Capital Punishment: Should the Death Penalty Still Exist In A 'Civilised Society'?

In which case, the fault would appear to not solely be the murderers', strange to say.

i hate to joke about this stuff, but has anyone seen a picture of the cells there? its almost as bad as a studio apartment in manhattan.

xpost Impartiality is virtually impossible to begin with on any high profile case; the only answer to that is to shut down the press completely on reporting crime--whether or not the cop said a damn thing, people still could read the story and see for themselves that it is an absolutely horrific case, so I don't see how the cop per se is causing a problem for the prosecution.

my brain is addled from too much cream of broccoli soup.

hstencil: ok, that's kind of what i was thinking. got ya.

xxx-post

Yeah.

If you kill someone with a baseball bat, does it really make the crime any more heinous if you also smash the teeth into tiny pieces? I mean presumably the people were long dead by the time they got finished with all the teeth, right? Sure, it indicates some kind of insane rage, but is it really a more heinous crime that your regular run-of-the-mill death-by-bludgeoning?

Anyway I think there are two ways to look at why that's an indicator of it being "different": the insane rage part. It indicates, I suppose, either the person is completely insane and mentally ill (well, I guess you'd have to be but hopefully you know what I mean), which I guess would actually make them ineligible for the death penalty. Or it implies they just really get off on torture and abuse and death, which is really heinous. Run-of-the-mill bludgeoning/shooting/etc you still have that possibility of like heat-of-the-moment or OMG that was actually a one time thing, I think, in some people's minds...

Of course the whole dynamic is fucked because I think getting off on bashing in people's teeth with baseball bats IS a sign of being completely mentally ill so the whole "mental illness" conundrum is a false one.

TOMBOT, aren't you being a little defeatist?

it happens, sometimes.

xpost

Meanwhile, having read a book last week about Stalin's time in Russia and the millions dead there thanks to him, I will more than happily concede that I'm rather glad to be here now rather than there then, for instance. At the same time, it reaffirmed the sheer unabiding hatred I can have for the species as a whole -- but that in turn fighting against the death penalty is a way to sublimate that hatred and turn something positive out of it. There have been enough horrors committed in this world already, I am not keen to add more fuel to the fire.

I think my conception of society -- not something I've reflected on much, so this will be a brief teasing out -- is less one of place and role as it is of existence.

Maybe Jesus is one of the highest profile defeatists ever (cf "You'll always have the poor.").

Well yeah, if your concept of ethics involves maximising utility how is considering the benefit to society some misleading separate issue to this, is all I meant.

I dunno, I don't think she stabbed anyone.

word

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/08/lunsford/index.html

When will America's bloodlust ever end??? It's a mockery of everything God stands for when a modern society kills its own citizens! Oh where oh where is the humanity!

By Susan Kuczka and Lisa Black
Tribune staff reporters
Published May 11, 2005, 1:30 PM CDT

Bond was denied today for a 34-year-old Zion man who allegedly admitted he punched his daughter because she refused to come home with him, punched her friend who came to her aid then repeatedly stabbed the children, killing them.

"This was a slaughter of two little girls," Lake County Assistant State's Atty. Jeffrey Pavletic said.

Jerry Branton Hobbs III, 34, released from a Texas prison less than a month ago, faces two counts of first-degree murder in the stabbing and beating deaths Sunday of his daughter, Laura Hobbs, 8, and her best friend, Krystal Tobias, 9.

Hobbs is being held in Lake County Jail. His next court date is June 9.

Speaking at a news conference following this morning's bond hearing in Waukegan, Pavletic said, "You can see from the injuries to these individuals the rage that was exhibited."

"Laura had 20 stab wounds. She was stabbed in the neck, she was stabbed in the abdomen, she was stabbed once in each eye," Pavletic said.

One thrust went so deep into Laura's neck, the knife struck the child's spine, he said.

"Krystal had also been stabbed, 11 times," the prosecutor said. "She had been stabbed in the neck and stabbed in the abdomen as well."

In a statement to investigators, Hobbs allegedly admitted being angry that Laura's mother, Sheila Hollabaugh, was supposedly letting the child off easily for having taken a small amount of money from her last week.

He said he went looking for her between 4:30 and 7 p.m. Sunday and found the child and her friend in a wooded area north of Beulah Park in north suburban Zion, Pavletic said.

Hobbs ordered his daughter to come home with him, the prosecutor said. When Laura refused, he allegedly punched her at least twice, knocking her down. When Krystal came to her friend's aid, Hobbs allegedly punched her, too.

The defendant told investigators Krystal pulled what the suspect called a "potato knife"—believed to be Texas slang for a small knife with a blade 4- to 6-inches long, Pavletic said.

Hobbs allegedly said he grabbed the knife, killed the youngsters and dragged their bodies to a wooded area of Beulah Park. Their bodies later were found, faces beaten and bloodied, lying side by side with their shoes neatly placed next to them. Hobbs then went home, got alcohol and tried to clean himself off, prosecutors said.

Prosecutors were skeptical a young girl would have been carrying a weapon or that either child posed a physical threat to Hobbs.

"This guy is approximately 6 feet 1, and you're talking about 8- or 9-year-old girls," Lake County State's Atty. Michael Waller said.

Later Sunday evening, after family members reported the two girls missing, Hobbs joined police and volunteers searching all night for them. He supposedly was the first person to find the bodies about 6 a.m. Monday.

In subsequent interviews with police, investigators became suspicious when the man told them he approached no closer than 20 feet to the bodies, yet gave details that someone standing from far away could not have seen.

Hobbs also allegedly did not display the grief police expected him to show about the loss of one of his children.

Under questioning, the man eventually admitted killing the children, giving investigators an oral confession and a videotaped and written statement, prosecutors said.

stfu stormy davis

2004 was a weird year