TS: Foreigner vs. Journey

And Journey did it with Don't Stop Believin'.

Foreigner's closest attempt, "Hot Blooded," is nowhere near the song that "Don't Stop Believin'" is.

-- Foreigner, "Hot Blooded"

Foreigner rocked much harder than Journey, and Steve Perry has always been and will forever be a total pussy. So my vote goes to Foreigner. Also, how this thread could span 19 posts without a mention of "Feels Like the First Time" is beyond me.

Besides, Foreigner had the WORST syrupy ballad ever, which would be I Wanna Know What Love Is.

And for my final point... WHAT WOULD JOURNEY DO?!?!?!? Heaven is a funky moose indeed.

foreigner = never a prog band, never had jazz aspirations; therefore made stronger pop music

journey = five jagbags in search of moisture. avoid.

Plus "Foreigner" is just a better name than "Journey."

But Ian MacDonald was a founding member of King Crimson!

Shit, Mr.Diamond beat me to it with the Crimson connection. Blast!

Journey cover art defines 1978 Chevy van parked at the beach art. Now. And forever.

http://www.foreignerfiles.com/lougrammsolo/articles/art2.htm

I say Foreigner (despite the fact that I'm apparently the only person who NEVER liked "I Want To Know What Love Is", largely because I've almost never liked gospel music)

Send Her My Love

DAMNIT THIS IS MAKING ME SO MAD!!!

YOU ILXOR PEOPLE ON AIM CHATZ TOLD ABOUT THIS OLD FOREIGNER SONG LAST NIGHT AND NOW I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS CALLED

FUCK!

I WANT TO HAVE THE CHEESEBALL MUSIC TOO!!!

No I am really upset about this. If anyone remembers the goddamn Foreigner song we were talking about please please You Tube it or let me know. Please. I'm totally traumatized over this.

Foreigner by a landslide for me.

Because

1. The first album is actually a great art pop album that sounds like as much like Supertramp than it does like Journey or Boston

2. The fourth album had some great new wave-ish singles.

Totally Journey, if only for "Lights".

Don't much about either, to be honest. For me it is really about Sopranos v Fucking Amal.

This is Foreigner Records, manageable greatest-hits thing with all killer and nothing too essential left off:

Cold as Ice
Double Vision
Head Games
Waiting for a Girl Like You
Feels Like the First Time
Urgent
Dirty White Boy
Juke Box Hero
Long, Long Way From Home
Hot Blooded (live)

Everything here is AWESOME, esp Cold as Ice, Double Vision, Head Games, Urgent, Juke Box Hero, Hot Blooded. Best part is that they know how to have the feeling and give the feeling, but also how to respect the feeling, how to make the feeling not be gross and all over the place. They own the feeling. Only errors of feeling are Waiting for a Girl Like You and Feels Like the First Time, in which case the feeling gets out of hand.

*** *** ***

This is Journey Greatest Hits, basically the same deal, but with 15 songs, thus something of a mess, cuz no band actually has that many good songs:

Only the Young
Don't Stop Believin'
Wheel in the Sky
Faithfully
I'll Be Alright Without You
Any Way You Want It
Ask the Lonely
Who's Crying Now
Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)
Lights
Lovin', Touchin', Squeezin'
Open Arms
Girl Can't Help It
Send Her My Love
Be Good to Yourself

I've cut out the lame ones, so there's only 10, which is more reasonable and more fair for Foreigner competition purposes anyway. You will see that the result is no less awesome than Foreigner. You will also see that the mess of unnecessary tracks is replicated in the mess of unmastered feeling that Journey delivers. Journey is not afraid of the loss of control, of surrendering to and being overwhelmed by the feeling. Unlike Foreigner, they are not at their best when they rule the feeling, but when they are ruled themselves: Don't Stop Believin', Faithfully, Who's Cryin' Now, Lovin' Touchin' etc., and especially OPEN ARMS. When Journey gets the feeling, they're not afraid to get some of all over the place.

These are different greatnesses. You have to choose your own adventure.

WTF, you're leaving off all the Raised on Radio stuff.

with extreme prejudice

You're right about Foreigner, but "Girl Can't Help It" and a couple of the other Raised on Radio hits are no worse than their predecessors.

ROR deserves its own poll, maybe?

The real test: Lou Gramm solo vs Steve Perry solo.

"Midnight Blue" > "Foolish Heart," but if you throw in "Oh Sherrie" it's a lot closer.

I still take Foreigner in this war, by the way (for reasons not all that far from Geir's, weirdly, though the punky stuff on Head Games is the real game breaker.) Foreigner at their best were every bit as anthemic as Journey, and a lot more ballsy. (Also, Records leaves off "I Want To Know What Love Is," which is at least as important an omission as anything on Raised on Radio).

(Also, Records doesn't have "Starrider" or "Headknocker" or "Women," which I'll take over any Journey songs that didn't make their best-of.)

Records leaves off "I Want To Know What Love Is," which is at least as important an omission as a billion times better than anything on Raised on Radio

Records predates Agent Provocateur though, doesn't it? If picking a Foreigner greatest hits package, I'd go with Complete Greatest Hits as it includes the mid-late '80s singles (including the rather great "Heart Turns to Stone"). But it's bulky, at 20 tracks, and defeats contenderizer's whole brevity argument.

Chuck's nothing if not consistent: TS: Lou Gramm's "Midnight Blue" vs. Steve Perry's "Oh Sherrie"

with respect to foreigner's consistency, journey hits higher highs. and the first progged-out journey album is still slept on

Stone In Love > anything Foreigner ever did > Midnight Blue > anything Journey ever did that wasn't Stone In Love though Don't Stop Believing comes close > Steve Perry solo though Oh Sherry comes close

which is weird since Mick Jones is a sub-Giraldo LP/Marshall bloozrock hack while Neil Schon is a tiny little magic guitar wizard

and Lou Gramm (big up ROC!) is a capable rock singer and much ballsier songwriter than Steve Perry, but Perry's pipes are pretty much untouchable

so you'd think Journey in a walk but nope

I'm fond of "That Was Yesterday."

Yeah I'm on the Foreigner over Journey bandwagon, by far. Even though I also have a big soft spot for "Oh Sherrie". Especially the video.

anyone who says Foreigner is WIGGIDY WACK

hooray!

Journey, obviously, but why choose? Both bands kick The Beatles out of the ballpark.

not one musician in Foreigner who's as 1) good or 2) as much fun to listen to as Neil Schon. Journey's melodies also much better.

That's why I was so shocked by the Raised on Radio hate from contenderizer. That album is Schon to the max.

The thing about Journey's Greatest Hits is they left a bunch of songs off that could more than easily replaced all the latter day filler tracks. Stone In Love, Feeling That Way, Anytime, Just the same way, etc. Whereas, the 10 song Foreigner Records is pretty much all they've got.

no, they also have "Blue Morning, Blue Day," a solid jam for sure

"i wanna know what love is" still most moving ballad of the 80s

that said i'm no journey basher, their live cd from a couple years back blew me away

The best Foreigner songs I can imagine being effective without histrionic vocals, and I can't say that about Journey. Most Journey songs I can't even imagine without Steve Perry to knock them home, something Randy Jackson reminds me of each season. That said, Lou's vocal annoyed me even in junior high, when I totally grooving to Billy Squire. Journey are the bester band, but Foreigner are the greatster *artistes*.

I can't imagine why you'd want to hear Journey songs sung a register lower and minus the vocal pyrotechnics. That's like saying Van Halen songs are not artistic because you can't play them slowed down on acoustic guitar.

But you can do all sorts of things to Van Halen songs and make them work.

I wonder if any cheesy dance acts have ever knowcked off the opening section of "Don't Stop Believin'"?

I should mention that I've been on last.fm listening to Foreigner radio all day, by bizarre coincidence.

http://hypem.com/track/457113/122+-+Journey-Bambaata-Journey+vs.+Afrika+Bambaataa+-+Don%27t+Stop+Believin%27+In+Planet+Rock+122c

Journey were never even close to the wonderful Queen/ELO/10cc like backing vocals on Foreigner's debut album.

Because Queen/ELO/10cc >>>>>>>>>> AOR in general, Foreigner wins this.

When I was 11, I bought the "I Wanna Know What Love Is" single at a little mall in my hometown. Somehow, I lost it before I even left the mall. So I went back and bought it again, the same day. Good thing singles were only about .75 in those days.

"I Want To Know What Love Is" is horrible though. But the first Foreigner album was great because it sounded English. And English music has always been superior to American music.

Journey were never even close to the wonderful Queen/ELO/10cc like backing vocals on Foreigner's debut album.

What about Any Way You Want It or Anytime? If that Foreigner debut album has any songs as good, then why aren't they also radio classics?

Ah I just noticed 'Feels like the first time' is on it.

If that Foreigner debut album has any songs as good, then why aren't they also radio classics?

A lot of the best music has never become radio classics.

And "Cold As Ice" is on it too. Foreigners best ever moment, in it almost prog-like wonderfulness.

Foreigner would become more "rock" oriented and more similar to American AOR on their next couple of albums, but the debut is great because it has more in common with Supertramp and ELO than with Boston and Journey.

There's only one song from either band worth salvaging from fiery apocalypse. And that song is "Feeling That Way." Journey wins.

(runner-up ie grab it if you can but dont lose yr life over it: Wheel in the Sky. Anyone else kinda wish Carrie Underwood or some other young country songstress would cover this (and not suck?))

why the fuck would you do that to poor "Wheel in the Sky"

I don't know...bcz Patsy Cline is dead and this all we have dammit!

"this IS all we have dammit"...tho truthfully Patsy would not be the ideal person to cover this...I wz thinkin maybe Miranda Lambert, but her drawl is quite pronounced...

maybe Linda Ronstadt ca. 1974?

I don't hate Foreigner nearly as much as I hate Journey. Sorry, fans, but growing up in Marin County in the early 80's will make one seriously loathe Journey.

hey man I can understand....Journey is quite hatable...

Plus I really don't like Perry's voice much. I can totally see why the kids all like their bigger pop songs, though; they were huge back in the day for a reason.

Miranda Lambert is too sensible to cover "Wheel in the Sky."

"And English music has always been superior to American music."

I realize I'm taking the bait here, but you can't objectively feel that way about say, early Blues.

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/49105main_popcorn.jpg

It's true though. Early English blues were rubbish.

Blind Lemon Fothringham

Yeah, they never woke up this morning, their women were always faithful and were generally chipper if not at least stiff-upper-lipped.

xpost

Yodel McNodle

their women were always faithful and were generally chipper if not at least stiff-upper-lipped

I realize I'm taking the bait here, but you can't objectively feel that way about say, early Blues.

Music Hall and Vaudeville >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blues

Well, Music Hall and Vaudeville have undoubtedly had a far greater influence on modern music that the blues, this is true.

Well, Music Hall and Vaudeville have undoubtedly had a far greater influence on modern music that the blues, this is true.

― La plus perdue de toutes les journées est celle où l’on n’a pas (Michael White), Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:15 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

thick ankles, prone to sarcasm

Calumny! I have extremely fetching ankles.

LOL Geir imagines Foreigner has "English" pedigree in their music because their debut often shipped as a UK import when it was new, both Geir & his opinions are old

not even old, just anti-good...

I'm having a hard time figuring the Geir thing out. It's kinda funny, almost, but the mask never slips. It NEVER SLIPS.

Presenting, the Geir-1000, the Hongronator:

http://www.scificool.com/images/2008/02/sam-worthington-terminator2.jpg

Foreigner is completely 100% no irony fucking awesome when distilled down to the essential cuts. Journey annoys me.

Geir, you are an idiot.

but Geir agrees with you, VISION QUEST

you Geir newbies should understand he has been peddling the same schtick on the lol internets since at least 1994 and is impervious to debate, reason, verbal abuse, bribery, etc

No, I know! That's what's so amazing! The imperviosity, as though the universe had frozen forever in place and no change, however small, could ever again despoil its perfect emptiness. Eerie...

yah, im not actually going to engage in any discourse with the guy, i know the drill. still, it bears repeating every so often.

xpost only on foreigner, not on blues v music hall

A lot to catch up with on this thread...

I'm fond of "That Was Yesterday."

oh shit. oh shit. oh shit. I forgot about that song!! That's the one! Oh god. I think you just drove a truth bomb through my woodshed. Holy crap. Where's You Tube? Surely it's worse than I remember? Damn, dude. I can't believe the memories that one calls to mind. I was totally in love with this girl at the time who said she remembered seeing Foreigner live when they first started because she came from their hometown or whatever and she loved that song and we'd watch it on MTV many times. She used to drag me out of bed early in the morning if there were any U2 videos playing because U2 was my fave band! Haha good times. I've said it on my blog before, but some part of me never leaves 1985.

anyone who says Foreigner is WIGGIDY WACK

Yep.

Incidentally I never appreciated the Raised On Radio hits back in the day, barely even noticed them, in fact. I only started to appreciate them last year!! Odd. But yeah I agree they were as good as most of what came before.

I'm rather delighted with Drugs A. Money's suggestion for a different singer for "Wheel In The Sky". I find that song a most puzzling weak spot for Journey and I do wonder if the likes of say Patsy Cline or Linda Ronstadt might not just help it.

Also what in god's name is Moley doing saying both these bands beat the Beatles? Utter madness, I tell you. Granted I play Journey more now, but I mean come on, are you being sarcastic?

you Geir newbies should understand he has been peddling the same schtick on the lol internets since at least 1994 and is impervious to debate, reason, verbal abuse, bribery, etc

― J0hn D.

Which is probably old news to the old timers, so carry on...

Also I just want to say that half the charm of Journey's Send Her My Love for me is the opening 13 seconds or so. What the fuck was going on there, production wise??? I mean WOW. Just WOW.

anyway, don't feel bad Contenderizer. I was shocked that John D. said as far back as 1994 because I mean really...ILX hasn't been on that long...maybe Geir was different before ILX. We can hope.

Anyway I'm saying cut Geir a break again. He adds some pretty hefty entertainment value to this board.

maybe Geir was different before ILX

Ned, HI DERE, and any other remaining alt.music.alternative survivors to thread

He's a fucking legend is that what you're saying? LOL

LOL Geir imagines Foreigner has "English" pedigree in their music because their debut often shipped as a UK import when it was new

wasn't half the band... um... gosh, this is awkward... kinda a little English?

Foreigner vs. Bad Co. is probably the more apt comparison - POO huge AOR FM rock bands featuring former members of King Crimson!

And yes... behold: top geir

Dec 12 1996, 12:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.music.alternative, alt.rap
From: Geir Hongro <hon...@i✧✧.u✧✧.n✧>
Date: 1996/12/12
Subject: Re: Worst band of all time

Not all "groundbreaking" is positive.
Just like James Brown did in the 60s and 70s, Public Enemy has
pushed music in the wrong direction.

Geir Hongro

Geir xposting to alt.rap, paleolithic trolling at its finest

bahahahahahhaa JAMES BROWN = BAD. BEATLES = GOOD. For all eternity.

XP Oh no, my best trolling was when I posted to alt.animals.dolphins about how delicious dolphins taste when served with garlic ;)

hahahah FUCK YOU
FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU! ;)

Oh my god. Did you hear that vegetarian people of peace and love?

"you Geir newbies should understand he has been peddling the same schtick on the lol internets since at least 1994 and is impervious to debate, reason, verbal abuse, bribery, etc"

I get all this (even though I've only been on here for a little while). But I did want to ask what Geir's band is? I mean, I've gathered that he plays synth. Where can I buy his record?

But I did want to ask what Geir's band is? I mean, I've gathered that he plays synth. Where can I buy his record?

Still all for free: http://www.uhort.no/artist/Hongroe

Thanks but I'm waiting for the English version. It's obviously going to be way better.

no-one beats Journey 'cause no human alive can beat the Steve Perry mullet. and that's a fact!

― Tad (llamasfur), Tuesday, January 14, 2003 3:57 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark

i still stand behind this, BTW.

Thanks but I'm waiting for the English version. It's obviously going to be way better.

It's guaranteed 100% not American. :)

(I was about to say Un-American, but I believe that means something else ;) )

haha cute.

Anyway, someone defended Steve Perry's mullet here and it may just be that this is the deepest understanding of Journey possible on a music thread. Because really, who the fuck else could rock a mullet than him? I mean you didn't exactly get in the way of that dude, you know? I wouldn't have wanted to get in a fight with him at a bar (or a singing contest at a bar). Imagine losing a bet to him on a singing contest. OUCH.

"don't stop believing" is a pretty great song, as mighty as anything foreigner ever did -- that alone excuses/justifies steve perry's mullet.

hahahhaaha
fuck you for making me get out my iPod. Oh shit.

Dude if like the last thing I ever heard in my entire life was Journey's "Dont Stop Believing", I couldn't complain. I just couldn't.

Still all for free: http://www.uhort.no/artist/Hongroe

The opening track sounds like YMO until the vocals come in.

someone defended Steve Perry's mullet here and it may just be that this is the deepest understanding of Journey possible on a music thread.

ou sont les Dave Qs d'antan?

'good' prog = basement musicians overextending themselves, 'bad' prog = supersessioneers playing stuff for stadiums. 'bad' prog is the stuff people like and critics cannot get their heads around however 'playful' they're being. Or to put it another way, if you can't get your head around Journey's "Stone in Love" then you're still outside looking in. "Stone in Love", holy fuck! The guy plays a DIFFERENT FILL on every fuckin' bar, the ending is in like 11/8 time, there's modal inversions and stacked harmonies and it's STILL A FUCKIN' STADIUM ROCK SONG. Plus it makes me play 'air drums' uncontrollably. Anybody can appreciate Greenslade and PFM from arm's length cuz they fulfill the categorical imperative but "SIL" appeals to people who don't know why they like it as well as being the most complicated fuckin' song I've ever heard and thus is off limits to anybody still constrained by punk orthodoxy which is really utilitarianism with safety pins! To borrow a phrase from Fritz Wollner (where the fuck is he these days? Come back!), Jon Anderson = Che, Steve Perry = Castro, whoever you (want to?) 'identify' with more determines whether you actually 'get' prog or if you're just 'playing' at it! (Contrary to received opinion 'prog' is NOT about the 'playing' [instro-spaking], otherwise they'd 'jam' more)
-- dave q, November 3rd, 2003

How are safety pins not utilitarian?

To play devil's advocate for a sec, Foreigner did not have their own video game:

http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/parenting/2008/07/20/journey310x238.JPG

^^^ hello childhood

that game was wack then

Can we keep this thread going for a little while longer? I can't get "Girl Can't Help It" out of my head at all right now (“OOOH THERE’S A FIRE IN HIS EYES FOR YOU!!!!!!” is on mega repeat in my brain). I don't know who this Paul dude was from 2002, but I really love the fact that someone decided to slap these two bands together in a thread.

See this happened to me last year with Journey around this time of year. I got the Greatest Hits and I was like fucking set for life. It's ridiculous because once I start with it I really can't stop for a good long while. Somehow those dudes managed to write songs that I can play a trillion times and not get tired of.

"Juke Box Hero" on the other hand, is uproariously laughable in hindsight. But in a good B-movie kind of way. So you can't lose.

Also I don't think I said it before but Contenderizer's whole analysis of these two bands re: "The Feeling" cracked me up to no end. It’s the FEELING, MAAAN!

Also seeking opinions on Steve Perry's RED TAILS WITH JEANS LOOK. Dude actually had the guts to wear this shit! I mean even for the 80's that outfit is just fucking WACK:

I don't know who this Paul dude was from 2002

Me.

I got the Greatest Hits and I was like fucking set for life.

fail. greatest hits lacks stone in love.

Sadly, "Stone In Love" has never thrilled me, though it is on my second disc of my two disc set of "Essential Journey". (I found out the hard way I didn't need disc 2)

Wait, Most recently, the Lou Gramm Band has released a self-titled Christian rock album in 2009.

bet it sounds like interesting.

I just heard "That Was Yesterday" at CVS. Thoughts?

I've been feeling guilty lately, so I bought "Greatest Hits" by both. I've also been feeling mean so I gotta go with Foreigner.

Is "I'll Be Alright Without You" the latest intrusion into the eighties that a seventies-style pop song ever made it into the charts? Because that could've been on Infinity just as easily as it was on Raised on Radio and would likely have been a hit in either era. Of course there was a lot of style spillover in the very early years of the decade, but this is 1986.

Anyway, I think it's become, over time, my favorite Journey track. I love that Schon totally holds back where a guitar solo would normally go and just plays that octave "buh...buhbuh" part.

I'd take Jukebox Hero over Dont Stop Believin' any day of the week.

god, i hate 'don't stop believin.' every college dipshit's ironic favorite.

foreigner are kinda genuinely great.

"Stone in Love" - Classic or Greatest 4:25 In The History Of The Bay Area?

Been on a major first-Journey-LP (from 1975) kick lately; I'd still take Foreigner, but it makes the contest a lot closer. Need to investigate those other two pre-Perry albums; they could conceivably tip the scales.

I hadn't heard "Long, Long Way From Home" in ages before the other night on radio, but the sax solo is so great, could almost be Andy Mackay or the Psychedelic Furs guy; not a sound you really hear on classic rock radio. The little Cars-like synth squiggles are a nice touch, too.

Just hearing the s/t 1975 album for the first time. I always expected the pre-Perry stuff to be more ponderous, but even the lengthiest tracks are still pretty tightly structured.

Laugh if you will, but I can't help windmilling air guitar power chords to Juke Box Hero, and I've never felt that urge with a Journey song ever. Plus, the solo in Hot Blooded blew my mind when I was a kid. So, Foreigner wins.

Although, Neal Schon being married to Pat Benatar gives him some cool he'd otherwise lack.

Pat Benatar is married to Neil Giraldo.

(her own band's guitar player since whenever her rock career started, which is pretty impressive in its own way)

yeah i think schon is married to that crazy chick he fake kidnapped that snuck into the white house or whatever

Has anybody heard Journey's soundtrack for Dream After Dream from 1980? Supposed to be all epic jams like the first lp

Is pre-Perry Journey more Santana/fusion-ish?

Foreigner > Loverboy > Journey

Pre perry journey IS Santana minus Carlos and with aynsley Dunbar replacing shrieve

Not much Latin flavor, but it rocks like epic Santana

Btw Abraxis Pool is awful.

Thx for the correction. Got my Neils mixed up.

There sure were a lot of Neils on '70s rock radio.

Adding nothing to this argument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfzJtKZUCw8

I only know Perry-era Journey but I rate them over Foreigner. Foreigner has some classic singles but any of their albums that I've listened to all the way through has contained plenty of filler while Escape is pretty consistently great. Even for singles, I'd take Journey's best over Foreigner's.

I love Lou Gramm forever, and Foreigner are cool but there's something about their songs where I'm happier hearing them in the supermarket than putting on a whole album.

Perry-era Journey for me are at least a little more rockin'. Separate Ways! big-nose is a douchebag and I personally think Gramm smokes him vocally but there's just something a bit more fun about Journey. Foreigner is a little uptight? I dunno.

Jukebox Hero's awesome though.

Foreigner is fucking awesome.

fun fact: that's lou gramm contributing backing vox on "cuts like a knife"

six degrees of bryan adams probably deserves own thread.

I am all about "Urgent" today.