ASK PETE

Charles Tyler or Charles Tolliver? and WHY?

wow, such a good q

here's some thoughts:

TYLER:
-was in early ayler bands and thus kind of de facto unfuckwithable
-two sick ESP records of his own
-outstanding contributions to MUSTEVIC records
-growth/development of style
-never got soft as he got old

TOLLIVER:
-more in the composer/mogul mold than a sick player
-started strata-east (and thus as a vector for black artistic-economic self-determination, dude is in a pretty rarefied class)
-awesome creative big-band work w music inc
-excellent compositions for bartz/roach/mclean-era proto-spiritual/creative jazz

it's tough. i admire tyler for his playing and his idiosyncratic balance of ferocity and tone/melody, and tolliver for the zeitgeist he and his compositions represent. this is not to dismiss tyler's role as a thought-leader or tolliver's playing.

it's two different kinds of jazz, and i like both. i guess i feel more need to own everything tyler touched than tolliver, but that may simply be due to the fact that tyler recorded less. i like tyler's three acts (ayler/tyler/reid), and ill give it to him in a photo finish.

Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful answer! I am not familiar with too much of Tolliver's work. I've got whichever one was (re?)issued on Arista Freedom, and I've heard a few Music Inc records over the years. Are there any of his recordings, or groups he recorded with, that you would recommend over the others?

ASK PETE:
Steve Reid or Lou Reed?

recommended tolliver:
jackie mclean -- "right now" sick tolliver composition
trumpet work/general vibes of max roach's members, dont git weary
side A of gary bartz's another earth
music inc's s/t and impact records on strata east

both geniuses, both fronting as esoteric/inaccessible but seeking fusion of some sort, but steve reid just never got famous, and it kept him from becoming the clown that reed became. reid has a small/impeccable discography, and regardless of how good the VU records are, reed made this an easy fight with all his dumbass post-VU shit. reid.

i mean, see also: "rock vs jazz" for some additional context here

but would i put "sister ray" and "lions of juda" 1-2 on a mixtape? you bet.

so you guys need to know anything or anything?

PETE:
What do you do when you feel overwhelmed by the world and life?

well, im a pretty strong believer in mental health treatment, long walks, taking up projects that function as time-passers, listening to private parts, talking with friends, and cleaning.

i know youre trying to save money, so focus on something that takes a long time, costs nothing, and distracts you from your anxiety. if you can do something (like sell some records, clean the house, take care of a loose end that's been nagging you) "productive," you can kind of capitalize on bad energy. it's not like youre gonna be super-stoked today, but at least when the fog lifts, you can have a clearer life.

but like -- sometimes you have to kind of hunker down and just let a set of feelings/circumstances that is bigger than you just roll on through. watch tv, etc.

have you ever considered a career as a life coach?

been working on re-doing our bedroom recently cleaning out closets etc. we bought some shelves we're gonna put up once we paint the walls. going through records to put up a big lot on ebay when i get back from RI next week -- lots of major label & private press folk/country rock/rural psych/ssw stuff i don't need to keep in my life. records i haven't listened to more than twice since i've lived in this apt. i might try to write something?

or read a book.

that all sounds great, man.

keep in mind, too -- this shit is temporary, and it can distort your thinking. you will feel better and less overwhelmed soon without having to CHANGE ANYTHING or whatever.

<3

is there a good record ralph towner LP?

not in my experience -- the only thing i like that he's even ON is terry plumeri's ONGOING which i think youve heard

how does one tell a first press of in the aeroplane over the sea? picked one up today with cream labels and a lyric sheet insert that was with some other late 90s/early 00s stuff...

i guess i could have just asked discogs...

http://www.discogs.com/Neutral-Milk-Hotel-In-The-Aeroplane-Over-The-Sea/release/566284

crazy that this is going for $30+ on average considering it must have been continuously in print on LP from '98 until at least like '04 or '05.

was totally in print as recently as '11, dogg. but the kids can't get enuff.

it's probably the tasty classic oldie must-have of the Urban Outfitters turntable crowd.

well, merge did a 180 gram version that is differentiable in some way shape or form but as far as i can tell there's no distinction between a 98 press and an 06 press or whatever and them shitz is going for $30+ with regularity.

THE KIDS CAN'T GET ENUFF

carry on

The upcoming NMH show sold out in less than ten minutes here, I think.
No one seems impressed that I saw them four times in the 90s.
But they don't seem to understand why I am not interested in seeing them now.

i keep getting excited then disappointed that neil michael hagerty is/not playing soon

KIDS THESE DAYS. NO RESPECT FOR HISTORY, NO IDEA HOW GOOD THEY HAVE IT...!

hagerty shreds but i missed him last he was here.. great gig w teh howling hex a three years or so ago.

pete --
kids these days: classic or dud

all my friends' kids are total classics

The upcoming NMH show sold out in less than ten minutes here, I think.
No one seems impressed that I saw them four times in the 90s.
But they don't seem to understand why I am not interested in seeing them now.

― Trip Maker, Friday, August 2, 2013 2:50 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah they are playing at BAM, friend tried to get me to go, I was sliiiightly interested but decided not to go through the ridic procedure

I think she ended up refreshing browser 700 times and getting tix, so props

I did go see Olivia Tremor Control when they reunited and it was pretty great

sorry to junk up Pete's thread w/ Elephant 6 content

"Urban Outfitters turntable crowd."

Perfect, I've been looking for a way to describe that demo.

Ian, why don't you write a book on neat early folk and blues? I haven't looked much, but I'm sick of finding folk and blues books that don't just talk about the most well known names of the spectrum. I would love to read about the approach and history of all of that stuff. Is that a boring suggestion?

Olivia Tremor Control will always be great.

Ian, why don't you write a book on neat early folk and blues? I haven't looked much, but I'm sick of finding folk and blues books that don't just talk about the most well known names of the spectrum. I would love to read about the approach and history of all of that stuff. Is that a boring suggestion?

― Evan, Friday, August 2, 2013 8:13 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

or hey we could just use this thread for asking ian about early folk blues i dont mind or anything

IAN: Could you tell us all about early folk and blues? (Start at the beginning)

Charles Tyler or Charles Tolliver? and WHY?

― i guess i'd just rather listen to canned heat? (ian), Tuesday, July 9, 2013 5:10 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wowowow here's some evidence for the dissenting opinion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udt7Rud70A8

Hey Pete can you tell me anything about dawn records? http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Labels/dawn.htm Or can you recommend anything else like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmUpirKSf1k

i dont know a ton about dawn, but i can attest to this being great! in general, i love britjazz -- you know chris mcgregor's brotherhood of breath record? thats a killer in the same vein. i guess comus's first record is on dawn too! and a lot of mungo jerry.

ah! and now i see that these are different DAWNs. i dont know anything on that dawn. charlie rouse has a small but excellent body of work as a leader, and a LOT of work with monk. this sure looks good!

rouse's strata east record is one of favorites of the label

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAnoz4CN70w

the jazzville records are good. that record by the 4 Most is kind of a dud and i love 50's vocal group jazz.

i love Seeco. the guy who started Dawn owned Seeco.

Dawn records aren't the most sought after jazz records, but they are really not easy to find.

Yeah I've seen most can be found under $50. I think I'm going to start collecting them. I'm really getting into 50's jazz especially if it boarders on thick easy listening vocal exotica. I love how the Les Jazz Modes song mixes the operatic vocals in!

So Seeco is a latin jazz label?

http://www.bsnpubs.com/latin/seeco.html

seeco put out tons of cool odd records. collect them all if you dare.

Hey Pete have you heard Pete La Roca's Turkish Women at the Bath? Is it a "different" sort of jazz record, worth tracking down? I noticed in a listing of exotica/outsider jazz records and wondered why they included it in the sells list.

i love that record!

ive never had that version, but i have/have had this bizarrely repackaged version: http://www.discogs.com/Chick-Corea-Bliss/release/1267813

once i get the OG (not actually too too hard or $$$ to find?) ill definitely hold on to it for life!

Happy Birthday Pete!! And Tyler too!

<3