The Vagaries of Dating The Vagaries of Dating

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Wow, I read the whole thread up to 7 months ago, and I can't stay awake. Interesting stuff. I discovered that I have a great skill for crafting the post-1st-date "I didn't feel the connection I'm looking for" email that seems to be fail-proof.

NB: I think it is not OK at all to break up over email, so I have only used this post-1st-date (or 2nd). Which seems to be my max anyway.

But yeh, I'm good at being a rejector! (But DAMNNNNN I'm bad at being rejected.)

fabulous mussels (Jesse), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 04:05 (fourteen years ago) link

But I know within 5 minutes of meeting someone whether I'm potentially interested in them romantically.

Yep. Though I keep an open mind and sometimes things go better than expected, but the first impression is pretty reliable for me.

fabulous mussels (Jesse), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 04:27 (fourteen years ago) link

With this one, it was this slower burn thing. I am liking that a lot more than 'BAM you are wonderful but I don't actually know you at all'

ljubljana, Tuesday, 18 May 2010 10:47 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah I am thinking that the latter is what I keep doing incl. in this instance but it's ok I'll pull back and be in her band or something maybe

but yeah I am probably going to quit OKCupid because that BAM etc thing is what that website does

coalition to me (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 12:25 (fourteen years ago) link

I try to comprehend how it is possible to date without wondering from the very first meeting, "What is this? Where are we going?" It's like a fish imagining something other than life in the water. What is the point of dating otherwise? And what do you think instead of those questions??

fabulous mussels (Jesse), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 21:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Maybe i'm just crazy but shouldn't the initial questions be "Who are you?" and "Do we get along?"

Have a slice of wine! (HI DERE), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 21:30 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm exaggerating, of course, but as we sort of touched on earlier, "do we get along?" is pretty well settled in the first few minutes.

fabulous mussels (Jesse), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 21:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Seriously feel like I'll never have a meaningful relationship ever again. It's so depressing, and can't even explain it, just suddenly realised how little faith I have. I don't even feel down on myself for any specific reason, just feel down that despite things going well in life and me getting along easily with people I can't even imagine meeting someone. Hurts if I think about it.

Sorry slight derail but not as downer as it may sound.

I see what this is (Local Garda), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 22:54 (fourteen years ago) link

I've been feeling like that since R left me, too. Mainly because I've not been single in a long time and I'm getting a little older (I know I dont look it, but if I meet a guy who likes me in their 20s what am I meant to say? "oh btw I'm actually 39, yeah lol sorry... uh ok bye").

Bums me out a bit. So for now I'm just gonna have mindless crushes and pretend nothing's wrong :/

Eyjafjallalalalalatrolololol (Trayce), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 00:39 (fourteen years ago) link

Jesse can you post that letter in handy fill-in-the-blanks style plz? I have a habit of getting in a date or two too deep with people I like and think are cool but, y'know...

all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 00:43 (fourteen years ago) link

trayce, um...ljubljana is more or less a similar age to you and she doesn't really seem to care, just rolls w/ it. sounds blase but don't give up hope!!

ronan...i dunno what to say really. it's not a fear i share although i DO realise it'll have to be someone freakin' special for it to really work. probably this is the case with you too? a nice woman will sweep you off your feet when you least expect it. at least keep going :)

coalition to me (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 00:43 (fourteen years ago) link

I do roll with the OKC dating, but for me that's easier than meeting someone IRL by far. Maybe because I'm a crap flirt. Trayce gets actual IRL approaches, which I would prefer! As for age, I'm 38 and my okc prefs are set to 35-45. But clearly, younger is not a bad thing. I am just a fusty oldie at heart.

ljubljana, Wednesday, 19 May 2010 02:54 (fourteen years ago) link

Also, I have spent much more time single than in a relationship. I think it's harder coming out of something serious.

ljubljana, Wednesday, 19 May 2010 02:55 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh I get approaches but theyre quite often from friends who are erm.. how can I put this politely... well there's a reason why theyre 45 and perpetually single?

And that is not at all what I'm looking for (creepy roleplayers, computer nerds and old goths, I'm looking at YOU).

Eyjafjallalalalalatrolololol (Trayce), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 03:11 (fourteen years ago) link

Ronan, I think you said somewhere upthread that you were having one of those 'how can anyone know me if I don't know myself' times. I read this at the time and it resonated like a fucking great gong, about a week before I met someone who is probably the most similar-thinking person to me I've ever dated. (Note to self: this does not mean you can get over-excited or that it will work out).

ljubljana, Wednesday, 19 May 2010 03:26 (fourteen years ago) link

Local Garda - I think I understand exactly how you feel. The last 2 or 3 months my attitude has changed a lot, but for almost every day since mid- 2002 I felt like there was no hope for possibly ever finding someone for even a half-assed relationship, much less something meaningful and maybe satisfying. It wasn't even that I was despairing - I just kind of knew that was reality.

In the past few months I have felt differently and I have gone on a few dates, on which I have adopted a different - hopefully better - perspective.

fabulous mussels (Jesse), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 03:33 (fourteen years ago) link

rogermexico, are you saying that you just keep seeing the person out of inertia?

fabulous mussels (Jesse), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 03:34 (fourteen years ago) link

not at all! more that i don't take the trouble to separate "i think you're really neat and fun to hang out with" from "i think we should be fooling around now" until date three or so, and I'm hoping for the form letter because I hate hate hate the "so you are awesome but it's not making an audible click is it?" conversation. even if it leaves everyone with plenty of opportunities to save face it makes me feel worse than having someone break things off with me.

i've had a string of these lately -- perfectly excellent people who should have much better things to do with their time than waste it on me, whose attention i should be glad to have, etc etc -- and it's just been a bit depressing. so the form letter would be helpful but even more so would be the ability to see it coming before the second date.

all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 03:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Etiquette question.

Seen this bloke 5 times. I'm seriously interested, I think he is too. (trying not to jinx this here...)

Saw him last on Sunday. He is currently away and gets back Friday, late. By then I'll have friends staying. They're here a week. Then I go away till the following Monday - so, two-week hiatus.

At this very delicate stage, do I invite him out with me and my visiting friends? (Friends are a couple - they are relaxed friendly people). It seems really presumptious about how things are going for me to ask him to join us one night, but maybe I'm just being silly? Instinct is not to ask.

ljubljana, Wednesday, 19 May 2010 11:53 (fourteen years ago) link

Good lord, of course ask him along with your friends! Why wouldnt you?

demiurge overkill (Trayce), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 11:57 (fourteen years ago) link

ask him imo

May be half naked, but knows a good headline when he sees it (darraghmac), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 11:59 (fourteen years ago) link

what yes of course god

coalition to me (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 12:03 (fourteen years ago) link

imo bringing someone into yr circle of friends is a really nice way of saying "hey I like and trust you here's my mates btw lets all hang".

But thats just me.

demiurge overkill (Trayce), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 12:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Meanwhile I have decided I will only date people I've gotten to know over reasonable periods of time IRL. Screw this online dating lark. RIP the OKCupid thread; ljub's about to get w/ The One, I'm retiring from active service and Lorax will just have to lump it

coalition to me (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 12:23 (fourteen years ago) link

You are quitting OKC because of the 'Bam' factor? or other reasons too?

xposts oooh really?! I am liking this advice!

The reason I was worried about asking was sending an 'I want this to be a thing' signal too early. But I guess it's not really too early.

ljubljana, Wednesday, 19 May 2010 12:26 (fourteen years ago) link

It isn't. I'm not quitting, just scaling my profile right back and making it clear I don't want to meet people from there. But the 'BAM' factor I've actually quoted in my profile, such was your glorious instance of pealing OTM

coalition to me (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 12:46 (fourteen years ago) link

i wouldn't meet anyone from an internet dating site that would have me as a member etc

May be half naked, but knows a good headline when he sees it (darraghmac), Wednesday, 19 May 2010 12:50 (fourteen years ago) link

I hate hate hate the "so you are awesome but it's not making an audible click is it?" conversation. even if it leaves everyone with plenty of opportunities to save face it makes me feel worse than having someone break things off with me.

I used to, too, so I either kept on seeing the person or - far, far more commonly - passively cut things off by not being available for future dates or by ignoring calls. These were terrible things to do because I know they were offensive and hurtful to the other person (I've been on the receiving end of this sort behavior since then) and because I felt terrible about myself for doing it.

I thought back, and a couple times a guy has told me, "I didn't feel a romantic connection (or chemistry, or whatever)" and in those instances, I was like, OK, cool. Then I put two and two together and realized that I, too could take this route!

Of the guys I've said this to, a couple are still friends, and one is a fuck-buddy. Only one got weird about it, saying "You seemed like a jerk anyway." The others responded that they agreed.

It just feels like doing the right and mature thing to be straightforward like this and others seem to appreciate it. It's like I learned a new magic trick!

fabulous mussels (Jesse), Thursday, 20 May 2010 04:24 (fourteen years ago) link

This this this! I really can't stand cut 'n run types. The sudden stopping of calls, emails, the lack of enthusiasm when you do see them. I've had male friends outright admit "I just stopped talking to her and hoped she'd get the hint".

THAT IS JUST UNACCEPTABLY, HORRIBLY CUNTISH. MAN UP YOU LOT.

demiurge overkill (Trayce), Thursday, 20 May 2010 04:36 (fourteen years ago) link

imo it's definitely the right thing to do, and I do it, and as you say results are typically positive. I just hate it and want your form letter ;-)

all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Thursday, 20 May 2010 04:50 (fourteen years ago) link

This is going to sound disgustingly earnest, but if you want a template for the good "no chemistry" letter, just write from the heart. Say what you mean.

Blurgh. While I really feel like the "form letter" is something I actually understand right now and I want to talk about it b/c it's part of a huge, uh, breakthrough(?) for me, I am about to be maudlin and gross. My boss' dog died today - this dog came in every single day and I've known her for 3 years and walked her and dog-sat her very often. I'm unable to sleep, despite I had 2 Tecates. :(

On a positive note, I went to the Thr3adl3ss retail store today and talked to a really cute guy who totally gives me the eye when I go in there, and I got his number. I'm proud of myself, and also amused/appalled at how fucking shy, silly, and goofy I get sometimes.

fabulous mussels (Jesse), Thursday, 20 May 2010 06:50 (fourteen years ago) link

thanks for the advice guys...I guess the thing is I feel like I could fuck up any potentially good relationship before it starts, and when someone 100 per cent likes me and I know I'm in control I end it at that point because I find it boring. After a while it starts to feel like your "type" is people who aren't attracted to you.

Then you think maybe that means you actually don't want a relationship.

And yeah i'm sort of unsure of which person I would be in one. I live a strange life in that I feel like at work I am one of the most enthusiastic and positive people in a really positive environment. At home sort of the opposite.

What I find weird is when you start to question whether your personality is one that is conducive to relationships. Like for all I know how I behave or who I am could be the problem, despite the fact I feel confident and feel like I can get to know people well...I guess just have to keep ploughing on regardless!

I see what this is (Local Garda), Thursday, 20 May 2010 21:43 (fourteen years ago) link

After a while it starts to feel like your "type" is people who aren't attracted to you.

Totally. (Though for a while this was actually true - when I was after straight men....)

fabulous mussels (Jesse), Thursday, 20 May 2010 21:51 (fourteen years ago) link

six months pass...

Hmm.

Dating, post-divorce. With kids. (I mean, when you have kids. Not that the kids would come on dates. Though that could be kind of funny. "Oh, hi, I brought the boys. Hope you don't mind. Would you hold this diaper bag for a minute?") I've actually already had a very nice dating experience, after my ex and I separated but before the divorce was final. It was a sort of happenstance thing, someone I kept running into and then we started going out some, and it was good in all kinds of ways. Apart from her being generally awesome, it was nice to have that first post-trauma experience. The "rebound," I guess. After a few months it reached a sort of natural end, it was hardly the time to be starting up a real relationship. And in that case, kids weren't an issue, because she had them, too.

But so now I'm sort of thinking about it more, I don't know, actively. Pondering the online options -- I have friends who have done that and some good and some bad experiences, I actually created some profiles on some of the sites but then turned them off immediately because, I don't know, it weirded me out a little to have myself out there like that. It's not like there's anyone I know who I want to ask out. One thing I'm thinking is I need to hang out at some different places than I usually do if I want to meet people other than all the same people I always see. But I'm wondering how much of an issue the whole divorced-dad-with-small-children thing will be. I guess it would just depend on the person. It's not like there's anything I can do about it, that's my life, so anyone who I got involved with would have to be okay with it. I'm definitely not looking for a replacement-mom or anything. My kids have a great mother, they don't need another one. I think I'd be very cautious about even introducing anyone to the kids until things seemed somewhat serious, or at least potentially serious. I don't want to be the divorced dad who has different people tromping in out of the kids' lives all the time.

And hell, I don't even know what I want at this point in my life, relationship-wise. I like company, somebody to do things with and be close to. But, I mean, I've been married (twice), had kids, I don't feel any particular pressure to, like, get married or to have any particular kind of relationship. I don't necessarily need someone to come home to, I live on my own pretty well. But, you know, if I met someone who wanted to have kids of their own, and do the whole nuclear-family deal, I mean, it's not anathema to me either. Part of the confusion is just my age. If I consider my dating pool to be, I don't know, people 6 or 7 years in either direction of me, that range runs from mid-30s to late 40s. (i.e., the never-married-want-children age to the twice-divorced-with-kids-in-college age).

Ah well. If my past experience is any indication, I'll spend a while trying to find someone to date, but whoever I end up with next will be someone I just sort of encounter by accident.

a tenth level which features a single castle (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 20 November 2010 14:42 (thirteen years ago) link

"Ah well. If my past experience is any indication, I'll spend a while trying to find someone to date, but whoever I end up with next will be someone I just sort of encounter by accident."

I feel exactly this way - I tried to date quite a bit this year, and it really went nowhere. I feel like I had my heart smashed to smithereens over and over again as well, because I got really invested in the idea of putting myself out there, getting my hopes up with each girl I went out with. I had this weird moment two days ago where I ran into two girls I had crushes on a few months back and I barely felt anything for them anymore. I think this is because I'm just so tired of feeling heartbroken that I don't want to risk going back to that feeling.

jeevves, Saturday, 20 November 2010 19:03 (thirteen years ago) link

Well, yeah. There is the whole risk-of-heartbreak thing. I was saying to a friend not long ago that at this point in my life -- after two divorces, which were each 9-year relationships, and some other shorter relationships -- a new relationship starts to feel a bit like getting a new pet. You know you're going to love having it, and you know it's going to die at some point. I mean, I don't completely rule out the possibility of a "lifelong relationship" of some kind, but it's sure getting harder to expect it. And it's not what I would go into anything planning on, because my experience doesn't make it seem very likely.

Still, I prefer time I spend with people I care about to time I spend wishing I was with people I care about. So, I guess ... bring on the dating. (It's going to depress me when I revive this thread in six months to say I haven't had a promising date the whole time...)

a tenth level which features a single castle (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 20 November 2010 19:37 (thirteen years ago) link

Best of luck tipsy. If my current relationship takes a dive (looking more and more possible, though not inevitable yet, and I hope it doesn't) then many of my hopes for the future depend on men in circumstances like yours not throwing in the towel!

ljubljana, Saturday, 20 November 2010 20:26 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm just so tired of feeling heartbroken that I don't want to risk going back to that feeling.

It sounds to me like you definitely need to go back to that feeling, but not by way of a new relationship so much as just going back to the memories of your previous relationship and feeling again what it was like when it happened.

By this I don't mean replaying things to figure out "what went wrong" (although some of this figuring out may happen spontaneously). I mean just steeping your heart in the sadness of it, like a teabag being dipped around in boiling water. Cry about it. Bring the heartbreak right into your heart and soul and let it live there.

Strange to say, this is a very healing thing to do when you allow it to happen. The difficulty is that nobody, but nobody, ever relishes the idea of feeling pain, so facing squarely up to it and letting it in is damned hard to do. If you decide to try this, remember to seek out people you love and trust and spend time with them while you are going through this.

Eventually you'll notice the pain becomes a piece of you that you accept - something you've absorbed into your emotional sinews. At that point you should be able to face new relationships with confidence, born from the innate knowledge that it is something entirely new and different from your old heartbreak. It will entirely kill the fear. Really.

Aimless, Saturday, 20 November 2010 20:29 (thirteen years ago) link

Thanks, this is good advice.

jeevves, Saturday, 20 November 2010 20:31 (thirteen years ago) link

xxp, thx ljubljana. and nah there'll be no towel-throwing. i like gurls too much.

a tenth level which features a single castle (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 20 November 2010 21:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah don't throw in the towel. Remember there is another subset of women in that exact age range who think "don't have kids, don't want kids, kinda relieved if man has already had their kids so no pressure on me, phew."

Karen D. Tregaskin, Saturday, 20 November 2010 23:15 (thirteen years ago) link

... and those who are happy to fully participate in the lives of their partners' kids.

ljubljana, Sunday, 21 November 2010 05:24 (thirteen years ago) link

I think part of what's weird to me about the idea of "dating" at the moment is just the sense of not having anyone particular in mind. Going out looking with no distinct aim. Thinking about my sequence of relationships (including the marriage that just ended), I realize that it's been 11 years since I wasn't either in a relationship with someone or at least had somebody in mind as a possible partner. As each relationship ended, there was always sort of somebody else there who I was interested in or who was interested in me. Right now, I know nobody who seems like a possibility, not even anyone who I'm daydreaming about. It's an unfamiliar feeling. (There were two women I sort of had in mind whose paths I had crossed in recent months, so I did discreet Facebook checking on both of them -- one is married, the other is gay. Ha.)

A friend of mine last night was giving me a big pitch on the virtues of online dating -- he's a veteran of it, and he's had lots of dates, some of them good ones. But I don't know. I did fill out an OKCupid profile, before immediately disabling it, and one depressing thing they sent me as a result was a map of the country showing the areas where I was likely to find the most or least compatible people. Not surprisingly, the "most" areas are all big cities, mostly coastal. The Southeast, where I actually live, is the "least." I'm afraid the online dating sites would mostly reflect that: lots of Republican Christian football fans.

a tenth level which features a single castle (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 21 November 2010 16:35 (thirteen years ago) link

...and that period 11 years ago was only about 8 months long, after my first divorce -- and that divorce ended a relationship that started when I was 18. So basically, that's 8 months out of the last 23 years that I haven't been either involved with someone or "pursuing" (or whatever the right word is) someone in particular. No wonder this feels so strange.

a tenth level which features a single castle (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 21 November 2010 17:10 (thirteen years ago) link

Try thinking of dating as another outlet for general socialbility and companionship. It might work. (Full disclosure: I'm just guessing here.)

Aimless, Sunday, 21 November 2010 19:39 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much how I've always met people, just by going out and hanging out with friends, etc. Even the idea of, like, going into some bar with the explicit intent of finding someone is pretty alien to me. When I'm single, I'm always much more aware of who's around, whether they're attached (getting back into the habit of automatically checking ring fingers), all of that. But it's hard for me too get psyched up and say, "OK, I'm going out tonight and I'm going to get someone's phone number," or whatever. So, who knows.

a tenth level which features a single castle (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 21 November 2010 20:23 (thirteen years ago) link

that's probably for the best, honestly - i'm kinda in the same position - feeling some vague pressure to date and "meet someone," but at the same time thinking, "You know what? I don't really need to do this right now. I've got plenty of other things I want to do."

sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link

As you get older, whole years go by in that 'transitional' mood.

Bob Six, Sunday, 21 November 2010 20:41 (thirteen years ago) link

I am older!

But sarahel otm, a big part of me does not want to spend a lot of time every day worrying about trying to meet somebody. There are plenty of things to enjoy about single life (even single-life-with-kids, because half the time I get the pleasure of their company, and half the time I can do pretty much whatever I want).

It's just, of course, those lonely nights that nag...

a tenth level which features a single castle (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 21 November 2010 20:47 (thirteen years ago) link

yeah - the last two nights, the weather was crappy and i didn't feel like going out, and it reminded me of the good parts of having an s.o.

sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 20:51 (thirteen years ago) link


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