Modern Rock #1 Hits of 1995

really, really dire lineup from what was actually a pretty good year.

This is the first year in this poll series where I don't own anything, exactly when my interest in so-called alternative radio faded away and I went off to find my kicks in other scenes.

Green Day by a mile.

And I'm here
To remind you
That only one of these songs is worth damn
It's not fair
To deny that
You lose your mind when you hear this song
You
You
You know you do

"JAR"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x30jgxnfBzM

i never really cared for "You Oughta Know" but i am actually considering voting for it

"JAR" has really been lost in the sands of time, I don't think I've heard it on the radio since 1996...sounds OK i guess? better than "Geek Stink Breath" at least

It's way better than "ok i guess"

I feel weird that it might be down to U2 and RHCP for me. Ugh. Although..."Misery" is a pretty decent song.

I heard "You Oughta Know" the other day and it finally occurred to me that I should congratulate Alanis on her masterful depiction of every unhinged girl I ever regret dating. YES, I'M AWARE OF THE UTTER MESS OF A PERSON I LEFT WHEN I WENT AWAY, FOUR YEARS AGO. STOP CALLING, AND STOP GOING TO MY GIRLFRIEND'S WORK.

Alanis also mastered tinny sounding drums and guitars that sound like they're fed through 9 digital effects processors.

it's weird that i didn't ever realize that Flea and Dave Navarro play on "You Oughta Know" and are in the video until, like, 2 weeks ago

A lot of decent not great, samey sounding grunge songs here. Going to go with "You Oughta Know". Song has really good lyrics and the "And I'm here to remind you..." part is a great hook.

I will vote for any Batman soundtrack hit in any poll except the one by Jewel.

the video has an orchestra of cartoon Batmans! none of the other hits have this! plus it is one of maybe 4-5 U2 songs I actually like.

FRUSTRATED INCORPORATED

was this the lowest number of #1s to date?

(not counting the late '88 start)

Wait until 2000... I think there were like 8 or 9 #1 songs. Radio got more homogenized and awful in the ensuing years...

(I do like that U2 song, I'd just never vote for it in a poll) (also it's no "Moaner")

I'm going to have to vote for it! I didn't like it then but I do now. And I don't have the love for early Bush that lots of ILMers do.

Second would probably be "Misery."

I hate all these songs and feel they should be pushed down a flume into a pool full of gorillas.

those gorillas would be here
to remind you
of the mess you left
when you dumped those songs
it's not fair
to deny them
the bananas they were expecting
you
you
you oughta know

Pretty much the year I threw up my hands and said the hell with it.

you joined the army?

Here is a picture of me a year later at the H.O.R.D.E. festival.

aside from Alanis, I spent most of this year listening to Prince, rave, UK breakbeat/hardcore, trip-hop, drum n bass, industrial and PJ Harvey

"Down By the Water" hit #2 too.

just fyi for you all, you should really get up on Gigapus by Severed Heads from this year, which was basically all kinds of awesome (think "New Order does industrial dance")

gigapus is awesome

this list however is horseshit

god help me am i really about to vote for wonderwall

Wow, this is so much worse than 1994...

JAR still rocks though.

fuck it im voting for lump

god can't help you, jj

I underrate "Lump" because that band went on to give us "Peaches", I song I hate so so so so so much that it permanently tainted everything else they did

'95 was pretty much the start of my alternative alternative phase (and first year of college, natch): Yo La Tengo, Julianna Hatfield, Sebadoh. Y'know, the real fringe stuff. Plus all the stuff I discovered from mixtapes made by my riot grrrl friend who I crushed on massively (Softies, Lois, the proto S-K bands).

(And who's all super normal and married and domesticated now, of course.)

I listened to a lot of Tricky in '95.

I detect some sarcasm in your post, Deric, but you remind me of some former band members of mine who wanted to cover "Box Elder" because it was "an obscure song from an obscure band."

Oh shit. This is the year I graduated from high school and I distinctly remember Name being played CONSTANTLY ugh. I never liked Alanis at all. I don't remember what JAR is. Huh. I was in the Soul Asylum official fan club around that time (don't judge! OK you totally can but I will still rep for a couple of their early albums) and did like Misery. Hmmmmmmm.

xxxpost

(I told her recently that I'd found my stash of her old zines and she was like "BURN THEM!!")

I listened to a lot of Tricky in '95.

In retrospect I am surprised my wife ended up marrying me, given the number of times I played "Overcome" at her in an attempt to be broodingly sexy.

Bush always blew but Gavin Rosdale was so fucking hot when he sang glycerine alone on stage in the pouring down rain at MTVs spring break in '06. Man alive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfatUZ5RDG0

I distinctly remember watching that in my dorm lounge during my freshman year of college and just being like O_O. I have a soft spot for that song as a result. I'll totally sing along if it comes on the radio while I'm driving.

I detect some sarcasm in your post, Deric, but you remind me of some former band members of mine who wanted to cover "Box Elder" because it was "an obscure song from an obscure band."

Yeah, a total goof. But at the time, I certainly felt fringe-y, if only because I discovered a lot of that stuff on my own and didn't know anyone else who was into it.

this is my regularly scheduled "bte was totally underrated through their first three albums but on the fourth then yeah they did start sucking" comment

that's a really bad list though
when i come around was the only green day song i ever really liked (despite people hyping basket case on 94 thread)
and i liked good, as stated but i'd probably go with wonderwall

i don't think anyone ever admits to liking bush but i got that album, little things was probably the best track on it though and didn't really get anywhere

Good is actually really fun to sing along to at a very high volume.

what, I have heard "Little Things" on the radio at least once a week for the past 17 years (xpost)

Which one goes "breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out"? That's the one I hear on the radio most often, I think.

machinehead, that had that werewolf movie tie-in tho

"Machine Head"

x-post lol which movie - OMG THE ONE WITH JULIE DELPY?

I saw that in the movie theater. :/

Oh wait it seems like that was 97 so idk which one you mean.

all 5 of the Sixteen Stone singles are and have always been oppressively overplayed

Because they are oppressively awesome.

No.

yeah the delpy one actually

Oh! That really wasn't a good movie.

oh, no that single was a remix of "mouth" actually? NEVERMIND

I saw it too :(

from Dan Weiss' recent Butch Vig interview:

I thought the Soul Asylum record was underrated as well. It was kind of the right record at the wrong time because it came a few years before alt-country became a thing.

I think it's underrated too. The songwriting is amazing on it, there's some incredible songs. [Vig starts singing a bit of "To My Own Devices"] That was a difficult record to make because... they had all this success with "Runaway Train" and all of a sudden Dave was dating Winona Ryder, they were playing at the White House. And it was hard to get them to focus and start on the record. That was by far the biggest budget record I'd done. Pirner could almost be a street bum, he's such a character and so off in his own world, but I think he's an amazing songwriter. But they kind of fell by the wayside, it didn't have the same kind of success as Grave Dancers Union.

Hold Me Thrill Me - the last great U2 track of the Achtung/Zooropa era - I think it was a holdover from the Zooropa sessions.

x-post - otm

It was

xpost

i liked soul asylum back then but a lot of it doesn't seem to hold up now except for maybe black gold

also, not to bring up hfs again but one of the hfstivals i went to had both soul asylum and primus during the pirner/winona years - primus going into big brown beaver while winona was in attendance at the side of the stage was hilarious

It's embarrassing that we as a society tolerated hair like Pirner's.

lol

He totally had a cameo in Reality Bites btw. That's just so perfect somehow.

one of my friends claims to have slept w/ Alanis in Holland around the time You Oughta Know was blowing up

still can't vote for it in good conscience even on this comedically bad list

anybody own that Soul Asylum record? A '95 example of ship's list of commercial failures.

I have the Soul Asylum record. I loved Misery (but voted WICA) and picked up the CD through a Columbia House or BMV spree, haha.

also, not to bring up hfs again but one of the hfstivals i went to had both soul asylum and primus during the pirner/winona years - primus going into big brown beaver while winona was in attendance at the side of the stage was hilarious

― fauxmarc, Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:44 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol i totally remember listening to the station that weekend and hearing reports about the dustup, les claypool apparently dryly informing him that the name isn't even spelled the same in "Wynona's Big Brown Beaver"

Let me note that despite the overall crappiness of this list, there are 3 songs here that I really like "When I Come Around", "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me" (favorite U2 song by a mile), and "You Oughta Know". That's probably better than some of the later lists will hit.

i love swag U2, even "Discotheque" was cool w/ me

I'm going to have to vote for it! I didn't like it then but I do now. And I don't have the love for early Bush that lots of ILMers do.

Second would probably be "Misery."

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:53 AM (4 hours ago)

WTF Bush is definitely the worst band of the '90s! Worst! And that's stiff competition.

at some point it occurred to me that "you oughta know" kind of sounds like an angsty michael jackson song of the same era

that said, i'm voting for "lump"

"Good" over "Comedown" and "Wonderwall"

re-listening to tomorrow it sounds like an stp knockoff

You Oughta Know, easily.

i chuckle every time someone asserts that in thread

re-listening to tomorrow it sounds like an stp knockoff

― fauxmarc, Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:33 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

that's almost, like, ungenerous to stone temple pilots

it's like a worn-down wicked garden really

I'm here
To remind you
That your chuckles don't mean anything
It's not fair
To pretend that
This song isn't totally awesome
You
You
You oughta know

I find it amusing that both "When I Come Around" and Good ar eon here when they are essentially the same song.

U2 - one of my fave U2 songs.
Bush were terrible, they seemed to be popular solely because of their lead singer's vague physical resemblance to Kurt Cobain.

is she perverted like me? would she go down on you in a theater?

lol wasn't it allegedly about some actor like john larroquette or someone

and are you thinking of me when you fuck her?

it's so weird, given how alanis turned out, how fucking brilliant "you oughta know"s lyrics are, how viciously and concisely she tells her story

dude how were you alive in the 90s and don't know exactly which actor it was (xpost)

There's not a song on this list I like even a little bit.

dig, if you will, a picture of Alanis going down on John Larroquette in a theater

the ones i particularly remember hating at the time are "lump" and "wonderwall"

irl lol xp

omg dan

dude how were you alive in the 90s and don't know exactly which actor it was

that is how much i do not care for this song

wtf You Oughta Know is going to win this? really?

also wtf Bullet With Butterfly didn't hit #1

it's always interesting to see which songs hit #1 vs. which ones actually had longevity on the radio

1979 is the bigger surprise tbh (or will that show up in 96?)

I havent heard JAR in forever and it sounds p rad; You Oughta Know is probably my favorite Flea guest appearance; and I have always had a soft spot for Tomorrow, will never forget the Trouser Press 90s book comparing that song to Bad Company...

probably end up voting for one of those three

1979 was a #1

I find it amusing that both "When I Come Around" and Good ar eon here when they are essentially the same song.

― MarkoP, Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:46 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Except one is the actual best song on this list and the other is by Better than fucking Ezra.

You Oughta Know is probably my favorite Flea guest appearance

"Bust a Move"!

dude how were you alive in the 90s and don't know exactly which actor it was

Two things:

1.) I have never heard that rumor and I was alive in the 90s.

2.) I just googled it and GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE WAHT.

Oasis, easily. Like Deric, I'll give Alanis credit for effectively evoking something.

xp When I Come Around and Good are not the same song. ?

I thought everyone knew who YOK was about.

Although lol at the thought of her giving JL a blowie.

Guys it's so much worse than Laroquette: Dave Coulier!

:O

yes, laroquette is a much more respectable actor to suck off in public, can't deny that.

never loved "Glycerine" but I remember fondly Michael Stipe on MTV introducing the song by explaining the title compounds uses for buggery.

voted Alanis.

I forgot the name of that really bizarre follow-up to Donnie Darko that had like 40 famous people in it, but at one point someone says a phone number and I was bored enough to try calling it, and turns out it was John Laroquette's voicemail.

Yeah anyway..

I disliked that Alanis song then and more so now. It's so horribly over the top bad.

xp don't judge me, Rev

if we're going through the "Nightcourt" cast then Richard Moll is a better fit

http://www.goatley.com/hunter/autos/richard-moll.jpg

i don't even think who it was about was revealed until a few years back, definitely not while the song was big

"Bust a Move"!

I dont think I ever knew Flea was in that, whoops!

i don't even think who it was about was revealed until a few years back, definitely not while the song was big

It wasn't too long afterwards.. I think it was one of those late-90's internet rumors, similar to "marilyn manson was on the wonder years" or "billy corgan was on small wonder."

Except that it's actually confirmed that Uncle Joey and Alanis dated. I just don't think it's confirmed whether "You Oughta' Know" is about him specifically.

I heard that from some pretty major media outlets. I imagine there could be some libel charges flying around if it wasn't true...

I don't know if Alanis ever commented on it, but Dave sure has.

Oh weird, I knew it was Dave Coulier but somehow, that was always Uncle Jesse in my head. I only realized now that it was Uncle Joey.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

http://drpezz.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/biggerunclejeesepic.jpg

I'll always remember him for Out of Control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5kvrZBRgWU

which was undoubtedly when the nickelodeon-cast-member-on-nickelodeon-cast-member cinema bjs were being given in the first place.

almost missed this

"Wonderwall" it is

lots of honorable mentions though. Bush, "Comedown" and Green Day, "When I Come Around" are pretty good

The thing that disturbed me about the Coulier story is that Alanis was still very young when You Oughtta Know came out so she must have been a teenager when she was dating him.

oh that's right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Q55CLrTkg

xxp

ILX needs a You Can't Do That on Television nostalgia thread tbrr

Yeah, like even if she dated him in the early 90s, like it says on wikipedia, she would have been like 16 or 17. The world is gross and sucks.

I am checking out a bunch of these songs I don't recognize by name. So far I don't remember having heard any of them; but that definitely doesn't mean I didn't hear them, since they are precisely the sort of songs I would not have remembered.

You don't ever get to skip the commercials on youtube now? Sonsofbitchesmotherfuckers.

this morning some DJ on a popular ATL radio station said that Breeders "Cannonball" ('93) and Garbage "I'm Only Happy When It Rains" ('95) are the same song. what a dumbass

this should of been the RHCP song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FFtlCtbtC8

"You Oughta Know" has more hooks in it than all these other songs combined.

the whole yoUu youUU youUu OUGHTA KNOE line is balls

"You Oughta Know" has more hooks in it than all these other songs combined.

Come on, "Wonderwall" is all hook.

it's like she's choking on a dick when she sings that

http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp171/deathguardian08/kAlRu.gif

it's so weird, given how alanis turned out, how fucking brilliant "you oughta know"s lyrics are, how viciously and concisely she tells her story

lol some of the worst lyrics ever written matched only by how wretched the delivery is. "in...a thyatrrr" is like a master class in how to be a terrible singer

that said, from this horrible list I actually take "hand in my pocket," a pleasant enough tune despite yet more horrible delivery in the verses. I stab myself in the stomach with a kitchen knife every time I hear her say "I...certainly do" or even think it. fuckin ouch

You're wrong: "All I Really Want" is worse. Much worse. She sounds like a chimp chewing on your earlobe.

I heard "Good" on the radio today and while I never liked it as much as "In The Blood" or "Desperately Wanting" it has kind of grown on me over the years.

I confess before Almighty God and before you my brothers and sisters that I don't really think "Glycerine" is all that bad

Does she know how you told me you'd hold me
Until you died, till you died
But you're still alive

This is some proto-Lavigne, right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JAEbgyxDHM

That's a fast poll. Agree with everyone who sees decline from the '94 list. I'm bleah or worse on almost everything here except (blushing) Better Than Ezra's goofy song (which I used to like and had to check to discover it still sounds pretty good) and "Wonderwall," which I've heard too often. So another one for "Good"!

the harmonica 'solos' on "hand in my pocket" and "head over heels" are the biggest pile of crap ever. she actually plays these annoying circular motifs around the same two notes in every fucking tune of her. shit gets on my nerves

"in...a thyatrrr" is like a master class in how to be a terrible singer

OTM

even at age 12 I realized that Alanis was total shite...though to be fair that was after liking the album (one of probably ~15-20 I owned) for a couple months. I remember hearing her perform on Loveline around the time the CD came out and she did a pretty cracking rendition of "YOK".

alanis weird melisma predates shakira, that's for sure

Am I the only one who thought Alanis Morrissette's shtick was kind of a glossy ripoff of Ani DiFranco's style (similar to the Goo Goo Dolls' cut-rate 'Mats vibe)? There were a handful of mainstream artists around this time who I felt were probably signed on the basis of their ability to ape some unsignable quantity or another.

i'm voting for JAR which is a nice lil tune that i'm not sick of

Never forget.

http://austintownhall.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/angus.jpg

I'm in throes of grunge nostalgia, wishing for Mad Season's "River of Deceit."

is she perverted like me? would she go down on you in a theater?

― The Reverend, Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:56 PM (6 hours ago)

every song on this list is pretty dire; i was a dj at a modern rock radio station at the time, so i was all too familiar with them. Somehow I managed to come away with fond memories involving the Alanis song, so that gets my vote.

clemenza, I'm witchoo. I started listening to that album a little while back to hear "River Of Deceit" and I just kept on going. It's pretty decent! Much better than an Alice In Chains side project had any business being, for sure.

really dismayed that there are people reppin for alanis here

^^^

the way she pronounces "thyatrrr" is hilarious

man i love "when i come around" for some reason

the other songs on this list are hilarious but evocative. i totally remember this year.

"j.a.r." but this is least-diseased-of-all-the-lepers territory here.

I forgot to mention before that "You Oughta' Know" feels, to me, like a series of messages left on an ex's answering machine (while he and his current girlfriend are trying to eat dinner in the next room, obvs).

I wish I could find the chainsaw version of you oughta know. It was dead-on. (and I'm not talking about some Jackyl thing either.)

i voted for "you oughta know" although i was realll suspicious of it when it came out.

ALAN1S

"in...a thyatrrr" is like a master class in how to be a terrible singer

Says the death metal fan.

God why must people be so fucking tiresome

Too much time online maybe?

Whoever first mentioned Laroquette - thank you! It got Night Court on my mind & that ended up being the answer to a question at my weekly trivia game. Yay!

I've got no love for Alanis, especially since I grew up in her hometown and could not avoid her shit as a teenager, but what's wrong with her pronunciation/vocal delivery on the "theatre" line? The enunciation is a little exaggerated. Is that it?

I don't really see anything technically weak about "You Oughta Know". I can appreciate why it's a well-crafted song. I just always take the guy's side when I hear it.

votin lump

I forgot to mention before that "You Oughta' Know" feels, to me, like a series of messages left on an ex's answering machine (while he and his current girlfriend are trying to eat dinner in the next room, obvs).

this is kind of the point/why it's great

I just always take the guy's side when I hear it.

this is worse than just disliking it tbh

i will never ever ever ever ever ever ever get tired of JAR

"Thyatrr" cribbed wholesale from Natalie Merchant

I liked Glycerine and When I Come Around quite a bit when I was 14, but they were def the twin points of no return as far as modern rock was concerned...

Green Day, "When I Come Around" - probably my least favorite track on Dookie, never got it as a hit at all. zzzz.
Live, "Lightning Crashes" - hated this at the time, have warmed up to it a bit, not at all their best though
Better Than Ezra, "Good" - harmless, enjoyable, catchy
Soul Asylum, "Misery" - don't know
U2, "Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me" - i only ever heard the weird al version which sucked
Alanis Morissette, "You Oughta Know" - effective but its shrillness does put me off even though i actually really admire what it's doing
Green Day, "JAR" - don't remember this
Silverchair,"Tomorrow" - this is really good IMO - catchy...weird hook, some surprises, pretty little guitar bit in the middle, doesn't overstay its welcome
Bush, "Comedown" - grating, easily the weakest of the sixteen stone singles
Goo Goo Dolls, "Name" - this is really well-done, blows "Iris" away for sure.
Alanis Morissette, "Hand in My Pocket" - i like this a lot, recently been undermined by weird popularity as a bad choice of songs to sing at live-piano karaoke, which is not a format that favors this song
Presidents of the USA, "Lump" - great, doesn't really transcend its goofiness although the first verse is pretty great lyrically
Red Hot Chili Peppers, "My Friends" - i only remember this from a weird al polka medley and it seemed boring
Bush, "Glycerine" - better than "comedown" but still ugh. i remember mtv later lionizing that spring break performance, like he was a heroic tragic figure because singing in the rain like that meant he was risking being electrified
Oasis, "Wonderwall" - excellent songwriting, nice clear production, memorable on every level - probably the best thing here but just ruined by overplay.

voting for silverchair.

man i love "when i come around" for some reason

― horseshoe, Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:45 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that said, i'm voting for "lump"

― The Reverend, Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:25 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Read an interview with Flea around that time in which he bragged about having bought the fretless only a day or so before recording "You Oughtta Know". Anybody with ears already knew that, dude, sorry.

the two green day tracks here are way above the rest, which is saying something. alanis always has been and always will be terrible.

oh wow i'd been blocking out "lump" in this thread the entire time... the presidents were so effing bad

Driven by the singles "Lump", "Peaches", and "Kitty", their debut album proved to be an absolute delight[citation needed].

The key to PotUSA was in the basitar and guitbass though.

Did those guys ever cross paths with FutureMan?

I think 'Come Down' is beautiful, not "grating". There is never going to be enough people that share my music taste (I call it Whiney G syndrome)

I remember my high school friend being ashamed of owning a Bush cd during their prime. I'm not sure why

If there's one thing I've learned from ILM, it's that it's okay to listen to crappy music as long as you like it. I have a playlist called "mediocre modern rock" that has 5 Bush singles as well as two versions of Times Like These by the Foo Fighters. God, how I despised Bush in their heyday, but listening to what's come along since on rock radio, I get very nostalgic for them.

yeah i liked comedown and definitely don't get glycerine being better than it, glycerine was just kind of sappy and boring

great i think i have to check out sixteen stone again

If there's one thing I've learned from ILM, it's that it's okay to listen to crappy music as long as you like it.

if you can't defend your crappy taste, what good are you as a citizen?

Well I'm here
To remind you
That this is karaoke gold
It's not fair
To deny that
You don't mosh when your friends perform this
You
You
You then sing "Kiss"

(the real problem is that Alanis's unhinged vocal delivery is absolutely A+ perfect for "You Oughta Know" and hilariously out of place and ridiculous on, say, "Ironic")

voting for silverchair.

Was not expecting to see these words on this thread

it's a very hard sentiment to drink

haha

I liked the Silverchair track then and it's listenable now but the lyrics are truly WTF...

There's no bathroom and there is no sink
The water out of the tap is very hard to drink

Very hard to drink,
You gonna wait too, fat boy,
Fat boy, wait til tomorrow

??

LOL xpost

How can you drink water from the tap if there's no sink? The hose in front of the house?

australia really stuck by those dudes

Hold Me Thrill Me... is the best song here by a fair distance, it pains me to admit (usually a hardcore U2 hater, but that's quite a goodun)

five albums over 12 years, all number #1s and all going 3-9 times platinum. i remember catching some later video and being blown away when i found out it was silverchair and not, like, razorlight or something

i call bs on hold me thrill me and suspect there's just a lingering attachment to how hyped it was being part of the batman circus

No, I think it's a decent melodramatic pop number.

Everything else here is turgid, TBH.

kinda bummed i'm not hearing more "good" praise

It was pretty easy to learn on the bass, I'll give it that.

nah i expect it re: bte BUT KNOW BETTER

I can't imagine anyone feeling lingering fondness for the marketing campaign behind Joel Schumacher's Batman. When I hear Hold Me Thrill Me now I think of it as a great lost Zooropa single. I don't think of Val Kilmer and smile.

"tomorrow" is sunk by some of the worst lyrics in post-grunge

I don't think of Val Kilmer and smile.

Who does?

i smile when i think of fat val kilmer

i was saying anyone goes back to remembering batman via the song but overall it definitely had extra hype around it due to the batman thing and that hype, not batman itself, is obvi lingering and clouding judgement here

I smile when I think of Val Kilmer in the Island of Dr Moreau.

there are plenty of U2 songs i dig but not this POS

vote Alanis obv

i vividly remember an MTV News segment about Silverchair in which the fact that Mark Pellington of "Jeremy" fame directed the "Tomorrow" video figured heavily in building up the band's grunge cred, and Kurt Loder talked about Pellington over the part of the video with the pigface guy and while Daniel Johns shrieked "FAT BOYEEE, FAT BOYEEE!" so now in my mind poor Mark Pellington = pigfaced fat boy

i was saying anyone goes back to remembering batman via the song but overall it definitely had extra hype around it due to the batman thing and that hype, not batman itself, is obvi lingering and clouding judgement here

Yeah, I was pretty entranced with Batman Forever's marketing. It's why I joined the Seal fan club and have all four McDonald's glasses in a bulletproof case.

Or, maybe, I enjoy "Hold Me, Thrill Me..." because it was the last really good U2 song and not so much because of its connection to a movie from fifteen+ years ago that I barely remember. HMMMMMM

I WASN'T. WASN'T.

besides the point it's still a wack song

"Hold Me" placed at #30 in the U2 tracks poll, only later songs that placed higher were "Beautiful Day" and "Miss Sarajevo" (which of course came out the same year and wasn't technically a U2 song), so "last really good U2 song" isn't too controversal an assertion really

Silverchair did some aging, holy crap

1995: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_K5ADcrHFv74/S11xjepXAVI/AAAAAAAAD8s/BFAjMUXj3Ow/s320/silverchair2.jpg

Now: http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/artists/304x304/silverchair.jpg

I was expecting something more along the lines of Hanson... http://www.billboard.com/photos/artist/178836-hanson.jpg

Ewwww

wow diplo is now the lead singer of silverchair

Yeah, I forgot the Passengers album came out this year, too. Well, collectively, '95 was the last year U2 put out anything I really liked (although I tried hard to convince myself re: Pop).

I don't really see anything technically weak about "You Oughta Know". I can appreciate why it's a well-crafted song. I just always take the guy's side when I hear it.

ok because I think you rule I dialed up this video on YouTube and it took literally 15 seconds before she said "I'm...hah...pee for you" which is just depressingly bad phrasing & before I could even finish registering my outrage she'd put the emphasis on the 2nd syllable of "baby." what a truly terrible singer, it's not like she's unique in this - the nineties was kind of the death of phrasing, but she's a shining example of how far you can go without knowing what really are the basics

also does she say "deny me of the cross I bear" or "deny me, oh, the cross I bear," that's terrible too either way

I've always felt sorry for the guy too. What'd he do to deserve such grotesque diction spit at him?

fucked a teenager and then left her for someone his own age? "an older version of me" is a pretty striking reversal of the way this kind of thing usually plays out.

dude, you oughta know.

a friend of my wife used to ponder what the "cross-eyed bear that you gave to me" line was abuot

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web03/2010/12/7/9/alanis-morissettes-cross-eyed-bear-7410-1291733575-7.jpg

<3 my mom used to asset that the old hymn was really a lovely children's song called "Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear"

is that really what she says, though - "it's not fair to deny me of the cross I bear"? thought I was done seething with hatred for Alanis years ago but Jesus fuckin Christ the absolute barrel-bottom most simpering weak-ass shitty-intonation navel-gazing funk-free smug-joke '95 post-Athens electric indie rock is better than that

i never paid attention to the lyrics because the sound was bad enough and you're all just ruining it more for me

Ha, OK, I do remember the odd pronunciation of "baby" and happy". (And yeah, I think it's "It's not fair to deny me of the cross I bear that you gave to me", which is pretty ridiculous when I think about it.)

2xposts

alanis/courtney love/jewel/etc really did ruin singing for a whole generation of white women

ok because I think you rule I dialed up this video on YouTube and it took literally 15 seconds before she said "I'm...hah...pee for you" which is just depressingly bad phrasing & before I could even finish registering my outrage she'd put the emphasis on the 2nd syllable of "baby." what a truly terrible singer, it's not like she's unique in this - the nineties was kind of the death of phrasing, but she's a shining example of how far you can go without knowing what really are the basics

also does she say "deny me of the cross I bear" or "deny me, oh, the cross I bear," that's terrible too either way

let me take a moment to talk about how you are 100% wrong here

The whole point of the first four lines is to communicate barely controlled, unhinged rage, which is why they start out clipped, staccato quarter notes with weird accents on the wrong syllables of the words. Once the words start flowing on the eighth notes, you notice the important syllable of each line is on the first whole step down, which is also gets a stress in the vocal line. Then, the dam really starts to burst in the pre-chorus with the muttered, rushed-sounding 16th notes tumbling over each other that open up into the howled chorus.

Every vocal inflection in that song reinforces the idea that the person singing it is really fucking pissed and slightly unbalanced, which also plays to the pathos of the situation (teen girl in a relationship with a much older dude who gets dumped penning a hate letter to her ex). This also fits in with the awkwardness of the lyrics, which veer from self-pitying purple prose (aforementioned cross line) to prosaic, straightforward venom ("Every time I scratch my nails down someone else's back I hope you feel it" oh btw this crazy person is going to be taking the fallout of this relationship out on everyone else she gets with; kudos exploitative dude).

Alanis has done some really stupid, shitty songs but "You Oughta Know" isn't one of them.

Has this come up yet?

http://brunching.com/alanislyrics.html

yeah "You Oughta Know" for all its faults did make a lot of her tics that seemed so dippy on later upbeat singles feel like part and parcel of that song's rage at the time

I'll admit that I'm not really that fussy about singers accenting normally unaccented syllables for the sake of music (e.g. Avril's "frustrated).

I guess I was just surprised that people found the pronunciation of "theatre" odd.

xpost to myself

I wrote an Alanis song! Thanks, Jer.

I feel miserable
Rice make me ill
I feel miserable
Forks tear at my foundations
I feel miserable
Spoons are dragging me down to the depths of misery
I want to die

Is it because of pinto beans that I feel this way?
With the yellow rays of misery pounding on my brain?
Or am I lost in tale of Keats, adrift far from home
I don't think so, I don't think so.

YPatrck Broke My Will to Live
YPatrck Broke My Will to Live
YPatrck Broke My Will to Live
I was getting better but then
YPatrck Broke My Will to Live

I feel miserable
Avocados rot the flesh from my bones
I feel miserable
Tomatoes defeat my purpose
I feel miserable
Garlic cloves are doing their best to impale my soul
I want to die

Is it because of pinto beans that I feel this way?
With the yellow rays of misery pounding on my brain?
Am I lost in tale of Keats, adrift far from home
I don't think so, I don't think so.

YPatrck Broke My Will to Live
YPatrck Broke My Will to Live
Oh God, Patrck Broke My Will to Live
I was getting better but then
YPatrck Broke My Will to Live

bitching about syllable emphasis in "You Oughta Know" makes about as much sense as bitching about syllable emphasis in the "O Fortuna" movement of Carmina Burana

i wrote an Alanis song from my son's perspective re: bath time

"Why"

Rubber duckies, shampoo, toy boat
Why God, Why?
Shampoo, towel, bath time
Why God, Why?

What have I done to deserve this red horror?
Surrounded on all sides with the Hell of bath time
Like a Dr. Seuss character, I'm wordy and alone
Why God, Why?

Drain plug, rubber duckies, water
Why God, Why?
Bath time, water, toy boat
Why God, Why?

What have I done to deserve this red disaster that is my life?
Surrounded on all sides with the Hell of bath time
Like a Dr. Seuss character, I'm wordy and alone
Why God, Why?

What have I done to deserve this red misery?
Surrounded on all sides with the Hell of bath time
Like a Dr. Seuss character, I'm wordy and alone
Why God, Why?

Why God, Why?
Why God, Why?
Why God, Why?
Why God, Why?

The whole point of the first four lines is to communicate barely controlled, unhinged rage

i lol'd

Every vocal inflection in that song reinforces the idea that the person singing it is really fucking pissed and slightly unbalanced

yeah, we part ways hard here - you're a considerably better singer than I am, but every vocal inflection in this song reinforces how badly written the lyric is & how the singer isn't smart enough to know what to do about that imo. it doesn't convey pissed & unbalance to me - it conveys "maybe if I sell this as pissed & unbalanced by using rookie garbage technique like putting the wrong stress on the -by in 'baby,' that'll compensate for what a shitshow this is"

(Btw, thanks, J0hn! You rule too!)

not be all 'lol sheeple' but a lot of the millions of people who flocked to alanis when that song came out are probably just as dumb and musically/gramatically ignorant as her

the nineties was kind of the death of phrasing

And the advent of all vowels sounding like a fucked-up schwa.

but also the cross line isn't "purple prose" - it's literally senseless, and it'd be disingenuous to say "she's so pissed she's throwing in extra prepositions." She's just singing a very badly written line. I can't deny you of anything. I deny you a things directly: deny you the cross, deny you a sandwich, deny you a new Alanis Morissette record. If I try to deny you of a sandwich you will say, "Fuck off dude I'm going to eat of this sandwich" and you'll still be righter than me

ah the affective fallacy!

i was not a happy camper in 1995 and all these songs are a small but important fraction of the reason

fwiw i don't think she's saying "deny me of" but don't know what the consensus is on that line

so basically in summation, you hate the song and don't actually give a flying fuck about why people might like it

it's definitely "deny me of the cross i bear that you gave to me" which is truly amazing construction

courtney love does not deserve to be lumped in with alanis and jewel as a singer

all these years later it is still mysterious and amazing that anybody likes alanis morissette

the U2 song is all right; secretly the most improved imo is "name", haha

but really this is a dire lineup

i don't dislike courtney's singing but it has had a negative influence imo

so basically in summation, you hate the song and don't actually give a flying fuck about why people might like it

no, I found your defensio really interesting and good, I just don't buy it as an explanation of what's going on - I can be interested in what you're saying and still disagree ffs! tho yeah my visceral "ugh, this" to this song is unlikely to be swayed by any argument

wait FLEA is playing bass on you oughta know?

yes. which shouldn't surprise me so much because that little "doot-doo-doo-doo" after the first chorus is my favorite part of the song.

so until today i had never listened to this song on anything other than like a car stereo or computer speakers and i was like "oh wow theres some cool stuff going on w/the bass there" and off to wikipedia and now i'm like how did i never know that?

The guys playing behind her in the video look like JC Penny models or something.

it's a song i'm v. ambivalent towards; i think the first half of the chorus bails out everything else.

for a long time i thought "bear" was "baby" and the song was in part about getting knocked up

cross-eyed baby you gave to me?

yeah, what do you want i was 11 in 1995

cross-eyed babies on some serious 1995 shit. it's cool.

lol otm

anyway alanis always has a place in my heart for "uninvited" from her unplugged album, that shit is sick

Y'all, particularly DJP's long post (which i feel proud of myself for identifying as DJP two sentences in) are making me want to swing around and defend "You Oughta Know," don't really get the level of vitriol towards it. It's not my favorite thing on the album but it's well-delivered and effective post-breakup spleen-rock that connected with an audience convincingly and had some really memorable passages, yes partly because they were delivered in such a nonconventional (some would say "bad") way, but also because there were striking turns of phrase that were in fact pretty boundary-pushing for radio-oriented rock at the time. By the standards of indie/college stuff this is not a groundbreaking song, but by the standards of "we're trying really hard to have a giant hit record here" it's pretty gutsy to throw "would she go down on you in a theater" in the face of alt-rock's lingering macho bullshit. Amos or Phair it ain't (though the vocal tics make a lot of sense as an attempt to absorb the former) but it's not totally stupid.

If I don't go out of my way to hear it today it's because other aspects of it grate increasingly over time - - the wordless bridge in particular carried affective connotations of angst and the saturated sweep of overexposed wastelands at the time but the tactic has been so beaten into the ground that it just doesn't deliver anymore. On the other hand, Ballard's production generally kind of straddles the line between grunge and the busy, shimmery corporate folk-pop sound of the rest of the record (where I think it's pretty solid), meaning that the sound often seems insufficiently thick - - you sort of look around wondering "where'd the rhythm guitar go?" and you're left with clattering but muffled drums, echoing spooky leads (also muffled), and a hapless Flea. Not to say it should have been more "by the numbers" but I'd love to hear it done more in the style of, I dunno...Bush. Or L7 or Nirvana for that matter.

Singing this at karaoke once got me laid, although according to the girl my dancing had more to do with it but I still have a soft spot for the song. Stand by my Silverchair vote though.

A Hapless Flea is the name of my dog.

fwiw btw, "You Learn" is my favorite off this, closely followed by "All I Really Want" and "Hand In My Pocket," so just to be clear I am not hating on Ballard's radio-ready shine, just saying "You Oughta Know" is an awkward hybrid, although I could also buy somebody saying that's what's nice about it, it doesn't sound like a totally generic '94/95 rock radio song.

I like "Hand Over Feet" for the way her voice plays off the guitar licks. On the other hand the vocal on "All I Really Want" is grossgrossgross

*Head Over Feet, heh

"Hand over the feet and nobody gets hurt!"

Singing this at karaoke once got me laid, although according to the girl my dancing had more to do with it but I still have a soft spot for the song.

― Doctor Casino, Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:11 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

really cracking up trying to picture a dude singing YOK at karaoke while dancing seductively

A Hapless Flea is the name of my dog.

yo rong thread

xp Now I know how badly clouded my judgement is by the hype around a film I didn't see 17 years ago I wish I could take back my vote.

if you are really looking for an example of "I don't think this singer actually understands English", you can't do much better than "All I Really Want"

I don't think I ever heard that song

oh you are in for a TREAT

am listening to Geek Stink Breath right now, and it's actually not bad. I never hear this song, and I'm always pleasantly surprised by it when I do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXCCv5ngyI0

along the lines of "moody songs from later in these artists careers that i like," ana's song (open fire) still rules

Alanis is the epitome and greatest example of female strength, intelligence and the "blue" aura!!

Cuishi10 9 months ago

my last post was an xpost from sd saying JAR is better GSB (which it is but)

I'm a 30 year old dude who sings this lyric for lyric in the tone of Alanis Morisette. lol Love this song.

PhuryousOne 1 month ago

the "blue" aura?

are we talking about 50 shades of grey again?

All I really want
Is an antacid
Because my stoawowohwowaomach is killing me

oh you are in for a TREAT

lolll oh holy shit this really does touch all the bases doesn't it

I mean I think I made it clear upthread; my defense of Alanis itt pretty much ends at "You Oughta Know"

I will concede that she is, for me, behind a certain Rawlsian veil of teenagerdom where I can't ever sit down and be objective and say "All I Really Want is kind of not a very good song" because I know every word and just love singing along and always will.

I know we were not the only people to do something like this but my wife and I retitled "Ironic" to "A Bitch" to make the lyrics more accurate

'Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me'... which was probably the last time I heard a U2 that made me go: "hey, I usually loathe this band, but that wasn't too bad..."

The thing with "All I Really Want" is how it starts mysterioso and ominous before transforming into the sound of a baby gargoyle stuffed in a blender.

*track

Also, language experts, how, pray, did she come up with "and ah'm CONSUMED by the CHEEL of SOLitaree..."?

I know we were not the only people to do something like this but my wife and I retitled "Ironic" to "A Bitch" to make the lyrics more accurate

IRL lols

just watched the first 1:30 of the "Isn't It Ironic" video

erase the fucking 90s imo

Alanis: 'Why are you so petrified of silence... here, can you handle this?' *silence*

Me: "ah, relief".

Alanis: 'Did you think about your...'

Me: "ARGH! ARGHHHH!"

see I love the 90s because to me that means this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5yRipYVr7U

oh no I know, the 90s wasn't exactly hard times for good metal either, but to me Alanis:"the 90s"::Depeche Mode:"the 80s"

when i think about the 90s, i think about adina howard

actually i just think about adina howard all the time

("yo pardon, that bitch been on my mind all week", as ghostface said of her)

don't it make you sad to know that life
is more than who we are

I'm ironic, I'm a lover, I'm a child, I'm a mother, I'm etc

(Just seein if it worked the other way around)

when i think about the 90s, i think about adina howard

"Freak Like Me" was my #2 that year, behind "Be Happy."

one of the guys that produced "Freak Like Me" is from Baltimore! i saw the platinum plaque in his basement studio

when i think about the 90s, i think about paying five bucks to see pavement play at the bar across the street from the record store where i worked.

lots of these Alanis songs actually have pretty nice backing tracks...

when i think about the 90's i think about my little blue fm radio tuning in to richard marx and bryan adams on 99.5 WGAY

okay come on now, no way was that the station's call sign

totally was!

AND it was soft rock

/ easy listening

WGAY AM 1050 and FM 99.5: radio stations in Silver Spring, Maryland that later became WFED and WIHT, respectively

this is still my favorite radio station of all time:

http://www.ontheradio.net/KLIT

they pronounced it "K-lite"

just watched the first 1:30 of the "Isn't It Ironic" video
erase the fucking 90s imo
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:52 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

there are embarrassing things from every decade so maybe we should just erase all of human history

Fucking love "J.A.R.". I'm looking forward to this period when my blog project gets up to '95.

lol mine just got to '96: http://narrowcast.blogspot.com/2012/05/1996-reconsidered.html

http://thealternativetowhat.wordpress.com/

Mine is a little more focused, tracking all of the songs on the Billboard Modern Rock Top 10 between January of 1990 and December of 1999. Just getting started though.

Which is everybody's favorite Alanis from the Ironic video? I think I'd rank mine:

2nd crazy Alanis (you are an extrovert and a little wild, probably very fun on a road trip)
Raver Alanis (you have braids and maybe...drugs?)
Ski Hat Alanis (you have a sweet hoopty, I guess)
1st crazy Alanis (you were an extra in Jacob's Ladder)

Mine is a little more focused, tracking all of the songs on the Billboard Modern Rock Top 10 between January of 1990 and December of 1999. Just getting started though.

nice! Your "House" entry is terrific, btw.

Thanks! I really enjoyed putting that one together.

You may be on to something re its forebear status.

Man, I dont think I will ever not love the video fro "No Myth"

but 6/10 for "Roam"? ;_;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UG9PQDth28

"Hand in my Pocket" still resonates a little bit. I'm an Ottawa kid, so Alanis was unavoidable in 1995.

Remember when she made the front page of the Citizen for wearing dark makeup?

Singing this at karaoke once got me laid, although according to the girl my dancing had more to do with it but I still have a soft spot for the song.

A little off-topic, but this and your mention of Liz Phair remind me of the time I got my ass grabbed after karaoke-ing "Fuck And Run". Which I was really excited to see on the playlist, but whose lyrics I didn't really think about until I'd already started my performance. And although I'm not gay, you probably would've had a hard time convincing that particular barful of gay men of that fact after I'd just spent four minutes singing about wanting a boyfriend. But no one can question my commitment to the performance when it's showtime.

If this doesn't explain the levels of vitriol for the Alanis song then I don't know what will:

I thought about making a youtube poop for 'You Oughta Know' where I'd repeat the you you you you you you you to emphasize the broken record effect that Alanis excels at. I'd probably play about 30 seconds of that. Then I would take the OUGHTA KNOwOHngh! and repeat that a few times so that you can hear the powerful, heartfelt release of EMO desperation that really kills any kind of mood that the listener might have.

Have you ever heard that noise of someone about to cry? - that ungh-ungh-ungh sound. The you-you-you in all of its EMOness sort of reminds me of that.

OK, I'm done

rip rev 105

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

oh the humanity

sucks

only one of these songs mentions a placenta iirc

You oughta be ashamed.

i don't especially like YOK but honestly there wasn't very robust competition for it

6 votes for "Hand In My Pocket" is far more shocking

If you six JAR voters had strategically voted for When I Come Around . . .

JAR >>>> When

^^^^

And I'm here
To gloat at you
Because this song is awesome
It's not fair
It's so awesome
But that's just the way it goes sometimes
You
You
You gotta suck it

lol

Uhhh...huh. I don't think I got a chance to actually vote. Oh, well. There's nothing in the list that I actively hate, despite how objectively terrible it may be. I think I've even developed a level of nostalgic affection for "Good", which was one of my worst and most hated songs on the radio back then (There was something about the opening line, "Lookin' around the house", which indicated to me a distinct lack of trying, akin to opening with "Twiddlin' mah thumbs" or "Readin' my Froot Loops box". Like, COME BACK AND WRITE THE SONG WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY.)

the u2 and pusa voters are the ppl who have some explaining to do

i can't even conceive of a reality in which the U2 and PUSA songs aren't easily among the better options

Seriously.

no those songs are.....not good

yeah but i don't think there are >6 songs on that list that are better

i just realized that Green Day is the one band where my enjoyment of any given song is directly linked to the BPM. "Basket Case" is great, "Longview" is good, "When I Come Around" gets my attention wandering, and anything as slow as "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" is torture.

Dan, which gives you more joy, You Oughta Know lyric parodies or Video Games lyric parodies?

i can't even conceive of a reality in which the U2 and PUSA songs aren't easily among the better options

otm

no those songs are.....not good

otm

^ gets it

dear god lump

Song meanings page for Lump is a treat.

Sorry for this, but I don't see why it hasn't been mentioned.

The line, "mud flowed up into lump's pajamas"...

She's bedridden and incontinent.

She has accidents.
greyoak

She's lump, meaning she's pretty lazy and emotionless, but still alive. She spent her twenties in between sheets...maybe all she did was have sex with people...or party. And she lingered last in line for brains, the one she has is sort of rotten and insane...she's not all that smart or sane.
ashballsack

This song is written about "the load" a guy is about to blow by jacking off. Not trying to be graphic, but I thought it was obvious. "Lump" is semen. He is trying to get it out of his "head" which is basically his dick.

It seems obvious the song is about sperm that is ejaculated and they are making some funny play on words describing this.
drumcomposer

yeah i'm prettty sure its about an inactive tumor. makes sense mostly
LifeLikeWeeds

It sounds to me like he's talking about a girl who used to be really wild, but then drugs turned her into a boring lump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ai5cgFar0

but 6/10 for "Roam"? ;_;

Been away from my computer, so I just saw this. I know "Roam" is totally beloved around ilm, I've just never been that enamored with it. Although there was some more discussion about the song here shortly after I wrote that post and I think I may just bump it up to a 7 in retrospect.

Alanis Morissette, "Hand in My Pocket" 6

You couldn't resist the shitty faux-Dylan harmonica solo.

If you six JAR voters had strategically voted for When I Come Around . . .

Yeah but JAR is a less boring/predictable choice and it rules

"Hold Me Thrill Me" are some lyric changes and a completely revamped arrangement away from being a good song, and that is closer than any of these other toonz.

reen Day is the one band where my enjoyment of any given song is directly linked to the BPM. "Basket Case" is great, "Longview" is good, "When I Come Around" gets my attention wandering, and anything as slow as "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" is torture.

"Macy's Day Parade"?

i don't hate it like i do "Boulevard," but i don't enjoy it the slightest bit either

some dude 100% otm. slow Green Day songs are so awful. "look, I slowed the song down, it must be more emotional." No, it's the exact same song played slower and with a hammy prom-ready chorus now. cf. Poison doing ballads, a near-exact analogue

also Crüe

Alfred's hierarchy is dead-on (although I'd make room for "Walking Contradiction" at the top, and I tired of "Basket Case" quickly)--in any event, Green Day ballads are the worst.

still not exactly sure what "Roam" people have been referring to and will just assume it's the B-52s

in honor of this thread I listened to the Green Day comp in the car -- man, it gets sludgy from tracks 10-16.

people, you're overlooking that the biggest problem with "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" is that it's called "Boulevard of Broken Dreams", it's liking calling a song "Gang of Dogs Playing Poker"

Would listen to that song, tbh.

well obv it wd be better than "Boulevard of Broken Fucking Dreams"

Gotta demur on "Every Rose Has Its Thorn"--great! Even Marcus, who wrote a great long thing at the time decrying how the video represented everything evil and corrupt in pop music as Nirvana entered the picture, grudgingly conceded it was a good song (if I'm remembering his piece correctly).

You are.

people, you're overlooking that the biggest problem with "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" is that it's called "Boulevard of Broken Dreams", it's liking calling a song "Gang of Dogs Playing Poker"

no it's not because the second song would rule

OKAY OKAY BAD ANALOGY

regardless of how you feel about hair metal power ballads, '90s alt-rock power ballads are worse. i mean, fucking "Lightning Crashes" is in this poll.

it always baffles me that people rep for "Every Rose Has Its Thorn", which is without a doubt one of the worst songs ever recorded in the history of mankind that doesn't feature blatant racism

You know, not to belabor the point, but especially a Green Day song called "Gang of Dogs Playing Poker".

Hair Metal guys tended to have a good voice for the ballads whereas alt-rock guys wd just be grunting in a more sincere register

do you realize that if someone had just dropped a giant boulder on Poison back before "Talk Dirty To Me" came out, the world would be a much better place today

Not a good start to the long weekend: I reread the 21st Century Breakdown thread this morning because I forgot that Green Day released another album after 2004 and it was called 21st Century Breakdown.

you'd have to say Green Day's "animals engaged in popular pastimes" concept album's probly got a 50/50 chance of appearing eventually

only if the animals lived in red states

where poker is mostly legal, strangely enough.

have to give the dogs something to do

they should title it Doggystyle, a concept album about being alienated and homosexual in a red state

That list of songs is 83 wasted mouse-clicks.

in re: "Every Rose":

To hear that tears me up inside
And to see you cuts me like a knife

all responsible for these words finding public purchase should be taken out to sea and cast into the watery depths, fuck "every rose" forever

Not a good start to the long weekend: I reread the 21st Century Breakdown thread this morning because I forgot that Green Day released another album after 2004 and it was called 21st Century Breakdown.

― go down on you in a thyatrr (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, May 25, 2012 10:14 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

put your big boy pants on, because Green Day is set to release THREE ALBUMS this year

have we ever polled one of those "monster ballads" hair metal comps they used to advertise on tv?

To hear that tears me up inside
And to see you cuts me like a knife
oh it's called love
and it's cuts through life like a broken knife
it's called love love love love love

put your big boy pants on, because Green Day is set to release THREE ALBUMS this year

Thought you were kidding on this, but wow. Creatively titled ¡Uno!, ¡Dos! and ¡Tré!.

I loled.

hahaha wait

this is my favorite stupid album conceit since Sweat/Suit

¡Catorce!

hahahahaha omg

Thought you were kidding on this, but wow. Creatively titled ¡Uno!, ¡Dos! and ¡Tré!.

Please tell me that is going to be like the KISS solo albums from the 70s.

please tell me that these are going to be salsa reinterpretations of the first two Led Zepplin albums and the third Chicago album

i do hope the third one is just a Tre Cool solo album, his stupid showboating drum solos >>> Billie Joe's songs at this point

grunting in a more sincere register
might break my no new usernames rule for this

do you realize that if someone had just dropped a giant boulder on Poison back before "Talk Dirty To Me" came out, the world would be a much better place today

"Talk Dirty To Me" is hilarious, silly fun, I cast you out demon, etc.

DJP! Talk dirty to me is fuckin great.

CC pick up that guitar!

it's no "Nothin' But a Good Time."

I guess I should thank Poison for being so indescribably terrible that they drove me away from pop radio and into industrial and indie when I was 13

thanks Poison, you sad sack of shit for a band!

DJP this anti-Poison stance is not OK!

the one thing I will grant Poison is that Bret Michaels is a better singer than Axl Rose

although really a dead turtle is better than Axl Rose, so I guess my stance is "Poison: about as good as a dead turtle"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Open_Up_and_Say_Ahh_Cover.jpg

The album sucked, but that cover was like the "Yesterday & Today" of my youth.

my favorite Poison story:

as teenaged guys are wont to do, a bunch of us were hanging out talking about female musicians we thought were hot and one guy said "the drummer from Poison, man she's GORGEOUS"

hahahaha

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/RikkiRockett.JPG/800px-RikkiRockett.JPG

since when was the drummer even a hot chick?

Shades of Family Guy:

Peter: If you could be stranded on a desert island with any woman in the world, who would it be?
Glen Quagmire: Taylor Hanson.
Joe Swanson: Taylor Hanson is a guy.
Glen Quagmire: [Laughs] You guys are yankin' me. "Hey, let's put one over on Quagmire."
Peter: No, he's actually a guy, Quagmire.
Glen Quagmire: What? That's insane. That's impossible.
[Pause]
Glen Quagmire: Oh god. Oh my god. I've got all these magazines. Oh god.

he was going off of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b7/Poison-Look-What-the-Cat-Dragged-In.jpg

when we told him that was a guy, his response was "well if he was a chick I'd totally do her"

that whole LA school of "Liking the NY Dolls But Not Understanding What Made Them Good" was a toxic moment in music...you might even say it was...poison

Wow. That's a LOT of makeup on those dudes. I can see it (not sure which is the drummer there.. based off prettiness, bottom left?)

re the Poison album sleeve: are those their nicknames?

Wow. That's a LOT of makeup on those dudes. I can see it (not sure which is the drummer there.. based off prettiness, bottom left?)

I think that's CC? My guess is bottom right because that makes the story even more hilarious

Quoting lyrics to discredit good-to-great pop songs is really kind of dead end...

You'll burn the house down, then you'll do it again, and again, and again still.

hey wait are Poison to blame for the 2012 duckface epidemic? Hmmm..

that whole LA school of "Liking the NY Dolls (Insert Band) But Not Understanding What Made Them Good" was a toxic moment in music

Fixed. I mean, this is pretty descriptive of a whole slew of the shittiest music in the world.

drummer is bottom dude on the right side, cece is bottom dude on left side, bret is top left

"bottom dude" of course an homage to http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?action=showall&boardid=77&threadid=79985

Quoting lyrics to discredit good-to-great pop songs is really kind of dead end...

I disagree strongly with this and offer as exhibit A for the defense Holland/Dozier/Holland's immortal run in the 60s. Exhibit B is Ashford & Simpson's arguably even greater run. Great pop songs have great lyrics for decades, I'm not quite sure exactly when that goes south but it doesn't have to be wordy nerdy stuff to be great: it just has to not be quantifiably bad & horrible. Acts that go "well, pop isn't really about the lyrics" and write garbage are shitty acts imo. A really really great song can get a pass on some clams, the Stylistics write really effective songs whose lyrics are but fuck "hey, I've got a not-terrible melody so "to hear that tears me up inside/and to see you cuts me like a knife" is an acceptable payoff line. One can comb through the greats listed above and say "well, here's a line where they stumbled" but most of the time they were writing fun killer pop tunes whose lyrics didn't suck. Literally all it takes is 1) not being a dumbass and 2) taking a minimal amount of pride in your work

Stylistics...whose lyrics are "not always at the level of the musicianship"

& actually I've never looked at the writing credits on a Stylistics record and for all I know it's some in-house dude writing "Stone In Love With You"

Hugo and Luigi mate.

Just noticed that these are the same font:

http://i.imgur.com/AvZPS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SKVR2.jpg

Actually, not this one:

"I'm Stone in Love with You" was a 1972 hit by the Philadelphia soul group The Stylistics. The song was written by Thom Bell, Linda Creed, and Anthony Bell.

Yeah, lots of cruddy typewriter fonts in the 90s.

I'm at work, and it's hard to respond with counter-examples right now, but give me some time and I'll have loads. I've loved songs about birds that surf, about woolly bullies and chewy chewies, about men who profess their love for cows. I've loved every kind of song imaginable. If you're saying everything else that's great about pop music is able to transform a lyric that would otherwise die on the page, then we don't have a disagreement.

eddie vedder BOUGHT A TYPEWRITER and did a lot of the pearl jam liner notes and lyric sheets with it

aerosmith, you're clearly someone who cares a lot about lyrics (and who is, himself, a spectacular lyricist), but there's a lot of room for awesome pop songs with shitty lyrics. I mean, that way lies a dismissal of probably the majority of pop music ever released. Which you're free to do, but I'd wager a lot of people would disagree with that dismissal. Also, I have strong love for a lot of songs where the lyrical content is basically incidental and secondary to the presence of voice qua voice.

yeah i mean lousy lyric writing can be as much an essential part of the character of an enjoyable piece of music as lousy musicianship. it's not all about appreciating how smart and talented the person who made the song is.

I'm at work, and it's hard to respond with counter-examples right now, but give me some time and I'll have loads. I've loved songs about birds that surf, about woolly bullies and chewy chewies, about men who profess their love for cows. I've loved every kind of song imaginable. If you're saying everything else that's great about pop music is able to transform a lyric that would otherwise die on the page, then we don't have a disagreement.

this is a point aside though - subject matter is no barrier to decent lyrics, and decent lyrics need not be brainy lyrics. "Tutti Frutti" is an excellent lyric. That's partly because "daisy" and "crazy" rhyme. "tears me up inside" and "cuts me like a knife" is the lyric-writing equivalent of farting in your listener's face. "dumb" i.e. inconsequential lyrics aren't dumb at all! "Every Rose"'s lyrics are stupid in an insulting, turgid way.

grammar isn't a barrier either - this isn't about Ooh It's Not Smart Enough. It's about having some respect for the actual song you're writing, doing well by it. Poison hasn't passed that test even once, they fucking suck & have always sucked

The lyrics to "Surfin' Bird" and "Wooly Bully" are dumb, but they are not shitty. Big difference.

x-post what the head goat said.

like if Poison had written "Surfin' Bird," they should be so lucky, the line would have been "have you heard/about the curb/everybody's heard/about the curb/c-c-c-curb curb curb, curb is the word" and then they would get all mad when I curb-jobbed Bret M

TS: "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" vs "What's Up?"

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/glee/images/3/36/Santana_rolling_her_eyes.gif

xpost

It's basically the argument made by people who were horrified by the first Ramones album. Today, (most) everyone recognizes those lyrics as brilliantly minimalist and absurd and all the rest--and some people did then, too. But it was pretty much the same argument. Now, I understand that "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" does not operate on the same plane as the Ramones. But whether you're talking about one or the other, I don't see much difference in saying, "The lyrics are the lyrics, the song is the song, and one is not interchangeable with the other."

"What's Up" is more easily sung/clucked in the voice of a psychotic chicken.

clemenza, thank you for explaining in a nutshell how Kara DioGuardi has a career

Quoting lyrics to discredit good-to-great pop songs is really kind of dead end...

― clemenza, Friday, May 25, 2012 11:25 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

yeah i mean quoting lyrics, whether to admire or ridicule, is good fun and all but using it to 'prove' an argument about the record's worth is basically the lowest form of music criticism

It's basically the argument made by people who were horrified by the first Ramones album. Today, (most) everyone recognizes those lyrics as brilliantly minimalist and absurd and all the rest--and some people did then, too. But it was pretty much the same argument."

it's not at all - as I just said, there's plenty of room for dumb, fun, actually-well-written lyrics. This has nothing to do with ppl singing about the French revolution or w/e. It has to do with lyrics that bring some semblance of care to the table. Most people will never notice, which is sort of the big reveal of this era, which is kinda why I hate it: suddenly there's literally nobody writing anything worth parsing, and people start comparing Guns n Roses to for example Aerosmith, whose lyrics, while kinda dumb, are also very clever, rhythmically completely awesome, and suit their music well. Poison are one of the bands who say "you know, I'll bet most people, critics too, don't give a shit one way or the other" - I count that as a big loss, door swings wide open for an avalanche of shit

yeah i mean quoting lyrics, whether to admire or ridicule, is good fun and all but using it to 'prove' an argument about the record's worth is basically the lowest form of music criticism

lol gimme a hierarchy of music criticism sd - does talking about form or composition ever come into it, or is it mainly cultural-crit?

xpost

See, I have to stop you there because (and I may be severely in the minority here) I actually find a lot of Guns N' Roses lyrics (particularly Use Your Illusion-era) to be surprisingly thoughtful.

yeah i mean quoting lyrics, whether to admire or ridicule, is good fun and all but using it to 'prove' an argument about the record's worth is basically the lowest form of music criticism

lol gimme a hierarchy of music criticism sd - does talking about form or composition ever come into it, or is it mainly cultural-crit?

― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, May 25, 2012 12:31 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

uh yeah, i was taking a stance against cultural crit, duh

there was an undeniable devolution from Bon Scott and The Real S Dot Tyler and David Lee Roth writing these kind of over-the-top but ultimately witty and fairly well constructed dirty limericks to some of the "she's my cherry pie" shit that followed in their footsteps, but history has already kind of settled that argument so definitively that it's kind of beside the point

there was an undeniable devolution from Bon Scott and The Real S Dot Tyler and David Lee Roth writing these kind of over-the-top but ultimately witty and fairly well constructed dirty limericks to some of the "she's my cherry pie" shit that followed in their footsteps, but history has already kind of settled that argument so definitively that it's kind of beside the point

lol as you can imagine I will still be loudly rejecting history's verdict on this when they lower me into the grave

you're rejecting the verdict that early Aerosmith and VH is better than Poison? huh?

I understand the distinction you're making, I really do, but it's based on a very 2012 assumption that

I don't wanna walk around with you
I don't wanna walk around with you
I don't wanna walk around with you
So why you wanna walk around with me?

always counted as "lyrics that bring some semblance of care to the table." It really wasn't always that way; the things you're saying to dismiss "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" were exactly the things people said about the Ramones in 1976 (or "Love to Love You Baby," for that matter).

xp no no, that's my exact verdict, it's exactly where my complaining comes in - people defending Warrant say "what's not to like, Van Halen was dumb & so's this!" and it's like saying "what? you like to eat Doritos, here's a milkshake with actual human shit in it, same diff!"

Y'all, this convo is so 1989.

every strawman sings a sad, sad song

dude most lyricists I know would look at those Ramones lyrics and see something actually clever going on, something that takes super-careful account of how stuff hits your ear, how syllables ride the rhythm: something that is actually listening to what the words sound like against the tune. "Every Rose," stem to stern, is just like...so profoundly bad, it would be a better song if he'd just spewed obscenities or something, or done nonsense syllables, made animal noises, anything really

every strawman sings a sad, sad song

lol, nice try

yeah i mean lousy lyric writing can be as much an essential part of the character of an enjoyable piece of music as lousy musicianship. it's not all about appreciating how smart and talented the person who made the song is.

vs.

there was an undeniable devolution from Bon Scott and The Real S Dot Tyler and David Lee Roth writing these kind of over-the-top but ultimately witty and fairly well constructed dirty limericks to some of the "she's my cherry pie" shit that followed in their footsteps

"strawman! strawman!" lol

I think one of the main distinctions here is that Van Halen/Wooly Bully doesn't try to pretend it's something it's not.

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure some flunky in a dark recording studio lit up by candles said to Bret Michaels over the PA, "Dude, I think you got it."

^^^

where in the hell did this thread go

when the aero rose showed its thorns

I just wanna come right out and state that any general defense of dumb lyrics I posit in this thread should in no way be taken as a defense of "Every Rose Has Its Thorn". Which, frankly, is a shitty song on more levels than just the lyrical.

dude most lyricists I know would look at those Ramones lyrics and see something actually clever going on...

I wonder if Bernie Taupin looked at the Ramones in 1976 and felt like that; I'm going to guess that he was appalled, and also that most of the lyricists you know are under the age of 75 (i.e., were no older than 35 in 1976). Anyway, work calls, pplains is bored, and I feel like only pinch-hitting for xhuxk here anyway. Which is, as everyone's favorite lyricist would say, ironic.

where in the hell did this thread go

my lovely *guitar lick*

it would be a better song if he'd...made animal noises

if the internet weren't what it is & things weren't what they are, not that I'm complaining, I would track this version of "Every Rose" in Garageband right now & yall would get good lols btw

xp no no, that's my exact verdict, it's exactly where my complaining comes in - people defending Warrant say "what's not to like, Van Halen was dumb & so's this!" and it's like saying "what? you like to eat Doritos, here's a milkshake with actual human shit in it, same diff!"

― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, May 25, 2012 12:40 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is a strawman, dude, nobody said this. people made an argument for Poison being acceptable when taken on its own terms, and i pointed out that those terms in no way lead anyone to putting them on equal footing w/ actual great bands, which you took to mean the opposite.

haha clemenza Bernie Taupin has no business accusing anyone of writing terrible lyrics.

pplains is bored

You got me wrong, mang. I haven't listened to Poison all day.

what about last night?

I wonder if Bernie Taupin looked at the Ramones in 1976 and felt like that; I'm going to guess that he was appalled

I bet Shadow Morton, who I rank over Taupin, looked and nodded approvingly

I think we should rank the relative success of all pop songs by how many awkward teenage handjobs they inspired. In that case, "Every Rose" towers over every other song brought up in this discussion. By any other definition however, its a profoundly shitty song.

one of the funniest things about Rock of Love, and there were many, was how "Every Rose" was constantly referenced and as an emotional device, because it was the closest thing Bret could lay claim to as an actual great, enduring song, and the more skanks would quote its lyrics to him or he'd get all misty remembering writing it or whatever the more hilarious its pseudo-profundity would get. and of course, it actually made me like the song more.

referenced and USED as an emotional device

I think we should rank the relative success of all pop songs by how many awkward teenage handjobs they inspired

then pop music was for me a horrible waste of youth

if any of the awkward teen handjobs I received had been inspired by any Poison song but ESPECIALLY "Every Rose Has Its Thorn", I would consider my life to be a failure and I also would have castrated myself sometime in my twenties

the brain-damaged Springsteen antics of their post-Extreme acoustic move "Something To Believe In" may be even more entertaining, though

self handjobs count, of course

okee doke dude it looks to me like you switched horses hard at one point but maybe I missed your point about how

lousy lyric writing can be as much an essential part of the character of an enjoyable piece of music as lousy musicianship

by the way what was more depressing Rock of Love or Flavor of Love

the brain-damaged Springsteen antics of their post-Extreme acoustic move "Something To Believe In" may be even more entertaining, though

oh my God I hate that one too

"addled" best describes "Something to Believe In."

I have something for you to believe in, Bret, it's called "my fists, swinging"

Flavor of Love was definitely more depressing, white trash minstrel shows don't have nearly as much racial tension

^^^ otm

i was always on the same horse but i also wasn't actually involved in the initial defense of "Every Rose" and was jumping on the tangential back end of that convo, so my POV may have been understandably conflated w/ someone else's

i mean tbh i have no idea how your argument here squares with your old rant at me about how eminem's hooks are above criticism because people bought those records by the boatload, but i'm assuming there's an apple and orange somewhere

btw thank you Spotify for playing Bel Biv Devoe directly after "Every Rose" as a palate cleanswer

lol Poison's disastrous blues-influenced 1993 album Native Tongue has a track titled "Richie's Acoustic Thang"

dude, can you smell the corpse?

i mean tbh i have no idea how your argument here squares with your old rant at me about how eminem's hooks are above criticism because people bought those records by the boatload, but i'm assuming there's an apple and orange somewhere

a hook, like the thing that inspires its name, catches people. a good hook catches lots of people. a bad one catches none. the only qualification for a good hook in my mind: is it catchy, memorable, does it draw people in. maybe I hate it ("I Gotta Feeling," say) but it's kind of past being called "a bad hook" I wonder if our disagreement on that didn't have to do with whether the lyrics in the hook were good or bad, but that's a different matter imo. The hook is largely hearing-and-head-nodding function, not a lyrical function. If we're talking about it as a lyrical aspect then I'd be talking about the chorus.

"Every Rose Has Its Thorn" is a pretty catchy hook!

lol I was just about to make that point