HEALTHCARE THREAD

You guys got onomatopoetic while I was at a two-hour meeting!

my man Al Franken tells Lieberman to shut the fuck up

The Corner is, predictably, outrated. They quote John McCain approvingly:

Rising to defend Lieberman he told Franken that in 20-plus years in the Senate, he’d never seen a member denied an extra minute or two of floor time.

“I don't know what's happening here in this body,” McCain said, “but I think it is wrong.

Well, did Lincoln Chafee ever oppose the GOP as shamelessly as Joe?

LOL then another senator got up and told McDementia that they'd curtailed someone - oooh - about two hours before.

“I don't know what's happeninghere in this body,” McCain said.

grassley's "republican position" that leads the latest issue of NEJM is pretty dumb

MoveOn.org is pushing for Bernie Sanders to drop his support and demand some version of the public option (good luck with that guys)

yeah, let's push for something that has even less of a chance of passing.

i 4 1 welcome our insurance overlords

good luck lolmerica

watching kuttner and taibbi on moyers last night, :(.

why do some folks who say this bill is not obama's fault because he doesn't have the real power to craft, promote, and pass legislation also argue that the bill MUST pass or else obama will have no chance to craft, promote and pass subsequent crucial reforms?

whos arguing that? my take is that congress should pass this bill so that in the future congress can improve on it. i dont know that obamas influence has anything to do with it, beyond quibbling about how much more he could have done to encourage the legislation.

that's my take too, but kuttner was big on the political optics/fallout for obama. he also said he's hopeful that obama will promote a more anti corporate/anti wall st agenda after the midterms. hope, change, obama's very new to this etc. taibbi was politely "why on earth do you think that based upon everything that you've seen"?

i do think that obama's influence was more important than you believe though. the parameters of the argument started in his office imo.

its on yall

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126123257035198659.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLETopStories

I like the way future congresses have "improved on" the USA PATRIOT Act

impossible to be happy now after the nelson compromise, sorry, max. like for real sorry. I try to buy into the whole "think of the positives, lives saved," etc., and but it still reads as: we're going to let the right continue their march toward undoing the gains of reproductive rights & basically hand the discourse over to them in exchange for getting the bill through. a terrible tradeoff and as I said earlier one that will haunt, not the party - because who cares - but women and families who believe in their right to reproductive choice.

i actually havent seen the specifics of the nelson compromise so im holding off on judgment--like i said on the other thread i agree with you about this issue

I know you do I'm just crying in my sleeve a little because I know people who gave lots of their lives & selves to the struggle for reproductive rights, who took real hits in their personal lives for it, it sucks to know that their experiences & battles don't count for much with the national party when it comes right down to it.

ill wait till i see exactly what was given up before i let the tears flow

but point taken

Then there's this:

Nelson and the Latest 'Compromise' [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

A little earlier, I posted on Twitter, asking what Cecile Richards and Barbara Boxer are getting in exchange for shutting up about language that is making Bill Nelson happy. They'll shut up, though, if it looks nothing like Stupak. And that's what I'm hearing from the Senate — that what Nelson's okaying is nothing like Stupak — which, frankly, Nelson warned us about in his press conference when he noted that some of his colleagues wouldn't agree with him. And so the takeaway this morning is that Nelson's committment to the most innocent human life has a price tag on it? A sickening, dismaying possibility.

bear in mind though that you are quoting an insane person so her words should be taken as completely meaningless

A sickening, dismaying possibility.

Unlike the so-called Stupak language in the House, Nelson's abortion language would not forbid people who receive subsidy assistance from the federal government from buying insurance policies that cover abortion. However, according to Nelson, the money that pays for each such policy will have to be separated into two pools--one that pays for the abortion coverage, and one for all other services.

Politico on what the compromise amounts to.

Nelson agreed to support the bill after Democrats strengthened restrictions on federal funding of abortion. In the bill, states can opt out from allowing plans to cover abortion in the insurance exchange. Also, enrollees in plans covering abortion pay separate checks – one for abortion, one for the rest of services.

should be branded the Scarlet Letter provision imo & is a lowdown dirty shame - I'd think there'd be right-to-privacy issues involved, too (if your plan is through work, anybody in payroll gets to see what you're buying - am I wrong on that?)

xpost

yeah i dont really understand the 'separate checks' thing

i guess its supposed to SHAME the harlots who are receiving legal & federally guaranteed medical procedures opposed by ben nelson

it affects plans paid by your employer?

it's to prevent people from buying the abortion coverage & to further ostracize people who believe in reproductive rights - standard aggressive fear tactics like the stuff they've been trying to pull in Oklahoma

it affects plans paid by your employer?

I don't know that is why I asked if I was wrong. if it doesn't, though, I would guess pressure on insurance companies to follow suit will be heavy from these people - this is a doctrinal victory for them, a big one. which though we already knew this - it's been clear for a long time that the support of anti-choice moderates is a very very appealing thing to the Democratic party, which would, I think, very much like to to shed itself of any description involving the term "pro-choice."

i think this is the rub w/ the segregated funds thing:

The amendment also requires that health plans that provide abortion services segregate the premiums from any federal subsidies into separate accounts so that federal funds don't pay for abortion services.

yeah, in theory it shouldn't affect them i think. in practice i don't know if this will change what companies offer to employers buying plans with private funds.

wait so does this two check business = if i don't plan on having abortions, i don't pay. or if i have some moral qualms about abortion, i don't pay. ???

basically does this mean i can opt out of taxes or w/e that fund the death penalty?

i know!!!!!! can i write my congressman and ask him if i can make sure federal funds aren't used to kill afghans now. those are adults though who cares.

i think the deal is that if you are receiving fed subsidies for yr covg, the two-checks thing means that none of the subsidized portion of your payment can go towards an abortion

basically does this mean i can opt out of taxes or w/e that fund the death penalty?

lol don't you know there's only one moral issue of any seriousness w/r/t federal funding, and it's abortion

this is infuriating

So Ben Nelson agrees kids can be killed for a few pieces of silver. Is his middle name Judas?
about 1 hour ago from TweetDeck

ewerickson
Erick Erickson

ugh jesus

literally, jesus

"kids"

Senators Boxer and Murray comment

John in Richmond otm

ScottM1207 apparently has some insider info on this population control scheme, too

"baby-murdering population control scheme" a weak redux of chuck norris's rhetorical muscle

john on mountain otm, this is bittersweet but :(

Did anyone link David Brooks' column from Friday? cuz some of it somehow made sense.

The amendment also requires that health plans that provide abortion services segregate the premiums from any federal subsidies into separate accounts so that federal funds don't pay for abortion services.

This calls to mind Bush's stem cell "compromise" where orgs getting Federal money for stem cell research had to quarantine that money from any research involving lines taken from human embryos. They still worked on those embryonic cells, but they had to make sure that like, they didn't use any Federal dollars for a light bulb or a set of pencils that would be used in the same room with them. Are we not men?????

my mom just totally shit a brick upon learning that i don't have insurance

'you are jeopardizing our retirement' etc

feeling a little like brazil re: logging now