Tiger Woods car/life crash

& i think his situation is special not only because he's tiger but because how egregious & insane & uncaring it was -- no one really remembers or cares that kobe was accused of rape & had to admit to being an adulterer, because it's something that happened once and me manned up & faced the music about it -- for tiger to be all LEAVE ME ALONE is fucking bullshit cuz a. he's trying to have his cake and eat it too b. if he would've just addressed shit way earlier, the thing would've blown over already

afaik, woods never said "i'm faithful to my wife, unlike your other sports heros, so follow me, not them." his clean image, it seems to me, is more a function of the way golf portrays itself (i can't recall many other golfers in scandelous situations).

as far as bryant, i'm not sure what you mean. he couldn't avoid the issue because he was being prosecuted for rape. he denied it, fought it and moved on. i don't see that as equivalent to voluntarily "manning-up and facing the music."

btw, even if woods did try to have his cake and eat it too, i'd still say he doesn't owe the public an apology. cheating on your spouse can be an incredibly painful, embarrasing situation for the victim. i don't think it's very fair to woods' wife to insist that he make public apologies for such private failings, because such a forced apology might deepen the pain for, and/or have a damaging impact on, woods' wife and family -- the only people who have a real stake in this situation.

my having spent $10.00 dollars on a woods-endorsed product gives me an infinitesimally tiny stake in the genuineness of woods' clean-living image.

kobe had a press conference where he answered actual questions and showed emotion & stuff -- and of course tiger didn't explicitly say "i'm faithful to my wife, unlike your other sports heros, so follow me, not them," but this is how he portrayed himself & the public had feelings & money invested in him because of the way he allowed himself to be characterized & marketed by people at IMG or by himself or whatever. he was different, he wanted to be different, he always thought he was different and he made a ton of money off of that. when you allow the public to think of you that way, you better be able to hold up your end of the bargain, because you are not some innocent bystander who is along for the ride.

& anyway, his income comes from the public, whether directly or not. people paid to see him golf, they paid to buy the things that he endorsed. the public made him a billionaire, plain and simple. and when it is revealed that he did what he did, i think the least he can do is answer some fucking questions and not barricade himself behind a prepared statement.

i don't think it's very fair to woods' wife to insist that he make public apologies for such private failings, because such a forced apology might deepen the pain for, and/or have a damaging impact on, woods' wife and family -- the only people who have a real stake in this situation.

― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:44 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

uh i'm sorry but if you marry tiger fucking woods when he is one of the most famous humans on the planet, this is what comes with the territory. your life is no longer private. this is what you chose by marrying the man. i have little sympathy for this.

if he didn't want intrusion in his life by the public he should've been like barry sanders or some shit and taken the earnings from his sport & kept a low profile & not cheated on his wife with prostitutes and porn stars

i sorta do and don't agree with you. yes, he made a huge amount of money out of his status as a modern version of the all-american icon, but this status was not really one he created for himself, rather imposed upon him. apart from by being good looking, non-white and exceptionally good at golf, all he did was accept this imposition for the cash rewards it brought. Tiger Woods as flawless icon was always a fantasy that you/we bought into; to anyone who is that much of a sucker, maybe he does owe you an apology for shattering the myth in such a spectacular way but maybe it should just be a lesson to stop believing the bullshit that these pr companies sell you.

that in itself may be bullshit. i'm quite drunk.

i don't think i have any vested interest whatsoever in anyone simply because i'm persuaded to buy a product because they endorse it. i think that expectation is unreasonable. and it can have damaging consequences for the real stakeholders. say woods' wife told him that she's incredibly angry but still sorting out her feelings, and for the sake of her and their children, she asked woods to not make public statements about the situation. you think that woods should go make a public apology anyway because he's made money endorsing products based on his "clean" image?

also maybe she married him because she loved him, and would have done so if he wasn't a superstar. you think she forfeits all the normal privacies of married life because she had the misfortune to fall in love with a famous athelete?

there have been plenty of very rich & very successful sports stars who don't end up in tiger's position -- it's not that hard, i really have no sympathy for him in this situation -- it's not like his kid has cancer and the paparazzi is repelling down hospital buildings to get a photo of the kid on his deathbed

i'm reserving most of my sympathies for his wife and family. nevertheless, i do not see the connection between his income, my having contributed a tiny percentage toward it, and him owing me -- or the "public" -- some sort of duty. president nixon and bush owed the public an apology, tiger woods doesn't.

I've followed Tiger fairly closely since he won his first Masters--he single-handedly rekindled my interest in golf for the first time since the mid-70s--and the idea that he was a moral stalwart has never had a thing to do with it. (The fact that he was black--the sheer anomaly of a black player dominating the whitest of all sports--absolutely, that initially had a lot to do with it.) Tiger the moral stalwart was a fabrication of his sponsors; he didn't discourage it, and he took them for every penny he could get out said image, but, unless I missed something, I just don't recall him pandering to it (hence the frequent flashes of Tommy Bolt-like temper on the course; he never pretended to be Steve Garvey). (Even though it turns out he is Steve Garvey...I digress.) Any adult who feels terribly let down because he's been out there fucking anything that moves, I just don't get it.

for one, by answering questions from the press -- which btw if there was a question that totally crossed the line in his mind he could've said "i'm not answering that or no comment" -- i don't see how he's protecting his wife or his children. maybe, you know, he shouldn't have cheated on his wife with 30 women, if he was worried about his wife & his kids.

& as far as elin yes, i think there are many privacies you forfeit when you marry someone of his stature, and these things are quite clear.

Any adult beyond those who know him personally, I should say, his wife above all else, obviously.

& you know, they're trying to play the public for fools. i feel bad for her because of what he did, but by the same token, it's disrespectful & insulting for them to say, for instance, that elin was trying to valiantly save tiger from death by bashing out the windows of his car with a golf club. no one believes that shit, and i think it would go a long way to getting people to back off -- which is what they so desperately crave -- if they, idk, just admitted to the shit that people already know happened anyway.

i disagree completely (tho i understand and respect your view). i think we've not likely to make much headway beyond this point.

i hate golf as a sport. not enough violence.

america is a sympathetic country & it's one that loves its redemptive stories, but no one likes to be explicitly lied to, which is what they're doing

the whole thing is just... there's such an obvious & simple gameplan when you're a public figure for being able to turn something like this in your favor, and the way that they've handled this has been so spectacularly bad & misjudged that it's fascinating

daniel otm & i'd much rather see tiger display contempt for "the public" and the sports media than pander to them

i guess i just don't see how telling the truth is something that is so painful & intrusive & horrible for tiger

if he had let the police interview him & then come out a week before the crash and said "the police account of what happened at my house on thanksgiving night is true. elin and i are not perfect, and i am not perfect. i apologize to her and those around the world that i have let down. elin and i will work in private to restore our marriage, and we ask that you respect our privacy moving forward. i will now take questions" and answered questions, the whole thing would've been over with long ago, and i don't think his wife or kids would've been traumatized by the experience of him admitting to known facts in public, i just don't.

a week after the crash obv

& showing contempt for the press & public is some bullshit -- it's only his fault that he's in this situation and the handled it as poorly as he did

no one is asking for like a documentary of his sex addiction therapy -- telling the truth to the public isn't some horrible, traumatic thing to have to do

i honestly don't buy the idea that he doesn't owe the public an apology -- the man made hundreds of million dollars off endorsements that he secured -- and "we" paid for -- because he presented himself as a moral stalwart, a consummate role model who was an anecdote to the allen iversons & alex rodriguezes of sports -- and for it to be revealed that he cheated on his wife with likely hundreds of women is a pretty big deal imo, so i do think he owes us something

― J0rdan S., Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:30 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

such bullshit

telling the truth to the public isn't some horrible, traumatic thing to have to do

no? it isn't? plz elaborate

if he had let the police interview him & then come out a week after the crash and said "the police account of what happened at my house on thanksgiving night is true. elin and i are not perfect, and i am not perfect. i apologize to her and those around the world that i have let down. elin and i will work in private to restore our marriage, and we ask that you respect our privacy moving forward. i will now take questions" and answered questions, the whole thing would've been over with long ago, and i don't think his wife or kids would've been traumatized by the experience of him admitting to known facts in public, i just don't.

yall are acting like telling some semblance of the truth is climbing mount everest

yeah, still don't think he should come out and "have to" do anything just because ppl buy fucking golf clubs and think he's a real swell dude. i mean, i understand that his sponsors or the PGA might want him to do that to save face or w/e, but it's not all a thing that a normal person should have to do.

yeah I don't buy this 'tiger owes us an apology because his face appears on a soda bottle' argument

i think a simple apology is a very little thing to expect from someone of his stature

jordan wtf is "we ask that you respect our privacy moving forward. i will now take questions"? that's kinda contradictory?

the point is that tiger is his own person, he doesn't have to tell all 8 billion people in the world everything about his life because...it's probably embarassing to him?

& showing contempt for the press & public is some bullshit -- it's only his fault that he's in this situation and the handled it as poorly as he did

― J0rdan S., Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:55 PM (Yesterday)

my point again would be lol @ these people who built him up so high and now are devastated that he is a human being.

the point is that tiger is his own person, he doesn't have to tell all 8 billion people in the world everything about his life because...it's probably embarassing to him?

― idgi, mon (k3vin k.), Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:09 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark

it's one thing to not tell 8 billion people in the world everything about your life, it's another to, as the saying goes, piss on our faces and tell us it's rain

jordan wtf is "we ask that you respect our privacy moving forward. i will now take questions"? that's kinda contradictory?

clearly i mean moving forward from this hypothetical press conference that happened a week after his accident

i think a simple apology is a very little thing to expect from someone of his stature

― J0rdan S., Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:08 AM (1 minute ago)

he didn't cheat on us! he didn't break any laws! he didn't even cheat in golf! he doesn't owe me an apology

my point again would be lol @ these people who built him up so high and now are devastated that he is a human being.

― idgi, mon (k3vin k.), Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:09 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark

yes lol @ people who admire sports figures, what retarded, gullible people

the only persons who should have any leverage on what tiger does are his wife and family. if he should decide to use his massive fortune to build a rocketship to the moon and go and live the rest of his life there, it's his choice imo.

jordan i'm saying "we ask that you respect out privacy...now you may ask questions that invade my privacy" would be a pertty contradictory thing to say

you bought something with a tiger head on it, you got scammed. make more money and move on.

i mean what do you think the "questions" would be like? who he had in the super bowl pool? how his swing was? how he's feeling? no, they would all be about his affair and i'd imagine all of his answers would be something to the effect of "ehh, that's kinda private i'd rather not discuss it"

yes lol @ people who admire sports figures, what retarded, gullible people

― J0rdan S., Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:12 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes, LOL

srsly if you are holding sports figures to some standard that actually affects YOUR LIFE AND FEELINGS then you are a child

cf politicians, movie stars, etc.

you know what, the whole taking questions part of the thing is ancillary, because i agree that nothing would have come of it -- i just think it's some coward ass shit to do what he's doing

http://cinephile.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/07-07-swimfan.jpg

afaic tiger woods is a dude who plays golf. if he cheats on his wife, then that sucks, and is his (~their~) problem. i don't need an apology from him.

srsly if you are holding sports figures to some standard that actually affects YOUR LIFE AND FEELINGS then you are a child

i'm not saying i do, but to pretend that there are people who don't and that tiger woods wasn't complicit in it happening to him is equally as naive

i don't need an apology from him.

― nitzer ebbebe (gbx), Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:17 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark

because uttering the words "i'm sorry" is such a terrible thing to have to do -- poor billionaire tiger

that may be true but saying that ergo therefore tiger woods has a responsibility to them is where I can't get on the train with you xp

can we at least agree that empirically he played the fuck out of himself and should fire his whole management team?

?

i'm not pretending that there are people that don't. i'm saying that they have severely misplaced priorities, and, moreover, that their priorities shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not the dude has to apologize to THEM and not his wife and family.

like i get that he is a public figure and ought to expect that this garbage is something he should have to deal with, i just don't think it's something he SHOULD have to deal with.

many xps