Inquiry into child abuse at Catholic institutions in Ireland

as in that seems sort of difficult if they still run most of the schools

be lying if i told you i knew much more than it's an ongoing movement- atm there's choice in the secondary school system to the tune of maybe 50/50 (at a guess) between catholic-ethos-nominally-but-state-run and maybe the likes of christian brothers/nuns schools. the big movement for reform is coming in the national school system, where it must be well over 90% catholic-run.

this is just an indicator, but i'm sure there's been official movement on this in the past while:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0125/1224263035014.html

thanks

i'm no good at parsing searches this time of night on bank holiday weekends, but it shouldn't be difficult to get better information for yourself tbh.

sinead o'connor bleating on the late late friday night about 'they are not representing the holy spirit' was an odd one. it was like she was trying to reach out to irish belief that isnt there and hasnt been there for a long time now.

dont think the church has really represented beliefs in ireland in a long long time. This is really where the problem is imo, people's fealty lies with the institution itself rather than what it represents so that when shit like this comes up, it is not their beliefs that they feel are being betrayed and so the disconnection between the church's purported message (hey love one another you guys) and the bad shit they have repeatedly done for aeons isn't really a sticking point.

Also its worth bearing in mind that Irish people have been treated pretty badly by the church their whole lives (esp. older gen ppl) and have stuck with them with stockholm syndrome dependency, so I mean, I don't really believe that this is the unexploded mine thats gonna tear the church down here and feel that the growing animosity as it is being portrayed is really being exaggerated by both liberal-minded journo types (the press has got this weirdly hysterical disconnection from the gen. mood off slightly peeved apathy in normal folks I think) who really want this to be the end of the strange grip held by an institution which has had a fairly abusive history with this country, but also by the church which it seems is pretty happy to play up the backlash (the pope's letter talks a lot about the deterioration of religious values and respect being a large fault in Ireland, its like they're trying to play wounded in order to shift the political mood away from animosity)

One thing I have been thinking about is how clever the church is about the shit it can get away with in different countries (thinking esp here of the case recently enough where the vatican defended the excommunication of the ppl who helped a brazilian girl have an abortion when she became pregnant after being raped, the man who raped her was not excommunicated cos you know jesus is about forgiveness right?) Obviously there's a lot of freedoms that Irish ppl take for granted now that the church would have fairly recently taken a hard line on, I think if the church actually started encroaching on these freedoms now the backlash would be real, but they're too smart for that shit u no?

sinead o'connor bleating on the late late friday night about 'they are not representing the holy spirit' was an odd one. it was like she was trying to reach out to irish belief that isnt there and hasnt been there for a long time now.

i didn't see it?, so i don't know, but i think there's reaching out and there's showing that you occupy some of the same ground as your antagonist but disagree regarding specifics. some of the most powerful parts of letter from a birmingham jail are in MLK reclaiming 'god's will' from people who are misusing it, saying the lord isn't a segregationist etc.

can't help but feel ur all being distracted by gossip tbh

tiern@n's right about just about everything, btw. the church has relinquished power slowly, until it's an irrelevance except among the older generation.

This fucking guy

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/40884/

Pope Benedict refuses to accept the resignation of two auxiliary bishops heavily criticised in Murphy report.

Apparently, when the two in question were contacted to clarify their resignation letters, they expressed belief that they had done nothing wrong. Pope's ok with that, issue resolved.

Diarmuid Martin must feel like he's up against the lot of them, I relly feel for him and his efforts at this stage.

a little off-topic but I'm curiously anticipating the shitstorm I suspect will surround the UK papal visit

I don't hink it's off-topic at all- the coverage of this stuff is, if the earlier discussions itt are accurate, at least as comprehensive in teh UK as over here.

I look forward to it. There's a groundswell or a seachange or whatever you want to call it in the general populace'sattitude to the magnitude and obviousness of this behaviour

I doubt there will be a shitstorm, Catholicism counts for fuck all in the UK

I don't think you have to care about Catholicism to get worked up about the visit of a Pontiff that enthusiastically reps for child abusers.

Maybe, but GBP just not interested in the Pope

That's the stage of any relationship where the rejection really starts to sting- maybe he'll be outside Buckingham with a ghetto blaster lashin out the gregorian chants

General attitude will be "None of our business" I reckon

ie protestants

(reading michael palin's biographies atm, got that kind of english middle class protestant outlook ont he brain maybe)

We should be interested, xp, isn't it gonna cost £12m pounds? Instead we'll all get angsty about some council spending a couple of grand on a trip to Blackpool.

Anyway, won't he just be going places he'll be welcome: Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester, quick trip to London to meet the enemy Queen

Yeah Glasgow's famous for loving the old Popes :/

You could characterise it as a love/hate relationship

This article from last year is great...right from the url
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/09/24/second-coming-115875-21696429/

Those who may voice their objections to Benedict's state visit could include Harry Potter fans, rock fans, Jews, gays...

http://www.papalvisitstore.com/images/biglogotee.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VITm934BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

interest in gossip > interest in catholicism

newman's beatification won't detract from that

at least half of catholics in scotland come from the glasgow area, the rest of the area hates him but i doubt many will bother to protest

And guess where's he's going first in the UK?

That big airport in Paisley?

fucking really outraged by this

not surprised I guess but - fuckin - you always wish the church would do the right thing for once

Diarmuid Martin, as I said- He's really been tryin over here. This refusal to accept the resignations is a slap on the wrist for him personally, as he had to push very hard to even get that much.

But yeah, it's incredibly hard to read exactly what Benedict thinks he's getting form this move.

Either in real world politics- it's a spurning of an easy out, mitigation, etc

Metaphysical my-rules-are-handed-down-directly-from-god- stfu pope, they didn't help abused kids.

essentially, it's a hell of a senseless 'fuck you' to everyone on the side of ... good?

It is believed that Senior Vatican figures are worried about the possible “domino effect” that could occur from this current set of tendered resignations and this may have influenced the pontiff’s decision.

how in the fuck are you 'concerned' about a 'domino effect' where these fuckers resign? HOW IS THAT FUCKING PROBLEM?

yeah -- what about the "domino effect" of pedophiles recognizing a safe haven for their outrages when they see one? for Christ's sake

they're worried thousands of other ones have to resign all over the world. they dont give a shit about doing the right thing. these men of the cloth have lost their way. Still, they will get judged properly one day if what they believe in actually happens.

The biggest worry Benedict has lately is the insiduous threat of humans with breasts getting their feet in the door of ministering the word of Christ.

Again- this fucking guy.

I mean one of the worst things about being an ex-Catholic is that it's just really really hard to fully wash your hands of the whole deal - if you could just go, OK, you know what, that's an irredeemable snakepit of horror, everybody needs to gtfo now, but there's always this hope of people righting the ship. vain ridiculous hope I think if we're being realistic but you know what the fuck. all those generations of kids fucked up by these people and the best they can do is a vague "the Church grieves for victims but isn't about to actually make anybody bear any consequences, except the children of course, gotta shoulder your burden gracefully"

this fucking Vicar of Christ

well, suffer them, y'know? xp

that's the beauty of the afterlife- what you go through in this world is a downpayment.

they're doing those kids a favour, when you think about it.

any actual practising Catholics posting in the thread or all we all ex-ones doomed?

i beat catholicism before i beat super mario world

I went to mass a few times year before last when I was going through hard times & I have been known to still pray the rosary even though I have no faith to speak of. old habits and comforts die hard & painfully.

man do i hate these fuckers

i can slip into it as needs be, funerals, weddings, christenings, the usual. it's a social necessity that i don't have to rail against or anything. most of our priests have been stand-up guys, tbh.

Nothing wrong with praying, even if it's out of habit as a kid. But i cant say I've ever said the rosary since school.

yes, some priests we've had have been great guys. Im still shocked the one we had in the late 80s was a pedo. Funnily enough my mum didn't like him much, but she had no idea what he had done in the 1970s. It's disgusting he never went to jail.