itt a strange man asks if you saw the ass on that one

to look at this from a male perspective, chicks dig smart men who know boundaries

and yeah miss spacecadet has given eloquent voice to a regular feature of most women's lives, one which men are often only too happy to ignore

sure you probably get teenagers yelling "nice threads" or "hey baldy" the second your hairline recedes even slightly

I usually get random strangers calling me gay for some reason -- I have gotten "are you gay or what, kid???" or "you look like you like to get fucked in the ass" among other things -- this puzzles me especially because I do not dress/act particularly gay

why is everyone misunderstanding each other on purpose

Everyone isn't misunderstanding each other on purpose, everyone is talking about entirely different situations as if they were equivalent. I'm talking about encounters you can randomly have in social situations, such as being patrons in a bar or passing someone in the street, and Laurel is talking about interactions with people where some level of professional transaction is taking place, like interacting at work or buying something in a store. In both cases, conflating the two in terms of expected behavior isn't conducive to understanding the other person's point of view.

I think Laurel is correct that these types of interactions shouldn't happen in most reasonable professional situations (lol pr0n). I don't think racism and sexism are particularly equivalent but I know that if I let the degree to which people discuss/make judgments on me about my race make me ill, I would never be able to leave the house.

back in the early 80s a guy standing next to me on a street corner turned and said "I'd like to fuck you in the ass" I was like hey I know this is NYC and all but wtf. seriously living in a largely gay neighborhood back in those days gave me a different perspective on the "nice butt" shout-out issue.

x post

(wait I didn't edit that properly, Laurel is talking about social interactions as well and treating them equally; I do not treat them equally)

itt a butt

(__!__)

and when it keeps happening you do start to think, y'know, if THIS percentage of guys will just say it outright, what is the percentage of men who just don't let me know about it to whom I am permanently a chunk of livestock at a cattle market, waiting for their public appraisal of whether my flesh is acceptable because nothing else about me matters? When I am talking to even the nice-seeming guys, when I am in a job interview with potential future managers, are all the decisions about me already made?

and i'd say you are likely ~overthinking some shit~ and i pity you not being able to smell the damn roses every once in a while

dan is right about there being different situations here, although there are a few universals. of course, in my last few posts i have been ignoring the primal desire to comment on ass w/o further action or disclosure to owner of ass; i am going straight for the 'approaching and making oneself known' stage. some men enjoy clandestine ass-comment; they're assholes, but they're not molesting. trouble is this behaviour is a slippery slope TOWARDS molesting and is a mindset to be avoided.

curtis they were jealous of u

Everyone isn't misunderstanding each other on purpose, everyone is talking about entirely different situations as if they were equivalent. I'm talking about encounters you can randomly have in social situations, such as being patrons in a bar or passing someone in the street, and Laurel is talking about interactions with people where some level of professional transaction is taking place, like interacting at work or buying something in a store. In both cases, conflating the two in terms of expected behavior isn't conducive to understanding the other person's point of view.

this is so, so otm and what i wanted to post an hour ago but couldnt be bothered to b/c i was on my phone

which is why i likened it to the tuomas thread

your mom is a clandestine ass-comment

OK so I remembered a pretty good example if we're talking about this sort of thing in a professional context that happened when I was living in London. I was attending an external meeting with my boss and two other colleagues. Upon arriving my boss introduced me to the other parties present and one of them, an older Jamaican man, said while shaking my hand, "Erica B0c!h@rt? More like Erica Break your heart!". It did catch me off gaurd but because I was shocked that anyone would say this sort of thing at a business meeting and I was honestly think he was, in his own weird way, trying to be sweet. Maybe if he had said something that was lewd I would have felt differently but my reaction to this was more lol @ the inappropriate old Jamaican dude than anything else.

some men enjoy clandestine ass-comment; they're assholes

*or they are teenagers

to whom I am permanently a chunk of livestock at a cattle market, waiting for their public appraisal of whether my flesh is acceptable because nothing else about me matters? When I am talking to even the nice-seeming guys, when I am in a job interview with potential future managers, are all the decisions about me already made?

It's incredibly depressing to me that anyone would view the world this way. I am sure that there are men who think this way exist but I'd like to think they're few and far between but maybe that's naive of me, I don't know. Regarding those men who do think this way - they are obviously people who are not worth even five minutes of my thoughts and anyway, I am confident that the minute I open my mouth it will become clear that I am a lot more than "a chunk of livestock at a cattle market".

I don't think it's that the men who do this are few and far between; it's that the men who do this CONSTANTLY NON-STOP AT ALL TIMES REGARDLESS OF SITUATION AND BOUNDARIES are few and far between.

some men enjoy clandestine ass-comment; they're assholes, but they're not molesting. trouble is this behaviour is a slippery slope TOWARDS molesting

Really?

lol so lj you realize you just said that everyone on the 77 WS threads is on the slippery slope to becoming molesters, right

we already knew that

Guys, it's 11:30 on the East Coast. Time for a Diet Coke break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdrE1VMxzoE

Doing it on an internet forum about celebrities is very different from doing it in real life about people who breathe the same air. I still find it distasteful here but it's more art-crit than raptor.

I am confident that the minute I open my mouth it will become clear that I am a lot more than "a chunk of livestock at a cattle market".

― bear say hi to me (ENBB), Wednesday, December 2, 2009 10:26 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I don't think it's that the men who do this are few and far between; it's that the men who do this CONSTANTLY NON-STOP AT ALL TIMES REGARDLESS OF SITUATION AND BOUNDARIES are few and far between.

― Huckabee Jesus lifeline (HI DERE), Wednesday, December 2, 2009 10:27 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

both A+ posts. Laurel seems to have a problem with people judging her on her looks before even getting a chance to know her on any other level. Very few people AREN'T bothered by that, men or women. It sucks but it's a fact of life. Obv being rude in any way about it or harrassing someone is abhorrent.

i'm starting to wonder if there's something wrong with me because this just doesn't bother me very much
it happens, somewhat infrequently, but just doesn't offend me in the same deep way it seems to get to laurel
it rarely actually offends me at all

you've got a tough hide...er let me rephrase that

example: one of my students winked and called me "ladyfriend" once and i just said "i am your teacher, not your ladyfriend" and he never did it again. he's just a doofus, not some predatory man-wolf.

ladyfriend?? is he like 70 y.o

well I think the thing is that ppl have wildly variable internal responses to ~this guy~ but I'd hope we'd all agree that a) it's not wrong for anyone to be just deeply upset by it and b) regardless of how you feel about the structural/sexual/political/metaphysical w/e that underpin this behavior, it's still not allowed and ought to be discouraged, basically because of (a)

just be excellent to each other imo

Doing it on an internet forum about celebrities is very different from doing it in real life about people who breathe the same air.

hey here is a shocking newsflash for you: CELEBRITIES ARE PEOPLE WHO BREATHE THE SAME AIR AS YOU DO

xp: I would remove the "still not allowed" part because it is patently obvious that it IS still allowed; otherwise yes, I agree.

i meant it in a poetic 'same immediate air, are in vicinity, are accessible IRL' way but whatevs

I don't think it's that the men who do this are few and far between; it's that the men who do this CONSTANTLY NON-STOP AT ALL TIMES REGARDLESS OF SITUATION AND BOUNDARIES are few and far between.

This is the opposite of what this thread is saying, a lot of guys on here are saying, that's normal, all men think like that all the time, get used to it because it's not up to you. Now you want to have that both ways?

well the behavior I was referring to was that of the dude at the liquor store, not some hypothetical ilxor checking someone out

he was being a creep and should cio

he's like, 25? 26?
either way it was laughable and nothing else. i guess i have never expected that i am in control of my public image, and people are going to think whatever they want. how they behave is another matter -- it's not acceptable to continue to make people feel uncomfortable after they have expressed (verbally or otherwise) that they are uncomfortable.

That is actually not at all what this thread is saying, Laurel.

Or, at least, that is not what I'm saying.

It wasn't the original topic, but it has been said on this thread, and is frquently taken as true on ILX in general, and DEFINITELY in the world at large. Hence my over-emotional response, probably.

has anyone posted haters gonna hate dot gif? it is relevant to this thread!

I'm sorry guys - you lost me. Can you just clarify exactly what it is that is frequently taken as true on ILX and in the world at large? thx.

I was wondering that too just cuz a I did not read all of yesterdays business and b I think ppl are talking at cross purposes, which is normal for a clusterfucky thread

okay different women can have different responses to something and nobody need be considered "over-emotional"

well I think the thing is that ppl have wildly variable internal responses to ~this guy~ but I'd hope we'd all agree that a) it's not wrong for anyone to be just deeply upset by it and b) regardless of how you feel about the structural/sexual/political/metaphysical w/e that underpin this behavior, it's still not allowed and ought to be discouraged, basically because of (a)

― crazy farting throwback jersey (gbx), Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:56 AM (12 minutes ago)

i think this is right. i'm not that emotional about it the majority of the time because what is there to do, and i am a hetero and i know a lot of nice ppl, but i do wish people wouldn't act like getting upset and having it color your interactions with "normal" dudes is totally irrational and you should get over it. patronizing in my opinion

lol me & horseshoe forever

<3 <3 <3

yeah I was gonna say: what bothers me the most itt is that laurel feels the need to have to defend her rxn.

yeah and that passing spacecadet said she didn't like how people were all like "get over it" and guess what she got

i just want to say, Laurel, apart from the race stuff, i think you are routinely brave and awesome in these threads and i thank you!

I don't think it's that the men who do this are few and far between; it's that the men who do this CONSTANTLY NON-STOP AT ALL TIMES REGARDLESS OF SITUATION AND BOUNDARIES are few and far between.

This is the opposite of what this thread is saying, a lot of guys on here are saying, that's normal, all men think like that all the time, get used to it because it's not up to you. Now you want to have that both ways?

― WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, December 2, 2009 12:00 PM (7 minutes ago)

for the billionth time, you're not distinguishing 'thinking' and 'acting'. i have the right to objectify anyone i like; the onus is on me to react to these feelings in an appropriate manner in a working or social environment, or suffer the legal/disciplinary or social consequences (respectively)

Of course it's not wrong. If it upsets you, it upsets you! I'm just still a little unclear to what exactly it is that ppl find upsetting. Is it the fact sometimes people say wildly inappropriate things based on a woman's appearance? That's what I thought this was initially about. However, it seems to have become about men making judgements about women based around whether or not they find them sexually attractive. If it's the later then I really don't understand why this is upsetting. Of course men do this. We all do this on some level whether we realize it or not.

i've known enough crepey dudes in my life that laurel's rxn is justified

kevin the component of this that you are missing is exactly the thing that a passing spacecadet articulated that you then blew off as "overthinking"

I think there are two entirely distinct ways of interpreting the phrase "everyone does this offensive behavior nonstop". One is that, at any given point in time, someone is exhibiting the behavior described. The other is that everyone is exhibiting this behavior at all times. It is certainly understandable to be creeped out when you are talking about scenario B and someone else is talking about scenario A.