Katrina's aftermath

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"And God said, 'Only punish the baritone. I'll deal with the rest later.'"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:08 (eighteen years ago) link

i wonder how less the media would care about this if it was just a bunch of random coastal towns in mississippi instead of the sophisticated yankee tourist destination of new orleans

3, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:08 (eighteen years ago) link

ALOT LESS

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:09 (eighteen years ago) link

i can picture lots of smug new england democrat jokes about god punishing the bush voting states

3, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:09 (eighteen years ago) link

i can picture lots of smug new england democrat jokes about god punishing the bush voting states

I think a few have gone around already. Fuckers.

And yeah, Don just posted on ILM, so that's cool.

Here's hoping Fetchboy gets the news and gets out -- again, he's in the best place to be comparatively speaking, but remember he's also keeping an eye on his grandpa.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:10 (eighteen years ago) link

ahh but n'awlins, so cultured, so french

3, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Am I the only one who can't stop hearing a certain drum break in my head when I read about this?

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:11 (eighteen years ago) link

One of my coworkers' has lots of family in Gulfport. Last she heard everyone got out but she hasn't heard from them since Sunday evening for any further word.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:11 (eighteen years ago) link

is lott really the baritone?

3, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Imagine if. (I had a one in four chance.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:13 (eighteen years ago) link

>i wonder how less the media would care about this if it was just a bunch of random coastal towns in mississippi instead of the sophisticated yankee tourist destination of new orleans<

Well, given the fact that there's 1.3 million people in the New Orleans metro area, and there's 2.6 million in the entire state of Mississippi, I'd say you're comparing apples and oranges. Of course they're going to give more coverage since it hit New Orleans: It has the capacity of being the biggest disaster since 9/11, if not having a death toll *exceeding* that. If it was going to hit Houston, and Houston happened to be poorly designed as well and the possibility of it flooding everything and killing the entire populace was there, you can bet your ass the non-destination of Houston would get just as much interest.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:14 (eighteen years ago) link

(I mean, I get that at this point your purpose here is trolling for responses, 3, but hey, go right ahead. I'm done with this. no one else at this point seems to mind)

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:14 (eighteen years ago) link

3 and blount and ned: there was lots of ivan coverage up here in sophisticated yankee-land, when orange beach and gulf shores and pensacola got smoked. new orleans is the biggest city on the coast so of course it's going to get the most coverage, "lib'ul media" conspiracy theories notwithstanding.

two illuminating articles:

When the levee breaks [from www.pnionline.com]

It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.

-- Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; New Orleans Times-Picayune, June 8, 2004.

This picture is an aerial view of New Orleans today, more than 14 months later. Even though Hurricane Katrina has moved well north of the city and the sun is out, the waters continue to rise in New Orleans as we write this. That's because Lake Pontchartrain continues to pour through a two-block-long break in the main levee, near the city's 17th Street Canal. With much of the Crescent City some 10 feet below sea level, the rising tide may not stop until until it's level with the massive lake.

There have been numerous reports of bodies floating in the poorest neighborhoods of this poverty-plagued city, but the truth is that the death toll may not be known for days, because the conditions continue to frustrate rescue efforts.

New Orleans had long known it was highly vulnerable to flooding and a direct hit from a hurricane. In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.

Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.

Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars. (Much of the research here is from Nexis, which is why some articles aren't linked.)

In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to this Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness:

The $750 million Lake Pontchartrain and Vicinity Hurricane Protection project is another major Corps project, which remains about 20% incomplete due to lack of funds, said Al Naomi, project manager. That project consists of building up levees and protection for pumping stations on the east bank of the Mississippi River in Orleans, St. Bernard, St. Charles and Jefferson parishes.

The Lake Pontchartrain project is slated to receive $3.9 million in the president's 2005 budget. Naomi said about $20 million is needed.

"The longer we wait without funding, the more we sink," he said. "I've got at least six levee construction contracts that need to be done to raise the levee protection back to where it should be (because of settling). Right now I owe my contractors about $5 million. And we're going to have to pay them interest."

That June, with the 2004 hurricane seasion starting, the Corps' Naomi went before a local agency, the East Jefferson Levee Authority, and essentially begged for $2 million for urgent work that Washington was now unable to pay for. From the June 18, 2004 Times-Picayune:

"The system is in great shape, but the levees are sinking. Everything is sinking, and if we don’t get the money fast enough to raise them, then we can’t stay ahead of the settlement," he said. "The problem that we have isn’t that the levee is low, but that the federal funds have dried up so that we can’t raise them."

The panel authorized that money, and on July 1, 2004, it had to pony up another $250,000 when it learned that stretches of the levee in Metairie had sunk by four feet. The agency had to pay for the work with higher property taxes. The levee board noted in October 2004 that the feds were also now not paying for a hoped-for $15 million project to better shore up the banks of Lake Pontchartrain.

The 2004 hurricane season, as you probably recall, was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane- and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history. Because of the proposed cuts, the Corps office there imposed a hiring freeze. Officials said that money targeted for the SELA project -- $10.4 million, down from $36.5 million -- was not enough to start any new jobs. According to New Orleans CityBusiness this June 5:

The district has identified $35 million in projects to build and improve levees, floodwalls and pumping stations in St. Bernard, Orleans, Jefferson and St. Charles parishes. Those projects are included in a Corps line item called Lake Pontchartrain, where funding is scheduled to be cut from $5.7 million this year to $2.9 million in 2006. Naomi said it's enough to pay salaries but little else.

"We'll do some design work. We'll design the contracts and get them ready to go if we get the money. But we don't have the money to put the work in the field, and that's the problem," Naomi said.

There was, at the same time, a growing recognition that more research was needed to see what New Orleans must do to protect itself from a Category 4 or 5 hurricane. But once again, the money was not there. As the Times-Picayune reported last Sept. 22:

That second study would take about four years to complete and would cost about $4 million, said Army Corps of Engineers project manager Al Naomi. About $300,000 in federal money was proposed for the 2005 fiscal-year budget, and the state had agreed to match that amount.

But the cost of the Iraq war forced the Bush administration to order the New Orleans district office not to begin any new studies, and the 2005 budget no longer includes the needed money, he said.

The Senate was seeking to restore some of the SELA funding cuts for 2006. But now it's too late. One project that a contractor had been racing to finish this summer was a bridge and levee job right at the 17th Street Canal, site of the main breach. The levee failure appears to be causing a human tragedy of epic proportions:

"We probably have 80 percent of our city under water; with some sections of our city the water is as deep as 20 feet. Both airports are underwater," Mayor Ray Nagin told a radio interviewer.

Washington knew that this day could come at any time, and it knew the things that needed to be done to protect the citizens of New Orleans. But in the tradition of the riverboat gambler, the Bush administration decided to roll the dice on its fool's errand in Iraq, and on a tax cut that mainly benefitted the rich.

And now Bush has lost that gamble, big time. We hope that Congress will investigate what went wrong here.

The president told us that we needed to fight in Iraq to save lives here at home, and yet -- after moving billions of domestic dollars to the Persian Gulf -- there are bodies floating through the streets of Louisana. What does George W. Bush have to say for himself now?

LA National Guard Wants Equipment to Come Back From Iraq

August 1, 2005, 9:07 PM CDT

JACKSON BARRACKS -- When members of the Louisiana National Guard left for Iraq in October, they took a lot equipment with them. Dozens of high water vehicles, humvees, refuelers and generators are now abroad, and in the event of a major natural disaster that, could be a problem.

"The National Guard needs that equipment back home to support the homeland security mission," said Lt. Colonel Pete Schneider with the LA National Guard.

Col. Schneider says the state has enough equipment to get by, and if Louisiana were to get hit by a major hurricane, the neighboring states of Mississippi, Alabama and Florida have all agreed to help.

"As Governor Bush did for Ivan, after they were hit so many times, he just maxed all of his resources out, he reached out to Louisiana and we sent 200 national guardsmen to help support in recovery efforts," Col. Schneider said.

Members of the Houma-based 256th Infantry will be returning in October, but it could be much longer before the rest of their equipment comes home.

"You've got combatant commanders over there who need it they say they need it, they don't want to lose what they have, and we certainly understand that it's a matter it's a matter of us educating that combatant commander, we need it back here as well," Col. Schneider said.

And even if commanders in Iraq release the equipment, getting it home takes months.

"It's just the process of identifying which equipment we're bringing home, bringing it down to Kuwait, loading it on ships or aircraft however we're gonna get it back here and then either railing it in or trucking it in, so we're talking a significant amount of time before that equipment is back home," Schneider said.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:16 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah i was just trolling man theres no bias against the rural south in our national news media

3, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:19 (eighteen years ago) link

growing up in south carolina i was always clear that new york media outlets treated my state with the utmost respect and dignity

3, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Houston's a lot more sophisticated than New Orleans. one of the singing Senators is from Vermont. and Trent Lott isn't exactly the Christian right's poster boy.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:20 (eighteen years ago) link

My 2 cents on that levee article: It wasn't the cost of the war, but the lost revenue from tax cuts.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:21 (eighteen years ago) link

'which bushco approval rating spike resulted in my family's homelessness?'

3, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:23 (eighteen years ago) link

frank, i'd say it's both. what revenue that would remain after the tax cuts (which came before the war, of course) is now gone because of the cost of the war, which is why the war itself (along with a lot of other government functions) is being run on deficit spending.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Lots of breaking news from nola.com here, better than the separate blog for immediate info, though that has provided a full rundown of emergency contact info.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:27 (eighteen years ago) link

Louisiana pleas for continued federal funding


As they try to assess the damage from Hurricane Katrina, Louisiana officials pleaded with the White House Tuesday to waive federal rules that would push a portion of the cleanup and recovery costs onto the state.

Calling the destruction “well beyond anything that has happened in our history,” the state’s congressional delegation asked President Bush to authorize the federal government to pick up all of the post-disaster bill.

Normally, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) pays 75 percent of the costs of debris removal and rescue efforts while state and local governments pay the rest. Frequently, FEMA will pay the whole tab for the first 72 hours.

The delegation asked that FEMA pick up 100 of the costs even beyond that, as was done in Florida last year after a series of hurricanes.

The request came as water continued to breach a major levee in New Orleans, pushing flood waters ever higher and prompting Gov. Kathleen Blanco to order an evacuation. New Orleans’ water pumping system has collapsed and much of the southeastern part of the city is under water.

“Louisiana sits at a perilous crossroads,” the nine-member delegation wrote. “This incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the state. Without your direct intervention, we will not receive this much-needed assistance.”

There was no immediate response on the request from the Office of Management and Budget.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:30 (eighteen years ago) link

blah blah yankee strawman blah blah left wing media conspiracy blah blah

ian quiche-lorraine (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:32 (eighteen years ago) link

If she REALLY wanted to pile on she should have said something like, 'pay 100%, please, like you did for Jeb Bush, your brother, and his state!'

The Original Jimmy Mod: Kind Warrior (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Alabama story:

"We've been very fortunate that the loss of life in Alabama has been very, very minimal," said Jim Walker, the state's homeland security director.

Nevertheless, Walker characterized damage in the state as "extensive."

"We do have water in the streets, still, in Mobile. We have coastal roads that have been closed," he said. "We've got roads that are out. We've got a bridge that's out."

That bridge is the Cochrane-Africatown USA Bridge on U.S. 98 in Mobile, which is the detour route used for transporting hazardous materials not allowed in downtown tunnels on Interstate 10.

The bridge was closed Monday when an oil rig broke loose in the storm and jammed under it. Officials fear it could have damaged the structure. (Full story)

The closure will force trucks carrying hazardous materials to make a 70-mile detour, said Tony Harris, a spokesman for the Alabama Department of Transportation.

The Bankhead tunnel, which takes U.S. 98 under the Mobile River, also was closed by water covering its entrances, Harris said.

The Interstate 10 tunnels in downtown Mobile were open, but only one lane in each direction was available because of pumping operations to keep the tunnels dry, according to the Alabama DOT. Pavement in the tunnels was wet, but there was no standing water.

I-10 was passable through Alabama, but only to the Mississippi state line, Harris said.

Aerial footage of Dauphin Island off the coast showed flooding, but most of the structures appeared to be mostly intact.

In the coastal town of Bayou La Batre a number of boats swept up by the storm were pushed deposited inland in wooded areas.

In a demonstration of Katrina's reach, more than 182,000 of the customers without power Tuesday were in the Birmingham area and another 132,000 were in and around Tuscaloosa, both more than 150 miles inland.

Alabama Power spokesman Bernie Fogarty warned customers they would be in for a "prolonged outage."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:33 (eighteen years ago) link

nothing in that article but apparently a good number of buildings in baldwin county on the east side of the bay south of i-10 got smoked.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:38 (eighteen years ago) link

>yeah i was just trolling man theres no bias against the rural south in our national news media<

Of course, because no one in the North cared about Hurricane Hugo and it go no coverage whatsoever. And the only reason this storm (apart from the fact that it may be the most deadly since Galveston at the turn of the 20th century, of course) is getting interest is because its in a tourist location. Uh huh. Riiiight.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:40 (eighteen years ago) link

no one up here cared about hurricane andrew either. it's not like many of us have ELDERLY RELATIVES IN FLORIDA or anything.

ian quiche-lorraine (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:44 (eighteen years ago) link

haha miami = the rural south now???

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:45 (eighteen years ago) link

all red states = rural south.

The Original Jimmy Mod: Kind Warrior (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:45 (eighteen years ago) link

(i know, florida =! the south cuz there are too many jews)

ian quiche-lorraine (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:46 (eighteen years ago) link

orange beach and gulf shores sure as hell ain't "rural."

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Er, anyway. President of Tulane has sent out this:

Tulane University


Current Status

August 30, 11:45 a.m.

Dear Tulane Faculty, Staff, Students and Friends:

As you all know by now, New Orleans and the surrounding parishes were severely damaged by Hurricane Katrina. The physical damage to the area, including Tulanes campuses, was extensive.

Unfortunately, conditions in the city continue to deteriorate, making it virtually impossible to begin recovery efforts. On a very positive note, in Tulanes case, we are very thankful that all of our people are safe, including all the students and staff who evacuated to Jackson, Mississippi.

We have started the process of assessing the condition of our campus facilities and determining how long it will take us to reopen. This assessment process will take days because many of the answers will be determined by how quickly the city and its services become operational. The situation is further complicated by the fact that! there is no power in the city, water levels continue to rise, all city roads are blocked, and the vast majority of our workforce had to leave the parish as part of the mandatory evacuation order. It is unclear at this time when people will be allowed to return to the city.

Given the uncertainties, we cannot determine at this time when employees and students should return to campus. We will do the best we can to keep you appraised of our situation and progress.

Also, I want to remind you that the universitys main website is not operating at this time and we do not know when we will be able to bring it back on-line. Due to this, the Tulane email system is not functioning. However, this website (emergency.tulane.edu ) will continue to have the most up-to-date information about university operations and the Tulane Alert Line at 1-877-862-8080 and 1-504-862-8080 will also have! the most current information available. These communication vehicles are the best source of information about Tulane since phone and cell service are unreliable.

I realize that you have many more questions than we have answers at this time. However, Im sure you understand the complexity and difficulty of the situation we face. Nonetheless, we are determined to move forward as quickly as possible and make Tulane University an even stronger and healthier institution. We have been in New Orleans for 171 years and we look forward to another century in this great city.


Scott S. Cowen

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:47 (eighteen years ago) link

and my grandma doesn't live anywhere near miami, so wtf do you know.

ian quiche-lorraine (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:47 (eighteen years ago) link

but you guys are right, all those 'those people deserved to die - their state's electoral votes went to bush' post-hurricane comments definitely come from southerners. yep.

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:47 (eighteen years ago) link

that jandek show is definitely not happening.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:48 (eighteen years ago) link

blount, where on this thread did ANYONE say that?

ian quiche-lorraine (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:48 (eighteen years ago) link

but you guys are right, all those 'those people deserved to die - their state's electoral votes went to bush' post-hurricane comments definitely come from southerners. yep

pat robertson and jerry falwell are southerners who said 9/11 was god's retribution for america's sin.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:49 (eighteen years ago) link

From a blog comment:

First footage of Slidell and Eden outside of New Orleans is coming in on WWL.

Eden by a miracle has been spared with only a rapidly receding 4 foot flood. Slidell... well, some of the footage looks Tsunami level. 20 foot surge from the lake quoted. The centre looks sort of intact if heavily flooded, but the lake fringe - about two blocks deep ... there doesn't seem to be anything left at all. Just debris. I pray enough evacuated.

"Been hit and been hit hard." - Slidell Police Chief. "Water lines torn loose... no communications, isolated from outside world... just local communications... concerned people with famalies may try to come back... can't supply basic needs of life. Many, many days until electricity restored... Need to get the message out that the emergency care workers have had no fatalities or injuries, to reassure the famalies." --- (Paraphrased) "As to city fatalities, we don't know. But seemingly no major fatalaties as of yet."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Thanks, Frank.(Ned: still a nice rack, and great thread to boot.) Still catching up with friends and relatives on Coast, (Esp. Baldwin County area Stence just mentioned.) (NBC News on now: "70 dead [more than that to be confirmed, I'm pretty sure]; 5,000,000 without power [in Jackson MS, 170 miles inland, for inst.]; didn't catch how many homeless, either 10,000 or 100,000, either seems plausible at this point.) NPR interviewing people on st. in N.O.:" if a gas station is open, there's nothing to buy but beer and wine." A woman cries, while confessing "I took some food for my family. I never, ever thought I'd come to this." Hurricane season has gone so far against odds last few years, really does seem like global warming's generally-agreed on acceleration will mandate some kind of radical population shift away from coasts, all over the world, not just on the Gulf (though that's the best place to start). Not that it won't get cocked up at best, esp. if Bush and his backers have to overtly concede existance of global warming, but....

don, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:51 (eighteen years ago) link

While I don't remember any offhand except for Floyd, haven't there been an inordinate amount of hurricanes that have hit New England in the past, too? (all the more reason to feel bitter about the idea of some people in the Northeast being smug about this... well, any smugness about this event from anywhere is just sickening, obviously )

donut gon' nut (donut), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:51 (eighteen years ago) link

haha yes limit it to 'um, just on this thread', since when was trife referring to a specific post on this thread (especially since anyone on this board wanting to crack those jokes has what - four? five? - other threads devoted specifically to that purpose).


xpost right stence but you and jody don't jump up to blast anyone who suggests pat robertson and jerry falwell might be assholes.

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Hey, Mr. President! While hundreds are feared dead and one of the largest cities in America rests underwater, how did you spend your Tuesday?

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.capm10208301856.bush__capm102.jpg

I attribute this more to stupidity than apathy, for what it's worth.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:52 (eighteen years ago) link

all the more reason to feel bitter about the idea of some people in the Northeast being smug about this

i'll admit that i feel lucky to be in a city where "acts of god" like this are rare if not nonexistent, but we're still a big-league target for terrorism obv.

ian quiche-lorraine (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:54 (eighteen years ago) link

>orange beach and gulf shores sure as hell ain't "rural."<

What part of the Southern Shoreboard is "rural"? This is a stupid fucking argument. You can't go across any section of shoreline in the US without bumping into a city or vacation destination.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Thanks Don. About to go home -- friend's back in town from a year overseas and he's crashing with me for a few days so I'm going to get him settled in and all. Will check in later.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:54 (eighteen years ago) link

because pat robertson and jerry falwell are assholes, blount. and so are you, so far on this thread. i've REPEATEDLY made my disgust known at laugh-at-the-hurricane-victims stuff, so has jody, while all you do is sit around and blame the people who aren't even doing it!

anyway new york is just as susceptible to hurricanes (see: 1820s) so laugh away when it happens here, just don't expect me to not call you an asshole then, too.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:55 (eighteen years ago) link

White people don't loot, by the way. They "find bread".

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Herr W. is flashing a funny interpretation of the G chord there...

The Original Jimmy Mod: Kind Warrior (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Though one last thing for now -- Jesus H. This is a photo of the oil rig that smashed into the Cochrane Bridge in Mobile:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/americas_katrina_hits_us/img/8.jpg

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:59 (eighteen years ago) link

haha yes limit it to 'um, just on this thread', since when was trife referring to a specific post on this thread (especially since anyone on this board wanting to crack those jokes has what - four? five? - other threads devoted specifically to that purpose).

look. just please stop it with your "northerners drive like this" shtick. your attitude is exactly as smug as the attitude you're criticizing.

we have red states, you have blue states, we have centers of conservatism and fundamentalist religion, you have "liberal" tourist meccas. we even have uneducated poor people and some of them aren't even white!!

ian quiche-lorraine (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 22:00 (eighteen years ago) link


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