San Francisco and what to do in it

didn't finish the MUNI article tbh, not telling me things I don't already know. pro-labor as I am, that agency will never be fixed until a new contract stripping out all the bullshit is in place. and there is a LOT of bullshit, MUNI employees basically make more money the less they show up to work.

It's good. Maybe not novel, but its pretty comprehensive.

Shakey, what also bugs me about that is that, for example, my morning bus driver, always the same Muslim dude, is polite, friendly and ALWAYS there. It's not just us getting screwed but in a sense him, since he's a conscientious guy who doesn't take random days off 'just 'cause'. Pro-labor doesn't have to mean pro-insane-business-practices.

First time I used the Muni, I thought it looked pretty great on paper (you can get pretty much anywhere you want) but could not believe that most lines stop at EVERY block. That is some BS.

eh that doesn't really bother me. there are express/limited lines for all the more popular routes.

NTRVP, just to quibble, it's every other block on the local routes.

Ha well it seems like every block, and the routes I take definitely have periods where they stop at every block. That actually reminds me, do you call a 'block' any length of street between two adjacent streets? e.g. I would call between Dolores & Guerrero one block wherever, even though on 23rd there is a Quane, Fair Oaks and Ames between them?

I would call the Dolroes to Guerero stretch a block for the purposes of overall distance or orientation unless it was for parking and then I would be more specific about which 'block' it was. For my purposes, though, MUNI is usually almost as quick as a taxi (I have to find one) or my car (I have to find parking) unless it's a long haul.

now that we have a kid (who's not yet old enough to ride the bus) we drive the car a lot more - to parks, to the store, etc. I still take MUNI everywhere else tho, and I expect as she gets older, our use of the car will decline. cuz yeah parking is a bitch.

"eh that doesn't really bother me."

It should bother you! It's slows down the entire system and makes it that much expensive and inefficient! And it is compounded by the fact that the busiest lines don't have bus-only lanes (not to mention the silly and easily fare collection metods, etc)! The slowness of MUNI is one of the main reasons why more people don't ride.

"easily evaded"

I suppose... but you just know the shitstorm MUNI would get if they just said they were removing a bunch of stops to speed up transit times.

If I didn't have a garage and an old fully paid-off car, I wouldn't have a car, even with today's MUNI.

I know people do it, but I ain't takin a 2yo everywhere on the bus. travel time would increase massively and it would just be a nightmare imho

Sure but they should still do it. MORE people would ride and they'd make more money.

xp Yeah my parents did it.

I ride with toddlers and little kids all the time with rather mixed but not horrible results but the 'terrible twos' are not an age I would personally like to take on MUNI and often dislike when they're there. Otoh, those kids who have been taking MUNI before that age tend to be better behaved than those kids for whom it's the first trip or only an occasional experience. The previous scientifically proven sentences are based on my towering intellect and completely anecdotal experience on pretty regular routes.

I've never had a car and lived in cities all my adult life, the Muni is great (and cheap) compared to most and although slow I wouldn't get a car just on that basis. Mind you I haven't tried it in rush hour yet, and I imagine taking a kid + grocery shopping is stressful enough to fork out for a taxi. That's not to say they shouldn't improve all that stuff they mention in the article, esp bus lanes. The 24-Divisadero is *painful* - stop at traffic lights - move 10 meters - stop at bus stop - move 20m - stop at traffic lights - move 10 meters - get in hilarious Muni fight - argghhh

mmm Kung Fu Tacos. I approve

I have semi-regular appts in Laurel Village, and coming back when I get out of the bus on California or Post (depending on what westbound bus I get on Cal), I've started not even bothering w/the bus and just walking down Divis which is a pleasant enough walk and frankly more pleasant than that stretch of bus and about the same amount of time.

24 Divisadero is the worst bus (possibly in the universe) in terms of timeliness. I regularly walk from California/Divis to Castro/Noe without seeing a single bus on the horizon.

Plus, even if you do get a bus, it tends to be full. I do take it to Noe Valley, though. I just don't do the Divis corridor.

Surprised the MUNI has that bad a rap. Living in Dallas all my life, functional mass transit was like spotting my first unicorn.

It's a very mixed bag, but yeah I think most people acknowledge that even at its worst it's still pretty great despite too often being needlessly slow and unreliable.

milo, even w/ all the aggros, the crazies, the taggers, the delays, etc..., you're talking about a city that's 7x7 miles squared and highly conctrated toward the eastern side of the city; it might suck but your trip is unlikely to suck for very long.

hey i am going to be in this city on thursday! for a few days, then driving up the coast w/ friend. i haven't been to SF since 1994! o_O
i guess i will figure out what to do in it!

That's why I'm surprised - I thought MUNI did a good job the two weeks I was there last year. The only time I had to grab a cab was making it to a Giants game when my girlfriend was slow getting ready.

you're talking about a city that's 7x7 miles squared and highly conctrated toward the eastern side of the city; it might suck but your trip is unlikely to suck for very long.

otm - w/ the exception of really, really long trips, I just walk everywhere in sf. muni's sorta *allowed* to suck because of the 7x7 thing.

I find it highly functional and I use it all the time if I'm not just walking.

rrobyn, have fun. Are you fapping with any of the autochtones?

also, a lot of out of towners forget the topographical diversity of SF, it's hard to run subways into areas with extreme hills imo. which is why cable cars, LRVs and streetcars still make sense.

From where I live, I can do the haight, hayes valley, the mission and the castro on foot, easily get downtown via several MUNI options and get over to the marina via the 22. It's very rare for me to drive and it's an excellent city in which to walk and I like my 'hood a lot and mostly hang around here.

hard but not *impossible*

xp

i haven't made any FAP plans, as this is somewhat impromtu and i've been busy, but that would be fun :)

i look fwd to taking your public transit system regardless

Well, yeah, there are plenty of tunnels in MUNI's light rail system.

xpost

so, what does ilx think of central subway?

that's a part of town i'm rarely in (mostly caters to tourists) but is a notable area of fare-dodging (and muni fights!). so it may be good for city revenues, at least in the long run.

I take it home every day.

xpost

mwhite, meant this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Subway

Oh, duh. Right. As we increasingly ask vehicular traffic to give way downtown, I can't help but think that any underground Public transport relief can'' be but a good thing and since it would serve an important and dense corridor.

it's more the opportunity cost that's the issue, I think. I mean, if this is the first step for a line that one day gets to north beach, and from there sneaks up to the presidio, okay, that's something pretty useful. but for the time being...transit to chinatown?

I am pro-any public transportation, but if I had 2 billion to spend on sf transit...

If you've ever spent any time on any of the Stockton St buses...

I haven't! because anything in that area is a 5 minute walk imo

my pet project would prolly be light-rail up van ness or geary

yeah is there really that much traffic between 4th and King and Chinatown...? That seems like a random route to me... but maybe there are lots of people taking Caltrains that want to get to Chinatown.

getting Muni light rail out on the northwest end of town seems like the more pressing/no-brainer option

I wouldn't spend any money on single rail trains.

my pet project would prolly be light-rail up van ness or geary

Van Ness is also a Fed highway for better or for worse and I'm kind of with you on Geary

yeah is there really that much traffic between 4th and King and Chinatown...? That seems like a random route to me... but maybe there are lots of people taking Caltrains that want to get to Chinatown.

i think the underlying issue with the central subway is:

(1) better enforcing the 30-Stockton to Powell BART which has rampant fare-dodging, I think that one of the big reveals of the last SFMTA study was that route has the double distinction of the lowest yield of fares with one of the highest capacity riderships. Not sure if you've ever been on this bus but if you have, you know what i'm not talking about.

(2) 4th & King direct via Powell is better/frequent BART connector to the baseball stadium and with rumors that the Warriors are heading back to SF to a new arena adjacent to AT&T Park so this would help streamline traffic to the sporting events (and CalTrain) from downtown rather than the T/N trains which get a little wonky when they have to disengage from/to auto-pilot.

i have not read the wiki just all imho so if you disagree fuk u.

I was just about to post my reasons for hating the idea, but those are both pretty solid arguments for it.

Main reason I hate the idea is because it's such a short walk. I used to take the 30/45 to work near 4th and King every morning, and those buses are completely empty before/after Mission (depending on if it's in our outbound.

seems like a huge waste to stop at Chinatown. Would love to see it go up under Columbus and threw Marina to Presidio or something. Agree with iatee that the Richmond is also in serious need of some transit <3. a subway following Geary out to the coast would be great for those areas.

i have not read the wiki just all imho so if you disagree fuk u.

lol luv ya Shasta don't ever change

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Muni-F-line-extension-faces-setback-92155354.html

whoa... i mean, i'm no fan of that side of the city but holy shit, how the fuck will those old F-cars go up the Ft. Mason hill w/ no cables? wau @ all that.