antonioni

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Zabriskie struck me as thoroughly honorable and occasionally beautiful when I finally saw it, moreso than recent pseudo-Antonioni like that horrid Bruno Dumont 29 Palms.

I haven't seen the early stuff in eons.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 28 November 2005 22:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Where's the allusion to in The Passenger?

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Monday, 28 November 2005 23:22 (eighteen years ago) link

That was supposed to say the allusion to Back and Forth... (I did the symbol thing but I guess it read as HTML code).

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Monday, 28 November 2005 23:37 (eighteen years ago) link

to my mind it's the scene where schneider and nicholson are at some kind of outdoor cafe (?) having a conversation, and the camera makes a few very abrupt, violent pans left and right and then left again (IIRC) that nominally follow the cars that are passing on the highway in the distant background. essentially the camera becomes loosed from its function of observing the narrative (or even commenting on it expresisvely), which happens a lot in antonioni in various ways but rarely so flagrantly (and ridiculously, if i can use that word non-judgementally).

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 28 November 2005 23:49 (eighteen years ago) link

ah shit good point. here is a slightly overheated thing i wrote about the film's a/g positioning when it was still unavailable in the uk ('cept on my shitty vhs). i got the 'wavelength' ref tho.

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 10:12 (eighteen years ago) link

You can see the camera operator reflected in the french window.

Forgot to look for this. I did notice the first time Jack says "What the fuck are you doing with me?" (under the tree), it's clearly dubbed as his lips aren't moving, which suggests it was done to make the line resonate in the last hotel scene.

Second time I'd seen The Passenger (first since mid to late '80s); hadn't remembered hardly anything but the famed next-to-last shot ... I do think it stands with Blowup at a minimum; i'll probably work my way backwardish through his oeuvre now. Nicholson's probably never given a more somber and natural performance, even in his '69-75 Arthouse Bogart run (which this capped). I though Maria Schneider was speaking English phonetically, but her movements seem similarly stilted (when she puts her hand on Jack's shoulder, elbow stiff).

My brain was asleep early on -- what was Jack burning in his yard in the flashback, besides tree limbs, if anything?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 December 2005 15:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Wasn't he burning the remnants of his own identity? But I haven't seen it in a long time so I don't know.

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 5 December 2005 15:18 (eighteen years ago) link

No, it was a flashback with his wife yelling at him from the window, so he hadn't made the switch yet.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 December 2005 15:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe he was just WISHING he could destroy his identity while he was burning the tree trunks

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 5 December 2005 15:22 (eighteen years ago) link

saw "the passenger" friday, so great.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 5 December 2005 15:24 (eighteen years ago) link

he was burning the part of the script that explains what he was burning.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Here's a trivia question for y'all which maybe everybody knows these days but used to kind of a secret: What film was Maria Schneider cast in and then fired from shortly after filming began, inspiring a very unique casting decision to replace her?

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:31 (eighteen years ago) link

'taxi driver'

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:33 (eighteen years ago) link

ok, 'obscure object of my desire'

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:34 (eighteen years ago) link

You can see the camera operator reflected in the french window. The man must be a brute.

I thought that was the reflection of the assassain.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 5 December 2005 18:10 (eighteen years ago) link

it is.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 5 December 2005 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Wonder what 7 minutes were cut for the US release in '75. I don't remember the scene of Mrs Locke watching the execution footage, but that doesn't mean anything.

I see Ebert upgraded the pan from his original review, so he is getting smarter (in some cases).

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 December 2005 20:15 (eighteen years ago) link

I didnt think much of it during my intiial screening 11 years ago; maybe it was the quality of the print; maybe it was my boredom with late Antonioni; maybe because I hate Blow-Up?

Still, I wanna see it again.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 5 December 2005 20:55 (eighteen years ago) link

it's so much better than "blow up."

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 5 December 2005 20:58 (eighteen years ago) link

ebert's review was interesting. he allows himself not to interpret the oblique bits in the film, which is something he normally likes to do (saying the silences in a film are emblematic of particular traits of the characters, or of an overall "theme" or message). in fact he makes a point of saying that antonioni films aren't really there to interpret, which certainly goes against the historical record, insofar as 'l'avventura' and 'blow-up' have been endlessly interpreted. perhaps antonioni just makes his films so obviously oblique and open to interpretation that it makes the exercise of interpretation boring, too obvious a move.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 5 December 2005 21:10 (eighteen years ago) link

exercise of interpretation boring = movie boring, in my book

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 5 December 2005 21:12 (eighteen years ago) link

it's not a boring movie.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 5 December 2005 21:14 (eighteen years ago) link

it's okay if it is, there are a lot of "boring" movies -- in both senses, i.e. slow, not much happening and also ones that are just THERE and require no thought-bones -- that i like!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 5 December 2005 21:16 (eighteen years ago) link

films so obviously oblique and open to interpretation that it makes the exercise of interpretation boring

Tracer Hand otm. The filmmaker can't expect us to do his work for him PLUS give us the most somnolent raw materials.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 5 December 2005 21:16 (eighteen years ago) link

"the passenger" didn't seem very oblique to me.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 5 December 2005 21:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Nor to the woman sitting next to me at the Sunshine when she shouted "HE'S DEAD!"

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 December 2005 21:35 (eighteen years ago) link

the film is partly 'about' that, the difficulty of interpretation being flipside to the instability of identity -- or something. it isn't a boring film, and imo it's one his the antmeister's less oblique films. the more i see them the less oblique they feel -- 'l'eclisse' is even quite plotty. i find the antonioni style, the disjunct of camera and action, exciting.

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 5 December 2005 21:38 (eighteen years ago) link

it's very oblique in terms of character psychology. we don't know why nicholson's character does what he does, and key information about the identity he's assumed and his nominal "purpose" is not provided. the schneider character is a total blank in terms of psychology--she doesn't even have a name, a backstory, anything. we can choose to fill in such blanks in many ways (or to interpret the blanks as having some greater metaphysical, political, etc. meaning) but the fact that the blanks are flaunted so obviously perhaps makes such activity seem a bit pointless, as far as a longtime critic is concerned.

i don't think it's a boring film, and i also don't tend to try to remake "boring" into a superlative, a positive quality. certain films may displaced my interest from the sort of things you ususally focus on in films (character psychology/goals, etc.) onto other things (milieu, intricacies of visual and sound design) but that doesn't make them boring, just compelling in different ways from the norm.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 5 December 2005 22:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Tracer Hand didn't say it was boring, he said it was "boring," which seems to fit what you just defined as "compelling in different ways." Boring to Morbius-baiters, maybe, but "boring" to the rest of us.

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 5 December 2005 22:15 (eighteen years ago) link

"ok"

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 5 December 2005 22:21 (eighteen years ago) link

True story: Michael R03mer once told an old roommate of mine who took his class that (insert stagy German accent here): "R___, a boring story about a boring thing told boringly is BORING!"

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 5 December 2005 22:30 (eighteen years ago) link

it's very oblique in terms of character psychology. we don't know why nicholson's character does what he does, and key information about the identity he's assumed and his nominal "purpose" is not provided.

ok, well i'm not sure what needs to be filled in as to why he "does what he does." it's pretty clear at the beginning that he's just had it with his assignment, and his life. as for the identity he assumes, if everything was revealed as or during he assumed it, it'd be an incredibly boring movie. most (tho not all) about the dead guy is revealed to the viewer in the same way that nicholson's character receives it, and thus, there's a story (a thriller, even).

the schneider character is a total blank in terms of psychology--she doesn't even have a name, a backstory, anything.

not entirely, she claims she's an architecture student. but it isn't really that important, she's basically the "mysterious female" type as in most thrillers/mysteries.

we can choose to fill in such blanks in many ways (or to interpret the blanks as having some greater metaphysical, political, etc. meaning) but the fact that the blanks are flaunted so obviously perhaps makes such activity seem a bit pointless, as far as a longtime critic is concerned.

there isn't much to "interpret," there's a lot there in the film. i think if antonioni had spelled out things more, it'd be a much weaker movie.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 5 December 2005 23:05 (eighteen years ago) link

stencil otm. If we knew more about his past existence it would somehow give him more of an option to go back to it.

k/l (Ken L), Monday, 5 December 2005 23:15 (eighteen years ago) link

and that contributes to the "mystery" aspect, as more of his past life is revealed once his wife becomes a character.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 5 December 2005 23:47 (eighteen years ago) link

i wasn't making a subjective evaluation of the film so much as describing what i meant by "oblique"--i'm not saying the obliquenss is a good or bad thing, or that the the film should or should not be interpreted.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 00:35 (eighteen years ago) link

(I'm gonna get you for that "ok," amateurist)

k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 05:05 (eighteen years ago) link

oh wow ... the Antonioni thread got revived! a week ago! only my favorite director. shows how little I look at ILE

anyway, yeah, Passenger making the rounds finally. Jack finally let it loose again .. Saw it two weeks ago, after only seeing it previously on VHS .. absolutely blown away. so glad to finally see this sucker on the big screen (only have "I Vinti", "Identification of a Woman" and the China documentary left to see before I die!!) Started re-reading the Rohdie bfi book. too late right now to read this thread .. but .. The Passenger, god yes

Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 06:45 (eighteen years ago) link

a website too!

http://www.sonyclassics.com/thepassenger/index_content.html

Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 06:46 (eighteen years ago) link

I never did see that "Eye to Eye" thing either, dammit..

Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 06:49 (eighteen years ago) link

hstencil otm. it's truw that you get less backstory for either lead than is usual, but it's only a matter of degree -- lots of thriller heroes are almost as sketchy, but usually you don't dwell on it. how much do we know about cary grant in 'nnw'?

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 09:15 (eighteen years ago) link

his motivations are never really left in doubt

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 10:31 (eighteen years ago) link

two months pass...

I just watched his early '60s trilogy in a 10-day period (hadn't seen L'Avventura and La Notte in many years, and L'Eclisse ever that I can recall). L'Eclisse may be my favorite (att Alex: ALAIN DELON), particularly because of the closing sequence that some US exhibitors lopped off because of its 'irrelevance.' The dread continues to build as Vitti and Delon clown and stare at (and away from) each other ... while the last scene in L'Avventura does something similar with Vitti and Gabriele Ferzetti, the last half sometimes feel like marking time, esp when you know Lea Massari ain't coming back. (Occasionally he'll hit the DECADENCE too hard, like Vitti's friend throwing herself at a boy in L'Avventura or Jeanne Moreau's wanderings through Milan in La Notte.)

Also, Jack Nicholson reading two articles by Antonioni on L'Avventura's DVD is a hoot, esp the one that amounts to "A thinking actor is my enemy." (Jack haw-haws this during brief Passenger reminiscences.)


Dave Kehr in the NY Times:

Eros

This three-part film on sexual themes with segments by Wong Kar-wai, Steven Soderbergh and Michelangelo Antonioni received mixed reviews when it was released theatrically last April, but its DVD release is remarkable for the one great extra it contains: "Michelangelo Eye to Eye," a 19-minute short directed by Mr. Antonioni and included here out of the sheer goodness of Warner Home Video's heart.

Largely silent, with the exception of some choral music by Palestrina that rises slowly during the film's last five minutes, "Eye to Eye" depicts the 93-year-old Italian filmmaker (effectively rendered mute by a stroke in 1985) as he pays a visit to a work by another Michelangelo: the sculptor's marble statue of Moses, created for the tomb of Pope Julius II. No words are pronounced, and none need to be as Mr. Antonioni's slowly moving camera caresses the curves and textures of the monumental artwork while it closes in on his own aging, almost translucent flesh. Crosscutting between his own clouded eyes and the frozen, eternal regard of the sculpture, the director establishes a dialogue across time. The artist ages; the art does not. This wise, reverberating piece contains unspoken volumes. $27.98, R.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 20:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Identificacion di Una Donna is really bad and cheesy. The John Foxx soundtrack doesn't help.

The Brainwasher (Twilight), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link

two months pass...
I'm watching The Passenger on DVD. Full thoughts later. I must give it up to Jack Nicholson's audio commentary: a model of intelligence and concision (stamina too, as it sounds like he's got strep throat). He knows when to shut up and let us watch the narrative and shows real insight into Antonioni's methods.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 27 April 2006 15:32 (eighteen years ago) link

cannae wait to get this.

25 yr old undercover cop (Enrique), Thursday, 27 April 2006 18:04 (eighteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
Major retro upcoming at BAM NYC, with a restored print of Red Desert:

http://bam.org/film/series.aspx?id=83

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 14:38 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
any besides me & Ian want to see Red Desert Sun night? I'd prefer 7 if I can leave Feist early.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 23 June 2006 19:24 (seventeen years ago) link

oops, missed this. i would have gone.

sleep (sleep), Friday, 23 June 2006 23:24 (seventeen years ago) link

oops, misread. i can't make it though.

sleep (sleep), Friday, 23 June 2006 23:26 (seventeen years ago) link

RD color print was stunning. Moreso than in his other films, tho, it's too bad Monica Vitti wasn't a better actress.

I was kind of amazed that BAM sold out the big theater at 7 on a Sunday, and nearly did at 9:30.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 26 June 2006 13:01 (seventeen years ago) link


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