Kenya stakes its reinvention on referendum
The new constitution hems in Kenya’s imperial-style presidency, devolves more power to local government, paves the way for land reform and gives Kenyans a bill of rights. Donor nations, especially the United States, are so eager to see it pass that they have pumped millions of dollars into voter drives and civic education campaigns.The United States Embassy in Nairobi has been sharply criticized by several Republican members of Congress for taking sides and accused of breaking federal rules. The Republicans say the new Kenyan constitution would make it easier for women to get an abortion (a claim that constitutional scholars dispute) and that the embassy, by giving grants to Kenyan groups that openly support the constitution, has violated federal provisions prohibiting American diplomats from lobbying for or against abortion.Johnnie Carson, the assistant secretary of state for African affairs, said Tuesday that “a very small percentage” of the civic education grants had gone to groups advocating for a “yes” vote but that this was “an accident and error.”“We support a process, not an outcome,” he said, though recent statements from American officials have left little mystery as to which side the United States is on. At the same time, several American Christian groups have been working closely with Kenyan allies to mobilize people to defeat the constitution.
Ugh, I can understand the concern about choosing sides, but mobilizing to defeat the referendum because of…abortion? Ugh
― "goof proof cooking, I love it!" (Z S), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 18:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Ugh, sorry for weird formatting (iPhone), ugh
― "goof proof cooking, I love it!" (Z S), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 18:40 (thirteen years ago) link
this is what happens when you let zombies run bureaucratic processes
― Mayor Hickenlooper and the liberal agenda (HI DERE), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link
yup, k-lo is not happy. well, k-lo doesn't have an original thought in her head, the catholic hierarchy doesn't like it.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/242352/constituting-culture-death-tomorrows-vote-kenya-kathryn-jean-lopez
― goole, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 18:43 (thirteen years ago) link
every single answer to those questions is nauseating. like a master class in tendentiousness and bad faith
― goole, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 18:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Q: Why should a busy American care about the Kenyan constitution?A: Because the Obama administration cares so much about it.
you have to remember, KLo is a moron
― Mayor Hickenlooper and the liberal agenda (HI DERE), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 18:45 (thirteen years ago) link
how many politics threads do we have now
is this the current one? cuz I'm still pissed I couldn't read the other one on the plane cuz I was sitting next to a nice old lady
― pies. (gbx), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 18:45 (thirteen years ago) link
Q: There is a lot of confusion about abortion and this constitution. Does it legalize abortion or not?A: Quite clearly, it does. The problem with the final draft of the constitution is that, while it has an explicit clause that protects the right to life from conception, it provides for exceptions in the event that the health of the mother is in danger or where permitted by any other written law. In every place where a broad exception for the health of the mother has been allowed, abortion on demand has resulted.
xp k-lo isn't giving the answers here! sadly there are other morons at work in the world.
― goole, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 18:46 (thirteen years ago) link
xpha, yeah this is the one. goole and I fought a duel
― elephant rob, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 18:47 (thirteen years ago) link
In every place where a broad exception for the health of the mother has been allowed, abortion on demand has resulted.
hmmmmmmm wonder why THAT could be
― pies. (gbx), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 18:54 (thirteen years ago) link
Because Satan is confusing people into making horrible personal decisions!
― "goof proof cooking, I love it!" (Z S), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 19:03 (thirteen years ago) link
I was actually kind of serious, though this may have been discussed on other threads. What is the general perception of people like FDR or LBJ amongst the kind of people who consider Obama a socialist?
― Sundar, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:33 (thirteen years ago) link
Commies. They're all commies. Except for Nixon, who the commies hated.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link
FDR was considered a socialist by a considerable portion of the population. If you think FOX News is toxic, you should hear radio shows from the mid thirties. He was loathed.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Ned OTM
― better check that sausage before you put it in the waffle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
republicans anti-FDR but he rarely comes up, LBJ never comes up. american politics before carter doesn't get a lot of attention in our political dialogue.
― iatee, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
you should hear radio shows from the mid thirties
Link please? I'd love to hear some oldschool mudslinging, if only to explore the idea that things might not really be all that different in the field of political fearmongering.
― Beach Pomade (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Actually, this is one of my favorite FDR clips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIqe4aeublo&feature=player_embedded
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Startlingly contemporary.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:40 (thirteen years ago) link
Glenn Beck, the few times I've seen him, cultivates an aura of historical evidencey-ness, so he most decidedly does go after people like FDR and LBJ. The last time I caught him he was spinning an elaborate conspiracy web linking Valerie Jarret to Woodrow Wilson (who is evil fyi). I imagine some of that sensibility trickles down and FDR is considered a fascist.
― elephant rob, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:40 (thirteen years ago) link
they were also socialist! but it's really really hard to tell if the current right-wing frame of mind admits to any kind of degrees or continuums or modes of socialism...
honestly a better way to think of it is that there is a core of good people or a good "way of life" ("the real america") that has been beset at all times by enemies through history. all of these enemies have of course been working in concert, because being against the RA is their purpose. the nazis, the communists, foreign empires, the UN, the third world, the muslims, it hardly matters...
many xps
― goole, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:41 (thirteen years ago) link
I do loathe Wilson though.
Reagan specifically campaigned on ending The Great Society.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:41 (thirteen years ago) link
LBJ never comes up
don't think this is strictly true but could be a result of him being loathed by BOTH sides - on the right for civil rights/expanding the "welfare state", and on the left for Vietnam
― better check that sausage before you put it in the waffle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:42 (thirteen years ago) link
xpyeah, the scary thing about his anti-Wilson ranting was that much of it was on point, it was the rest of the chalkboard that was deranged.
― elephant rob, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link
hmm. I saw that months ago, so let me amend that to "some of it was on point."
― elephant rob, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:44 (thirteen years ago) link
I see. That was helpful, thanks.
― Sundar, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:52 (thirteen years ago) link
(I was actually kind of under the impression that there was some positive consensus around FDR. Not entirely sure why now.)
― Sundar, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:55 (thirteen years ago) link
he was a nazi who fought nazis. strange, i know
― goole, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:56 (thirteen years ago) link
This terrible book got a lot of traction in 2008 before the election. She's tickled by the discovery that most of FDR's answers for ending the Depression failed! It's like she hasn't written a new book in fifty years.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:58 (thirteen years ago) link
xpI think there used to be; ten years ago I think you'd be fringey to go after him.
not only a Nazi but he appeased Stalin!
― elephant rob, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:58 (thirteen years ago) link
amity shlaes is a nutcase
― goole, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 20:59 (thirteen years ago) link
*written = read
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 21:00 (thirteen years ago) link
Great critique.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 21:03 (thirteen years ago) link
i have also read somewhere that shlaes has merely an undergrad degree in english. i like to think i understand econ to some degree, but come on
― goole, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 21:06 (thirteen years ago) link
her name looks like it lost several vowels and consonants.
Shlaes graduated from Yale University magna cum laude[1] with a bachelor’s degree in English in 1982.[2]
Shlaes writes a syndicated column for Bloomberg News.[3] She is a senior fellow in economic history at the Council on Foreign Relations. Her many appearances on television and radio include commentary on public radio for Marketplace.
She wrote columns for the Financial Times for five years, until September, 2005, for which she won the International Policy Network's Bastiat Prize for Journalism in 2002.[4] Earlier, she worked at the Wall Street Journal, where she was a member of the editorial board. She has written for The New Yorker, The American Spectator, Commentary Magazine, Foreign Affairs, Forbes, National Review, and The New Republic, among others. Her obituary of Milton Friedman appeared in The New York Sun.[5]
She was awarded the 2007 Deadline Club award for Opinion writing,[6] and the Newswomen's Club of New York's Front Page Award for her Bloomberg columns.[7]
Miss Shlaes teaches an MBA course titled the Economics of the Great Depression at NYU/Stern School of Business.[8] She is the 2009 winner of the Hayek Prize awarded by the Manhattan Institute.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 21:13 (thirteen years ago) link
This is pretty famous:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9yoZHs6PsU
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
thanks for the FDR clips alfred
first one: 515 views, posted october 2009
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
Just curious - if a senator (or senators) wanted to sit on the other side of the aisle, could they do it? Why doesn't anyone ever try it? Wouldn't it be a nice symbolic bipartisan gesture?
I should run for senate…"vote z s, he'll literally sit on the other side of the aisle"
― "goof proof cooking, I love it!" (Z S), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
interesting, but this is not a great idea in practice imo
One Progressive's Nat'l Scheme To Burn Confederate Flags At Tea Party Rallies
― my stomach is full of anger. and pie. (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link
AAAARGH I did post that for the amusing URL earlier and nobody bit.
― stoic newington (suzy), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 21:58 (thirteen years ago) link
ACLU intervening in the Awlaki case we were discussing earlier: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/08/03/awlaki
― elephant rob, Tuesday, August 3, 2010 12:57 PM (5 hours ago)
aclu are heroes. on point article from greenwald too
― terry squad (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 22:08 (thirteen years ago) link
IMPORTANT
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/reliable-source/2010/08/bristol_levi_breakup.html?hpid=artslot
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 22:18 (thirteen years ago) link
Someone lock Sullivan back in his Levi-proof soundbooth!
― carson dial, Tuesday, 3 August 2010 22:18 (thirteen years ago) link
man FDR bringin the "I welcome their hatred"
fucking awesome
― gross rainbow of haerosmith (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 22:19 (thirteen years ago) link
love how Levi's knocked up some other bimbo
― better check that sausage before you put it in the waffle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 22:19 (thirteen years ago) link
worked so well the first time!
― better check that sausage before you put it in the waffle (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost love the excitement in FDR's voice; he really gets off on the hate.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link
burning confederate flags seems like a terrible idea
― j0rdan sgt's tartan shorts club ban (crüt), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 22:23 (thirteen years ago) link
I mean as a political statement at a tea party rally. not in general.
aerosmith, the Dems are about to get repudiated for their actions, so it looks like you win!
no -- it looks like the Democrats win! they spent two years telling everybody who'd had any expectations whatsoever that they were naive assholes, selfish narcissistic children whose political passions weren't to be taken seriously under any circumstances. they made a concerted effort to alienate the very people whose donations and votes had put them into office; they made it clear that the left were useful for electoral purposes but were otherwise expendable. they got what they wanted: two years in the house & senate; they weren't interested in more than that. the votes they're losing would have been child's play to hold onto; they didn't gain any votes by writing off those of people who care about torture of prisoners & the right to privacy. this class of democrats wasn't going to do anything on behalf of the people whose lack of support they bemoan; they view that support as theirs by right of being not-as-evil. they should all go home to wherever in the hopes that the Democrats who replace them have something like an ethical center.
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 00:41 (thirteen years ago) link
reid's a senator, jordy
"speaker-fucking" seems like it should be an urbandictionaryism by now, though
― wakafledia (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 00:42 (thirteen years ago) link
but like on the other hand that's just my opinion
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 00:42 (thirteen years ago) link
That's so crude! Mormons prefer to refer to it as "estrous."
xxxp
― 17th Century Catholic Spain (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 00:42 (thirteen years ago) link
they view that support as theirs by right of being not-as-evil. they should all go home to wherever in the hopes that the Democrats who replace them have something like an ethical center.
no such democrats -- or non-democrat progressives -- will fill that void. it will instead be filled by the GOP.
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 2 November 2010 00:45 (thirteen years ago) link
in the short term, at least. and i haven't heard much of a case that things will be different in the future, tho i hope i'm wrong.
yeah i know, a horribly formed "joke"
― crocodile swag district - teach me how to dundee (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 00:46 (thirteen years ago) link
How are they any different from the "Blue Dogs" that Emmanuel recruited in '06 and '08?
xpost
― sandra lee, gimme your alcohol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 00:46 (thirteen years ago) link
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, November 2, 2010 12:45 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
in the short term is correct - if one reelects them, one can be 100% assured that things will not get any better. I mean this is simple behavioral reinforcement: you can't reward behavior and expect it to change.
― guess I'll just sing dream on again (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 00:50 (thirteen years ago) link
daniel can you just appreciate that some people expect certain policies in return for their votes? politicians are smart about this shit - they'll position themselves as close to their opponent's left side as possible where they know they can count on getting a majority of the votes from the left and try to pick up some in the middle too. for some people that won't cut it - if you want my vote you have to actually fairly represent what i believe. it's just this game where the pol'll slide further & further right and be like "lol asshole, you're still voting for me tho right?" at a certain point it becomes - no, fuck you
― wakafledia (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 00:54 (thirteen years ago) link
It's delicious and totally appropriate that my representative, a GOP warmonger who's been in office since Claude Pepper died, has run to the left of every one of her opponents.
― sandra lee, gimme your alcohol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 00:56 (thirteen years ago) link
daniel can you just appreciate that some people expect certain policies in return for their votes?
yes, i can and do appreciate that.
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:05 (thirteen years ago) link
I read this reasonable post with much pain, but really, how is a vote anything but an endorsement of their actions?
votes have been so close and contested recently, but still we're stuck conflating the vote with a popular mandate. bush used the term himself the week he won in 2004; obama did as much in the way he poured so much abstract idealism into his campaign & speeches. but it's always total fiction; obama did not win as much as mccain lost, and everyone who cast that vote with uneasiness have had their fears played like a violin in the two years since.
your moral abstention is not going to make the pitiful remnants of this party find the strength to fight harder. there's no way to make yourself heard through silence when everyone else is yelling -- abstention is basically just leaving your friends behind to fight. also, voting is probably not going to kill you
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:18 (thirteen years ago) link
obama did not win as much as mccain lost,
for the record:
http://blog.4president.us/2008/2008ec.gif
― sandra lee, gimme your alcohol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:22 (thirteen years ago) link
so nuts to that.
just noticed that mccain carved a boner going up the country
― crocodile swag district - teach me how to dundee (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:23 (thirteen years ago) link
dunno if i can trust 4president.us to give me accurate info
― markers, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:24 (thirteen years ago) link
obama did not win as much as mccain lost
Maybe and maybe not, but if that's true it's doubly so in the House, where many Dem seats were won by narrow margins in strongly Republican districts, and many of those Congressmen couldn't reasonably have been expected to hang on to those seats for long no matter what else happened.
― kenan, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:26 (thirteen years ago) link
OK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ElectoralCollege2008.svg
Politicians claim "mandates" all the time. The difference with Obama's victory is that he could legitimately claim one: the biggest Dem winner since LBJ.
― sandra lee, gimme your alcohol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:26 (thirteen years ago) link
voting is probably not going to kill you
Thanks for the opening, Milton. An Election Eve message from the dead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:29 (thirteen years ago) link
<3
― kenan, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:32 (thirteen years ago) link
"I'm sure that once the election is over, your country will improve immediately."
I can't be quite as curmudgeonly as George, but I wouldn't want to get caught trying to debate him on those points.
― kenan, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:38 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't think 08 can be described as "obama did not win as much as mccain lost" -- whoever grabbed the dem nomination had it basically in the bag. forgive me milton but this sounds like the kind of thing victor davis hanson and michael barone tell themselves.
anyway, i appreciate principled non-voting, i really do. but i don't do it. i just don't think principled voting occurs. like, when i pull the lever, it's not a stamp of blanket moral approval of everything that the powerful do for the remainder of their term. it's hardly a statment at all, just rather weak indication of preference: i'd rather this person hold that seat rather than some other person likely to get a majority. i understand that i am to feel implicated in this, somehow, morally, but i don't feel this way at all. i pulled the lever, and whatever they do next is on them.
i'll put it blutly: i know exactly to what degree this 'regime' has been bunglers or blunderers or cowards or miscalculators or over-calculators or just outright killers, i read the papers. but i'm going to get up tomorrow morning and vote for everyone i can find with a D next to their name, without regret, or a second look back, as i probably will do for the rest of my life.
i'm sure this is probably just as an infuriating decision to some as people advocating quietism or dropping out. i don't begrudge anyone their decision to do or not do anything politically. except vote for haley barbour, that guy looks like boss hogg and sounds like it too, come on.
― goole, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:39 (thirteen years ago) link
/ I admit to overstating my case; the ratio was huge and the enthusiasm for obama was not an illusion
still, we owe many of the undecided votes simply to a pragmatic unwillingness to vote for mccain, and it's those people who have been targeted by the Tea Party. they'll be voting from the heart this time; it's our turn to be pragmatic.
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:45 (thirteen years ago) link
Fuck the heart, seriously.
― kenan, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:45 (thirteen years ago) link
btw u guys are missin a helluva ballgame
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:47 (thirteen years ago) link
they'll be voting from the heart this time; it's our turn to be pragmatic.
This means nothing. "The heart"? It's more like -- no, EXACTLY like -- the "gut" that Colbert talks about. Call me elitist, but Tea Partiers don't understand a thing about what they're voting for.
― kenan, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:48 (thirteen years ago) link
hm. 3 -- 0 giants in 7th.
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:48 (thirteen years ago) link
Morbs otm again. There's little point in this particular conversation.
― kenan, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 01:49 (thirteen years ago) link
For those of you not voting for Democrats, do you live in states with ballot measures? and are you voting for them? Just curious. Ballot measures and candidates have always seemed like totally separate things to me, yet they are conflated together as "voting".
e.g. the marijuana initiatives in California and Oregon.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 02:56 (thirteen years ago) link
I've got eight amendments to our state constitution on which we're voting.
― sandra lee, gimme your alcohol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 02:57 (thirteen years ago) link
My district is a safe socially liberal Republican seat.
― sandra lee, gimme your alcohol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 02:58 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFSIcI0wmGw
― No Good, Scrunty-Looking, Narf Herder (Gukbe), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 03:48 (thirteen years ago) link
for the record
For the record, Mo. went for McCain.
― (Pleasant Plains), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 03:56 (thirteen years ago) link
Tried to open all messages to read stuff from two hours ago and it practically crashed my browser (and, yes, I'm on a lame internet connection)
NEW THREAD, PLEASE
― Cunga, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 03:59 (thirteen years ago) link
US POLITICS election/post-election edition: your country will improve immediately.
― pons (crüt), Tuesday, 2 November 2010 04:08 (thirteen years ago) link