knowing a few folks around here are involved, i can't deny i'm chuffed that the proper Quietus site has been launched properly today having watched the blog-style site grow over the last few months. thankfully, the new look isn't all that different really is it. though i cant deny, i'm not so sure on the headline image changing when you hover over one of the articles, cos that could become bloody annoying, (oh and if you really flick around, it breaks)
― mark e, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 12:32 (fifteen years ago) link
http://thequietus.com/articles/black-sky-thinking-cutting-the-beef
What an unsufferable cunt.
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 12:34 (fifteen years ago) link
Also insufferable.
Good to see Drowned in Sound artiste Bert Anderson getting some much needed coverage.
― Stevie T, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 12:44 (fifteen years ago) link
He's no longer on Drowned in Sound. In fact, without label.
― Raw Patrick, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 12:47 (fifteen years ago) link
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff169/brumspur/lehmann.gif
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 12:49 (fifteen years ago) link
Why don't they fucking get someone who DOES know the G-Unit album then? Best use of the term "no days off" in pop since "24 Hour Party People" for a start. AMATEURS!
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 12:52 (fifteen years ago) link
As an RSS feed reader, I can't say that the new look affects me too much one way or the other. Same kind of content, same kind of frequency. I personally favour the trad blog format for most sites that are frequently updated - perhaps because I have an overly linear mind and don't mind scrolling. But since the trad blog format is still stigmatised in certain quarters, I can see why they've gone down this route.
Anyhow, I've been enjoying a honeymoon period with this site since stumbling across it about 3 weeks ago. So it's all good.
― mike t-diva, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 12:55 (fifteen years ago) link
About a third of The Quietus is challops innit. Being all look-indie-kid-I'm-bursting-yr-bubble doesn't really work on a site that's suppose to be the online Mojo or Uncut though does it.
Rap music features posse cuts isn't much of a surprise, no need for a piece anyway.
― Raw Patrick, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 12:57 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.thequietus.com/articles/hall-oates-the-singles-review/
It cannot be denied: word to Prince, Daryl and John got hits. The thing opens with 'I Can't Go For That (No Can Do)', a bona fide classic, a masterclass in sinister funk and that patented widescreen, sparking production style that cats like Dre up and ran with.
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 13:00 (fifteen years ago) link
Really this is Adam out of Adam and Joe, isn't it?
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 13:03 (fifteen years ago) link
You need to see his piece about how he tried to single-handedly bring rap music to a new audience (of white people) but illicit government black-ops shut him down, Marcy.
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 13:04 (fifteen years ago) link
Word to your mother.
― Raw Patrick, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 13:12 (fifteen years ago) link
I like the new look but then again I would.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 14:13 (fifteen years ago) link
feeling grumpy that they removed the old comments on the "about us" section as sadly thats where i got a lot of referral hits from.
― mark e, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 14:35 (fifteen years ago) link
Good to be reminded of this...
http://thequietus.com/articles/all-you-old-bastards-should-learn-something-from-this-the-cult-of-chris-needham
― bidfurd, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 20:32 (fifteen years ago) link
I think that's the whole program on the you-tube links. Watch it! It is very very very funny, and more.
― bidfurd, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 20:57 (fifteen years ago) link
So what do you think about Motörhead and Maiden t-shirts in Top Shop? Don’t get me started on that. Part of me thinks it’s great, if the people wearing them actually check it out. But I know they won’t, because to them it’s like a fashion accessory. And I feel like grabbing hold of them and going “HOW MANY FUCKING MOTORHEAD ALBUMS DO YOU OWN? NAME ME ONE SONG OTHER THAN ACE OF SPADES BY MOTORHEAD! NAME ME FIVE IRON MAIDEN ALBUMS! NOWWWWW!” I know it’s their registered trademark and they’re getting paid, but as a Metal fan who loves Maiden and Motorhead who saw them recently – I’m not one of those old bastards who go “Oh yeah, I saw them on the Number Of The Beast tour”, I still go out and see these bands because I love them – it pisses me off.
Chris Needham IS the UK Alex in NYC.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 21:10 (fifteen years ago) link
Don't like the way they've replaced the full-post RSS feed entries with just the article titles.
― mike t-diva, Thursday, 10 July 2008 13:03 (fifteen years ago) link
Odd he should think that Lemmy or Bruce Dickinson should give a toss about whether he thinks, let alone what he thinks.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 10 July 2008 14:40 (fifteen years ago) link
And I feel like grabbing hold of them and going “HOW MANY FUCKING MOTORHEAD ALBUMS DO YOU OWN? NAME ME ONE SONG OTHER THAN ACE OF SPADES BY MOTORHEAD! NAME ME FIVE IRON MAIDEN ALBUMS! NOWWWWW!”
I've never seen anyone actually do this in real life, just talk about it, but it seems like the obvious response is "I don't care at all about the band, I just wear this to annoy self-important douchebags who use their taste in music as a personality substitute"
― DJ Mencap, Thursday, 10 July 2008 14:44 (fifteen years ago) link
Yes, but do you actually do that?
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 July 2008 14:46 (fifteen years ago) link
I'd like to see more people carry this approach over to other articles of clothing. "HOW DARE YOU WEAR A LANSING LUGNUTS CAP?!?!?! HOW MANY GAMES HAVE YOU BEEN TO?!?! NAME THEIR STARTING INFIELD!!!!"
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Thursday, 10 July 2008 14:51 (fifteen years ago) link
This happens in football all the time.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 10 July 2008 14:57 (fifteen years ago) link
NAME ME THREE SPURS FA CUP FINAL SINGLES! NOWWWWW!
― DJ Mencap, Thursday, 10 July 2008 15:04 (fifteen years ago) link
suppose to be the online Mojo or Uncut
oh crikey, don't tell them that! that's exactly *not* what they're trying to be.
― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 10 July 2008 15:06 (fifteen years ago) link
(if anything, it's the online stool pigeon)
whose own online setup has improved a lot recently.
― mark e, Thursday, 10 July 2008 15:11 (fifteen years ago) link
That's a low blow Charlie!
― DJ Mencap, Thursday, 10 July 2008 15:20 (fifteen years ago) link
Why doesn't the online stool pigeon use unreadable text and background colour combinations? Or, rather, why do they bother with a print stool pigeon?
― Bocken Social Scene, Thursday, 10 July 2008 15:26 (fifteen years ago) link
Is it just my browser or is there meant to be that much Times New Roman all over the front page? Kind of ugly.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 10 July 2008 15:27 (fifteen years ago) link
move over girl talk
― mark e, Thursday, 24 July 2008 14:34 (fifteen years ago) link
I recognised Nate Dogg and "Today's The Day For You To Stop Love" by George Jones, but nothing else.
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Thursday, 24 July 2008 14:35 (fifteen years ago) link
surely we can ace it between us...
― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 24 July 2008 14:59 (fifteen years ago) link
-- mark e
Um Mark, Osymyso was doing this stuff years before you or I or anyone else knew who Girl Talk was
― DJ Mencap, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:47 (fifteen years ago) link
i know - but girl talk gets all the press these days ..
― mark e, Thursday, 24 July 2008 19:40 (fifteen years ago) link
hence why dj food dropped his stuff into this fantastic mashup aural document.
― mark e, Thursday, 24 July 2008 19:43 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt5fAU7tNxY
― Bodrick III, Thursday, 24 July 2008 20:56 (fifteen years ago) link
eek:
Dear all,
as of today The Quietus is no longer part of the joint venture deal with DrownedinSound and Sky. This obviously has major repercussions for The Quietus in both long and short term. Firstly, we'd ask anyone who has outstanding unpaid invoices to email them over to us within the next 24 hours so that we can make sure you're paid in full for work that has already been published. Secondly, as far as we're concerned this is not the end of The Quietus. With your help we've managed to achieve 40,000 unique users and 157,000 page views a month (that's a lot, for the webshy) since April and, more importantly, published some of the best music journalism that the British bit of the internet has yet seen. We're in discussions with various people to try and find a way of carrying on with The Quietus as an independent and financially viable entity. If you could get in touch with John and I about work already commissioned or with any questions you might have that would be a great help.
Thanks for all your hard work and support thus far,
J0hn D0r4n & Luk3 Turn3r
I wish them well - I've really enjoyed it so far.
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 18 August 2008 14:09 (fifteen years ago) link
in before LBZC
― Just got offed, Monday, 18 August 2008 14:11 (fifteen years ago) link
published some of the best music journalism that the British bit of the internet has yet seen.
Could someone link to any of this plz.
― Raw Patrick, Monday, 18 August 2008 14:26 (fifteen years ago) link
Maybe someone had better tell Los Campensinos' and Belle and Sebastian's lawyers about SWells referring to them as p43dos which I'm pretty sure counts as criminal libel...
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 18 August 2008 14:32 (fifteen years ago) link
...unless it's true!!?!?!??!?!?!?1/1//1/!
― Raw Patrick, Monday, 18 August 2008 14:35 (fifteen years ago) link
There's no point now though, Doran's got no money anymore.
― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 August 2008 14:35 (fifteen years ago) link
"anymore"
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 18 August 2008 14:37 (fifteen years ago) link
Well, yeah.
― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 August 2008 14:38 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.yorapper.com/Photos/50-cent-i-get-money.JPG
― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Monday, 18 August 2008 14:57 (fifteen years ago) link
Has Swells run so short of targets that he's hitting out at bands' legal representatives now?
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 18 August 2008 15:26 (fifteen years ago) link
doran stanky rich
― Just got offed, Monday, 18 August 2008 15:28 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.thequietus.com/articles/black-sky-thinking-manchester-so-much-to-answer-for
^^ fucking retarded bullshit
― special guest stars mark bronson, Monday, 15 September 2008 19:15 (fifteen years ago) link
I agree with it to the extent that undergrads are attracted to Manchester because of its music scene, but that's hardly a searing insight is it.
― Neil S, Monday, 15 September 2008 19:22 (fifteen years ago) link
saying 'the wire' is like 'hill street blues' meets 'the great american novel' (like what, saul bellow? philip roth? not seeing it homes) is just ignorant bullshit.
is it really so bad that undergrads find this city appealing because of its music? no worse than londoners who affect to be interested in the psychogeography of the east end or whatever.
― special guest stars mark bronson, Monday, 15 September 2008 19:27 (fifteen years ago) link
No, it's not bad, you're right. And a lot of crap gets talked about a lot of cities' music scenes, Manchester perhaps only marginally more than anywhere else.
― Neil S, Monday, 15 September 2008 19:29 (fifteen years ago) link
― Carrie Bradshaw Layfield (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Monday, 15 September 2008 19:43 (fifteen years ago) link
Standard manc 'everything is shit' cynicism, just directed at Manchester not everything outside of Manchester, for once.
Just about sums the piece up, really.
― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 16 September 2008 07:59 (fifteen years ago) link
A whole generation of walking lists, that’s what they’ve become: mention The Stooges or Scott Walker on your mySpace page and you’ve made it.
It’s as if the whole ethos of ‘Rock & Roll’- the whole fuck-what-came-before, daringly primitive and unabashed idiocy of it all is the one thing from the past that nobody can locate: not truly anyway; that, in reality, nobody wants to find.
For like lads huddled round the damp porno mag in the six - week holidays, or girls gawking at Big Brother bodies, the real thing might just be a bit too much to handle and live with: better the surface, the page, the TV, the comfort of make-believe.
― The Slash My Father Wrote (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 16 September 2008 09:13 (fifteen years ago) link
haha
― your worst fucking nightmare (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 16 September 2008 09:15 (fifteen years ago) link
Seriously I kind of wish I had the self-confidence to baldly proclaim that there was no contemporary music out there that 'understood' the 'ethos' of 'rock'n'roll' without pause for thought that maybe it might be me not looking hard enough. It would make me more of a dick but I would like to have a holiday in that mindset
― The Slash My Father Wrote (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 16 September 2008 09:17 (fifteen years ago) link
For like lads huddled round the damp porno mag in the six - week holidays, it was all for a dare so there was no consumnation involved
― The Slash My Father Wrote (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 16 September 2008 09:18 (fifteen years ago) link
Did anyone watch Massive on BBC3 on Sunday night? This in a nutshell.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 16 September 2008 09:34 (fifteen years ago) link
no. but i meant to. its still available iplayer - worthy of a look nick ?
― mark e, Tuesday, 16 September 2008 09:53 (fifteen years ago) link
It was pretty horrific.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 16 September 2008 09:54 (fifteen years ago) link
ahh, it was one of those that could have gone either way.shame.
― mark e, Tuesday, 16 September 2008 09:57 (fifteen years ago) link
It seems to me that the Quietus would be a lot better with some synths and drum machines (e.g. Simmonds).
― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 16 September 2008 11:11 (fifteen years ago) link
It seems like everytime I visit that site, they have a news story about Morrissey.
― A bright pair of newcomers called BROS (King Boy Pato), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 11:09 (fifteen years ago) link
It's like Viz and Shakin' Stevens really.
― A bright pair of newcomers called BROS (King Boy Pato), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 11:12 (fifteen years ago) link
the quietus was called "mildly pompous" in the graun on saturday...
― Background Zombie (CharlieNo4), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 11:53 (fifteen years ago) link
That's what you get for using words with more than one syllable in them.
― Brother Belcher (Marcello Carlin), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 11:58 (fifteen years ago) link
they ought to put a donk on it, quoth alan rusbridger.
― special guest stars mark bronson, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 11:58 (fifteen years ago) link
http://thequietus.com/articles/01003-caligari
riiight, so... literacy -- what was *that* all about, eh?
Caught up in a handover, the film needed to make something that would stand out against the cookie cutter films of the day, and thus came forth this expressionist masterpiece. Frame after frame, it delivers slices of artistic masterpieces - from the pained look in the eyes of Francis in the beginning, to the introduction of Holstenwall and Caligari himself, Cesare's final flight over rooftops and through the woods, right through to the end - never missing a beat or forgoing art for content.
i spose no-one reads quietus, but still.
There are lots of rumours circling around Caligari and his cabinet. Siegfried Kracauer wrote From Caligari to Hitler in which he erroneously states that The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari was an allegory for post-war Germany, setting it up for the Nazis to take power
ehhhh kind of
Kracauer didn't bother to see the film for about 25 years before writing the book and couldn't even have read the script which was at the time lost. His theory that a film made in 1919 could somehow be an allegory for events that were still 13 years away has been debunked time and time again. But never the less, the story has stuck.
it's not going to get unstuck by repeating a stupid version of it, is it?
Created as a response to the boring and bland cinema of the day, now, as before, this film can be viewed as it was meant to be, still standing strong against empty special effects laden atrocities that insult us around every bend.
wonder which boring and bland films he's specifically referring to? might have been use ful if he'd named them.
― special guest stars mark bronson, Monday, 26 January 2009 13:57 (fifteen years ago) link
Have another slice of artistic masterpiece, dear.
― Øystein, Monday, 26 January 2009 14:09 (fifteen years ago) link
thing of it is, the film is the 'pet sounds' or 'sgt pepper' of cinema. it's (basically) 'the first art film', the first film to qualify as art, i.e. be recognized as such by people who argue the toss over that kind of thing -- i.e. people who didn't go to the cinema much, it being basically for prole women and kids, but were just about ready to 'take it seriously'.
it qualified because by using weird painted sets the film was abandoning photographic reproduction, and the idea was that just filming something wasn't art, it was at best 'filmed theatre'. no-one at the time wrote about other aspects of filmmaking, like editing; and few people got that, actually, photographing things is not not-art.
i suppose most films made in the US in 1919–20 could be called 'cookie-cutter', but i'm pretty sure also that the german makers of 'caligari' would not have had that at the front of their mind. there was the small matter of the first world war, for example, and the consequent trade embargo with the western allies that continued till after the film was made. wonder how many cookie-cutter films they might have seen...
i am impressed that the rio sold out a screening of this, in a way. it is a terrible film.
the last sentence about special effects is probably going to give me a headache.
― special guest stars mark bronson, Monday, 26 January 2009 14:19 (fifteen years ago) link
Interview as PR analysis. And I'm damn entertained.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link
Really not a big fan of the tactic of leaving all the ums and ers in as an attempt to convey inarticulacy. I'd call it a dick move, in fact
― Turbohongro (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:10 (fourteen years ago) link
agreed
― DavidM, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:12 (fourteen years ago) link
thats a pretty cruel article
― Bobby Wo (max), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:13 (fourteen years ago) link
yea it just seems mean
― just sayin, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:14 (fourteen years ago) link
Guess I'm starting to feel quite uncomfortable with the glee with which these "ooh, look how stupid pop star X" is are RT'd and tossed around. I know I have participated - a lot - in the past. But it is starting to make me uncomfortable.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:18 (fourteen years ago) link
Jesus, did Florence fuck the author's boyfriend?
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:20 (fourteen years ago) link
too cringeworthy to read, cruelty is not a good look. Neither is encouraging anyone to be more like her from La Roux. (I can be cruel about her because I'm just some lame guy on the internet rather than someone she gave some time to and such.)
― FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:25 (fourteen years ago) link
Am I the only one who read this as dismissive of her and cruel towards the PR machine that placed her in the public eye?
― the blackest thing ever seen (HI DERE), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:26 (fourteen years ago) link
A couple of observations: firstly, how stupid do you have to be to not be able to work an iPod? It'd be nice to be able to somehow justify that she's clearly not an idiot, but what's still to come might seem to negate that.
^^ both cruel AND dismissive!
― Bobby Wo (max), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:31 (fourteen years ago) link
ha okay I kind of forgot about that part
― the blackest thing ever seen (HI DERE), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:31 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah but seriously i'm reasonably technologically illiterate myself and i worked out how to work my ipod in about a minute
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:36 (fourteen years ago) link
I work in IT and iPods confuse the fuck out of me. What's your point?
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:37 (fourteen years ago) link
its not just that we have to call her stupid because she cant use an ipod, its that we also get to imply that she partakes in some kind of 20th-century ludditry that makes her both an idiot AND ideologically suspect
― Bobby Wo (max), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:38 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, and there's that whole subtext of "women can't deal with technology..." - not sure where the writer is going with that one. I'm not sure if she's condemning Florence for playing to that stereotype, or just reinforcing it.
There just seems to be a nasty edge to this "let's smash down pop stars" when they're female (see also the rage directed at LaRoux) - but I suppose there were those puppets on YouTube acting like idiots.
I'm not sure how the dynamics of the writer being female play into this. It would be easy to dismiss it as misogyny if the writer were male - but the female writer being dismissive of and cruel stupid female pop star is just too close to home for me. There's probably a healthy dose of projection in this discomfort. Women police other women just as rigidly - if not worse - than men do.
But in this case, I'm just as guilty of it, as LaRoux and Florence annoy me perhaps *more* because they are sold as "strong or arty women" when they're poppets. But how to counteract this - coverage of non-poppet females doesn't get quite the discussion and fuss, does it?
Sorry, my thoughts are ill formed and I'm tired.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:45 (fourteen years ago) link
I would just like to make it clear I'm not excluding myself in this, before anyone calls me out as hypocritical.
I'm trying to figure out why it makes me uncomfortable.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:47 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, buts its one thing to make cruel and dismissive comments about a pop star on an internet forum or at the pub with friends, another thing entirely to use your public forum to do so in such a callous way.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 16:51 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, but if you interview someone, and they turn out to be a complete and utter inarticulate idiot, isn't that part of what one should represent in an accurate depiction of the interview?
It's not actually the interview so much that bothers me as the "ha ha, we were right" trumpeting about it, which is more my friends (and myself to be honest)
I really don't know what I'm saying. Just expressing my discomfort and trying to work out what with.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 17:02 (fourteen years ago) link
But tbh, this article goes well beyond "she's a bit inarticulate" though.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 17:03 (fourteen years ago) link
eh its also hard to get behind an interview that wears its heart on its sleeve so clearly--obviously its impossible to go into an interview w/ no preconceptions but itd be nice to think that this writer was willing to have her mind changed
― Bobby Wo (max), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 17:05 (fourteen years ago) link
It does seem a bit "break a butterfly on a wheel" TBH. I don't know if the interviewer went in with the idea that she was a puppet, a poppet and a tool. Why interview someone in that way?
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 17:12 (fourteen years ago) link
The bit about the ipod is just bizarre. "Welch is a willing victim of the post-mySpace obsession with fetishizing technical ineptitude. How stupid do you have to be to not be able to work an ipod? " she asks, ignoring Flo's quite rational explanation that she uses a CD player because post-90s technology breaks down on her (it's even mentioned that she rummages for her player in a large bag - an activity that is basically Russian roulette for ipods). Nowhere does she say she is not able to use it. As someone who's on his third digital camera in just over a year I can understand that.
And the bitchiness about how Flo can't articulate clearly enough about her favourite albums made me LOL. Just because it's a requirement that UK music journalists have to be able to provide endless lists appraising old albums in 40 pithy words doesn't mean that popstars have to be able to do it too. Have things really got so bad that we are supposed to share the anger at not being provided with yet another summary of "This Is Hardcore"?
I vaguely recollect that the English music press has a history of employing at least one or two clueless bitches to take down easy targets. It's probably comforting for the middle-aged dudes that read the Quietus to know that these traditions continue, even when done as poorly as this.
― everything, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:10 (fourteen years ago) link
Doran, who edits the site and posts here as he does, asked me to pass this on (as he's been busy with reaction to this all day) -- this is collated from a couple of reaction posts over on FB:
---
"...we set up an interview where she was going to talk about her favourite music of the 00s, after she turned down loads of subjects. Then when we turned up, she couldn't name ten albums from this decade and two of the ones she did name were from the mid 90s.
"She spent the entire allotted time acting like a pillock and talking utter shite. We reflected this....She chose the subject. She had a month to research it. Ten albums she likes from the last ten years.
"I'm not an unnecessarily cruel person but I don't really feel *that* guilty given the amount of time we put in at our end.
"I'm certainly not going to spike it for example just because it seems mean or doesn't fit in with someone's PR schedule.
"I took the decision to not go into the boring behind the scenes details, perhaps I should have done....I may write a follow up feature but I'll let the dust settle first."
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:44 (fourteen years ago) link
Wouldn't it have been better for all parties involved to just, uh, not run the piece?
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:47 (fourteen years ago) link
I mean, Christ, if Pitchfork couldn't get beardo from [INSERT HIP INDIE BAND HERE] to name his favorite albums of the decade I don't think they'd write an article trashing him.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:50 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^^^^^^^
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:54 (fourteen years ago) link
"two of the ones she did name were from the mid-90s". LOL at the aspie music writer dude's latest round of redundant album summaries being threatened by this. The rest of us are not so bothered (though as a music pedant myself I should mention that This Is Hardcore came out in 1998, not 1997 as mentioned in the article).
― everything, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:54 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah, plenty of other ways to frame this besides calling her an idiot
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:55 (fourteen years ago) link
(i don't even know this chick is, but it's a shitty article)
Not running the piece doesn't really send a "stop fucking around with us" message to the artist and their camp, though.
I agree with everyone else on the point of this piece makes The Quietus appear really, really mean, but where I break with the disapproval is that I am okay with them being really, really mean.
― the blackest thing ever seen (HI DERE), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:56 (fourteen years ago) link
There are a lot more diplomatic ways of sending that message. Plus doesn't it run the risk of pissing off the PR people to the point of damaging relations with other artists? Just seems like a pointless exercise just to be spiteful for wasted time.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:57 (fourteen years ago) link
I guess this just bothers me because I really respect the writing at the site and this is the furthest thing I would expect from them.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:58 (fourteen years ago) link
the problem for me is that it triggers my natural instinct to feel bad for someone who is being made fun of behind their back.
― The Devil's Avocado (Gukbe), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 21:05 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't know if a feature published about you on a public site that you know is coming out because you participated in an interview for it is analogous to making fun of someone behind their back; it seems rather aggressively like making fun of someone to their face.
― the blackest thing ever seen (HI DERE), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 21:07 (fourteen years ago) link
i think it wouldn't even be so bad if they had just written a diss article about her, but the fact that it's an "interview" plays on your worst fears of your words being taken out of context/the wrong way, making a bad impression, etc.
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 21:07 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah, he should have gone w/ the "boring" behind-the-scenes details, since the article is ostensibly about bullshit PR hype and the "behind-the-scenes" shit IS that PR hype, and without the b-t-s stuff that shows how shady and irritating flo is being the article just comes across as ultra-bitchy
― Bobby Wo (max), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 21:08 (fourteen years ago) link
Exactly. The words spoken by Flo don't match the bitchiness in the writers opinions.
― everything, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 21:10 (fourteen years ago) link
the point is that while florence doesn't offend me enough to make me think that she had this coming, i'm all for the music press being meaner, bitchier, not just in opinion columns but in the more eye-catching interview format, because i'm sick of reading interviews with awful artists, granted to them (ahead of other, better artists) because of the stature, where the journalist has to pretend to be enthusiastic about their music. this happens a lot! music journalism isn't about trotting out puff pieces ffs.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 October 2009 02:18 (fourteen years ago) link
I agree on the overkill of puff pieces, but I don't think being "meaner, bitchier" is the correct answer. What about just honest?
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 22 October 2009 03:07 (fourteen years ago) link
I thought this was great. I'm sick of "everything's great" when it clearly is not. I'm sick of everything being a puff piece. A major takedown (especially on a rubbish "artist" like this) was due and I'm glad The Quietus did it.
― "i find your antics mirthful and infectious" (King Boy Pato), Thursday, 22 October 2009 03:15 (fourteen years ago) link
Major takedown? Um, no. A major takedown would consist of reasoned, well-thought out arguments not snide comments and bitchiness.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 22 October 2009 03:36 (fourteen years ago) link
DUDE SHE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO USE A iPOD
― "i find your antics mirthful and infectious" (King Boy Pato), Thursday, 22 October 2009 03:37 (fourteen years ago) link
Does The Quietus have a substantial readership? I never really hear anyone mention it or see anyone link to it anywhere.
The few times I've checked it out, I really didn't see anything compelling enough to make me want to return.
― kshighway1, Thursday, 22 October 2009 03:38 (fourteen years ago) link
I read it several hours ago at work, so maybe I missed some particular nuance in the thing, but my problem with the piece isn't that the writer's being "mean," it's that the writer lacks any hint whatsoever of self-deprecation. Exposing the charade of the entire Q&A-with-a-pop-star process could've made for some funny or interesting reading, but the writer just seems intent on proving herself smarter than her subject (if the writer went into the interview with an open mind -- or anyway, not merely intent to proclaim this person a dork -- it sure doesn't read as such). Also, don't pieces like this work better when you get the sense that the writer cares deeply about the subject -- hence, the daggers come out because they're let down or something?
― sw00ds, Thursday, 22 October 2009 03:46 (fourteen years ago) link
Curious what the writer means by this also:
that laughable period in music where being female developed into its own genre?
― sw00ds, Thursday, 22 October 2009 03:51 (fourteen years ago) link
I would have preferred it if the piece had just been an essay on Florence, without the quotes from the interview. The writer's angle/agenda had very little to do with the quotes used in the piece. So having the quotes in there, and having thus Florence participate in her own takedown, to my mind distracted from the thrust of the piece and made it less effective.
― Mark, Thursday, 22 October 2009 03:53 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't know if a feature published about you on a public site that you know is coming out because you participated in an interview for it is analogous to making fun of someone behind their back; it seems rather aggressively like making fun of someone to their face.― the blackest thing ever seen (HI DERE)
― the blackest thing ever seen (HI DERE)
― Mark, Thursday, 22 October 2009 04:02 (fourteen years ago) link
Does The Quietus have a substantial readership?
I count for at least two readers, pal.
― "i find your antics mirthful and infectious" (King Boy Pato), Thursday, 22 October 2009 04:08 (fourteen years ago) link
"Does The Quietus have a substantial readership? I never really hear anyone mention it or see anyone link to it anywhere.
― kshighway1, Thursday, October 22, 2009 4:38 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark"
Unique readers yesterday: 13,623Average readers per month: 165,000Page views per month: 4/500,000
And, at all times, your mum.
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 08:21 (fourteen years ago) link
Strawberry Letter 22: For the record the other Quietus Editor wrote an extremely supportive and pro-La Roux feature for which . . . we got roundly slagged off by everyone.
There's no site rules on who we're into or not into, which is why if you come round the offices you can regularly find me stabbing myself in the face with a sharpened screwdriver at some of the reviews we run. But such is the life of giving your writers free rein.
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 08:24 (fourteen years ago) link
xxxpost. From the comments section of the article, the writer said this: "I was as engaging with her as I know how to be, smiling and trying to be a bit chatty - totally at ease and with no intention of trying to twist the conversation into some hard hitting critique. I'm absolutely sure that she's sick to the back teeth of doing press, but I probably naively assumed that it might be a nice change to have a non-demanding chat with someone of a similar age. "
― everything, Thursday, 22 October 2009 08:26 (fourteen years ago) link
"I mean, Christ, if Pitchfork couldn't get beardo from [INSERT HIP INDIE BAND HERE] to name his favorite albums of the decade I don't think they'd write an article trashing him.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:50 PM"
I have much respect for Pitchfork but how they run their business has nothing to do with me. I don't gaze up at a poster on the wall every morning that states: What would Pitchfork do?
I gaze up at a wall covered entirely in pictures of SunnO))), Gary Numan picture disks and Billy Childish artwork and do exactly what I feel like doing.
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 08:28 (fourteen years ago) link
Picture discs, innit.
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 08:29 (fourteen years ago) link
How old are you by the way?
― everything, Thursday, 22 October 2009 08:29 (fourteen years ago) link
My bottom line is this: I regret leaving the ums and ahs in but that is entirely my fault as the writer had some concerns about it but I said I'd deal with it. In retrospect I wish I'd changed that bit.
But by and large I'm pleased with the piece. In the so-called halcyon days of UK music journalism pieces like this were par for the course. Editors went out of their way to commission them. I didn't; it was the last thing I could do bar spike the piece. Which was never going to happen after the amount of time and effort put in.
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 08:37 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm 38.
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 08:38 (fourteen years ago) link
You realise I'm not the writer though. The writer is in her early 20s.
I have certainly enjoyed the writings of the Legendary Stud Brothers, Swells etc. I'm in the demographic to understand this, but I can't get over the lame way it's all put together. The writer comes off worse than the subject. That's surely a bad thing? Like a lot of your readers I don't live in the UK and I don't particularly identify with Flo as a ubiqutous media presence.
But hey, if this is a new thing where you're gonna start commissioning hatchet pieces then this is the place to start asking for recommendations!
― everything, Thursday, 22 October 2009 08:48 (fourteen years ago) link
In the so-called halcyon days of UK music journalism pieces like this were par for the course.
This was like a decade ago so not halcyon days I guess but Sylvia Patterson did a good Placebo one in the NME which was the first thing that came to mind... thing is it was written in a way that made it clear why/how Brian Molko was acting like a douchebag, and that the pair of them had had a row, basically. I think with this piece there are certain gaps that means it doesn't add up for the reader until the background to the interview is explained (which in the days of the aforementioned piece would have taken a week or a fortnight in the letters page)
― Turbohongro (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 22 October 2009 09:07 (fourteen years ago) link
Well it's a good job we don't live in those days anymore then.
Everything: We didn't commission a hatchet job. That is the whole point! We bent over backwards to allow her to talk about *whatever she wanted* and she still managed to put us in a position where it was spike or hatchet. Two implements I'd sooner not use at all!
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 09:24 (fourteen years ago) link
Wouldn't it have been better for all parties involved to just, uh, not run the piece?I mean, Christ, if Pitchfork couldn't get beardo from [INSERT HIP INDIE BAND HERE] to name his favorite albums of the decade I don't think they'd write an article trashing him.― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:50 (Yesterday) Bookmark
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:50 (Yesterday) Bookmark
These are the two things that I think are most U&K.
If someone's being that difficult, surely the best reaction would be not to give them the time of day, rather than write a trash-talking piece.
I was indifferent to mildly disliking Florence before. This piece made me feel sorry for her, made me feel cringing about the backlash that's coming for her as it comes to every uppity bitch who is due her comeuppance for getting above herself.
Would you take down some flavour of the week male indie popstar who stuttered their way through an interivew? If you got in one of Friendly Fires or Waavves or Neon Indian or ::insert flavour of the week:: and they showed something less than an autistic music journo knowledge of the past decade's worth of indie rock criticism regarding canonical albums - would they get whipped up into some philosophical fury in quite the same way?
Using women to take down uppity women is, as Everything points out, an old trick, but still a cheap one.
And sorry but no, the fact that you interviewed LaRoux last month and let her run her idiotic mouth off in similar style without whipping that up into some philosophical think-piece (which actually might have been more called-for given the actually offensively hateful, as opposed to merely vague and fluffy, things that come out of her mouth) - that does not excuse you.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 09:29 (fourteen years ago) link
Awful piece which breaks the first rule of takedown pieces - give 'em enough rope. And the second rule - if you think someone's answer is weak say so to their face and create a dialogue, don't bitch about in print after the fact. Without the behind-the-scenes context it just seems vindictive and out of proportion to anything Florence said or did. Fine, if she was obnoxious, or patronising, or a complete moron, but she just sounds tired and vague and not deserving of this kind of snarky bullshit. This kind of sub-par rant-cum-stitch-up was never par for the course in the old days of NME and MM - I just read an old Swells piece with L7 where he's obviously disappointed by their flimsy answers and pokes fun at them for it but still conveys the sense that he wanted them to be better, or there's Sylvia's Alanis piece, where she lets Alanis make a fool of herself while being nicely understated herself, whereas this writer seems like she hated Florence from the off and proceeds to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I generally like Quietus but this should never have run.
― Dorian (Dorianlynskey), Thursday, 22 October 2009 09:49 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, pretty sure this proves that the editorial team of the Quietus hate and fear women, great fucking observation xp
― Turbohongro (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:15 (fourteen years ago) link
Fuck you.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:18 (fourteen years ago) link
You don't actually have any basis for what you're saying though, do you?
― Turbohongro (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Strawberry Letter: If you keep on misreading everything I write then there's literally no point in answering this. But I'll give it one more go: Laura asked to interview her. We said do a 'Things I've Learned' so we can find some neutral ground so we don't have to lay into her (Luke and I dislike her, we presumed that Laura was a fan hence the request). She was offered a chance to talk about her ten favourite albums of the decade or *any other subject of her choosing*. SHE CHOSE TO TALK ABOUT HER TEN FAVOURITE ALBUMS OF THE DECADE. Then when we turned up she couldn't even name ten and two of the ones she chose were from the 90s. SHE CHOSE THIS SUBJECT AS SOMETHING SHE WAS EXPERT ON.
All she had to do was choose ten albums from the literally hundreds of thousands that have been released in the last decade.
We asked for Florence talking about her favourite albums. Period.
Due to her, and her alone we got a fucking mess and a waste of time. If you want to read this as misogyny then fill your boots.
Elsewhere on the site recently, other female artists being "taken down": Diamanda Galas, The Slits, PJ Harvey, La Roux, Siouxsie Sioux, Phantom, Yoko Ono, George Pringle, Speech Debelle, Theoretical Girl, Tori Amos, Lydia Lunch . . .
Elsewhere on the site, some of the best female writers in the UK given free reign to write about what they want . . .
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:33 (fourteen years ago) link
What, I have no basis for saying
1) that the british press has a build-me-up-knock-em-down approach to pop stars
2) that the writer went into this interview/piece with an agenda - and I'm kind of suspicious as to what that agenda is
3) the harshness of the piece has a lot more to do with the particular philosophical axe that the writer is grinding than the artist herself - and is fairly inappropriate?
Really?
x-post
Doran, you're really coming across as quite angry and defensive - fair enough, given the Quietus is your baby. But when you've got a quite substantial amount of people saying that the article was over the line, perhaps you might give that some thought.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:36 (fourteen years ago) link
No, this bit
― Turbohongro (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:45 (fourteen years ago) link
I haven't read this Florence piece yet and don't have time to but that Brian Molko takedown mentioned upthread was pretty much by favourite NME interview of the late 90s.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:48 (fourteen years ago) link
That was a reference to this post:
I vaguely recollect that the English music press has a history of employing at least one or two clueless bitches to take down easy targets. It's probably comforting for the middle-aged dudes that read the Quietus to know that these traditions continue, even when done as poorly as this.― everything, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:10 (Yesterday) Bookmark
― everything, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 20:10 (Yesterday) Bookmark
Which riled me so much last night that I wasn't sure whether to suggest ban the poster or give them a medal. When something angers me on that kind of level, it means that it's something that I should really give some more thought to, to find out *why* it riles me. The phrase "clueless bitches" was what really angered me, but once I removed that particularly offensive phrase, the rest of the statement seemed depressingly plausible.
Now I don't know what the agenda of the writer in point 2 was - but given the line of thinking above, it does seem a possible agenda. Not one I like, but nonetheless a plausible one.
If it's not the case, then clearly the writer of the piece is certainly able to come on ILX and explain her actual agenda. I'd actually really like to hear a less depressing explanation for the vitriol in the piece.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:52 (fourteen years ago) link
(I was also really angry at Contenderizer's line of discussion in another thread, and that, I admit, may have coloured the conclusions that I posited about the agenda of this piece.)
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:55 (fourteen years ago) link
Might be useful to separate possible misogynistic agenda (which I sincerely doubt in this case) from plain bad journalism.
― Dorian (Dorianlynskey), Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:58 (fourteen years ago) link
This is a pretty cowardly piece. I'm no fan of Flo, but if you have a problem with ditzy or vague answers have an argument at the time and write that up! Don't go home, realise you've got no useable copy and then take it out on the interviewee!
― Stevie T, Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:59 (fourteen years ago) link
I think she commented below the piece itself fwiw. I assume that everything poster is thinking of Burchill and a few less famous journos thereafter (eg Sylvia Patterson as per my Placebo interview mention) but the implication therein is wild conjecture at best and it's pretty baseless to suggest that was what was going on here
― Turbohongro (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 22 October 2009 10:59 (fourteen years ago) link
xp to Kate sorry
― Turbohongro (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:00 (fourteen years ago) link
Point taken.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:01 (fourteen years ago) link
BURCHILL IS GREAT i will defend her 4eva
― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:05 (fourteen years ago) link
Your on your own there, lex, I fear
― The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:09 (fourteen years ago) link
I love Burchill's writing. I don't always agree with what she says, but the way that she expresses things was utterly untouchable in her golden age, and still engaging enough for me to read her, even when she's on a reactionary rant.
This writer, however, really is no Burchill.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:11 (fourteen years ago) link
I generally don't read comments sections, but in looking for her explanation as referenced above, I found this:
My distaste fed off the stupid things she said and feeling that pop fans are being duped with this poor excuse for individuality and creativity.
OH NOES, ALERT THE AUTHORITIES!!!
Pop fans are being duped!!!
Disposable pop moppets in being, well, a bit dumb and more interested in presentation than endlessly rehashing rockist streams of "Influence" shockah. Next week: H from Steps unable to provide discourse on the modern Russian novel.
Thank god we can now go back to being not-duped by luminaries of individuality and creativity in our flavour of the week pop listening habits. We never would have known without you, Laura!
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:15 (fourteen years ago) link
Sorry, I'm being facetious now. I'm a bit bored today, can you tell?
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:17 (fourteen years ago) link
Yes, because she's not a Disposable Pop Moppet though she is a Quirky, Individualistic Woman with a Wry Take On Love and Life who is a Little Bit Ethereal and a Little Bit Otherworldly
― The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:21 (fourteen years ago) link
Ah yes, the Ethereal Girl. I remember that archetype well.
Basically pop moppet in a Laura Ashley dress who once heard a Kate Bush album (or has a publicist who once heard a Kate Bush album)
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:23 (fourteen years ago) link
It's a strong brand
― The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:24 (fourteen years ago) link
This reminds me of that piece I was going to write when I can find the time and stop being so angry and actually sit down and frame the insights I had last week into some kind of cogent framework.
If only I could find a place to publish it.
Doran, do you want a thinkpiece on the re-rise of The Ethereal Girl, or have I rubbished your site too much now?
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:27 (fourteen years ago) link
Just read that piece, it's not really very edifying for anyone concerned, it just comes across as a pissy rant from someone with an axe to grind. A friend used to be in a (bad white funk) band with Florence and by all accounts she's a pretty snotty person and maybe ripe for a good takedown but this isn't it.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Kate: Pitch away. I think you've got my email. I'll try and get back to you after the weekend.
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 12:04 (fourteen years ago) link
I probably won't have anything cogent until after the weekend anyway, but I'll email you when I do.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 12:08 (fourteen years ago) link
Are there still white funk bands? Wow. I thought everyone knew they were officially A Bad Idea.
― Dorian (Dorianlynskey), Thursday, 22 October 2009 12:26 (fourteen years ago) link
but my problem with the piece isn't that the writer's being "mean," it's that the writer lacks any hint whatsoever of self-deprecation. Exposing the charade of the entire Q&A-with-a-pop-star process could've made for some funny or interesting reading, but the writer just seems intent on proving herself smarter than her subject
Agree completely, she's trying too hard to demonstrate her rock crit chops, but failing to communicate anything interesting.
― tomofthenest, Thursday, 22 October 2009 12:31 (fourteen years ago) link
You guys were busy while I was asleep last night. Doran, to set the record straight, I certainly wasn't trying to imply that the Quietus needs to be more like Pitchfork. Not at all. In fact, part of the reason Quietus is one of my daily stops is because I find it a nice antidote to Pitchfork. I was simply trying to point out that most other websites would have just chosen to can the feature rather than running with it. Re-reading it this morning and I still don't see where Florence came across that bad, beyond being a little annoying. I'm not saying she wasn't a pain in the ass, but the important point is this: it isn't made clear in the article. The writer comes across as being bitter and out to destroy Florence. As mentioned above, maybe a little more background in the piece might have helped us understand. As it stands, I still think it was a piece done in very poor taste.
Doesn't mean I don't still deeply respect Quietus, I'll continue to stop by every day. I'm glad you guys are doing what you did, but I'm going to avoid this particular writer in the future. And with that, I think I've said all that needs to be said about it.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 22 October 2009 13:52 (fourteen years ago) link
Doran: can I write about why I think La Roux is a totes annoying bitch? I'll chuck in some quasi-intellectual crap, just to dress it up for the whingers here.
― "i find your antics mirthful and infectious" (King Boy Pato), Thursday, 22 October 2009 13:55 (fourteen years ago) link
I guess the good thing about being in the U.S. right now is not having been subjected to Florence and La Roux all the time.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 22 October 2009 13:59 (fourteen years ago) link
& Other: cheers - seems fair.
King Boy Pato: Ha ha! The Quietus is considering not writing about flame-haired synth/indie major label buy ins in either a negative or a positive fashion (for at least a week or two).
We'll stick to doing really long, in depth features on artists that other people have a tendency to ignore, even though no one ever comments on them.
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 14:23 (fourteen years ago) link
[/sleep deprivation grammar]
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 14:33 (fourteen years ago) link
I guess maybe that was what triggered my response. That I tend to look at TQ mostly when my friends retweet interesting links. This one got retweeted WAY more than any other article I'd seen, so I thought it might be more important/engaging/whatever - instead of realising that people just enjoy the controversy of carcrashes.
― Strawberry Letter 22 (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 22 October 2009 14:34 (fourteen years ago) link
― Dorian (Dorianlynskey), Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:26 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
haha, what does this even mean.
there was an article in Jane once where the writer saw my band play in new orleans, and the choice quote was when she was digging the music and then noticed that "aren't they a bit young, and, um, white?" we put it on a t-shirt.
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Thursday, 22 October 2009 16:20 (fourteen years ago) link
Anyone doubting the righteousness of (mainly) white funk needs to check Afrique's 'Soul Makossa'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmyMokq0RcY
― Doran, Thursday, 22 October 2009 17:03 (fourteen years ago) link
Record of the Day Awards for Journalism and PR - the winners 2009-11-27
*runners-up in brackets*
Live Reviews: Writer of the YearJohn Doran, The Quietus, NME and others(Alexis Petridis, The Guardian)
Record Reviews: Writer of the YearAlexis Petridis - The Guardian(Luke Turner, The Quietus)
Digital Publication of the YearThe Quietus (The Line of Best Fit)
hurray.
― mark e, Friday, 27 November 2009 11:53 (fourteen years ago) link
many congrats, richly deserved, even if that proximity to Petridis there makes it look like zinging in disguise.
― FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Friday, 27 November 2009 13:29 (fourteen years ago) link
awesome news john and luke, and hella well deserved!!
― Fritz Severe (stevie), Friday, 27 November 2009 14:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Fellow old man Simon Reynolds, predictably, gives this the thumbs up
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 December 2009 14:35 (fourteen years ago) link
that was not the decade of pop i experienced.
― The Devil's Avocado (Gukbe), Wednesday, 2 December 2009 15:44 (fourteen years ago) link
Simon, it should be pointed out, actually looks about 24.
― Doran, Wednesday, 2 December 2009 15:47 (fourteen years ago) link
That is an appalling article. People in their late 40s shouldn't be writing about pop and certainly not in such reductive not-as-good-as-my-day terms. Which is ironically, exactly what Stubbs used to argue 20 years ago.
― Venga, Wednesday, 2 December 2009 15:53 (fourteen years ago) link
haha that wasn't even as bad as i was expecting. how you can write an article like that and not even get anywhere near to the real story of the decade i have no idea - that it's not any genre that's dying, it's the music industry, and that the tabloidism and default to conservatism of pop recently is a consequence of that.
there's a whole load of hand-wringing "this is bad" - and some VERY selective examples! - and not a great deal of explanation as to why it might be bad apart from the sub-morleyisms near the end (and i find morley's own writing embarrassing enough).
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 2 December 2009 16:02 (fourteen years ago) link
People in their late 40s shouldn't be writing about pop
This part is just fucking stupid.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 2 December 2009 16:04 (fourteen years ago) link
also john please sort out that terrible indie song auto-playing when i click on to that page! what the fuck is it anyway.
Some random samples of those occupying the charts throughout the decade give a sense of the encroaching flavourlessness. So, in December 2002, we have Blue & Elton John, Robbie Williams, Gareth Gates, Eminem, Las Ketchup, S Club 7, Pink, The Cheeky Girls, Daniel Bedingfield and Atomic Kitten. In December 2004, it's a revived Band Aid version of 'Do They Know It's Christmas', Natasha Bedingfield, Ice Cube, Nelly and Christina Aguilera, Green Day, Destiny's Child, Girls Aloud, U2. The winter of 2006, meanwhile, yielded Take That, Nelly Furtado, Gwen Stefani, Jamelia, U2/Green Day, Justin Timberlake and Emma Bunton.
this is a terrible paragraph because it makes such a bold statement and then proceeds to back up a "trend" with a selection of completely disparate acts and then just not explain why they prove the original point BECAUSE THEY DON'T.
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 2 December 2009 16:07 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm certainly not defending Simon, typically can't stand him, I just think its silly to completely dismiss older pop writers. Some of them are actually good at winding threads through decades of pop and bring an interesting view (obv not the gobshite in question).
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 2 December 2009 16:11 (fourteen years ago) link
i do not for a second believe that that is a 'random sample' unless Stubbs is using a very very specialised definition of 'random'.
― lords of hyrule (c sharp major), Wednesday, 2 December 2009 16:13 (fourteen years ago) link
This is OTM really. Incidentally Tom E pointed out elsewhere that the game is given away by his 1982 examples, which are about as safe and indie-friendly examples of "mainstream pop" as you can get.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 December 2009 16:34 (fourteen years ago) link
xpost
On reflection I agree with that, but Stubbs is not offering a fresh prespective other than wishing it was 1982 again. Which is strange considering he spent the late 80s berating older pop writers for wishing it was 1967 again.
― Venga, Wednesday, 2 December 2009 16:34 (fourteen years ago) link
Yep, Stubbs' problem is his perspective and his poorly supported assertions not his age (says this late 40 something)
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 2 December 2009 17:17 (fourteen years ago) link
the quietus' end-of-year list is about 4284484578282490323134x better than all the other lists put together. i really underestimated this site! well done doran, luke and the gang. also props for riding for that engineers album! it's great! especially the closing track
― 102. LJ: British. 5. (acoleuthic), Thursday, 10 December 2009 23:20 (fourteen years ago) link
hey i don't know who all is involved with this or if y'all post on ILM but i just wanted to dip in and say i really enjoy this site, esp your interviews, and it's a real oasis for me in a world of crappy blogs
keep up the good work, godspeed etc.
― it's detlef season, you schrempfs (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 17:31 (thirteen years ago) link
Doran posts here
― ksh, Wednesday, 30 June 2010 17:32 (thirteen years ago) link
Doran will post a thank you soon, I'm sure! (I've only ever contributed irregularly but every time has been really enjoyable; my brief Six Organs interview remains one of my favorite pieces I've done.)
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 June 2010 17:33 (thirteen years ago) link
Best music site on the web, IMO and FWIW
― Neil S, Wednesday, 30 June 2010 17:35 (thirteen years ago) link
― ksh, Wednesday, 30 June 2010 18:01 (thirteen years ago) link
could we just not do this?
this revive is to give some dap to a good website!
― it's detlef season, you schrempfs (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 18:08 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, sure dude. I just didn't realize ppl were super into the site! Haven't read it in a while.
― ksh, Wednesday, 30 June 2010 18:09 (thirteen years ago) link
^ too busy on pitchfork with ilxor
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 18:10 (thirteen years ago) link
:-)
*bows out of thread*
― ksh, Wednesday, 30 June 2010 18:12 (thirteen years ago) link
X-post: Thanks very much for the kind words. I try and keep posting on here and Quietus stuff apart for obvious reasons but that's not to say I don't appreciate the comments... we can feel a bit embattled sometimes, for reasons of access, money, age, sanity, trolling, snippiness etc so it's heartening to hear that some people actually like/read us.
A lot of people on ILX contribute to tQ but I won't list them all here as I can't remember which ones post anonymously, save to say we appreciate all of their contributions - much of which is done for little other than a righteous wish to contribute and help out. I'll leave other people to 'out' themselves if they wish.
I will take this op however to say thanks to Dorian of this parish who gave us a great LCD Soundsystem interview, which is part of our half way through 2010 week of content.
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 18:18 (thirteen years ago) link
And yeah, Ned's piece on Six Organs was fantastic and one of our most read pieces as well...
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 18:20 (thirteen years ago) link
Really? Nice! Ben really did all the heavy lifting.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 June 2010 18:23 (thirteen years ago) link
cool interview with keith leblanc
http://thequietus.com/articles/04669-keith-leblanc-interview-sugar-hill
so weird to think the drummer on "rapper's delight" produced pretty hate machine
― hot dub grime machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 21 July 2010 19:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Well it was down to the Adrian Sherwood connection after all...
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 July 2010 19:57 (thirteen years ago) link
this guy again
http://thequietus.com/articles/05156-hip-hop-state-of-the-art-report-end-of-play-2010-2
― J0rdan S., Monday, 25 October 2010 20:27 (thirteen years ago) link
enclosed: j. cole as a breath of fresh air
― J0rdan S., Monday, 25 October 2010 20:28 (thirteen years ago) link
opinions aside, this is just god awful writing
― J0rdan S., Monday, 25 October 2010 20:29 (thirteen years ago) link
I can’t figure out why a lot of rap’s defenders actually love it the more clichéd it gets
again, j. cole, as a breath of fresh air
― J0rdan S., Monday, 25 October 2010 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link
I think Kulkarni has been a very good writer for a long time.
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Monday, 25 October 2010 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link
stick to soccer then
― J0rdan S., Monday, 25 October 2010 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link
I probably should, my knowledge of hip-hop is lacking :(
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Monday, 25 October 2010 20:35 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean
Cos hey, why bother talking about what’s good and why it’s good and why certain things are bad when you can snigger about what’s mediocre and pretend it’s all equally godlike? Fuckin hipster cunts fucking it all up for everyone forever: not to piss on your parade pricks, this rag-mag bullshit’s fine if your life is spent giggling about pop, but for those of us who need it to make life worth living it’s simply not good enough.
― J0rdan S., Monday, 25 October 2010 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
except im shit at football too.
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Monday, 25 October 2010 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
is yr name a camus reference?
― blud fuiud (nakhchivan), Monday, 25 October 2010 20:41 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, but dont expect any words of wisdom.
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Monday, 25 October 2010 20:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Cos hey, why bother talking about what’s good and why it’s good and why certain things are bad when you can snigger about what’s mediocre and pretend it’s all equally godlike? Fuckin hipster cunts fucking it all up for everyone forever: not to piss on your parade pricks, this rag-mag bullshit’s fine if your life is spent giggling about pop, but for those of us who need it to make life worth living it’s simply not good enough.― J0rdan S., Monday, October 25, 2010 8:36 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― J0rdan S., Monday, October 25, 2010 8:36 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i liked this post a lot better when i didn't realize this was a quote and i thought you had gone off the deep end
― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 25 October 2010 20:44 (thirteen years ago) link
http://i51.tinypic.com/2jbmslk.gif
― markers, Monday, 25 October 2010 20:45 (thirteen years ago) link
if i ever type the phrase "fucking hipster cunts" i authorize any mod to permaban me
― J0rdan S., Monday, 25 October 2010 20:52 (thirteen years ago) link
hope you c&p'd that
― markers, Monday, 25 October 2010 20:53 (thirteen years ago) link
otherwise RIP
Fuckin hipster cunts fucking it all up for everyone forever: not to piss on your parade pricks, this rag-mag bullshit’s fine if your life is spent giggling about pop, but for those of us who need it to make life worth living it’s simply not good enough.
sadly, too long to use as screen name.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 25 October 2010 20:54 (thirteen years ago) link
should be the subtitle on every page of the quietus
― call all destroyer, Monday, 25 October 2010 21:14 (thirteen years ago) link
Complaints complaints.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 25 October 2010 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link
Eh, there's plenty of good to great stuff in the quietus.
― Harrison Buttwhistle (NickB), Monday, 25 October 2010 21:21 (thirteen years ago) link
Kulkarni's hip-hop book is in the library and I always stumble across it when doing research and it is just unbelievably bad.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 25 October 2010 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
place his name sounds like a town in scotland
― S Beez Wit the Remedy (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 25 October 2010 21:27 (thirteen years ago) link
kulkarni's the greatest writer in music journalism today, imho
― The Boondog Taints II: All Taints Day (stevie), Monday, 25 October 2010 22:59 (thirteen years ago) link
kulkarni has been good for a long time but this piece is not good at all and should have been a guest post on ich luge bullets
― boxes of mint aeros I have eaten in a week (sic), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 00:08 (thirteen years ago) link
Do some catching up on Big Boi's 'Daddy Fat Sacks'Do some catching up on Big Boi's 'Daddy Fat Sacks'Do some catching up on Big Boi's 'Daddy Fat Sacks'Do some catching up on Big Boi's 'Daddy Fat Sacks'
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 01:22 (thirteen years ago) link
does dom really not have beef w/ this dude yet
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 04:01 (thirteen years ago) link
http://thequietus.com/articles/04143-twenty-thoughts-about-love-erykah-badu-s-new-amerykah-part-two
like i love this album too but i cant make it thru a paragraph. editors wanted
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 04:02 (thirteen years ago) link
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:02 AM (4 minutes ago
jesus christ what the fuck is he even saying
― humping and bouncing (The Brainwasher), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 04:07 (thirteen years ago) link
his writing is labyrinthine
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 04:08 (thirteen years ago) link
FOUR. So, no new clichés for a while now. Plenty of topicality, linguistic gimmickry, sharpness, fashion. No style, no real talk, no timelessness. Lies, generalities and gossip , but no truth, about love. Too much judgement and smart-arsedness, as if love isn't way too complicated to merely write through, think through, sing yourself better with. Like bereavement it will put potholes in the pavement for your dumbass facade & give you a reason to tumble down. But most pop about love is now about preparation, redemption, making sure you come out on top, paid, self-pity intact, moving on. Makeover music, self-help music, in pop 2010 there's plenty of knowledge of how emotion looks and can be described, and a total lack of any emotion.
lol @ this para basically being "not enough music is REAL"
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 04:09 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean im assuming thats what hes trying to say
there are so many words there, and none of them go together
― max, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 04:09 (thirteen years ago) link
i love the idea of some british dude dumbing out to j. cole
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 04:10 (thirteen years ago) link
he writes like he's out of breath
god that badu article is a pile of elephant crap
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 04:19 (thirteen years ago) link
i feel like he should embed some real offensive shit like 3/4 of the way thru his articles to test if his editors read his pieces all the way thru, cuz there's no way that they do right?
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 04:21 (thirteen years ago) link
'editors'?
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 04:58 (thirteen years ago) link
― The Boondog Taints II: All Taints Day (stevie), Monday, October 25, 2010 5:59 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Hello there. What seems to be the problem?
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 05:36 (thirteen years ago) link
the piece about rap is not very good
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 05:45 (thirteen years ago) link
we dont much care for it
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 05:48 (thirteen years ago) link
although we agree abt gudda gudda
that much is true
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 05:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Oh right. Sorry to hear that. If it's any consolation it'll be amongst my last. Although I'd suggest, if you know you don't like my writing, as most of you seemed to have known for a while, can't imagine why you'd put yourself through it. I'd just avoid it if I were you. There is lots of writing out there about hip-hop that I'm sure chimes more with your own thoughts. Why not read that instead? Oh, and I genuinely don't think my badu piece is a 'pile of elephant crap' but cheers, that made me chuckle.
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 05:59 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jajvv1j4MR4
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:01 (thirteen years ago) link
well if it's any consolation i don't think any of us read the quietus very often, but this type of piece is clearly a lightning rod type of thing
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:02 (thirteen years ago) link
To be fair, your prose is even more disagreeable than your opinions.
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Heh heh. Thanks Rev.
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:21 (thirteen years ago) link
Loving this in the comments under the article btw: "not even infuriating, more just hilarious to know there is someone who is as much of a pathetic dipshit as you in this world".
The possible-titles for the book just keep coming thick'n'fast. Keep 'em comin!
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:29 (thirteen years ago) link
"this book is a piece of shit"
― max, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Mebbe not a title there Max but can I quote you on the back?
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:39 (thirteen years ago) link
lol max
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:40 (thirteen years ago) link
no you may not
― max, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:45 (thirteen years ago) link
this is all too real
― Cheil Kunkarni (buzza), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:46 (thirteen years ago) link
awww, yr mean.
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:50 (thirteen years ago) link
am I paranoid if I note that latebloomer is awake and posting
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:50 (thirteen years ago) link
Jesus people
― Harrison Buttwhistle (NickB), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 06:51 (thirteen years ago) link
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 05:58 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
oh hey i'll repost it again too.
― The Boondog Taints II: All Taints Day (stevie), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 07:00 (thirteen years ago) link
and when i say "today" i also mean "the last fifteen years" but whatevs. i mea you guys think dom can write, so 0_0.
― The Boondog Taints II: All Taints Day (stevie), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 07:01 (thirteen years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 05:10 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Don't beat us all with the same stick ;_;
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 07:59 (thirteen years ago) link
sorry, you know i have <3
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:02 (thirteen years ago) link
Neil's been on here since like 2001 iirc (albeit rarely)
― boxes of mint aeros I have eaten in a week (sic), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:08 (thirteen years ago) link
really? neil give me a stint at the quietus. i can write about rap music without sounding foolish and be english.
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:21 (thirteen years ago) link
Why do you think I have any say as to who writes for the Quietus?! I'm sure you can write about rap music without sounding foolish, Holy Ruler. Well done. Have you any examples of your work I could read?
But just wondering though - how come no-one's slagging off my UK choices? Is it a) because you couldn't stomach reading that far? Orb) because you don't listen to UK rap because even though you all claim to be hip-hop fans you actually think the culture stops as soon as you step beyond the US? In which case why would I give a shit what you clowns think? I've listened to alot of US hip-hop this year, just like I have every year for the past 3 decades. I honestly wrote about what scraps have spun my propellor this year from, yes, the vantage point of being thousands of miles away from where this music originates. I am not as cool as you folk, and I responded not to what would get me the most thumbs-up from US hip-hop fans (genuinely could not give less of a shit) but what I enjoyed listening to this year. I don't see any of you lazy fucks talking about any rap beyond yr borders so your embarassment at my choices in US rap (and some of the atrocious bumf I see you boosting) is really just more grist to my mill m'afraid.Although I'm sure all o'y'all realise that if I wasn't pissing you goons off I'd consider myself failing in my work. And if you just want marks out of ten and writers who agree with your own taste you're a tad foolish reading me at all.
Oh, and I would suggest that if you couldn't figure what my Badu piece was 'about' you're thick as shit, but suspect that's something of a badge of pride for many of you.
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:30 (thirteen years ago) link
i didn't bother past an asher roth recommendation and no mention of anything other than american hiphop but hey... let me skip past that. (you are a very angry writer aren't you). tbf that kyza record was kinda dope and i haven't heard the new klash or kashmere but zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. ukhh has been kinda dragging its heels since the turn of the century, bar the odd classic. does that make me racist, oh so angry one?
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:37 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm honored to be addressed as a goon, for one
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:38 (thirteen years ago) link
He got what it was about but the prose was so strained and nonsensical that you didn't deliver on anything you actually wanted to say?
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:40 (thirteen years ago) link
otoh, rah digga has a new tape? should i be excited? harriet thugman is like the most underrated rap record ever.
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:41 (thirteen years ago) link
tbh you guys do seem to prefer pedestrian yet uh 'thoughtful' prose. neily k ain't about that.
― incredible zing banned (history mayne), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:41 (thirteen years ago) link
dirty harriet* /confusing the title w/ a song on the record
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:42 (thirteen years ago) link
In the UK, where rap pays NOBODY'S wages, where most of its protagonists are dads and mums and daughters and sons and workers who have to squeeze their art AROUND their need to eat and live the continued marginalisation of rap voices in UK pop grates and galls harder than it has done my whole life.
since when was poverty and having to work hard a sign of being worthy of caring? This is your first paragraph and you don't care enough about the records to say ppl should listen because shit is good but instead because rappers are related to ppl? And why the Sun style RANDOM CAPS LOCK in your article?
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:44 (thirteen years ago) link
You say race is the big issue of records not being big and then mention a list of only black artists to have success to prove that other black artists are being ignored?
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:46 (thirteen years ago) link
this digga is kinda dope btw.
the funny thing about these claims of "expand your borders" is that you're writing about a highly specific & homogenized style of US rap -- you're not exactly the mark twain of this shit
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:48 (thirteen years ago) link
like maybe people just prefer that electro lite sound of tinchy? is that so bad? ukhh has never got past the american ape-ing backpacker sound and while that may suit some (klash, mystro, durrty goodz, stig and that nottingham scene can produce some decent tunes) - the reason no-one cares anymore is that its never moved on. which is the same reason no-one gives a shit about joel ortiz. we already own dope mid90s ny records, why do we need a re-hash?
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:53 (thirteen years ago) link
lol yeah where is the alabama dudes or hyphy oakland shit or weird internet shit like ofwgkta or jerk or
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 08:54 (thirteen years ago) link
"i don't get gucci - american hiphop sucks now".
"I can write about hip-hop without sounding foolish"
"like maybe people just prefer that electro lite sound of tinchy? is that so bad?"
-yr so right holy. The music press loves that kind of scintillating insight at the moment. Get yr portfolio out there son!
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 09:35 (thirteen years ago) link
Ha I'm quite obv not a music journo. But srs your "u r racist if you like these black ppl better than these other black ppl" is even better.
And again I don't see what is rong w/ the masses listening to shit on the radio. I thought we got over this 'i am so better than you cos i can spend my time obsessing over shit you've never heard of p.s. if they ever do get big i'll start to hate them and you for listening to them [via earlier proof of yr opinions about drake]
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 09:47 (thirteen years ago) link
or why is it so hard to have an opinion without being a dick to those with different opinions/tastes?
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 09:49 (thirteen years ago) link
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Monday, October 25, 2010 10:48 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
have no horse in this race sickeningly brutal gangland-style horse execution, but lol anyway
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 09:52 (thirteen years ago) link
"And again I don't see what is rong w/ the masses listening to shit on the radio".
Seriously - get yr portfolio out there son! You most definitely are a music journalist!
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 10:00 (thirteen years ago) link
"sickeningly brutal gangland-style horse execution". What?
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 10:13 (thirteen years ago) link
Neil, it's not worth the hassle.
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 10:16 (thirteen years ago) link
I know but I'm bored.
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 10:18 (thirteen years ago) link
leave it neil, it's chinatown.
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 10:20 (thirteen years ago) link
Ha. My line was from Robert Towne's rejected first draft.
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 10:21 (thirteen years ago) link
hey, me too
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 10:22 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8QUzr94sYA
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 05:10 (6 hours ago) Bookmark
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 12:18 (thirteen years ago) link
wait is this actually the dude who wrote the article or a sock
― markers, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 12:31 (thirteen years ago) link
^ of all people to not recognise a long-posting music journalist on ILX
― boxes of mint aeros I have eaten in a week (sic), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 12:37 (thirteen years ago) link
search function says he's barely posted since 2008 and since then has mostly talked about his own articles, so I can't say I've seen any of his posts before fifteen minutes ago
― markers, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 12:40 (thirteen years ago) link
I also don't read The Quietus
It is Neil, he has indeed posted here off and on for many years.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 12:42 (thirteen years ago) link
It's the real Neil Kulkarni as far as I can see.
I want someone younger than me to get foolish about pop again, to stop telling me all the things I could be listening to and start telling me why I SHOULDN’T listen to certain things. Reattach guilt to pop, reattach hierarchy, reattach shame, reattach style, remember style’s difference from fashion instead of just adding their void-voice to the general hey-if-you-enjoy-it-that’s-cool numbness of discussion. Stop fucking rehabilitating everything and start locking stuff up and out and AWAY. Out of reach for a reason. Pleasure forced to justify itself again. Make like music is a revolution in heart/head/soul that changes your life, not just a soundtrack to that existence of clickable consumption and commodity-fetishism that passes for living the dream in 2010.
This is the crux of it really. Sorry Neil, but the idea that no one's doing that any more is patently nonsense. The whole article just reeks of Simon Reynolds-style old man railing from his sandpit that the kids haven't run with his idea of the future from 15 years ago.
Gucci Maine, Gudda Gudda, Weezy, Yung Jeezy, Wacka Flocka, Wiz Khalifa, Wale, Vado, the new Unimproved Rick Ross & Fabolous, way way too much god-damn Drake: you seriously ain't missing a pissing thing unless you crave yet more gold-plated groin gyration, stoned self-importance, the endless repetition of ad-copy rhymes & in-da-club shoutiness
Yeah this is exactly what I thought when I listened to The Recession. FFS.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 12:43 (thirteen years ago) link
For the record I read Neil's stuff all the way through before publishing and I enjoy it. This extremely lengthy article was edited on an iPhone on a train, so I'll apologise if any spelling mistakes crept in. I don't necessarily always agree with him... I like some Wacka Flocka Flame and Gucci Maine for example. But his main points are spot on.
My main point here is there's a big difference between not being able to understand something and it not making any sense. The point about The Quietus is that we're a British site and are keen on reflecting this as well. So not only do I love the way Neil writes but by the same token I find other UK hip hop writers mentioned in this thread excrutiatingly bad in a way unique to white British bloggers pretending to be white American journalists pretending to be black American rappers. It's not really any of our concern how Americans feel about our hip hop coverage, just our British readership. That said we get a healthy portion of our readers from the US so we must be doing something right.
Our strength and the fact that a lot of people read us lies directly in the fact that we trust our own judgement and don't pander to anyone else's tastes.
Anyone can write for us if we like the cuts they send in. John @ The Quietus dot com.
I've taken two writers directly from ILX discussions like this in the past. But to the poster above... your cuts would have to be better written than your posts. Opinion on its own is nothing.
― Duran (Doran), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 16:33 (thirteen years ago) link
are you making a subtle point abt not pretending to be Americans w yr spelling of Waka Flocka Flame and Gucci Mane?
― ksh me thru the phone (c sharp major), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 16:45 (thirteen years ago) link
man i haven't read this but man my fellow goons (if i can be considered such) you gots to chill /epmd
i mean like forks said he didn't like a lot of this stuff in the swag thread and got an unceremonious stfu i mean c'mon
― S Beez Wit the Remedy (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 16:47 (thirteen years ago) link
Again I was just joking about writing for the quietus.
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 16:48 (thirteen years ago) link
This extremely lengthy article was edited on an iPhone on a train
Doran, you are a valued poster, smart dude and a sweet guy but you def not doing yourself any favors with this
― corn futures hoof gang till them all (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 16:53 (thirteen years ago) link
It's a small business still in its second year run entirely by three people. If I have to go an do a job for someone else I still have to be working. There's nothing I can do about that. I have to pay my rent etc.
But we're hopefully going to be in a position to sort out sub editors for next year. I know it's something that's long overdue. In fact it's my main concern about the site.
― Duran (Doran), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 17:07 (thirteen years ago) link
KSH: No, I'm just rushing about and not checking anything. Apologies.
― Duran (Doran), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 17:16 (thirteen years ago) link
for the record that was c sharp major w/ a display name that starts "ksh," not me :-)
― markers, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 17:21 (thirteen years ago) link
disregarding anyone's opinion simply because you disagree with elements of their taste is such a dumbfuck internet persona thing to dothe proliferation of this attitude is a major reason why i avoid most of ilmi subject myself to "LOL u LIKE a$her U so CORNY" on swag threads because internet SERIOUS BUSINESS/good source to find new music/useful to hear what people who don't share my tastes think about a genre that matters to me. "I stopped paying attention to you once you mentioned artist X who I hate who is by any reasonable outsider estimation only marginally different from artist Y who I like" is just the worst of looks
― The Saga of the Unkillable Mr. Poppins (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:06 (thirteen years ago) link
aka "LOL zingculture"
― The Saga of the Unkillable Mr. Poppins (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:07 (thirteen years ago) link
lol u like asher roth
― max, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:07 (thirteen years ago) link
that too.
― The Saga of the Unkillable Mr. Poppins (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:08 (thirteen years ago) link
Bad taste is fine if someone's at least attempting to make a convincing case for it, rather than writing a circular mess of nonarguments and critical cliches.
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:11 (thirteen years ago) link
presuming you're defining "bad" as "not mine" in that sentence
― The Saga of the Unkillable Mr. Poppins (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:12 (thirteen years ago) link
being butthurt about other people dismissing ur opinion is a dumbfuck irl thing to do
― max, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:16 (thirteen years ago) link
Hey everybody...first meeting.....um....My name is Matt....and I like Black Star better than Waka Flocka Flame.
― S Beez Wit the Remedy (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:16 (thirteen years ago) link
xp because rap threads guys never get butthurt about dismissing of opinions, oh no.
― Neil S, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:21 (thirteen years ago) link
ah, but that butthurt can be waved away a few posts later as "jokes."
― strongohulkingtonsghost, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:24 (thirteen years ago) link
more like 500 posts later
― Neil S, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:25 (thirteen years ago) link
i dont go on rap threads there are dudes who like asher roth there
― max, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 19:34 (thirteen years ago) link
I am champion at beer pong
― (crüt) (markers) (crüt) (markers) (crüt) (markers), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 20:08 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost to forks
It's not so much that he likes Asher Roth but that he recommends him as being a good alternative to what he essentially calls stupid hiphop. Because inane rhymes about beer pong are sooooooooo much more speshal than i dunno a devin record.
Oh and using mainstream hiphops love of gold and weed as a stick to beat it with - like why have you cared to listen to the genre since run dmc's dooky gold rope?
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:25 (thirteen years ago) link
forks is otm in this though, there's a contingent among the zing crew whose take is like "you don't like what we like? LOL U MUST BE SO STUPID OMG U R NOT DOWN WITH THE RAT PACK" and it's like "wow, guys, turn 19 already"
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:29 (thirteen years ago) link
the rat pack?
― max, Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:30 (thirteen years ago) link
ref to obscure lyric, don't mind me I'm sleepy.
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:32 (thirteen years ago) link
lol u must me so stupid omg u r not down with the odd future wolf pack kill them all
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:33 (thirteen years ago) link
but the broader point: within the petri dish of ilm, the rap heads seems especially hegemonic & intolerant of any opinions that fall outside of the consensus imo - and it feels like they've really worked hard to get to this insular point of intolerance, so who can begrudge them their "achievement"
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:34 (thirteen years ago) link
ethan started it, deej just carries the torch imo
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:34 (thirteen years ago) link
uabiho: how does that work in terms of being called a racist for not liking all of the same ukhh as the guy who wrote the article?
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:37 (thirteen years ago) link
aero you're acting like we're picking on some feeble dude w/ a blog -- the actual piece itself is as inflammatory if not more!
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:37 (thirteen years ago) link
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:43 (thirteen years ago) link
no no I don't give a shit about the quietus piece, you guys are in the right on that count, it's just like srsly for like 10+ yrs, as a guy who was into rap from the ground floor & had his life changed by it it's been like "really? you have to like exactly the same shit as everybody else or yr a herb? fuckin bummer, that's exactly what foghat fans were like"
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:44 (thirteen years ago) link
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, October 26, 2010 6:29 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
isnt this exactly what his article is saying, though
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:45 (thirteen years ago) link
also, who does that here? name names.
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:46 (thirteen years ago) link
except NOT DOWN WITH THE RAT PACK is QUITE RITE MATE CREATIVITY AINT WOT IT USED 2 BE FANCY A PINT
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:46 (thirteen years ago) link
Seriously I don't think any of us (deej maybe) have a problem with him not liking ringtone canon music. It's that he seems to have made up his list of underground* alternatives** from flicking through some random blogs ignoring whole huge scenes like 'Bama or Oakland etc.
*underground music such as that hard to find Big Boi album. Never even heard of this dude.**Drag-On, seriously? As an alternative to finding weed-smoking and materialistic hip-hop? In 2010? Seriously? I mean really?
[in trying to find out if anyone cared about Drag-On in 2010 I found out that Swiss Beatz named his first child Prince Nasim, so watch out for a fat rapping boxer coming to yr blogs anytime soon.]
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:47 (thirteen years ago) link
i dont think the swag cru is particularly down on old heads. i think m@tt gets along w/ us fine, its just a 'stay in your lane' kind of thing. old head condescension is much more annoying than taking new music seriously. sorry if you disagree
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:47 (thirteen years ago) link
But what rap's megastars don’t understand as they book their limos & collaborators for a swift evac from rap's stinkydoings
shocked that the word "droogies" doesn't appear in here somewhere
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:48 (thirteen years ago) link
not that we even tell m@tt to 'stay in his lane' -- we tend to encourage him to check out nu stuff were feeling (frankly on some levels im closer to M@tt's outlook than swag cru's, i.e. lil b)
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:48 (thirteen years ago) link
dude, whiney, all y'all. that is how the entire rap discussion crew on ilm comes off to me. I stopped bothering to participate like 5 years ago because it felt like such an insular what-we-like-and-only-what-we-like scene. you can say "ua yr nuts, that impression is yr insecurity" if you want but i seriously don't think so, ilm rap thread regulars are total dicks about what they like & dont' like. like, worse than me on the metal thread is how bad.
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:49 (thirteen years ago) link
"isnt this exactly what his article is saying, though"my point was that BOTH sides are guilty of acting insular and intolerant in this teapotmaybe it's a hip hop thing? battling is v much the bedrock of the culture tho lately there's more beef amongst bloggerati than performers
― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:50 (thirteen years ago) link
i can never tell if anyone in swag cru actually likes lil b or if they are just pointing and laughing
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:50 (thirteen years ago) link
don't say "bedrock," forks
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:51 (thirteen years ago) link
its really not like that aerosmith -- id say were just pretty aggy abt ppl who rely on cliche /received wisdom about new rap
i mean, i disagree about a lot of new rap -- the omgwtfk crew isnt my thing, although i think theyre alright, and i dont like lil b at all. i rep for bay area rap that pretty much no one else is feeling (or at least talks about). m@tt & myself and some other folks (except surfboards lol) rep for 90s style shit like roc marciano.
bagging on asher roth or drag-on is like, fish-bucket stuff, not really representative of how we usually talk about rap
this dudes article still sucks
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:51 (thirteen years ago) link
and LOL at "stay in your lane"just don't participate in the conversation unless you are READY TO TYPE WITH THE BIG BOYS
― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:52 (thirteen years ago) link
i've been reppin roc marci hard and want a namecheck too
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:52 (thirteen years ago) link
basicallyhttp://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs157.snc4/37211_443126067395_158312122395_5809978_2390513_n.jpg
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:52 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qfR4ZWxfqg
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:54 (thirteen years ago) link
http://i56.tinypic.com/2qj8wlj.jpg
― (crüt) (markers) (crüt) (markers) (crüt) (markers), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:57 (thirteen years ago) link
like, the heated arguments over rap on ilm are when swag cru members get into it about shit, not when some outside poster posts about some shit and we're all like "uh fuck you"
i mean we've absorbed dudes like samosa gibreel & tpp & a hoy hoy & surfboards & jacques lemare recently -- we dig new posters
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:58 (thirteen years ago) link
deej, when your common response to you or any of the artists you like being challenged in any way is to hide behind "the swag cru", howl about how the other guy doesn't know what they're talking about or to completely ignore any worthwhile points being made that is not running with the big dogs, that is getting nipped at by puppies
― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:58 (thirteen years ago) link
aero- see now i wasn't on ilm 5 years ago but in the 2ish years i have been i dont really see where you are coming from (other than deej going mental over gucci at times). There is concensus on many things but there is no problem when people feel otherwise to that [Whiney liking new Jay-Z and Gucci-haters spring to mind.] We discuss where ppl are coming from but again I rarely feel that it is a 'omg you have a different opinion fuck you like what we like' and I don't think it could be like that considering none of us really have the same taste [Jordan and deej most prob come closest but they run a blog together].
This dude is calling people a racist for listening to some black music over other black music though, and so should be called out for such stupidity.
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:58 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost do i have to make the obvious joke here or is forks gonna go back and do it as per usual
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:59 (thirteen years ago) link
― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, October 26, 2010 6:58 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
how does one 'howl' on a message board
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:00 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.allenginsberg.org/
― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:00 (thirteen years ago) link
& who is 'hiding behind' the swag cru -- i have beef w/ those dudes abt stuff all daysorry u feel excluded forks. maybe u should bring something to the table that doesnt involve novelty youtubes
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:01 (thirteen years ago) link
i need to go out an jog but i've just been refreshing this thread instead
― max readroom (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:01 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah basically my conclusion has been to stay on the porch because the big dogs seem like a buncha fuckin assholes, is what I'm saying
if that's an awesome look for you in trying to talk about music...cool, get yours, w/e
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:02 (thirteen years ago) link
What pelican of magnets and aluminium bashed open their phones and ate up their brains and imagination?
Miracles! Solitude! Filth! Face paint! Ashcans and unobtainable dollars! Juggaloes screaming under the fukkin rainbows! Boys sobbing in bizzars! Old scientists weeping in the piss!
Miracles! Magic! Nightmare of Miracles! Miracles the loveless! Mental Miracles! Miracles the heavy judger of juggalos!
Miracles the incomprehensible prison! Miracles the crossbone soulless jailhouse and Congress of sorrows! Magic whose butterflies are judgement! Magic the vast neden of war! Fukkin the stunned governments! Bang! Pow! Boom!
Miracles whose mind is pure machinery! Miracles whose blood is running magic! Miracles whose fingers are joker card armies! Miracles whose breast is some sweet fat titties! Miracles whose ear is a smoking tomb!
Miracles whose eyes are a thousand blind windows! Miracles whose skyscrapers stand in the long streets like endless Shangri-La! Miracles whose factories dream and choke in their face paint! Miracles whose smokestacks and magic crown the fukkin cities!
Juggalettes whose love is endless oil and stone! Miracles whose soul is electricity and wank jokes! Miracles whose poverty is the specter of our customer fan base! Miracles whose fate is a cloud of sexless hydrogen, until they come party at next year's Gathering! Miracles whose name is the Mind! Fuck you scientists!
Miracles in whom I sit lonely! Miracles in whom I dream fundy Christian angels! Crazy in Miracles! Cocksucker in Eminem's crew! Lacklove and manless in I dunno, whatever!
Miracles who entered my soul early! Miracles in whom I am a consciousness without a body! Miracles who frightened me out of my natural ecstasy! Miracles whom I abandon! Wake up in Magic! Light streaming out of the sky and shit!
Miracles! Miracles! Robot apartments! invisable suburbs! skeleton treasuries! blind capitals! demonic industries! spectral nations! invincible madhouses! granite cocks! monstrous bombs!
They broke their backs lifting Miracles to Heaven! Pavements, trees, radios, tons! lifting the city to Heaven which exists and is everywhere about us!
Visions! omens! hallucinations! neden! miracles! ecstacies! gone down the American river!
Dreams! adorations! illuminations! religions! the whole boatload of sensitive bullshit!
Breakthroughs! over the river! flips and crucifixions! gone down the flood! Highs! Epiphanies! Despairs! Join the band wagon wigga it's a juggalo party! Ten years' animal screams and suicides! Minds! New loves! Mad generation! down on the rocks of Time! I stab people!
Real holy laughter in the river! They saw it all! the wild eyes! the holy yells! They bade farewell! They jumped off the roof! to solitude! waving! carrying flowers! Down to the river! into the street!
― he might have even have gone in. (a hoy hoy), Monday, 12 April 2010 23:04 (6 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:02 (thirteen years ago) link
haha jordan & i disagree about stuff all the time!! idk point is that we are not monolithic, but this article is monolithically dumb, mostly bcuz of the writing style, but also because the opinions try to damn whole swaths of awesome music & his aesthetic approach is arbitrary & generally lame
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:03 (thirteen years ago) link
sorry u feel excluded forks. maybe u should bring something to the table that doesnt involve novelty youtubes
like this - idk if u know this, but to any person outside of yr own pathological relation to forks, you just come off like a fucking dick with whom nobody in his right mind would want to engage in discussion
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:03 (thirteen years ago) link
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, October 26, 2010 7:02 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this is a pretty funny perspective considering it was basically everyone vs. me in that gza thread
it's just frustrating with you deej, cuz you really do seem to care about the music and you know a lot about it but you're constantly standoffish and insultingi'm long past the point of being offended or butthurt, it's just tired and disappointing when i'm warming up to a talk about how gucci really does represent a corporate logo and all you got is "STFU signed everyone on this thread" and then 24 hrs later it's "i am sorry you see it that way"
― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:04 (thirteen years ago) link
and go for a jog whiney
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, October 26, 2010 7:03 PM (1 second ago) Bookmark
^^
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:04 (thirteen years ago) link
imo deej takes a great deal of pride in having turned himself into a standoffish and insulting person instead of the engaged & naive person he was when he got here who got cruelly clowned by a bunch of people
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:05 (thirteen years ago) link
in fairness tho you were like totally wrong there, people weren't disagreeing w/you to be dicks but because you were wrong
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:06 (thirteen years ago) link
"that's exactly what foghat fans were like""
This calumny will not stand!
― fakey (buzza), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:06 (thirteen years ago) link
lol
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:07 (thirteen years ago) link
So basically you won't read rap threads because of deej?
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:07 (thirteen years ago) link
frankly dudes ilx has always been full of bitter & standoffish & insulting ppl -- the idea that this is some weird personality quirk of mine is kinda nuts
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:08 (thirteen years ago) link
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, October 26, 2010 7:06 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
your hypocrisy / lack of self awareness here is stunning
well but in fairness it's always stunning to you when people don't see thing like you do amirite
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:09 (thirteen years ago) link
morbius strip
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:09 (thirteen years ago) link
rap fans are naturally defensive cause we had to live through the terrible time in college when that guy in the dorm heard u were into rap and was all "oh have u heard of ATMOSPHERE"
― max, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:10 (thirteen years ago) link
max btw have you heard atmosphere?
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:11 (thirteen years ago) link
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:09 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
lol two words to prove exactly my point about how much pride you now take in being a cock instead of the nice dude you actually are
"assholes were uncool to me when I got here...I'll show them, by becoming a much bigger asshole"
be proud deej
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:12 (thirteen years ago) link
kinda feel like i wasted the potential of that one tbh. would have made a good double entendre elsewhere
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:12 (thirteen years ago) link
how am i 'being an asshole'
otoh that rah digga record really did turn out to be dope.
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:13 (thirteen years ago) link
lol internet and eight layers of this means nothing to me and yeah yeah yeah but seriously if you're actively electing to be bitter and insulting and standoffish, is it some kind of role playing thing that I'm missing? Or they're personality flaws that you're electing to give free reign on a social forum because there's no irl repercussions? i don't get it.
― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:13 (thirteen years ago) link
never mind, you wouldn't cop to it anyway...just enjoy yr "status"
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:13 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean i'm basically the same guy in person as i am on the internet for better or worse, but if I met someone in real life who was as actively aggressive, snarky and browbeaty as this i would be leavin the party
― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Or they're personality flaws that you're electing to give free reign on a social forum because there's no irl repercussions? i don't get it.
new otm whole-of-the-internet description here.
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:15 (thirteen years ago) link
I mean -- if you can actually with a straight face deny that you've traded in your naturally engaged, enthusiastic, wide-eyed music lover personality for a cynical, sniping, dozens-playing ilx persona, then there won't be any point in me trying to point it out to you
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:15 (thirteen years ago) link
jesus christ you guys enough
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:15 (thirteen years ago) link
I lol'd
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:16 (thirteen years ago) link
im not really sure who's being the asshole here, for realbut i think its u guys
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:20 (thirteen years ago) link
like, i cant talk shit about wack music journalism now?
without having to defend my entire ilx persona??
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:21 (thirteen years ago) link
''''aerosmith'''' i get along fine on ilx !! with a good number of ilx posters.
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=77&threadid=83781#unreadcan we take it here?
― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:22 (thirteen years ago) link
frankly dudes ilx has always been full of bitter & standoffish & insulting ppl -- the idea that this is some weird personality quirk of mine is kinda nuts― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, October 26, 2010 8:08 PM (12 minutes ago)
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Tuesday, October 26, 2010 8:08 PM (12 minutes ago)
― (crüt) (markers) (crüt) (markers) (crüt) (markers), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:23 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
so if u are asking -- yes i enjoy talking shit -- no im not stopping -- if yr taking it personal when its not -- i.e. accusing your logic of being a 'morbius strip' is not really a super-personal OUCH!!! my feelings!!! type diss. For you, or morbs. But i kinda think forks saying my posting suggests im letting my irl personality flaws have free reign is kind of way more meanspirited & shitty
but hey, i also thought that u know some rappers music dates better than others, and that one can be a knowledgeable music fan w/out knowing the catalog of shellac, & endless other weird-azz points that youve chosen to harp on lately in some attempt to ... i dont know??
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:24 (thirteen years ago) link
eating poptarts, not being able to sleep for the third night in a row, watching wrestling shoots where punk vividly describes homocide nearly drunkenly pissed on his face on somoa joe's floor and reading one of my favourite songwriters get a bit aggro on the internet - this is heaven rite here.
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:24 (thirteen years ago) link
xp i'm standing right here you know.
― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 00:25 (thirteen years ago) link
this article is monolithically dumb, mostly bcuz of the writing style
loath as i am to agree with anything deej says, that which is wrong with the shit linked here has almost nothing to do with "taste". i don't give a fuck whether or not some internet person likes asher roth or whatever. the crimes in question have nothing to do with taste. like, there may have been a time when "passionate poet spitting fire at the moribund mainstream" was a position that needed regular filling, but that time is long since past. you wanna do that shit as a critic, you better have something to say, and your words better be goddam GREAT, and you better know way more about your chosen passion than anyone else. otherwise, step the fuck off and get some perspective. K's shit is intolerable because it's egocentric, false and embarrassing, not because he happens to like the wrong things.
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 07:04 (thirteen years ago) link
^ asshole retreats to cave for meditation time
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 07:09 (thirteen years ago) link
rap criticism
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 07:15 (thirteen years ago) link
i think i want something different from music writing than pretty much everyone on this recent devolution of the thread, and certainly all of ILM's rap goons. i love neil's stuff: it's dense, opinionated, funny, angry, sharp. i've loved it since he started writing at melody maker fifteen or so years ago, i've loved it whenever i've commissioned him to write for me at LLSS (only it hurts to edit any of it for space). i love the fact that very few of the sentences he's ever written would fit within the confines of a tweet. he's clued me in on some of the very best music i've heard. but i guess, ultimately, it's just a matter of taste.
― are you an elitist or are you a brah, man? (stevie), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 07:23 (thirteen years ago) link
You make him sound like r|t|c, who actually is a really good writer, who I wish I wish I could read other than ILM (or maybe he does and I just don't know). But there's a difference between 'dense' and 'opaque'.
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 08:36 (thirteen years ago) link
*who I wish I could read other than on ILM
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 08:38 (thirteen years ago) link
He is usually a better writer than this, in fairness.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 08:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Alright. I haven't been following him.
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 08:47 (thirteen years ago) link
I want to go back to this para again:
Clearly, anyone who's read ILM, hell, anyone whose read hundreds of articles written about music knows this isn't actually the case. The world, the internet, is full of people telling you why you shouldn't like something and why you shouldn't listen to something.
The thing is, there's more of them. They're from all over the place, from different ideological sides, not from a handful of people setting the rules from two offices in different parts of King's Reach Tower. You only need to reed Lex talking about indie or Whiney talking about virtually anything to know Kulkarni's point is nonsense. Kulkarni's real problem is there in "stop fucking rehabilitating everything". His problem isn't that people aren't telling people what to like, and what not to like, it's that they're not doing it from his mates' parameters as laid out in the early 90s. It's exactly what's had Simon Reynolds raging impotently for years and it's kind of embarassing.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 08:50 (thirteen years ago) link
i've never liked NK's writing, it makes me feel like i'm dodging spittle all the time
also deej is nowhere near ilm's biggest asshole
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 08:51 (thirteen years ago) link
also music writers should not write about their...bodily functions at all, ever. it's just gross. DNW
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 08:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Basically, railing against the status quo is fine when you're the same age as the kids, but when you're 20 years older you just look like a sad old twat who doesn't understand them, and isn't interested in understanding them.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 08:53 (thirteen years ago) link
(I haven't bothered to read this lengthy thread digression by the way, I assume it's Deej, Whiney and a few others having exactly the same beyond tedious ruck they have on every thread).
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 09:00 (thirteen years ago) link
given that NK has only ever talked about HIMSELF and HIS OWN ARTICLES on ilm for the past few years it's really no surprise that he's unaware that pretty much THE REST OF IT is full of people both enthusing about music you should be listening to and hating on music you shouldn't be - short of actually going in person to NK's office and presenting him with CDs on a silver platter there's not a lot more that people could be doing on that point
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 09:03 (thirteen years ago) link
yep
― 156, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 09:04 (thirteen years ago) link
Moreover the 'we need to be more discerning' angle only works if you've got a compelling critical angle (or even just a distinct one)... When it's deployed in the service of wu nostalgia it just seems very old man yells at clouds.
I sympathize with the general thrust mildly (for all that hating on things is not my own main forte) but the argument 'wake up and recognise that all of this is shit' only works when it's backed up with new reasons why, and why what's great is great in ways that upset yr complacency rather than hand it a congratulatory beer.
This is what ilm's firebrands (deej, rtc, lex, vahid etc) are conversely quite good at. Could Neil construct a coherent explanation of his own tastes if he wanted to?
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 09:06 (thirteen years ago) link
would totally add k8 to that firebrand list
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 09:09 (thirteen years ago) link
deej may not be the biggest asshole around here but he's currently the most tediously consistent at derailing threads and dragging out pissy little feuds ad nauseam. I make it a point of principle never to suggest ban but I wish he'd work out when to let a pointless argument go.
Like Matt says, if Neil K wants someone to tell him why he SHOULDN'T like certain things, he's come to the right place.
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 10:36 (thirteen years ago) link
But there's a difference between 'dense' and 'opaque'.
again, i don't find him remotely opaque, but ymmv.
railing against the status quo is fine when you're the same age as the kids, but when you're 20 years older you just look like a sad old twat who doesn't understand them
disagree with this, tbh.
― are you an elitist or are you a brah, man? (stevie), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 10:40 (thirteen years ago) link
There's no way I would have published Neil's piece if he hadn't have come up with about a billion alternatives*, thus putting his money where his mouth is. I see people are only keen on bringing up Big Boi and Asher Roth out of about 40 artists however.
(*And this is not something that he would have done anyway.)
I'm also curious to know what this magical cut off date for stopping writing about popular forms of music is.
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:35 (thirteen years ago) link
I think that's a red herring. Plenty of middle-aged writers can write convincingly about pop music - what they like about it, what they don't. The nut of the problem is that Neil's complaints just don't have merit - young people have plenty of passionate, divisive opinions about music, perhaps now more than ever! But the tribes don't correspond with those Neil knows, so he doesn't see them.
There's another argument to be had about whether tribalism is necessary for music to matter but Neil doesn't appear interested in making that argument one way or another, he takes it as given.
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:40 (thirteen years ago) link
As the guy arguing with deej 75% of the time, i'd like to point out that the thread derail was a combo of random cheap shots and BAWWW coming from forks and aerosmith and was 100% not deej's fault
― O Let's Group Doueh (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Asher Roth is the most interesting recommendation in the article by far I reckon (if only because I can't parse it). I can imagine the rah digga being good.
There's no cut off date but sound and fury on behalf of nostalgia will always seem a bit geriatric. It's such an arthritic knee-jerk reaction. Of all motivations for taste nostalgia is probably the one that needs to be deployed most cautiously and precisely.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:42 (thirteen years ago) link
It's also nice to be told that giggling at a pop song is an incorrect reaction. And by "nice" I mean "annoying if it weren't so laughable".
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Tim: It's quite straight forward. You go to the bit of the article where he starts recommending stuff, the paragraph that opens with the sentence: "... there's LOADS of stuff you should be listening to." And then read the artist/group names (which are in bold), most of which have a hyperlink to the person's MySpace where you can immediately start listening to music.
There's really not that much to "parse".
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:50 (thirteen years ago) link
Have to say that a lot of anti-popism of this stripe feels a bit like coded gay bashing, as if the existence of Perez Hilton finally has given 'us' justification to damn all those sniveling materialist fops to hell once and for all. Maybe I'm reading too much into it though.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Duran, no I meant that that recommendation surprised me. Stuff like curren$y was expected.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:55 (thirteen years ago) link
dont be sillyxp
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:56 (thirteen years ago) link
I didn't (and wouldn't for fairly obvious reasons) get any homophobia from Neil's piece.
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:57 (thirteen years ago) link
It would be pretty difficult to get that vibe given the artists he was criticising.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:58 (thirteen years ago) link
Not the stuff on rap, the anti pop bits.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:59 (thirteen years ago) link
the past couple of years have made it quite hard not to be anti-pop, to be fair
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:00 (thirteen years ago) link
doran so you are cool with him just calling everyone a racist?
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:01 (thirteen years ago) link
I don't mean literal homophobia, but a distaste for typical gay cultural sensibilities.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:02 (thirteen years ago) link
Ha ha lex agreed but which critics are actively championing guetta pop?
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:03 (thirteen years ago) link
popjustice? i think most ~pro-pop~ places would
which brings us back to (my own) distaste for many typical gay cultural sensibilities
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:05 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean props to neil for providing all those alternatives but he never lays out exactly why he hates an exceptionally diverse cluster of artists he considers pop piffle. Like i'll gladly tell you that you should be listening to Roc Marciano, Big KRIT, E-40, Yelawolf and Rah Digga in 2010. But only because B.O.B. and Drake don't actually rap a lot on their records. And because Bun is trying to be Weezy. Dude's sole argument seems to be IT IS POP SHITE and comes off sounding like a 16 year old kid who just learned words like "insipid" and "inexorable"
― O Let's Group Doueh (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:08 (thirteen years ago) link
Um I think yours is a little less broad brush... Neil's piece doesn't castigate uk pop in order to defend r&b or Paris.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:09 (thirteen years ago) link
Xpost
xpost to Whiney - I was thinking more of the interminable row about a single GZA lyric than this thread in particular.
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:14 (thirteen years ago) link
The possible-titles for the book just keep coming thick'n'fast. Keep 'em comin!― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, October 26, 2010 ___________________________________________"this book is a piece of shit"― max, Tuesday, October 26, 2010
― Neil Kulkarni, Tuesday, October 26, 2010
___________________________________________
― max, Tuesday, October 26, 2010
when i write "lol," i'm almost never really laughing. but i'm still laughing out loud, for real, at that exchange.
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:14 (thirteen years ago) link
Hmm: It's a bit hard me carrying on discussing this with a load of people who haven't read it. (And, if you don't understand it, that's not my problem, it makes perfect sense to me.)
Fuckin hipster cunts fucking it all up for everyone forever: not to piss on your parade pricks, this rag-mag bullshit’s fine if your life is spent giggling about pop, but for those of us who need it to make life worth living it’s simply not good enough. Too many writers aware of where pop should be fitted/filed on your ipod but utterly unaware of how pop fits with poverty, exhaustion, insecurity, fear, everyday life out here beyond NW1/BN1, where parents don't pay for everything, where music & life have to battle. Critics believing all those commentards. The inability for writers to change the world they write about has meant they all accept that limitation in their ever-apologetic writing.I want someone younger than me to get foolish about pop again, to stop telling me all the things I could be listening to and start telling me why I SHOULDN’T listen to certain things. Reattach guilt to pop, reattach hierarchy, reattach shame, reattach style, remember style’s difference from fashion instead of just adding their void-voice to the general hey-if-you-enjoy-it-that’s-cool numbness of discussion. Stop fucking rehabilitating everything and start locking stuff up and out and AWAY. Out of reach for a reason. Pleasure forced to justify itself again. Make like music is a revolution in heart/head/soul that changes your life, not just a soundtrack to that existence of clickable consumption and commodity-fetishism that passes for living the dream in 2010.
In this section alone he is not attacking pop, he is doing the opposite. And he is lashing out against nostalgia.
In the same piece, he does not call everyone racist.
If you don't like his writing, I'd suggest you don't read it. But if you want to have some kind of row/discussion about it, then you really need to read it again and actually concentrate this time.
For people who like hip hop writing from a different slant, I'm starting a new series next week tracing the history of US hip hop from city by city, including mix tapes, unreleased tracks and interviews. It's starting in Memphis and includes a mix tape by DJ Spanish Fly and Q and As with Three Six Mafia people. (Fingers crossed.)
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:15 (thirteen years ago) link
what do you think his definition of good pop is?
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:23 (thirteen years ago) link
Well, no, he's promoting a version of pop, in a similar way to that in which twee indie kids who don't really like pop music talk about "pure pop". His very approach to pop is inherently nostalgic.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:28 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:29 (thirteen years ago) link
xp to john doran am now guilty that i may have inspired that second para with a facebook exchange about how level 42 had a couple of really great songs you know
― are you an elitist or are you a brah, man? (stevie), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:30 (thirteen years ago) link
Again, if this wasn't in the service of such a familiar take on rap (and by extension other popular music) it wouldn't be such an issue.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:31 (thirteen years ago) link
Leaving Me Now is an awesome song.
Tim F: I don't think this is such a familiar take on rap any more.
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:33 (thirteen years ago) link
Also, heaven knows there's anough to rail against in current pop (used in the widest sense of the word). And if there were ever a time for a real need for anti-establishment pop music it's now. But that gets lost amid the bluster and badly aimed use of loaded terms like "revolution", "consumption" and "commodity fetishism". The Kulkarni piece doesn't really seem to have an idea of the future, and where it might come from, it's mired in punkthink.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:34 (thirteen years ago) link
No one champions rap that sounds like it's from the nineties anymore?
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:36 (thirteen years ago) link
Ha ha matt I read that as 'mired in kpunk think'
― Tim F, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:37 (thirteen years ago) link
correct reading
― sock lobster (blueski), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:39 (thirteen years ago) link
― Duran (Doran), Tuesday, 26 October 2010 18:07 (Yesterday)
bagsy
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 13:08 (thirteen years ago) link
Hey, Acoleuthic, I'm not in a position to pay anyone yet but if you're qualified (i.e. you've got better grammar and spelling than me) and you've got time on your hands we'd appreciate the help in the mean time. John @ The Quietus dot com Cheers.
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 13:12 (thirteen years ago) link
Like I said, all this hate is all v.v good for me (and where there's been actual suggestions of what I SHOULD have written about I'm checking them out so cheers). BUT must sayI love pop. I have always been a fiercely pro-pop writer and I utterly resent being characterised as someone trying to denigrate pop. Because I love pop I have a heartbroken and fierce dissapointment with bad pop music. In my job I talk to kids about pop music way more than I talk to anyone on here. Those kids are mostly faster, funnier and sharper than any of the smug baiting I read on ILM. And most of the hate/critique I read on ILM are written with such a joyless ungenerous self-boosting sneer it's nauseating and/or simply bloodlessly/blandly tedious (i.e pretty much everything I've ever read by that android Lex). As for ideas about the future, I have plenty of them and none of them have anything to do with Hyphy or the Bay-Area. I'm also not entirely sure what y'all think old writers should do other than STOP. Well sorry, I ain't fucking stopping for anyone (although I was considering it after this year) - this thread has most emphatically made me even more convinced I should carry on forever just to piss some of you folk off! Sorry.
― Neil Kulkarni, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 13:44 (thirteen years ago) link
i think acoleuthic would be a perfect fit for your magazine
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 13:48 (thirteen years ago) link
Like I said, all this hate is all v.v. good for me (and where there's have been actual suggestions of what I SHOULD have written about I'm checking them out, so cheers). BUT I must say: I love pop. I have always been a fiercely pro-pop writer and I utterly resent being characterised as someone trying to denigrate pop. Because I love pop I have a heartbroken and fierce dissappointment with bad pop music. In my job I talk to kids about pop music way more than I talk to anyone on here. Those kids are mostly faster, funnier and sharper than any of the smug baiting I read on ILM. And most of the hate/critique I read on ILM are is written with such a joyless, ungenerous self-boosting sneer it's nauseating and/or simply bloodlessly/blandly tedious (i.e pretty much everything I've ever read by that android Lex). As for ideas about the future, I have plenty of them and none of them have anything to do with Hyphy or the Bay Area. I'm also not entirely sure what y'all think old writers should do other than STOP. Well sorry, I ain't fucking stopping for anyone (although I was considering it after this year) - this thread has most emphatically made me even more convinced I should carry on forever just to piss some of you folk off! Sorry.
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 13:51 (thirteen years ago) link
lollll
― dronestorm (electricsound), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 13:52 (thirteen years ago) link
omg
― markers (crüt) (markers) (crüt) (markers) (crüt) (markers), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 13:56 (thirteen years ago) link
nicely done acoleuthic!
― Neil Kulkarni, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 13:57 (thirteen years ago) link
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnZNk2zmOVPlCY5EFCRH_pVS75GRUBBtI1Qi3Rge2drkFhRnw&t=1&usg=__olx3jUl5sumAgDzFupjO-4ATMAU=
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 13:58 (thirteen years ago) link
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Wednesday, October 27, 2010 7:14 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
so by 'tediously consistent' you meant 'in one instance'
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 13:59 (thirteen years ago) link
slthough - how come y'all is acceptable but 'there's' isn't?
oh god, forgot what arguing with subs was like. I'll shut up now!
― Neil Kulkarni, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:00 (thirteen years ago) link
y'all agree to subject-verb disagree
― Kerm, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:03 (thirteen years ago) link
Acoleuthic has just emailed other Quietus staffers who don't read ILX and offered to replace all mentions of the word Salem with the word Skrewdriver. I'm waiting for a ripple of confusion to spread round the room.
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:05 (thirteen years ago) link
one's accepted idiom, one's grammatically incorrect
salthough btw
oh haha, totally gonna add an underscore somewhere in the middle of oOoOO as well
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:08 (thirteen years ago) link
So I can't say there's been? As is there has been? Never knew that.
― Neil Kulkarni, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:09 (thirteen years ago) link
There has been an actual suggestion. There have been actual suggestions. You've been in the game a while, dude.
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:12 (thirteen years ago) link
Always learning! So I can't say eg. There's been a lot of rain recently.
― Neil Kulkarni, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:14 (thirteen years ago) link
It's like I'm watching recombinant DNA in action here.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:14 (thirteen years ago) link
Oh you can. It's one lot, after all.
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:15 (thirteen years ago) link
AHA! So I couldn't say 'There's been loads of rain recently'. It's the plural that prevents the apostrophe, no?
oh, and Ned, I know what y'mean man but this guy's a goldmine
― Neil Kulkarni, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:18 (thirteen years ago) link
'There's been loads of rain recently' would be technically incorrect, yes, although in practice the word 'loads' has taken on an idiomatically singular meaning in modern English, so may pass my red pen unscathed.
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:21 (thirteen years ago) link
There have been loads of rain sounds wrong yeah. But I think I follow you, honest (although whether I'll be able to put it into practice is another matter, old habits n'all that)
― Neil Kulkarni, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:23 (thirteen years ago) link
I love proof-reading as well so may I interject that the punctuation mark before "this thread" in the last sentence looks suspiciously like a hyphen when it should be an em dash.
― margana (anagram), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:25 (thirteen years ago) link
Longest LJ troll setup evah.
― Kerm, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:27 (thirteen years ago) link
If it was a hyphen, there wouldn't be a space either side of it.
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:28 (thirteen years ago) link
There was one hyphen I removed, however, in 'Bay-Area'; as one cannot strike-through a hyphen, I merely replaced it with a space.
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:29 (thirteen years ago) link
no what I mean is he has used the hyphen character, when he should have used the em dash (or possibly en dash) character, both of which are longer than the hyphen (typographically speaking).
xp
― margana (anagram), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:30 (thirteen years ago) link
Anagram, one falls into easy habits. Microsoft Word automatically replaces a spaced hyphen with an em dash, and ILX does not. Hence, I am liberal on such failings here (although I'd expect better in a word document or published article).
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:32 (thirteen years ago) link
LJ, if you're expecting every word doc you sub to have correct em dash usage, you are in for a lifetime of disappointment
― Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:40 (thirteen years ago) link
What's the keyboard shortcut for an em dash?
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Argh I just made the screen text smaller but didn't get my dash :(
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:43 (thirteen years ago) link
alt + 0151
― margana (anagram), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Today's industry standard is to avoid spaces on either side of em dashes.
This is blowing my mind, along with the fact that what I've always thought to be the correct dash is a spaced en dash.
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:47 (thirteen years ago) link
Oh fuck! Get this:
word space dash (or dash dash) space word space = spaced en dash
word dash dash word space = unspaced em dash
Microsoft Word, you fuck with me. I've been doing this wrong all my life :(
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:49 (thirteen years ago) link
Today's industry standard is to avoid spaces on either side of em dash
if only
i think yall are confusing n- and m-dashes tho
― make em say ukhh (history mayne), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:51 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, I think that article is for the US. UK magazines usually have spaced en dashes.
― portrait of velleity (woof), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:51 (thirteen years ago) link
Traditionally an em dash—like so—or a spaced em dash — like so — has been used for a dash in running text. The Canadian The Elements of Typographic Style recommends the more concise spaced en dash – like so – and argues that the length and visual magnitude of an em dash "belongs to the padded and corseted aesthetic of Victorian typography." The spaced en dash is also the house style for certain major publishers (Penguin, Cambridge University Press, and Routledge among them, all British). However, some longstanding typographical guides such as The Chicago Manual of Style still recommend unspaced em dashes for this purpose. The Oxford Guide to Style (2002, section 5.10.10) acknowledges that the spaced en dash is used by "other British publishers", but states that the Oxford University Press—like 'most US publishers'—uses the unspaced em dash. In practice, there is little consensus, and it is a matter of personal or house taste; however, U.S. usage tends toward the em over the en for this usage.
― margana (anagram), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:53 (thirteen years ago) link
The Oxford Guide to Style (2002, section 5.10.10) acknowledges that the spaced en dash is used by "other British publishers", but states that the Oxford University Press—like 'most US publishers'—uses the unspaced em dash.
represent. only who gives a shit what most US publishers do.
― make em say ukhh (history mayne), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:54 (thirteen years ago) link
LJ, you missed an absence of a dot at the end of an "i.e." that should possibly have been an "e.g."
and meanwhile, I missed the opportunity to find better things to do with my time, but hey, I'm only in the office
In Word (on Windows) you can get an em dash by holding Alt Gr (the right-hand Alt key) and pressing the - on the numeric keypad, if you have one. I find the spaced en dash less distracting than a real unspaced em dash, but I don't know the shortcut for that; I just have to hope Word's auto-changer kicks in.
What am I doing on a hip hop beef thread? Good question.
― what is he like? the guy's a juggalo, man (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:56 (thirteen years ago) link
Just testing y'all. (Shit shit shit!)
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 14:59 (thirteen years ago) link
That's the sub's life. Always someone waiting to spot something you've missed.
This is now the hyphen & dash discussion thread.
on Macs, of course, option + hyphen/minus = en-dash, shift + option + hyphen/minus = em-dash
― portrait of velleity (woof), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 15:01 (thirteen years ago) link
So..er, anyway the Simply Red piece is good.
http://thequietus.com/articles/05168-in-defence-of-simply-red-picture-book-mick-hucknall
― piscesx, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 15:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Haha. Sorry for picking holes in things written during the frantic scrum of trying to hit send on ILX before 6000 xposts sweep the thread into a different direction of shitstorm. Now, about those dashes...
(xp)
― what is he like? the guy's a juggalo, man (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 15:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Think there's one em-dash amid the en-dashes of that Simply Red piece.
― portrait of velleity (woof), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 15:23 (thirteen years ago) link
I would change "characterise" to "characterize" as well. It's a misconception that "-ise" is British English while "-ize" is American, "-ize" is the preferred spelling because it follows the Greek root -izo.
― margana (anagram), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 15:40 (thirteen years ago) link
I feel like I'm not in playschool any more.
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 15:49 (thirteen years ago) link
I would change "characterise" to "characterize" as well. It's a misconception that "-ise" is British English while "-ize" is American, "-ize" is the preferred spelling because it follows the Greek root -izo.― margana (anagram), Wednesday, October 27, 2010 4:40 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
― margana (anagram), Wednesday, October 27, 2010 4:40 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
again, oxford fucks with the z
― make em say ukhh (history mayne), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 15:50 (thirteen years ago) link
hahaha man i'm an "old head" ;_;
oh well guess i am but would prefer "O.G." to be honest.
anyway man i don't have the energy to muster another hip hip clusterfuck.
but yeah i tend to stay in my lane pretty much.
― S Beez Wit the Remedy (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 15:51 (thirteen years ago) link
*hip HOP
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 15:52 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, Oxford University Press and The Times "fuck with the z" for everything iirc.
Etymological justifications regarding the Greek -izein have a point, but that's also some marshy territory if you're looking for a general rule. You end up worrying about a split between Greek words vs French loan words ending in -iser for a bit before you remember how many words came to us through both in turn, or neither at all. Do you have to second-guess for new formations whether the person who coined the word picked the ending by analogy to a classical word or a French word or neither?
(old bore in rocking chair.jpg)
― what is he like? the guy's a juggalo, man (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 16:02 (thirteen years ago) link
In my job I talk to kids about pop music way more than I talk to anyone on here. Those kids are mostly faster, funnier and sharper than any of the smug baiting I read on ILM.
like a british deej with bad taste.
― avoyoungdro's number (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 16:12 (thirteen years ago) link
if you're gonna get all greek, then it would be "xarakterise," cuz there's no C in greek
― kamerad, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 16:15 (thirteen years ago) link
xarakterize
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 16:16 (thirteen years ago) link
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, October 27, 2010 10:52 AM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
early onset alzheimers, sorry
― S Beez Wit the Remedy (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 16:47 (thirteen years ago) link
I have to say Ihave enjoyed the turn this thread has taken. Whether you ignore it or not lj, you have moved to the top of my list of ppl to send my novel to if i ever finish it.
And xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxposts Neil you say you'd prefer people to combat you with different suggestions if they do not care for the ones you selected and then dismiss two whole sub genres out of hand (hyphy and bay area rap).
― O holy ruler of ILF (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 16:59 (thirteen years ago) link
well tbf there's hardly any time for bay area stuff or yung jeezy when there's so much j cole and asher roth to digest
― avoyoungdro's number (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:18 (thirteen years ago) link
wtf with hyphenating "Bay Area" - which refers to the SF Bay Area, which is not hyphenated ... ever.
― sarahel, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:29 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah k3vin stay in your lane wrt hyphenating bro
― S Beez Wit the Remedy (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:29 (thirteen years ago) link
why don't you join the neil kulkarni beef parade xp
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:30 (thirteen years ago) link
too many cooks, LJ, too many cooks
― sarahel, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:31 (thirteen years ago) link
neil kulkarni beef parade
Either a band name or a blog title.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:31 (thirteen years ago) link
or a COGH thread that only KBP posts to
― sarahel, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:32 (thirteen years ago) link
the quietus : the new look : NAG
― O Let's Group Doueh (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:33 (thirteen years ago) link
suzy says her editor says that their tights are better than Chanel
― sarahel, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:36 (thirteen years ago) link
"Neil Kulkarni Beef Parade"? Look, I was young, I needed the work, I was assured it would only be released in South America.
― Neil Kulkarni, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:43 (thirteen years ago) link
there was a band called the Iowa Beef Experience. They were like the Cows...of Iowa.
http://www.amazon.com/Personalien/dp/B000QR35FY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1265758148&sr=8-1-catcorr
― S Beez Wit the Remedy (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 18:44 (thirteen years ago) link
or a COGH thread that only KBP posts to― sarahel, Wednesday, October 27, 2010 7:32 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
― sarahel, Wednesday, October 27, 2010 7:32 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
oh snap
― make em say ukhh (history mayne), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 20:07 (thirteen years ago) link
aren't they all?
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 27 October 2010 20:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Is NAG, Norway's Nihilist Assault Group? (NAG's MySpace)
or
NAG, the National Association of Gals, the charming name Rush Limbaugh has for NOW, the National Association of Women?
I don't know what Nagl or iirc mean either.
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 21:15 (thirteen years ago) link
if I recall correctly it means not a good look
― mr. mandelbrot flythrough vertigo, esq. (Edward III), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 21:18 (thirteen years ago) link
unless you're being faux naive in which case fu
i love how however many years of tuomas has sensitized posters here to faux-naivete
― avoyoungdro's number (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 21:20 (thirteen years ago) link
what do you mean by that, kevin?
― sarahel, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 21:21 (thirteen years ago) link
what's a tuomas? is it like radiation?
― mr. mandelbrot flythrough vertigo, esq. (Edward III), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link
Edward III: When it's a matter of message board ettiquette, it's better to presume I don't know what I'm talking about.
― Duran (Doran), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 21:25 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.premiere.fr/var/premiere/storage/images/diaporama/un-flic-a-la-maternelle/un-flic-a-la-maternelle-kindergarten-cop-1990__5/1873235-1-fre-FR/un_flic_a_la_maternelle_kindergarten_cop_1990_reference.jpg
it's not a tuomas
― O Let's Group Doueh (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 21:25 (thirteen years ago) link
tuomor!!!!
― sarahel, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 21:26 (thirteen years ago) link
"Hip hip --" "Clusterfuck!"
― boxes of mint aeros I have eaten in a week (sic), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 22:40 (thirteen years ago) link
what the fuck is that double hyphen
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 22:41 (thirteen years ago) link
it's an australian thing, you wouldn't understand
― dronestorm (electricsound), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 22:43 (thirteen years ago) link
sincerely regret posting my drunken (and distinctly mean-spirited) "thoughts" in this awful thread. my apologies.
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 22:50 (thirteen years ago) link
it's very unilx to apologize for your misdeeds, sb'd you for that
― mr. mandelbrot flythrough vertigo, esq. (Edward III), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 23:25 (thirteen years ago) link
What is this thread again?
― village idiot (dog latin), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 23:51 (thirteen years ago) link
"rap criticism," butthurtedness, copy editing
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 23:53 (thirteen years ago) link
great, it's dog latin
― jrue (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 23:57 (thirteen years ago) link
lol EIII
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Thursday, 28 October 2010 00:36 (thirteen years ago) link
Doran, some real talk from across the pond. I'm very psyched on this feature
http://thequietus.com/articles/06869-portishead-bakers-dozen
But I'm not psyched to click through 14 things to read it.
― delmar dillinger (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:07 (twelve years ago) link
tell me about it.
besides that's only 2/3rds of portishead and i'd kinda be more interested in hearing beth's than the two fellas.
― jed_, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:17 (twelve years ago) link
Eh that's nothing, this one in Fact today is 30 pages long!
http://www.factmag.com/2011/08/30/30-albums-you-can-still-look-forward-to-in-2011/
― Geirge Hongriot (NickB), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:19 (twelve years ago) link
With like a line of text for each album
― Number None, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
I wonder what Adrian Utley's 50 favorite sneakers are
― delmar dillinger (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:22 (twelve years ago) link
Dudes,
We do this like once a month. Come on, fucking cut me some slack - I have to pay my rent. We don't do advertorial like most of the other sites, we don't do skins or band take overs or have massively intrusive campaigns. Or take money of petrol and car companies and all that stuff.
If you don't want to click a button 13 times don't do it but don't be giving me grief like you have to face the two stone guardians one who always lies and another who always tells the truth before casting the ring into Mount Doom to find out.
And Jed - since when has Beth Gibbons ever done press? It's like complaining about us not getting a JD Salinger interview.
We beg, we plead, we fucking wheedle with all these people to let us interview them properly but some - for whatever reason - won't, they insist on doing it themselves. And then, despite the fact that we've asked for a minimum of 200 words on each record, they come back, like one nonesensical sentence. And do you know why? Because the request will go through a bare minimum of two other people before it gets to the band and I have no idea whether my full message gets passed on or not.
At the end of the day though, I'm still pathetically grateful. We've run about three really lengthy, in depth features on Portishead on the site, and you could just go and read those instead if you wanted - I just wanted to do something different this time.
Speaking personally there were two albums on the list that I've never heard of and I'm going to check out.
You know, if I was less of a man, I'd say fuck the lot of you to everyone who has depressed more than 13 keys to whinge here on a public forum.
But I am a big man. And I have nothing but love for all of you.
I will try as I do every day, to make my site better. Just for you four.
― Death To False Camp (Doran), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
I was actually talking about the FACT list but thanks!
― Number None, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:51 (twelve years ago) link
Ha ha. Ok, sorry. I'm sat dandling my son listening to Val Doonican. I'm actually in a very good mood.
With love baby. With love.
― Death To False Camp (Doran), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:53 (twelve years ago) link
Doran, sorry man, i know these things can be tough to arrange. keep on doing it and i'll shut up. although i would be more interested in the beth's choices just saying that, i've read and seen her interviewed although much less frequently than the other two and even when she is to say that she plays her cards close to her chest would be a huge understatement. all the best.
― jed_, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:56 (twelve years ago) link
Well, I'd attempt to be first in line to interview her if the chance ever arose but it's very much unlikely unfortunately.
I think the main focus of the group not doing interviews is actually quite good from the band's POV - creates mystery and desire - but not so good from my POV unfortunately.
― Death To False Camp (Doran), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 17:59 (twelve years ago) link
And yeah, she's not Thomas Pyncheon but there again we're not MOJO or Rolling Stone either and just wouldn't get any time with her.
― Death To False Camp (Doran), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:00 (twelve years ago) link
Doran we've had a few convos about site design like this before (especially on the rap threads since sites like Complex tend to be the worst offenders with clickthroughs on their rap listicles) -- i'm just reposting something i said on the matter once as food for thought, not to argue with you because honestly it is nice to at least have someone from a site that trades in this practice defend it in somewhat understandable terms:
borkslovethewu (some dude) wrote this on thread DJ QUIK - THE BOOK OF DAVID - 2010 on board I Love Music on Apr 10, 2011
like if you want people to consume your work in a way that financially benefits you, then there's kind of a social contract that demands you not be too obnoxious about making them jump through extra hoops to get it
― lil dawg (some dude), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:05 (twelve years ago) link
Doran, having run a site very similar to yours in America, I can def empathize with artists coming back with short or terse answers to questions or requests. You shouldn't be faulted for that, and anyone who blames you for not talking to Beth Gibbons is an entitled idiot.
However, honestly, pushing some nickel-and-dime clickthough scam over the readability of your website is just straight clowning your readers, it makes US do the work.
It was a very cool article, though, and I was happy to read it. Sorry if I'm bumming you out. :/
― delmar dillinger (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:11 (twelve years ago) link
im surprised you guys are selling ads on clicks and not uniques!
― max, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:23 (twelve years ago) link
Whiney and all: Well it's a fair cop. When we get someone like Chino Moreno or Morrissey telling us his 13 favourite albums it can really give us some breathing space to not have to hit targets with extra reviews and mad news stories or competitions that keep us in the office past midnight or whatever.
We know that you lot are in the right as regards to the letter of the law but we'd like to see it as a very, very minor transgression. Ideally we won't always do stuff as a click through but for now, once in a while we don't mind.
We're in the middle of saving to get the site redesigned, which will make the gallery feature a lot nicer. Basically it works on thumbnails but it's better than that makes it sound.
I mean, after all we did our first end of year lists as a click through gallery and we deserved the bollocking we got for that. It was bloody chicanery, pure and simple.
My bottom line is that we're obviously on a different side of the fence from all the click fodder music sites like Clash and Artrocker or whatever.
That said, if this is GENUINELY becoming some kind of ideological thing then I will think about stopping doing it sooner rather than later.
No one's bumming me today. I'm full of coffee and the joys of late Summer.
Max: Our advertising - which is the bane of my life - is always in a state of flux and we sell on a number of different ways. None of them are click throughs per se but some of them are done on page impressions instead of unique users.
― Death To False Camp (Doran), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
bet that's the first time anyone's ever used the phrase "someone like Chino Moreno or Morrissey"
― lil dawg (some dude), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
I'll bet Iron Maiden have said it to their manager recently: "What's all this about Metallica and Lou Reed... We should do this... Can't you get us someone like..."
― Death To False Camp (Doran), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 18:44 (twelve years ago) link
POWERSMITH
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
this thing abt a 'social contract' still seems weird to me. if you dont like it, dont read it
― D-40, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
Doran - love Thequietus, really appreciate the balance between my old punk/post-punk faves and new artists. I'd gladly spend some dosh to support the site, why don't you offer up some compilation CDs or something?
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 19:40 (twelve years ago) link
Cheers dude! Much appreciated.
We're actually going to do a thing with limited run vinyl next year but we've got to wait until we can do a really good job of it.
We'd love to do an annual or a quarterly but again, we'd only do it if we could put out something really well produced.
― Death To False Camp (Doran), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 20:32 (twelve years ago) link
'Girlfriend In A Medieval Torture Instrument'
― Death To False Camp (Doran), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 20:33 (twelve years ago) link
Okay this is now the second thread in which we've been creating Morrissey/Maiden song titles in the last two days. Impressive ILM.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 20:37 (twelve years ago) link
It'll never happen. Bringing your daughter to the slaughter is death for no reason, and death for no reason is murder.
― Geirge Hongriot (NickB), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 20:40 (twelve years ago) link
Run To The Hillside Desolate
― Death To False Camp (Doran), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 20:46 (twelve years ago) link
When did Thequietus do away with comments? Was there something that precipitated it or just an acknowledgement that they weren't very useful?
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 19:19 (six years ago) link
I just noticed that today. Maybe it's still available if you have an account? There are 56 comments for this recent article but I can't see them since I'm not logged in.
― Dinsdale, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 20:16 (six years ago) link
For good? Recently. Within the last fortnight. Nothing in particular. It was essentially left to me to moderate them and after a decade of near constant unpleasantness and tons of spam I'd just had enough.
We had a trial run a couple of years ago and I outlined the reasons for a short piece in the Guardian.
We've had a few ideas on how to improve the situation but for all the effort it's going to take I just don't see the point.
― Doran, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 22:15 (six years ago) link
maybe i don't visit often enough but this is an... odd review right?
http://thequietus.com/articles/24917-drake-scorpion-album-review
― devvvine, Monday, 16 July 2018 14:42 (five years ago) link
yeah that is odd. Tommy Monroe's two other reviews are equally strange, not sure what the deal is
― ufo, Monday, 16 July 2018 14:50 (five years ago) link
bring your kid to work day was my first guess
― devvvine, Monday, 16 July 2018 14:51 (five years ago) link
huh...
― Gâteau Superstar (dog latin), Monday, 16 July 2018 14:56 (five years ago) link
that was too harsh of me but just seems very off the house style
― devvvine, Monday, 16 July 2018 15:09 (five years ago) link
loool, i smell jolly japes here tbh
― imago, Monday, 16 July 2018 15:28 (five years ago) link
Terrible review. Sounds like the writer is describing a can of Pepsi they’re drinking. Absolutely tells you nothing about how it sounds or content etc
― Ross, Monday, 16 July 2018 15:35 (five years ago) link
Finally, early Pitchfork reviewing is back in vogue
― PaulTMA, Monday, 16 July 2018 16:09 (five years ago) link
that's a joke guys
― ogmor, Monday, 16 July 2018 17:15 (five years ago) link
if it's a joke, they've been playing the long con https://twitter.com/TommyMonroe_
― devvvine, Monday, 16 July 2018 17:20 (five years ago) link
Men that allow other men walk through the door first are the real gentlemen.— T O M M Y (@TommyMonroe_) July 16, 2018
:D
― imago, Monday, 16 July 2018 17:36 (five years ago) link
Pusha T has a discography filled with lyrics about drugs. On “The Game We Play,” he gives a shoutout the drug dealers—the people behind the scenes— “the names they fade”. This song is for people like El Chapo. ”This is the drug money your ex nigga claim he made” will have many girlfriends asking their man why he isn’t making drug money. With the message behind this song, he shows respect for drug dealers, and the profession (Yes, the profession) of drug dealing.
― devvvine, Monday, 16 July 2018 17:43 (five years ago) link
i was certain it was a joke but reading through his twitter TL it really seems like a long and weird way to go for some simple-ass parody
― imago, Monday, 16 July 2018 17:46 (five years ago) link
it would usually have to be funny to be a successful parody really
― Gâteau Superstar (dog latin), Monday, 16 July 2018 22:08 (five years ago) link
As The Quietus sometimes does Mr. Agreeable reboots it's no surprise that it's intended humour has a tendency to leave one's sides intact
― PaulTMA, Monday, 16 July 2018 22:36 (five years ago) link
back with a banger...
Travis Scott invites a league of top-rate collaborators to the album. Unlike most artists who would like to utilize featured guests to the maximum, Scott takes a different approach. There are many contributors on the album, some even unmentioned. The interesting thing about his approach is, on songs like ‘Stop Trying To Be God’, ‘Skeletons’, and ‘Yosemite’ for example, not all the guests play major vocal roles in singing as they might usually do. This genius approach by Scott leads to a blend of so many sounds, vocals that act as condiments on these songs.
http://thequietus.com/articles/25096-travis-scott-astroworld-review
― devvvine, Monday, 27 August 2018 16:42 (five years ago) link
this guy keeps following and unfollowing me on twitter and i'm like......my dude
― austinb, Monday, 27 August 2018 22:46 (five years ago) link
http://thequietus.com/articles/25121-graham-lambkin-interview
nice write up on Graham Lambkin
― braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 20:35 (five years ago) link
Happy 10th Anniversary!The Top 100 Albums Of The Quietus' Existence, As Picked By tQ's Writers
― willem, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 09:23 (five years ago) link
Nothing Important is in my decade top 2 as well! Good shout Quietus
― imago, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 09:24 (five years ago) link
superb stuff; great list and an awesome number 1
looking forward to delving into all the records i hadn't heard b4 (after revisiting field of reeds first :) )
― nxd, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 09:30 (five years ago) link
interesting list at the very least with the occasional completely bizarre pick, like i would have never imagined the quietus would rep for travis scott's birds in the trap sing mcknight, of all things?
― ufo, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 09:55 (five years ago) link
agree with a lot on the list but the travis pick is ludicrous, especially considering all the artists he ripped off have made better albums/tapes. the us rap picks being kendrick/kanye/travis/death grips is so "i don't like rap but _____", really just missing run the jewels.
― devvvine, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 13:20 (five years ago) link
great site for 10 years
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 3 October 2018 13:59 (five years ago) link
ah reading again this list was voted on by everyone who's ever contributed to the site, unlike the end of year lists which are compiled only by the 5 core staff. that explains why it's in some ways a lot less distinctive than i would have expected for a quietus list, but still doesn't explain travis scott showing up
― ufo, Thursday, 4 October 2018 07:33 (five years ago) link
that claim can't be true cos I contributed a few reviews to the quietus and they never contacted me for this article, the bastards :)
― the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Thursday, 4 October 2018 07:54 (five years ago) link
ditto, but without the emoji.
― mark e, Thursday, 4 October 2018 08:20 (five years ago) link
Twelve years old and a subscription model to help the site continue -- as well as get a slew of bonuses -- is now live:
https://thequietus.com/articles/28833-the-quietus-subscriptions-birthday
Think about it, won't you? (So I can write even more for them. :-D )
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 September 2020 15:49 (three years ago) link
oh yes will do that now
― nxd, Tuesday, 29 September 2020 09:55 (three years ago) link
tQ needs a subscriber boost -- if you can contribute, please do!
https://thequietus.com/articles/32853-quietus-subscriber-discount
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 20 April 2023 16:10 (eleven months ago) link
I uhm ... doubt that I'm the only Quietus reader over 40. Why then the eyechart typeface
― what you say is true but by no means (lukas), Wednesday, 17 January 2024 22:44 (two months ago) link
To make you work for your edification. :-D
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 January 2024 00:12 (two months ago) link
The Quietus is one of those websites that doesn't specify a typeface. So if you go into your browser settings, change the default typeface and reload the site you should find something more to your liking.
― lord of the rongs (anagram), Thursday, 18 January 2024 06:21 (two months ago) link