Spike Lee: Dud or DUD?!?

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Spike Lee seems to think that really slow, unfunny skits about chicken stealing would do really well with white people at the dawn of the 21st century

So, I guess a fast one like the one that was about minstrelry on Chapelle last night is ok though? It's the slow ones that ppl are not responding to?

Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Who said it was OK? I'm just saying that the racism has to be incorporated into other aspects of entertainment, and the material shown in Bamboozled was painfully unentertaining. If he had thrown blackface on top of good slapstick (the Bugs Bunny vs. dumb black farmer cartoon was turned into an Elmer Fudd one and was still plenty popular), then you'd actually have something that could actually be popular, and show the insidious nature of it. But what he did was way more "you people are idiots" rather than "this is how people are made to accept racism as mere entertainment."

Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:36 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm just saying that the racism has to be incorporated into other aspects of entertainment, and the material shown in Bamboozled was painfully unentertaining.

So I guess you've not watched Mind of Mencia, either.

Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh god. Touche.

Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 July 2006 13:39 (seventeen years ago) link

We were watching a best-or retrospective of the Boston Pops while were packing for our most recent Christmas vacation and, sandwiched in amongst a bunch of standard Pops segments, was a song-and-dance routine done by a guy in blackface to "Waiting On The Robert E Lee" that was obviously filmed in the mid-70s and presented with neither introduction nor context beyond "we think this is one of the best things the Boston Pops have ever done". It is probably the most horriying thing I've ever seen on television and it came across EXACTLY like the skits in "Bamboozled".

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Friday, 21 July 2006 14:01 (seventeen years ago) link

So basically I think your thesis is bullshit, A.

(Also Carlos Mencia is really fucking odd because he's aggresively unfunny but there is an aspect to what he's saying that strikes my "OTM!" button sometimes; there's an entire routine he does in his standup about being uncomfortable doing a show for an audience full of Down's Syndrome patients that is an extended riff on the idea of "if you can't say something about a group of people to someone from that group of people, the thing you're trying to say is not at joke", a sentiment I agree with but GOD WHY CAN'T YOU BE FUNNY WITH YOUR "JOKES", YOU GIGANTIC BAG OF DOUCHE)

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Friday, 21 July 2006 14:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Because why come up with something at all funny or interesting to say when you can just scream "HAHA I'M A BEANER" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and people will still pay you to do it because they gotta do something to fill the void left when Chapelle lost his shit?

Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Friday, 21 July 2006 14:11 (seventeen years ago) link

ugh Mencia is the worst.

Bamboozled is totally incoherent, it actually made me feel kinda bad for Spike that he had made such an amateurish mess. I didn't even make it all the way to the end for the "payoff".

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 July 2006 14:48 (seventeen years ago) link

the fashion sense on display in Jungle Fever has forced it to age very badly, unfortunately. it's kinda unwatchable because unlike New Jack City you can't really haw-haw at the haircuts and appreciate the story at the same time.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 21 July 2006 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

mencia isn't even mexican, dudes.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 July 2006 15:36 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah I think Mencia is falling into exactly the rut that made Chapelle quit. I see what Dan is saying sometimes, that he's smarter than the jokes he does on his show, like a lot of the "lost chappelle" material so far. The "Ethnic Slot" on comedy central keeps making me think about how the first time Paul Mooney said his line about the script he wrote for Stephen King, and thought well that's pushing it, isn't it? And then I realize no, that's exactly why Chapelle had to quit and why Mencia pointedly avoids exceeding his IQ quota on his show.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 21 July 2006 15:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't care what he is, he can't write/tell a joke. He's like Colin Quinn + racial humor.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 July 2006 15:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Comedy Central to brown people: "We want to see, like, Blue Collar TV, but with non-whites. Mostly."

Stephen Colbert's interview with Julian Bond last night pwnz all, BTW.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 21 July 2006 15:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I'll finish derailing the thread in a second. "we could make three hundred white pixie skits, would it change anything?"

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 21 July 2006 15:45 (seventeen years ago) link

OMG the Julian Bond segment was GREAT, totally took me by surprise.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 July 2006 15:47 (seventeen years ago) link

So basically I think your thesis is bullshit, A.

I just think there was more to the popularity of minstrelsy than the joy of watching people stand around in blackface. Emmett Miller, Al Jolson, etc - people who were talented but exploiters of a very fucked up culture. The movie kinda missed that (some of the Savion Glover stuff got near it), and gave an out to folks who love all kinds of modern racist shit but would never watch what was on that Mantan show. God help me for quoting him, but Ebert's review gets at the point pretty well ("To satirize black shows on TV, Lee should have stayed closer to what really offends him; I think his fundamental miscalculation was to use blackface itself. He overshoots the mark. Blackface is so blatant, so wounding, so highly charged, that it obscures any point being made by the person wearing it. The makeup is the message."). Admittedly, if you think that white people just eat up any racist shit they can get (which could definitely be argued), then this means nothing.

Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link

A friend at work told me about some Mencia stand-up routine where he pointed out that a lot of comedians end with a big joke, but how that isn't real, how that isn't like life, so he just put the mic down, pumped his fist on chest and walked away. The audience gave him a standing ovation.

Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:07 (seventeen years ago) link

"real"

what an idiot.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:09 (seventeen years ago) link

cuz chest-thumping is so much more "like real life" than, oh, I dunno, actually developing decent material

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:10 (seventeen years ago) link

I think the fashion is my second favorite thing about Jungle Fever after Wesley Snipes

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Did anyone watch Spike's lesbian impregnation-cum-Enron movie? I don't think it even opened in the art house theaters here.

milo z (mlp), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:38 (seventeen years ago) link

The fact that Mencia isn't (fill in the blank) doesn't stop the fact that 99% of his jokes seem to end in the word "beaner," does it, Joel? WTF point are you trying to make, unless the point is that it actually makes it worse than what occurs in Bamboozled, in which case I apologize for "WTFing" you.

Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:39 (seventeen years ago) link

anyone see sasha/borat's bit where he goes to a country bar and performs an anti-semitic folk song and they eat it up?

gear (gear), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:44 (seventeen years ago) link

allyzay, dude is half-german, half-paraguayan or something. not mexican. but i guess us white folx can't tell the difference!

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

dude actually was born in Honduras to a Mexican mom and raised in East LA

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link

But Colin Quinn did make racial 'humor.'

deej.. (deej..), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link

THROW THE JEW DOWN THE WELL
SO MY PEOPLE WILL BE FREE

BORAT (nickalicious), Friday, 21 July 2006 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

IN MY COUNTRY WE HAVE PROBLEM

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 21 July 2006 18:53 (seventeen years ago) link

ok Joel I'm going to spell this out reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal slowly for you:

1) Have you watched Mind of Mencia?
2) If you have, have you noticed that a rather significant portion of his jokes are about Mexicans?
3) And, by Mexicans, do you realize I don't mean "Hispanics" but rather specifically "Beaners" and "Wetbacks" and "Mexicans" (Mencia's own words)?

In other words, if you don't have an actual point to make besides vague random accusations of ppl not "understanding" that Mencia himself is not a Mexican (it's not even the dude's real last name. I know! I read boing boing too etc), can you please go back to ranting about Israel?

Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Friday, 21 July 2006 19:06 (seventeen years ago) link

also thank you gabbneb but Mencia's actual background is besides the point I was making which was rather about unfunny minstrel acts (and claiming that Mencia is a faux Mexican would actually make it worse than the situation depicted by Lee but the problem is, not that a specific individual poster is reading the posts being made here, that I already said this and you knew that).

Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Friday, 21 July 2006 19:07 (seventeen years ago) link

BTW I was fucking offended my dave chappelle's whiteface rendition of The Reflex.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 21 July 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

I forgot about She Hate Me. Spike Lee makes some weird movies. Even the bad ones (i.e. Girl 6) coast on weirdness.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 21 July 2006 21:28 (seventeen years ago) link

she hate me is SO weird.

s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 21 July 2006 21:40 (seventeen years ago) link

also is it just me or does every single Spike Lee movie climax with someone getting killed? Its like he doesn't know any other way to end a story.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 July 2006 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

(I can't remember how Mo Betta Blues ends...)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 July 2006 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link

well not ending the movie after someone gets killed is kind of disrespectful.

not the world i want to live in (tremendoid), Friday, 21 July 2006 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

also I wish he would make that black sci-fi film he's always threatened to make. I can't believe no one's ever attempted to really make a good one ("Space is the Place" possibly excepted - and the "Adventures of Pluto Nash" doesn't fucking count!)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 July 2006 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

'threatened' is right, he'd kill the genre in the womb.

tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 21 July 2006 21:52 (seventeen years ago) link

well I don't think the Wayans bros or John Singleton are gonna make it.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 July 2006 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link

well that's that

tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 21 July 2006 22:27 (seventeen years ago) link

(i wish that was sarcasm)

tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 21 July 2006 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

john carpenter should.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 22 July 2006 01:16 (seventeen years ago) link

the minstrelsy bits in bamboozled always seemed to me like there was some kind of ironic distance about them within the world of the film (and this ironic distance didn't seem to be between the film and the audience of the film, either.) i can't remember exactly, it's been a while, but the suggestion was there that the performers and the audience were entering into some kind of contract that of-course-this-is-how-people-used-to-think.

which is weird, given how no character in the movie raises that. like it was left behind in another draft. because a movie about the insidiousness of that idea might fall down less often than bamboozled does.

(note that apart from the burnt cork the minstrel show in bamboozled is not very similar at all to an actual 1800s minstrel show.) (the videotape at the end suggests that at least someone must have realised that, even if lee didn't.) (or maybe lee did and we're indulging in unproductive readings of the movie.)

one thing i would say, the framing of the shots + the editing = pretty uniformly ugly. compared to the only other two spike lee films i've seen, very much so.

tom west (thomp), Saturday, 22 July 2006 02:27 (seventeen years ago) link

(i was hoping from the thread revival there was a new one! oh well, gives me more time to catch on the other dozen or so ...)

tom west (thomp), Saturday, 22 July 2006 02:28 (seventeen years ago) link

see, that's what i was trying to figure out. the whole movie looks horrible except for the minstrel show part which actually looks pretty cool and i was trying to understand what the meaning of this was. and that's why i wondered if the whole movie - which feels pretty improvisational to me script-wise. it's not a well-written movie by any stretch of the imagination and feels kinda made up on the fly- was just an excuse to film that part. which is crazy, i suppose. and i was drunk when i thought of it. but the show is so divorced from the rest of the movie. and the message is such an obvious one to begin with. "people enjoy stereotypes and a lot of popular entertainment cynically plays on people's racism and fear of black hats" etc, etc. fear of a black hat did it much better come to think of it. he really is a weird dude. which is why i dig his movies. i dig weirdos.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 22 July 2006 03:00 (seventeen years ago) link

okay, obviously the show wasn't "divorced" from the rest of the movie. the whole movie was about the show. i just meant the look of it. the whole movie looked crummy and the show was all shiny. which i guess was his point. the world is crummy and we are fed shiny toxic stuff that is bad for us. i just felt like he has made the same point in better ways in the past. he can be ham-fisted though. and obvious. but it usually doesn't bother me. the malt liquor thing in clockers is a good example. there are others. but he's cool by me. i loved summer of sam. and, yeah, crooklyn, what a good movie. i went to a test screening of clockers in philly. that was fun. he tests all his movies in philly.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 22 July 2006 03:15 (seventeen years ago) link

eight months pass...
anti-semitism: Dud or DUD?!?

gershy, Saturday, 24 March 2007 17:44 (seventeen years ago) link

YOU KNOW WHAT WAS REALLY ANTI-SEMITIC WAS THE WAY INSIDE MAN SYMPATHIZED SO HEAVILY WITH CHRISTOPHER PLUMMER'S NAZI CHARACTER

max, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:25 (seventeen years ago) link

you should know mo' better

gershy, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:36 (seventeen years ago) link


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