Salvia Divinorum (C or D)?

Interest + skepticism. It's just, think of all that you've read, teachings that you've received, etc. When have you ever heard an account of a lama giving a student a plant in order to reacquaint the student with the nature of mind? Vajrayana is very practical, so I imagine that if such a thing were thought to be beneficial, then it would be employed. From what I understand, the teachers in these traditions would have sufficient realization to be able to do this for the student without recourse to plants.

Sebastien, I am merely saying that there are frequent anecdotal reports of telepathic experiences when people have ingested Ayahuasca and other substances.

Oh hey guys I forgot to mention:

I did try it without significant result on one occasion previous to the story mentioned above. I had On the Corner playing really loud, I hit, and proceeded to freak out. Apocalyptic doom-funk is a bad idea when you're trying new psychedelics, but I was young and stupid.

No hallucinations (I figure I did it all wrong). I fought the impulse to hyperventilate and was gripped by a sudden panic that everyone on earth was going to know I'd been smoking this stuff. I started to frantically clean my device to rid it of the smell and, in my panic, dropped and broke it.

but I was young and stupid younger and stupider.

Hm, I thought my comments were pretty clear about how common psychedelics in Buddhism are:

Yeah, the hippie mentality of psychedelics as "instant enlightenment" is silly. It's the opposite, pretty much. Certain Vajrayana sects use/d them once or twice to reintroduce a person to the nature of mind, but more than this is basically going the opposite way of what Buddhists are trying to achieve.

But, I guess it is a little vague. To be extremely clear, then, it's not common and I don't even know if it is still practiced anywhere (though possibly?) and the mp3 I had of it was actually called something like "use of psychedelics in secret vajrayana cults" but I am having a damn hard time trying to locate it again. You used to be able to just Google "psychedelic vajrayana" and it popped right up on the first page. Anyway, if you Google the same terms now, as I said, you will find plenty of information about it. Vajrayana practitioners also get drunk. That's pretty common knowledge. They're not simply trying to "get wasted," but some people end up doing that and fooling themselves about progressing. As an additional thought, meaning nothing whatsoever, have you ever noticed how psychedelic Tibetan art is?

dell what do you think of that guy Randi who offers $1,000,000 to anyone who can demonstrate psychic powers? don't you think you should have a go at it and bag that prize ?

I think dell was just providing links to the psyche experiment I had mentioned for anyone who was interested. As far as Randi goes, there are some funny YouTube videos that demonstrate his useful role in society. He saves us from people in kung fu suits who try to move pages of a phonebook with their "minds," but he also is a roadblock to serious scientific inquiry. James Randi is a "pseudo-skeptic" and, basically, full of shit in his own way. He's as much a carny as the people he tends to expose. But, if someone really had a paranormal power, he certainly would not ever admit it, as his pattern of behavior indicates. Anyone who raises the JREF publicity stunt $million prize as a serious response to discussion of the "paranormal" can't be very serious, either.

nothing less than a roadblock to serious scientific inquiry... can you be more dramatic?

can you be more rhetorical?

But, if someone really had a paranormal power, he certainly would not ever admit it, as his pattern of behavior indicates.

why is that?

Because he's an angry little man whose livelihood depends on it now that he's a failed magician?

go revive a paranormal thread or whatever I'm done with you

like I give a fuck?

Pseudo-skepticism at work: "I overstated my case... based on the small amount of data I obtained. It was rash and improper of me to do so." ... Randi stated: "Viewing the entire tape, we see..." This is simply not true, and Randi now admits that he has never seen the tape.

I'm done with you

hahahaha this fuckin guy

Yeah, :), I was trying to bait him back with that last post just so's I could say, "I thought you were done with me!"

dean ge = nude spock?

ya lost me

I always thought mushrooms were one of the high points of that -- you know, stuff that's not inherently pleasurable, and just breaks your brain in a way that may or may not be awesome -- but legal drugs and pseudo-drugs like this or the bottle of Robo are definitely the kings of it.

-- nabisco, Friday, July 27, 2007 10:10 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Link

i dont' get what nabisco is saying here. surely mushrooms are among the most gentle & pleasant drugs out there?

GAH not for mne. That's why, I realize now, if mushrooms have wrecked my mind for weeks after doing them, I probably shouldn't try something this potent. But I gots some mental problems too. That's always a recipe for disaster. I just watched "The Devil and Daniel Johnston" and it reminded me of how fucked up I was on mushrooms+no psych meds. Man, what a depressing afternoon ever since.

I was just a useless, conspiratorial, paranoid wreck who was not taking care of myself one whit.

yeah, I know a dude who had a totally awful shroom trip that left him depressed for months... but like with abbott, I think there were preexisting conditions.

mental problems notwithstanding, mushrooms are not gentle and are maybe pleasant despite themselves imo. they just don't agree with me, mostly cause I have a low low low tolerance for nausea(too low to put up with it while chasing a high/drunk); people talk about acid as the harsh, ugly synthetic(!) cousin but it's far more gentle in my experience.

hmmm. horses for courses i guess

I had an exp more like you slocki! I found them gentle, like weed is, I was expecting full on hallucinations but never had any, just extra active imagintion, and uncontrollable giggling (like, almost actually peeing myself giggling, it was awesome). Midwinter frosty icy canberra night full of mist and icy trees? AWESOME SHROOM FUN :)

I did have wonderful, ecstatic, beautiful trips on 2ci, which fucked with my head in a completely different way.

Later on, I mean. At least it wasn't so bad I couldn't leave my house for a month afterwards without being terrified of potentially seeing a picture/losing my mind over of Will Smith as fishman in Shark Tales, like after my first shroom binge.

have you foregone (non-prescription) psychoactives since you went back on your meds?

That was sanskrit who provided the links to those experiments...but at any rate, I tend to agree with dean in regards to Randi. I don't know if I'd call him a "pseudo-skeptic", though; rather, I'd say that he is a skeptic of the worst kind. I get the impression that he is more invested in defending a rigid scientific materialist worldview than he is in genuinely being open to the possibilities of phenomena which do not fit into said worldview...I do applaud some aspects of what he has done as far as calling bullshit on stuff that is patent nonsense, but dean's probably right in contending that "if someone really had a paranormal power, he certainly would not ever admit it". Plus I am put off by his (Randi's) seeming smugness and self-righteousness.

God forbid that there are things that we cannot see, or cannot yet explain, or that do not fit into our pet paradigms...

Well, the reason I used the term pseudo-skeptic is because skepticism implies some level of doubt. Randi's entire premise is a foregone conclusion about as believable as the intelligent design person who "doubts" evolution. The huckster flat-out lies to "disprove" things he never honestly tested. When called on his bullshit, he'll admit to being less than scientific and he'll even admit to lying occasionally, but it's all done with a dismissive attitude the way Bill O'Reilly might admit to some wrongdoing. "Hey, so maybe I was less than fair, but can you blame me? I don't have time for this sort of nonsense." He likes to sweep this sort of publicity under the rug with a brief kiss off note on his website (or not) and focus on the real "important" issues, like taking down famous tv psychics who are obviously full of shit and easy to suck into his circus. As if anything could be more of a waste of his time than challenging Sylvia Browne.

BTW, I revived the one Randi thread I could find so we could get back to talking about drugs here...

I found a new and interesting drug just now called Calea zacatechichi. Anyone ever tried it? It's a "dream herb" and what appeals to me about it is that it seems to have been used by native americans for dream exploration. This sounds similar to Tibetan dream yoga, which I'm rather fond of.

so, a friend of mine is getting some soon. should i try it?

i call it "die" cuz it makes me feel like im dead.

-- chaki, Sunday, April 7, 2002 12:00 AM

still funny

bloomer you should! give reports etcc..

I tried this once and got lost in a painting for about an hour.

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, July 26, 2007

Dude you got Stendahl Syndrome.

Does the salvia stuff you can buy from 'legal high' websites and the like actually resemble the shit people are talking about here?

yup same shit

http://www.superdeluxeblog.com/2007/12/26/and-now-for-the-other-best-of-list/

that first video is still the greatest video ever

so is the asian kid in the grass

i kinda dig "zombie freakout".
Honestly, I would've been curious enough to try this, but after seeing these, I'll pass.

Funeral for a Wooden Effigy of Jack Nicholson

I'm alive! I'm not made of sticks!

sorry, try: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=67664

i worry that if mushrooms were ever legalized the world would be flooded with similar youtube videos and erowid firsthand accounts

actually im not "worried" about that, i would love to see more jocks speaking in tongues

so mainstream now

http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/03/meme-alert-teen.html

LOL @ that one

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/VirtualContent/87365/20070717212329.jpg

Hoos, drugs is naughty

That said, Me + One small magic mushroom + one toke of spliff + no alcohol + Amsterdam = one night trapped inside a sleeping bag with visions of Amelie in the curtains.

If Salvia is anything like that, I'll kindly pass.

yeah i will def never fuck w/this shit again. total mistake in retrospect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hAY9ojJOA0

Holy hell. Yeah, looks like good times...