Dylan's Christian period

I listened to Saved today for the first time and thought it was fantastic. "What Can I Do For You?" in particular stood out, with some of the best harmonica playing on a Bob record, like up there with Live 1966. And the groove is top-notch throughout the album (the rhythm section is Tim Drummond and Jim Keltner). But we seem to have no general thread about this period on ILM. So let's talk about it. I'm thinking of the recorded legacy of this period as the three albums Slow Train Coming, Saved and Shot of Love. Infidels is arguably part of it too, and in fact I personally think this period never ended but that's not important for this thread. What songs do you think are particularly great from this period, and why? Are there live performances that you think are great? I have a show from New Orleans from 1981 and a boot comp called Yonder Comes Sin, but I'd like to know others worth attending to. Any thoughts you have about this period (including hate as long as you can back it up) are welcome.

Toronto 1980 (all Jesus songs), Earl's Court 1981 (mix of Jesus songs and older stuff) are the best of the ones I've heard. Really like the live stuff from this period! "When He Returns" is a fave, as is "Ain't Gonna Go To Hell For Anybody."

Also, "Angelina" from the Bootleg Series is one of my fave Dylan songs, period.

"Solid Rock" and "Every Grain of Sand" are the keepers. Dylan himself (and Bono) adores Shot of Love's title track.

Agreed that Saved is fantastic. Gospel Dylan is just fine by me. Personally I think his singing in this period is about as good as he ever got - it's the sweet spot when his voice was grizzled enough that he doesn't have to force it (like on his very early albums, where you think his barely post-pubescent voice is going to crack when he tries to growl like an old bluesman) but before the last intact vocal cords snapped somewhere around the late 80s/early 90s. I love his intonation and phrasing here, the band is on fire, the backup singers are a perfect foil, and he rarely rocked harder than on tracks like "Solid Rock".

I got Slow Train Coming about a year ago and love it. which is weird cuz in general I'm not a fan of this particular production/arrangement style but the plastic-y 80s vibe coupled with a sleazy-sounding Dylan in born again preacher mode really works.

love Gotta Serve Somebody especially

Those are all beautiful songs. On the album take of "When He Returns", Dylan sounds like he's going to break down, and with lyrics like those, it's clear he was going through something heavy.

"Truth is an arrow and the gate is narrow that it passes through."

Is that an outtake from the KJV? "Verily I tell you..." I mean: truth is an arrow, that is, sharp, piercing, it flies fast, and it's shot by someone. There are deep mysteries there. Why is it shot at the gate? If this is speaking of the trajectory of faith, then the narrowness of the gate shouldn't be a concern since the arrow is going to pass through anyway. And then the echoes of Augustine's conversion ("how long, how long"):

"How long can I listen to the lies of prejudice?
How long can I stay drunk on fear out in the wilderness?"

Dylan is exhausted; it's why if we were drinking I'd be arguing that Street-Legal is really the start of the Christian period, that "Changing of the Guards" announces the change ("Eden is burning").

Saw him in May 1980 in Providence, just before Saved came out. Almost everything he played was from that album and Slow Train Coming. It was a great show — the band absolutely smoked — even though I couldn’t make out his damnation/hellfire speeches between songs due to the poor acoustics. For the last song, “Pressing On,” he took the microphone and started dancing in front of the stage. It wasn’t exactly a representative Dylan show, but it was my first.

"Gotta Serve Somebody," however is a stupid song.

xpost haha, yeah there are a few truly wacky apocalyptic rants on bootlegs. On that 1980 Toronto set, he starts explaining how Russia invading Afghanistan is all predicted in the bible.

Gotta Serve Somebody," however is a stupid song.

I don't think it's that bad - but I prefer "Precious Angel" and "I Believe in You" from that album.

stupid? I like the resignation in it.

Yeah, like a fuckin' slave. And, man, I love that period's studio-rock, but Dylan's backing band here defines antiseptic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXd25Jqi7G0

I love Dylan's deadpan delivery on "Gotta Serve Somebody", especially as the rhymes get a little funnier towards the end, eg. the way he sings "milk" and "bread" in this:

Might like to wear cotton, might like to wear silk,
Might like to drink whiskey, might like to drink milk,
You might like to eat caviar, you might like to eat bread,
You may be sleeping on the floor, sleeping in a king-sized bed

I don't take Dylan as a theologian particularly seriously. As far as the lyrics go from this period, what I like is how mystified Dylan seems by what he's saying. There's conviction there, but whatever he experienced, his lyrical voice was having trouble expressing.

I like the music on Saved a lot more than on Slow Train Coming, on the whole. I think Wexler understood Dylan's vision better on this one.

Shot of Love > Slow Train Coming > Saved

and yeah, the humor on Slow Train Coming is puzzling in the context of this, like, topically heavy album. "Man Gave Names To All The Animals" is a dopey lyric, like a Basement Tapes lyric without the double entendres. But it's still good for a simple laugh. It's corny but that's our Bob.

"Shot of Love > Slow Train Coming > Saved" seems to be the conventional wisdom and I get why that is, but anyone reading who has ears, let them hear Saved again. Although I've tried for years to buy it on CD and never succeeded in finding it.

Has "Saved" been remastered? I've actually never owned it! My older brother had it ...

eMusic has Saved - but I don't know if it's been remastered. I think Saved is better than Slow Train - and the production is definitely a lot less sterile.

I remember hating "Gotta Serve Somebody" in 1979, but I heard it on the radio the other night and thought it sounded great. I love the combination of the air-tight production and that creepy, menacing vocal. I've always resisted getting these albums but I might have to add them on eMusic.

I love the combination of the air-tight production and that creepy, menacing vocal.

yeah this is the kinda contrast (intentional or not) that finally got me to appreciate Steely Dan - this shiny, sleek, perfectly constructed light pop that's set against an actively creepy but sorta funny narrative/singer

Dylan's music is missing the harmonic complexity and jazzy solos of the Steely Dan though - with this kind of production it ends up sounding more like Dire Straits than Steely Dan, unfortunately.

I generally like the slickness of Slow Train, I think it does have a kind of menace to it.

Elsewhere, some of the surreal, Book of Revelations meets Highway 61 lyrics are really incredible -- stuff like the aforementioned 'Angelina', "Caribbean Wind", "Foot of Pride", "Jokerman" etc. Really weird, ambitious writing ...

yeah I'm going to make an extended dive into Bob's 80s this week I think, looking for more of the confusion that's grabbing me on these. By the 2000s I think he's figured out his new lyrical voice and that's probably my favorite Bob overall but I'm intrigued at present by the struggle for a new voice after Street-Legal (I need a copy of Budokan too I think).

Budokan has its moments, but overall it's pretty limp. The later US 1978 tour is waaaay better. Look for the Hush Sweet Charlotte bootleg ...

Dylan's music is missing the harmonic complexity and jazzy solos of the Steely Dan though - with this kind of production it ends up sounding more like Dire Straits than Steely Dan, unfortunately.

OTM -- what I was trying to say upthread.

sounding more like Dire Straits than Steely Dan, unfortunately.

def. the sound of Dire Straits (dunno how unfortunate that is)

A sound I would, of course, expect from the producer of Slow Train Coming.

No, wait -- Knopfler didn't produce STC.

Wexler ennit. altho Dylan specifically was going for Knopfler's sound and wanted him originally iirc

Doesn't Knopfler play on Slow Train, though? Or am I making that up.

He sure does, which explains my confusion (he did produce Infidels).

I said that Wexler better figures out Dylan's vision on Saved than on Slow Train Coming, but a better way to put what I was trying to express is: Wexler helped Dylan realize a better sound for the vision Dylan had, such as they understood it, on Saved than on Slow Train Coming. Dylan may not have agreed, since he dumped Wexler for Plotkin on Shot of Love and then, yeah, Knopfler for Infidels.

This topic has provided the only praise that I have ever seen for the 'Christian' period of Bob Dylan.

I think you'll find that serious (haha) Dylan fans have plenty of good stuff to say about this period. Obviously the evangelism of the lyrics is always going to be a turn-off for some, but it really is a fascinating time for Dylan.

The cover art is great too:

http://www.earthwaverecords.com/pictures/albumimg/d/a0115351.jpg

haha, that cover is nutso. you'd think it was some super-obscure private-press xtian rock record from 1977. But no, it's a BOB DYLAN record.

There's conviction there, but whatever he experienced, his lyrical voice was having trouble expressing.

That sounds about right. The songs seem to be either literal renderings of scripture or these terrifically confused metaphors.

Count me as a fan of Budokan (since someone referenced it upthread)--to a point. It seems like a bit of a conceptual coup, actually: rendering his '60s songs, including some protest numbers, as fully-arranged, showstopping Vegas numbers. Actually it sort of anticipates his Perry Como-esque Xmas album in its nonchalant mindfuckery.

Also, I thought the brief segment w/Christian Bale in I'm Not There captured this era of Dylan pretty well/amusingly. Although I am not a big fan of that film as a whole.

Yeah, I actually thought that the I'm Not There/Christian (!) Bale segment was the most successful in that movie. Just the utter sincerity of Bale's performance caught something vital about this period in Dylan's career. Of course, the sincerity is just another mask, but it's maybe one of the more convincing masks.

you guys are nuts that movie is awesome

"look its Allen Ginsberg!"

oh i liked it! it's like catnip for Dylan nerds.

did you guys catch moondog in the greenwich village sequence??

i've been trying to get my gf (not a Dylan nerd) to watch it so I can get a neutral assessment

yeah i honestly don't think anyone not steeped (DEEPLY steeped) in Dylan lore would get a whole lot out of the movie. Maybe I'm wrong ...

Film nerds, maybe ...

btw i'm not kidding about moondog, haynes sticks a guy in a moondog costume in one of the quick panning shots of the early '60s village. i kind of want to hug haynes for that.

I saw the film with two folks I wouldn't really characterize as Dylan nerds (ie, my wife and an old gay buddy of ours) and they both really dug it. They don't hate his music or anything but they're hardly obsessives (y'know my wife has some sorta weird childhood associations with Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, buddy likes early 70s Dylan, etc.)

I think I was the only one of the three of us who was excited about all the detail/ephemera tho.

and yeah I spotted Moondog

yeah it's possible that I actually didn't appreciate the movie as a "movie" just because of the Dylan trivia overload that is practically every frame.

I didn't enjoy it as much the second time - it kinda lacks some narrative motion, there's no real arc to it. But it is fun and I love that Haynes does this kind of thing (I am also a big fan of Velvet Goldmine)

it was real splashy and my immediate reaction was overstimulation and enthusiasm, but within minutes i was like, "what was that all about?" and my impression began to sour. i should see it again.

I've still not seen the film (or heard the soundtrack, though I'm less excited about the latter---I fell for too many tributes in the 90s)...mostly because I don't watch any films these days. I'll try to check it out in the next few years, though; I've heard lots good about it.

Soundtrack has some duds, but is overall pretty good. Willie Nelson w/ Calexico doing "Senor" is probably my fave.

oh "Angelina" is really great, isn't it? The organ playing is terrific, and overall the playing is very sympathetic to what Dylan is trying to get across: a lament, presumably for a woman; but it's much more sympathetic to the woman than his 60s songs about women (and more sympathetic than the Blood on the Tracks too I think). Her relationship with God is confusing Dylan: she's surrounded by God's angels, but she doesn't seek God, exactly. But Bob isn't sure about his relationship to her: she can read his mind, but she's wearing a blindfold too. There is too much occlusion, but he'll do anything for her in God's truth.

oh man it's so good.
Do I need your permission to turn the other cheek?
If you can read my mind, why must I speak?

A Better Contract: November 16, 1979 @ Warfield, SF...wow. Dylan's singing on "I Believe In You" sounds like it comes from a very deep place, like crying somehow expressed as a moaning shout. There are none of the "greatest hits" on this show: just the new gospel songs, and the playing is hot; not so different from the 1978 live sound (that we talked about sorta recently on the Street-Legal thread), but more focused. The crowd seems into it, too!

What ferocious courage he has! his preaching at the end of "Precious Angel", going into "Slow Train", about how the world is going to be destroyed & Christ is going to set up his kingdom in Jerusalem for a thousand years; & after the crowd erupts he asks, "Do you believe those things?" and they just shout back, & it's hard to tell what they really think. But I'd gather that a typical Dylan show in San Francisco is not going to attract a lot of people believing those things. It's pretty in-your-face!

i don't think i've heard that one -- is it a good recording?
euro tour from 1981 is probably the best gospel-era tour recordings I've heard.

The only boot from that era I have is Rock Solid - the Massey Hall 1980 show. Absolute stunner.

yeah, that's a killer show -- the 81 stuff is a little less fire n brimstone (he mixes in older material), but the arrangements/band are very nice.

The recording is pretty ace, as far as I can hear---they could put it on a Bootleg Series. Actually a comp of this with the Massey Hall show would make a great Bootleg Series.

yeah, a gospel bootleg series would be welcome. one of the rare pre neverending tour eras not represented by a live album ... guess there's no official petty/dylan live album.

The 30th anniversary show is a Dylan/Petty show of sorts, no?

well, it's not from the period when they were touring together -- 1986-87, I think? 30th anniversary thing is 92, right?

ah, ok---and anyway they only play together on a few songs.

i dl'd something recently that was a SF show from 1980 w/ Jerry Garcia sitting in on a few tracks. Haven't listened yet, but a cool setlist. I'll see if I can dig up the link for it.

I'll highly recommend this 1979 show: high energy, great guitar work (I guess by a guy from Little Feat?).

yeah, it's a cool band - spooner oldham, jim keltner, tim drummond ... buncha top notch 70s session dudes.

Euler did you find this online somewhere or is it a physical boot?

If it's online, please point us in that direction.

I checked Dime, it's there but there are no seeders at the moment.

http://www.dylannl.nl/Live-1979/1040-1979-11-16-San-Francisco/View-details.html

Thanks Tyler!

that site is sort of weird to navigate, but it's pretty comprehensive

I'm currently reading Volume 2 of Clinton Heylin's Songs of Bob Dylan, and I'm at the Born Again part. That era makes for pretty samey reading, but I was shocked at how little I knew Slow Train Coming and especially Saved. I'm incapable of considering Shot Of Love with anything approaching objectivity as it was my first Dylan album and I loved it then and still. I put Saved on for the first time in years yesterday, and man, it is great.

There was talk of one of the gospel gigs being recorded for a potential live album release, it's bootlegged as Rock Solid and was recorded in Toronto 1980. From everything i've read about them, the Warfield shows could come up with an outstanding Bootleg Series between them.

yeah, I got it online; tyler's link looks good! I might try the other Warfield shows too; reading around, they're evidently legendary, and I can see why: the one I was writing about yesterday is smoking.

Thanks Tyler/Euler!

Okay, this is great

Yep this boot is amazing. The band is so good that when the gospel stuff finishes i'm getting pretty bored by the solo acoustic Tambourine and Times.

aaaaactually these songs are from a different show aren't they?

Yes! Those "bonus tracks" are from a 1976 show, btw.

i did think he was being surprisingly fan friendly with that hit filled encore

kind of rad that dylan's most famous "christian" song is pretty much the sleaziest sounding thing he's ever written.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FavBDpg91gA&feature=related
especially this version. the tuxes add a certain something.

who is that on the axe? that's some hair! also Crosby is shaking some mad tambourine

think that's fred tackett from little feat...he was dylan's live guitarist for the gospel years i think...

I remember Gotta Serve Somebody and Precious Angel playing on the radio when I was fishing around 1980. I haven't heard either since, but I remember them very clearly. Found the former heavy handed sermonising, but compelling, and precious angel delightful.

just watched that clip of the sleaze, jeez yes, women in cages. playing in tails gives it real bite.
Relistening to Precious Angel, the verses lack urgency, just that up and down dylan vacuum cleaner thing, but chorus remains sweet gospel heaven

amazing clip, nice find tyler

sooo... how do Saved and Shot of Love compare to Slow Train Coming? Do they have a similar sound? It's funny to me how exhaustive all the wikipedia entries for Dylan's other albums are, and then you get to those two and there's, like, a paragraph. Finding youtubes for this material is proving difficult, but I'm curious to hear them...

saved seems more... christiany. sonically. i think because of the nature of some of the songs? whereas slow train seems a lot more blues-groovy.

i've only just started listening to these myself, and they're just so bizarre, sometimes, it's fascinating.

Shot of Love is slapdash and stupid, in the ways that count and the ways that don't ("Lenny Bruce" is one of his worst). I love "Every Grain of Sand" and "The Groom..." but I suspect a remastering will help me savor "Watered-Down Love" and "Trouble."

If it helps, Bono and Dylan both think the title track is one of Dylan's best.

is that due diligence on your part, to include bono in there rather than omitting to mention him?

Just the facts, ma'am.

If it helps, Bono and Dylan both think the title track is one of Dylan's best.

no, actually that does not help. :)

I just directed a play in which (as the script required) one of the characters did a five-minute dance to "Watered-Down Love." It gets good after the 10th listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ9BBwITcO0

that sounds great!

"Lenny Bruce" is one of his worst
i've listened to this song a lot, just because of its mystifying bad-ness, it's just so completely off the mark that i keep thinking that i'm missing some level of irony or something. but it's just sooooo bad!
as noted above in this thread, the best place to go for this period is the bootlegs.

I'm a fan of his piano playing but he can't do a damn thing with "Lenny Bruce."

Def a subject for further study, yall have me going now (re Dire Straits jibes upthread, did anybody point out that two DS actually played on the thing?) thanks for the link to full-length, primo sound and vision Renaldo and Clara, Tyler. It's in Tyler's doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com
brothers and sisters, but use the archive, the searchbox sux. The end of the following take suggests how the transition from Before The Flood/ Blood On The Tracks/Rolling Thunder to fragrant evangelism seems more plausible, after seeing the movie, for a mo perfectly sweeter hindsight:
http://thefreelancementalists.blogspot.com/2012/02/renaldo-and-clara-can-this-marriage-be.html

lol true, i cannot figure out why that searchbox function is so terrible.
annoying, just went searching for video of dylan at massey hall in 1980 -- including a crazy-ass sermon about the apocalypse -- and it's been taken down by the web sheriff. damn you, web sheriff!

Ah messed up the link to Tyler's, sorry, try again
http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/
The full-length Renaldo and Clara seems to be gone from YouTube, "account terminated for repeated violations", there is a 2'25" cur on there, but it's an hour short of the original. Many performances are posted as individual clips. Haven't checked for gospel tour shots. Much later, he was asked if he still believed in those songs. "I do when I'm singing them." Good enough, and should be true of any singer of any song.

Actually, even in the archive, didn't spot your R&C or Eat The Doc links, Tyler--still in there?

oh shit, looks the web sheriff has taken down a ton of the dylan stuff: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/15030243253/renaldo-clara-you-have-3-and-a-half-hours-to = gone
http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/14920161012/eat-the-document-dylans-hallucinatory = gone
bummerz.

sooo... how do Saved and Shot of Love compare to Slow Train Coming? Do they have a similar sound?

Saved is less polished/produced than Slow Train - almost like a live recording. It's also more straight-ahead gospel in style.

web sherriff seems to be a real dick about Dylan stuff in general

Apparently, Slow Train and Saved were recorded with basically the same band, but for the Slow Train sessions, the musicians learned the songs right before recording them, whereas for the Saved sessions, they were recording songs they had already played on tour for a few months.

http://www.punkhart.com/dylan/sessions-4.html

the last time I listened to these I liked Saved more than Slow Train Coming. I think I like both more than Shot of Love although I like the big hits on the latter a whole bunch. Saved is the most open-heartedly-evangelical of the three & so the songwriting is pretty unique for it: no apologies, no obfuscation (it's not just that it might be the Lord, it *is* the Lord!).

I prefer Saved to Slow Train too. I think it sounds great - musically it's one of my favorite Dylan records, and it has some of Dylan's most unselfconscious and emotional singing. I think "Covenant Woman" is one of his best love songs.

thx guys I think I'll track these down

been on a huge Dylan bender this week

Wow, that "Watered Down Love" clip above got pulled already. #OccupyDylan

All 3 of the gospel-period albums are on Spotify, I think. xp

I'm against spotify but thx

this review is sort of ...mean? ungenerous?

not too far into this album but really dug the version of Satisfied Mind, very Mississippi Fred McDowell

and this review is just fucking ridiculous

That Kurt Loder review of Saved is actually one of the better ones I've read of that album. He's pretty well attuned to the vitality of the music and the possibilities of the style, even if at times he lets the preachiness of the lyrics spoil his enjoyment. I've read some very negative reviews of Saved, calling it perhaps his worst album and saying the band sounds lifeless or dull. Loder is at least a bit more evenhanded. That Wenner review of Slow Train is way over the top in its effusiveness, though that album does have its moments.

I like Slow Train Coming a lot but the Wenner adulation is so sad and desperate-sounding

guess I'm in the mainstream but I also find Slow Train pretty awesome and Saved lifeless and dull

What ferocious courage he has! his preaching at the end of "Precious Angel", going into "Slow Train", about how the world is going to be destroyed & Christ is going to set up his kingdom in Jerusalem for a thousand years; & after the crowd erupts he asks, "Do you believe those things?" and they just shout back, & it's hard to tell what they really think.

i dunno, the crowd seems pretty down to be saved.

euler's right, this show is straight fire.

she was a backwoods girl, but she sure was realistic

ha I used this as my Facebook status the other day

i was just looking for this thread but couldn't find it for some reason. was listening to another one of those 1980 warfield shows (an improved source, i think?). an absolutely bonkers groom still waiting at the altar w/ bloomfield guesting on guitar. that song is nuts.

Is there a link, by chance? (yeah you would've posted it but can't resist asking)

here's where I got em http://ow.ly/gru4O http://ow.ly/gru54
great show all around.

Sometimes I feel so low-down and disgusted
Can’t help but wonder what’s happenin’ to my companions

^^^ this song is so sick

Man Gave Names to All the Animals may be my favorite Dylan album-closer

that is crazy talk but i <3 you for it

Dylan himself (and Bono) adores Shot of Love's title track.

(and pj harvey)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bohnF6EqShY

that is crazy talk but i <3 you for it

I guess Desolation Row is a close second

that and "it's all over now baby blue" are the ones that came to mind...

the thing is I am kinda bored with both of those songs by the time they finally end, whereas the ending is actually the best thing about Man Gave Names to All the Animals

btw this is great - http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/47121287935/caribbean-wind-bob-dylan-warfield-theatre

still never heard Shot of Love, couldn't find a dl of it pre-mediafire/megaupload legal meltdown

it's all over slsk

grrrrrrreat toronto full show here [for the time being]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_XTYYFr8Fc

!!! LOVE

the cold open when Dylan and the band kick in is grate

i think this was filmed by howard alk, who did eat the document, hard rain and renaldo and clara w/ dylan. that guy really went through some things with bob!

really is an amazing, passionate performance -- dylan certainly couldn't phone this stuff in or rely on the hits.

I don't recognize a couple things here - are some of these songs on shot of love?

maybe it's just this "Cover Down, Break Through" song I don't know

yeah "ain't gonna go to hell" and "cover down break through" were never unreleased afaik. both pretty great!

who's the bass player here? dude is cracking me up

whoa had never heard ain't gonna go to hell.

tim drummond is the bass player -- james brown, neil young, jj cale etc.

& yeah ain't gonna go to hell is a pretty commercial sounding number -- lord only knows why dylan never released it.

ah yes, Drummond. he just has the funniest wide-legged hunch-n-bob when he gets into it.

"Philosophers like ... Plato... uh, Jimmy Reed"

lol

that show was amazing

omg you guys

http://wonderingsound.com/review/various-artists-tribute-bob-dylan-80s-volume-one/

http://images.emusic.com/music/images/album/148/510/14851006/300x300.jpg

grantland ran a piece about that album and dylan's 80s stuff in general:
http://grantland.com/features/bob-dylan-1980s-albums-tribute-album/

doesnt' really say anything new or terribly interesting. this thread is easily the best thing i've ever read on this period.

the "volume one" on the cover there is ominous.

That tribute is a steaming pile. nigh unlistenable.

i ended up loving Saved! a lot

All about ROCK SOLID for me.

these are both great
http://thousandhighways.blogspot.com/2013/09/still-same-man-volume-one-unreleased.html
http://thousandhighways.blogspot.com/2013/09/still-same-man-volume-two-unreleased.html

i've only heard the built to spill "jokerman" off of the 80s Dylan trib, but i thought it was OK.

That's the highlight. The rest rarely reaches OK.

guess i'm a lil curious to hear the bonnie prince billy "dark eyes"? a little bit?

that grantland piece is pretty infuriating, between conflating early-80s fire-and-brimstone dylan with late-80s dylan-and-the-dead dylan and then ending on this

[Time out of] Mind is a personal favorite, and easily better than anything Dylan did in the ’80s. But it also took Dylan out of commission as a present-tense figure. Now, it’s impossible to imagine him in the same context as Ratt or Kip Winger (or Justin Bieber or YG). His iconic luster was restored, but his humanity — which once beat with the power of blanched synths and tinny drums — became obscured behind sepia-tinted sonics.

as if the five albums since time out of mind have all been muttering abt death in a lanois fog, even when they've been bad

as if songs where he mentions alicia keys have no effect on the clear visibility of his 'humanity'? (not sure even what that would mean but ok)

plus the jack frost "sonics" are prob better + "aliver" than anyone's dylan sonics since tom wilson's

out of commission as a present-tense figure
ha yeah, see that seems exactly what Dylan has been kicking against since TOOM. where that record seemed foggy and out of it (intentionally so, i'd say) his subsequent records have been sharp/feisty as hell.

the dusty past of underwaer and detroit commercials during the superbowl

der dean: http://www.spin.com/reviews/bob-dylan-80s-tribute-comp-ATO/

The songs have been retained but not the sound — that big, terrible ’80s production with the Miami Vice drums, the overbearing backup singers, and the sluggishly steady metronomic synth gurgle that makes the version of “When the Night Comes Falling From the Sky” on Empire Burlesque feel like dying from a torturously slow cocaine overdose

This dude on a ruthless pursuit of cliches.

Xgau liking it only confirms my belief that it's a steaming turd of a record.

Not sure it's a full endorsement.

yeah the 80s cliches come thick and heavy there but damn if the production (and/or mastering) on those 80s dylan records doesn't sound like shit.

steve hyden is easily the worst writer at grantland and was one of the worst at avclub, a more anodyne moody but just as clueless a defender of garbled unexamined cw.

the Miami Vice drums, the overbearing backup singers, and the sluggishly steady metronomic synth gurgle

Cliche or not, this is a pretty accurate description.

plus the jack frost "sonics" are prob better + "aliver" than anyone's dylan sonics since tom wilson's

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I do like the relatively clean, live sound of Jack Frost-era Dylan a lot better than Lanois's highly-produced sound. I don't think he's talking about the recording sound though, he's more talking about the style. I think that Love and Theft was a major creative rebirth for Dylan, but he achieved it by forgetting about sounding modern and going back to his roots.

Cliche or not, this is a pretty accurate description.

right but it's become accepted discourse that "eighties production" means "lots of cocaine produced it." "Miami Vice" is another cliche. "In the Air Tonight" drums don't sound like the Jan Hammer's theme.

I think the point is that those records have a generic bad-'80s sound. "In the Air Tonight" still sounds awesome, IMO.

The singing on the worst eighties recordings is worse than the production imo

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ae88a8e243c2ea0784bbeffdb5c79956/tumblr_n3tutvLNre1qzy30io1_1280.png

woah is that official?

nah, looks like it's a jews for jesus thing that they must've been handing out in front of dylan shows in 1980
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_V4PPJ2v6h8Q/Rt4J9sPtUuI/AAAAAAAABKo/c6GoYxF1px0/s1600/All+Inside.jpg

jews for jesus are the first, they always manage to pick me out of groups of people when i'm walking down the street. i usually scare them away with a preemptive "fuck you."

are the WORST

yes, they suck. must've been a big deal for them when dylan converted.

jews for jesus are the first,

they were that too if you think about it

ha, that is correct! :)

I finally listened to Changing of the Guard: good singing (the choral group is used effectively, for the most part), good music (except for the drums); but lyrics incl brain of homeless prophetic imagery and serenades which start suavely but quickly go so wrong ("Can ya cook and sew, make the flowers grow," he sounds like even he knows this is hopeless as soon as he hears it--and/or he already knew it, but it's still like,) "No? Course not, but come 'ere and show me what you can do, then.") Performance-wise, the most successful (and stylistically, the most unusual here) is "New Pony," which morphs into bizarre bluesoid porn, though not in a good way (to my taste). Overall, sounds like he's really moving toward some desperate change.
(Before this album came out, Renaldo and Clara incl Dyl paying much attention as Ginsberg tells him about Jesus and the ladies---think some of this was from the Apocrypha, but some from the Protestant-approved Gospels).

brain *stew* of homeless, Ah meant to say.

Not that all the lyrics are bad, but this set incl. recurring, off-putting syndromes.

sheiks walkin around like kings

god every line of this song is so bonkers amazing

yes!

i was just listening to that album the other night, it is so great

she was a backwoods girl but she sure was realistic

sons becomin husbands to their mothers

'change my way' a close second, i roffle every time

His eyes were two slits that would make a snake proud
With a face that any painter would paint as he walked through the crowd
Worshipping a god with the body of a woman well endowed
And the head of a hyena

'precious angel' has one of the best

you either got faith or you got unbelief and there ain’t noooooooooooooo neutral ground

I've yet to find a copy of Shot of Love but Saved shouldn't be slept on either - "Pressing On" is great

so is "covenant woman" imo

Yeah, "Covenant Woman" is one of my favorite Dylan love songs.

Dylan to perform on Letterman apparently

maybe he will do Gotta Serve Somebody lol

i can remember staying up to see him play on letterman in the early 90s. he was terrible!
the 80s performance is one of my favorite dylan clips though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkfxa8UYeGo

yeah that's a good one

was that 90s one where he had like Michelle Shocked and K.D. Laing and I forget who else as backup singers, and he mumbled his way through Like a Rolling Stone? (I have clear memories of this performance but forget what it was for)

haha yeah just watched it. the backup choir is wild - michelle shocked, emmylou harris, nanci griffith, mavis staples, rosanne cash.

ah right KD wasn't there, I remember it was just this insane list of great female singers

feel like Dylan's was thinking to himself "words... what are words anyway?" during the whole thing

"People like to talk about the new image of America but to me it's still the old one -- Marlon Brando, James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, it's not computers, cocaine and David Letterman, we gotta get off of that."
- Bob Dylan, Biograph liner notes
boy dylan was wrong about that one... America is computers, cocaine and David Letterman!

Dave interviewed Paul the other night, who mentioned when Dylan appeared in the 80s, the first thing he said to him backstage was "Can you introduce me to Larry 'Bud' Melman?"

yeither got faith or unbelief
thereain't NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO neutral graaaauuuuuuuuooond

Just came across this---haven't listened yet, but looks promising/Promising, and be sure to read the transcribed Bobtalk:
http://www.themidnightcafe.org/?p=4908

xp j that is like the best line and there are so many great lines from this era, I love it

he almost makes me want to become a christian so i can go around judging ppl

all the stuff on 'slow train' about the law is about alimony and taxes, y/n

MIGHT BE WORKING IN A BARBER SHOP YOU MIGHT KNOW HOWTA CUT HAIR.

PEOPLE STARVING AND THIRSTING
GRAIN ELEVATORS ARE BURSTING

GOD DON'T MAKE PROMISES HE DON'T KEEP
YOU GOT SOME BIG DREAMS BABY BUT YOU KNOW THAT TO DREAM YOU GOTTA STILL BE ASLEEP

always think "karl marx has got you by the throat and henry kissinger's got you tied up in knots" is going to be "and henry kissinger's got you by the rocks"

Someone school me on Mr. Dylan, is Knock Out Loaded during or after his Christian period? As a new generation listener, Brownsville Girl, to me, is the best thing he's ever done as it feels the most honest examination of Dylan the myth and Dylan the man he ever recored. From a habitual liar, it strikes the most true. Though much later, Not Dark Yet, is a close second.

Slow Train Coming, Saved and Shot of Love (to a lesser extent) form the christian trilogy (even though a lot of Dylan's other material is ofc also christian in imagery, topics etc.) so the first post-christian period album is, fittingly, Infidels (1983)

Knocked out Loaded (1986) is a terrible post-christian album but Brownsville Girl is a fantastic standout track, believe there are also some cool demos available somewhere - no live versions though afaik

Christian albums are pretty recognizable since they deal in unambiguous terms with christianity, words like satan jesus etc. pop up a lot

Okay, cool thanks. :) More than 30 years removed, the three years starting with Infidels to Knock Out Loaded are more blurred, at least initially to me, than they as distinct as they were at the time. I'm so excited to listen to and wade through all of Dylan, but it is not an insignificant body of work to get your arms around.

GOT A GOD FEARING WOMAN, ONE THAT I CAN AFFORD
SHE CAN DO THE GEORGIA CRAWL, SHE CAN WALK IN THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD

timely revive, was just listening to this bootleg this morning, so good
http://www.bobsboots.com/CDs/cd-s17.html

i like the idea that when dylan is speaking in the name of the LORD his lyrics are in all caps

HEY KILL ME A SON

knocked out loaded is a terrible album but brownsville girls is like top 3 dylan tunes for me, it is amazing

I can still see the day that you came to me on the painted desert
IN YOUR BUSTED DOWN FORD AND YOUR...platform heels

i like (the terrible) "drifting too far from shore" because i imagine it as written to himself. "they killed him" is close to the worst dylan song. "brownsville girl" obv a historic masterpiece. not christian dylan tho no. around the three albums niels mentions there are (as usual) some amaze outtakes-- "foot of pride" maybe the best source of insane ALL CAPS zingers in the period.

singing AMAZING GRACE all the way to THE SWISS BANKS

she'll feed you coconut bread
and spice buns in bed
IF YOU DON'T MIND SLEEPING WITH YOUR HEAD FACE DOWN IN THE PLATE!!!

listening to knocked out loaded right now
and i kinda wonder how much better pro forma blues raveups like "you wanna ramble" would sound w/his current band and production style, minus the gated snare and 80s backing vox etc

you mean without the "Sunglasses at Night" synth at the start of "Driftin' Too Far From Shore"?

i think that his latter day approach would've done wonders for a lot his 80s material ... not quite the same thing, but I'm always surprised by how great Under the Red Sky songs sound in Neverending Tour form.

yeah back when I was still playing in the Dylan fantasy league Never-Ending Pool, he was suprisingly fond of "Cat's in the Well" (especially) and would also pepper in "Handy Dandy"

we ended up quitting because his setlists have really calcified compared to what they were in the mid 00s

man you know...who's got two thumbs and likes to critically re-evaluate an underrated Dylan ablum? - this guy - but outside of brownsville girl & a couple others knocked out loaded is straight *poop emoji*

^^^ didn't know whether to duck or run so you ran

ha yeah, it's not a dylan album i actually want to listen to.
but yeah aside from a few one offs, it seems like he just picks a setlist for a tour and sticks to it these days. which actually is fine (if less fun for internet trainspotters like you & me) -- the recent shows i've heard have been really solid and together, probably because the band knows those songs cold.

this is his current set, which is impressively non-greatest hits for the most part.

1. Things Have Changed
2. She Belongs To Me
3. Beyond Here Lies Nothin'
4. What'll I Do
5. Duquesne Whistle
6. Melancholy Mood
7. Pay In Blood
8. I'm A Fool To Want You
9. Tangled Up In Blue
(intermission)
10. High Water (For Charley Patton)
11. Why Try To Change Me Now
12. Early Roman Kings
13. The Night We Called It A Day
14. Spirit On The Water
15. Scarlet Town
16. All Or Nothing At All
17. Long And Wasted Years
18. Autumn Leaves

(encore)
19. Blowin' In The Wind
20. Love Sick

good to seem some stadows material in there

Xxp MY GOD THEY KILLED HIM

good to seem some stadows material in there
yeah and a couple from Stadows In The Night II: Still Stadowy

JEFFERSON TURNIN OVER IN HIS GRAVE

just put on side 2 of Saved and maybe it's just the holidays but sounds pretty good to me! remembered this as a total dud...

I love how "In the Garden" is as much about Dylan as Jesus

it's certainly not abt Mel Gibson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCRFeRyfJW8

anyone know who's drumming?

It's not Stan Lynch?

I guess it must be - was that an entire tour with Petty & Heartbreakers backing Dylan?

Not 100% sure, but obviously from that video you can see Petty and some other Heartbreakers, and I just glanced at Behind The Shades and some other books and it seems to be the case. And Stan didn't leave the band until much later.

SO much oPRESSion
can't keep TRACK OF IT NO MORE

how many 60s dinosaurs went into the 80s as cleareyed as "well i dunno which is worse / doin your own thing or just being cool"

SO much oPRESSion
can't keep TRACK OF IT NO MORE

― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Friday, February 26, 2016 4:37 PM (39 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this makes me of think of dylan keeping a spreadsheet of forms of oppression and needing to hire interns to update it

for one of his list songs

Doctor, can you hear me? I need some MEDICAID!!!
I seen the kingdoms of the WORLD and it’s makin’ me feel afraid!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0J3Y5s_kfo

Just stumbled over this reappearance of the Toronto 1980 show. Much improved quality!

Also, thanks to all in this thread who convinced me to revisit this so-wrongly-dismissed era.

the sermon around the hour twenty mark and the blistering song afterwards...I just love seeing him so unjaded

yeah, such an intense performance overall.
was just revisiting this early take of "caribbean wind" which isn't quite there, but is nice nonetheless
https://vimeo.com/66756497

http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/no-man-righteous-dylan-and-pseudoconservatism/

time is forever just running out … The apocalypticism of the paranoid style runs dangerously near to hopeless pessimism, but usually stops short of it

...

a fear of the end-times quickly becomes indistinguishable from a yearning for them

...

the various songs yield an exhaustive, Whitmanesque catalog of villains

but enough about 60s dylan

ew rob horning

YA HEAR THAT, ROB HORNING??!?

Has anyone here been discussing THE BOOTLEG SERIES VOLUME 13: TROUBLE NO MORE?

yep quite a bit in the Dylan bootleg series thread

everyone loves it and is baptised in the blood of the lamb

Bob Dylan: The Bootleg Series

im going to see the "trouble no more" film tonight!

jealous!
i love the lord & these live albums

jesus christ & bobby dylan are my reconciliation

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ECONOMY

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ASTRONOMY

"Ain't No Man Righteous" is such a jam.

aw man the "slow train coming" in this is MEAN

that and "what can I do for you" were the highlights

there really should be a Mavis thread, but anyway:

First, they couldn't settle on who has to sing the line "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse." "He said, 'You're going to sing it this time. I did it for you last time,' " Staples recalls. "I said, 'You didn't do it for me. It's your song!' " And with the song's seven verses, Staples, 78, had trouble getting the lyrics straight. "I asked him, 'Do you have a teleprompter?' He says" – she drops her voice to Dylan's guttural rasp – " 'I'm too cheap to buy a prompter, Mavis.' I told him, 'You can buy one for me, Bobby!' "

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/mavis-staples-second-act-bob-dylan-jeff-tweedy-w517080

He and Staples had a fling in the Sixties, with Staples famously rejecting his marriage proposal.

If this information is “famous,” I never heard it before!

was dylan sober from drugs and alcohol during the christian period?

maybe for a minute, but i think he got back into it pretty quick.
was just listening to the 1981 live performances on Trouble No More — really wild vocals from Dylan, like an attempt to create a whole new style for himself.

I’ve been sleeping on this bootleg series set, but will prob’ly have to get it.... I love “Saved” and some of the other stuff from this period.

Discussed this a bit on the Bootleg Series thread. I listened to almost nothing else for a month or two.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ECONOMY

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ASTRONOMY

― tylerw, Friday, March 9, 2018 5:44 PM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

grain-elevators-are-burstin'

love the Trouble No More set so much.

It's innaresting how angry and uninviting Dylan's version of xtianity is. Like, very little of it is uplifting or rapturous or thankful, a lot of it focuses on the harsh, judgmental end of things, not really the kind of angle that wins a lot of converts.

i always crack up during precious angel, which seems kinda like a tender love song until: "Can they imagine the darkness that will fall from on high /
When men will beg God to kill them and they won't be able to die."

haha yeah that's a prime example

there's still humor poking through, and occasional moments of tenderness and then hey don't forget FIRE AND BRIMSTONE

it's esp jarring because so much 70's pop-Christianity was inclusive and liberal e.g. Godspell, the Good News Bible, the communal "Jesus movement" etc., this is the v much the Reagan-era advent of evangelism as conservatism

but fuck yeah this set kicks so much ass

yeah it does coincide w Reaganism but my memories of the 80s evangelism revival doesn't really fit Dylan either - those guys were transparent hucksters in the faith healer tradition, constantly bursting into tears and dancing and reveling in opulence and the GLORY and btw send money

Bakker, Swaggart, Falwell, Robertson - Dylan bears at best a passing resemblance to those clowns. To a man they projected an avuncular happiness (and venality) that Dylan doesn't go anywhere near.

I probably said it upthread but for a Christian album I sure get cocaine vibes from Trouble No More

def one of the best of the bootleg series, ruined me on the studio albums

xp but I do think it's consistent with the liberal drift at the time though, still righteous but increasingly exclusionary and no doubt some of those SoCal yuppies hit thirty and stayed on for Ralph Reed et al

I've listened to a good number of shows from this period, and I agree with the assessment that the live performances smoke the studio recordings. When i pay more attention to the instrumentalists and the arrangements over anything else, the "Trouble No More" set is much more enjoyable than I'd expect. But eventually one's focus has to shift to the words, as well as Dylan's singing, and I can't say either helped in holding my interest. Sometimes, Dylan sounds re-invigorated in his righteous fury, but this can come on as relentless hectoring after a while. On some of the slower numbers, his voice cracks and breaks apart in a way that's cringe-inducing (see the live renditions of "I Believe in You"). And then there's the words. It's interesting to see Dylan apply the same methods he's always used in writing lyrics to Biblical sources - with each phase of his career, he mines rich new territory for material, whether it's folk songs or poetry or the Bible, and his approach to fragmenting them and fusing them back together in novel, even revelatory ways rarely fails to astonish. But the results here are pretty mixed. Quite a few lyrics, even entire verses, are not just awful but pretty offensive. Check out the title track of 'Slow Train Coming' and the verse about "Sheiks walkin' around like kings / Wearing fancy jewels and nose rings" - fortunately, Dylan dropped this from later performances, but it's there in the earlier ones. FWIW, in at least one case, it took someone else to really elevate a song or two into something truly transcendent. Sinead O'Connor's "I Believe in You" comes to mind - a beautifully fragile and moving rendition was released on one of those 'A Very Special Christmas' compilations (I think the second volume), and far more than Dylan's renditions, it's very moving to hear how religion can be a true lifeline for someone singing that song. (O'Connor's version was recorded soon after she was booed off the stage at Dylan's 30th anniversary concert, an experience that was very traumatizing. Not long after that, she attempted suicide, but even without knowing that, you get the sense she's hanging by a thread in "I Believe in You.")

xp Dylan and those ppl were really starting to lean into the "values" stuff, anti-abortion, homophobia that would come to define evangelism

bird solid post but grafs my man

I do love that Sinead version, it's always funny to me that "no one sings Dylan like Dylan" but at the same time so covers that do seem to elevate the material

so *many* covers

Dylan and those ppl were really starting to lean into the "values" stuff, anti-abortion, homophobia

? where are the anti-abortion and homophobia in Dylan's lyrics?

Check out the title track of 'Slow Train Coming' and the verse about "Sheiks walkin' around like kings / Wearing fancy jewels and nose rings"

this line doesn't bother me at all tbh

it's offensive to sheiks!

the line is also literally true so wgaf

the anti-OPEC implication in the verse is a little more suspect but really who cares, they *were* fucking with America!

iirc he called SF "a dwelling place for homoseluals" on stage but that stuff was all obv excised for this set

I also remember him also being anti-birth control in an RS interview dring this period...and aren't there a couple songs on Infidels that condemn abortion?

I can not type

idk I've never heard Infidels tbh!

he did say this around the time of infidels, which doesn't seem all that well thought out, but:

Well, I think birth control is another hoax that women shouldn’t have bought, but they did buy. I mean, if a man don’t wanna knock up a woman, that’s his problem, you know what I mean? It’s interesting: They arrest prostitutes, but they never arrest the guys with the prostitutes. It’s all very one-sided. And the same with birth control. Why do they make women take all them pills and fuck themselves up like that? People have used contraceptives for years and years and years. So all of a sudden some scientist invents a pill, and it’s a billion dollar industry. So we’re talkin’ about money. How to make money off of a sexual idea. “Yeah, you can go out and fuck anybody you want now; just take this pill.” You know? And it puts that in a person’s mind: “Yeah, if I take a pill. . . .” But who knows what those pills do to a person? I think they’re gonna be passé. But they’ve caused a lot of damage, a lot of damage.

So it’s the man’s responsibility? Vasectomy’s the best way?
I think so. A man don’t wanna get a woman pregnant, then he’s gotta take care of it. Otherwise, that’s just ultimate abuse, you know?

SF *is* a dwelling place for homosexuals and proud of it btw

xp

It's innaresting how angry and uninviting Dylan's version of xtianity is. Like, very little of it is uplifting or rapturous or thankful, a lot of it focuses on the harsh, judgmental end of things, not really the kind of angle that wins a lot of converts.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, March 5, 2020 3:21 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I feel qualified on this topic because I grew up in the 70s and early 80s in a non-denominational evangelical church that was a lot like this. Most of the members of the church (including my parents) were ex-hippies who came to the Church in a type of rejection of the excesses of the 60s. I am talking about Paul on the road to Damascus stuff. The entire feeling in our church was straight out of the Gospels/Revelations when the christian church was in it's early days: christians as a persecuted minority surrounded by wickedness at every turn who must stay strong for the end times coming soon. A lot of the hippie stuff still came through in the way members took care of each other and the general church community, but the primary thing I remember was the visceral feeling that the struggle for your soul was a day-to-day battle with the forces of the world shot through with Old Testament fire and brimstone: god is a living being, who is coming back soon, and he is going to punish the non-believers and you don't want to be one of them. I find Chick tracts funny but I heard similar shit daily/weekly.

A lot of the christian period has a similar vibe to the 60s protest songs. Dylan sells Christianity just as hard as he sold the civil rights movement. Dylan's projection of a sense of righteousness in the cause and the accusatory outrage at the injustice of civil rights, in say, "Hattie Carroll", is very similar to the righteousness and accusatory outrage he deploys at the wicked world of unbelievers.

I can see ums' point about the coke vibes on this stuff, especially the album cover where Dylan is in the army jacket and looks like a strung out Vietnam Vet. I also get a vibe of a guy who has a drinking problem (my recollection is that Bob started down the road to alcoholism in the late 70s), finds God, and for a short time the joy of his strong, newfound religion keeps him from drinking. But as the initial excitement of his conversion starts to wear off, the guy starts having to "white-knuckling" it: he thinks if he just proclaims his faith a little louder or proselytizes a little harder he can get that initial feeling back. Some of the coke vibes start to come off to me like the hysteria of someone trying to hold on to their belief/stop drinking.

shakey you gotta hear infidels!

I have never been able to locate a copy, can't find downloadable mp3s of it etc

(granted I haven't tried *that* hard, it looks like it probably sounds kind of bad)

xp I think some of that birth control vasectomy stuff is due to Bob fathering a couple of children in the late 70s/early 80s and having to pay child support.

Yeah, Infidels is really great in its own way, though obviously flawed.

haha wouldn't surprise me - good post btw

xp

I think this is Infidels-period? Still pretty fire and brimstone! (Also backed by the Heartbreakers!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxGzJQV1MI0

wait I meant this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG_Qlb5C4Xk

As someone who tried the pill and found it came with a fun side effect of crippling anxiety that wasn't listed on the box, I have a certain sympathy with the bonkers ramblings about birth control.

produced by Tom Petty!

No. It isn't fire 'n' brimstone.

SF *is* a dwelling place for homosexuals and proud of it btw

lol I don't think he meant this in chamber-of-commerce boostery way

anyway for better and worse Dylan is just a vessel for brain farts

I should point out that much Christian evangelism has NOT been inclusive, and I don't mean this pejoratiely; there's a tradition stretching centuries back in which the point is to separate the saved from the damned. This theology coincides with Dylan's lifelong penchant for pointing fingers at enemies. It's obvious, which is why the rockcrit establishment's myopia during this period stands out.

Infidels has "Jokerman," a top five Dylan track, a pleasant misogynist trifle called "Sweetheart Like You," and six or seven examples of well-played, thoughtfully produced twaddle.

*pejoratively

It's innaresting how angry and uninviting Dylan's version of xtianity is. Like, very little of it is uplifting or rapturous or thankful, a lot of it focuses on the harsh, judgmental end of things, not really the kind of angle that wins a lot of converts.

Dylan's Presbyterian period.

No. It isn't fire 'n' brimstone.

It's HELL TIME, MAN

xps

here are bob's really coherent thoughts on san francisco:

Long time ago they used to have these Greek plays, I guess, pretty long time ago. Anyway now they have groups called actors, you know that. Back then they had actors too, but they called them hypocrites. That's right! There'd be like a play, like a play with thirty people in it, but actually there'd only be four. They all used to wear masks. They'd all come out in a mask, [Dylan says a few words in a high-pitched voice] talk in another voice. They’d just wear a mask. So four people could play the part of thirty people. That's a heavy responsibility, keeps you on your toes. Never know who you are, so there's a lot of hypocrites. They're talking, you know, using Jesus' name, but don't you let that put you off, cause you're still dealing with the world. Jesus has overcome the world, that's what he did at the Cross. As simple as that. You may think it's complicated, but actually if you look at Jesus you gotta look at the Cross. Actually if you're wondering why all these things are happening these days. Joshua you know he went to, I believe it was Canaan land and God told him at certain times to destroy all the Canaanites, every man, women and children there. That's bad! He certainly hated to leave the children, but they were just all defiled. And there was some cities that he said, "oh go in there yeah" and Joshua wondered why, and God said because their iniquity is not yet full. So now, when you look around today, when we started out this tour, we started out in San Francisco. And ..., that's a ... San Francisco is a kind of a unique town these days. I think it's either one third or two thirds of the population there are homosexuals. All right! I guess they're working up to a 100 per cent, I don't know. Anyway, it’s a growing place for homosexuals, and I read they have a homosexuals politics, it’s a political party, I don't mean it's going on in somebody’s closet, I mean it's just political. All right, you know what I'm talking about. Anyway would just think ..., I guess the iniquity’s not yet full, and I don't wanna be around when it is!

Are those lyrics

you know what I'm talkin about

lol

xp I think Band of the Hand is a couple years later like 85/86, but he definitely kept up that fire and brimstone vibe. In fact, a lot of the apocalyptic blues stuff in the late 90s and early 2000s like "Cold Irons Bound", "Tweedly Dee and Tweedly Dum", and "High Water", and even the movie "Masked and Anonymous" are the descendants of the christian period with a lot more humor.

"Masked and Anonymous" is underrated

it's pretty stupid but there's some really good stuff in there

Re: "Slow Train," the verse in question wasn't just putting across a dubious argument, it framed it in a way that came off as pretty jingoistic, and when I go back to it after listening to the whole album, it feels offensively intolerant. (This is placed in context with what else was being said throughout the album: "you either got faith or you got unbelief / and there's no neutral ground," "you were tellin' him about Mohammed in one breath / You never mentioned one time the Man who came / And died a criminal's death," and on and on...)

I find nothing interesting or compelling about the "you non-believers are all going to hell" screeds - the few songs I do like from this period aren't like that at all, and they're great, complex spirituals, but the rest is just puerile.

eh I love lots of "you nonbelievers are going to hell" music. Tons of reggae, the Louvin Brothers, etc. Thinking of this in the context of Dylan's earlier folk "finger-pointing" songs is appropriate imo.

I don't know what anyone's access is like to CD retailers is these days, but the Infidels remaster has been a budget CD ($5-7) for years now.

I feel like Infidels is a used record store staple, unless it was unusually popular in Minnesota

what's a CD

it's a compact disc :)
underrated format!

The Future of Music!

Christian Dominance

Calvinist Dylan

infidels is nice on CD — you really get that crisp knopfler sound. sly + robbie bringing the bounce.

eh I love lots of "you nonbelievers are going to hell" music. Tons of reggae, the Louvin Brothers, etc. Thinking of this in the context of Dylan's earlier folk "finger-pointing" songs is appropriate imo.

eh I love lots of "you nonbelievers are going to hell" music. Tons of reggae, the Louvin Brothers, etc. Thinking of this in the context of Dylan's earlier folk "finger-pointing" songs is appropriate imo.

zing touched again

Yeah, I know "Dylanologists" well say they're in the great tradition of his 'finger-pointin'' songs from the '60s, like it's hearing a Born Again "Positively Fourth Street," but they don't have the wit or sharp humor to make the comparison any more than superficial. I tried to like them, but a lot of times they just sound like sour haranguing.

RE: "Infidels," if you took out some of the worst songs (maybe the ones with the bizarre crackpot lyrics on the evils of space travel) and replaced them with better outtakes like "Blind Willie McTell," "Foot of Pride," etc. it would be an excellent album.

I'm sorry, but if you can't find humor in Dylan's christian songs . . .

Shakes, if you like going to hell stuff, check out Dylan's between song rants/sermons from his christian period on youtube. Like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75_ceACC7-o

Dylan: [rambling story about the Antichrist.]
Combative Audience Member: "Rock and roll!"
Dylan: "You can go down and rock and roll. You can go see KISS. You can rock and roll your way all the way down to the PIT!"

Followed by Dylan asking for the house lights to be brought up so he can see the people heckling him. It's just like Dylan with the Hawks in 66 except Jesus is his backing band.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3p37uv

The above one is great. Rambling story in which Dylan compares biblical prophecy to the recent Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, during which Dylan cites a list of great philosophers such as "Plato . . . who else now . . . Jimmy Reed? . . . Nietzsche . . . ." Then the band tears into the best version of Solid Rock ever, almost heavy metal.

Or maybe it just ain't funny, but comedy's subjective. I'm sure "Man Gave Names to All the Animals" is a riot with plenty of people.

I grew up in the 70s and early 80s in a non-denominational evangelical church that was a lot like this. Most of the members of the church (including my parents) were ex-hippies who came to the Church in a type of rejection of the excesses of the 60s.

Yeah, me too. This wikipedia page about Lonnie Frisbee talks about the genesis of that movement, which had its epicenter in Southern California. Dylan's gospel period always seemed completely if not normal then at least not weird, because I grew up hearing people talk like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Frisbee

That song is a great childrens song

I think sour hectoring is a fair assessment and hey sonetimes thats what I want tbh

Xps

Oh man great links PBKR! Thx

Lonnie Frisbee, another real life Pynchon name

Lol yes

Followed by Dylan asking for the house lights to be brought up so he can see the people heckling him. It's just like Dylan with the Hawks in 66 except Jesus is his backing band.

― Biden my time/Drinking her wine (PBKR)

the hawks in '66 rocked harder than christ ever did

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E17/145494/m/QUxMIFRIRSBCRVNUIEJBTkRTCiBBUkUgQUZGSUxJQVRFRCBXSVRICiBTQVRBTi4=

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E17/145494.jpg

Apologies, is there any way to delete my last two posts? I'm still new at this and completely botched a post that's no longer worth posting.

wow thanks for the tip on the Sinéad cover of "I Believe In You", that's a devastating performance. it also appears on some kind of maxi-single for "Thank You For Hearing Me" from 1994, along with a remix of "Fire On Babylon" that's making my hair stand up.

Listening to O'Connor cover now.

Lots of otm 2019-20 posts (as I said at some length on Rolling Bootleg Series, I think another ilox's "cocaine dreams" sums up a lot of the giantor box sampler, despite frequent musical excellence). Re gay, he mentioned still hanging out with Ginsberg, and when interviewer asked how he squared that, replied to the effect that no prob (think he might be into Personal Priesthood Principle, like it's up to *you* to Choose---but might be projecting my own pre-Moral Majority experience as Southern Baptist)(It's still a thing with
at least some of them; not all churches are in the Convention, which itself currently tries not to issue so many Assholy statements, having driven so many congregants away).

*gigantor* box sampler

Something like individual gays, old friends etc. no prob, but as political masses, uh-oh (am reminded of Delany recalling a pre-Stonewall bust, down by the trucks---so many guys came swarming out, that even he got scared, and he was one of 'em).

My band is actually working up a version of “Man Gave Names...” It’s not a song we find stupid, or funny or whatever. We just like it.

Cool, please post at some point. For some dark reason, my computer will no longer let me post YouTubes, but
here's this round-up (it's also on spotify, apple, play)
https://www.google.com/search?q=Townes+Van+Zandt+Man+Gave+Names+To+All+The+Animals&oq=Townes+Van+Zandt+Man+Gave+Names+To+All+The+Animals&aqs=chrome..69i57.31557j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

shot of love may be the best one of these, and i love them all! "property of jesus," what a jam!!!!

eh idk if it's the *best*... I mean, it has Lenny Bruce on it

count me among the few weirdos who likes "lenny bruce." the lyric is.... yeah, but the arrangement feels kinda proto-paul westerberg solo somehow

trouble no more is, forgive me, a revelation

shot of love may be the best one of these, and i love them all! "property of jesus," what a jam!!!!

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson),

Pleasantly ephemeral -- I like the gutbucket mix. "Every Grain of Sand" and "in the Summertime" though.

"every grain of sand" has been one of my fav dylan songs ever since i heard emmylou harris' cover, i was happy to love his version. "in the summertime" is amazing. heavy van morrison energy to these records (i guess it's all the gospel?)

supposedly there's a Clash version of "In the Summertime" with a howling Joe Strummer plonking away on the piano

I mixed this down to a wieldy 4hrs w/ segues and some other odds-and-ends, it never leaves my phone

hmu anybody if you would like!

https://i.imgur.com/zqquwMw.jpg

1 Ain't No Man Righteous, No Not One Take 6
2 When He Returns Take 2
3 Slow Train Toronto April 18-19 1980
4 Dead Man, Dead Man Outtake
5 Making a Liar Out of Me Rehearsal
6 Are You Ready? Toronto April 18-19 1980
7 Ain't Gonna Go to Hell for Anybody Toronto April 18-19 1980
8 Watered-Down Love Outtake
9 When You Gonna Wake Up? Oslo, July 9
10 You Changed My Life Take 4
11 Do Right To Me Baby Toronto April 18-19 1980
12 Cover Down, Pray Through Toronto April 18-19 1980
13 Stand By Faith Rehearsal
14 Gotta Serve Somebody Bad Segeberg [July 15]
15 In the Summertime Boston [October 21]
16 Groom's Still Waiting at the Altar Take 2
17 Precious Angel Toronto April 18-19 1980
18 Solid Rock Toronto April 18-19 1980
19 I Believe in You Toronto April 18-19 1980
20 Shot of Love Outtake
21 City of Gold San Francisco, CA, November 22
22 Gonna Change My Way of Thinking Memphis [January 31]
23 What Can I Do For You? Toronto April 18-19 1980
24 Man Gave Names To All The Animals London, June 27
25 Slow Train London [June 29]
26 Caribbean Wind Rehearsal (pedal Steel)
27 Jesus Is The One Lorelei, Germany, July 17
28 Rise Again Rehearsal
29 Knockin' On Heaven's Door London, June 27
30 Saving Grace Toronto April 18-19
31 Radio Spot Portland, January 1980
32 Blowin' In The Wind London, June 27
33 Gotta Serve Somebody London, June 27
34 When He Returns Toronto April 18-19
35 Thief On The Cross New Orleans, LA, November 10
36 Covenant Woman Take 3
37 Dead Man, Dead Man London, June 27, 1981
38 Trouble in Mind Take 1
39 Pressing On Take 1
40 Blessed Is The Name Santa Monica [November 20]
41 Groom's Still Waiting at the Altar San Francisco [November 13]
42 Solid Rock San Diego [November 1981]/Philadelphia [October 1979]
43 I Believe In You London, June 27
44 Ballad of a Thin Man London, June 27
45 Shot of Love Avignon [July 25]
46 Help Me Understand Soundcheck
47 Caribbean Wind San Francisco [November 12]
48 Ye Shall Be Changed Outtake
49 Every Grain of Sand Rehearsal
50 Slow Train San Francisco [November 16]
51 Gotta Serve Somebody Take 1
52 Band Introduction London, June 27, 1981
53 Like a Rolling Stone London, June 27, 1981
54 Pressing On Toronto April 18-19

Pressing On is my jam

also one of the few songs from this period where I actually think the album version is the best one

Trouble No More is the perfect soundtrack to these times. "When you gonna wake up?"

coming at you chinaski

D/l now - should keep me plenty busy. An immense thank you.

"caribbean wind" is a great song, should've been on shot of love

The cry of the peacock, flies buzz my head
Ceiling fan broken, there’s a heat in my bed
Street band playing “Nearer My God to Thee”
We met at the steeple where the mission bells ring
She said, “I know what you’re thinking, but there ain’t a thing
You can do about it, so let us just agree to agree”

fuckin amazing

xxp you're welcome!

every time i hear "when he returns," no matter the arrangement, studio or live, it's the best song i've ever heard, but the live version with the burning organ on it and the second studio take on trouble no more really hammer it home

Yeah, Caribbean Wind has an amazing cinematic quality to it like some of the stuff off Desire.

Those lines Brad quoted are nearly a screenplay.

just watched the trouble no more film! bob's harmonica solo during "what can i do for you?"! literally transcendent

That is one of my favorite things of this entire period. Like he is channelling the holy spirit.

Fuck yeah brad otm wrt Caribbean Wind, just floored me the first time I heard it on Biograph

i know i said upthread that shot of love was maybe the best of these but that was initial excitement i think, even though "property of jesus" and "in the summertime" really knock me out. saved is the best one imo and is swiftly becoming... my... favorite... dylan... record?

both of the complete live shows in the box set are AMAZING. toronto 1980 is perfect, and then just the next year at earl's court all the arrangements are completely fuckin different!

Agree that Saved is the best studio and that Toronto 1980 show is the best period.

Bob Dylan acting out "Shot of Love."

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: Interpretive Dance Bob Dylan is the best Bob Dylan. pic.twitter.com/QLRWlmnvN4

— HarryHew (@harryhew) August 30, 2023

Gestures aside, I find this musically scintillating.

Extraordinary that he had this much vitality after almost 20 years and numerous other career phases.