Israel to World: "Suck It."

Totally anecdotal, but my sister (who lives in Leeds, which has a pretty big Jewish population) is neither religious nor particularly political, but she has noticed at the least the very awkward treatment of Jews or Judaism in the UK, vis a vis the media or just in everyday life. Like, just weird stuff (not unlike my small town West Virginia roommate one summer in college, who upon hearing I was Jewish responded innocently with "hey, that's cool," as if I needed to be reassured). Not unlike the experience of my SIL in Sydney. Australia may be very secular, and as far as minorities go there are more Muslims than Jews, but come Christmas time everyone is expected to wear red and white and green at schools and participate in the pageants. It's not anti-Semitic so much as blissfully unaware of PC tact re: non-Christians. I mean, as far as The Other goes, Muslims have it much worse throughout Europe, but what some read as latent Euro anti-Semitism is perhaps what my sister sees as just this pervasive awkwardness.

x-post, I suppose.

Legal update for Darragh:

- definitely not piracy. Piracy is private individuals attacking ships. This was a state act. Calling it piracy is just an attempt to attach a very nasty name to a not-quite-so-nasty thing (cf 'apartheid wall', 'zionism = racism', 'harvesting organs'). That shit really pisses me off - it's not like there's nothing to get stuck into, but it just makes sensible argument impossible.

- otherwise, I still think this post is mostly right. When it comes to self-defence, you'll have to watch the videos yourself. I'd say the right question is - at that exact moment, were the protestors/commandos entitled to use the force they did as a necessary way of preventing physical harm? Rights or wrongs of boarding not relevant here.

- An equally valid conclusion would be: boarding was probably illegal - but not very illegal, as the ship was clearly going into territorial waters shortly, and who's going to be policeman here anyway? Turkey have locus to be annoyed as it was their ship and their jurisdiction. Everyone else less so.

Ta, will take more time to digest that later on.

apparently one of the dead activists is an american citizen?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/03/AR2010060301931.html?hpid=topnews

Why is it taking so long for the dead to be named? Or is ^ that why?

Netanyahu called the criticism "hypocrisy" and described Gaza, where 1.5 million people live in a narrow slice of dunes and refugee camps between southern Israel and the sea, as "a terror state funded by the Iranians."

The fact that Iran funds and arms Hamas is not really in dispute, nor is the fact that Hamas commits acts of terrorism. Does that make Gaza a "terror state"? I don't know. I mean it seems to rationalize collective punishment of Gazans. But it's not like he's just making shit up so much as framing things in a way that allows him to justify Israel's actions more easily.

it's kind of easy to find dickish statements from both sides. grim irony in netanyahu calling gaza a state (debatable) where as hamas doesn't recognize israel as such

has this one been posted yet: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/06/02/eu_gaza_ships_terror_ties/index.html ?

seems a bit tenuous, but the charity was p thick w. hamas already, not big news

Thinking that Turkey is not a great country to fall out with, strikes me that they're the types to hold grudges

three hundred years of bad folk music says they're not the only ones

So now there are reports that HAMAS is refusing to let the aid from the flotilla in - they apparently want all of it or nothing.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-blocking-entry-of-flotilla-aid-into-gaza-1.293943

Hamas will not allow goods from an aid flotilla raided by Israel to enter the blockaded Gaza Strip, a spokesman for the Islamist organization said Thursday.

Ahmed al-Kurd, Social Welfare Minister in the Hamas government which rules Gaza, said Hamas would block the aid cargo until Israel met all of the group's conditions.

Israel must release all of the activists detained after Israel's interception of the Gaza-bound convoy and transfer all, not just part, of the seized cargo, Kurd said.

fwiw, according to the article there are only three activists still being detained, aside from a handful who are being treated for wounds

I think you'll find this really explains everything.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs332.snc3/29221_409409697584_33172352584_4296964_4852823_n.jpg

That looks like a sweet video game

Andrew Exum:

http://cnas.org/blogs/abumuqawama/2010/06/two-thoughts-israel.html

Last fall, I was in Israel for a two-week visit and conducted a few formal interviews with various Israeli officers, journalists and scholars. I met for coffee one morning with a retired Israeli general officer to discuss the fighting in southern Lebanon during the 1990s, and before too long, the two of us were engrossed in conversation about guerrilla warfare, Lebanon, the learning process that militaries go through in combat, and a host of related subjects. One hour became two, and two hours became three. The two of us must have downed three cups of coffee apiece, and my hand cramped from all the notes I was taking. At the end of the conversation, though, this retired officer took my hand, squeezed it hard, and said, "Andrew, just remember one thing: the Muslims are like shit. They stink, and there are plenty of them for all of us."

hell of a week for spencer ackerman to go on vacation, but he's got a post up too

http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2010/06/03/the-lost-decade-strategy-for-an-illiberal-israel/

4 close-range shots to the head and one to the chest.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/american-killed-gaza-aid-flotilla/story?id=10814848
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/03/american-reportedly-killed-gaza-flotilla-raid/

"They [Israeli commandos] were trying to land on the boat. So obviously there was this hand-to-hand combat and during that process the people on the boat were basically able to disarm some of the soldiers because they did have guns with them," Burney told Reuters. "So they basically took the guns away from them and took the cartridges out and threw them away."

Asked if anyone had used the guns against the Israeli commandos, Burney said, "No, not at all."

"Yes, we took their guns. It would be self defence even if we fired their guns," Bulent Yildirim, chairman of the IHH, said.

"We told our friends on board we will die, become martyrs, but never let us be shown... as the ones who used guns," he said, adding that people shouted that the weapons should not be used.

"By this decision, our friends accepted death, and we threw all the guns we took from them into the sea," Yildirim said.

Part of me wonders why, if this was "self defense," nothing happened on the other five boats that soldiers landed on. But I guess the soldiers on this boat could also have done something differently than the soldiers on the other five boats? Who the fuck knows - the competing narratives will be shaped to their respective agendas and few people will care much about getting a fully accurate picture.

Last fall, I was in Israel for a two-week visit and conducted a few formal interviews with various Israeli officers, journalists and scholars. I met for coffee one morning with a retired Israeli general officer to discuss the fighting in southern Lebanon during the 1990s, and before too long, the two of us were engrossed in conversation about guerrilla warfare, Lebanon, the learning process that militaries go through in combat, and a host of related subjects. One hour became two, and two hours became three. The two of us must have downed three cups of coffee apiece, and my hand cramped from all the notes I was taking. At the end of the conversation, though, this retired officer took my hand, squeezed it hard, and said, "Andrew, just remember one thing: the Muslims are like shit. They stink, and there are plenty of them for all of us."

What was the point of this?

From the same piece:

This flip side to these stories would be the many conversations I have had with Israeli officers -- including some very impressive public affairs and combat arms officers -- who managed not to go off on anti-Muslim or anti-Arab riffs during their conversations with me, even after several rounds of beer or wine.

So I guess the point is that there are assholes everywhere.

I can think of another flip side.

the point was pretty banal -- exum has run into a significant amount of basic anti-arab racism in the israeli military. it's just a common feature of any military -- i'm sure, for all our humanitarian intent in afghanistan, if you talked to any US officer for more than half an hour you'll hear things about afghans that are less than humanitarian.

this was the key sentence really:

I left my most recent research trip to Israel, though, openly wondering a) whether or not anti-Arab or anti-Muslim sentiment was widespread within the officer corps and whether that might have an effect on Israeli operations in the territories and b) whether or not a) was true, whether or not Israel would ever be able to effectively carry out information operations with officers so willing to say crazy stuff to a researcher with an open notebook and a tape recorder.

and yeah that's to say nothing of what your average captain in the palestinian security services thinks of jews.

a) whether or not anti-Arab or anti-Muslim sentiment was widespread within the officer corps and whether that might have an effect on Israeli operations in the territories

how stupid do you have to be to not guess the answer to this question

I think that might just be an example of him not making assumptions about a likely, but still touchy, subject. It's a way of politely making the point without stating it crudely.

LOL @ today's headline in one of the Belgian papers: ISRAEL ENTERS IRISH SHIP WITHOUT VIOLENCE

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=F2ktAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9YkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2900%2C1556272

Just came across this old article from the Schenectady Gazette. The terrorist is pretty cute - plus she was for women's lib!

so, Chomsky barred from entering the West Bank to give a lecture; E. Costello cancels summer shows in Israel.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2010/0519/Elvis-Costello-Noam-Chomsky-and-Israel-Who-s-in-Who-s-out

i would love to hear the reason chomsky wasn't allowed to speak

Here's the NY Times piece about it, from a few weeks ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/world/middleeast/18chomsky.html

Serious answer, probably has to do with his meetings with Hezbollah.

“There were two basic points,” Professor Chomsky told the interviewer. “One was that the government of Israel does not like the kinds of things I say — which puts them into the category of I suppose every other government in the world. The second was that they seemed upset about the fact that I was just taking an invitation from Birzeit and I had no plans to go on to speak in Israeli universities, as I have done many times in the past, but not this time.”

This is kinda dishonest, and sounds a lot like Bush saying that they hate our freedom. There are lots of Jews living in Israel just as critical of Israel as Chomsky. He's giving himself way too much credit if he thinks the only problem is that the government "does not like the kinds of things I say," and has nothing to do with the people he fraternizes with. (Note: Not making any judgement about whether meeting with Hezbollah should or shouldn't exclude you from entering Israel, but clearly that has more to do with it than he gave a lecture someone didn't like.)

i'm not familiar with chomsky's relationship with hezbollah but yeah like you said it's obv not a legitimate reason to not allow him to speak

“This is a decision of principle between the democratic ideal — and we all want freedom of speech and movement — and the need to protect our existence,” said Otniel Schneller, of the centrist Kadima party, on Israel Radio. “Let’s say he came to lecture at Birzeit. What would he say? That Israel kills Arabs, that Israel is an apartheid state?”

wtf at mordy's whole post.

k3v asked why he's not being allowed into Israel. I'm speculating that the reason isn't some vague 'they didn't like what I said,' but probably had to do with the multiple times he's met with Hezbollah leadership. I guess that's kinda confusing tho. It's probably just because Chomsky is too righteous to be let into Israel.

like, since you obv. read the article in order to pull the quote, i don't know where to start. he's recounting what he was told, no one seems even to dispute it, (Netanyahu: "This was a mishap. A guy at the border overstepped his authority."), ppl have been discussing it in Israel as controversial, & some conservatives are a-okay with it.

He's disagreeing with Bibi afaict. Bibi says some dude overstepped his boundaries, Chomsky says he overheard dude talking to superiors. Also, they kept Finkelstein out for the same reason, so I find it hard to imagine that has nothing to do with it. Also! Lots of people says things controversial about Israel and are still allowed in. So I'm just speculating that Chomsky is leaving shit out. So he-said, she-said tho. Who knows what the real real reason was? Maybe some dude was just cranky that day.

Also interesting note that the conservative quoted as liking him being kept out is a member of Kadima. (Don't know the particular guy tho, he might be a particularly conservative Kadima.)

Btw zvookster, from Haaretz:

The official asked him whether he would speak on Israel and Chomsky said that because he would talk of U.S. policy he would also comment on Israel and its policies.

He was then told by the official: "You have spoken with [Hassan] Nasrallah."

"True," Chomsky told him. "When I was in Lebanon [prior to the war in 2006] I spoke with people from the entire political spectrum there, as in Israel I also spoke with people on the right."

Tada!

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/after-denied-entry-to-west-bank-chomsky-likens-israel-to-stalinist-regime-1.290736

mordy what do you think about that reason

Mordy: chomksy said “There were two basic points,” If you think there was one basic point, then you think chomsky was was lying, not "being kinda dishonest". you'd also be saying he was lying just out of nowhere. your post was nonsense.

Tbh, zvookster, I hadn't seen the Haaretz story when I wrote that. So it seemed kinda weird to me that he wasn't mentioning what seemed like an obvious reason. He obv mentioned it to Haaretz. I have no idea if NY Times just didn't bother mentioning it, or he didn't bother mentioning it to them.

k3v: I don't really care who he meets with. He's a respected enough linguist that I'm okay with him going wherever he wants. I happen to find a lot of his political analysis really superficial (tho he's consistent, at least. he's not pro boycotting Israeli universities because he feels that if you boycott Bar Ilan you should boycott American universities too), but my judgement on his political prowess should have nothing to do with where he goes. That said, I would expect Israel to not let him in for meeting with Hezbollah -- that just seems like the kind of thing that they do. If they end up letting him in, I'll be pretty impressed. It seems to me that if you meet with Hezbollah, you should expect some resistance from places like Israel. The whole wide-eyed "I can't believe it!" kinda blows my mind, but I guess I expected less of Israeli border than Chomsky did.

Like there are people who aren't allowed in El Al all the time because they don't answer the boarding questions sufficiently (on my last trip to Israel they asked people all kinds of questions -- did you have a bar mitzvah? name three jewish holidays, stuff like that). Plenty of people aren't allowed to visit for much, much less than meeting with Hezbollah.

the "i can't believe it" is imo not fake surprise, but just that he expects to have free speech in a place like israel, which supposedly supports speech, and he's trying to draw attention to that. obv the fact that it's somewhat expected for the country to deny him entry based on political views or who he's met with is problematic xp