Israel to World: "Suck It."

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"Until you love us, the beatings will continue"

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 09:38 (fourteen years ago) link

As long as there is a world wide outcry of this magnitude next time 10-19 Israelis, no fuck that, 10-19 of ANY people are killed I could be okay with this media storm.

louiiiis jjjjagger (S-), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 11:10 (fourteen years ago) link

How come the number isn't known yet?

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 11:15 (fourteen years ago) link

Yes, the Israeli government is normally so open and transparent when it comes to matters like this

Wenlock & Mandelson (Tom D.), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 11:18 (fourteen years ago) link

no, no, israel has to be 'held to a higher standard' than other countries (e.g., turkey), because it claims to be a democracy/beacon of human rights/____________

xpost

transient truff (history mayne), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 11:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Wasn't the Provisional Wing of the IRA actually supposedly fairly limited memberwise until the hunger strikes where Thatcher let them starve to death, which lead to anger in nationalist communities and a huge propaganda boost to the Provisional IRA and membership increased in great numbers.

I think you're thinking of Bloody Sunday there, not the hunger strikes, die had long been cast by then

Wenlock & Mandelson (Tom D.), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 11:24 (fourteen years ago) link

fair enough

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 11:30 (fourteen years ago) link

As long as there is a world wide outcry of this magnitude next time 10-19 Israelis, no fuck that, 10-19 of ANY people are killed it becomes clear that far more than 10-19 Gazans are living lives of grinding misery that are barely worthy of the name - as a direct result of Israel's vicelike and vindictive non-occupation - I could be okay with this media storm.

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 11:48 (fourteen years ago) link

"media storm"

Wenlock & Mandelson (Tom D.), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 11:49 (fourteen years ago) link

xps. bloody sunday boosted ira membership, made them somewhat more than a loony fringe sect. hunger strikes made Sinn Féin a mainstream political party. also probably boosted membership somewhat but the political advance was the main result.

No disre but maryanne hobbs is peng trust me (jim in glasgow), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 11:49 (fourteen years ago) link

Not sure there's a meaningful difference between being occupied and blockaded for Gaza. Actually Gaza may be worse off with the blockade since some level of trade with the outside can still take place in the occupied West Bank.

But let's not hem and haw about it. Israel is trying to break the spirit of the Gaza strip by severely limiting the flow of goods. It's not something worth defending even in a qualified way, IMO.

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 11:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Whoa:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/mossad-chief-israel-is-gradually-becoming-a-burden-on-the-u-s-1.293540
Mossad Chief: Israel is gradually becoming a burden on the U.S.

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:03 (fourteen years ago) link

Obama JAFP once again

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:04 (fourteen years ago) link

JAFP?

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:07 (fourteen years ago) link

One thing I don't understand: Why doesn't Israel just send the activists back to their home countries, deliver the aid, issue an apology and try to cool things off? Instead it seems to be aggravating things by holding them. Even if it finds legitimate evidence that a dozen of them turn out to be indirectly linked to some terrorist financier or something it's not going to do their side of the story any good.

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:12 (fourteen years ago) link

Joneses After Franka Potente?

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:13 (fourteen years ago) link

"soldiers found pistols in the hands of two of the activists who were killed, along with empty casings."

This is almost completely believable!

By the way I am beyond shocked that activists hellbent on breaking an official military blockade of Gaza might respond violently to being boarded and sabotaged by Israeli soldiers

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:19 (fourteen years ago) link

Jewish After Forming Presidency?

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Joins Assholes For Profit?

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Just Another Feeble President

Wenlock & Mandelson (Tom D.), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Jammin At Federal Plaza!

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:26 (fourteen years ago) link

By the way I am beyond shocked that activists hellbent on breaking an official military blockade of Gaza might respond violently to being boarded and sabotaged by Israeli soldiers

― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, June 1, 2010 1:19 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

i don't think anyone else is shocked by this, are they?

the whole point of the flotilla was, well, pretty much to provoke some kind of incident, yes? what with the repeated iteration that israel would maintain the blockade. and the refusal to dock at ashdod.

whether it's a good life strategy to respond violently, idk, the other boats seem to have thought otherwise, but no-one is surprised by it

transient truff (history mayne), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 12:39 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, I'd like to see that former ambassador and that Holocaust survivor beating on the IDF with clubs. Methinks they made the right decision.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 13:03 (fourteen years ago) link

history mayne - well, the IDF certainly seemed surprised and unprepared.

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 13:13 (fourteen years ago) link

wut:

A soldier identified only as a sergeant told reporters at a military briefing that the activists on board "were armed with knives, scissors, pepper spray and guns." He said he was armed only with a paintball rifle. "It was a civilian paintball gun that any 12-year-old can play with," he said. "I saw my friends on the deck spitting blood."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

James Mitchell, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 13:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Paintballing in international waters. Riiiiiiiiiight.

I eat truffle fries because my captors say they'll kill me if I don't (suzy), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 13:52 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.salon.com/news/2010/06/01/new_boat_gaza/index.html

Greta Berlin of the Free Gaza Movement, which organized the flotilla, said another cargo boat was off the coast of Italy en route to Gaza. A second boat carrying about three dozen passengers is expected to join it, Berlin said. She said the two boats would arrive in the region late this week or early next week.

"This initiative is not going to stop," she said from the group's base in Cyprus. "We think eventually Israel will get some kind of common sense. They're going to have to stop the blockade of Gaza, and one of the ways to do this is for us to continue to send the boats."

This is kinda awesome and I hope it works.

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:00 (fourteen years ago) link

From that article a week ago:

Defense Minister Ehud Barak surprised his colleagues at the meeting when he described a suggestion by journalist Eitan Haber, who reportedly proposed that the demonstrators be greeted at Ashdod by women soldiers dressed in white. They would give the activists letters destined for captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, after which their ships would be allowed to sail on to Gaza.

Another participant suggested that a collection of rockets that had been fired at the Sderot area from Gaza be put on display at Ashdod Port for the activists and foreign media to see.

The juvenile mindset here is just.. o_O

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:05 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't know about that, the second one is definitely childish but Gilad Shalit situation is tragic imho.

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:06 (fourteen years ago) link

they didnt think the "peace activists" will attack them (which was a mistake - if idf knew it will happen - they wouldnt try to take control over the ship the way they did) so they carried those paintballs.
but, they also carried pistols - for the worst case scenerio - which happened.

in retrospect, the whole thing was a big stupid mistake.

xxpost

Zeno, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Gilad Shalit situation is tragic

Sure it is. But the equation implied there, the implicit collective punishment involved, is just fucking gross.

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:09 (fourteen years ago) link

Tom D close enough on JAFP

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:10 (fourteen years ago) link

I didn't see it as a reminder that the blockade exists because of Shalit, esp since that's not the reason for the blockade. I just saw it as a sign of goodwill -- like here are the supplies, please release this dude. I think everyone agrees that Hamas's demands for releasing Shalit (releasing 1,000 convicted terrorists from prison) is pretty odious.

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:12 (fourteen years ago) link

It's like passive aggressiveness raised to Level 10.

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:23 (fourteen years ago) link

can you explain further tracer? why passive aggressive?

by another name (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link

not enough gunshots

i see you windin, grindin up on dat po'boy (crüt), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:49 (fourteen years ago) link

amateurist you don't see anything passive-aggressive about greeting pro-gaza demonstrators with female IDF soldiers dressed all in white (and presumably smiling beatifically), holding a letter to deliver to the man on whom 1000 acts of petty and not-so-petty revenge have been justified??

I mean yeah, in the end they just went with full on "aggressive", and by "aggressive" I mean "slaughter", which is more honest I guess.

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:56 (fourteen years ago) link

lol at the idea that it's better to kill a bunch of people and "be honest" than deliver letters to a prisoner in a staged event. if that's passive aggressive, would take it over actual aggressive any day.

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:59 (fourteen years ago) link

tracer: you mean it would have been dishonest to make that gesture when the blockade is so hurting the people of gaza?

by another name (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:59 (fourteen years ago) link

sorry, i wasn't arguing w/ you, just trying to understand.

by another name (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 14:59 (fourteen years ago) link

passive-aggressive shit should be considered something of a step-up (for both sides)

iatee, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 15:01 (fourteen years ago) link

the IDF certainly seemed surprised and unprepared.

― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, June 1, 2010 2:13 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

I mean yeah, in the end they just went with full on "aggressive", and by "aggressive" I mean "slaughter", which is more honest I guess.

― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:56 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

sorry, just to clarify, which is it?

transient truff (history mayne), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 15:03 (fourteen years ago) link

a - surprised
b - unprepared
c - aggressive
d - all of the above

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 15:04 (fourteen years ago) link

passive-aggressive shit should be considered something of a step-up (for both sides)

I agree! Maybe eventually Israel could just make assholish symbolic gestures their usual thing instead of illegal state killing. Think big!

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 15:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh and before anybody gets on me: YES, THE SAME GOES FOR HAMAS, TOTALLY. THEY TOO HAVE BEEN JUST TERRIBLE.

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 15:08 (fourteen years ago) link

ooh, rim-shot

transient truff (history mayne), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 15:09 (fourteen years ago) link

I still don't get what's assholish about symbolic gestures -- aren't politics 99% of the time symbolic? Isn't that kind of the point?

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 15:09 (fourteen years ago) link

I think you just answered your own question

The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 15:10 (fourteen years ago) link

Newp.

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 15:10 (fourteen years ago) link

but it wouldn't be wholly or even mostly symbolic if they actually let the aid through. it would be like a real thing with some symbolic stuff added on.

by another name (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 June 2010 15:13 (fourteen years ago) link


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