There is no fourth place, though I probably still own a copy of that Underworld album, and I remember liking a couple songs on the Old 97s one when it came out.

I like "Banned at the End of the World." Mostly I like what the PFM review pointed out: that there's barely a single chord on the album. It's just Corin and Carrie's guitar lines darting past each other the whole time.

Telling off y2k really doesn't do it for me, but the guitars are neat. Spent most of my spring break when this came out just listening to it endlessly.

i don't really like wilco all that much but i'm voting summerteeth out of this list.

It wasn't until One Beat that I really realized I wasn't getting what I used to out of them and it retroactively affected how I felt about the two before it.

x-post Summerteeth is great! Probably 'underrated' at this point thanks to YHF.

i like summerteeth a lot i didn't mean for that to sound as resigned as it did.

I loved Beck's album for all of five months. If the record was all "Sexx Laws" and "Milk and Honey," I'd play it more often.

voted for beacoup fish because i didn't see dr dre until it was too late

beaucoup

You still have next year.

Built to Spill then, Built to Spill now. I love the first seven-eight songs on it so much I forgive the dropoff. Certainly one of my favorite guitar records ever.

Pete Scholtes: your No. 1 (I remember this well) was in fact Basement Jaxx.

I tried to find my own top 10 at the voice website, but (like everybody else?) it's claiming I didn't vote...(tech glitch, I assume. Probably permanent.)

OK. I was just looking through the Top 10 comments section and I spotted this;

Chuck Eddy

ALBUMS

Kid Rock Devil Without a Cause (atlantic/lava) 25

DMX Krew We Are DMX (rephlex) 11

Les Rythmes Digitales Darkdancer (astralwerks) 10

Days of the New Days of the New (outpost) 10

Arling & Cameron All-In (emperor norton) 9

The Coup Steal This Album (dogday) 8

Tim McGraw A Place in the Sun (curb) 8

Turbonegro Apocalypse Dudes (man's ruin) 7

Cobra Verde Nightlife (motel) 6

The Gathering How to Measure a Planet? (century media) 6

SINGLES

Metallica "Whiskey in the Jar" (elektra)

LFO "Summer Girls" (logic/arista)

Chely Wright "Single White Female" (mca)

Uberzone With Afrika Bambaataa and the Soul Sonic Force "2kool4skool" (city of angels)

R. Kelly "When a Woman's Fed Up" (jive)

Christina Aguilera "Genie in a Bottle" (rca)

Goodie Mob "Get Rich to This"/"World Party" (laface)

Dismemberment Plan "The Ice of Boston" (interscope)

B*witched "C'Est La Vie" (epic)

Appliance "Food Music" (mute import)

WTF?

There's also a top 10 list for Weisbard further on.

???

the presence of r kelly is the only thing that surprises me there

maybe the coup too

I can't remember what Arling & Cameron was aside from seeing a lot of promos around. Something trip-hop instrumental or something, as was the style at the time.

That was a different Chuck Eddy!!

Just kidding -- Yeah, I liked all of those. (And I have liked other R Kelly songs as well! He can be quite a good soul singer, especially when referring to home-cooked dinners! But I think that one is my favorite by him.)

Arling and Cameron were, um, electronica. But with lots of catchy songs. At least on that album. Which I overrated even more than I overrated the other electronica albums with lots of catchy songs in my top ten.

haha arling and cameron more than anything else mentioned so far probably make me the most 'lol 1999' (even more than more buena vista). i'd go w/ remedy or 69 love songs now at the time (ye gods) i probably went beck, prince paul, or that last flaming lips album loved/liked/could listen to twice. HINDSIGHT. the sleater-kinney's somewhere on both lists, the mos def also to a lesser extent. LOTS of stuff i haven't listened to in forever, basically liked then but could myself blanching at (or LOVING maybe even but less likely) now - wilco, built to spill, um, chemical bros. LOTS of old crit faves treadwater clogging up also, it looks a mid-80s poll w/ all the 'B- effort from A- act's on there, elvis costello missed an opportunity.

40 more 1999 albums that are still on my shelf:

Lo Fidelity All Stars – On The Floor At The Boutique (Big Beat mix album)
Dixie Chicks – Fly (Monument)
Ghost – Snuffbox Immanence (Drag City)
Montgomery Gentry – Tattoos & Scars (Columbia)
Hardknox – Hardknox (Jive/Zomba)
Huon – Songs For Lord Tortoise (Animal World)
Mu-ziq – Royal Astronomy (Astralwerks)
Nazareth – Boogaloo (CMC International)
Steve Lacy / Roswell Rudd – Monk’s Dream (Verve/Universal)
Toy Box – Fantastic! (Edel)
Willie Nelson – Night And Day (Pedernales/Freefalls)
Entombed – Black Juju (Man’s Ruin)
Mammoth Volume – Mammoth Volume (The Music Cartel)
Ashes To Ashes – Plaything (Ata Boy!)
Leftfield – Rhythm And Stealth (Hard Hands/Higher Ground/Columbia)
Buck 65 – Vertex (Four Ways to Rock)
Steve Coleman And Five Elements – The Sonic Language Of Myth (BMG/RCA)
Nightmares On Wax – Carboot Soul (Warp/Matador)
I-F – The Man From Pack (Interdimensional Transmissions)
Helloween – Metal Jukebox (Sanctuary)
Drunk Horse – Drunk Horse (Man’s Ruin)
Neurosis – Times Of Grace (Relapse)
The Dismemberment Plan – Emergency & I (DeSoto)
Kreidler – Appearance And The Park (Mute)
Jessica Andrews – Heart Shaped World (Dreamworks)
Pauline Oliveros – Primordial Life (Table Of The Elements)
Dave Douglas – Songs For Wandering Souls (Winter & Winter/Edel)
The Beatnuts – A Musical Massacre (Loud)
Faith Hill – Breathe (Warner Bros.)
Cyclefly – Generation Sap (Radioactive)
Neon Venus – The Birth Of (Gato)
Boom Boom Satellites – Out Loud (Epic)
Add N To (X) – Avant Hard (Mute)
Lightning Bolt – Lightning Bolt (Load)
Crazy Town – The Gift Of Game (Columbia)
Lil’ Wayne – Tha Block Is Hot (Cash Money/Universal)
Leather Hyman – Sunshine And Other Forms Of Radiation (True Classical)
Modest Mouse – Building Nothing Out Of Something (Up)
Decoded Feedback – Evolution (Metropolis)
Aphex Twin – Windowlicker (Warp EP)

those suck

the one I'm really o_O at is Days Of The New. not even their first album with the hits, which i could kinda sorta understand, but the 2nd one where the singer fired the other members and started doing crystal meth and the single was some hilarious techno rock shit.

I love the first seven-eight songs on it so much I forgive the dropoff

"Temporarily Blind" and "Broken Chairs" can hardly be considered a drop-off! Okay, maybe the 10-minute jam at the end of "BrokenChairs", but still...

Built to Spill gets my vote though.

Reissues:
1. Louis Prima: Ultra-Lounge - Wild, Cool & Swingin': The Artist Collection (Capitol)
2. Shalamar: Greatest Hits (The Right Stuff/Solar)
3. Rolling Stones: Exile on Main Street (Virgin)
4. Grateful Dead: So Many Roads (1965-1995) (Grateful Dead/Arista)
5. From Spirituals to Swing (Vanguard)

Those last two wouldn't make the cut today. And #3 is a bit of a joke, I suppose. But I'll go to bat for the first two any day.

Another good reissue:

Cher: If I Could Turn Back TIme (Geffen)

I saved my comments from this year which are less embarrassing that I anticipated but still overly cranky. However, here are two fun nuggets:

"Has anyone even heard of Terry Dexter, Michael Petersen, The Hot, Full Devil Jacket, Old Blind Dog, Amyth, Shack, Yellow Note, Josh Rouse, Keith Harling, Red Dirt Rangers, South Pacific, Lisa Sanders, Messenger 45, Bows, R.B. Morris, Triumph 2000, Radar Bros., Expansion Union, Octant, pounds more etc. all of whom released albums in 1999?"

"Who was my music hero for 1999, the artist who not only pointed towards the future but taught me how to live in it? Former Papa's Culture singer Blake Davis who averages $2000 a month selling press kits on ebay."

I so don't remember writing that and have no clue who the hell Papa's Culture were (are?).

the 2nd one where the singer fired the other members and started doing crystal meth the single was some hilarious techno rock shit

Al, you do realize this is Chuck Eddy's ballot

albums from 1999 nobody's mentioned yet but I think are the bee's knees: Drive-By Truckers' Pizza Deliverance, East River Pipe's The Gasoline Age, Missy Elliott's Da Real World, Faint's Blank-Wave Arcade, Folk Implosion's One Part Lullaby, The Grumpies' Who Ate Stinky?, Jay-Z's Vol. 3, Latin Playboys' Dose, Slick Rick's Art Of Storytelling and the White Stripes' The White Stripes. LeTigre shows up in 2000.

xp

Yeah, what's wrong with hilarious techno rock?

Ten reissues:

Chrome – Chrome Flashback/Chrome Live: The Best Of (Cleopatra reissue)
Anita O’Day With Gene Krupa – Let Me Off Uptown! (Columbia/Legacy reissue)
Rosemary Clooney and Duke Ellington & His Orchestra – Blue Rose (Columbia/Legacy reissue)
(Various) – Pop Music: The Early Years: 1890-1950 (Columbia/Legacy reissue)
MC5 – ’66 Breakout! (Alive/Total Energy reissue)
Captain Beefheart & The Magic Band – The Dust Blows Forward (An Anthology) (Warner Archives/Rhino reissue)
(Various) – The Cornhusker’s Frolic Vols. 1 & 2 (Yazoo reissue)
Starz – Greatest Hits Live (GB Music reissue)
Falco – Greatest Hits (Buddha reissue)
Midnight Star – Anniversary Collection (Solar reissue)

Surprised no one has mentiond Destiny's Child's Writing's on the Wall, my own #1. Remedy was my #2.

Destiny's Child's Writing's on the Wall - replaced Thriller as the epitome of hits-plus-filler

yeah, I guess, but I always found it a surprisingly solid listen (maybe I'd feel differently now--in fact, I'm sure I'd feel a bit differently now) and my favourite song was always "So Good," which was never even released as a single. Also, doesn't Remedy have a fair number of throwaway filler tracks? I even thought that at the time, but still liked the strong half enough to vote for it (as I probably would with Thriller)... More than any of that, though, I don't recall the "hits-plus-filler" idea hurting Thriller's reputation, then or now! (I'm not even sure I agree with the idea, mind you. Still...)

anyway, I probably voted for D.C. because to me it was kind of a greatest hits album--the kind of greatest hits album I like best in that the people putting it out didn't even know it was a greatest hits album.

I can't remember too many filler tracks in Remedy. Never liked "Same Old Show," but others call that a high point. Even "Bingo Bango" isn't quite as embarassing as "Do Your Thing."

I wish "All That I Can Say" had been in the singles poll.

My albums ballot:

1. Built to Spill, Keep It Like a Secret (Warner Bros) 15
2. Prince Paul, A Prince Among Thieves (Tommy Boy) 15
3. Latin Playboys, Dose (Atlantic) 10
4. Armand Van Helden, 2 Future 4 U (Armed) 10
5. Moby, Play (V2) 10
6. Tom Scharpling and Ronald Thomas Clontle, Rock, Rot & Rule (Stereolaffs) 10
7. John Prine, In Spite of Ourselves (Oh Boy) 10
8. The Flaming Lips, The Soft Bulletin (Warner Bros) 10
9. The Real Hip-Hop: Best of D&D Studios Vol. 1 (Cold Front) 5
10. Luna, The Days of Our Nights (Jericho) 5

not how I'd do it now, but I still like that list

4. Armand Van Helden, 2 Future 4 U (Armed) 10

This poll would've been so much easier for me had this been included.

my favourite song was always "So Good," which was never even released as a single. Also, doesn't Remedy have a fair number of throwaway filler tracks? I even thought that at the time, but still liked the strong half enough to vote for it (as I probably would with Thriller)... More than any of that, though, I don't recall the "hits-plus-filler" idea hurting Thriller's reputation, then or now!

Ah but the truth-in-advertising "So Good" wasn't one of the ballads that render the album hits-plus-filler with a vengeance. If you started pumping something like "If You Leave" or "She Can't Love You" or "Stay" or "Sweet Sixteen" or "Now That She's Gone" or "Temptation" (or maybe "Where'd You Go"), then I'd start reevaluating. (Gawd, can anyone on earth hum these songs on command? Maybe David Toop will resuscitate one of them for Sugar and Poison 2.)

Remedy absolutely does have a fair number of throwaway filler tracks. I thought so at the time too.

The reason that hits-plus-filler never hurt Thriller's rep is because precious little of it was actual filler. Also, ya know, it's freakin' Thriller with all the intense zeitgeistiness its name should invoke. The filler on The Writing's on the Wall, by contrast, outweighs the hits and the one or two equally great non-hits (was "Hey Ladies" a single? love that one too).

But an album like this brings up a desert island conundrum that I'm sure we've all pondered. If stranded, do we take an album with (coughs) gestalt and/or one where every song is ace or do we take something like The Writing's on the Wall where the singles are so fantastic they blot out the filler? I've always used T. S. Monk's House of Music in this scenario - a bad album that contains my all-time favorite single ("Bon Bon Vie"). Would I take that over, say, A Prince Among Thieves and miss my all-time favorite boast ("ww.imtheshit.com")? Dunno.

In any case, I think the reason hits-plus-filler bug-a-boos me with The Writing's on the Wall so much is because this was the first album of the file sharing era that confirmed my suspicion that hits-plus-filler was a self-consciously evil biz strategy and not just a measure of the limits of genius or inspiration. (Mary J. Blige's Mary was another release from this year that put similar thoughts in my head.) Not only that, I bought it with my own cash money and file sharing suddenly made this thing I had in my hand seem like random casing designed to steal my money.

I started writing a piece at the time called "Columbia Records Owes Me $5.87" in which I divided the price of the album by the sixteen tracks on The Writing's on the Wall and then demanded my money back for the filler. And I was very conservative with what I called filler. But I abandoned the project because there's no way to prove hits-plus-filler. And I really wanted my money back!

Mule Variations

In any case, I think the reason hits-plus-filler bug-a-boos me with The Writing's on the Wall so much is because this was the first album of the file sharing era that confirmed my suspicion that hits-plus-filler was a self-consciously evil biz strategy and not just a measure of the limits of genius or inspiration.

I don't know if I believe that, Kevin. Do you really think there was a consicous strategic decision here that was in any way strategically different from the way thousands of other pop records before it were marketed? I really don't think file sharing changed this at all; there have ALWAYS been albums comprised of hits with filler.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying?

I'm sure if labels/musicians knew how to always make every song on an album as good as the hit single, they'd take that miracle pill. But if they can't, I'm not gonna fault them for putting out a whole album, anyway.

See, what I don't get, is there have always been albums comprised of non-hits and filler, too. And sometimes the supposed "filler" is better than the hits. And sometimes it's just good in a different way. And filler is ALWAYS in the eye of the beholder. It basically just means that some songs aren't as good as other songs, right? Which basically applies to every single album ever made, give or take two or three.

But people always seem to zero on an albums that have a hit or two on them, and act like albums-with-a-hit-or-two-on-them are somehow unique by not having all the songs be as good as all the other songs. When really, that applies to all albums.

I should hear that T.S. Monk album someday. I bet I would find other songs I like on it. (Because with albums with a single I love on them -- especially a single that singular -- I almost always wind up liking other stuff, too.)

I think the only way for every song on an album to be of equal quality is if they all sucked.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying?

No. I just didn't explain it that well.

Do you really think there was a consicous strategic decision here that was in any way strategically different from the way thousands of other pop records before it were marketed?

No, not at all. But for me (and I imagine I'm not alone here) file sharing underlined the self-consciousness of ALL hits-plus-filler albums whereas previously I've always assumed it was just that few artists are genius/inspired enough to record an album where every track was great and/or hit worthy. Suddenly, this album I had in my hand didn't feel final or definitive. We could break it apart now (with much more ease and portability than with home taping) and wonder what the hell these other tracks were doing on there in the first place.

And then you start noticing repeat offenders on the filler. Like Diane Warren. If I ever interview Mary J. Blige, the FIRST question I'm asking her is why with an album already close to 70 minutes did she feel compelled to include a five minute Diane Warren song. "A typically characterless Diane Warren," I add in my head.

And then you realize that Diane Warren's PURPOSE in life is filler. Yes, yes, she's had hits. But more often than not, she's used to make up for lack of genius/inspiration (more the latter, though).

The idea behind her goes something like this:

Random bizzer: "Ok so we have four, maybe five singles here [often only one or two]. But we need about eight more songs to fill out an album since we don't make money off of singles. And hells no are we releasing an six-song EP. Again, not much $ there. So She'kspere and Kandi are dry? Mary's turning up nothing? Well, then, give Diane a call. She'll whip something up by tomorrow."

Hence the evilness. But for me, file sharing's propensity for atomizing the album (if not rendering many of them altogether irrelevant) made this process more overt even though it existed long before the writing was on this particular wall.

Hence I want my motherfunkin' money back for those Diane Warrens I've been forced to buy when I just want the hits.

Diane Warren was the drummer for the rock band Gay Dad.

And filler is ALWAYS in the eye of the beholder.

Which I admitted above.

It basically just means that some songs aren't as good as other songs, right? Which basically applies to every single album ever made, give or take two or three.

Not quite. It means there are one to about six great songs (which usually become hits to whatever degree) surrounded by characterless product meant to fill up an album's length and sucker you into buying the full length cuz you notice one to about six great songs on the track listing.

Hence Rumours is not hits-plus-filler. Neither is More Songs About Buildings and Food. Neither is Play nor The Slim Shady LP.

I should hear that T.S. Monk album someday. I bet I would find other songs I like on it.

There's nothing cretinous on it. You won't put the needle down and run for the fire exits or fling it across the room hoping the leave a chunk of it in the wall so you can point to it and say to friends "there went one of THE worst lisetning experiences of my entire life." But I guarantee you won't remember a single goddamned cut beyond "Bon Bon Vie" a month later. Maybe even the next evening. And on the off chance you DO remember one, it will mean very little to you. Indeed, you won't know why you're recalling it in the first place. You'll move on to something else immediately and then forget it for the rest of your life. In short, House of Music is (greatest) hit (of all-time) plus filler.

Diane Warren was the drummer for the rock band Gay Dad.

Are you trying to come out of the closet, Rev?

Haha, no! The closet's good enough for me. (¿que paso?) I just found a couple opportunities to abuse a really good meme to probably no one else's chagrin.

Not quite. It means there are one to about six great songs (which usually become hits to whatever degree) surrounded by characterless product meant to fill up an album's length and sucker you into buying the full length cuz you notice one to about six great songs on the track listing.

So what you're saying is, albums with "filler" only exist when the artist/label intentionally make a few good songs and then slack off with the rest? Noone's ever set out to make an album of all good songs, and ended up with some decidedly better than others?

Random bizzer: "Ok so we have four, maybe five singles here [often only one or two]. But we need about eight more songs to fill out an album since we don't make money off of singles. And hells no are we releasing an six-song EP. Again, not much $ there. So She'kspere and Kandi are dry? Mary's turning up nothing? Well, then, give Diane a call. She'll whip something up by tomorrow."

This is funny, Kevin, but my guess is it has no basis in reality--i.e., in how these things actually work. I'm sure when Dianne Warren is called upon, it's because whoever does the calling upon thinks she'll have some magic hit in her bag--not to provide mere filler. For starters, why would they pay that much for mere filler?. Dianne Warren is probably viewed in these quarters (and I'm not sure which quarters I'm referring to--the anonymous "they" who help make these decisions, I guess) as some provider of "quality" pop. Whether it IS quality or not is another issue, but sorry--I just don't believe it's that cynical a gesture at root.

I think there's something to your arguments about filler but it seems applicable moreso to the '50s and early '60s than to any time since. (Motown and early Beatles albums were probably examples of it.)

Or maybe I should say that the cynicism, while possibly there, is not so premeditated (or conspiratorial!) as you're suggesting.

Since Bitter didn't have any big hits, it's like a full song cycle without filler (other than the instrumental intro and outro).

Actually, my theory is shot to hell somewhat because according to Allmusic, "Give Me You" (the Diane Warren track) was released as a 12" single although Wikipedia neglects to mention it. And Eric Clapton played on it. So clearly there were plans for this thing. No big plans which makes me think my theory is still somewhat sound.

But Diane Warren has served this purpose. As well as other songwriters. Did Kandi and She'kspere really think every one of those ballads was hitbound? Or even the great of a song? Really?

So what you're saying is, albums with "filler" only exist when the artist/label intentionally make a few good songs and then slack off with the rest?

Yes. It's a biz term.

Noone's ever set out to make an album of all good songs, and ended up with some decidedly better than others?

Those are just bad songs, not filler.

Yes. It's a biz term.

Actually, that's not quite true. Again, there's no way to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt what is self-consciously filler outside of some sort of paper trail or an outright admission. But in the way I was using it with respect to Diane Warren, it IS a biz term, i.e. a self-conscious strategy.

Or even the great of a song?

Or even THAT great of a song?

Come on - do we REALLY think hits-plus-filler as a self-conscious biz strategy no longer exists?

There's a vid for "Give Me You", too.

xp (maybe already answered?)

Noone's ever set out to make an album of all good songs, and ended up with some decidedly better than others?

And conversely, noone has ever tossed off what they meant to be a perfunctory song to fill space, and it wound up being one of the best tracks on an album, and maybe even a hit somewhere down the line?

And either way, how would you know what the label was attempting to do? I don't get that. How can you be so sure that the songs that you're calling filler didn't come first, even?

Also, aren't most albums (even ones where a record label isn't involved at all) all filler? (And probably not on purpose?)

I like when Christgau used to call the albums with, say, Billy Swan's "I Can Help" and Pete Shelley's "Homo Sapien" (I think those were singles he did it with) "a great hit plus great filler." Or something along those lines. That's one useful way of using a usually useless word, I guess. (And it happens more often than lots of folks seem to think.)

And conversely, noone has ever tossed off what they meant to be a perfunctory song to fill space, and it wound up being one of the best tracks on an album, and maybe even a hit somewhere down the line?

haha I love when Mick Jagger takes this statement seriously enough to dismiss "Start Me Up."

And conversely, noone has ever tossed off what they meant to be a perfunctory song to fill space, and it wound up being one of the best tracks on an album, and maybe even a hit somewhere down the line?

But that doesn't negate hits-plus-filler as a self-conscious business strategy. In fact, it confirms it ("meant to be perfunctory").

Also, aren't most albums (even ones where a record label isn't involved at all) all filler? (And probably not on purpose?)

No.

And conversely, noone has ever tossed off what they meant to be a perfunctory song to fill space, and it wound up being one of the best tracks on an album, and maybe even a hit somewhere down the line?

But that doesn't negate hits-plus-filler as a self-conscious business strategy. In fact, it confirms it ("meant to be perfunctory").

But it does negate it as something that even matters in the end, no? If a filler (prescribed by committee even) track ends up being the best song on the album, the fact that it was designed as filler hardly matters. People aren't listening to strategies--they're listening to music.

Yeah, if. If filler ends up as a filler, I want my money back.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

A better list than I expected, as most of my memories of the late 90s (in terms of music) were absolutely awful. Anyway, Flaming Lips gets my vote.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Santana: Supernatural (Arista)

haha! who pulled a Miccio-Hinder routine?

I thought my vote for Supernatural was going to be the only one!

That has got to be the strangest top 10 yet. Go Hinder!

Oh, ILMpaws.

Wow, no love for Midnite Vultures?

Dr. Dre: Dr. Dre--2001 (Aftermath/Interscope) 1

:-/

well, the same album will be up for votes again in the thread for the 28th P&J.