itt a strange man asks if you saw the ass on that one

i am saying that often i visualise sexual activity with people or between people i see or hear about; in some situations this is funny or excusable, but in most it jars horribly with any 'real' relationship we'd have, or it is voyeuristic; i have to admit i find certain 'taboo' or 'wrong' things fairly hot, in theory, but i can't think about them too much because the practice isn't good news, and in thinking about them i justify their existence. but then i am exceptionally liberal about things like sexual predilections, and regarding many practices it is a case-by-case issue as to whether i'd approve or not. as for creeping or imposing upon women, i figure i'm better off keeping my thoughts to myself unless i'm damn sure they'd be welcomed; i try and keep myself in check, and a relationship on non-sexual terms, until i've ascertained that a nicely commingled mindset has been established. there's so much more to lust and longing than the sexual acts themselves.

lj at least use bullet points or something i mean

Can I ask you guys a question without causing another shitstorm? OK good.

Do you think it's as offensive, not quite as bad or not bad at all/entirely different for a women to be called "beautiful" by a stranger as it to have someone say, for example, "damn you're sexy" or something like that? I guess I'm wondering if catcalls are so abhorrent because they're usually sexual in nature or if any comment directed at a woman based on her appearance would cause a similar level of offense to those ppl who are really disturbed by this.

IMO I'd rather not be told anything of that nature by a complete stranger but "beautiful" is preferable to "sexy" bcz it's less Tex Avery arooga-wolf tho I am reluctant to say it's more tactful.

no, i think it really depends on the comment and a lot of intangibles in the context, Erica. i've definitely been chatted up by random men in a way that was respectful before, and those encounter are awesome, they kind of make this whole man-woman thing seem less doomed.

to me, obviously anyone who does not feel like the man-woman thing is doomed is to be commended and envied! by me.

This is sort of an aside but being told to smile (which happens p often) pisses me off way more than any comment I've ever received about body/face/whatever but as I said earlier I sort of just shrug this stuff off. Also, I am 40% deaf in my left ear which comes in handy when I don't want to hear certain things.

oh i meant my friend's argument: he was, forgive me, actually being cap'n save a ho. that is, i said to him (not in so many words but) "well i think there exists at least some cohort of women that are ACTUALLY a-ok with exchanging sexual acts for whatever and i do not think that they are being trammeled over by the patriarchy...the decisions they are making are not the necessary result of paternalistic/male hegemony" or what the fuck ever. he REFUSED to believe this, and was basically like no all women that do this are victims and are only doing it to appease men and i feel very guilty about it and that's when i sorta peaced out because that shit is actually just bananas and very easily read as sexist

well you don't really know what the stranger's intent in saying that was, though if it were me i'd like to think they were just trying to be nice, even if it's a little gauche. Could see why others would see differently though

xp e

this thread is not so bad w/o people popping in and being like "ooooh what a clusterfuck" and getting all meta about it, imo
i think it is less bad because it's all on a spectrum but it might bother me not because of that particular stranger's comment but the cumulative effect of other public comments? it also depends a lot on the environment and other stuff...

those encounters usually involve a single man, rather than a man with his buddies, and they usually involve him not getting too physically close. ime.

btw everyone itt has been super reasonable imo

Kev - just to clarify - you're talking about the smile comment, right?

yeah, i mean even the encounters that end up going well, i sort of tense up when the dude approaches due to accumulated experience.

now i'm remembering this one guy last winter who was telling like all the girls who passed him on the sidewalk they were beautiful and doing it in a really leery way and when he passed me he said to smile

no I was responding to the "beautiful" comment actually, haha

also, this:

i am really having trouble wrapping my head around this idea that your thoughts are just like, doing as they please in your brain and don't even try to control them because they are just happening, like your thoughts are separate from you? who is driving this thing?

― harbl, Wednesday, December 2, 2009 10:03 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wait srsly?

the way some ppl pathologize what is otherwise non-pathological behavior is sort of alarming, imo! PPL THINK STUFF---ffs what shakey (i think it was him) said about caseworkers/detectives on child molestation/whatever cases was totally otm. if you are in the business of sorting through the wake of horrible things, YOU MUST NECESSARILY THINK ABOUT THOSE HORRIBLE THINGS.

so yes, awful thoughts happen to people that are driving this thing.

sorry. sorry. i am possibly heading towards the kind of posts that get sb'd. all i can say is that these days my overthinking divergent brain finds it very easy to see things from the woman's perspective; in fact it overthinks others' perspectives and frequently ties itself up in knots working out what everyone thinks when really it just needs to relax and concentrate on what it is thinking

but it is certainly true that women have it tough when it comes to being endlessly judged for looks - regarding erica's conundrum i reckon it would be best for the man to imply that he finds her attractive by showing interest in her apparel, whereabouts, reading material etc - it is not hard for a man to let a woman know he finds her attractive - he doesn't need to say it often

in the case of women who would be unsettled or weirded-out by being thought of as beautiful, such compliments could just be way too strong, or weird. there's a chance they might be like the falling of the scales but this is usually a fairy-story. the response is often 'come off it' or 'what do you want from me'. even more reason not to put it explicitly. just smile and engage! that is for the men, not for erica. please do not smile, erica. i want your best frown.

no i think you misunderstand me, i know very well you can't always control your thoughts

whoa yeah just read smile comment...sorry if you read it that way!

i was responding more to the idea that it would be *bad* to attempt to keep bad thought patterns in check

http://www.tvshowsondvd.net/graphics/news3/ClarissaExplainsItAll_S1.jpg xps to louis

ok i see, i had a real stemwinding rant queued up there

to me, obviously anyone who does not feel like the man-woman thing is doomed is to be commended and envied! by me.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:21 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

I am beginning to think that, in some ways, I choose to be a little intentionally naive when it comes to some of these things because if I really let myself over analyze it it would just be too depressing and overwhelming. Also, I have a deep dark riot grrl past ;-) during which I spent a lot of time being RAWR ANGRY and I think that at a certain point I realized that for me that was just too draining and not very productive for me on a personal level.

that seems totally right-on!

I'm not trying to contradict myself in earlier posts. I'm still 100% OK with the fact that some strangers may objectify me and think of me in a sexual way etc. I think that's normal and natural. What is not OK is the way that some people handle those thought and the resulting inappropriate conduct.

right of course otm etc!

So much to be angry about, so little time.

haw

Like you know what was awesome? That time when I was bartending and escorted a regular who was wasted to the point of puking home at which point he locked me in his house and demanded I take off my clothes and fuck him. NOT OK.

btw - he then tried to win my forgiveness by bribing me with pot so I had him banned from the bar.

gbx i think thinking about bad stuff is ok and healthy and normal too. i know i have read about a lot of bad stuff! it's not the particular bits of info that are the problem if you can handle them maturely *most* of the time, which is something you can control. that's what i meant.

arghhhhh enbb :(

that is quite a strong argument for the universal female assumption of non-lethal incapacitory weaponage xxxp

no, i know, i get that now harbl

xp :( erica, that is awful

that is quite a strong argument for the universal female assumption of non-lethal incapacitory weaponage xxxp

― a. cole, u thic (acoleuthic), Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:44 PM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you talk in fucken mad libs

i'm so sorry, Erica.

Yeah, I'd sort of forgotten about it. That was pretty bad. He kept saying how he thought I'd wanted to fuck him because I had taken him home while I tried to explain that I'd only wanted to make sure he got in the door OK because otherwise he'd have spent the night sleeping on a city bench which is really where I should have left him. Eh, in the end I got some weed and never had to see him again so it was't all that bad.

What did you do at the moment, though? Was he drunk enough that you could punch him in the throat?

erica I admire that you want to investigate why you feel the way you do. I think maybe what you and I were trying to get @ earlier (and forgive/slap me if I'm putting words in your mouth here) is that maybe it'd benefit laurel to undergo a similar self-analysis, namely, why she reacts so negatively to all this. those feelings are 100% legitimate of course, but when it's a constant thing bugging you it becomes deleterious imo and doesn't get you anywhere, so maybe there's something else going on

I shouldn't single out laurel here though, she's not the only one who feels that way

and ugh that story...that's awful

i am really okay with women having whatever reactions to the threat of sexual violence that is real in the world that they need to have to make them feel okay, you know?

I mean it was bad but, you know. I guess that's what I meant earlier about being willfully naive. I've had some pretty shitty stuff happen to me over the years yet still like to hope things aren't doomed in terms of male/female relations and view ppl like that guy as the minority while I know fully well that he might not be.

You seem like a nice enough, k3vin, but stfu.

guys can we not psychoanalyze other ilxors, plz? unseemly imo

xposts

i don't think you're naive at all, Erica.

lol "guys" whoops

You seem like a nice enough, k3vin, but stfu.

― Of course I want frosting. I'm a Scorpio. (kenan), Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:50 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Kevin should have at least had the courtesy to wonder if the guy was out of her league.

You, sir, are welcome to eat my ass any time you wish to.

alright yall ima just quit while I'm behind :)