Anticipating Treme aka "Tremé" - David Simon and his buddies do post-Katrina N.O.

so far this thread is pretty light on Wire talk aside from referencing what actors from it are here (and i'll take the blame for some of the Wire comparisons that are on this thread, heh). 69 do you still live here?

god please no more "authentic" scenes...that busking scene is fucking tragic. this show needs to cut back on the "soul" asap. oh those damn tourists seeking "authenticity", they can never feel the soul of new orleans like the real new orleans natives goddamn do!

I think maybe you're misinterpeting those scenes? It's the righteous keyboard player that comes off as a dick (as does Steve Zahn's character for similar reasons in most of his scenes).

yeah he does come across as a dick, but don't believe for a second that he's meant to be a dick in relation to the tourists. couple that with the "we used to build shit in this country" part 2 "now we teach digital media" rant...

you think people are watching and the majority think "what a dick" at these scenes?

Yes! And I think it's definitely intentional. The tourists seem naive and goofy, maybe a little rube-ish, but not as mean as that guy - his partner, the violinist, is pretty embarassed for him during the scene. Also, in a later scene they imply somewhat that the street musician is lying and bragging about what he was really doing during Katrina. Though I agree that there doesn't seem to be that kind of self-awareness with John Goodman's character, he's a little too directly cast as a authorial mouthpiece.

i dunno...feels dangerously like writer's opinions on shit being allowed to spew forth a bit too much. even if the dude is a dick it's still pitched as authentic new orleans dude vs clueless rubes...

already in love with the violinist tho...

diet lizzy kaplan

i dunno...feels dangerously like writer's opinions on shit being allowed to spew forth a bit too much. even if the dude is a dick it's still pitched as authentic new orleans dude vs clueless rubes...

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

i really didn't know what to make of this, as i suggested above. maybe we were supposed to think it was the busker that was full of shit?

what i DON'T think was meant to happen: audience thinks the busker's music sucks. which is sort of did. to make it clear that it was supposed to be "good", we got a bunch of reaction shots of locals (read: mostly black people) bobbing their heads appreciatively. otherwise i wouldn't thought it was an intentional pisstake.

I definitely thought the busker was being depicted as a bit of a cunt, to criticize the sort of elitism that can follow if you take your "in the know" attitude too far. I think this wasn't particularly ambiguous, as the reaction shots of tbe violinist being embarrassed of him, and the later scene with her questioning his stories of heroism during the flood didn't make him look particularly sympathetic. Even though the Christian tourists were shown to be kinda clueless, I felt they were depicted in a more positive light, especially in the later scene were they did try to find out more about the "real" New Orleans. I took the whole thing to be a bit of self-deflating criticism on part of the makers of Treme, as (based on the two episodes I've seen) the series obviously fetishizes NO music and culture to some extent, but they wanted to show what happens if you take that sort of fetishism too far. Looks like they're doing something similar with DJ character too; even though he's more sympathetic than the busker, it's quite clear that his enthusiasm for "realness" sometimes goes too far as well.

I was sold as soon as I saw Cool Lester Smooth in full Mardi Gras Indian dress. I'm going wherever this boat is taking me.

Most interesting character plots to me thus far: Violinist/Keyboard player busker drama, and Antoine's assault on Shawn Kemp's super baby daddy status.

In the running: Antoine's ex-wife looking for her lost son, Big Chief Lambreaux and his family's struggle to rectify its role in post-Katrina New Orleans, and his attempts to bring the tribe back together.

Least interesting: Steve Zahn, although he may bring the lol's occasionally.

havent seen last nights episode yet but the stevie-d-lookin busker guy comes off like a dick (intentionally on the writers part, i think) and his music sucks (i assume this is unintentional)

they are going to need to lose a lot of the hard-on for authenticity and soul and whatever for this to be as good as the wire

robcorddry Watching Treme on HBO. I hope it's as important as it is boring.

man, i'm having a lot of trouble distilling my feelings about this. i know ilx isn't big on "authenticity and soul" but when it comes to shit like second line music and indian music, those are in no way abstract concepts. it runs deep and if you're not playing it right, somebody will definitely let you know. and i really believe that doesn't exist in quite the same way anywhere else in the u.s., and i appreciate that they're trying to get it across.

on that note, i'm hoping for more brass band stuff and less time spent on ragamuffin buskers (character stuff aside), galactic, etc.

btw a way better version of that 'saints' arrangement is on this record: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WF1PCK/ref=dm_ap_alb41

when it comes to shit like second line music and indian music, those are in no way abstract concepts. it runs deep and if you're not playing it right, somebody will definitely let you know.

This could not be more true.

I still remember when I was living in Northwest Mississippi, and my cousin was living in New Orleans, I used to be able to get out of work and make it within receiving range of the WWOZ Afternoon Brass show on Friday afternoons on the weekends I would go and visit with her. Damn, those fat tubas are AWESOME.

man, i'm having a lot of trouble distilling my feelings about this. i know ilx isn't big on "authenticity and soul" but when it comes to shit like second line music and indian music, those are in no way abstract concepts. it runs deep and if you're not playing it right, somebody will definitely let you know. and i really believe that doesn't exist in quite the same way anywhere else in the u.s., and i appreciate that they're trying to get it across.

right but its not really the authentic-music stuff that bugs me, its the cartoonish 'outsiders' and john goodman polemics. THOUGH the violin and piano duo do bug me, because they suck

agreed

The Katrina Tour thing was kinda hamfisted.

yeah personally it's not that the music guys are authentic, it's the sort of misanthropic feel of the treatment of "outsiders" so far and the john goodman polemics are just sort of wrong/stupid yet it's like you're supposed to pound the couch and go "damn right" every time he speaks.

yeah and i think that aspect feeds off of the "authentic music" bit--like because theyve taken such great pains to really get the music right, and because the music trades very seriously on authenticity (i did like the "bourbons got pride" joke), the writers think they can carry that over to all aspects of the show

i dunno there are a few layers of irony in a hipster kid busking careless love and then getting vicious wrt authenticity

are they setting him up as the Voodoo Shop Killer?

you mean this?

http://www.amazon.com/Shake-Devil-Off-Murder-Orleans/dp/0805088938

robcorddry Watching Treme on HBO. I hope it's as important as it is boring.

qft

xpost that's the one

robcorddry Watching Treme on HBO. I hope it's as important as it is boring.

― Jolyon Swagg (jim in glasgow), Monday, April 26, 2010 12:07 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

LOL x1000

the third episode was ok. the problem with TV, for me, is that so often the nature of the system of making series TV ensures that no director has much of a free hand in how to treat the material. and so in terms of the texture (stylistic and emotional) of an episode, it will often just feel kind of... blah. so while i'm reasonably invested in the characters, some of the scenes just seemed so indifferently shaped as to really tax my interest. this latest episode was the first where that was a strong problem. some scenes were handled well, others (the encounter between the bar owner and her husband in front of her bar) were really sloppy. but most were just blah, as noted.

no motivation to watch the third ep but will do at some point...

Most interesting character plots to me thus far: Violinist/Keyboard player busker drama
http://www.amazon.com/Shake-Devil-Off-Murder-Orleans/dp/0805088938
Yup. The first time I saw those two characters and heard that she had been flashing people after Katrina, Zachary Bowen and Addie Hall immediately came to mind. You can draw numerous parallels. That relationship will certainly end badly.

More about that here ...

she had been flashing people after Katrina,

wha?

apparently to ensure that cops/guard had a reason to keep coming by their block

treméh

(j/k, this is ok-to-pretty good but as I ws saying to ilx user gukbe earlier today I'm not feeling the need to street team it just yet)

it's kinda funny how everyone's having the "i don't know about this radio DJ guy, am I supposed to sympathize with him or is he just an annoying doofus?" when that could probably describe, like, every role in Steve Zahn's entire career

Also, The Wire had some annoying doofuses.

i like the steve zahn character. the interaction w/ his totally reasonable neighbors was nicely played. he's using the "authenticity" of tremé as an alibi for being an asshole. so to its credit the show, while obviously very invested in "authenticity," plays it up as a pose as well.

Steve Zahn's stripper song was great.

yeah, it was funny how he invites his friend over to hear his amazing, intense new song... and it's simply a revelation about a gaggle of strippers moving in across the street.\

my posts these days make me sound mildly retarded. i apologize for that.

Wow, interesting stuff about Bowen and Hall, I had no clue.

Dunno if you've seen this, it's a nice blog by a Tulane music prof on the music in Treme:
http://soundoftreme.blogspot.com/

Great article on Tootie Montana:
http://www.louisianafolklife.org/LT/Virtual_Books/Hes_Prettiest/hes_the_prettiest_tootie_montana.html

I think Zahn's character is being redeemed - you can see why people like him, even if he's childish and irresponsible. He rushed right over to the restaurant with his check to make up for being a dick.

I'm confused by Goodman's reaction to Zahn - Goodman instantly loathed him, which I thought was weird for a guy who professes such love for the culture of NOLA. The only thing I could think of was he's wary of anybody out to interest his daughter in low-prestige, low-wage occupations (like being a musician). But his despising Zahn seemed really intense and came out of nowhere. Am I missing some subtext here?

i definitely picked up that goodman's character was concerned about zahn perving on his daughter.

the character goodman plays gives off an impressively imposing vibe. i'd be scared of him too.

i definitely picked up that goodman's character was concerned about zahn perving on his daughter.

i should add-- this was partly because there was a POV shot of zahn sitting a bit close to her on the piano bench, followed by a shot of goodman looking a bit incredulous. i think he's just supposed to be an overly protective father (and we know the zahn character is a perv, even if he may not be that kind of perv).

i mean, c'mon, Davis does look kinda dirty. that shaving line was wonderful.

I did see that POV shot - but Goodman's adverse reaction to Zahn is immediately after opening the door to him, that's what confused me. Goodman's dislike of him seems to be of the entirety of Zahn's character, rather than just fear of molestation. I'll let it go because I'm sure they'll follow up on this in future episodes.

I'm enjoying this but I feel that something needs to happen soon, aside from that kid being beaten up it all feels a bit first-episode still. Enough scene setting, now give us an idea of where you're going to take this.

I was confused by the piano lesson scene too. The Tulane professor hasn't come across characters like this around his beloved city before (he's surprised that a low-income musician didn't shave before giving a lesson)? And I didn't think it could be construed in any way that Davis was interested in his daughter, despite his reputation.
Yeah, I think they've run into each other before and we'll learn more about that later.

Davis seemed to know Goodman's wife, so why not...

I'm enjoying this but I feel that something needs to happen soon, aside from that kid being beaten up it all feels a bit first-episode still. Enough scene setting, now give us an idea of where you're going to take this.

― Matt DC, Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:35 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah... i kinda said this upthread and maybe it's unrealistic to expect a seasonal arc quite as heavy and dark as The Wire usually had (at the very least the body count is gonna be a lot lower), but it seems like they have to be building to something and it feels like those gears are still turning very slowly.

I also think Goodman knows that his daughter a little developing hell-raiser in her, and wants to prevent her from being exposed to what he perceives - probably correctly - as a BAD influence.

Davis is an asshole, but he seems to have more good intentions than not. I think, like a lot of pothead musicians I know, he's just a very selfish person who rarely pulls his head out of his own ass.

His stripper song was pretty great, though - and I love how she was a fleeting muse the first few times he saw her.