dude u r going to CHINA now
― ice cr?m, Sunday, 11 October 2009 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link
hay how good is hku? i saw an article the other day about asian universities making themselves known as a presence in the top 100 worldwide and started wondering whether i should follow that. ooh, 24th apparently
― thomp, Sunday, 11 October 2009 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link
what was your idea of what your degree was for when you were degree-ing, by the way? 'cuz (no offence intended here) i kind of doubt you went to class every day going "yup, only two and a bit more years and this effort i am making now in a think i am interested in is going to lead to a job"
― thomp, Sunday, 11 October 2009 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link
I was told going into college (by parents, college counselors, etc.) that a college degree is what you need for a full time, salaried job with benefits, basically, and a liberal arts degree is fine for this because nobody cares about your major. So when I graduated, I didn't expect to get a fantastic job in anthropology (what would that even BE?), but I was surprised that it was so insanely difficult to even get an interview for a full time job, and that I ended up with multiple part-time hourly jobs instead (and not $400/wk like that bartending girl!). This was the case for a lot of people I knew - I don't know to what extent we can blame it on structural issues or luck (the job market kinda sucked last October/November, and still does) and to what extent it's our own fault, but I don't think "useless major" really factored into it at ALL.
― Maria, Sunday, 11 October 2009 23:51 (fourteen years ago) link
This thread is depressing.
― Mr. Snrub, Monday, 12 October 2009 01:16 (fourteen years ago) link
I didn't expect to get a fantastic job in anthropology (what would that even BE?)
Management consulting.
― Mornington Crescent (Ed), Monday, 12 October 2009 01:16 (fourteen years ago) link
what was your idea of what your degree was for when you were degree-ing, by the way? 'cuz (no offence intended here) i kind of doubt you went to class every day going "yup, only two and a bit more years and this effort i am making now in a think i am interested in is going to lead to a job"― thomp, Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:12 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― thomp, Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:12 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
that was part of it for me, actually. "i'm gonna teach or i'm gonna get paid to write, even if its soul sucking writing its writing and itll keep those muscles limber."
going to china to teach (& assuming i stick around for a longer term maybe doing marketing work) is a way of getting to teach--which i've wanted to do since about 6th grade when i thought "man i could teach this class better than this clown"--without having to go through the expensive process of texas cert requirements,for which i've neither the money or free time atm due to shit pay job unrelated to degree.
plus obv marketing experience there gets me a decent foot in the door if i come back and want to do it here.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 12 October 2009 01:21 (fourteen years ago) link
there was a whole weird psychology to my last couple years where i was trying to get it done within a 4 year deadline so my loans would be forgiven under this program, so i just pushed as hard as i could to get it done so i'd be ~finished~ and finally be able to get a job where i could actually use the skills & talents i have that are unrelated to how good i am at being a fry cook in a suit.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 12 October 2009 01:23 (fourteen years ago) link
"fry cook in a suit" is my current euphemism for my "manager on duty" position in the hospitality industry btw
btw this whole souring thing kinda started this week when i realized that an entry level admin assistant job ("applicants must possess a high school diploma or GED") i applied for with the city has a starting pay higher than i'm making with the ~big raise~ i just got
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 12 October 2009 01:25 (fourteen years ago) link
and this is in austin, which is supposed to be ~insulated~ from the recession
I'd never heard this. Tech and energy (the two biggest industries in Austin, IIRC) are far from immune, and Austin real estate was absurd during the boom.
― smashing aspirant (milo z), Monday, 12 October 2009 01:25 (fourteen years ago) link
So when I graduated, I didn't expect to get a fantastic job in anthropology (what would that even BE?), but I was surprised that it was so insanely difficult to even get an interview for a full time job, and that I ended up with multiple part-time hourly jobs instead (and not $400/wk like that bartending girl!).
^yes, this^
I got a psychology degree, and I while I knew I wasn't going to pursue it past a bachelor's, I figured that getting all A's and graduating with honors would at least land me a halfway decent job. Nope. I couldn't get interviews anywhere, not even for a temp agency, and ended up doing data entry for a year while still trying to call temp agencies and still not getting jobs. fuuuuck dude. Then I pulled a proto-Hoos and went to China to teach English, then I went to grad school when I got back. good luck USA
― I got RIPPED in 4 weeks (Z S), Monday, 12 October 2009 01:27 (fourteen years ago) link
what was your idea of what your degree was for when you were degree-ing, by the way?
i switched into math from mechanical engineering thinking it would be more "useless" (fun) and i could just go to grad school to be a mathematician, and it sort of was but then i ended up not liking it. now i feel like i wish i knew more about machines and energy and stuff but that's just grass-is-greener and i know i'd be miserable in the typical engineering workplace so it's ok.
― steamed hams (harbl), Monday, 12 October 2009 01:28 (fourteen years ago) link
tbqh, as someone who's never been able to attend full-time, fuck all the bitching about the post-grad world.
― smashing aspirant (milo z), Monday, 12 October 2009 01:29 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm feeling conflicted about my Lit degree now - damn I like being able to analyze texts and breaking down arguments/making arguments and stuff but sometimes I wish I did a hard science where there are, you know, real answers that you just can't deconstruct into oblivion
― dyao, Monday, 12 October 2009 01:49 (fourteen years ago) link
kinda wanna go to lit grad school but I have a vision of a bunch of serious looking dudes in sweaters going "it complicates the text, do you see" over and over
― dyao, Monday, 12 October 2009 01:52 (fourteen years ago) link
haha yeah. "i think he did a good job problematizing the construction of ethnicity," etc.
― Maria, Monday, 12 October 2009 02:03 (fourteen years ago) link
always been pretty confused by my fellow english majors who regret or resent their degrees. unless you take for granted or begrudge your uh reasoning or writing skills
― don't blame pitchfork, blame america (call all destroyer), Monday, 12 October 2009 02:12 (fourteen years ago) link
I would strongly dissuade anyone from pursuing graduate work in English unless you:
A) couldn't imagine doing anything else but being an English professor &B) are comfortable moving to wherever the jobs are &C) get into a program that will cover most or all of the cost &D) are completely aware of how extremely difficult it is to obtain a tenure-track position &E) are aware that, even if you do land a TT job, you will most likely be working at a teaching institution, where you have relatively little time to focus on your own research.
If all that's cool with you, go for it. But as far as I know, most people who go this route don't end up with the TT job. Which is almost definitely what you'd want to end up if you're pursuing a PhD in English.
― kshighway1, Monday, 12 October 2009 02:13 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah I read this article recently and it's done a pretty good job:
Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don't Go
I'm trying to figure out what kind of grad school besides humanities a lit degree sets you up for; so far it's lol law school
― dyao, Monday, 12 October 2009 02:27 (fourteen years ago) link
if you like real answers you will *hate* law school
― steamed hams (harbl), Monday, 12 October 2009 02:30 (fourteen years ago) link
If anyone's considering graduate work in philosophy, you should probably read all of the following:
http://philosophysmoker.blogspot.com/ ( As well as their old archives here: http://philosophyjobmarket.blogspot.com/ )
http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/advice_for_academic_job_seekers/http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/issues_in_the_profession/
― kshighway1, Monday, 12 October 2009 02:30 (fourteen years ago) link
xxp uh you could pretty much go for anything non math or science related ime if you really wanted to
― don't blame pitchfork, blame america (call all destroyer), Monday, 12 October 2009 02:31 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah, I really gotta figure out what else I'm interested in besides humanities stuff.
― dyao, Monday, 12 October 2009 02:34 (fourteen years ago) link
dyao, I think I had read that article before, but I just re-read it and it seems fairly spot-on to me. Thanks for posting the link.
― kshighway1, Monday, 12 October 2009 02:43 (fourteen years ago) link
harbl yeah I can see that but I have to imagine it is a step above lit 'real answers' in terms of realness
― dyao, Monday, 12 October 2009 02:49 (fourteen years ago) link
not really dude
― Bobby Wo (max), Monday, 12 October 2009 02:50 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean not that i know
what is real, max
― dyao, Monday, 12 October 2009 02:53 (fourteen years ago) link
http://caravanofdreams.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/buddha-enlightenment1.jpgHuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
― I got RIPPED in 4 weeks (Z S), Monday, 12 October 2009 02:55 (fourteen years ago) link
All English majors know that Lacan is the go-to guy for everything about the Real.
― kshighway1, Monday, 12 October 2009 02:58 (fourteen years ago) link
it's not really a step above. more of a lateral move i suppose. anyway it's really annoying what kind of arguments people can make to support whatever shitty conclusion they want. and how this can go on for a full class period. in practice it's a little better because there is a real person involved. but then you read a case where the judge has done the same thing. it sucks. it's not any more based on "reality" than your literature stuff. i like it (maybe because i like uncertainty and games, and thinking about stuff like literature lol) but it's messy.
― steamed hams (harbl), Monday, 12 October 2009 02:59 (fourteen years ago) link
do law people worry a lot about their writing style or do they just ram their points through in whatever way they see fit
like half the problem I have with writing in lit is that not only do I want to make a good point, I want to do it in style
― dyao, Monday, 12 October 2009 03:03 (fourteen years ago) link
i worry about my writing style but everyone says it's very good ^_^. a lot of people do not seem to understand what writing is.
― steamed hams (harbl), Monday, 12 October 2009 03:04 (fourteen years ago) link
People don't misuse outdated theoretical apparatuses like Freudian psychoanalysis and deconstruction to support their conclusions in law school though, I'd assume? Which at least makes your work there slightly more based in reality than a lot of what passes for "cogent argument" in English departments.
― kshighway1, Monday, 12 October 2009 03:04 (fourteen years ago) link
Man, I wished that the undergrad English classes I took dealt with critical theory in any significant way; I had to take philosophy classes for that (as well as a cultural studies course while on study abroad in the U.K.).
― M. Grissom/DeShields (jaymc), Monday, 12 October 2009 03:04 (fourteen years ago) link
Not that deconstruction is outdated, per se, but the manner in which it is deployed as a critical methodology in certain instances in the context of English departments is terrifying.
― kshighway1, Monday, 12 October 2009 03:05 (fourteen years ago) link
jaymc, what did your philosophy classes cover? At my college, all of the post-Heideggerian philosophy, which the exception of Gadamer, was housed in the English department. In philosophy we had the opportunity to study anything between the pre-Socratics and Gadamer, and that was good but lacking. I mean, a lot has happened since Being and Time.
― kshighway1, Monday, 12 October 2009 03:07 (fourteen years ago) link
I did a lot of Freudian psychoanalysis in college, death drive and all that; my professor based his career on his reading of The Pleasure Principle
― dyao, Monday, 12 October 2009 03:07 (fourteen years ago) link
xpost
Thankfully, being an English major, I was able to study Zizek, Derrida, and many others.
Being a philosophy minor, I was lucky enough to obtain more of a firm grounding in the Western philosophical tradition than many of my peers. Even then, though, there was still no opportunity to study, say, Deleuze or any of the thinkers in the Speculative Realist movement. That being said, I'm thankful for what I did get to study.
― kshighway1, Monday, 12 October 2009 03:09 (fourteen years ago) link
xxxxxp eh no but imo it's a mistake to be all like these enlightenment principles are grounded in reality and freud isn't. tbh i don't even like to think of stuff as "based in reality" and not based in reality. i don't know. this could go on forever, i can't even explain it to myself.
― steamed hams (harbl), Monday, 12 October 2009 03:10 (fourteen years ago) link
lol lawyer
― Bobby Wo (max), Monday, 12 October 2009 03:11 (fourteen years ago) link
see dyao this is what i mean
yeah, i didn't even do that on purpose
― steamed hams (harbl), Monday, 12 October 2009 03:11 (fourteen years ago) link
you get to create your own reality though, which is really useful
yeah max but lawyers can get paid $$$ to do this
― dyao, Monday, 12 October 2009 03:12 (fourteen years ago) link
dyao, was the Freud guy a relatively old professor?
I recently heard an English major talk sadly about how all of the psychology professors only mention Freud in passing. My response to that attitude is to basically fault a lot of continental philosophy and critical theory for not incorporating the insights of empirical psychological research sooner. Many people in English seem to feel like once they read Freud (or Lacan) they have a complete and unfuckwithable grasp of the human psyche.
― kshighway1, Monday, 12 October 2009 03:12 (fourteen years ago) link
Which is bullshit.
dude you said you wanted real answers not $$$! xxpost
― steamed hams (harbl), Monday, 12 October 2009 03:12 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah kshighway, very old, and I'm not even sure he still remembers me (though I took two classes with him)
― dyao, Monday, 12 October 2009 03:13 (fourteen years ago) link
at least english professors have the decency to be deeply anxious about authenticity
― Bobby Wo (max), Monday, 12 October 2009 03:13 (fourteen years ago) link