HEALTHCARE THREAD

just want to continue sharing the bafflement of goole and shakey mo at dean & kox et al trying to scuttle the bill

well "trying" is a little strong, dudes are just commentators

yeah sorry not trying, expressing that it would be a good idea to do so

also kos not kox

pass this, but i predict hcr will be revisited w/in 3 presidential terms regardless. wrt "this or nothin for 30 years."

The latest ABC News/Washington Post poll found that support for the health care reform package, while never robust, is now at a low ebb and opposition has been steadily growing stronger in intensity.

For the first time, a majority of those surveyed disapproved of the president’s work on health care (53 percent) and oppose the health care reform package making its way through Congress (51 percent, compared to 44 percent approval).

That seven-point margin for opposition is its most to date -- indeed statistically significant for the first time -- and the differential in intensity of sentiment has grown since September.

is it wrong of me to have a completely opposite reading of these poll numbers - ie, the opposition is rising because the healthcare bill is progressively getting shittier and shittier, NOT because an increasing number of people oppose reform in and of itself?

yeah according to TPM the big increase is coming from liberal dissatisfied with the bill

which is something i hope the dems are getting out there RIGHT NOW and messaging on so that the GOP cant crow about how the bill is unamerican or whatever

Yup. The Dems will be punished next November because the public saw them waffling, not because the public endorses the status quo.

Chuck Todd writes on Twitter: "Most of the movement on the 'bad idea' comes from some of the president's core support groups, folks upset about lost public option." He also writes: "Still, large majorities of the president's core support groups believe his plan is a 'good idea,' but the margins have shrunk."

GOP is gonna do just that - "majority of Americans oppose this bill, Mr. President" press release writes itself

x-post

cant believe how much this bill is stressing me out

just what lieberman wanted

cant believe how much this bill is stressing me out

probably not as much as akm

well, i can believe how much its stressing akm out

really its how fucking irresponsible the senate is thats stressing me out, not that its surprising me necessarily, i just havent felt this disgusted in the american political process since 2003, or for that matter in the numerous & idiotic 'pundits' and opinion-having assholes

it is stressing me out but really only to a point, because, ultimately, fuck it, if we lose insurance then we get divorced so my wife can go on medicaid, plus, none of her doctors will refuse her treatment for an inability to pay. the worst that owuld happen would be...what? we don't pay our bills? who fucking cares? my credit gets ruined? well then we just won't buy a house, I really couldn't give a shit. as it is we have insurance and still owe upwards of 10k for this year of medical treatment alone, and we just informed the hospital that they can have fun trying to get this money since we don't have it. they said they'd let us know.

but you know, yeah, I'd rather this bill pass and they use it as a foundation for improvement. people who disagree with this want the sun and the moon.

it distresses me mostly because a Democratic president with Democratic majorities in both houses of congress, with huge public support, following on the heels of the most disastrous administration in history STILL could not pass a single-payer healthcare plan or even anything remotely resembling it. cue Kent Brockman: "I've said it before and I'll say it again, democracy just ... doesn't ... work"

and they think they're gonna pass an even more contentious climate change bill next year? yeah fucking right.

yeah it's the senate that is disappointing in this case, on the other hand, Dems only barely have a majority, and in fact, in reality, don't, because Leiberman is barely there for them. Give us a real Dem majority and this would have gone better.

just think: if we had a house of representatives with no senate, obama would have signed into law a bill with a public option a couple weeks ago

tbf there are a lot fewer loonies in the senate than there are in the House tho

key # is loonies per capita, tho

well i'm just glad that cunt lieberman got to be the belle of the ball one last time.

anyways, fuck these guys. i want to see the GOP RUINED. should i start campaigning for wingnut 'conservative party' candidates now?

GOP's gonna pick up seats - will be interesting if Reid gets voted out. He hasn't been a very effective Senate leader imho.

plus he's basically a holdover from the "let's appease Dubya" era

yeah he sucks.

short of raising LBJ from the dead im not sure who would make a more effective leader given the sad mix of crybabies and primadonnas us democratic party members have representing our interests in the greatest deliberative body in the world

chuck schumer?

Barbara Mikulski!

lol like joe would listen to barbara mikulski

Joe's gonna lose his reelection bid, I imagine

joes got jobs and directorships awaiting him i imagine

I'm sure Pfizer would love to have him

i have felt this disgusted in the american political process since at least 1984

really? do tell

For me, the end of Reconstruction.

Nelson has met three times in the past nine days with Obama. His Nebraska-based chief of staff, Tim Becker, spent the day in Washington in discussions with administration officials on details of recent negotiations between his boss and the president.

While Nelson is seeking stricter curbs on abortions in the insurance system the bill would establish, he also has raised issues in his home state that are unrelated to the health care legislation, according to an official with close ties to the senator.

O RLY. Too bad yr anti-choice amendment already got voted down you piece of shit

this is bummin me out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOe8zpHWgio&feature=player_embedded

left is pissed

and I am too. I don't think the bill should be killed per se, but unless the left threatens to abandon it the only people getting concessions are gonna be jackasses like Droopy and Nelson

and they think they're gonna pass an even more contentious climate change bill next year? yeah fucking right.

I think both bills will pass, and both will be weakened and sabotaged by zero GOP support and idiotic democrat "compromises" that they won't be nearly as effective as they can and should be. The difference is that weakened HRC will affect the lives if millions of Americans, while weakened climate change action will affect the lives of the whole goddamned world.

one thing that bugs is that going into this whole thing, my opinion was "one outcome that i definitely DONT want to happen is to have a mandate with no public option." thats medicare part d all over again, and will end up breaking the system down the road. plus i think it is very bad policy.

i mean, it was an outcome i specifically did not want, and now several scolding sites are all "ha u didnt know that could happen? why u play this game, u STUPID, scrub losers!" guys, i totally knew that insurers would want to make this happen. i specifically did not want this to happen. so pardon me, pass the fucker, but brother plz.

one outcome that i definitely DONT want to happen is to have a mandate with no public option

^this. i really thought the stars were aligned, not necessarily for a perfect - or even great - bill, but at least THIS wouldn't happen. ugh.

The ONLY way "the left" is going to have leverage with Dem give-the-store-away leaders is to show that they'll vote for (and contribute to) parties to the Dems' left. Deny it all you want, and watch let every major issue go down the drain like this one.

watch THEM let

yes, that strategy worked well when it gave us 8 years of the worst president of all time

yeah, it is all ralph nader's fault

supporting unelectable left wing candidates to hammer home the point that you dont like the healthcare bill is going to get you no health care reform at all, instead of partial health care reform