― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 05:51 (twenty years ago) link
Race oppression is not a subset of gender oppression, because there are black people who are not women.
Gender oppression is not a subset of race oppression, because there are women who are not black.
Can someone explain this?
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 05:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 05:54 (twenty years ago) link
I wanna be more like Trayce.
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 05:55 (twenty years ago) link
Side note - orbit, do you know where there archives of early grrrl zines on the web?
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 05:57 (twenty years ago) link
― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 05:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 05:59 (twenty years ago) link
Hi! This is the Riot Grrrl Review website!
This site is always kind of fucked up, full of typos, and I post the reviewslate. I am either too busy or too lazy to fix it. This is how it is. Deal.
To see the zine reviews from #2, go here.To see the zine reviews from #3, go here.To see the zine reviews from #4, go here.To see the music reviews, go here.#1 is out of print, sorry. It's way old, anyway.
Riot Grrrl Review has been on hiatus for a year now, but I'm getting backinto the swing of things. I am going to be in Chicago during May and Juneand will be traveling around in July. #5 has been in the works; I work on itwhen my schedule/life permits. Thanks for your patience.
Please send me your zines, music, comics, etc. for review, and I will reviewthem. For those of you unfamiliar with my reviewing policy, Riot GrrrlReview is for women and girls. Boys can send their zines for consideration,and I will review what I feel is relevent and list what I like if I don'tsee much relevence. I know this is somewhat of a controversial policy.Suggestions are welcome, but I still do things at my discretion. If you sendmaterial for review, make sure your address and price is on the cover. Sendit to me at Kristy Chan, USF 30334, 4202 E. Fowler Ave., Tampa, FL33620-3033. The old Fort Myers address is NOT good. I live in Tampa now andam trying to get everyone to start using the Tampa box.
Classifieds and project listings are coming one day. And so are links that Iowe to all the wonderful webgirls that have linked my site to theirs. I amreally grateful and no one would come here if it wasn't for them, and towhoever got me listed in Yahoo! where my site comes up
first
when you type in "riot grrrl", THANK YOU!
Oh yeah, I'm actually doing a thank you list here... Thanks in random orderto Mimi Ilano, Matt Wobensmith, Mimi Nguyen, Ericka Bailie, Lauren Martin,Seth Bogus, Christina Varner, Theresa Mitten, Sarah Gion, Ocean Capewell,Sarah C. in England, Tamra of Lucid Nation, Ceci Moss, Kelli Williams,Bianca Ortiz, Laurie Chan, Mike Mitchell, Allison Dority, John Paree, JenWolfe, Asian Takeover boys and girls, Barbie girls, and anyone I forgot -I'm sorry my memory is so crappy.
Okay, the contest is over. I will announce the winner when I get my shittogether, and give that person their prize, a bag of candy. If you actuallygive a shit, the songs are "Whip It" by Devo, "True Colors" by Cyndi Lauper,the "Bewitched" theme song, "James Bond" theme song, "Violet" by Hole, andum. I can't think of the rest right now. MIDIs are really dumb, but I lovethem, so I'm not taking them off!
Oh yeah, I guess I should plug my shit.. I have a personal zine calledTennis and Violins. I wrote it last winter when I was really depressed alot.Some people love it and some people think it's annoying. It has journalentries, some opinions and stories about racism, classism, being queer, um..also interviews with Ceci Moss and Matt Outpunk. You can get it in the mailfrom me for a few stamps or money or a letter. Whatever you can afford. Iguess it costs me between 65 cents to $1 to make and send each one. Don'teven ask if you can read it on the web or in email because it won't happen.Tennis and Violins #2 is going to be a split with Suburbia zine by Ceci.It's going to be 100 pages. My half has travel stories, art/photos, Barbiestories, an interview with Rachel Carns (the Need, Kicking Giant), and lotsof other stuff. Keep your eyes open for that. I also did a zine called WildHoney Pie when I was in high school and middle school. #9 has an interviewwith Allison Wolfe (Bratmobile), artsy stuff, info, its kind of random, butall of it is good reading, I think. It costs $1. #10 is giant, like fullsize, a zillion pages. It's $2, and it has interviews with Mark Robinson(Unrest), Larry Livermore (Lookout!), Wynona Riders (Berkeley punk),Pietasters (D.C. ska. They're kind of dumb, oh well.), and Dick Lucas (thesinger from Subhumans). Also a shitload of articles and personal writing.Seth from Puberty Strike likes it!
I also want to encourage you to contribute to these projects I am workingon...ASIAN TAKEOVER - I am compiling a zine by Asian people about racism,identity, history, assimilation, etc. This is real. I am going to put thisout. I have already gotten a substantial amount of material, but you cansend stuff in while I'm too busy to print this sucker. Send me your art,photos, text, poetry, life story.100 BARBIE GIRLS CAN'T BE WRONG! - Answer this question - How did you playwith your Barbie dolls?
Read about me and my many obsessions.Mimi does this ace site with Asian/Pacific Islander American feministresources, her solid critiques of punk, material she reads, etc. This is notsomething you want to miss.Ericka does Pander zine distro and the ever-amazing Power Candy zine, abouther life, mental illness, all sorts of things. Both very cool projects.Mike is a friend of mine. His page is about punk and stuff.Russell has a site about comics, Bis, and teen DIY projects.Sign My Guestbook but keep in mind that I just check it for comments, and ifyou want a reply, I recommend e-mailing me, instead. This is also a goodplace to plug your shit or start dialogue until I figure out how to make amessage board or something like that, if that's what you want to do.View My Guestbooke-mail meYou are visitor number [Image] since Feb. 27, 1997. Wow!
anti©opyright 1998
― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:01 (twenty years ago) link
Ironically, I have been known to be more intimidated by other women, but thats more to do with being bullied by them in school, and betrayed by female friends later in life. But I'm over all that now anyway.
― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:02 (twenty years ago) link
Well I didn't have a Ken doll, they had to make do SOMEhow!
― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:07 (twenty years ago) link
point being it's more complex than you were giving it credit for, that's all/
― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:08 (twenty years ago) link
In what way is it more complex? You can't leave a statement like that hanging unqualified.
― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:18 (twenty years ago) link
Many variants of radical feminism however, strive towards what is called "equalism", meaning different groups plat an equal part on decisionmaking and self-determination. The emphasis is on dialog between and among different interest groups to arrive at a concensus. It's not always a comfortable process, but what is being sought is a world that is constructed to take the needs of all kinds of people into account.
― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:23 (twenty years ago) link
Feminism has a part to play where gender inequality is significant, but in western societies we are past that stage in our development. Yes some inequalities remain but society is generally aware and concerns itself with eradicating these inequalities. Gender inequality and even racial inequalities are far less significant than class and economic inequalities. Scoop everyone up from the bottom, and if there are more disadvantaged women, or blacks or whatever then you will scoop up more women blacks or whatever.
In striving foe equality why restrict your group to 50% of the population, smells like sexism to me.
― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:30 (twenty years ago) link
I do disagree with you statement that experiences across gender are common. They are not. You never got your first period, You never had a perv grab your tits. You never had to wonder was that guy looking at your chest or at you. Experiences are different, When I walk into a room and there is a porn mag on the table it affects me differently from how it affects you because I am female and have grown up in a sexist society. I could go on for pages, but the experience of growing up a boy is very different from growing up a girl, This is old territory, its been covered a million times, and no one disputes it any more. I am not trying to be dismissive, and after I've had some sleep I could post a reading list or something and we could pick up the conversation later if you are interested.
― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:51 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 06:54 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 07:43 (twenty years ago) link
In some cases, in fact, they've worsened social attitudes. I can only really speak for the UK educational system, but there's a big problem there with the fact that girls tend to do better than boys in Key Stage SATs, GCSEs, and A-Levels (although at University there's, I believe, a reversal). There are scads of measures in place to increase boys' attainment, but meanwhile many working-class young men aren't getting the best jobs they potentially could have because women are often better qualified. Which leads to more resentment, and more disenfranchisement of working-class males, and that's surely counter-productive.
― cis (cis), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 08:11 (twenty years ago) link
I've got some stuff to do today but I will get back to this point later.
― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 08:17 (twenty years ago) link
(x-post)
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 08:26 (twenty years ago) link
I’ll give an example of ‘restrict groups by gender’ (though I don’t know if it’s the sort of thing Ed was talking about).This weekend I’m going to Ladyfest Manchester and one of the workshops I’d really like to go to, in fact the only one I really want to go to is a drumming workshop which I’m banned from because I’m not a girl! I’m semi-furious, I pay exactly the same as everyone who can go.
I think they want to keep out men cause they think they might make it intimidating for the women, but I’m easily intimidated too. I can kind of see where they’re coming from but I wanna go!*throws rattle*.
Practically, what should I do? Is there anything I can do?
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 08:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 08:39 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 08:41 (twenty years ago) link
I think experiences are broadly common though there are differences.I never got my first period but I did have a first wet dream; I never had a ‘perv’ grab my tits but I did have a (female) ‘perv’ grab my bottom; I never wondered was a guy looking at my chest (which would be part of me) but I’ve wondered was someone looking at my puppy fat.
When I walk into a room and see a porn mag on a table it effect me different to how it effects you because we are different PEOPLE, not because we are different sexes/genders. I’m interested in porn mags than most men I know. I know several women who really do like porn.
How do you know the experience of growing up a boy is so different to your own experience? When did YOU grow up a boy?
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 08:42 (twenty years ago) link
-- Andrew Thames (cleanbridge...), September 2nd, 2003.------------------------------------------------------------------------
GRRRRR!!!Anyway, I’m only going so I can cure me some Lesbians!
Have you not learned anything from sitcoms, mei?
-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...), September 2nd, 2003.
What, you mean I should dress up as a woman and sneak in?Hmmm. That might help me with the lesbians too...
(Humour Alert – I AM JOKING)
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 08:47 (twenty years ago) link
Meant to say I'm LESS interested in porn mags than most men.
I'm not saying I don't like pornography at all, but the realy artificial stuff I've seen in mags, with it's participants obviously not enjoying it, isn't a big turn on.
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 08:50 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 08:58 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Tuesday, 2 September 2003 09:00 (twenty years ago) link
To respond to the porn question, I'm not at all uncomfortable about porn personally, except when it appears unwanted around say, the parents or at work or something, but hell, I have been known to look at porn and enjoy it! FWIW.
― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 09:14 (twenty years ago) link
ed do you think legislating against racial and gender inequality actually works or something?
In striving foe equality why restrict your group to 50% of the population, smells like sexism to me
who is doing that? when women say WE WANT EQUALITY, why is it often read into as "we want equality but not for men"? if men feel oppressed, shouldn't they organise their own shit, like women have had to? most feminists want equality for men and women, thats what equality means!
also, if you think class oppression is more crucial in western society than racial or gender oppression, i can only think you have your head in the sand. NB class oppression IS important but i think your prioritizing of some oppressions against others is very monofocussed.
― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 11:36 (twenty years ago) link
although i was taught the open chords from a male, i can definitely attest to the comfort of having no men around when i learned to play guitar. i felt less judged. there are still a lot of assumptions about women playing instruments which circulate, to this very day when i go to the rock shop and ask for a guitar string the male staff ALWAYS assume i mean an acoustic string...
― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 11:48 (twenty years ago) link
Maybe I didn't read this thread correctly...
― cybele (cybele), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 12:33 (twenty years ago) link
― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 12:40 (twenty years ago) link
― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 12:53 (twenty years ago) link
But I'm not and I've not hidden it, I thought I mentioned it up above somewhere and if not it's definitely on another thread from the last few days and I've said it before on ILM/ILE.
I think I probably fit the male stereotype less than most men.
The reasons that TLML gives for me being barred from the drumming workshop are exactly those I imagined, and they are really understandable, which is why I'm not really angry at being barred. I can totally see their point of view.
But many men, including me feel harassed by male musicians while learning or practising. I can play the drums a bit already (and guitar, bass etc) but I've never been taught by anyone. That's partially because I'd be intimidating.I also find it very hard to go into a music shop and try out an instrument or ask for advice, I get the feeling the ppl in there would be looking down their nose ar me. I hate the thought of picking up a guitar and them listening to what I was playing - eeek!Most ppl just play some rubbish metal riff to try and impress and that is totally not me.
I think maybe the confusion isn't helped by my name. I'm Welsh and my name is Meirion (which is in my email adress) but no one can say that properly, including me, so everyone just calls me Mei.
TLML - you should go in and straight away say:"I'd like a single 52 please. Steel core with brass/nickel. Round wound, bullet end."See what they say then. They probably won't even know what all of that means.
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:10 (twenty years ago) link
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:12 (twenty years ago) link
"I'd like a single 52 please. Steel core with brass/nickel. Round wound, bullet end."
haha i should probably find out what all that means before i test it out!
― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:20 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:47 (twenty years ago) link
― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:52 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:55 (twenty years ago) link
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:56 (twenty years ago) link
― H (Heruy), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 14:01 (twenty years ago) link