charcuterie

i can't believe this isn't already a thread! ilx prolly love all this yo! tell me yr likes dislikes places to procure it experiences making it whatever. if it's cured meat product then lets discuss it! here's a little article about it from the chicago reader

Man, I am ready for this trend to be OVER.

it's a trend to eat salami? c'mon jaymc!

eating bacon is a trend? fercrisesakes

smoked salmon is a trend?

i suppose but without these foods i would no longer want to live

http://www.thislittlepiggy.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/watermarked_thislilpiggy.jpg
this ddude makes it!

this ddude writes about books about making it

i can't believe this isn't already a thread! ilx prolly love all this yo!

uh...
"curing" meat: classic or dud?

I know ZS and I had a discussion about curing your own bacon (his dad does and we have done this). Also, I thought there was a photo thread of the country ham I cured for 18 months somewhere. Anyway, now I live across the street from Salumi, so I'm set. Though I did smuggle a nice hunk of guanciale home from Rome.

my dad cures his own bacon too

this is my favorite thing in the world btw

why, was it sick?

eating bacon is a trend? fercrisesakes

― Anton Levain (jdchurchill), Thursday, March 11, 2010 6:41 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

oh c'mon now this is just sock behavior

max, I think it was you and not ZS talking about the home-cured. lo siento.

apology accepted

eating bacon is a trend? fercrisesakes

― Anton Levain (jdchurchill), Thursday, March 11, 2010 6:41 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

oh c'mon now this is just sock behavior

― nitzer ebbebe (gbx), Thursday, March 11, 2010 8:07 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

sorry gbx i guess i just like to eat things that fall under this umbrella of 'charcuterie' and the fact that jaymc thinks it's a trend just got me all bent out of shape.
thankz fr the link shasta

Charcuterie, salumeria, etc., may or may not be a fad but it's been around for ages and won't go away anytime soon.

well, i think the dialogue between jd and jaymc is that maybe in chicago it might? then it's just back to naturals and kielbasa.

Yeah, it's definitely a trend here, dude.

See: The Bristol, The Purple Pig, Longman and Eagle, The Publican, Mado, Rootstock, etc.

http://chicago.metromix.com/restaurants/article/get-schooled-charcuterie/1476607/content

Obviously, cured meats in and of themselves have been around forever. But the idea of serving them on a "charcuterie plate" at a hip/upscale restaurant is a fairly new development in Chicago. I'm annoyed in part because I don't eat meat but mostly because it's become a boring thing for a new restaurant to do.

I like this kind of thing at restaurants because when I go out to eat I generally want to eat something that I won't invest the effort to do on my own. I'll gladly eat prosciutto or salami that you were willing to spend a year curing in your special facilities cause as much as I'd love to do that at home it's just not really going to happen.

It's been a trend here for a while, enough so that it's no longer so much of a trend as a part of the local culinary scene. A good charcuterie/salumeria plate, like a good cheese plate is a lovely thing and I love when people experiment and have French pate and Italian salami and Spanish ham and German wurst etc., in their selection. It's only boring if the selection is bad (and any of the countries that do this well have enough selection to make for a good plate) or if you don't care for meat or cured meat. Otherwise it's just a choice amongst others.

proper smoked meat is the domain of plastic tubs at truck stop checkout counters

in yr hearts u know I'm right

I would but I had my heart removed, smoked and cured. Quite tasty as I recall.

proper smoked meat is the domain of plastic tubs at truck stop checkout counters

in yr hearts u know I'm right

― the most sacred couple in Christendom (J0hn D.), Friday, March 12, 2010 3:15 PM (18 minutes ago)

yet another cuisine rooting from the ancient Incans. In quechua "chiarqui" = dried or singed meat.

"While charcuterie has been around for centuries and, as Levitt points out, "is the true food of the poor," it's been popping up everywhere from scene-y bars to high-end restaurants."

Charcuterie, incidentally, stems from words related to modern day French words 'chair' (meat, flesh) and 'cuite' (cooked).

yeah, maybe this is part of a bigger trend in general, namely "poor food". jaxon and i discussed this over lunch yesterday: short ribs, tilapia (usually pimped up as "chilean" or "[xxxxx] sea bass"), and "snout to tail" philosophy which in general are the most economical proteins are hard to miss on many menus in metro USA restaurants... but usually at no discount to the consumer!

it's as if the restaurateurs are scaling down food costs by using "exotic" (and yet often cheaper) proteins but keeping menu prices relatively equal to pre-recession levels.

This predates the recession, though. RNM has had a charcuterie plate for nigh on ten years and they're not French at all and lots of Italian places have had salumeria of one kind or another for ages.

MW, I was referring to "jerky" not "charcuterie" although they are slightly homophonic!

xp: i'm talking about places that are new to charcuterie/salumi obv, rather than the exceptions.

yea i was going to write about how prosciuto, capocola, much more expensive in the deli case than say genoa salami

also slim jim vs above thread stated jerky in plastic tub by check out at truck stop

there's this really funny thing about salami in this movie if you've seen it you know cant find it on youtubes

DO you know I like country ham? country ham country ham country ham country ham country ham

abbott: god bless you and yr love of country ham. thank you for linking to it.

in jaymc's link rob levitt mentions ciccioli. what he was talking about sounds like a messier version of rillettes which i think of as like a fattified version of pulled pork. i heard somebody say that rillettes are the place to start when thinking of or learning abt charcuterie, though i don't remember why.

now that i'm lookin at stuff for pate (which i guess is charcuterie) i have come across this concept of
forcemeat
i think i am going to start a new band and call it that

tho i guess rillettes can be made without pork

I made a bunch of chicken liver pate last summer, from Elizabeth David's Summer Cooking - it was great, though I cut back on her measure of liquor and probably didn't need too. (I thought it would make the end result too liquid.) I've got a bunch of beef liver I want to make up using Maker's Mark or some other high-end bourbon as the liquid, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

tho i guess rillettes can be made without pork

Hell yeah. Rabbit is good.

"Guilds would develop training programs for its members, thereby preserving the culinary arts. Charcuterie was the name of a guild that prepared and sold cooked items made from pigs. Through this organization, the preparation of hams, bacon, sausages, pate en croutes and terrines were preserved."

from here

From the Recipe Books of Antonin Careme

Les Petits Vol-Au-Vents a la Nesle
Brighton Pavilion and Chateau Rothschild

20 vol-au-vent cases, the diameter of a glass
20 cocks-combs
20 cocks-stones (testes)
10 lambs sweetbreads (thymus and pancreatic glands, washed in water for five hours, until the liquid runs clear)
10 small truffles, pared, chopped, boiled in consomme
20 tiny mushrooms
20 lobster tails
4 fine whole lambs' brains, boiled and chopped
1 French loaf
2 spoonfuls chicken jelly
2 spoonfuls veloute sauce
1 tablespoon chopped parsley
2 tablespoons chopped mushrooms
4 egg yolks
2 chickens, boned
2 calves' udders
2 pints cream
sauce Allemande
salt, nutmeg

Forcemeat:

Crumb a whole French loaf. Add two spoonfuls of poultry jelly, one of veloute, one tablespoon of chopped parsley, two of mushrooms, chopped. Boil and stir as it thickens to a ball. Add two egg yolks. Pound the flesh of two boned chickens through a sieve. Boil two calves' udders -- once cold, pound and pass through a sieve.

Then, mix six ounces of the breadcrumbs panada to ten ounces of the chicken meat, and ten of the calves' udders and combine and pound for 15 minutes. Add five drams of salt, some nutmeg and the yolks of two more eggs and a spoonful of cold veloute or bechamel. Pound for a further ten minutes. Test by poaching a ball in boiling water -- it should form soft, smooth balls.

Make some balls of poultry forcemeat in small coffee spoons, dip them in jelly broth and after draining on a napkin, place them regularly in the vol-au-vent, already half filled with:

a good ragout of cocks-combs and stones (testicles)
lambs' sweetbreads (thymus and pancreatic glands, washed in water for five hours, until the liquid runs clear)
truffles
mushrooms
lobster tails
four fine whole brains

Cover all with an extra thick sauce Allemande.

Gnam, gnam, gnam

what are y'all's thoughts on lardo. is that trendy in chicago?

Lardo is delicious. Try Lardo di Colonnata, especially.

From this week's Chicago Reader, in two separate places:

"House-made charcuterie is becoming the chicken breast of new restaurants."
--review of Revolution Brewing

"You can't throw a rock in a new Chicago restaurant without hitting a plate of artisanal charcuterie."
--article about the FamilyFarmed Expo

Btw, Steve, went to Bistro Central Parc last night. It was pretty good; best sweetbreads I've had in awhile.

chicken breasts are popular?

jaymc- you left out the part about how this 'new' snout-to-tail philosophy is going to save the world, dude.
the 'throwing rocks' line quoted above's entire blurb from chicago reader:

"Using the Whole Hog From trotters to head cheese, pigs are so hot these days that, as the Reader's Mike Sula remarked while moderating Saturday's panel on snout-to-tail cooking, you can't throw a rock in a new Chicago restaurant without hitting a plate of artisanal charcuterie. So I was pleasantly surprised that this discussion turned out not to be some bacon-crazed celebration of carnivorousness. Instead the panelists—chefs Rob Levitt (Mado) and Paul Kahan (Blackbird, Avec, the Publican), plus Ehran Ostrreicher of E & P Meats and Greg Gunthorp of Gunthorp Farms—were united in their conviction that whole-animal cooking can save the world.

"As long as we're going to eat animals, we should eat as much of them as we can," said Sula. "We should eat the skin, the bones, the weird bits, the blood. We do this not to horrify our vegetarian friends but because it's the right thing to do. It's the sustainable thing to do. And it's delicious."

Whole-animal cooking, the panel pointed out, is sustainability in action. "Everyone wants a pork tenderloin or a boneless, skinless chicken breast," said Gunthorp, who raises pastured pigs, chickens, and ducks in LaGrange, Indiana. "But you take a pig carcass that weighs 200 pounds and maybe three pounds of that is going to be tenderloin. So there's a huge percentage left over that a farmer like me needs to figure out how to deal with. It's not a sustainable process to just sell those three pounds of tenderloin."

At Mado, said Levitt, a 200-pound pig will last him a week and a half. And while he doesn't have the space to handle a whole cow, he can get a good deal on the leftovers. "I call up cattle farmers every week," he said, "and say, 'What do you have that nobody wants?' We get a lot of tongues, hearts, kidneys." The night before, he added, the restaurant sold more beef heart than chicken. For that to happen on a Friday (aka "amateur night") says something about the mainstreaming of offal.

The USDA and the city don't see things quite the same way, though, and at the end of the panel the good vibes gave way to controlled frustration with a health department that over the last few years has shut down restaurants' charcuterie programs and poured bleach over pounds upon pounds of house-made preserves.

"If the city wants to truly be green," said Kahan, with feeling, "they need to get on top of this." The sentiment was echoed by a crowd of nodding heads."

i bet kahan shed some salty ass tears when they poured bleach on his bacon jam, yo!

I don't think they're pouring bleach on Kahan's stuff, just the food made at my friend's shared-use kitchen.

Also, I didn't post those quotes from the Reader to denigrate charcuterie at all. I just wanted you to see that people think of it as a trend!

i agree with you that it is a trend, bro. but it's a good one. i am poor and i literally pick food out of the garbage when my gurl throws it away cuz it's 'expired' then i eat it all keep-it-like-a-secret
trying not to waste, ya know? i even munch the meat off the backbones i use for stock in an embarassing way

but whoa dude who do you know that they poured bleach on they bacon? that musta been some fist clenching shit
i prolly would've gone ape shit on that damn health inspector and would now be in jail with a bond i'd have no way in hell of payin

Al3x1s L3v3r3nz of K1tch3n Ch1cag0.

Read more here: http://leisureblogs.chicagotribune.com/thestew/2010/02/health-department-destroys-thousands-of-dollars-of-local-fruit.html

actually heard a coupla stories about this whole chicago hates shared kitchen spaces thing
and i was thinking about starting to use them! d'oh!

I love this trend. Bring me all the pork you can. One of the few things I miss about eastern NC is the massive amount of pig products we would have after our yearly hog killings. Fuck a Charcuterie plate, we'd have a whole damn table.

Also, I could care less about sustainability. Snout to tail is good because the pig has so many delicious parts. It's a wonderful animal.

xpost
damn that is some serious bullshit, yo
here is the line that sticks the most:
"If Lazar had been less transparent and left her cooler in her car during the inspection, she would probably be cooking today."

chicago: land of the dickhead authoritarian pieces of shit
and also some regular folks too

Also, I could care less about sustainability. Snout to tail is good because the pig has so many delicious parts. It's a wonderful animal.

― Jeff, Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:36 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

to eat

yes!

OFFALwebsite and blog

Offal Eating - C/D, S/D?

that thread is most interesting for it's unveiling of the hypocrisy of many meat eaters.

peeps are all over that chicken thigh picking the bones clean but as soon as it's a pig's head it's scary. c'mon!

the scariest part is raising the damn thing, the whole time knowing at some point you will eat it. and trying not to fall in love with the damn thing, amirite?

had incredible jamón serrano in Sevilla this weekend

are rillettes charcuterie? what about manteca? Anyway, in France rillettes de canard or d'oie are super common too (I think I prefer them but really they are all excellent).

pretty sure rillettes no matter what they are prepared from are charcuterie
manteca i am not sure, if it was pork fat then probably yes otherwise no se
congratulations on yr ham euler

Absolutely rillettes and manteca (lard) are considered charcuterie. From Ruhlman's 'Charcuterie':

"In the fifteenth century, charcutiers were not allowed to sell uncooked pork (though they could sell uncooked fat, which could be rendered into lard at home and used for cooking there)"

Sitting at home right now with a couple of just smoked ham shanks wondering if I should braise one to shred later for smoked ham hock rillettes. Hmm....

been totally obsessed with salame secchi lately

bresaola (air-dried beef) is the bomb.

going to barcelona in june and am so psyched to try jamon bellota

bresaola, barcelona, and jamon bellota should all be in a yuppie kid's jump rope rhyme

a year or two ago, philtwo (remember him? he used to post here) and I were coming back from a night out in Tokyo and were feeling like "just one more drink" and he knew this one afterhours-y place near his hotel.

we stroll in around 3:30-4:00 and the place is dark, darker than the streets, black velvet drapery on the walls. sporadic overhead spot lighting. a few discreet customers, quiet couples. two bartenders standing impossibly straight, hands folded behind their backs. between them, set on the bar, under full spotlit display is a full leg of Serrano ham, angled diagonally like a sundial, just beckoning us. 500 yen (~$6) per reasonable serving. i think we split two (three?) over a couple cocktails.

you make it seem so romantic...

(and it was!)

Lucky it wasn't Iberico...

anyway, serrano is good, but iberico/bellota/etc... mmmmmm

m coleman - me too actually. you gonna be there during sonar fest?

haha, memories or our romantic sojourns in Paris and Tokyo... ~sigh~

yeah, our sexual tension spans three continents

i think that Serrano ham imported into Japan may be similar quality to the Iberico that is imported to the US. No offense to the yanks, but Japanese food standards are just on a completely different level. They still won't import even USDA prime beef because it rates so low on their quality scale.

(xpost?)

MELT IN MY MOUTH LIKE THE FATTY BITS OF A SLICE OF JAMON BELLOTA

i think its more the producers in spain who label it serrano/iberico/bellota/patanegra, etc, no?

Iberico has to be made with 75% native pig. Serrano is mostly made with Landrace pigs.

Bellota is Iberico from pigs raised mostly on acorns.

okay haha after 30 minutes of diligent research phil and i finally figured out where this place is:

「セプ ドール」
Bar Cep D'Or
日本, 〒150-0043 東京都渋谷区道玄坂１丁目６−３
http://bit.ly/cmd1yn

HP: http://ana.jp-anex.co.jp/gourmet/shousai.php?code=41952

here's a pic of the ham:
http://ana.jp-anex.co.jp/gourmet/shop/photo.php?code=41952&id=2

the bar is named after a fine champagne cognac iirc?

phil wins the grand prize for his domination of google street view international.

i should have been a librarian

or a globe trotting tour guide.

oh wait...

the bar is named after a fine champagne cognac iirc?

Cep d'or is indeed a cognac but 'cep' just means vine stock, really, so 'golden vine' is also an award.

Where in Tokyo is that place?

its right behind the shibuya station and the shibuya excel.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=shibuya+station&sll=40.714266,-73.955339&sspn=0.017874,0.018604&ie=UTF8&hq=shibuya+station&hnear=&radius=15000&layer=c&cbll=35.657992,139.699266&panoid=6xG3SFmvXOMDa7l0rLn2cA&cbp=12,169.97,,0,1.72&ll=35.657941,139.699354&spn=0,359.997675&z=19

MWhite, click on the bitly for the g-loc. (xpost)

Ah, that makes sense. God, it's been ages since I've been in Tokyo. I miss Yoyogi Koen on a weekend in spring.

i miss the strong dollar/weak yen... T_T

When I was modeling there I always wanted the Yen to be strong.

My agency was in Harajuku and I used to 'get away' sometimes and walk through Meiji Jingu-Mae. I always felt lucky my agency was so close to a park and the subway.

you gonna be there during sonar fest?

will be in barcelona the week of, but we're doing an overnite up the coast on the 17th and returning to US on the 19th. sonar looks like a cool gig tho.

phil-2 have u driven a car in spain?

where are you overnighting at?

[tbh kinda loving a food thread spinning wildly out of tangent, unlike other threads that always converge on food themes for long lengths imo]

^^
yea and it's annoying me shasta
back to the charcuterie ya hams!

how 'bout this:
i cut up a chicken yesterday and usually i just throw the skin away cuz everybody's always saying how the skin is bad for you but for some reason i saved it this week. what the hell do ya do with chicken skin? should i try to make cracklins?
i guess this isn't exactly charcuterie, but this is: http://ilovefood.fronza.net/?cat=41

I'm pretty sure only in america do we think that animal skin (fish, chicken, pig) is bad for you.

the skin is an important part of chicken stock.

I want a drying fridge.

The last time I had a whole hog butchered, I cured 1/2 the belly as bacon and roasted the other half - cut the skin in 1/2" strips with a sharp paring knife, rubbed with thyme and black pepper, slow roasted until the skin crisped totally up and the meat was just about fall-apart.

I have 3 or 4 whole jowls in my freezer - thinking about trying for guanciale.

jaq this is a no-brainer. you should really do this and put lots of pictures

shasta-
i think in america it's basicly fat=bad
and skin has alot of fat, which most people skim off of they stocks so i am not sure how important it is to chicken stock
this ddude let's 'em know

you skim off the fat but surely the skin still flavors the stock?

flavors and adds texture - like cartlidge, the collagen/gelatin in the skin adds so much body

thinking about trying for guanciale.

Yes!!!

cartlidge, the collagen/gelatin

That's why the feet are awesome for stock.

oh yeah, I make pork stock from roasted neck bones and trotters and it's completely amazing. I hadn't thought about using chicken feet though - will do for the next big batch now.

Here's the photo set from the dry aged ham I did - not 100% in order and two different kitchens: http://www.flickr.com/photos/illiterati/sets/72157600215964848/

Wow. I have a smoked dry-cured ham aging right now. I had planned on letting it age for a couple of months. Do I really need to go 18 months though?

nope, it depends on the weight, which I didn't realize at the time. 18 months for that little ham was probably 9 months too long. Still tasted AMAZING, but was seriously dried out and difficult to cut.

OK DUDES I ORDERED THAT RUHLMAN CHARCUTERIE BOOK FROM AMAZON
LOOK OUT

Better start stocking up on Lipitor.

i just wanna have a bad-ass heart attack

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/he176w.htm

http://www.sausagemania.com/tutorial.html

hey JAQ did you make guanciale? also would you plz describe the process of 'having a whole hog butchered' for those of us who aren't doing that sort of thing yet?

in chicago i found this place, peoria packing co. that i plan to utilize:
http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=23813

btw first recipe in ruhlman/polcyn's charcuterie book: bacon

re: guanciale - I'm waiting until we move to a house (in a few months) before I start any meat projects. I've got my eye on a cold smoker and a meat-aging refrigerator for the new space.

describe the process of 'having a whole hog butchered'

Start by going to Eat Wild and finding a local farmer who raises the livestock, usually during the winter. Get in touch, and find out if they can raise one for you and how much $ you need to send. Usually it's under $200 and covers the cost of the animal and its feed and care until butchering. Most farmers have a local butcher they use and can generally quote your final costs in the amount per pound of "hanging weight", so you can have a rough idea of how much you'll need to come up with in Oct/Nov. If the farm's close enough, I try to go visit a few times - the people who've raised pigs for us have also done fruits and vegetables so I'd pick up 50 lbs of tomatoes to process or whatever was in season.

When your animal is at a marketable weight and it's butchering time, you might have the option of being there. Our farmers have used a mobile abbatoir that comes to the animal, rather than hauling the animals to the butcher (which greatly adds to their stress). The carcass has to hang and cool for a certain amount of time before it is cut, wrapped, and frozen. If you're right there, you might be able to bring home a certain amount of fresh meat. If you want bacon, hams, or hocks smoked, that adds time to the final processing and to the cost. But generally within two weeks of butchering, you go pick up all your meat and whatever other bits you specified you wanted (fat/trotters/ears/tail/liver/etc).

Another option is to go your county or state fair and bid on the 4-H livestock. You can usually get set up with a hauler and butcher at the auction by asking around.

There's another thread here somewhere where I spell out how many grocery bags of meat you get from various animals. A whole hog is about the same as a side of beef - 8 to 10 grocery bags I think, plus a tall kitchen bag (13 gallons?) of trimmed fat.

This one: Buying meat in bulk

Speaking of cold smoker I've had some great success with a soldering iron, an empty tin can and smoking pellets. I cold smoked the ham I mentioned upthread, scallops and mozzarella.

Obviously if you have your eye on a real cold smoker a soldering iron might seem a little dinky, but I was very pleased with the results.

I had some fair success converting our gas grill into a hot smoker at one point. The soldering iron idea would be perfect for a cold smoker - what did you use for the big container/racks?

I have a charoal hot smoker that I used. I set the tin can with the soldering iron onto the lowest rack. If I was smoking more food I probably would have removed the water pan and placed the can at the bottom where the charocal would go.

If you do place the can on the lowest rack be careful about what you place over the can on the upper rack. That soldering iron can still put off some heat.

yo rm- could you plz supply more details of this soldering iron smoker thing?

is like this?

Close to that. There are other links that I found but basically you take a tin can and open it about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way. Punch a hole for the soldering iron near the lip of the can in the middle of the remaining part of the lid that has not been opened. Then fill the can with pellets and insert the soldering iron through the hole in the can.

Here's a tutorial on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sivMMDnUEpc

they do not mention this technique in the charcuterie book by ruhlman and polcyn . . . .

but nonetheless i plan to utilize it

homespun! homeskillet. hometown. u my homey n shit

They probably don't mention it in Charcuterie because the Bradley smoker they recommend has a cold smoker attachment. While I would love to get a Bradley (and may do so one day) this method works very well.

so any of y'alls ever make a chicken gallantine? i think i might try that as my first foray into charcuterie

Haha. Really? First foray?

Seriously, if chicken galantine is your first foray into charcuterie and you pull it off, I am going to lobby for an "I Love Stone Soup" board because that is where I will belong.

How did your bacon go btw?

i haven't sourced pork bellies as of yet. but i can find chickens, yo
also payday is right around the corner
plus it's not like i'm going from working to master kraft mac n cheese to attempting fermented sausages here dude
i can do some culinary wizardry methinks
actually i was thinking tasso ham might be a good first curing project cuz it's less meat, right?

i dunno righteousmaelstrom, you seem incredulous. have you made the galantine and it's like too many pitfalls impossible?
it just seems like less equipment and ingredients i might already have, ya know? i dunno i still have to get a meat grinder

also have any of yunz ever spit roasted a whole pig? please provide details

I think I'd want some spare chickens to practice on, to make sure I got the "remove skin in one relatively neat piece" down. Otherwise, sounds like a labor-intensive but tasty project.

Nah, not saying you don't have the skills to pull off chicken galantine, jdchurchill. I've never made galantine. Just saying if you can do it then I suppose I am underestimating your skills and for that I do apologize.

Not certain where you live though where you can't get pork bellies easily. I guess I am spoiled. I live in Portland -- I used to live very close to an Asian supermart where you could literally get anything off of a pig -- snout to bungs and everything in between. It is there.

Tasso ham is hella easy. I remember the Ruhlman recipe being kind of heavy on cloves though. I'm not a big fan of cloves so I think I used less than called for and compensated with other spices

thanks for the tip about cloves i am not a hueg fan either. i have found a place where they is rumor to have the bellies, but i aint walked in there yet. see upthread: peoria packing co. link to some other forum

Pork belly is also called side pork. You might see it by that name, though it's usually sliced. Asian markets are excellent places to get all the pig parts you might need, but also Hispanic carnicerias can be good.

is pork belly really that hard to find in the usa? any butcher over here has it

it all gets turned into bacon in the usa iirc

its very easy to find in SF/NYC and MS ime. not sure about elsewhere tbh.

yo i got a duck who has made duck confit? will i get enough fat from cutting up the duck? gimme some tips y'all plz

I usually use the fat from 2-3 carcasses (reserve the legs, cook the breasts separately, flay the carcass and render all the fat from the skin) to confit just the legs.

you got a duck who has made duck confit??

you will definitely need extra fat tho

If you can't get enough fat off of the one or don't want to get more carcasses for fat, you can use lard (good quality though) or olive oil for the confit.

goose fat is the best iirc

sorry s1ocki i guess i should've made that first sentence into 2, cuz i have no idea if this duck had made duck confit before. i never had a chance to ask it.

so i will cut this thing up sometime this week and see how much fat i can get. amirite, Jaq, that you are suggesting to use all the trimmin skin bits and render them into fat? should i skin the leg/thigh? i guess i should try that duck breast ham with those or does someone have a nice tried and true method for using the duck breasts? this is my first duck, dudes.

righteousmaelstrom (here on i'm calling you RM) what brand of lard is good quality? this is totally gonna scare my gurl: me walking in with some lard, yo. what about bacon drippings? i have some of those, but they will probz give it a bacony flavor which might fite with the duck flavor, huh?

nah, don't skin the parts you are going to confit. But yeah, there's a thick layer of fat under the entire skin of a duck. I usually remove the breasts (w/skin and fat), use a sharp pointy knife to poke holes through all the skin (so the fat can render out more easily, then steam them skin down for 10 min. After steaming (which releases some of the fat), slap them skin-side down in a hot skillet to brown and crisp for just long enough - I like the meat on the rare side.

I render my own lard b/c most you can buy has been shelf-stabilized and has preservatives. I think the flavor of the lard could compete too much with the flavor of the duck fat, but that's me. I'd use a more neutral oil, or just buy some of this: http://www.dartagnan.com/51181/565789/Pantry-Goods/Duck-Fat.html?wt.srch=1&gclid=CL_IpNy53KECFSBaiAodKQJY0A

And here is another duck thread with some tasty ideas: Duck advice

I would stay away from the lard you can find in the baking section or in the Hispanic grocery section. The lard may have been rendered from other parts of the pig besides backfat or around the kidneys (leaf lard). Also, there may be other ingredients and the lard may have been partially hydrogentated to make it more shelf stable. I would stay away from bacon drippings too as you will likely wind up with bacon-flavored confit.

You could render your own however. In some Hispanic grocery stores, you can purchase back fat and render it yourself (Although this will probably also scare your girl). I did it for rillettes once. Kind of a pain in the butt since I did it on the stovetop, but thinking about it now I'm wondering why it couldn't be done in a low temp overn.

xpost

There is nothing better than duck fat fries with crispy sage crumbled on top.

did i ever tell u guys about the duck-fat-fried pancakes/beignets i ate recently, all covered with maple syrup?

My god that sounds incredibly, decadently, good. Restaurant, or home cooked?

restaurant, at the au pied de cochon sugar shack. i linked a thing about i did a little while ago... can repost if you like, but for now, here's a pic:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l14zhf32PP1qav9v0.jpg

I read that when you posted it before and had a heart attack, like sympathetic labor pains but better.

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4991&hilit=duck+confit

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/grinding-meat.htm

can't believe i hadn't linked that yet. probz gonna git me the #10 sometime soon. or does somebody have suggestions on the meat grinder that i should buy. it looks like the #10 here comes with the sausage stuffer tubes; bonus if those things really work. the link above goes on about using knives to cut the meat and stuffing the casings with yr thumbs like in olden times . . . not sure i wanna do that tho

I've used a #10 manual grinder and it is a hell of a lot of hard labor. If you're going to chop meat with knives, get some weighty cleavers and semi-freeze the meat. But that's also a shit-ton of work. I've got a meat grinder attachment for my Kitchenaid, and it works great for small amounts (up to about 10 lbs of raw or semi-frozen meat/fat). Have to stop and let it cool down for a few hours, but also clean all the sinews out of the blade assembly at the same time, so that's okay.

yea my mixer is not a kitchenaid (general slicing?) but it does have a thingy in the front that might run one of those grinder dealys i should check into it. i assumed making sausage was going to be lots of work, and seeing as how the #10 is only like $35 i think it'll have to do for the first couple batches.

Just be aware that whatever table or counter you clamp that manual grinder to is going to get messed up by the amount of force you are going to have to use. It also helps to put the grinder in the freezer so it is as cold as possible when you start (also have the meat very cold) - the friction causes things to heat up, which makes the meat mushy as well as can cause the metal parts to expand and have some interference. It can also help to have a cheater bar, a pipe about 2 feet long that fits tightly over the wooden handle on the crank, so you can use both hands to get more of your weight behind it.

btw, thingy on the front aka pto (power take-off)

yea the pto is the thingy fr shizy. is that a universal fitting for the kitchenaid attachments? i am suspicious that it is . . . however knowing capitalism i wouldn't be surprised if it isn't.

Don't know if it's any kind of standard - I seriously doubt it. On a KA, the pto accepts a collared shaft that's about 3/8" square and maybe 1" deep with a 1/2" collar depth. There's a set screw at 9 o'clock as you're facing the front that secures the collar (and therefore the accessory whether grinder or juicer or pasta roller) to the body of the mixer.

oops, set screw is @ 3 o'clock, had to go look at an analog clock face.

so i cut up the duck last night and was a little surprised at the differences in the anatomy of it vs a chicken. the popes nose is friggin hueg, and the wings are so long compared to a chicken. also the meat is so red! i think i will turn the breasts into duck prosciuto and hopefully render enough fat to confit the leg quarters; my guess is i have a scant 2 lbs, or roughly 1/3 of a gallon ziptop bag. i guess if i don't have enough i will get another duck and then do the confit, but i will likely wait until they are on sale. the one i got was $3/lb which aint the best of deals. it was king cole brand (from ontario) and didn't say what breed of duck it was nor can i find anything about it on they website. oh well, i guess i can nerd it up on the duck breeds with the next attempt. but i got almost a full gallon ziptop bag of bones and was wondering how any of y'alls make DUCK SOUP?
http://www.evl.uic.edu/pape/Marx/films/posters/DuckSoup_small.jpg

Probably a Pekin duck, most sold commercially in the US are.

I usually make stock with the bones the same way I make chicken stock (carrots, celery, peppercorns, etc) and use it to make risotto or couscous.

Duck legs are attached so differently (odd angle, so much further back) than a chicken's too - for the paddling, I guess. Geese are built the same. Also, that keel bone vs. rib cage arrangement.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3077/3135505469_c4af295c98.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3211/3135505335_d324c2e1e1.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/3136327890_dc7b2cdf7c.jpg

this is a duck i bought a couple of years ago.

it had been pretty much raised only maple syrup.

i actually bought it for the foie gras, but the duck came too.

confit-ed the legs, and roasted the carcass. we put it on a bed of root vegetables and even though we hadn't added anything, the rendered maple-y fat made them unbelievably sweet, seriously tasted like they'd been candied.

that duck is like the will ferrell elf character then, eh? is that like nutritionally balanced to feed yr ducks only maple syrup? diabolical from a taste perspective i'm sure tho

ya it's a foie gras "thing"

it might be mixed with grain or something

I can imagine how wonderful the fat from that duck was. One of the pigs we had raised was finished with free grazing on acorns and apples, and the flavor of the meat and fat was just so good.

also if i don't get enough duck fat what do you guys think abt supplementing it with shmalz? or will that make it taste too chickeny?

I used olive oil, myself.

And I just remembered that most of the confit, encased in fat, has been in my fridge for about 18 months. I wonder if they're still good?

Probably. Cook it to 176 F for 30 min (or use it in a long-cooked cassoulet) if you're worried about botulism toxin.

also if i don't get enough duck fat what do you guys think abt supplementing it with shmalz? or will that make it taste too chickeny?

― a fool committed to a VISION of SOMETHING NO ONE ELSE UNDERSTANDS (jdchurchill), Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:54 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

goooooooose fat

yeah go for the goose fat!

btw love how this thread is for all anti-nutrition nazis

i dunno how anti-nutrition we are dude. i think the whole fat=bad is some amurkin suprastitionisms. i was reading this where they mention the weston a price foundation for wise traditions in food, farming, and the healing arts who extol the virtues of *gasp* eating animal fats!

bad news dudes :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8688104.stm

(sorry if this was linked before)

A Harvard University team which looked at studies involving over one million people found just 50g of processed meat a day also raised the risk of diabetes.

But there was no such risk from eating even twice as much unprocessed meat, such as beef, lamb or pork.

This was despite the fact the two forms of meat have a similar fat content.

I was just going to post this. It would be interesting to see if there was any difference between the Oscar Mayer processed crap that people eat and "artisanal" or homemade charcuterie. I know I make my own bacon, sausages, etc. because I like to know what is in my food. Also I find most all mass-produced processed meats to be way too salty. And I like salt!

"defined as any meat preserved by smoking, curing or salting and includes bacon, sausages, salami and other luncheon meats.

Salt can increase blood pressure in some people, a key risk factor for heart disease.

In animal experiments, nitrate preservatives can promote atherosclerosis and reduce glucose tolerance, which can in turn lead to heart problems and diabetes. "

Can we get a mod to retitle this "Charcuterie: The Anti-Nutrition Nazi Thread"? Thx.

i don't have time to deconstruct this snippet of pop science from bbc news perpetuating the myth that fat is bad for you, but i would like to see what brands of sausages/bacon they were eating. also this sentence says it all (correlation does not equal causation, bitches!) "Although cause-and-effect cannot be proven by these types of long-term observational studies, all of these studies adjusted for other risk factors," said Renata Micha, lead author.

basicly she's saying 'we shouldn't draw conclusions from this, but we're drawing conclusions from this.'

Dude the main takeaway here is that fat is NOT bad for you, at least when comparing cured meats with, say, steaks.

"there was no such risk from eating even twice as much unprocessed meat, such as beef, lamb or pork.
This was despite the fact the two forms of meat have a similar fat content."

Though the study looked at people who were eating the equiv of a sausage a DAY so I don't know if it's worth gettin too stray-assed over anyway

Sorry - buzz harsh over!

The fact there was no specific or controlled study, but only conclusions drawn from looking at the results of 20 studies not overseen by the researchers, leads me to discount this. I'm surprised they forgot the part about nitrates causing cancer.

The fact there was no specific or controlled study, but only conclusions drawn from looking at the results of 20 studies not overseen by the researchers, leads me to discount this.

Really? Why would the Harvard Institute of Public Health use such a clearly bum methodology??

ok whatever, tracer hand did you put up that muffin recipe you raved about april 7 yet? would you please add that to the muffin thread?

Here's the direct release: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2010-releases/processed-meats-unprocessed-heart-disease-diabetes.html

They started with 1,600 studies and narrowed it down to 20 they felt were pertinent.

They want to influence the US government dietary guidelines, which are up for review. It would interesting to know where the researchers grants come from.

yea this is what happens they cherry pick the studies which themselves are merely correlative and tailor the information so that it fits their paradigm. i do this too btw except my paradigm is sausages + beer and as you might guess the studies start off neatish and then end up with grease spots and indecipherable writing.

that muffin recipe you raved about april 7

Dude... I have completely forgotten what this even was.

i just made some almond muffins last week that were fucking BOMBBBBBB - they had fig paste inside

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, April 7, 2010 5:37 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark

ok so i put all the skin and what not in my crock pot friday-sunday and was a little disappointed by how much fat i got. not enough to cover both ducklegs, however i was thinking it might work if i confit one at a time. i did end up with a handful of the most delicious scraps of stuff tho. also i put the duck breasts in a bunch of salt so as to make duck prosciutto.

Could you put both legs in a canning jar thick end down and cover them with the fat that way? The jar would stand up to the low heat you want for making confit and give you a small volume to fill vs. a flat dish.

hmmm i dunno if they would both fit in the jars i have. i guess they are quart or whatever 32 oz. this type of idea might find use for me tho

You might be surprised how much will fit in one of those. I got a dozen hard-boiled eggs in a quart jar when I was pickling.

It does help if the jar is the wide mouth kind, not the narrow one.

i have wide mouths exclusively now cuz of the extra utility

Lunch today: duck confit sandwich with cranberry jam and sliced cabbage on a banh mi roll.

http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/T/TA/TAK/TAKENBYSURPRISE/1243668321_7518_full.gif

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd210/jdchurchil/food%20porn/DSC_0223.jpg?t=1275400649
this is how the duck legs look now. do y'all think that's too much in the water phase?

Yes. Did you end up cooking them in the jar? If so, the big difference would be so much less surface area for the water to escape while cooking. I didn't think that through. I'll bet it's delicious still - you should just use within a week or so.

damnit.

this duck 'confit' was kinda salty and i was thinking it's cuz it cooked in the super reduced duck stock, the pink lower portion in the jar pictured above. when i took the legs out of the jar, it was like demi glas or whatever is a step reduced beyond that: like jello. also now it's all mixed in with my fat so should i just do my best to scrape out the fat from the jello or try to cook it off on low heat? or both

also ate some of my duck prosciuto last night. i need to figure out a way to slice it super thin so if anyone has a tip on that hook it up yo

i was part of an SF charcuterie/salumi tasting mission yesterday evening where we tackled three of the better gran selections available.

Rillettes de Lapin was the clear winner for the best dish we had. I'd be interested in trying this at home.

yeah i've been thinking of making rillettes as well... doesnt seem like it would be that hard?

Lunch today: duck confit sandwich with cranberry jam and sliced cabbage on a banh mi roll.

― righteousmaelstrom, Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:43 PM (1 week ago)

haha you mean "a baguette"?

a way to slice it super thin

One way is to partially freeze it, but that might change the texture a lot.

How are you going to use the confit? Mine's usually pretty salty due to the cure prior to cooking. But I usually just make cassoulet or risotto, so the salt's no problem. That geleè duck stock would be great in either, too.

haha you mean "a baguette"?

― _▂▅▇█▓▒░◕‿‿◕░▒▓█▇▅▂_ (Steve Shasta), Friday, June 4, 2010 4:59 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

most banh mis are on rolls that are baguette-like but a bit more spongy iirc

Banh mi baguettes usually have some rice flour added so they're not as dense as regular ones.

not gonna lie, i didn't know that.

this coming from a dude who ate close to 60 banh mi all over VN!

local shops here in SF use regular* baguettes...

*american style baguettes...

had a killer pork rillettes sandwich for lunch today

speaking of duck fat I ate a can of beans earlier this week that consisted of just white beans in goose fat:and this was just a generic store brand! I love this country (France) so much.

rillettes is a helluva lot like pulled pork, dudes if that opens up yr recipe frontiers. in a little bit when i get home i will post the recipe from charcuterie book

i guess i could freeze one a little and see if that helps. but when i cut them last night i was hasty and drunk so it might go differently were that not the case

oh and i ate the confit with a salad. my gurl dint like it so i ate her scraps straight up

I had cured duck breast at Taste a few weeks ago - it was cut fairly thick (1/8" maybe, def not paper thin) and they had seared the skin side briefly. Really good.

So I've made this a couple of times and it's cheap, easy as hell and so unbelievably good:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/dining/161prex.html

I had some in the freezer and broke it out when a friend was here last weekend. Holds up pretty well frozen but not as good as fresh.

classic pork rillettes (from p267 of ruhlman and polcyn)
1 lg leek
1 sm bunch of thyme
3 bay leaves
1 celery stalk
8 black peppercorns
1 md onion studded w 5 cloves
3 lbs very fatty pork butt cut into 1" dice
kosh
2 qt white veal stock or water
freshly ground black pepper to taste
abt 8 oz rendered pork fat
some cheesecloth
1. split the leek lengthwise in half stopping abt 1" from root end and wash it well. lay the thyme and bay leaves inside the leek, lay the celerystalk next to it and tie it up with string (an aromatic bundle called a bouquet garni)
2. crack the peprcorns and tie it in cheesecloth
3. preheat oven to 300F/150C
4. put pork in 6 qt pot and cover with water by 2", bring to boil, the drain and rinse w cold water (a way to quickly eliminate blood and impurities) return pork to clean pot and add leek bundle, peppercorn thing, and onion and 1 tbsp kosh, and the stock bring to simmer cover and put in oven 4-6 hrs or the meat is falling apart tender
5. remove the pork to cool, strain liquid set aside
6. pork goes into the stand mixer with paddle on low slowly adding strained cooking liquid until the meat shreds thoroughly and takes on a moist spreadable texture, abt 1 or 2 min. taste: salt and pepper as necessary (remember this will be served at room temp so it should be seasoned assertively)
7. spoon meat into ramekins or crocks, fridge until chilled the pour abt 1/8" rendered fat on top to seal them ramekins. return to fridge for up to 2 wks
8. remove rillettes at least 2 hr before serving, cuz they best and easiest to serve at room temp

addendum: veal stock
8 lbs veal bones cut into 7.5 cm lengths (have butcher do this, yo)
1 c fine dice onion
1/2 c fine dice celery
1/2 c fine dice leek, white part only
2 bay leaves
2 tsp black peppercorns
1 bunch thyme
6 qt water

1. bones in a pot taller than it is wide cover with water and boil. drain and rinse
2. back in pot and add remaining ingredients. water should cover by 1" bring to boil skimming the stock frequently then reduce heat to lowest possible. skim the stock and simmer for 6-8 hrs or overnight
3. strain and let cool then fridge or freeze

whew! good on y'alls that do it

oh i'm thinking of doing rabbit (see "rillettes de lapin" upthread). have the Robuchon recipe. it's dope.

duck prosciuto
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd210/jdchurchil/food%20porn/DSC_0223-1.jpg?t=1275744194

speaking of duck fat I ate a can of beans earlier this week that consisted of just white beans in goose fat:and this was just a generic store brand! I love this country (France) so much.

― Euler, Friday, June 4, 2010 6:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

canned food in france = revelation

actually, pretty much everything in supermarkets there = revelation

even the cheapest store brand stuff is like miles ahead of n america

going to barcelona in june and am so psyched to try jamon bellota

good stuff. in fact the food (and wine) in spain is amazing & the prices seemed relatively cheap (especially compared to NYC). my son would now like to subsist on jamon y pan con tomat. don't recommend eating tapas twice a day, though.

this place was SO awesome: Cervecería Catalana Restaurant Carrer de Mallorca, 236 Barcelona

jokers joggin 'round spain makin me mad jealous, yo

had some bellota over the holidays, had memories of phil-two in paris and tokyo~~~~

wow 1st i googled bellota and found it was a spider, or the best kind of jamon iberico cuz a bellota is an acorn in spanish
and them pigs eat alot of them.

did it taste of acorns steve shasta?

ok i am finally getting around to actually making this stuff. just doing sausages right now like mick jagerwurst

I saw this recipe and thought of you guys.

hey dudes i made motherfockin headcheese!
srsly if any of u chi town ilxers want some i will bike deliver it to you cuz i made way too much!

Wow, thats amazing :)

my ex has italian family on farmland in WA who make all manner of whatever the italian word is for chacuterie. His zio makes an amazing, dense and dark pork sausage that is deadly spicy, and once or twice a year he vacuum-packs up a link or 3 and mails it to R. Dried, intense pork salami. I cant eat it, its just way way too hot for my palate but I am so impressed by the work that goes into it - they dont grow their own pigs but they work from a full pig carcass and make sausage and meats from it every year.

perhaps you should suggest that the put a little less spice in there? then you could eat it too!

Nah they're sicilian, thats heresy that is ;P

i don't know any sicilians but i just thought wtf it can't hurt, right? i mean it's a suggestion so they can ignore it if they choose

Oh i just mean sicilian food has soooo much chili in it. Heh tbh I dont like pork anyway :)