Thompson: Unpacking the Draymond Green-Kevin Durant rift and what the fall out could mean long term
By Marcus Thompson II Nov 13, 2018 162 The future might point back to this moment as the end. A random November game at Staples Center, against a Clippers team that history wouldn’t otherwise remember, was the opening salvo in the destruction of a dynasty.
Who gets the blame depends on who you ask.
Some will blame Draymond Green for unleashing a tirade on Kevin Durant, one so personal and biting things could never be the same afterward.
Some will point to Durant, who repeatedly dangled free agency over the heads of his teammates and tested the patience of his peers, several of whom suspect he’s leaving at the end of the season.
Perhaps the lion’s share should go to general manager Bob Myers and coach Steve Kerr, who escalated the stakes by suspending Green for a game without pay, costing him $120,000 but most importantly morphing an in-house feud into a public rebuke of Green and open support of Durant.
The irony. In the end, it may not be the Houston Rockets or the Boston Celtics to dethrone the Warriors. What if it’s failing organs and internal bleeding that lead to the end of the Dubs dominance? What if one of the greatest teams in NBA history was broken apart by a front-office attempt at appeasement?
By now, everyone knows how this all started. I talked to multiple sources — in the locker room, the front office and to adjacent parties — to find out what happened and what happens next. The drama didn’t begin until the end of regulation against the Clippers on Monday. That’s when Durant barked at Green for not getting him the ball in the final seconds. The two-time Finals MVP pounded the chair in frustration as he chided the team’s leading assist man.
Green took exception to how Durant addressed him. The exact dialogue couldn’t be recounted as it was said, but it began with Green immediately firing back.
Who the fuck you talking to?
According to multiple sources, Green then went on to make it clear he’s been making plays for years. He reminded Durant the Warriors were winning before Durant showed up so he wouldn’t stand for Durant talking to him as if he were a scrub. Green accused Durant of making the whole season about him even though he was going to leave after this season. Green let out his frustrations about how Durant has handled free agency — keeping his options open and keeping the story alive, consuming the Warriors and their season with talk of what Durant will do next.
That’s the mild version. The original version included Green calling Durant a “bitch” several times — disrespect that management said was too harsh to overlook.
Tuesday morning, Myers and Kerr met with Green and told him they were suspending him for a game. They acknowledged his propensity to live on the edge but said he crossed over this time. They had to punish him and they had to do it this way.
Green was surprised by the heavy-handedness. A fine was expected. Green had just come back from injury, giving him a rest day for Tuesday’s game against Atlanta and a private fine would have been an acceptable rebuke of his behavior. He was fined a few thousand dollars when he went after Kerr in the locker room in Oklahoma City in 2016. He didn’t think this incident was nearly as bad, so the punishment being drastically worse was shocking.
Why didn’t they just fine him privately as they have before?
“If we thought that was the right thing to do,” one front office executive said, “we would have. We have to do what we think is right.”
The issue isn’t the money but the message the punishment sends.
Durant’s free agency has been a low-key issue with the players. It registered as a small irritation. The burden of talking about it, reading about it, hearing about it, grew heavier in Year 3 of the Durant Experience. Players like Green and Klay Thompson, who also have free agency pending, have been lumped into the frenzy. Both have declared they want to stay with the Warriors. But because of Durant’s uncertainty, the future of the dynasty is in the air and such leads to speculation Green and Thompson have to address.
According to several in the locker room, Durant could have ended this by just saying how much he loves playing with the Warriors and his teammates and leave it at that, even if he departs in the offseason. They are all prepared for him to leave so they just want the cloud hanging over them to go away. Another option would be to reject all questions about free agency and force the media to focus on this season, a way of protecting his teammates.
Durant has said he doesn’t want to lead anybody on. But Green is part of a contingent that believes Durant has a hand in creating the hype about his free agency, a tangential focus that detracts from their mission of winning a third straight title.
Myers and Kerr were made aware of Green’s concerns in their meeting. Green also shared them with Stephen Curry, who visited Green’s house before Tuesday’s game to get Green’s side — Curry’s efforts to repair the situation.
The general consensus: Green was wrong for going so hard at Durant instead of having a hard-but-civil conversation, and Green was wrong for when he decided to address this situation — in the middle of a game they were trying to win. Green admitted as much to Curry and several believe he would have (and still will) cop to that. But the general consensus also is that Green’s concerns about how Durant has handled free agency weren’t off base.
Durant’s teammates have made it clear privately they aren’t on board for another Please-Stay-KD tour. And Durant has said he doesn’t want to be recruited. But the decision to suspend Green publicly seems to be a signal from management that they do care about recruiting Durant.
Management is holding fast to its stance that Green crossed a line that can’t be crossed. Some say it’s just “Draymond being Draymond.” At least two said he did go too far, attacking his teammate personally. One player was even concerned that Green may have lost his authority in the locker room, the berating was so over-the-top.
“With what was said, there is already no way Durant is coming back,” one player said. “The only hope is that they can say this summer, ‘See, KD. We’ve got your back. We protected you from Draymond.’ ”
Of course, Green now has to be wondering who is protecting him. He is the one committed to the Warriors and who has given everything. He is the one who has declared he wants to stay with the Warriors. He was one of the founders of this dynasty and he built it with the same fire that scolded Durant on Monday. And they know who he is. They know it’s only a matter of time before he owns up and makes amends. Why was this time so unbearable? Why was this offense the final straw?
If Green loses out in the power struggle with Durant, who can win outside of Curry?
It’s hard not to wonder how Green and Kerr, who have such a volatile history of love and hate, get through this. It must be measured how deep the crack is in Green’s allegiance to the Warriors now that Myers, who with Curry is Green’s biggest supporter in the franchise, has signed off on this stance.
Is this a referendum on Green? If so, did they just lose him — if not physically yet, spiritually? Did they just signal to him he’s the All-Star they are willing to part with, and does that quench his fire for the Warriors?
What if Durant decides to leave in free agency and Green wants out? Do the Warriors make a trade to head off that potential outcome?
Divides have been created that now must be repaired. The relationship between Green and Durant is rubble and needs to be rebuilt. The relationship between Green and management seems to be similarly in shambles, but it has been before and perhaps can be spared again. Then there is the relationship between the Warriors and Durant, who is probably sour on the whole Warriors experience now, and how that impacts the rest of the season.
This isn’t a situation that will just blow over. Teammates are at odds and, forced to or not, management appears to have chosen a side. The only answer is another championship.
One player is certain Durant and Green can co-exist because neither wants to be the reason they don’t win. The Warriors just might have enough talent to overcome resentment and bitterness in their midst.
The question is whether anyone has words powerful enough to bridge chasms now permanent.
In the middle of the visiting locker room at Staples that night, as voices rose with the tension, an unlikely source stepped up and re-shifted the focus of the defending champions.
It wasn’t Curry. He wasn’t with the team in Los Angeles thanks to a groin injury. It wasn’t Green, the spark of the drama. It wasn’t Durant, who fumed in silence while the Warriors conversed heatedly amongst themselves.
It was Klay Thompson, the Warriors’ most carefree star, who spoke up, an occasion rare enough to turn the room down a few notches. While respected veterans Andre Iguodala and Shaun Livingston did their usual part to restore order, Thompson hit the mark as if it were a spot-up 3.
“We all want to win,” Thompson said in the locker room after the game, per accounts of people in the room. “That’s all this is about. We all want to win. I think we’re the only team that can beat us. Nobody else can beat us. So let’s go kick ass.”
― Greta Van Fleek (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 17:04 (five years ago) link
thx!
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 17:11 (five years ago) link
Aw shit dawg this is goodWld the site get in trouble for housing all the content tho?
― F# A# (∞), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 17:13 (five years ago) link
I mean there’s always pastebin
― F# A# (∞), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 17:14 (five years ago) link
we could put on 77?
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 17:16 (five years ago) link
i mean...i think it's fine probably
― Greta Van Fleek (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 17:17 (five years ago) link
yeah kinda doubt the athletic is out there policing things and like half this board is subscribers, ill prob become one soon based on reading the illicit good content, really its more advertising for them if anything we shd be getting affiliate benefits
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 17:20 (five years ago) link
cn someone post this one next https://theathletic.com/653527/2018/11/14/durant-vs-draymond-theories-on-why-these-two-warriors-stars-are-fueding
im living for dubs drama rn
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 17:21 (five years ago) link
at the very least feel like the thread should be deindexed
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 14 November 2018 17:57 (five years ago) link
yeah just deindex it*
*i don't know who would do this or how it works
― Greta Van Fleek (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 20:23 (five years ago) link
>>> i'll post this cuz i don't like to leave my guy lagoon high n dry and thirsting for drama.
however, feel like a mod should weigh in or an ILX illuminati elder
Durant vs. Draymond: Theories on why these two Warriors stars are feuding
Andre Iguodala is at his locker, in a locker room that’s emptied out earlier than usual. The nearby Kevin Durant space is conspicuously vacant. KD loves to talk, and usually lingers, riffing with teammates and reporters. Tuesday night he dressed quickly, gave a brief, sullen press conference and exited. In the press conference, when asked about his friendship with Draymond Green, Durant replied, “I don’t really think that even matters right now.”
I ask Andre if the Warriors can win with KD and Draymond at odds like this. Andre responds, “Shaq and Kobe ain’t like each other.”
Me: “But that ended in a way you wouldn’t want this to end, right?”
Andre: “They won three championships in a row. Ain’t that what you want to happen?”
Me: “I guess all things come to an end.”
Andre: “Everything come to an end.”
A dynasty is a fragile kind of dominance. That’s the paradox of ultimate victory. Once superiority is achieved, and achieved again, the game loses a certain internal logic. Why prove what’s proven? Why win what’s won? Invincibility is a holding pattern that can only remain so fulfilling. People, even the most competitive of people, are designed to chase goals, not maintain a grip on them in perpetuity.
That’s the backdrop of a more salacious circumstance, a gripping tale of how this dynasty might be unraveling. These are all meaningful parts of the story. The names, the dates, the feuds. It’s all very real right now, and suddenly. Seemingly out of nowhere, the Warriors revealed a situation perhaps beyond repair. And the internal slights matter, but one wonders if it could all be transcended if everyone felt the project worth repairing.
Two years ago, I wrote an article on this organization’s sometimes tempestuous relationship with Draymond Green. It was given the baity title, “Golden State’s Draymond Green Problem.” From my perspective, it wasn’t about how Draymond was a problem, but more about how he could tip the Warriors’ future in either direction.
Fast forward two championships.
Yesterday, people kept sending me this article, asking if current events are pertinent to its themes. Did yesteryear’s hyperbole prove prophetic?
My take? No, not necessarily. First, because championships two and three qualify as glorious successes. Second, because, much as we can parse Draymond’s actions, and much as they can cause strife, the current state of affairs speaks to something bigger than him, an issue he could perhaps mitigate but not solve: Winning isn’t enough.
Players talk about just wanting to win all the time. About the only player I’ve ever met who might actually, literally mean it is Steph Curry. Because winning isn’t done for its own sake. Winning is a means to certain ends. Beyond the camaraderie of collectively conquering a goal, beyond the money, there’s the adulation that comes with achievement. Winning correlates to winning at life, vastly increasing your status in the eyes of fans and peers alike.
Ask yourself: Has this obvious benefit of winning happened for Kevin Durant as a Warrior? Over the past two-plus seasons, perhaps the Warriors All-Star in need of the most adulation got the least adulation. His reputation is more or less what it was when he arrived. The man was incredible in back-to-back NBA Finals. Had he faltered, he would have been mocked in a manner only trumped by what LeBron James experienced in 2011. Lost in Monday night’s chaos was Clippers owner Steve Ballmer sidling onto the court to schmooze it up with Durant. He, like other owners this summer, offers to fill the void that winning did not. Also, note that Draymond has a view of such cajoling.
This might be a bigger issue than just Kevin Durant. The media landscape has changed. In the past, might made right, and winners were worshipped sans much nuance. Now, a social media-driven conversation picks apart historic accomplishments while basking in a perpetual present. Coming here and winning big was supposed to make KD the face of Nike. Instead, to many jaded fans, that swoosh looks like a coattail. The quaint idea that you can silence your critics with a trophy is just one of a million norms that have fallen by the wayside over the past few years.
This is the big problem for Warriors HQ, as they proclaim not to care about anything other than winning a championship this season. I’m not certain there’s a solution to Winner’s Ennui, but there are methods for recalibration. I have some thoughts on that, and I want to emphasize that they are my own. The thoughts are in contrast to what I’m being told, repeated assurances that, “This happens, Draymond does this, it’s happened before, etc.” Today’s turmoil can indeed be tomorrow’s footnote. This isn’t even the first time Draymond caused discord by calling someone a “bitch.” He did that to Steve Kerr back in 2016, when they were separated in the Oklahoma City locker room. It might have actually been the least vulgar thing Draymond said to Kerr in that exchange.
Anyway. The most interesting comment in Kerr’s pregame press conference Tuesday was perhaps the most boring, superficially. When asked to describe the relationship between Kevin Durant and Draymond Green, Kerr said:
“They have won championships together, they have been teammates now for three seasons and they were teammates on the Olympic team. You can draw your own conclusions.”
Not exactly a ringing endorsement of a brotherly bond. Not exactly a reaffirmation of what brought them together. Whatever is happening could pass, but whatever is happening is not being treated like it will. And that is rather strange.
Kerr and Bob Myers are not stupid men. They levied this suspension, knowing it would escalate a situation that could otherwise be dealt with in private. They knew this could seriously alienate Draymond. There’s broad agreement within the organization that Draymond crossed a line, but the public punishment is curious. It’s not a move that makes a lot of sense in a vacuum.
Unless there are other forces at play. Draymond Green will be 30 years old when he’s up for his next contract, which would be a $226 million super max in 2020 if he had his druthers. Draymond turned down a more modestly priced three-year extension in pursuit of a bigger prize. He is an amazing basketball player, who’s still underrated. You could see him continuing a career of defying NBA odds well into his 30s. Then again, not everybody buys this trajectory. Some within the Warriors might note that NBA longevity correlates with size, and shooting, neither exactly an advantage for Mr. Green.
The Warriors will never replace what Draymond Green has meant to them, but they could get a good starter at a third of the price going forward. You think Joe Lacob is unaware of this? And if losing Draymond is the cost of keeping KD? Lacob’s choice is obvious, emotions be damned. Of course, losing both players is, theoretically, the worst of all worlds, and a real possibility in this high stakes poker game. But the cost of paying these salaries keeps rising and there’s still an open question as to whether the Warriors want Draymond at the price he sees fit. That question would be open even if KD left. One wonders if this current catastrophe presents its own opportunity, its own pretext. As another Master of Coin once said, “Chaos is a ladder.”
Again, Draymond Green isn’t the problem. Winner’s Ennui is the problem. Sadly, there’s no solution to this problem but to shake up the roster, as recalibration can serve as its own challenge. Perhaps that means letting KD leave for New York or wherever else and recapturing a “Strength in Numbers” ethos. That’s likely not the outcome Lacob favors, even if Draymond is his guy. Two superstars are still better than one.
Iguodala is right when he says, “Everything come to an end,” but the owner of this team wants to end “the end” and reign over this league forever. That’s great for Warriors fans, insofar as an impossible aspiration can be maintained for a while. For individual players, perhaps not so much. Hard calls must be made, and feelings suppressed. The future is uncertain for a team that remains title favorites. Draymond might not be the problem, but the Warriors showed the world that he might be Kevin Durant’s problem. Perhaps it’s a last ditch effort to impress the seriousness of this situation upon a man who has meant so much to this franchise. That would be the more innocent read. It’s possible, even within the bounds of a business that remains jagged and brutal. As Kerr says, “You can draw your own conclusions.”
— Reported from Oakland
― Greta Van Fleek (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 20:25 (five years ago) link
Reading that first article I can't help but think Draymond's self-defense amounts to:
Yeah, big deal, so I fucked up and stepped way over a line that I shouldn't have, disrespecting my teammate. Sure, I expect to be punished for that, but quietly and maybe have to cough up a bit of pocket change in the way of a fine, and now it's so UNFAIR that I was slapped down hard in public -- even though I slapped KD just as hard and just as publically. And *ouch* that's a lot of money! Why'd they hafta do that to ME?!
iow, just a lot of bullshit self-regarding
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 20:36 (five years ago) link
thx! xp
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 21:00 (five years ago) link
ok i just dropped a hundo subscribing to the athletic and espn+ lol god bless im a responsible content consumer now, let me know if u need any draft info pasted here
― lag∞n, Thursday, 15 November 2018 19:14 (five years ago) link
oh nice may need some + content at some point
― Spottie, Thursday, 15 November 2018 19:17 (five years ago) link
i hate paying the mouse but my status as a draft thought leader has been eroded by lack of insider access
― lag∞n, Thursday, 15 November 2018 19:19 (five years ago) link
(feel good abt paying the athletic)
― lag∞n, Thursday, 15 November 2018 19:20 (five years ago) link
bless u
― Spottie, Thursday, 15 November 2018 19:20 (five years ago) link
Lagoon your thought leader status must be preserved at all costs
― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 15 November 2018 19:33 (five years ago) link
im glad were on the same page here
― lag∞n, Thursday, 15 November 2018 19:35 (five years ago) link
lagoons thought leader status is critical to maintain if ilh wants to have synergy with its core competencies and best practices, and of course to remain the omni channel king of hoops
― Spottie, Thursday, 15 November 2018 19:39 (five years ago) link
its mission critical to our brand identity and product market fit
― lag∞n, Thursday, 15 November 2018 19:41 (five years ago) link
― lag∞n, Thursday, November 15, 2018 2:14 PM (six hours ago)
I for one welcome our new content overlords. I too have subscribed to this great online service
― k3vin k., Friday, 16 November 2018 02:04 (five years ago) link
someone post please:
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/25470842/nba-mvp-race-answering-big-questions-giannis-lebron-kd-curry
― Celtoes Adidas (Spottie), Friday, 7 December 2018 19:49 (five years ago) link
Where does the NBA's MVP race stand nearly two months into the 2018-19 season?
It's never too early for MVP narratives to take hold, as what was once a topic for the spring now has become a season-long discussion. And indeed, betting markets and straw polls suggest that Milwaukee Bucks forward Giannis Antetokounmpo is the early MVP leader on the strength of his team's surprising start, with LeBron James the other leading contender in pursuit of his fifth Maurice Podoloff Trophy.
Yet narratives don't always match statistical reality, so let's ponder some of the big questions about the MVP with the help of advanced metrics, including whether Giannis is the right front-runner.
Can a center be most valuable?The leaderboards in most advanced stats at this early stage have a decidedly tall slant. Basketball-Reference.com's value over replacement player (VORP), for example, rates six centers and four other players listed as power forwards (one of them is Kevin Durant, who has actually played more minutes at small forward) among the league's top 14 players. Meanwhile, the PER leaderboard -- once we've filtered out low-minutes players -- is even more heavily tilted toward the frontcourt, with 19 centers in the top 30, including reserves Montrezl Harrell, Nerlens Noel, Jakob Poeltl, Dwight Powell, Domantas Sabonis and Jonas Valanciunas.
These results reflect a topic I addressed ahead of the NBA draft: Because the floor is so well spaced, it's never been easier to get productive play from centers. Indeed, consider the average PER by position (as defined by Basketball-Reference) weighted by minutes played:
Avg. PER (Weighted For Minutes)POS PERPG 14.7SG 13.1SF 13.0PF 14.9C 19.6Across all positions, the average PER is always set to 15.0. However, that varies widely across positions now, with centers naturally dominant and wings much weaker. It's not just the very best centers who are most productive, but also the ones who are cheaply available to teams -- including Noel and JaVale McGee, both of whom are in the top 30 in PER after signing one-year deals for the veteran's minimum as free agents this summer.
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When we're determining value, then, position has to be taken into account. To be as relatively valuable on a per-minute basis as a small forward with a 25.6 PER (like Kawhi Leonard), a center would need a PER of 32.2 -- something that's never been achieved in NBA history.
In other words, it's probably not possible for the best center in 2018-19 to be more valuable than the best wing player, which has important implications for the MVP chances of not only Joel Embiid (who's not actually among those high-rated centers, ranking 17th in PER and 26th in VORP) but also Anthony Davis (mostly -- though perhaps not exclusively -- a center).
Should Giannis be the front-runner?Although I used PER over average to make that point, the better way to define value in the context of MVP is as compared to replacement level -- the production we'd expect from a free agent signed for the minimum salary -- so as to properly credit players for their durability.
My wins above replacement player (WARP) metric now reflects a much higher level of replacement for centers, and to a lesser extent power forwards, as compared to wings in particular. With that adjustment, here's how WARP ranks this year's most valuable players (projected to 82 team games so as not to disadvantage players whose teams have played fewer games thus far).
2018-19 WARP LeaderboardPLAYER TEAM PS WARP/82LeBron James LAL F 19.2James Harden HOU G 19.2Kevin Durant GSW F 18.3Paul George OKC SF 17.1Damian Lillard POR PG 17.0Giannis Antetokounmpo MIL PF 16.5Kyrie Irving BOS PG 16.2Kemba Walker CHA PG 15.2Anthony Davis NOP C 14.1Mike Conley MEM PG 13.5Projected to 82 team gamesWhile LeBron tops this list, surprisingly it's last year's winner who's in a virtual tie with him. James Harden's stat line is basically identical to what he posted in 2017-18, but because his Houston Rockets have stumbled to an 11-12 start after winning a league-best 59 games last season, he's gotten zero attention as a possible repeat candidate. It will be interesting to see whether that changes if the Rockets turn things around. Damian Lillard, whose Portland Trail Blazers have fallen off after a strong start, is in a similar position after finishing fourth in last season's MVP voting.
The most interesting MVP candidate that position-adjusted WARP identifies is Paul George, who also ranks third in wins produced based on ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM), which isn't adjusted by position. George has played a key role in the Oklahoma City Thunder's league-leading defensive rating and has helped keep their offense afloat with 2016-17 MVP Russell Westbrook missing eight games. According to NBA Advanced Stats, Oklahoma City's offensive rating drops to a dismal 94.7 points per 100 possessions with George on the bench.
Those takeaways noted, let's dig deeper into the comparison between Giannis, LeBron and KD -- only two of whom can make the All-NBA first team because they all play forward. Why does Antetokounmpo lag behind the other two stars?
The first reason is the lower replacement level at small forward, where Cleaning the Glass estimates James has played 66 percent of his minutes and Durant 65 percent as opposed to 12 percent of Antetokounmpo's minutes.
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The Lakers' positionless lineups show the challenge in using position to determine value. Cleaning the Glass considers LeBron the small forward when he plays alongside power forward Kyle Kuzma, but in practice the defensive matchups with those lineups depend more on the opponent than any rigid position. And offensively, James tends to operate more as a point guard (particularly during Rajon Rondo's absence, as ESPN's Brian Windhorst recently broke down) than as a forward.
However, I think Durant's example reinforces the importance of positional replacement level. His ability to defend small forwards has allowed the Warriors to start Jonas Jerebko -- another big man who's excelled while making the veteran's minimum -- at the 4 in Draymond Green's absence rather than going deeper into their weak wing rotation.
The other key factor here is minutes played. Not only has Giannis missed a game due to injury, he's playing fewer minutes per game (33.8) than either LeBron (34.8) or KD (35.7), meaning Milwaukee has relied slightly more on its bench than those teams. While the difference isn't dramatic, along with position it helps explain why Antetokounmpo can rate better on a per-minute basis than James and Durant, yet still land behind them in terms of value.
When it comes to RPM, Antetokounmpo is actually third of the group in terms of per-possession rating and just 12th overall in RPM wins. As a result, I don't think Giannis should be considered the MVP front-runner based on advanced stats.
How many games does Curry need to play? How about Kawhi?Though playing time is a relatively small difference between the MVP front-runners, it's a huge factor for Stephen Curry (who has missed 11 of Golden State's 26 games) and a large one for Leonard (he's missed six of 26). When Harden won last season, the 10 games he missed were the most for an MVP since Allen Iverson (11) in 2000-01. That would basically imply Curry can't miss any more time and have a chance to win.
However, history should be considered a guide rather than a hard-and-fast rule, as Westbrook winning the MVP on a 47-win team offers a recent reminder that voters can always rethink MVP tradition. So instead, let's ponder the question of how many games Steph and Kawhi would need to play to be most valuable statistically. If we flip the leaderboard to WARP per 82 player games rather than team games, Curry shoots (pun intended) to the top:
2018-19 WARP LeaderboardPLAYER TEAM PS WARP/GStephen Curry GSW PG 22.4James Harden HOU SG 22.1LeBron James LAL PF 19.2Kevin Durant GSW PF 18.3Giannis Antetokounmpo MIL PF 17.3Kawhi Leonard TOR SF 17.2Paul George OKC SF 17.1Damian Lillard POR PG 17.0Kyrie Irving BOS PG 17.0Russell Westbrook OKC PG 16.8Per 82 games playedNonetheless, in part because he's played just 33.3 minutes per game, Curry will be hard-pressed to lead the league in WARP. Harden would beat him if they both played the remainder of the schedule at their current pace, and LeBron's 82-game pace isn't far behind. Voters might be willing to reward Curry even if he's slightly less valuable if it's strictly due to injury, but he can't miss many more games.
Since he hasn't been as dominant when he's played, Leonard's task is even more difficult. While he cracks the top 10 on a per-player game basis, Kawhi is still behind both Giannis and LeBron and would have to rely on the narrative power of leading the Raptors to the NBA's best record. They're currently three games up on the Denver Nuggets for that honor, with the Warriors four games back.
Curry staying healthy the rest of the season might actually have more impact on other candidates for MVP than his own hopes. If Golden State surges ahead of Toronto with Curry (the Warriors are 12-3 in games he's played this season and 5-6 without him), that could hurt Leonard's candidacy. It also becomes a lot more difficult for voters to pick Durant if he's not even the most valuable player on his own team -- something that was evident when Golden State struggled early on in Curry's absence, though it did give Durant the opportunity to put the team on his back during the Warriors' final four games without Curry, when they went 3-1 with an overtime loss in Toronto.
Whether Curry can stay healthy the rest of the season is just one of the many questions to be answered about the MVP race, which should still be considered wide open with more than two-thirds of the season left to be played.
― lag∞n, Friday, 7 December 2018 20:02 (five years ago) link
thx. interesting.
― Celtoes Adidas (Spottie), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:11 (five years ago) link
btw
love my adidads celtoes— Les Alizés Dénudés (@Marco0o0os) December 7, 2018
― lag∞n, Friday, 7 December 2018 20:16 (five years ago) link
oh damn, great minds etc.
mine is pulled from:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcN_rzouEI
― Celtoes Adidas (Spottie), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:19 (five years ago) link
nice
― lag∞n, Friday, 7 December 2018 20:21 (five years ago) link
pete rock >>>>> premo
― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:49 (five years ago) link
alright lets MFN DO THIS lol
― lag∞n, Friday, 7 December 2018 20:50 (five years ago) link
I LOVE that album btw.
not sure i'd go that far xp but it's pretty close! poll it!
― Celtoes Adidas (Spottie), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:55 (five years ago) link
tube amp warm glow vibeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdUr9mClegU
― Celtoes Adidas (Spottie), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:58 (five years ago) link
cool pete rock song imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiTy71nSkKw
― lag∞n, Friday, 7 December 2018 21:00 (five years ago) link
thats warm too. v good
― Celtoes Adidas (Spottie), Friday, 7 December 2018 21:10 (five years ago) link
https://theathletic.com/709415/2018/12/12/on-the-road-with-an-nba-spy-the-grinding-work-and-lifestyle-of-an-advance-scout/
eh?
― J0rdan S., Friday, 14 December 2018 17:12 (five years ago) link
On the road with an NBA spy: The grinding work and lifestyle of an advance scout
Ethan Strauss Dec 12, 2018 78 “Goddammit! Fucking shit! Would you look at this fucking guy!” Our scout is pointing at a portly man who stands between us and the escalator pathway. This is the truest enemy he knows. Our scout is never present for when the team that employs him faces a rival franchise. His only rivals are those who thwart arrivals on the league’s loneliest trail.
Every night features the arena’s stimulus overload, the roaring crowd, honking hype men and jangling music. His work ends in the wee hours of the morning, in a hotel, poring over film. It’s disorienting. My brain broke from merely observing. Details started blurring. I nearly missed a flight due to a dead certainty that my hotel was attached to the airport. Wrong, my brain was holding on to what had been true the night before, in a different city.
The problem was, I had no system for whatever this lifestyle is, not like our scout had. He was on a well-worn path. Our scout did not see the North American landscape as a collection of cities to be enjoyed, each with their own character and customs. No, he saw this terrain through the portals of his convenience. This city’s tram gets you to the hotel from the airport. This city’s skyways shield you from the cold. New York’s “N” train is all you really need to know about. Turn here. Down this hall.
The man is a travel sherpa, guiding you through the chaos of the ambling crowd. Every movement is propulsive. Every movement smoothly assertive, at least until those damned people get in the way. There’s a mini human traffic jam as we step onto an airport tram. “Folks who try and get on before everyone exits piss me off,” he mutters. You wouldn’t know from the running commentary, but this man is not a misanthrope. He’s actually quite kind, considerate even. He keeps looking out for me as I blithely lose myself in more crowds than Waldo. The road may have taken this man’s patience, but it hasn’t stolen his soul.
“Anyone flying to New York?!” a sharply dressed guy shouts to the tram passengers. There’s a gleam in the stranger’s eye, one that stays burning despite the lack of response. “Anyone flying to New York?!” He then asks our scout for the time and gets a blank stare. We exit the tram.
“Con artist,” our scout says. “I’ve seen it before. My job is to size things up.” The con artist, if he is a con artist, would be employing a predatory strategy called, “Forced Teaming,” as coined by Gavin de Becker in his bestselling book, “The Gift of Fear.” Good luck trying that on a professional lone wolf.
We keep walking, his steps always a few in front of my own. He’s as excited about Toronto’s tram to downtown as he was fearful of delays at customs (“You never know when there’s some damned Canadian holiday!”). Our schedule is always calibrated to hit ports of entry at the point of minimal crowding. “You see, if we were here in the morning …” is a common refrain.
Our scout is a middle-aged man who has been at this longer than seems sustainable. His specific trade is “advance scouting,” or NBA spying to put it in layman’s terms. He sits as close as possible to coaches and intercepts their play calls for upwards of 150 road games per season. Though this is the job description, it’s a less than clandestine existence. Teams know who he is, why he is there and even provide him the credentials. It’s part of NBA culture: Everyone is allowed to do this and may the best spies win.
Our scout is regarded as one of the best. Though his job is difficult and highly routinized, he made an exception for a slight detour. After my article on NBA spies garnered more interest from readers than anticipated, our scout wondered if I might delve deeper. I had only cracked the surface here. To understand this life, I had to live it, just a bit.
So, I would trail this member of a monastic sports caste. I would see how he fights for a team absent the camaraderie supposedly essential to team competition. It would be six games in seven nights, which by the way, is a merciful slice of schedule. Our scout has done 13 road games in 13 nights before. It’s not like merely high-level business travel, the kind represented by George Clooney’s “Up in the Air” character. This way is a blast furnace aimed at all your senses, interspersed with moments of crushing solitude.
So why does he do this?
The Rosetta StoneOne reason is because, unlike so many people, he can do this. The job requires a certain visio-spatial acuity. While walking briskly to an arena, our scout self-assesses, “I believe I might be on the spectrum.” I cannot offer a free diagnosis but can conclude that he’s capable of things that, to my mind, read as incredible.
At a hotel, we flip the TV to the end of a game involving a team he had recently seen in person. I ask for a running commentary of a crunch-time play, which our scout obliges, augmented by quick gesticulations. “They did this in the game we were at. These two guys are going to scissors off this pick. He’s going to cut to that corner, he’s going to cut to that corner. He’s going to pin that guy to the top. And then high pick-and-roll.” Boom. Boom. Boom. The play unfolds as predicted.
Our scout can tell us what’s going to happen before it happens, with the reliability of a “Minority Report” precog, and that’s even without the benefit of seeing the coach’s hand signal. One wonders how much a team could improve if all its players somehow magically absorbed this knowledge. Instead, teams settle for a more realistic reduction of this vast database, specifically tailored to each opponent, taught in film session to the roster, game by game.
Right now, our scout is deep into his hotel room routine, the work he does in addition to the report he sends from the arena. He’s typing away on Fast Draw, the league’s favored play diagramming software. The program is the evolutionary descendent of the days when IBM, as a major NBA sponsor, manufactured something to get NBA coaches toting ThinkPads on the sidelines in nationally televised games. Unfortunately for IBM, computer-based play diagramming, like writing, was always meant for solitude. The whiteboard just wouldn’t relinquish its grip as the public face of strategy.
Spurs coach Gregg Popovich uses a whiteboard to draw up a play against the Warriors. (File photo from 2013: Garrett W. Ellwood/NBAE via Getty Images)Once all the plays are drawn, our scout adds the personnel report (statistics, depth chart, top plays and player tendencies). Finally, the capper, a written report with offensive and defensive notes, which normally includes the future opponent’s top-play frequencies. In his room, “call sheets” are strewn across the table, records of team plays with their corresponding coach’s hand signals. I ask for the Warriors’ records, since I want to learn about the team I supposedly know all about. “It can’t be that much material,” I say, “Considering how many of their offense is transition play.”
/Bloof
He plunks the file down with a thud.
“Here, take a look, I don’t give a shit,” he says. “It ain’t our team’s secrets.”
Before me lies the intellectual framework of the Steve Kerr era, represented in the NBA’s version of hieroglyphics. Everything I theoretically knew, or at least saw at some point, has been chronicled for a particular kind of posterity. Or perhaps more accurately, this is Kerr’s basketball 23andMe results, a genealogy of thought. There are over 100 plays, with tally marks to indicate frequency. I ask to know where all this comes from. What can we divine of Kerr’s influences while leafing through these pages? Our scout starts rattling off what he sees.
“Hmm, all the Weak and Strong series is Gregg Popovich. All the Pop clones run Strong and Weak. Another big one is Doc Rivers, by way of Alvin Gentry, ’cause Alvin was his first lead assistant. Dribble, Drag, Backdoor is 100 percent from Doc Rivers. The Floppy series is from Pat Riley. He never played for Pat, but that got around the league. His Loop series is Popovich. His Pistol series, originally known as the 21 series, is Mike D’Antoni. His Pick-and-Roll series is called ‘Rub,’ and that’s from Popovich. He and Pop both rub their chests when they call that, but Pop sort of does it like he’s straightening his tie. Kerr also has a Slice series and that’s definitely from Doc Rivers. His Wedge series is Pop.”
I’m not hearing one name in particular. Whenever I followed the Warriors to New York, their local media would obsessively ask about then Knicks president Phil Jackson, hoping to draw some connection between Kerr and his former Hall of Fame coach. They often asked some version of, “Are you running the Triangle?”
“To be honest, looking through this playbook, I don’t see anything from Phil Jackson,” our scout concludes. “Not one damned thing.”
To be fair, there is at least one damned Phil Jackson thing in the Warriors repertoire: an out of bounds play called “What The Fuck” that dates back to the Bulls days. Perhaps there are some other plays, here and there. But in general, Jackson’s strategic influence on Kerr appears dwarfed by some coaches Kerr never even played for or worked with. Maybe Jackson’s impact is more subjective and generalized. Maybe the Zen Master’s legacy is a more abstract echo, like the loudest of one-handed claps.
Popovich’s legacy looms largest, perhaps over the league and certainly over Kerr’s whiteboard. Pop’s “Weak Roll,” a play that gets the ball moving side to side, is an absolute favorite of Kerr’s. Our scout chuckles about Kerr’s proclivity with that one. He pictures the coach rubbing his hands together in glee like Monty Burns at the mere prospect of calling this play. “Ah yes, yes, Weak Roll,” our scout intones with a grin. He’s not necessarily against the predictable nature of coaches, but he does find it amusing on occasion. “Lemme tell you something. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is a creature of habit like NBA coaches are.”
How it worksTime is of the essence because there’s a lot of work that needs doing. When I look over our scout’s shoulder, I’m watching a chain reaction. Minutes after the buzzer, he’s sending his work to the organization for processing and later, implementation. It’s a process by which thousands of miles and many hours of effort will get condensed down to a 6-8 minute video that our scout will never see.
Here’s how the chain works, the exact process by which your favorite teams prepare for battle. Our scout flies to a game featuring a team (let’s call them the Kings) that’s say, two games away on the schedule from playing his own. Ideally, he is granted a courtside seat, “the down seat” in scout parlance. Armed with a pen and a laptop, he watches closely and listens carefully, with extra focus on Kings coach Dave Joerger, a “pain in the ass” who’s liable to obscure his play calls from prying eyes. Our scout spends all game looking for visual and vocal representations of plays, followed by the plays themselves. A call of “fist up!” paired with the making of a fist reads easy enough, for instance. Or it would, anyway, if “fist” had a universal meaning.
NBA coaches have a tendency to use the same visual terms (fist, horns, thumb) to mean all manner of different things. It’s as though everyone speaks the same language, but nobody means the same thing when they speak it. The same holds true for defensive calls, which, unlike offensive calls, tend to be colors (“red,” “blue,” etc.) rather than visual representations. With an uncommon understanding of this Tower of Babel, our scout types the visual call, vocal call and resulting action into his “call sheet.” The pen is for noting new plays and frequencies of plays. The buzzer finally sounds and it’s time to quickly send this information to the video coordinators for tagging purposes.
Back at Team HQ, a video guy has stashed a few games of the upcoming opponent “in his editor,” most likely in a program called SportsCode. He’s working on a refining process, purging these games of random, useless filler, preparing a reel for the assistant coach tasked with the Kings matchup. “The video guy will go through and remove all the crap plays, the garbage, maybe they didn’t run something right,” our scout says. “He’ll clean all of that out and what he’ll give the assistant coach is all of the actual plays.” There’s an optimal kind of play to feature, with an eye towards the motivations of athletes. “Preferably, the play is an example of proper execution. We tend to want examples where they score. We want to play up the fear to the guys.”
With the assistance of our scout, the video guy now can tag these plays according to their names and visual representations. It’s one thing for your players to see tendencies and another to know they’re coming, when they’re coming. Watch for this next time you’re at a game in person, because the television vantage rarely picks it up. Often when the camera is trained on the after basket inbounds, a defensive player is out of view, on the other side of the court, gesticulating the offense’s next play to his teammates.
Steve Kerr uses a hand signal to call a play during a Warriors game in Utah earlier this season. (Gene Sweeney Jr./Getty Images)Before such information can take root, it must be prepared, reduced down to a digestible size. In further consultation with the assistant coach, the video guy produces that 6-8 minute video of the opponent’s most common plays, to be shown in morning shootaround and again in pregame. This video serves as the basis for morning “walk-through,” when players are physically guided through their strategy preparations. “Normally the video edit is going to highlight two examples of the opponent’s top plays, and include maybe a dozen to 15 plays total,” our scout says. “At walk-through, you might physically go through a half dozen of the most important ones.”
The point of walk-through isn’t just to key your players on what to watch out for, but also to specifically prepare them for such actions with an organized defense. It’s a process that got more granular with time, fit according to whatever talent you’re facing. “Back in the day, there was ‘The Rule of Nowitzki,’” our scout recalls. “You had to adjust to defend him. The real key to this is not just identifying who they are. As soon as you get that call, not only do you need to know what’s coming, but also how to stop it.”
Scout’s honorWe are in a hotel lobby, with a younger scout from another team. We sit near the bar, but not at the bar. They haven’t the time for drinks but commiserate a bit over the college game playing in the background. Finally, as our scout gets ready to leave, the younger scout asks, “Hey, did you get all the plays tonight?” Younger scout missed a few and our scout is happy to help. This is part of the culture, in the way that offering lecture notes to a friend in college might have been part of yours.
Oftentimes, in the bowels of an NBA arena, two scouts from different franchises meet in a conspiracy against the home team. It’s a common sight if you know what to look for. You might be in Brooklyn, in the media room, watching the Pacers scout and Wizards scout at one table, trading secrets on how to foil the Nets next week. As the ancient proverb goes, “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” In that media room, these scouts are brothers-in-arms, united in purpose against a common enemy. That is, until the Nets scout and the Wizards scout find each other in Indiana’s arena, both looking down the barrel at an upcoming Pacers game. Then it’s time to forge a new, convenient bond.
Collegiality has its limits. In Memphis, a seat next to our scout goes wanting. It was allotted to another team’s scout who never bothered to show. We have it on good authority that this scout got trashed the night before and decided to sleep this game away. Though this is a job often given to grinders, it’s also a spot where fringe NBA characters can get stashed on a part-time basis. Sometimes, it’s just a place for coaches to get a buddy a gig.
That’s fine and well, so long as such people don’t expect any help. Our scout sees the slacker at the airport the next day. On the plane, he gets approached and queried on whether he got all the plays. “How’d you make out?” the truant scout asks. He adds that he was there but bought a game ticket because he just wanted a better angle. This is bullshit. In Memphis, scouts tend to get the courtside seat and last night was no exception. He would know this if he actually showed up to work. “I did OK,” our scout says curtly. That reply effectively ends the conversation.
“I would have helped him if he just admitted he got bombed,” our scout says. Then he mutters, “serves them right for hiring a regional scout.”
The professional advance scouts largely look down on regional scouting, a system by which teams outsource scouting to hired guns in certain cities, some of whom are employed by multiple NBA teams. It was a system popularized by Popovich in the mid-2000s, theoretically out of mercy for the league’s most brutal profession. There was also some sense to Pop’s push back then. That era’s top Western Conference teams featured known quantities like Jackson, Jerry Sloan and Rick Adelman. Why grind some poor soul into dust when you already have so much information on these veteran coaches? The West has since been shaken up, but Pop’s reform lingers. Our scout believes the system is less reliable. “I can’t trade notes with a regional scouts. You never know if what they’re getting is right.”
Though Popovich might have undermined advance scouting as a profession, head coaches are the traditional allies of NBA spies. General managers and assistant GMs don’t tend to feel similarly. After I published my initial article on advance scouting, I received pushback from staffers in the GM camp. They weren’t sold on such spycraft mattering in the end.
“That sounds like GMs,” our scout says, when I relay this. “We can’t do shit for a GM. Their reputation is based on making a big personnel move. It’s the coaches who have an appreciation for us busting our asses on the road to get them what they need.” Whatever the merits of either perspective, this much is true, politically: The advance scout is yet another salary under the coaching aegis, rather than capital devoted to a GM’s cause.
Trade madeOur scout is inhaling a mound of vanilla ice cream, a guilty pleasure in Philly, which features one of the lesser credentialed guest meals. When asked why he’s not fat, given his lifestyle, our scout shrugs and says, “genes. And a lot of walking.” A younger staffer from his team happens to be at his table, looking at Twitter. “We made a trade!” the young guy says, having just learned the breaking news from social media. Our scout shrugs and offers that he wishes they’d do a deal for a younger player who’d been struggling. “What have you got to lose?!”
I ask if anyone from the team is calling. No, our scout’s phone is not blowing up. He’s not getting an inside scoop on how this all went down. On personnel decisions, he is out of sight, out of mind, a far off satellite that delivers perpetual information, tethered to his home planet by the most tenuous of gravitational tugs. This won’t change his job at all. He keeps eating.
The team that pays his salary seems to almost exist in a parallel universe. Our scout is never there for the games he studies for. When I hopped on the road with him, I looked in anticipation to his team’s upcoming game against the opponent he was spying on. We traveled thousands of miles following this prey, as he stalked them as the most dedicated hunter. When that game finally arrived, I had to remind our scout that it was in progress. We were at yet another game, in yet another arena, and he was tracking a new foe. “I hope my work helps, but there isn’t enough time to live and die with the game results,” he says. Our scout was already a few days in the future, the only place he truly resides. A glance at his laptop is a peek through a rear view mirror, where the present reads more like a quickly disappearing past than a moment the world lives in.
People have a finite amount of attention and this is certainly the case for our scout. He needs to prioritize, taking exactly what he needs in the moment and leaving everything else. When you’re, say, spying on both coaches in one game, basic game details slip away. “Often, I can’t tell you if one team is up by 40 or down by 40,” he says. Our scout is only fixated on what teams are running, a focus on process that fully eclipses results. In the end, our scout lives inside this riddle: He watches games but does not see the score and he prepares for games he does not see at all. Such is life in the alternate time space.
Dog, houseHis house is nice, if a little unkempt. Good neighborhood, two stories. There’s water damage that he might fix if he were ever here long enough. When I arrive it’s darkly lit but for the radiant energy generated by his loyal four-legged companion, a buoyant yellow lab. Scout dog is back from day care and thrilled to see his nomadic man. The grizzled scout takes a soothing tone with the dog, whispering baby talk to the happy beast. After we leave the house, our scout says, “I gotta be honest. If it was most people in the river and my dog, I’m saving my dog.” He now takes the dog on the rare, close road trip. Certain hotels have more relaxed restrictions than others. I’m told the dog makes connections with hotel workers faster than our scout ever did. The road is less lonely with a dog, not just due to the companionship, but also because strangers seem to offer more of their humanity in the presence of an animal.
Beyond his evident popularity, scout dog provides stability in a life on the go. Not everybody can or would keep up. Our scout is single, his longest romantic relationship having lasted eight years. Our scout has plenty of friends, though, especially in the basketball business. They see him all the time, just not so much in person. His phone regularly pings with the same kind of text message: a photo of our scout on TV, seated courtside, staring with a coldness that could make a rink out of hardwood. As he shows me the latest such text, he smiles widely, and suddenly looks unrecognizable from the haunted visage on the phone.
Our scout achieved a measure of emotional fulfilment when his team won the NBA championship. It was the culmination of a career, and moreover, just plain fun. Unlike everyone else, he got to relax a bit through the process, as his side of the preparation was largely done. He got to watch the games with his own team for once. He wasn’t out on the road by himself for once. And then, there was the thrill of ultimate victory and the quiet satisfaction in knowing you pitched in.
Except, that night, the euphoria had an undercurrent. “My celebration was kind of, you know, muted,” our scout remembers, with a grimace. That girlfriend of eight years had finally left him, weeks before the championship, for someone else. It was all fairly predictable. How can you share a life with someone who’s never there? How can you plan for the future with a man who lives entirely in an alternate time space? When asked if he has any regrets regarding multiple relationships this job undermined, our scout is steadfast. “No. Basketball was all I ever wanted to do.”
Why? That part is less clear. He was in love with the game growing up, so much so that he traded away certainty for whatever this is. He was premed at a top-flight college, only to ditch it all when a college coaching opportunity came up. He never looked back. “If you could have told me, back then, that I’d be working in the NBA? Shit. Of course I’d do it all again.”
What is the reward system for such labor? It used to be clearer. One of his happiest memories and biggest accomplishments happened long ago, back when he was working as a college assistant coach. He prepared like hell for an undefeated Duke team, despite his squad’s lack of a realistic chance. The college game is simpler, with not as much strategy altered according to opponent. Our scout had some different ideas for big, bad Duke, suggesting pick-and-roll coverages, fit according to the offensive threat. Nothing groundbreaking, but unexpected at that level.
Duke was caught unaware. The Blue Devils shot poorly, got somewhat unlucky and lost. The upset unleashed bedlam in the college town. Our scout went to a bar his friends often frequented, taking in the crazy scene he knew he had a secret hand in causing. A woman he was hooking up with at the time approached him. She did not mince words. They would be getting together later that night. “That felt pretty good,” our scout says, reminiscing.
Life is a bit different these days. When victory happens, there is no bedlam and no visceral spoils. It’s usually hundreds of miles away and hardly registered. Winning and its rewards have been traded for the process that once secured that massive victory over Duke. Now that our scout is older, this process not only remains but sustains. “I like the work,” he says. At least it remains constant.
The end“Go! Go! Go!” Our scout is exhorting me into the car with the verve of a NASCAR pit crew member. This will be our last trip, and unfortunately, it will be a hurried adventure. He’s running late and the streets are choked with weekend festival-goers. After struggling with the trunk, I leap into the front seat and suddenly feel my face engulfed by a warm dampness. Scout dog is here and he’s saying hello, nearly licking my glasses off. We zoom out to the doggy day-care dropoff and then to the airport.
The conversations bounce around various topics. Our scout discusses what he’s read most recently, a book on George S. Patton. He doesn’t have the free hours for many hobbies but enjoys reading about World War II. “Not joining the military is one of my biggest regrets,” he says at one point, adding that, when he sees military members on his flights, he feels guilty. Tactics and hardware obsessed him from an early age. He can rattle off details from different battles, the tanks they used, what technology proved decisive and differentials in man power.
With the clock ticking, we get to life subjects. What exactly happened with that long-term girlfriend? What happens now in your life? The former has a clear answer, but the latter far less so. Our scout eases into a parking space and opens the door. I get a text informing me that my flight is delayed. I wish to relax in my newfound pocket of languor but will keep pace with the hurried for now. Our scout says, “You know, I do want to have kids. Someday, if I meet the right woman …”
We exit the vehicle and commence walking briskly. He will make his flight. He had more time than he thought, just not nearly as much as I did.
― lag∞n, Friday, 14 December 2018 17:38 (five years ago) link
I couldn’t finish that pretentious shit. Barely made it through the intro.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 14 December 2018 18:07 (five years ago) link
ESS is really a lot to handle it's true
― J0rdan S., Friday, 14 December 2018 18:47 (five years ago) link
We exit the vehicle and commence walking briskly.
lol
― lag∞n, Friday, 14 December 2018 18:52 (five years ago) link
he can be a lot but i really liked that one
― call all destroyer, Friday, 14 December 2018 19:07 (five years ago) link
i love ethan
― тпсбlack (Spottie), Friday, 14 December 2018 19:11 (five years ago) link
non basketball but supposed to be amazing
https://theathletic.com/721275/2018/12/18/
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 19 December 2018 03:33 (five years ago) link
lol the title alone is very good
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 03:35 (five years ago) link
The Passion of Mike Piazza: How the midlife crisis of a baseball Hall of Famer led to the demise of a 100-year-old Italian soccer club
By Robert Andrew Powell 227 When Mike Piazza arrived in Reggio Emilia, he was greeted as a hero.
It was June 18, 2016. Everyone remembers the exact date. Piazza had just purchased a controlling interest in A.C. Reggiana 1919, the Italian city’s soccer club. Few locals had heard of him. Even fewer understood his Hall of Fame career catching for the Mets, Dodgers, and three other teams in the American sport of baseball. “When I learned he was the new owner, I went out and bought his autobiography,” says Jacopo Della Porta, a reporter for La Gazzetta di Reggio. “I think I’m the only one here who has read it.” Piazza was obviously rich. His U.S. citizenship gave him a certain baseline allure. Above all, it was his stated plan to return Reggiana to the top flight of Italian soccer that inspired several thousand fans to squeeze into a public square to see him in person.
Reggiana had languished in Serie C, the Italian third division, since the turn of the century. For a club that has known glory—Carlo Ancelotti coached the team into Serie A, in 1996—the long spell of mediocrity has been dispiriting, even embarrassing. Piazza declared, in translated English, that the club was back in solid financial shape. He said he was in Italy for the long haul, invested in the community, and committed to Reggiana’s success. At the rally, smoke from ignited flares swirled around him. Maroon flags waved. Ultras raised their scarves and chanted songs and reached out to shake Piazza’s hand. “Dai c’andom!” Piazza shouted. “Come on!”
Two years later, A.C. Reggiana no longer exists. The club is bankrupt. A court-appointed accountant is distributing its assets.
In what should have been Reggiana’s centennial season, a different team, not owned by Piazza, now represents the city, down in Serie D, which is only semi-pro. The mayor of Reggio Emilia accuses Piazza of “disrespecting” his town. Those ultras who initially cheered Piazza painted death threats on the walls of the team’s headquarters.
When it all ended last summer, Piazza and his family fled Reggio Emilia so abruptly that the fans—along with team, staff, and even the players—felt blindsided. “They ghosted us,” says Sonya Kondratenko, an American who handled social media for the second and final year Piazza owned the team.
Piazza thought he had embarked on a romantic new chapter of his life. He believed he would stay in Italy for the next three decades, running Reggiana and eventually handing the club down to his children. His wife, Alicia, who never wanted him to buy a soccer team, to whom Piazza handed control of the club after a disastrous first year, and who many in Reggio Emilia blame for the club’s implosion, saw the possibility of a different ending. As they stepped off the stage in the plaza, she pulled her husband aside.
“Either we’re going to have the best experience ever,” she told him, “or we’re going to get rolled.”
Reggio Emilia is a small city about an hour’s train ride south of Milan. Nestled in Italy’s “Food Valley” alongside Parma, Bologna, and Modena, Reggio Emilia is known for its pumpkin tortellini and its namesake cheese, Parmigiano Reggiano. The tricolor national flag first flew in Reggio Emilia, in 1797, its creation celebrated in a museum in the old town center. The headquarters of fashion house Max Mara sit not far from a new train station designed by Santiago Calatrava. Locals are well-educated; Reggio Emilia is known around the world for its progressive schools. They’re also wealthy, though they tend not to flaunt it. The city has a history with communism and retains a collectivist ethos. “We work,” one resident tells me, summing up the city’s view of itself.
The Piazzas, for the two years they ran Reggiana, lived in a rented villa outside the city. They spent their summers in South Florida, where they’ve kept a home for more than a decade. I visited them in Florida in August, arriving as the sun set on Sunset Island II, a triangle of extremely expensive homes connected by a short bridge to Miami Beach.
“This interview’s going to be wet,” Mike said soon after I arrived. He stepped toward a bar in the living room and smiled. “I hope that’s okay with you.”
Mike poured me a glass of Grande Alberone Quintus, a red blend. Alicia sipped a chardonnay. My crystal glass was etched with the letter P in a curled script. Mike cupped his glass in his fingers as if it didn’t have a stem or a base.
“We do this every night,” Mike said, popping a chunk of cheese into his mouth as he settled into a striped Louis XIV chair. Behind him glimmered a swimming pool, and then the calm waters of Biscayne Bay. Alicia sat opposite Mike, near a tray of vegetables.
“It’s a tragedy,” Mike said of his soccer-team ownership. “Like an opera.”
“It was fucking hell,” said Alicia.
After retiring, Mike slipped into the languid life of ex-athletes in Florida. I’d seen pictures of Mike and Alicia appraising paintings at Art Basel. They hosted a benefit for the National Italian American Foundation at their waterfront house. He smoked cigars and golfed with Mario Lemieux and Michael Jordan and James Pallotta, the American owner of Italian soccer club Roma. He golfed a bit more than he cared to, actually.
“I think we got to a point in Miami where we got a little too melancholy,” Mike said. “Maybe that was part of it what fueled what I was doing. I wanted to do something different. And I wanted to do something interesting, and I wanted to do something creative.”
Piazza, who recently turned 50, came of age during the best days of the North American Soccer League. Growing up in Pennsylvania, he was a fan of the Philadelphia Fury, and also the indoor Fever. After he retired from baseball, his appreciation for soccer blossomed. He sat in the stands in Genoa in 2012 when the U.S. men’s national team defeated Italy for the first time. He and a friend flew to Brazil for the 2014 World Cup—“a bucket list sort of thing.” He loved how, unlike baseball, soccer is truly global, played and watched in every country. He began to think that owning a soccer team might be the most interesting thing someone in his position could do.
“I was retired when my second daughter was born,” he said. “And it’s my kids—I would never trade them for the world—but I remember thinking, ‘Here I am, I used to be hitting home runs in front of 43,000 people, and now I’ve got shit under my fingernails from changing diapers.’ There is nothing you will ever do after you retire that will give you the same buzz as playing. I’m sorry. I was able to recognize that and rationalize it and come to a point in my mind where you know maybe it”—buying a soccer team—“was like this super rebound.”
First, he looked at the Premier League. Everton. He flew into London and took a train up to Liverpool, visiting the port city for the first time. Eventually, he concluded the numbers would never work. He dropped down a league to investigate Reading, and also Leeds United. (“I’ve always liked Leeds. It’s weird.”) He pivoted back to the Americas, meeting with the president of Liga MX to discuss maybe buying Las Monarcas de Morelia. (“That would have been crazy.”) Then he investigated his options in Italy. That country seemed like the best fit.
There was the chance to actually live in Italy. Mike’s maternal grandparents are from Sicily. (Piazza translates as “public square;” the welcome rally in Reggio Emilia was held in Piazza Prampolini.) He didn’t visit his homeland until he was in his 30s, but when he did, he felt Italian. He loved the food, the wine. He identified with the people. Also, the soccer landscape appeared much more open.
“I believe that Italian soccer clubs are the most undervalued assets in sports,” says Joe Tacopina, the American owner of Venezia FC. Tacopina was also part of the initial group of Americans that bought Roma, in 2011. “This worldwide club, one of the best-known teams on the planet. And we paid just 110 million euros. For the whole club! For Roma! You can spend that much on just one good midfielder!”
Piazza first wanted to buy Parma, a Serie A club then in bankruptcy. Ultimately he felt Parma carried too much debt for him to absorb. Reggiana looked more attractive. Despite being in Serie C, the team’s passionate fans bought an unusually high number of season tickets. Reggiana also played in a top-flight stadium shared with Serie A club Sassuolo. Unlike a Premier League team, or a team already in Serie A, this was a club he could buy cheap and build.
Alicia, who refers to Mike’s ownership dream as “his midlife crisis,” offered up a counter argument.
“Who the fuck ever heard of Reggio Emilia?” she asked. “It’s not Venice. It’s not Rome. My girlfriend said, and you can quote this—and this really depressed me. She said, ‘Honey, you bought into Pittsburgh.’ Like, it wasn’t the New York Yankees. It wasn’t the Mets. It wasn’t the Dodgers. You bought Pittsburgh!”
In their Miami living room, Mike tried to interject but she stopped him.
“And imagine what that feels like, after spending 10 million euros. You bought Pittsburgh!”
“It’s not easy for an American to come to Italy and try to do business in Italian soccer,” says Gaël Genevier, a midfielder and the Reggiana team captain during Piazza’s ownership. “It’s a jungle. And when you have money, it’s even worse. Mike had a big wallet, he was American, and he didn’t know the soccer in Italy. And I think that’s why he had a lot of problems.”
Soon after Piazza bought Reggiana, he set out to raise the visibility of the club. He gifted Jimmy Kimmel a maroon jersey, on air. The New York Times flew over a reporter for a feature story. On Sports Illustrated’s “Planet Fútbol” podcast, Piazza talked about market discipline, about having a financial plan, about sticking to the plan for the long haul.
“When I took over the club I had a meeting with all the staff,” he told host Grant Wahl. “I said, if you don’t believe we can get to Serie A in five years, then I respectfully ask you to leave right now.”
Turns out, that’s not how it works in Italy. Piazza was free to fire anyone, but whoever he did fire still had to be paid, often for years. Contribute, they call it. In the three months between Piazza’s purchase of Reggiana and the moment he actually took over operations, the number of people employed by the club ballooned. The sporting director he inherited collected a bigger salary than the sporting director of Lazio, in Serie A—and for three years, guaranteed, no matter what. The players’ contracts were exceptionally generous for the Italian third division. The team captain told Piazza so. “They were attractive contracts for even B, one level up,” Genevier says. Piazza was overpaying for everything.
The year before Piazza bought Reggiana, the club finished in seventh place in its division, with operational costs of around 500,000 euros. In Piazza’s first season with the club, Reggiana finished in fifth place, but at a cost to Piazza of more than six million euros.
“When the auditors told us that, it was deafening to our ears,” recalled Alicia. “I turned to Mike and said, ‘What the fuck did you just do?!”
Mike decided he could no longer work with the front office he’d inherited. He also cut ties with his original partner, an Italian he knew from Miami. Looking around for someone who could protect his interests, he didn’t see many options.
“Alicia became the only one I could trust,” Mike said. “I basically took the budget and I turned to her and went, ‘Help. I don’t know what to do.’”
From that point on, Alicia Piazza took charge of Reggiana. And she started making changes.
Alicia Piazza began modeling in her teens and kept at it for a decade. After appearing in Playboy—Miss October, 1995—she saved some lives on the TV show “Baywatch” before showcasing a Broyhill dinette set as one of Barker’s Beauties on “The Price is Right.” She earned a master’s degree in psychology while in Miami. For more than a decade, she had seen herself primarily as a mom to their three kids.
Suddenly, she was vice president of AC Reggiana 1919.
Cost-cutting became her priority, in a way that felt personal. Every dime squandered was a direct hit to the family’s net worth. She ordered the drivers for youth team buses to stop dropping off players at their houses, to save on gas. She ordered the players to wash their own uniforms. (“I don’t think she realized that in Italy not everyone has a washing machine,” says Kondratenko, the American who handled social media for Reggiana.) She typed angry texts, calling employees she fired “conmen” and “frauds” and “liars.” The salutation of one text Alicia shared with me, sent to the team’s former sporting director: “Fuck off, loser.”
“I was the bitch,” she admitted. “I was the bad guy. And I’m sure I have a lot of enemies, and I’m sure you heard a lot of bad things about me and I don’t give a shit. I ripped the mask off so many faces.”
The Piazzas put their Miami Beach house on the market in January. Alicia sent a general email asking if anyone in the front office might want to buy it, asking price $18.5 million. She encouraged a friend of hers in Parma—the one who compared Reggio Emilia to Pittsburgh—to design a jewelry line to celebrate Reggiana’s 100th anniversary. The whole office sat in meetings to decide which rings and bracelets in the collection worked best. “I always thought the club would never fold before the anniversary, just because of all the time she put in on the jewelry,” says Kondratenko. Deviating from her mission to cut costs, Alicia renovated the players’ locker room, adding new tile and an extra toilet. One day, Kondratenko was pulled from her regular work assignments to shuttle Brande Roderick—a Playmate, a “Baywatch” lifeguard, and Alicia’s close friend—to the train station.
“My life plan is not to be doing errands for Playmates,” Kondratenko tells me.
The clear goal in the second season was for Reggiana to earn promotion to Serie B. New sporting director Ted Philipakos, an American who came over from Venezia FC, upgraded Reggiana’s quality on the pitch. He also found a new coach in Greece, where Philipakos holds dual citizenship and retains connections in the sport. They agreed on terms. The coach flew up to Reggio Emilia with his staff, ready to sign his contract and get started. Only after he arrived did the Piazzas balk at the compensation. Alicia offered to pay him and his staff 15,000 euros less than the original offer, a relatively small sum. After the coach protested, she floated a smaller cut of 7,500 euros. The coach flew back to Athens, on principle.
When Mike named Alicia the club vice president, he stepped back a bit. “He likes to stay above the fray,” she said. “It’s not like he’s a pussy or he needs his wife. It’s the way he’s comfortable. He’s always been like that.” In her newly elevated role as Reggiana’s “first lady,” she became a bit of a media sensation. She gave interviews at the team headquarters. She answered questions at restaurants when reporters approached her table, filming. “Alicia always talked down about Reggiana being a peasant team in a peasant town,” says Kondratenko. “She thinks these people have no class, but in some aspects they were super impressed with Alicia. She has money, she’s from the U.S., she has a Chanel bag and a Gucci bag.”
The influential magazine Sportweek invited Alicia to sit for a long interview. It’s her understanding that she was the first club vice president ever to be formally interviewed, and the first woman at any level in Italian soccer.
“I knew we had to get our story out about the stadium,” she said. “And I was feeling there was a conspiracy and I was feeling something (dark) in this underbelly.”
When Reggiana rose to Serie A in 1993, the club and the government of Reggio Emilia recognized the need for a home stadium worthy of the top flight. Locals funded much of the new stadium themselves, purchasing season tickets years into the future to cover construction costs. But Reggiana lasted only two campaigns in Serie A. The club itself went bankrupt. Ownership of the stadium reverted to the city, and the mayor put it up for auction. A billionaire named Giorgio Squinzi bought it, cheap.
Squinzi is the head of Mapei, a conglomerate that sells paint and adhesives. He also owns Sassuolo, a Serie A club which now plays its home games in Reggio Emilia, in the stadium Reggiana built, which Squinzi renamed after his company. Reggiana still played there, too, though they had to pay rent. In a development that Alicia noted on Instagram, the rent almost doubled in the short time between when Mike bought the club and when he actually took over its operation. That’s what Alicia wanted to talk about with Sportweek publisher Andrea Monti.
“He’s balding but he’s powerful and he’s become sexy,” she said of Monti. “He apparently never comes into these interviews, but he comes in and shakes my hand. Everyone thinks it’s because I’m cute, I know. But I was hungover and I was not cute that day. He crosses his legs and he stays for 45 minutes. Then he says this to me, which I will never forget:
“‘Reggio is a strange town and it’s run by the politicians. Don’t you wonder why that town has the (Calatrava) train station? There’s a lot of money there but it’s all controlled by Squinzi. But I think you, my dear, are going to give him a run for the money.’”
From that meeting on, Alicia vowed “not to give fucking Mapei another dime,” she said. “And let me tell you, that was the point where it was like, ‘Alicia sank the company.’”
On March 8th, reportedly at Alicia’s urging, Mike Piazza held a press conference to address Reggiana’s growing debt to Mapei. “It was the worst day of my life,” says Kondratenko, who recorded the press conference in a video that went viral, not just in Italy but around the world. Piazza sat at a table, Alicia silently on his right, an interpreter to his left. Ads for Riunite wine and Parmigiano Reggiano flashed and dissolved on a screen in front of his microphone. “We’re invested in this community,” he said in his opening. “I’ve moved my family here, my children here, to be part of this community.” He slapped the table, hard. “And we deserve respect!”
While Mike spoke in English, he showed impressive fluency in Italian hand gestures.
“We are not going to be PUSHED AROUND by a multi-billion dollar corporation,” he continued. “The stadium was built for this team.” He tapped his index finger on the table three times. “By these PEOPLE!” He tapped a couple more times, furiously. His voice almost cracked when he said, “We’ve reached out in friendship to try to form a coalition with the mayor, with Mr. Squinzi, with Sassuolo, with Mapei, and we’ve gotten”—he slammed down a fist—“NOTHING!” His hand slashed the air with a karate chop. “NOTHING!” He pointed his index finger. “And I’m sick of it! I’m tired and sick of Reggiana being pushed around. I’m frustrated and I’m….” He inhaled a breath. “Ffffffffreakin’ pissed off!” He fell back in his chair and let the translator have at it. Alicia remained motionless.
This went on for more than 10 minutes. He said he isn’t a quitter, but he has his limit. If the rent wasn’t lowered to at least the league average for Serie C, he’d walk away.
“Probably that was the first step in an exit strategy,” says Gazzetta reporter Della Porta.
There was a period early in the second season, in the fall of 2017, when Alicia wasn’t there. She returned to Miami for a bit, to prepare their house for sale. Right after she left, in a development Reggiana supporters tell me is no coincidence, the play of the team dramatically improved. Reggiana strung together two unbeaten streaks of eight games each, vaulting the club from 15th place into second, tantalizingly close to automatic promotion to Serie B. Mike, who stayed in Italy, got hands-on with the team, pulling players aside for one-on-one interviews.
“We knew he was a good athlete, he won a lot of things,” says Genevier. “His Italian wasn’t very good—he spoke in English and the translator translated everything to the players—but he was very, very positive inside the locker room. I remember the players were very happy after each speech of Mike’s. He was the president but he was like a player.”
Without the Greek coach they’d failed to sign, the team was forced to use a Frankenstein’s monster for a manager: One man, who had his coaching license but no experience in Serie C, became the titular leader, while two coaches from the youth teams—both lacking the proper licenses—picked the rosters and the tactics and ran the training sessions.
Somehow it worked. Mike witnessed away victories over Santarcangelo and AlbinoLeffe. Before kickoff, he’d shake hands with the ultras and give his pep talks in the locker room. He followed the action closely.
“When that ball went into the net, I felt like I was playing again,” Mike said. “I’ve never done cocaine, I’ve never done crystal meth, I’ve never done hard drugs, or any drugs for that matter besides aspirin. But let me tell you, that was fucking intoxicating.”
Reggiana finished the regular season in fourth place in their division. The team could still rise to Serie B by winning a playoff tournament. In the quarterfinals, Reggiana matched up against Siena, a strong club, for a home-and-home series. Reggiana won the opener, 2-1. In the second leg, down in Tuscany, Siena held a 1-0 lead deep into the second half. The tie in aggregate meant Siena would advance thanks to that club’s better regular-season finish. But in the first minute of stoppage time, Reggiana scored. In his box, Piazza leapt from his seat.
“Mike was into these games,” says Philipakos. “Obviously he had a lot of money on the line—that was a factor. But the raw emotion wasn’t just about protecting his investment. It was about competition. He was very engaged. When we equalized in stoppage time, he exploded. What followed minutes later was visible heartbreak.”
What followed was decried as “unjust” by Reggio Emilia mayor Luca Vecci. In the sixth minute of stoppage time, a Siena midfielder lofted a ball into the Reggiana box. In the scramble, a Siena player pushed over one of Reggiana’s defenders. Somehow, the referee called a hand ball on the toppled fullback. Yes, the ball briefly touches the player’s arm, but he was on his back from the fall, and he fell because he’d just been bodychecked. Still. Penalty. Siena converted in the 109th minute, with the last kick of the game. Reggiana lost the series. No promotion. Ultras stormed the pitch, looking for blood. Even the mayor ran to midfield.
“It was horrible,” says Genevier, the team captain. “I’ve never seen anything like it. I’ve played more than 300 games in Italy and this one was really the worst one.”
The next day, Mike Piazza posted a message on the official Reggiana website:
“Last night I could not comment because I had to go home with my children. I regret that they had to witness such corruption and incompetence. I’m deeply disgusted and angry. I’m really sorry for our fans, they do not deserve this. It’s really a sad day for Italy and for Italian football. I will never understand how some dirty and corrupt individuals managed to make something so beautiful so repugnant and ugly. I’m sick.”
Two days after the Siena loss, the Piazzas appeared to have emotionally recovered. They hosted a thank-you rally in a small, old stadium near the center of Reggio Emilia. The ultras turned out, as always. Flares burned, flags waved. Smoke floated around Mike, just as it had two years earlier at his grand arrival. The players trooped out in their jerseys, Genevier holding the hand of his young son. The Piazzas stood in front of them. Mike spoke first, in little snippets followed by pauses for translation.
“I want to thank the first lady,” he said, turning to Alicia. She curtseyed in her orange dress. The fans chanted her name. “I’m just going to tell you how much work she has done in the office behind the scenes. And it’s true when I tell you the only reason we’re here today after this beautiful season is because of Alicia. She convinced me to go on. So we all owe a debt of gratitude to her. Grazie!”
Mike kissed her. The ultras continued chanting her name. A female fan stepped onto the grass to offer Alicia a bouquet of white flowers.
“These guys played their asses off and they played with so much heart and determination,” Mike continued, turning to the players. “And it’s really sad the way it ended. But that doesn’t change the effort and the drive and the love they applied.”
Mike held up his fists over his head, a signal of strength and resolve. “I salute this team,” he concluded. “God bless! Enjoy the summer! Well done.”
Everyone left the rally thinking the mission continued. The team would stay together, the Piazzas would remain as owners.
“From my perspective, we had righted the ship,” says Philipakos. “If not for a totally absurd referee’s decision maybe we’d be in Serie B right now. We still had all these great things in place. The key players weren’t going to go anywhere. Most of the starters were under contract. We could have hit the ground running, and should have been a really strong favorite for promotion.”
The rally took place on June 5th. Mike flew to New York to throw out the first pitch before a Mets-Yankees game. Alicia stayed in Italy. On June 8th, a Friday, she invited the front office to lunch at a neighborhood café. Everyone shared a spread of cured meats, cheeses, and fresh pasta. Corks popped off wine bottles. It felt upbeat and celebratory. Alicia told them that with the season over, they should all consider themselves on vacation.
She meant more than that. On Monday, a chain and lock hung on the front door to the offices. Zip ties secured the gates to the parking lot. The Piazzas were gone. The players didn’t know what to do. Should they find new teams? Kondratenko says she didn’t know any more than the players. Should she fly back to the States?
“I woke up to a thousand WhatsApp messages asking what was going on,” she recalls. “I couldn’t take a coffee because so many people were coming up to me asking for information.”
On the 13th of June, on the team website, Mike Piazza announced that he’d put the team up for sale. Alicia issued her own statement: “Unfortunately, Reggiana has been under attack from negative forces since Mike’s arrival. … The suspicious loss in Siena was the final blow. We are generous but we are not crazy.”
One week later, the Piazzas returned to Reggio Emilia and were spotted at the team offices. More than a hundred ultras marched into the office parking lot, chanting and demanding answers. Carabinieri—national police aligned with the military—showed up for the Piazzas’ safety. The police advised the Americans to avoid the front door of the complex and exit through the back. Mike assured them it wouldn’t be necessary—he had always enjoyed a good relationship with the fans.
The carabinieri informed him that the relationship had changed. The Piazzas slipped out the back door, under police escort.
At their house in Miami, drinking wine, both Piazzas told me the end was inevitable. The plane was in a nosedive when they entered the cockpit—when they first arrived in Reggio Emilia—and they knew it immediately. They hung on for two full seasons, at great personal expense, only to get robbed in the playoffs against Siena.
“And we had enough!” Alicia shouted. “And they’re like, ‘Well, let’s sign up for next year and lose another four million euros altogether.’ Who’s losing the four million? We are! We’re losing the four million and not you. So we each took a pill”—she’s speaking figuratively—“we said, ‘Romeo and Juliet did this, we’re going to kill ourselves before you fucking get to kill us.’”
The Piazzas and their Italian attorneys initially tried to sell the club to a group of Reggio Emilia businessmen. When a deadline for fielding a team in Serie C passed, the businessmen opted to simply start up their own, new team, with the mayor’s blessing. Reggio Audace—“Bold”—play down in Serie D, with a roster of amateurs and unpaid professionals. The president of the new team tells me he’s still friends with the Piazzas. He wants them to grant him the official Reggiana name, now that they are done with soccer in the city. The Piazzas have said they will probably turn over the name, once the dissolution is complete.
In the public square where Mike made his initial arrival, there’s a small sign stating that it was there, in the same plaza, that Reggiana was founded 100 years ago. The square is ringed with restaurants and shops, including the official Reggiana team store. Piazza still owns the store, technically. When I was there in August, team jerseys remained for sale even though the team itself no longer existed. One T-shirt featured the “C’mon!’ phrase that Piazza cried out at his introduction. A poster of Piazza, from his days in baseball, had been taken down. No one wanted to see it anymore.
“Maybe it could have been different,” Mike told me in Miami Beach. “If I could re-engineer the whole thing I’d go back and save a lot of the money that was squandered. I’d put in my own people, people that knew what we’re doing. But that’s what we learn! We learn those lessons the hard way! There’s a lot of shoulda, coulda, woulda, but I don’t regret doing it.”
I can still see why it was attractive. In the States, Mike Piazza is a former great. A legend. In Reggio Emilia, with Reggiana, his role was active. Running a soccer team in Italy: It really is a romantic idea. He wasn’t simply a rich guy drinking wine on an endless vineyard tour. He wasn’t merely eating incredible food or lounging in a seaside cabana. He was living. He had an identity beyond his days of baseball, which by now are well behind him. “I need to have a project,” he once told Kondratenko. “I don’t want to just play golf all the time.”
I can also see why Alicia wanted out: She never wanted in. “I’m free,” she told me. Instead of sinking more of the family’s cash into a soccer team, they can spend that money weekending in Barcelona, or how about London? “My kids will be fluent in Italian and maybe also French,” she said. “I’m happy.” She didn’t want the soccer project the way Mike wanted it. But then, she’s never hit a home run in front of 43,000 people.
The Piazzas returned to Italy in late August. “I’m surprised they did this,” says Gian Marco Regnani, a calcio blogger in Reggio Emilia. “They’re the enemy.” The family rented the same villa outside of town from when they owned the team. Recently they moved closer to Parma, where the kids go to school. The Piazzas told me their status as outsiders might have been a central problem. They had the ability to pack up and fly away, while for everyone else Reggio Emilia is home.
“I always had a feeling that they were going to leave,” says Regnani. “I never thought they were going to be here forever.”
When I spoke with the Piazzas in Miami, Mike was careful to stress that he had not bankrupted Reggiana. He and Alicia were “dissolving” the club, he said. They were “executing a soft landing.” But they didn’t “bankrupt” a 100-year-old soccer team and civic institution, he insisted.
That was in August. On December 4th, the Piazzas asked a judge to declare the club bankrupt. On December 5th, the judge granted the request. More than 100 creditors, including Mapei, are currently carving up the Reggiana carcass.
In October, Mike flew to Scotland for a week on the Old Course at St. Andrews. In November, he posted a picture from a golf course in Tuscany.
I’ve spoken to him a couple times, at length, since he returned to Italy. The last time we talked, we discussed Reggiana for a while, naturally, but the team and its problems and his brief time running the club seemed like a closed chapter. We talked about Donald Trump and how being an American abroad has given Piazza a wider perspective on immigration. We talked about the Mets for a bit. He told me he’s started getting into rugby on TV. And also Formula 1. He said he doesn’t like to watch Italian soccer anymore. Not even Serie A. “I just don’t,” he said. “Or I think I’m just too hurt to care.”
the wife's quotes are completely out of control
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 19 December 2018 03:37 (five years ago) link
lmao i can hear her
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 03:50 (five years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 19 December 2018 04:42 (five years ago) link
Toggle navigation NBA GIVE A GIFTMY TEAMS CITIES NHL MLB NFL NBA CFB CBB SOCCER FANTASY WNBA MMA VIDEO PODCASTS • • •‘The board man gets paid’: An oral history of Kawhi Leonard’s college days
By Jayson Jenks 42 This is my new favorite quote: “The board man gets paid.”
According to former teammates, coaches and managers, Kawhi Leonard didn’t say much during his two seasons (2009-11) at San Diego State. But he did say that, all the time, and it is wonderful: “The board man gets paid.” It says so much about who Leonard was and still is, and it absolutely belongs on a T-shirt.
This is the story about his two years at San Diego State, during which the Aztecs went 59-12 and made the NCAA Tournament both seasons under coach Steve Fisher.
Tim Shelton, forward: He was probably one of the hardest recruits that you’d ever deal with who was that talented. (California’s Mr. Basketball in 2009.) He wasn’t going to text you, he wasn’t going to pick up the phone and talk to you. He just wouldn’t do it.
Justin Hutson, assistant coach: I wouldn’t say hard. I would say different. You couldn’t get him on the phone. Once a week, I’d just have to go up there to his high school (100 miles away in Riverside, Calif.), and I’d make sure he was there first.
Shelton: And it’s part of why the Pac-12 teams didn’t put in extra effort. They were like, “He’s kind of a four-man, and, shoot, we can’t call him and talk to him. He must not want to talk to us.”
DJ Gay, guard: I took Kawhi on his official visit. Honestly, the only thing he wanted to do was get in the gym. We were like, “Kawhi, what do you want to do?” And he was like, “Let’s go work out. Let’s go get some shots up. Let’s play.”
Shelton: We had open gym and were playing. We stopped in between games and introduced ourselves as a team and just chopped it up a little bit more with his mom than him. He introduced himself, “I’m Kawhi. Hey, what’s up.” But if you tried to talk to him, he was like, “It’s cool, everything’s cool, so far it’s cool, it’s nice.” But then he just grabbed the ball and went to shoot. Even during his visit, I’m telling you.
Gay: I think we started up our day playing two-on-two and finished our day getting shots up. That’s just what he wanted to do. He wanted to work. I honestly had no idea what to expect when he left. He didn’t say much. He just wanted to hoop. I had no idea if we were getting him or not. I told coach Fisher: “I’m sorry, I don’t know what to tell you. He didn’t say much.”
Dave Velasquez, assistant coach: My favorite story about Kawhi is when he got to San Diego State his freshman year. He had a math class at 8 a.m. and a writing class at 10 a.m. It was Monday through Thursday, and it was really tough. Our job was to make sure the freshmen were up for that 8 a.m. class. So we were always knocking on their dorm room at 7:30. When we had to find Kawhi for his 8 a.m. class, he was rebounding by himself.
Gay: By far the hardest worker I’ve ever come across, I’ve ever known.
Alex Jamerson, manager: I’ve never seen anyone, ever, work harder in my whole life.
Jamerson: I would show up early to our arena to get things set up for practice. I’m thinking, “Oh, I’m going to be the first guy in the arena just to get things set up,” and I walk out to bring the balls out and he’s already got one or two with him shooting in the dark in the arena. All by himself.
John Van Houten, manager: We used to have to break into the volleyball gym.
Shelton: This was before they had all these swipe cards. We had just one key that we would share to get into that gym. When you didn’t have the key available, you could put the finger under the door at Peterson Gym, and if you knew how to wiggle it right, you could push the latch up and unlock the door.
Van Houten: At first, you could get in and you had access to the lights, you had access to the hoops and everything was good. And then they started cracking down, so we started breaking in, but the lightbox would be locked.
Shelton: So Kawhi had a lamp, and on different occasions, Kawhi would be in there late and the lightbox would be locked, so he’d bring a lamp in there. He’d put his finger under the door and unlatch it and he’d go in there and shoot with just his lamp.
Van Houten: And that’s when they got a new locking mechanism on the doors. And that’s when I got a key to an LDS church, a Mormon church, and they had a full court. … He was gonna find a way to work.
Jason Deutchman, guard: We lost in the first round of the NCAA Tournament my senior year on a Thursday. I took the rest of the weekend off and then I was like, “I’m going to go start training on that Monday.” I remember going in that very first night, three days after we had lost — and he was already there.
Coach Velasquez: We had Saturday morning conditioning, so not only would he be running hard and be in the front, but everybody else would go home after. He would go to the gym.
Gay: There were several times I tried beating him in the gym, but no matter how early I got there, he was already there. Or I tried to stay late, but it got to the point that I just couldn’t do it anymore.
Coach Hutson: Knowing Kawhi, he probably just stayed until somebody left. I’m serious.
(Chris Carlson / AP)Gay: The most he talked was on the hard court, and Kawhi was not afraid to let you know that you weren’t going to score on him, that you couldn’t get past him or that he would score on you. Every time the ball went through the net, he just said, “Bucket. Bucket.” That was it.
Tyrone Shelley, guard: Most people say it like, “Oh, I’m about to get buckets on you.” He was just like, “Buckets. Layup.” Just one word.
Shelton: He’d be like, “You’re not scoring. You’re not doing anything.” Or he’d be like, “No, no, no.” He’d just move his feet and say, “No.”
Gay: You couldn’t score on him, so that’s what he would say: “Nope, nope, nope.” And when he would score on you: “Bucket. Bucket.”
LaBradford Franklin, guard: If he was grabbing a rebound, he’d say, “Give me that” or “Board man” or “Board man gets paid.”
Coach Hutson: If I heard it once, I heard it 50 times. “Board man. I’m a board man.” That’s what he said. Absolutely. “I’m a board man. Yeah, I’m a board man. Board man gets paid.” He spoke in phrases like that.
Shelley: Instead of saying, “We need to walk to the store” or “Let’s go to the store,” he’d just say, “I’m up.” When he leaves, he just says, “I’m up.”
Shelton: If he joked, it would be like one or two comments, and he’d go like, “Yeeee.” He’d make more sounds than he actually talked.
Franklin: What stood out to me about Kawhi was everyone else wanted to score or shoot threes, but he wanted to get every rebound. And one of the quotes he always said was, “Board man gets paid.” The rebounder man, he gets paid. And it’s true. He would say that every day. He would take pride in that. If you think about it, defense and rebounding, those are the two things you might not want to do. That’s not the pretty stuff. But he took pride in that. He cared. (And led the Mountain West Conference in rebounding two years in a row.)
Shelton: Guys coming from high school have trouble with help-side defense. Kawhi made a comment to coach Hutson, who was the defensive coach at the time, and he was like, “I don’t get it, coach. Why can’t they just stay in front of their man like I do? Like, why do I have to play help side?” That was his only comment I ever heard him make about defense: “They should just be able to stay in front of their man like I do.”
Coach Hutson: We would talk about rotations and how to help. I would get him on it about. He was respectful, but he would be very frustrated and say, “Why can’t everybody just guard their own man?” Those were exactly his words. “Why can’t everybody just guard their own man?”
Kelvin Davis, guard: In his mind, everyone should be doing what he was doing. But he didn’t realize everybody couldn’t do what he did. He was a walking nightmare.
Gay: In practice, he would tell us, “Don’t help, I don’t need help, I got it, I don’t need help.” That’s just how he was. That was his mentality. “I don’t need help; why do you need help?” But then it made us better because it challenged us: If Kawhi doesn’t need help, I don’t need help, either. And we turned out to be one of the best defensive teams in all of America that year.
Shelton: He didn’t say much. But he would tell you if you were fouling him in practice. He’d be like, “They fouling me, coach.”
Coach Velasquez: There’s one thing we always laugh about as a staff, and it would always happen at practice. He would drive in there, and he’s big and people would be hitting him all the time. At practice, you don’t really call that. I can’t tell you how many times he would look over and go, “But they fouling me. But they fouling me.”
“Kawhi, you’ve got to kick that.”
“But they fouling me.” It was over and over. In games, he wouldn’t really have a lot of dialogue with refs, but you’d definitely hear, “but they fouling me,” two or three times a game.
Shelley: There was no backtalk. Unless he was getting fouled.
Coach Hutson: There was a certain time I wanted everybody to lock and trail in practice. I was very clear that there are times you don’t have to trail on the baseline; there are times you can cheat the screen and shortcut and get there. But right now we’re going to work on lock and trailing. I was very clear that this was the way we were going to do it. And I remember Kawhi just takes his own route. I made everybody run, and he was upset about it. He was definitely pissed about it. A man of few words, but every once in a while he said something.
Van Houten: The coolest part about Kawhi: He plays mini hoop. In every house I’ve ever been to, he always had a mini hoop. You can only play with your left hand. You can’t play with your right hand. That’s a really cool thing because he’s working on his game even when he’s just at the house.
Franklin: He had a Nerf goal on the back of the door in his apartment, and he would just shoot. Friends would come over, playing 2K, and he would challenge us to a free-throw contest.
Van Houten: He’d come over to my house and he’d watch Michael Jordan highlights. We called them “Mike highs” … I mean, like four or five hours at a time.
Coach Velasquez: We’d be done with the game and he’d be on his phone watching Jordan on YouTube. Right away. He wasn’t texting. He was watching Jordan on YouTube. He’d watch it all day, every day.
Shelton: You would see him watching that stuff. But he still wouldn’t talk about it.
Coach Velasquez: Coach Fisher had a no-cellphone policy at team dinners, but Kawhi would have his phone on his lap watching Jordan highlights. He would really study his moves.
Franklin: On his phone, his background was Michael Jordan. … He would always say, “I’m Mike. You like LeBron, you like Kobe? Yeah, they’re cool, but I’m Mike. I want to be the best, the greatest.” And from how he carried himself, we knew he was serious. We knew that’s what he really wanted.
(Lenny Ignelzi / AP)Van Houten: The only thing we’d give him shit for was his hands. Like, “Damn, you make that iPhone plus look like an iPhone 5.” Or like, “Damn, it should be a cheat code to play with those hands.”
Deutchman: There were definitely a few jokes about self-pleasure techniques. (His hands) could be helpful or harmful, depending on your perspective. With those, he could probably do a lot more damage with yourself if you get a little too much into it, considering the size of your hands.
Franklin: I’d always get on him about his braids. Like after a practice or after a long road trip, we’re all sweating, and it would look like he just got out of bed with his hair. But he didn’t care at all.
Gay: I used to call him an Avatar. A freakish Avatar, that’s what he was in college. Long limbs, long body, could run like the wind.
Franklin: From what I can remember, if it wasn’t Michael Jordan highlights, he was watching an episode of the Martin Lawrence show. He could be entertained with that. He’s so low-maintenance. Low maintenance, high production.
Shelley: I don’t remember him going to any parties except for one, and he was just kind of off in the corner hanging out until we left.
Shelton: He would be with the team and kick it and party a little bit because it was San Diego and we were winning. But he’d still be the first person up, and he’d be in the gym shooting.
Gay: I used to tell him that I had an unblockable step-back. It took him a while, but he finally started blocking my step-back. And that’s when I was like, “This is just ridiculous.” I was just like, “Yeah, my time is over.”
Coach Velasquez: I’ll never forget when we played at Cal. He remembered that Cal didn’t think he was good enough. He heard that the head coach at the time, Mike Montgomery, didn’t think he was good enough. He made it his personal mission to go out there and want to destroy Cal. They had a really good team. Allen Crabbe was there. They had a squad. But Kawhi went up there at Cal, and you knew when he walked on the floor that game, they had no chance. It was ridiculous.
Shelton: We played at Fresno State against Paul George, and that was when Paul George was getting some hype. I remember Kawhi watching his clips and us doing the scouting report. Now, he never said anything that he was going to lock him up or that he wasn’t any good. He was just like, “OK.”
Franklin: We were playing against Jimmer and BYU in the tournament. He screamed to coach Fisher, “Let me guard him.” At that time, Jimmer was killing everybody in the country. He was Jimmer Fredette. Kawhi had no business taking that challenge or saying that he was better than Jimmer then, but he did it.
Coach Velasquez: (Coach Fisher) would always say, “Kawhi paid the bills.” Kawhi rebounded. Kawhi was the best defender on the floor. Kawhi ran the hardest in transition. Kawhi always did all the little things that helped your team win.
Shelton: He says the most by his actions. He’s probably the only person that I know, that I’ve met, that I’ve seen, that speaks that loudly through his actions. People are like, “Kawhi’s quiet.” I’m like, “No, he’s not. Have you seen him work? Have you seen the dude work out? Do you know what his routine is over the summer?”
Van Houten: He always found a way. If he wants to become the greatest, he’s going to find a way. If he wants to get in a gym and work out, he’s going to find a way.
Franklin: To this day, I apply everything I learned from him. He was the hardest worker. While we were going to class, he would hold his couple papers for the class in his hand and in his backpack he had his sports gear: his shoes, the ball. He was always in the gym. At night, in the day. You could definitely learn from him. That work ethic can be applied to anything. That was the most craziest thing I saw.
Coach Hutson: I was fortunate enough to be around a genius. He had a genius work ethic.
(Top photo: Harry How / Getty Images)
What did you think of this story?
MEH
SOLID
AWESOMEJayson Jenks is a features writer for the Athletic Seattle. Jayson joined The Athletic after covering the Seahawks for four seasons for the Seattle Times. Follow Jayson on Twitter @JaysonJenks.42 COMMENTSAdd a comment...Anmol K.Jun 3, 11:25am12 likesKawhi is a future HoF.Rick M.Jun 3, 11:38am38 likesWow what an awesome story. I can’t recall ESPN ever doing a story like this. I want someone in the media to ask Kawhi about “The Board Man Gets Paid!”Breanna S.Jun 3, 11:59am21 likesHe's like Kobe with a Tim Duncan personality.J S.Jun 3, 1:25pm15 likesTim Duncan seems normal by comparisonFrankie C.23h ago6 likesHe's better than Kobe, thoughScott E.19h agoTim Duncan would never have exited San Antonio the way Kawhi did.
Keep in mind I mostly sided with Kawhi. But still.Nick Z.Jun 3, 12:00pm3 likesA+ effortBaskar G.Jun 3, 12:08pm4 likesMad geniusPaul D.Jun 3, 12:40pm9 likesAs a former basketball Aztec myself, I am so proud of Kawhi. His game is beautiful.Ansar H.Jun 3, 12:47pm5 likesOmg what a story - the board man gets paid!!!!!!!!Marcus G.Jun 3, 1:14pm8 likes"If he joked, it would be like one or two comments, and he’d go like, “Yeeee.” He’d make more sounds than he actually talked."
Kawhi is a living, breathing memeMyles S.Jun 3, 1:35pm31 likesThese oral history pieces are probably my favorite feature The Athletic does.Greg B.Jun 3, 2:02pm1 like@Myles S. Totally. More please.Ned R.Jun 3, 1:46pm2 likesGreat story with insight into Kawhi.Beta 3.Jun 3, 2:13pm3 likesFantastic work Jayson. What an interesting read.Emet L.Jun 3, 2:14pm8 likesI still can’t get over Dame Lillard using his friend’s Netflix account when he was in the NBADavid R.Jun 3, 2:19pm5 likesThis is one of the most hilarious and revealing stories I’ve read about a basketball player. Kawhi is such an enigma, and I felt like I had no idea what made him tick, but this story really opens a door on him. Very impressive guy. I was at that Cal game and I remember him wrecking us. I only hope the dubs find a way to stop him because his inner determination is obviously EPIC.Jordan T.Jun 3, 2:41pm2 likesKawhi is deadass the Terminator lolMark G.23h ago1 likeNeeded this insight into Kawhi...good story!Adam A.23h ago1 likeWish I started at SDSU in 2010 instead of 2011 so I could watch kawhiKenneth C.23h ago6 likesThe NBA can definitely benefit from more guys like Kawhi who just walks the walk. The league is filled with prima donnas that put their personal agendas before team goals. They can say they care about winning more than anything else but what they care is how much it goes in their pockets.Seth F.23h ago2 likesIn terms of body control and the ability to be a dominant (and game altering) force on defense, I absolutely feel he’s Jordan-esque. Also ‘Board Man Gets Paid’ shirts on Breaking T in 3...2.....Frankie C.23h ago5 likesI honestly cannot believe that nobody really talked about this guy in college. It's not like he was just ok, and would be a solid role player, or was at a mid major and barely played against good teams. SDSU was a legit top 10-15 team those 2 years & they were beating good squads, yet we heard more about Fischer, because he also coached the Fab 5, than we did about Kawhi. How crazy is that?Alex N.19h ago@Frankie C. That 2010-11 team was pretty stacked. Lot of good seniors on that squad that went on to have pro careers overseas. They definitely had the talent to go all the way that year.Adam G.23h ago2 likes"Why can't they just guard their man like I do?" Hahaha, made me laugh. I know that feeling, but on a much, much muuuuuuch smaller scale at work.Colin G.23h ago6 likesI thought it would be impossible for me to like Kawhi after he killed my Sixers, but you gotta respect him after reading a story like this.Norman L.23h ago5 likesThis article is everything. What an absolute joy to read.Cheers,Zaid T.23h ago2 likesThe “board man gets paid” motto really showed last night vs GSW. Plenty of possessions where he recovered an offensive rebound.
Good to know!Alex C.23h ago7 likesAs a special education teacher, I wholeheartedly believe that Kawhi is a little autistic or something, which is really really cool. I'd love for him to open up and hear more of his story.Jeremy G.13h ago3 likesI came here to say, this article makes me wonder if Kawhi is on the spectrum. Barely talks, extremely insanely focused, repeats the same habits over and over, makes more sounds than words.Young K.21h ago1 likeWhat a killer robot Kawhi is!Forrest B.20h agoWow, what this article shows me is how well researched the clippers are with Kawhi. This year they've talked about being a black top team, a team that works, a team that doesn't want drama, Doc comparing Kawhi to Jordan. It's crazy.Dan M.12h agoIf the Clips get Kawhi and KD ... gulp. Dynasty probably over in the Bay.Jeff J.18h ago2 likesAs an SDSU grad I feel so blessed and proud of guys like Kawhi because San Diego State will never be a power 5 school where these kinds of guys are on a regular basis. There are a lot of very good players in lots of sports to come out of SDSU, Kawhi, Tony Gwynn, Marshall Faulk, and it feels good to in some small way be a part of that.Gary F.15h agoHe seems like a genuinely nice guy. Very easy to hang out withWill O.12h agoKAWHI SO SERIOUS?!Danny M.12h agoI watched him at SDSU. That 34-3 team was so good and I was bummed that he left after the 2011 season because I really thought they had a very good chance to win the NCAA tourney. That said, I’ve followed his NBA career and hope him continues to work hard and win more titles. He’s the reason I watch pro basketball again. Thanks KL.Dan M.12h ago1 likeMan oh man. What a great story. I am an Aztec alum ... and a life long Warrior fan ... talk about being conflicted.
What I can say, is that Aztecs love Kawhi. LOVE HIM.
There’s a whole lot of pride, and happiness, for all his success.
There is tremendous gratitude to him- during his sophomore (last) season on The Mesa, we had the greatest team we had ever had, and likely ever will, have.
It was like we were Duke, North Carolina or Kansas for a season. I really believe we were one of the 2-3 best teams in the nation that season - we grabbed the highest #2 seed in the tournament that season, so they had us as #5 overall going in. We won our first 2 games in tournament history, I was blessed to be in Tucson for both. I was “fighting them back” as the clock ran out to beat Temple to go to our first sweet 16.
We lost to eventual national champion UConn the next week, some very questionable calls in an incredible game that went down to the final possession. I have no doubt we clobber Arizona the next game, as UConn did, to go to our first and only Final 4. So close.
Kawhi was the difference. Even though he was so raw, could barely shoot a lick... I had never seen such a force of nature before, his effort, his attitude, his intense desire to win. An absolute demon on the boards and defensively. He was surrounded by an incredibly long, athletic, talented team that defended as well as just about any team I’ve ever seen in college basketball. What a incredible season that really put SDSU on the national basketball map for a run of 4-5 years.
Of course, despite Aztec nation’s claimed that he wasn’t ready to come out for the draft. Needed one more season in college. He thought differently. We all know how that has turned out. Nobody was going to deny Kawhi.
There are some incredible Kawhi stories I’ve read and heard about him that speak to his ridiculous work ethic, his focus and single-mindedness to be the best, and a spotlight on what he cares about- his mom, his close friends and family ... and basketball.
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 17:52 (four years ago) link
I wish that Paul George anecdote had gone somewhere
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 21:13 (four years ago) link
A guy I did community service with smoked a blunt with Kawhi in college
― brimstead, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 21:56 (four years ago) link
Oh man, I thought the "yeeeee" anecdote posted in the Finals thread was a joke. What a guy!
― Fetchboy, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 00:59 (four years ago) link
Alex C.23h ago7 likesAs a special education teacher, I wholeheartedly believe that Kawhi is a little autistic or something, which is really really cool. I'd love for him to open up and hear more of his story.
im not comfortable diagnosing ppl but there is something to this.
― be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:43 (four years ago) link
his flat affect, difficulty reading social cues, intense interests, repetitive behaviors
― be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:46 (four years ago) link
had that exact thought when i read this
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:52 (four years ago) link
same over here tbh
― Clay, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 02:04 (four years ago) link
This oral history of college Kawhi is crazier than people think... pic.twitter.com/FUyiOIQYjE— Amir Blumenfeld (@jakeandamir) June 4, 2019
― Jeff Bathos (symsymsym), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 02:33 (four years ago) link
the family business stuff makes a lot of sense in that context, too.
honestly i feel bad making/laughing at jokes around his behavior (kawhi is a robot/the terminator, the laugh meme) now.
― be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 02:41 (four years ago) link
re: the family business and the initial tweet you copied, i was like--hard for him to open up about anything since it's very unlikely that he's diagnosed.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 02:49 (four years ago) link
yeah that too
― be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 03:11 (four years ago) link
― brimstead, Tuesday, June 4, 2019 5:56 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
siick
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 06:24 (four years ago) link
― be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Tuesday, June 4, 2019 9:46 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah i mean
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 06:25 (four years ago) link
I have no idea if he autistic but it's interesting how in different ways some great players today are upending traditional views of the "mentality" that was assumed you need to be great, basically like the sports talk guys that jack off over the MJ/Kobe aggressive, macho sociopathy (Butler is maybe the best example of that today tho not on the same level of great)....but Kawhi's remote, flat aspect or the Curry/Klay's semi woke chill Cali vibes....or, less appealingly, KD or Kyrie's passive aggressive needy bitchiness
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 13:03 (four years ago) link
otm
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 14:06 (four years ago) link
like so many things, after 1 person dominates a field (in reality or just in public's consciousness of that field) you get this hindsight "ohh THIS is what made him/her so great" which is prob ok on its own but there's a tendency to draw the conclusion "therefore anyone who wants to dominate in the future must have this same quality/set of qualities"
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 19:07 (four years ago) link
anyone have a WSJ membership?https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nba-finals-have-never-seen-a-coach-like-nick-nurse-11559905200
― easy ball shooter (Spottie), Friday, 7 June 2019 15:37 (four years ago) link
(i don't have a membership, but https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-firefox and/or https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome seem to work)
OAKLAND, Calif. — The easiest way to understand the differences between the coaches of the two best teams in the NBA is through Dennis Rodman.
Golden State Warriors coach Steve Kerr played with Rodman on the Chicago Bulls in the 1990s. They won three NBA championships together. They also happened to be teammates with Michael Jordan.
Toronto Raptors coach Nick Nurse came to know Rodman as the owner, general manager and coach of the Brighton Bears of the British Basketball League when he signed him as a one-game publicity stunt to sell tickets for a team that’s now defunct.
So they have taken slightly different roads to the NBA Finals. But now the Raptors are two wins from the title. That’s how close Nurse is to being maybe the most improbable coach of any championship team in NBA history.
The people in his position are usually longtime NBA coaches, former NBA players or both. Nurse is neither.
He’s a first-year NBA head coach at the age of 51. He spent his formative years in a country where basketball is a niche sport compared to snooker. He is the author of a self-published manual called “The Black Book of Shooting.” He is the guy who brings his guitar on road trips to strum Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan. Nurse has been creative and inventive during the Finals, and that’s in part because of his peripatetic background.
Nurse is both a rookie coach and someone who’s been a coach for nearly 30 years. He coached a college team below the NCAA level. He coached G-League teams in Des Moines, Iowa and Edinburg, Texas. He even coached in the obscure breeding ground of basketball talent known as Great Britain.
His list of coaching stops reads like a British train schedule: Derby and Birmingham—neither of which is pronounced the way you think—Manchester, Brighton and London. Nurse was in the British Basketball League, which sounds like an oxymoron, more than twice as long as he’s been in the NBA. And he’s done crazier things than beating the Warriors. The year he took a BBL team to the EuroLeague was the equivalent of Nurse coaching the Raptors to the Stanley Cup.
But all that experience in what Nurse acknowledges were some “pretty remote places” has proven to be incredibly useful now.
“I feel really comfortable out there,” he said in an interview this season. “I’m digging back into some archives. It’s playing out on an NBA court: things that I’ve gone through hundreds of times before.”
When he unleashed an unconventional box-and-one defense on Stephen Curry in the NBA Finals, for example, people around the league struggled to remember the last time they’d seen one. Apparently they had not seen a G-League game between the Iowa Energy and Bakersfield Jam in January 2011.
Nurse was desperate that night. Bakersfield guard Trey Johnson had torched Iowa for 31 points the night before, and Nurse decided to do everything in his power to make sure it wouldn’t happen again. The strategy that he unveiled to stop him? A box-and-one for the entire game. He treated Trey Johnson as if he were Stephen Curry. Johnson had his worst scoring performance of the season. Iowa won. Nurse’s idea worked.
“If things work,” he said, “I don’t care if I go out there and four guys stand on their head.”
That game was a long time ago in a place very far away from the NBA Finals. But in an interview before Game 4, Nurse still remembered everything about it.
“That’s right! Big-time box-and-one on Trey for the whole game,” Nurse said. “That was a great win. That was one of the greatest wins.”
Nurse landed across the pond after two years as an assistant at South Dakota and four years as a starter at Northern Iowa, where he boasted about holding “seven school records all under the three-point shooting category.” As a coach, he realized his teams could learn from his shooting prowess. So he produced a 31-page, spiral-bound manual that explained his art in exhaustive detail. There were even bullet-pointed lists of drills in which every bullet was a tiny basketball.
“Everyone knows that good shooting in basketball is important,” wrote Nick Nurse, the author.
Another thing in basketball that he knew was important was the ability to adapt on the fly. And the insane format of the BBL playoffs gave Nurse plenty of experience preparing teams to radically shift course on a nightly basis. He once turned the Birmingham Bullets from a fast-break team into a slow-down offense in the hours between a Saturday evening semi and a Sunday afternoon final. His players had no problem with it. They promptly knocked off the mighty London Towers. “He used to do all of his coaching before we stepped out on the court,” the Bullets’ Clive Allen said.
Nurse’s teams traveled in mini-buses that he didn’t have the proper license to drive. His experiments unfolded in local rec centers where he waited for badminton matches and indoor soccer to finish before taking the court. And not wasting a second was so crucial that Nurse fined anyone who was late £1 a minute. This bothered Allen so much that he once paid for his 20-minute delay in pennies.
When those practices finally began, Nurse was always keeping score. If he was displeased with the shooting, he subbed himself in and started draining threes. If he thought his players weren’t intense enough, he subbed himself in and started fouling.
He was determined to not let his complete lack of resources stop him from implementing NBA strategies. Nurse modeled the Birmingham Bullets on whatever VHS tapes he could find of the mid-1990s Chicago Bulls. They were watching film with occasional cameos from Steve Kerr.
“When Phil Jackson was doing his thing with the triangle offense,” said Nigel Lloyd, one of his former players, “we ran the triangle offense.”As coach of the Iowa Energy in 2011, Nick Nurse used a box-and-one defense against the Bakersfield Jam. Photo: Otto Kitsinger/NBAE/Getty Images
With the Brighton Bears, where he was also the owner and general manager, Nurse found someone else who knew Jackson’s offense intimately. This person had actually played in Jackson’s offense. His name was Dennis Rodman.
Rodman was coming off an appearance on the reality show “Celebrity Big Brother” and wasn’t exactly in peak shape. He was 44. He hadn’t played in the NBA for years. He’d spent the past few weeks smoking cigars. He was also Nurse’s opportunity to sell extra tickets while improving his offense.
Rodman arrived in a white limo and delayed the game by insisting on taking a shower. The ticket part of Nurse’s plan worked: the tiny arena was sold out. The offense also worked, as Rodman helped the Bears beat the Guildford Heat. What didn’t work was the whole part about following BBL rules. Nurse’s team had to forfeit a week later for playing too many Americans.
“Whilst the BBL were delighted to see that Dennis Rodman took part in BBL Competitions and that U.K. fans have had the opportunity to see him play,” the league said, “they will not tolerate a clear breach of BBL Regulations.”
Nurse’s time in a country that has never been confused for a basketball hotbed keeps coming back to him. He even took his son to his old stomping grounds last summer. They saw the Rolling Stones at Old Trafford and went to “King Lear” at the Royal Shakespeare Theatre. “We covered about 360 years of British culture in 48 hours,” he said.
But he would soon experience one last bit of whiplash. When the Nurses came back to North America, the Raptors announced their new head coach: the world’s leading expert on British basketball.
Write to Ben Cohen at b✧✧.co✧✧✧@w✧✧.c✧✧ and Joshua Robinson at jos✧✧✧.robin✧✧✧@w✧✧.c✧✧
― mookieproof, Friday, 7 June 2019 15:48 (four years ago) link
cool thanks!
― easy ball shooter (Spottie), Friday, 7 June 2019 15:56 (four years ago) link
dang sick extension
― lag∞n, Friday, 7 June 2019 16:05 (four years ago) link
anybody got that ESPN+ and could hook this up?https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/26970552/klay-thompson-injury-force-warriors-rethink-next-season
― big city slam (Spottie), Friday, 14 June 2019 20:58 (four years ago) link
Kevin PeltonESPN Staff WriterFacebookTwitterFacebook MessengerPinterestEmailprintWhat does Klay Thompson's ACL injury mean for his future and the Golden State Warriors?
The disappointment of the Warriors falling short in their quest for a third consecutive championship was overshadowed by the news late Thursday night that Thompson tore the ACL in his left knee when he landed awkwardly after being fouled on a transition dunk attempt.
Thompson will now head into unrestricted free agency for the first time in his career while rehabbing the injury and facing an uncertain timeline for his return during the 2019-20 season, much like teammate Kevin Durant, who suffered a ruptured Achilles during Game 5 of the NBA Finals. How will that impact Thompson and how can Golden State replace him in the short term?
How much time can Thompson be expected to miss?Though Durant's Achilles injury produces greater fear than the relatively more common ACL tear, the reality is ACL rehab has typically taken longer in recent years. As teams have become more conservative bringing their players back after surgery, no NBA player has returned to action in fewer than 10 ½ months since J.J. Hickson in 2014. (Hickson returned after just 7 ½ months.)
What top Anthony Davis trade contenders can actually offer
Six big Anthony Davis trades we'd like to seeAn 11-month timetable has been typical for ACL injuries in that span, with some rehab processes taking even longer. Most notably, Kristaps Porzingis ended up missing the entire 2018-19 season after tearing his ACL in February 2018, meaning he wasn't considered ready to return some 14 months after the injury.
With that in mind, the Warriors -- or another team with whom Thompson signs -- have to be prepared for him to miss the duration of the 2019-20 regular season before potentially attempting to return in the playoffs.
How does that affect Thompson's free agency?Unlike Durant, Thompson does not have a player option, meaning he's headed for free agency this summer no matter what. Although Thompson's maximum salary is less than Durant's -- he's still in the bracket for players with 7-9 years of experience, projected for a 2019-20 maximum of $32.7 million as compared to $38.15 million for players like Durant with 10 or more years of experience -- a max deal for him surely carries somewhat more risk because Thompson has not historically been as elite a player as Durant.
Thompson's best leverage in free agency is his importance to Golden State, which would be shy of max-level cap space even in the unlikely scenario where both Durant and Thompson sign elsewhere. That would make it virtually impossible for the Warriors to replace both players in free agency. Given everything Thompson has meant to Golden State's run of three championships in five consecutive trips to the NBA Finals, it seems unthinkable the Warriors would risk letting him walk in free agency.
One possibility is Golden State offering Thompson a five-year max deal that no other team could match, but with some partial guarantees that would offer the Warriors cap relief in a worst-case scenario should Thompson deal with more injuries in the future. Joel Embiid's 2017 extension with the Philadelphia 76ers could be a model for such an offer.
How might Golden State replace Thompson?One way or another, the Warriors will find themselves needing to fill in for Thompson and Durant in 2019-20 -- perhaps for just a single season (or part of it), but perhaps permanently if either or both players head elsewhere.
NBA Free Agency and Trades
Find everything you need to know about the latest free agency and trade news.
• All the latest news, buzz and rumors• Sources: C's, Lakers each talking AD deal• Six big Davis trades we'd like to seeInsider• KD's options, and what they mean for GSInsider• Trade tracker: Grading the deals• Offseason guides for all 30 teamsInsider
Assuming Thompson re-signs, Golden State would likely be limited to the taxpayer midlevel exception (projected at $5.7 million) to add free agents for more than the veterans minimum. And the Warriors would somehow need to find new starters at both shooting guard and small forward -- or at least someone capable of playing big minutes at small forward if veteran Andre Iguodala starts there, given Iguodala's age.
If Durant signs elsewhere, Thompson's injury could add urgency to Golden State's pursuit of a sign-and-trade deal that would create a trade exception in the amount of Durant's 2019-20 salary to trade for more expensive players. Convincing the team that lands Durant to do a sign-and-trade rather than signing him outright using cap space would probably require the Warriors parting with draft picks, something they've been reluctant to do during their championship run.
Alternatively, I suppose it's possible that Golden State might look at next season as a one-year break from the emotionally and physically draining pursuit of championships. The Warriors could regroup in 2020-21 with Thompson and/or Durant back on the court, hoping to use next season to develop younger alternatives such as 2018 first-round pick Jacob Evans and reserve Alfonzo McKinnie for depth purposes.
But that prospect seems unlikely with the core of the team save Draymond Green (29) in their 30s. Each year of late-prime Stephen Curry is too valuable to let go to waste. A step-back season also would be a tough way to open a pricey new arena in San Francisco.
Adding salary via a Durant sign-and-trade would hit Golden State's pocketbook hard, what with the team potentially entering the repeater tax next season. That means that each additional dollar the Warriors spend would cost a minimum of $2.50 more in luxury taxes. That's the price the Warriors have to pay to keep this championship core together, though their move to the more profitable Chase Center will help offset the tax bill.
Golden State's front office won't have much time to lament the NBA Finals loss and heartbreaking injuries to Durant and Thompson. With the NBA draft a week away and free agency a week and a half after that, the Warriors must soon get to work figuring out how to replace two of the league's best players.
― lag∞n, Friday, 14 June 2019 21:52 (four years ago) link
― big city slam (Spottie), Friday, 14 June 2019 22:48 (four years ago) link
Can i get a c+p here plz?https://theathletic.com/1029629/2019/06/15/their-longtime-trade-target-has-gone-elsewhere-so-what-do-the-celtics-do-now/
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 16 June 2019 21:40 (four years ago) link
After years of meticulous planning, calculated maneuvers and intelligent team-building, a steady stream of frustrations over the past year has now pushed the Celtics into an offseason of deep uncertainty. The latest setback struck Saturday night, when the Lakers reached a trade agreement to acquire Anthony Davis for Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart and three first-round picks, including the fourth overall selection in next week’s draft. Boston had positioned itself to pursue Davis over the past several years but now must move on to the reality that the superstar center will play alongside LeBron James instead.
Could the Celtics have topped Los Angeles’ offer? The answer depends on whom you ask. The Lakers surrendered two promising former lottery picks, a solid rotation piece and a whole lot of draft equity. Based on early indications, the Celtics were wary of throwing all their assets – including Jayson Tatum – on the table knowing Davis could be just a one-year rental. His agent, Rich Paul, made it clear throughout the process that his client preferred other destinations such as the Lakers and Knicks and did not want to land in Boston. If the Celtics still had the promise of a future with Kyrie Irving to flaunt, they could have been more willing to roll the dice on Davis, believing that the talent on their roster would eventually help convince him to stay. But recent signs have suggested the Celtics are likely to lose Irving, and selling Davis on the team’s future would have been difficult without the All-Star guard. Giving up a package headlined by Tatum and the future Grizzlies first-round pick could have been franchise-crippling if it only yielded a one-year rental. At some point, the Celtics needed to decide what type of risk they were willing to take. Without Irving, they might not have been able to build a championship-caliber squad even with Davis around.
There’s risk in standing pat, too. In the suddenly wide open NBA landscape, Boston with Davis would have had at least a small chance of raising a banner next season. Now that he’s off the trade market and Irving appears headed elsewhere too, it’s difficult to envision another path for the Celtics to build a legitimate contender quickly. They could pivot toward a youthful rebuild around Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart. They could straddle the present and future while Gordon Hayward and possibly Al Horford remain on the team. They could try to fortify their roster with a non-Davis star – somebody such as Bradley Beal or even an unforeseen option.
Yet nothing stands out as an obvious way to pry open the contention window again. The Celtics still have enough talent to be good – maybe even very good – but this ownership group has always wanted more than that. With a championship-or-bust mindset, the Celtics, without Irving, do not have a championship team. They do have three first-round picks to dangle on the trade market if they want to bolster the roster around their current core.
Will that core include Horford? Though the Celtics have called keeping him a priority, his future now stands out as a question mark. The star center has a $30.1 million player option for the upcoming season but could turn it down and enter free agency. Such a move wouldn’t necessarily spell an end to Horford’s time with the Celtics because he could ink a long-term deal to stay with the organization. But, at age 33, he might realistically find a better opportunity to win a ring somewhere else. Assuming Irving walks, the Celtics would be left with a core of Hayward, Tatum, Brown and Smart – not a bad group by any means, but not what anybody had in mind this time last summer. Boston’s future, though still promising, looks murkier than it has in years.
The list of disappointments from this season alone is a long one:
After entering the season as favorites to capture the Eastern Conference, the Celtics won just 48 games before falling to the Bucks in the second round of the playoffs.Hayward never returned to All-Star form during his first season after a devastating ankle injury. Several of his young teammates – including Tatum, Brown and Terry Rozier – either regressed or failed to show progress amid complicated team dynamics.Players all seemed frustrated by the failure to find consistent chemistry. The coaching staff never maximized the roster’s talent. The season brought enough headaches that Irving, who verbally committed to re-signing in Boston in October, now appears to be a goner.At the onset of this season, the Celtics thought their first-round pick from the Sacramento Kings would land somewhere in the top five. Instead, the Kings exceeded all preseason expectations; the pick they conveyed to Boston landed 14th at the very end of what is considered a thin lottery.The Lakers, meanwhile, were fortunate enough to vault to fourth in the lottery, then used that pick as one of the centerpieces to a Davis trade. How lucky did the Lakers get on lottery night? Their chance of landing a top-four pick was 9.4 percent.So many of the failures are intertwined. The Celtics now must pivot from Plan A – pairing Irving and Davis – to whatever path they will choose next. They should still field a competitive team regardless, just not the annual contender the organization dreamed about building.
One winner in all this is Tatum, who should finally be free from the trade rumors that dogged him over the first two seasons of his career. With no more huge fish left on the trade market, the Celtics should comfortably move forward with the 21-year-old wing as a franchise cornerstone. Tatum has shown immense potential but must iron out some of the bad habits that limited his impact as a second-year pro. He needs to cut out some inefficient midrange jumpers and grow stronger going to the rim. He should work on his 3-point versatility to reach the volume of all the best shooters. He has stated he wants to emerge as an All-Star and now has his chance – in Boston – to show he can do it. If Irving departs, Tatum will have more freedom but also more pressure to emerge alongside Brown as one of the NBA’s top wing duos.
For the Celtics, the future is now. It’s just not exactly the future the organization dreamed of for so many years.
― Jeff Bathos (symsymsym), Sunday, 16 June 2019 23:48 (four years ago) link
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 16 June 2019 23:54 (four years ago) link
can yall pls spot me this piece on goga
https://theathletic.com/1029373/2019/06/20/vecenie-dont-forget-about-goga-bitadze-my-top-international-player-in-the-2019-nba-draft-class/
― micah, Friday, 21 June 2019 10:42 (four years ago) link
Yesterday, a photo Zion Williamson’s media session went viral, with hundreds of media members huddled around his tiny podium. Next to that madhouse, the player with the podium next to Williamson’s looked on in the foreground of the photo, seemingly wondering what kind of world he’d stepped into.
View image on TwitterView image on Twitter
Fletcher Mackel✔@FletcherWDSU NBA draft prospect Gogo Bitazde got slotted next to @Zionwilliamson at @NBA draft media day.
Unfortunately he’s a bit overshadowed.
Gogo actually a guy I’ve heard @PelicansNBA have interest in.
2,04311:52 AM - Jun 19, 2019763 people are talking about thisTwitter Ads info and privacyThat player was Goga Bitadze, an international player from the Republic of Georgia who was also invited to the combine, as he’s expected to be selected somewhere in the top-15. Obviously, I don’t blame anyone in the media for being much more rabid about getting set up for the Williamson media session. Zion is the story this week, and in general, the international class has not been discussed in particularly glowing terms for this year’s crop of prospects.
That’s the narrative, at least. However, I do think this crop of international players has gone underrated. It’s gotten much better throughout the season, and has an interesting mix of production, upside, and fit in the modern NBA. Two players — Goga Bitadze and Sekou Doumbouya — have a chance to be picked in the lottery, with Doumbouya expected to be taken there. Luka Samanic will likely be selected somewhere in the first round, with his range expected to be anywhere from 19 to 35. Deividas Sirvydis could hear his name called in the top-40, with four others in Marcos Louzada Silva (“Didi”), Yovel Zoosman, Adam Mokoka and Joshua Obiesie having a chance to be picked.
While most executives see Doumbouya as the top prospect from the international class, I slightly differ and wanted to write about why. While I think it’s close, I actually give a slight edge to Bitadze as the top international in this class — something I never saw coming when the season started. Bitadze has been something of a known asset for the last few years due to his high-level production in Europe as a teenager. However, I had serious concerns about his frame and mobility then that made me concerned about his modern fit in the NBA. He also played with a high level of emotion that sometimes had negative effects on his play. I had him at No. 44 on my big board entering the year.
But over the last year, Bitadze has done everything in his power to quell those worries. He started the year dominant for his parent club, Mega Bemax, averaging 20.2 points, eight rebounds, and 2.6 blocks per game in Adriatic League play while shooting 60 percent from the field and 40 percent from 3. The Adriatic League is considered a strong one, but it’s not the highest level and its relative lack of athleticism didn’t do much to show how Bitadze had grown athletically. So in December, Bitadze was loaned to Budocnost VOLI, another Adriatic League team. However, the transfer allowed Bitadze the ability to compete in the Euroleague, the highest level of competition in Europe.
While with Budocnost, Bitadze continued his run of terrific play. He averaged 12.1 points, 6.4 rebounds and 2.3 blocks in 23 minutes of action per game. While those numbers don’t necessarily jump out to an American audience, it’s worth considering where they ranked in the competition. Bitadze only played 13 games and thus didn’t qualify for statistical leads in categories, but his numbers would have ranked in the top-20 in scoring, fifth in rebounding, and first in blocked shots. Given that, it’s no surprise that he won the Euroleague Rising Star award. But he also continued his strong play in the Adriatic League, and was named MVP there.
These awards certainly don’t equal what Doncic did in Euroleague, but beyond him they’ve likely only been matched in the last five years from a teenage production standpoint by Denver Nuggets star Nikola Jokic. So why is Bitadze not held in that same esteem?
Well, the big difference those two players have versus Bitadze is that they can act as offensive initiators, whereas that’s not his game. The team that takes the Georgian center will instead get a player who is an absolute monster in ball-screen scenarios as a screen setter and roller, in addition to a potentially elite rim protector. It’s a somewhat limited role, but it’s a role he’s been devastatingly effective in overseas. Let’s start on offense, where you can get a feel for his talent.
There are just so many positives. First and foremost, he’s a terrific screen setter. He makes contact and gets his guard space. Additionally, he has a great feel for how the on-ball defender is going to attack the guard, with smart instincts for when to flip screens, or do little maneuvers like sticking out his posterior to create a last-second impediment for a defender. Those little tools of the trade that make fans yell for illegal screens? Bitadze has got all of them in his game as a teenager.
Combined with that, his sense of timing on rolls is spectacular. He knows exactly when to end his screen and start his roll. He’ll slip, or he’ll stick a screen hard. After that, his ability to find the open area is superb. He’s great at rolling into the short roll area if that’s where he sees the soft spot, or he can go all the way to the basket and present as a lob threat. Don’t underestimate his hands here, or the way he presents a big target by spreading his limbs out for ball-handlers either. Bitadze’s ability to catch below his waist is critical for being able to handle pocket passes when those are the ones that are available. Bitadze is going to enter the NBA as a useful screen and roll big man for any guard.
Where Bitadze has potential to really differentiate himself as one of the best screen and roll big men in the game, though, is with the jump shot. He hit 40 percent of his 90 3-point attempts this season, with most of those shots coming above the break in pick-and-pop scenarios. As we’ve seen with someone like Brook Lopez this season, the ability to consistently hit above-the-break 3-point shots is critical to a team’s offense now from the center position. It completely warps the way defenses have to play the opposing team, and creates a ton of space for primary initiators to drive into the paint with. Giannis Antetokounmpo’s forthcoming MVP and Eric Bledsoe’s resurgent 2019 were not accidents: both players were terrific, but the space they had to move was critical.
His percentage is a small sample, after he shot 21 percent from 3 in 2017-18, but there’s reason to believe in him as a 3-point shooter early in his career. Everything mechanically is sound. He needs to keep repping jump shots and getting consistent with his footwork and the cleanliness of his release, but there’s reason to believe he will shoot it. This is far from what concerns me about Bitadze offensively long term.
The more concerning bit is his vision and passing. The 7-footer regularly misses kick-out passing reads for open 3s in favor of contested shots at the basket. He’s not super comfortable making the cross corner kick-out read after a short roll, instead looking to finish at the basket himself. He’s comfortable with dribble-hand-off settings and can put the ball on the deck once or twice going toward the basket, but he’s not going to be able to pick out players all over the court. It’s the idea of passing up a good shot for a great one, and it’s one that often comes up at the next level when guards get doubled and centers have to act as safety valve options that make quick decisions to release the pressure in 4-on-3 settings. That part of his game just isn’t quite there yet.
This is the thing that ultimately kind of limits him as an offensive weapon to merely an awesome pick-and-roll big. There are different thoughts around the league on how developable this skill is, with some executives believing that players pick this up as they get more experienced with the game (Clint Capela with Houston would be an example of this development positively). Bitadze certainly displays a high feel in these scenarios. But others are more skeptical that there will be a high level of growth here.
That’s okay, though, because Bitadze’s defensively ability figures to make him valuable, at the very least around the basket. His ability to protect the rim is extremely high level in Europe due to his sense of timing and desire to contest everything. He’s a smart rotator from the weak side, knowing what shots he can get to. In fact, whereas many consider Jaxson Hayes to be the best rim protector in the class, I’d humbly suggest that folks reconsider Bitadze in that conversation.
Bitadze is very real threat to block shots when you go inside the paint. He’s smart at playing gap defense between the ball, the basket, and the man he’s supposed to be guarding. But the downside to his activity can be fouling problems. Bitadze fouled 3.8 times per 23.4 minutes, which can artificially limit the amount of time he can spend on the floor. This remains a very real question about him: can he do his job protecting the rim while also staying on the floor for 28-30 minutes a night? This is also, at times, where you’ll still see his emotion get the better of him. For the most part, he’s done a good job of taking that fire he plays with and using it positively. But it’ll still come out in frustration after a few repeated foul calls.
As you can see a bit of in the clip above, Bitadze has also improved his movement skills quite a bit. His strong awareness helps, and I think there’s a chance he’s a liability out in space at times against the quickest guards. He’ll need to prove at the next level that he can play out on the floor in high-stakes situations when he might get attacked repeatedly. I don’t think you’re going to want to play much switch coverage in ball-screen scenarios with him on the floor, but I’m not convinced that he gets attacked repeatedly out there if you do that, either. He can be a legitimate positive on defense if you can play long, athletic players around him that filter players toward him around the hoop.
To put it all together, I see a player in Bitadze who, as long as foul issues don’t overwhelm him, is going to be among the most NBA-ready players in this class. In many ways, despite their age gap not being very large, Doumbouya is something of the antithesis of that. While his upside is rather large due to his athleticism and skill set, I think it’s going to take Doumbouya a couple of years to come into his own on the NBA level. His consistency in the French league for Limoges just isn’t quite there yet.
Doumbouya certainly has the higher ceiling, but at the end of the day, a draft pick’s value is not necessarily about who is going to be the best player 10 years down the road. Rather, a draft pick’s value is solely determined based upon how much value the team that selects the player derives from him, either based off of production or what it receives in a trade. And while I do see Doumbouya as becoming a successful NBA player in his 20s, I also have a real concern that he might be a guy who is better for his second team than his first team, given how impatient NBA organizations can be with their rookies.
It’s also worth noting my own personal biases as an evaluator, as I do tend to default a bit more toward production and polish than unfinished products, particularly when drafting outside of the elite tiers of the draft. I have both Bitadze and Doumbouya in my fourth tier, with Bitadze at No. 8 and Doumbouya at No. 10. Now, I do think Bitadze is a bit more scheme dependent, whereas you can see Doumbouya working just about anywhere. You have to be a team that’s willing to play more drop coverage in pick-and-roll as opposed to switching with your 5 man at all. But with teams beginning to utilize more zone-like, help-heavy schemes that keep the center in the middle of the paint on defense, more roads are opening up for Bitadze to find success at the next level.
Ultimately, I feel confident in Bitadze turning into a starting quality center due to the overall polish of his skillset and the upside that he’s shown over the last year with his body and his shooting ability. He’s not only my No. 1 international player in this class, but also my top center, as I believe in his rim protection giving him defensive value in the right scheme, and his offensive skill set being better than Hayes’ both now and into the future.
Bitadze might not exactly be well known by the media, yet, and he might not be the story this week. But I’m betting that if you give it a couple of years, they’ll know all about him.
― call all destroyer, Friday, 21 June 2019 15:26 (four years ago) link
ty cad
― micah, Friday, 21 June 2019 20:02 (four years ago) link
https://theathletic.com/1041885/2019/06/23/10-free-agents-the-spurs-could-should-will-target-this-offseason/
please and thank you
― hollow your fart (m bison), Monday, 24 June 2019 19:30 (four years ago) link
SAN ANTONIO – The question was simple, and Gregg Popovich provided a simple answer that today can be used as insight to what the Spurs could be seeking when free agency kicks off at the end of this month.
What was the decision to bring veteran Dante Cunningham onboard after the two sides agreed to a one-year, roughly $2.4 million deal last year?
“He’s veteran,” Popovich said during Spurs media day before last season. “He’s a pro. He plays aggressively. He can play some defense; he can score; he’s been with other programs; and he’ll add another player that’s been around and understand how this works.”
Cunningham, 32, certainly provided his fair share of moments for the Spurs. His best outing, on the stat sheet, came on Nov. 19 when he scored 19 points on 7-of-7 shooting (5-for-5 on 3-pointers), seven rebounds and three assists in a loss to the New Orleans Pelicans.
Popovich praised his defensive efforts in the thrilling Oct. 22 overtime win over the Los Angeles Lakers when Cunningham, before fouling out, secured a game-high 12 rebounds and did his best to help slow down LeBron James. And against those same Pelicans, Cunningham also had a 15-point, seven-rebound outing in the Nov. 3 contest.
In the first 22 games of the season, Cunningham, who was signed to be a role player off the bench, started 18 times, averaging 22.5 minutes for the Spurs.
“We didn’t expect him to be playing all these minutes and he’s taking advantage of the opportunity,” Popovich said after that Nov. 3 game against the Pelicans. “I think he’s been really good for us. He sets the tone defensively. LaMarcus (Aldridge) goes under the bucket, and Dante is picking people up who are really good shooters, or good one-on-one players, and he’s done a great job.”
So, at Cunningham’s price tag, it fair to say the Spurs got a good deal for what he was able to provide when he got extended opportunities. But Cunningham isn’t expected back next season, and the Spurs will have to look to replace his role off the bench.
Unless a significant transaction occurs, the Spurs will be likely operating over the salary cap but not into luxury territory. Hence, they will be able to use the $9.2 million non-taxpayer mid-level exception to add one or multiple players and have the veteran’s minimum slot as well.
If Popovich’s explanation of Cunningham’s signing last season serves as criteria, here are 10 players who could fit the Spurs next season:
Soobum Im-USA TODAY Sports(Soobum Im / USA Today)Trevor ArizaAfter completing a successful stint with the Houston Rockets, Ariza chased the money last offseason and signed a one-year, $15 million deal with the Phoenix Suns. He provided leadership, but the fit wasn’t right on the court.
In 26 games, Ariza averaged 9.9 points and shot 37.9 percent from the field (36 percent from 3) before he was traded to the Washington Wizards last December. He performed better with the Wizards, averaging 14.1 points, 5.3 rebounds and 3.8 assists in 43 games.
The days of Ariza, 33, earning $15 million per season are over. He’s more of a mid-level player now and could be a stable fit for the Spurs — who, league sources told The Athletic, were interested in his services when he became available last season.
The Spurs could offer Ariza the full mid-level or persuade him to take a bit less and use the remaining money to sign another veteran. Ariza is still a good defender who can stretch the floor by hitting the 3. And, as Popovich said of Cunningham, he’s been around and understands how it all works.
If Rudy Gay departs in free agency, perhaps Ariza can help fill the void off the bench. And if Gay returns, nothing wrong with having a similar wing in the second unit or maybe a starter at moments of the season when the Spurs are grappling with injuries.
Jeff GreenSpeaking of the Wizards, forward Jeff Green will be another free agent worth keeping an eye on. Green played last season on a one-year vet minimum valued at roughly $2.3 million, a deal similar to Cunningham’s. Perhaps he would be interested in taking another minimum deal with the Spurs.
Green, 32, averaged 12.3 points and 4.0 rebounds in 77 games with the Wizards last season. He’s known as a locker-room guy and as someone who can provide some big outings at times. The thing is, don’t expect Green to be consistent when it comes to those outings.
“He’s always been such an enigma that you don’t know what you’re going to get night to night,” one Eastern Conference scout said. “But I can also see him being a little Spur-ish in his skill set. I just don’t know if he’ll have the night-to-night focus that Pop would like.”
But the Spurs wouldn’t need Green to come up big every game. If they can live with the type of player he is — a scorer and someone who loves to play but is perfectly fine being a role player — maybe this could be a beautiful one-year partnership.
Wesley MatthewsHere is a name the Spurs flirted with through the buyout market. Matthews said Aldridge and DeMar DeRozan attempted to recruit him to the Spurs before he selected the Indiana Pacers.
Word around the league is the Pacers will not attempt to bring back Matthews, allowing the veteran guard to sign with any team he desires.
Though there were signs of slippage, Matthews is still respected as a solid 3-and-D wing. If he can accept a secondary role, Matthews could provide the Spurs with another 3-point threat who can stretch the floor for Aldridge, his former teammate in Portland.
It might take more than the vet minimum to get Matthews to San Antonio. If the Spurs decide to split the mid-level money between two players, maybe they could persuade Matthews with the right deal.
But if the two recruiters made any traction with Matthews months ago, it shouldn’t take much to get Matthews to sign with the Spurs.
Jeff Hanisch-USA TODAY Sports(Jeff Hanisch / USA Today)Wayne EllingtonOf the players mentioned so far, Ellington is probably the perfect Spur. Ellington can shoot, is a better defender than what he’s given credit for and is a reliable team defender.
With the Detroit Pistons, Ellington was charged with the task of defending multiple positions, and some of the assignments were bigger than Ellington. But the University of North Carolina product held his own and competed.
After he was traded by the Miami Heat and waived by the Phoenix Suns, Ellington signed with the Pistons, where he finished the season averaging 12 points and shot 37.3 percent on 3-pointers. What makes Ellington stand out the most when it comes to potential free-agent targets are his character and team-first mindset.
“He’s that 1,000 percent,” a league exec said when discussing Ellington. “He would fit what is known as the Spurs’ culture. He would embrace it. He wouldn’t mind being coached hard by Pop because he’s going to play the right way.”
Jonathon Simmons“His best days were there,” the league exec said. “Maybe they can rekindle that.”
Simmons’ rights are now with the Washington Wizards after he was traded on draft night by the Philadelphia 76ers. Many around the NBA expected Simmons, who is scheduled to make roughly $5.7 million next season, to be waived by next month, but that all changed Thursday.
As of now, the feeling is the Wizards will keep Simmons around. Should that change, he’s guaranteed only $1 million next season if he’s waived.
Would the Spurs be interested in a possible reunion if Simmons’ time with the Wizards is short-lived?
If he becomes available, Simmons will most likely be grouped with the second or third wave of free agents. Should the Spurs miss out on some bigger targets, maybe Simmons is still around and decides to return on a one-year deal, hoping to have a productive season and make up lost revenue next summer.
Though he didn’t show much of it in Philly, Simmons is still a capable defender who can create his own shot and get into the lane. The Spurs do need more 3-point shooting, but Popovich always loves a player willing to compete and defend. And the Spurs should know how to incorporate Simmons better than any other team, as the Houston native developed under their watch before he departed in 2017.
Rondae Hollis-JeffersonIn one of the earlier news items of the week, ESPN.com reported the Brooklyn Nets did not extend Hollis-Jefferson his $3.9 million qualifying offer. He will now become an unrestricted free agent.
League sources have informed The Athletic that Hollis-Jefferson will explore his options and has not pinpointed any potential suitors. Though nothing is official, the Spurs should consider the former University of Arizona standout.
It’s known the Spurs like to get in-depth intel on players they are considering for their program. Sean Marks, the former Spurs GM and current Nets GM, should be able to provide all the insight needed about Hollis-Jefferson’s potential fit.
On the court, Hollis-Jefferson is praised for his defense and has good size at 6-foot-7. He can provide energy off the bench and would be reliable in transition with his athleticism. The problem …
“No offense to speak of,” a scout said. “He’s supposed to be a three, but he can’t put the ball in the hole.”
And here is what will be the issue for Hollis-Jefferson.
In his four-year career, he shot 44.4 percent from the field and 22.3 percent from beyond the arc. Where he makes up for his shooting woes is through his reputation of playing hard. Again, the Spurs admire players who will compete, but whether Hollis-Jefferson provides enough offense will be one of the questions the team will consider if it explores a signing.
Paul MillsapThe Nuggets will need to decide on Millsap soon, as he has a team option worth $30 million for next season.
Millsap averaged 12.6 points and 7.2 rebounds for the second-seeded Nuggets, who eliminated the Spurs from the postseason. Those numbers aren’t terrible, but the price to bring Millsap back to the Mile High City might be a bit too much.
Millsap is one of the better frontcourt defenders, and he’s not afraid to shoot the 3. If he’s in a lineup with Aldridge, he could see plenty of opportunities from beyond the arc.
The question: How much would it cost to add Millsap? He should have a fair share of suitors capable of paying him more than the mid-level exception. But if Millsap has an interest in the Spurs, this is a potential addition that could be intriguing.
Stanley JohnsonSince the trade deadline, Johnson’s name has always been linked to the Spurs. Assistant GM Brian Wright was in Detroit’s front office when Johnson was drafted eighth overall in 2015.
Some are still trying to understand what Johnson, who’s 6-foot-7, is at this level. A guard? Small forward? He’s not the best shooter and is a streaky scorer, but he is also known as a good defender when he wants to compete. The good, or bad depending on perspective: Johnson just turned 23 last month.
Usually, teams will still attempt to develop a player of that age and mold him into something that fits their needs. Whether Johnson will go along with the plan has been the question many league execs have asked when discussing his services.
The talent is there, though. The Spurs might need to do a little convincing — not much — and if Johnson buys in, he could be a quiet steal when it’s all said and done.
Steve Mitchell-USA TODAY SportsCould Amir Johnson, right, be on the Spurs’ radar this offseason? (Steve Mitchell / USA Today)Amir JohnsonSpeaking of Johnsons, don’t forget about Amir. Johnson’s time with the Sixers, like that of Simmons, appears complete.
After agreeing to re-sign with Philly on a one-year deal last summer, Johnson played in only 51 games and his minutes dipped from 15.9 to 10.4 per game. As a reserve, Johnson averaged 3.9 points and 2.9 rebounds.
There has always been some intrigue with the Spurs and Johnson. The team inquired about signing Johnson since his days in Toronto and have kept a close eye on him while he played with the Boston Celtics, league sources told The Athletic. But the time to add Johnson, 32, never seemed to align until now.
Off the bench, Johnson would provide another vet who could serve as an energy guy — play defense, set screens, rebound, convert a few putbacks and call it a day. He’s also close with DeRozan and Gay, as the trio played together with the Raptors.
Robin LopezThis would be a connection-based signing. The connection here is Aldridge, who played with Lopez in Portland. Aldridge loved playing with Lopez, who has always been respected around the NBA as a serviceable big man.
“I like him (with the Spurs) a lot,” the Eastern Conference scout said.
Lopez is a good paint protector and underrated passer, and some look at him as a better rebounder than his brother, Brook, especially on the offensive end. With the Spurs, Lopez would be able to once again play next to Aldridge at times and do what he does best — defend, pass, rebound and set screens.
Lopez, 31, shouldn’t cost too much and could be the right vet-minimum candidate for the Spurs, who need more frontline help with only Aldridge, Jakob Poeltl and youngster Chimezie Metu as the big men currently on the roster for next season.
― big city slam (Spottie), Monday, 24 June 2019 19:31 (four years ago) link
Dang thanks
Spurs have a complete roster already and that full MLE should get them a decent vet. Ariza, wes matthews, or Jeff green would fit some me needs on the wing. they lacked for defense last year but not cool with people who can’t hit outside shots given their personnel.
― hollow your fart (m bison), Monday, 24 June 2019 19:39 (four years ago) link
Millsap seems like a fantasy unless they trade Aldridge
― hollow your fart (m bison), Monday, 24 June 2019 19:40 (four years ago) link
plz and thank youhttps://theathletic.com/1066708/2019/07/08/the-good-and-bad-of-al-horfords-fit-with-joel-embiid-and-ben-simmons/
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 18:40 (four years ago) link
Over the course of the 76ers-Celtics battles of the past couple years, Sixers fans have grown quite familiar with Al Horford’s game. You likely know what to expect the 12-year veteran — who surprised the league when free agency opened by agreeing to a four-year deal with Philadelphia — to bring to his new team.
But Horford’s new role figures to be very different than it was with Boston. Specifically, he’ll play quite a bit of power forward next to Joel Embiid. That raises important questions: Does the 33-year-old provide enough spacing at the four, next to Embiid? Is Horford capable of attacking closeouts off the dribble? Can he defend sleek fours nightly?
Then there’s the other part of Horford’s role — his minutes at center, when Embiid is on the bench. How will Horford’s time at the five change things for Ben Simmons?
Let’s dive into the film and see how Horford fits with Philadelphia’s young cornerstones.
The Horford-Embiid pairing
As Rich Hofmann broke down last week, the Sixers will likely stagger Embiid and Horford’s minutes some, but the new duo will still have to share the floor for a minimum of around 15 minutes per night. That won’t be an entirely new challenge for Horford, who has played power forward throughout his career. But he’s never shared the floor with a high-volume post-up player like Embiid.
Ensuring proper post-spacing for Embiid is paramount, and in that sense, Horford is not the perfect fit. While accuracy has never been an issue with Horford’s shot, there’s some concern over whether he has a quick-enough release to get his shot off over scrambling defenders, and the ability to blow by those defenders off the dribble. Without those things, opponents will simply double-team off of Horford and bet that they can recover.
The former is a legitimate concern, as Horford attempted only one 3-pointer with a defender within four feet of him all of last season, per NBA.com. That number sounds scarier than it is — for reference, Dario Saric only attempted 24 such shots in 2017-18 — but Horford’s slow release could still cause problems.
Being adept at both putting the ball on the deck and attacking the rim should help Horford compensate. Underrated in this sense, he’s often able to leave defenders in the dust and glide in for tough finishes.
Horford’s ability to pump fake and go should keep the Sixers’ offense flowing, and mitigates the damage of his tendency to opt out against tight contests. Horford is also a smart, controlled passer out of these situations, and a good finisher.
Again, though, the fit here is imperfect. Embiid’s previous partners at power forward — Saric, Ersan Ilyasova, Tobias Harris — are more prolific from 3 than Horford. The Sixers have to hope that Horford’s driving ability, along with some increased willingness to shoot, will hold things together.
Horford’s fit on the defensive end next to Embiid is much clearer. With Horford’s size, mobility and intelligence, the Sixers are poised to be a top five defensive team this coming season.
His ability to defend fours against small-ball lineups might concern some. Whom does Horford defend when the Clippers play Paul George at power forward? How about when Boston plays Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Gordon Hayward in the same lineup?
For my money, Horford is switchable enough to stay afloat against those lineups, even though it’s not ideal. Chasing players like Hayward or George will be difficult, but Horford is excellent at surviving in isolations.
Many good teams are going to throw small-ball lineups with dynamic perimeter scorers at the four at Philadelphia. A lot hinges on Horford’s ability to guard — and punish — them on the offensive end. It’s a battle we’ll track all year; my bet is Horford handles it decently well.
The Horford-Embiid pairing will have its challenges on both ends, but I think it will be a fruitful partnership. Horford has hinted a few times that he prefers playing power forward over center, and he certainly has the skills to do it. The defensive upside is incredible, and with any increased willingness to shoot, the offense should flow just fine.
The Horford-Simmons pairing
In recent years, the Sixers have coveted players like Horford — stretch bigs with the ability to play the four or five. They loved that dynamic with Ilyasova in 2017-18, and tried to replicate it with Mike Muscala this past year, but it didn’t work out. Now, they’ve got Horford.
Much of the value in having a stretch five — and perhaps the reason Philadelphia has targeted this type of player — comes in how much it helps Simmons. For starters, it opens things up tremendously in transition. Many teams try to form a shell at the free-throw line to impede Simmons in the open floor. But with Horford, they’ll have to think twice. He’ll be able to waltz into trailing 3s should teams have their big men stationed at the free-throw line, as Embiid does here.
Horford’s threat in pick-and-pops will help Simmons to operate more in pick-and-rolls, as bigs can’t play drop coverages against Horford. It would also open things up for Simmons to play as the roll man with guards, with Horford spacing the floor in the corner.
Defensively, lineups with Horford and Simmons offer a ton of versatility, and the Sixers will be able to switch everything, if they want. The team has always hemorrhaged points on defense when Embiid sits, but that should no longer be the case.
With Horford as the de facto backup center, we’re going to learn a lot about Simmons. Over the past two years, the Sixers have always remained solid when Embiid plays without Simmons, but they disintegrate when Simmons plays without Embiid. Much of that could be blamed on the Sixers’ dreadful backup-center play over the past two seasons. With Horford in the fold, Simmons no longer has that excuse. If the on/off numbers tell the same story this year, it will not be a good look for Simmons.
All things considered, Horford’s fit with Embiid seems less than perfect, but his fit with Simmons — with Horford as the backup center, at least — should be tremendous. The oversized lineups with limited shooting will have their challenges. But with Horford’s unselfishness and intelligence, along with an uptick in attempts from 3, the upside is enormous.
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 18:41 (four years ago) link
thanks. that kind of reinforces my thoughts on Horf in Philly; a lot depends on Simmons being able to step up to 20/10 territory
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 18:53 (four years ago) link
anyone have WSJ?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/kevin-durants-new-headspace-11568119028
― big city slam (Spottie), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 18:38 (four years ago) link
Kevin Durant’s New HeadspaceThe Nets new star is focused on his recovery and elated to be coming to Brooklyn—so can everyone stop worrying about whether or not he’s happy? “We talk about mental health a lot. We only talk about it when it comes to players. We need to talk about it when it comes to executives, media, fans.”By J.R. MoehringerSept. 10, 2019 8:37 am ET
“Some days I hate the NBA,” Kevin Durant says wearily.
He’s facedown on a padded table, wearing dark workout shorts, a weathered gray DMX T-shirt, a Washington Redskins fleece draped over his shoulders. A physical therapist leans over him, wafting circulation-boosting lasers up and down his surgically repaired right calf.
“Some days I hate the circus of the NBA,” he says. “Some days I hate that the players let the NBA business, the fame that comes with the business, alter their minds about the game. Sometimes I don’t like being around the executives and politics that come with it. I hate that.”
Since June 10, when Durant crumpled to the floor with a ruptured Achilles, halting Game 5 of the NBA Finals and casting a pall over the rest of the series, it’s been The Question: Will the two-time Finals MVP, 2014 league MVP, four-time scoring leader, ever be the same? But listen to him for just a few minutes: He won’t. He’s already a different person.
The change is more than cosmetic, more than simply leaving the Golden State Warriors and signing a four-year $164 million deal with the Brooklyn Nets. It’s more than dropping his longtime number, 35, which possessed enormous symbolism. (A beloved youth coach and mentor was shot and killed at 35 years old.) The change feels elemental, as if Durant’s brush with basketball mortality made him see how fast it all might go away, how fast it will go away (he turns 31 this month), and it scared him, or matured him, or made him think.
And he was already a thinker. “I’ve always been on a search,” he says.
Producer Brian Grazer, a creative partner, says Durant is one of the most original, idiosyncratic minds you’re likely to meet in the world of sports. Grazer recalls a talk Durant gave at a Google retreat in Sicily. During the Q&A someone asked what made Durant so great. Coolly, Durant replied: “Paranoia.”
But all this is guesswork, and Durant hates the way people are forever guessing about his psyche, which is another reason he hates the NBA. So here’s another guess: Maybe he’s not changed, or not merely changed—maybe he’s also dead tired. He sounds tired, looks tired, with good reason. His 12-year NBA career has featured outsize doses of drama, scandal, injuries, gutting losses, fierce beefs, dramatic exits, emotional returns, burner accounts. Even his most devoted fans (Mom and Dad) say the ruptured Achilles and the yearlong layoff it will likely require might be a blessing. In every sense of the word, the man needs to heal.
The healing starts here, in this $24 million neo-brutalist mansion nailed to the side of a cliff above Beverly Hills. Level with the tops of the Santa Monica Mountains, eye-to-eye with the raptors that surf the swirly updrafts, this will be the setting for Phase One of Durant’s rebuild.
In some ways the place is mega-normal, just another stately pleasure dome of superstardom (seven bedrooms, 12 bathrooms; rent: $90,000 a month). But at moments there’s a weird vibe. The house feels like a chrysalis, or a crypt, depending on your point of view, and not simply because the front door is a giant sliding slab of stone. Whatever comes next for Durant—a compromised skill set, a comeback for the ages—it will be determined largely by what happens within these concrete walls, inside these unaccountably dark rooms, and this inescapable truth can really throw off the feng shui. Even the man installing the special low-resistance treadmill in the living room looks a little tense.
Team Durant’s plan is for him to hole up here all summer, then transition to his new home in New York City soon after Labor Day. He’s flying east tonight to look at a few places. Friends have urged him to consider Manhattan, but Dumbo, he thinks, might be more his speed. He wants high ceilings, a sick view, proximity to the Nets practice gym. He lives for a gym, prides himself on rolling out of bed straight into practice. “I don’t wear matching clothes…I don’t wash my face, I don’t brush my hair. I just come in there and go to work.”
This morning, however, the only plan he cares about is the rehab plan. He’s laser focused on this laser. Somehow he even tunes out the blaring big-screen TV across the room. While his friends stretch out on big leather couches, watching White Boy Rick, discussing the plot twists, Durant stretches out on the table, subdued, quiet. This is the flip side of his hatred for the NBA: an almost pious devotion to the game itself and anything that can help him play it at the highest level.
“Without basketball,” he says flatly, “I wouldn’t have done much on earth.” Wouldn’t have traveled the world, or met politicians, entrepreneurs, moguls, rappers, each of whom adds to his store of knowledge and advances his search. “I wouldn’t have seen stuff that I’ve seen, compared to my friends I grew up with. Wouldn’t have gone to India. Or Hawaii.”
His words are suddenly punctuated by bone-shuddering gunshots in surround sound. Someone in White Boy Rick’s world is never going to Mumbai.
The physical therapist, Dave Hancock, cuts the laser, repositions Durant. He rubs around the eight-inch surgical scar on the back of Durant’s calf, kneading the soft tissue to increase blood flow and improve collagen formation. He then manipulates other muscles and tendons in the lower leg to keep them engaged and energized.
Next, Hancock slips Durant’s leg into a boot and sends him outside, into a walled backyard. On metal crutches that look like medieval jousting lances, Durant does a circuit, paces before an outdoor bar decorated with the logo of his new team. Just shy of 7 feet, without a shred of fat, he always traverses earth differently from other humans. (“You can feel his height,” Grazer says.) But with crutches and a boot, his halting-flowing stride is a jarring mix of fragility and athletic grace. Like a baby deer performing the Martha Graham technique.
After the gingerly constitutional it’s time to slide into the infinity pool for one-minute cardio bursts. The infinity pool overlooks…infinity. Durant, however, shows no interest in the view. After easing into the silver-blue water he begins kicking, paddling, maneuvering a rubber ball. When he flags, Hancock nudges. Again. The 45-minute regimen leaves them both gasping.
Hancock hands Durant a basketball (black, Nets logo) and tells him to shoot. The hoop is at the far end of the pool. Floating backward, standing flamingo-style, talking, not talking, looking, not looking, no matter: Swish. Swish. Swish.
Grazer says he once asked Durant what it’s like to choke in a big game. I’ve never choked, Durant said. Everyone chokes, Grazer said. “[Durant] says, ‘I will always shoot the ball—choking is not shooting the ball. If I miss, it’s not my fault. It’s the environment. Or someone else’s fault.’ At first that sounded arrogant. But if you think about it, it makes sense. Choking is not shooting.”
Cardio over, summer sun directly overhead, Durant moves into the dark coolness of the house. A chef brings him a plate. Crispy black cod, parsnip-and-potato purée, chanterelle mushrooms, roasted fennel, followed by crème brûlée topped with fresh whipped cream and sliced strawberries. Durant takes two bites, sets the plate aside. He burrows into the couch recently abandoned by his friends. He has only a short time to rest and regroup. This morning’s regimen will be followed by another this afternoon. Two sessions, every day except Sunday, all summer.
Another athlete might complain about the monotony, says Hancock, who’s worked privately with Odell Beckham Jr., David Beckham, Daniel Craig, U2. But Durant attacks it with an all-consuming fire, which Hancock calls the hallmark of an elite athlete.
In fact, for Durant, rehab began nanoseconds after the injury. He heard the tendon pop, felt the leg turn to lead, knew exactly what lay ahead. He stayed cool, collected, even back in the locker room, surrounded by teammates and executives looking like mourners at his wake. Only when doctors started talking blood clots and other bad outcomes did Durant’s mind go “to a crazy place.”
His phone went crazy too. Calls and texts from everywhere. (Barack Obama: Speedy recovery.) Among the first was his mother, Wanda Durant, whom he immortalized as “the real MVP” in his 2014 MVP acceptance speech. She was watching the game at home in Maryland, in the house Durant bought her. She stepped out of the room for a moment, and when she came back she saw her phone fluttering. Fifteen texts?
She looked at the first. It was from a friend. It just said: Oh no.
Frantic, she rewound the game, pressed pause, put her face close to the screen, looked deep into her son’s frozen eyes, trying to see how bad it was.
It was bad.
She cried when he answered the phone. He told her it was OK, because that’s what the son of a single mother says. She said she was on her way, she’d be on a plane that night. He said no. The next day would be soon enough.
She was at New York’s Hospital for Special Surgery 48 hours later, the last face he saw as they wheeled him into the operating room and one of the first he saw when he woke from the anesthesia. She then followed him to a suite at the Four Seasons, where she did all the things he couldn’t do for himself. “He was in the tub,” Wanda says, “and I was washing him, and we were talking, making sure his leg didn’t get wet and the bandage stayed dry, and he said: ‘Mom, it feels good to have you take care of me.’ And it just—”
She stops, overcome with emotion.
The moment was especially sweet because not long ago mother and son were on the outs. Wanda had been handling Durant’s financial affairs since he broke into the league, but in 2014 he decided to take control. It caused a rift, which took months, Durant says, to heal.
After several days Wanda went home, and Durant moved to a temporary apartment in SoHo. His father came. (Wayne Pratt wasn’t present for most of Durant’s childhood, but he’s now part of Durant’s small inner circle.) They ate vegetarian takeout, watched The Black Godfather, spent a whole afternoon together without once mentioning basketball, even though the NBA’s free agency period was days away. The basketball world was breathlessly waiting to hear which team Durant would choose, and Durant’s father was breathless too. But Durant was determined to keep his own counsel.
A far cry from three years ago, says Rich Kleiman, Durant’s manager, business partner and close friend. In the summer of 2016 he and Durant rented a palatial estate on Further Lane in the Hamptons and welcomed a procession of lobbying delegations from various teams, including a party of four stars from Golden State. This time around, shortly before the start of free agency, Kleiman met Durant for lunch at Cipriani, a chic restaurant in SoHo, and gave him one last overview of all the teams and all his options. Durant said: “All right. Well. I’m going with Brooklyn.” Just like that.
Kleiman was taken aback: For real? Yes, Durant said. End of discussion. (Looking back on both free-agency crossroads, Kleiman laughs. “The Hamptons and Cipriani? How bougie can you get?”)
Durant says his decision-making process was as simple on the inside as it looked from the outside. Brooklyn was the right fit; he just knew. He didn’t even speak to the Nets before his decision, he says. He didn’t need a PowerPoint. He’s always felt big love as a visiting player at Barclays Center, he says, and he wondered what it might be like if he were on the home team. Plus, the Nets offered the opportunity to join his “best friend in the league,” Kyrie Irving.
Of course, Durant says, he was conflicted about leaving the Bay Area. “I came in there wanting to be part of a group, wanting to be part of a family, and definitely felt accepted,” he says. “But I’ll never be one of those guys. I didn’t get drafted there.… Steph Curry, obviously drafted there. Andre Iguodala, won the first Finals, first championship. Klay Thompson, drafted there. Draymond Green, drafted there. And the rest of the guys kind of rehabilitated their careers there. So me? Shit, how you going to rehabilitate me? What you going to teach me? How can you alter anything in my basketball life? I got an MVP already. I got scoring titles.”
That he stood out, stood apart from the group, felt preordained. “Some days I hate the circus of the NBA,” Durant says. “Some days I hate that the players let the NBA business, the fame that comes with the business, alter their minds about the game.”
“As time went on,” he says, “I started to realize I’m just different from the rest of the guys. It’s not a bad thing. Just my circumstances and how I came up in the league. And on top of that, the media always looked at it like KD and the Warriors. So it’s like nobody could get a full acceptance of me there.”
He scoffs at rumors that his public disagreement with Green, in the final moments of a game last November, was determinative. (Durant scolded Green for not passing him the ball; Green then berated Durant, repeatedly calling him a bitch.) It was “a bullshit argument,” he says, “that meant nothing. Absolutely nothing. We were good before it. We were great.”
And great, he insists, after.
But there was also this: From a strictly competitive, strategic standpoint, Durant had come to fear that Golden State had hit a ceiling.
“The motion offense we run in Golden State, it only works to a certain point,” he says. “We can totally rely on only our system for maybe the first two rounds. Then the next two rounds we’re going to have to mix in individual play. We’ve got to throw teams off, because they’re smarter in that round of playoffs. So now I had to dive into my bag, deep, to create stuff on my own, off the dribble, isos, pick-and-rolls, more so than let the offense create my points for me.” He wanted to go someplace where he’d be free to hone that sort of improvisational game throughout the regular season.
His tenure in the Bay Area was great, he says, but because of media speculation, fan anxiety, “it didn’t feel as great as it could have been. We talk about mental health a lot,” Durant says. “We only talk about it when it comes to players. We need to talk about it when it comes to executives, media, fans.”
A small detail, perhaps telling: He hasn’t been back to the Bay Area since June, since the injury, and he has no plans to return. His staff cleaned out his apartment in San Francisco, packed up the furniture, the memorabilia, including the MVP trophies that sat on the mantel. He doesn’t know when he’ll return again.
Meaningful? Merely logistical? People want to know. Desperately. Durant knows they want to know. Breakups represent change, and change represents death—naturally people obsess. Some still need clarity on Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt, the Beatles. What the hell did Yoko do?
Durant has a Ph.D. in this phenomenon. When he left the Oklahoma City Thunder for Golden State, reaction was intense. Overnight he went from icon to traitor. The memory still pains him.
“People coming to my house and spray-painting on the for sale signs around my neighborhood,” he recalls. “People making videos in front of my house and burning my jerseys and calling me all types of crazy names.”
At his first game in Oklahoma City as a visitor—February 2017—fans yowled for blood and brandished cupcakes, because Durant was supposedly soft. “Such a venomous toxic feeling when I walked into that arena,” he says. “And just the organization, the trainers and equipment managers, those dudes is pissed off at me? Ain’t talking to me? I’m like, Yo, this is where we going with this? Because I left a team and went to play with another team?”
His mother recalls one particularly appalling piece of video: a Thunder fan firing bullets into a No. 35 jersey. Bullets—after she and Durant and half his extended family relocated to Oklahoma, after they embraced the community, after Durant gave a million dollars to tornado victims.
“I’ll never be attached to that city again because of that,” Durant says. “I eventually wanted to come back to that city and be part of that community and organization, but I don’t trust nobody there. That shit must have been fake, what they was doing. The organization, the GM, I ain’t talked to none of those people, even had a nice exchange with those people, since I left.”
Though fans in Toronto roared with pleasure and glee the moment he ruptured his Achilles, he doesn’t view that behavior in the same light. On the contrary, it tickled him. Torontonians knew he was playing the best basketball of his life. “They was terrified that I was on the floor,” he says, suppressing a smile. “You could feel it the second I walked out there.”
Does this same largesse extend to Toronto’s über booster, Drake, who trash-talked the Warriors and practically ran the floor on every fast break, thus irking half a continent? It does, it does. “That’s my brother. I view him as, like, blood.” If you get upset about how Drake roots for his hometown team, he adds, “You need to reevaluate yourself.” Durant’s own clothing and jewelry, David Yurman chain, $3,500, David Yurman, 114 Prince Street, New York. . Hair, Eric Adams; grooming, Tasha Reiko Brown; manicure, Ashlie Johnson. Photo: Mario Sorrenti for WSJ. Magazine, Styling by Sydney Rose Thomas
No, what Durant doesn’t like, what unnerves him, is when raw hatred poses as fandom. “We talk about mental health a lot. We only talk about it when it comes to players. We need to talk about it when it comes to executives, media, fans.”
As with the ruptured Achilles, however, the bitter parting with Oklahoma City brought hidden boons. “It made me realize how big this whole shit is,” he says. The “shit,” he says, is “the machine,” a great big invisible generator of narratives, programmed by the powers that be to gin up controversy, conflict, whatever keeps people dialed in. He’s learned—he’s learning—to free himself from the machine, to separate the game he loves from the noise and nonsense surrounding it.
Though he can sound stressed when discussing this stuff, though he can look downhearted, beard askew, doleful eyes fixed on the ground, Durant wants people to know he’s happy. More, he wants them to please for the love of God stop asking if he’s happy.
Maybe it’s a function of his introversion. Maybe it’s his resting facial expression, which is that of a man who just found a parking ticket on his windshield. Whatever the reason, observers often think Durant is bummed, or numb, when in fact he’s just pleasantly idling in neutral. “People are always like, Are you happy? It’s like, Yo, what the f— does that mean right now?… That was the whole thing this year: Is KD happy where he is?”
Such a highly personal question, he complains. More, an unanswerable question. And whenever he tries to answer it, earnestly, honestly, no one’s satisfied, which makes them unhappy, which then makes him unhappy.
Indeed, right after he announced his deal with Brooklyn, a typical story dominated one or two news cycles. Warriors execs, behind the scenes, supposedly saying Durant wasn’t happy enough after winning two titles: Nothing’s good enough for this guy.
False, Durant says. “It’s very rare in our lives when we envision and picture something and it comes together the perfect way you envision it. [Winning a title] was the only time in my life that happened, and that summer was the most exhilarating time. Every day I woke up I just felt so good about myself, so good about life.… That was a defining moment in my life—not just my basketball life.”
This is the one thing that doesn’t change about Durant. He still tries earnestly, honestly to correct the record, give real answers, put the truth out there. He doesn’t measure his words, doesn’t care if he says it wrong or contradicts himself. (Case in point: He’s spoken forgivingly about Oklahoma City in the past. But he’s not feeling that right now, and he’s not the least bit concerned if the paradox throws you.)
What matters more than continuity, more than happiness, more than titles—more than anything—is the search. Durant is one of the few NBA players who speaks of the game as a vehicle for gaining wisdom.
The rapper Q-Tip recently sent Durant an old black-and-white clip of Bruce Lee, which Durant devoured. Lee put it so beautifully, telling an interviewer about the secret of martial arts. “All types of knowledge,” Lee says, “ultimately mean self-knowledge.” The more you know about martial arts, the more you know about yourself, and the more you can then express yourself with your body—especially in “combat.” On any given night he has things to express. Angry things, scary things, joyful things, about his story.
He grew up in the roughest parts of Prince George’s County, Maryland. No money, no father. Lost a cherished aunt and a coach at a tender age. Lost friends to gun violence. Survived a bare, lonely two-room apartment, just his mom and brother, and now inhabits this ridiculous American schloss. Every step of that remarkable journey has left a mark, reshaped his soul. He wants to tell you how, wants to tell the world, and he does so with his beautiful game, a sui generis hybrid of length and strength, violence and accuracy and grace.
Laurene Powell Jobs, who helped Durant establish a multimillion-dollar program in Prince George’s County to help college-bound kids ready themselves—scholastically, emotionally, financially—says Durant is “a deeply integrated individual,” which makes him rare among all people, let alone celebrities. Integrated people, she says, “keep all the knowledge of their experience and bring it to their current awareness.… They use it as a source of knowledge, of power, and want to effect change that’s informed by their experience.”
If basketball isn’t available, Durant finds expression through other means. Photography, music, art. He dabbles, or dives deep, depending. But he’s discovered a true passion for business. He seeks out founders, leaders, CEOs and applies what he learns from them to the empire he’s building with Kleiman. Under the rubric of 35 Ventures—headquartered in New York City, staff of 15—they manage Durant’s lucrative endorsement deals, oversee an equity partnership with luxury audio company Master & Dynamic and create an eclectic investment portfolio (technology, hospitality, media) tailored to their shared interests.
They also generate a lot of content. Just this year they produced a documentary about the San Quentin Warriors, a hoops team inside the maximum security prison; launched a six-episode series on ESPN called The Boardroom about the business of sports, along with related digital shorts; and began filming a scripted show called Swagger, loosely based on Durant’s days playing youth basketball, with Grazer as a co-producer.
Through the Kevin Durant Charity Foundation they also help groups that take innovative approaches to fighting homelessness and easing hunger, and they do dazzling refurbishments of basketball courts in low-income neighborhoods around the world.
Above all, Durant expresses himself through social media. Instagram is one of his main portals to the world. It’s an introvert’s utopia, he says, a place to engage with people from a safe distance. Never mind the grief it’s caused him in the past. (In recent years, at times using fake accounts, he’s clashed with online critics, including at least one who still had a curfew.) He checks his direct messages twice daily, and though they number in the hundreds, he methodically works his way through, chatting with all sorts of folks about all sorts of subjects. Recently he conducted a two-week-long dialogue with a total stranger, a young man who detailed his many struggles and mental woes, ad nauseam, all of which Durant found fascinating.
He’ll also talk shop with anyone. The other day a middle school student reached out. “She’s like, I started to play at the free throw line, but I’m not very comfortable there, so I don’t really know what to do when I get inside the zone. It was such a nice-ass question. She blew my mind.”
He often parachutes into young people’s comments, doles out praise, congratulates them on a great game, a big win, “just encouraging them, letting them know they’re nice, and keep going. That shit does a lot for me. That’s why I like the Gram. A lot of young grass-roots basketball players, I build relationships through Instagram, so when we see each other it’s love.”
He recalls having a drink with E-40, rapper, philosopher, who claims authorship of several everyday phrases, including “You feel me?” E-40 made a toast: I’m not above you, I’m not below you—I’m right beside you. “I’m like, That’s the approach I take with everybody!”
Maybe that utopian vision of the world will now come true. Maybe Durant’s unfiltered dialogue with humanity will reach new levels of intimacy and respect and mutual understanding. Just as the injury changed Durant, or accelerated changes already in process, maybe it will alter public perception. The knocks—that he was soft, that introvert was a fancy word for selfish—seemed to evaporate the moment he gave up his body for Golden State. Starting Game 5 with a strained calf, risking and then incurring catastrophic injury, seemed to instantly restore the hero status he enjoyed early in his career.
Or maybe the machine has other plans for his narrative.
It’s almost time for the afternoon session with Hancock. First, though, a quick interview with a film crew making a documentary about basketball in Prince George’s County. Time suddenly seems like the infinity pool. No edges, no horizon. Talking about the past, working on the future, hobbled in an uncertain present.
Durant says he’s decided to wear No. 7 in Brooklyn because it stands for completion in the Bible. (God rested on the seventh day after creating Heaven and Earth.) Clearly the completion of his career is on his mind. In which case, what next?
Kids, he says, maybe.
How many?
He throws out numbers. Maybe five. Maybe one.
First he needs to find a woman who can handle this crazy life.
He used to think that wasn’t such a tall order. But, as with so many things, his thinking on that has evolved.
“I thought this life was pretty simple,” he says. “But it’s not as simple as I thought it was.”
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 18:49 (four years ago) link
thanks!
― big city slam (Spottie), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link
kd and kyrie on the same team, good times lol
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:49 (four years ago) link
U want me to see you, I see u my son. Now go flourish with that clout u received— Kevin Durant (@KDTrey5) September 10, 2019
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:52 (four years ago) link
these guys are walking contradictions but i kinda love it.
dont forget deandre jordan is on that team too lol
― big city slam (Spottie), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:54 (four years ago) link
jordan has had some episodes of flightiness but seems like a good guy to be around is well liked etc kyrie and kd are such grumpuses
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:56 (four years ago) link
btw this chrome extension will get u into the wsj and many other sites https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:58 (four years ago) link
ah thanks
― big city slam (Spottie), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 20:15 (four years ago) link
i mean
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEIRuhPU8AEEpst?format=jpg&name=large
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 20:20 (four years ago) link
he is extremely silly
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 20:22 (four years ago) link
not even kobe wld wear a chain that said revenge
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 20:49 (four years ago) link
mamba mentality tho
― big city slam (Spottie), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:01 (four years ago) link
at least he employed a symbol, tried to show some verve
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:36 (four years ago) link
Kind of amazing how much his public rep has changed since that MVP press conference. Remembering that guy, it just seems like he's been horribly ill-equipped to handle being megafamous in a social media world, and it's really taken its toll on him. In retrospect Kyrie's always been a loon but Durant seems more fallen.
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 01:36 (four years ago) link
People really didn’t like that move to GS, and people still aren’t over it. 3 years of hearing the same ol thing has got to get old.
― big city slam (Spottie), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 01:59 (four years ago) link
True because he can't resist paying attention to all that noise. Which is unfortunate because plenty of fans totally got it -- who wouldn't want to trade the paranoid, antagonistic culture in OKC at the time for the sweetness of what was going on in GS? To say nothing of the chance to win there. To say nothing of living in the Bay Area as opposed to Oklahoma. At least I certainly felt that way at the time
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 02:15 (four years ago) link
it was a hoe ass move tbqh
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 02:21 (four years ago) link
i think he was taken totally off guard by the reaction which he shdnt have been
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 02:22 (four years ago) link
a lot of the discussion around his decisions has an underlying assumption that there is a decision out there that would make him happy. i don't think the dude is really wired to be happy.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 02:26 (four years ago) link
sometime he shd just reflect on the fact that most people will never dunk in their entire lives
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 02:29 (four years ago) link
he doesnt want us to worry about his happiness, he even said so. maybe playing iso ball in brooklyn will make him happy idk. if hanging with kyrie is all he wanted then thats cool, hang away.
― big city slam (Spottie), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 04:33 (four years ago) link
I think Durant perceived some sort of new era where winning a title is all that matters, because LeBron more or less skated on abandoning his team. But he didn’t process that LeBron didn’t abandon Cleveland for a team that won SEVENTY THREE GAMES
― Matt Armstrong, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 18:47 (four years ago) link
Nah, LeBron got just as much hate when he went to the Heat. The Decision + bringing Bosh with him more than made up for the Warriors dynasty fueling the animosity towards Durant. But LeBron had one season where it got to him and then learned to dgaf. Durant never figured it out and he's gonna be disappointed to find that whatever he's trying to move past, they have it in Brooklyn too. But he doesn't want us to care if he's happy so
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:03 (four years ago) link
LeBron didn’t abandon Cleveland for a team that won SEVENTY THREE GAMES
― Matt Armstrong, Wednesday, September 11, 2019 2:47 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
yeah if kd had gone anywhere else not many ppl wldve cared
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:50 (four years ago) link
if bron had just done a humble goodbye to cleveland letter instead of the decision he wldve got a lot less hassle too
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:51 (four years ago) link
at least kd didn't curse us with the phrase 'taking talents to _____'
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:56 (four years ago) link
hopefully he did remember to bring his talents with him tho
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:59 (four years ago) link
LeBron also felt like the undisputed leader of the Heat even w/Wade there, Bosh was just a chill guy, it was a good vibe. If there was any drama, it was minor. I wouldn't be surprised if that four-year period was LeBron's happiest run in the NBA.
Durant moved to GS and it was just weird, not just the mercenary "hey can i get a ring too?" feel but the personality fit. there was already a clear all-time star player plus huge personalities and already three future HOFers, there was no room for him to step up and feel comfortable in that locker room. obv in the end he felt like it was a thankless endeavor, despite him being a top 3 NBA player he's got Dray sonning him in front of the world on the sideline and other shit like that i'm sure behind the scenes.
― omar little, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 21:00 (four years ago) link
dray was not having kds bs lol
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 21:03 (four years ago) link
draymond is the best. ripped the bandaid off early in the season. weirdest part of the whole thing was when KD went into weird passive aggressive im not gonna shoot the ball mode for a few weeks and the team went on a run. i think he and the team were all cool but just in different phases of their lives.
― big city slam (Spottie), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 21:59 (four years ago) link
NBA Future Power Rankings: Outlook for all 30 teams
5:18 AM MTKevin Pelton and Bobby Marks
How will your team perform over the next three NBA seasons?
The Future Power Rankings are ESPN Insider's projection of the on-court success expected for each team in the 2019-20, 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons.
Consider this a convenient way to see the direction in which your favorite team is headed.
To determine the Future Power Rankings, we asked ESPN Insider analysts Kevin Pelton and Bobby Marks to rate teams in five categories and rank them relative to the rest of the league. For an explanation of each category and a full view of how each team did in each individual category, click here. Each team also received an overall Future Power Rating of 0 to 100, based on how well we expect it to perform in the next three seasons.
Here are our latest rankings.
Note: The previous version of these rankings dropped in March.
1. LA ClippersRANK SCOREPlayers 1 87.5Management T-1 85.0Money 23 37.5Market 3 87.5Draft T-24 25.0Overall: 77.7The largest year-to-year jump in the decade-long history of these rankings saw the Clippers go from 21st in the fall of 2018 to No. 1 overall after signing reigning Finals MVP Kawhi Leonard as a free agent and trading for Paul George to team with him.
The Clippers had already moved into the top 10 by the spring, when they were headed to an unexpected 48-win season and had added draft picks and guard Landry Shamet in the savvy Tobias Harris trade. But it wasn't clear whether the Clippers could land the coveted Leonard, which ultimately required sending out a historic haul of draft picks and swaps to the Oklahoma City Thunder for George.
Having retained quality role players to support Leonard and George, the Clippers should be considered title favorites this season and likely in 2020-21 as well before both stars can become free agents in the summer of 2021.
-- Pelton
(Previous rank: No. 8)
2. Brooklyn NetsRANK SCOREPlayers T-6 77.5Management T-4 80.0Money T-25 32.5Market T-4 85.0Draft T-16 50.0Overall: 72.5If the Future Power Rankings were based on the upcoming season alone, the Nets would not be in the top 10. Instead, Brooklyn moves up 10 spots to No. 2 because of what lies beyond this season.
The return of Kevin Durant will move the Nets from a middle-of-the-pack playoff team now to one that should compete for an NBA championship. Despite Brooklyn ranking No. 25 in money, the addition of Durant, Kyrie Irving and Taurean Prince plus new deals for Caris LeVert and Spencer Dinwiddie has the core group of players under contract through at least 2021-22.
Even with limited cap flexibility, general manager Sean Marks and his front office (No. 4 in management) have shown a propensity of finding under-the-radar players in free agency (Joe Harris and Dinwiddie) and identifying talent in the late first round (LeVert and Jarrett Allen). The Nets also could have two first-round picks in June, from Philadelphia and Golden State (though perhaps not their own pick).
-- Marks
(Previous rank: No. 12)
3. Golden State WarriorsRANK SCOREPlayers T-6 77.5Management T-1 85.0Money T-27 22.5Market T-2 90.0Draft T-24 25.0Overall: 70.8For the first time in five years, the Warriors have fallen from their comfortable perch at No. 1. That's the product of a ruinous four-week stretch during which Golden State saw All-Stars Kevin Durant (Achilles) and Klay Thompson (ACL) suffer devastating injuries, and then lost Durant to the Brooklyn Nets in free agency.
Still, there's reason to believe the Warriors can resume contention once Thompson returns to the court. Golden State aggressively pivoted by agreeing to a sign-and-trade deal to bring D'Angelo Russell from the Nets. How Russell will fit with the core of Stephen Curry, Draymond Green and Thompson remains to be seen, and the move gutted the Warriors' bench this season, but they will have a window next summer to utilize a $17.2 million trade exception created in the Andre Iguodala deal. At worst, Russell would be valuable in a trade coming off an All-Star season at age 23.
(Previous rank: No. 1)
4. Houston RocketsRANK SCOREPlayers T-3 82.5Management T-4 80.0Money 29 20.0Market 7 65.0Draft T-29 20.0Overall: 70.2After swinging a bold deal to re-team former MVP Russell Westbrook with his onetime Oklahoma City teammate James Harden, the Rockets rank near the bottom of the league in both financial flexibility and future draft picks. Yet Houston still sits fourth overall thanks to the star duo and quality supporting talent that's signed up through at least 2021 after guard Eric Gordon agreed to an extension this offseason.
There are long-term reasons for concern as Westbrook ages and the bulk of the picks and swaps the Rockets gave up for him (and to move Chris Paul's contract) comes due, but over the next three years, the biggest issue might be on the sidelines. Mike D'Antoni, the 2016-17 coach of the year, enters the final season of his contract after extension negotiations broke down this summer. Houston also lost assistant Jeff Bzdelik, who oversaw the team's defensive improvement in 2017-18.
(Previous rank: No. 7)
5. Denver NuggetsRANK SCOREPlayers T-3 82.5Management T-6 77.5Money T-25 32.5Market 18 45.0Draft T-27 22.5Overall: 69.4The Nuggets slide two spots not because of anything that went wrong, but rather due to the success other West contenders enjoyed this offseason.
Riding a breakthrough campaign from All-NBA first-team center Nikola Jokic, Denver returned to the playoffs for the first time since 2013 and got within a game of the conference finals. The Nuggets are counting on continuity and internal development to keep up with the West's top tier, though their one key addition -- Jerami Grant -- looks like an ideal fit as Paul Millsap's possible long-term replacement at power forward.
Letting Millsap walk would help Denver manage payroll with Jamal Murray's max extension kicking in next summer, which will hamper flexibility. Still, Denver should remain competitive with a strong core of young talent that could get another boost if 2018 lottery pick Michael Porter Jr. proves healthy and as effective as he was before multiple back surgeries.
(Previous rank: No. 3)
Jeff Chiu/AP Photo 6. Los Angeles LakersRANK SCOREPlayers T-3 82.5Management T-23 35.0Money 16 50.0Market 1 92.5Draft T-27 22.5Overall: 67.7Having added Anthony Davis via trade to LeBron James to create arguably the NBA's best duo, the Lakers moved up to third in the roster category. Yet the Lakers still rank just sixth overall because of our lack of faith in their management.
No other team in the top 10 rates below average in this category. GM Rob Pelinka gained decision-making power after president Magic Johnson abruptly resigned before the Lakers' 2018-19 finale, and though he oversaw the Davis deal, Pelinka's track record has been mixed.
The Lakers couldn't land their top choice for head coach, Tyronn Lue -- who went to the Clippers as an assistant -- and settled on Frank Vogel. If the Lakers start slowly, speculation on assistant Jason Kidd replacing Vogel will run rampant. If James regains his crown as the NBA's best player, however, it's possible off-court issues won't hinder the Lakers' title chances.
(Previous rank: No. 11)
7. Philadelphia 76ersRANK SCOREPlayers 2 85.0Management 14 65.0Money 30 10Market T-13 50.0Draft T-24 25.0Overall: 67.5It is almost unfair that Philadelphia moved down three spots. The roster is ranked No. 2 after the acquisitions of Al Horford and Josh Richardson and new deals for Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris. Even after losing Jimmy Butler and JJ Redick, the 76ers are still viewed as one of the favorites to come out of the East.
The concern moving forward is the $580 million investment in four players, starting in 2020-21: Joel Embiid, Simmons, Horford and Harris. The team will live in the luxury tax for the foreseeable future, and improvement will come only from within or if management is willing to make Embiid or Simmons available in a trade. As a result of those commitments, Philadelphia now ranks No. 30 in money.
(Previous rank: No. 4)
8. Boston CelticsRANK SCOREPlayers T-9 72.5Management T-12 70.0Money T-27 22.5Market T-8 62.5Draft T-6 75.0Overall: 67.3Despite not ranking in the top two for the first time since September 2015, Boston is well positioned for the future. While the team fell in every category except for market, the Celtics are still in the top 10 when it comes to their roster, draft assets and management.
Compared to a year ago, the Celtics replaced the uncertain future of Kyrie Irving with a four-year commitment from All-Star Kemba Walker, and they still have a young core of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum along with veterans Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart and now Enes Kanter.
The Celtics' treasure chest of draft assets also remains full. While they no longer have the coveted Sacramento Kings first-round pick, they still possess all their own firsts, along with a top-seven protected first from Memphis and top-eight protected first from Milwaukee in 2020. The first from Memphis could be the best asset any team in the league has because it becomes unprotected in 2021 if not conveyed.
Boston fell in the money category because of how the future shapes up -- Brown is scheduled to be a restricted free agent in 2020 and Tatum the following year.
(Previous rank: No. 2)
9. Milwaukee BucksRANK SCOREPlayers T-9 72.5Management T-1 85.0Money T-18 45.0Market T-15 47.5Draft T-20 35.0Overall: 67.1The Bucks advanced to the Eastern Conference finals, returned four out of five starters, are the favorites to come out of the East and still fell three spots in the rankings.
The small slide comes because of two factors: the loss of Malcolm Brogdon in free agency and what the future might hold for Giannis Antetokounmpo. If the MVP commits next summer to a $254 million supermax contract, Milwaukee should jump into the top five. If he doesn't, a cloud of uncertainty -- like with New Orleans and Anthony Davis -- will follow next season, possibly the last with Antetokounmpo in a Milwaukee uniform.
One bright note is that Milwaukee now has a top spot in management. The Bucks have the returning coach of the year in Mike Budenholzer, a creative front office led by Jon Horst and a committed ownership group.
(Previous rank: No. 6)
10. Utah JazzRANK SCOREPlayers T-6 77.5Management T-6 77.5Money 24 35.0Market T-25 33.5Draft T-20 35.0Overall: 66.7More than anyone else, the Jazz slid in the rankings because of the way other teams improved this summer. Utah did, too, but it came at a long-term cost: The Jazz gave up two first-round picks plus 2018 first-rounder Grayson Allen to get stalwart point guard Mike Conley, then spent their remaining cap space on a four-year, $73 million deal for Bojan Bogdanovic.
Assuming Utah extends the contracts of All-Star center Rudy Gobert (who will be eligible for the supermax) and guard Donovan Mitchell next summer, the Jazz won't have cap space or quality draft picks any time soon. That tradeoff will be well worth it if Utah can parlay the shooting upgrade provided by Bogdanovic and Conley into the team's deepest playoff run since making the conference finals in 2007.
Long term, the Jazz's best hope for improvement is Mitchell developing into an All-Star centerpiece.
(Previous rank: No. 5)
Jonathan Ferrey/Getty Images 11. Portland Trail BlazersRANK SCOREPlayers 11 70Management T-9 75.0Money 20 42.5Market T-15 47.5Draft T-16 50.0Overall: 65.0By extending the contracts of guards Damian Lillard (who agreed to a four-year supermax extension through 2024-25) and CJ McCollum (who added three years through 2023-24), the Blazers answered the biggest questions about their future. Now a different challenge comes into focus: Can Portland maintain a contender while paying the two guards a combined $70-plus million per year?
Neil Olshey won't have to deal with that issue until 2021-22, when Lillard's extension kicks in, but there are key decisions between now and then. In newcomers Kent Bazemore and Hassan Whiteside, the Blazers have two huge expiring contracts that could be used to trade for a long-term deal (say, Oregon native Kevin Love?) if the team is willing to keep paying the luxury tax.
Those decisions might depend on how Zach Collins develops as a starter and how Jusuf Nurkic comes back from a compound lower leg fracture suffered last March.
(Previous rank: No. 9)
12. San Antonio SpursRANK SCOREPlayers T-15 57.5Management T-9 75.0Money 7 65.0Market T-11 52.5Draft T-9 60.0Overall: 60.8Remarkably, the Spurs are the only team to rank better than average in every category we consider, a testament to the options in front of a San Antonio front office now led by GM Brian Wright with R.C. Buford moving into the larger role of CEO.
The Spurs are competing now with veteran All-Stars LaMarcus Aldridge and DeMar DeRozan, but have developed a new wave of young talent led by guards Dejounte Murray and Derrick White.
If San Antonio wants to move on from Aldridge and DeRozan, there's potential for max-level cap space in either 2020 (when DeRozan has a player option and Aldridge's contract is partially guaranteed) or 2021 (when both deals are up). Alternatively, the Spurs could extend or re-sign Aldridge and DeRozan to delay a change of direction until after legendary coach Gregg Popovich (now age 70) decides to call it a Hall of Fame career.
(Previous rank: No. 14)
13. Dallas MavericksRANK SCOREPlayers 12 67.5Management T-15 62.5Money 17 47.5Market 10 55.0Draft T-29 20.0Overall: 60.0Unable to land a max-caliber free agent this summer, the Mavericks have largely locked in their core for the next couple of years. They won't have appreciable cap space again until Tim Hardaway Jr.'s contract expires in the summer of 2021.
Between now and then, Dallas is counting on the development of 2018-19 Rookie of the Year Luka Doncic and newcomer Kristaps Porzingis -- set to return 20 months after tearing his ACL playing for the New York Knicks -- to get back to the playoffs after a three-year drought.
It's particularly important that the Mavericks become competitive by 2021, when they're set to send an unprotected first-round pick to New York to complete the Porzingis trade. If Porzingis reclaims his All-Star form and Doncic takes a step forward in Year 2, Dallas could crack the top 10 by the next installment.
(Previous rank: No. 13)
14. New Orleans PelicansRANK SCOREPlayers 14 60.0Management T-17 55.0Money T-8 62.5Market T-21 37.5Draft T-6 75.0Overall: 58.8No team improved its future projection more from the spring than the Pelicans, owing to a combination of good decisions and good fortune. The latter came in the draft lottery, when New Orleans landed the coveted No. 1 pick and the chance to draft Duke forward Zion Williamson first overall.
The good decisions started with hiring David Griffin to run basketball operations. Griffin satisfied Davis' request for a trade but squeezed just about everything possible out of the Lakers: budding talents Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart and Brandon Ingram, three first-round picks and a swap. The Pelicans then flipped one of those picks, this year's No. 4 selection, to Atlanta for two first-rounders (Nickeil Alexander-Walker and Jaxson Hayes, who both impressed at the NBA summer league). With so much young talent on hand, New Orleans could add veterans Derrick Favors and JJ Redick this summer without sacrificing future flexibility.
(Previous rank: No. 27)
15. Miami HeatRANK SCOREPlayers 17 55.0Management T-15 62.5Money T-10 57.5Market 6 82.5Draft 23 32.5Overall: 56.9There is light at the end of the tunnel of mediocrity for Miami. After falling outside of the top 15 in March for only the second time since 2009, the Heat return at No. 15.
The addition of Jimmy Butler to a young core led by Justise Winslow, Bam Adebayo and rookie Tyler Herro gives Miami its boost. The Heat are still in salary-cap purgatory this season but are set to receive relief when the contracts of Goran Dragic and Meyers Leonard expire in July and those of James Johnson, Dion Waiters and Kelly Olynyk expire in 2021. As a result, Miami moves from No. 15 to No. 10 in money and will have the ability to add a second max player to join Butler two years from now.
(Previous rank: No. 19)
Jesse D. Garrabrant/NBAE via Getty Images 16. Indiana PacersRANK SCOREPlayers T-15 57.5Management 11 72.5Money T-14 52.5Market T-25 32.5Draft T-20 35.0Overall: 55.6Indiana lost three starters in the offseason, have Victor Oladipo rehabbing from a knee injury that cost him most of last season and still dropped only one spot in the rankings. The Pacers stayed away from a bottom-10 ranking because of strong management (No. 11) and a playoff-worthy roster (No. 15) that adds Malcolm Brogdon, Jeremy Lamb and T.J. Warren.
Those three players and Myles Turner are under contract through at least the 2021-22 season. So the big variables are whether Oladipo can return to his All-Star form and how the Pacers handle contract negotiations with Domantas Sabonis. The forward can be a restricted free agent next summer if he is not extended by Oct. 21.
(Previous rank: No. 15)
17. Atlanta HawksRANK SCOREPlayers T-18 50.0Management 19 47.5Money 1 97.5Market 19 42.5Draft T-4 77.5Overall: 55.2The committee of two is still a big fan of the future in Atlanta despite the Hawks' one-spot drop in the rankings.
The No. 17 ranking comes from the Pelicans soaring past the Hawks more than anything Atlanta did this offseason. The Hawks have seven players on controllable rookie contracts, including a franchise-level talent in Trae Young and a potential All-Star in John Collins.
Atlanta will add two first-round picks next June, its own and Brooklyn's. The Hawks rank No. 2 in money, with continued cap flexibility of up to $70 million in room not only next summer but in 2021.
So if Atlanta is in playoff contention this season, don't be surprised to find the Hawks in the top 10 when the Future Power Rankings come out in March.
(Previous rank: No. 16)
18. Toronto RaptorsRANK SCOREPlayers T-20 47.5Management T-6 77.5Money 6 77.5Market T-11 52.5Draft 19 42.5Overall: 55.0The one-year, $31 million Kyle Lowry extension moved the needle a little for Toronto in our rankings. Before the new contract, the champs ranked No. 19 because of a roster with five players on expiring contracts -- Lowry, Pascal Siakam, Fred VanVleet, Serge Ibaka and Marc Gasol.
Lowry's extension is a sign the front office is not willing (for now) to break up a playoff team, but there is still uncertainty about what the future holds. Because half the roster consists of pending free agents, Toronto ranks No. 3 in money and could have over $30 million in room next year if it does not extend Siakam before Oct. 21. And the Raptors can wipe their finances clean in 2021 (with likely only Siakam under contract), when we once again will see a star-studded free-agent class.
But while it does rank as the No. 11 market, does Toronto have appeal when it comes to signing star free agents? The championship roster was constructed through the draft and trades.
(Previous rank: 17)
19. Sacramento KingsRANK SCOREPlayers 13 62.5Management 21 40.0Money T-21 40.0Market T-28 25.0Draft T-16 50.0Overall: 52.7Having moved out of the basement of the future rankings, the Kings remain in the same spot after a summer that saw them exchange financial flexibility for superior depth. Sacramento paid heavily to add guard Cory Joseph, forward Trevor Ariza and centers Dewayne Dedmon and Richaun Holmes as well as re-sign Harrison Barnes.
Believe it or not, the luxury tax could become an issue for the Kings by 2021-22 if they extend starting guards De'Aaron Fox and Buddy Hield and re-sign wing Bogdan Bogdanovic (also eligible for a veteran extension).
We'll file that under the category of good problems for the Kings, who finally appear to have a young core worth paying to keep around. If Fox and 2018 No. 2 pick Marvin Bagley continue progressing under new coach Luke Walton, Sacramento could conceivably end a 13-year playoff drought this season.
(Previous rank: No. 18)
20. Orlando MagicRANK SCOREPlayers T-18 50.0Management T-17 55.0Money T-21 40.0Market T-13 50.0Draft 8 67.5Overall: 51.5There is still upside to an 18th-ranked roster that won 42 games and made the playoffs for the first time in seven years.
The team will count on continuity with its starting five returning, and has multiple veterans under contract for at least three more years with a stable of young players, including Jonathan Isaac, Markelle Fultz, Mo Bamba and Chuma Okeke.
Isaac and Fultz are the X factors to move Orlando into the top half of the rankings.
(Previous rank: T-20)
Zach Beeker/NBAE via Getty Images 21. Oklahoma City ThunderRANK SCOREPlayers 25 37.5Management T-12 70.0Money T-10 57.5Market T-25 32.5Draft 1 95.0Overall: 49.0Back in the spring, the Thunder were getting an MVP-caliber season from Paul George, helping offset a slide in Russell Westbrook's play. Oklahoma City hoped for a long playoff run after back-to-back losses in the first round. That didn't materialize, as the Thunder slipped to sixth and were knocked out in five games by Portland.
That proved the end of an era. George privately requested a trade, and after he was dealt to the Clippers, Oklahoma City traded Westbrook as well. The moves, plus sending Grant to Denver, have given general manager Sam Presti a massive war chest of draft picks even more impressive than the ones he used to build the Thunder into a playoff team for a decade. Yet they also signaled the start of what Presti termed a "repositioning" that will likely take the franchise into the lottery for the first time since its inaugural season in Oklahoma City.
(Previous rank: No. 10)
22. Chicago BullsRANK SCOREPlayers T-20 47.5Management 29 27.5Money 13 55.0Market T-8 62.5Draft T-14 55.0Overall: 46.7Chicago fell slightly in the rankings but has the foundation in place to become a consistent playoff team. After relying mainly on the draft for a few years, the Bulls have begun taking a more aggressive approach by adding veterans, including Otto Porter Jr. at the trade deadline and free agents Tomas Satoransky and Thaddeus Young this summer.
Those three players now join potential All-Star Zach LaVine and recent lottery picks Coby White, Lauri Markkanen and Wendell Carter Jr.
Our concerns come largely off the court. The Bulls rank No. 29 in management and have put all their eggs in Jim Boylen's basket with a long-term contract for their new coach. If they continue to struggle, there will lots of blame to go around.
23. Detroit PistonsRANK SCOREPlayers 23 45.0Management 20 45.0Money T-10 57.5Market T-21 37.5Draft T-14 55.0Overall: 46.3Detroit cannot shake mediocrity, as the Pistons have found a home in the 20s in our rankings. That's despite making the playoffs last season and having All-Star Blake Griffin under contract for the next three seasons.
With Griffin, the Pistons can't easily bottom out and commit to rebuilding. Yet with a patchwork roster of veterans and younger players still in development, Detroit also doesn't project as a likely East contender. With Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson due for free agency in 2020, the Pistons are No. 10 in potentially available money, but without a track record of luring top free agents.
(Previous rank: T-23)
24. Phoenix SunsRANK SCOREPlayers 24 42.5Management T-27 30.0Money T-8 62.5Market T-15 47.5Draft T-9 60.0Overall: 44.0The Suns have cleaned house in basketball operations, naming James Jones full-time GM in April (under new vice president Jeff Bower) and replacing Igor Kokoskov after a single season as coach with the respected Monty Williams, along with a number of additional changes behind the scenes. Yet you'll forgive us if we want more proof that what has been one of the NBA's most dysfunctional organizations is truly headed in the right direction.
Phoenix upgraded with NBA-caliber talent this summer, adding Ricky Rubio in free agency and Aron Baynes and Dario Saric via trade to complement young cornerstones Devin Booker and Deandre Ayton. Projections using ESPN's real plus-minus suggest the Suns could challenge .500 after losing at least 58 games each of the past four seasons.
However, Phoenix made other befuddling moves, giving up quality second-round picks to move forwards Josh Jackson and T.J. Warren and unexpectedly taking North Carolina forward Cameron Johnson in the lottery.
(Previous rank: No. 26)
25. Minnesota TimberwolvesRANK SCOREPlayers T-20 47.5Management T-23 35.0Money T-18 45.0Market 30 15.0Draft 13 57.5Overall: 43.3After ranking as high as fifth in the future rankings entering the 2017-18 season, the Timberwolves drop for a fourth consecutive installment. It's up to new president of basketball operations Gersson Rosas to arrest that slide once he's got more flexibility to build the team he wants.
Rosas' big splash in his first offseason at the helm was a draft-day trade up to No. 6 overall to take Texas Tech product Jarrett Culver. Adding Culver to a group including defensive stalwart Robert Covington, former No. 1 pick Andrew Wiggins and 2018 first-round pick Josh Okogie gives Minnesota a crowd on the wing, and the natural conclusion is Rosas -- a longtime assistant GM under Daryl Morey in Houston -- has more deals in store as the Timberwolves seek to build a competitive group in time to keep newly extended All-Star Karl-Anthony Towns from considering a trade request.
(Previous rank: No. 22)
Mark J. Rebilas/USA TODAY Sports 26. New York KnicksRANK SCOREPlayers 28 22.5Management 22 37.5Money 2 92.5Market T-4 85.0Draft 2 90.0Overall: 41.7Instead of focusing on the summer of missed free-agent opportunities or lament how New York used cap space to build the roster, we will focus on the positives. Because the Knicks rank No. 2 in both draft assets and cap space, there will be opportunities in the future to escape the bottom five.
New York has all its own future first-round picks, plus an unprotected first from Dallas in 2021 and the ability to shape its roster either next summer or in 2021 because of how the Knicks structured each free-agent contract signed this past offseason. But with so much uncertainty on a roster dominated by unproven young players and those same short-term contracts, the Knicks rank No. 28 when it comes to players.
New York can look to Brooklyn for hope. Two years ago, the Nets ranked one spot worse than where the Knicks are now.
(Previous rank: No. T-23)
27. Memphis GrizzliesRANK SCOREPlayers 26 35.0Management T-23 35.0Money 3 85.0Market T-28 25.0Draft T-9 60.0Overall: 40.4The Grit 'n' Grind era in Memphis officially ended with Conley's trade to Utah months after Gasol was dealt to the Toronto Raptors. Yet there's hope the Grizzlies can build a new contending core around No. 2 overall pick Ja Morant and All-Rookie first-team pick Jaren Jackson Jr., even if it comes after the three-year future rankings window.
A front-office shakeup last spring empowered new executive vice president of basketball operations Zach Kleiman, and the group he built handled this offseason well. Memphis got two first-rounders for Conley and another to take on Iguodala's contract.
With several big expiring contracts, including Iguodala's, the Grizzlies are looking at $40-plus million in cap space next summer to make more such trades. If the Morant-Jackson duo develops as expected, Memphis will have plenty of flexibility to build around them.
(Previous rank: No. 29)
28. Washington WizardsRANK SCOREPlayers 27 25.0Management T-27 30.0Money T-14 52.5Market 19 42.5Draft T-9 60.0Overall: 32.5One year (and two editions of FPR) ago, Washington ranked No. 12 and featured one of the top backcourts in John Wall and Bradley Beal. Now the Wizards rank No. 28 and face a more uncertain future.
Wall has $170 million left on his contract as he recovers from a torn Achilles tendon, and Beal's future is uncertain. While Beal is under contract for the next two seasons, the shooting guard is the Wizards' best trade asset if Washington decides to tear down the roster and start over. He is eligible to sign a $112 million extension until Oct. 21 and could be supermax-eligible next summer if he earns All-NBA this season.
Not all is doom and gloom, though. New Washington GM Tommy Sheppard and a revamped front office have acknowledged that the focus will be on player development (Troy Brown, Thomas Bryant and Rui Hachimura) and say they will not take the kind of shortcuts that hampered this team in the past.
(Previous rank: No. 25)
29. Cleveland CavaliersRANK SCOREPlayers 29 17.5Management 26 32.5Money 5 80.0Market T-23 35.0Draft 3 85.0Overall: 32.3The Cavs do have some positives despite falling to No. 29. They rank in our top 10 in both money and draft assets. They have five players with expiring contracts -- Tristan Thompson, Brandon Knight, Jordan Clarkson, John Henson and Matthew Dellavedova -- that can be used in trades during the season to take back salary, as Cleveland did with Kyle Korver and George Hill. From those trades the Cavs ultimately added nine draft picks and could try something similar this year. They could also shop Love, of course.
With Love's future uncertain and a talented but unproven backcourt, the roster ranks just No. 29. Now we'll find out how new coach John Beilein transitions from a winning college program at Michigan to one that is not expected to win more than 20 games.
(Previous rank: No. 28)
30. Charlotte HornetsRANK SCOREPlayers 30 15.0Management 30 12.5Money 4 82.5Market T-23 35.0Draft T-4 77.5Overall: 27.1Kemba Walker's departure is not the reason Charlotte sits in last place. Even with Walker on the roster, the Hornets have ranked last since March 2018.
The biggest reason is the lack of vision from ownership and the front office. While it was one thing to lose Walker for nothing in free agency, it was another when the Hornets compounded the mistake by paying starter money for a career backup in Terry Rozier.
The Hornets' No. 4 ranking in likely draft assets is a plus, but their past three lottery picks -- Malik Monk, Miles Bridges and PJ Washington -- haven't done enough to lift the 30th-ranked roster.
Some potential good news comes with three big contracts set to expire next summer: those for Bismack Biyombo, Marvin Williams and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. The Hornets could have up to $25 million in 2020, the first time the team has had cap flexibility since 2016. But as we saw with Rozier, we should not feel comfortable that Charlotte will spend wisely.
(Previous rank: No. 30)
― lag∞n, Thursday, 10 October 2019 16:25 (four years ago) link
ty ty
― k3vin k., Thursday, 10 October 2019 22:06 (four years ago) link
http://insider.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/27893998/projected-w-l-records-standings-every-nba-team
por favor
― de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Monday, 21 October 2019 17:25 (four years ago) link
Projected W-L records, standings for every NBA teamOct 21, 2019Kevin Pelton
On the eve of the 2019-20 NBA season, let's take a final look at our projections using ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM). These differ from our initial projections, released in mid-August, by incorporating injuries and roster changes since then, as well as updating my guesses at playing time based on preseason rotations.
While it has certainly been an eventful month in the NBA, preseason seems to have had less impact on the projected standings than in most years. No. 1 overall pick Zion Williamson was the only starter to suffer what appears to be a potentially long-term injury, meaning changes in the projections are more attributable to rotations shaking out around the league than any other factor. After a quick explanation, let's get to our final projections.
How do the projections work?
Our RPM projections utilize the multiyear, predictive version of RPM as a starting point. They're adjusted for typical player aging and -- new for this season -- then regressed toward the player's projected offensive rating and defensive rating from my SCHOENE projection system, based solely on box-score stats. (For players without RPM projections, including rookies, the SCHOENE ratings are used instead.)
Get the best of ESPN sent to your inboxThe ESPN Daily delivers the biggest sports news and moments every weekday.Email AddressSign me up!Privacy PolicyRead the LatestGames played are projected based on time missed over the previous three seasons. I then make a subjective guess at minutes distributions for each team. (You can see my full minutes projections here.) Multiplying those minutes by players' offensive and defensive ratings yields team ratings that translate into expected wins. I used those projections to simulate the season 10,000 times and record the average number of wins as well as how often each team made the playoffs.
Why are these projections so compact?
Amazingly, just three teams are projected for more than 50 wins this year. In part, this is a product of the conservative nature of projections. While we know that more than three teams will win 50-plus games, we don't know for sure beforehand which teams will do so.
That said, the parity the RPM-based model forecasts appears unique to this season. Using the exact same method with 2018-19 projections yielded six teams with projections of 50-plus wins and a seventh whose projection rounded up to 50.
What makes this season so wide open?
Besides the absence of a single dominant team, with the Golden State Warriors weakened by injury and attrition, this season is also unique because of the level of roster turnover this summer. I project just 62% of minutes leaguewide to be played by returning players, as compared to 76% in 2018-19. That's important because of the tweak to the projections I made last year to treat players who change teams differently from those who remain with the same team.
Regressing projections toward the player's SCHOENE projections rather than league average improved out-of-sample projections and no longer penalizes stars quite so harshly for changing teams. Still, it's clear that even stars do pay an RPM price for changing teams.
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Within the sample I used for testing (back through 2012-13), 13 players who posted an RPM of 5.0 or better changed teams. On average, their RPM declined from 6.0 to 3.3. By comparison, players with an RPM of 5.0 or better who stay with the same team see a much smaller drop-off, from an average of 6.4 to 4.8. This effect is particularly relevant for the Brooklyn Nets, LA Clippers and Los Angeles Lakers, all of whom added players whose projections would rank among the NBA's top 15 if not for the adjustment.
Given that, it's no surprise that the top three teams in the projections all had a relatively high degree of continuity this offseason and return three of last season's top five players in RPM.
Western Conference
1. Houston RocketsAverage wins: 54.9Playoffs: >99%
Counterintuitively, the Rockets' projection actually went up slightly with Gerald Green presumed out for the season with a possible Lisfranc fracture in his left foot. I assigned most of his minutes to Thabo Sefolosha, who projects slightly better by RPM.
Still, losing Green should test Houston's depth. The Rockets are already essentially down one spot because they can play Nene in only nine games before risking him earning a $2.4 million bonus that would take them into the luxury tax. Green's absence would cost them another spot, so minor injuries could severely compromise the Rockets' rotation.
2. Denver NuggetsAverage wins: 53.6Playoffs: 99%
Given they return a league-high 88% of last season's minutes and have enviable depth with the additions of Jerami Grant and rookie Michael Porter Jr., the Nuggets might have the highest floor of any team this season. If you're picking the most likely team to win 50 games, it's probably Denver, coming off 54 wins in 2018-19.
3. LA ClippersAverage wins: 47.1Playoffs: 87%
The Clippers' modest regular-season projection dipped further with the acknowledgment by coach Doc Rivers that All-Star wing Paul George will miss at least the first 10 games of the season. Though rumors were already swirling back in August that George would not be ready for opening night, I hadn't yet docked his projection any games in the original version.
4. Utah JazzAverage wins: 46.8Playoffs: 86%
In part because Mike Conley is conservatively projected for 64 games, the Jazz's offensive projection (11th in the league) might undersell their room for improvement. They hope to combine an offense that generated the league's highest-value shots (their quantified shot quality of 54.8% was the league's best, per Second Spectrum tracking) with shooters capable of actually taking advantage of those opportunities.
5. Los Angeles LakersAverage wins: 46.4Playoffs: 84%
Technically, DeMarcus Cousins' ACL tear occurred after the original projections, which we updated later that week once the injury was confirmed. The addition of Dwight Howard, projected slightly better than replacement level for a center, didn't do much to affect the Lakers' outlook either way.
6. Golden State WarriorsAverage wins: 45.6Playoffs: 80%
Golden State's projection declined a touch with Alfonzo McKinnie's minutes going to rookies Eric Paschall and Jordan Poole after he was waived to make room on the roster for training-camp invitee Marquese Chriss.
7. Dallas MavericksAverage wins: 43.9Playoffs: 68%
The Mavericks' position as a solid playoff team ahead of two teams that reached the playoffs last season (Portland and San Antonio) remains one of the biggest surprises from RPM's projections, but it's an outlook shared by many stat-based projections. FiveThirtyEight's similar RAPTOR model has Dallas averaging 45 wins, the West's eighth-best total.
8. Portland Trail BlazersAverage wins: 40.6Playoffs: 42%
At Blazers media day, All-NBA guard Damian Lillard told reporters, "What the experts' percentages of us making the playoffs are, that's I would say the least of our concerns." There's certainly a disconnect between Portland's internal expectations of competing for a championship and its statistical projections (FiveThirtyEight also has the Blazers at 41 wins on average and less than 50/50 to make the playoffs).
9. Sacramento KingsAverage wins: 39.8Playoffs: 35%
While the Kings' projection is close to the 39 games they won last season, it still represents a huge step forward from this time a year ago. Sacramento's 26.1-win projection entering 2018-19 was the league's second lowest.
10. Minnesota TimberwolvesAverage wins: 39.5Playoffs: 32%
Minnesota star Karl-Anthony Towns told Marc J. Spears of The Undefeated that observers should "keep sleeping on us," but statistical projections aren't. FiveThirtyEight's model is even more bullish on the Timberwolves, who average 43 wins in those projections.
11. San Antonio SpursAverage wins: 38.6Playoffs: 26%
If the Spurs were any other team, we'd look at their weak projections and rough preseason (San Antonio's minus-6.4 net rating ranked 28th in the league, per NBA Advanced Stats) and say their 22-year playoff streak is in grave jeopardy. However, betting against Gregg Popovich's teams has typically been a losing proposition.
12. Phoenix SunsAverage wins: 38.2Playoffs: 23%
With Zion's injury, the Suns jumped New Orleans. The 8.2-win difference between Phoenix's RPM projection and the team's over/under win total (30) at Caesars Sportsbook is the single largest in the NBA.
13. New Orleans PelicansAverage wins: 37.5Playoffs: 19%
As noted in Friday's analysis of Williamson's injury, projecting him out for the team's first 20 games costs New Orleans 0.7 wins on average and drops the team's chances of making the playoffs from 22% beforehand.
14. Oklahoma City ThunderAverage wins: 36.7Playoffs: 15%
To illustrate the depth of this year's West, last year's No. 14 team in the projections was Sacramento at the aforementioned 26.1 wins. That depth could end up altering Oklahoma City's outlook. If the Thunder are actually 14th in the West, they'll likely trade impending free agent Danilo Gallinari by the deadline.
15. Memphis GrizzliesAverage wins: 32.4Playoffs: 3%
For a likely last-place team in their conference, the Grizzlies figure to be competitive behind veterans Jonas Valanciunas and Jae Crowder and their young core of Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr. Remarkably, they win more games on average than the bottom four teams in the East.
Eastern Conference
1. Milwaukee BucksAverage wins: 50.7Playoffs: 99%
Though the Bucks' win projection is rather modest, they're the only team in the league forecast to finish in the top five in both offensive (fourth) and defensive (first) rating. Houston (second in offensive rating, sixth on defense) just misses out.
2. Boston CelticsAverage wins: 47.4Playoffs: 95%
Because of their strong perimeter defenders, the Celtics are projected to finish seventh in defensive rating. That might overstate Boston's potential with weakened rim protection after losing both Al Horford and Aron Baynes.
3. Philadelphia 76ersAverage wins: 47.2Playoffs: 95%
As a reminder, Philadelphia's modest win projection owes in large part to both Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons being projected for 66 games based on time missed over the past three seasons. While that seems reasonable for Embiid, who has averaged 63.5 games the past two years, it's harsh for Simmons. After sitting out his entire first season, Simmons played all but four games over 2017-18 and 2018-19.
4. Orlando MagicAverage wins: 46.4Playoffs: 93%
Orlando still finishes fourth in the East on average, even with a shift to give Mo Bamba primary backup center minutes instead of the higher-rated Khem Birch. Bamba averaged 17.6 minutes to Birch's 12.8 in the preseason and is looking more productive than he was as a rookie.
5. Toronto RaptorsAverage wins: 45.8Playoffs: 91%
The Kyle Lowry extension makes it all the more likely that the Raptors will keep what's left of the championship team intact and contend for home-court advantage in the first round instead of tearing it down at midseason. Of course, big changes will likewise shift their projections.
6. Miami HeatAverage wins: 43.0Playoffs: 78%
Despite the excitement over his preseason play, Tyler Herro projects worse than replacement level as a rookie based on his translated performance at Kentucky. In particular, Herro is unlikely to keep shooting so well on jumpers. He made 20 of 38 attempts outside the paint during the preseason (53%), as compared to 41% in college, according to Synergy Sports tracking.
7. Indiana PacersAverage wins: 42.2Playoffs: 73%
A key question for the Pacers is when Victor Oladipo will return from a quadriceps tendon rupture and how much he'll play thereafter. Oladipo is projected here for 49 games and a little less than 1,400 minutes under the assumption he'll be back in mid-December.
8. Brooklyn NetsAverage wins: 41.3Playoffs: 65%
It's worth watching how well the Nets play defensively. Their 109.0 defensive rating last season was almost exactly league average, but the team's top six regulars in on-court defensive rating, according to NBA Advanced Stats (Ed Davis, Shabazz Napier, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, DeMarre Carroll, Allen Crabbe and Treveon Graham) all left over the offseason. That helps explain why Brooklyn is projected to decline to 23rd defensively.
9. Detroit PistonsAverage wins: 39.6Playoffs: 52%
Detroit's projection benefits slightly from the news that preseason standout Christian Wood will make the team. Giving him some of the minutes previously assigned to Thon Maker strengthens the Pistons' rotation in terms of projected RPM.
10. Chicago BullsAverage wins: 38.9Playoffs: 46%
Similarly, Chicago could benefit if opening-night starter Tomas Satoransky establishes himself as the clear choice at point guard ahead of Kris Dunn and rookie Coby White, who projects as an ineffective contributor during his first season.
11. Washington WizardsAverage wins: 33.0Playoffs: 9%
The Wizards project as a deep fringe playoff contender in the East exclusively because of All-Star shooting guard Bradley Beal. He alone projects to 9.2 wins above replacement based on RPM, as compared to 1.3 wins below replacement for the rest of the Washington roster.
12. Atlanta HawksAverage wins: 30.7Playoffs: 3%
After a strong second half, the Hawks are a trendy pick to take a step forward this season. That hype is likely a year ahead of schedule. There's scant evidence that in-season improvement tends to carry over to the following campaign, and Atlanta is projected to finish 28th in defensive rating.
13. Charlotte HornetsAverage wins: 30.1Playoffs: 3%
Despite significant rotation adjustments as the Hornets committed to their young players during the preseason, starting recent first-round picks Miles Bridges and PJ Washington together at forward, the Hornets' win projection barely budged at all -- probably an indication Charlotte is right to sit the veterans.
14. Cleveland CavaliersAverage wins: 26.2Playoffs: <1%
The Cavaliers' final record may depend largely on how much Kevin Love plays this season after being limited to 22 games in 2018-19. He's projected here for 60 games and about 1,700 minutes, similar to his 2017-18 total. Cleveland was 6.9 points per 100 possessions better with Love on the court, per NBA Advanced Stats.
15. New York KnicksAverage wins: 26.1Playoffs: <1%
Out of the 10,000 simulations of the season, the Knicks made the playoffs a league-low 31 times -- 0.3% of the time.
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 22:03 (four years ago) link
You know you're in trouble when:
"The Cavaliers' final record may depend largely on how much Kevin Love plays this season"
― DJI, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 23:26 (four years ago) link
https://theathletic.com/1299879/2019/10/23/pacers-assistant-dan-burke-on-the-state-of-the-defense-they-care-about-doing-what-were-asking-them-to-do/
pls
― micah, Wednesday, 23 October 2019 19:50 (four years ago) link
Like most things with the Pacers, there’s a lot of newness and a lot of questions. There’s much that cannot be answered until opening night arrives and beyond, when the coaches have real games to coach and video to learn from.
Of the Pacers’ 17-man roster, which includes two players on two-way deals, more than half the team is new to Indianapolis, new to the Pacers and, most of all, new to each other. Myles Turner is the only returning starter. The talent this bunch has is obvious, but what about the chemistry?
For example, Turner and Domantas Sabonis arrived in town later than the rest after playing in the World Cup in China. Most of the team moved to Indy in early September; they arrived Sept. 25. Training camp opened a couple of days later.
Opening night falls on Wednesday, Oct. 23, the 85th birthday of Pacers owner Herb Simon and less than a month since the Pacers’ frontcourt returned. At least they already know coach Nate McMillan’s offensive and defensive principles.
Wednesday is also is exactly nine months from when Victor Oladipo dropped to the court after rupturing his right quad tendon. He will be on the bench (but unavailable) for the first regular-season game since that night. He also intends to travel with the team to most games.
Longtime assistant coach Dan Burke will be in his usual seat near the front of the bench. He’s served as a Pacers assistant since Larry Bird hired him in 1997, making him the longest-tenured assistant coach with the same team in the NBA.
So it’s no surprise that when the annual survey of NBA GMs came out this week, Burke finished tied in first for best assistant coach in the league, along with Chris Finch (New Orleans) and David Vanterpool (Minnesota).
“I’ve known that for a long time,” McMillan said. “I’m not in front (of him), he’s beside me. DB does a great job. I’ve worked and had some really good assistants in this league, and he has the experience. I don’t even call him DB, I call him coach. I’ve always had that respect for him since joining the Pacers (in 2013) when Frank (Vogel) was in charge and I was an assistant working with him. The guy does his job.
“Since I’ve met him years ago, nothing has changed. He comes in every single day and he motivates you. A guy that works that hard, you can’t come in not prepared.”
One of the Pacers’ offseason priorities was to upgrade the offense. They needed more weapons, more shooters and more scorers. Getting swept in the first round — they averaged 91.8 points per game without Oladipo — drove that point home.
Defensively, though, they lost their free safety in Thad Young (to Chicago) and a solid wing defender in Bojan Bogdanovic (to Utah). Fortunately, at least, they have time to figure it out. Detroit’s Blake Griffin is out for the next several weeks, and the Pacers face the Pistons three times in the first nine games, including on opening night. Their first real test isn’t until Nov. 15 in Houston.
Last season, the Pacers ranked third in defensive rating (106), sixth in field-goal percentage defense (45), fifth in points off turnovers allowed (14.9) and 22nd in defensive rebounding percentage (72.2). McMillan emphasized rebounding and transition defense all camp. And over the next few months, the team must find its identity, learn to communicate effectively and set a rotation.
How might the Pacers do this season defensively? In a recent chat with The Athletic, the Pacers’ defensive coordinator discussed what he saw in camp.
How is the defense taking shape with this new group?
I spent the summer, first off, starting with Domas and Myles. If they are going to start together, play together, how much do we tweak to accommodate that? Do we even talk about a zone? Do we zone up the help side inverted?
The character we have — you see it already — even with the nine new guys. They care. They care about guarding their man. They care about helping their teammate. They care about doing what we’re asking them to do. So we’re going to stay with a lot of what we’ve been doing. Jeremy Lamb is asking questions every day. There’s an eagerness there. T.J. Warren, that last game in India, asked me at halftime, “So what do you typically do here? Allow 25 points a quarter or what?” Of course, I lied and said, “No, man, 20, 22.” And we went out there in that second half and I think in the first 15 possessions we had 13 spots. Now, both teams were stiff and tired as heck, but the eagerness and the building of what we are used to doing here, I think there’s a care there that we can build on and get these guys on board without a lot of changes.
We have more length, so we could maybe talk about switching more. We just never switch because it was easier, we never switch because (they’re) the same size. We want to switch if we have the same talent. I think right now we’re on the same path how we’ve been doing things — with an idea that it might not last. Depends how it goes.
Do you have that elite wing defender to guard players like Giannis or LeBron?
It turned out the other night in India, just happenstance, we kind of subbed without coach really knowing it. At the end of the game, we put Justin Holiday out there, and he went right to Hield. It was at the end of Game 1. I didn’t tell him to go to Buddy Hield. We knew that’s who he was going with. Jeremy was on Buddy Hield, and I was kind of interested in seeing how Jeremy was going to do. And then we had two bigs in and at the last second, instead of asking coach — there wasn’t enough time — I just went “Justin, get in.” I think it was for Domas (Sabonis). And Jeremy saw him coming in and he put him on Buddy, and he went on the ball. And it was a hell of a move. Then at the end of overtime, I saw that and he draped all over him. Maybe he’s that guy.
I don’t know if he’s that guy say six, seven or eight minutes in a game yet or not. But T.J. Warren is eager as hell to be that guy. And, as you’ve guys have been told when you were little, how much defense is desire. We’re going to try to grab onto that desire and see if he can be that guy. Maybe T.J. and Justin are in there together and Justin guards the better guy and T.J. the other guy. … We’re still trying to learn. But I love what I see as far as the determination to execute down on the defensive end.
Is Warren like Bogdanovic in that he’s got a reputation as a poor defender but he hadn’t been asked or made to do it in the past?
I think so. I see it. He’s got great length, and he has pretty good speed. His feet are good. I don’t see any reason. Now I don’t know what his experience was in Phoenix; I haven’t even asked him. I know Dave West grabbed me and said, “Take care of my guy. He hasn’t had structure, DB. He hasn’t had structure.” Does that mean he wasn’t asked to play defense? That stuff I really don’t want to know. I want to judge him with what I see and coach him the way I’m used to coaching guys. Right now, all these guys can be coached, they can be pushed, and anytime you can do that with a group of guys, you have a chance. I think T.J. is going to surprise people on the defensive end. He looks like he has great pride in that. And right now I’ve had to tell him coach is lying about I don’t want to say “Giddy up,” I want to say, “Whoa!” Right now, I don’t have to say “whoa” to T.J. because he’s trying to bust everything up. It’s impressive.
When did you talk to David West about him?
In Vegas. And the night we traded for him on draft night. He texted me right away and said he was going to call me, but we talked in Vegas when T.J. came to meet the team. David loves him, and he came up through his AAU (program). And David isn’t just about basketball. He’s talking to these guys about their studies or life after basketball and to learn a skill. He even wants to teach some of his kids how to weld. You got to learn the trade, yeah. That’s D-West, man.
(Randy Belice / NBAE via Getty Images)You’ve coached some really good defensive teams here. What’s the potential of this one?
Good question. One thing I could start with is I know potential hasn’t won any ballgames. Right now, I’ve seen a lot of good. A lot of good. Whatever our goals are going to be, top five or top ten, I usually don’t look at all those numbers. Coach puts them on the board, but I think we can still be one of those. Again, it will be interesting just what kind of mix we end up with when it really comes nut-cutting time.
Outside of points allowed, what stats are you most interested in?
Right away, to me, it’s defensive field goal percentage. I guess you got to add 3-point field goal percentage. I’m not too hung up on 3-point attempts. I think if we start talking that way, then our defense is going to be spread out. I think the average number of makes last year was 11 3-pointers made per game. That’s 33 points, and teams are averaging 110 (points per game), so where are those other points? So defensive field goal percentage, defensive rebounding percentage (are notable). We got to keep teams off the boards. If there’s two key areas, it’s the defensive rebounding and then transition. We allowed about 12 to 14 points last year in transition. That’s got to come down to 10.
If there was a fourth: free-throw attempts. We don’t want to be fouling just to foul. But then we chart challenges, the percentage of jumpers we are challenging. We chart deflections, and we play with little prizes for charges. Those first four are the key. I don’t want them buried with a bunch of numbers. Our goal is to challenge shots and defensive rebound every possession.
Having Sabonis in there instead of Thad Young makes you a better rebounding team, but not as good in transition defense.
Yeah, they’re going to try run us like crazy. We’ll be passing out track shoes instead of basketball shoes.
With so much talk about playing Turner and Sabonis, what’s the impact defensively?
I don’t know. (Laughs.) I really don’t. I’m watching closely. Right now, we’re asking Domas to do what our four man typically does. The one part that can spoil the soup is opponents like putting their four on Myles and their five on Domas, so now you’re running back cross-matching. We’re going to ask Myles to do the same. I’m watching it closely. Right now, we’re just asking Domas if he’s guarding the shooter to do his best and we’ll cover for you.
I think our offensive rebounding is going to help some of that transition defense. Offensive rebounding in the league has come down because it’s usually 3s and long shots. I think maybe we could make a little hay that way to help the defense. How much switching do you do with Domas and Myles out there? We just play solid like we have. In India, we forced turnovers and I don’t know how we forced turnovers, so we’re not gimmicking the game up, we’re not doing anything to force turnovers as far as switching and denying. But we’ve got active hands, we’re solid in the paint, and we force turnovers. We were up there (in forced turnovers) last year, too. People ask me how. (Laughs.) And we just got good character and great care.
― de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Wednesday, 23 October 2019 19:56 (four years ago) link
thanks
― micah, Wednesday, 23 October 2019 20:19 (four years ago) link
curious plz?https://theathletic.com/1328656/2019/10/28/morey-speaks-about-hoops-rockets-gm-declining-to-talk-china-but-dives-deep-on-the-russell-westbrook-trade/
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 28 October 2019 18:38 (four years ago) link
HOUSTON – If you took a quick peek at Daryl Morey’s Twitter timeline these past few days, you’d never know the Houston Rockets general manager was stuck in the eye of a geopolitical storm just a few weeks ago.
There was a series of three tweets on Thursday promoting the start of this Rockets regular season, followed by more hoops-themed tweets on Friday and even a baseball tweet sent on Sunday.
“(Houston Astros pitcher Gerrit) Cole is going to channel this guy tonight,” he wrote just hours before the Astros’ Game 5 victory in the World Series, and above a picture of famed rapper M.C. Hammer performing his 80s hit, Can’t Touch This.
All in all, it’s pretty light social media fare. It doesn’t take a Rockets scientist to figure out this is all by design.
Morey is getting back to the basketball again, weeks after his “Fight for Freedom, Stand with Hong Kong” tweet on Oct. 4 sparked a wave of backlash from the Chinese government and forced the NBA to face uncomfortable questions about its own values and how they reconcile (or perhaps don’t) with the endless pursuit of the almighty dollar. His Rockets are in the early stages of learning how to make the most of Russell Westbrook, the former Oklahoma City Thunder star who Morey landed via trade back in July and who will face his old team for the first time on Monday night at the Toyota Center.
There are plenty of rival executives and owners around the NBA who would like to hear from Morey on the China-Hong Kong front, but he clearly has no plans to address it beyond the two tweets he sent explaining his side back on Oct. 6. Rockets officials have made it clear that Morey is free to speak on the matter if he so pleases, but he will instead move on.
Which brings us to this interview.
Three months before his retweet heard ’round the world, Morey pulled off one of the summer’s many stunners by landing the former MVP in Westbrook, who has four seasons and $171.1 million combined left on his deal (with a player option for 2022-23). The cost was substantial: Chris Paul (three seasons, $124 million combined left with a player option for 2021-22), two protected first-round picks (2024 and 2026, both protected 1-4), and picks swaps in 2021 (protected 1-4 and, per The Athletic’s Shams Charania, OKC can swap with the Clippers pick or the Miami pick) and 2025 (protected 1-20).
The end result, as he discussed with The Athletic after declining to address the NBA’s China controversy, came after a five-day stretch of negotiating while at summer league in Las Vegas that Morey describes as the “most intense” of any deal he has ever done. Considering the reputation he has earned in these past 12 years, that’s no small statement.
Morey, who began heading the Rockets front office in 2007, is widely known as one of the most aggressive executives in the league. Yet after two banner seasons with Paul, in which they came so close to getting past the then-mighty Golden State Warriors, this was the kind of franchise-altering trade that had to be studied from every angle before the final call was made.
With Paul returning to town Monday and Westbrook wearing Rockets red now after spending his first 11 seasons in Thunder blue and orange, and reuniting with his old Thunder buddy in James Harden, Morey agreed to discuss the deal that will have everything to do with the league’s power structure for these next few seasons. The sides verbally agreed while Morey was taking an Uber to UNLV to watch a Rockets’ summer league game, and so it was that he turned around and headed back to the hotel with his staff to handle all the paperwork.
How close was it to not getting done? That same day, Morey had called Harden to tell him the deal was off. And then it was on again.
Morey and I spoke twice about the deal in recent days, with the first time coming on Friday and the second on Sunday.
Friday, one day after the Rockets fell 117-111 to Milwaukee at home
So on the decision to bring Russ to town, I wondered specifically about the style clash (between Paul and Westbrook) and how that came into account. For the last several years, you have this formulaic approach where you drill down on taking threes or being at the rim. But with Russ, the nature of his game is more helter-skelter, faster paced; he’s going to live in the midrange a little bit. How did you process all of that as you broke this deal down and how does it change who you guys are on that end?
Yeah, we thought – and you mentioned it a little bit – we thought we needed to add someone who might have an extra gear. While we were a very good team – and I’ve actually been asked, ‘Is this the best Rockets team?’ and I think we have a chance at that, but I do have to point to our team a few years ago, which won more games than very few teams in history at 65 (regular season wins), so we’ve got a ways to prove that we’re as good as that team that came very close. But with Russell here, I think we have a shot to be the best Rockets team since I’ve been here, and maybe since the championship teams (in 1994 and 1995), but we’ve got a long ways to go to show that.
Step One would have been to beat a very likely Finals team in Milwaukee in Game One, so that was frustrating. But in terms of Russell, he’s got an extra gear for key moments. I think we saw that in the fourth quarter last night, where he had some plays that very few people in NBA history can make in terms of putting pressure on the D’ and disrupting on the other end as well.
You know, early in the season, you’re almost looking for trends more than just one game results – like, ‘What’s to come?’ and what things we need to watch. And we’ve had some real downer Game Ones in the past, where you feel like you’re putting your fingers in the dyke and trying to shore up issues. I saw a lot of things to build on more than things that we needed to shore up (in Game One).
What about the personal dynamics here? Today was the first time I got eyes on him in this environment. I even told him how strange he looked in red. It’s still kind of surreal that he’s playing for your team. But I also have some comical memories about coming to town in the (2016-17) season when he won MVP, and you and (former Rockets executive/current Minnesota GM) Gersonn (Rosas) giving me a hard time because of who I voted for that year (Westbrook)…
Morey, who made it clear at the time that he thought Harden should have won the award and that the widespread focus on Westbrook averaging a triple-double represented flawed logic, laughs…
I would still give you a hard time on that. For me, James has been the MVP for multiple years now. I don’t mind James losing the MVP, but I don’t like him losing it to, you know, simple labels (laughs again), which I felt like happened that year. It was never anything against the player. It was really more like – maybe not you personally – but the way many (voters) justified their pick that year I thought was a departure from how it had been selected in the past. It really had more to do with how people were viewing it than the player, so…
Which I get. But now that he’s on your squad, I’m curious about the relationship aspect with the two of you guys. Do you feel like you’ve gotten to know him in these past few months? What has he been like within your culture?
Yeah, he’s been refreshing. He’s been like a lot of players, where you hear stories and narratives and obviously he’s in the past maybe had some contentious relationships with media and things like that. So you never know what to think, but he’s been a dream. I think there is still a legitimate question to figure out: Does chemistry come from winning, or does chemistry drive winning? I still think that’s a reasonable question (as was widely reported last summer, the Rockets tension had been on the rise before the deal). And as usual, the people on the extremes are probably wrong. The answer is probably in the middle. But if chemistry drives winning, then we’re in very good shape this year. We’ve got a vibe going, and obviously it’ll be tough with losses like (the season opener against the Bucks) and for sure going forward we’re going to have some losses – two in row, and hopefully not three in a row – but in terms of chemistry and that, we’ve got a really good thing going right now.
You chewed on this deal a lot, all through summer league. I remember being in Vegas and noticing the vibe had changed with your Rockets group, and (Athletic beat writer) Kelly (Iko) mentioned that to me at the time when he saw the group acting a certain way.
(Laughs) You were picking up hope, or whatever?
Exactly. But here’s the question: When it comes to big-time trades, (Lakers GM) Rob Pelinka was quoted recently about the (Anthony Davis trade with New Orleans in June), and he talked about how a lot of times deals live on the edge. And I wondered about this one, if it had that element to it.
Yeah, it did. It did. Mostly in the back and forth with Oklahoma City, and they did a really good job. It’s never easy to get a deal done. The difference between almost done and done feels like more than the distance between anything else – like, it’s more than half, for sure. But once we knew that the opportunity was there, there was a lot of – obviously – discussion, debates, analysis, back and forth with OKC. So there was a lot – a lot going on. It was a very intense period.
Actually, when people tell me now that it was only five days from when we knew there was a chance to when it happened, it felt like two months honestly. Like, it was a really, really intense period. I’ve talked about it being the biggest risk…but people, I think, misinterpreted that I meant Russell (was the risk). But I meant more like – whenever you give up a significant chunk of your future, it’s (a risk). If I have any job – and sometimes I’m the only one worried about it – it’s how do I properly balance the present and the future. When you’re giving up future (assets), I need to be really careful that I’m making sure the franchise is protected for (owner) Tilman (Fertitta) and things like that.
When you call it intense, where does it fall in context for you in terms of intense transactions you’ve done?
Well, prior to the deal happening, it was by far the most. I’d say the Chris Paul deal that got canceled (by the NBA)was the most intense after (the deal), but prior to a deal, yeah. I don’t think anything was close, actually.
What were the main moving parts that might have pushed this thing one way or the other. I’ve heard you guys had to look hard at Russ’ health history, and all the procedures that he’s had and chew on the question of how that projects going forward. You have to look at Chris’ age and where he’s going. There are so many layers to this, what was the short list for you?
Well yeah, you named a few, so for sure those. The quality of the drafts you’re giving up, the swaps and what value to place on those, what years for the picks, because there was a lot of back and forth on that. How many picks? Other elements, other players maybe. It’s honestly – you could analyze it forever, and we came damn close, it felt like.
Whenever you’re making a big investment – we obviously made a big investment in Chris (by giving him a four-year, $160 million deal in the summer of 2018), and we don’t do those without everyone being comfortable and feeling like it’s the right move. And then obviously, this is a big investment in Russell. Again, any time there’s a big investment, if I have any job it’s to make sure that those investments are quality investments and increase our championship odds. That’s really the job, more than anything else. Really, nothing else was worked on for multiple days by, you know – all hands on deck.
Sunday, one day after the Rockets downed New Orleans 126-123 at home
What can you share, if anything, about the part James played and how that unfolded? How much teamwork was there between the two of you here?
Yeah, a lot of teamwork. I mean, with James at a high (communication) level, and obviously he felt like (Westbrook) could be a good fit here. He was curious if there was a way to do it where we could keep everyone and not have to give up anything (laughs). Unfortunately the math of the deal required Chris going out, unfortunately.
Just to make sure I’m hearing you there, James wanted to know if there was a way of doing it without losing Chris?
Yeah, because I mean his mind is always (going) first to ‘How (can we be) completely stacked?’ So I had to sort of explain. He gets it roughly, but obviously he leaves the details to us. Besides the high level (talks) where he thought that Russ would be a great fit here, there’s not a ton of interaction after that point. He knows there’s a back and forth, just like we respect what he does I think he respects what we do and he sort of leaves the execution to us.
I kept him appraised, because it felt like it was going to fall apart and back together a few times there. When I let him know it probably wasn’t going to happen, he was good. He understood. He said, ‘Hey, if there’s a way to make it happen, let’s do it,’ but he understands that you can’t just snap your fingers and make things happen in the NBA. No one is out there trying to help us. It’s always a dynamic when you’re trying to get the deal done. The good thing is we have a long relationship with him. And seven years in, he gets how it works and leaves it mostly to us to do our jobs once he gives the high level (feedback of) ‘Hey, I played with this guy. He’d be a good fit.
What was the timestamp on when you told him it wasn’t going to happen?
I mean the day it happened, I thought it wasn’t going to happen. I talked to James that day, and he obviously was disappointed but was understanding.
So I’ve assumed that this all began with James and Russ connecting, first and foremost. And the word has to get relayed to you that Russ wants to come. In what form did that cross your desk?
Yeah, I mean I try not to get into that because I have to be careful that we’re never getting involved with other team’s players. So whenever I talk to him, I keep it a high level (by asking) ‘Do you think he’d be a good fit here?’
So last one for you, here. I wanted to get your read on the interview Tilman did with (Fox Sports’ Colin Cowherd) recently, and the inference he made that near the finish line of the deal – and this was his wording – the front office got “maybe a little weak at the end.” The way he framed it, I thought it was fair to see how that hit you.
Yeah, no I think all of that comes down similar to what I answered before, which is that the thing that was difficult in this trade isn’t getting Russell Westbrook, obviously. You’ve already seen how great of a fit he is. It’s really what you have to give up. You only have so many resources that you can use to improve the team, continue to improve the team and also protect the franchise if, in the future, things aren’t going as well, and you have draft picks to rebuild and things like that. So yeah, at various points of the deal we thought that what we were giving up was very challenging to agree to. My sense is that’s what Tilman was referring to is the price in draft picks, primarily, and maybe other things – other sort of medium level things that we had to work through.
Where were you when the deal got done?
I was in an Uber on the way to our game at summer league. …I turned around when we got to Thomas & Mack, and then turned around and went right back to the hotel to finalize all the details.
― de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Monday, 28 October 2019 18:41 (four years ago) link
Thx! Interesting that Harden was making an effort (or at least Morley says he was) to figure out how to keep cp3. Having watched both nu-rockets games so far, they look like a much more interesting team to me. am appreciating the refs appearing to not let harden dictate each and every foul so far this season.
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 28 October 2019 18:55 (four years ago) link
Scott Brooks is building an offense from scratch … for the first time
By Fred Katz Oct 21, 2019 11 WASHINGTON — Scott Brooks is familiar with his critics, and he knows when they’re playing the hits.
He rolls the ball out for his point guards and waits for them to handle the complicated stuff. Or maybe his offenses are unimaginative. Or his attacks are prone to one-on-one play and top heaviness.
Then again, so has been his personnel.
Brooks is entering his 10th full season as an NBA head coach and yet, never before this year has he gone into training camp with a roster like the one he has now. For the first time, he won’t be building a scheme around a superhumanly athletic, ball-dominant, pick-and-roll reliant point guard. Every other autumn, Russell Westbrook in OKC or John Wall in D.C. — arguably the NBA’s two most physically imposing floor generals throughout Brooks’ career — have dictated at least some of the team’s style for their coach.
But oh, how things have changed today.
“You play to the talent that you have,” Brooks said. “And I had incredible point guards who are dynamic.”
“Had” is the operative word here. Westbrook is a character from Brooks’ past and Wall will miss potentially all of this season with an Achilles rupture.
Sure, Bradley Beal, now Washington’s best player, is a deserving All-Star, but he operates more off the ball than Wall. And when he has it, he doesn’t handle for quite as long. The newly signed Ish Smith, who will start at point guard, doesn’t require a particular kind of system.
Brooks has coached so long that he began his career when George W. Bush was still president. LeBron James was in Cleveland … the first time. The basketball community has a decade’s worth of data on him — and finally, because the veteran coach is missing a commanding presence to corner him into a style, it is about to find out how a baked-from-scratch Brooks system truly runs. With all five preseason games done, he’s configured an offense that (if it goes as planned) is one his critics might actually enjoy.
No rolling the ball out for his point guard. Less isolation. Less of the one-man-creates-all mentality that’s consumed Brooks’ offenses for as long as we can all remember. It might look good. It might not. But at last, the NBA world will get to see what a raw Brooks offense, one that isn’t necessarily influenced for him, will look like.
“It’s great, because we have a group that wants to hoop. It’s plain and simple,” Beal said. “We don’t make it more complicated than it needs to be. Everybody knows their role. Everybody is a capable shooter in here, too. So the way our offense is ran, everybody will have ample opportunities to get shots and get the ball.”
It’s not like Brooks has had Wall by his side in recent years. The point guard missed half of the 2017-18 season and the final 50 games of last year. But the Wizards didn’t know those injuries were coming. They went into training camp during each of those seasons thinking Wall was good to go. And there’s something to be said for that.
A coach can change some plays midseason or reconfigure roles if unexpected performance forces his hand, but any NBA coach will tell you: No one can implement a completely new system midway through the year. It’s why coaches need training camp.
“It’s no fun having John out the last two now going on three years, missing 40 (games) and 50 and then potentially a lot of the season now. That’s no fun. I’d rather have him,” Brooks said. “The last two years, I didn’t go in, like ‘OK, we’re gonna design something with John not here. Be ready, guys. This game is when he’s going to get hurt.’ So, we had to adjust on the fly. And it’s hard, especially when you have a John type of point guard, who’s so great at what he does.”
And so, here’s Brooks using training camp and five preseason games to show off a more obvious ‘systemy’ system than he ever has.
So far — and yes, “so far” means during the preseason, a time when any and all prognostications and profundities should stay locked up — the offense has changed quite a bit.
The Wizards aren’t running as much pick-and-roll unless it’s with Beal and Thomas Bryant. How could they? They’re missing Wall, one of the few non-3-point dependent point guards still reliant on a big man coming to screen for him up top as his remaining three teammates spread to the arc. Westbrook remains another.
They include far more dribble hand-offs, especially with Bryant, who’s become a featured part of the offense. There’s more weak-side cutting, which is easier to implement when scoring isn’t as reliant on one guy. Passes to passers are more common. Big men are stretching to the 3-point line constantly. Brooks wants guys heaving up triples at all costs. The Wizards shot the second-most 3s per game during the preseason.
“(We) actually (did) better than I thought we would do with all the new guys and all the players that don’t have a lot of NBA experience,” Brooks said. “I thought it was gonna be more spells of not being able to generate enough scores, but we’ve had a lot of good moments.”
Let’s be clear about this: The Wizards are not better without the healthy version of Wall. They’re playing this way because they have no other choice. Brooks spent 10 years putting the ball in the hands of Westbrook and Wall because he felt that was the best way to use them. At a basic level, it was.
At an even more basic one, once he gets past the sympathy he has for Wall dealing with such a serious injury and the low spirits he has for himself and the organization going through most or all of the year without a five-time All-Star, there has to be something fun about outlining new schemes with a new roster.
This isn’t to say Brooks is on the verge of spinning an offense reminiscent of the 2014 Spurs. It’s merely to point out that we have 10 years of evidence showing how Brooks handles a specific kind of situation. And now, he’s in a new one.
At the core of every NBA coach is a basketball nerd. If, after all this, the Wizards still spend a season looking stagnant, then those classic Brooks criticisms will come roaring back. But if this works better than expected, Brooks’ nerdy side will force a question that should be asked about pretty much any coach: How much of what we think of him is because of his coaching, and how much of what we think is because of his situation?
“We’re gonna have to play scrappy,” Brooks said. “Our identity has to be ball moving and everybody has to touch it. We all know Brad is gonna be critical to that success. He’s gonna touch it enough. But we gotta get everybody else involved, as well.”
― de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Thursday, 21 November 2019 21:09 (four years ago) link
https://www.realmenrealstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/eyeglasses.jpg
― Clay, Thursday, 21 November 2019 23:48 (four years ago) link
thought this was really interesting and convincinghttps://theathletic.com/1360529/2019/11/20/hollinger-the-three-shot-foul-is-a-bad-rule-badly-enforced-with-bad-side-effects-it-needs-to-go/
― k3vin k., Friday, 22 November 2019 03:08 (four years ago) link
When can we say an NBA rule change failed?
I can think of four potential reasons: When the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, when the officials have difficulty calling it correctly, when it encourages behavior it was originally designed to discourage, or when it takes the game in a worse direction.
In the case of the three-shot foul, we’re a perfect 4-for-4. It’s a bad rule, badly enforced, that encourages bad behavior and stylistic monotony.
The three-shot foul has been around almost as long as the 3-pointer itself. At first, it wasn’t a big deal – three-shot fouls were extremely rare. Two things changed that. First, players slowly realized that the three-shot penalty was a completely outsized response to a minor crime and modified their behavior accordingly – beginning with the exaggerated side leg kicks of Reggie Miller. This move, theoretically outlawed in 2012, remains a popular way of duping refs into a three-shot foul.
Worsening matters, recent points of emphasis from the league have made it illegal to breathe on shooters increased protection for shooters, essentially guaranteeing the shooter no contact from takeoff to landing, no matter how bizarre a path he took en route. That change, in particular, has brought on a barrage of three-shot fouls from shooters jumping forward and adjusting their landing point to collide into a closing defender, or dangling legs at the last minute, hoping to catch a body.
It’s not just James Harden either. Here’s Bryn Forbes, for instance, coming to a nice controlled stop in transition and then suddenly vaulting forward on his shot and jackknifing his legs so they can catch Kevin Huerter.
If you want more examples, believe me, I have them.
My modest proposal is that the league goes back to a two-shot foul penalty for the first 46 minutes of the game. In the last two minutes, when several other minor rules also change, it can keep the three-shot foul to prevent egregious intentional fouling by teams with three-point leads.
Why would this improve the game? Let’s go through the weaknesses, one by one.
Penalty doesn’t fit the crimeThis is by far my biggest gripe, and it’s a crucial component to understanding every other reason the three-shot foul is awful. I don’t think a lot of people fully understand how absurdly rich the 3-shot reward is for a common shooting foul.
Pardon me while I take you through some my math. It won’t be terrible, I promise.
First things first — 3-pointers barely produce any more points than 2-pointers, on average. The league hits 35.2 percent of its 3s and 52.0 percent of its 2s last season, meaning both shots produced nearly identical expected returns – 1.04 points for 2s, 1.06 points for 3s.
From that perspective, giving an additional shot for a shooting foul on a 3-pointer compared to a 2-pointer makes no sense — the shooter wasn’t likely to score more points on the initial shot.
But the return on a shooting foul for these types is now radically different. Using league averages, the expected return on a 3-shot foul is 2.33 points – three times the league average free throw rate (76.6 percent), plus a small dollop for the possibility of an offensive board on a missed third shot. (Only about 11 percent of missed free throws are rebounded by the offense, and only 23.9 percent of them are missed in the first place. Ballpark the average ROI on an offensive board is 1.2 points, leading to whopping 0.03 point increase. In reality, teams try much harder on the offensive glass when awful foul shooters are at the line, but we’ll ignore that for the sake of methodological clarity here).
That contrasts with 1.56 points on a two-shot foul.
In reality, the ROI on a 3-shot foul is even better because of who draws those fouls. News flash: Andre Drummond and Dwight Howard aren’t getting fouled shooting 3s. Only threatening 3-point shooters draw these whistles, and most of them are very good free-throw shooters too. Additionally, second and third free throws convert at a slightly better than than the first one. As ESPN’s Kevin Pelton recently reported, players league-wide shot 87.1 percent on the third shot of a three-shot foul last season, compared to just 80 percent on the first attempt.
As a result, the expected ROI on 3-shot fouls isn’t 2.33 points, it’s actually more like 2.56 … a full point higher than the two-shot foul.
In fact, check this out: That return on a three-shot foul is so excessive that, on average, committing one is about as bad as committing a flagrant! The second shot on a flagrant can’t be rebounded, so the two shots on average are worth 1.53 points for the offense. The team then inbounds on a dead ball, which is the lowest efficiency initial condition for offense – yielding 1.07 points per possession last season, according to our Seth Partnow. That brings our total for the trip to 2.60 points.
So a three-shot foul hands the offense 2.56 points on average … and a flagrant gives it 2.60. It’s basically the same. Yikes.
To see how extreme a penalty it is, however, you need to understand not just the absolute value, but also the marginal value. A typical possession was worth 1.10 points in 2018-19 (I will use last year’s numbers for this exercise given the early stage of the season). As noted above, the average two-point shot was worth 1.04 (the league shot 52.0 percent on 2s), and an average 3-point shot was worth 1.06 (the league shot 35.3 percent on 3s). Offensive boards added an additional 0.13 points to the expectation on 2s and 0.18 on 3s. So that’s a marginal value of 0.07 points for a 2 (1.04+0.13-1.10), and 0.14 points for a 3 (1.06 + 0.18 – 1.10).
But a three-shot foul? Not only does it more than double the value of a possession, from 1.10 points to 2.56 points, but also its marginal value of 1.56 points dwarfs that of common fouls. Let’s see here how a 3-shot foul changes things:
Marginal value of shot types, 2018-19Three-shot foul 1.56Two-shot foul 0.46Average three-point attempt 0.14Average two-point attempt 0.07A two-shot foul produces a 0.39-point marginal return relative to just letting the guy shoot. That’s a fair penalty. The return on a three-shot foul, however, is 1.42 — nearly FOUR TIMES as much.
Again, the outsized penalty is a huge reason for this rule’s awfulness, because it influences all kinds of other behavior. A lot of it is subtle — for instance, here’s Damian Lillard with an attempt he would never consider if it weren’t for the fact that he might get three shots. Certainly he’s not trying to make a 3-point shot here.
This happens a lot, actually. A huge chunk of three-shot fouls are the result of players playing against the rules rather than the opponent — either guards like Lillard leaning into an ugly heave after turning the corner on a screen, or catch-and-shoot specialists kicking a leg out to reach out and tag a defender. Maybe he doesn’t get the call every time, but it’s the outsized return that makes the attempt worth the investment.
And here’s the beautiful basketball that same play yields when it doesn’t work:
It even impacts areas you wouldn’t consider — such as the coach’s challenge. From an ROI basis, far and away the best use of it is to challenge a leg-kick three-shot foul and turn 2.56 points into an offensive foul — to the point that coaches should probably save their challenge for three quarters in case one of these comes up.
More contact, not lessBecause of the outsized return on 3-shot fouls, and that players KNOW about the outsize return, they’ve modified their behavior accordingly. Rather than avoid collisions when they rise up for a jumper, smart players seek it out. As a result, a mission designed to protect shooters and reduce contact (and hopefully injuries) has had the unintended consequence of increasing it. Several players — not even elite ones — have quickly adopted the habit of kicking their non-shooting leg out and forward in hopes of attracting a three-shot foul, creating conditions for ankle sprains rather than removing them. It’s exactly what the league was originally trying to prevent.
It’s remarkable to see how much players’ behavior changes on 3-point jump shots versus two-point jump shots. The clip above with Forbes is a great example, but it’s not hard to find others. In fact, it’s not hard to find them with Bryn Forbes (or any other volume 3-point shooter, for that matter) … and you can actually see it the most in clips where players aren’t fouled. Here is Forbes searching out contact with his right leg, hoping he can tag Terrence Ferguson and create a 3-shot collision.
For a more egregious example, here is T.J. Warren’s submission into the pantheon, just praying he can get a piece of Cedi Osman with his right leg:
Now that you’ve seen it NOT work, here’s what it looks like when it does. Kelly Oubre was awarded three shots for this bit of ridiculousness:
More subtly, here’s Kemba Walker rising up with his left leg well behind him and behind the 3-point line. George Hill’s feet never totally cross the 3-point line, yet somehow “foul” Kemba’s left leg by being in position to receive Kemba’s love tap. For a right-handed shooter, this is, um, not natural:
For a more common example, it’s possible James Harden would have been fouled on this play by Dillon Brooks anyway, but he sticks out his left leg to make sure of it.
OK, fine, let’s talk about HardenIn particular, his left leg. Here’s another one. In real time it looks like Jimmy Butler annihilated him. Zapruder it and you see Harden rise up for a normal shot before he sees Butler and plays tag with his left leg.
And again, more blatantly, here he gets the Nets’ Taurean Prince with a piece of extended-leg absurdity only highlighted by Brooklyn’s monochrome court palette.
Finally, let’s give credit where it’s due. Shout out to Tyler Ford, who nabbed Harden here on his leg kick. Not all heroes wear capes. I don’t think it’s an accident that he made the call from behind the play and a bit away from it — the ref on the sideline is actually too close to see both the hands and feet of the shooter. More on that in a minute.
The Refs can’t call it correctlyAnother unintended consequence of the three-shot foul is that it highlights how awful the officials are at calling it. It’s not their fault — it has to do with their position on the court and the impossibility of what’s asked of them.
We’re giving a huge reward on a play where a significant portion of the calls are just flat-out wrong.
You think I’m just going to pull more Harden clips? Think again. Here’s our very first three-shot foul of the season, an egregious leg kick by New Orleans’ Kenrich Williams that should have been an offensive foul (if not a flagrant); the dude basically tripped Pascal Siakam in midair.
Sideways leg kicks by shooters are very difficult for officials to see due to the geography of the court. We don’t want officials standing in the middle of it, for good reason. But most 3-point attempts either come from the corner, or from the top of the key — the two places an official standing at the coach’s box is mostly like to be looking from a straight-on vantage point. That gives them little to no depth perception to see if a leg is kicked sideways or straight out, making them suckers for preying shooters. We can’t always see it from the camera angle, either.
Props to Eric Dalen, who missed the Williams call above but nails Forbes with the left leg maneuver on a very difficult to see call here:
The other issue that comes up is that sometimes the officials are too close, particular on wing 3-point attempts. They can’t possibly be looking at both hands and feet when the players are right on top of them, so they have to guess. Here’s a clip where Tom Washington ends up with both the shooter and defender right in his lap and essentially has to blindly extrapolate whether the shooter’s leg got clipped. Combined with Harden’s left-leg voodoo, you can guess the result.
Before we finish, I should point out something else — I’m only pointing out one kind of error in these clips. Officials also struggle to correctly identify three-shot fouls for some of the same reasons I’ve listed above, something the Rockets outlined last spring before the Golden State series in their Magna Gripe-a missive to the league office. Again, these are huge calls (or misses) because the penalty is so severe.
Is this the game you want?Hey, all you midrange jumper fans — now is your chance to chime in. All we’ve done with the three-shot foul is further incentivize every single team to tilt even more toward the same monolithic outcome of spreading the floor and shooting a ton of catch-and-shoot 3s.
With defenses disincentivized from challenging the shot, and the occasional super bonus of a 3-shot foul juicing expected returns from the strategy, teams would be crazy NOT to go in that direction. Anybody who wants to see some stylistic distinctions left in this league should at least be thinking about how to favor the 3-point shot a bit less. Changing the three-shot foul is one obvious, lightly intrusive means.
So, summing it all up: The three-shot foul creates a massively disproportionate penalty to the crime committed, on a play type that officials have difficulty calling correctly. It also likely creates more contact and injury potential rather than reducing it, and incentivizes both boorish behavior and stylistic monotony that make the game less entertaining. The league can go back to three shots in the final two minutes to eliminate intentional fouling incentives late in games; we already have several other rules that change in the last two minutes.
But for the first 46 minutes, it’s clearly a bad rule. And if you still don’t think so, let me leave you with this magical piece of basketball from Trae Young as my parting gift:
Simply changing it to a two-short foul would eliminate a lot of the worst incentives and cheap foul-hunting, while also introducing a more fair penalty for a shot that isn’t any more valuable than 2-pointer at the time of release.
The three-shot foul stinks. It’s time for it to go.
yup. open and shut case imo.
― call all destroyer, Friday, 22 November 2019 03:19 (four years ago) link
I’m convinced
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 22 November 2019 03:48 (four years ago) link
yeah i've always been in favor of doing that
― ciderpress, Friday, 22 November 2019 04:21 (four years ago) link
anybody on this?https://bballwriters.com/opinion/where-we-hit-and-missed-on-nba-season-predictions-so-far/
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 11 December 2019 19:35 (four years ago) link
anyone got a truehoop subscription?https://www.truehoop.com/p/what-is-spooking-lonzo-ball
― de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Friday, 13 December 2019 21:18 (four years ago) link
dam lot of subscription basketball sites out there now
― lag∞n, Saturday, 14 December 2019 04:38 (four years ago) link
lag∞n.nba imo
― mookieproof, Saturday, 14 December 2019 04:48 (four years ago) link
feel the love
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 14 December 2019 04:50 (four years ago) link
NBA draft international scouting notebook: Lottery picks, more intel
Deni Avdija is a top-10 prospect in ESPN's 2020 NBA draft rankings. Jim Dedmon/USA TODAY Sports4:44 AM MTJonathan GivonyESPNFacebookTwitterFacebook MessengerPinterestEmailprintWhat's the latest on the top international prospects in the 2020 NBA draft class?
ESPN draft analyst Jonathan Givony recently spent 10 days in Europe evaluating many of the most intriguing players teams are scouting for this season, as well as some notable young prospects for future drafts.
Here are the highlights of what he learned on his 14-game, nine-country trip across the Atlantic Ocean, including intel on projected lottery picks Deni Avdija and Killian Hayes, potential sleepers and more of the draft's risers and fallers abroad.
SpainThe prestigious L'Hospitalet tournament in Barcelona brought together eight junior teams featuring several prospects for the 2021 and 2022 drafts in a one-day, six-game stop.
The NBA Global Academy team went 5-0 with the deepest, most talented roster in the tournament. We've been following the NBA academy venture closely the past three years, and it's impressive to see how quickly it has been able to recruit and develop talent. Several players put themselves on the draft radar for scouts.
NBA mock draft: What would the likely lottery teams do at No. 1?
NBA draft rankings: The top 100 prospects for 2020Tournament MVP Josh Giddey, a 6-foot-8 guard who operated as the academy's playmaker while often guarding 4s in small-ball lineups, showed his versatility with an impressive line of 19 points, 14 rebounds and 8 assists per 40 minutes. Without great length, size or explosiveness, Giddey relies on feel, creativity and swagger to separate himself. You'll often see him throw an outlet pass the length of the floor with his off-hand off a live dribble and then make an impeccable read operating out of pick-and roll. His lack of traditional athleticism, streaky jumper, upright defensive stance and at-times inability to beat longer players off the dribble mean he'll likely have to win scouts over with productivity at higher levels. But he's improving rapidly, even if it might take him a few years to maximize his draft stock.
A smooth, 6-foot-5 off-guard with a strong frame, good athleticism and versatility, Mojave King proved to be the tournament's best perimeter shooter, knocking down 14 of his 29 3-point attempts in just more than 100 minutes of action. King historically has been happy to defer to others, but his ability to score in the open floor, hit clean jumpers, get teammates involved and make the right play is interesting, considering his youth and physical tools. The next step in his development will be for him to play with more aggressiveness on both ends of the floor and become a more dynamic ball handler.
Other notable players: Canadian wing Olivier-Maxence Prosper, Danish wing Gustav Knudsen, Serbian wings Nikola Radovanovic, Stefan Todorovic and Luka Tarlac, Uruguayan guard Agustin Ubal, Dutch wing Yannick Kraag, Senegalese wing Pape Sow and Spanish wing Miguel Allen Montesdeoca
ItalyNext, I caught 19-year old Cameroonian power forward Paul Eboua, who recently moved into the starting lineup in Italy's first division with some productive games. He has improved significantly after looking lost in the lowly second division last season, putting up maybe the best game of his career with a 20-point, 9-rebound, 3-steal outing in 36 minutes this month.
At 6-foot-8 with a chiseled frame, 7-foot-3 wingspan and explosive athleticism, Eboua has always had phenomenal physical tools. But now he's knocking down 3-pointers, attacking closeouts, operating as a lob threat and making basic passes. The game still moves too quickly for him at times on both ends, his hands aren't reliable enough, and he isn't always able to take advantage of his athleticism. Still, he didn't play basketball until age 14, and he has made impressive strides over the past year, despite not being in an ideal development situation.
Eboua is a legitimate second-round prospect who might be a good fit for a G League affiliate or stash in Europe for another year or two.
IsraelSeveral scouts were in attendance to watch 19-year-old Yam Madar and Hapoel Tel Aviv face Maccabi Ashdod. Madar is having an excellent season in the first division, and he put up an efficient 9 points, 4 assists, 2 steals and 2 rebounds in 19 minutes with defensive energy in a victory.
A late-bloomer physically, Madar has good size, length and athleticism for a PG, but it will likely take several years for his frail frame to fill out before he's ready for the NBA. Nonetheless, he left a strong impression with his feel for the game, competitiveness, budding shooting ability and intangibles. Several executives said they hope he gets an invite to the Nike Hoop Summit in April.
Madar's quick feet and hands made it difficult for the opposing team to get into its sets, and he was subbed into the game late to get defensive stops. He has work to do tightening his ball-handling skills and gaining consistency on offense in the half court, but he is an excellent development situation. He looks like a safe bet to reach his full potential.
BelgiumDespite being only 18 in his first season at the professional level with Oostende, Amar Sylla is playing a significant role in both the first division and the FIBA Champions League, starting every game at power forward and seeing 23 MPG. Those outsized demands seem to be taking a toll on the thin and inexperienced Senegalese big man, as he has hit a bit of a wall after several impressive showings in November and December. He fouled out in just 10 minutes in the game I watched, marking the first time he had done so this season.
Get the best of ESPN sent to your inboxThe ESPN Daily delivers the biggest sports news and moments every weekday.Email AddressSign me up!Privacy PolicyRead the LatestSylla still managed to show what makes him an intriguing long-term prospect. He's arguably the most athletic big man in the 2020 draft class, blessed with incredible quickness and explosiveness. He has a chance to be a total game-changer on the defensive end, with his deep stance and ability to cover ground seamlessly while making plays above the rim. Offense can be an adventure for him, though, as his skill-level needs considerable work. His feel for the game is not particularly high, and he doesn't always play to his strengths. His 3-point shot has fallen in some games in which he has also been able to offer a presence as a rim-runner and offensive rebounder, but he has also had plenty of ugly performances. The coaching staff in Oostende is working to get Sylla to sprint the floor every time down the court, with mixed results.
Scouts didn't sound particularly discouraged, given that they have long viewed Sylla as a long-term project. He's the second-youngest prospect in ESPN's top 100 draft rankings. A patient team with a strong development infrastructure might be happy to let him develop in the G League until he's ready to contribute in the NBA. He's also being mentioned as a potential candidate for April's Nike Hoop Summit.
HungaryNext up: Carlos Alocen playing in a Champions League game against Falco. Alocen and his team, Zaragoza, are having a dream season in the Spanish ACB, currently in third place in arguably the strongest league in Europe. Alocen had a quiet game by his standards, but he played an important role late in his team's road win in a hostile environment.
At 6-foot-5, the 19-year-old brings excellent height for a point guard, even if he has a narrow frame, short wingspan and average athleticism. His strengths include tremendous basketball IQ, confidence and swagger. He passes with both hands, has tremendous vision in pick-and-rolls and shows terrific creativity with bounce passes. Scouts will want to see him improve his perimeter shot and overall half-court scoring, as he's shooting 28% from beyond the arc and 63% from the foul line. There's technically nothing wrong with his stroke, which instills some confidence that he'll figure out this part of his game in time. That's imperative for his NBA chances, as he struggles at times to finish in the paint and doesn't project as a plus defender.
Alocen isn't oozing with upside, but the fact that he's having such a productive season at his age on a winning team gives him a high floor and a solid chance to be selected (if he stays in the draft).
GermanyDeni Avdija played only 12 minutes against Alba Berlin in a Euroleague game for Maccabi Tel Aviv, but he showed all of his talent and then some, throwing in a pair of 3-pointers, leaking out for a transition finish, blocking two shots emphatically, making the extra pass in the half-court and displaying his defensive versatility. Early foul trouble and a bloody nose cut his night short, but it's easy to see that Avdija is hitting his stride and on an upward trajectory, something he backed up in his next game with a career high 22 points, 5 rebounds and 5 assists in the Israeli league.
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Avdija has made real strides from a physical standpoint. He improved his body and athleticism so that he isn't overmatched at the highest levels of competition as a 6-foot-9 guard. He's playing almost strictly on the perimeter this season, seeing only a handful of minutes at the small-ball 4 position that -- as he continues to add bulk to his frame -- will likely be attractive to whatever NBA team drafts him. Defensively, Avdija has made a major upgrade to his intensity and consistency.
He is being asked to play a confined role offensively for a talented Maccabi squad in the midst of an outstanding season, rarely being utilized in situations where his ball-handling, court vision and creativity would shine. However, he drops enough glimpses of versatility, skill and feel to remind scouts of what makes him special, and he has shown as much in other settings.
Avdija's recent play and modern NBA fit -- combined with the struggles of the American prospects rated in front of him -- make him a player teams drafting early in the lottery will want to look at closely. He has hovered in the Nos. 5-6 range of our rankings all season and could get looks a little earlier than that, depending on how the lottery shakes out.
FrancePotential lottery pick Theo Maledon is in the midst of an up-and-down season with Euroleague club ASVEL. NBA teams have been frustrated by Maledon's difficult situation from a minutes and opportunity standpoint on one of the slowest and most conservative teams in the league, so it was interesting to see Maledon have one of his most aggressive games of the season, scoring 13 points in 14 minutes while getting to the free throw line a season-high seven times. Scouts historically have criticized Maledon for passivity, making this performance encouraging, though Maledon's coach kept his minutes down.
One reason for Maledon's struggle to carve out a more prominent role is his regression as a shooter, with his percentages dropping from an excellent 38% from beyond the arc and 85% from the free throw line last season to 30% and 67% this season, respectively. Before the game, Maledon went through a long warm-up complete with floaters and a mix of jumpers, and he shot the ball extremely well. His mechanics look clean, and he has been aggressive and confident this season taking open shots. He shows some comfort shooting off a screen and flashes of being able to make step-backs.
On a team that wants to grind out the shot clock, it's understandable that Maledon has seen his production drop off. Considering that he isn't blessed with elite athleticism and has taken a step back this season as a playmaker, it's safe to say that NBA teams will want to see a lot more out of him on both ends before once again projecting him as a lottery pick, like they did before the season.
In Cholet, 6-foot-7 guard Abdoulaye N'Doye has blossomed into a highly versatile player in his draft-eligible season. N'Doye's club started the game down 12-0, at which point his coach, Erman Kunter, made the unconventional decision to bench his starting point guard, Michael Stockton, and put the ball in his young player's hands. That resulted in a simply outstanding first half in which N'Doye scored eight points and dished out six assists, not leaving the court for a second, something I had never seen at this level in my 17 years of international scouting.
After nearly being relegated last season, Cholet is in the midst of an outstanding season, thanks in large part to the integral role N'Doye plays in their switching defensive scheme. With his 7-foot-2 wingspan, N'Doye is tasked with defending opposing point guards, but he will frequently and successfully switch onto bigs in pick-and-roll. N'Doye plays with impressive maturity for his age (21), posting a 65% true shooting percentage and 2-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio. He lacks a degree of aggressiveness and could stand to ramp up his intensity a notch, but it was impressive to see his contributions in his team's eventual blowout win.
With physical measurements comparable to those of Robert Covington, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Jerami Grant at the same age, N'Doye looks like a prototype NBA wing, provided he continues to improve his perimeter shooting. Surprisingly, N'Doye hasn't garnered significant attention from NBA teams thus far, as it seems most scouts have moved on to younger prospects after he took longer than expected to blossom. With 16 games plus a likely playoffs appearance left, expect that to change considering how productive he has been. The prospect of him being a first-round pick is certainly in the cards if he finishes the season well.
GermanyKillian Hayes is having an outstanding season in Germany. He appears to be in the best development situation of any of the potential lottery picks in Europe, as the Ulm organization is doing everything it can to help him reach his goal of playing in the NBA.
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According to several Ulm stakeholders, the team is investing $25 million to build an academy that they hope will become one of the premier destinations for elite youth prospects from Germany and abroad. They want Hayes to be the flag bearer for why future NBA players should sign in Ulm over other traditional hotspots. When Ulm started the season 2-11, with Hayes turning the ball over 57 times in his first 292 minutes, the team refused to pull him from the starting lineup. They've been rewarded for that with a much better version of Hayes the past two months, which has coincided with a 6-2 record in the German league -- and a huge increase in NBA decision-makers at each game.
Hayes struggled a bit in the game I attended, failing to make any real impact until the contest was well out of hand. He showed many of the flaws that scouts were already concerned about, regarding his average athleticism, struggles operating with his off-hand, inconsistent 3-point shooting, lack of midrange game and porous defense.
The appeal around Hayes revolves heavily around his excellent combination of size, length and strength for a PG, along with his playmaking ability. He's extremely shifty with the ball, using his strong frame, long strides, agility and polished footwork to get to his spots on the floor and throw in soft floaters off the glass. He sees the court well and gets his teammates involved, tossing an excellent 8.6 assists per 40 minutes. He has been shooting the ball very well off the dribble this season, despite a low release. When his motor is running hot, he can be a force putting pressure on the ball, getting in passing lanes and using his strong tools to crash the glass, though he isn't consistent in this area.
Hayes has clearly hit a great groove the past six-to-eight weeks. The caveat has been that he has mostly struggled against better competition, playing in a league that is fairly watered down after the top handful of teams and lacking athleticism comparable to that of NBA players. Pushing Hayes to his weaker right hand, trapping him in ball screens and forcing him to make decisions against length have made him uncomfortable, so we'll have to see if he's able to maintain his efficiency and productivity as the season moves on.
For now, Hayes has reestablished himself as a potential lottery pick, though the glut of point guards in this draft indicates that there is still a lot left to play for heading into June.
― lag∞n, Thursday, 16 January 2020 18:23 (four years ago) link
TIER 5
he top 125 NBA players: The Athletic’s Player Tiers, Tier 5 — from Aaron Gordon to Tyler Herro
Seth Partnow Oct 19, 2020 127 “What do we have? What do we need? What do we have to do to get there?”—Every NBA Executive, today. Possibly apocryphal.
The NBA playoffs can serve as a great separator. Every year, we relearn the lessons of just how big the difference can be between being effective during the grind of a long season and being able to perform against the higher level opposition in the intense, detail-oriented arena of a postseason series. Twenty-nine teams have been found wanting. Even the champion Lakers, once the champagne dries, know they need to get better if they are going to do it again in however long it is until we do this again. For every one of those teams, the burning question is:
“Just how close are we?”
Everything about a team’s strategic planning flows from the answer to that one question.
This starts with an accurate assessment of one’s roster. This is why having the playoffs fresh in mind is so useful. Rather than the fuzzy optimism of the preseason, when everyone is undefeated, teams have either fallen short of the playoffs totally, while all but one has had shortcomings fully exposed, and on national TV to boot. In most seasons, the champions themselves have been stretched and can thus identify areas where they can shore things up.
Thus, every front office in the NBA exists in a constant state of evaluating every player, frequently by way of direct A/B comparisons. This exercise is done with more formality in some organizations in a process that can take weeks to get through the entire league, while others operate more on spinning a series of hypotheticals. A formal version intended to rate or rank every player in the league will take weeks or a month or more as the group involved dives deep to “beat the list up” as the expression goes.
One common methodology for this evaluation is taking every player on a roster and asking, “Would we trade this player for the 60th pick in the upcoming draft? For the 59th? 58th?” and so on until you get to yes. In practice, very few of these trades are plausible or even possible under the restrictions of the salary cap, but aligning with draft picks does create a sort of universal scale of value with which to measure. Another approach, which we have taken here, is to attempt to stratify players into groupings of similar ability levels in the recognition that precise distinctions when players are of very similar ability is much more a question of taste and context than of objectively evaluated impact or value.
This exercise is further complicated by the degree to which the slightly different questions asked can lead to widely varying answers. Are we most concerned about this year (for a current contender), the next three years (for a team on the rise) or what players will be in three years (a team early in a rebuild)? Do we account for contracts and so are we measuring “asset value” or do we just care about playing ability? Is this an “all-30” rating or “value for our roster and system?”
There are a lot of moving parts here, and the same organization will arrange them in different configurations even within the same season, depending on the opportunity or transaction being considered. To aid in these discussions, most if not every team has some sort of “board,” whether physical (a whiteboard or more likely magnet board) or digital (such as a fancy touchscreen), which contains basic information about every player in the league. Position, age, contract (years and dollars), their agent’s name, perhaps some information on if the player has notable character or injury “flags” and so on.
While we at The Athletic can’t grade the rosters of any one team to the degree of detail as those on the inside can — back in January, John Hollinger and I discussed the ways in which player intel passes around the league — we have a leg up in that we have neither attachment to, nor disgust with, any players since we do not have our own team to be biased toward. From experience, I can attest how hard it can be to avoid having hope for a young player’s improvement transform into expectation that he is already there. Similarly, familiarity can breed, if not contempt, then at least disdain for the things a player can’t do at the expense of appreciating what he brings in other areas.
In an effort to provide the best snapshot in time of where each team is from a top-end talent perspective, this is the first installment of the first annual early edition of The Athletic’s NBA Player Tiers.
I’ll discuss the methodology and some of the research behind it in greater detail below, but for those interested more in the broad strokes and “get to the damn rankings already,” a summary via FAQ of what exactly we’re doing here.
Why tiers?
Player production and value are too contextual to feel really good about ordered rankings. When choosing between two players of similar ability, the preference for which player a team would rather have is usually “it depends.” Each tier and sub-tier is meant to reflect the group among which “it depends.” By comparison, players in higher tiers will almost always be preferred to players in lower, with some obvious positional caveats. For example, a team that has Nikola Jokic in place could easily prefer Paul George to Joel Embiid even though (spoiler) Embiid is in a slightly higher tier in this iteration. But that is an edge case rather than the rule.
What time frame are we talking?
The tiers are intended to reflect value towards winning a title next season, with a few temporary health-related exceptions.
Who created these tiers?
Well, me. In consultation with a number of folks here at The Athletic, people in the public analytics community and people working in the league with analytics, coaching and scouting backgrounds all represented.
How was the size of the tiers decided?
Discussion of the research behind the number of players fit into various tiers is below, but the short version is it was based on historical precedent of the number of players to reach certain levels of production on average each season.
How were players assigned tiers?
I started with a few holistic metrics, multi-year versions of Regularized Adjusted Plus/Minus and Player Impact Plus/Minus (more on these below if you’re interested in the details), adjusted up or down based on contextual factors, playoff performances and insights from knowledgeable people in a variety of media, public analytics and team-side roles. But ultimately, it was primarily my best judgment weighing those factors and inputs.
Also, I hate your favorite team/player so that’s why.
What about injuries? Contracts? Age?
I mentioned some of the different factors that can drive the evaluation of players in the intro, and contextualizing the ratings does require that context. In order, players were considered from the standpoint of value to a top 10-ish team looking to contend for a title next season and are contract-agnostic. Thus the tiers are not intended to reflect “asset values” of players, and age is only considered as far as the likelihood of sizable improvement or rapid decline heading into next year.
A few younger players (most notably Zion Williamson and Ja Morant) were bumped up a tier or two to account for the likelihood of “The Leap” next year. Injuries are tricky, as will be discussed along with players such as Blake Griffin, Klay Thompson and, of course, Kevin Durant. The broad assumption is that I assumed availability to play, but took into consideration how a particularly bad injury or series of injuries might have diminished a player’s physical abilities to the point where his effectiveness has been or might be eroded.
Are the players within each tier ranked?
No. The purpose of this project is to rank players by categorizing them into similar tiers. Within those tiers, the players are ranked by category (A, B or C, depending on the size of the tier) and then listed in alphabetical order (by first name) within that category.
With all that out of the way and without further ado, we begin The Athletic’s Player Tiers Project with Tier 5 on Monday. Each ensuing tier will be unveiled as the week continues.
• Tier 1 – Revealed Friday morning• Tier 2 – Revealed Thursday morning• Tier 3 – Revealed Wednesday morning• Tier 4 – Revealed Tuesday morning* Editor’s Note: Scroll to the right for more stats.
Tiers 4 & 5: Players 38 -1254ABrandon IngramNOP8.9$28.62-0.83-0.28-0.55-0.15-0.24-0.59-0.66-1.25NA4ABrook LopezMIL24.9$79.792.540.581.961.632.621.252.844.091.894ACJ McCollumPOR22.6$72.471.381.86-0.480.752.721.77-0.890.88-2.024ADanilo GallinariOKC16.5$52.702.142.92-0.781.114.773.35-0.912.44-2.244ADanny GreenLAL24.4$78.053.832.281.551.774.121.091.842.931.134ADe'Aaron FoxSAC11.3$36.23-0.300.72-1.02-0.421.160.45-1.26-0.82NA4ADeMar DeRozanSAS19.0$60.920.881.98-1.10-0.051.831.44-1.360.08-2.494ADerrick RoseDET4.6$14.88-0.770.94-1.71-0.21-2.000.97-2.39-1.43-0.704ADomantas SabonisIND18.7$59.921.921.000.931.421.880.450.991.44-1.484AFred VanVleetTOR19.1$61.102.861.631.231.034.691.130.801.93-0.914AGoran DragicMIA12.2$38.900.910.95-0.040.352.500.84-0.98-0.140.524AGordon HaywardBOS12.5$39.902.612.240.372.343.861.97-0.511.46-2.334AJoe InglesUTA27.0$86.512.971.131.841.972.500.781.181.961.514AJohn WallWAS6.4$20.500.32-0.380.71NA3.090.710.170.880.804AJusuf NurkicPOR18.5$59.173.000.032.98NA4.530.633.133.77-1.914ALaMarcus AldridgeSAS24.5$78.462.831.201.63-0.053.780.990.581.57-0.304AMalcolm BrogdonIND14.7$46.881.381.050.330.833.821.080.081.16-1.324AMarcus SmartBOS18.1$58.021.59-0.161.761.082.170.481.091.570.984ANikola VucevicORL27.3$87.242.711.481.230.733.222.631.804.43-2.564AP.J. TuckerHOU20.8$66.411.540.770.770.841.22-0.420.710.292.164ARobert CovingtonHOU25.8$82.643.500.343.160.194.680.043.613.65-0.194AShai Gilgeous-AlexanderOKC9.1$29.17-0.650.27-0.920.40-0.920.55-0.550.00-1.454ATobias HarrisPHI16.4$52.63-0.440.42-0.860.79-0.120.53-0.480.060.814AVictor OladipoIND17.9$57.253.501.082.420.274.861.431.713.142.924BBojan BogdanovicUTA17.5$55.930.851.05-0.201.65-1.180.65-0.620.04-0.984BCaris LeVertBKN7.3$23.30-0.53-0.11-0.420.290.49-0.26-0.71-0.97-2.444BD'Angelo RussellMIN8.6$27.47-1.240.45-1.69-1.54-1.531.63-2.02-0.39-2.214BEric BledsoeMIL27.6$88.452.291.730.561.584.713.211.744.951.624BJ.J. RedickNOP18.1$57.861.502.22-0.730.142.412.33-1.261.060.044BJaren JacksonMEM5.7$18.36-1.08-1.220.14-1.34-1.80-0.810.75-0.06NA4BJoe HarrisBKN16.0$51.221.351.360.011.210.790.97-1.28-0.30-3.034BJohn CollinsATL12.4$39.630.81-0.070.88-0.271.940.74-0.550.19NA4BLou WilliamsLAC15.2$48.771.422.92-1.490.090.352.58-3.40-0.82-1.414BMike ConleyUTA13.1$41.781.281.130.15-0.824.672.03-0.041.991.364BMontrezl HarrellLAC16.0$51.352.141.610.531.783.351.29-0.520.77-3.394BMyles TurnerIND16.2$51.800.63-1.231.860.250.85-0.992.361.37-0.554BOG AnunobyTOR11.4$36.350.630.070.560.710.74-1.130.94-0.19-0.434BOtto PorterCHI20.4$65.414.622.891.730.575.131.681.453.13-0.114BPatrick BeverleyLAC15.0$48.023.382.041.352.435.650.781.462.24-0.014BRicky RubioPHX23.7$75.892.860.652.201.563.470.701.792.491.784BSpencer DinwiddieBKN15.9$50.920.511.57-1.060.161.371.92-1.200.72-1.304BZach LaVineCHI5.9$18.86-1.740.46-2.21-1.59-3.281.11-2.54-1.42NA5AAaron GordonORL19.7$63.081.270.560.71-0.223.440.800.581.38-2.185AAl HorfordPHI26.6$84.983.551.492.051.045.361.411.623.041.095AAndre DrummondCLE23.5$75.220.900.91-0.02-1.212.510.662.052.71-2.315AAndrew WigginsGSW15.3$49.100.031.27-1.24-0.980.510.69-1.04-0.35-2.075AAron BaynesPHX9.8$31.452.07-0.442.51-0.243.98-1.652.330.67-2.845ABlake GriffinDET16.1$51.541.791.280.510.103.601.86-0.511.35-0.435ABogdan BogdanovicSAC9.6$30.64-0.860.29-1.14-0.640.140.16-1.05-0.89NA5ABrandon ClarkeMEM3.5$11.310.640.79-0.160.551.601.060.011.07NA5ABuddy HieldSAC17.9$57.281.281.40-0.12-0.601.121.36-1.230.13NA5AChristian WoodDET4.9$15.711.801.580.232.093.801.28-0.101.18NA5AClint CapelaATL18.8$60.130.96-0.551.51-0.252.231.041.862.901.035ADaniel TheisBOS10.2$32.551.460.680.791.202.89-0.441.561.120.785ADanuel HouseHOU10.0$32.141.721.580.140.762.781.24-0.181.06-1.185ADavis BertansWAS15.0$47.842.342.59-0.250.613.212.45-0.561.89-0.125ADeandre AytonPHX6.8$21.60-0.20-0.880.680.430.94-0.11-0.38-0.49NA5ADejounte MurraySAS8.7$27.750.59-1.321.91-1.021.86-1.662.210.55-0.585ADennis SchroderOKC16.3$52.291.750.850.902.202.250.11-0.65-0.54-0.495ADerrick WhiteSAS11.9$38.081.880.201.680.293.740.910.991.900.605ADevonte' GrahamCHA5.1$16.23-0.441.34-1.78-0.370.101.21-2.14-0.93NA5ADuncan RobinsonMIA9.0$28.672.922.430.493.524.532.320.102.420.785AEric GordonHOU19.5$62.323.243.110.13-0.602.652.63-1.131.50-3.465AEvan FournierORL15.9$50.840.651.54-0.89-0.430.031.62-1.380.24-5.695AGary HarrisDEN15.8$50.441.110.011.110.461.350.230.510.74-0.635AGeorge HillMIL15.5$49.562.942.240.702.393.860.630.831.460.535AIvica ZubacLAC10.2$32.712.59-0.753.341.441.85-0.412.652.242.565AJae CrowderMIA10.4$33.41-1.250.44-1.70-1.651.070.19-0.47-0.28-2.375AJarrett AllenBKN15.2$48.541.250.430.820.213.680.710.090.79-2.125AJerami GrantDEN11.9$38.18-0.130.21-0.34-1.00-1.18-0.50-0.09-0.59-2.325AJonas ValanciunasMEM15.3$49.101.650.880.781.110.541.150.771.910.995AJonathan IsaacORL8.9$28.490.24-1.201.440.842.58-1.472.370.90-1.015AJosh RichardsonPHI19.3$61.771.65-0.061.700.491.73-0.580.890.31-3.005AKentavious Caldwell-PopeLAL12.3$39.450.571.31-0.740.841.42-0.18-1.06-1.240.685AKevin LoveCLE13.2$42.261.421.60-0.17-0.975.042.47-0.352.12-0.535ALuke KennardDET10.2$32.581.751.170.580.572.340.25-0.37-0.12-1.765AMarc GasolTOR20.5$65.742.520.641.882.164.04-0.832.301.480.105AMaxi KleberDAL12.5$40.101.14-0.201.330.622.09-0.250.860.61-1.825AMikal BridgesPHX12.3$39.281.030.670.361.152.37-0.110.890.77NA5AMitchell RobinsonNYK9.2$29.520.990.590.400.283.220.172.462.63NA5APaul MillsapDEN18.9$60.324.091.572.521.985.421.421.653.06-0.335ARoyce O'NealeUTA16.9$54.143.021.221.791.803.68-0.391.541.15-2.245ASerge IbakaTOR15.1$48.231.060.980.080.761.360.560.040.600.785ASeth CurryDAL8.0$25.712.352.120.231.062.150.71-1.41-0.70-0.255ASteven AdamsOKC30.0$95.913.962.401.561.005.052.061.083.13-2.475AT.J. WarrenIND9.7$31.01-1.01-0.36-0.650.150.170.38-0.90-0.53-1.505ATim HardawayDAL16.1$51.391.661.85-0.192.103.871.58-1.69-0.11-1.595ATyler HerroMIA1.3$4.08-2.00-1.11-0.90-1.52-4.38-0.59-1.69-2.29-2.29About Tier 5, the above average rotation players: Since we won’t discuss each player in Tier 5 in turn as we will for Tiers 1-4, it’s worth identifying what this level of players includes in broad strokes. While at any given time there are around 250-275 regular rotation players in the NBA, half or more are somewhat fungible. The term “just a guy” has been used at times. Discussing a team’s seventh man in possible trade discussions, an evaluator might say, “I like him as a player, but he’s just a guy.” Meaning he’ll give competent minutes, but won’t move the needle much, especially in a playoff setting. By contrast, Tier 5 is where guys start to matter a little more. They won’t affect every matchup, and will be more useful in some situations than others, but this first group of above average rotation players can be the little something extra that pushes a team over the top in an otherwise close matchup.
In reality, there are probably a few players left off this list that could easily be included. But “the top 137 players” doesn’t have quite the same ring as “Top 125.” So apologies to fans of Kelly Oubre Jr., Harrison Barnes or Kelly Olynyk who just missed the cut.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 17:51 (three years ago) link
TIER 4
TIER 4B1.5 Way Bigs
* Editor’s Note: Scroll to the right on charts for more stats.
Jaren Jackson Jr.MEM5.7 wins - $18.36mmDPIPM: +0.75 (99th)ORAPM: -1.22 (328th)John CollinsATL12.4 wins - $39.63mmDRAPM: +0.88 (93rd)DPIPM: -0.55 (230th)Montrezl HarrellLAC16.0 wins - $51.35mm1yr RAPM: +1.78 (31st)PO PIPM: -3.39 (267th)Myles TurnerIND16.2 wins - $51.80mmDPIPM: +2.36 (15th)ORAPM: -1.23 (329th)With the downward positional pressure that seems to occur with regularity in recent postseasons, there are a number of bigs who have been or are likely to be very productive regular season players for whom you worry about working in playoff situations. Obviously, Harrell’s struggles contributing to the Clippers’ earlier-than-expected departure have been discussed at length, but it’s worth noting just how much worse his playoff results have been over the last several years, even as his high energy aggression is a definite asset night-to-night in a regular schedule.
Turner hasn’t been fortunate enough to have an extended playoff run, but he has yet to show the ability to punish size advantages to a sufficient degree to not be a “one-way mismatch” guy in the playoffs, though one suspects that a more progressive offensive scheme might at least make better use of his jump shooting.
Collins and Jackson are still developing, but neither has had much chance to prove himself in high-leverage situations. To this point in his career, Jackson has been more a collection of talent than a productive player, struggling in particular with a sky-high foul rate that has tended to limit both his playing time and defensive effectiveness. Meanwhile, Collins’ increasing offensive versatility — he showcased an improved 3-point touch in the half-season of action he managed this past year — is encouraging, but he has yet to prove the ability to defend and rebound to a sufficient level to be a playoff-quality small-ball 5. Collins is also an interesting case because he is one of the few cases where RAPM and PIPM strongly disagree upon which end of the floor he is more effective. Among minute-qualifying players, he is 211st in ORAPM/93rd in DRAPM compared to 98th in OPIPM/230th in DPIPM.
Shooters
Bojan BogdanovicUtah17.5 wins - $55.93mm1yr RAPM: +1.65 (34th)5yr RAPM: -1.18 (300th)J.J. RedickNOP18.1 wins - $57.86mmOPIPM +2.33 (32nd)DPIPM: -1.26 (316th)Joe HarrisBKN16.0 wins - $51.22mm1yr RAPM: +1.21 (57th)DPIPM: -1.28 (321st)Otto Porter Jr.CHI20.4 wins $65.41mmRAPM: +4.62 (11th)PO PIPM: -0.11 (105th)Otto Porter Jr. might be a surprising inclusion here, but he is among the more underrated deep shooters in the league, with the versatility to knock down both open spot-ups and more difficult shots off movement. In fact, according to the Second Spectrum data shared with The Athletic by a league source, Porter is the all-time leader (post-2013) in 3-point shooting off of movement, slightly ahead of and in the company of Redick, Kyle Korver, Klay Thompson, Duncan Robinson and Davis Bertans. In fact, the main thing keeping Porter from being much higher on the tiers (he’s 11th in 3-year RAPM and 31st in 3-year PIPM among active players) is his consistent inability to stay on the floor, averaging fewer than 1,500 minutes over the past three seasons as he’s dealt with a variety of injuries.
Redick and Harris are more straightforward bombers, with Redick complementing with his movement, shooting accuracy and high volume. Harris is also a great shooter, but is a better driver, playmaker and defender than he is frequently credited for.
Bogdanovic is an imperfect fit for this group, as he profiles as a more versatile if not quite as good a shooter as the other three in here, but is a strata lower in terms of overall production than the “versatile wings” group in Tier 4A. He is also a relatively late bloomer, as indicated by how poorly he grades in long-term (5-year) RAPM. This largely coincides with the split between his first three seasons in the NBA, mostly with the Nets and half a season in Washington, where he was a decent (36.9 percent) 3-point shooter before becoming an elite, high-volume weapon in Indiana and now Utah (41.3 percent).
Offensive Lead Guards
Caris LeVertBKN7.3 wins - $23.30mm1yr RAPM: +0.29 (152nd)DPIPM: 0.71 (254th)D'Angelo RussellMIN8.6 wins - $27.47mmOPIPM: +1.63 (49th)DPIPM: -2.02 (354th)Lou WilliamsLAC15.2 wins - $48.77mmORAPM: +2.92 (16th)DPIPM: -3.40 (375th)Spencer DinwiddieBKN15.9 wins - $50.92mmOPIPM: +1.92 (41st)DPIPM: -1.20 (309th)Zach LaVineCHI5.9 wins - $18.86mmOPIPM: +1.11 (69th)DRAPM: -2.21 (369th)Decent-but-not elite shot creation is one of the more overrated and overvalued skillsets in the modern game, at least as it relates to championship equity. Players with creation ability who can make a bad team respectable, but perhaps not make an already good team great are sometimes referred to as “floor raisers.” And that’s where this group mostly lands. Combined with the sort of defensive deficiencies that can turn players into targets in a later-round series, and the limitations, the lack of “ceiling raising” starts to show through.
Russell might seem like a strange inclusion here given that he made an All-Star team just last season. However, according to most impact metrics, there is little evidence of him elevating a team’s overall offensive production as much as his individual scoring and playmaking numbers might suggest — he rates 49th in OPIPM over the last three years, but when you back out his boxscore stats and look at ORAPM, he drops to 150th. Further, when he and Dinwiddie were on the Nets, Brooklyn was consistently better on offense with Dinwiddie running the show than Russell.
I’ll note that I am a huge fan of Caris LeVert’s game, but am always surprised at the degree to which production metrics don’t quite see it that way, and I wonder the extent to which he has rarely been the unquestioned lead creator on a team or even lineup grouping plays into that. Sadly, barring further moves, it is unlikely we see him in that role in Brooklyn next season as he goes into the season fourth on the creation pecking order behind Dinwiddie, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant.
Defensive Lead Guards
Eric BledsoeMIL27.6 wins - $88.45mmPIPM: +4.95 (11th)DRAPM: +0.56 (129th)Mike ConleyUTA13.1 wins - $41.78mm5yr RAPM: +4.67 (34th)DPIPM: -0.04 (171st)Patrick BeverleyLAC15.0 wins - $48.02mm1yr RAPM: +2.43 (8th)PO PIPM: -0.01 (85th)Ricky RubioPHX23.7 wins - $75.89mmDRAPM: +2.20 (20th)ORAPM: +0.65 (129th)In some ways, this group is the reverse of the above. Players who can hold their own and indeed provide positive value defensively, but can turn into passengers offensively. The shooting struggles of Bledsoe and Rubio are well-documented. Though Beverley is a capable shooter (39.4 percent in his three Clippers’ seasons, 40.4 percent in the playoffs), his issue is the volume of offensive contributions. He doesn’t shoot often enough (around 5 C&S 3FGA/100 with the Clips, compared to around 8.5/100 for players like Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Danny Green and the 7.5/100 range of guys like Josh Richardson or Wes Matthews over that span) to make up for his lack of overall offensive involvement, considering his sub 13 percent usage rate. Additional criticisms that separate Beverley from some of the 3&D types higher up the list include his defense being mildly overrated, in no small part due to his incredibly high propensity for fouling (his 4.2 PF/36 was easily the highest among point guards this season, and he is annually among the league “leaders” in most non-shooting fouls committed while the opponent is in the bonus).
Conley is in this subgroup mainly because he fits here slightly better than he would in the “offense first” category, but he is probably closer to in the middle of the two, but at a similar level of production to both groups after a disappointing first season in Utah.
OG Anunoby
OG AnunobyTOR11.4 wins - $36.35mmDPIPM: +0.94 (82nd)OPIPM: -1.13 (258th)A player who could easily find himself a rung or two up the list after next season, OG is already one of the better on-ball defenders of big wings in the league, which hasn’t quite translated to elite overall defensive contributions. But the eye test and his traditional defensive counting stats (he was one of only 12 players/7 non-bigs to have both steal and block percentages over 2.0 last season) suggest it is only a matter of time for it to do so.
While his offensive game has improved to a degree, to move up the list he probably does have to become a little more active in that regard. Even Robert Covington, the sort of platonic ideal for the bigger 3&D role, sported a 17.0 usage rate compared to Anunoby’s 14.3 percent, and was much more willing to take above-the-break 3s, attempting 9.0/100 compared to only 2.6/100 from Anunoby. OG doesn’t have a big corner-ATB split (40.0 and 38.0 percent respectively) so there are indications he can do so. But for him to move into that sort of “elite role player” territory, he has to actually do it.
TIER 4AStars on the backside of the curve
DeMar DeRozanSAS19.0 wins - $60.92mmORAPM: +1.98 (43rd)DPIPM: -1.36 (328th)Derrick RoseDET4.6 wins - $14.88mmOPIPM: +0.97 (81st)DPIPM: -2.39 (365th)Goran DragicMIA12.2 wins - $38.90mmPO PIPM: +0.54 (54th)DPIPM: -0.98 (288th)John WallWAS6.4 wins - $20.50mmPO PIPM: +0.80 (42nd)ORAPM: -0.38 (255th)LaMarcus AldridgeSAS24.5 wins - $78.46mmRAPM: +2.83 (40th)1yr RAPM: -0.05 (192nd)Father time remains undefeated. Whether through the normal aging process for Aldridge and DeRozan or in large part because of injuries in the case of Rose and Wall, physical declines are real and can be highly impactful. This can result either in an abrupt loss of effectiveness or more gradual diminutions of value, which accumulate over the course of years, taking once All-Stars into the realm of merely nice rotation pieces, as is the case for the Spurs duo.
Before the iniquity of his plantar fascia injury in his first half of Finals play, Dragic was enjoying a renaissance, the driving force behind Miami’s offense for much of the Eastern Conference playoffs.
At least in the last two years, Rose has demonstrated a re-emergence of some of his explosiveness — horizontally if not vertically, I don’t think he’s driving the lane and turning the ball over on defender’s heads much these days. But the wear and tear has turned him into more of a 25 MPG dynamo than someone able to carry starter minutes night-to-night. Obviously, this is useful but also needs to be taken into account when assessing his place in the league’s hierarchy.
Wall, in particular, is one of the more difficult players in the league to assess, as he has missed the better part of two years and suffered several injuries, each of which can sap athleticism. He relied on his incredible burst and end-to-end speed for a lot of his value. At the same time, for reasons I discussed with our Wizards’ beat writer Fred Katz recently, there are reasons to believe he can transition into more of a co-lead alongside Bradley Beal than Rose was able to do in the years immediately following his own injuries.
“Not Quite A Star” Bigs
Brook LopezMIL24.9 wins - $79.79mmDPIPM: +2.84 (8th)ORAPM: +0.58 (139th)Domantas SabonisIND18.7 wins - $59.92mm1yr RAPM: +1.42 (49th)PO PIPM: -1.48 (213th)Jusuf NurkicPOR18.5 wins - $59.17mmDPIPM: + 3.13 (4th)PO PIPM: -1.91 (231st)Nikola VucevicORL27.3 wins - $87.24mmPIPM: +4.43 (15th)PO PIPM: -2.56 (260th)A group of players who have combined very strong regular season contributions with some very notable struggles in the playoffs. No one embodies this quite as much as Vucevic, who has been a highly productive offensive workhorse for Orlando over the course of each season before finding himself, if not getting played off the floor, rendered substantially less effective by playoff defenses. A common thread might be that against the highest levels of competition, the general lack of mobility of the members of this group renders them exploitable on defense themselves. Sample sizes are small, but it might not be a coincidence that three of these four count playoff-only PIPM as the worst of their topline metrics.
Pacers Backcourt
Malcolm BrogdonIND14.7 wins - $46.88mm5yr RAPM: +3.82 (50th)PO PIPM: -1.32 (203rd)Victor OladipoIND17.9 wins - $57.25mmPO PIPM: +2.92 (13th)1yr RAPM: +0.27 (158th)While divergent from each other in terms of style — Oladipo the more explosive athlete, Brogdon a better shooter who uses strength and craft to get where he wants to go — Indiana has put two players together in their backcourt who are perhaps best described as “1.5s” halfway between lead and shooting guards. Given Oladipo’s slower-than-expected recovery from the devastating knee injury suffered in January 2019, it should not be too surprising that the pair failed to jell over the time it did spend together. If he can return to the level he showed in his 2017-18 campaign, and especially in that season’s playoffs, Oladipo would likely slide into Tier 3. But after such a long-term injury for a smaller guard somewhat reliant on athleticism, I think we need to see it first before slotting him back into that spot.
Brogdon was decently effective thrust into a lead ballhandling, primary offensive role for the first time, though he could not maintain the level of efficiency, or anything close to it, that he managed during his time as an elite role player in Milwaukee. Just the versatility to be able to take on either role has a great deal of value, but not quite enough to place him in the “Top 40 and up” category.
Versatile Wings
Danilo GallinariOKC16.5 wins - $52.70mmOPIPM: +3.35 (15th)DPIPM: - 0.91 (280th)Gordon HaywardBOS12.5 wins - $39.90mm1yr RAPM: + 2.34 (11th)DPIPM: -0.51 (222nd)Joe InglesUTA27.0 wins - $86.51mm1yr RAPM: +1.97 (24th5yr RAPM: +2.5 (100th)Tobias HarrisPHI16.4 wins - $52.63mmPO PIPM: +0.81 (41st)DRAPM: -0.86 (286th)This group of bigger wings who can all shoot, facilitate and even slide to the power forward slot at times doesn’t have the kind of elite individual talents needed to push its members into Tier 3, but by virtue of that versatility and range of skills are still highly valuable performers. Prior to his horrific injury six minutes into his Boston career, Hayward was in that group, but he has yet to fully regain the extra bit of pop that allowed him to attain that level. As a quick indicator, in his last year in Utah, he had 68 dunks. This year he managed 27. Even accounting for playing around 800 fewer minutes, that indicates a sizable drop in athleticism. And at this point, it’s doubtful he ever gets that back due to his bad injury luck.
Ingles is one player who could perhaps be in a slightly higher tier. He is 22nd in overall production over the last three seasons and has held up decently well in the playoffs. However, he has largely dodged the sort of dominant high usage wings in the postseason by virtue of Utah’s matchups over the last few seasons. Further, his individual production has likely been something of a function of Utah’s lack of offensive creators over the last few years. Given his shooting and size, he would still be an excellent role player on a team with a little more top-end talent, but the top-line value number would drop simply by virtue of the ball being in his hands less.
Elite Defensive Role Players
Marcus SmartBOS18.1 wins - $58.02mmDRAPM: +1.76 (38th)ORAPM: -0.16 (224th)P.J. TuckerHOU20.8 wins - $66.41mmPO PIPM: +2.16 (18th)OPIPM: -0.42 (194th)Robert CovingtonHOU25.8 wins - $82.64mmDPIPM: +3.61 (3rd)ORAPM: +0.34 (163rd)Danny GreenLAL24.4 wins - $78.05mmRAPM: +3.83 (19th)OPIPM: +1.09 (70th)This group was discussed above in terms of why Patrick Beverley and OG Anunoby aren’t in it.
While being comprised of some of the better defenders in the league, this group also provides enough offensive value, generally via shooting, though Smart is an underrated playmaker who has more shooting gravity than his average-to-slightly-below accuracy numbers over his career might suggest by virtue of his sheer willingness to let it fly.
Covington is another player not at all afraid to let it fly, ranking in the top 10 most aggressive shooters over the tracking data era in terms of the proportion of his attempts that have been contested. He is somewhat unusual in terms of top-level defenders in that he has been much more effective as a help defender than on the ball — an area where he has struggled in his postseason appearances. But as a help defender, he is one of the best in the league at getting his hands on the ball, in the small group of players with both steal and block percentages over 2 percent (12 minutes qualified players hit those marks, including Anunoby).
Tucker is the player for whom this is the most optimistic placement. The specialization of his offensive role in Houston working around Harden’s heliocentrism might not be replicable in another setting, and in that case, his high degree of reliance on the corner 3 (as opposed to above the break) could render him enough of a liability on that end to drop to Tier 4B or even Tier 5.
Green has long been on the shortlist for the title of “best role player in the game” for a number of years, perhaps evidenced by the fact that among the topline metrics I’ve used as the starting point for these tiers, he ranked 78th among qualifying players in his worst category. In this way, he is a perfect illustration of the difficulty in using all-in-one metrics to compare players across roles and contexts. Though we’ve never really seen him try, it is more than fair to surmise that Green would struggle in any sort of lead or even secondary creation role where ballhandling is a necessity. But in a pure 3&D role, RAPM style metrics have frequently rated him among the most highly effective players in the game as indicated by him being 19th in 3-year RAPM. Despite that level of impact, without the former, this is as high as the latter can reasonably take him or Covington for that matter.
Lead Guards on the Rise
De'Aaron FoxSAC11.3 wins - $36.23mmOPIPM: +0.45 (120th)DPIPM: -1.26 (316th)Fred VanVleetTOR19.1 wins - $61.1mm5yr RAPM: +4.69 (32nd)PO PIPM: -0.91 (173rd)Shai Gilgeous-AlexanderOKC9.1 wins* - $29.17mmOPIPM: +0.55 (113th)DRAPM: -0.92 (294th)Of these three, VanVleet is by far the most accomplished, while Gilgeous-Alexander and Fox are in this category more on flashes of potential and expectation of future improvement as they head into their third and fourth seasons respectively after each spending a single season at Kentucky. However, as VanVleet heads towards free agency, I would have some concerns about elevating him into a more prominent role than he has occupied in Toronto’s ensemble. While he has been one of the elite open 3-point shooters in the league over his career, he has been mediocre-to-poor on contested attempts. Given his size, it should not be a shock that he is also one of the least efficient finishers at the rim versus a contest. In a larger role, those two factors could easily tank his efficiency, drastically reducing his value to a championship-seeking team.
If that all seems like I’m tearing him down a little, it is more by way of explanation of why someone whose overall production metrics over his career would seem to indicate a much higher placement. While it is perhaps more obvious why a more primary role would not suit Danny Green, I think these factors suggest something similar would be in store for VanVleet if another team does sign him away this offseason to become its offensive leader.
In-between
Brandon IngramNOP8.9 wins - $28.62mm1yr RAPM: -0.15 (200th)RAPM: -0.83 (276th)CJ McCollumPOR22.6 wins - $72.47mmOPIPM: +1.77 (44th)DPIPM: -2.02 (276th)This feels slightly harsh on McCollum, who is a very talented scorer and excellent complement (at least offensively) to Damian Lillard, but the combination between his lackluster playoff showings combined with the fact that his gaudy estimated wins and production value is somewhat a function of his enormous minute load over the last three seasons (only four players who made the top 125 logged more regular-season minutes over that period than did McCollum) make me somewhat skeptical of him as a No. 2 option at the elite levels of play. Mediocre defensive metrics and relatively poor playoff production also point in that direction. As I tended to resolve all “ties” between Tiers by pushing a player down a level rather than up, those doubts led him here.
As for Ingram, I know he was an All-Star this year, and that he showed great improvements as a shooter in his first season in New Orleans, but most of his one-number ratings are extremely mediocre. Now to a degree, his numbers paid the price for the opponent shot luck, which made Zion Williamson look like a defensive stalwart in some measures in his pre-shutdown action (early returns which were not validated by play in the bubble, to put it mildly). But that only goes so far, and Ingram’s best ranking on the baseline metrics for this exercise was 200th. Let me be clear, I think he is better that those numbers suggest but am also going to see more before being willing to count him among the top 40 players in the league, All-Star appearance this past season or no.
Tier 4 in Full* Editor’s Note: Scroll to the right for more stats.
Tier 4: Players 38-794ABrandon IngramNOP8.9$28.62-0.83-0.28-0.55-0.15-0.24-0.59-0.66-1.25NA4ABrook LopezMIL24.9$79.792.540.581.961.632.621.252.844.091.894ACJ McCollumPOR22.6$72.471.381.86-0.480.752.721.77-0.890.88-2.024ADanilo GallinariOKC16.5$52.702.142.92-0.781.114.773.35-0.912.44-2.244ADanny GreenLAL24.4$78.053.832.281.551.774.121.091.842.931.134ADe'Aaron FoxSAC11.3$36.23-0.300.72-1.02-0.421.160.45-1.26-0.82NA4ADeMar DeRozanSAS19.0$60.920.881.98-1.10-0.051.831.44-1.360.08-2.494ADerrick RoseDET4.6$14.88-0.770.94-1.71-0.21-2.000.97-2.39-1.43-0.704ADomantas SabonisIND18.7$59.921.921.000.931.421.880.450.991.44-1.484AFred VanVleetTOR19.1$61.102.861.631.231.034.691.130.801.93-0.914AGoran DragicMIA12.2$38.900.910.95-0.040.352.500.84-0.98-0.140.524AGordon HaywardBOS12.5$39.902.612.240.372.343.861.97-0.511.46-2.334AJoe InglesUTA27.0$86.512.971.131.841.972.500.781.181.961.514AJohn WallWAS6.4$20.500.32-0.380.71NA3.090.710.170.880.804AJusuf NurkicPOR18.5$59.173.000.032.98NA4.530.633.133.77-1.914ALaMarcus AldridgeSAS24.5$78.462.831.201.63-0.053.780.990.581.57-0.304AMalcolm BrogdonIND14.7$46.881.381.050.330.833.821.080.081.16-1.324AMarcus SmartBOS18.1$58.021.59-0.161.761.082.170.481.091.570.984ANikola VucevicORL27.3$87.242.711.481.230.733.222.631.804.43-2.564AP.J. TuckerHOU20.8$66.411.540.770.770.841.22-0.420.710.292.164ARobert CovingtonHOU25.8$82.643.500.343.160.194.680.043.613.65-0.194AShai Gilgeous-AlexanderOKC9.1$29.17-0.650.27-0.920.40-0.920.55-0.550.00-1.454ATobias HarrisPHI16.4$52.63-0.440.42-0.860.79-0.120.53-0.480.060.814AVictor OladipoIND17.9$57.253.501.082.420.274.861.431.713.142.924BBojan BogdanovicUTA17.5$55.930.851.05-0.201.65-1.180.65-0.620.04-0.984BCaris LeVertBKN7.3$23.30-0.53-0.11-0.420.290.49-0.26-0.71-0.97-2.444BD'Angelo RussellMIN8.6$27.47-1.240.45-1.69-1.54-1.531.63-2.02-0.39-2.214BEric BledsoeMIL27.6$88.452.291.730.561.584.713.211.744.951.624BJ.J. RedickNOP18.1$57.861.52.22-0.730.142.412.33-1.261.060.044BJaren Jackson Jr.MEM5.7$18.36-1.08-1.220.14-1.34-1.8-0.810.75-0.06NA4BJoe HarrisBKN16.0$51.221.351.360.011.210.790.97-1.28-0.3-3.034BJohn CollinsATL12.4$39.630.81-0.070.88-0.271.940.74-0.550.19NA4BLou WilliamsLAC15.2$48.771.422.92-1.490.090.352.58-3.40-0.82-1.414BMike ConleyUTA13.1$41.781.281.130.15-0.824.672.03-0.041.991.364BMontrezl HarrellLAC16.0$51.352.141.610.531.783.351.29-0.520.77-3.394BMyles TurnerIND16.2$51.800.63-1.231.860.250.85-0.992.361.37-0.554BOG AnunobyTOR11.4$36.350.630.070.560.710.74-1.130.94-0.19-0.434BOtto Porter Jr.CHI20.4$65.414.622.891.730.575.131.681.453.13-0.114BPatrick BeverleyLAC15.0$48.023.382.041.352.435.650.781.462.24-0.014BRicky RubioPHX23.7$75.892.860.652.21.563.470.701.792.491.784BSpencer DinwiddieBKN15.9$50.920.511.57-1.060.161.371.92-1.200.72-1.304BZach LaVineCHI5.9$18.86-1.740.46-2.21-1.59-3.281.11-2.54-1.42NA
ayyyyy thanks
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 17:58 (three years ago) link
Bosko Balaban Stats For SeasonName Bosko BalabanTeam Aston VillaTotal Appearances 0Starts 0Substituted 0Total Minutes Played 0Avg Minutes Played Per Start 0Goals 0Avg Goal Mins When Starting 0.0Avg Mins Played/Goal Scored 0Goals Scored As Sub 0Number of Bookings 0Total Booking Minutes 0Avg Bookings Per Start 0Number of Red Cards 0Total Red Card Minutes 0Avg Red Cards Per Start 0
― Piven After Midnight (The Yellow Kid), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 19:58 (three years ago) link
the design of these athletic pieces is awful. little tiny tables with bad font where you have to endlessly scroll right.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 21 October 2020 17:43 (three years ago) link
they shd just have a single page with a list of players and comments thatre like "fuck you" "who cares" "haha"
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 21 October 2020 17:58 (three years ago) link
1. james harden "lol why are you reading this eat shit loser"
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 21 October 2020 17:59 (three years ago) link
column headers for random advanced stats 100 lines above where you’re reading is pretty much “f u, nerd”
― circles, Wednesday, 21 October 2020 18:39 (three years ago) link
do we have anyone w/ espn+ access?
Final stats-based projections for the 2020 Draft are up today, along with full projections for everyone* in the top 100: https://t.co/UJc9l2zzM2 (ESPN+)*Except for a few international prospects without sufficient high-level playing time— Kevin Pelton (@kpelton) November 12, 2020
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 12 November 2020 22:17 (three years ago) link
How many top prospects are there in the 2020 NBA draft?
This was an unusual year even before the NCAA tournament and many conference tournaments were canceled because of the coronavirus pandemic because there was so little consensus about the top prospects, so few of whom played college basketball.
That bears out statistically too. Historically, the best prospects have been those who rate in the top 10 of my stats-only projections and go among the top 10 picks. Typically, there's an average of about three such players from the college ranks, but this year only one NCAA player among ESPN's top 10 prospects is also in my stats-only top 10: Iowa State guard Tyrese Haliburton.
How much does an unusually strong crop of prospects playing overseas, highlighted by LaMelo Ball, help fill the void?
Let's take an updated look at my draft projections that combine statistics and scouting projections, including where players rank in our top 100.
My statistical projections start by translating NCAA or international performance to projected NBA rookie performance, also factoring in regression to the mean for outlier performance. I then calculate projected value over the player's first five NBA seasons by combining rookie projections with age. To that stats-only version, I also add each player's top-100 ranking to build the more accurate consensus projections.
One note on this year's projections: While my projections have utilized translated performance in the Nike EYBL thanks to statistics compiled by Neil Johnson of ESPN Stats & Information, issues with the data collection during the 2018 EYBL meant they were no longer predictive of college performance as in past years. So I have not included EYBL stats from that year, when the bulk of this year's one-and-done prospects played AAU, though projections for players who participated in the 2017 EYBL (like James Wiseman) still incorporate that data.
For more details and past projections, check out a more detailed explanation. Otherwise, let's get to my top 30.
1. LaMelo Ball
Illawarra HawksPGTop 100: No. 1Stats: No. 1
Consensus: 4.9 WARP
In a draft that is wide open at the top, Ball's performance in the Australian NBL stands out. While the level of competition was low, Ball rated as the fourth-best player in the league at age 18 -- ahead of NBA veterans Bryce Cotton and Scott Machado, among others.
Ball's inefficient shooting (he made just 25% of his 3-point attempts) is a concern, but his playmaking and rebounding are both preternaturally strong. As a result, the gap between his consensus projection and anyone else's is larger than the difference between No. 2 and No. 9 in the rankings.
2. Tyrese Haliburton
Iowa StatePGTop 100: No. 8Stats: No. 2
Consensus: 3.4 WARP
Haliburton's freshman season stood out statistically, though he had a historically low usage rate for a prospect, finishing just 9% of the Cyclones' plays with a shot, trip to the free throw line or turnover. A strong performance at last summer's FIBA U19 World Cup put Haliburton firmly on the radar, and he backed it up by more than doubling his usage rate to 20% as a sophomore without sacrificing much efficiency.
Haliburton's strong steal and block rates are key indicators of his ability to read plays on defense, and he projects as one of the better shooters in the draft after hitting 43% of his 3s in college.
3. Anthony Edwards
GeorgiaSGTop 100: No. 2Stats: No. 12
Consensus: 2.8 WARP
A decent but not spectacular freshman season marks Edwards as a relatively risky top pick. Other top-3 players with similar stats-only projections include hits (Victor Oladipo, Derrick Rose) but also big misses (Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Andrew Wiggins).
Edwards' value as a pro probably will depend on his ability to become a consistent 3-point threat after hitting just 29% of his 7.7 attempts per game in 2019-20.
4. Cole Anthony
North CarolinaPGTop 100: No. 19Stats: No. 3
Consensus: 2.7 WARP
Few top prospects have had such a big disparity between AAU and college performance as Anthony, who rated as the EYBL's best player both in 2017 as a rising junior (which is part of this projection) and again before his senior year of high school in 2018.
Based strictly on his season at North Carolina, where he made a disappointing 40% of his 2-point attempts and was far less effective accumulating assists and steals, Anthony would rate as a late first-round prospect rather than on in the top 5.
5. Devin Vassell
Florida StateWTop 100: No. 11Stats: No. 4
Consensus: 2.6 WARP
The strongest 3-and-D prospect in this year's draft, Vassell made 42% of his 3-point attempts over two seasons at Florida State and boasts a strong combination of steal and block rates that marks him as a plus wing defender.
He compares well to Danny Green coming out of North Carolina. Since we originally ran my projections in June, Vassell has moved up five spots in the top 100, moving him up to fifth in my consensus projections.
6. Deni Avdija
Maccabi Tel AvivFTop 100: No. 4Stats: No. 9
Unlike almost everyone else in this class, Avdija returned to action over the summer, becoming the youngest player ever to win MVP of the Israeli Basketball Premier League. That solidified his projection, which improved slightly, but Avdija already ranked sixth overall.
7. Onyeka Okongwu
USCPFTop 100: No. 5Stats: No. 13
Consensus: 2.3 WARP
The top-rated post player in my projections, Okongwu was productive enough as a freshman to offset the higher replacement level for big men. Okongwu has the fifth-best block projection among players in our top 100, along with an atypically strong steal rate for a post player. Okongwu was efficient offensively thanks to 62% shooting on 2s and 72% from the foul line.
8. R.J. Hampton
New Zealand BreakersGTop 100: No. 15Stats: No. 5
Consensus: 2.2 WARP
Hampton wasn't nearly as effective in the NBL as Ball was, ranking as the league's 45th-best player on a per-minute basis. He was almost equally inefficient without the kind of elite playmaking we saw from Ball, and his strong projection relies more heavily on his stats being regressed to the mean.
As a result, I'd be wary of considering Hampton a top-5 prospect but would defer to those scouts who believe he belongs in the middle of the first round.
9. Killian Hayes
Ratiopharm UlmPGTop 100: No. 10Stats: No. 15
Consensus: 1.8 WARP
Expect growing pains if a team drafts the 18-year-old Hayes in the top 10 and gives him the keys to the offense right away. Only two NBA-bound players in my database (Kendall Marshall and David Stockton) have had higher projected turnover rates.
Yet in time, Hayes' strong finishing for his size and court vision could make him a capable lead ball handler.
10. Aaron Nesmith
VanderbiltWTop 100: No. 13Stats: No. 16
Consensus: 1.7 WARP
Nesmith ranks this high on his potential as a shooter. He shot an incredible 52% on 115 3-point attempts during an abbreviated sophomore season, and while that's obviously not sustainable -- Nesmith shot just 34% from beyond the arc as a freshman -- 83% foul shooting does mark him as likely to show NBA 3-point range.
11. Isaiah Joe
ArkansasSGTop 100: No. 48Stats: No. 6
Consensus: 1.6 WARP
Perhaps the best pure shooter in the draft, Joe made just 34% of his 3s as a sophomore but attempted an incredible 10.6 per game. He hit 41% of his 8.0 attempts as a freshman. While he slumped beyond the arc, Joe did hit 89% of his free throws as a sophomore, an encouraging sign. Joe doesn't do much else besides shoot, which helps explain his low spot in the top 100s, but given solid size and his 3-point volume, he's got a chance to be a Terrence Ross-style threat off the bench.
12. Isaac Okoro
AuburnSFTop 100: No. 7Stats: No. 33
Okoro ranks in the top 15 largely on the strength of his position in the top 100, as he had an underwhelming freshman campaign for a lottery pick. Only Okoro's solid block rate for a wing showcases the athletic potential scouts value, and he must improve on 29% 3-point shooting -- with 67% accuracy at the foul line not encouraging in that regard.
13. Malachi Flynn
San Diego StatePGTop 100: No. 31Stats: No. 8
Consensus: 1.5 WARP
After two solid years at Washington State, Flynn broke through as an elite college point guard after transferring to San Diego State. Size (he's 6-foot-1) could be an issue for Flynn in the NBA, but he's a capable shooter with good markers in terms of reading the game.
14. Cassius Winston
Michigan StatePGTop 100: No. 29Stats: No. 10
In recent years, veteran college point guards considered too small to be NBA starters have been a consistent source of draft value. Like Winston, Monte Morris (pick No. 51 in 2017) and Fred VanVleet (undrafted in 2016) weren't high picks despite top-10 stats-only projections. While it took them a couple of seasons to establish themselves, Morris is now a top-tier backup and VanVleet a valuable starter.
Winston's excellent shooting (43% career from 3, 85% on free throws) should translate well to the NBA.
15. Patrick Williams
Florida StateFTop 100: No. 9Stats: No. 32
Averaging a block and a steal per game in just 22.5 minutes off the bench was impressive for Williams. On the downside, weak defensive rebounding -- worse than that of his teammate Vassell -- might make it difficult for Williams to play as a small-ball 4 in the NBA.
16. James Wiseman
MemphisCTop 100: No. 3Stats: No. 70
Because Wiseman played in only three college games, his unimpressive statistical projection is based almost entirely on the 2017 EYBL. Playing for Team Penny, Wiseman was a dominant shot-blocker but not the kind of interior force you'd expect from one of the nation's top prospects. His steal rate (only five in 17 games) was also a concern.
Wiseman did dominate low-level competition in his first two games at Memphis and was productive, though not a difference-maker, in a loss to Oregon before being ruled ineligible.
17. Saddiq Bey
VillanovaSFTop 100: No. 17Stats: No. 21
Consensus: 1.4 WARP
Unusual for a statistically top-rated player, Bey didn't contribute much in terms of defensive stats, though he projects as a capable individual defender. Instead, his projection owes primarily to 42% 3-point shooting and mistake-free play on offense.
18. Jahmi'us Ramsey
Texas TechGTop 100: No. 35Stats: No. 11
As a freshman, Ramsey played a key role for the Red Raiders; his 26% usage rate ranked sixth among first-year players in the power conferences, per Sports-Reference.com, and of that group only Duke's Vernon Carey Jr. had a better true shooting percentage.
One concern is that Ramsey's 43% accuracy on 141 3-pointers might have been a fluke, as he shot just 64% from the line.
19. Trevelin Queen
New Mexico StateSFTop 100: No. 84Stats: No. 7
Consensus: 1.3 WARP
My top-ranked player not currently projected among the ESPN top 50, junior college product Queen earned some attention from scouts because of his defensive potential. Among players in my college projection database listed at 6-foot-6 or taller, only Michael Carter-Williams had a better projected steal rate than Queen, who is also an above-average shot-blocker for a wing.
Queen's 39% 3-point shooting on 5.3 attempts per game as a senior suggests 3-and-D potential.
20. Tyrese Maxey
KentuckySGTop 100: No. 14Stats: No. 28
Maxey's shot is also projectable based on the disconnect between his 29% 3-point shooting and 83% accuracy at the line. Becoming a perimeter threat will be key given Maxey didn't show particularly strong ability to create for others in his one season at Kentucky.
21. Theo Maledon
ASVELPGTop 100: No. 24Stats: No. 20
Consensus: 1.2 WARP
Like Hayes, Maledon played a key role for a high-level European team at a young age, though he looks a bit further away from contributing in the NBA. Maledon's playmaking numbers haven't been nearly as strong, and his 3-point shooting could suffer from the transition to the longer line.
22. Nico Mannion
ArizonaPGTop 100: No. 25Stats: No. 24
Consensus: 1.1 WARP
Mannion's freshman season was projectable. While he wasn't an efficient scorer at Arizona, Mannion could boost his efficiency by improving on 33% 3-point shooting, something his 80% accuracy at the free throw line suggests he has the potential to do.
23. Xavier Tillman
Michigan StatePFTop 100: No. 32Stats: No. 19
The most surprising result in this year's draft projections is that Tillman finishes as the second-rated post prospect, ahead of likely lottery picks Obi Toppin (0.7 projected WARP) and Precious Achiuwa (0.5) -- both of whom are outside the top 30. Age is a factor: Though Toppin has played only two college seasons to Tillman's three, as a redshirt sophomore Toppin is almost a year older, and one-and-done prospect Achiuwa is just eight months younger than Tillman.
Toppin is the far more skilled scorer and Achiuwa more versatile defensively, but Tillman lacks their weaknesses at either end of the court, making him a more complete prospect. Per Sports-Reference.com, he actually led all NCAA players in box plus-minus during 2019-20, with Toppin third and Achiuwa not cracking the top 200.
24. Kira Lewis Jr.
AlabamaPGTop 100: No. 16Stats: No. 37
Though he is a sophomore, Lewis is younger than most of the one-and-done prospects in this year's draft. He was more productive last season than Mannion and Maxey but doesn't benefit as much from the regression to the mean factor in my projections because he has two years of college data to their one.
25. Tyrell Terry
StanfordPGTop 100: No. 39Stats: No. 20
Relatively unheralded as a prospect entering the season, Terry put himself on the NBA's radar with impressive efficiency for a freshman point guard, knocking down 41% of his 3-point attempts and 89% of his free throws. He's still developing as a playmaker.
26. Josh Green
ArizonaSGTop 100: No. 21Stats: No. 29
Consensus: 1.0 WARP
Another one-and-done prospect with a similar combo of stats and ranking as Mannion, Green, who is from Australia, must improve on 45% 2-point shooting as a freshman, though he posted encouraging defensive numbers.
27. Tre Jones
DukePGTop 100: No. 30Stats: No. 26
Returning for his sophomore season allowed Jones to improve his 3-point shooting from 26% as a freshman to 36%. The adjustment to the longer line could be an issue, but Jones' form doesn't appear broken, as he has made 77% of his career free throws.
28. Desmond Bane
TCUSGTop 100: No. 34Stats: No. 25
Consensus: 0.9 WARP
Atypically young for a four-year prospect -- he'll turn 22 later this week -- Bane is an excellent shooter who converted 43% of his career 3-point attempts and showed solid playmaking chops for a player of his ilk.
29. Nate Hinton
HoustonSGTop 100: No. 56Stats: No. 17
The lone newcomer to my top 30 from June, Hinton replaces Gonzaga guard Joel Ayayi, who opted to return to college. Statistically, Hinton's strength is his rebounding from the perimeter. As a 6-foot-5 shooting guard, he posted the best rebound percentage on his team. His steal rate was also strong, but Hinton must continue the improvement he showed as a shooter during his sophomore season (making 39% of his 3-point attempts, up from 34% as a freshman) to stay on the court.
30. Markus Howard
MarquettePGTop 100: No. 60Stats: No. 14
Because of his small stature (he's listed at 5-foot-11) and shoot-first style, Howard is the rare early developing star who stayed four years in college. He did improve his playmaking as an upperclassmen, but if he's going to stick in the NBA it probably will be as a Patty Mills-style combo guard, having hit 43% of his career 3-point attempts.
― Spottie, Thursday, 12 November 2020 22:41 (three years ago) link
I could cheer for a guy named Isaiah Joe
― Heez, Friday, 13 November 2020 00:01 (three years ago) link
@thl3t1c is $12 for a year for the next few hours fwiw
The best journalists in sports all in one place.A new subscription to all The Athletic has to offer is just $1/month: https://t.co/Wya4OWKBCAWant in? Here are some of our staff members’ favorite stories.👇👇👇— The Athletic (@TheAthletic) November 28, 2020
― mookieproof, Monday, 30 November 2020 23:29 (three years ago) link
thanks, that's the right price
― the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 01:07 (three years ago) link
that's definitely better than the intro price i got in january. people trying to sell email newsletters lately has made the athletic (and, like, actual magazines) feel cheap to me.
― circles, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 03:55 (three years ago) link
i signed for the atheltic a bit ago, and im pretty impressed with how much shit they can publish thats actually interesting
― discourse stu (m bison), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 04:38 (three years ago) link
thanks for the heads up, mookie. I am now an Athletic subscriber for the first time. Already appreciating Jared Weiss' explanation of the Gordon Hayward sign n' trade
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 05:14 (three years ago) link
10. Nikola Jokic
play0:17Jokic hook shot sends Nuggets to next roundNikola Jokic hits a clutch turn-around hook shot on Rudy Gobert to lift the Nuggets to the Game 7 win vs. the JazzDenver Nuggets | C
Previous rank: 7
2020-21 projected RPM: 4.3*
A sluggish start to the season was a distant memory when Jokic showed up trim for the seeding games and helped lead the Nuggets to their first conference finals since 2009. Along the way, Jokic showed how he helps his team in multiple ways. Against the Utah Jazz, who wanted to make him a scorer, Jokic averaged 26.3 points. That was down to 24.4 against the LA Clippers, but Jokic dominated the glass (13.4 rebounds) and averaged 6.6 assists. Though foul trouble limited Jokic against the eventual champion Lakers, he still made 58% of his 2-point attempts in an efficient series.
*Real plus-minus (RPM) is a player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions.
More: What sets Nikola Jokic apart from other superstars
9. James Harden
Jesse D. Garrabrant/NBAE via Getty ImagesHouston Rockets | SG
Previous rank: 4
2020-21 projected RPM: 6.8
Harden tumbled five spots in the rankings after back-to-back top-four finishes, and it's tough to say how much that reflects his uncertain future in Houston after a short training-camp holdout and a trade request. During the regular season, there's no doubt Harden has been far more valuable than ninth in the league, finishing in the top three in MVP voting five of the past six seasons. Clearly, our panel put more weight on Harden's uneven postseason performances. Still, the Rockets will rightly expect a prime package of players and picks if and when they trade Harden.
More: Teams that can make real offers for Harden
8. Stephen Curry
Ezra Shaw/Getty ImagesGolden State Warriors | PG
Previous rank: 6
2020-21 projected RPM: 6.0
This is the lowest Curry has ranked since breaking out as a star in the 2013 postseason. The issue is availability, as a broken bone in Curry's right hand limited him to five games last season and he missed a combined 44 games the previous two campaigns. If he can stay healthy, we'll find out the floor for a Curry-led offense lacking a second plus scorer after Klay Thompson's Achilles injury ended his season before it began. Without Thompson and Kevin Durant, the Warriors will be more dependent on Curry for shot creation than ever before.
More: Curry relishes opportunity to start "at ground zero again"
7. Damian Lillard
play2:43Lillard goes off for 61 points vs. MavsIn his second straight game scoring more than 50 points, Damian Lillard racks up 61 points and eight assists as he leads the Trail Blazers to a 134-131 victory in a wild game against the Mavericks.Portland Trail Blazers | PG
Previous rank: 9
2020-21 projected RPM: 3.4
Lillard's scoring prowess salvaged what looked like a season lost to injuries for the Blazers. He put together one of the great stretches in NBA history in late January into February, averaging 48.8 points and 8.2 3-pointers per game on 57% shooting as Portland knocked off four playoff teams. Lillard was nearly as good in the bubble, winning Player of the Seeding Games for his 37.6 points and 9.6 assists as the Blazers claimed the eighth seed. With a healthier roster fortified this offseason, Portland hopes not to rely so heavily on Lillard again in 2020-21, but he has proved capable of carrying the load.
More: Lillard named NBA bubble MVP
6. Kevin Durant
Nicole Sweet-USA TODAY SportsBrooklyn Nets | PF
Previous rank: NR (injured)
2020-21 projected RPM: 2.4
Just how good Durant is 18 months after suffering an Achilles rupture during his final game with the Warriors is one of this season's swing questions. Players coming off the same injury have been noticeably less effective than projected upon their return, and KD was already likely to experience some decline in his early 30s. At the same time, when last we saw Durant fully healthy in the first two rounds of the 2019 playoffs, he was making a case as the league's most dominant individual force, and reports from players who have played with him during rehab have been encouraging.
More: Durant "ready for anything" in Nets' new smallball lineups
5. Kawhi Leonard
play0:23One-finger block! Kawhi comes up with clutch denial on Murray's dunk attemptJamal Murray attacks the basket, but Kawhi Leonard rises to the occasion to stuff the dunk using his middle finger.LA Clippers | SF
Previous rank: 2
2020-21 projected RPM: 4.1
Leonard's first season in Los Angeles (and the Orlando bubble) didn't have the same kind of storybook ending as 2019 in Toronto. The Clippers, trendy picks to win the title, were shocked in the second round after holding a 3-1 series lead on the Nuggets. Leonard was complicit, as he shot 6-of-22 in the deciding Game 7. Still, Leonard is primed to outperform his No. 5 ranking. He finished fifth in MVP voting despite his load -- whoops, injury -- management and finished second on a per-game basis in my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric in the playoffs.
More: Leonard ready to "get back after it" following playoff loss
4. Luka Doncic
play0:47Doncic nails game winner as time expires in overtimeLuka Doncic drills a fadeaway 3-pointer as time expires to win the game for the Mavericks and tie the series vs. the Clippers 2-2.Dallas Mavericks | PG
Previous rank: 16
The next great superstar served notice to the league in his second season, becoming the youngest player ever to earn All-NBA First Team honors based on age as of opening night. Doncic impressed in his playoff debut versus the LA Clippers, knocking down a 28-foot, step-back winner in overtime and averaging 31.0 points, 9.8 rebounds and 8.7 assists in the six-game series. Next for Doncic: Leading the Mavs to a series win for the first time since their 2011 championship. Based on what we've seen from Doncic, that's a matter of when, not if.
More: How Luka compares to the all-time NBA greats
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo
play2:18Giannis' rise is a product of David Stern's global NBA visionOn this special episode of The Woj Pod, Adrian Wojnarowski talks about Giannis Antetokounmpo's rise to NBA superstardom.Milwaukee Bucks | PF
Previous rank: 1
2020-21 projected RPM: 7.5
There's a reason much of the league spent this offseason hoarding cap space in preparation for Giannis' possible unrestricted free agency next summer. He has nothing left to prove in the regular season after winning back-to-back MVPs and Defensive Player of the Year before age 26, all while leading the Bucks to the NBA's best record in both seasons. Yet Giannis wasn't having the same impact against the Miami Heat in the playoffs before an ankle reinjury ended his series prematurely. To return to No. 1, Antetokounmpo must improve his scoring against defenses designed to keep him out of the paint.
Listen: "The Giannis Draft" on the Woj Pod
2. Anthony Davis
play2:34The best of Anthony Davis' title run in the playoff bubbleTake a look back at the best highlights from Anthony Davis' title run with the Lakers in the bubble.Los Angeles Lakers | PF
Previous rank: 5
2020-21 projected RPM: 4.0
For the first time in the 10-year history of NBArank, teammates finished 1-2. It's a testament to how well AD played in the Lakers' championship run that he created debate about who should win Finals MVP. It was Davis who hit the biggest shot of the playoffs, a 3-pointer to win Game 2 of the Western Conference finals. And the Lakers played better with Davis alone on the court in the postseason (plus-5.0 points per 100 possessions, via NBA Advanced Stats) than with LeBron James alone (plus-0.5) -- a reversal from the regular season.
More: What it took for Anthony Davis to get to this moment
1. LeBron James
play2:18LeBron's most memorable playoff bubble momentsCheck out the best moments from LeBron James' championship run with the Lakers in the bubble.Los Angeles Lakers | SF
Previous rank: 3
2020-21 projected RPM: 6.1
To quote "The Wire," "The King stay the King." After controversially relinquishing the No. 1 spot to Giannis in the wake of his injury-marred first season in Los Angeles, LeBron reclaimed the NBArank throne he has held nine of the past 10 years by winning his fourth title and Finals MVP at age 35. James continues to evolve, leading the league in assists while ceding some scoring to Davis. With the short turnaround before opening night, it's unlikely James will match last season's 67 (of 71) games played. Come playoff time, however, there's still nobody you'd rather start your team with than LeBron.
― Spottie, Thursday, 10 December 2020 22:56 (three years ago) link
ty :)
― k3vin k., Thursday, 10 December 2020 23:24 (three years ago) link
I'd quibble with placing Doncic ahead of Lillard, Curry and Harden. That seems based as much on promise as delivery. He's clearly top ten, tho.
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Thursday, 10 December 2020 23:58 (three years ago) link
yah lillard ahead of curry is smh
― Spottie, Friday, 11 December 2020 00:05 (three years ago) link
doncic was top 5 last year, he'll probably be the best player in the league this year. hard to argue with any of the enties in the top 8 really, exact position aside
― k3vin k., Friday, 11 December 2020 02:04 (three years ago) link
sorry forgot the rankings lol, harden clearly better player than lillard imo, put him in the top 8 and lillard/jokic rounding out the top 10 seems right
― k3vin k., Friday, 11 December 2020 02:05 (three years ago) link
not sure about ad being #2, the +/- stats noted above are janky and hes a permanent second option
― micah, Sunday, 13 December 2020 09:02 (three years ago) link
yeah its recency bias+championship glow+LA bias
― discourse stu (m bison), Sunday, 13 December 2020 15:33 (three years ago) link
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30453357/nba-five-most-intriguing-players-2020-21-including-kevin-durant
*praying hands emoji*
I get more mad every day about espn putting lowe behind a paywall in the middle of a pandemic
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 16 December 2020 14:46 (three years ago) link
i let mine lapse dont want to pay the mouse
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 16 December 2020 16:14 (three years ago) link
theres a ton of video clips in here so the formatting will probably be whack
It's time for one NBA preseason tradition: My six most intriguing players of the season, only there are five here. Blame the supercompressed offseason. As always, we steer away from rookies and sophomores.
Lauri Markkanen and Wendell Carter Jr., Chicago Bulls
Carter and Markkanen felt a connection the first time they took the court together in practice. They linked up on high-lows, and they had an innate sense in screening actions for who should roll and who should pop.
It translated to games right away:
Markkanen's gravity as a pick-and-pop threat unlocked rim runs for Carter.
They reversed rolls, with Markkanen slipping to the rim -- and Carter feeding him:
They looked like a foundational frontcourt for the modern NBA. With Kris Dunn gone, they are now two of three players remaining from the Jimmy Butler trade return -- Markkanen directly, Carter via the high pick the rebuilding Bulls got the following season.
"We clicked before we put in plays or anything," Carter told ESPN. "And then I hit the rookie wall, and we kept getting injured. So there were just glimpses. It was hard to keep the chemistry going."
Carter went out for that 2018-19 season six weeks after Markkanen's return from an early-season injury. He missed 22 games last season; Markkanen missed 15. They have played only about 1,300 minutes together.
Lowe's Redeem Team: Six NBA players ready to bounce back this season
Lowe: The Clippers absolutely need peak Paul George
Predictions: Eight biggest NBA questions, including MVP and the future for LeBron and HardenLast season was a disappointment for both. One exception: Carter's defense, which has to be really good to cover for Markkanen and Chicago's perimeter leakage.
Carter is fast and mobile, with a knack for verticality and a hellacious second jump in rebounding scrums. (Markkanen is tall for power forward, and he put up solid rebounding numbers in his first two seasons. Chicago protected the glass at a top-10 level with Markkanen and Carter on the floor.)
Carter did not look out of his depth trapping pick-and-rolls in the idiosyncratic, ultra-aggressive scheme favored by now-former Bulls coach Jim Boylen.
Billy Donovan, Boylen's replacement, said the Bulls will toggle schemes but skew more conservative. Carter is excited to see what he can do as a rim protector setting up shop below the foul line.
"It's going to make me even better," he said.
Carter was already Chicago's best defender. Get him engaged on offense and he could be Chicago's best player.
Carter carries a reputation as a capable midrange shooter, but he went gun-shy as Boylen discouraged midrangers. Carter barely looked at the rim. Opponents stopped guarding him.
For better or worse, that's over. Carter went 1-of-9 from deep in two preseason games. He took 29 3s last season.
"Trust and believe, you are gonna see jump-shooting Wendell," Carter said. "My confidence is through the roof."
And 3-point shooting Wendell? "For sure. You'll see him too," Carter said.
Last season, Carter served mostly as a screen-and-dive option. He can dart behind slower defenders, cram lobs, and toss passes on the move.
That setup -- plus Boylen's aversion to long 2s -- marginalized Markkanen into a role as standstill floor-spacer. Markkanen hopes Donovan resurrects sets in which he works in tandem with Carter.
"When you are involved, that's a good feeling," Markkanen told ESPN. "It's important for us to mix it up."
Good NBA defenses demand variety.
"We have to explore all those things," Donovan said.
During Markkanen's best stretch -- February 2019, when he averaged 26 points on 49% shooting -- Boylen made Markkanen the centerpiece of unpredictable screening actions similar to ones the Cleveland Cavaliers and Minnesota Timberwolves have used for Kevin Love.
Markkanen played with ferocity, pumping-and-driving and hunting dunks:
He flew off pindowns from Carter, and ran some big-big pick-and-rolls with him -- daring lumbering centers to switch onto him.
That February 2019 Markkanen was confident and (briefly) healthy. A left ankle injury hobbled him much of last season; Markkanen played with a brace, and could not push off his left leg with power, he said. He couldn't get past slow centers off the dribble.
Now healthy, it is on Markkanen to prove he deserves more touches. It starts with living up to his billing as a shooter. He has hit 35.6% on 3s -- average. He does not inspire enough frantic closeouts or extra rotations that leave the defense naked elsewhere.
He has been almost unbelievably bad from midrange: 30% last season, never above 39% on long 2s. Among 260 players who attempted at least 300 shots last season, only 28 underperformed their expected effective field-goal percentage -- based on the location of each shot and the nearest defender -- by a larger margin than Markkanen, per Second Spectrum data.
Markkanen can beat defenders off the bounce only if they fear his jumper enough to press him. If they give any cushion, he dribbles into walls.
He has not been able to exploit guards on switches, a must for any screen-setter with his skill set. The Bulls have scored less than 0.85 points per possession in each of the past two seasons when Markkanen shoots out of the post or dishes to a teammate who fires -- bottom-25 numbers leaguewide, per Second Spectrum.
Markkanen sometimes struggles to shove guards backward. His dribble can get high and loose -- prey for swiping defenders:
Carter's presence mucks up the lane, at times. On most switches last season, Markkanen slunk toward the corner.
What makes all this so frustrating is that Markkanen has shown flashes of a mean streak:
He is willing to initiate contact, but not forceful enough to finish through it yet.
He should have the chops to shoot over smaller guards, which would in turn force them to pressure him -- and open up his off-the-dribble game.
Practicing full-contact post-ups was difficult amid a pandemic, but Markkanen spent the offseason honing footwork and ballhandling. "With someone like Dirk [Nowitzki], you couldn't switch on him because he'd punish you," Markkenen said. "That's the goal."
Markkanen worked afternoons with a private skills trainer in a gym so small Markkanen did not have room to shoot corner 3s.
They drilled basic ballhandling, including with two balls. The trainer would toss the ball off the backboard, and have Markkanen rebound and push it up the floor on a one-man fast break.
2020-21 NBA season preview
The new season is fast approaching. Keep it here for all the latest rankings, projections and storylines to watch ahead of 2020-21.
• NBA Power Rankings, training camp edition• What this drastic rest disparity means• Games to watch | Must-see Christmas battles• How will this NBA season actually work?• Win projections for all 30 teams• Every team's biggest camp questionHovering over everything is Chicago's lack of guard playmaking. Like most bigs, Markkanen and Carter need to catch the ball with some small advantage. They rely on guards to provide it by puncturing the defense, and kicking to them on target and on time.
Chicago's lead ball handlers are scattershot, and the Bulls did not address the issue in the draft or free agency. Zach LaVine is a scorer first. So is Coby White, who appears to have snatched the starting point guard job. Opponents duck picks against Tomas Satoransky, allowing defenders to stay home on Markkanen and Carter.
Chemistry on the pick-and-roll has come slowly. Chicago's guards sometimes look off mismatches in the post to chase their own.
"It has been a work in progress getting on the same page with the guards," Markkanen said.
On defense, Markkanen needs more reps chasing stretch power forwards. (Carter might be better at that, but the Bulls want him around the basket.) If Markkanen straggles, he might not have a consistent position on defense -- a problem for him given the Bulls just drafted Patrick Williams, who projects as at least a part-time power forward.
The Bulls have played Markkanen at center, but it's unclear if those alignments can survive on defense. That setup did not work with Thaddeus Young at power forward; smart teams stuck their centers on Young and kept faster power forwards on Markkanen, vaporizing the speed advantage that is the entire point of slotting him at center.
The Bulls will revisit that lineup with Otto Porter Jr. at power forward, Donovan said. "It could be a come-from-behind lineup," the coach indicated.
At this point, Carter and Markkanen are just eager to play together again. And they want to win, to point the Bulls somewhere after half a decade of aimlessness. They have always been team-first guys, even in moments of internal drama. During Boylen's first speech as coach in December 2018, Carter stood and told Boylen -- and by extension, the team -- "Whatever you need, coach, I'll do it," multiple witnesses recalled.
If Markkanen and Carter click, the Bulls have some direction. If they don't, they could wander the wilderness.
"It's a big, big year for us," Markkanen said.
Marvin Bagley III, Sacramento Kings
Bagley knows he will always be tied to Luka Doncic.
"You see it, you hear it, but I pay it no mind," Bagley said. "I'm not here to please anyone outside the team. I'm here to help the team win. I'm here to help this organization get to places it has never been."
The Kings have one cornerstone in De'Aaron Fox, whose presence as lead ball handler contributed to the decision to pick Bagley over Doncic, Vlade Divac, the Kings' former general manager, told ESPN last year. Whether Fox becomes an occasional All-Star or perennial All-NBA candidate will be one determining factor in how far these Kings go.
Bagley is the other. He is still something of a mystery after playing just 13 games last season due to a foot injury.
He was slated as a starter before contracting the coronavirus prior to camp, Luke Walton, the team's coach, told ESPN. Walton would not say whether Bagley would have started at center or power forward. (He started Sacramento's preseason game Tuesday next to Richaun Holmes.)
The hope is that Bagley can play either position depending on matchups and health.
"For now, it's kind of, 'Who cares. Let's get him on the court,'" Walton said.
Bagley has proved he can inflict damage as the center of a spread pick-and-roll attack, with Fox and three shooters around him. Bagley is fast and bouncy, with a nasty streak. He seems to relish dislodging defenders with forearms to the gut, and then dunking them into oblivion:
Bagley can face up and roast centers in open space, and doesn't need a right hand to do it:
He is a terror on the offensive glass. He tosses rivals aside with swim moves like a defensive lineman. He can jump twice in the same time it takes some centers to get up and down once.
The next steps are spraying passes on the move and abusing switches; Bagley has been unsteady in the post, prone to traveling violations.
The larger challenge at center comes in anchoring the defense. Bagley is agile enough to switch onto most guards, but that leaves the Kings vulnerable to mismatches and small around the glass. Drop him back and Bagley becomes responsible for making more reads and quarterbacking the defense.
Walton intends to use both schemes. "We'll keep him back in coverage, but to me, that's more challenging for him than switching," Walton said.
Walton is confident Bagley can defend power forwards of all stripes, and he will have him switch even more at that position. Bagley struggled as a rookie chasing stretchier 4s around the arc, but he hasn't had much game time to adapt.
His role on offense at that position is murkier. Holmes and Hassan Whiteside are paint-bound dive guys. Sacramento tried to have the best of both worlds last season by signing Dewayne Dedmon as a center who could shoot 3s, clearing the lane for Bagley, but the experiment went bust.
Defenses are not worried about Bagley spotting up as a power forward. He is 34-of-118 (28.8%) on 3s. Opponents ignore him. He can fade out of plays:
The Kings are optimistic Bagley's jumper will come with time. He has shot well on long 2s, and went 25-of-31 at the line last season.
Bagley has ambitions on offense beyond rim running and spot shooting. "I feel like I can do more," he said, "but I'll do whatever the team needs."
During his pre-draft workout with the Kings, Dave Joerger, their former coach, tested Bagley's ballhandling by having him dribble up and down the court -- sometimes with two balls -- and execute moves at full speed when Joerger called them out: Through the legs! Crossover!
"It was the weirdest workout I've been a part of, but it was fun," Bagley said. Divac talked about Bagley playing small forward.
Walton will let Bagley stretch himself -- eventually.
"You have to do other things first to help the team," Walton said. "Then we can look at expanding some of the other stuff."
Bagley is going to score a lot. He might sniff 20 points per game this season if he stays healthy and gets enough minutes. He is a prodigious talent. Honing the other parts of his game is the only way he can take Sacramento to new places, and render Doncic a minor part of his story.
Nathaniel S. Butler/NBAE via Getty ImagesKevin Durant, Brooklyn Nets
The league didn't lose a normal superstar when Durant ruptured his Achilles tendon during the 2019 NBA Finals.
Durant is a historic giant. He was just 30 years old during those Finals, and had already amassed almost 23,000 regular-season points (31st in NBA history). He was one basket away from tying Tony Parker for 10th in postseason points. With good health, Durant appeared likely to pass Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant on the all-time scoring list -- leaving him at No. 4, behind only Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Karl Malone, and LeBron James. With pristine health and unusual longevity -- not an unreasonable expectation for a 7-foot sniper -- Durant might have challenged Abdul-Jabbar's record.
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Thursday, Dec. 17 • Nets at Celtics, 8 p.m. on ESPN
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All Times EasternBy the end of this season, he could become the seventh player to compile 22,000 points, 6,500 rebounds, 3,000 assists, and 1,000 each of steals and blocks. (The other six, per Basketball-Reference: Abdul-Jabbar, Malone, Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and Hakeem Olajuwon.)
Unlike five of those six, Durant is an annual threat to crack the 50-40-90 shooting club. He made it once, and barely missed several times. (His career shooting line: 49-38-88, which is just ridiculous.)
He was on track to finish as one of the 10 greatest players ever, with a possibility of breaching even loftier territory.
If Durant is back and the Nets avoid chemistry landmines, they can contend for the title. Durant is that powerful a two-way force.
The Nets have not found that third star to flank Kyrie Irving and Durant, but the upside is the sort of depth that should be unusually valuable during a perilous season. Lineups with Durant at center -- a look coach Steve Nash has vowed to use -- will test that depth and Brooklyn's culture.
Joe Harris should be a regular third wheel alongside Brooklyn's two stars. He is a solid, multipositional defender, and one of the best shooters alive. There are at least seven reasonable candidates for two remaining Durant-at-center spots: Spencer Dinwiddie, Caris LeVert, Landry Shamet, Taurean Prince, Jeff Green, Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, and Bruce Brown.
Dinwiddie and LeVert are the best pure talents, but the group featuring both would be small and might bleed points and offensive rebounds. (Defense will make or break the Nets as a real contender.)
Irving, Dinwiddie, and LeVert played only 67 minutes together last season, and Nash has talked of LeVert accepting a Manu Ginobili-like sixth man role.
Brooklyn could go bigger with both Prince and Green -- the latter coming off an encouraging stint in precisely this role with the Houston Rockets -- but that might alienate two crafty ball handlers in LeVert and Dinwiddie hungering for larger roles.
Brown looms as a potential wild card, if his 41% mark on corner 3s last season sustains -- and his hideous 26% hit rate on above-the-break 3s improves. Luwawu-Cabarrot jacked from deep with bravado last season.
DeAndre Jordan and Jarrett Allen might do so well rampaging through open space for dunks and barricading the rim that Nash won't need the small-ball card much.
We're up to 12 rotation guys, and have not mentioned Nicolas Claxton, Rodions Kurucs, Tyler Johnson, or Reggie Perry -- the 57th pick in the draft who has drawn positive reviews, and a likely candidate for a two-way spot.
These guys are super deep. Depth is handy, but star power wins on the biggest stages. Peak Durant would tie everything together.
Zach Collins, Portland Trail Blazers
We've seen it before: Intriguing young guy on win-now team suffers injury after injury, and inexorably falls out of the team's planning. It might not be something anyone says out loud. There might be no loss of trust or affection. There is just a general, almost tangible sense of, We can't wait anymore.
It is a testament to Collins' work ethic, likability, and potential that the same plotline has not befallen him after he lost last season to shoulder surgery and then ankle surgery. Other teams have called, assuming Collins is Portland's main trade chip. Portland's veterans are fine waiting longer -- waiting to see if Collins becomes the rare 7-footer who shoots 3s and protects the rim.
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The Blazers have to wait about a month for Collins' return. In the meantime, Portland acquired or re-signed five players capable of taking his minutes at power forward (Robert Covington, Derrick Jones Jr., Carmelo Anthony) or center (Enes Kanter, Harry Giles III). There is a scenario in which those guys thrive, Collins' struggles early, and the season -- Collins' pivotal fourth campaign, sending him into restricted free agency, barring an extension before Monday -- slips away.
The happy flip side: Collins roars upon returning, reclaims the starting power forward spot next to Jusuf Nurkic, and snags a chunk of minutes as a stretch center. Collins played well in both roles in the 2019 Western Conference semifinals against the Denver Nuggets, a seven-game slugfest that served as his coming-out party.
"In the biggest moments, I showed up," Collins told ESPN. "That was huge for my confidence."
That version of Collins raises the present team's ceiling and changes Portland's broader trajectory. A Covington-Collins-Nurkic frontcourt could stabilize Portland's leaky defense, allowing them to play ultra-big without sacrificing skill.
That hinges on Collins doing enough damage from the perimeter on offense. At power forward, he has to spot up around Nurkic pick-and-rolls. Collins is a career 32% shooter from deep on low volume. He has been bricky from the corners. Instead of standing in those corners, Collins sometimes lingers in the dead zone along the baseline -- short of 3-point range, but too far away to catch and dunk.
"He has to be one or the other -- a corner 3-point shooter, or one power dribble from the rim," Stotts said.
Collins believes he can be a 40% 3-point shooter. If he fails, it will not be for a lack of practice. Collins' father, Mike, coached him from a young age, and instilled an intense competitive drive. On visits to Portland's practice facility, he assured Blazers coaches Collins would keep improving, telling them, "I raised a monster" and "I raised a machine," according to Collins and others.
If Collins performs below expectations in shooting drills, he often insists on starting again -- over objections of coaches tasked with monitoring his workload.
The job description of Portland's power forwards goes beyond shooting. They have to make quick drive and pass decisions when Damian Lillard and CJ McCollum kick them the ball. Collins has shown flashes -- an explosive pump-and-go, an occasional floater -- but only flashes. He prefers the more predictable job description of Portland's centers: screen, roll, make plays in the paint.
"I like [center] a little more," Collins said. "You're involved more. It's more clear-cut."
Collins has a nascent post-up game against switches, and has been productive taking guards to the block, per Second Spectrum.
He should be able to defend both power forwards and centers, though true-blue wings sliding to power forward might give him issues -- as they do most bigs. Collins has quick feet and a churning motor. Stotts in the Florida bubble trusted Collins to switch onto Ja Morant, LeVert, and other quick scoring guards. Collins held his own, though he can bite on pump fakes and get handsy when he is worried a guard might scoot by him; Collins fouls a lot.
"I've watched a lot of film on that with our coaches," he said. "They have given me ways to get around it, so that if I touch someone, it's not as obvious."
Switching can take him away from the basket, where Collins has emerged as a fearsome -- if foul-prone -- deterrent. He blocked 15 shots in just 145 minutes in that Denver series, and he has held opposing shooters to a low field goal percentage around the basket, per NBA.com.
Collins might be able to leverage that skill more often at center. He has bulked up enough so that brutes can't bully him as easily. Still: There is a hard ceiling on available center minutes as long as Nurkic -- just 26, and extension-eligible -- remains in Portland.
But the actualized version of Collins is flexible enough to help Portland at multiple positions. If the Blazers get that guy this season, they will be a problem.
― Spottie, Wednesday, 16 December 2020 16:21 (three years ago) link
ty!
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 16 December 2020 17:51 (three years ago) link
Bagley said. "I'm not here to please anyone outside the team. I'm here to help the team win. I'm here to help this organization get to places it has never been."
The Kings have been an NBA team since 1945 (as the Rochester Royals) and won an NBA championship that year, so Marvin has a pretty high opinion of himself.
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 19:27 (three years ago) link
pretty please :)
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30523584/eight-nba-tiers-rating-all-30-teams-top-bottom
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 23 December 2020 13:05 (three years ago) link
Seconded. Dear god this thread gonna get busy with the mouse putting every writer worth a damn behind the paywall.
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Wednesday, 23 December 2020 16:54 (three years ago) link
try https://www.espn.com.au/espn/story/_/id/30573008/eight-nba-tiers-rating-all-30-teams-top-bottom
― micah, Wednesday, 23 December 2020 20:30 (three years ago) link
cheers mate
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 23 December 2020 20:32 (three years ago) link
lol. can you just do that with every article??
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 23 December 2020 21:08 (three years ago) link
lol! thanks
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Wednesday, 23 December 2020 21:25 (three years ago) link
lol incredible
― trans-panda express (m bison), Wednesday, 23 December 2020 21:33 (three years ago) link
that rules thx micah!
― Clay, Wednesday, 23 December 2020 21:42 (three years ago) link
idk if it always works, normally i just read whats posted here
i thought lowes piece was ass btw - its a very difficult season to predict but i still think he did it poorly
― micah, Wednesday, 23 December 2020 23:05 (three years ago) link
really? his tiers basically made sense to me.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 23 December 2020 23:08 (three years ago) link
plz sir just a crumb of content https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30626423/nba-teams-going-need-james-harden-trade-soon
― lag∞n, Sunday, 3 January 2021 18:17 (three years ago) link
1) boston celtics
― k3vin k., Sunday, 3 January 2021 18:56 (three years ago) link
rude
― lag∞n, Sunday, 3 January 2021 18:57 (three years ago) link
soooo you can read all espn insider stories via espn.com.au if you use a vpn pointed at australia
― lag∞n, Friday, 22 January 2021 15:50 (three years ago) link
i have a vpn but u cld prob use a free proxy website too
― lag∞n, Friday, 22 January 2021 15:57 (three years ago) link
Behind the scenes of the failed Lloyd Pierce era, and why the Hawks were eager for a new voice
The Athletic NBA Staff 2h ago 18 — Reported via Chris Kirschner, Sam Amick and David Aldridge
Seven months after the pandemic had brought the Atlanta Hawks’ season to an unwelcome end, it was time for a Southern California reunion to bring them all back together again.
Coach Lloyd Pierce and all the Hawks returnees would meet for team-bonding time, with all sorts of activities planned that he hoped would aid their chemistry heading into a season they all knew would be pressure-packed. There was pick-up basketball against other NBA players, a boxing class where they squared off against one another and group dinners where topics included, among other things, the upcoming election.
But the real headliner event took place when Pierce and Trae Young met privately to discuss their upcoming third year together. At that point, anyone and everyone around the Hawks organization was well aware the relationship between these two key figures was strained.
If the Hawks were going to make the playoffs this season and contend, if they were going to avoid delays to accomplishing their shared goals, they would have to make this pairing work. Sources say they ended the trip on good terms and had a better understanding of how they each could make this work for the long term.
But in the end — after old tensions between Pierce and Young resurfaced, other players grew frustrated with Pierce’s style and owner Tony Ressler’s desperate desire to make the playoffs added so much pressure to the situation — it was not to be. Those plans Pierce and Young had hatched in Southern California officially fell short Monday when the underperforming Hawks (14-20) announced that Pierce had been relieved of his duties.
Hawks president Travis Schlenk, who had worked with Pierce a decade before while they were with the Golden State Warriors, made it clear in the team’s statement that the move was made with the hopes of righting their ship.
“We have high expectations for our team on the court and we believe by making this change now that we can have a strong second half of the season,” Schlenk said.
The 44-year-old coach, who was in the last guaranteed year of his contract and who had spoken so openly just last week in an interview with The Athletic about the likelihood that he would be let go, will be replaced by an interim coach in Nate McMillan who had been serving as Pierce’s lead assistant. And the primary reason for it all, sources say, is that several players — from Young on down — were eager to hear a new voice.
As this season progressed, the goodwill that Pierce and Young had re-established would dissipate, and the friction between them would return. It became apparent that Young and Pierce were not going to be a match that was sustainable for long-term success.
But Young was hardly alone here. Sources say player support beyond Young was dwindling at the end, with several sharing their desire for a change with management recently. Still, the difficult dynamic between Young and Pierce was an undeniable factor in Pierce’s downfall and a tone-setter of sorts for the group at large.
(Jared C. Tilton / Getty Images)Pierce took the tough love approach with Young from Day 1, opting to push him hard as a way of maximizing his celebrated talent. But Young, who had inspired so much hype during his time coming up in (and at) Oklahoma, often pushed back against Pierce’s style. John Collins could relate.
Pierce made a public comment two seasons ago about not running plays for Collins, and it rubbed the Hawks big man the wrong way. Collins went to Pierce about his issue with the statement, but Pierce, sources say, turned around and called Collins’ approach selfish in wanting to have a more defined role on the team. Over time, the residue from these types of situations remained.
Cam Reddish was among those, sources said, who also had an issue with Pierce’s coaching. Sources said Reddish felt like he was being “picked on” behind the scenes when it came to mistakes the second-year player made. There are a few players on the Hawks’ roster who feel like Reddish’s potential is higher than anyone on the roster but that Pierce’s input was stunting his development.
The hope is Reddish, taken 10th overall by Atlanta in 2019, can soar with a new voice. At the least, though, there will be no more excuses for him to improve after his clashes with Pierce. It also couldn’t have helped that two of the players known to be disenfranchised with Pierce — Young and Reddish — were the ones acquired when Atlanta made the controversial trade with Dallas in exchange for Luka Doncic in June 2018.
The lack of trust in Pierce, from numerous players, started in his first season. For The Athletic’s anonymous NBA player poll in April 2019, when one Hawks player was asked which coach in the NBA would you not want to play for, he responded with, “Are we allowed to say the one we play for?”
The lack of faith in Pierce from the players quickly eroded last year, with several on the team feeling like they could not approach him without leaving the conversation feeling like they weren’t being heard. Because of that, players would turn to assistant coach Chris Jent in the hopes that he could be the one to relay any comments or concerns to Pierce on their behalf.
There wasn’t a specific event that led to Pierce losing the locker room but rather a collection of small moments that built up since his first season in Atlanta and finally combusted in the team’s first season with expectations under him.
“There’s no telling when he lost it,” one source close to the team said. “He didn’t have support from many people. It came down to him not being able to manage egos. That’s what did him in, especially these young guys. It’s tough.”
Interestingly, away from the team, Pierce’s comments about Young’s game raised eyebrows around the league.
During a league office Competition Committee call on Dec. 30, Pierce was among a couple of members who spoke out about the way certain players are able to draw fouls and, at times, bait officials into making foul calls. Multiple sources said he spoke about how he “hates” the shots Young takes at times and the fouls he’s able to draw on them. It was perceived as an interesting comment for several people on the call because Pierce’s star player has seemingly taken advantage of drawing fouls and getting to the foul line. But it was made in the broader picture of how players are drawing fouls by manipulating their bodies.
As far as on-court decisions go, players routinely criticized Pierce’s in-game management strategy over the past three seasons. One of the most notable moments of last season came in a December 2019 game in Miami. The Hawks led by six in the final minute when Pierce substituted Young out for DeAndre’ Bembry for defensive purposes. After Miami cut Atlanta’s lead down to three, Pierce failed to call a timeout to reinsert Young on offense. Bembry ended up getting his shot blocked, the Heat tied the game and it eventually went into overtime where the Hawks lost.
Just a few weeks after that Miami game, in Cleveland, Young was frustrated once again with a decision Pierce made in a late-game situation. Pierce had Young inbound the ball with the hope that he’d get it right back to put up a clean shot attempt at the end of the game. Instead, the Cavaliers denied him a good look, and the Hawks lost. After the game, Young was asked if he preferred being the inbounds passer, and he tersely responded with, “It’s not anybody else’s way, but the coach’s way.”
Players routinely felt Pierce didn’t take accountability for mistakes they viewed were his own. Last season as the team went through its final year of a complete rebuild, Pierce would frequently say the team lacked energy and effort, but it would be defiantly rebuffed by the team when asked about his claims afterward.
This season was much of the same, as players felt like Pierce didn’t take any blame for the team blowing 11 games this season where they held a fourth-quarter lead. When some of the players approached Pierce a few weeks ago with the request to have more off-ball movement and free flowing in the offense in late-game situations instead of stagnation, they, once again, felt unheard.
Over the past few weeks, players started to wonder if Pierce had resigned to the inevitability of his situation and was going to go out his way. As the same story played out in end-of-game situations, sources say Hawks owner Ressler grew incensed with his team losing winnable games in the same manner.
The Hawks’ offseason that was widely seen as a success clearly added pressure to Pierce’s situation. In his fourth year as the head of the Hawks’ front office, Schlenk landed Rajon Rondo (two years, $15 million), Danilo Gallinari (three years, $61 million), Bogdan Bogdanovic (four years, $72 million), Kris Dunn (two years, $10 million) and Solomon Hill (one year, $2.17 million). In turn, there was rare hype around the Hawks again — especially when they started the season 4-1 and had the league’s second-best offense early on.
But the harsh truth about Pierce’s dismissal is that he never truly had a chance to coach this group, as the injuries changed everything about the challenge that awaited them.
Rondo has missed 16 games this season with knee, ankle and back injuries. When he has played, the Hawks have been 14.9 points worse with him on the floor, per Cleaning the Glass.Dunn has missed the entire season for the Hawks. He originally was diagnosed with right knee cartilage disruption, and as he worked his way back, Dunn had a setback and needed right ankle surgery to remove loose cartilage.Bogdanovic has missed 25 games with an avulsion fracture in his knee. He has been able to practice lately and should return soon.Gallinari missed 10 games due to an ankle sprain. Since coming back from the injury, he has not looked like himself and has been a consistent target for opposing teams to attack while he’s been on defense.First-round pick Onyeka Okongwu entered his rookie year with a stress fracture causing him to be behind from the outset. Yet amid all of that roster uncertainty, this part of the Hawks’ landscape hadn’t changed: Ressler is known to have made it abundantly clear that he expected meaningful growth from this group, and it appears no amount of unforeseen setbacks was about to change his view on that front.
“As we said at the beginning of the season, our goal was to have progress this year and to move forward,” Schlenk said in a news conference discussing Pierce’s dismissal. “We just felt like it wasn’t happening as quickly as we wanted it to. These are not easy decisions. These are real-life decisions that affect multiple families, and they’re not easy. We felt like, for the organization, it was the best thing to do moving forward.”
Anyone who had been close to the Hawks’ situation these past few seasons and saw the struggles of this campaign could sense this was coming, perhaps no one more than Pierce himself. Just last week, in an interview with The Athletic’s Jeff Schultz, he was uniquely candid in assessing his own situation.
“Travis is going to fire me one day,” Pierce said. “And do you know what I’m going to say? The guy gave me a great opportunity in life. Do you think I’m going to be pissed? He’s damn near my best friend.”
Those personal dynamics were on display at the end of their partnership, when Schlenk struck a somber tone in his Zoom call to discuss the decision with reporters.
“I don’t know if you guys in your jobs ever have to let people go; I’ve been unfortunate (enough) to be in a position to have to fire people in the past, and I can tell you it’s an extremely difficult thing,” said Schlenk, who was hired in May 2017 after spending the previous 12 years with Golden State.
“You’re not talking about one person. You’re talking about their family (as well). And in a situation where you’re talking about coaches, you’re talking about their assistant coaches, their video staff. A decision like this, I certainly don’t take lightly. I’ve been in the NBA for a long time and fortunately have been in a position to be able to do this, and these are decisions I don’t take lightly at all. These decisions affect families and multiple families.”
Pierce leaves Atlanta with a 63-120 record, the 11th-worst record by winning percentage in NBA history with a minimum of 175 games coached. An argument can certainly be made that Pierce wasn’t given enough time to show what he can do as a head coach.
His first season in Atlanta was meant to be all about playing the young players as much as possible, allowing them to play through their mistakes and hoping to end up with a high draft pick in the lottery.
The Hawks entered last season still in rebuild mode, as the talent from his first season didn’t improve. Evan Turner was the team’s backup point guard entering the season, and they had a center rotation of Alex Len, Damian Jones and then-rookie Bruno Fernando.
By the time the Hawks reached the unexpected end of their 2019-20 campaign, with a 20-47 record on March 11 that would stand for good after the NBA decided not to invite the Hawks (or seven other teams) to the Orlando bubble, sources say Pierce’s job security was already extremely tenuous, in large part, because of the locker room’s distrust in him. When Pierce publicly declared last March that the Hawks would be in the playoffs this season, it caught everyone inside the front office by surprise.
Whenever Schlenk was asked about it on multiple occasions over the course of the next few months, he would always be sure to downplay Pierce’s guarantee. If not for a multitude of non-basketball factors, from the pandemic that had forced the premature end to their season to the emergence of the social justice movement in which Pierce was so involved, sources with knowledge of the Hawks’ plans say he may have been fired at that point.
But Pierce had become a vocal leader on the social justice front during a time when the spotlight had turned in that meaningful direction, and it’s clear the bigger-than-basketball element won out when it came to the Hawks’ calculus. Pierce had been lauded for his role on the Coaches Association’s committee on racial justice and reform, with the combination of his voice and the Atlanta backdrop proving powerful. From Ressler on down, there was an understanding that not only did the season being cut short take valuable time away from Pierce and his team, but his work off the court deserved to be part of the equation too.
The Hawks have taken a conscious effort in ingratiating themselves within the fabric of the community in trying to create long-lasting change, and Pierce was at the heart of it. Pierce was the first coach in the league to get his team to use its arena as a polling place, and State Farm Arena turned into the largest polling location in the state of Georgia’s history. According to a Hawks team source, 40,000 people voted at the arena for the November election.
What’s more, it mattered a great deal that Young’s father, Ray, had even supported Pierce publicly on social media by lauding the work he had done in the social justice space.
“Talking to my peers, seeing their leadership off court has been inspiring, (including) Lloyd’s leadership with the NBA coaches committee,” Utah Jazz coach Quin Snyder said in July.
Pierce’s reputation among his peers was evident after he was fired, with San Antonio’s Gregg Popovich, Dallas’ Rick Carlisle, Philadelphia’s Doc Rivers and New Orleans’ Stan Van Gundy among those voicing their support.
Still, the ground beneath him entering this season had been extremely shaky. The fact that the Hawks had not picked up his team option for the 2021-22 season was evidence enough that he was in trouble.
In an interview with The Athletic before the start of the season, when Ressler was asked what his confidence level was in Pierce and Schlenk as a duo, the team’s owner said he needed to see more out of them before being sure they were the ones who would lead the team to a title one day.
“All I can say is I think Travis and Lloyd are a superb team so far, but please understand let’s win a bit,” Ressler said. “We really do believe that last year’s season was difficult for so many reasons, including the fact that it stopped early just when we started playing good basketball. Please hear me, 20-47 in a 67-game season is not something to write home about. I think we do have a good roster. We’ve done some good things, not just on the court but in coaching and in our front office.
“I feel great about where we are starting the season. I don’t get into the press stuff too much because I would rather let the players, coaches and GM talk about what we’re doing from a basketball perspective because they should know more and are closer to it, but I look forward to talking to you guys whether it’s at the midseason point or end of season. We should be so much better, and it’s going to be painfully obvious. We’ll see.”
Thirty-four games into the season, the improvement hadn’t come. They are currently 11th in the Eastern Conference — unacceptable by the organization’s standards considering only the top 10 teams will take part in the league’s new play-in tournament. As Schlenk pointed out in his news conference, there’s plenty of time to move up in the East standings as well (they’re just 3.5 games back of the fourth seed).
“We have a ton of basketball to play, and we’re still right there,” Schlenk said. “It’s not like we’re 10 games out of the playoffs or anything like that. We’re a couple of games out, so if you have one good week, you’re right back into it.”
There’s optimism that a new voice will make all the difference, that this difficult decision to dismiss Pierce will ultimately prove to be worth it. McMillan is a proven commodity, having been a head coach for a combined 16 seasons in Seattle, Portland and Indiana (661-588; nine playoff appearances; and a 17-36 postseason mark). And last but certainly not least, Young is known to be fond of McMillan’s style.
“My focus is really on the Hawks and trying to assist Coach on what he’s trying to do here and after the season, we’ll see what happens,” McMillan, who went 2-1 while serving as acting head coach while Pierce was away to attend the birth of his second child, said on Feb. 16. “I signed on knowing what I would be coming in to and knowing what I needed to do as far as joining Coach Pierce’s staff as an assistant. This is the role I wanted. We’re going to try to turn this thing around.”
Now he’ll try turning it around as the man in charge and as the voice the Hawks hope can lead them into the playoffs.
— The Athletic’s Shams Charania also contributed to the reporting for this story.
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 2 March 2021 19:31 (three years ago) link
feels like a team with bad vibes they shd trade collins to the spurs
― class project pat (m bison), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 00:27 (three years ago) link
Jemele Hill in the Atlantic:
The night that sports began shutting down was the night that the United States began shutting down. On March 11, 2020, an announcer at the Oklahoma City Thunder’s home arena told fans just before tip-off that the evening’s game had been postponed. Within an hour, the visiting Utah Jazz revealed that a player—soon identified as the center Rudy Gobert—had tested positive for COVID-19, and the NBA also declared that it was indefinitely suspending the season. Suddenly, Americans were forced to accept that the coronavirus pandemic was going to completely disrupt everyday life.Although the NBA eventually resumed its season by creating a playoff bubble, and other professional and college leagues figured out a way to return in some form, the sports world is still struggling for normalcy nearly a year after widespread shutdowns began and fans turned their attention to matters of life and death.As the pandemic dragged on, the leagues, universities, pro franchises, and other entities that profit from a multibillion-dollar sports economy made a push for games to return. But these efforts also reflected a working assumption that the mere presence of sports would provide comfort, and perhaps a welcome distraction, for people who wanted to escape the horrors of the pandemic, at least momentarily.But the ratings for some of the biggest sporting events in the past year show that the public’s emotional connection to sports during a tumultuous time has been grossly overestimated. In practically every sport, the number of television viewers nosedived in 2020, despite the fact that more people than usual were stuck at home. Compared with the previous year, ratings were down 51 percent for the NBA Finals, 61 percent for the NHL finals, and 45 percent for tennis’s U.S. Open. Not even the Kentucky Derby was safe: Ratings dropped 49 percent from the previous year. The 8.3 million viewers represented the derby’s lowest TV audience ever.The NFL has long been immune to ratings pressures, but not this year. The NFL couldn’t have asked for a better story line for the Super Bowl earlier this month. The game pitted Tom Brady, the celebrated Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback seeking his seventh Super Bowl win at age 43, against Patrick Mahomes, the brilliant young Kansas City Chiefs star who has become the new face of pro football. The game should have been a ratings bonanza. Instead, the Super Bowl drew its lowest ratings in 15 years.Not even Brady and Mahomes could overcome some daunting underlying trends. In recent years, sports programming has had to compete harder for fans’ attention. Streaming platforms such as Netflix and Hulu have exploded in popularity as more Americans are severing ties with their cable and satellite companies. That shift has accelerated during the pandemic. In 2020, streaming services saw a 50 percent hike in viewership from the previous year. Even before the pandemic, cord-cutting had become a real challenge to sports-network giants such as ESPN, which currently has 83 million subscribers. Ten years ago, ESPN had just over 100 million subscribers.Plenty of evidence suggests that sports broadcasts aren’t resonating as well with Generation Z—Americans born after 1996—as they did with previous generations. According to a recent poll, only 53 percent of Gen Zers identify as sports fans. And more troubling for networks that have invested heavily in live sports, Gen Zers are half as likely as Millennials to watch live sports regularly, and twice as likely to never watch.Exacerbating those trends, the pandemic has made sports unusually tough to follow. The normal sports calendar was wildly reshuffled. The NBA Finals, which are usually played in June, began in October. Normally in April, pro golf’s storied Masters Tournament was moved to November. In college football, well more than 100 games were canceled or postponed as many colleges and universities struggled to deal with the virus. During some weeks of the NFL season, games were played on Tuesdays or Wednesdays because positive COVID-19 tests by players and staff had delayed games scheduled for the previous weekend. In late November, the Denver Broncos actually had to play their game against the New Orleans Saints without any quarterbacks on the roster because of COVID-19 protocols. (To fill the position, Denver tapped a wide receiver from its practice squad.) The NCAA men’s March Madness tournament will take place this year, but inside a bubble in Indianapolis, and with a limited number of fans.Even though the sports world did provide several moments of reprieve for the nation—for example, ESPN’s highly successful documentary series on Michael Jordan—it ultimately could not make fans forget certain harsh realities. Even if some fans were able to compartmentalize the pandemic’s heavy toll, the sports-viewing experience only reminded fans of just how abnormal things were. The pageantry and traditions in sports largely were missing. The Augusta National Golf Club’s “Amen Corner” had no roaring crowd during the Masters. When Green Bay Packers players scored touchdowns at Lambeau Field, they did the famous “Lambeau leap” into empty stands—if they did it at all. The new normal for fans is watching games with manufactured crowd noise and virtual or cardboard fans in the stands.The overriding lesson from the past year is that too much money was at stake for pro and college sports not to forge ahead—no matter how awkward, hypocritical, and exploitative the attempt might be. On March 7, the NBA will hold its All-Star Game festivities in Atlanta, despite serious objections by players, including the superstar LeBron James. The dynamic showcase event is usually stretched out over the course of a weekend, but this year the All-Star Game, slam-dunk contest, skills competition, and three-point-shooting contest will be shoehorned into one day. The bad optics are difficult to ignore. When the NBA announced plans for the event, Georgia had one of the worst COVID-19 death rates in the nation. And even though the league has instituted strict health and safety protocols for its All-Star events—which include requiring participating players and their guests to travel by private transportation—the league clearly believes that trying to create some version of All-Star Weekend is worth potentially exposing its best players. Not to mention that the presence of this event is complicating the jobs of Atlanta officials. Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms has already pleaded with basketball fans not to travel to her city for the event and for party promoters not to host All-Star-related events. But considering the state’s lenient COVID-19 restrictions, Bottoms’s pleas may be totally ignored.Since that fateful night in Oklahoma City last March, the sports world hasn’t been the escape that some fans desperately needed it to be. It has simply mirrored the chaos the entire country has experienced. During a deadly pandemic, a lot of people just couldn’t bring themselves to enjoy the distraction that sports traditionally provide.
Although the NBA eventually resumed its season by creating a playoff bubble, and other professional and college leagues figured out a way to return in some form, the sports world is still struggling for normalcy nearly a year after widespread shutdowns began and fans turned their attention to matters of life and death.
As the pandemic dragged on, the leagues, universities, pro franchises, and other entities that profit from a multibillion-dollar sports economy made a push for games to return. But these efforts also reflected a working assumption that the mere presence of sports would provide comfort, and perhaps a welcome distraction, for people who wanted to escape the horrors of the pandemic, at least momentarily.
But the ratings for some of the biggest sporting events in the past year show that the public’s emotional connection to sports during a tumultuous time has been grossly overestimated. In practically every sport, the number of television viewers nosedived in 2020, despite the fact that more people than usual were stuck at home. Compared with the previous year, ratings were down 51 percent for the NBA Finals, 61 percent for the NHL finals, and 45 percent for tennis’s U.S. Open. Not even the Kentucky Derby was safe: Ratings dropped 49 percent from the previous year. The 8.3 million viewers represented the derby’s lowest TV audience ever.
The NFL has long been immune to ratings pressures, but not this year. The NFL couldn’t have asked for a better story line for the Super Bowl earlier this month. The game pitted Tom Brady, the celebrated Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback seeking his seventh Super Bowl win at age 43, against Patrick Mahomes, the brilliant young Kansas City Chiefs star who has become the new face of pro football. The game should have been a ratings bonanza. Instead, the Super Bowl drew its lowest ratings in 15 years.
Not even Brady and Mahomes could overcome some daunting underlying trends. In recent years, sports programming has had to compete harder for fans’ attention. Streaming platforms such as Netflix and Hulu have exploded in popularity as more Americans are severing ties with their cable and satellite companies. That shift has accelerated during the pandemic. In 2020, streaming services saw a 50 percent hike in viewership from the previous year. Even before the pandemic, cord-cutting had become a real challenge to sports-network giants such as ESPN, which currently has 83 million subscribers. Ten years ago, ESPN had just over 100 million subscribers.
Plenty of evidence suggests that sports broadcasts aren’t resonating as well with Generation Z—Americans born after 1996—as they did with previous generations. According to a recent poll, only 53 percent of Gen Zers identify as sports fans. And more troubling for networks that have invested heavily in live sports, Gen Zers are half as likely as Millennials to watch live sports regularly, and twice as likely to never watch.
Exacerbating those trends, the pandemic has made sports unusually tough to follow. The normal sports calendar was wildly reshuffled. The NBA Finals, which are usually played in June, began in October. Normally in April, pro golf’s storied Masters Tournament was moved to November. In college football, well more than 100 games were canceled or postponed as many colleges and universities struggled to deal with the virus. During some weeks of the NFL season, games were played on Tuesdays or Wednesdays because positive COVID-19 tests by players and staff had delayed games scheduled for the previous weekend. In late November, the Denver Broncos actually had to play their game against the New Orleans Saints without any quarterbacks on the roster because of COVID-19 protocols. (To fill the position, Denver tapped a wide receiver from its practice squad.) The NCAA men’s March Madness tournament will take place this year, but inside a bubble in Indianapolis, and with a limited number of fans.
Even though the sports world did provide several moments of reprieve for the nation—for example, ESPN’s highly successful documentary series on Michael Jordan—it ultimately could not make fans forget certain harsh realities. Even if some fans were able to compartmentalize the pandemic’s heavy toll, the sports-viewing experience only reminded fans of just how abnormal things were. The pageantry and traditions in sports largely were missing. The Augusta National Golf Club’s “Amen Corner” had no roaring crowd during the Masters. When Green Bay Packers players scored touchdowns at Lambeau Field, they did the famous “Lambeau leap” into empty stands—if they did it at all. The new normal for fans is watching games with manufactured crowd noise and virtual or cardboard fans in the stands.
The overriding lesson from the past year is that too much money was at stake for pro and college sports not to forge ahead—no matter how awkward, hypocritical, and exploitative the attempt might be. On March 7, the NBA will hold its All-Star Game festivities in Atlanta, despite serious objections by players, including the superstar LeBron James. The dynamic showcase event is usually stretched out over the course of a weekend, but this year the All-Star Game, slam-dunk contest, skills competition, and three-point-shooting contest will be shoehorned into one day. The bad optics are difficult to ignore. When the NBA announced plans for the event, Georgia had one of the worst COVID-19 death rates in the nation. And even though the league has instituted strict health and safety protocols for its All-Star events—which include requiring participating players and their guests to travel by private transportation—the league clearly believes that trying to create some version of All-Star Weekend is worth potentially exposing its best players. Not to mention that the presence of this event is complicating the jobs of Atlanta officials. Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms has already pleaded with basketball fans not to travel to her city for the event and for party promoters not to host All-Star-related events. But considering the state’s lenient COVID-19 restrictions, Bottoms’s pleas may be totally ignored.
Since that fateful night in Oklahoma City last March, the sports world hasn’t been the escape that some fans desperately needed it to be. It has simply mirrored the chaos the entire country has experienced. During a deadly pandemic, a lot of people just couldn’t bring themselves to enjoy the distraction that sports traditionally provide.
― G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 20:17 (three years ago) link
Anthony Mason fought the X-Man, and the Knicks of the ’90s were made: ‘Neither one backed down’
The ’90s Knicks thrived on being badasses. A team of some of the toughest, most physically intimidating players in the NBA. They were the spiritual successors to the Bad Boys Pistons; the team Michael Jordan saw whenever he looked over his shoulder.Patrick Ewing was the future Hall of Famer at the center, but Charles Oakley, Xavier McDaniel and Anthony Mason were more than just the muscle. Together, they brought the Knicks back to relevance and provided their adoring fan base a new golden generation. The Knicks never won a ring — thanks, Michael! — but they won plenty of games and represented the soul of New York City.Pat Riley, another Hall of Famer, was the mastermind. He left behind Los Angeles and his Showtime roots to put together the roster he thought could defeat, and beat up, the rest of the league. Gone was the Hollywood glitz and glamour; now he wanted Schenectady toughness.David Stern was unhappy with it. And he was ignored. While those Knicks starred at Madison Square Garden, they were forged during a brutal week of training camp at the College of Charleston in South Carolina. That’s where Riley laid out his grand plan, and where a fight broke out that no one who was there can forget. Xavier McDaniel. Anthony Mason. Two titans, 460 pounds of man between them, colliding on location, inside a stuffy, small college gym.Twelve players, coaches, executives, doctors and agents from the 1991 Knicks agreed to share their memories of Riley’s first New York camp with The Athletic, and explain how a scrap between two giants set the franchise on its way to a decade of rugged glory. McDaniel: I was thinking more or less like “Showtime” when I was going to be playing for Pat Riley and the Knicks. I was thinking, “Shit, I’m going to be getting on the break, being like Worthy, and Mark Jackson’s going to be kicking it out to me.”Greg Anthony, the Knicks’ No. 1 pick in 1991, now an analyst for Turner Sports and NBA TV: Hell, yeah! That’s literally what they told me when they drafted me.Dave Checketts, who took over as Knicks team president in March 1991: I knew Pat for Showtime and we were not giving him Magic Johnson and Michael Cooper and these guys that could change ends of the floor so quickly. We were giving him a very tough, physical team and he knew it.Ewing, who is now the coach at Georgetown: He already told us from day one he wanted us to be the most physical, the most conditioned, the hardest working team ever. One of the things he talked about is he’s from Schenectady — a blue collar town — and he wanted us to be blue collar Knicks.Carlton McKinney, Mason’s roommate that season: Everything was intense. Practice was intense. He was looking for a specific type of player.McDaniel: Pat Riley showed a video (before camp began) and on the video it had me and Oakley fighting (when McDaniel played for the SuperSonics and Oakley was already a Knick). I’m sitting there like, “Oh shit.”Mark Jackson, an All-Star for the Knicks in 1990, now an analyst for ABC/ESPN: I don’t think it was a better way to end a meeting, than like that. It was a perfect message to the perfect group of folks he was trying to deliver the message to. And we all got up like, “OK, let’s go do this.”McDaniel: After the video, Pat Riley said, “Now we fight together.”Ewing: (Riley) knows what buttons to push to get the most out of you.Anthony: You could hate him for it.Brian Quinnett, who would be traded during the season: All I remember is being so sore I could barely walk from the hotel to the gym. Riley practices were no joke.Jackson: They’d have the windows covered. Nobody in there, in the building. It was just us, practicing, really with no motivation other than to get better and to prepare ourselves.Tim McCormick, whose last pro season was 1991-92: It was all about a culture of accountability. We’re going to play through pain.McKinney: He’d fine you if guys went to the lane and just laid it up.Quinnett: Riley had a rule that we gave up no easy layups. If you could get there, you had to foul — and hard. Intimidation.Dr. Norman Scott, Knicks team physician for 27 years: The papers around New York had built it up too. It was no surprise. Anyone who followed the Knicks closely knew there was going to be combustion at training camp.Anthony: The environment was so tense that it tended to always break out in fights or pushing and shoving matches.McDaniel: It was like putting 10 lions in and there’s a baby gazelle, so only the strong survive.Scott: It was going to be a war in Charleston, and indeed it was just a question which day the explosion between X-Man, Oak and Mase was going to take place.Riley and Checketts traded for McDaniel on Oct. 1, 1991, right before camp. Mason, meanwhile, was from New York and had tiny tastes of the NBA with Denver and New Jersey. The Knicks scouted him in the now-defunct United States Basketball League. Riley: (Mason) had been overlooked in the draft. Simply being from New York and also having an opportunity to work out for the Knicks, I just think this was an opportunity of his lifetime to really make it.Don Cronson, Mason’s former agent: Mason was the new kid on the block and wanted to establish himself and was looking at everybody.Riley: He didn’t care who was in front of him.McDaniel: (Riley) said he “didn’t want the Xavier McDaniel from the Phoenix Suns. He played soft. I want the Xavier McDaniel that played when he was playing for the Seattle Supersonics. I want that guy to play.”Anthony: X had always been like a bully in terms of, he wanted to impose his will on you. And that was a part of his game.Ewing: X was the type of guy who wasn’t going to back down.Jeff Van Gundy, an assistant coach on that team and now an ABC/ESPN analyst: Mason and Xavier McDaniel went at it, in a full-blown fight, like five minutes into the first practice.Scott: It was the second day.Ewing: I think it was right before we had a water break. They just got into it. They were talking so much trash to each other.Riley: I just remember the two of them looking at one another like warriors. They just looked at each other like, “OK, something is going to happen.” Our very first competitive rebounding drill — the block-out drill — about 10 minutes into practice after we warmed them up, and we went right to defense and rebounding. Sure enough, the two of them squared off.McDaniel: I didn’t think he liked the shit I was talking to him. I was like, “Get that shit out of here.” I was blocking his shot. And he sucker-punched me. From then on, it was on.McKinney: Neither one backed down. If we’d let it go they’d still be at it.McDaniel: I was just trying to get at him. And Pat Riley and them was like, “No,” and I was like, “No, fuck that. Nobody’s gonna punch me and get a-fucking-way with it.” You know?Van Gundy: We had the guards, and then (assistant coach) Paul Silas and coach Riley were at the other end with the bigs. Because the guards go through rebounding drills at about 80 percent and everybody’s trying to stay out of harm’s way, our end was pretty just OK, right? But when we were doing our stuff, you could hear the grunts and groans and physical contact at the other end. And you felt it even though you weren’t seeing it.McDaniel: I backed up and started chasing him. I just chased him. He’s trying to get out the way and I’m trying to get at him. They went in the locker room and I was trying to get in the locker room. Patrick was grabbing me, and I’m forearming Patrick. “I’ll see him outside.” He was like, “Calm down.” And I was like, “No, fuck that. I don’t want to hear that shit.”Van Gundy: He did chase him; Mason was backpedaling, but Mason didn’t run to the locker room. Would you if you were Mason?Riley: It was from one bleacher to the next trying to break them apart. It was very hard.McDaniel: I was still mad. They tried to get me to let it go. I said, “No. No.” But then they started like I could possibly be suspended, and I’m like, “OK, motherfucker hits you, none of that matters?” This is in the meeting. I was just like, “No, I’m not letting this go.” They just said, “Hey, we’ve got to let this go, we’ve got to move on from it.” That I couldn’t be disruptive in practice and do I agree to let it go? I said, “Yes.” I let it go, we shook on it and we just went back.Riley: When it was over with, they looked at each other, “OK, we’re done with that.” It’s like, “I marked my territory and you marked yours.”McDaniel: We actually, we became pretty good friends after that.McKinney: There was no tension after (the fight), that’s why I think it was orchestrated. (Riley) was trying to find out where your breaking point was.Scott: Pat was the master of getting the most out of players. He knew probably when the trade was made (for McDaniel) this was going to be an issue. There’s not much that ever escaped him. I would suspect he was just waiting for this, put the right alignment of the teams so they’re head to head. Once it happened it was sort of like, “OK, the volcano erupted” and it was going to settle down.Checketts: When I saw the look on Pat’s face, when I walked up to Pat after practice, he was charged up. He wasn’t the least bit unnerved. He thought we were going to have a team to be reckoned with right from the beginning. He was very happy.Van Gundy: That first rebounding drill and subsequent physical altercation (between McDaniel and Mason), I think, spoke to who we were going to be.But, wait, X-Man, did you ever actually punch Mason back?McDaniel: No. He punched me and that was pretty much the whole basics of the fight, but I was trying to get at him.The Knicks won 51 games in Riley’s first season, a 12-game improvement over the previous season. It would be a decade before New York failed to at least reach the conference semifinals, and twice the Knicks made it to the Finals. Once, in 1994, it was under Riley. But whether it was Riley or Van Gundy coaching the team, the Knicks always played the same way — the way Riley first showed them in that initial training camp.Jackson: The Knicks are still trying to get that back.Scott: One game during the season, pre-game, (Oakley came in and) he said, “Hey, I think I broke my hand.” I looked at it and there was no question it was broken. A first-year medical student would have figured it out. I said, “We’ll get an X-ray, Oak, but you’re out for tonight.” He said, “No, I’m playing. We’ll get an X-ray after the game.” He played the whole time. Bones were moving.McCormick: If you were going to be a part of this team you had to retaliate, you had to show some toughness. Every day Oakley just kept hitting me over and over and over. I was getting very tired of it. One day in practice I got frustrated and I swung my arm around and hit him right in the mouth and split his lip. Guys grabbed him quick and it probably saved me from having a fight that I would not have wanted to be in. As they dragged him off, he had to go to the doctor and get stitches and he gave me a look like, “Tomorrow, you die.”I didn’t sleep well that night. I kept thinking about when I first saw Charles. The next day he walked into the locker room and he saw me and he started walking right over to me. So I stood up like, “OK, here we go.” He said, “Have you seen the new Stallone movie?” I thought this is strange because he’s never talked to me before. That was like the first conversation we ever had. We started talking about it. I realized that until I stood up to him he didn’t respect me.Checketts: I thought it really hurt us on the referee side of things and it put me very much at odds with David Stern. He thought we had changed the game and slowed it down and had this tough, physical confrontation style of defense. David was all about the good of the game. I knew that other owners were giving him a bad time about our team, about the way we played, and saying things like we were going to ruin basketball.Van Gundy: The funny part about the next year, the theme, from a business standpoint, they would draw a lane, like a court, and then have the outline of dead bodies in the lane. That’s how physical we were. Come into the paint and pay the ultimate price. Now it got rejected, but it always stood out to me that there was a source of basketball truth into that.P.S. McDaniel only played one season in New York. He paid $275,000 to buy out the final year of his contract but hoped the Knicks would re-sign him. They didn’t. He played five more NBA seasons. Mason went on to a solid NBA career, playing 10 more seasons (four more in New York), including an All-Star campaign with Miami in 2001. Mason died in February 2015 from a reported heart attack. He and McDaniel had indeed become friends, spending time together while Mason played for the Hornets and McDaniel was retired, living in South Carolina.McDaniel: I was just like, “Wow” — someone that I’ve known for quite a while and just kind of shocking. My ex called me because his ex and my ex are good friends, and so I got a call from her saying that Anthony Mason had passed. And then right after she called me, a couple hours later, it was all over the news. You just feel for the family. You ain’t thinking about the arguments you might have gotten into. You’re just making sure the family is OK.
Patrick Ewing was the future Hall of Famer at the center, but Charles Oakley, Xavier McDaniel and Anthony Mason were more than just the muscle. Together, they brought the Knicks back to relevance and provided their adoring fan base a new golden generation. The Knicks never won a ring — thanks, Michael! — but they won plenty of games and represented the soul of New York City.
Pat Riley, another Hall of Famer, was the mastermind. He left behind Los Angeles and his Showtime roots to put together the roster he thought could defeat, and beat up, the rest of the league. Gone was the Hollywood glitz and glamour; now he wanted Schenectady toughness.
David Stern was unhappy with it. And he was ignored.
While those Knicks starred at Madison Square Garden, they were forged during a brutal week of training camp at the College of Charleston in South Carolina. That’s where Riley laid out his grand plan, and where a fight broke out that no one who was there can forget.
Xavier McDaniel. Anthony Mason. Two titans, 460 pounds of man between them, colliding on location, inside a stuffy, small college gym.
Twelve players, coaches, executives, doctors and agents from the 1991 Knicks agreed to share their memories of Riley’s first New York camp with The Athletic, and explain how a scrap between two giants set the franchise on its way to a decade of rugged glory.
McDaniel: I was thinking more or less like “Showtime” when I was going to be playing for Pat Riley and the Knicks. I was thinking, “Shit, I’m going to be getting on the break, being like Worthy, and Mark Jackson’s going to be kicking it out to me.”
Greg Anthony, the Knicks’ No. 1 pick in 1991, now an analyst for Turner Sports and NBA TV: Hell, yeah! That’s literally what they told me when they drafted me.
Dave Checketts, who took over as Knicks team president in March 1991: I knew Pat for Showtime and we were not giving him Magic Johnson and Michael Cooper and these guys that could change ends of the floor so quickly. We were giving him a very tough, physical team and he knew it.
Ewing, who is now the coach at Georgetown: He already told us from day one he wanted us to be the most physical, the most conditioned, the hardest working team ever. One of the things he talked about is he’s from Schenectady — a blue collar town — and he wanted us to be blue collar Knicks.
Carlton McKinney, Mason’s roommate that season: Everything was intense. Practice was intense. He was looking for a specific type of player.
McDaniel: Pat Riley showed a video (before camp began) and on the video it had me and Oakley fighting (when McDaniel played for the SuperSonics and Oakley was already a Knick). I’m sitting there like, “Oh shit.”
Mark Jackson, an All-Star for the Knicks in 1990, now an analyst for ABC/ESPN: I don’t think it was a better way to end a meeting, than like that. It was a perfect message to the perfect group of folks he was trying to deliver the message to. And we all got up like, “OK, let’s go do this.”
McDaniel: After the video, Pat Riley said, “Now we fight together.”
Ewing: (Riley) knows what buttons to push to get the most out of you.
Anthony: You could hate him for it.
Brian Quinnett, who would be traded during the season: All I remember is being so sore I could barely walk from the hotel to the gym. Riley practices were no joke.
Jackson: They’d have the windows covered. Nobody in there, in the building. It was just us, practicing, really with no motivation other than to get better and to prepare ourselves.
Tim McCormick, whose last pro season was 1991-92: It was all about a culture of accountability. We’re going to play through pain.
McKinney: He’d fine you if guys went to the lane and just laid it up.
Quinnett: Riley had a rule that we gave up no easy layups. If you could get there, you had to foul — and hard. Intimidation.
Dr. Norman Scott, Knicks team physician for 27 years: The papers around New York had built it up too. It was no surprise. Anyone who followed the Knicks closely knew there was going to be combustion at training camp.
Anthony: The environment was so tense that it tended to always break out in fights or pushing and shoving matches.
McDaniel: It was like putting 10 lions in and there’s a baby gazelle, so only the strong survive.
Scott: It was going to be a war in Charleston, and indeed it was just a question which day the explosion between X-Man, Oak and Mase was going to take place.
Riley and Checketts traded for McDaniel on Oct. 1, 1991, right before camp. Mason, meanwhile, was from New York and had tiny tastes of the NBA with Denver and New Jersey. The Knicks scouted him in the now-defunct United States Basketball League.
Riley: (Mason) had been overlooked in the draft. Simply being from New York and also having an opportunity to work out for the Knicks, I just think this was an opportunity of his lifetime to really make it.
Don Cronson, Mason’s former agent: Mason was the new kid on the block and wanted to establish himself and was looking at everybody.
Riley: He didn’t care who was in front of him.
McDaniel: (Riley) said he “didn’t want the Xavier McDaniel from the Phoenix Suns. He played soft. I want the Xavier McDaniel that played when he was playing for the Seattle Supersonics. I want that guy to play.”
Anthony: X had always been like a bully in terms of, he wanted to impose his will on you. And that was a part of his game.
Ewing: X was the type of guy who wasn’t going to back down.
Jeff Van Gundy, an assistant coach on that team and now an ABC/ESPN analyst: Mason and Xavier McDaniel went at it, in a full-blown fight, like five minutes into the first practice.
Scott: It was the second day.
Ewing: I think it was right before we had a water break. They just got into it. They were talking so much trash to each other.
Riley: I just remember the two of them looking at one another like warriors. They just looked at each other like, “OK, something is going to happen.” Our very first competitive rebounding drill — the block-out drill — about 10 minutes into practice after we warmed them up, and we went right to defense and rebounding. Sure enough, the two of them squared off.
McDaniel: I didn’t think he liked the shit I was talking to him. I was like, “Get that shit out of here.” I was blocking his shot. And he sucker-punched me. From then on, it was on.
McKinney: Neither one backed down. If we’d let it go they’d still be at it.
McDaniel: I was just trying to get at him. And Pat Riley and them was like, “No,” and I was like, “No, fuck that. Nobody’s gonna punch me and get a-fucking-way with it.” You know?
Van Gundy: We had the guards, and then (assistant coach) Paul Silas and coach Riley were at the other end with the bigs. Because the guards go through rebounding drills at about 80 percent and everybody’s trying to stay out of harm’s way, our end was pretty just OK, right? But when we were doing our stuff, you could hear the grunts and groans and physical contact at the other end. And you felt it even though you weren’t seeing it.
McDaniel: I backed up and started chasing him. I just chased him. He’s trying to get out the way and I’m trying to get at him. They went in the locker room and I was trying to get in the locker room. Patrick was grabbing me, and I’m forearming Patrick. “I’ll see him outside.” He was like, “Calm down.” And I was like, “No, fuck that. I don’t want to hear that shit.”
Van Gundy: He did chase him; Mason was backpedaling, but Mason didn’t run to the locker room. Would you if you were Mason?
Riley: It was from one bleacher to the next trying to break them apart. It was very hard.
McDaniel: I was still mad. They tried to get me to let it go. I said, “No. No.” But then they started like I could possibly be suspended, and I’m like, “OK, motherfucker hits you, none of that matters?” This is in the meeting. I was just like, “No, I’m not letting this go.” They just said, “Hey, we’ve got to let this go, we’ve got to move on from it.” That I couldn’t be disruptive in practice and do I agree to let it go? I said, “Yes.” I let it go, we shook on it and we just went back.
Riley: When it was over with, they looked at each other, “OK, we’re done with that.” It’s like, “I marked my territory and you marked yours.”
McDaniel: We actually, we became pretty good friends after that.
McKinney: There was no tension after (the fight), that’s why I think it was orchestrated. (Riley) was trying to find out where your breaking point was.
Scott: Pat was the master of getting the most out of players. He knew probably when the trade was made (for McDaniel) this was going to be an issue. There’s not much that ever escaped him. I would suspect he was just waiting for this, put the right alignment of the teams so they’re head to head. Once it happened it was sort of like, “OK, the volcano erupted” and it was going to settle down.
Checketts: When I saw the look on Pat’s face, when I walked up to Pat after practice, he was charged up. He wasn’t the least bit unnerved. He thought we were going to have a team to be reckoned with right from the beginning. He was very happy.
Van Gundy: That first rebounding drill and subsequent physical altercation (between McDaniel and Mason), I think, spoke to who we were going to be.
But, wait, X-Man, did you ever actually punch Mason back?
McDaniel: No. He punched me and that was pretty much the whole basics of the fight, but I was trying to get at him.
The Knicks won 51 games in Riley’s first season, a 12-game improvement over the previous season. It would be a decade before New York failed to at least reach the conference semifinals, and twice the Knicks made it to the Finals. Once, in 1994, it was under Riley. But whether it was Riley or Van Gundy coaching the team, the Knicks always played the same way — the way Riley first showed them in that initial training camp.
Jackson: The Knicks are still trying to get that back.
Scott: One game during the season, pre-game, (Oakley came in and) he said, “Hey, I think I broke my hand.” I looked at it and there was no question it was broken. A first-year medical student would have figured it out. I said, “We’ll get an X-ray, Oak, but you’re out for tonight.” He said, “No, I’m playing. We’ll get an X-ray after the game.” He played the whole time. Bones were moving.
McCormick: If you were going to be a part of this team you had to retaliate, you had to show some toughness. Every day Oakley just kept hitting me over and over and over. I was getting very tired of it. One day in practice I got frustrated and I swung my arm around and hit him right in the mouth and split his lip. Guys grabbed him quick and it probably saved me from having a fight that I would not have wanted to be in. As they dragged him off, he had to go to the doctor and get stitches and he gave me a look like, “Tomorrow, you die.”
I didn’t sleep well that night. I kept thinking about when I first saw Charles. The next day he walked into the locker room and he saw me and he started walking right over to me. So I stood up like, “OK, here we go.” He said, “Have you seen the new Stallone movie?” I thought this is strange because he’s never talked to me before. That was like the first conversation we ever had. We started talking about it. I realized that until I stood up to him he didn’t respect me.
Checketts: I thought it really hurt us on the referee side of things and it put me very much at odds with David Stern. He thought we had changed the game and slowed it down and had this tough, physical confrontation style of defense. David was all about the good of the game. I knew that other owners were giving him a bad time about our team, about the way we played, and saying things like we were going to ruin basketball.
Van Gundy: The funny part about the next year, the theme, from a business standpoint, they would draw a lane, like a court, and then have the outline of dead bodies in the lane. That’s how physical we were. Come into the paint and pay the ultimate price. Now it got rejected, but it always stood out to me that there was a source of basketball truth into that.
P.S. McDaniel only played one season in New York. He paid $275,000 to buy out the final year of his contract but hoped the Knicks would re-sign him. They didn’t. He played five more NBA seasons. Mason went on to a solid NBA career, playing 10 more seasons (four more in New York), including an All-Star campaign with Miami in 2001.
Mason died in February 2015 from a reported heart attack. He and McDaniel had indeed become friends, spending time together while Mason played for the Hornets and McDaniel was retired, living in South Carolina.
McDaniel: I was just like, “Wow” — someone that I’ve known for quite a while and just kind of shocking. My ex called me because his ex and my ex are good friends, and so I got a call from her saying that Anthony Mason had passed. And then right after she called me, a couple hours later, it was all over the news. You just feel for the family. You ain’t thinking about the arguments you might have gotten into. You’re just making sure the family is OK.
― G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 17:54 (three years ago) link
SHORTLY AFTER DRAFTING him No. 25 in 2014, Houston Rockets officials took Clint Capela to a Houston Astros baseball game -- their usual initiation for draftees.
Capela had just turned 20, and was sensitive about his ability to communicate in English. He grew up in foster care in Switzerland before moving to France as a teenager to pursue basketball.
He had no idea what was going on in the game. Houston staffers explained balls and strikes. Just as Capela was getting it, one pitcher whipped the ball to first base -- a pick-off move. Why suddenly throw to a new place?
"It was boring," Capela says. "How long is the game? You don't even see a time."
The Rockets drafted Capela with the idea of stashing him overseas, sources say. They were conserving cap space to pursue Chris Bosh in the event LeBron James left the Miami Heat. Houston was hot on Bruno Caboclo, selected five spots before Capela, and even considered -- very briefly -- drafting Shabazz Napier to appeal to James after he had tweeted his affection for Napier, sources say.
Capela wanted the NBA right away. He spent almost his entire rookie season with the Rio Grande Valley Vipers in what is now the G League. The Vipers were a laboratory for Houston's analytics experiments. They played fast and launched record numbers of 3s -- potentially awkward for a paint-bound big man. In brief call-ups, Capela missed his first 19 NBA shots -- field goals and free throws.
"It was hard," he says. "Just to live by myself and try to get better at English. I was always looking for someone to speak French with, but in Houston there is not much of that."
Capela carried a notebook everywhere. Coaches spotted him writing in it: English phrases, basketball terminology, life advice. "You could see him learning every day," says Nevada Smith, then the Vipers' coach. Capela still has that notebook.
Capela understood the Rockets, with James Harden and Dwight Howard, were in win-now mode. "How can I be valuable now?" he wondered. He found the simplest answer: "I like to run."
And so it was that some 340 miles southeast of Houston, playing for the Vipers, Capela tried to beat his man down the floor every possession. He would screen and roll, screen and roll. He never demanded the ball, or any play calls.
Houston promoted him late in the season. Capela appeared in every playoff game as the Rockets fell to the Golden State Warriors in the 2015 conference finals. "It was a lot to take in," Capela says.
Capela started 35 games next season, sometimes next to Howard, and tried to serve as peacemaker between Howard and Harden as their relationship deteriorated. Some within the Rockets wondered if Howard was intentionally whiffing on picks for Harden or not setting as many as Harden wanted, sources say. Harden at one point asked the coaching staff if he could come off the bench to play more with Capela, sources said. (Those sources assumed Harden was being facetious, and really prodding the Rockets to start Capela alone.)
"I could kind of get them together," Capela says. "We were able to speak and laugh together. When I was around both of them, there were no issues with us talking."
But at 21, he had limited locker room heft. Capela often found himself the target of scoldings from veterans. One coach suggested Capela playfully defend himself by declaring he would not rebound until everyone relented.
With the Atlanta Hawks, he is suddenly an old head. Nate McMillan, Atlanta's coach, leans on Capela for scheduling advice -- when the team might need an off day, or a light film session.
Once shy in English, Capela is now a communicator -- in part to make sure the kind of animosity that festered in Houston never enters the Hawks' bloodstream. There have long been rumblings about tension between star guard Trae Young and big man John Collins, but the team and both principals insist they are exaggerated.
"In Houston, communication was a problem," Capela says. "They either didn't want to say something, or didn't know how. What I take from that is just go and say it. If you express yourself the right way and you are polite, it should work every time. Let's try to enjoy the grind."
Capela now shouts orders as the anchor of Atlanta's defense. "The communication has surprised me," Bogdan Bogdanovic says. "You really hear him." He has even started a regular Monopoly game at hotels with Danilo Gallinari, Solomon Hill, and members of the training staff -- physical board and everything.
Capela is producing at career-best levels: 15 points on almost 60% shooting, and a league-best 14.5 rebounds. He is No. 1 in both offensive and defensive rebounding rate, and a bulwark defending the basket. Capela ranks fourth in blocks, and keeps his rejections inbounds so the Hawks can retrieve them. Amid injuries, Capela has been Atlanta's constant.
"I don't think anyone expected [the Hawks] to be where we are, and Clint is probably the No. 1 reason," McMillan says.
Teammates say Capela should factor more into Defensive Player of the Year chatter. "Other guys talk about winning it, and even if they are deserving, I don't think that's the best way to do it," Bogdanovic says. "Clint doesn't talk, so he doesn't get enough credit."
The Hawks have allowed six fewer points per 100 possessions with Capela on the floor. Opponents have shot just 52% at the rim with Capela nearby -- a tick stingier than Joel Embiid, and only a little behind Rudy Gobert. Capela ranks second -- trailing Gobert -- in ESPN's defensive adjusted plus-minus.
Gaudy numbers are landing Capela on the national radar. To him, nothing has changed. He still runs, and runs, and demands none of the trappings.
"It's like, 'I've always been good and you all are just noticing,'" he says.
In just 30.3 minutes per game, Capela is averaging 15.3 points and career highs in rebounds (14.4) and blocks (2.1). "I don't think anyone expected [the Hawks] to be where we are," says head coach Nate McMillan. "And Clint is probably the No. 1 reason." AP Photo/Matt SlocumBACK-TO-BACK postseason losses to the Warriors left the Rockets worried Capela would always struggle against lineups with Draymond Green at center, sources say. The Rockets lost confidence in Capela's ability to switch onto Golden State's guards, though Capela's self-belief in that facet never wavered.
Capela hadn't shown the post game to punish switching defenses that often prevail in the playoffs. He'd averaged less than an assist per game. Rim-running centers were going out of style; how much of Capela's production could Houston find for cheap?
By 2019, Harden had shifted away from the pick-and-roll and toward isolations. That left Capela hanging around the rim, waiting for lobs.
It spoke to Harden's methodological nature. He prefers to survey the floor with a clear view, and shift the chess pieces around as he likes. A pick-and-roll invited unpredictability. A big man could trap, hang back, switch.
The introduction of Russell Westbrook last season cramped Houston's spacing. The Rockets jettisoned Capela, and went all-in on small ball. Capela had been dealing with a plantar fascia injury and a bone bruise in his heel when the Rockets sent the then-six-year vet to Houston. The trade stung.
"I was surprised, but I also felt the team was going downhill," Capela says. "I was scared I would never find a vibe like that again -- a winning team, in the playoffs every year."
The Hawks wanted a center to fortify their defense. They discussed Andre Drummond and Steven Adams, sources say. They thought elements of Capela's pick-and-roll partnership with Harden would translate to Young's game.
That would also mean an adjustment for Collins, Young's main screen-and-dive partner. Collins was on board with the trade, and invited the challenge of rounding out his perimeter game.
"Getting better players means you have to improve your game or take a step back," Collins says. "I didn't want to take a step back."
The injury and pandemic delayed chemistry building. Capela was diligent doing what rehab he could from home, team officials say. When Atlanta's performance staff could see Capela in person again, they put him through arduous drills -- including an exercise in which Capela had to traverse a sandbox using only his toes to grip the sand and drag himself forward. It is a method of rebuilding foot strength. It took Capela 10 minutes to cover a distance that required one or two normal strides.
In lockdown, Young and Capela spoke often. When the Hawks reconvened in September for their own bubble -- and then later for informal workouts -- Young and Capela hit it off. "They have basically become best friends," McMillan says.
"We have a real connection," Young says.
Young often chit-chats with opposing bigs in games, talking trash and dissecting pick-and-roll coverages. Upon hearing about the Capela trade, Young remembered their fun in-game jabs going both ways -- Young bragging about a floater that crested out of Capela's reach, Capela swatting Young's layup and boasting.
They developed a rhythm on the pick-and-roll, Capela feeling out the differences between Harden and Young.
"James is slow, processing," Capela says. "He can take his time. Trae is more of a speed guy with lots of touch."
Harden rarely attempted floaters. Young takes more than anyone.
CAPELA REALIZED THAT the combination of Young's speed and the tendency of defenses to trap him exposed offensive rebounding opportunities. Once Capela's man doubles Young, Capela zips into inside position -- and holds it until the ball hits the rim. Young launches so fast, Capela can root out rebounding territory without worrying about three-second calls.
"Sometimes I shoot the floater just because I know his man will contest," Young says. "If it doesn't go in, it's going to Clint. He's a beast."
Capela has become one of the league's best at one-handed tip-ins -- a skill he says he didn't prioritize until this season. Capela noticed how often he was fighting off defenders with one hand, and figured he might as well use the other for tips. He is uncanny tipping lefty. He has gotten much stronger in recent years -- Capela is part of Atlanta's regular postgame lifting group -- and is unusually mobile and well-balanced for a player his size, coaches say.
He remains a premiere lob-catcher -- a natural fit alongside Young. John Lucas, the longtime Houston Rockets assistant, often had Capela practice alley-ooping tennis balls, Capela says. He has also made great strides on non-dunk finishes in traffic.
Diving to the rim can be thankless; for every alley-oop, there might be dozens of possessions on which you don't touch the ball. The same is true for running the floor, and few bigs run harder than Capela. He has scored 13 baskets within 24 seconds of blocking an opponent's shot -- most in the league, per Elias Sports Bureau research.
But fans may not notice when those rim runs suck in the defense, and unlock open 3s for teammates.
"I am going to outwork you the whole game," Capela says. "Maybe it doesn't look that nice. Maybe it's not on social media. But it's efficient."
Anyone inflicting that much damage around the rim gets hacked, and free throw shooting has been Capela's bugaboo. His contract contains a $500,000 bonus if he hits at least 65% on foul shots, per league sources; he is at 57%, and has cracked 60% just once.
During Capela's first summer league in Las Vegas, they had him arrive at the gym at 6 a.m. and stay until he hit 500 free throws. At first, it took two hours. "Tough mornings," Capela says. He got it down to 45 minutes.
Capela's set shot can list left; the Rockets tried everything to correct it. Houston coaches sometimes sat Capela in a folding chair at the foul line with a hula hoop hanging above his head -- parallel to the floor -- and attached to a pole behind the chair. Capela had to release the ball through the hoop without banging into it. They sometimes had a coach stand behind Capela holding a ruler -- and asked Capela to shoot free throws without hitting it.
The Rockets scrapped shootarounds under Mike D'Antoni, but Capela showed up every game-day morning anyway. Lucas let Capela leave right away if he hit six free straight free throws.
Atlanta will trade some iffy free throw shooting for Capela's ferocious defense, which should earn some All-Defense consideration -- an uphill battle, with Gobert and either Embiid or Bam Adebayo favored for the two center slots.
For a bouncy dunker, it is notable how rarely Capela jumps on defense until it is time to chase a rebound. He crouches in his stance against the pick-and-roll, arms spread so wide he effectively guards two players at once. He locks eyes with the ball-handler, betraying nothing. That ball handler wants Capela to move first -- flinch, jump, lurch. He won't. That uncertainty unnerves all but the very best.
"I'm in your head," Capela says. "'Is he jumping or not?'"
If that ball handler settles for a floater, Capela may not even contest it. That judiciousness leaves him in ideal rebounding position. It makes up for Capela's eschewing textbook boxouts. He prefers to leap and pursue rebounds, but he can't do that if he's already airborne chasing blocks. Atlanta's defensive rebounding rate craters when Capela rests.
"In my first year, I was jumping all over the place," Capela says. "I learned you can't do that. If I jump and miss, [the other team] is ready to put it back in."
That does not mean Capela is a reluctant shot-blocker -- just a choosy one. He has a knack for verticality, and risks posterization to meet dunkers at the apex.
That left Capela on the wrong end of perhaps the dunk of the year -- Miles Bridges' epic throwdown that sent Capela stumbling toward the baseline. When he saw that, Smith, Capela's coach in Rio Grande, thought about something he used to tell Capela: "Guys who play hard will get dunked on. Guys who don't play hard won't, but they won't make it, either."
"I wonder if he remembers that," Smith says.
Capela plays like it. No one noticed, but Bridges' dunk materialized only after Capela erased a Terry Rozier drive at the rim -- leading to a second-chance scramble for the Charlotte Hornets.
"I'm not thinking, 'I want to look nice' or 'I want to make a nice move,'" Capela says. "I'm thinking about dominating the paint."
― i was too much listening to your accent (Spottie), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 15:25 (two years ago) link
great piece. capela's right about baseball
― Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 17:28 (two years ago) link
ILH board description used to reflect that wisdom
― sharpening the contraindications (Aimless), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 17:41 (two years ago) link
"I'm thinking about dominating the paint" is a phrase i promise to get into my next job interview
― Heez, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 18:16 (two years ago) link
can someone post z@ch l0we's awards columns :)
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31440899/nikola-jokic-joel-embiid-rudy-gobert-draymond-green-lowe-selects-2021-nba-award-winnershttps://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31458931/all-nba-all-defense-all-rookie-zach-lowe-names-2021-award-winners
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 18 May 2021 12:55 (two years ago) link
google australia free web proxypaste in the espn url except with .au after the .com like espn.com.auyou are an insider now
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 18 May 2021 13:13 (two years ago) link
Inside the Mavericks front office, Mark Cuban’s shadow GM is causing a rift with Luka DoncicTim Cato and Sam Amick 34m ago 50
In early February, during the second quarter of a home game against the Golden State Warriors, Luka Doncic carelessly turned over the ball and received feedback from a Dallas Mavericks employee he didn’t care for: Haralabos Voulgaris, a well-known sports gambler hired by team owner Mark Cuban in 2018.
Voulgaris, sitting with an open laptop in his typical courtside seat across from the Mavericks’ bench, motioned downward with his hands, which Doncic specifically interpreted as Voulgaris telling him to calm down, multiple team and league sources tell The Athletic. Doncic snapped back, telling Voulgaris, according to one source’s recollection, “Don’t fucking tell me to calm down.” The same sources say Voulgaris later professed that his motion wasn’t solely directed at Doncic, but regardless of intent, it only worsened an already inflamed relationship between the two.
Doncic, multiple league sources say, intends to sign the supermax extension — which he will be eligible for once named to this season’s All-NBA team — with Dallas, worth more than $200 million over five seasons after his rookie contract expires next summer. “I think you know the answer,” he said, smiling, when asked whether he would at last week’s exit interview. But a high-level power broker within the league says the Mavericks recognize that there’s urgency to build a contending team around Doncic after losing in the first round in each of the past two seasons. The clock is ticking.
Internally, there are concerns the front office’s dysfunction has hurt its ability to do so — and that poor relationships Doncic has with key members of the franchise, including Voulgaris, could impact his current desire to remain in Dallas long-term. The team’s most recent postseason defeat against the LA Clippers served as a direct indictment on the roster constructed around him. Can Mavericks management remedy that in time? Or, as some team sources fear, will they pay the price for the dysfunctional dynamics that exist in some corners of the organization?
Dallas announced Voulgaris’ hiring in the fall of 2018 with a title — director of quantitative research and development — that vastly understated his actual role. Multiple league and team sources tell The Athletic that Voulgaris has been the most influential voice within the Mavericks front office since joining the team, either initiating or approving virtually every transaction made over the past two seasons. Those same sources add that Voulgaris has frequently gone as far as scripting the starting lineups and rotations for longtime head coach Rick Carlisle.
That influence has spanned Doncic’s three seasons in Dallas. While he had been drafted prior to Voulgaris’ arrival — Donnie Nelson, the team’s longtime president of basketball operations, was the driving force behind trading up to acquire the Slovenian wunderkind, a process he described in detail to The Athletic last year — Cuban had sought out Voulgaris’ basketball advice in the years before putting him on the team’s payroll. As one team source says, “Mark Cuban is the most powerful person in the organization, but whoever he’s listening to is second.” Cuban was won over by Voulgaris’ vision: an analytics-driven spread pick-and-roll offense with Doncic as the focal point which he has tried implementing in the past seasons.
It’s unclear when the Cuban and Voulgaris relationship began, but their coming together is perhaps unsurprising given Cuban’s origin as a self-made tech billionaire whose first major purchase was the Mavericks. Voulgaris has never been shy about his desire to run a team. In an ESPN feature from 2013, Voulgaris is quoted as saying, “The whole process (of becoming a highly successful gambler) has led me to believe that I’d be able to put together a better team than almost any general manager in the league. If not maybe all.”
The way Voulgaris tells it — the ESPN feature is the only notable reporting ever focused on him, and he declined an interview request from The Athletic shortly after being hired — he began gambling on the NBA in the late 1990s and had made millions by the early 2000s. His success, he says, came in part from an instinctual reading of certain coaches. It finally failed him during the 2003-04 season, causing him to lose much of his gambling wealth and step away temporarily, only returning once he’d developed an analytics model that brought back his old edge. He says he did exactly that, his new model beating the odds at a rate higher than five percent. In 2009, he gave up gambling again to consult for an unnamed NBA franchise. The advisory role lasted one season; he returned to his previous life afterward and began publicly promoting himself. In the coming years, he became a well-known presence in the basketball world.
Voulgaris spent a limited amount of time around the Mavericks during his first season of employment, attending about one-quarter of the team’s games. He attended fewer games the following season, but his imprint on the team’s roster grew substantially that offseason. It was Voulgaris who initiated the team’s acquisitions of Seth Curry and Delon Wright, with multiple sources telling The Athletic that Voulgaris believed Wright should start next to Doncic. “He was the only person that believed that,” one team source says. Wright did start the season opener before being moved to a full-time bench role the following game, barely playing in the team’s first-round defeat in the 2020 postseason. He was traded that offseason.
Because Voulgaris’ influence was greater than his official role, those within the front office — and executives around the league who interacted with them — were often confused about who actually held power. “We had two general managers,” a team source says. Nelson remained the team’s president of basketball operations, a role he has held since 2005, and other executives and agents continued largely communicating with him or Cuban regarding personnel matters. Nelson continued to spearhead major moves, including trades for Kristaps Porzingis and Tim Hardaway Jr. in 2019, Josh Richardson in 2020 and J.J. Redick in 2021. But team sources say Voulgaris was supportive of the transactions — or explicitly approved them.
Multiple league and team sources point to the 2020 draft as a particularly egregious example of Voulgaris’ power, an evening one source described as “embarrassing.” Most members of the scouting department joined the team’s war room remotely through Zoom and were surprised when Voulgaris, attending in person, didn’t consult them for either of the team’s first two selections (Josh Green and Tyrell Terry) despite disagreements they held with at least one of the players he picked.
“What did (he) sell to Mark to make him believe (he) can do this?” asks one source with an intimate knowledge of the situation. “Nobody knows.”
It marked another throughline of Voulgaris’ tenure with the Mavericks: that his personality and decision making has steadily irritated and exasperated the team’s front office employees and players over the course of the three seasons he’s been employed. “He doesn’t know how to talk to people,” that same source says.
That’s best exemplified by Dallas’ franchise player disliking him. Doncic’s strained relationship with Voulgaris predated their incident in February, multiple sources say. It wasn’t the only incident, either. This season, Voulgaris attended his first game in mid January, frequently appearing courtside at home and also traveling with them on the road in the months that followed. In mid-April, during the final minute of a home defeat to the New York Knicks, Voulgaris was seen on the game’s broadcast footage standing up and leaving with about 45 seconds remaining. While the Mavericks were trailing by 10 points at the time, they cut the deficit to six and extended the game seven more possessions before eventually losing.
Doncic noticed Voulgaris’ early departure. In the locker room after the game, multiple league and team sources say he told teammates he viewed Voulgaris leaving before the game’s conclusion as him quitting on them. Voulgaris would not attend another game the rest of the year.
Multiple team sources confirm Voulgaris remained involved in the team’s gameplans and in-game adjustments in a remote role. But Voulgaris, who earlier this season appeared likelier than not to wrest further control over the front office and perhaps even drive out Nelson entirely, now heads into a summer with his contract set to expire and uncertainty surrounding his future.
When reached for comment on Monday, Cuban defended Voulgaris’ involvement. “I really like what Bob brings to the table. He does a great job of supporting Rick and the front office with unique data insights.”
Cuban added: “Bob has a great grasp of AI and the opportunities it create for gaining an advantage. Which is important to me. But he isn’t any more influential than any other data source on the team.”
Voulgaris declined to comment for this story when reached on Sunday.
Doncic’s relationship with his head coach, Rick Carlisle, has been publicly scrutinized since joining his team. It’s expected Carlisle will return next season, multiple league sources say, something Cuban publicly voiced support for last week shortly after the first round defeat.
“Let me tell you how I look at coaching,” he told ESPN. “You don’t make a change to make a change. Unless you have someone that you know is much, much, much better, the grass is rarely greener on the other side.”
Multiple sources were surprised to see Cuban’s prompt backing of Carlisle, however, even though Cuban’s support for Carlisle has hardly wavered over the past decade. During the season, it was believed Carlisle’s future could be reconsidered following the season, partly due to a belief Doncic had tuned him out.
“It was very much up in the air,” one source with intimate knowledge of the situation said.
Sources say some players have been frustrated with Carlisle after they lost playing time despite doing exactly what they felt he had asked of them, and for stiff rotation patterns, the latter of which they viewed — correctly, team sources confirm — as being dictated directly to him by Voulgaris. Early on, Doncic also disliked Carlisle’s timeouts and frequent calling of plays.
But Carlisle, who’s “adaptable as a motherfucker,” as one league source put it, began to modify his coaching style as a way of relieving some of the pressure from this sensitive situation. Beyond Carlisle’s obvious coaching acumen, he has always been able and willing to, in essence, read the room when it came to which personal battles he could win and which ones he couldn’t. This was no different.
Doncic’s greatness, so evident so early on, clearly compelled Carlisle to consider the changing hoops politics at hand. Since being hired in May of 2008, Carlisle has had his fair share of friction with key players, in large part because of his well-known tendency to be controlling. But Rajon Rondo, this was not.
In truth, it was far closer to the difficult dynamic that he’d successfully navigated with then-point guard Jason Kidd en route to winning the franchise’s first and only title in 2011. It took an intervention of sorts to get through that friction back then, when then-Mavericks assistant coaches Tim Grgurich, Dwane Casey and Terry Stotts stepped in to tell Carlisle that he needed to loosen the reins on Kidd. In the end, of course, it was a wise and necessary move.
The championship took Carlisle’s credibility to another level in those coming years. He was, with good reason, virtually untouchable when it came to the job insecurities that most coaches face. Such is life when you reach the NBA’s mountaintop for a franchise that has never been there before.
But as Doncic started to look more and more like a modern-day Dirk Nowitzki these past three seasons — the kind of once-in-a-generation player who the Mavericks could build around for the next two decades — the landscape that surrounded Carlisle began to change. And Carlisle, quite clearly, decided to change along with it.
“You can’t win against the next Nowitzki,” one source said.
Doncic has a healthy relationship with the Mavericks organization at large. League sources say he angled to be drafted by the team in 2018, and he has been particularly complimentary of his relationship with Nowitzki, whose final season coincided with Doncic’s first. Those feelings could change if the team’s postseason struggles continue, as the Mavericks haven’t advanced past the first round since their 2011 championship run. It’s not that Doncic’s situation with the team is at a critical inflection point right now. Multiple team sources simply fear that it’s heading that direction.
Those concerns mostly center on Cuban and the decisions he makes regarding who he trusts and imbues with power. Sometimes, it’s examples like Voulgaris, a sports gambler with no league experience being given near total control of the team’s roster. Other times, it’s the relationships he doesn’t sever: The Mavericks’ front office has come to be known around the league for its long-existing power structure that, Voulgaris aside, has barely changed.
Doncic has provided the Mavericks a chance to return to prominence. He’s a generational star the team was fortunate to draft, seamlessly taking the mantle from the franchise player before him. But after beginning another offseason sooner than hoped for, the focus falls upon the organization around him: on how the dynamic that existed over the past seasons was allowed to operate in such a haphazard manner, and whether it can be fixed before it’s too late.
― call all destroyer, Monday, 14 June 2021 15:56 (two years ago) link
the only notable thing in there to me is that doncic doesn’t like voulgaris. the rest of the stuff — bob’s influence in the front office in particular and his butting heads with colleagues, seems run of the mill for an NBA franchise
― k3vin k., Monday, 14 June 2021 17:56 (two years ago) link
On the Miami Heat, reloading again with Kyle Lowry and P.J. Tucker -- how they keep doing this, and what they look like for next season: https://t.co/7Fm8AW1s97— Zach Lowe (@ZachLowe_NBA) August 3, 2021
anyone have espn+ ?
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 3 August 2021 17:54 (two years ago) link
IT'S FITTING THAT the Miami Heat's latest all-in reload involved sending out Goran Dragic in their mammoth sign-and-trade for Kyle Lowry -- the first major domino of this NBA free-agency period.
It was Miami's flipping two first-round picks to acquire Dragic (on an expiring contract) at the 2015 trade deadline that set off the first round of fearful snickering among rivals -- clucking that Pat Riley was mortgaging the team's future because that future would belong to his successor. The clucking was always laced with anxiety: Somehow, the Heat -- slick, beachy, with a friendly tax regime -- would climb out of whatever hole Riley dug.
Three years later, it appeared as if the Heat might be buried without a shovel. Chris Bosh's blood clot issues upended the promising 2015-16 Heat featuring Bosh, Dwyane Wade and Dragic. The Heat struck out on Kevin Durant in 2016 and then Gordon Hayward the next offseason, and responded by re-signing their own free agents to huge deals: Hassan Whiteside, Tyler Johnson, Kelly Olynyk, James Johnson, Dion Waiters.
As the calendar flipped to 2018, they all looked like cap-clogging overpays whose contracts would be hard to move. Justise Winslow, the manna-from-heaven pick that represented Miami's salvation, was injured and developing unevenly. Their quiver of first-round picks was half empty.
When I spent a week in Miami that January, those in and around the franchise were as uncertain about their path forward as I had ever seen or heard them. They were determined, hopeful, but unsure. On the Lowe Post podcast last year, Dan Le Batard, who knows Riley well, recalled strolling Heat headquarters around that time with Riley and passing walls adorned with photos of Waiters and Whiteside. "He, like, snorts in disdain," Le Batard said, "and he just blurted, 'Our so-called leaders.' And I'm like, 'Oof. This is not a good place for these people to be.'"
Two years later, they were in the Finals -- one of the greatest short-term turnarounds ever executed from an on-paper position of weakness. The Heat nailed late lottery picks (Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro) that usually yield league-average players at best; turned undrafted guys into starters and key contributors (the newly ultra-wealthy Duncan Robinson, Kendrick Nunn, Derrick Jones Jr.); and swapped one second-round hit (Josh Richardson) into the best star that was realistically available to them -- Jimmy Butler, about to sign a mega-extension that will take him into his mid-30s, sources said.
They caught some breaks, as any team does amid a successful retool. The Butler situation with the Philadelphia 76ers went haywire. Teams passed on Adebayo and Herro in favor of worse players. The Heat got off a lot of those bad contracts with minimal pain thanks to injuries and desperation in trading partners, and the Memphis Grizzlies' lust for Winslow -- with the Heat sending out James Johnson and Waiters in that deal, and somehow netting Solomon Hill, Andre Iguodala, and Jae Crowder.
Crowder was the last puzzle piece that made sense of the 2020 Heat: the small-ball power forward with enough size, toughness, and 3-point shooting to unlock Adebayo-at-center lineups that had two-way balance. The Heat in 2020 demurred on one last trade for Danilo Gallinari, wary of committing too much future cap space over too many years -- and wagering Crowder and Iguodala would perform.
The same shielding of cap space cost them Crowder, who signed a long-term deal with the Phoenix Suns after Miami's Finals run. The Heat last season never found a replacement, toggling between imperfect solutions. Makeshift lineups were either too small, with Butler at power forward and multiple below-average perimeter defenders, or lacking in shooting.
AP Photo/Lynne SladkyONCE THE HEAT finalized their deal for Lowry on Monday, the biggest remaining question about their roster -- perhaps aside from depth -- was whom Erik Spoelstra would start at power forward. Could they find another Crowder? (The other big question following Lowry's signing -- bigger than the game of point guard roulette going around the league -- was this: What is Philadelphia's backup plan after missing out on Lowry for the second time in four months? Are they just going to stand pat and wait out the Ben Simmons market?)
Candidates flew off the board: JaMychal Green, Jeff Green, Nicolas Batum, others.
And then Miami capped its day with a bombshell: stealing P.J. Tucker -- switchable, mean, still trucking along -- from the postseason starting five of the NBA champion Milwaukee Bucks.
Those Bucks, of course, obliterated the Heat in the first-round of the 2021 playoffs with an emphatic, avenging sweep. That humiliation was catnip to skeptics who dismissed Miami's 2020 Finals appearance as the fluky product of the bubble and the restarted pandemic season from hell.
There is some truth to the notion that Miami was well-suited to the isolated, all-basketball-all-the-time setting of the Orlando, Florida, bubble. But three of the final four teams from Orlando trudged through unremarkable seasons, with the fourth -- the Denver Nuggets -- slumping away once injuries destroyed its guard rotation. (They were exhausted too.) The Heat in 2020 were the only postseason team to take more than one game from the champion Los Angeles Lakers. They would have a hard time reaching the Finals again, but that didn't mean they weren't good or deserving.
2021 NBA offseason
The NBA's 2021 free-agent signing period has begun, just days after the 2021 NBA draft.
• Latest free agency and trade news and buzz• 10 questions that will define the offseason• Biggest decisions for all 30 teams• Team-by-team FA lists for 2021 and 2022• Tradable draft assets for every teamBut the Heat recognized the status quo wasn't good enough, with Milwaukee having proven itself on the biggest stage and the Brooklyn Nets looming as title favorites entering the 2021-22 season. And so they did their best to rekindle the magic of 2020.
Tucker is a downgrade from Crowder. He is five years older, and starting to show his age. Tucker only launches from the corners, and his mark on those shorter 3s dropped to 34.7% last season -- and 31.4% during a postseason in which he was a total non-threat. The spacing will look cramped at times with Butler, Tucker, and Adebayo on the floor.
Crowder might be the league's streakiest shooter, prone to some ugly backboard bonks, but he is willing to chuck from anywhere and hits at about the same accuracy from the corners and the wings. He's nimbler than Tucker with the ball, quicker as an extra-pass guy.
But Tucker showed in hounding Durant in the second round of the playoffs that he still has much to give on defense when the stakes are high. A well-timed hot streak from the corners could swing a playoff series. No one remembers you shooting 31% on corner 3s for the season if you go 6-of-10 in the right pair of playoff games.
The Heat hope the upgrade from Dragic to Lowry compensates for any drop-off from Crowder to Tucker. Miami was able to pull this sign-and-trade because it coaxed Dragic back last offseason on a two-year, $37 million deal with a team option in Year 2 -- an overpayment in annual salary in exchange for flexibility. The Heat struck the same agreement with Iguodala.
HOW CAN MIAMI keep doing this? Some of it lies in its inherent advantages -- the lack of a state income tax in Florida, and the attractiveness of living in Miami. But it goes beyond that. Players who thrive there grow to love the franchise. Even having been cast aside, Dragic adores the Heat, sources said. Serious veterans appreciate Riley's commitment to winning.
"We never once spoke about Miami as a city," Butler's agent, Bernie Lee, told me last year in explaining Butler's desire to be there. "Obviously it's an amazing place with amazing people, but Jimmy wasn't going there for the beach. Since he's gotten there, I think we have gone out to eat less than 10 times and one of them was the Super Bowl. We didn't even talk about the tax advantages. The only questions he asked were of the background of the people involved and how they would build out the team."
A healthy Lowry is almost a perfect fit next to Butler and Adebayo. He is a more accurate and prolific 3-point shooter than Dragic, and a much stronger defender. Lineups featuring any two of Dragic, Robinson, and Herro had two spots for predatory opposing offenses to pick at. Lowry vaporizes one of those spots. A closing five of Lowry, Robinson, Butler, Tucker, and Adebayo is formidable. Against some opponents, it will be safe to exchange Herro for Tucker.
There is so much improvisational creativity to Lowry's game -- so much more than rote high pick-and-rolls. He can do plenty of that, of course; the Lowry-Adebayo dance will be an important part of Miami's arsenal, and perhaps a bulwark when Butler rests.
Monday through Friday, host Pablo Torre brings you an inside look at the most interesting stories at ESPN, as told by the top reporters and insiders on the planet. ListenLowry bobs and weaves in the midrange, cutting randomly, working an impromptu give-and-go, setting unexpected screens, sneaking in for offensive rebounds. Butler and Adebayo live in that space from 20 feet and in. The Lowry/Butler/Adebayo trio overflows with ad-libbing IQ. All three are good to great passers. Adebayo is emerging as a very good midrange shooter. His bully-ball game against switches is coming. Butler is reliable from midrange, in part because of his ability to draw fouls and double-teams.
Cleverness and versatility in tight confines can overcome so-so spacing. Miami's offense is going to sing in the dead zone of the midrange. Robinson's ability to attract two defenders will often give Miami's three stars a head start, some territorial advantage, when the ball reaches them in the midrange. Robinson has grown as a one- and two-dribble pick-and-roll ball handler, and his handoff game with Adebayo is lethal in pulling two defenders toward the arc -- opening easy slip passes.
Lowry is a nasty screener, and he will set ball screens for anyone and everyone: Butler, Robinson, Adebayo -- whatever presents the most danger to the opponent. The diversity of the Heat's offense -- how they seem to run multiple systems within the same possession -- is hard for opponents to adjust to. It's just a little different -- unpredictable, always moving, hard to grasp. Lowry amplifies all of that.
THERE ARE LOTS of questions before putting Miami on the level of Brooklyn and Milwaukee. Lowry is 35, and dropped off a hair last season. Maybe it was the inevitable malaise of playing in Tampa Bay instead of Toronto, and for a team that never recovered from a huge bout with the virus in the middle of the season. Small guards don't tend to age well, but Lowry fits some of the characteristics of one we might expect to buck that trend: smart, stout physically, ace shooter, and someone who didn't pile up as much wear and tear as a reserve early in his career.
Still: Lowry's age places this nucleus on a short, urgent timetable. They have to win immediately. Even minor slippage from Lowry torpedoes that plan.
They are also somewhat shallow. They re-signed Dewayne Dedmon, Gabe Vincent, and Max Strus late Monday, and might be too close to the hard cap -- triggered by acquiring Lowry via sign-and-trade -- now to retain Kendrick Nunn.
The Heat had talks with Bobby Portis, sources said, and the Portis-Adebayo frontcourt would have offered an intriguing combination of shooting and size. Portis would have been Miami's new and probably superior version of Meyers Leonard and Olynyk -- center-ish bigs the Heat paired with Adebayo (another center) because Adebayo can defend anyone, allowing Spoelstra to hide weaker tag-team partners.
Portis re-signed with the Bucks instead. Precious Achiuwa, a promising second-year player, is headed to Toronto as part of the Lowry trade. KZ Okpala is perpetually almost ready.
The Heat will find a player or two on the minimum. (They have no other choice at this point.) Herro disappointed in his sophomore season after rollicking through the bubble, but he's just 21. Development is not linear. A leap in Year 3 is possible.
The Bucks just won the title, and the Nets looked as if they were going to roll there before James Harden and Kyrie Irving got injured. Losing Tucker to the Heat hurts Milwaukee, but you probably can't put the Heat higher than No. 3 in the East at this moment -- and both the Atlanta Hawks and Sixers would have something to say about that.
But the Heat are better today than they were 24 hours ago, and they didn't give up all that much to revamp their team. If things go right, they'll have a puncher's chance in the East. What they really surrendered was future cap flexibility in committing big long-term money to Lowry and Butler as they age.
Did you expect anything less from Riley? If you get Butler and reach the Finals, this is what you do. And history suggests that if the hole gets deep, Riley will find a golden shovel.
― pure rim rest (Spottie), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 20:01 (two years ago) link
Just getting ahead of the inevitable request:
Let’s be honest. This past NBA season missed one thing: Klay Thompson.
So The Athletic called up a dozen of Thompson’s teammates, former teammates and coaches and asked for their best stories.
Matt Barnes, guard: We had just won the Western Conference Finals. Everyone was enjoying everything, talking and eating and having a drink. And here’s Klay with two 9-year-olds at his locker, teaching them how to make paper airplanes and flying them across the locker room.
Jarrett Jack, guard: Only Klay, man. Only Klay.
Steve Kerr, coach: When I got the job, first thing I did was I called every player. Klay wasn’t responding to me. So I called Bob (Myers) and said, “Bob, I’m really worried that Klay, maybe he’s angry about the coaching change. He won’t call me back.” Bob just started laughing. He just said, “Welcome to Klay’s world.”
Marreese Speights, forward: We’d go to a city and he’d just hop off the bus and go to a CVS or Walgreens with a thousand people outside.
Barnes: That’s the randomness of Klay.
Lachlan Penfold, head of physical performance: All he wanted to do was shoot hoops and play with his dog.
Speights: He’d talk about his dog all the time. Or the Bahamas.
Jerry DeGregorio, assistant coach: It’s impossible to know him and not love him.
Festus Ezeli, center: Because Klay is very, very … pure.
Barnes: Klay is just Klay. He’s like a national treasure.
James Michael McAdoo, forward: Shaun Livingston would always say: “Never change, Klay.”
Jack: We’re in Atlanta and we wanted to hang out at a nightclub. We’re all there, texting Klay, and he’s like, “Where are you guys at?” I’m like, “Yo, we’re over here.” He’s like, “Cool, I’m about to meet you guys.” So Klay comes, but when he walks in, he walks in by himself. I’m like, “Yo, man, how did you get here?” He’s like, “Yeah, man, I was hanging out at this bar, some people asked me where I was going, they said they were going to the same place, so, shit, I just hopped in the cab and split a cab with them.” I’m like, “What people?” He’s like, “That couple over there.” And it was like two married, middle-aged White people.
Speights: We were all in Miami one trip. So we all go to dinner and then everybody goes their separate ways. We all come back to the hotel, and some kind of way, Klay’s in the room. He comes out and his whole eye (is bruised). So it’s like: “Klay, what happened? We just got back. How did you do that?”
Ezeli: Sometimes he’s a little air-headed.
Speights: So we looked at him and were like, “Klay, what happened? Somebody beat you up or something?” He’s like, “Nah, I tripped over the dresser and hit my head on it.”
Ezeli: Never change was both good and bad.
McAdoo: In the preseason we would go to San Diego. We would always stay at ridiculous hotels. One time I went out to the beach. Took my towel and went out there and was just taking in the sunset. So I’m just laying down there, and out of nowhere I see Klay down there by the water, just walking, by himself. Just going for a nice healthy walk right along the shore.
Barnes: He’s unapologetically him.
Mike Brown, assistant coach: I know the manager of one of those restaurants over there on the water. The Ramp. Klay and I were talking and he was like, “Mike, you know anywhere I could dock my boat?” I’m like, “Yeah, I know the manager of The Ramp.” He asked if I could connect them. I was like, “Sure,” but I was still in the process of that.
Benjamin Giler, general manager of The Ramp: Klay was kind of sneaking around. He’s this big tall guy, hella athletic. And he was kind of just walking around, and we were like, “Klay?” And he was like, “Well, yeah, it’s me.” He was like, “Who do I talk to about getting a spot? This would be great for me if I could just go to games from here.”
Brown: Literally the next practice, Klay comes up: “Oh, hey, Mike, appreciate it!” I’m like, “For what?” He’s like, “Yeah, yeah, I parked my boat there.” He parked his boat there without asking.
Jason Thompson, center: I was going to San Jose with Klay, and I wasn’t sure if we wanted to drive up there and follow each other. He’s like, “Nah, man, let me know where you’re at and I’ll come get you and we’ll go together.” So then he was like, “Yo, I’m here.” I’m living in an apartment complex where they have valet, so he pulls up and I’m like, “Yo, where you at?” At this time, I think he had just signed his second deal. I didn’t know what car he drove. He’s like, “Yo, bro, I didn’t drive, I’m in an Uber.” So I’m looking for like a black car and a Prius is just chilling in the front. I’m like, “That’s probably one of the neighbors.” He sticks his head out and is like, “Yo, bro. You ready?”
Speights: He don’t care about no Uber Black or none of that.
Charles Jenkins, guard: Our rookie year, we used to go out quite a bit. Just in the Bay. My brother was there, and my brother is a big party guy. So there was one time, I was just starting the car and my brother had to run back upstairs to get a change of shirt or something. I just remember him running back out full speed like, “Fuck driving, Klay’s gonna take us. Klay’s going, too.” I was like, “Whatever.” I went to the front of the building and Klay was in a stretch limo.
Nate Robinson, guard: This one time, me, Klay, Brandon Rush, we all had like telepathic powers. The club was so loud, and I looked at Klay and I looked at Brandon Rush and it was like we could hear each other’s thoughts without speaking. It was so hot in the club. I just looked at Klay, and he just looked at me, and we just got up. “Aight.” And we just got up and went outside. It was like we all connected at one time, and we all felt it.
Chris DeMarco, assistant coach: We had a road practice, got back to the hotel and he wanted to take a lap because it was New York City. He wanted to walk around, grab something to eat. We went to lunch and then on the way back, a reporter stopped us as we were walking by and asked us if we wanted to do an interview on scaffolding. I was in the middle of saying “No, we don’t live here,” and Klay just goes, “Yes.”
Kevon Looney, forward: He did the interview like he was just some local citizen.
DeMarco: He just sat there and was giving thoughtful answers on the subject.
David West, forward (from Instagram Live): The night he had 60, Klay had missed shootaround.
McAdoo: Like, he overslept.
West: He probably said like five words the whole day before that game. Then just came out, let off, and didn’t do no dribbling.
Scott Machado, guard: He scored 60 when he only dribbled the ball 14 times.
DeGregorio: He had the ball in his hands a total of 90 seconds that game. Think about it.
West: That was the craziest — all he did was catch and shoot the ball. He didn’t make no moves.
McAdoo: That was one of those moments where Shaun was like, “Never change, Klay.”
Penfold: He doesn’t give a fuck about anything, except basketball and his dog, basically.
Ezeli: Klay and Rocco. Wow.
McAdoo: Rocco was always with him.
Ezeli: When I got drafted and started hanging out with Klay was when he first got Rocco. He would always want to spend time with the dog. He didn’t even really like hanging out with people. I’d be like, “What are you doing?” He’d be like, “Hanging out with Rocco.” I thought it was (a person) at first before I met the dog. I was like, “For real?”
McAdoo: He’d be like, “Yeah, I took Rocco down to Ocean Beach and let him run around.” I always used to get a kick out of that because I have labradors. Rocco is not a Labrador. He’s a bulldog. He’s not really a beach dog. But he’d still take him.
DeGregorio: Klay’s first contract, they were negotiating, and in the middle he had to leave. He was like, “Guys, I have to go home now, I got to go home and feed my dog.”
Looney: We were in the playoffs. I think we were about to go to the conference finals. Rocco just walked into the locker room. He went into the shower while everybody was showering, just walking around.
McAdoo: It was nothing for Rocco to show up at the practice facility.
Looney: I’m like, “We just let dogs just come into the locker room, walking around, chilling, wandering into the showers during the playoffs?” I remember (Anderson) Varejao telling me, “Hey, nowhere else in the NBA could this happen. Only Klay.”
Jenkins: Random times, he would just follow through. I would be at his house and we’d be playing video games or fucking around and listening to music, and he would randomly just shoot without a ball.
Speights: There’s a reason he has so much success.
Jenkins: One time we were outside of a nightclub, just waiting for someone to come let us in, and he was doing like form shooting.
DeGregorio: His rookie season, there was a game where Klay took too many 3s for Monta Ellis’s liking. During the next timeout, I remember Monta Ellis just ripped into this rookie: “You’re taking too many shots. Pass the ball. You’re just a rook.” That type of deal. I remember watching Klay the whole time, and he never flinched. He never wavered. The very next offensive possession, ball swings, goes to Klay. He takes the first shot and makes a 3. I’m thinking, “This kid is an ice-cold killer.”
Ezeli: One game, I think we were up three with about 15 seconds left and somebody threw the ball to Klay. At this point, you just hold the ball, right? As soon as it touches his hands, Klay shoots it. I can’t remember if he made it or not, but I remember his conversation with Draymond afterwards. Draymond was like, “Yo, what were you doing?! Why would you shoot that?” And Klay said, “Dog, they pay me to shoot the ball.”
DeGregorio: I remember our interns used to call him Dexter, you know, the serial killer. He was unflappable.
Ezeli: The first 10 games of that season, I remember Klay struggling. Like, he couldn’t throw it in the ocean. He was shooting so poorly at the start of that season, one game he shot it so bad and he was so angry at the end of that game that he left the arena.
Jack: I’m usually one of the last people out of the locker room, and I look and Klay’s clothes are still hanging in the locker.
Jenkins: I was just hearing, “Klay’s gone.” I was like, “How?” I think he left before Coach got there.
Jack: So the next day, when I come in, I talked to the equipment guy. He’s like, “You won’t believe this shit. Remember when I asked you where Klay was and asked you about his uniform? So apparently Klay was so mad, or so frustrated, that he left the arena and drove home in his jersey.”
Ezeli: Like, his whole jersey and everything.
Jack: So now, mind you, this is early Klay so there’s a bunch of guys that live in the same building. I’m like, “Man, when y’all got home, bro, did you see him?” They’re like, “Man, Klay was on the elevator, game jersey, game shorts, game shoes.”
Joe Boylan, assistant coach: I remember thinking: “That’s awesome. I’m glad he cares so much.”
Shaun Livingston, guard: We were toward the end of that first (title) season. We’ve already made the playoffs. We may have already clinched seeding. There is nothing really on the line. I think we were out in Phoenix or somewhere. We end up winning, but Klay missed the game. It might’ve been the first game all season he missed. He was out due to injury. So we’re all huddled up postgame in the locker room and he stops us and says, “Guys, I just want to apologize for not suiting up tonight. My bad. I take great pride in not missing any games.” I remember looking at Steph. I remember looking at Andre. Those were our captains. I’m like, “Is this dude serious?”
Ezeli: He held himself accountable so much. Nobody ever needed to tell Klay what he needed to do.
McAdoo: If there was a guy on our team that had previously played for the other team, Klay would always say, “They didn’t want you!”
Brown: If we’re about to play the Cavaliers … “They didn’t want ya, Mike B!”
McAdoo: Literally every time, everyone would laugh.
Kerr: He does his homework, too. He knows every single guys’ connection to every team. One time we were in Denver and we get done going through the scouting report and he goes, “They didn’t want you, Mike Brown!” Mike was a video coordinator in Denver under Bernie Bickerstaff in the late ’90s, mid-90s. Mike was like, “Wait, what? How’d you know that?” I think he goes through the game notes.
Zaza Pachulia, center: We play cards on the plane. I always enjoyed his reaction when he gets busted. I had a pretty cool moment where he had to write a check for me to pay off. … That’s why he’s special. Who can imagine Klay Thompson writing a check? He pulled out his checkbook and wrote it right in front of me.
Ezeli: The other day, he got really into the conversation about like the history of trade, like something where he was like, “Oh, yeah in Japan and Germany…”
Barnes: His randomness is what makes him great.
Ezeli: He just started spouting off history. I’m like, “Dude, what?!? Why do you even know this?”
DeGregorio: The beauty of him: He understands what he likes, he understands who he is, and he doesn’t waver from it.
Kerr: He really, really cares about people and the team and the world around him.
Ezeli: That’s just Klay. Never change.
― DJI, Monday, 23 August 2021 15:47 (two years ago) link
haha i was just gonna post that in the basketblolz thread
― pure rim rest (Spottie), Monday, 23 August 2021 15:52 (two years ago) link
Nate Robinson, guard: This one time, me, Klay, Brandon Rush, we all had like telepathic powers.
― think “Gypsy-Pixie” and misspelled. (We are a white family.) (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 August 2021 15:56 (two years ago) link
the cab-splitting story is so good lol
― call all destroyer, Monday, 23 August 2021 16:30 (two years ago) link
a reporter stopped us as we were walking by and asked us if we wanted to do an interview on scaffolding.
I'm imagining the "reporter" was John Wilson.
― Taliban! (PBKR), Monday, 23 August 2021 17:10 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t40e3kaHmrs
― pure rim rest (Spottie), Monday, 23 August 2021 17:13 (two years ago) link
amazingklay should do some videos with John Wilson
― think “Gypsy-Pixie” and misspelled. (We are a white family.) (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 August 2021 17:17 (two years ago) link
in terms of hoops, this:
Scott Machado, guard: He scored 60 when he only dribbled the ball 14 times.DeGregorio: He had the ball in his hands a total of 90 seconds that game. Think about it.
― it is to laugh, like so, ha! (Aimless), Tuesday, 24 August 2021 03:33 (two years ago) link
Gersson Rosas’ dismissal just days before the Minnesota Timberwolves opened training camp is stunning on its face, a change at the top of basketball operations as the team begins a critical season and is in discussions to try to trade for a disgruntled star to bolster its chances.
It is also the culmination of months of evaluation by ownership and the franchise’s high-ranking officials about the state of Rosas’ leadership and the direction of the franchise under his watch. Ownership has listened to a vocal contingent of staffers express concern about the way Rosas conducted his business, sources told The Athletic, and finally came to the conclusion that they could not wait any longer to address the situation.
Some described Rosas’ reign as dysfunctional, with tension rippling through the front office, according to some sources. Outside of it, rival team executives and agents would complain about how Rosas treated relationships and negotiations. The complaints reached as high as the ownership level over the last several weeks, lending a perception of inevitability to the end of Rosas’ tenure.
Rosas was just days away from starting his third season as leader of the team’s basketball operations, but the Wolves informed him on Wednesday that he would not continue. Rosas’ teams went 42-94 in those two seasons, missing the playoffs both years.
“Today, the Minnesota Timberwolves parted ways with President of Basketball Operations Gersson Rosas,” owner Glen Taylor said in a statement. “As an organization, we remain committed to building a winning team that our fans and city can be proud of.”
Sources said Taylor made the 90-minute drive from Mankato to team headquarters in Minneapolis to take part in the meeting with Rosas personally on Wednesday, notable for an owner who has in the past sometimes left moves like this to those who work underneath him.
Text messages were left by The Athletic for Rosas seeking comment that have not yet been returned. The Athletic also reached out to Taylor for further comment.
The Timberwolves named executive vice president of basketball operations Sachin Gupta as their new overseer of basketball operations, making him the first person of Indian origin to run a franchise’s basketball operations. Minnesota is expected to have a full search process, but team officials are fond of Gupta and will provide him a chance in the No. 1 role, sources said.
It is hard to imagine the timing of a move of this magnitude being more challenging. The Timberwolves are set to host media day on Monday and start training camp the next day and are in the middle of trying to make a play for 76ers star Ben Simmons, who wants to be traded. It also shocked Timberwolves players, including franchise star Karl-Anthony Towns.
Prior to the announcement, The Athletic had spent the last several weeks investigating the working environment under Rosas and interviewed numerous sources on the current staff about the situation after learning of mounting discontent. Some said Rosas worked his staff long hours without giving much input into the decision-making process. Others took issue with decisions made on personnel moves and trades, including the light protections on a first-round draft pick that landed them D’Angelo Russell from Golden State, Rosas’ signature move.
“It’s hard,” one member of the organization who followed Rosas to Minnesota after he was hired said. “He’s not who I thought he was.”
Rosas also had several backers in the organization, who said the current issues they were facing were more related to the pandemic and the stress brought on by the ownership change than Rosas’ leadership style.
Some of the issues were exacerbated this summer when Rosas and Gupta butted heads over Rosas’ decision to block Gupta from making a lateral move to the Houston Rockets with increased pay, sources said. Rosas said the timing of the request, coming right before the draft and free agency, made it impossible for the Timberwolves to let someone with as much proprietary knowledge of the team’s plans go to a competitor. The tension between Rosas and Gupta only grew later in August when Rosas banished Gupta from the team’s offices and granted him permission to seek employment elsewhere, according to sources. The issue was resolved in early September after ownership got involved and Gupta decided to stay.
Earlier in the year, Rosas drew criticism when then-coach Ryan Saunders was fired immediately after a road game loss in New York and replaced with a hire outside the organization, with no minority candidates or others given a chance to interview for the position. Some were also unhappy with the way Saunders was taken to New York on a road trip only to be fired immediately after the game. The decision to part ways with Zarko Durisic, a beloved longtime scout who had been with the organization for more than two decades, did not sit well with some in the organization either.
“Zarko had an incredible career here in Minnesota and really did a great job while he was here,” Rosas said in August. “Just a different stage in his career for us and different stage of where we’re at as an organization. The Ryan decision was one where, after studying, after evaluating, we knew we needed to make change.”
For some, the all-business approach to some of these decisions flew in the face of Rosas’ “family” mantra.
“There’s no way we can survive if we keep going like this,” one person said at the time. “Too many people are unhappy.”
While working on the story, The Athletic brought these concerns to Rosas, who vehemently disputed them. He denied that there were any overwhelming problems with the culture of the front office and said he worked hard to foster an environment of collaboration and diversity.
“There’s going to be some growing pains, there’s going to be some challenges, there’s going to be some misdirection we have to address,” Rosas said several weeks ago. “I put our program and our group next to anybody’s. Once the results show, they will understand the work that went into it and the decisions that had to be made. That’s what we’re working towards.”
He said most teams would have denied Gupta permission in that scenario because it was not a promotion and said he fought hard earlier in his tenure for Gupta to get the Sacramento Kings GM job. He also granted Gupta permission to seek other opportunities after free agency concluded, but Gupta ended up staying on staff in Minnesota and now is replacing Rosas as the lead decision-maker on basketball matters.
Rosas has said on multiple occasions that the timing of Saunders’ firing was unavoidable, and he understood the pushback from some who objected to how it played out. But he said he stood by his decision to hire Chris Finch from the Toronto Raptors, a rare move to go outside the organization in the middle of the season, because he believed so strongly in Finch’s ability to lead the team. Finch has received strong reviews internally from players, coaches and executives and he will remain in place as coach. On Durisic, Rosas said the two had discussions about him remaining on but could not come to an agreement on the role going forward.
One person who said he had no qualms with how Rosas led and thought there was a collaborative environment did say that the overall vibe in the front office was tense. Some of that, he believed, was due to the disenchantment of other members of the staff, but he also believed the pandemic played a role.
“It is not a root cause, but it’s an accelerant,” the source said in August just before the staff left for vacation. “It’s not the spark that lit the flame, but it’s something that makes the flame burn hotter. We haven’t had a day off in basically two years.”
Also factoring into things was a changing ownership group, with tech entrepreneur Marc Lore and former MLB star Alex Rodriguez joining Taylor team with the intent on becoming principal owners in two years. New owners often bring new ideas, and new employees. The fact that they were coming into a situation that has been short on success on the court applied significant pressure to the staff to deliver and hold on to their jobs.
Over his two seasons in Minnesota, several player agents privately had issues with Rosas’ negotiating tactics. Rosas had a responsibility to his organization and ownership, but scenarios would arise where representatives expected better treatment. Just this offseason, Rosas reneged during negotiations with restricted free agent Jordan McLaughlin and misled him about his role, according to a source directly involved in the talks.
“Rosas was the cause of mishaps and pulled his promises,” the source said.
McLaughlin was one of the first players Rosas reached out to when free agency opened, but things changed when he acquired veteran guard Patrick Beverley in a trade with Memphis. Beverley is a more established player and the younger McLaughlin quickly went from being prioritized as a ball-handler who figured to get significant minutes to a reduced role behind D’Angelo Russell and Beverley on the depth chart.
Add to those complaints that the Wolves have been among the worst teams in the league during Rosas’ two years and did not have a draft pick in the 2021 draft because they traded both to Golden State for Russell, and the pressure was on for the upcoming season.
Many of the complaints reached Taylor, Marc Lore and Alex Rodriguez, the newly minted minority owners. There were major concerns about what they were hearing, sources said, and a belief among some in the organization that the working environment that was created by the tension was not sustainable and ran counter to the visions they have for how things should be run.
It was a startling depiction of a man who was hired to breathe new life into the organization when he replaced the fired Tom Thibodeau in 2019. Rosas entered the franchise pledging to be collaborative, innovative, communicative and help the team recover from the disastrous Jimmy Butler trade and Thibodeau’s impersonal demeanor that alienated some in the organization.
He promised to bring a fractured organization back together and chart a new course toward sustained success after Thibodeau’s one playoff appearance was followed by a flameout of spectacular proportions.
It didn’t take Rosas long to make major changes. Midway through his first season on the job, there were only two players left from the team that he inherited. After initially endorsing Saunders as the coach he inherited, Rosas went out and got his preferred candidate in his second season. And he has been working feverishly this summer to try to get Simmons, considered by some in the organization to be the missing piece to pushing the team back into the playoffs again.
All of the turnover, coupled with the pandemic, made for a volatile two years. The Timberwolves failed to gain traction on the court under Rosas’ leadership, but caveats abound. The pandemic ensured that Rosas never presided over a full 82-game season. Towns, who did not miss a game in his first three seasons in the league, missed 22 games last season and 19 in Rosas’ first year while also dealing with the death of his mother and six other loved ones from COVID-19. Russell, the splashiest move of Rosas’ tenure, needed arthroscopic surgery on his left knee in the middle of last season and Finch, who was hired to replace Saunders shortly before the All-Star break, only got to coach sharpshooter Malik Beasley for six games, first because of a 12-game suspension for a police charge, and the final 23 game with a hamstring injury.
Rosas, meanwhile, plunged unapologetically forward right to the end. For a person who spoke so often of being process-driven, he narrowed his eyes much more toward results as the pressure rose. When the NBA Coaches Association made the incredibly rare move to criticize Rosas’s hiring process for Finch because it did not include candidates of color, Rosas pointed to a front office filled with people from varied ethnic backgrounds, including Gupta, and assistant GM Joe Branch and head of analytics Aaron Blackshear, who are Black. Robby Sikka, an Indian-American, was hired to a prominent medical role and was a driver of the team’s response to COVID-19 in addition to collaborating with the NBA on its protocols, left the organization this summer.
“There’s always going to be situations where individuals aren’t particularly happy with certain situations,” Rosas said. “You look at where we’re at with life in the pandemic and changes that we can control and some changes that we can’t control and you can’t please everybody. When you get to that stage, you make hard decisions to move forward.”
When it came to the on-court product, he acknowledged that there was vast room for improvement and the need to start showing real progress going into this season. He knew with new owners on board, the team had to make a good impression to solidify its long-term future.
If people did not agree with his decisions, as several in the front office did when they objected to his decision to include only light protections on a first-round pick that went to Golden State in the trade that brought Russell to Minnesota, he was confident that he would be validated in the long run.
“At the end of the day, it’s my job to make hard decisions and whether that’s popular or unpopular, the results will speak for themselves,” Rosas said in August. “Until we build a winning program, it’s my responsibility to make sure those changes are made when they’re made.
“My conversations with our ownership group, their guidance, the alignment that we have there and making sure that vision is executed is something that is flushed out day to day, what can we do better, how can we grow, how can we develop. All of that comes into play as we build this organization.”
With a handful of days before the start of training camp, people across the NBA were stunned by the Timberwolves parting ways with Rosas. It was clear the heap of issues, from office morale to the lack of success, had decayed the Timberwolves’ front office and sources say those were the driving force behind the move. But why now? In recent days, the organization discovered that Rosas, who is married, had a consensual intimate relationship with a member of the organization, The Athletic has learned from multiple sources. It made several people within the organization uncomfortable, sources said. While this was not the reason for Rosas’ dismissal, it certainly impacted the timing.
“This decision was made for performance reasons,” one high-ranking Timberwolves source said.
He departs with some positives. Finch has shown promise as a coach and a leader. Anthony Edwards, taken with the first pick in the 2020 draft, could be the franchise-type wing for which the team has long searched. Jaden McDaniels was a steal with the 28th pick in the 2020 draft and Naz Reid has blossomed into a solid big man off the bench after being signed as an undrafted free agent in 2019.
And he did have backers very late in the process. When some on staff learned The Athletic was working on a story about the workplace culture, they reached out, albeit mostly unwilling to go on the record, to defend the way things were going. Some insisted that it was an environment in which people could speak freely and offer their views on what needed to be done, and that teams across the league were dealing with issues of discontent among overworked scouts, executives, coaches and players.
Now everyone, those who were disenchanted with Rosas and those who were in his corner, have little time to adjust after the sea change at the top. Gupta has solid relationships with those still on staff and believes in Finch as the coach the team needs, sources said.
The challenge will be to calm a team full of players who have known nothing but change. Media day is on Monday, and suddenly a Wolves team that was hoping to take advantage of the dysfunction in Philadelphia to pry Simmons out of there for pennies on the dollar now faces a mess of its own.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 23 September 2021 03:05 (two years ago) link
“There’s always going to be situations where individuals aren’t particularly happy with certain situations... you can’t please everybody” Rosas said.
yeah lol
― lag∞n, Thursday, 23 September 2021 13:39 (two years ago) link
someone was extremely ready to nuke him on the way out lol
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 23 September 2021 13:46 (two years ago) link
sounds like multiple people
― lag∞n, Thursday, 23 September 2021 14:12 (two years ago) link
talking that new age management stuff while behaving old school is not the best way to endear yourself
― lag∞n, Thursday, 23 September 2021 14:13 (two years ago) link
also making bad trades for dangelo russell
― lag∞n, Thursday, 23 September 2021 14:15 (two years ago) link
From that article, I would check the knife for Gupta's fingerprints.
― Taliban! (PBKR), Thursday, 23 September 2021 15:26 (two years ago) link
I could have lived with it, Wiggins was so toxic here. But only getting top 3 protection on that pick was malpractice
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 23 September 2021 15:26 (two years ago) link
Making out with a subordinate in a team luxury box at a soccer games seems pretty dumb idk
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2948670-sources-timberwolves-dismissed-top-exec-because-of-affair-with-team-staffer.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 23 September 2021 15:29 (two years ago) link
The affair with a subordinate was sufficient for firing him, but it would have been easy to soft peddle it, quietly reprimand him and keep him on. I'm thinking it is being brought forward prominently because it gives ownership an obvious cover for something they wanted to do anyway.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 23 September 2021 17:03 (two years ago) link
couldn’t care less about the affair tbh but he was not good at his job, also sounds like no one will miss him, RIP
― mens rea activist (k3vin k.), Thursday, 23 September 2021 17:36 (two years ago) link
i get the feeling you could write a similar story about a lot of execs around the league
― micah, Saturday, 25 September 2021 13:12 (two years ago) link
they do tend not to last very long
― lag∞n, Saturday, 25 September 2021 14:05 (two years ago) link
an executive who sleeps with employees and makes enemies both inside the organization and out, now I’ve seen it all!
― mens rea activist (k3vin k.), Saturday, 25 September 2021 14:15 (two years ago) link
can someone share this pls https://theathletic.com/2844890/2021/09/23/rick-carlisle-qa-pacers-coach-on-getting-buy-in-the-myles-turner-domantas-sabonis-combo-chris-duarte-and-more/
― micah, Monday, 27 September 2021 11:28 (two years ago) link
It’s been a rough stretch for the Indiana Pacers.They gave head coach Nate McMillan a contract extension two years ago, then fired him after the team was swept out of the playoffs. Then, last year, the team went to pieces under first-year coach Nate Bjorkgren, reaching the second round of play-in games before getting run off the court by the Wizards and falling short of the playoffs. With stories swirling about internal difficulties and general dysfunction, team president Kevin Pritchard pulled the plug after just one season.Now, in an effort to fix everything that fell apart, Pritchard has turned to a familiar face and voice, hiring Rick Carlisle, who left Dallas after a similarly uncomfortable season filled with palace intrigue. For the most part, the Pacers are poised to run it back with largely the same group as in recent years, with some changes. T.J. Warren still hasn’t recovered from the foot injury that sidelined him for all but four games of last season and will be re-evaluated sometime in the next few weeks. Edmond Sumner, the star-crossed rotational player, tore his Achilles tendon and required surgery. The Pacers also lost Doug McDermott to free agency after he had a career year.But the core is still very much intact — for now.And it will be Carlisle’s job to do in Indy what he did in Detroit in 2001-02 when he took a 32-win team and won 50 games twice in the next two seasons.With training camp right around the corner, I stopped by his office this week for a chat:Note: Conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and length.As everybody knows, the Pacers are on their third coach in three years. Do you have any concerns about this being a difficult team to coach or worry about the buy-in from the roster?Well, look, one of the things Malcolm (Brogdon) facilitated was all the players going to L.A. this summer for a three- to four-day period, play basketball, go to dinner and things like that, and they had full participation except for a few guys who were free agents, and Domas (Sabonis) was out of the country. That was a clear sign that they wanted to get things together. Everything we all heard about it was that it was really positive, a good experience.I don’t look at it from a standpoint of how many coaches who’ve been here over a two-year period. I don’t. This is a part of the country that is very prideful. I believe this group of players has a lot of pride, and I believe they want to do better. Look, talk is cheap, and we all have a big task in front of us. We have a very difficult schedule early, and it’s going to be a long season. We’ve made some pretty significant changes to the rosters, and the team is going in a slightly different direction in terms of the makeup, but the core vets are still here. They’re good people, they’re damn good basketball players, and they want to do better. That’s what I’m hearing and seeing.The other thing that’s positive: As of yesterday (Tuesday), we’ve had every single guy back in Indy, and most of the vets came in last week. Myles (Turner) and Domas had things planned and came in yesterday, but basically the whole group has one full week together before training camp, so that’s a positive.Did you or any members of the coaching staff join them in L.A.?No. I asked if it was appropriate. I thought it was a chance to see a lot of guys in one trip instead of traveling separately, and the message was pretty clear. They didn’t say I couldn’t come, but I understood it was a players-only thing, which is great. It’s great.At your introductory news conference, you talked quite a bit about restoring the Pacers’ historic commitment to defense, which kind of went by the wayside last year. How do you do that?Work. A lot of work. The No. 1 thing is to get them in great condition, develop chemistry and implement an offensive and defensive system that makes sense for this group. It’s pretty clear from our draft. We’ve brought in two guys (Chris Duarte and Isaiah Jackson) who were high-level college defenders. And then adding Torrey Craig, who’s a defensive-minded guy. So the offseason moves have all been in the direction of adding competitive defensive players. (Assistant coach) Lloyd (Pierce) is essentially going to be the defensive coordinator, and Ron (Nored) will work with him on defense. Our big emphasis will be on ball movement and defense. I should say defense and ball movement. The defensive side of the ball is something we’re really going to concentrate on. We’ve got to do better there.It’s a significantly different game than the one you coached when you were the head coach here from 2003 to 2007. I still remember those 68-65 slugfests against the Pistons in the playoffs …So much has changed in 13 years. An awful lot has changed in just the last three years. We’ve just got to navigate the aspects of today’s game, which are so important, and bridge that with our personnel. One of the obvious things is getting the two big guys (Turner and Sabonis) together. I don’t think it’s a complicated issue with them. They’re both young, and they still have a chance to improve their 3-point shooting, so they worked very hard on it this summer and they’re going to continue to work on it. The spacing aspect of the game is going to be critical. We’ve got to take advantage, strategically, of their size at both ends of the floor.During that same introductory newser, you mentioned staggering Turner’s and Sabonis’ minutes.I anticipate them starting together, but we’ll stagger them and separate them. We’ll have a lot of different things we’re going to look at.We know what Turner can do and has done defensively, but are there other areas where you’d like to see some growth? It feels like we’ve been waiting for several years for him to develop a low-post game and become a more consistent rebounder.Like you said, Myles is an elite defender and the best rim protector in the league. He can be an effective 3-point shooter. Now we’ve got to find more ways to get him effectively around the basket offensively.T.J. Warren’s injury hasn’t resolved itself just yet; he’s going to be re-evaluated in a few weeks. How do you handle that?Well, the possibility it could take longer was one of the factors that went into the decision to acquire Craig, who’s another wing defender, a three-and-D-type guy. He’s certainly not the kind of player as T.J. Warren is, but he’s a guy who’s experienced; he played in the Finals. He’s been a really positive guy for us since he got here two weeks ago. He wanted to be in Indy, wanted to play for the Pacers, and that was really important to us as well.You said earlier that you really liked this team. Was that just news conference talk or are there things that really intrigue you about this group?I do, I do. I mean, there are always matchup challenges with any team — it doesn’t matter who you are, which conference you’re in. Every night there are going to be challenging matchups. So you’ve got to navigate that stuff, but it’s stuff that’s got to be navigated as a team, and the guys that need help we’ve got to give help to. This group has a physical aspect to them and the ability to be a better rebounding team. We’ve got guards who can get more rebounds, too.It’s a new situation, and that’s always exciting. I like that our core players are in their mid-to-late 20s, an age where they’re experienced enough to know better, and the hope is they can learn from the successes and the difficulties these past two, three years. We’re going to make our best effort to put this thing together and do better; it’s as simple as that. Listen, I’m really excited about our two draft picks. Duarte and Jackson are two guys who can help us right away. They’re both versatile, they defend, they can do special things offensively as well, so that’s exciting.Both of them were very impressive during Summer League. What kind of impression did they make on you?Duarte can score and he can defend. Very skilled guy. His natural position is two, but he can play the three and the one. Jackson got a little bit of a late start. He was technically in the (Russell) Westbrook trade, and he wasn’t cleared to play in the first Summer League game. He hadn’t practiced other than to ride a bike and watch the entire prep time in Vegas. Then he was cleared to play halfway through the first quarter of the first game; (Summer League coach Mike Weinar) inserted him for two-, three-minute stretches. He didn’t really get his legs under him until the fourth game, and he had seven blocked shots. He blocked three jump shots. The guy does some really unusual things defensively.How do you fill the scoring hole left by Warren?I think you can look at it several different ways. We’ve got to somehow replace his scoring and (Doug) McDermott’s shooting. Duarte is going to be a factor in those two areas. (Jeremy) Lamb is back, and he’s healthy. He’s another guy who can help with scoring in that spot.This team did a lot of very good things last year. They moved the ball very well; they played with pace. We’re going to look very closely at it, and if we need to make changes to the roster, (team president) Kevin (Pritchard) will do it. He’s no shrinking violet when it comes to that kind of stuff. But I’ve felt all along that it was important to get them in here and see them and work with them before making huge decisions on the future of the roster. But I do like the fact that we’ve got a lot of guys who are entering the primes of their careers.Do you feel like you need to fix some of the things that were broken last year?That’s a karmically flawed question. (Laughing — sort of.)I ask lots of karmically flawed questions.I mean, look, last year was a fucked-up year. It was a fucked-up year for everybody. I look at this year’s draft. I remember trying to get information on some guys who might have been in our (draft) range, and the thing that kept coming up was, “It was such a fucked-up year.” Some guys had injuries, some had COVID, some left school. Now, you’ve got this Ignite team, which adds another aspect to this whole deal. This year, no one is sitting back with any complacency. We know there’s always a surprise around the next corner. Everybody’s got to be light on their feet and resilient and able to adjust.Early in your first go-round as the Pacers coach, you called a lot of plays. That changed over time. Where are you on that?The game has totally changed, and the nature of play calling has changed too. It isn’t as much plays as it is actions into playmaking. Because defenses have a lot more liberties now. You can play zone, you can have two guys guarding the guy who doesn’t have the ball, all that kind of stuff. We built an elite offensive team twice in Dallas playing flow basketball and playing with momentum, without play calls, and the desire is to do the same thing here.You lost McDermott to free agency, but T.J. McConnell is back. Is it karmically flawed to suggest he’s very similar to J.J. Barea?A little, but not as much as you think. T.J. is a unique player. There’s not another guy like him in the league. Now, Barea was a master at the pick-and-roll with (Dirk) Nowitzki. McConnell is more of a movement maker, and he’s a defensive pain in the ass. But he impacts the game. He has an insufferable sixth sense for disruption defensively. I’m very glad to be on this side of it now.Your first staff hire was Lloyd Pierce. I recall you sang his praises back when he was let go by the Hawks.I like everything about him. He knows the game, he played the game, he’s a great communicator. He’s got a lot of experience on the defensive side of the ball, he’s been an NBA head coach, he was just part of a gold-medal-winning Olympic team in Tokyo, and he remains our lead chair for Coaches for Racial Justice. He’s a very special person.You’ve always championed progressive causes, but you were especially vocal during the period of racial reckoning last summer.When the George Floyd murder happened, it was the beginning of a daunting education because it awoke our entire nation in ways we hadn’t seen in decades. There’s so much that I learned about systemic racism, the history of racial injustice. I learned a lot from working with Lloyd on our committees. And all the things we did during that period of time — there was a lot of work on voter rights; we worked locally on issues involving policing standards and practices. We were able to make an impact in Dallas, getting things changed and adjusted. I’m in the process now of learning about the Indy landscape, and I’m going to start doing more extensive research on local grassroots organizations.I partner with Mothers Against Police Brutality — was just a phenomenal group of people and helped me learn so much. I was involved with the Equal Justice Initiative, the Obama Foundation and My Brother’s Keeper. So it’s an ongoing set of challenges, and the work goes on and it will continue to go on.Sometime this camp, we’re going to a prison to do an interactive thing. Milwaukee did it a few years ago. Not sure when and where yet, but we’ll play basketball, get together and talk about things related to their experiences and our experiences. And Steve Simon (the son of team owner Herb Simon) is very involved with social justice issues. I’ll speak to him about the local landscape, those things that are meaningful and important from his point of view, and then figure out the best direction to go.
As everybody knows, the Pacers are on their third coach in three years. Do you have any concerns about this being a difficult team to coach or worry about the buy-in from the roster?
Well, look, one of the things Malcolm (Brogdon) facilitated was all the players going to L.A. this summer for a three- to four-day period, play basketball, go to dinner and things like that, and they had full participation except for a few guys who were free agents, and Domas (Sabonis) was out of the country. That was a clear sign that they wanted to get things together. Everything we all heard about it was that it was really positive, a good experience.
I don’t look at it from a standpoint of how many coaches who’ve been here over a two-year period. I don’t. This is a part of the country that is very prideful. I believe this group of players has a lot of pride, and I believe they want to do better. Look, talk is cheap, and we all have a big task in front of us. We have a very difficult schedule early, and it’s going to be a long season. We’ve made some pretty significant changes to the rosters, and the team is going in a slightly different direction in terms of the makeup, but the core vets are still here. They’re good people, they’re damn good basketball players, and they want to do better. That’s what I’m hearing and seeing.
The other thing that’s positive: As of yesterday (Tuesday), we’ve had every single guy back in Indy, and most of the vets came in last week. Myles (Turner) and Domas had things planned and came in yesterday, but basically the whole group has one full week together before training camp, so that’s a positive.
Did you or any members of the coaching staff join them in L.A.?
No. I asked if it was appropriate. I thought it was a chance to see a lot of guys in one trip instead of traveling separately, and the message was pretty clear. They didn’t say I couldn’t come, but I understood it was a players-only thing, which is great. It’s great.
At your introductory news conference, you talked quite a bit about restoring the Pacers’ historic commitment to defense, which kind of went by the wayside last year. How do you do that?
Work. A lot of work. The No. 1 thing is to get them in great condition, develop chemistry and implement an offensive and defensive system that makes sense for this group. It’s pretty clear from our draft. We’ve brought in two guys (Chris Duarte and Isaiah Jackson) who were high-level college defenders. And then adding Torrey Craig, who’s a defensive-minded guy. So the offseason moves have all been in the direction of adding competitive defensive players. (Assistant coach) Lloyd (Pierce) is essentially going to be the defensive coordinator, and Ron (Nored) will work with him on defense. Our big emphasis will be on ball movement and defense. I should say defense and ball movement. The defensive side of the ball is something we’re really going to concentrate on. We’ve got to do better there.
It’s a significantly different game than the one you coached when you were the head coach here from 2003 to 2007. I still remember those 68-65 slugfests against the Pistons in the playoffs …
So much has changed in 13 years. An awful lot has changed in just the last three years. We’ve just got to navigate the aspects of today’s game, which are so important, and bridge that with our personnel. One of the obvious things is getting the two big guys (Turner and Sabonis) together. I don’t think it’s a complicated issue with them. They’re both young, and they still have a chance to improve their 3-point shooting, so they worked very hard on it this summer and they’re going to continue to work on it. The spacing aspect of the game is going to be critical. We’ve got to take advantage, strategically, of their size at both ends of the floor.
During that same introductory newser, you mentioned staggering Turner’s and Sabonis’ minutes.
I anticipate them starting together, but we’ll stagger them and separate them. We’ll have a lot of different things we’re going to look at.We know what Turner can do and has done defensively, but are there other areas where you’d like to see some growth? It feels like we’ve been waiting for several years for him to develop a low-post game and become a more consistent rebounder.
Like you said, Myles is an elite defender and the best rim protector in the league. He can be an effective 3-point shooter. Now we’ve got to find more ways to get him effectively around the basket offensively.
T.J. Warren’s injury hasn’t resolved itself just yet; he’s going to be re-evaluated in a few weeks. How do you handle that?
Well, the possibility it could take longer was one of the factors that went into the decision to acquire Craig, who’s another wing defender, a three-and-D-type guy. He’s certainly not the kind of player as T.J. Warren is, but he’s a guy who’s experienced; he played in the Finals. He’s been a really positive guy for us since he got here two weeks ago. He wanted to be in Indy, wanted to play for the Pacers, and that was really important to us as well.
You said earlier that you really liked this team. Was that just news conference talk or are there things that really intrigue you about this group?
I do, I do. I mean, there are always matchup challenges with any team — it doesn’t matter who you are, which conference you’re in. Every night there are going to be challenging matchups. So you’ve got to navigate that stuff, but it’s stuff that’s got to be navigated as a team, and the guys that need help we’ve got to give help to. This group has a physical aspect to them and the ability to be a better rebounding team. We’ve got guards who can get more rebounds, too.
It’s a new situation, and that’s always exciting. I like that our core players are in their mid-to-late 20s, an age where they’re experienced enough to know better, and the hope is they can learn from the successes and the difficulties these past two, three years. We’re going to make our best effort to put this thing together and do better; it’s as simple as that. Listen, I’m really excited about our two draft picks. Duarte and Jackson are two guys who can help us right away. They’re both versatile, they defend, they can do special things offensively as well, so that’s exciting.
Both of them were very impressive during Summer League. What kind of impression did they make on you?
Duarte can score and he can defend. Very skilled guy. His natural position is two, but he can play the three and the one. Jackson got a little bit of a late start. He was technically in the (Russell) Westbrook trade, and he wasn’t cleared to play in the first Summer League game. He hadn’t practiced other than to ride a bike and watch the entire prep time in Vegas. Then he was cleared to play halfway through the first quarter of the first game; (Summer League coach Mike Weinar) inserted him for two-, three-minute stretches. He didn’t really get his legs under him until the fourth game, and he had seven blocked shots. He blocked three jump shots. The guy does some really unusual things defensively.
How do you fill the scoring hole left by Warren?
I think you can look at it several different ways. We’ve got to somehow replace his scoring and (Doug) McDermott’s shooting. Duarte is going to be a factor in those two areas. (Jeremy) Lamb is back, and he’s healthy. He’s another guy who can help with scoring in that spot.
This team did a lot of very good things last year. They moved the ball very well; they played with pace. We’re going to look very closely at it, and if we need to make changes to the roster, (team president) Kevin (Pritchard) will do it. He’s no shrinking violet when it comes to that kind of stuff. But I’ve felt all along that it was important to get them in here and see them and work with them before making huge decisions on the future of the roster. But I do like the fact that we’ve got a lot of guys who are entering the primes of their careers.
Do you feel like you need to fix some of the things that were broken last year?
That’s a karmically flawed question. (Laughing — sort of.)
I ask lots of karmically flawed questions.
I mean, look, last year was a fucked-up year. It was a fucked-up year for everybody. I look at this year’s draft. I remember trying to get information on some guys who might have been in our (draft) range, and the thing that kept coming up was, “It was such a fucked-up year.” Some guys had injuries, some had COVID, some left school. Now, you’ve got this Ignite team, which adds another aspect to this whole deal. This year, no one is sitting back with any complacency. We know there’s always a surprise around the next corner. Everybody’s got to be light on their feet and resilient and able to adjust.
Early in your first go-round as the Pacers coach, you called a lot of plays. That changed over time. Where are you on that?
The game has totally changed, and the nature of play calling has changed too. It isn’t as much plays as it is actions into playmaking. Because defenses have a lot more liberties now. You can play zone, you can have two guys guarding the guy who doesn’t have the ball, all that kind of stuff. We built an elite offensive team twice in Dallas playing flow basketball and playing with momentum, without play calls, and the desire is to do the same thing here.
You lost McDermott to free agency, but T.J. McConnell is back. Is it karmically flawed to suggest he’s very similar to J.J. Barea?
A little, but not as much as you think. T.J. is a unique player. There’s not another guy like him in the league. Now, Barea was a master at the pick-and-roll with (Dirk) Nowitzki. McConnell is more of a movement maker, and he’s a defensive pain in the ass. But he impacts the game. He has an insufferable sixth sense for disruption defensively. I’m very glad to be on this side of it now.
Your first staff hire was Lloyd Pierce. I recall you sang his praises back when he was let go by the Hawks.
I like everything about him. He knows the game, he played the game, he’s a great communicator. He’s got a lot of experience on the defensive side of the ball, he’s been an NBA head coach, he was just part of a gold-medal-winning Olympic team in Tokyo, and he remains our lead chair for Coaches for Racial Justice. He’s a very special person.
You’ve always championed progressive causes, but you were especially vocal during the period of racial reckoning last summer.
When the George Floyd murder happened, it was the beginning of a daunting education because it awoke our entire nation in ways we hadn’t seen in decades. There’s so much that I learned about systemic racism, the history of racial injustice. I learned a lot from working with Lloyd on our committees. And all the things we did during that period of time — there was a lot of work on voter rights; we worked locally on issues involving policing standards and practices. We were able to make an impact in Dallas, getting things changed and adjusted. I’m in the process now of learning about the Indy landscape, and I’m going to start doing more extensive research on local grassroots organizations.
I partner with Mothers Against Police Brutality — was just a phenomenal group of people and helped me learn so much. I was involved with the Equal Justice Initiative, the Obama Foundation and My Brother’s Keeper. So it’s an ongoing set of challenges, and the work goes on and it will continue to go on.
Sometime this camp, we’re going to a prison to do an interactive thing. Milwaukee did it a few years ago. Not sure when and where yet, but we’ll play basketball, get together and talk about things related to their experiences and our experiences. And Steve Simon (the son of team owner Herb Simon) is very involved with social justice issues. I’ll speak to him about the local landscape, those things that are meaningful and important from his point of view, and then figure out the best direction to go.
― When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Monday, 27 September 2021 12:52 (two years ago) link
ty forks
― micah, Monday, 27 September 2021 19:55 (two years ago) link
How do you measure the absence of something?
That, at heart, is the problem with evaluating defense in virtually any sport. While we can tell relatively quickly what happened at the team level — the other team didn’t score — assigning individual credit for those instances is usually much more difficult.
In rare instances it’s easy — Tayshaun Prince deserves the lion’s share of the credit for this stop by the Pistons, for instance — but the vast majority of NBA defense is about stuff that doesn’t happen. It’s mostly about the shot the other team didn’t take, or the guy who was denied receiving the ball in his favorite spot, or the post player pushed two feet further from the basket.
I got a firsthand look at how this works with the grit-and-grind Grizzlies when I worked in their front office. On the perimeter, we had Tony Allen, who might be the best player I’ve ever seen at denying a player the ball. And behind him, we had Marc Gasol, who was the absolute master of the subtle slide, the split-second positioning, putting out fires before they ever got started. We think of dominant defense as blocking shots at the top of the square or picking a dribble at midcourt, but more often than not it’s the absence of openings, the inability to catch the ball, the play call that goes nowhere because the big on the weak side reads it a beat early.
Take these two play clips, for instance, both of which end in the same result — a missed Patrick Beverley 3-pointer from the right corner. How we get there and the quality of the resulting shot is radically different, however.
Here’s the first one, late in a tight game in Houston:
The box score simply reports that Beverley just missed a shot from the corner. The closest defender was Mike Conley, but he probably wasn’t close enough that you’d give him credit for “forcing” the miss. Houston got a wide-open 3 on this play.
And yet … the Grizzlies took away several options just by not screwing up and not overreacting. At the start, a double-drag for Beverley draws spectacular disinterest from the Memphis defense, as Courtney Lee nonchalantly goes under and Gasol doesn’t even bother hedging. Recognizing a non-threat is as important as reacting quickly to real ones.
There is an emergency on the left side, however, as the smaller Conley has picked up James Harden on a transition switch, and Harden has him on the left block.
Fortunately, Gasol and Lee see what’s happening and execute a perfect scram switch (which Gasol likely called out) while the ball is still in the air. (If you’re looking for Allen, he was injured for this game). For good measure, Gasol leaves Dwight Howard just long enough to tag Beverley and slow his cut, cleansing himself on defensive 3 seconds. Zach Randolph has the far less threatening Terrence Jones to collapse on Harden’s drive and force a kick out; Conley shades Jones to pass to the corner but can’t quite get a hand on the pass.
Memphis did lots of good stuff … but still gave up an open corner shot to a guy who shot 36.1 percent 3-point from 3 that season. Then the evil refs called a foul on Gasol even though Howard shoved him first.
You’ll find another “Beverley 3-point corner miss” on the last play of the game.
Notably, the box score just reports that Beverley missed a shot at the buzzer. Conley was the closest defender, so if you were trying to assign credit based on “forcing” a miss you might focus on him. Indeed, Conley got in his space and made a nice contest.
But all the action happened on the other side of the court. There’s an initial pick-and-roll that might have been dummy action but had to be respected; Gasol hangs just close enough to the dribbler to allow James Johnson to recover and knows that since Johnson that season was the king of blocking 3-point shots he could get back to Howard quickly.
Courtney Lee denied a wing catch for Harden, but — aha! — Houston may have planned for us to deny it and set up a play for Harden to back cut (indeed, this play may be the hardest off-ball cut Harden has made at any point in the last 10 seasons).
Fortunately, two other defenders see what’s happening. First, there’s a quick slide by Prince — theoretically assigned to Jeremy Lin in the corner, but already tagging Howard’s role and waiting to hand him back to the retreating Gasol — and then Gasol peels off his return to Howard when he sees Harden scampering through the lane. With plans A through C gone (and Johnson close enough to make a crosscourt laser to Lin in the corner exceedingly difficult), the only option left was a Beverley heave from the corner.
Go back through both of these plays, and the most notable stuff was the things that didn’t happen — on the first play, Beverley didn’t get any openings on his double drag, and Harden didn’t get a mismatch against Conley. On the second, Howard’s roll wasn’t open on the initial screen, and Harden’s back cut was off by two help defenders.
That, then, is the nature of the challenge in discussing defense.
It’s basketball’s version of “Seinfeld.” It’s a show about nothing, a discourse on events that didn’t happen. The flashy stuff of defense — chase-down blocks, open-court steals and the like — are a vanishingly small percentage of the overall number of plays a team defends and the correlation of these events to overall defensive success can be frustratingly small.
Even as advanced stats continue to evolve and nudge us in the right directions, the evaluation of defense is, to a greater extent than any other facet of the game, still heavily dependent on the good ol’ eye test. This is why you need a numbers guy to tell you who the best players were. (Wait, what?)
In all seriousness, as I endeavor on what is likely a foolish errand whose best-case scenario is me getting flamed by Kobe Truthers in the comments, keep two things in mind:
1. There have been a lot of great defenders in our game’s history, and I can’t possibly talk about all of them; even talking about a small handful of them will entail more of a summary than a long-winded exposition of their Absolute True and Final Value.
2. This is all, by necessity, opinion. Opinion informed by facts and video and stats and research and 40-year-old memories of a kid in New Jersey watching Bobby Jones guard Larry Bird on standard-def TV via an antenna, but an opinion nonetheless.Bill Russell was the NBA’s premier defender for more than a decade. (Dick Raphael / NBAE via Getty Images)
In the beginning, there were the centers. For much of the NBA’s history rating defensive players was easier because so much of defense was just stationing the biggest dude on the court under the basket. Even as the 3-point era came along and the game evolved, the most impactful defenders in league annals were virtually all centers or “forwards” like Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan who happened to be seven feet tall.
There were two dominant defenders in the 1950s and ’60s: Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain. Not that there weren’t some perimeter players in this era who could get it done (K.C. Jones, for instance, or Walt Frazier or Jerry West). But with offenses designed to play through the post and attack mismatches, and the concept of stretch bigs still either in the womb or very much in its infancy, having a giant who could block shots and guard post-ups guaranteed an awesome defense right up until the mid-’90s.
In the case of the league’s earliest days, we don’t have the exact statistical picture, not even relative to the gray shades now available to us. Even the team-level stats from half a century ago aren’t that great.
But we have enough circumstantial evidence to underscore the fact that Russell is an all-time great defender. Any analysis, no matter how ham-handed, would have to include that Russell impacted his team’s defensive results like no other player in history.
Based on the data we can pull together, for instance, (kudos to basketball-reference.com’s work), Russell’s Celtics ranked sixth in defense out of eight teams in the NBA the year before he arrived, and finished eighth out of 14 teams the season after he retired.
And in between, they were first in Defensive Rating for 11 straight seasons and 12 out of 13. They weren’t just squeaking by, either, often finishing multiple standard deviations ahead of second place. In 1961-62, for instance, the difference between Russell’s Celtics and second-place Syracuse was bigger than the difference between Syracuse and last-place St. Louis.
Thanks to the wonders of YouTube we now have more access to grainy tape of Russell kicking butt (Oh, hi, Jerry West, you weren’t thinking this was an open pull-up, were you?), and it is an impressive collection. If you want to geek out, you might consider starting here with Ben Taylor’s curated collection of his greatest hits.
Needless to say, even half a century later, any discussion of great defenders begins with Russell.
Russell’s dominance was part of a larger dynamic, though. For four straight years at the end of the 1960s, for instance, the top 3 defenses belonged to Russell’s team, Chamberlain’s team and Nate Thurmond’s team.
During the half-decade that followed, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s Milwaukee teams were either first or second by percentage points in the defensive standings; their rivals for that spot were Willis Reed’s Knicks, Chamberlain’s Lakers and the Wes Unseld-Elvin Hayes Bullets. Guards were nice, but defensively, your bigs determined your fate.
By the mid-’70s it was still very much a big man’s game, but it had evolved to the perimeter enough that we get our first glimpse at truly needle-moving perimeter defenders. As we got into the Larry Bird-Magic Johnson-Julius Erving era of wing athletes with size and skill, teams needed perimeter defenders to match up against these talents. Everybody good team had a defensive stopper: The Lakers had Michael Cooper, Milwaukee had Paul Pressey, Denver had T.R. Dunn and Houston had Rodney McCray.
However, three players from this era stand out: Dennis Johnson, Bobby Jones and Sidney Moncrief.
Across multiple teams and different lineup iterations, Jones and Johnson each guaranteed a top-notch defense for their employer. Contemporaries agreed, voting both to nine NBA All-Defensive teams. For five straight seasons from 1978-79 to 1982-83, they both were first-team choices.
(I should note here that All-Defensive votes are an extremely imperfect way of comparing historical greatness. Without saying names, let’s just say some players have been voted on because they were famous and played in a big market. Jones, Johnson and Cooper played for the only three teams that ever got on national TV in the 1980s and thus likely benefited heavily from this as well. However, Jones and Johnson were tabbed as first-teamers even while playing in flyover country before moving to glamour markets).
Johnson played nine straight years in a top-5 defense and repped the top outfit four times in three different places, going from Seattle to Phoenix to Boston. His Seattle team lead the league in defensive rating in 1980 while Phoenix finished fifth; his Phoenix team led it in 1981 while Seattle fell to 10th. When he went from Phoenix to Boston in 1983-84 the Suns fell from 3rd to 13th, while Boston rose from 7th to 3rd.
Similarly, Jones’ Nuggets had the best defense in the NBA as a fresh ABA import in 1976-77; he went to Philly and they finished first, first and second his first three seasons there despite lacking a dominant big man.
(While we’re in this era and talking about defense: Can we get a shoutout to Larry Brown for somehow leading this roster to the league’s top defense in 1983 and then, as only Brown could do, bailing the last week of the season to take the Kansas job).
Moncrief, meanwhile, won the league’s first two NBA Defensive Player of the Year awards — quite a statement for a small player in a small market — and, along with Pressey, helped a Milwaukee team not overloaded with interior defenders to a second-place ranking in defense for three straight years.
If there’s a fourth perimeter ace from this era to discuss, it would have to be Cooper. His prime didn’t burn quite as long and some of his impact numbers weren’t quite as impressive, but he guarded Bird as well as anybody (we’re now into the generation of players that I saw play) and he made eight NBA All-Defensive teams. While the Magic-era Lakers were mostly offense-driven teams — they were first or second nine times in 10 years — Cooper was unquestionably an elite on-ball defender.
What’s interesting is that all four players had good but not exactly amazing steals and blocks numbers; you had to dig more deeply to see their impact. Fortunately, around this time, we start getting slightly better-advanced stats. Jones, in particular, stands out when one looks at career defensive BPM leaders.
But hang on.
Only a decade after perimeter defenders start getting their due and Magic and Bird introduce a nation to the beautiful game, we get into the league’s tug-and-grab, beast ball era. The Bad Boys. Riley’s Knicks. 72-65 playoff games. Malice at the Palace.
The span from 1990 to 2005 contained many assorted slights to the sanctity of the game, but this was a glorious era for defense. In particular, a certain type of defense. With the pace slowed to a crawl and physicality at a premium, size and power mattered much more than quickness.
Not surprisingly, this was also the most notable big man era in league annals. While the 1950s and ’60s gave us Russell vs. Chamberlain, the ’90s gave us Olajuwon vs. Robinson vs. Ewing vs. Mourning vs. Mutombo vs. Eaton, and then right when we exhaled, Round 2 came along with Shaq vs. Duncan. There were so many good defensive centers in that era that Ewing only made three NBA All-Defensive teams, even as the linchpin of a Knicks team that annually ranked near the top of the league in defense.
As ever, rim protectors were among the most valuable defenders, and we had some great ones. Eaton ushered it in, an immovable 7-foot-4 mountain perfectly situated for an era of slowing tempo and big guys playing near the basket. A fourth-round pick, Eaton won NBA Defensive Player of the Year twice and unofficially shattered the league record for shots blocked without jumping. Countless times, he’d just stretch his arms up vertically and watch a guard shoot the ball right into them.
He also offered the first hint of what was to come in the NBA, when Golden State coach Don Nelson countered his size in the 1989 playoffs by playing five perimeter players in a playoffs series and forcing Eaton to chase them; the Warriors won in a sweep. We’ll see this movie again further down the road.
The finger-wagging Dikembe Mutombo was the next incarnation of this archetype and overall probably the best of them as a defender across any era. He entered the league as a 25-year-old rookie (put that in your draft model, nerds), led the league in blocks three times and won NBA Defensive Value of the Year four times. Mutombo was good enough as a rim protector that he played regular minutes until a career-ending knee injury at age 42, even though he had no offensive value for the final seven years of his career.
But the Eaton-Mutombo archetype was never quite as valuable as the mobile rim protectors of the same era, of which we were granted two jaw-dropping talents in the same state at the same time in the form of Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.
Robinson gets short shrift in the discussion of great defenders largely based on two playoff series — a whirling, reverse-pivoting pantsing at the hands of Olajuwon in the 1995 Western Conference finals and an overwhelming physical destruction by a prime Shaquille O’Neal in the 2001 Western Conference playoffs when Robinson was 35. (Indeed, Mutombo held up much better against Shaq in those same playoffs).
Those two series are part of his record, but let’s not get carried away. Robinson was an awesome all-court defender who would have been even more dominant in the current era than the ones in which he played. He had the speed and mobility to cover smaller players on the perimeter and the size and shot-blocking ability to make the middle a no-fly zone. He did struggle with physicality at times (Hi, Shaq), but his impact stats are completely crazy; he has the highest defensive BPM rating in history, for instance. Seven years before Duncan arrived, Robinson’s Spurs led the league in defensive efficiency in 1990-91, and he also won NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 1992.
And then there is Olajuwon, who for my money is the most underrated defensive player of all time. If anything, he suffered from playing in the 1990s maul ball era rather than the current one, where he’d be effortlessly floating along the perimeter tracking guards, periodically picking their dribble with his frog-tongue hands or gently swatting away their misguided attempts at taking him to the rim. One of my prime childhood memories is of an otherwise overmatched Rockets team playing Boston in the 1986 NBA Finals-clinching Game 6. In the first quarter, Olajuwon stole the ball three straight times for breakaway buckets. (Go to the 25-minute mark to see for yourself).
Olajuwon would make you cackle with the stuff he did; I wish teams switched more back then because he had crazy hands that pilfered embarrassed guards. Despite playing center full time, he finished in the top 12 in steals five straight seasons from 1987-88 to 1991-82. In short, he was amazing. If you don’t want to see a full NBA Finals game, at least watch him defend the entire Bulls team for 10 seconds.
On a team level, the Rockets’ 1994 champions, which in terms of historical impact consisted of Hakeem and some guys, ranked second in defensive efficiency; previous editions finished third, second, first, fourth, fourth and third. Olajuwon never played with another great player until the late-model version of Clyde Drexler arrived in the spring of 1995, and he only played with one other All-Star caliber player (Ralph Sampson) for any length of time in his prime; we might esteem his career more if he had.
Four non-centers from that area also warrant mentioning in any discussion of all-time great defenders. Three of them played on the same team.
The Chicago Bulls from 1996 to 1998 might be the greatest defensive juggernaut in league annals even though they offered very little in the way of a traditional rim-protecting big man. They didn’t need it with three holy terrors at the 2 through 4 spots in Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman.Dennis Rodman, Micahel Jordan and Scottie Pippen formed a formidable defensive trio. (Andrew D. Bernstein / NBAE via Getty Images)
Jordan gets the most acclaim of the three, and the locked-in version of him in key moments was something to behold. However, his offensive load did force him to pick his spots at times, whereas Pippen could terrorize opponents with his length and mobility all game long. (Jordan also gambled a lot. No, I mean on the court.)
Again, it’s unfortunate that Pippen in particular couldn’t play in the current era rather than in the super-macho 1990s, where his ability to play passing lanes and gobble up acres of court would be even more of a weapon against today’s spread offenses. He also excelled at harassing opposing point guards with full-court pressure, even if they were much smaller. Even those who survived the experience were often forced to dribble ass-first up the court and chew up valuable time off of the shot clock.
The best case for Pippen is the 1993-94 and 1994-95 Bulls, who had neither Jordan nor Rodman but finished second in defensive efficiency while Pippen led the league in steals. Pippen never won DPOY, but he made 10 NBA All-Defensive squads including eight first-team selections. He outranks Jordan in career Defensive Win Shares, believe it or not, and his 4.0 Steal Rate in those two non-Jordan seasons were the highest ever for a player 6-8 or higher, by miles and miles. (It is a looooong scroll down before you get to George Lynch).
As for Rodman, he was awesome when the moment demanded, especially when he could lock horns against a big forward; his work on Karl Malone in successive NBA Finals stood out, but a younger Rodman also was entrusted with guarding Bird in key moments for the Bad Boy Pistons, where he won consecutive NBA Defensive Player of the Year trophies. Rodman quite obviously is the greatest rebounder ever, as I’ve already discussed, and that added more value on the defensive side, but in the second half of his career, he also would hurt himself at times with his reluctance to contest on the perimeter … leaving him too far from his desired board.
That misgiving aside, no list of great defensive players is even remotely complete without The Worm; he was a key element of two different suffocating, dominant defensive squads. Interestingly, the numbers are all over the place on him. Despite superior mobility for his size, he did not compile high rates of “stocks.” For instance, Rodman, who was so flamboyant in other respects, played a very fundamental brand of defense, preferring to keep players in front and contest late.
Finally, we get to one of the few point guards who had enough defensive impact to warrant mention in this discussion: Gary Payton. “The Glove” was a trash-talking pest who had size, wiry strength for the “arm-bar era”, and great hands, making his ball pressure particularly effective on a Seattle team that loved to trap and press. Payton made nine straight NBA All-Defensive teams and was the 1996 Defensive Player of the Year with his Sonics squads finishing in the top three in defense three times.
Some of this was perhaps a bit too reputation-based toward the end (he made first-team All-Defensive while captaining teams that were 26th and 24th in defensive efficiency in 1999 and 2001), but the mid-1990s version of Payton was the perfect mix of player and era. (While we’re here, a brief shoutout to Payton’s teammate Nate McMillan, who posted the highest steal rate in league history for that 1993-94 Sonics squad).
As the century turned we reached the nadir of the beast-ball era, with defenses miles ahead of offenses and physicality gone wild on the perimeter. Perhaps the defining player of that era is Ron Artest, now known as Metta Sandiford-Artest, who at 6-7, 260 pounds nonetheless posted the highest steal rate of the last quarter-century in 2001-02. Artest became famous for many other things, but as a defender, he had superhuman strength, surprisingly quick feet and great hands, and as a result, this era was a perfect time for him. He won the 2004 NBA Defensive Player of the Year award but only made four All-Defensive teams, mostly because he was so often injured or suspended.
Not surprisingly, bigs again ruled the defensive terrain. But as teams began to open the floor, the terrain began to subtly shift toward mobile bigs who could toggle between frontcourt positions. In particular, three players dominated the defense discussion in this era: Garnett, Tim Duncan and Ben Wallace.
Duncan was the successor to Robinson in the middle but started his career with a six-year stint where played power forward while paired with Robinson to form the league’s most dominant defensive frontcourt in memory. Even with a post-back-surgery Robinson, that team won two championships and finished in the top three in defensive efficiency six straight years, ranking first three times. Even after Robinson retired, Duncan led the Spurs to the league’s top defensive rating the next three years, and San Antonio landed in the top three five other times.
Duncan’s calling card was, of course, his unspectacular play. He didn’t talk trash, foam at the mouth or bang his head on things like Garnett, but his endless arms and surprisingly nimble feet (especially early in his career) let him check much smaller players and still protect the rim.
Duncan also virtually never made mistakes, true to his name as “The Big Fundamental,” while specializing in tippy-toe blocked shots at the point of release rather than skying to swat shots at their apex. He never won NBA Defensive Player of the Year but made the All-Defensive team an amazing 15 times (the most in history, by far), including eight first-team selections. He even garnered a second-team selection as a 38-year-old in 2015.
I’ll note that those Spurs teams in the aughts also featured Bruce Bowen, a perimeter stopper with a penchant for low-bridging jump shooters (which was quasi-legal then) who nonetheless was the classic “low-stocks” perimeter defender — his specialty was denying your specialty, and he could be especially aggressive on the perimeter knowing that Duncan was behind him. Bowen was NBA All-Defensive First Team five straight times with San Antonio. Paired with Duncan, they led the league in defense in four of those seasons.
And then there’s Garnett. The snarling, menacing, “6-11” forward was too slight to be a physical force, but as the Mike D’Antonis of the league rescued the game from itself and spawned imitators, the Garnetts of the world became increasingly valuable. His combination of length and mobility allowed him to be in five places at once, it seemed, especially when he defended actions at the top of the key and would fly in for the defensive board. While he didn’t have the extended run of one-team awesomeness that Duncan enjoyed, one can argue the peak version of the Garnett experience was the most breathtaking thing the league has seen on this end of the floor since Olajuwon.
Garnett made 12 NBA All-Defensive teams and won a Defensive Player of her Year award, but that still doesn’t do justice to his impact. The younger Garnett in Minnesota was a freak perimeter defender who could comfortably check smaller players. He moved to a more traditional frontcourt role in Boston and might have been even better. His 2008 Celtics team was an all-time great defensive squad that finished a staggering 8.6 points per 100 better than the league average, and his teams had three more top-two finishes in Boston.
Finally, Wallace is an interesting study, a “center” who was listed at 6-9 and might have been a couple of inches shorter, and an undrafted player who was on the end of Washington’s bench for three years and eventually become a throw-in to the Grant Hill sign-and-trade.
Once he was unleashed as a rim-running, shot-blocking force in the middle, however, few have ever defended with more ferocity. He had a relatively short six-year prime in Detroit … but one that had him at the centerpiece of one of the dominant defensive teams ever. Detroit’s 2004 championship squad was suffocating, with Wallace guarding Shaquille O’Neal one-on-one in the NBA Finals and yet still barricading the rim against other Laker drives. The scores from that series are almost unfathomable; L.A. had prime Shaq and Kobe and was held to 80 or fewer points three times in five games.
How you feel about him in the pantheon of defensive greatness largely hinges on the quality vs. quantity argument, but the peak version of Wallace was as dominant as any player on this list. He won NBA Defensive Player of the Year four times in five years and finished a close second the other year, with Detroit finishing second, third, fourth and fifth in defensive efficiency in those seasons.
While the mobile bigs were the dominant feature of this era, there is one great point guard defender to discuss: Jason Kidd. At 6-4 with a strong frame, he had the size to guard bigger players and often did, even against elite wings. But Kidd’s real specialty was cat-and-mouse games off the ball. Few have ever been better at pestering a post player without double-teaming him, but being just enough of a pain to make him miserable. Kidd also specialized in two-handed steals, ripping the ball away from shocked players in one motion.
A good example of Kidd’s value was his trade from Phoenix to New Jersey. The Suns went from second in defense to 12th, while the Nets went from 23rd to first and made the NBA Finals. Kidd was relegated to the second-team All-Defensive for five of his nine selections, but some of these votes are dubious in retrospect (Larry Hughes!). Even well after his peak, he went to Dallas and was a major defensive force on a championship team in 2011. Kidd also ranks 12th all time in Defensive Win Shares, the highest of any perimeter player.
That finally takes us to our modern era. Even in the last decade, however, we’ve seen the game change, thanks to a proliferation of small ball and stretch 5s. Remember how Golden State tried to pull Eaton away from the hoop in the late 1980s? Well, we got a modern version of that in 2014 as an underdog Atlanta team realized that Indiana’s rim-protecting defensive ace, the massive 7-2 Roy Hibbert, couldn’t hang if his man stayed at the 3-point line. The idea quickly caught on. Hibbert was an absolute master of verticality who nearly helped the Pacers knock out a team with James and Dwyane Wade and finished second in the 2014 NBA Defensive Player of the Year voting. But within two years he’d be unplayable.
Instead, the spirit animal for this era is Draymond Green, a 6-7 forward with the strength and length to play center in “small” lineups but the mobility, hands and IQ to switch on any player 1 through 5. It’s harder to evaluate careers in mid-stream, but it’s safe to say Green will go down as one of the all-time great defenders, and certainly one of the smartest ever. His current tally stands at six NBA All-Defensive selections and one Defensive Player of the Year award, but he’ll surely add to that. Green led the league defensive BPM twice and is leading again this season, while his career mark ranks third all time.
The other “mobile quasi-center” of this era who warrants discussion is Giannis Antetokounmpo. Again, we’re evaluating now so it’s harder, but Giannis’s numbers from the past four seasons are ridiculous: two straight seasons leading the league in defensive BPM, an NBA Defensive Player of the Year trophy, an epic blocked shot in the 2021 NBA Finals and an eye test that shows this ain’t the dude you want to go after. As with Green, his ability to toggle between small-ball 5 and power forward adds significant value.
Nonetheless, even in this era, rim protectors are the most valuable defenders … as long as they can also move on the perimeter. One stands out, for his ability to shine as a traditional rim protector while showing the mobility to play in the modern game: Rudy Gobert. A three-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year winner and Green’s probable rival for the award this season, Gobert has the eighth-highest block rate of all time even while playing in an era where centers are routinely pulled 30 feet from the hoop. Thanks to our more detailed stats of the last decade or so in particular, we have a very strong circumstantial case that Gobert and Green have been a cut above everyone else as dominating defenders.
Despite a relatively short peak, the other big rim protector we shouldn’t overlook here is Dwight Howard, who won three straight NBA Defensive Player of the Year awards as the centerpiece of a defense that led the league in efficiency in 2009 and finished third the next two years.
Finally, it’s easy to forget that even a decade ago switching was far less common, and teams would often put their best defender on an island against an opponent’s elite scorer. We, of course, did this with Tony Allen, who managed to make six All-Defensive squads despite a series of injuries (he only played 70 games in a season five times) and was a key part of two different great defenses — first with Garnett in Boston, and then with us in Memphis, where he teamed with 2013 Defensive Player of the Year Marc Gasol. Gasol was an interesting combination; he wasn’t a traditional above-the-rim shot-blocker, but was an awesome low-post defender and a high IQ pick-and-roll defender with just enough mobility to hedge and recover.
Allen might be the best I’ve ever seen at chasing players through screens, but on the ball the standout defender from this era has to be The Claw. Kawhi Leonard had length, feet, strength and tenacity, plus giant vise-grip hands that ripped the ball away from fools with robotic efficiency.
All that puts Leonard 14th on the career defensive BPM leader board, the highest of any non-center, despite a series of injuries; he has also defended MVP caliber players in playoff settings with great success. Leonard won NBA Defensive Player of the Year twice, but has only two seasons where he played more than 66 games and only 178 over the past five seasons; one hopes we’ll see him back on the court more regularly.
All of which leaves one player I haven’t talked about yet. Yes, LeBron. He’s a difficult player to rate in the traditional sense, as he’s often been in chill mode in the regular season before unleashing holy terror in the playoffs and thus has a more limited award résumé (five first-team selections, no DPOY trophies) than you might think. Certainly, his portf0lio of chase-down blocks is second to none, highlighted, of course, by the championship-saving swat on Andre Iguodala in 2016.
While he’s certainly the greatest player of the current century, and his sheer career length has him as an all-timer in career win shares, his peak-season defensive résumé is somewhat light compared to the likes of Gobert, Leonard, Antetokounmpo and Green; I’d categorize him closer to Jordan as a peak “big moment” defender.
So after all that, only a fool would try to rank the top 25 defensive players in history.
I am that fool.
Here’s one man’s undoubtedly flawed assessment of the top 25 defenders in league annals:
Bill Russell Hakeem Olajuwon Tim Duncan Kevin Garnett Rudy Gobert Scottie Pippen Draymond Green David Robinson Ben Wallace Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Dennis Rodman Bobby Jones Jason Kidd Wilt Chamberlain Kawhi Leonard Giannis Antetokounmpo Michael Jordan LeBron James Dikembe Mutombo Sidney Moncrief Dennis Johnson Dwight Howard Gary Payton Bruce Bowen (tie) Marc Gasol and Tony Allen
― circles, Sunday, 30 January 2022 00:14 (two years ago) link
watching the rodman/pippen bulls guarding people was so much fun
― i cannot help if you made yourself not funny (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 30 January 2022 00:35 (two years ago) link
some of the hakeem clips he linked to were crazy. it would be fun to see some of those guys like he & KG playing now where their athleticism and length would be even more weaponized
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 30 January 2022 02:57 (two years ago) link
everyone in the comments to that piece are somehow very mad that nate thurmond wasn't on the list
― symsymsym, Sunday, 30 January 2022 05:01 (two years ago) link
John Collins’ injury dilemma poses a valid question regarding the Hawks: ‘At this point, am I hurting or helping?’
Mar 11, 2022; Atlanta, Georgia, USA; Atlanta Hawks forward John Collins (20) attempts a three point basket against LA Clippers center Ivica Zubac (40) during the second quarter at State Farm Arena. Mandatory Credit: Jason Getz-USA TODAY SportsBy Chris Kirschner 6h ago 24 John Collins’ knuckle on his right ring finger looks as if it’s been inflated with an air pump. It’s over twice the size of his left ring finger. It can’t be properly straightened and he can’t bend it.
He spreads his hand out, looks down and finds sarcasm to ease the palpable frustration.
“It’s obviously not perfect, to say it in the simplest of sense,” Collins said on Saturday. “It’s obviously tough to play basketball with this.”
Collins has played with sprained fingers in the past, but never to this extreme. He played with a sprained finger in last season’s playoffs, still able to bend it but playing through the pain. He underwent an X-ray on his finger last week, and the results came back negative.
Deepak Chona, an orthopedic surgeon at Stanford University and the founder of SportsMedAnalytics, said Collins has a boutonnière deformity on his ring finger after examining an image provided to The Athletic. It’s related to a sprain but involves the structures that hold the tendons in place, so, essentially the person has trouble straightening the middle joint of the finger. It’s generally treated with the use of a splint full time, ranging from four to six weeks, followed by part-time use of the splint for another few weeks until the joint is able to straighten on its own. Surgery is needed in special cases, for instance, if the bone underneath the tendon is fractured, but that’s not common.
Chona said if Collins continues to play through this injury, his finger will not be able to undergo any meaningful healing, even over the course of several weeks, because the treatment requires the finger to be immobilized in a splint for the tissue to heal. The best-case scenario would be to hope for minimal partial healing in about two to three weeks and moderate improvement in his shooting with Collins becoming used to his shooting hand being compromised.
In Chona’s opinion, it’s “almost definite” Collins and the Hawks should not expect anywhere close to the efficiency Collins displayed prior to this injury. And that’s where the predicament starts for Atlanta. Before sitting out Sunday’s game, Collins played against Milwaukee and the LA Clippers with his finger taped, and the results were awful. He missed all of his jump-shots in both games, and he wasn’t particularly close, either. Most of his attempts were this far off:
It wasn’t just his shooting that took a hit either. He had difficulty squeezing the ball on contested rebounds and on some passes. On top of that, he’s also still dealing with a foot injury that doesn’t appear to be getting better. He missed seven games with a foot strain from Feb. 13 through March 3.
Collins said the Hawks’ medical staff has told him his foot strain is a pain-management injury, and there’s nothing it can do to treat it unless he completely rests. The pain will continue to linger if he doesn’t sit out.
The Hawks are in the middle of a Play-In Tournament race where seeding could be the difference between playing Brooklyn — with Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving — in a do-or-die game or, say, Charlotte or Cleveland. Atlanta is typically at its best with Collins in the lineup. Four out of the team’s top five lineups this season all feature Collins. He has established himself as one of the league’s most efficient offensive players, shooting 72 percent at the rim, 44 percent in the midrange and 37 percent from 3. There’s also a massive downgrade defensively if his backup, Danilo Gallinari, is out there instead. The Hawks are 1.9 points per 100 possessions better defensively with Collins on the floor and 1.6 points per 100 possessions worse defensively when Gallinari is on the floor.
Atlanta’s defense, as a whole, is a disaster and likely won’t improve this season. That’s notable because in a playoff series or in a Play-In Tournament game(s), defense is going to be critical if this team has any chance of advancing far. Collins is one of the few good defenders on the Hawks, and his being limited in any capacity hurts their chances.
When asked what his thought process was on fighting through both injuries rather than resting, Collins admitted that it was tough for him to gauge. If the Hawks were out of the race, it wouldn’t be a difficult decision to make, but he wants to help Atlanta in the final stretch of the season.
“I’ve never had a foot injury like this where it’s prevented me more from wanting to put pressure on my foot,” Collins said. “I always feel like adrenaline and the playoffs, my body might be more adrenaline-filled and attack it in a different sense. I’m not 100 percent sure. My fucking foot still has some pain. It’s not perfect.
“I always feel like for the team to fulfill its potential, you want all your players to be there and be ready. I obviously feel like I want to play. I want to be out there and make winning plays for my team. I’m just trying to understand these pain-management injuries that are more delicate to understand. I just want to go out there and win. I’m trying to manage the pain the right way if I can’t do anything to alleviate it throughout the rest of the season. It’s tough. I don’t want to come in here and be upset or angry because I’m not feeling well. I want to fix it if I can. It hasn’t been easy on me mentally to figure out what I want to do.”
Collins said his finger has progressively gotten worse because he’s jammed it in practices and games since he initially hurt it in the Detroit game. Because the finger isn’t close to healing, he’ll have to work through not being able to grip the ball properly, which is what he’s battling now. For his foot, Collins doesn’t have the same bounce as we’ve come to expect.
The Collins we saw in the Bucks and Clippers games is a liability for a team needing to win as many games as possible in the final few weeks of the season. It’s something Collins realizes himself.
“I definitely feel like I can be feeling better, which I know would help the team out, but I feel like with what I can do — and this is why I’m trying to play for my team — I feel like I can add winning and positive things to the team,” Collins said. “But at this point, am I hurting or helping? Am I going out there in the right mindset, not only my body, but am I mentally ready to play to help my team win? Or, am I too concerned about my mental state and am I hurting the team? That’s why I am trying my best to understand how I feel, because I want to help my teammates. It’s not easy.
“We’re more than likely heading for the Play-In. This isn’t last year where we secured a playoff spot. It’s a different situation. Every game counts more than ever for us. It’s damn tough. I want to rest. I want to feel right. But I know in an 82-game season, it’s not always going to be the case to feel 100 percent. If I am feeling this way, I would like to take care of it. If I’m not, I want to go out there and make sure I’m not hurting my team. It’s part of life of being a competitor and wanting to be out there. Basketball is my whole life. I want to play. I just want to make the right decision.”
Nate McMillan didn’t give any update on Collins’ availability for Monday’s game against Portland other than saying he’ll be a game-time decision. The Hawks should be concerned that even if Collins does press forward and play through these injuries, they’re getting a very limited version of one of their most important players.
This is what could decide the Hawks’ postseason hopes. They need Collins at full strength for a deep run, but the likelihood of him being 100 percent healthy is far away.
― lag∞n, Monday, 14 March 2022 19:57 (two years ago) link
thanks (i guess)!
― Heez, Monday, 14 March 2022 21:10 (two years ago) link
hollinger’s award picks
Most Valuable Player: Nikola Jokić, Denver NuggetsA quick reminder before we start: This award is for the Most Valuable Player in the 2021-22 regular season. It is not for the player you think will be the best in the playoffs, or was the best player in last year’s playoffs, or for the guy who deserves it most because he hasn’t won yet, or for any other coded reason to avoid giving a second-straight trophy to the Joker.We’re getting increasing amounts of this type of chatter in the blabosphere right now, mainly from people who have consumed an average of 0.04 Nuggets telecasts this season. So, let’s cut to the chase: Jokić was the most valuable basketball player in the 2021-22 NBA regular season. As great as Antetokounmpo and Embiid have been this year, I don’t see how anyone could study this in an intellectually honest way and come to a different conclusion.The fact that Denver plays at an inconvenient time for a lot of people, plus its own ongoing local market TV blackout saga, has somewhat muted the discussion of what an insane, historic season Jokić is having. He’s been so good that even the phenomenal seasons by Embiid and Antetokounmpo still don’t quite stack up.Consider this: Jokić is the entire focal point of his team’s offense, and yet he leads all high-usage players in True Shooting Percentage, a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-pointers, and free throws. He’s running Denver’s offense from the center position, on a club with no knockdown shooters in its core rotation, and it works well enough that the Nuggets are sixth in offense. He’s put up box score lines like 37-13-9, 39-19-8, 41-17-4 and 38-18-6 … this week!Aesthetically, if you cut a mix of the best NBA passes from this season, they’d all just be Joker dimes. Even the Lukas and LeBrons of the world seem like rank amateurs compared to the Joker; as a passer, he’s on a completely different level. The question is no longer whether Jokić’s the best passing big man in league history; it’s where he ranks among the best passers, period.The passing is awesome, but I also don’t think people understand how crazy Jokić’s shooting efficiency has been. He has a 66.0 percent True Shooting mark, or .660 if you move the decimal point. It’s not just that it leads all high-usage players, it’s that nobody is even close. Of the league’s top 75 players in usage this year – a pretty broad sample – Karl-Anthony Towns (.642) is the only one within 20 percentage points of Jokić. Again, he’s doing this on a team where every opponent’s entire game plan is to go kitchen sink at Jokić.I say all this to underscore some of the “why” of how virtually every alphabet-soup metric available has Jokić rated as the top player in the league, and in fact, as having posted one of the best seasons in all of NBA history. No, this isn’t just some bug in the program.Speaking of those metrics, Jokić is on track to break the PER record, set by Antetokounmpo two years ago, and the BPM record, set by James in 2008-09. (Mind-blowing stat while we’re here: Jokic leads the league in defensive BPM. He’s not some pudgy dude getting cooked in pick-and-rolls anymore, folks. Among centers, only Bam Adebayo has a higher steal rate.)If the quality argument doesn’t win you over, the quantity argument should. Jokić is also doing this while playing more minutes than nearly every other star – he has played 301 more minutes than Giannis and 218 more than Embiid. That’s about a nine-game edge on the former and seven games on the latter, which is a big deal in an 82-game season. Giannis and Embiid have both been brilliant, don’t get me wrong — in any other year each would be a shoo-in MVP — but right now Jokić has quality and quantity on his side.For those still resisting a vote for Jokić, riddle me this. How do you reconcile Denver (47-33) having nearly the same record as Philadelphia (49-30) and Milwaukee (49-30) despite what would appear to be an inferior supporting cast? The Nuggets are headed toward 48 or 49 wins even though they have two max contracts on the sidelines and an unshakeable addiction to playing Austin Rivers. Their next-best available option after Jokić was previously the third-best player on the Orlando Magic. Amazingly, nobody on this year’s Nuggets has a positive BPM except Jokić, while only Aaron Gordon has a PER above the league average.In a related story, the Nuggets crumble into dust without their star center in a way that doesn’t happen in Milwaukee or even Philly. I know Sixers fans fret deeply that their team is outscored by 3.7 points per 100 possessions in the non-Embiid minutes. In Denver, the non-Jokić minutes number is minus 7.3.I feel for Embiid here especially, as he’s never won the award and had a year that normally would make him an automatic pick. But the Joker has been even better. He’s the MVP.Most Valuable Player1. Nikola Jokić, Nuggets2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Bucks3. Joel Embiid, 76ers4. Luka Dončić, Mavericks5. Jayson Tatum, CelticsAll-NBA TeamI ended up with 16 players for 15 spots and wasn’t really sure how to settle it. And it turns out, these decisions will actually matter – to the tune of about $35 million in Trae Young’s case.We also have the issue of position eligibility to deal with, which brings up the question of … why? If you’re going to make Embiid and Jokić both eligible at forward — a position neither has played for one minute the entire season — then don’t have positions at all. For some reason, the league has a lot of trouble figuring out who plays what position (witness: every All-Star ballot), and it should dispense with this entirely. Doing so would have no material impact on the voting that I can see.If we allow ourselves to put Embiid and Jokić on the first team (and there is no way I’m demoting one after the year each of them had), then there is only one difficult choice on the first team. Antetokounmpo and Dončić are no-brainers, but the last spot is a toss-up.I went with Jayson Tatum over Devin Booker here. While I’m strongly tempted by the idea of rewarding Phoenix’s season-long dominance and superior clutch play, this is an individual award. Tatum has had the better season by most metrics, and by my eyes, and has also appeared in more games.The second team, meanwhile, becomes something of a part-timers’ club; Booker joins Ja Morant, Stephen Curry, LeBron James and Kevin Durant on the “probably would have been first-team if they played all year” squad. Except for one thing: none of them are eligible at center. So I have to bump up Karl-Anthony Towns to the second team and push Durant, who played the fewest games of this quintet (52), to the third team.That decision then streamlines our choices for the third team; Durant, obviously, and Rudy Gobert as the third center. DeMar DeRozan and Jimmy Butler are must-adds. The only lingering question is whether to go with Young or Chris Paul for the final spot, my 15th and 16th players. I went for Young here based on durability and that he is a one-man offense for a team whose role players mostly went south.First TeamJayson Tatum, CelticsLuka Dončić, MavericksGiannis Antetokounmpo, BucksNikola Jokić, NuggetsJoel Embiid, 76ersSecond TeamJa Morant, GrizzliesStephen Curry, WarriorsDevin Booker, SunsLeBron James, LakersKarl-Anthony Towns, TimberwolvesThird TeamTrae Young, HawksJimmy Butler, HeatDeMar DeRozan, BullsKevin Durant, NetsRudy Gobert, JazzEvan Mobley (David Richard / USA Today)Rookie of the Year: Evan Mobley, Cleveland CavaliersAs I noted yesterday, we have a pretty amazing rookie class this year. But only one of them can win the award.So, before we go any further, this is the part where I have to remind you that it’s Rookie of the Year, not Rookie of the Last Six Weeks, or Rookie of Next Year, or Rookie Who Will Have the Best Career.Thus, a body of work matters. Jalen Green’s last few weeks have been electric, but he was also a destructively bad player for two-thirds of the season. To a lesser extent, we can say the same thing about Cade Cunningham. His March stats are awesome, but Cunningham has a full-season line with a 13.0 PER, 50.5 True Shooting Percentage and an alarming turnover rate for a 23-win team.When we evaluate the year, as a whole, it’s pretty clear that two players — Cleveland’s Evan Mobley and Toronto’s Scottie Barnes — stand head and shoulders above the rest. Barnes and Mobley played major, impactful roles on playoff teams, were the keys to the defensive strategy for each and were statistically superior to the rest of the rookie crop over the course of the season.Impact stats tend to back up the idea that these were the top rookies, but they also make a further distinction in favor of Mobley. It’s just not normal for a rookie to factor into the Defensive Player of the Year discussion; I’ll refer you to my October piece salivating over Mobley basically being a one-man zone defense covering the entire court.Cleveland was 25th in defense a year ago. This year, the Cavs are sixth. It remains to be seen who will have the best career among this stellar draft class, but Mobley was the most outstanding rookie.Rookie of the Year1. Evan Mobley, Cavaliers2. Scottie Barnes, Raptors3. Cade Cunningham, PistonsAll-Rookie TeamI’m not going to spend a lot of time litigating this; I put Josh Giddey on the second team because he missed a little too much time relative to the other guys. Also, nobody really talks about Franz Wagner because the Magic were such a dull watch this year, but he was really good and shouldn’t be forgotten here.First TeamCade Cunningham, PistonsScottie Barnes, RaptorsEvan Mobley, CavaliersFranz Wagner, MagicJalen Green, RocketsSecond TeamJosh Giddey, ThunderHerb Jones, PelicansChris Duarte, PacersBones Hyland, NuggetsAyo Dosunmu, BullsDefensive Player of the Year: Jaren Jackson, Jr., Memphis GrizzliesThere was an obvious choice for NBA Defensive Player of the Year, until there wasn’t. Draymond Green was awesome for half the season, and seemingly a no-brainer selection for the award. Unfortunately, injuries intervened. Green has only played 43 games, and since returning in March from injury, he hasn’t quite been the snarling, all-encompassing force he was in the season’s first two months.What made Green so valuable, however, was his ability to spearhead the defense from either the four or five position. While the league featured several prominent bigs who put together compelling defensive seasons, the positional versatility offered by Green gave the Warriors a major “go-big-or-go-small” advantage.Fortunately, there is another Michigan State product we can nominate here who provided the same flexibility. You’re gonna call homer on me for picking Jackson but look at the data. Jackson is a major reason the Grizzlies are 20-3 in games Ja Morant missed, and also the biggest reason Memphis has the league’s fourth-ranked defense. As a defensive playmaker, he was rivaled by few this year. Consider, first, that Jackson led the NBA in block rate while not playing center (mostly), an amazing feat in this four-out era. Jackson also led the NBA in “stocks” by a wide margin. Additionally, opponents only shot 49.7 percent at the rim this year with Jackson lurking, the best percentage in the league.Sheer playing time is a real differentiator here, too, which is an odd point to bring up in Jackson’s favor given how his first three seasons went. While foul trouble is still an obstacle for him at times, he’s played 2,081 minutes this season … 277 more than Robert Williams, and 289 more than Adebayo. He’d have even more minutes under his belt if it weren’t for the Grizzlies’ frequent blowouts that leave Jackson watching Yves Pons and Xavier Tillman mop-up fourth quarters. Jackson averages just 27.4 minutes per game but was available 74 times in the team’s first 75 contests before a couple of recent “rest” nights as Memphis prepares for the playoffs.That minutes advantage is a real distinguishing feature of his candidacy vis-a-vis Williams or Adebayo, as is his positional flexibility. (Although Bam can play some four.)Also, any discussion of this award must automatically reference Rudy Gobert, who was again awesome this year, even if he slipped a bit from his peak. Gobert rates as the top defender in a couple of alphabet-soup ratings, and Utah’s defense once again turned into sawdust any time he checked out. The difference is that Gobert has only played 63 games this year and that he’s a one-position player.Finally, while we’re here: there’s been a lot of “Why can’t a guard win Defensive Player of The Year” chatter, but it turns out that the game of basketball tends to favor tall people. This is particularly true on the defensive side of the floor. That is why centers tend to win Defensive Player of the Year; the lack of guards to win this trophy is about as much a mystery as the lack of 6-foot-4 jockeys or 138-pound linebackers.One could argue that a guard could have a strong case if he was so much better relative to other guards that he still conveyed a massive defensive advantage to his team. And while Marcus Smart has become a bit of a cause célèbre this year in regard to this discussion, I’m not sure he’s created such a gulf to warrant that kind of vote. Should Smart be a first-team All-Defense pick this year? Yes, clearly. Is the difference between him and, say, Jrue Holiday or Alex Caruso, a wide-enough gulf to rate him over the switching, multidimensional velociraptors discussed above? I don’t think so.Defensive Player of the Year1. Jaren Jackson, Jr., Grizzlies2. Rudy Gobert, Jazz3. Bam Adebayo, HeatPhoto of Jaren Jackson Jr. blocking Rudy Gobert: Chris Gardner/Getty ImagesAll-Defensive TeamAgain, injuries are a massive story up and down this list. Alex Caruso and Lonzo Ball might have been the first-team backcourt if not for their injuries; they’ve only played 76 games combined. Paul George has been awesome, but only for 29 games. Myles Turner swatted everything in sight, but once again, he only played in 42 contests.So let’s give a special shoutout to Phoenix’s Mikal Bridges, who proved himself as an elite wing stopper for the league’s best team while leading the league in minutes played.Tough choices abound in the frontcourt, where I have to weigh a half-season of Draymond Green’s awesomeness against the totality of Evan Mobley’s campaign, and where Robert Williams has to be left off the list entirely to make way for two other elite centers.First TeamG Marcus Smart, CelticsG Jrue Holiday, BucksF Mikal Bridges, SunsF Jaren Jackson, Jr., GrizzliesC Rudy Gobert, JazzSecond TeamG Chris Paul, SunsG Kyle Lowry, HeatF Matisse Thybulle, 76ersF Evan Mobley, CavaliersC Bam Adebayo, HeatSixth Man of the Year: Kevin Love, Cleveland CavaliersThe best way to handle this award would be to just drop the trophy in Memphis and let about six players split it. But if we must hand it over to a single person, it has to be Love.There seems to be a chorus that is convinced that Tyler Herro is a shoo-in for this award and, based on previous years’ voting, I can see why. It would be yet another example of the weird emphasis on scoring averages (or “yay points” as our Seth Partnow puts it) that has infected any discussion of this award for about two decades now. Herro, as well as last year’s winner, Jordan Clarkson, are the league’s only two players with more than 1,000 points off the bench this year. So, what, they’re the only two people we can select?Stop the madness, people. Being a sixth man isn’t just about coming out flinging. Herro’s 20.6 scoring average off the pine is impressive, but he’s basically operated as a high-volume, middling-at-best efficiency possession sponge, while his defense makes him a popular target for opposing offenses.As for Love, he may trail Herro in points per game, but smokes the field on every available advanced metric. It’s been an important impact, too. His return to being a floor-spacing, rebounding, out-letting menace is one of the biggest reasons the Cavaliers are a winning team again.Love has only played 1,629 minutes to Herro’s 2,118, and that’s a significant difference. But in terms of effectiveness, it’s not even close. Love is shooting 38.5 percent from 3 on career-high volume, rebounding like a center and diming people up when his shot isn’t there (4.8 assists per 100 is elite stuff from a big). Overall, his 19.1 PER and 4.1 BPM lap the field.Another player I think needs a strong look here is Phoenix’s Cameron Johnson, who like Love trails Herro by more than 400 minutes, but has outperformed him pretty significantly in terms of two-way impact.I don’t mean to dump on Herro – he’s having a good year! The Heat are really good! But this award isn’t reserved for the backup guard who jacks the most shots, despite what recent history may indicate. The voting mindset for this award has become increasingly weird over the past several years and it’s long past time to inject some rationality. Love should be a fairly obvious pick here, and I find it really odd that he doesn’t seem to be.Sixth Man of the Year1. Kevin Love, Cavaliers2. Cameron Johnson, Suns3. Tyler Herro, HeatDejounte Murray (Soobum Im / USA Today)Most Improved Player: Dejounte Murray, San Antonio SpursI generally loathe this award, but if required to vote on it I’ll pull the lever for Murray. It is one thing for players in their second or third season to make a major jump, as Ja Morant, Desmond Bane and Darius Garland did. For a player to do it in year six? That’s a different animal.Murray made more than half his 2s for the first time in his career, shot a respectable 33.0 percent from 3 on increased volume and massively spiked both his assist and scoring rates. In the Spurs’ post-DeRozan world, he took on a much-greater scoring responsibility but was also more efficient. Murray’s PER jumped from 16.5 to 22.4; his BPM from 0.8 to 5.5. He single-handedly dragged an otherwise tanky roster into the postseason, if only for a day, and none of the changes look fluky or unsustainable.The other prominent player to mention here is Boston’s Robert Williams. The fourth-year center went from occasional starter to Defensive Player of the Year candidate and keyed the Celtics’ transformation into a defensive juggernaut.Also, keep an eye on Herro here when the actual vote comes out. I don’t actually think he improved enough to get on the ballot, but he was my preseason pick to finish second in the MIP voting.As we all know, picking the runner-up in an obscure category is the pinnacle of basketball nerdom, the NBA equivalent to picking the NIT runner-up before the season starts. This is my Super Bowl.Most Improved Player1. Dejounte Murray, Spurs2. Robert Williams, Celtics3. Ja Morant, GrizzliesCoach of the Year: Monty Williams, Phoenix SunsI’m trying to avoid having this be the “team that most exceeded expectations trophy.” With apologies to Chris Finch in Minnesota and J.B. Bickerstaff in Cleveland, who both did fine jobs this year, I can’t quite get you guys in my top three. Boston’s Ime Udoka is another name I wanted to get onto my ballot and couldn’t quite find room for; the Celtics’ transformation in the second half of the season under his leadership has been impressive, and the defensive system he implemented has a lot to do with it.Three coaches stand at the top of my ladder. Let’s start in Memphis; the Grizzlies are 20-3 without their best player, and while the depth of their roster is the biggest factor, also credit Taylor Jenkins’ willingness to use them. This year’s Grizzlies have a rare combination of joy and selflessness, especially for a group so young, and Jenkins has to get major credit for nurturing that, and for the player development that has led to big jumps from players like Bane and De’Anthony Melton.And yet, I would argue two coaches might warrant ranking higher on the ballot. Miami has overcome a myriad of injuries to its best players and somehow has the best record in the East, despite frequently cobbling together lineups with two-ways and reclamation projects. This year, Erik Spoelstra and his staff have shown the full package of coaching mastery – developing players like Max Strus and Gabe Vincent, instilling a crazy mindset on defense that has players taking charges seemingly every other play, and having the stones to make rotation shifts (such as the recent benching of Duncan Robinson) even with key players involved.Finally, at the top, it has to be Monty Williams. We screwed up not giving him the trophy last year. Not only has his team lapped the league in the standings, but also the Suns have done it with the league’s best late-game execution at both ends. Phoenix has had injuries too, believe it or not – it just doesn’t seem that way because the Suns have carved up the league so easily.Coach of the Year1. Monty Williams, Suns2. Erik Spoelstra, Heat3. Taylor Jenkins, Grizzlies
A quick reminder before we start: This award is for the Most Valuable Player in the 2021-22 regular season. It is not for the player you think will be the best in the playoffs, or was the best player in last year’s playoffs, or for the guy who deserves it most because he hasn’t won yet, or for any other coded reason to avoid giving a second-straight trophy to the Joker.
We’re getting increasing amounts of this type of chatter in the blabosphere right now, mainly from people who have consumed an average of 0.04 Nuggets telecasts this season. So, let’s cut to the chase: Jokić was the most valuable basketball player in the 2021-22 NBA regular season. As great as Antetokounmpo and Embiid have been this year, I don’t see how anyone could study this in an intellectually honest way and come to a different conclusion.
The fact that Denver plays at an inconvenient time for a lot of people, plus its own ongoing local market TV blackout saga, has somewhat muted the discussion of what an insane, historic season Jokić is having. He’s been so good that even the phenomenal seasons by Embiid and Antetokounmpo still don’t quite stack up.
Consider this: Jokić is the entire focal point of his team’s offense, and yet he leads all high-usage players in True Shooting Percentage, a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-pointers, and free throws. He’s running Denver’s offense from the center position, on a club with no knockdown shooters in its core rotation, and it works well enough that the Nuggets are sixth in offense. He’s put up box score lines like 37-13-9, 39-19-8, 41-17-4 and 38-18-6 … this week!
Aesthetically, if you cut a mix of the best NBA passes from this season, they’d all just be Joker dimes. Even the Lukas and LeBrons of the world seem like rank amateurs compared to the Joker; as a passer, he’s on a completely different level. The question is no longer whether Jokić’s the best passing big man in league history; it’s where he ranks among the best passers, period.
The passing is awesome, but I also don’t think people understand how crazy Jokić’s shooting efficiency has been. He has a 66.0 percent True Shooting mark, or .660 if you move the decimal point. It’s not just that it leads all high-usage players, it’s that nobody is even close. Of the league’s top 75 players in usage this year – a pretty broad sample – Karl-Anthony Towns (.642) is the only one within 20 percentage points of Jokić. Again, he’s doing this on a team where every opponent’s entire game plan is to go kitchen sink at Jokić.
I say all this to underscore some of the “why” of how virtually every alphabet-soup metric available has Jokić rated as the top player in the league, and in fact, as having posted one of the best seasons in all of NBA history. No, this isn’t just some bug in the program.
Speaking of those metrics, Jokić is on track to break the PER record, set by Antetokounmpo two years ago, and the BPM record, set by James in 2008-09. (Mind-blowing stat while we’re here: Jokic leads the league in defensive BPM. He’s not some pudgy dude getting cooked in pick-and-rolls anymore, folks. Among centers, only Bam Adebayo has a higher steal rate.)
If the quality argument doesn’t win you over, the quantity argument should. Jokić is also doing this while playing more minutes than nearly every other star – he has played 301 more minutes than Giannis and 218 more than Embiid. That’s about a nine-game edge on the former and seven games on the latter, which is a big deal in an 82-game season. Giannis and Embiid have both been brilliant, don’t get me wrong — in any other year each would be a shoo-in MVP — but right now Jokić has quality and quantity on his side.
For those still resisting a vote for Jokić, riddle me this. How do you reconcile Denver (47-33) having nearly the same record as Philadelphia (49-30) and Milwaukee (49-30) despite what would appear to be an inferior supporting cast? The Nuggets are headed toward 48 or 49 wins even though they have two max contracts on the sidelines and an unshakeable addiction to playing Austin Rivers. Their next-best available option after Jokić was previously the third-best player on the Orlando Magic. Amazingly, nobody on this year’s Nuggets has a positive BPM except Jokić, while only Aaron Gordon has a PER above the league average.
In a related story, the Nuggets crumble into dust without their star center in a way that doesn’t happen in Milwaukee or even Philly. I know Sixers fans fret deeply that their team is outscored by 3.7 points per 100 possessions in the non-Embiid minutes. In Denver, the non-Jokić minutes number is minus 7.3.
I feel for Embiid here especially, as he’s never won the award and had a year that normally would make him an automatic pick. But the Joker has been even better. He’s the MVP.
Most Valuable Player1. Nikola Jokić, Nuggets2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Bucks3. Joel Embiid, 76ers4. Luka Dončić, Mavericks5. Jayson Tatum, Celtics
All-NBA Team
I ended up with 16 players for 15 spots and wasn’t really sure how to settle it. And it turns out, these decisions will actually matter – to the tune of about $35 million in Trae Young’s case.
We also have the issue of position eligibility to deal with, which brings up the question of … why? If you’re going to make Embiid and Jokić both eligible at forward — a position neither has played for one minute the entire season — then don’t have positions at all. For some reason, the league has a lot of trouble figuring out who plays what position (witness: every All-Star ballot), and it should dispense with this entirely. Doing so would have no material impact on the voting that I can see.
If we allow ourselves to put Embiid and Jokić on the first team (and there is no way I’m demoting one after the year each of them had), then there is only one difficult choice on the first team. Antetokounmpo and Dončić are no-brainers, but the last spot is a toss-up.
I went with Jayson Tatum over Devin Booker here. While I’m strongly tempted by the idea of rewarding Phoenix’s season-long dominance and superior clutch play, this is an individual award. Tatum has had the better season by most metrics, and by my eyes, and has also appeared in more games.
The second team, meanwhile, becomes something of a part-timers’ club; Booker joins Ja Morant, Stephen Curry, LeBron James and Kevin Durant on the “probably would have been first-team if they played all year” squad. Except for one thing: none of them are eligible at center. So I have to bump up Karl-Anthony Towns to the second team and push Durant, who played the fewest games of this quintet (52), to the third team.
That decision then streamlines our choices for the third team; Durant, obviously, and Rudy Gobert as the third center. DeMar DeRozan and Jimmy Butler are must-adds. The only lingering question is whether to go with Young or Chris Paul for the final spot, my 15th and 16th players. I went for Young here based on durability and that he is a one-man offense for a team whose role players mostly went south.
First TeamJayson Tatum, CelticsLuka Dončić, MavericksGiannis Antetokounmpo, BucksNikola Jokić, NuggetsJoel Embiid, 76ers
Second TeamJa Morant, GrizzliesStephen Curry, WarriorsDevin Booker, SunsLeBron James, LakersKarl-Anthony Towns, Timberwolves
Third TeamTrae Young, HawksJimmy Butler, HeatDeMar DeRozan, BullsKevin Durant, NetsRudy Gobert, Jazz
Evan Mobley (David Richard / USA Today)Rookie of the Year: Evan Mobley, Cleveland Cavaliers
As I noted yesterday, we have a pretty amazing rookie class this year. But only one of them can win the award.
So, before we go any further, this is the part where I have to remind you that it’s Rookie of the Year, not Rookie of the Last Six Weeks, or Rookie of Next Year, or Rookie Who Will Have the Best Career.
Thus, a body of work matters. Jalen Green’s last few weeks have been electric, but he was also a destructively bad player for two-thirds of the season. To a lesser extent, we can say the same thing about Cade Cunningham. His March stats are awesome, but Cunningham has a full-season line with a 13.0 PER, 50.5 True Shooting Percentage and an alarming turnover rate for a 23-win team.
When we evaluate the year, as a whole, it’s pretty clear that two players — Cleveland’s Evan Mobley and Toronto’s Scottie Barnes — stand head and shoulders above the rest. Barnes and Mobley played major, impactful roles on playoff teams, were the keys to the defensive strategy for each and were statistically superior to the rest of the rookie crop over the course of the season.
Impact stats tend to back up the idea that these were the top rookies, but they also make a further distinction in favor of Mobley. It’s just not normal for a rookie to factor into the Defensive Player of the Year discussion; I’ll refer you to my October piece salivating over Mobley basically being a one-man zone defense covering the entire court.
Cleveland was 25th in defense a year ago. This year, the Cavs are sixth. It remains to be seen who will have the best career among this stellar draft class, but Mobley was the most outstanding rookie.
Rookie of the Year1. Evan Mobley, Cavaliers2. Scottie Barnes, Raptors3. Cade Cunningham, Pistons
All-Rookie Team
I’m not going to spend a lot of time litigating this; I put Josh Giddey on the second team because he missed a little too much time relative to the other guys. Also, nobody really talks about Franz Wagner because the Magic were such a dull watch this year, but he was really good and shouldn’t be forgotten here.
First TeamCade Cunningham, PistonsScottie Barnes, RaptorsEvan Mobley, CavaliersFranz Wagner, MagicJalen Green, Rockets
Second TeamJosh Giddey, ThunderHerb Jones, PelicansChris Duarte, PacersBones Hyland, NuggetsAyo Dosunmu, Bulls
Defensive Player of the Year: Jaren Jackson, Jr., Memphis Grizzlies
There was an obvious choice for NBA Defensive Player of the Year, until there wasn’t. Draymond Green was awesome for half the season, and seemingly a no-brainer selection for the award. Unfortunately, injuries intervened. Green has only played 43 games, and since returning in March from injury, he hasn’t quite been the snarling, all-encompassing force he was in the season’s first two months.
What made Green so valuable, however, was his ability to spearhead the defense from either the four or five position. While the league featured several prominent bigs who put together compelling defensive seasons, the positional versatility offered by Green gave the Warriors a major “go-big-or-go-small” advantage.
Fortunately, there is another Michigan State product we can nominate here who provided the same flexibility. You’re gonna call homer on me for picking Jackson but look at the data. Jackson is a major reason the Grizzlies are 20-3 in games Ja Morant missed, and also the biggest reason Memphis has the league’s fourth-ranked defense. As a defensive playmaker, he was rivaled by few this year. Consider, first, that Jackson led the NBA in block rate while not playing center (mostly), an amazing feat in this four-out era. Jackson also led the NBA in “stocks” by a wide margin. Additionally, opponents only shot 49.7 percent at the rim this year with Jackson lurking, the best percentage in the league.
Sheer playing time is a real differentiator here, too, which is an odd point to bring up in Jackson’s favor given how his first three seasons went. While foul trouble is still an obstacle for him at times, he’s played 2,081 minutes this season … 277 more than Robert Williams, and 289 more than Adebayo. He’d have even more minutes under his belt if it weren’t for the Grizzlies’ frequent blowouts that leave Jackson watching Yves Pons and Xavier Tillman mop-up fourth quarters. Jackson averages just 27.4 minutes per game but was available 74 times in the team’s first 75 contests before a couple of recent “rest” nights as Memphis prepares for the playoffs.
That minutes advantage is a real distinguishing feature of his candidacy vis-a-vis Williams or Adebayo, as is his positional flexibility. (Although Bam can play some four.)
Also, any discussion of this award must automatically reference Rudy Gobert, who was again awesome this year, even if he slipped a bit from his peak. Gobert rates as the top defender in a couple of alphabet-soup ratings, and Utah’s defense once again turned into sawdust any time he checked out. The difference is that Gobert has only played 63 games this year and that he’s a one-position player.
Finally, while we’re here: there’s been a lot of “Why can’t a guard win Defensive Player of The Year” chatter, but it turns out that the game of basketball tends to favor tall people. This is particularly true on the defensive side of the floor. That is why centers tend to win Defensive Player of the Year; the lack of guards to win this trophy is about as much a mystery as the lack of 6-foot-4 jockeys or 138-pound linebackers.
One could argue that a guard could have a strong case if he was so much better relative to other guards that he still conveyed a massive defensive advantage to his team. And while Marcus Smart has become a bit of a cause célèbre this year in regard to this discussion, I’m not sure he’s created such a gulf to warrant that kind of vote. Should Smart be a first-team All-Defense pick this year? Yes, clearly. Is the difference between him and, say, Jrue Holiday or Alex Caruso, a wide-enough gulf to rate him over the switching, multidimensional velociraptors discussed above? I don’t think so.
Defensive Player of the Year1. Jaren Jackson, Jr., Grizzlies2. Rudy Gobert, Jazz3. Bam Adebayo, Heat
Photo of Jaren Jackson Jr. blocking Rudy Gobert: Chris Gardner/Getty ImagesAll-Defensive Team
Again, injuries are a massive story up and down this list. Alex Caruso and Lonzo Ball might have been the first-team backcourt if not for their injuries; they’ve only played 76 games combined. Paul George has been awesome, but only for 29 games. Myles Turner swatted everything in sight, but once again, he only played in 42 contests.
So let’s give a special shoutout to Phoenix’s Mikal Bridges, who proved himself as an elite wing stopper for the league’s best team while leading the league in minutes played.
Tough choices abound in the frontcourt, where I have to weigh a half-season of Draymond Green’s awesomeness against the totality of Evan Mobley’s campaign, and where Robert Williams has to be left off the list entirely to make way for two other elite centers.
First TeamG Marcus Smart, CelticsG Jrue Holiday, BucksF Mikal Bridges, SunsF Jaren Jackson, Jr., GrizzliesC Rudy Gobert, Jazz
Second TeamG Chris Paul, SunsG Kyle Lowry, HeatF Matisse Thybulle, 76ersF Evan Mobley, CavaliersC Bam Adebayo, Heat
Sixth Man of the Year: Kevin Love, Cleveland Cavaliers
The best way to handle this award would be to just drop the trophy in Memphis and let about six players split it. But if we must hand it over to a single person, it has to be Love.
There seems to be a chorus that is convinced that Tyler Herro is a shoo-in for this award and, based on previous years’ voting, I can see why. It would be yet another example of the weird emphasis on scoring averages (or “yay points” as our Seth Partnow puts it) that has infected any discussion of this award for about two decades now. Herro, as well as last year’s winner, Jordan Clarkson, are the league’s only two players with more than 1,000 points off the bench this year. So, what, they’re the only two people we can select?
Stop the madness, people. Being a sixth man isn’t just about coming out flinging. Herro’s 20.6 scoring average off the pine is impressive, but he’s basically operated as a high-volume, middling-at-best efficiency possession sponge, while his defense makes him a popular target for opposing offenses.
As for Love, he may trail Herro in points per game, but smokes the field on every available advanced metric. It’s been an important impact, too. His return to being a floor-spacing, rebounding, out-letting menace is one of the biggest reasons the Cavaliers are a winning team again.
Love has only played 1,629 minutes to Herro’s 2,118, and that’s a significant difference. But in terms of effectiveness, it’s not even close. Love is shooting 38.5 percent from 3 on career-high volume, rebounding like a center and diming people up when his shot isn’t there (4.8 assists per 100 is elite stuff from a big). Overall, his 19.1 PER and 4.1 BPM lap the field.
Another player I think needs a strong look here is Phoenix’s Cameron Johnson, who like Love trails Herro by more than 400 minutes, but has outperformed him pretty significantly in terms of two-way impact.
I don’t mean to dump on Herro – he’s having a good year! The Heat are really good! But this award isn’t reserved for the backup guard who jacks the most shots, despite what recent history may indicate. The voting mindset for this award has become increasingly weird over the past several years and it’s long past time to inject some rationality. Love should be a fairly obvious pick here, and I find it really odd that he doesn’t seem to be.
Sixth Man of the Year1. Kevin Love, Cavaliers2. Cameron Johnson, Suns3. Tyler Herro, Heat
Dejounte Murray (Soobum Im / USA Today)Most Improved Player: Dejounte Murray, San Antonio Spurs
I generally loathe this award, but if required to vote on it I’ll pull the lever for Murray. It is one thing for players in their second or third season to make a major jump, as Ja Morant, Desmond Bane and Darius Garland did. For a player to do it in year six? That’s a different animal.
Murray made more than half his 2s for the first time in his career, shot a respectable 33.0 percent from 3 on increased volume and massively spiked both his assist and scoring rates. In the Spurs’ post-DeRozan world, he took on a much-greater scoring responsibility but was also more efficient. Murray’s PER jumped from 16.5 to 22.4; his BPM from 0.8 to 5.5. He single-handedly dragged an otherwise tanky roster into the postseason, if only for a day, and none of the changes look fluky or unsustainable.
The other prominent player to mention here is Boston’s Robert Williams. The fourth-year center went from occasional starter to Defensive Player of the Year candidate and keyed the Celtics’ transformation into a defensive juggernaut.
Also, keep an eye on Herro here when the actual vote comes out. I don’t actually think he improved enough to get on the ballot, but he was my preseason pick to finish second in the MIP voting.
As we all know, picking the runner-up in an obscure category is the pinnacle of basketball nerdom, the NBA equivalent to picking the NIT runner-up before the season starts. This is my Super Bowl.
Most Improved Player1. Dejounte Murray, Spurs2. Robert Williams, Celtics3. Ja Morant, Grizzlies
Coach of the Year: Monty Williams, Phoenix Suns
I’m trying to avoid having this be the “team that most exceeded expectations trophy.” With apologies to Chris Finch in Minnesota and J.B. Bickerstaff in Cleveland, who both did fine jobs this year, I can’t quite get you guys in my top three. Boston’s Ime Udoka is another name I wanted to get onto my ballot and couldn’t quite find room for; the Celtics’ transformation in the second half of the season under his leadership has been impressive, and the defensive system he implemented has a lot to do with it.
Three coaches stand at the top of my ladder. Let’s start in Memphis; the Grizzlies are 20-3 without their best player, and while the depth of their roster is the biggest factor, also credit Taylor Jenkins’ willingness to use them. This year’s Grizzlies have a rare combination of joy and selflessness, especially for a group so young, and Jenkins has to get major credit for nurturing that, and for the player development that has led to big jumps from players like Bane and De’Anthony Melton.
And yet, I would argue two coaches might warrant ranking higher on the ballot. Miami has overcome a myriad of injuries to its best players and somehow has the best record in the East, despite frequently cobbling together lineups with two-ways and reclamation projects. This year, Erik Spoelstra and his staff have shown the full package of coaching mastery – developing players like Max Strus and Gabe Vincent, instilling a crazy mindset on defense that has players taking charges seemingly every other play, and having the stones to make rotation shifts (such as the recent benching of Duncan Robinson) even with key players involved.
Finally, at the top, it has to be Monty Williams. We screwed up not giving him the trophy last year. Not only has his team lapped the league in the standings, but also the Suns have done it with the league’s best late-game execution at both ends. Phoenix has had injuries too, believe it or not – it just doesn’t seem that way because the Suns have carved up the league so easily.
Coach of the Year1. Monty Williams, Suns2. Erik Spoelstra, Heat3. Taylor Jenkins, Grizzlies
― k3vin k., Friday, 8 April 2022 10:09 (one year ago) link
Can I get a...
https://theathletic.com/3323396/2022/05/22/kevon-looney-playoffs-defense/
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Sunday, 22 May 2022 16:21 (one year ago) link
“Wrong guy!”
This was a favorite taunt of Warriors coaches and bored bench players a few seasons ago.
Here’s the scenario: Kevon Looney, finally past the two hip surgeries that stalled his early career, had nudged his way into the rotation. Opposing scorers viewed him as a target.
It made sense. Looney is a center without exceptional speed or rim-protection ability. He had no reputation. So guards would get him on a switch, clear the floor and begin their dribble attack, salivating at the matchup. That’s when you’d hear that familiar call bellowing from the Warriors’ bench area.
Spencer Dinwiddie is one of the three guards currently attacking Looney in these 2022 conference finals. Here is Dinwiddie, back in 2018 for the Nets, getting Looney on a switch, getting into his dribble package and failing to get past his right or left hip. The possession ends in a turnover.
The Warriors essentially gave up on Looney before his third season. They added Damian Jones and Jordan Bell in back-to-back drafts and already employed Zaza Pachulia, JaVale McGee and David West. Looney was the team’s sixth center without any clear future with the franchise. They declined his fourth-year option, the clearest sign that a front office has pulled the plug on a young prospect.
“Didn’t see it (the first two seasons) because he wasn’t out there,” Kerr said. “He had two hip surgeries and we didn’t know what we had. Then his third year he has a great year and it’s like, ‘Uh oh, we might lose this guy.'”
But before they expected to lose Looney in unrestricted free agency — where they weren’t permitted to offer him anything more than the price of that declined fourth-year option — they found him as an essential rotation player in the 2018 conference finals against a matchup, the 2018 Houston Rockets, that they’ve repeatedly compared to the 2022 Dallas Mavericks in recent days.
The Rockets surrounded James Harden and Chris Paul with versatile defenders who could shoot. When the Warriors deployed a switching attack, they targeted centers. By the middle of the series, McGee, Pachulia and West were deemed nearly unplayable. But the Warriors didn’t want to go with Draymond Green at center the entire game. So they needed Looney. He’d proven to be their most stable center in a switching environment.
Here is Harden — in his prime, much quicker on the drive — during a late-clock scenario in the first quarter of Game 1. Looney has already switched out onto him. Harden tries an array of dribble moves, but a patient Looney doesn’t bite on any of them. It’s part of his defensive effectiveness. He isn’t jumpy. He isn’t block- or steal-thirsty. He’ll stand there while you try to fake him out.
The possession leads to a late-clock pass out from Harden, a pass back to him and a stepback, well-contested 3.
Similar to the current Mavericks with Jalen Brunson, there was a second scorer who regularly went after Looney in that matchup. Here is a younger Chris Paul early in Game 5 only finding his way to a contested 19-foot baseline fadeaway over Looney’s long arm.
Looney, you’ll notice, is much skinnier then. He was considered a forward when he entered the draft. The league forced him to upsize into a center for survival. He’s bulked up in recent years to better handle the position. The Warriors drafted James Wiseman to take over the center spot, but Wiseman’s career has yet to take off.
So, ending his seventh season, entering another unrestricted free agency this summer, it’s still the stable Looney as the switchable backbone of the Warriors’ defense, still holding up against switches despite his bulked-up frame.
“I’m pretty much kind of the same,” Looney said. “I take kind of the same approach. I’m just a little bit more battle-tested. That was my first time playing on a big stage like this (in 2018). I don’t know if even my teammates had the most faith in me, but they put me out there and I handled it pretty well. Those experiences got me ready for things today and I feel a lot more confident being out there guarding guards.”
Looney is a film junkie. He studies tendencies and asks veterans like Andre Iguodala how best to guard each particular player.
“I’m just a little bit smarter and a little bit more physical now,” he said. “So I’m able to guard those guys a little bit better.”
Here is Looney against Dončić in Game 1. He gets him on a switch and shades him to go left. That’s part of the Warriors’ scouting report. Looney’s gameplan discipline, according to coaches, is probably the best on the team. He doesn’t mess up instructions.
Looney doesn’t go after a steal and leave himself vulnerable. Because of his wingspan — 7-foot-4 — he’s always in position to at least get a decent contest on a stepback 3. If a player drives, Looney pretty much always funnels him into help. On this possession, he shuts off Dončić’s stepback and Steph Curry is there for the strip.
Here is Looney against Brunson in Game 2. This is about as well as you’ll see a center track and contest a guard on a drive.
Stan Van Gundy, calling the game, spent much of the second half of Game 2 wondering aloud why the Mavericks kept going after Looney instead of Curry or Jordan Poole or others. Van Gundy probably should’ve just been screaming “Wrong guy!” from the sideline. But Looney doesn’t expect the Mavericks to adjust. Teams have always stayed on the attack against him. He expects it in Game 3.
“Luka, Brunson and Dinwiddie are all different type of players, different type of iso players,” Looney said. “Kind of tough having to guard those guys. I think (I’ve done) a good job. It’s going to be a long series, so I got to keep it up because those guys are going to keep coming.”
― terence trent d'ilfer (m bison), Sunday, 22 May 2022 16:35 (one year ago) link
How Robert Williams grew to become a key piece in Celtics’ Finals runJay King
Robert Williams cannot move like he normally does. That much is obvious throughout Game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals.
Williams hobbles into closeouts twice over the first two minutes. When Kyle Lowry drives to the hoop later in the first quarter, Williams fails to recover in time. One of the NBA’s best at altering shots, he cannot summon the bounce necessary to challenge the layup. After Lowry misses anyway, Williams can do little but watch as Bam Adebayo follows up with a resounding slam dunk. Williams, dealing with the lingering impact of a recent knee surgery, has little to give.
Still, as his Celtics teammates notice, he gives whatever he has. They understand what he has been through after tearing his left meniscus late in the regular season. They have seen him go through two-a-day workouts to return to the court as early as possible after surgery. They have watched him bounce in and out of the lineup, his impact depending on what his body allows him to do on any given day.
Head coach Ime Udoka has also noticed. After the Celtics escape with a 100-96 win, setting up the franchise’s first finals berth since 2010, the coach singles out a few players for their impact on the game. He credits Al Horford for a big block and Jayson Tatum for key rebounds. Then, Udoka glances at the shirtless center in the back of the locker room.
“Rob,” Udoka says, “for playing through pain.”
The Celtics locker room applauds Williams with the most spirit. Maybe they aren’t cheering him just for his contributions on this night, but the journey he has traveled to put himself in this position.
After arriving in Boston four years ago surrounded by concerns about his maturity and work ethic, he has emerged as a cherished teammate and trusted worker. Raised in Oil City, La., a small town with a population of about 2,000, Williams has needed to learn how to navigate so much about the NBA world. He has needed to grow up. He has needed to round out his game, starting with the most basic aspects of it. He has needed to bat away the doubts inside his own head.
Still, as the Celtics have discovered, Williams is built to lift up the ones he loves. That includes his teammates, who love him back.
“Don’t be afraid to be great,” Jaylen Brown tells him.
Williams isn’t. Not anymore.
The burden of talent strapped itself to Williams’ back long before the Celtics drafted him with the 27th pick in 2018.
At a young age, he started hearing from coaches how great he could be. When he swatted away eight shots, people watching wondered why he didn’t block nine or 10. When he soared for a putback dunk, spectators questioned why he didn’t do it on every possession. As he progressed into a big-time college basketball prospect, coaches told him he needed to seek out better competition, but Williams didn’t always want to leave his situation. Used to Oil City, which has one traffic light and zero grocery stores, Williams liked to be around the people and places he knows best.
“Those people up that way, that’s where they’re comfortable,” said Ricky Evans, one of Williams’ youth coaches. “They know everybody. And it’s hard to get them to branch out and leave.”
Because of Williams’ unique production on a basketball court, many coaches tried to convince him to bolt anyway. They pushed Williams to leave for a different high school, but he never took anyone up on the offer.
Evans, who played at Centenary in the early 2000s, understood the value of better exposure. In hopes of putting Williams’ gifts in front of more eyeballs, Evans lined up a spot for him in the Houston Hoops AAU program. On that team, which also featured NBA talents De’Aaron Fox, Carsen Edwards and Jarred Vanderbilt, Evans knew plenty of college coaches would see Williams. One problem: Williams didn’t want to leave behind his own squad from Louisiana.
“Literally, to get him to go to different tournaments and stuff, I’d have to send my son (one of Williams’ good friends) with him just to get him to go,” said Evans. “It was always a bribe where, ‘If you go, I’ll do this.’”
Williams would inevitably flourish when he did step out of his corner of northwest Louisiana. Nothing could contain his ability on the court. He just didn’t like to leave what he called his “comfort zone.” In Oil City, he knew what to expect. His sister, Bri, said it’s the type of place where the whole town shows up to every neighborhood barbecue.
“It’s very family-oriented,” said Bri. “Southern, country.”
“Especially when you in the country and you got nothing to do,” Robert said, “your family is your friends basically.”
Each Saturday, Bri said she and Robert would wake up early in the morning, clean the house and visit one of their grandparents. They would help their grandmother or grandfather clean up, too, then go grocery shopping together and eventually head to the movies or do another family activity. The small town didn’t have much.
“We had one grocery store in Oil City, but it closed down,” said Bri. “We have one gas station. We don’t have a hospital. Just recently, maybe a couple years ago, they just built a health clinic. No grocery stores. You have a Family Dollar. You have a Dollar General. We had a school, but it closed down, it’s a historical landmark now.”
“I know everybody say they from a small place or whatever, but my hometown has to be the smallest city I ever been in,” said Robert. “Can’t even be considered a city, you know what I’m saying? Being away from everything else in the world, that’s all you really know.”
Robert’s mother, Tundra, would stress to her children that they should pursue happiness, not riches. Basketball coaches could see Robert had a chance to land both. One look at him could persuade talent evaluators to rearrange their plans.
Kyle Keller, who helped recruit Williams to Texas A&M, said he first spotted the center at an AAU tournament during Williams’ sophomore year. At the end of a long day, Keller said he was ready to leave the event when Williams walked into the gym. After spotting the young center, “this 6-7 or 6-8, 180-pound dude whose arms hang down to his ankles,” Keller decided he would stay just in case.
“And he blocked about 10 shots in the first half,” Keller said.
At halftime, Keller said he called his travel agent and told her he needed to change his flight. He needed to see the rest of the game so he could find out as much as possible about this bouncy teenager with incredible shot-block timing. The travel agent said all of the later flights out of Vegas were booked, but Keller stayed anyway. By the end of the game, he knew Texas A&M needed to land the prospect. Within about 12 months, Williams had joined Houston Hoops and become a high-major recruit, but Texas A&M stayed in front of all the other schools who tried to lure him.
When Williams first arrived on the college’s campus, the coaching staff considered him a “flight risk,” according to Darby Rich, a former Texas A&M strength coach who now works at Texas Tech. Back in Oil City, people also weren’t convinced Williams would stay at the school. Evans said some took bets on when Williams would return to his hometown.
“It was like, he’s so confined to being at home and being around people, that sometimes he can be scared of change a little bit,” said Bri. “But if you can get him out of a certain situation, or get him out of his comfort zone, just to try something new, he runs with it.”
The Celtics would discover that, but not before those at Texas A&M.
Darby Rich first met Williams during the recruitment process. He was tasked with detailing the strength and conditioning program for Williams and others.
Rich didn’t hold back, telling Williams how difficult the work would be. He said he would love Williams like his own child. Still, on the days Williams didn’t bring his best energy, Rich promised he would be “the guy you like the least in the world.”
He believed the talk intimated Williams. Williams swore it didn’t. He knew Rich had worked with Blake Griffin at Oklahoma before joining the Texas A&M staff.
“All I see is this big ass picture of Blake Griffin on the wall,” Williams said. “So I’m like, ‘Hell yeah.’”
Even so, Williams had plenty to learn. In high school, said Keller, the big man weighed about 180 pounds. Back in Louisiana, Williams didn’t have the benefit of a world-class weight room. He did at Texas A&M, but sometimes needed to be encouraged to work out hard. Amir Abdur-Rahim, an assistant coach at the time, said he would stress the importance of bringing the right energy every day.
“You’re doing too much, man,” Williams would respond.
But Abdur-Rahim knew what Williams could do for his team.
“It’s like, Rob, your energy and personality is so infectious that when you’re on, everybody’s on,” said Abdur-Rahim, now the head coach at Kennesaw State. “They don’t have a choice but to be on because they’re gonna look bad if they’re not.”
Williams needed to kick some other bad habits, including a questionable diet. He loved his sweets. Bri said he used to rummage through the pantry, eating his own snacks first and then cycling over to the rest of his family’s. He was especially fond of Little Debbie cakes, including his favorite kind, Zebra Cakes. Before long, the rest of his family stopped wondering who ate all of their food. Robert had a toy box, shaped like a football, where he would stash the empty wrappers. On the weekends, when his mother would make him clean up, Robert’s room would look spotless at first glance.
“But if you look under the bed, and if you look in that toy box,” Bri said, “you will see everything that you’ve been missing out of the pantry.”
Even at Texas A&M, Robert would drive nutritionist Blair Hitchcock crazy with some of his food choices.
“She’d be so mad, man,” said Abdur-Rahim. “Because Rob, all he was going to eat was chicken tenders and fries. She would say that’s not enough food, he needs to eat, he needs to have some vegetables on his plate. It’s like, ‘Hey, Blair, I know what you’re saying. But that dude right there, he could eat hamburgers every day of the week and he’s going to be better than everybody.’”
Williams made rapid progress on the court and with his body. The Texas A&M coaches quickly learned how well Williams could process information. During one of his first days at the school, he looked lost in drill work against the team’s two best returning big men, Tyler Davis and Tonny Trocha-Morelos. Williams didn’t have their awareness, wisdom or attention to detail. Abdur-Rahim told head coach Billy Kennedy they should remove Williams from the group work until he could compete at the level of his veteran teammates. That lasted maybe three days.
“He came back in the group and he was almost doing the stuff better than they were,” said Abdur-Rahim. “That’s why I was like, ‘That dude is a sponge.’ He might not know something the first time you mention something or the first time you introduce it. But from the second or third time and from there on, he’s going to be one of the best guys that you have (at that skill).”
Alex Lloyd, a Texas A&M video coordinator who is now the head coach at Bowdoin College, noticed early that Williams would ask questions about defensive rotations most other players wouldn’t think about. Wouldn’t it make sense if we pre-rotate on the backside, Williams asked once, so I can stay back and protect the rim?
The other coaches marveled at his combination of intelligence and unique athleticism. Williams’ teammates enjoyed his style, which was all about the team. He didn’t need the ball to make an impact. He focused instead on rebounding, defending and catching lobs. Though the Texas A&M staff initially wondered if Williams would leave during his first month at the school, he found a new family there instead. Whenever Robert was forced out of his comfort zone, Bri could trust her brother to make new friends. She compared him to his mother, a paraprofessional for young students. Near graduation time every year, Tundra puts together a bag of gifts for the children.
“If you look at that you’ll think that it’s Christmas,” said Bri. “From outfits, to pajamas, to candy, toys. She loves people, and loves seeing people happy. And he’s the same way.”
By the end of that first summer, Abdur-Rahim believed Williams, who arrived as ESPN’s 51st-ranked recruit in his class, would eventually leave early for the NBA Draft. Over time, Abdur-Rahim started to think Williams could even contend to be the first pick. One day, he called his brother, Shareef, who scored more than 15,000 points over a 12-year NBA career.
“This dude is Stromile Swift with feel,” said Abdur-Rahim, referring to the extremely athletic second pick in the 2000 draft.
Two hundred and thirty five miles away from Oil City, Williams thrived on campus. He emerged as a beloved teammate, the same way he later would in Boston. Keller called him a “pure spirit.”
Abdur-Rahim called Williams everybody’s favorite teammate. Brad Stevens would later say the same thing about Williams with the Celtics. After coming off the Aggies’ bench early in the season, Williams won the SEC Defensive Player of the Year award. He was viewed as a likely lottery pick, but didn’t consider himself ready for the NBA. He told Bri he did not consider himself mentally prepared for the jump.
“I was just nervous,” Robert said. “I think it was just everything in general. Am I going to fail? Am I not going to be as good as I think I am? Am I going to be a bust? Do I need another year of maturity?”
Brown would later urge Williams to ignore similar doubts in Boston. Like he tells himself, Brown told Williams not to be afraid of greatness.
“Me and Rob are similar in a lot of regards where sometimes we can overthink situations or allow what the outside world is saying to kind of seep into our minds,” Brown said. “Especially when I was younger in my career. Just come out and play basketball, man. Don’t let your anxiety take over. Don’t let those thoughts that you have inside of your head that’s doubting or having fear or saying that you’re not going to be able to do it, you’re going to fail. Don’t listen to that voice. Listen to the voice that’s going to tell you that you’re great. Listen to the voice that’s telling you you’re going to get the job done. And sometimes you need somebody to remind you of that.”
Those around Williams at the time told him how much he could accomplish and how much he already had. Even so, he didn’t trust it yet.
“Coming from a place like Oil City, such a small town, there were times I thought the success – scared him is not the right word – but it created expectations, right?” said Abdur-Rahim. “And the one thing about Robert, which makes him so great, is that once somebody has an expectation of him, he doesn’t want to let anybody down. He’s a pleaser. So he felt like if he let you down, that was the worst thing ever to him.”
Shortly after Williams decided to return to school in 2017, he showed up for an April morning workout with glitter in his hair. He had gone to a sorority party the night before.
“It was lime green paint,” said Rich. “I remember it clearly in his left ear. And I’m thinking, this kid’s coming back to A&M for another year because of that paint party.”
More seriously, Rich believed Williams returned to school because he “didn’t want to be a 19-year-old in New York City all alone.”
“He just literally was not ready to live that lifestyle,” Rich said.
The decision did not pay immediate dividends. Williams was suspended for the first two games of his sophomore season for a violation of team policy. He still went on to win the SEC Defensive Player of the Year award for the second straight season, but saw his NBA stock slide between the end of the season and the draft.
People who saw him work out then reported he was clearly out of shape, which Williams acknowledged during a recent conversation. He said he only did 1-on-0 workouts, which highlighted his lack of conditioning while failing to show off his passing and defensive instincts. Williams’ initial agents, Mike Silverman and Brandon Grier, held him out of the NBA combine, which Rich saw as a huge mistake.
“They made some poor decisions,” Rich said. “They didn’t let Robert Williams go to the combine. Let’s talk about that. Maybe the best athlete in the draft doesn’t go to the combine. Even if you don’t want to do all the drills, you let Robert Williams go be measured, you let Robert Williams run and jump, and more than anything, he’s such an engaging kid that if you put him in front of GMs and coaches and the people that are conducting interviews, they would sit there — even if there are red flags — and think, golly, he’s a good kid, we need him in our organization. And they didn’t give him a chance to do that.”
Grier said he didn’t think they could put Williams in front of any teams at that time.
“I would never put my client in front of NBA teams or decision-makers in the shape he was in and the level of preparedness he had,” Grier said. “So, until he was ready, we were going to keep him locked up from anybody seeing him.”
The agency set up Williams to prepare for the draft at a training facility in Dallas, but he left in a matter of days to split time between Texas A&M and back home in Louisiana. Rich said Williams didn’t do the type of conditioning and basketball training necessary to be ready for that critical time. He believed the agents should have done more to hold Williams to the right type of daily regimen.
“I don’t care if I’m rolling them under the bus because they screwed the kid,” Rich said. “They were so afraid that he would sign with somebody else that they kind of let him make his own schedule. And Rob making his own schedule at 19 or 20 years old is not what he needed.”
Grier said the agency tried its best to help Williams, sending trainers to Louisiana, but had problems getting him to show up for workouts. Williams, who eventually parted ways with Silverman and Grier, later said he jumped into the business relationship too quickly. Whoever was to blame for the pre-draft process gone wrong, Williams’ stock fell with certain teams.
The Clippers showed serious interest, but passed on him with two picks late in the lottery, setting him up for a long slide. Contributing to the fall, many teams outside of Williams’ expected range, including the Celtics, did not have access to his medical information.
After hearing Williams could slip down the draft board, the Celtics organized to hunt down why. According to Danny Ainge, the team spent about two hours in a “frantic” search for additional details on his health. The Celtics called anyone who could potentially help them out, including teams that had passed on Williams. Word had spread throughout the NBA that he was dealing with some sort of vascular issue. The Celtics hoped to uncover whether he was a draftable prospect. Because of his talent, they badly wanted him to be.
As the first round crept on, the Celtics contacted Rich. He said he impressed upon Ainge that Williams’ popliteal artery entrapment syndrome would not threaten his career or his life. Even if the condition did worsen, Rich said, it could be taken care of with a procedure that would allow Williams to keep playing.
In College Station, those close to Williams were rooting for him to land on a team with solid veteran influences. Rich said he told people he wanted Williams to play with somebody like Al Horford, who could show him the right way to approach the job. Abdur-Rahim said he did not want Williams to land on an inexperienced team with little leadership because “then you may look up in five years and he’s not in the league because he didn’t have anybody to show him, hey, this is what it takes.”
When the Celtics did pick Williams, Rich said he saw the bright side of the center’s draft-night fall.
“Golly,” Rich thought. “He lost a lot of money today, but he may make it up on the back side because he may be in the league eight more years because he’s with an organization that’s going to be good for him.”
Over the next four years, Williams would grow to believe he needed the Celtics just like they needed him.
Shortly after one of his first workouts with Jerome Allen, then a Celtics assistant coach, Williams looked down to check a text message on his phone.
“You bullshitting,” read the note.
Allen was following through on a promise he made to Williams. After Brad Stevens paired the two together, Allen had vowed to let Williams know whenever he brought an unacceptable effort level to the gym. That morning, Williams had let his coach down.
The two came to an agreement.
“I’m going to tell when you bullshit,” Allen said. “You just got to listen to me.”
Williams bought in. Some days, the workouts with Allen would seem remedial. Allen would guard Williams 1-on-1 full-court, pressuring him to work on his ballhandling. The two would practice different types of pivots. Allen would show Williams where to point his toe during certain moves. Though Williams had plenty to work on, he also had obvious gifts, including a rare ability to see the court. Allen would help Williams read the help defense to set up the passes he loved to throw.
As the two grew closer, Allen started to consider Williams misunderstood. He had a reputation for immaturity because he missed a conference call the day after the Celtics drafted him then failed to show up in Boston in time for his first summer league practice. Even before those moments, several NBA teams had doubts about Williams’ makeup thanks partially to the rough pre-draft circuit.
From the start, Allen saw Williams as a selfless person, all about the team.
“Rob doesn’t like a lot of attention,” Allen said. “And I’m not saying that he constantly carried this anxiety that came along with it, but he just wanted to be like a kid. He just wanted to be Rob. And everybody’s like, ‘Overnight, you got to become a professional.’ And that just wasn’t fair to him.”
Some people need more time to develop. Williams worked at it. With the Celtics, he could look around and see good examples everywhere. By the time he would show up to the gym, Al Horford and Aron Baynes, both fathers of young children, would be finishing their workouts. Williams could see what NBA success required.
He didn’t always believe he could even reach the league in the first place. Evans used to tell Williams regularly that he had a chance to play in the NBA one day, but he never bought it.
While Williams fought for minutes early in his NBA career, Allen needed to help build the young man’s confidence.
“He helped me believe that I can get all I want in this game,” Williams said. “He just reassured me daily, man. He helped me work on it.”
On certain days, Allen and Williams would stop talking to each other after getting into a heated argument. Always, they would move past their disagreement. In quieter moments, they would talk about family, kids and responsibilities. Williams started to realize Allen cared about him on a far deeper level than basketball. When Williams got sick, Allen would stop by the house to check on him. When Williams needed help, he found himself turning to Allen.
On the court, Williams began to find ways to impact the Celtics. Brown saw him evolve.
“Rob has made huge jumps,” Brown said. “Not just in his game, but just the mental game. Just being able to be consistent, being able to be solid, being able to be available. And a lot of that comes from confidence. A lot of that comes from self belief, inner belief.”
Off the court, Williams developed close bonds with his teammates. Jayson Tatum, who has called Williams his favorite teammate to play with, had conversations with Stevens about the big man’s importance to the team. Stevens needed no convincing. He believed last season that Williams’ growth would determine the Celtics’ ceiling. Stevens said that this season, which saw Williams make the second team all-defense during his first year as a full-time starter, has only reaffirmed that belief.
Williams regularly delivers highlights, but cares more about lifting up the players around him.
“He is a genuinely thankful person,” Stevens said. “He’s one of the great teammates around for sure. First of all, when you play with him, everything screams, ‘That’s a guy I’d love to play with.’ Does a lot of little things, defends, passes, rolls, sometimes doesn’t get the ball but opens it up for the weak side. And then when you are around him every day, he just raises the energy level. He does a good job of that. He’s gone from that kind of shy young guy, looking around, to one of the adults in the room who is ready to infuse the room with energy.”
This January, Williams named his new son Hendrix Rome Williams, with the middle name to honor Allen. Earlier this season, after Allen left for the Pistons, Williams sent him a message about how God puts people in your life at certain times, and how it was no accident they ended up working together.
“I feel like people are put in your life for a reason,” Williams said. “Even if it’s for a month. Even if it’s for a year.”
The Celtics all believe Williams has another level to reach. His sister believes he could win the Defensive Player of the Year award next season. She said he defends the basket in the same way he supports those he loves.
“If he’s protecting what’s his, he’s fine with it,” Bri said.
The Celtics are his now. And he’s theirs.
― i cannot help if you made yourself not funny (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 8 June 2022 15:25 (one year ago) link
DURING THE LATE winter of 2013, an 18-year-old curio named Giannis Antetokounmpo was turning heads in Greece's second-tier professional league. Though he was averaging fewer than 10 points per game, Antetokounmpo's physical profile, body control and vision screamed "modern-day NBA."
Only a handful of front-office executives from the NBA had witnessed Antetokounmpo in person, and only the Atlanta Hawks had brought him into their facility. Most of the league had relied on video, as well as intelligence from scouts and various contacts in the world of European basketball, for their information. What multiple front offices heard gave them great pause about the prospect.
An executive from one team that passed on Antetokounmpo in the June draft did so because the word was that the teenager was soft. For all the raw talent and upside, Antetokounmpo, who spoke no English and had limited exposure to the world outside of Greek basketball, couldn't survive in the NBA. The intel also warned that Antetokounmpo's family could be an impediment: The immigration status of his parents and brothers was thorny, and the task of getting them into the United States could present complications for a team that drafts him. Being alone in a strange city without his family, the thinking went, Antetokounmpo would struggle personally.
The Milwaukee Bucks selected Antetokounmpo in the 2013 draft with the 15th pick, one slot ahead of the Hawks, who were devastated. After a steady development period during his first few years in the league, Antetokounmpo has blossomed into a five-time All-Star, two-time MVP and NBA champion before his 27th birthday.
So far as Antetokounmpo's potentially problematic family, his filial piety and brotherly love have been defining characteristics of his success. Far from being a distraction, Antetokounmpo's devotion to his kin has been a main driver of his renowned work ethic. To the extent it informed the ultimate decision of any of the 14 teams that drafted ahead of the Bucks, the intel was a germ.
Intelligence is merely one ingredient that goes into the talent evaluation of NBA draft prospects. Yet despite extraordinary advancements in so many areas and exponential front-office growth to match, the NBA collectively is no better at projecting an elite draft prospect than it was 40 years ago.
In a landscape where the NBA's brightest minds have pushed the boundaries of the frontier, the NBA draft remains the most stubborn line of resistance. But there's one team that believes it might know something the rest of the league doesn't.The Warriors' dynasty was formed by the considerable power of the NBA draft. The team drafted Stephen Curry No. 7 in 2009, Klay Thompson No. 11 in 2011 and, famously, Draymond Green No. 35 in 2012. Nathaniel S. Butler/NBAE via Getty Images
THIS SPRING'S FINALS offer an object lesson in the power of the annual draft. The Boston Celtics' starting five featured four first-round picks between 2014 and 2018. The Golden State Warriors transformed from a backwater to glam franchise by drafting Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green. Younger draftees Jordan Poole and Kevon Looney also proved indispensable in the Warriors' title run.
In contrast, the failure of the Sacramento Kings and Orlando Magic to find franchise players despite drafting repeatedly near the top of the lottery have consigned them to chronic mediocrity.
One team that's had mixed results in recent years -- like most NBA teams -- is the Phoenix Suns. Unlike most NBA teams, the Suns have determined that the best way to value the NBA draft might be to not value it at all.
In a league where teams spend millions of dollars and employ an ever-growing number of scouts in a year-round pursuit to nail the June draft, the Suns, under the current leadership of general manager James Jones, are taking the inverse approach.
Phoenix's tack is as unconventional as it is anti-establishment: Not only are the Suns bucking a pronounced league trend by divesting from the Draft Industrial Complex, they're also espousing a view in the information age that less of it is better.
Michael Lopez, now the director of football data and analytics for the National Football League, examined the historic performance of the NBA at drafting in a 2017 study. Then an assistant professor at Skidmore College who had earned his Ph.D. in biostatistics from Brown University, he found that the NBA didn't improve at all between 1980 and 2017.
The flatline isn't monocausal -- there are a host of factors that range from youth to various intangibles. The most common response offered speaks to the youth of most draftees.
Both successful and unsuccessful teams rely on scouting, workouts, interviews, physical measurements, medical reports and analytics. Over the past few decades, these processes have advanced considerably. Video platforms enable a scout to watch the most granular elements of a prospect's game with the touch of a button. More sophisticated technology allows team physicians and performance specialists to spot red flags that might compromise a player's health. Psychologists assess a teenager's competitive makeup. Sophisticated statistical modeling projects how the production of a collegian or international player might translate to the NBA.
Multiple other front-office executives charged with the unenviable task of projection say confirmation bias is the most derailing factor. A scout may fall in love with a prospect in November after watching him at a college tournament and author a report to that effect. Then, as the basketball operations person now vested in that prospect's continued maturation, he continues to champion the player, even as countervailing evidence emerges that exposes the player's vulnerabilities. Like a Texas Hold 'em player who is pot-committed, the scout continues to ride hope, even with the probabilities turned.
Beyond the on-court factors, execs and scouts say it's harder than ever to project the human dynamics. Will a teenager asked to move thousands of miles from home have the life skills to manage the demands of an inordinately demanding job? How will millions of dollars affect that process? Do they have the mental and emotional capacity to buy-in to a new brand of basketball after years of dominating at every level?
Then there's the smallest of sample-size theater. James Wiseman played all of 69 minutes at Memphis, while Darius Garland played five games at Vanderbilt. Famously, Kyrie Irving played only 11 games at Duke. Top 2022 prospect Shaedon Sharpe didn't play a single game this season for Kentucky.
One executive said he's been burned by an overly cautious medical staff who raised red flags that dissuaded him from selecting a first-round prospect. Many feel that workouts, more controlled by agents than ever, are overvalued, as is performance in the NCAA tournament (see Williams, Derrick and Flynn, Jonny). Combine results can be tantalizing, though scouts and execs feel as if the league has made a proper correction on a traditional fetish -- "athleticism." Yet at the same time, some say the swing toward "basketball IQ" has moved so dramatically in the past few years, that teams might look up to find that they don't have the necessary shot creation to contend.
In 1992, 53 of the 54 selections chosen in the NBA draft were college players. In 2020, 12 of the 60 picks didn't play Division I basketball. In 2021, that number was 10. Today, teams must measure college freshmen against 19-year-olds who opted for the G-League or pro ball in Australia, to say nothing of international prospects from Africa, South America and the lower professional leagues of Europe.
All these factors fit neatly under a single rubric: No matter how many tools and how much expertise, it's damn near impossible to predict the future.
N'FALY DANTE HAS the paint on lockdown. The 7-foot center for the University of Oregon has claimed as a personal imperative this afternoon to deny any eager Oregon State opponent proximity to the basket. In this Pac-12 tournament game, he'll block five shots in 28 minutes and affect a half dozen more, the Beavers all but giving up trying to penetrate, lest they encounter Dante in his circle of hell in the key.
Out of high school, Dante was a five-star recruit, one of the best young centers in the world who was recruited by a number of big-name programs, including Kentucky. Had he not suffered knee and ACL injuries in 2020, Dante might be a projected first-round prospect.
To the naked eye -- and even an informed basketball fan -- Dante appears dominant. But Danny Gomez, 34, and Drew Mastin, then 24, who are here scouting the Pac-12 and several other conference tournaments in Las Vegas this week for the Phoenix Suns, aren't impressed. It's early on a Wednesday afternoon at T-Mobile Arena, and scouts outnumber the fans in this section behind the Oregon State basket for this not-so-anticipated matchup between the No. 5 and No. 12 seeds.
"Oregon State doesn't really have any pull-up jump shooters," Gomez says. "It's easy for Dante to be deep defensively. Very little we'll see today will tell us how well he'd defend the NBA pick-and-roll game."
Much of Gomez and Mastin's week will be spent observing imperfect college players such as Dante in an effort to find a Nikola Jokic, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, Fred VanVleet or Jalen Brunson. Though the Suns don't currently own a pick in Thursday's draft, it's fairly easy for a team to buy into the second round if they stumble upon a prospect who intrigues them. That's why Gomez and Mastin are here -- to determine whether Dante has recovered enough of the uncommon agility he displayed prior to the injury to qualify as one of those unvarnished gems.
After Gomez and Mastin finish their work at the Pac-12 tournament, they ride 2 miles east on Tropicana Avenue to UNLV's Thomas & Mack Center for the Mountain West Conference tournament. One of the MWC players they're watching most closely is David Roddy, a projected second-rounder. A thick, 6-foot-5 fireplug with solid ball skills and a 64.5 true shooting percentage, the conference player of the year is catnip for any evaluator who is determined to find the next undervalued and positionless unicorn.
Yet as they watch Colorado State face Utah State the next afternoon, the confounding task of talent evaluation is a persistent theme. Just as measuring Dante against one of college basketball's worst teams provides little reliable insight, gleaning much from Roddy on Thursday proves similarly impossible. He's less impactful than his reputed basketball IQ implies he should be despite an efficient 6-for-9 performance from the field. He seems passive against matchups that appear favorable, and though he's clearly a strong individual defender, he seems a half-second slow to react in help situations.
The limitations of watching the Dantes and Roddys of the world play some live basketball, then projecting a 15-year career, is just one reason the scouting operation Gomez and Mastin are part of in Phoenix operates with more skepticism about the draft than those of most NBA teams. While it's still marginally useful to perceive a player's body language in a live game and immerse oneself in the temperature and tone of a game, Gomez and Mastin will leave the arena with a few notes, but no inclination to write up an elaborate report as scouts from many NBA teams would.
The Suns don't have a formal reporting system for Gomez or Mastin to feed after each game they see, or conversation they have with a college coach. Jones prefers that his scouts stay as close to the team in Phoenix as possible. Consequently, Gomez -- the Suns' lead international scout -- will spend far more time over the course of the basketball season in Phoenix than his counterparts in Europe will at their mother ships, if they return at all. Whereas most NBA teams do exhaustive work to draw up their "draft board" ranking dozens of prospects, the Suns have sworn off the practice the past three years.
"Our draft board would be a mockery to other teams," says Zach Amundson, the Suns' senior analyst of personnel and team evaluation. "By the time we were done, we had only five to seven guys on our draft board."
The Suns look with a jaundiced eye on one-and-done prospects. Jones believes that there's precious little to glean from watching an 18-year-old player in his sixth career game during a Thanksgiving tournament in person. He feels that, most days during the regular season, a Suns scout is probably better off observing Monty Williams run practice than watching a college prospect with "raw talent" play against NCAA competition. Jones regards the draft as much as a promotional pageant for the league as a pool of ready-made NBA players who can affect winning right away.
"The draft is one of many channels where we can acquire talent," Jones says. "It's the one we glorify. It's the one that comes with the excitement. And it comes with an advantage -- the ability to get productive players on low salaries, and under contractual control for multiple years. But it's just one vehicle for acquisition. You can only devote so many resources to it, and there's a different value proposition here."
That different value proposition -- less time, expense, brainpower and grunt work -- might pay dividends by simplifying the cumbersome task of appraising hundreds of amateur and international basketball players. But it could also prove to be a quixotic, reductive scheme that leaves the Suns woefully behind the organizations who scour the ends of the earth to mine for draft talent.Suns GM James Jones, who won executive of the year in 2021, believes that a scout is better off observing coach Monty Williams run practice than watching a college prospect with "raw talent" play against NCAA competition. Barry Gossage/NBAE via Getty Images
AMUNDSON ESTIMATES HE cranked out 200 to 300 reports on NBA prospects after arriving for his first full-time season in Phoenix in 2019. For a 24-year-old eager to make an impression, it made sense to mimic the veterans in the business who pounded away on their laptops at college arenas. In the spring of 2020, Jones approached Amundson and informed him he wouldn't be reading his young scout's exhaustive reports.
Jones told Amundson that he would welcome macro-level conversations about the kinds of prospects the Suns should be monitoring, or even a holistic discussion about a specific college player's career. When Amundson determined a draft-eligible player cleared a threshold to warrant the most serious consideration of the organization, he would then assemble a thorough evaluation making his case.
The presentation, Jones told him, would include an extensive video edit, an evaluation that includes data analysis and an intelligence report. Jones would sit at the head of the conference table during the presentation and make the case against the player, thereby pressing Amundson -- or whichever member of the front office is advocating for the player -- to defend his position. Others in the room would ask questions too.
Jones played four seasons at the University of Miami before the Indiana Pacers selected him with the No. 49 pick of the 2003 draft. During his 14 seasons with the Pacers, Phoenix, Miami and Cleveland, Jones won three NBA championships, all as a teammate of LeBron James, who referred to him as "my favorite player of all time." Jones is one of 31 players in league history to make more than 700 3-pointers at a rate of better than 40%, a skill he got to showcase as a member of the Suns' revolutionary "Seven Seconds or Less" teams.
In many ways, Jones the 22-year-old player is the personification of the prospect Jones the 41-year-old GM values most -- an older player with a refined skill and a mature temperament. In Phoenix, the word "potential" is strictly verboten.
"We're not allowed to talk about 'potential,'" says Ryan Resch, the Suns' vice president of basketball strategy and evaluation. "We say 'capacity' instead of 'potential,' because capacity forces you to recognize what the player can actually do today and what he is capable of doing tomorrow."
Jones, who never played on an NBA team with a losing record, harbors an ideological opposition to the notion of a rebuild, which he finds corrosive to an organization and a disservice to fans.
"You're either trying to win, or you're not trying to win," Jones says. "If you're not trying to win, you can say what you want, but you're trying to lose. You can say, 'Well, let's go slow and win later,' but there are too many things between now and later. I'm trying to win now and win later. Players know every day in the league brings them one day closer to the end of their careers, and I can't waste their days."
"The draft is one of many channels where we can acquire talent. It's the one we glorify. It's the one that comes with the excitement. And it comes with an advantage -- the ability to get productive players on low salaries, and under contractual control for multiple years. But it's just one vehicle for acquisition." Suns GM James Jones
Jones and his staff insist they're interested in "players, not prospects." The Suns say they apply the same criteria used to determine the value of a prospective free agent to the draft. If the player can contribute immediately, and if his skill set can fill an explicit role in Williams' system for the upcoming season, he's worth considering. If neither of those measures can be met, he's not for Phoenix.
Over the past decade, NBA front offices have undergone a movement of professionalization. The Oklahoma City Thunder epitomize this pivot away from old-world scouting and toward technocracy. The Thunder are renowned for their massive database that includes terabytes of information on virtually every basketball prospect in the past two decades that has a remote chance of sniffing an NBA career. In recent seasons, the Thunder have stripped down their team to the studs and are patiently constructing the roster piece by piece with little attention on their win-loss record, all the while stockpiling draft assets. In the parlance of the NBA, this is a tank job, and even those who find the practice distasteful concede it's a sensible strategy for a team in one of the league's smallest, least glamorous markets.
"I respect what OKC does," Jones says when asked if he has an appreciation for the Oklahoma City Thunder's more deliberate strategy. "That's what they've chosen to be, I guess. Everything's a choice. I don't judge. I respect it. It's just not for me."If the player can contribute immediately, and his skill set fills an explicit role in Williams' system, he's worth considering for the Suns. Cameron Johnson, taken No. 11 in 2019 to much criticism, could do both. Kate Frese/NBAE via Getty Images
"PICKS ARE JUST players," Jones says.
Officially, the Suns traded away their 2021 first-round pick (No. 29) last July when they packaged it with Jevon Carter for Landry Shamet. In their judgment, they essentially acquired a 24-year-old sharpshooter in Shamet and his Bird rights. Internally, they regard 27-year-old Danish guard Gabriel "Iffe" Lundberg, whom they signed in March, as this year's draft pick, tantamount to what they could have obtained with the 30th selection, which went to Oklahoma City in the Chris Paul trade.
Jones' time in Miami playing alongside James and in an organization with Pat Riley's handprint on it has informed much of his thinking about building a sustainable roster long on veterans and short on projects. Riley told the media in 2018 in his postseason news conference, "To be really honest with you, I'm not a draft pick guy," and Jones has, in large part, adopted Riley's limited appetite for both the draft and rookies.
Jones' first draft as the Suns' lead basketball executive was 2019, when the Suns held the No. 6 pick and were coming off their worst season since their inaugural expansion year in 1968-69. The Suns' sparse draft board included Cameron Johnson, a 6-foot-9 forward out of North Carolina with range. A five-year college player, Johnson was projected by most prognosticators to go late in the first round.
"'Don't take an older guy, because there's less upside or potential,'" Jones says. "That's the narrative. 'He doesn't have as much potential to grow as everyone else. There's not enough raw physical talent and skill. Is he that much better than the freshman who is playing on the team who flashes star potential?'"NBA on ESPN+
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When the Suns examined players of comparable size and positionality in the field, they determined Johnson had a greater capacity to contribute right away than Sekou Doumbouya or Cam Reddish did. They preferred his temperament as a more mature rookie on a team that needed to grow up quickly. Recognizing they likely valued Johnson appreciably more than any other team, they traded the No. 6 pick to Minnesota in exchange for No. 11 and forward Dario Saric.
The pick was roundly panned, with some detractors noting that even at No. 11, the Suns still wildly overcommitted to a 23-year-old who was the oldest lottery pick in a decade.
Johnson, who averaged 12.5 points per game on a true shooting percentage of 62.5 in 26.2 minutes per game this past season, embodies the Suns' heterodox posture on the draft. The Suns examined the player as a de facto free agent rather than a potential NBA player. They evaluated his skill set solely in the context of what it could provide Williams' preferred style on both sides of the ball. They thought about how Johnson's presence on the floor would influence the three players of greatest priority in their youth movement -- Devin Booker, DeAndre Ayton and Mikal Bridges.
With a career 3-point shooting percentage of 41.4 in 34 playoff games with Phoenix, Johnson has solidified himself as part of the Suns' prime core moving forward. For Phoenix, it further emboldened them to forgo the tedious draft boards, and zero in on the handful of players who fit their narrow criteria.
Says Resch: "We were prepared to take him sixth if we had to."
THE SUNS' BASKETBALL operations team gathers for a strategy meeting in the second week of April just before the playoffs, for which they secured the No. 1 seed weeks ago. The staff is noticeably small. Everyone fits more than comfortably in the main conference room that overlooks the practice courts of the Suns' new training facility.
When he's assessing the trade-offs of devoting less attention or a smaller budget toward draft scouting and preparation, Jones makes repeated mention of resource theory. The implication is that the Suns have a finite amount of resources and, in his words, "can't do everything."
"The constraints are not financial," he says. "We will continue to intentionally build a group that can excel at identifying the modern player as the NBA continues to evolve."
The Suns have a total 14 people employed in basketball operations, including Jones. For comparison, the LA Clippers have 14 people alone in their scouting department. Jones says he maintains a smaller staff by design.
"How big can your staff be before it becomes too much for the system to bear?" he says. "When you have 25 or 30 front-office people and scouts, now you have to tell people they can't be in our strategy meeting. I don't want certain people sitting and certain people standing. I don't want anyone here to feel like they're on the fringe, or that their voice isn't heard."
The strategy meeting in Phoenix lasts less than two hours, with everyone having a chance to speak and present.
"The people who have to connect those dots must be proximal to the actual team to know what truly is an area of need for us," Jones says. "They need to be constantly engaged with our coaching staff. A regional scout scouting games on the East Coast who is never watching our team practice has no context. This is an intimate business, and I find it really hard for people to truly understand what matters and what's of significance if they're not close to it."
The year following the selection of Johnson, the Suns drafted big man Jalen Smith with the No. 10 pick. Smith played infrequently and ineffectively, and was the first top-10 pick to have his third-year option declined. He was traded last February to Indiana.
"Jalen wasn't better than [Suns backup center] JaVale [McGee] on a competitive team trying to win a championship," Jones says. "You could say, 'If we give him opportunities he can be productive,' but what's the trade-off?"
Jones readily admits that if another unformed Antetokounmpo is toiling in obscurity in southeastern Europe, the Suns wouldn't give him much of a look. He concedes that rarely does a franchise superstar enter the draft as a plug-and-play talent -- think Dwyane Wade or Stephen Curry -- ready to contribute immediately. He appreciates that it's easier for a team in the Win-Now stage of its life cycle to roll its eyes at the faith other franchises place in the draft. But in Jones' worldview, a franchise should exist in a perpetual state of Win-Now with a combination of ready-made players, be they drafted or undrafted, and the right veterans who can support them. In short, he sees a Miami in the desert.
He even confesses that, had he been at the helm in 2015, he probably would have passed on Booker.
"It all depends on what your goal is," Jones says. "Devin is great, but there are 50 skeletons tied to that swing for the star. It wasn't until winning was imported -- Chris, Jae Crowder, drafting a three-year guy who could help right away like Mikal -- that it translated to success. And if you don't import winning around him, there are even more skeletons. So if you want to find the guy with the highest potential to be the future star, then it makes sense to draft him -- if you're willing to navigate the land mines."
― call all destroyer, Monday, 27 June 2022 02:36 (one year ago) link
anyone got access to pelton's trade grades on the murray deal?
Grades for the Dejounte Murray trade: https://t.co/uVJGuWXspX (ESPN+)— Kevin Pelton (@kpelton) June 30, 2022
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 30 June 2022 17:17 (one year ago) link
How will Dejounte Murray fit alongside Trae Young with the Atlanta Hawks?
The Hawks made the biggest addition of the NBA offseason to date on Wednesday, sending three first-round picks -- two of them unprotected, per ESPN's Zach Lowe -- and a pick swap to the San Antonio Spurs in exchange for Murray, chosen as an NBA All-Star for the first time last season at age 25.
Having played point guard in San Antonio, Murray will be an interesting fit next to Young in the Atlanta backcourt. An All-Defensive second-team pick in 2017-18, Murray will undoubtedly be an upgrade at that end of the court for a Hawks team that ranked 26th in defensive rating last season -- worst of anyone to make the playoffs.
On the other side, the Spurs are dealing Murray at the peak of his value with two years remaining on his inexpensive contract. San Antonio's roster is now built around six first-round picks from the past three drafts, including three this year, with more on the way.
Let's break down what this trade means for both teams.The deal
Hawks get:Dejounte Murray
Spurs get:Danilo Gallinari2023 first-round pick (via Charlotte Hornets)2025 first-round pick2027 first-round pickFuture pick swap with Atlanta
Atlanta Hawks: C
Adding Murray will surely revive the age-old question of how the Hawks can utilize Young's shooting without constantly having the ball in his hands. Young's 8.7 minutes per game time of possession ranked third highest in the NBA, per Second Spectrum tracking on NBA Advanced Stats; and the 3,730 pick-and-rolls he ran, according to Second Spectrum, were 11% more than the next-highest player (Luka Doncic).
Building a heliocentric offense around Young has produced great regular-season results for Atlanta, which ranked second behind the Utah Jazz in offensive rating in 2021-22. Come playoff time, however, Young struggled as the primary option against the aggressive defense of the Miami Heat, averaging just 15.4 points per game on 32% shooting with more turnovers (31) than assists (30).
Given Young powered the Hawks' surprising run to the Eastern Conference finals in 2020-21, the question isn't whether he can succeed in the playoffs. It's whether putting so much offensive responsibility in his hands maximizes his value to Atlanta against the best defenses. Enter Murray, another high-volume ball handler who ranked sixth overall in pick-and-rolls (2,608) and seventh in time of possession (7.4 MPG).
When pairings like this have succeeded, it's typically because both players are also off-ball threats. Think Chris Paul with either James Harden in Houston (at least the first season) or Devin Booker in Phoenix. That doesn't describe Murray, a 33% career 3-point shooter who is better in catch-and-shoot situations (36% last season, per Second Spectrum) but still below average.
It also hasn't described Young, who has the shooting chops to succeed in that role (he hit a sizzling 45% of his catch-and-shoot 3s in 2021-22, 11th among players with at least 50 such attempts) but rarely plays it. He took just 86 catch-and-shoot 3s all season. The 83% of Young's field goals that were unassisted last season was fourth highest among players who made at least 250, per NBA Advanced Stats. Murray again wasn't far behind at 73% (11th in that group).
The obvious comparison when we talk about Young being more of an off-ball threat is Stephen Curry, the deep-shooting, undersized guard who has always been a reference point for Young. As Golden State Warriors coach Steve Kerr recently pointed out on the Lowe Post, that's possible partly because Curry played shooting guard his first two years at Davidson, requiring him to work on the movement necessary to get open without the ball. Unlike Curry, Young has always had the ball in his hands as he developed.
Ultimately, the comparison is unfair because Curry's combination of ballhandling and ability to wreck a defense with off-ball movement is unparalleled throughout NBA history. The Hawks don't need Young to be Curry. They just need Young to be active enough to keep defenses engaged and allow Murray room to operate with the ball in his hands.
There are two clear wins from this deal for Atlanta.
The first is defensively. Although Murray hasn't quite reached his All-Defensive peak since returning from an ACL tear in the 2018 preseason, he generates steals at a high rate and is an excellent defensive rebounder for a guard. Murray is capable of taking on the tougher defensive assignment in the backcourt, allowing Young to hide on less threatening opponents.
Additionally, the Hawks should have more hope of surviving the minutes Young spends on the bench, allowing him to get more rest. After finding a successful formula for the second unit built around Bogdan Bogdanovic in the second half of the 2020-21 season, Atlanta again struggled to score without Young last season. The team's offensive rating dropped by 10 points per 100 possessions with Young on the bench.
To some extent, I think those issues are inevitable with an offense built so much around a single player, but the Hawks will have an All-Star point guard on the court at all times now and (hopefully) won't be as reliant on Young.
Despite Murray having one of the league's better contracts -- paying him like a midtier starting point guard ($16.6 million this season and $17.7 million in 2023-24) -- adding him will still be costly because Atlanta used Danilo Gallinari's partially guaranteed salary to match it rather than that of one of the team's core players, such as forward John Collins.
By waiving Gallinari today, the Hawks could have ducked the luxury tax this season. Instead, they'll start free agency over the projected tax line before filling out their roster. Atlanta will be hard-pressed to get out by the deadline because there's so little fat to trim. All eight players making more than $3.5 million this season will be part of the Hawks' rotation.
Although adding Murray is an upgrade for Atlanta, I'm not sure it puts the Hawks in the projected top half of the East playoff standings. I'd still have them behind the Boston Celtics, Heat, Milwaukee Bucks and Philadelphia 76ers, pending additional moves this offseason. And that's where you start to wonder about the price.
As Lowe argued, giving up three first-round picks for a player on a value contract makes sense if that player gets a team to a crucial new level. The Bucks surely don't regret shelling out even more swaps and picks for Jrue Holiday after Holiday immediately helped them win a championship. But there's more room here for the Hawks to second-guess this deal.
Giving up two unprotected picks has the benefit of providing Atlanta a little flexibility to trade additional first-rounders. The Hawks can, at the moment, trade their own picks in 2023 and 2029. The downside is there's no parachute if the Hawks' future goes worse than planned. (Say, by Murray leaving as an unrestricted free agent in 2024 because his low salary makes an extension unrealistic.) Even the pick swap in 2026 in between the two first-rounders is unprotected, per ESPN's Tim Bontemps.
Atlanta is betting big on Murray fitting with Young. For the team's future, that bet better be correct.
San Antonio Spurs: A
I understand if Spurs fans are disappointed about trading an All-Star who won't turn 26 until September and has two years left on his contract. However, the value San Antonio got in return would have been difficult to turn down. As Murray moved toward unrestricted free agency and either bumping up his salary near the max or heading elsewhere, his trade value would have diminished rapidly.
By pushing the two picks from the Hawks three years into the future, the Spurs both increased the chances of those having lottery upside and timed them to land just as San Antonio's remaining young core should start paying dividends. In addition, the Spurs will get an extra first-round pick as early as next year from the Hornets that Atlanta got in the Cam Reddish deal.
For now, San Antonio's best pick is probably the team's own in 2023. It's worth remembering that the Spurs' decades of success started when a gap season due to injuries (primarily star center David Robinson) was rewarded by winning the Tim Duncan sweepstakes. I don't think it's fair to say at this point that French center Victor Wembanyama or G League Ignite guard Scoot Henderson (the projected top two picks in the recent 2023 mock draft from ESPN's Jonathan Givony) are at that level, but San Antonio can hope for a similar outcome.
There is still young talent on hand, led by the duo of Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell. Those young players will likely struggle with the increased offensive responsibility created by Murray's departure, but those growing pains could pay off in the long term. The Spurs also should be able to find minutes for all three of this year's first-round picks: guards Malaki Branham and Blake Wesley and forward Jeremy Sochan.
Pending a possible buyout for Gallinari, San Antonio could still create more than $25 million in cap space. That wouldn't be enough at the moment to make a max offer sheet to Suns center Deandre Ayton, but the Spurs could surely get there if they want to envision Ayton as the centerpiece of their rebuild. Alternatively, San Antonio could continue the slow build by using the room to take unwanted contracts from other teams.
― terence trent d'ilfer (m bison), Thursday, 30 June 2022 17:23 (one year ago) link
in case anyone wants to read zach lowe's thoughts on the "five most interesting players of the 2022-2023 season"
article start
It's time for our last preseason tradition -- my five most intriguing players for the coming season. We don't pick superstars or rookies. The goal is to find young-ish X factors.
TYRESE HALIBURTON, INDIANA PACERS
Haliburton understands the franchise-defining wager Indiana placed trading Domantas Sabonis to the Sacramento Kings for him: that Haliburton could be more than a second banana whose passing genius and gregarious personality draw in everyone. The Pacers were betting Haliburton could be an All-Star -- a foundational offensive fulcrum.
"Sacramento was great," Haliburton says. "I wasn't ready to be a full-time point guard when I got there. Playing with [De'Aaron] Fox helped. But now, this is everything I ever wanted. I get to be the full-time guy. I love this."
The transition requires a recalibration of Haliburton's game, maybe of his basketball soul. He is wired to be unselfish. He reads defenses from two steps ahead and gets rid of the ball early.
"In the modern game, where guys love to hold the ball, he's an outlier," says Rick Carlisle, Indiana's coach.
Whipping the ball early empowers teammates, catches defenses midrotation and triggers ping-ping-ping passing sequences.
"There are a lot of guys who only pass if it equals an assist," Haliburton says. "That's not who I am."
Those sequences often end with the ball returning to Haliburton, and he's productive in that position as a knockdown shooter -- 43.5% on catch-and-shoot 3s -- and as a catch-and-go driver.
But the Pacers need him to score -- to sometimes hold the ball longer, take an extra dribble. Haliburton rarely gets to the rim or the line.
"This whole summer has been about challenging my mind and become more of an a--hole in a sense, offensively," Haliburton says.
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Luka's bag of tricks includes lethal stepbacks, sneaky-quick drives and a 'Baby Dirk'3hTim MacMahonIt's a tricky balance -- hunting points and free throws without sacrificing what makes Haliburton who he is. "I want to score more," Haliburton says, "but I also think I'm one of the best passers -- if not the best."
He entered camp 18 pounds heavier after working with Indiana's strength coaches, Carlisle says. (The Pacers hope the added muscle will help Haliburton navigate screens on defense and hold up better one-on-one.)
He spent the summer working with Drew Hanlen, the renowned skills trainer, on going left and absorbing contact.
Hanlen had interns smash Haliburton after one lefty dribble and pushed Haliburton to plow through the punishment. "There were entire days where literally all I did was take hesitation dribbles left and get hit," Haliburton says.
"I have plenty of videos of him throwing the ball against the wall," Hanlen adds.
Haliburton has a habit of picking up his dribble early, around the elbow, when he has a runway ahead. His intentions are good. Sometimes, he spots a pass. If the defense snuffs that, Haliburton toggles to his floater -- one of the league's best; he hit an incredible 59% on floater-range shots last season.
That accuracy will be almost impossible to sustain. Free throws and dump-off dunks are more efficient.
"We'd watch film, and [Hanlen] would say, 'You came off that screen thinking pass, and I'm tired of that,'" Haliburton says. "'Go score.'"
That mindset will help in one-on-one situations -- something Haliburton focused on this summer for the first time. "Naturally, I am not an iso guy," Haliburton says.
He will have to bail out possessions late in the clock. He also expects to face more switching defenses, and his ability to counter that is perhaps the most important big-picture question about Haliburton adapting to a first-option burden.
"Everybody wants to be the [Toronto] Raptors now, and I'm prepared for that," Haliburton says.
Haliburton can slice apart any defense that puts two defenders on the ball. He does not have the blow-away burst to consistently roast speedy bigs on switches:
But Haliburton compensates with craft. He was 41-of-98 on step-back 3s last season, and he leverages the threat of that shot with hesitation dribbles that get bigs lurching. He studied how former Pacers guard Victor Oladipo would give the ball up against switches, retreat near midcourt and get the ball back with space to rev up.
Haliburton will put in the work, and set the tone for the organization. He gets to know every staff member -- asks them questions about their families and jobs. Chad Buchanan, the Pacers' GM, first heard of Haliburton when his nephew was a manager at Iowa State University -- and told Buchanan of the star who treated everyone with respect. Buchanan began watching Haliburton. "His game grows on you," Buchanan says.
After the Utah Jazz walloped Sacramento by 49 points his rookie season, Haliburton put off his postgame lifting and asked two staffers to accompany him to the practice court. Haliburton stayed until he made 49 3s -- one for each point in the scoring margin -- from seven different spots, for a total of 343 triples. He got home around 1 a.m.
He brings the same commitment to his new team.
"I want to bring the Pacers back where they belong," Haliburton says.
ANTHONY EDWARDS, MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVESEdwards strutted into his first postseason as if the NBA's biggest stage had been waiting for him all along. He seized Minnesota's offense as Karl-Anthony Towns battled foul trouble, and he averaged 25 points -- including 40% shooting on 9.5 3s per game.
He hypnotized defenders with crossovers and hesitation moves before rising above them -- or zooming through them. He hunted Ja Morant and tracked Morant on defense. He looked fearless and unfazed in a way only stars do.
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"I was having even more fun than it looked like," Edwards says. "It was the best basketball experience of my life."
With few exceptions, even teams that invest big in frontcourt stars -- as the Wolves have done pairing Towns and Rudy Gobert -- need star-level perimeter creation to chase titles. Trading everything for Gobert at age 30 was a massive bet on Minnesota's barely 21-year-old phenom becoming that star ahead of the typical pace. (Last month, Edwards apologized for anti-gay comments he made in an Instagram video.)
Those nights where Edwards looks unstoppable obscure how much work remains. He has been a below-average shooter from almost every spot. Like any young scorer, Edwards has struggled at times as a distributor -- missing passing windows, holding the ball too long. (The Wolves' offense too often ground to a halt in Minnesota's first-round loss last season.) Edwards ranked in the bottom-half in efficiency among high-volume ball-handlers in pick-and-rolls and isolations, per Second Spectrum.
But the foundation is so strong, and Edwards seems to know the path forward -- including as a passer. "I gotta start seeing the help before it's in my face," he says. "And getting off the ball early, making advance passes."
Good things happen when Edwards makes the simple play. It jolts Minnesota's offense into gear, and gets Edwards the ball back with an advantage:
When he sees them, he can make all the pick-and-roll passes -- including cross-court lefty slingshots. A D'Angelo Russell-Gobert action on one side could shift into a full-speed Edwards-Towns pick-and-roll on the other -- perhaps an easier set of reads for Edwards. Gobert instantly becomes Minnesota's best screener by miles. He's an easy lob target for Edwards, who has had issues finding bigs on the pick-and-roll.
Edwards hit 36% on 177 step-back 3s -- the sixth-most attempts in the league; he'll drill triples over drop-back schemes. Mid-rangers will always be core to Edwards' game, but he wants to turn more ultra-long 2s -- those dreaded 21-footers -- into 3s, and burrow to the rim more. (Edwards has averaged four free throws per 36 minutes; that number should get much higher.)
Edwards had only 19 post touches last season; bully-ball would be a game-changing weapon as Edwards continues targeting small guards on switches.
"My post-ups will be a lot better," he promises. "I'm working on it now. That's all I can say."
Alongside Russell and Towns, the Wolves need Edwards to be an off-ball threat too. He hit 41% on catch-and-shoot 3s last season. Duplicate that, and defenses will stick more closely to him. Edwards can exploit that attention with backdoor cuts, and needs to be a more active off-ball mover. You see glimpses -- including an encouraging habit of running into catches:
Edwards has talked about being a stopper on defense, and has the tools to do it. He's fast and well-balanced, able to slide in sync with ball-handlers. He stays under control closing out on shooters, and can wall off almost anyone chest-to-chest. He is the rare wing who offers fearsome rim protection. "I love blocking shots," Edward says. "I might get dunked on, but I'm still coming for you."
(Speaking of dunks: I asked Edwards if he was sad he no longer has the chance to dunk on Gobert. "I'm happy he's on my team -- for his sake," Edwards quips.)
His focus and fundamentals can wane; he can ball-watch and lose his assignment. "My only problem off the ball is seeing my man," he says. "I just kind of forget I'm guarding somebody." He's so confident in his speed and leaping, he sometimes strays too far from shooters -- assuming he can recover.
Edwards is also, frankly, a bad rebounder who doesn't box out. That was a team-wide issue for Minnesota; they cannot count on Gobert to solve it alone.
But Edwards sees the game on defense. He calls out coverages. He has all the ingredients of the player Minnesota needs him to be. It's just a matter of harnessing them in time.
DE'ANDRE HUNTER, ATLANTA HAWKSHunter -- fresh off signing a four-year, $95 million extension -- is a textbook case of how hard it can be for young players to find their rhythm. Injuries short-circuited every stretch of momentum -- including Hunter's scorching start to the 2020-21 season.
He entered the league as an NCAA champion and No. 4 pick, with ambitions of Carmelo Anthony-style mid-range scoring. That role didn't exist in Trae Young's offense; the Hawks needed Hunter to become a spot-up threat. Meanwhile, Hunter jostled with other young guys eager to prove their scoring chops.
"It's really difficult to establish your game when you come in with a group of talented players," says Nate McMillan, Atlanta's coach.
Hunter has bounced between roles -- spot-up guy with sprinkles of one-on-one -- but never looked comfortable in either. He has been a stilted isolation player -- unable to power through defenders his size, not quick or deft enough with the ball to get by wings. The Hawks scored a ghastly 0.823 points last season when Hunter shot out of an isolation or dished to a teammate who fired -- 159th among 198 players who recorded at least 50 isos, per Second Spectrum. He hit just 39% on mid-rangers after nailing 54% in 23 games in 2020-21.
Hunter spent the offseason training with Chris Brickley, and worked on cleaning up his handle, says Ty Jerome, Hunter's college roommate who joined him in Brickley's gym. Hunter's dribble can get high and loose. "The best wing scorers, their handle is tight," Jerome says. "Dre focused on that."
He has done well posting up mismatches -- often after screening for Young and forcing switches. Atlanta scored almost 1.12 points per possession directly out of Young-Hunter pick-and-rolls -- 52nd among 457 pairings that ran at least 100 such actions, per Second Spectrum. Atlanta milked that play against the Miami Heat in the first round of last season's playoffs:
Hunter averaged 21 points in the series, and shot 61% on 2s. McMillan vows to feature Hunter's one-on-one game -- including to punish opponents who stash their weakest defenders on him.
"You can give Dre the ball and ask him to make plays," McMillan says. It injects stylistic variety, and nudges Young to move more off the ball.
It's easier for Atlanta to get to the Young-Hunter two-man game when Hunter slides to power forward. McMillan plans to use that alignment; Atlanta's backup power forward options are unproven. That setup also gives Hunter a speed advantage against bigger defenders.
But Hunter's main job is spotting up, and he hasn't been good enough. He drained 37.5% from deep last season, but attempted a career-low 3.7 per game. Hunter passed up too many open looks to drive into nothingness. Teams don't treat him as a dangerous shooter.
"He's gotta be a spread shooter," McMillan says.
The bigger problem is shaky decision-making. It's not enough to be a 3-and-D guy anymore. You have to catch, drive and make the right read with the floor in flux.
Hunter has 224 career assists and 201 turnovers. He misses open players, and makes passes too late:
(He has the same issue on pick-and-rolls. Hunter recorded assists on only 3.4% of his ball screens -- lowest among 227 players who ran at least 100 pick-and-rolls, per Second Spectrum. Hunter shot on 66% of those plays -- second-highest, behind only Dillon Brooks of the Memphis Grizzlies.)
He sometimes overthinks after catching a kickout pass -- pass-faking and jab-stepping at ghosts, gifting the defense time to reset.
"It has to be catch and go, or catch and shoot -- not catch and hold," McMillan says.
Decisive Hunter gets places:
He is a solid defender. He's best on bigger wings and stretch fours, and Dejounte Murray's arrival should push him there. Hunter often defended waterbug point guards so the Hawks could hide Young elsewhere; Murray will do that now.
One knock: Hunter's poor rebounding; the Hawks defense has been scattershot with Hunter as a small-ball power forward.
"We need him to improve his rebounding," McMillan says. "This is a big year for him in terms of maturing and establishing his identity."
If everything clicks, Hunter could be the superstar role player every contender needs. Jerome compares Hunter's NBA journey to his time at the University of Virginia -- where Hunter rose from redshirt freshmen to top-five pick.
"I've seen this movie," Jerome says. "When he puts it together, Dre could be one of the best players in the league."
OBI TOPPIN, NEW YORK KNICKSGood things happen when Toppin plays, and the Knicks should be in the business of discovering why -- and whether that effect carries over against opposing starters. That success has come despite New York playing Toppin almost exclusively alongside rim-running centers -- marginalizing Toppin's skill as an explosive screen-and-dive guy. When Toppin bolts inside for lobs, he might bump into a center calling for a lob at the same time:
New York could solve this issue by playing Toppin at center or pairing him with Julius Randle, but they likely worry about torpedoing their defense and rebounding -- weak points in Toppin's game. Toppin somehow logged more minutes alongside Jericho Sims than Randle last season, and Tom Thibodeau, New York's head coach, has not seemed interested in exploring the Randle-Toppin duo much more. (I'd do it.)
Toppin has spent too much time chilling in the corners. You spot him bouncing on his toes, begging for some reason to get moving -- to get involved. But when the ball swung to him, he mostly refused open 3s.
"We all saw it -- he wasn't confident in his shot," Thibodeau says.
Defenders ignored him to muck up the paint:
The low-hanging fruit is Toppin becoming a better shooter, and he let it fly in New York's final 10 games when Randle was mostly out injured -- drilling 26-of-58 from deep. He honed that shot over the summer, and swears he's ready to fire.
"I'm super confident, and that's the only thing I needed," Toppin says. "I felt like I had a good shot. It was just about confidence. If I shoot and miss, just shoot the next one. I know that now."
"He got better and he didn't stop," Thibodeau says. "He's always in the gym."
Improved shooting would coax defenders closer to him -- unlocking what could be an explosive pump-and-drive game. Toppin is much more effective roasting defenders in rotation than beating them in static situations.
Even in tight half-court confines, Toppin's game can sing. He is a quick-twitch playmaker on dribble hand-offs and pindowns -- secondary actions that flow out of an initial pick-and-roll involving New York's centers. If Toppin's man lunges to help on the ball-handler, Toppin slips out of screens at turbo speed. He's fast enough to get to the rim before the opposing center crosses the lane to stop him.
"He's one of the quickest I've ever seen getting out of screens," says Anthony Grant, who coached Toppin at the University of Dayton.
He's a nifty passer too, with a knack for the always fun quarterback keeper:
Toppin should set more flare screens, and even run off pindowns -- anything to keep him active. He thrives in a fast-paced ecosystem with lots of ball movement, but New York's starters -- the guys Toppin should play alongside more -- didn't fit that ethos last season. Randle was a ball-stopper. The point guard spot was a sinkhole once the Kemba Walker experiment failed and Derrick Rose got injured. Perhaps Jalen Brunson, some creative coaching and a renewed commitment to passing could remedy that -- and benefit Toppin.
He'll get the offense moving anyway. Toppin is one of the league's most ferocious end-to-end runners, and should be even more dangerous trailing fast breaks this season -- jacking 3s and pivoting into his hand-off game. He can sprint into mismatches, and seal smaller guards under the rim.
"He can run all day," Thibodeau says. "His energy is a gift. It allows us to play at a different pace, and everybody likes that."
Toppin might leak out more than Thibodeau likes -- leaving New York vulnerable on the defensive glass. "We can't run if we don't rebound," Thibodeau says. The general rule, according to Thibodeau: If Toppin challenges a shot up high, run. If he's in the paint, try to secure the rebound and then sprint.
Toppin is a minus defender at both front-court positions, but he tries and talks. His biggest obstacle is a stubborn upright stance that makes it hard for him to slide.
"He's got some flexibility issues," Grant says.
Toppin tried to crouch lower this summer in defending guards -- including Brunson and Chicago Bulls guard Coby White in workouts. "Even if I can't get low, I have to find a way to stay in front of them and contest shots," Toppin says.
Right now, Toppin is a good backup big. If he stagnates or improves only a bit, that's what he'll be. But the actualized version of Toppin is an average defender and major plus on offense -- a true-blue starter. That's what the Knicks need him to be.
PATRICK WILLIAMS, CHICAGO BULLSWilliams may be the most important young X factor in the league, and the one who feels most like a blank slate. Williams has played only 88 games in two seasons after missing most of last season with a wrist injury. He's barely 21 -- younger than Edwards and eight first-round picks from the last draft.
He returned for last season's playoffs, and embraced the assignment of guarding Giannis Antetokounmpo (and sometimes Jrue Holiday). He looked a hair more aggressive on offense, averaging 12 points, doubling his 3-point volume and nailing 58% on 2s.
Opening Week on ESPN, the ESPN AppWednesdayKnicks-Grizzlies, 7:30 p.m.Mavs-Suns, 10 p.m.
FridayCeltics-Heat, 7:30 p.m.Nuggets-Warriors, 10 p.m.
*All times Eastern
A major short-term leap from Williams is Chicago's best and maybe only avenue of contending in the DeMar DeRozan/Zach LaVine/Nikola Vucevic era. Williams holds the keys to their next era given the Bulls dealt three first-round picks and Wendell Carter Jr. for DeRozan and Vucevic.
He hasn't lived up to expectations on defense, but chalk that up to youth and injury. Williams should grow into a very good, ultra-switchable alpha defender. He's huge and strong, and tries hard. In his one season at Florida State University, coaches often spotted Williams lingering after practice and early in mornings with an older teammate -- Wyatt Wilkes -- peppering Wilkes with questions and having Wilkes walk him through actions, says Leonard Hamilton, the Seminoles coach.
"Unlike most kids -- 'What are my stats? What are my minutes?' -- Pat only cared about getting better," Hamilton says. "He didn't worry about the NBA. He just wanted to learn."
He asks staffers for film on elite scorers, looking for clues on guarding them. He has worked on slithering around picks, and uses his giant hands and arms to disrupt passing lanes.
Offense is the wild card. So far, Williams has been a bit player -- a reluctant corner shooter and tentative dribbler. He defaults to his one-dribble pull-up -- an important shot, but not one to overdo.
Williams has good feel and vision with the chess pieces in motion. The Bulls have dabbled in using him as a screen-setter -- with Vucevic spotting up -- and Williams comes to life in that role, flipping rapid-fire between actions and slinging smart passes in space:
Williams tripled his screen-setting volume last season, per Second Spectrum, and early indications are we will see more of that. Zipping closer to the rim should generate more offensive rebounding chances for him. The Bulls may even experiment with Williams at center.
In his best screen-setting moments, Williams is a good playmaking power forward -- think peak Aaron Gordon in that role, but well short of the apex version in Draymond Green. He has hit 41% from deep; as a spot up stretch four, he brings to mind someone like Harrison Barnes. The blend of all those role players -- the ability to shift between those identities -- is a really, really good player.
That's fine now, with Williams so young and surrounded by three recent All-Stars. But the Bulls did not draft Williams No. 4 in 2020 for him to be a Barnes-Gordon hybrid. At some point, they will want more on the ball.
Even now, Chicago's coaches and stars encourage Williams to be less deferential -- to take the reins when action dictates it. (Williams joined DeRozan in Los Angeles this summer for DeRozan's "Hell Week" of early morning workouts and lifting. He also played pick-up in L.A. with several stars.)
Those around the Bulls whisper that Williams hasn't discovered how good he is. That tracks with Hamilton. When Hamilton sat with Williams to discuss declaring for the draft, Hamilton said that Williams asked, "What if I don't get drafted?"
Williams has run a piddling five pick-and-rolls per 100 possessions over two seasons, per Second Spectrum. His efficiency on isolations has been dreadful. He has nine career post touches, and that's a tool he needs as a screen-setter -- a way to exploit smaller defenders on switches. (Teams already hide their weakest defenders on him.)
When Williams kicks the skittishness and gets aggressive, he almost looks like a different player. It's jarring. If the Bulls want that more, all they have to do is ask, Hamilton says.
"If you tell him what you want," Hamilton says, "he's gonna give it to you."
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 19 October 2022 15:59 (one year ago) link
so much more of this nytimes sport section type shit on there now
https://i.imgur.com/ZV5QHyn.png
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 25 October 2023 14:26 (five months ago) link
I hope Pat Will makes it, just for Zach’s stock performance.
― Jeff, Wednesday, 25 October 2023 16:50 (five months ago) link
Anyone post the Lowe article on espn+ on Maxey?
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Friday, 10 November 2023 15:03 (four months ago) link
1. Tyrese Maxey and the Sixers are ... fine?
Every few weeks, one security guard at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia reminds Maxey of the unlikely series of events that led Maxey to the 76ers -- a rare stroke of strange luck for a franchise that has suffered some of the weirdest NBA melodramas: "Shout out Mike Muscala!" the guard chants, according to Maxey.
It is an inside joke, Sixers lore -- code that identifies a hardcore fan. The Sixers selected Maxey with the 21st pick in the 2020 NBA draft -- a pick that belonged to the Oklahoma City Thunder. The Sixers acquired it in 2016, traded it away, and then got it back in the deal that sent Markelle Fultz to the Orlando Magic. It contained a twist: Philadelphia would receive it only if it fell 21st or later; otherwise, the Thunder would send two second-rounders.
It came down to the wire in the Orlando, Florida, bubble. Muscala hit two 3s in the final 35 seconds of the Thunder's second-to-last game to help their deep reserves complete a comeback that meant nothing to that specific Thunder team and everything to these current Sixers. With that win, the Thunder pick was capped at No. 21.
Four years later, Maxey's ascension toward his first All-Star nod has the Sixers well positioned to pivot away from a spasm of deals that saw Ben Simmons and then James Harden come and go as would-be co-stars for Joel Embiid. Maxey is that guy now, averaging 25 points and 7 assists on nearly 50/40/90 shooting splits -- taking care of the ball and developing deeper pick-and-roll chemistry with Embiid every game. Maxey being this good is the most important positive thing to happen to the Sixers since drafting Embiid. If the rumblings around Embiid quiet -- if he chooses to ride out his career with the franchise that drafted him -- Maxey will be a big reason.
Philly is 6-1 after edging the Boston Celtics on Wednesday, with the league's second-best net rating. The Sixers' passing numbers are almost identical to last season's. Harden's assists and touches have been redistributed across the roster in a faster and more democratic offense under new coach Nick Nurse.
The Sixers appear much closer to title contention without Harden than perhaps even they projected during the Harden stalemate. If that sustains -- if their championship-level No. 2 option is already in-house -- the pool of players the Sixers can target with the draft picks they received for Harden becomes much wider. Their play may also afford patience: Do they have to burn assets now if they are confident the same player -- or someone better -- might be available later, or even sign into their cap space in July?
Two players the Sixers nabbed in the Harden deal -- Nicolas Batum and "Process" favorite Robert Covington -- are contributing already. The Sixers can slot three switchable wing shooters between Maxey and Embiid in combinations involving Batum, Covington, Tobias Harris, Kelly Oubre Jr. and De'Anthony Melton. Patrick Beverley and Paul Reed round out the core rotation.
The formula is working, but the Sixers need one more ball handler to fortify them. They will spend the months before the trade deadline looking, with one eye on the maximum cap space they can carve out this summer.
They have extricated themselves from the Harden morass as cleanly as possible, if not with quite the asset haul they craved. This outcome is better than either losing Harden for nothing or re-signing him to a massive multiyear contract. They have optionality and hope.
"I was prepared for one role if James came back, and if he didn't, I was prepared to be a lead guard," Maxey told ESPN.
He worked and watched film in the offseason with Embiid and Drew Hanlen, Embiid's longtime trainer. When Hanlen visits Embiid in Philadelphia for what are intended to be individual workouts, Maxey volunteers to help as the passer feeding Embiid -- leading to jokes that Maxey is an "intern."
"Joel is the most important player on our team, and I need to know how he likes to catch the ball," Maxey said. "That means post entries, when he's the trail man, everything." (Maxey is a very good entry passer, and he and Embiid love a little pitch-back action when Embiid trails Maxey in transition.)
It means lots of pick-and-roll, and Maxey is a much different sort of partner there than Harden. He has worked on slowing down, giving Embiid time to find pockets in the lane. In the opening two games of this season, Maxey was passing early -- with Embiid catching 20-plus feet from the rim. With every game, Maxey hits Embiid more in his sweet spots near the foul line.
The two are honing a mean empty-side pick-and-roll game on the left wing. Maxey loves to reject picks -- zooming away from them -- and does so much more often than Harden. It is a way for him to occupy Embiid's defender, maybe force a switch, and give Embiid daylight for pick-and-pop actions. Maxey is learning to stay in touch with Embiid on those actions -- to not outrun him. Embiid is learning how to make himself available -- when to cut, when to fade for 3s.
Maxey can punish switches with step-back 3s, but he has made a concerted effort to roast bigs off the dribble -- to reorient Philly's offense toward the rim and open up drive-and-kick chances:
Maxey is happy to make the first simple play -- the easy kickout or swing pass that keeps the machine moving. (The Sixers could stand to shoot more 3s.)
He is shooting 54% from floater range on a dizzying variety of runners -- bank shots, high-arching moon balls, hot-potato floaters Maxey flicks even before jumping. That is an important weapon against defenses that sell out to take away any pass to Embiid -- something Boston did in last season's conference semifinals.
"They say the midrange game is a lost art, but it's big for small guards -- especially in fourth quarters," Maxey said.
He has helped stabilize the Sixers when Embiid rests; Philly has outscored opponents by nine points per 100 possessions when Maxey plays without Embiid, per Cleaning The Glass.
Challenges await -- blitzes, complex help schemes, offenses that hunt Maxey. But Maxey seems up to it. He has given the Sixers a chance at stability -- something this franchise has not known for far too long.
"I work so hard every summer to get 1% better," Maxey said. "I'm ready."
― call all destroyer, Friday, 10 November 2023 15:22 (four months ago) link
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Friday, 10 November 2023 15:36 (four months ago) link