The Finances of Football

David Conn's got a series of pieces on John W Henry running at the moment. Part one; part two. I've only read the first part so far. It's good, though mostly about baseball.

Red Sox implosion continues. Should think Henry will have his hands more than full with that other the winter. Need to find new manager, new GM, and sort out a "cancerous clubhouse". Some starting pitching would be good too. Still Carl Crawford only has 6 years left on his $100m+ contract so all's well.

Sounds like they should sign Andy Carroll to give the place a lift.

Clubs don't share ticket and merchandise revenues so why should we share our TV income with everyone else?

http://i.imgur.com/IGUV2.jpg

Because a club's value is partly its value as a stand-alone business, and partly its value as 1/20th of its league. Pooling certain income raises the value of the league part, to the eventual benefit of the club itself.

Where I think everyone else has it wrong is that I believe the big clubs know this, don't give a stuff, and will happily move forward by ditching their current leagues for 1/20th share of a far more lucrative league.

Clubs don't share ticket and merchandise revenues so why should we share our TV income with everyone else?

― Chris, Friday, 14 October 2011 13:35 (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
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you need another team to play! should that team not make any tv revenue from a liverpool game? if so, why play them?

think it's not that simple, IK.

A league derives value from the teams playing therein. A league of Stokes and Blackburns would not long enjoy a billion-euro television deal.

Obviously the top five or six clubs will streak away from the rest of the league if this happens, but it'll be harshest on the newly-promoted clubs. Even the Fulhams and Evertons of this world, if astutely managed, will manage to do okay out of it by virtue of being in the Premiership year in year out. They might do well by signing popular Korean or Japanese players as well, which would ramp up the value of their deals in particular markets.

This will be very very harsh on newly promoted clubs like, say, Swansea, who will struggle to sell their overseas rights for very much and will struggle to compete with teams like Bolton and Stoke let alone anyone further up. In time, you'll see the same teams yo-yoing year in year out.

I know that xp, what I mean is that a league of Utd, Barcelona, Bayern, Milan, etc would be worth so much that I simply can't see it not happening. A club like Barcelona play maybe ten top-drawer matches in a year, plus about forty middling-to-dud games. The hike in value from them switching that ratio around would be so huge that it can't not happen imo.

Stoke? Blackburn? Pah.

http://andersred.blogspot.com/2011/10/real-problem-with-liverpools-media.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAndersredBlog+%28the+andersred+blog%29

I do bang on about a European league a bit, and not sure anyone really wants it, but the numbers make it inevitable I think. Basically the idea is just that a single market must gravitate to a single league - since Bosman etc that market has changed to a European one is all.

xp to IK - would that actually be an attractive proposition? I don't mean morally - obviously it would mean the richest clubs completely screwing all the others. I mean would anyone be *that* interested in some kind of European Premier League replacing domestic leagues? Personally it doesn't capture my imagination. I generally find the group stages of the CL boring and only really get interested when it reaches the knockout stage (and often not even then). The novelty of Man Utd v Juventus and Chelsea v Real Madrid week after week, year after year, will wear off pretty rapidly.

This will be very very harsh on newly promoted clubs like, say, Swansea, who will struggle to sell their overseas rights for very much and will struggle to compete with teams like Bolton and Stoke let alone anyone further up. In time, you'll see the same teams yo-yoing year in year out.

Yeah but we deserve a bigger slice of the piece. 18 league titles, 5 European cups - we've earned our pie. It may even given the little teams a kick up the arse to get closer to us. Nothing's stopping Swansea from touring China.

why should real madrid subsidise psv just because they play in the same league? fuck them, it's time for a hyperleague with just madrid and city imo

Pretty sure it'd be much more attractive worldwide where no-one cares about Bolton or Real Zaragoza; it's hard to imagine what it'd be like for domestic fans, but I'd guess that derbies apart, it's not going to be much different as people primarily care about their own team, not the opposition.

The question is no doubt what's going to be more important, financially?

as people primarily care about their own team, not the opposition

They care about both.

How did that turn into a link? I must have gone mad.

Would PSV, Lyon, Porto, etc want to swap a chance to win the league on a regular basis with scraping 14th place in a Euro superleague, even if it meant more money? City and Real are going to outspend them, and have more lucrative rights, whatever happens.

Not all the time or all that much though, surely? How much would you really miss the games against Sunderland or Fulham? Have you missed pitting your wits against Middlesbrough these last few years.

What say you to my pie comment above, Matt?

Yeah but we deserve a bigger slice of the piece.

Oh ffs. Pie, not piece.

Yeah but we deserve a bigger slice of the piece. 18 league titles, 5 European cups - we've earned our pie. It may even given the little teams a kick up the arse to get closer to us. Nothing's stopping Swansea from touring China.

Actually over the lifetime of the Premiership you've "earned" close to fuck all, but whatever.

Would Man United, Chelsea, etc. want to swap a chance to win the league on a regular basis with scraping 5th or 6th in a Euro superleague, even if it meant more money?

It may even given the little teams a kick up the arse to get closer to us.

This is the sort of doublethink that Tory MPs trot out when they argue that reducing benefits will aid social mobility. It's nonsense.

What say you to my pie comment above, Matt?

I assumed it was just pure trolling

Perhaps we should give Nottingham Forest a slice of the pie as well? They've earned it more than Man City.

Thanks Matt.

Sorry, I'm being an arse on purpose. I don't back Ayre's proposal - these are just some of the arguments that have been thrown at me by a number of Liverpool fans. One dude's even gone as far as to say that anyone who attacks Ayre on this isn't a true supporter. Head, brick wall.

I withdraw my snarky comment about the five-times Ottoman Empire league champions then.

lol no worries.

Some very polite trolling there - was hoping you'd ramp it up a bit, personally.

Not all the time or all that much though, surely? How much would you really miss the games against Sunderland or Fulham? Have you missed pitting your wits against Middlesbrough these last few years.

No, not all the time, and I would be happy if we never played Middlesbrough again. But I think any Euro Super League would most likely be a closed shop with no relegation (otherwise how would it work? If, say, an English team got relegated, would they automatically be replaced by an English team? If so, why would that team be more deserving of a place than an Italian / German / French / whatever team?) so it would get stale very quickly. And while I'd agree that I don't salivate with excitement at the prospect of a trip to Sunderland, I don't think I'd be that excited about playing Dortmund or Marseilles twice a year every year for the rest of my life. At least with other English clubs you've got the potential for (the dreaded) banter at work - you're much likelier to work with a Fulham or Sunderland fan than a Lyon or Roma fan.

one thing that hasn't been mentioned-

if a european super league were to create a monopoly that killed off tens of clubs, maybe even hundreds of clubs around europe... where would the players worth playing in a ESL come from? Would it just be youth academies, places like Clarefontaine and buying Brazilians?

Hold on - why is that a link as well? Am I trapped in html hell?

italics link

Hmmmmmmmm. Premature senility.

what happens in, say, the us re gridiron pipecocking re promotion etc?

A European Super League is one of those things that seems to have been talked about for about 15 years. That it would, effectively, kill off the Champions League is still probably the biggest reason it's unlikely to happen.

I don't think the US does a very good job at nurturing talent, actually. At least aiui. It seems totally haphazard there, dependent on schoolteachers and a college system with different priorities. Maybe better for life skills, but chances of uncovering a Messi (in any sport except maybe baseball) are pretty remote because the elite are picked out very early on the basis of being the best/biggest kids, and never really tested until they reach the big leagues.

Sorry, got Sam & Darragh's posts muddled up there.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/12/football-broadcasting-deal-liverpool

Are those Merit Payments accurate? Blackpool were relegated but still received more than Wigan and Wolves? I thought they were dependent on your final league position.

Something to do with the fact that Blackpool were higher than Wigan and Wolves for most of the season?

Just checked the Premier League's official press release and the Guardian's figure is wrong (Blackpool actually received £1,513,512). So yeah, based on final league position.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/18/manchester-city-biggest-ever-loss

all in preparation for ffp tho.

Anyway,

i. Money doesn't matter to 'em
ii. They're making serious progress.

^^ this.

It's not a loss of 'bad management' or of a club going to shit, it's just a debt of buying a whole slew of players. Doesn't seem anything to be bothered about tbh. They have the money so they spend it. It's not really a "loss", they just spend way more than they receive.

petrol is how much a litre in the UK?
and then the money comes back from the middle east. to adam johnson, in the form of a contract extension.
perfect economic circle imo

you left out hookers and coke

http://www.itsroundanditswhite.co.uk/2012/01/06/evertons-blueprint-for-oblivion/

bleak picture, if it's all true

Some good stuff on that site. They could do with making their articles a bit longer imo.

Everton do concern me. They've got most of the ingredients of a big club but have built it into no clout whatsoever. Goodison doesn't even seem like a hopeless ground to me - it's big enough despite being hemmed in - yet they're pissing about with no-hoper schemes and robbing-peter-to-pay-paul while Moyes keeps them afloat.

The English game is destroying the Northern Irish game is also something I harp on about a lot, nice to see it from a different perspective. There's no way out though - you can't have a tiny league with a tiny geographic spread, that is also a good league objectively worth watching anymore. They are simply incompatible.