itt a strange man asks if you saw the ass on that one

I don't think it's that the men who do this are few and far between; it's that the men who do this CONSTANTLY NON-STOP AT ALL TIMES REGARDLESS OF SITUATION AND BOUNDARIES are few and far between.

This is the opposite of what this thread is saying, a lot of guys on here are saying, that's normal, all men think like that all the time, get used to it because it's not up to you. Now you want to have that both ways?

well the behavior I was referring to was that of the dude at the liquor store, not some hypothetical ilxor checking someone out

he was being a creep and should cio

he's like, 25? 26?
either way it was laughable and nothing else. i guess i have never expected that i am in control of my public image, and people are going to think whatever they want. how they behave is another matter -- it's not acceptable to continue to make people feel uncomfortable after they have expressed (verbally or otherwise) that they are uncomfortable.

That is actually not at all what this thread is saying, Laurel.

Or, at least, that is not what I'm saying.

It wasn't the original topic, but it has been said on this thread, and is frquently taken as true on ILX in general, and DEFINITELY in the world at large. Hence my over-emotional response, probably.

has anyone posted haters gonna hate dot gif? it is relevant to this thread!

I'm sorry guys - you lost me. Can you just clarify exactly what it is that is frequently taken as true on ILX and in the world at large? thx.

I was wondering that too just cuz a I did not read all of yesterdays business and b I think ppl are talking at cross purposes, which is normal for a clusterfucky thread

okay different women can have different responses to something and nobody need be considered "over-emotional"

well I think the thing is that ppl have wildly variable internal responses to ~this guy~ but I'd hope we'd all agree that a) it's not wrong for anyone to be just deeply upset by it and b) regardless of how you feel about the structural/sexual/political/metaphysical w/e that underpin this behavior, it's still not allowed and ought to be discouraged, basically because of (a)

― crazy farting throwback jersey (gbx), Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:56 AM (12 minutes ago)

i think this is right. i'm not that emotional about it the majority of the time because what is there to do, and i am a hetero and i know a lot of nice ppl, but i do wish people wouldn't act like getting upset and having it color your interactions with "normal" dudes is totally irrational and you should get over it. patronizing in my opinion

lol me & horseshoe forever

<3 <3 <3

yeah I was gonna say: what bothers me the most itt is that laurel feels the need to have to defend her rxn.

yeah and that passing spacecadet said she didn't like how people were all like "get over it" and guess what she got

i just want to say, Laurel, apart from the race stuff, i think you are routinely brave and awesome in these threads and i thank you!

I don't think it's that the men who do this are few and far between; it's that the men who do this CONSTANTLY NON-STOP AT ALL TIMES REGARDLESS OF SITUATION AND BOUNDARIES are few and far between.

This is the opposite of what this thread is saying, a lot of guys on here are saying, that's normal, all men think like that all the time, get used to it because it's not up to you. Now you want to have that both ways?

― WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, December 2, 2009 12:00 PM (7 minutes ago)

for the billionth time, you're not distinguishing 'thinking' and 'acting'. i have the right to objectify anyone i like; the onus is on me to react to these feelings in an appropriate manner in a working or social environment, or suffer the legal/disciplinary or social consequences (respectively)

Of course it's not wrong. If it upsets you, it upsets you! I'm just still a little unclear to what exactly it is that ppl find upsetting. Is it the fact sometimes people say wildly inappropriate things based on a woman's appearance? That's what I thought this was initially about. However, it seems to have become about men making judgements about women based around whether or not they find them sexually attractive. If it's the later then I really don't understand why this is upsetting. Of course men do this. We all do this on some level whether we realize it or not.

i've known enough crepey dudes in my life that laurel's rxn is justified

kevin the component of this that you are missing is exactly the thing that a passing spacecadet articulated that you then blew off as "overthinking"

I think there are two entirely distinct ways of interpreting the phrase "everyone does this offensive behavior nonstop". One is that, at any given point in time, someone is exhibiting the behavior described. The other is that everyone is exhibiting this behavior at all times. It is certainly understandable to be creeped out when you are talking about scenario B and someone else is talking about scenario A.

yeah kev you are sort of missing the point imo?

srs: breifly describe the "point"

If he is missing the point than I am too. Sorry but it's just not clear. There is a huge distinction between thinking and acting that needs to be made but hasn't.

the social interaction part of this b/n the two guys is massively uncomfortable imo. its like the guy is telling you he has a boner

lol!

It's like he's leading into inviting you over to his house to watch videos.

lol bnw otm

kev I guess what I perceive u missing is what spacecadet laid out: even tho u and lots of ppl routinely "objectify" or w/e attractive ppl in the street, it is still perfectly acceptable and rational to find that fact upsetting

i think laurel is totally reasonable and otm itt

Except for the predilection towards writing "nigger" for no reason, you mean.

ok if i havent made this clear, i don't disagree with that (3rica has said the same thing). i just don't think that's what we've spent 500 posts arguing about!

xp gbx

when I worked at a library the dudes who used to come in and watch porn always brought two liter bottles of sprite in with them for some reason

You ran a porn library?

kev I guess what I perceive u missing is what spacecadet laid out: even tho u and lots of ppl routinely "objectify" or w/e attractive ppl in the street, it is still perfectly acceptable and rational to find that fact upsetting

― crazy farting throwback jersey (gbx), Wednesday, December 2, 2009 12:23 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

GBX - please clarify whether you are talking about people doing this and voicing it outloud or just doing this internally.

nah I worked in the basement of a university library, on my training day the dude showing me around was like "uh people come in here and watch porn, call the cops if its child porn"

Were the bottles empty?

okie dokie, i think you're in for a lifelong uphill battle if you're going to be constantly worried about who's looking at you and who's thinking what, but i understand you on a basic level

xps

― brutt fartve (k3vin k.), Wednesday, December 2, 2009 10:20 AM (2 hours ago)

^^this is what i said earlier, how we've still been discussing this for 2 hours is anyone's guess

hammering on the but it's just thoughts aspect is unproductive, if only because everyone gets so defensive! ppl that check ppl out don't want to be lumped in with the creeps, and ppl that are uncomfortable with that kind of behavior don't want to be lumped in with hysterical prudes (I am guessing). xps on ZING

the bottles were full

one day a dude had a root beer bottle

bnw killin' it in this thread

btw it strikes me as fundamentally unfair that this thread is happening while Tuomas is tied up with the 80s album poll

I guess social networking blew up their spot though because people at the school just started posting their pictures up online with the words LIBRARY MASTURBATOR and shit

I stopped showing up to that job at some point

mostly i think my saying that there's nothing wrong with lusting someone has been confused for finding illegitimate the negative reactions of those who do

if desire begets speech then can one speak on desire

OK. Since nobody is answering the question and it has definitely not been clear throughout this thread . . . here's how I see it:

GENERALLY GROSS AND NOT OK AND PERFECTLY RATIONAL TO BE UPSET BY = Men making unwelcome advances or lewd comments to random strangers or women in pretty much any setting.

TOTALLY OK AND NOT ALL THAT RATIONAL TO BE UPSET BY = The fact that all people regardless of gender make judgements and have opions on one another based on our outward appearances which may lead to us thinking sexual thoughts about people we see but do not know. This means that yes someone who sees you walking down the street may think a sexual thougt about you and in their eyes you are nothing but your outter appearance but if you have not had any other interaction with them, of course this is going to be the case. We are animals and sex is a huge part of our world and interaction with one another.

patently false

for example